Jon Stewart & Mark Cuban Talk 2024 Politics, Healthcare, Crypto and AI | The Weekly Show

another great question John Stewart Boom

come on end of year baby let's do

[Music]

this hey everybody uh welcome once again

it is the final weekly show uh POA paloa

uh at the end of this very tumultuous

2024 uh we've been delighted uh that you

have stuck around and you've uh listened

to these fine conversations as as much

as you can and I hope that you've

enjoyed it and we're going to keep going

we're going to be on ourselves a a a

little bit of a break uh some rumors

that I am taking a few weeks to soak in

the WAN sto signing no that's not true

that's not true I I knew it was coming I

don't you know listen when you're a Mets

fan you expect the best you expect it

all to to go your way you're like a

Gatsby no it was a it was a complete uh

and and utter shock and joy but we are

going to do our our final conversation

for this year with our with our go-to

dude who does our our final

conversations Mark Cuban as you know we

had uh Bernie Sanders on last week we

like to do we like to go from Bernie

Sanders to Mark Cuban you go from uh the

Democratic Socialist to the billionaire

and you hope that the audience does not

sustain a groin pull uh in that

transition but uh a really interesting

guy really smart guy and I'm really

looking forward to the conversation I

hope you guys are too uh so let's let's

just get on damn to

it ladies and gentlemen it is our annual

uh weekly show pod wrapup uh as per

tradition Mark Cuban will be joining us

uh he is the co-founder of Cost Plus

drugs Mark cubin welcome to the weekly

show pod year and round up thanks for

having me John from now on I am only

going to introduce you as co-founder of

costplay plus drugs as far as I'm

concerned Mavericks Shark Tank

billionaire none of that it's co-founder

Cost Plus drugs that's all I care about

that's all that's that's all we care

about uh Mark cubin the year has ended

this has been a

tumultuous a tumultuous year uh for you

personally you uh you've changed in

terms of you're done with shark tank now

you have you taped your last episode I

have taped my last episode I have to do

some updates for some of the companies I

invested in but in terms of sitting in

the chair done now did they throw at the

end of it was there like a dog pile was

there like a what was the type of

Celebration that was done to end your

rain there was cake and alcohol and a

little going away party so it was fun

all right fair enough fair enough no

nudity I'm assuming it was all above

board it was all uh parental consent and

and and that N I have an NDA an

absolutely A wise choice uh the one

thing I want to ask you about you

stepped into the political arena in a

way that you have not in in the past

what was your experience like there did

it leave you wanting more did it leave

you cynical what what was your

experience being a surrogate on the on

the political circuit I mean it didn't

leave me wanting more that's for sure um

but it wasn't cynical either I kind of

enjoyed it I mean it was a unique

experience I loved going out there and

talking to people about America and you

know what I'd hope the future would look

like um how businesses would impact them

and you know the Harris campaign had me

talking primarily to um small to

medium-sized businesses who were not

kamla Hara supporters so I got to you

know respond to their questions and talk

about the economy and businesses and

starting companies and I really enjoyed

it when you talk to small business and

and medium business what are the

frustrations and complaints that you

that you hear the most are they are they

anything that surprised you about that

no there were there were no surpris

at all I mean it was you know small

business people are just trying to get

by for the most part and you know I had

my kind of got into my wrote approach

where you know I talked about the fact

that there were 33 million businesses in

the country 98% of them are small

businesses that are passed through and

98% of them make $400,000 or less profit

or is that are you talking about that's

that's net or that's no that's net

that's worky waren because if it's a

pass to a business that individual

entrepreneur or the entrepreneur is

making $400,000 or less and that's a

magic number because remember kamla

Harris said if you make $400,000 or less

your taxes weren't going up they

potentially were only going down so that

was an important component of the

discussion and then we talked about

potential tariffs and you know I tried

to project out and say look if it's a

year from now and it's December of 2025

and you're you know you're in the retail

business as an example if there are 60%

tariffs on products from China how's

that going to impact your Christmas

selling season right you know nobody say

oh that's a great thing and how does

that impact you as a family you know now

all of a sudden all your Christmas

presents or most your Christmas presents

cost 60% more you're going to be able to

not buy as much you're buying less and

so not only are you're not going to be

happy as a family but the vendors that

you deal with the retailers the online

buy whatever it may be they're not going

to sell as much either there's a

cascading impact and then I would go

into um immigration and you know and I

was honest I would not let the Harris

campaign tell me what to say you know

they would try to give me notes and I

would say I don't

care that's what they always want from a

surrogate is for them to go like hey man

screw your notes I'm just gonna say what

I'm were were you able to have any

influence on policy at all you know I

know there was some discrepancy between

unrealized gains and that was something

you thought was was a kind of a

non-starter did you have some influence

on policy there I think I did I mean I

talked a lot about unrealized gains and

you know when I went out there and said

you know for the first time it was

ridiculous and I went back and spoke to

them and said you know I'm not hearing

you guys challenge me at all and they're

like well you're saying things that we'd

like to say but we can't say so I I kept

on going with it so I took that as tacet

approval and and went with him so that

that was one area another area was

crypto I mean I was very clear early on

that there was data from Pew research

that said you know at least 40% of young

men were into crypto and the way I

explained it to them wasn't a big

picture crypto thing at all I was like

look for a 21y old kid particularly men

these days they're not like we were when

we were growing up where it was a right

of passage to open up a bank account or

to get a savings account now they

download Robin Hood or coinbase or some

app and they live in an app economy and

if you downloaded Robin Hood or coinbase

you're buying crypto over stocks and

you're buying crypto not just because

you want to see it go up but because it

makes you part of a community you know

Dogecoin is a meme stock and everybody

talks about it Bitcoin whatever it may

be and so if these young men have their

entire net worth tied up in crypto and

you've got a sec head Gary gendler doing

everything possible to reduce the value

of their net worth and everything they

read in in those apps about you know

what's happening to the price of their

crypto is you know driven and talked

