“Just Ask” Is the #1 Career Skill (Pay, Promotions, Power)

just ask. The worst that can happen is that you get rejected, but what's the best case scenario?

We have to teach our daughters, too.

Yes.

Because, you know, you sort of start to see that girls when they go through puberty, they start to sort of pull back. And this is when we need to teach

back. And this is when we need to teach them like, no, this is actually when you need to speak up.

One of the only times I asked for a pay raise was when I saw some of my team members that I had hired and were several levels below me were being compensated more than I was. Who loved

you better than you deserved.

What? That's so deep.

I'm Sheree. I'm Jean.

I'm Mandy. And we're the Tiger Sisters.

We are your Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters. And we're a top 10 business podcast bringing late night sister talk meets boardroom strategy.

Many of us have used or at least heard of Match.com, Tinder, Hinge, OKCid. What

seems simple on the surface is actually a massive ecosystem of love, data, monetization, and human psychology.

Mandy Ginsburgg helmed Matchgroup during a pivotal era, scaling from a strong dating brand portfolio into the business behind how millions connect. She's

navigated acquisition, culture, growth, and vulnerability in very public ways.

Today, we dig into how she played at the intersection of technology, intimacy, growth, and authenticity, and what she's learning now about reinvention. Mandy,

welcome to the Tiger Sisters podcast.

Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. So on the Tiger Sisters podcast, we say that we talk about money, power, and love. And so today, we're really

and love. And so today, we're really excited to dig in to our two favorite things, love, and data, and how to use data when it comes to love. So dating is

both timeless and everchanging. How did

you and your team anticipate cultural or generational shifts before it showed up in the data? I think that the the fundamental issue that we were facing is

that as young people would sort of go to less bars, meet less in churches, would not meet in college and date, you know, all of a sudden they were in sort of the workforce and people are lonely and

trying to figure out how to connect and and this was for the most part match.com in the early days was for second time around with a divorce rate that's over 50%. These are people who are like who

50%. These are people who are like who have little kids and have busy careers and there's just no way to meet. And so

that was really the first big audience that came online um probably in the early 2000s and then sort of the rest is history especially as like young groups came in with Tinder and we are now

seeing this huge proliferation of of of dating. But to your question around like

dating. But to your question around like how did you identify trends and opportunities? Um at the end of the day

opportunities? Um at the end of the day this was like a highly analytical product company. Yeah. Um, it's funny

product company. Yeah. Um, it's funny because at one point we had these daily standups which talked about the metrics of the business. And at one point I'm sort of a marketer at heart, but one of

the marketing people said, "All we talk about is numbers and we don't really talk about the people." I'm like, "Well, that's terrible. These are people we're

that's terrible. These are people we're talking about. So if the site goes down,

talking about. So if the site goes down, this is like people that might not meet." And so we really try to make sure

meet." And so we really try to make sure that not only do we look at sort of the data and the trends, but not forget the fact that like these are people who've got their hopes up.

Okay. So now Mandy, talking a little bit more about your own experience. So you

stepped down as CEO of Match, which was a 20 billion company for health and personal reasons, which was obviously a massive, massive decision. You've talked

about it before. So what was going through your mind at that point? And

what did it teach you about sort of like leadership and your personal limits and the the combination of of all the things that led you to make that decision?

Well, it was such a strange time. So,

I'd been at the company for almost 15 years at that point.

Yeah. um by 2019 2020 and in 2019 at the end of the year which also we now we at the time we did not know but that's when CO started because CO was just sort of

heating up in early 2020. We didn't

really know what was going on back then.

So weirdly I resigned and then my best friend and um successor took the company over during co and she's like I can't believe you leave me and I have to run the business out of my kitchen. Yeah.

So, um, so anyway, you're like, I taught you everything I know.

Yeah, a lot of changes. Everything you

know.

Yeah, it it was a, um, wild time. But in

2019 in Dallas, Texas, where I live, there was a tornado that hit a thousand houses, um, in Dallas, which is a little strange. Um, and we got a direct hit on

strange. Um, and we got a direct hit on our house and about half of our house was destroyed. And we were at the house

was destroyed. And we were at the house at the time and I think I had earnings the next week or maybe 10, I think it was the next week.

