Joachim Trier on his career as a director and his new film Sentimental Value | BFI in conversation

So over the over the course of the next hour or so, we're going to discuss all your feature work, but I want to start with the 2018 documentary uh the other monk that you directed with your brother

Emil. Yeah.

Emil. Yeah.

>> Um it follows the novelist Carla Onazgad um around Norway over the six months leading up to the exhibition that he was presenting of the late works of the

artists. And there's a moment in that

artists. And there's a moment in that film that you say he shows us what it's like to remember, which is one of the greatest things to achieve in film.

And all of your films deal in some way with memory much more than many other filmmakers that I can think of.

>> I'm just curious at what point in time, if you can remember, did did this this fascination with memory start to play on you?

>> It started when I was very young. Can

you all hear me? Is it okay? Yeah. Thank

you. Um, I think it start, it's actually true. It started when I was uh in

true. It started when I was uh in kindergarten. I was probably like four

kindergarten. I was probably like four years old or something. I remember

sitting on a bike like a three-wheeler, you know, like a little play bike and thinking I will I've decided I will remember this for the rest of my life. And I think

it's very natural. I have kids that age myself and I think it's something we all do more or less consciously that the moment we start experiencing autonomy as individuals the moment we start

understanding that we are alone in the world as an individual we also start creating a sense of narrative about who we are that that the idea of identity

really is it plays into this idea of memory because we are kind of all individual recording units and we understand what subjectivity is and I

think um it sounds terribly maybe pretentious or academic so forgive me but I I think actually as a kid I was very concerned with that I was curious what is that thing that memory and I

still remember that moment I decided to and in a strange way years later I realized that's kind of what a camera does you know it it records something and I can see Nielson Lee who's a dear

friend of mine and an actor and I see he gets older in the films we make he's still quite young and beautiful but you know what I It's, you know, >> and we hate him for it.

>> But, but that's the thing I So, I think memory and being obsessed with film and being very interested in what this idea of identity is, all of that is tied together for me.

>> So, it's kind of hard to untangle it sometimes means. It's it it's

sometimes means. It's it it's fascinating how you present memory because you say that that the camera records memories, but in the same way that someone doesn't

necessarily misremember something, but remembers it a different way to you. The

same event, the same thing's happening, but it's presented differently. Likewise

with a camera, you choose to point a camera in a certain position at something specific that someone would point elsewhere. And this is definitely

point elsewhere. And this is definitely a recurring theme in your work. This

idea that we'll be presented with a memory, but that memory isn't necessarily reality. Your reality is far

necessarily reality. Your reality is far removed from the emotional truth of the characters.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Again, the idea of subjectivity and and trying to inquire into how does um consciousness work? That sounds a bit trippy, but but I mean it literally like

I know I've done sequences that I've written with my my dear friend Escil F who I always write with where we're like how can we get into the head of the characters. Sometimes you can do it

characters. Sometimes you can do it through montages, stream of consciousness stuff or playing around with that or you can try to convey it

through just observation of people and trying to get to that limit of understanding but also realizing that we don't quite understand each other and that's when interpretation comes into

play. So that's also interesting but but

play. So that's also interesting but but that subjectivity thing is interesting.

I mean, to be honest with you, I think um very simply anyone who's who's picked up a camera and wanted to kind of tell a story or show a human experience

encounters the fact that filming someone turns them into an object immediately.

They become something in that image that moves around. And therefore I find it

moves around. And therefore I find it virtuous and interesting in movies to get into the biggest absence in the picture which is what's not shown what

is going on inside that human being.

What is the emotion of that human being?

So so I think that's something that triggers me. I'm I'm curious about that.

triggers me. I'm I'm curious about that.

>> So we're going to see some examples uh this evening of of how you achieve that.

But again this this fascination with memory this earliest memory you have of remembering At what point did that translate into this idea that a camera

can do a similar thing and you would like to use a camera?

>> I think it happened very early. I was

fortunate because I I grew up in a family where my grandfather was a filmmaker uh and he he didn't really get to do so many films. So I think there

was a sense of grief around him that he was kind of this failed genius in a way and my mother was affected by that in

many ways. Um, it was her father.

many ways. Um, it was her father.

My mother met my father because my father was doing sound for my grandfather. And my grandfather said to

grandfather. And my grandfather said to my my mom, his daughter, that Danish sound guy, be careful with him. And then

a year later, I was born. They were very young and and they were into movies and they my I remember playing with my dad

and he showed me um how to shoot on Super 8 and uh some years later when video cameras arrived and they were very exclusive. It was

nothing that people owned yet. You know

that he would borrow something from a production company and take it home for a weekend and we would try to use it.

And at the same time I also had a record like like um tape recorder sound and I would I would record stuff in my life and show it to someone. So again this

idea of documenting and trying to get attention through that was was interesting I thought.

>> Um your mother was also uh at some point involved as a script supervisor and assistant editor in film. So being

>> and a director as well. She also

directed. Yeah. Um and just to say that your your grandfather um Eric Logan made a film in 1972 um called Remonstance Remenstrance sorry which is an

experimental film made comprised of six realels that you can play in any specific order.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He was very affected by being captured during the war and being in the resistance and became um very politically engaged uh as a

socialist uh kind of a social democratic socialist after the war.

and he felt that the news media was giving us narratives that at times were untrue or or p you know one-sided and he

he wanted the art to be an open place for interpretation. So he thought in kind of left-wing spirit that he would make a film with five reels and

that every projectionist or any audience member could come in and demand a new order of those reels and they would create a unique movie to engage with an audience and I I still find that rather

sympathetic and sweet and I have tried now it it exists at least in Norway on on DVD so you can like choose the order and it's very clear that there's one order that works better than all the

others but it's still a sweet idea that someone should pick up again. I think

>> uh let's move on to Ashkiel, your co-screenwriter, who you've been working with since your early shorts.

>> Um how did you first encounter each other?

>> We were uh working uh in um a Norwegian game show. I think you have something

game show. I think you have something similar uh in the UK called All or Nothing where you could go and you could say I want to talk about Walt Disney or Greek mythology and they would raise the

amount and you could take the money out, leave or go to the next difficult question. So that was live TV on a

question. So that was live TV on a Saturday night just to make some money.

We were cable dashers. We were behind the camera. And uh one day I met Escoll

the camera. And uh one day I met Escoll there and there was kind of a pecking order over lunch that we would eat together and the camera people would eat together. And um I looked at him with

together. And um I looked at him with his Doc Martins and his long wavy golden hair and leather jacket and I thought he was a bit I don't know studentish and I

was kind of into skateboard and punk and you know I didn't know if we would really become friends but it turned out he was a film geek like me and he loved

American indies and we discussed uh you know Hal Hartley movies and Godar and Bunwell and suddenly we were we were kind of best friends and then when I was a A couple years later, this was we were

kind of 18, I think. And then a couple of years later, I I saved up uh money to make my first short on 16 to try to get into film school. And he came along and helped and and that's kind of where our

collaboration began.