about relating to Gary gendler they're

not going to vote for you and I said it

to Gary gendler directly I said it to

KLA I said it to her team that Gary

gendler could cost her the election and

there's an argument to be made when you

look at the numbers you know a whole lot

of young men voted against KLA Harris

and I think a crypto had a lot to do

with it so you're saying that the

conventional wisdom which is uh should

have gone on Joe an's podcast is wrong

she should have gone on Gary gendler's

podcast and told him uh what was

happening there now as someone who is uh

I I understand slightly about blockchain

and I certainly understand the utility

of something like that in terms of

crypto look if you talk about young men

and on apps as far as I can see they're

also on FanDuel and all these other

gambling act so explain to me help me

understand why this isn't just a a

random gamble for these young men that

isn't going to come back and bite them

in the ass what's the underpinnings of

it and and why is it better than just

jumping on FanDuel and trying to hit a

parlay on squin Barkley which we won't

get into well there are a lot of

analogies I'm not gonna argue with that

right but think about gold I mean all

that gold we have in Fort Knox it's not

because the United States government is

betting on how much jewelry is going to

be sold at

Christmas I hope hope not right I mean

there's no intrinsic value to Gold other

than we say there is intrinsic value to

Gold I see gold is a store of value and

so people hope it goes up there's some

people who think that you know if

there's a catastrophe and um the economy

craters then gold will retain its value

but it's not like you can walk around

with a bar of gold and you know like

it's 1822 and you slice off a little

sliver and you weigh it someone's just

going to knock you out and take your bar

of gold that's how I've been at the

supermarket I've been I've been slicing

my gold getting getting my eggs smle for

you a little smiple for you that's what

that's that's what I'm talking about so

let me translate that to bitcoin yeah

okay Bitcoin has become a store value

it's you know marketed that way and has

been marketed for the last you know 15

years or whatever it is and it's gotten

to a point of acceptance just like way

way way back when gold got to a point of

acceptance as an alternative for legal

currency or as a foundation behind legal

currency

Bitcoin has kind of taken that place and

it makes more sense in a lot of respects

you're not going to carry around that

bar of gold but you can carry around you

know your phone as an example that has

Bitcoin on it and if you need to

transfer value to somebody else it's

easier to do it right now particularly

if you're 21 with Bitcoin than it is

with gold so there truly is an economic

value there but now we have between gold

and and Bitcoin there's this other thing

that we have which is currency and and

is this meant to augment that to replace

that what are the transactions that are

made better by using either Bitcoin or

or crypto or those things where what

need is it filling I guess is well it's

faster and cheaper particularly for

international exchanges so okay you know

if if you're in pick a country right and

you're like Mark I need you know I need

some something to spend right I need

some money it's a whole lot easier for

me to send you you know $100 in Bitcoin

or ethereum um or usdc then it is in

cash now is the idea then that like what

would happen with like say an Apple pay

or something along those lines that

stores will begin to adopt a technology

so that it its use becomes more

convenient even at like if I'm running

down to Wawa and I want to grab myself

an ice tea no so let's talk about two

different things here that's two

different things okay okay I AO but by

the way I apologize for making you do

this remedially no that's okay I like it

right but I really don't know it so well

and I would like to know it so just

think of Bitcoin like digital gold

period end the story oh it's just built

on supply and demand only the difference

is people are still mining gold and it's

physical you have to pull it out of the

ground there's a lot of cost associated

with that Bitcoin is All Digital but

it's limited in the number of Bitcoins

that will ever be created to 21 million

now who limits that is is there an

overseeing body that makes that was part

of the original plan that's the way way

it was designed originally so right now

they're about 19.8 million Bitcoin out

there minus what's been lost along the

way how do you lose it so early on you

know you might have bought a bunch of

Bitcoin in 2012 for 10 cents each didn't

think twice about it threw away that

phone and you had 10,000 Bitcoin on it

oh dear God yeah so there's stories

about people literally who put hard

drives into um trash sheeps and lost it

and now we're searching in trash sty

looking for so but that's Bitcoin and

it's just supply and demand that defines

what it's worth so right now the price

is near $100,000 that means a lot more

people are buying it than selling it

very analogous to gold right so then

there are other cryptos ethereum is one

that I also own a bunch of and the

difference with ethereum is it really

takes advantage of the blockchain but it

adds something called smart contracts

and what a smart contract is it allows

um activity to be triggered by other

activity so for instance you know I

won't go into deep details but if I want

to create an nft and use that for um for

books right just let's say for textbooks

right that smart contract associated

with that nft has specific features

about it one of the unique features that

are part of ethereum and smart contracts

and nfts is they can pay royalties so if

John Stewart writes a book for a college

right and it's a textbook on accounting

right now it's got to be physical and

then you go to the bookstore and you buy

a Ed copy but for used copy that's sold

and resold or an ebook that they would

download or something right the physical

copy you don't make another nickel in

royalties as it's sold and resold if you

do it as a digital version using

ethereum and a smart contract and an nft

the royalties can be paid on and on and

on and on again um as as that digital

textbook is resold this is this

something that's been applied yet to

music publishing because that seems like

it would cure an an awful lot of of the

difficulties in in the royalties of

music publishing yeah in all IP for that

matter um but the reality is it's only

been done on a small scale the challenge

for crypto right now in all cander it

hasn't had its Instagram moment if you

remember going back to the original app

store in 2009 I think it was it wasn't

there weren't a lot of people

downloading apps for their smartphones I

mean unless you were really geeky and

into it but then all of a sudden

Instagram came along and Grandma and

Grandpa and mom and dad needed it then

Facebook had an app and so that really

got people into smartphones and and um

using and downloading apps we haven't

had that moment with crypto yet that's

still something that's an that has

ultimate utility for everyone and anyone

that doesn't exist yet and that's kind

of the ongoing hope but now let's tie

that back to Gary gendler right so all

these people trying to come up with apps