Yeah.

And it was a lot. Um and I did it and and then during that time my doctor had called me about recalling breast

implants after a mistctomy and it was associated with breast cancer and I just didn't see the message didn't

get the message and I got a uh terrible email that said like we're firing you as a patient and so I was like what does that mean? And I called and they said,

that mean? And I called and they said, "We've been trying to reach you for like months and you just you're not responding to our phone calls, you're not responding to our emails." I was like, "Sorry, my life's a little busy."

Yeah.

And so the combination, I think, of the tornado and the hell scare, I was like, I maybe I should rethink everything. So,

and at the time, which is so hard, I think professional athletes think about this too.

How do you figure out if you are going to leave, when to leave, like when's the right time? And people always stay too

right time? And people always stay too long. Um, and the business was going so

long. Um, and the business was going so well, um, at the time. And the woman who was running the business with me, her name was Char Dubet. She's a brilliant,

brilliant leader. And she, she and I had

brilliant leader. And she, she and I had been like tag teaming this business forever. In fact, when I became CEO, I

forever. In fact, when I became CEO, I asked the board if we could be co-CEOs, and they said no. So, I was like, why not? We run it together anyways. Um, and

not? We run it together anyways. Um, and

the business was really, I mean, she it was in great hands with her. And so I talked to her of course and talked to the board at the time and so she sort of swooped in and there was just zero

transition. So it was it was the timing

transition. So it was it was the timing was great. I didn't know quite how great

was great. I didn't know quite how great it was because a month or maybe six weeks later the whole world shut down. Um so that was not planned and weirdly that's when

things really started ramping up in the dating category because people were stuck at home and lonely and so there was a lot more activity that was happening. And so as I was transitioning

happening. And so as I was transitioning out, the business was weirdly kind of on fire in a good way.

Um and then you know there's been more challenges sort of um subsequently but it was it was it ended up being a great time and I think honestly there was no none of the investor community no one

thought twice about it because things were going so well and there was so much continuity in the leadership.

Yeah. At that point, was it like a like an agonizing hard decision or you're like, "This is exactly what I need to do right now and it was clear to you that there you had other priorities that were

much more important or taking the forefront."

forefront." You know, I I think that I think I had to listen to myself and instinctively I'm like, I think it's time. The other

thing, too, is I I really was worried about I've been at it a long time. Am I

gonna be the person or the team that comes up with the, you know, innovation for the next big growth? And

now in retrospect, I have a different view on that. But at the time, I was like, okay, old dog, old tricks. Like,

shouldn't we bring in new fresh thinking and innovation into the business?

Because ultimately we we saw that we we really did disrupt ourselves time and time again. And so we, you know, was

time again. And so we, you know, was like, am I the person that's going to do enough disrupting over the next two, three, five, seven years. I think the

biggest asset I had in looking back at as a CEO was um and I did play very serious sports and I loved so I played serious soccer. I played I played Yeah,

serious soccer. I played I played Yeah, I played for for Berkeley and I loved being part of a team and I was never the best player. I was ever the fastest

best player. I was ever the fastest player, but I love seeing people succeed and I do I really do have a genuine curiosity for people and I I like to see people succeed. But building community

people succeed. But building community is actually a real skill and some people have it, some people don't. So you think about your friends, you're like you're like 10 friends, who's the one person that can just like plop down anywhere in the world and they would have like, you

know, friends and community and a life within like 30 days.

Um, and I don't think I actually knew that I could do that until I did it.

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Welcome to the Tiger Sisters Fam. And

now, back to the show. I'd love to transition and talk more about um your position on boards. What has been the

biggest shift from moving from your operating role into more of a board leadership at companies similar to how you've how you've been on boards like

Uber and Thread Up?

Well, I think as an oper I mean at the end of the day I'm like I'm an operator.

I'm I'm a marketing person. I'm an

operator and I like to get involved um in the details.

And you think that's what makes you like a strong board member?

Well actually no. I have it's really like it's the opposite. So, and and a really smart board chair told me once, you know, the difference between um being an operator and a board member is

you have to be um instead of like fingers in and nose in, you've got to sort of fingers out, nose in. And um and that's a muscle that I hadn't I mean, first of all, it's so funny because

sometime sometimes like especially for more startups or smaller companies, I I just want to be like, "No, no, no.