>> And has your process changed over the years or do you still work in in a similar way?

>> No, it's it's changed quite a bit and I mean we now we write together. uh he's

not on set necessarily, but he's I still carry that spirit of that collaboration as being very important and and always an essential starting point for every film and he also comes in towards the

latter half of editing and and gives me good pointers about everything I [ __ ] up and how to get it back back in shape.

So that's good. Um, so he went off to study in Paris, film in Paris, and you first of all attended the European Film College in Denmark, but then came for National Film and Television School in

Beaconsville just up the road. Um, and

you continued that partnership there.

Um, I know you had a really great time at the NFTs.

>> Yes, looking back, I certainly did, and those were very important years in my life, but it was also a battle. I mean

it wasn't an easy school you know I came with all my love for Tarovski and Antoni movies and and the the national social realist and TV school like we like to

call it uh was very uh interested in in Ken Loach movies you know that I realized when I saw Kess that I also love by the way I I adore Ken Loach so I don't want to say anything negative

about that genius and and also an important social voice so but at the time I was more formally oriented But I think they got me to understand

that character stories and human stories and and to encounter this experience of working with a lot of actors completely changed me and shaped me as a director.

So looking back it was a wonderful time but I another thing was I I felt like writing my own stuff with Eskill and um they were were supposed to write with the writing students and but they

allowed us actually to do that. So we

made some short films. Uh but I also have to say on that note that um being in this room is a kind of a beautiful thing because this is where we had our graduation screenings. And so this is

graduation screenings. And so this is the kind of the room where I sat and uh and looked at you know the the my my final short film and and was super

nervous and and I had no idea I would be sitting like this in front of you all even having made one feature film. I

wasn't sure at all that how this would all pan out. So I'm very very grateful and and I had to add another anecdote because that night one of the big deals of the graduation screening which was

for a film I made called Still which was overly experimental. It had tons of time

overly experimental. It had tons of time layers and um maybe didn't quite work but at least we were trying to do some montage stream of consciousness short

film making and and the the producer on the film who was in school with Anna Wolf who was a very accomplished already producer at the time had started working in the industry and knew that my biggest

wish was to meet Nicholas Rogue. So she

invited him and he accepted. Nicholas

Rogue came to our graduation screening in this room and saw my film and met me afterwards. Um, and he's he's one of my

afterwards. Um, and he's he's one of my all-time heroes. He's he's passed away

all-time heroes. He's he's passed away now, which is terribly sad, but he made some wonderful films. And I remember that our editor who I still work with that also went to the National, Olivia

Boogie Cout, and his editing style has meant a lot for the films that we do.

and him being a big Nicholas Rogue fan was on the other side of the room out in the cafe when I was with Nicholas Rogue and the producers and some other people and Nicholas Rogue was a senior man at the time and we were waving at Olivia to

come over and meet him and Olivia was like he thought he was someone's grandfather so he didn't really bother.

He was talking to someone and later realized that he missed his shot.

>> So that's a running joke with us how we missed Nicholas Rogue at the NFT. Um I'm

going to disagree with you slightly on this when you you talk about Still. Um

PA Still and Proctor. Yeah.

>> Um your three early shorts are actually available to to watch on YouTube.

>> Oh no.

>> Um >> really.

>> And they are remarkably assured.

>> Are they?

>> They really are. They they're quite extraordinary. And I'm gonna come back

extraordinary. And I'm gonna come back to to Still a little later um in relation to to one of the more recent films you've made, but let's jump

forward to 2006 and your feature debut rape comes out. Um how early did you start working with Escalon on the idea behind that?

That was first we uh we I entered film school in 2001 2002 and then we started working on a big uh kind of thriller in

English language uh which had like 15 layers of lies and deceit and all kinds of things. And at

the time um you know like Christopher Nolan we didn't know who he was yet. It

hadn't kind of happened yet. And I

thought for some silly reason that I was going to kind of try to do the big genre experimental time layer kind of movies.

I I and um but then we just couldn't figure that script out at all. And

slowly these personal anecdotes from our kind of longing back to the time we had in Oslo when we were younger and the

type of guys that we knew and and a lot of material from our life started just happening. We started writing that kind

happening. We started writing that kind of as a side project just for fun and that turned into the script for a prize and we realized [ __ ] this is what we should do and it was kind of shameful

but it was the most important thing that happened that we started doing kind of more personal type stories about people we not that it was exactly us but we

realized we were revealing personal themes curiosities longings uh and I think that made for better material. material than all our fancy

material. material than all our fancy ideas.

>> It does feel what's quite wonderful about the film. Um, I remember reading uh an interview with the Comb brothers where they talked about writing ideas on scraps of paper and there was the drawer

this cabinet the the bottom drawer just had all these ideas in and every now and again not when they were stuck but when they just thought need something else they sort of sit through and find some ideas

>> and it your debut feels like all these different ideas pulled together >> but with a remarkable throughine. Um,

how long did it take you to to work out first of all the duration of the plot which kind of spans quite a long period.

>> I I I have a um a feeling maybe that there are filmmakers here. So I'll share how ridiculous our journey was and hope that we can all feel you know it's it's

complicated to make movies and I'm sure many of you feel this also. So we

started with we thought going from short films to features we needed a lot of material. So, we had so much stuff. We

material. So, we had so much stuff. We

had we wrote notes on scenes and concepts and characters and by the end of it, I'm sure we could have had 10 seasons of a TV show, you know, easily.

And then we started making it into a line and we realized by the proportion that the screenplay would be, yeah, 10 seasons of a of a, you know, TV show and

we were trying to do a feature film. So,

we had to rewrite it again and again and it took us several years actually. I

think we worked on and off for maybe four or five years on the script before we got to make it. Um,

and you're absolutely right. It was full of formal ideas like stuff um kind of childishly that I just wanted to show you. I wanted there to be this way

show you. I wanted there to be this way of cutting scene together or this way of shooting a scene or this way of using a voice over or and I I still think that's okay. I still try to keep some of that

okay. I still try to keep some of that in my approach. I never I was never interested in the idea of stories. I

know some people are great at that and it's great if you have like a plot twisted detective thing or something, but if you're doing character work to have moments with characters that are

hopefully an original way of someone breaking up or an original way of falling in love or an original way of doing like finding a filmic version of something that's your own that that's a

shape and almost like an object that you show with character, a piece of film.

That's what we're always writing for.

and repris is blatantly that it's almost only like it's concept scenes one after another.