that run on Smart contracts on top of

ethereum Solano whatever it may be

whatever form of crypto it may be Gary

gendler wanted to call all forms of that

a security right he wanted to regulate

it like you would regulate stocks for

those that are okay and in some cases

they were Securities if you're selling

them to raise money for a business

that's the security nobody's arguing

that but if you happen to buy

um an nft um as a a textbook he wanted

to call that a security as well if you

use your um salana or madic or e um not

ethereum but let's say salana or madic

two smaller um cryptocurrencies to

purchase something online he wanted to

call that a security as well and as a

result that sent a lot of developers who

are trying to create these new smart

contract apps out of the United States

other parts of the world Singapore Japan

uh Korea you name it to start companies

that otherwise would have been in the

United States I had two companies that

actually left the us to do their

development because they could just sell

to crypto enthusiasts and and users in

other countries and not worry about it

here I feel like this is turning into

digital currency for dummies where it is

and unfortunately I'm the dummy who who

doesn't quite understand so in in my

mind mind and and this is perhaps you

know rigid thinking to to a large extent

what what can we put in place if it's

not uh a Securities regime that has

regulation what do you put in place that

can protect people who want to invest in

this but like in the way that the

government would put in FDIC protections

if you had a certain amount of money in

there are there protections that you

think would be worthwhile and sure at

what level would those uh regulations

become too onerous and start to stifle

the creativity so you know I have this

company called lazy.com so all it is is

a place for you to show your nfts so if

you go to lazy.com mcube and you get to

see the the nfts that I own I wanted to

register it with the SEC to make sure

they didn't come after me in the event I

decided to raise money when you go into

and start filling out the forms you find

out immediately that it's apples and

oranges that it doesn't you're trying to

fit a you know the into the square and

it and it just doesn't work and so all

the crypto industry is asked for is to

modify the um the forms and the

regulations to be suitable to crypto

it's not that you know we don't want to

register it's just like oil and and

energy has got their own special set of

forms with the SEC Finance has got their

own set special set of forms crypto

needs a special set of forms that's all

anybody's ask for you you don't want

somebody to start regulating it that

doesn't understand it as a commodity and

this gets into the larger question that

maybe ties together the two things that

we're kind of talking about which is

your experience kind of in that

political Arena and also your experience

Within These sort of new uh more higher

Tech financial Industries and that is

with democracy being uh at best an

analog system you know sort of designed

for the slow uh Temperance and and the

idea of chewing on these uh uh checks

and balances and all these things it is

so outmatched by this new digital

economy and was there ever a thought

I've I've always kind of in my mind

dreamed about this kind of almost

bureaucratic moonshot a kind of

Manhattan Project to help and I imagine

you saw this when you talked to small

businesses regulation is typically uh

the domain of larger companies they're

the ones that make regulations

complicated oh yeah poor people don't

middleclass people don't small

businesses don't make it complicated

it's people that have two floors of

lawyers

bring in all these loopholes do do you

see a pathway through to create a

governmental uh uh moonshot like that

that that can clean out a lot of these

regulations that are hurting the small

businesses but still protect them so

that's a deep deep deep question or is

that doge is that is that what the doge

is that's a deep question because

regulatory capture is a real thing the

bigger companies can introduce

regulations that make it harder for the

smaller companies to compete they can

introduce friction that makes you know

filling out forms and all these things

very much more difficult to even get

started and state and local that you

pile on top of that I mean it's it it

kind of really rolls like a snowball

down a hill yeah and that's where AI

more than crypto look to just to wrap up

on the crypto side there's this thing

called Dow Dao right distributed

autonomous organization I think is what

it stands for and within with Dows it's

really easy to set it up that for

anything to happen within that

blockchain or within that organization

with those smart contracts has to be

voted on and it's voted on by people who

actually own the cryptocurrency which

could be well it's not Doge but there's

other types of cryptos that so it's it's

a a crowdsourced regulatory idea yeah I

wouldn't call it crowds but it's a

progressive dream you know from each

according to their ability to each you

know right it's just you know it's

everybody gets an equal vote right and

whatever the the group decides and it's

up to the Dow to set up the principles

of it and what's voted on and what you

know is it a majority a super majority

whatever it may be um and then you get

to decide and that goes into evolving

that digital currency or the digital

applications that are there so that's on

one side that those haven't really taken

off I thought really thought they would

a lot more than they did but they have

not then there's using Ai and so there

things like NEPA right which go into um

the Environmental Protection stuff um to

try to find out that there's a little

frog or whatever before something's

built in my opinion and the

conversations I had with some of the

Harris folks is that's where AI really

really can apply because there's a

process designed for the people in NEPA

who go through and determine what should

be approved and what data is required

and um how it's you know what friction

should be added or what friction should

be removed artificial intelligence is

great for that all the rules that the

individuals on those councils and Boards

those make those determinations you know

they have rules that they follow they

have guide books that they follow it's

honorous yeah yeah it's honorous there's

tons of bureaucracy but tons of data

there you put that into artificial

intelligence into a large language model

and you let you know you use that to

train the large language model and then

when a new project comes along you set

up agents which then feed the questions

and the answers and the answer is to the

responses um to that new organization

whatever it is they may be building does

that abdicate our autonomy and and

because I was looking at it like common

sense like if you remember uh in uh

Pennsylvania right this was not very

long ago there was a huge fire on 95 and

the highway collapsed under the typical

regulatory regimes you're talking about

five or 10 years of uh incredibly

expensive bureaucratic red tape that's

going and and this uh really important

artery for uh interstate commerce and

all these other things would have been

closed down at some level through Common

Sense the governor just said that [ __ ]