Actually, I'm not just giving you advice. Just do what I say." And people

advice. Just do what I say." And people won't do what you say necessarily. they

just will listen and hopefully um take your advice. So it it is different. I I

your advice. So it it is different. I I

will tell you and and now that I've been on so many boards over the course of time and you sort of see the pattern recognition of like great board members who can provide real sort of insight and help and

direction and also knowing when and how and where to engage at the board level because there's some you know board businesses that are doing like great

um I was on the board of J Penney which seems like an anomaly but but um during a bankruptcy so that we had to get heavily involved and we had a CEO leave that we had to um find a new CEO. So

that's where like the board work is actually very um hands-on.

Yeah, it must have been fascinating.

Um it was fascinating. It's a hundred-y old company at the time. I was running Match too. So you the dynamics between

Match too. So you the dynamics between like how what we were dealing with a company going through bankruptcy that's 100 years old and a brand that was very Americana and this business that was growing by,

you know, two, three, four times. I

mean, it was just I I it was like whiplash going from one board meeting to another.

Um my like nerdy comment is like you lived the case study. Like you actually there's so many case studies about what happened with J. Penney, like you were in it.

Yeah. And it was just such a I mean, frankly, one of the main reasons is the board members at the time convinced me it was in my backyard, so I didn't have to get on a plane to go. But it was it was fascinating. And it was also um I

was fascinating. And it was also um I learned a lot. Apparently, I was pretty good at uh going through a bankruptcy. I

had firms calling me up and saying, "We have another company going through bankruptcy. Can you I was like, "No,

bankruptcy. Can you I was like, "No, absolutely not. I had no way. This is

absolutely not. I had no way. This is

not Yeah. Um but but I will say I never had aspirations to, Funny enough, I never had aspirations to be a board member.

I'm not even sure if I had aspirations to be a CEO to be honest. Maybe I should say that out loud for both. Um uh I just I mean I like it I can't say it just

happened because it was a lot of like hard work and a lot of grit and determination, resilience, all the stuff that and and I I've now dissected and thought a lot about like how did I get

where I got but um but I will tell you from a board standpoint my first board was a company called care.com which now um is part of

Interactive Corp, which was my old parent company. um we were part of IC

parent company. um we were part of IC match group was but anyway uh I had met the founder at a conference like the one we're at today and um she and I stayed

friends and I had a board reach out to me a company reached out to me about being on the board and I asked her advice she says no no no just join my board and that was my first board and so which is funny because I've met a lot of

people through that board and now as a result that was why I'm on another one of my boards Thread Up is because the chairwoman was on the board of care.com with me. Um, so anyway, so all these

with me. Um, so anyway, so all these things like these connections become really important and I've invested in a lot of these friendships and relationships over the years. But

anyway, I thought like I I wanted to learn I wanted to be on one board because I wanted to learn like if I'm going to spend more and more time engaging with the board, then I got to

learn what is it like being um in a boardroom and presenting to a board. And

so that was sort of my first fora. Um,

and then over time, um, frankly, like I thought I'm not going to join any boards. I'm going to go to Florence, eat

boards. I'm going to go to Florence, eat a lot of pasta for a year, and then probably jump back into operating. And,

um, and I ended up just, you know, more and more opportunities came my way that I had a hard time saying no to, which I also established as a weakness of mine.

But, but they're super interesting boards. And I I mean, I don't regret any

boards. And I I mean, I don't regret any of them. And I think that and they're at

of them. And I think that and they're at different stages and different size companies and different sort of consumer um uh offerings and so it's been um

fascinating and as we talked about it sort of keeps me um a breast and learning especially when it comes to technology innovation AI how companies

are changing fast um and I think in what the in my context that I see can have a very positive meaningful impact on user experience. M yeah one

thing that I've heard about boards is that a lot of times there they when you look at the composition of board people try to create a board that has people in specific roles and I guess like each

board member usually has kind of like a superpower that they're bringing to the table that is unique to them. Do you

feel like boards kind of approach you or ask you to join for a specific set of skills that you bring or is it more so just your overall like operating prowess and experience? Like how do you think

and experience? Like how do you think about that?

