Kate Winslet: “The media called me fat!” Why I’m embracing wrinkles and championing women

The mainstream media in the UK, it's no secret, were absolutely horrific to me.

Horrendous in a way that they should all be ashamed of. And every single tabloid newspaper should have sent me a written apology, which they haven't done. I do

have to advocate for myself after 33 years in this business. It's quite

amazing really. And there are ways in which we speak to women in the film industry that we simply don't speak to men [music] in the same way.

>> Christmas for you. What is Christmas Day like in your house?

>> It's just fantastic. You know, there's stockings and everyone climbing into bed and all doing stockings and, you know, somebody bringing mom a cup of tea, which I love.

>> Kate Winsler, what an absolute joy.

>> Oh, thank you for having me. We've not

met before, which feels >> a bit s Yes, it does feel a bit odd since we've both been around for so long.

>> For so long. And we know people who know.

>> I don't know anyone >> apart from our shared hair colorist.

There we go.

>> I know. But it's so great to meet you >> and you.

>> I had a chat with myself whilst prepping for this podcast because 14-year-old me went to the St. An Center in Harrow four times. I used up every penny that I

times. I used up every penny that I could find lying around to watch Titanic.

>> And I said, "Right, 14-year-old Fern, you can come along today, but you're not asking the questions." So, she's here, >> okay?

>> But she's not in charge.

>> She's just sitting on your shoulder saying, "Don't do it, Fern. Don't do it.

>> Don't you probably see You've probably seen it more times than I've seen it.

>> Oh my god. I don't tend to watch my films very often.

>> Do you not?

>> No. Funnily enough, no. It's not

something I'll just sit down and watch myself in a film. I don't think so.

>> But what about like at Christmas? The

holiday is inescapable. Surely.

>> Oh, darling. No, I just don't actually I really don't I don't tend to go back on things. I the the process of making a

things. I the the process of making a film and being with everybody and part of that community is so special and unique to me that almost watching the film feels like a very separate part of the process. And sometimes I almost feel

the process. And sometimes I almost feel like, oh god, that's something I have to do because it's not I don't find it comfortable watching myself on screen. I

don't know many actors who do like watching themselves on screen >> because you're self-critical.

>> Um I mean probably yes. I mean I definitely know that I can be. Um but

also just because it feels like I don't know. It's it's just a sort of a

know. It's it's just a sort of a separate experience. Watching it all put

separate experience. Watching it all put together is so different to the process of making it daytoday living and breathing and experience with a big

group of people that uh seeing something in isolation separate to those individuals feels very odd.

>> So I think it's got something to do with that.

>> Slightly different this time round I'm imagining for Goodbye June because not only are you in it but you're also directing it. So, you've kind of got to

directing it. So, you've kind of got to have all eyes on all of it outside of your respective part of of the acting in it.

>> Yes. And and and I produced it as well because just doing one job or two wasn't enough, so I had to do three like an idiot. Um, but I loved it all. I mean, I

idiot. Um, but I loved it all. I mean, I I I think I was I was so exhausted and I and and had sort of a I don't know, I felt like I had batteries up my bum for

months on end, but I felt so uplifted by the experience. You know, I heard

the experience. You know, I heard someone recently say on a podcast, actually, they were talking about the difference between stress and pressure.

Stress being a bad thing, but pressure being something that you can really work with and uh and be uplifted by if you are enriched and fulfilled by what you're doing. And I truly experienced, I

you're doing. And I truly experienced, I think, more than ever in my life, real fulfillment and a sense of >> achievement because I had to pull off a lot in a short space of time. We had

seven weeks to prep the film and put it together, which is when you find all of the locations and build the sets, etc. And then I only had seven weeks to shoot, which is 35 days. Helen Yeah. And

Helen plays the title role of June. And

I actually only had her for 16 days, you know, for three weeks and one day, and she's the integral part of the story.