it we're we're just gonna build it and

and it was done in 10 days or something

like that and it really demonstrated

that it could be done government could

be more agile and and do we need to rely

on some large language model or should

we just look at things and go oh we need

housing and we're crushing our ability

to create uh uh allow the markets to

create this or to do those things

through these other regulations all the

above right because there was the bridge

in Baltimore there was a bridge in

Pittsburgh where the same things

happened they turned around quickly the

challenge is who makes that decision

when it's obvious it's easy when it's

not so obvious it's far more difficult

and so that's where the AI comes in in

large language models because across the

bread however many instances of

evaluations that need to take place

across the country you don't want you

know individuals having to make those

decisions but I thought that's the whole

point I thought the whole point of

people running for office is that

they've got a vision for and and they

earn our trust as opposed to Ai and this

again may be more of the Lites view of

not understanding of of AI I I'm I'm

nervous about abdicating that at least

with people there is a certain regime of

accountability that we can bring through

I can't vote out a large language model

no this is the soil and green thing

right because it was wait what we got

we're eating people oh no because it was

the people that the politicians that

made those decisions who got us where we

are right now right and so there's never

in my mind a question that if you give

somebody power they're GNA take that

power and want more if you're using AI

you wouldn't use it for the final

decision you would use it for all the

the minist trivia that happens between

the application being made and the point

where a presentation is made to a board

of some sort who would make the final

decision you're not removing people so

let's put it in sort of an athletic

analogous model we're talking a little

bit about analytics then you it's really

more about here are the analytics here

are the different uh metrics that we're

going to plug into this and now we're

going to hand it over to the GM or the

the managers or whoever it is that's

responsible for these things and it's a

tool to help them make more informed

decisions right because you know you're

all using the same data and the same

precedence there's nothing that all of a

sudden just presented itself so if it's

replicated over and over with the same

data within that same realm um that's

perfect application for AI but you don't

want to be completely dependent on AI

because it's hard to know the genealogy

of the decision meaning what exactly

went into the final determination that

the AI get out right so then that's

where you have your board who says okay

this is what the AI recommends we have

these additional comments to make on

additional concerns and then the board

makes the final decision but you

consolidate that review process from in

what in some cases could be years decade

you're you're talking about condensing a

bureaucratic process through this new

tool that allows you to make these

decisions at a much more rapid Pace as

opposed to just abdicating that the

computer goes don't rebuild the bridge

and you're like yes master no no Bridge

no Bridge yeah you you still want you

know some human intervention you need

some common sense and AIS can do a lot

of things but they're best with

repetitive things and they're best with

taking vast volumes of data and

information and applying those to

processes and so let the AI do what the

AI can do but leave the final decision

to people who are you know who

understand the context here's a $664,000

question then as the AI condenses that

you're talking about a great deal of

human leg work and and Sweat Equity that

goes into these things what happens to

that labor is is the speed of that worth

the cataclysm that you're going to have

in in White Collar you know in the way

that let's say uh

industrialization you know changed the

economy over a hundred years

globalization changed it over decades

but it had as we saw a devastating

effect for the manufacturing base does

AI devastate no white collar work but in

a very condensed form so if your job is

answering the question yes or no all the

time AI is going to have an impact right

if your job requires you to think AI

won't have much of an impact really so

yeah so in this particular case let's go

back to the NEPA type example somebody's

got to make sure the models getting all

the information and that it's structured

correctly and there's it's all data

entry we all become data entry not just

no it's not even just typing right it

takes intellectual capacity um so

somebody who understands what the goal

is somebody who's been doing this for

years has got to be able to input

feedback on everything that the models

collect and are trained on you don't

just assume the model knows everything

you want somebody to to check to to

grade their responses and make

Corrections and so while that model is

being developed and trained there's a

huge need for people to um contribute

value you know the better example is if

you want an artificial intelligence that

talks about Shakespeare and you know

spits out things about Shakespeare

somebody's got to teach it you know

contribute the Nuance things that you're

not going to find just from Reading

their books don't you think it's already

got I always get the sense that the AI

models have already sucked up whatever

15,000 years of human existence we have

and they've already moved on that I I

feel like the AI models are like what

else you got man what else you got songs

what do you got no it's exact opposite

right now here's the real problem I'm

glad you brought this up another great

question John Stewart Boom come on end

of year baby let's do this bam okay so

IP you've seen the New York Times and

others Sue different um creators of

large language models like open AI meta

Etc because they just automatically went

out and spidered and in input um their

text in their intellectual property into

their models intellectual property is

still owned by the Creator and so you're

not going to find the models being able

to just go out and get everything

everything that was on the internet up

to you know this minute whatever it is

that was openly available and you know

stuff that's added that's openly

available yes but imagine you want AI

cannot get past the pay wall is that

what I'm hearing I'm hearing that that

AI it gets to a place it go oh I can't

read this article my credit I'm not a

subscriber the AI is go where's my

credit

card no but think it in terms of

medicine you know and so you're MD

Anderson or your Stanford Medical or you

know pick all the different you know

UPMC and you have a doctor or a research

that's really good in this specialty

you're not going to just say to meta or

open AI or Google hey you just take it

for your medical models you just go

ahead and take it you're going to say no

I'll do my own I don't need you and I'll

I'll take my specialty let's just say my

specialty is on cagy and cancer I'm have

all these experts and I'm going to

create my own model I'll go out and you

know use an open source model that

spidered everything on that's open and

free on the internet but I'm going to

add all the expertise that I have and

all the expertise that I create in the

future so that it is specific to me and

I can charge for it or use it however I

deem fit and what's going to end up

happening is within medicine you know

some of the models will pay you know if

you pay the Mayo Clinic enough money

they'll let you have that stuff and

others will want to retain it as part of

their brand right on a bigger picture

there are going to be millions of models

it's right now we see it as open AI we

see it as Gemini meta whatever it is

these big foundational models but the

reality is there's going to be millions

of them John Stewart's going to have a

model Mark oh I've got I've got like

five of them in the backyard right now

I'm working on let's artificial

intelligence right let's use the flip

side of this so you you've got people

looking uh to to use these for analytics

or to shorten the bureaucratic space