Well, I mean at the time so when I was leaving well when I was still at match D who is the CEO of Uber reached out and we were at kind of sister companies

because he was Expedia so you know Barry Diller he worked with Barry Diller for a long time and Match Group was part of Barry Diller's empire and so I knew him through that loosely. I didn't know him that well,

loosely. I didn't know him that well, but he was really at the time looking to evolve the board because this is he, you know, I I think at the time Travis was still on the board when I was interviewing because I think I

overlapped maybe one board meeting with him, but he was really looking for people who were um operators, but not there's a lot of great operators on the

board at um at Uber and a lot of CEOs um existing and previous CEOs, but there weren't a lot of consumer, you know, digital consumer consumer um exper people who had digital consumer

experience had subscription experience which with Uber 1 they've now have a pretty significant footprint when it comes to subscription and so um so that

he sort of said it would be great for me to have you know another digital operator on the board who understands customer acquisition who understands retention who understands all the dynamics you've been dealing with

and so anyway that's how I joined that board and for um for Universal Music Group which is um been wild cuz I know nothing about the music industry.

Yeah.

But I know a lot about subscription and um and they you know they they like Arms Dealer. They have all the incredible

Dealer. They have all the incredible music and relationships with the artists through the record labels and they work with Spotify which is a subscription

business. And so again um I think that

business. And so again um I think that that experience has been really helpful because you know for 15 years I spent a lot of time understanding consumer consumer subscription and then the other

thing too is over time which um you know when you're on boards and you're on different committees there's expertise you develop and I've spent a lot of time

thinking about equity compensation executive compensation so I I spend quite a bit of time on the governance side on on um thinking about and frankly

it's more of that it's not just best and best-in-class and sort of best practices when it comes to compensation. There's a

lot of psychology that is involved when it comes to executive compensation. And

so I'm not a psychologist but there is a lot like truly understanding people and what motivates and drives them and makes them tick is

important part of that process I think.

Wait, can we get Can you share a little bit? How do you think about like what

bit? How do you think about like what are the different components that are important and what are the different like driving psychological factors that you have to take into account?

Well, I mean this is a really good example. You know, um risk tolerance is

example. You know, um risk tolerance is so individual specific. Okay. And so, um and I've seen over the course of my career people that are big risk takers

that want to sort of, you know, shoot high for like high risk, high returns.

And there's other people that are like, I I I don't want the risk. And so one of the things that we introduced at um at match at the time, and now it's changed,

but we gave people that, this is a while ago, but we gave people the choice between an option and an RSU. With

option, there's like higher risk, higher reward potentially with an restricted stock unit. There's less risk, but it's

stock unit. There's less risk, but it's a little bit more, it feels a little bit more cashlike. And so um but we gave

more cashlike. And so um but we gave people a choice and so and it was really interesting because then people could make their own decisions and they can manage their own risk. And so these are things that we've now introd I've

introduced at um other companies too. It

just it's just tools to help people make decisions based on where their own sort of psychology and relationship with money is.

I love that it's giving people more options and more I guess autonomy to like make a decision that's right for them in their life. Yeah. And and

frankly most humans are not big risk takers.

So we I I mean it's given the choice most people will choose less risky Yeah. less risky outcomes.

Yeah. less risky outcomes.

And then when it comes to executive compensation, is it more so like someone who opts into a bigger equity package versus like a larger upfront like cash

pay? Is that kind of the the trade-off?

pay? Is that kind of the the trade-off?

I I think like with all I mean look it's with all boards and it's with all investors it's all around just making sure that you're aligned to performance and so um you can give people huge pay

packages but it has to be aligned to huge value creation and so I think that you know I I've seen I've seen

people who are incredible and drive the most impact to a company not make as much money as they should and I've seen people make a ton of money that are not that valuable um or as

valuable as money that they made. And so

getting compensation right is is never going to be perfect. You have to sort of try to get it mostly right.

Um but I do think that you know really figuring out how to align people with ultimately shareholder return or investor return. Well, and then now that

investor return. Well, and then now that I think of it, this is something that you've been on the forefront of and sort of like driving this your entire career because you led the sort of pay equity um what do you call it like program at

match?