>> How many people have seen the film?

>> Wow.

>> Okay. So, some of you will be familiar with this. Um so, at the end of your

with this. Um so, at the end of your first short, Peta, uh the main character says, "Sometimes memories are things that could never have happened. Maybe

they belong to someone else." And it struck me that that feeds directly into the opening of Ray Pre where we have

this amazing setup of two young aspiring writers posting their their first novels uh to a publishing house or to an agent.

Um and then we see a fictional history of what happens then to their lives. Um,

can you can you talk about the idea behind that opening because it's outrageous for a debut. It's

extremely confident >> and silly.

>> Um, yeah, but it pulls you in. I'm glad.

No, no, I'm I'm proud about that. I I

mean, I think Rree was very inspired by um more experimental types of novels and cinema.

you know, Alan Rob the new novel, new wave stuff, Alan Rene's movies, all of that kind of the feeling that you have

an infinite possibilities of doing different layerings of time and memories and that the imagined again the mind, the idea of consciousness that you can actually

speak more truthfully about someone through their longing or dreams than just what happens literally to their lives. And and this is something that's

lives. And and this is something that's been an ongoing thing. I um this idea that so much of our life is not really what happens, but it's our dreams or

hopes. What what in a conversation all

hopes. What what in a conversation all the ideas that you have while you're talking to someone and all the all the things you think are going to happen in your life which becomes a part of your identity but maybe they don't ever

happen. You know there's a wonderful

happen. You know there's a wonderful British psych analyst called Adam Phillips who wrote a book called missing out that I discovered just before I wrote um uh worst person in the world

and he speaks about this in very technical terms that that he finds that he's sitting there with patients and so much of their sense of self is their imagined world rather than their lived

world. And I think for anyone creative,

world. And I think for anyone creative, particularly making a film about two young artists who kind of thinks that they're going to be great and then they probably feeling that they're not to

start the film off with a kind of slightly cliched novel vog version of young writers fantasizing about what a great artistic

life's going to be as an overture that kind of in a strange way sets up all the thematics of the whole film. But then

the story as real life in the film turns out is quite different but still on some level still the same which I often think is the case in life that you have this idea of something and maybe you're not

completely off about what's going to happen to you but it's going to happen infinitely different than you imagined.

So that was the idea. It's a it's a film about young people you know so their dreams are relevant. So, I I can't help feeling when I watch this scene of Philip and Eric announcing themselves to

the world of you and our skill.

>> Sure.

>> Hosting it and literally saying this is our film.

>> Absolutely. And we were so ashamed of that that every interview that asked that so who's a who which of you is one of each writer and it's about a friendship of good friends, you know, we

like no no it's not us at all and it's all imagined. But then luckily meeting

all imagined. But then luckily meeting an audience talking to people and realizing that hey they're talking back to us about thematics that we are really

we feel very close to that we revealed ourselves and it was a good thing. So

from that film on we learned that it's okay to take a risk >> and put your heart out there and maybe they'll laugh at you but maybe someone will get it you know and that that

that's actually the the bravery of being creative. The problem of the film

creative. The problem of the film industry is that you get this big machine around you so that everyone thinks you're invincible, but being in the middle of that machine, I I mean,

you know, like a film comes out and there's posters and there's a whole kind of promotion machine around it. It's in

the cinemas, you know, people pay money to see it. So, everyone thinks you're goddamn confident and everything is so sorted out. But the truth of course if

sorted out. But the truth of course if you do something that's personal is that it's it's a vulnerable thing and and you don't quite know how it's all going to end up. So I think we learned a lot from

end up. So I think we learned a lot from that film that that's okay. That's

that's the task. The task is to try to stay personal about what you do even if you do it inside that machine which is so expensive with all those people that you have to

convince to get to do it. as opposite to most of my friends who wrote books or that my creative friends I have other friends too that aren't creative but but those who played in bands or or wrote

books which was cheaper I think one of the reasons so many people are drawn to your films and the reason why your films work so well I

think if they were pfaced and completely serious they may not be so easy to handle but from your early films the the shorts But

through your debut and then every film you've made since, humor, allowing the audience or giving the audience an opportunity to laugh with you and with the the characters, I think is

essential. It's there's one line, a

essential. It's there's one line, a voiceover about a band that plays in the film called Mondo Topless. And we're

told it's the worst use of a Russia film title as a band name ever. And it's just this idea that we're constantly laughing at the characters and sometimes with them at another character. Yeah.

>> And that's some that's been a throughine in all of your work.

>> Yeah. I hope so. I hope so. I think

humor is as truthful as melancholy, you know, it's a coping mechanism to to function. I think to be able to laugh at

function. I think to be able to laugh at stuff and Yeah. And in terms of you saying it, you were telling stories about friends or inspired by friends.

Did you feel that you were making a film about a generation in perhaps the same way that Douglas Copelan was trying to with generation X or Richard Richard Linkl

was trying to with Slacker 10 years earlier? I I don't know what they tried.

earlier? I I don't know what they tried.

I I've there's a few things I I've always been very cautious about and it's um to make headlines about what what my films are about in terms of one is

generation. I'm very cautious about

generation. I'm very cautious about that. People say it oh this or that is a

that. People say it oh this or that is a generational portrait and I take it as a big compliment because it means that those who say it feel that they recognize themselves in it and I like

connection through cinema. I like that idea a lot that it's a space of being able to communicate things that we can't really talk about in our social life so easily.

But to get on my soap box and say that I'm making a generational thing, I I I always try to stick to characters the same. So people will say, "Oh, you're

same. So people will say, "Oh, you're making a statement about women the first time, you know, like when I had a female lead suddenly in a few of my films." And I didn't never thought about it like

gender and I I had to be cautious about what I said, you know. Oh, it's about Julie or it's about Thelma. I I I I I'm very interested in these human

experiences and they're human and I I didn't p I didn't set out to do it because of some idea of representing something bigger. It's a character and

something bigger. It's a character and that's the freedom of doing films or stories is that you you can actually say here's a family like sentimental value

and sure I can understand that there are allegorical aspects to that. It could be looked at as a miniature society. It

could they could be representatives of a certain class, a certain type of problems relating to that class. They

could also be just individuals in any family, you know, but but I have to stick to what I can control. And that's

the thing. And that's where I I'm I'm a little bit cautious about it. But

looking back, I've also realized through these films that because I use some of the same I use the same city a lot, Oslo. I use um some of the same actors.

Oslo. I use um some of the same actors.

I see that I'm commenting on life stages and that plays into a sense of generation. So I'm it's not that I'm

generation. So I'm it's not that I'm against it. I'm just very cautious about

against it. I'm just very cautious about saying that that was my purpose because it's not.