between making decisions or to you know

increase productivity or

efficiency you know just recently we saw

the anger erupt in this country this

this young kid assassinates a a a

healthc care executive and underneath

that the big surprise is is the level of

anger the level of Sympathy for the kid

and the level of anger against these

algorithms that are now being deployed

not to make things more efficient but to

help them deny coverage or to not pay

certain things and that's the

counterweight is it not well yes or no

right I just did this big post on Blue

Scout M cubin on Blue Sky if you want to

read it I I don't even know how to log

onto it easy I know supposed to migrate

there I have no idea how to get on it

yeah it's actually a great platform just

download that app BL all right but in

any event the bigger question is why are

we putting insurance companies in that

role the the role of of denying I

thought that's pre-authorizations why

would why would anybody hire an

insurance company who tries to make

money by reducing um the amount they pay

out that's their interest why would we

ask them to do pre-auth ation that's our

whole that's the whole business model

that's what we're trying to get out of I

I I completely agree right but the whole

point is probably half the people who

are covered in this country the in

insurance companies are are involved but

they don't really act as insurance

companies well they're adversarial well

no what I'm saying is like for there are

50 million um lives covered by

self-insured um organizations from

companies to you know unions whatever it

may be and they use insurance companies

for their Network you know all the

hospitals they put together and for

their apps but they also use them to do

the

pre-authorizations and my question to

them has been over the past four or five

months has been why are you using

insurance companies for

pre-authorizations when you are the you

CEO of that Union or company are you

know basically the ones that make that

decision whether or not you're willing

to pay for it or not but there's so many

different ways that that money is sucked

out of that system you're talking about

you know money out of your paycheck to

pay a premium that has a deductible so

you're still paying let me TR your hard

when saying our our um Health it's truly

insane right let here there something

like was mindboggling to me I was almost

this many days old when I found this out

okay when you think about your

deductible your co-pay and your co-

insurance right what it is you have to

pay up to before right

in your co-pay a specific amount to see

a doctor or your Co Insurance like on

original Medicare where you have to pay

20% or some percentage of the total

that's right you know do you know who

accepts the default risk on all of that

I would assume the patient no the

hospitals and the doctors take that

credit

risk and they literally yes it's insane

but then why are patients going bankrupt

when they can't so that's what happens

so we're turning hospitals and doctors

into sub subprime lenders without assets

against them oh Jesus okay I I see where

you're going right so now play it out

you're a hospital when I talk to

hospitals a lot of them they have

default rates or 50 to 60% or more

depending on where the hospital is

located so now this Hospital half the

deductibles co-pays and co- insurance

that they are supposed to be paid by the

patient they don't collect on it so a

couple things happen Downstream from

there one they turn into like a a

mortgage servicer where they try to

collect it you know and it makes them

look bad they hate being put in that

position there's no upside you know

maybe you collect some money but on the

downside the patients hate you the every

the whole world hates you because of all

the patient debt and medical debt and

and um bankruptcies as a result but when

you can't collect them what do you do to

compensate for that lack of Revenue you

jack up your [ __ ] price right so

we're all subsidized in this system of

uh delinquency to to to some extent no

nobody it's just the hospitals accept

that risk and I guess you could say we

subsidize it if when you cash pay a

higher price well that's what I'm saying

if they're if they're jacking up their

prices and either insurance pays it or

you pay it that's subsidizing this much

larger default rate in a system but it

gets worse it gets worse and so now

these providers the hospitals and

doctors they negotiate with the big

insurance companies and it's fascinating

if you walk into a hospital to pay for

an MRI as an example and you say you

don't mention your insurance you just

say I want a cash price they'll probably

say it's $350 to $450 depending on where

you live that same hospital will

negotiate with what they call the buas

the big insurance companies right for

that same thing they'll negotiate a

price of

$2,000 what yeah so you would think that

big insurance company negotiating with

the hospital and insurance company

covers millions of lives they insure you

know deal with why would they negotiate

that if there a bulk thing to $100 why

would it be higher because the hospital

needs the insurance company as a sales

funnel to bring patients in so they can

you know pay their bills and the

insurance company wants that price to be

higher particularly for things like the

ACA because the ACA requires for all the

plans they cover that um they spend up

to 85% so

this how is this not collusion then if

if both sides need it to be higher

that's that's colluding on a certain

price and beyond that but by law it's by

law the way the ACA works so think about

this John so somebody who gets an

individual plan on the ACA say one of

the the bronze plans which is the least

effective right right and it has a

$99,000 deductible so this individual

can't afford much of premiums decides

they want a 9,000 deductible you know

who's truly subsidizing that deductible

the [ __ ] Hospital wow and when you

get your insurance or anybody get the

insurance from a big company and they

show you five six seven different plans

and one of them is a $1,500 deductible

but you're 25 you know and so you you

take the $5,000 deductible who takes on

that risk of the $1,500 versus the 5,000

the doctors in the hospitals but you

still pay the price on your credit score

and on a bankruptcy like yes now now

there's a limit like only if it's above

500 they changeed some of the rules and

for some of the the um lost money by the

hospital there's this thing called dish

payments that the government will give

the hospital to try to make up for it

but it doesn't but isn't the whole isn't

the whole [ __ ] system Mark isn't it

all especially with the ACA a bribe

isn't it a governmental bribe to to give

to hospitals and insurance companies to

say as a way of saying people with

pre-existing conditions have to be able

to get themselves some coverage the

whole thing is is almost almost a

trillion doll bribe and when you look at

the the levels of profits that are

rolling through these insurance

companies yeah clearly uh we find

ourselves in an unsustainable moment

clearly clearly but it's worse than that

because it's the government making the

determination of which insurance plans

that they approve for Medicare and

Medicare Advantage well that's when they

tried to

privatize Medicare I don't understand

you know with uh uh the satisfaction

most people had with Medicare now

they've gone to privatizing that that uh

uh Part D or whatever they they they

call it and that's starting to this

let's back up for a second because this

brings us to a very interesting point

that I want to ask you about all right

it seems to me that with all the checks

and balances within the government

legislative judicial executive all those

different things the one thing the

founders didn't really add into the

equation is Corporate power this idea

that there has to be an entity

that is large enough to in some ways be

a counterweight to unfettered the system

we've chosen for progress in money is

incredibly efficient at creating wealth

but it has a lot of collateral damage

yeah so here's here's the thing yes it

the government can work okay if it's an

efficient transparent Market if it's not

efficient and transparent even though