We did an audit which was you know is it was so interesting. I went to a um I think it was like a fortune a women's fortune conference and there was I think I think it was like Salesforce did a pay audit

and and I think they were the first company in like the B2B SAS world to ever talk about pay audits. This was I mean this is probably 13 14 years ago.

It was so long ago and you know compensation was something I thought a lot about.

What we're talking about is like executive compensation and how to structure it but like I wanted to make sure that within the organization at match and you have to understand when I first started at match group

I started out running a tiny little business. It was a $25 million business

business. It was a $25 million business called chemistry.com. And so there's 25

called chemistry.com. And so there's 25 people oops there's 25 people at chemistry and then I was asked to take over the match.com business. It was

about 250 million in revenue at the time. It's tiny business. I think our

time. It's tiny business. I think our our internal value of the business was like 600 million. I mean it was just it was small relative to what it ultimately became.

Um but I realized um that well the reason I thought a lot about it is because there's one woman on our team.

She's amazing. She was a PM.

She was um a immigrant. her parents um came from Asia and one of the most talented um product marketing people I'd

known. Extremely diligent, very

known. Extremely diligent, very analytical, but she often would underestimate herself and would certainly never ask for money,

just not it wasn't in her personal DNA.

It wasn't in her like cultural DNA, which she she and I talked about like over time. And so, um, I, Sh and I,

over time. And so, um, I, Sh and I, who's the woman I talked to you guys about, this partner I worked with for a long time who became the CEO after me, she and I spent a lot of time making

sure that just because and we saw often that men would ask for money and bound their fist on the table more than women.

And so, um, I grew up with a mother that said, "Open up your mouth and ask if you want something." And so I I did I get I

want something." And so I I did I get I got that sort of constant training as like open up your mouth and ask. And so

and I was fine hearing no because my mom would often say no.

And um and so but but I I knew that most people didn't like money and asking for money comes with a lot of anxiety for some people. Yeah.

people. Yeah.

And so we spent a lot of time making sure that as we looked at pay bands and looked at people that we were really paying people based on the contribution to the business. And so we did that kind of from the beginning. And so I

inherently knew that we we had every year compensation we had taken that to account and and taken into account the male female dynamic that we were seeing.

And we did it there's a lot of women at the top because you know I hired them.

And so we, you know, was sort of in our DNA and so we did the audit. Um I made them run it twice because there was real pay equity um based on bands between males and females. And I didn't believe

it. M

it. M um but it it was right. Um and then we actually did find an anomaly weirdly I think in the accounting department at the time because

um the the me women were paid lower than the men. I was like how how did that

the men. I was like how how did that happen? And what happened is women had

happen? And what happened is women had been there a very very long time and that new people coming in happened to be men and so when you often come in from the outside versus there a long time it's just that the compensation gets out

of whack. So we had to sort of adjust

of whack. So we had to sort of adjust that over time, but um but it was constantly on my mind. And so

that was something that and we talk about it a lot at the company.

Yeah. I mean that's something one thing I've shared before on our podcast is that even you know 10 years after you did this audit like one of the only times I asked for a pay raise was when I

saw on my team some of my team members that I had hired and worked for me and were you know several levels below me were being compensated more than I was.

So that was when I was finally like, "Okay, I can't avoid this anymore." Like

the numbers are right in front of me. I

need to I need to, you know, speak up for myself and say something to to make it like a a fair sort of pay situation.

So that was it was very hard for me to do that kind of like you were alluding to.

Yeah. And look, I mean I I will say that um I I hate this fact, but often you have to clearly create not you, but people have to clearly create value, but

squeaky wheels do um get paid more. And so and and the thing is I think it's really important which I tell women is like look even if you don't get it ask because it puts something in sort of your manager's

head that it matters to you and you care and over time you'll figure it out whether it's like this job or future jobs but you've always got to ask and be okay hearing no.

Yeah. It's really a muscle that you need to train and especially if it's not something that you grew up doing or you know asking for things. Um whether it's

in relationships at work or in any way it's it's really hard to get into that mindset. And so I really admire that you

mindset. And so I really admire that you came from it as it to me it lands that it is a protective measure in the sense where there are employees who are doing

great work but they are unable or un like they don't know how to speak up for themselves.