>> Um you mentioned actors. Uh we're moving on to Oslo August the 31st. Perhaps this

is a good moment to talk about Anders Danielson Lee who's >> Yeah.

>> the one of the main characters in your first film and takes the lead in this film. Um, what qualities was it that

film. Um, what qualities was it that that attracted you to working with him and now he's worked with you on four of your six features?

>> No, he's an extraordinary actor and I think I grew up learning how to direct performers from Anders a lot. We

experimented a lot over the first films of of how to get different effects out of a situation around him so that he could do something interesting. And we

realized that getting him kind of out of control was interesting and he he yearned for that. So more so in all slow August 31st I I'd let things play out

and we discovered this term that he came up with I think called jazz takes which because he's a musician that the idea that we do a couple a few takes based on the script and then we do some looser

semi-improvised takes that still deals with the same situation some of the same dialogue but allowing the actors to to use intuition drop a few lines or say

something else or you you know, and I found in almost all my films that those takes have been quite special if they're ready. And Anders is very much like

ready. And Anders is very much like that. He uh he get he kind of gets out

that. He uh he get he kind of gets out of control and that's very interesting.

Uh and I think that there's a rawness to his performance sometimes that I admire tremendously. I don't know there aren't

tremendously. I don't know there aren't not all great actors are interested in that but I think he is and I am >> and I think uh many of the actors that I

work with are into that kind of thing where it's a bit of a mystery for them as well when it when it happens something happens an event that is

triggered by a very strict set of circumstances inside a written piece on that day with a lot of planning and thought, but losing all of that,

throwing it away for something to happen in front of the camera. And that that's it. That's that's what he does very

it. That's that's what he does very well.

So, it was that scene in the film that made me go and see Oslo August the 31st three times in one week because I

couldn't get my head around this intense character study that zooms out to show us what life is like in a city for many

different people and yet it's still through the prism of this character.

There's so much empathy and compassion in this sequence alone and I It just confounded me the first time I saw it. I just How can you do this?

saw it. I just How can you do this?

>> You did it. Tell us.

>> Thank you. No, I don't know, man. I It

was interesting. I I don't watch my films again, so it's it's moving to see it.

>> Yeah, things have changed. People don't

own all of their favorite t-shirt episodes anymore, do they? No. I I I've I don't know. It was a kind of a very melancholic. It's the saddest thing I'll

melancholic. It's the saddest thing I'll ever do. I think this film I but um it's

ever do. I think this film I but um it's a discrepancy between the world is so beautiful and people are resourceful and people are smart and then it doesn't

work out and it's so sad.

I mean, haven't we all seen that in life? You know, that things don't work

life? You know, that things don't work out for people that we admire or think we're alike and we don't know how to bring them along with us. And I think it comes from a sense of grief actually

this film in a strange way. I I used to be a skater. Um,

yeah, and a lot of my friends died from heroin. So, yeah.

heroin. So, yeah.

>> And it's it plays into the idea this isn't strictly speaking a voice over, but in any conventional way, most of the voiceovers that populate your films

aren't conventional voiceovers. They

don't paper over the holes in the narrative.

>> True.

>> They don't do what Terrence Malik has been doing, which some people say is a different kind of thing. they they work on an entirely different level in many

ways. Um, but each time it feels like

ways. Um, but each time it feels like you and Escil are approaching the idea of the voiceover from a very different angle.

>> It's true. It's it's a strange I' I've said this a few times, but in the writing room we have a big bookshelf of film books and sight and sound and kayed cinema and all these kinds of, you know,

the the admiration for the form that we love so dearly and that I'm sure many of you do. If not, you wouldn't be sitting

you do. If not, you wouldn't be sitting here, you know, in this room, the the love for cinema. Um, and then there's a couch that we take turns lying on and

talking about life. And I think between there, we try to find formal possibilities to try again to get close and intimate with human characters. Um,

so I think that's voice over is such a cheap trick if it's done wrong. So we

really try to find interesting ways to almost allow ourselves. I think to a certain extent we are even though Escoll and I are are terribly atheist a atheistic we don't believe in God much

unfortunately we wish we did but you know we we don't but we are also kind of postprotestants. I think some people in

postprotestants. I think some people in this country have that feeling too that you carry a lot of the idea of virtues and guilt and a lot of that. And I think when it comes to cinema language, we have a lot of virtues actually like

ideals, things we want to live up to.

And I think voice over is this kind of dialectic of if we do it the wrong way, we'll kind of fail the film gods. You

know, it's it'll be a cheap way out. And

we really we really try to stay stay on that like and we forced ourselves to try to do uh voiceovers that are um bits of

uh documentary interviews. We've tried

to do it in louder than bombs. We do one where someone reads aloud in class and and a young boy's listening and the reading voice turns into his train of

thought in a way.

Then we've we've also tried to do different verb forms like imagined other tenses of verbs and it could have it should have and so forth like whatever

to try to get around how to use it but ultimately also to free the pictures to do something else. I think that's the most important thing voice again we're not super interested in that idea of

plot and storytelling. So if you if you let go of some of some layer of storytelling through the voiceover, you can let the images be more ambivalent or open for a different type of

interpretation. I think that's that's

interpretation. I think that's that's what it comes from. But again, as you can hear, I don't quite know what the hell we do. We're trying to figure it out every time. So

>> you mentioned Glad Bombs, and that was your next film and your first film fully in the English language. Um,

>> except for the shorts.

>> Except for the shorts, correct? Um

what was your decision to make that film at that point at that juncture? Uh

juncture? Uh >> we actually started working on it before also August 31st >> right >> and we couldn't get it made. It was a

moment in film history um around 2008 when we the film industry went from all the studios made kind of indie movies.

there was Warner Independent and Paramount Vantage and they were all making more personal less expensive films and all of that collapsed during the financial crisis of 2008. So we had

this idea that we could certainly do a equally personal film uh in America and it turned out not to be so easy. So we

went back to Europe and kept working on that script which is a family story again and and I it was wonderful. I

remember when it came out at can uh it had mixed reviews which hurt me was when I learned not to read reviews anymore.

Not everyone hated it but it was enough so that a lot of people didn't see it.