And I had seven children, which was actually eight because there's a baby in the film, and that was identical twin girls. So, there was just so much to

girls. So, there was just so much to juggle and balance all of the time.

not only keeping the atmosphere lively and joyful on set largely for the sake of the children, but also because the subject matter at times was quite wearing on people emotionally. But the

crew, you know, as a director, you really do have to lead by example and bring everyone with you. And so having that energy and switching that part of myself on at the beginning of every day

was fantastic. And uh and it really

was fantastic. And uh and it really brought me so much joy to do something that I've never done before. and um and I felt proud of myself as a woman, you know, at this time in my life. I just

turned 50 and to be doing something that I have watched so many men do before and I've seen male actors transition into directing and um have done really

successfully and largely without any judgment or scrutiny. And it's just not the same for girls.

>> No, it's not. And it feels like for you personally, not only is this an amazing challenge for you to to make that switch, but also you're doing it on

behalf of women to help this cultural shift in the very male-dominated Hollywood directing scene.

>> Yeah, it it mattered to me a great deal, I think, to >> to really sort of walk alongside those women who are in a minority still. And

it's it's bizarre and it's strange and it's a shame. Um, I think the culture is gradually changing. You know, I think

gradually changing. You know, I think something that people perhaps don't know about directing is that you aren't on the job for seven weeks of prep and seven weeks of a shoot. You know, if the prep is longer and the shoot is longer,

then it's a more substantial period of time. But the development process when

time. But the development process when you work alongside a writer, which I've done several times now, is really, really lengthy. You know, when they hand

really lengthy. You know, when they hand in draft after draft and you give notes and they get it right, that's a long process in itself. Then pre-production

and the production itself. But then you immediately go right into the edit and I was across everything. I didn't I didn't leave my editor's side. My editor was a woman. I was so proud to work alongside

woman. I was so proud to work alongside a woman, Luchia Zuceti, who I just loved to pieces. She was wonderful. She worked

to pieces. She was wonderful. She worked

a lot with Lim Ramsey in the very early days. And so she was a huge inspiration

days. And so she was a huge inspiration to me every day in terms of her own sensibility around storytelling. and and

then once you finish the edit, which is 10 solid weeks, you go right into the sound mix and then you go into the grade and then you it's it's just it's absolutely endless. And I loved that

absolutely endless. And I loved that sense of backtoback. And I think what people perhaps don't consider is that as women, we're so busy raising families.

>> Yeah.

>> Having children. So, it is a lot harder to step away. You know, being a director, it's it's over a year of your life start to finish. It really is. And

um and I certainly couldn't have done it at this in my life before this time now when my youngest is almost 12. Um and

I'm lucky enough to have an extraordinary husband who's at home and running the show when I'm in a studio somewhere. And uh I couldn't do any of

somewhere. And uh I couldn't do any of it without Ned. I mean, it's a total given when you see a male director that no questions would be asked like how are you doing this and juggling a family?

Whereas when it's a female in the role, those questions are probably asked before anything like how are you how are you doing it all? And that I think only >> shows us like it illustrates that we are still carrying not only the practical

burden a lot of the time but the emotional burden of raising kids, organizing everything, who's taking what to school, is there a school trip coming up, are there birthday presents to buy?

It's still there's not been that much progress in in that area. Maybe Ned is one of the few men who are doing that.

>> He is one of the few. I am really very lucky. But you know I think what you say

lucky. But you know I think what you say is is so true that there are questions put to women that are just simply not put to men and there are ways in which we speak to women in the film industry

that we simply don't speak to men in the same way. Um and actually there's still

same way. Um and actually there's still a lot that we have to unlearn in terms of you know just sentences that we use when speaking to

women in film assumptions that I think we so often make. I remember when Maggie Gyllenhaal directed Lost Daughter. I

remember reading a review and it actually started like this. If anyone

ever doubted whether or not Maggie Gyllenhaal could direct a film, you can stop thinking that right now because she smashed it. And I just thought,

smashed it. And I just thought, >> wow.

>> Wow.