Yeah, I think that's true. And also we have to teach our daughters too. Yes.

Cuz you know you sort of start to see that girls when they go through puberty they start to sort of pull back and this is when we need to teach them like no this is actually when you need to speak up.

Yeah. just ask.

Mhm.

The worst that that can happen is that like you get no, you get rejected, but what's the best case scenario, right? And you actually have to learn to

right? And you actually have to learn to ask. I I think it's an important muscle

ask. I I think it's an important muscle not just to learn to ask for money, but just to learn to ask for things in general in relationships, you know, um

for promotions, for like, you know, from your family members. And so that that is a um I think I think it's important. And

also like sometimes if you manifest it and you say it out loud, it also makes it feel really real.

Yeah, that's something that we've really gotten into where I've been I've been doing this thing called the artist way where a big part of is journaling every day and like writing down just getting

all your thoughts out. And it's crazy how the the thoughts that you have, if you just write them down, they just happen.

Yeah.

I don't know how else to explain it.

Yeah. Yeah. They become more real.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're like putting the energy out into the world from just your brain.

You're putting it in the physical world in some way and that helps you sort of uh actualize it. I think

I I I agree.

It's advocating for yourself and also when you put it down on paper or you tell someone or tell yourself, say it to yourself in the mirror, it's making it more real.

Yeah.

Yeah. Cool.

So, we have a lot of um women who are watching Tiger Sisters podcast and following. And one question that we get

following. And one question that we get a lot is about serving on boards. So,

what would your advice be for women who are interested in serving on boards?

Because it seems like for you a lot of it happened like quite organically and it's like one happened after the other.

Um so, yeah. What would your advice be?

Um, look, when it comes, so I want to delineate between private boards and public boards because I do think that there is generally it's hard to be to be asked to be on a public board because

generally people want people have had experience running a public board and so what's the best way to become a public board member is be a public

CEO. So that's not always easy. Um, that

CEO. So that's not always easy. Um, that

said, I mean, there's a lot of private boards that will ultimately go public where people are looking for important skill sets. For example, if you've got a

skill sets. For example, if you've got a very complex and diverse workforce, then having a a person who does sort of talent management or HR, they need those

kind of skills. And so, or if you're a CFO and they have a whole from for audit committee or finance, then I think that that's an interesting path. Um, what I will say, which is like more of like

kind of a macro um, statement because it's funny. I I went to Wharton Business

it's funny. I I went to Wharton Business School and they have a a women in boards course that we teach. A handful of us who are on boards we we teach.

Wow.

And we get the same question all the time like, "How did you get on the boards you're on?" But I found on the boards that I am on, I will often hear

men talk about the golf games that they've with each other or the university boards that they serve on together. And a lot of the women

together. And a lot of the women are not talking about that because we are taking care of our children and our parents and we take a much more active

role in other parts of our lives that often times the men that I serve on boards don't do.

And so um so I actually reached out to a couple of the board members from Uber and I said, "Hey, we're doing this strategy session. Do you guys want to

strategy session. Do you guys want to come in a night before and have dinner together?" And the women who I asked,

together?" And the women who I asked, they're like, "Yeah, no one's ever asked us to do this." So I we don't have time to play golf, nor do we play golf, but we caught up over dinner and we built a

relationship over time by trying to catch up the three of us, the women on the board. And the only reason I bring

the board. And the only reason I bring that up as a as a a story is that I think about the relationship I had with Patricia Nikos, who is the chairwoman of

Thread Up, one of the boards I'm on. She

was on the board of of very early VC.

She's incredible. She was on the board ofcare.com and she and I because I just think she's incredible. She have she and I have kept up through the years and every you know four to six months we'll reach out. We'll try to have coffee or

reach out. We'll try to have coffee or we'll catch up over Zoom. And so the whole moral of my story here is invest in the relationships not because you need to network but because you know

these people make you happy. You learn

something from them. They're

interesting. cuz those are the relationships that over time really will have a big impact in in your life and especially we started off the conversation you guys were telling me you've had incredible careers but like

you were PM at a fast growing company and there's probably so many interesting people that were in your network but then as we have kids and are busy and are running around we just don't have time to foster those relationships and

women are the worst at it more than men most conferences you go to at least that I go to it's like 90 I never have to wait in the women's bathroom because there's no women, but we just don't have the time cuz you're like, I it's that

seems like an inefficient use of my time. But these relationships will they

time. But these relationships will they will really bear fruit over time. And so

that's what think about the people, write them on your list and put the people down that like I really want to what are they doing in a year from now, six months from now, 10 years from now.