it's big and you would think it can

negotiate well it doesn't but it doesn't

because the lobbyists and the money and

the billionaires that are putting their

money uh uh to Lobby against the

government no government just isn't

smart enough sometimes to make the

obvious decision we want you we're only

going to do business with you Pharmacy

benefit manager if you publish us exact

prices and we're not going to allow you

to use rebates if you want to use

business do business with us because

we'll just go to the pass through pbms

right the government has choices they

just don't choose to make the obvious

and best choice and you wouldn't say

that big money uh influencing

politicians is the largest driver of

those bad decisions for sure yeah obious

yeah what it seems like there's no

innocent there's nobody with Clean Hands

in any of this right you know everybody

has the role so then the question if

Bernie was on here again to'd be like

well Single Payer Medicare for all

that's where we're going that that

that's that's what he would suggest and

I I I tend to agree with them or at

least a governmental system for all that

allows for private insurance out side of

it but the question is how do you get

there right right how do you get there

and who are the participants that are

making it work AI with a team of experts

AI would be better than the people we

have negotiating right now right because

every because we are in this form of

government with this Republic that we

have and there's so many influences and

so many you know um constituencies that

have to be you know appeased you're not

going to get an optimal system right and

so the only way to get through that is

to educate the people who have an

influence so you know for instance I I'm

going out there and talking to CEOs and

I'm saying look you

self-insure and you're hiring this

insurance company to do

pre-authorizations that only make your

life more miserable because your

employees are upset HR is upset when at

the end of the day you're paying for it

anyways but that's not how it's

incentivized like even that guy you know

the big thing about that guy that was

killed was he turned that company a

giant profit by putting in those

algorithms that were denying coverage

but who hired him to do that is the

question the question he got that

opportunity to do it and he's grabbing

all the money he can but who hired him

to do the pre-authorization process

that's the question people aren't asking

and that needs to be answered so when

you talk to like you've talked to uh uh

VC ramaswami he's he's on the Doge board

and elon's doing the Doge board what do

you think their mindset is about is

their mindset to go into government and

say look we need government to make

better decisions I think for a long time

people have felt that that feeling that

we're not getting value for the money

and that there's inefficiencies there I

think we look at it as a system that's

been co-opted and corrupted so what is

the mindset going in there is it a

Silicon Valley efficiency model because

government does have this responsibility

in a way that business never would for

people's well-being yeah it's to be

determined there's a couple elements

there number one is the deficit Elon and

others on both sides have rightfully

said it's a threat right it's a problem

but the reality is even with interest

rates coming down you think it's still

no see that that's exactly where I was

going because right even if interest

rates come down a little bit interest

rates are the majority of the ongoing

annual expense and interest rates will

come down some but they're not going to

come all the way down because that will

inflate the economy again and create

other issues and create more inflation

and Donald Trump I don't think is going

to want to see that during his term

which is why Elon at one point on on

Twitter someone said you know we could

see a collapse in the first two years

and um Elon said most likely or

something to that effect a collapse of

what of the economy of the economy

because if the economy collapses like we

saw during covid what happened to

interest rates interest rates collapsed

as well sure I mean no no economic

activity you know that everyone's going

to want that but in 2008 the government

collapsed the interest rates so that the

people at the top could could get that

free money I think well whatever it is

whatever it is that's the only way

you're going to have a dramatic impact

on the debt well let's look at it this

way let's flip it to you know there's a

lot of people and it's you know this

this modern monetary uh policy M yeah

where they talk about that the it

doesn't matter because and and I tend to

be sympathetic to this you can print

money and why are we selling this debt

to other people anyway why don't we buy

it ourselves I mean it's all kind of a

shell game to begin with why not make it

easier on ourselves to pay that down

through the mint yeah just playing more

money but now all of a sudden more money

is in the economy and the economy

reinflates and you know it you you start

then having to you think mmt does not

you're not a proponent of that no I I

actually I I read the books and you know

I talked to the people behind it when

interest rates were zero or near zero it

made a 100% sense when interest rates

skyrocketed to where they are now it

doesn't make sense because even if you

just printed all that money the

government can't just print money they

have to borrow money to you know even in

a fractalized environment there has to

be some reason to do it it's not like

there's a printing press that just goes

bur br br br brr I'm going to blow your

mind here we've created this new market

of of cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and all

these other things that kind of has in

some respects out of nothing made

something what if that was utilized to

bring down those more uh Troublesome

aspects of deficits because we do need

uh government to spend to help stimulate

certain things to uh stabilize people to

do things that real value in people's

lives sure but there's still you know

debits and credits still have to balance

and I'm not I'm not the economist who

can give you detailed analysis of all

this stuff they by the way they can't

either they just do it in a really like

smug shitty way but I just look at her

just you know as a business guy and when

if we were just you still got to balance

things right and so we in order to print

that money we got to borrow it from

someone even if it's ourselves and that

inflates the balance sheet and that

creates other problems with inflation

right because think of it this way John

look at all Zimbabwe and all these other

third world countries that tried to do

the exact same thing but that's

different they were coming out of a

place from uh very little stability I

mean I think no it's not even about

stability what undergirds our financial

system is the stability of our political

system and if you start to undermine

that stability I think it's by by paying

that off you continue to reinforce the

infrastructure and stability of your

system which creates uh uh in and of

itself I mean so much of this is

perception yeah but beon tell you like

look what's happening in Argentina right

now okay so Malle goes in there and he's

got that more uh libertarian he's got

you know four dogs named after uh hyek

and whoever other economists are going

that he goes and he dives into uh an

austerity yeah he they plunge their

their inflation rate but drives them

into a recession

and creates a political crisis and more

poverty Etc right and he probably argued

the opposite but still I understand well

if you're going to print a lot of money

you are going to have a lot of inflation

and that you know again I'm not the

economist but I don't see that as being

a significant positive I think you know

if you have 26 30 50% inflation your

stability goes out the door even if you

did a one-time reset like you you looked

at it like this is not going to be an

ongoing thing but you know as Krugman

would say I've got a trillion dollar

coin and it turns out I'll just flip

that thing over there and we're we've

cleaned it out a little bit and we're g

to give ourselves a little bit more of a

fresh start I don't think that works but