And that's how you kill a film, you know, by people not seeing it. So I I have this love now sometimes for films that come out of a big festival and someone says it's not so good. Like see

just see it maybe you'll like it, you know, like don't always agree with the critics. So, but what happens then was

critics. So, but what happens then was that what was that people were using it against me that I we were working in English and I remember that felt kind of I felt a bit hurt by that and I see back

and I understand there's kind of supposedly a flavor to my Oslo films that I don't control and maybe that's what people want. Fair enough. But I got

to work with um Gabriel Burn and Isabella Pair and Jesse Eisenberg and Deon Druit and all these wonderful actors. I I felt that we talked about uh

actors. I I felt that we talked about uh how do we convey grief? How do we deal with sorrow? How

grief? How do we deal with sorrow? How

regarding the pain of others, it's about a war photographer and her family. I I

still think it's a valid film and I saw recently that one of the papers that was really nasty to it, The Guardian, actually did a write up of it recently because of sentimental value. They had

an article about Louder than Bombs being an okay film. So, who knows, maybe it'll have its spring now. I'm saying this also to my colleagues out there. You

know, we all know how it is. There's

always going to be some naysayers and we have to accept that. But I felt that people what what hurt me wasn't I mean the film I'm happy about. So [ __ ] it.

What I was what I was sad about was the perception that I was somehow selling out.

>> Yeah.

>> Because I I've always had Final Cut.

I've always worked with limitations to achieve that I can work with my friends.

I can cast who I want to cast. I've done

my film with with my crew, with my team, with my family, you know, and I I I was hurt by the fact that people were insinuating that I was kind of selling out just because it was in English. I

think that's what really hurt me looking back.

>> It was kind of weird. I remember reading one review um I've forgotten which it was, so I just don't want to say it. Um

and they actually said that Yokim Trier has made one of his Norwegian films in English. Why did he do that? rather than

English. Why did he do that? rather than

take a film on its merits and you watch the film and um it's extraordinary because in in terms of the ellipses in time um that's

there going back to your your second film still >> which is about a photographer >> um and you're playing with the relationship there between

still imagery and moving images and it's just you've taken it much further with this film um I find it quite extraordinary that people would see it as an outlier >> in your work because there's so many elements you can look back to the first

two films >> and say I know where you're going or you're trying to try something different here >> but they do work of a piece >> which I I find quite extraordinary.

Following that though we move on to Thelma.

>> Yeah. which

is I'm I'm writing saying is in many ways you and Eskill diving head first into a world of genre film making. Yeah.

>> But then making it your own.

>> Yeah, that's true. The is a supernatural thriller to a certain extent and I kind of I'm happy I failed a bit because it turned into drama. Everything we do becomes character storytelling. Um and

Thelma was really interesting and it was also um I tried to shoot digital for the the the first and maybe last time. But I

I found it interesting. We worked with CGI. We did difficult shots. It was

CGI. We did difficult shots. It was

about creating a world which was imagined. It was about working maybe

imagined. It was about working maybe with more unconscious substructures of dream imagery, stuff like that. I

thought it was exciting. And um I and we we did 250 CGI shots with animals and fire and ice and glass and and all kinds of difficult things. And I I learned a

lot. It was really a craft film that I

lot. It was really a craft film that I that I enjoyed. And we had fun making some suspense sequences and stuff, but but I also felt coming out of that that

I long to go back to the more human stories of the kind of people that I knew a bit more. Um, so I think it's this is you don't know what you do along the way. You know, you know the

the way. You know, you know the Kirkugard saying that you only understand your life backwards, but you're forced to live it forwards. And I

I feel that with movies, too. You you do your best and one thing leads to another. Um, and I'm I'm I'm very happy

another. Um, and I'm I'm I'm very happy that I did Thelma and it got me some new friends. I always look at audiences as

friends. I always look at audiences as kind of friends. Maybe that's a British pop way of looking at it. A lot of bands here have said that, but you you truly feel that that some people embrace your

films and there was a different crowd that got into Thelma and I I enjoy that a lot. A lot of those conversations that

a lot. A lot of those conversations that came out of that. Um, one of the pleasures of doing events like these is the opportunity to go back and look at the director's work and Thelma is the only one of your films that I'd not seen

before.

>> Um, I'd missed it in the cinema. Um, and

I loved it. Uh but what really struck me and we've we've sort of touched a little bit on influences. Uh there's this incredible prologue that I I won't give

anything away, but it is quite stunning how it plays out because it does something you do not expect. Then we

have the title of the film and then we cut to this long shot that becomes a zoom >> that I immediately thought the opening

shot of the conversation Francis Philppler's film um Hitchcock's notorious Hitchcock's young and innocent the use of of Zoom um and I loved the

fact that you were wearing >> cinematic references really boldly throughout this film and you can see them in in the other films. Um, and we've mentioned one or two

directors, but but how big a role or a part do influences play when you're preparing for a film? Is it sort of Martin Scorsesei level going off watching films again or are you just

drawing from your own memory?

>> I think it's mostly my own memory really uh feelings for how I want to do it. I

actually try to stay really intuitive about misen how I shoot things. It's

something I've done since I was a kid.

It's the language I feel I master the most. I I don't feel very confident

most. I I don't feel very confident writing. I'm so happy to work with Escil

writing. I'm so happy to work with Escil Folk who's such a great writer and uh he he helps me through it. Not thereby

saying that that's his role. He's also

incredibly creative and and we share that responsibility equally, but he's a much better writer than me. So when it comes to shooting, uh that's very often

how I I feel I'm I'm more um comfortable with that. So, but I also know I'm I'm

with that. So, but I also know I'm I'm standing on the shoulders of film history as we all are, right? So, yeah,

I I try not to reference literally or at least if I do, I like the conversation.

I was aware of that long, but that's not really just a long sum in that sequence.

It's following the following. It's

different. So, but but you're right.

It's the it's the people in a big crowd and looking in a paranoid perspective kind of Alan J. pecul from a top which it goes back to Hitchcock and I I absolutely get what you're you're you're saying and I was trying that vernacular

of >> paranoid and thriller and but I also looked a lot at bee movies like Italian jalo horror had a couple of years where I just watched that because it was fun.

I go I go on these kind of rabbit hole journeys into music and film sometimes where I just go get obsessed about a certain era and I just really spend time on it and I find it fantastic and and I

watched a lot of horror movies that time. I thought that was fun. I do love

time. I thought that was fun. I do love um the the 10 films that you supplied for the sight and sound um greatest films of all time that obviously we run the gamut from 2001 8 and a half through

to mirror lenote and then you've just got at some point Bon's entire >> it's like I'm not even looking at one we're just going to bung them all into here together just one single big film

>> I sw I I swapped that in the most recent one >> did you >> for >> for uh Tree of Life Terrence Malik I felt feel bad not having a Terrence

Malik film on the first one. So I these things are impossible my friends. I'm

sure you all tried it. Oh, it's

impossible.

>> But life bold move.

>> Yeah, I know. I love that film. I was at the premiere at camp and I remember people some people have been booing.

It's a it's a massive amazing film.

>> He's like Terrence Malik is a big deal.

I watched all of his films. >> He doesn't give a [ __ ] He experiments clearly with his own project completely and uh He's a soulful

philosophical filmmaker that finds his form time and time again in different variations and I I he's super important to me.