And those are the ones that over time you'll be surprised at how much opportunity you'll have to learn to potentially serve on boards to advise you name it to invest.

So it's investing in the relationships of with people that you admire, you respect, that you enjoy working with, that you sort of have like a natural relationship with and affinity towards.

Yeah. And look, networks are I mean I I have a lot of friends from business school. It's been so fun connecting to

school. It's been so fun connecting to all these people over the course of their careers. And I'd say like think

their careers. And I'd say like think about it from your very first job um all the way to where you are today. There's

so many people you're going to come across that you're like, I would love to spend more time with them.

Yeah, that's one thing that I have really enjoyed about the two of us starting our company together is that now that we have our own company, we get to like pick who we work with. We get to

decide who we spend our time with and who we invest in and who we build with.

And it's just been so much fun to just get to work with your friends who you like really admire and you you know think the world of and so talented and like wow we actually get to work with them.

Yeah.

I mean look I I talked about this woman Char a lot. I mean who it was very lucky I got to run a business with my best friend. I mean she wasn't when she

friend. I mean she wasn't when she started but we became such close confidants and friends over time. And

when she left match group as the CEO a few years after I did, she said, "Well, the thing, well, I told her the thing I miss most is working with her because we had so much fun together and she's also

brilliant and we are very symbiotic part. We had a symbiotic partnership."

part. We had a symbiotic partnership."

But we ended up saying, "Okay, well, let's figure out if we want to work with private equity or with a venture capitalist together, but let's try to do it as a team because we know as a team we are probably better than individually

and also it's so much more fun." And we know that people like working with us as a team as well.

So, we ended up joining private equity firm as operating partners, but together. So, we were like a package

together. So, we were like a package deal. So, it just goes to show Yeah. So,

deal. So, it just goes to show Yeah. So,

people are like, "You we have to hire you together?" Like, "Yes,

you together?" Like, "Yes, yes, you do."

I like that. I love that. like and if you don't want to, we don't care. But so

so that's the kind of the the relationship you just talked about is that like you know sometimes those are you'll look back and like wow this is the best thing that ever happened to me in my career aside from you know building a great

business which we did.

I just think you're so cool. You like

create your own reality like you're just defining and just doing things. You're like hire the two of us

things. You're like hire the two of us together like that would never because she's asking.

Yeah. or creating the opportunities that would be most rewarding for you.

Yeah. I mean, but I'm also old and I I got I I I fortunately had enough success that I earned the ability to do that. I

probably wouldn't have done that when I was in my late 20s or 30s. So, but I I I was I slogged it out for a long time. So, but

it's fun. And by the way, thank you for saying I'm cool because my kids would not say so.

So, I really appreciate that.

Okay, we have a fun little segment. Yes.

The last part.

The last part. We have these fortune cookies that are um they have questions inside them. We have

mild and wild.

Okay.

And so you'll take one of each.

Okay. And

I can't wait.

Yeah.

Um and it was so fun, you guys, cuz I filled out your questions, I think, for your newsletter.

Yeah.

And did you guys look at my answers?

We didn't look at them. We're we're

saving them.

Okay. You can save them. I won't mention them. But it was very funny.

them. But it was very funny.

Are they wild? No, I was just laughing because it was like, "What show are you watching now?" And I said, "I" and I was

watching now?" And I said, "I" and I was like, "I I'm just going to say it." So I I was like, "Well, I am more obsessed with The Summer I turned pretty more than my daughter."

Oh my gosh.

So she's like, "Mom, this is embarrassing that you watch this stuff."

I was like, "I can't help it. I'm just I can't I'm team Conrad all the way. I

just can't help it."

Well, do you know there's like so much literary analysis about the show?

Well, yes, of course, because I like I'm on TikTok all the time. Okay. We have

the exact same algorithm. Yes. And it's

like, why am I a 45-year-old woman with three kids and a happily married, but I'm in love with Conrad. I was like, "Oh my god, me too."