again maybe there's an angle there where

that I don't know and you won't you know

because I know you love to spend your

time thinking about this and it's always

and I I thank you so much uh we probably

went off the rails on crypto and I've

learned an awful lot uh you still don't

consider yourself a viable political

player no no right and having that

experience do you think being on the

trail for the Harris campaign really

dissuaded you of that ever as a

possibility no I loved it right it

wasn't that it's my family I mean look

look at all the [ __ ] they're doing to

that they did to JD Vance I don't want

my kids hear me about me [ __ ] a couch

you know or you know what El was that's

really a u issue though more than

anything it was a nice couch it was a

nice couch too I took it to dinner you

know listen man do you really think that

as a viable political candidate you

would take more [ __ ] than you take today

I mean there's no question the amount of

[ __ ] you take today just getting

involved with the Harris campaign was

extraordinary I mean they went after you

like crazy as as everybody look I I take

it just from being on [ __ ] basic

cable like uh it's

extraordinary uh the reach of that now

yeah I mean but it was mostly on Twitter

I'm fine with that but but it's if they

go after my kids and my family and

dealing with that my kids are 15 18 and

21 now and and more importantly that

that I want to be around them that's key

reason why I sold a big chunk of the

Mavs why I got out of Shark Tank Shark

Tank films June and September my kids

get out of school in June go back in

September I miss birthdays I mean that's

[ __ ] up and it it bothered me to no

end and you know like like our

conversations I get into this stuff I

always want to you know going even back

to on and thec there's a difference

between just deficit reduction which

seems to be their their focus and

problem solving in between there is

efficiency right you always want to be

more efficient with whatever tools you

know people or AI whatever it takes you

want to be more efficient but the

question becomes how do you solve

problems and what problems are you start

trying to solve because at the end of

the day that's what we're trying to give

our taxpayer money to the government for

to solve problems that we need solve but

that's the kind of thinking though

that's so crucial because there's two

sides of the coin one is propagate

spending from the government that

doesn't consider you know I had a

conversation with a deputy secretary of

defense where we were talking about the

$850 billion budget and you would have

thought like I asked what underwear she

was wearing like her response to being

questioned about the lack of uh uh

passing an audit on $850 billion do it

was multiple times multiple times just

you know went like how dare you do you

even know what an audit is and I'm like

I thought I did but maybe I don't but

the arrogance of it was wild so the idea

of connecting spending to Value but the

flip side of that is the idea of cutting

spending with no discernment for Value

either it's one thing to say I'm getting

rid of the Department of Education it's

another thing to say here are the

aspects of the Department of Education

that are viable here's the aspects that

are wasteful hopefully do you think it

will be that considered a process or

will it be just a giant Reaper that goes

through here's what I think happens and

this is just my guest I think they go in

trying to have a big PR impact right

we're cutting this and we're cutting

that and they'll find the things that

have always been um have always had

notoriety you know the $1,200 toilet

type things you know the

$800,000 you know mice experiment

whatever it may be and we'll chop those

and then from there they'll have to

actually think you know they'll have to

actually dig in and they'll have to find

ways to measure what they're evaluating

and that's going to be the challenge

efficacy yeah yeah because how can you

determine if it's efficient or not or if

you've improved efficiency unless you

measure and you come up with benchmarks

that everybody agrees on because they're

going to be taking money away from

Republican districts as well or or maybe

they won't I mean maybe this will be

another one of those like how how can we

[ __ ] New York how can we how can we kill

that well yeah but they come to midterms

it's a whole different conversation and

they I think they understand that

they've going got two years to do

something absolutely and it's already

listen it's a it's as tight a squeeze in

the House of Representatives as you

could ever imagine I think they've got a

little breathing room in the Senate but

that's designed in such an undemocratic

way that uh it can present a difficulty

to begin with uh but Mark Cuban my God

I'm gonna I know you're busy man I'm

going to let you go next time you're in

town you got to come and and and let me

uh get some FaceTime at a pizza joint

learn more about all this crypto and

everything else uh I appreciate it so

much uh you're our end ofe go-to and I

can't thank you enough as always really

wonderful to talk to you thanks for

having me on John I love it I love our

conversations great questions as always

good to see you brother you too man take

care talk to you

later all right final final pod

conversation of the year uh we are

joined of course by uh our great

producer Lauren Walker Britney mic and

Jillian Spear and we we what a what a

good first date not even a first date

that was that might have been a third

date with me and Cuban I think did we

consummate every first date somebody

brings up crypto that's the

world definitely on mine with all the

finance Bros are you saying that that

that date was a cliche Jan is that no

it's just it was a very modern date I it

was I guess I'm looking for a man in

finance boy did you find him boy did and

and and boy did I find him do you

understand any of that by the way like I

I hated to have him walk me through it

like I'm a crypto kindergartner but it

was helpful for me to sort of

understand what the the the idea of it

is and it's it really does seem to be

just an agreed upon the idea that it's

been agreed on we've agreed upon that

this has value we've agreed upon a

system in which it will be uh traded and

we're going to keep the Innovation going

are you guys in the crypto are you no

are you finance Bros it's gonna be I

have Beanie Babies does that count see

how is it not Beanie Babies is my I'm

with you John where to me it still seems

like a solution in search of a problem

and what Mark was saying about you know

you're in a foreign country and somebody

needs to send you money it's like

bank transfer me I'll go to an ATM I

have a credit card like I don't know

what sums of money we're talking about I

don't know if this is like a this is

like a Liam niss in Taken situation but

I I just like I can't find a use for it

jillan you're you're dead on right and I

swear you and thank God I didn't go

there but I was like you mean like

Western Union like a you you go there in

a telegram and you tell a friend

Telegraph me a cashier check for

$150 uh but it really is uh one of those

things where at its heart and I

understand that it's popular but you

really are like it's kind of a mass

illusion and then when he starts talking

about your you know gold then you're

like oh the whole [ __ ] system is a

mass illusion and maybe it's nice that

they're kind of creating a new one and

maybe that you know supplants it or just

injects more wealth uh into what can

only be considered the bro podcast World

maybe that's business is booming exactly

what he was saying about AI really stood

out to me the fact that no one in the

white collar world's going to be

affected by yeah I don't AI but it's

just not true and it's already happening

and uh I was just thinking back to back

at the problem we had talked to someone

who uh works at a helpline for people

with eating disorders and her group

tried to unionize because they been

overworked and they got replaced by Ai

and when they called in had a helpline

and when they called in uh the AI that

the place had started using was not

working properly and within a few

interactions was suggesting calorie

counting and that was years ago so [ __ ]