>> So going on to your next film which is The Worst Person in the World. Um

for me it felt like you and Escil were sort of opening out >> to the world.

>> Yeah. the the two most recent films you've made have gone from intense character studies with the people who exist as satellites around these people's lives to >> to something larger.

>> Mhm.

>> Um what was the original idea for that film?

>> I think the original idea was just I wanted to have fun making a movie really basic. I wanted to have life and fun and

basic. I wanted to have life and fun and music and humor and colors and I want to make something romantic and I I really just want to make a film that has the vibe that that film has. I I've realized

the more I make movies that what I'm most interested in is the vibe of something. I know that sounds

something. I know that sounds hippie-ish, but you know like everyone if you see David Lynch, everyone gets what a vibe is. Like the best filmmakers

have just like a sense of style that becomes an emotion like music or something.

you know, that that's really the great kick.

>> I I and and I I like that kind of jazzy, loose, romantic, melancholic thing. And

then I lie on the couch a bit and think about my life at that time. And I I I've been that person who'd spend a long time figuring out how to create a home life

and all that. And um and I felt somehow that I knew Julie as as another like looking at her as a person. But then I I I stepped into her shoes with Escal and I realized that that was a really

exciting character with a great existential scope >> with all those possibilities and feeling kind of lost, which we were kind of rooting for her. All that chameleon

changing identity thing is fantastic. I

I like that as if we're also saying that she is more honest than the rest of us because she's aware that things are ever changing. We don't quite know who we

changing. We don't quite know who we are. And and I thought that was

are. And and I thought that was exciting. But but it was also going back

exciting. But but it was also going back to some of the energy of the early work and not having it's it's the fifth film.

So by that time it's like [ __ ] it. I I

don't I don't I'm not going to be avoiding of repeating myself if I do.

I'm going to accept that I change with time and I don't have control and if I end up repeating something and people make fun of me, that's still what I want to do.

I think Julie is one of the best creations in a film that I can think of in the last 10 or 20 years. I think I again when I saw the film the first time I just wanted to turn around and come

back in and watch the film again. In

some ways >> and perhaps this obviously is just my interpretation, but she feels like your most novelistic character. Mhm.

>> There's so there's so many levels that I could I actually feel like watching the film >> that I'm experiencing

a really really detailed work of fiction that's that's being peeled away that it feels like there's so much thought that's gone into every aspect of her personality

>> that no matter what situation you put her in, she seems to organically grow out of each one. Hm.

Interesting. That's a compliment. Yeah.

No, thank you, man. I I hope it makes sense. And I'm I'm super I I think also

sense. And I'm I'm super I I think also it's a film about exposing that lively

person to the fact that you can't I don't think you can really connect deeply with other people unless you accept the fact that life is also about loss.

>> Yeah. And I I think that's a grand statement there, people. But I think I think my experience at least again I I I can only speak for myself and I only make these characters, right? So but I I

find it interesting how we connect deeper with the world through loss and it's a story of that coming to understand that you mean something. I

think at the beginning Julie doesn't understand that she means something or is lovable, but at the end she understands she's meant something to someone and therefore maybe she can

encounter a deeper sense of connection with other people and and that that's at least the theme that we were exploring even though we also want to have a lot of fun.

>> Thank you. I think that's got to be one of the most wonderful examples of show don't tell. Don't tell us how she feels.

don't tell. Don't tell us how she feels.

just just show that you romantic you.

>> Yes, for once though I am a romantic. I

think I am. Yeah.

>> Um Renata um some people might remember was one of the PE characters who appears late in in Oslo.

>> Um >> she's perfect in this and she won the the best actress prize at the Can Film Festival. Um did you have her in mind

Festival. Um did you have her in mind when you were writing the character?

>> Sure, I wrote it for her or we did.

Escali. Yeah. Uh she was one of these people. I felt that she had something

people. I felt that she had something extraordinary. It's weird. Once in a

extraordinary. It's weird. Once in a while you meet actors and I had this with Renata. She came in for an audition

with Renata. She came in for an audition on Oslo August 31st and after like 3 seconds I was like she's got something.

And I was on set with her for nine days during Oslo August 31st because she we were shooting a whole the sun's coming up sequence and to sustain the light we could only shoot like an hour each day

in the morning and then go do something else in the film. So, so I had her on set all the time and I felt very safe around her like I could give her a task of bicycling in the back and doing and she would always fill it with life and

and some presence and uh I thought okay she'll fly off and become a star and nothing happened with films and her really she was doing great work in

theater and and some roles kind of cast as the the the lead females jealousy her

husband dated a younger woman kind of type charact like really not up to her you know what she could do as an actor.

So that was interesting. So I wrote her this film and yeah >> and then she also appears obviously in the new film Sentimental Value.

>> Yeah.

>> And again was that the similar thing you wrote?

>> Yeah. Sure. She was one of the first things I mean when when you're in a writing room I I you I feel pretty low at the beginning.

I feel that it won't there won't be another film. I won't do this again. And

another film. I won't do this again. And

there's there, you know, you really don't feel top of the game. And to have something to have faith in like a great actor is is a wonderful thing. And then

you can write it for that person. You

can even go and meet that person and talk a bit about it and they will say, "Oh, this is interesting." You know, it gives a special energy. So we did that again with sentimental value.

>> And just in terms of of working with her and with a script, I I know you said with Anders sometimes a different line will work.

Are you happy to improvise as a director or are there limits within >> the process? Uh,

>> we don't improvise a lot. I mean, um, it's it's that loose take. Free

improvisation. I I've almost never done maybe, but but something happens at the end of a scene sometimes and they'll just run off and do something better or interesting and and you stick with that.

I'm not interested in the idea of controlling what happens in a moment when it comes alive. I want it to feel like life. That

alive. I want it to feel like life. That

is not the same to say that it has to be realistic or anything, but it that that some event occurs where it's exciting to look at. It has a sense of energy and it

look at. It has a sense of energy and it it mystifies me. A lot of the time now when I'm on the road with the new film, people ask the actors and me to explain

things we've done. And the fact is we can spend rehearsal time prepping it, intellectualizing, sharing personal stories, doing the scene on the floor a

little bit loosely, video filmming it.

Then I rewrite a bit. Then we meet on set. We throw a lot of the intellectual

set. We throw a lot of the intellectual stuff away. I just try to support them

stuff away. I just try to support them to try to do versions. And the moment something happens, which is exciting, they can tell and I can tell and you're

like, "Wow, that was great. Thank you."

and then we move on quickly and we never talk about it and then it's in the film and everyone says oh what was why did that you know we and we don't know it's it's a kind of mystery I know how to get

them into it and and to help them do it but then after that it's it's just judging it which is also why I sit next to the camera and we shoot on 35 um film

and I have a monitor and I look at them because I believe in the sense of transference. I believe that as a

transference. I believe that as a director your task is to to do two things. One is to genuinely feel and

things. One is to genuinely feel and judge what is happening in front of the camera and not get stuck on your idea.