That's because he was written by a woman.

Yes. Exactly. Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a whole conversation.

Yes. I have the wild and I have the mild. Okay. Maybe we start with You're Yeah, you can choose one.

Okay. Okay. So, this is the mild. This

is so fun.

What is it?

Okay. This is This is funny. I mean, I can't wait to see what the wild is. What

types of people do you tend to attract?

That's a good question.

So, it's so funny. So, I um I'll just use my husband.

Yeah.

So, I think that you know that I definitely at some point, you know, got him uh intrigued enough to want to ask

me out. Um I tend to

me out. Um I tend to um well I tell you there's a difference between work and non work but my personal life um I definitely um

people who are a little bit more introverted and less big personalities. My husband's

a very uh contemplative wise introvert.

So that is probably who is attracted to me.

Um, and then in work, it's so interesting because I am a very instinctive decision maker and I'm probably more of I'm I'm a creative.

Yeah.

At at heart and I'm pretty good when it comes to consumer instincts, but I generally hire people who are way more

um analytical focused and decision makers. And so when we did assessments

makers. And so when we did assessments on team dynamics at match, it was shocking to see how many people were not like me than like me. So

wait, I love that. That also means that you're hiring just a diver a diverse group of people that balance you out.

Yeah. Well, maybe that they just balanced me out. They were all very similar. But yes, but I think that that

similar. But yes, but I think that that was okay. I can't wait to see what Wild

was okay. I can't wait to see what Wild was.

Okay.

These are random. We don't know what you're going to have.

We don't even know. We have no idea.

Okay.

This is our first time trying this out.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Okay.

Who loved you better than you deserved?

Oh my god.

What? That's so deep.

It is so deep. Um,

did we approve that one?

Um, I don't I might need to get another one. I thought I was going to be like

one. I thought I was going to be like sexy out of my card. Um, well, it's so funny to talk about um about my husband

again, but I do feel like um that he is the kindest human I've ever met. And

sometimes I feel like I I got lucky. I

don't deserve him.

So, that's beautiful.

And he's so lovely.

Yeah, he's a wonderful guy. So, and he puts up with a lot of women in his life.

So, me and my daughters. So,

okay. I I think I might need one more like like wild wild one just cuz that doesn't seem very wild.

Okay, we'll see if we can let me just Manny wants one that's just about sex straight up.

I've been asked a lot about it over the years.

Okay.

Huh? My god, you guys. These are not like these are not like the these are Who in your life are you secretly competing with? And do they even know

competing with? And do they even know it?

Oh my god.

That's pretty juicy.

Uh, I mean, maybe Belly since we just talked about we just talked about Conrad. Um,

Conrad. Um, I um I will say which is like I don't mean to be a pivot but I compete a lot more with myself than others.

So, and I do know that classic. Yeah.

classic. Yeah.

Yeah.

Felt.

Yeah. I would agree with that.

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

Thank you for sharing. This was so fun.

We're so glad to have you.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And good luck, you guys. This is um I watched a I've

you guys. This is um I watched a I've seen your uh podcast and then when you guys asked me, I I went back and watched a bunch more. So,

that's awesome.

Thank you. Wait, you saw it before? I

had seen like your I'd seen you guys beforehand through like friends sharing and then um and then I so I I knew I knew about Tiger Sisters and then I I mean I'd heard about it and I'd seen maybe a

podcast and then when I got the note from Iran and you guys I I went and watched a few more.

Oh my god. Amazing. We're so flattered.

We're so happy to have you guys have good energy.

Thanks. So do you.

A quick note. So, I know a lot of people think that podcasts are just about talking off the cuff, but I think what you don't see is that for Tiger Sisters podcast, behind the scenes, there is so much research and cultural curation that

goes into every single episode. Yeah.

And I feel like you can kind of feel it because in every episode, we have a lot of studies that we reference, a lot of research, and we want to make sure you guys get the signal through all the noise out there. That's why it is so

important that you subscribe and follow us on every single platform, whether it's Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcast, or whatever you're watching this on. It

only takes two seconds to do and it's really a simple gesture that has so much impact on helping us build momentum and build this community with you. Welcome

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