you you understand how quickly this all

develops I know friends who have lost

jobs you know it's already happening

it's so crazy I feel like so many of

these tech people they'll point to these

historical examples of technology coming

along and people losing their jobs and

how they were then redistributed into

like other parts of the economy and it's

like yeah I get that but you're also the

same people arguing that this is the

most this is the biggest technological

innovation since fire so you don't get

to have it both ways where you're like

this is the biggest thing since fire but

also ATMs they didn't ruin bank tellers

do you think fire when when fire came

out people are like I'm going to lose my

heating

job I remember I'm the guy who walks

around and rubs everybody's hands now

fire is gonna [ __ ] it all up for me and

those people never recover John well

even that like the dystopian aspect of

like oh yeah no you got to plug into AI

whether or not to fix the road and

you're

like there's an accountability in

government that well it'll be a tool to

help it yeah you're right it's I I think

they haven't quite figured it out and

there's I think when you are on that

Cutting Edge of innovation there is an

exuberance irrational and otherwise that

comes along with it and it's hard not to

get swept up in that enthusiasm I'm

assuming that that's what uh you know

angel investor meetings look like but at

some level stepping back and going like

hey uh ju just so we're clear here

you're saying that the computer controls

the entire hospital and and decides like

what oxygen to turn on and turn off

through Analytics because it is that

algorithm is what was denying everybody

Insurance absolutely you want some

listener questions let's hit them man

this end of year come at me bro whatever

whatever they got man I'm handling it

we're we're getting out of here we'll

have a few weeks to recover let's

[ __ ] do this all right this one's

come at me bro yeah um John it seems

like you're projecting a little bit what

do you think you did wrong this

year oh

wow that you mean they're asking for

self-reflection perhaps well you guys

know this I I always you know I I get

annoyed at myself for being like a

little high horsey and and you know you

get a little of the sanctimony in there

so uh

I try to try to relax sometimes on the

certainty of my opinions you know and

and I can you know and the contrarian

thing I could like I really do feel like

if threw me in a room uh with somebody

who wanted to argue AI was going to

destroy us all uh i' I'd be the guy

who'd be like it will save us and then

you throw me in a room with a guy who's

like it'll save us and I'll be like it

will destroy us like that's I I think I

have a [ __ ] Fiddler on the Roof

problem which is that on the one hand

but on the other hand uh so yeah I've

I've done a lot wrong this year but I've

had an awful lot of fun doing so that's

all that matters all right what else

what else we got anything other than our

lovely guest that we've just had on um

who's your favorite billionaire and why

oh

wow a favorite billionaire you

know I'm trying I wonder if I know more

than one like I've I've talked to him

I've talked to Elon I don't know I'm

trying to think if there's another

billionaire I probably do know them I

just don't know you know I would say

Seinfeld he's actually pretty close to

probably being a billionaire and funny

as [ __ ] he might be the funniest

billionaire okay yeah and he does he

generally doesn't try and Chip us or he

doesn't try and like do other

billionaire [ __ ] to us so I I I give him

credit on that well Steve Cohen just did

something really nice for you oh yes and

he's listening waiting for you that is

my favorite billionaire I didn't even

think of that he he got me Juan SoDo for

for my birthday yeah wealth wealth

redistribution yeah I don't know I've

met him a couple of times I met him once

we did a uh boy this ties together the

whole thing we did a a charity dinner at

uh it was standup for Heroes and they

bid on different things and one of the

things was you could bid on a a dinner

with uh myself and uh Jim Gaffigan and

Seinfeld and Louis CK pre uh thing so

Steve Cohen bid on it and normally when

people bid on something like that they

never [ __ ] they never like it's just

a way for them to just give the money

yeah Cohen was like you're coming to

Rayos so he he he made us go and I

remember we went and it ended up for

obvious reasons uh being Steve Seinfeld

gavagan and me and uh I remember making

the joke uh to to Jerry saying geez I I

can't believe the lents that Louie went

to to get out of this dinner

[Laughter]

uh but that's yeah that was that was my

experience there yeah good to have a

billionaire uh owner of a team you like

well um that actually ties into this

next question all right let's bring it

um how many World Series do the Mets

have to win to consider Juan sto deal a

good investment

any if you can just give us five years

of good baseball you don't understand

the Mets are not this isn't the Yankees

of like a tradition of 26 championships

and every Year we're in the playoffs

like in we come out of we suck and then

every now and again come out of nowhere

like suck suck suck championship in 69

uh got to the World Series I think in 73

but uh did make it and weren't very good

that year had to a miraculous covery uh

86 sucked suck suck suck suck then all

of a sudden 84 85 86 they were good

never got back there again we're good

through like a little bit of the 90s got

to the World Series again in 2000 we're

not a history of like steady accompl

mhm so if this dude just comes in here

and raises the Baseline level of our

team to non I used to take the kids to

the last game of the season every year

uh at at uh City Field because you had

the run of the

place there's no that's what I'm gonna

miss I'm gonna miss cheap baseball

tickets in New York do you think though

the B do you think he'll raise the the

the prices I just think more people will

go like I could go on subhub and get

like like 15 bucks not bad seats really

that's a really good deal I always wait

till the last minute to buy tickets to

the Mets games because people people

have gotten depressed at a certain point

and that they're just giving them away

they'll pay you yeah to go there all

right what's the better holiday

Christmas or Hanukkah oh that's just not

even we're not even in the same ballpark

that's that's like when Tracy you know

when I got married and we know we had

kids we're like what are we going to do

she's like oh we're going to celebrate

all the holidays but she knew how like I

I I was about to get swamped I'm

literally saying to the kids like all

right everybody who wants to light a

candle you know she's just like look at

all the presents under the tree when

when there's little kids around like

when my kids were little like Maggie

with elf on a shelf I will forever be

grateful we once got one uh and we got a

stewardess on a plane to we had brought

Maggie elf on a shelf we were traveling

somewhere and the stewardess came out of

the cockpit going does anyone know who

this is and we have a picture of

Maggie's face she's just

going like she the the magic of it

yeah can't I mean I thought she'd be

like how did that narc find me

here you know at six she was not dark

she did not she didn't have a stash so

there was no like that's that's that's a

fine point uh but you guys uh I hope you

have a great holiday but let me just say

boy the work that you guys have done and

I hope that the listeners understand uh

that I have the part like I I stand on

the shoulders of real workers like you

guys put together such phenomenal work

this year and allowed me to just really

you know what's the best part of it I

think because you all are so uh diligent

and thorough and curious it it allows me

to have that backing that I can just be

present in the conversations which is

the best gift for somebody who's

interviewing somebody is to feel like uh

the work that's been done for you is so

uh thorough and and interesting that you

can just then plop it out and and let

the conversation and let the

conversation flow so thank you guys uh

you John so much and enjoy your holiday

what are the socials Twitter we weekly

show pod Instagram threads and Tik Tok

we are weekly Show podcast drum roll

please we are on Blue Sky weekly Show

podcast that's what uh uh cubin was

talking about the Blue Sky there exactly

we're on it and then you can like And

subscribe our YouTube channel the weekly

show with John Stewart boom all right

kids uh lead producer Lauren Walker

producer Britney mic video editor and

engineer Rob vah uh audio editor and

engineer Nicole boy and to the two of

them top [ __ ] shelf uh you guys have

been crushing it all year and Rob

congrats on the the baby's first uh

holiday enjoy that uh researcher and

Associate producer Jillian Spear and as

always our executive producers Chris

McShan Katie gray that is uh all for the

weekly show pod 2024 we will see you

guys uh on the flip side on 2025 and uh

thanks again for

everything

[Music]

boy the weekly show with John Stewart is

a Comedy Central Podcast it's produced

by Paramount audio and bus Boy

Productions

[Music]