Again to your question of the freedom.

>> Yeah.

>> What is really going on is the question I have to ask or emotionally ask. What

is really going on? And you know, you go to a party and you have a friend and they tell funny stories, but you don't laugh because you sense something else is going on. And then afterwards they

say, "Ah, my relationship is in in trouble, man." And you know, oh, you're

trouble, man." And you know, oh, you're sad and I felt it and you were trying to hide it and I didn't understand what was going on, but you feel these things and the camera feels it. This is the wonderful empathic possibility of

cinema.

Not all films has to deal with that, of course, but I'm interested in that. So

when something happens with Renata's face and I'm sitting there and I'm like that's not quite what we planned but it was exciting and interesting and I think I can use it. So one side of my brain is

trying to go to zero and just look and feel so I can can judge what are we getting and the other side of my brain is trying to think how can I push this

onward so we can do new variations on the take. what can I say like simple

the take. what can I say like simple things so that they can continue to do a couple more interesting takes and that's the job and some people are more

interested in in hitting I mean I see a lot of films which are more about the precision of rhythmical dialogue you know um and and that's fantastic you know

that's wonderful but that's not quite what I do >> you're a father now >> it did strike me knowing about watching

this film the first time that that might be tapping into.

>> It's it's a weird I I had one daughter when I wrote this film and then the moment we finished the screenplay my wife and I realized we were going to have another with exactly three years

apart like the two sisters. So in the future we're very worried that people are going to think this is self-portrait of me which certainly not the intention.

Um, no, of course that matters. I mean,

for writing a film like this, it changed me. Of course, having kids is one of the

me. Of course, having kids is one of the big biggest things that can happen to you. And uh you you start understanding

you. And uh you you start understanding the discrepancy between what you say and what you really say or rather how so many things are transferred to a child and has been transferred to us from our

parents and from their parents to them and how these generational things uh appear that are so mysterious to us and so difficult to put into words. And

trying to trace that in a story and in a movie I thought was interesting. And and

this what you just saw now is is really the middle of the film. And and perhaps when they're smoking, you realize that actually the the the biggest conflict in the film is between Renata and Stellin's

characters, the oldest daughter and the father, and that they they genuinely love each other.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's the pain. That's the that's the problem. they they it's really their

the problem. they they it's really their inability to be with each other uh in some sense of peace that that drives the main conflict of the story.

>> There is something quite extraordinary throughout the film about this idea of physical space between them >> but emotional intimacy you can actually see in their expressions in what they're

not saying of just how much they love each other but in what they say and how they act they just can't follow through.

>> Yeah. the the end of the film is is when I knew I had a film that I want to make.

>> Not to give it away.

>> No, no. Yeah. No, but it's, you know, it's it's um I've said this before that I feel, for example, also August 31st, it's made up against the black canvas in a way. If you peek into the depth of it,

a way. If you peek into the depth of it, it's really dark. This one has light.

It's um >> I think it's more about reconciliation somehow than anything I've done and love and how complicated that is.

There there are so many different things we could talk about with this film. I'm

aware we're limited with time and we want to take some questions from the audience. I've got just two elements I

audience. I've got just two elements I want to ask about. First of all, something we haven't talked about that's so important in all of your feature films music >> and songs particularly. We open this

film with Teri's Dancing Girl and we close it with Abby Sey's kind of chase.

Um, how much do you think about what songs are going to go in? Or is it when you work with a music supervisor?

Um, because they are extraordinary some of the >> Thank you. No, but I I'm a music geek big time. And the fact is, you know,

big time. And the fact is, you know, behind this this um screen there are loudspeakers and if you mix a tune right

in a film, you'll hear it in a better condition in a cinema than anywhere else and you'll ever hear it. So to be allowed to use really wonderful music is is a great gift to a film. I really take

it seriously. I also I still DJ and I've

it seriously. I also I still DJ and I've I've been a you know so of course Terry Calier is a dream that we were allowed to use that and it had a tone that I felt also

um kind of folk. Are anyone familiar with Tal's work? It was kind of revived through the UK actually in the 90s. Um

Minnie Ripperton uh Rotary Connection was produced um by Charles Stephanie and he also produced three wonderful albums by Ty Calier. Really worth Dancing Girl.

What color is love is the name of the album and the the the first song is Dancing Girl. Extraordinary music. Yeah,

Dancing Girl. Extraordinary music. Yeah,

I should stop. I could go on but yeah and lobby cif is is British and allowed us and we communicated and he gave us

uh kanuk chase which is a song I I'm so happy and privileged to be using in the film at the end and I I yeah he gave it to us even so that we could afford it because it's quite a popular song so you

know we don't have the biggest budget in the world >> it is wonderful with Harry Kalia's song at the beginning of a film um and taps into the last question I have um we've We've talked about the emotional depth

of characters. We've talked about the

of characters. We've talked about the way that you play with time in your films. And the idea of memory also encomp encompasses the physical spaces.

So the house that dominates this film is the house that Anders goes back to towards the end of Oslo 31st of um August. And in both instances

August. And in both instances they're like memory palaces.

the it's it's not the clutter of people's lives. There's the odd little

people's lives. There's the odd little thing that sets off an emotion. And I

know production design is is something you think an awful lot about in your films. Um but this house is is quite extraordinary. Could you talk about

extraordinary. Could you talk about >> No, I I agree. I agree. We have the wonderful production designer Jurgen Stung B Larson who also did also August 31st.

>> Yeah.

>> Who did a great job and he also made all the whole of the 20th century. you know,

every decade really, he he dressed in a replica studio uh of of the house that we built outside of town. Um, but I'm interested philosophically in the idea of place, again, going back to your

early questions about memory. Don't we

all need a staging for our memories? And

haven't you all encountered that you think of some event in your life and the chronology of it is a little bit hard to catch as if time doesn't manifest

clearly but you remember where it was and you can kind of feel the mood again like the mood of films or the place I know that I can have dreams still about places I've lived that I'd probably

never go back to as if we need a staging. We need a specific place for

staging. We need a specific place for our memories to be who we are. So we are extremely tied to the physical space that we surround ourselves with. Um it

could be strange corners of streets or an entry point of a childhood home where we saw seasons change winter summer where we came in and we were heartbroken

or we were in love or we you know this or that and it all happened in the same space and it's tied to that somehow again sense of phenomenological

identity. So to me that's um again

identity. So to me that's um again without being able to understand it quite or explain it quite I know how it works in movies and in this film this house

yes you could intellectualize it and make it a literary discussion that it could be an allegory or is it does this represent time or the 20th century or whatever fine but he's also specific

it's a house it's those hallways and those rooms and those windows that I repeat in a certain structure kind of in control and kind of out of control and that creates the fundament of the movie.

There is no uh film like this the kinds I make with actors and places without the spatial treatment and that has emotional significance and it's just uh

yeah it's hard to put into words but that's what we do when we make movies I think it's to play with space like that and in this one it was fun because that house is quite extraordinary.

I um yeah, I I've often asked myself I I come from a family line of of people that have had addiction issues. I've I I haven't had it myself, but I've been

very close to a lot of people that I loved, both that I've lost and that have survived. I know a lot of survivors. I

survived. I know a lot of survivors. I

know a lot of tough people that have been understood that toughness is about vulnerability and self-love and you know I care about that theme. So thank you

for sharing that. Um but you're you know you're not alone and we're all grappling with different things and mechanisms in

our human experience of being you know we we compare our own in inside with others outside and I don't think society is making that less so at the

moment I think we're quite good at seeing the others as more successful or functioning than ourselves and I think one of the reasons I wanted to make Oslo

August 31st was to try to, I don't know, create something where I showed someone that was kind of cool and lovable and yet kind of messy because those are the people that I know that have addiction

issues. So, thanks for sharing that,

issues. So, thanks for sharing that, man.

>> I don't know if I can quite answer give a full answer. It's it's such an individual specific thing when I create characters with my team, my collaborators and with the actors

and I mean I the the mo the mother son versus the the father daughter I mean what I'm playing a little bit with in

both of the cases is that there's a differentiated gender balance that manifests in that difficult

relationship into the child's relational pattern in their love life and that then becomes quite similar since it's a father towards a daughter

in this case uh people that are straight and they have difficulties figuring out their their love life in a way I think that's that's something that reminded me of each other when I wrote those two

films in a way that that that admiration of the difficult parent but I but I I think you know I I I my problem is very

often when people ask me about writing women or men or I I I don't see it as different. I I'm sorry. I it's like

different. I I'm sorry. I it's like people stories and I try to find characters and there are so many aspects to human experience of a character that that so gender is one of them of course

and I try to be specific about those things but I don't think about it as as a system that I can kind of rest on. So

a mother will be like this or father will be like that. But but thank you for bringing that film up.

I appreciate it.

>> It's material. I mean places are also material like actors in a way. It sounds

cynical but it's not meant in that way.

It's that's the most fantastic material that you can find with a camera, you know. Um so it's material. I I know my

know. Um so it's material. I I know my city very well and I know how the sun moves because I've walked along those streets at all times of year. You know,

I'm I'm 51. I've had some time to look at streets. And so often when we write,

at streets. And so often when we write, I I get a sense already of almost as if the street or the place has a feeling in itself. That's the ground basis of the

itself. That's the ground basis of the scene. And then if I know a bit about is

scene. And then if I know a bit about is it evening or morning or how's the light and I I get start getting a vibe from from that. Um, and then showing it to

from that. Um, and then showing it to you. It's It's rather simple, isn't it?

you. It's It's rather simple, isn't it?

I just film it and I hope that someone wants to look at it. But I'm glad you feel there's coherency. I I will add this though.

At home in Norway, some people are a little bit sad that I'm always the one being put forward as the representative of a city that could have so many different stories. So again the

different stories. So again the generational question I'm always cautious about.

I mean I have a very subjective view on Oslo. Some people find that I beautify

Oslo. Some people find that I beautify it or or or that it's in terms of class it's a specific some some areas where people are more welloff than others and and all of that is true probably but

that's again the stories that I can tell and I've always encouraged and try to support filmmakers to tell other stories in in the city as well. So but I appreciate that it translates and that you felt connected to it. Thank you.

I I guess that's that's what we find the most fun almost is to try to come up with stuff like that. Again, the

virtues, the idea that how can we make some formal playful scenes that get into the mind of the characters, but they have to be interesting and good scenes, you know, and and that's that's it. But

I um yeah that's that's the that's the formal thing you know I I I know that um people often find when you say formal at least in the UK almost more than in the

US I find that that's interpreted as a cold distant uh manipulative skillful thing you do with an image and an edit or something but but I I feel I when I talk about

form it's really that everything has to have a form and that you find have to find a warm inclusive hopefully quite original form and then you can get closer to the feeling of how it is to be

on mushrooms or something.

>> So there was no method direction going on there. You were like dropping acid

on there. You were like dropping acid all the time doing mushrooms. >> No, I'm too neurotic for that. But

>> yeah, good question, man. Thank you. No,

I uh yeah, I there's a lot of music I play on set that I probably couldn't even afford, including that song. Uh I

love Talking Heads. Um and some really great songs that we have just paid for him even though they're expensive. But

uh yeah, I know Terry Caller, for example, I played I I play um music a lot on sets. Like for example, the whole sequence you saw with Renata running

around, she responds very well to kind of rare post disco 1981 to 1984 New York underground.

>> What? That is really specific.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm a DJ, so I realized like she loves kind of low tempmpo disco like 96 BPM till 114. So, so that's she said, "Oh, that's a great tune." And I

was playing that a lot because it had kind of a groove which wasn't too hectic. Uh, so yeah, that's the specific

hectic. Uh, so yeah, that's the specific example. And then classical music, jazz,

example. And then classical music, jazz, you know, sometimes also to calm everyone down before the actors arrive so the vibe on set when the actors come into the room is in the right place

because actors are so sensitive, you know, to what's going on. And we have um the AD team. I have a wonderful team of ads. I actually have three first ads

ads. I actually have three first ads that I worked with on this last film that do different things all at once.

And I we try to create a path from the holding area, the trailer or the green room, wherever the actors are that's clear so they don't have to encounter people on their phones or eating

sandwiches or being stressed onto the path to to hit in front of the camera.

So then to play music and make the vibe right also for myself, I get into the mood, you know. So, so that's that's how I use music.

>> Sentimental Value, as Justin said, is released in the UK on the 26th of December, also known as Boxing Day. Um,

I strongly recommend that you take your families to see it because even if you don't get on, you can at least point at the screen and say, "At least we're not as bad as those." Um, it's being

released by Movie and you can see the Oslo trilogy of Oslo's 31st of August, Rare and The Worst Person in the World on Movie, but all of your films are

available to watch online. I strongly

recommend that you watch them over and over again. Thank you to BFI for

over again. Thank you to BFI for organizing this, but most of all, can you please join me in thanking Yimria?

Thank you. Thank you.