But they would never say that about an actor transitioning >> into directing a film. And it's not to diss the boys because [laughter] they're all doing so well and it's very very

exciting to be part of a community that is changing and lots of actors are being given that first-time opportunity to direct a film. Netflix were brilliant with me and I have to say in general

Netflix are spectacularly good at affording filmmakers that first opportunity and that debut experience and so they really got behind myself and my son Joe who wrote the screenplay and

he's young and there was a huge amount of goodwill and great energy behind us from them. So that mattered a great deal

from them. So that mattered a great deal but it has been fascinating how much I still feel I do have to advocate for myself after 33 years in this business.

It's quite amazing really. It's wild.

And also the experience you've had in front of the camera obviously lends itself >> to articulating what you want out of your actors. What was that like? I'm

your actors. What was that like? I'm

sure that many of them you've worked with before or are friends with, see outside of work. Did that, you know, benefit you in in the directing chair. I

think the thing that the thing that helped me is that I've been so fortunate to work with so many different directors across my career and have learned

extraordinary things in great ways, but have also learned things that I know weren't necessarily helpful to me. And

so I've I've got a very good memory. And

so I can recall certain things that may have been said or a way in which something might have been communicated that was not necessarily supportive or might have thrown me for long enough

that I would lose my way in in any given shooting day or lose a sense of what my intention was within the scene. Um, and

so I think just feeling underpinned by what I know is useful to an actor. And

to be honest, the most important thing is that an actor feels heard and given the space to share an idea, even if it might be something that they're worried about coming out of their mouth in a

weird way and it might sound like a silly idea or they might make a mistake or forget their lines and make up something else. I think giving an actor

something else. I think giving an actor a space in which they feel entirely safe and free to experiment and to um be taken care of, you know, uh especially

with something like Goodby June, which deals with family, it deals with loss, it deals with very complex relationships and there's a lot of humor in spite of

the sadness that you feel at times as well in the film. And that did mean that there were many private conversations that we as actors had to have together and them with me as their director

knowing that the trust would be there.

Those things would be kept very very private and sacred between all of us.

And ultimately it bonds you much closer together when you know one another on that very deep granular level and that there are things that you share that you know you would never

>> express anywhere else outside of that really sacred circle. Um

>> and I just loved it and I've always said there's nothing more extraordinary than being in a room full of incredible actors and and it really felt like that.

>> Oh my god. The cast is exceptional.

>> I know. I know. What a dream lineup of people in this film. I don't want to be as reductive to say like was it cathartic because it's not that simple, but were there moments where you were

able to connect to your own experience in perhaps a painful way or or a way that was slightly lightening? Yes. I I

mean I think having lost my own mom uh in 2017, which still feels like yesterday, um it was inevitable that however much I would try and keep that

private experience separate to my day-to-day experience of playing Julia, one of the daughters, and directing Helen Mirin, and watching her go through what she went through to play this part.

It wasn't necessarily cathartic, but there were days when I was literally reliving what happened um when I lost my own mom, even though our film is

fictional. Um yeah, and I would find

fictional. Um yeah, and I would find myself strangely trying to almost hide in a funny way. So in the more intimate scenes perhaps between Helen Mirin and

Tim Spall, you know, I would just sit very quietly in the room that we were shooting in and I would hide behind Max, our lovely focus puller. Um, and I would just sit with him quietly watching his

monitor and sort of crying on his back.

I mean, I remember many times doing that. And I'm just lucky that he's

that. And I'm just lucky that he's someone I wor with before with HBO on a very big six-month job called The Regime. And he was just a great spirit

Regime. And he was just a great spirit to sort of cidle up to in those moments when I think I did feel very vulnerable because it did bring all that stuff up.

And actually, in this country, I don't think we're very good at talking about loss. I don't think we're very good at

loss. I don't think we're very good at processing grief and um in an interesting way, you know, it did bring up a lot of those conversations and

people were quite grateful to be able to have them, not just the cast, but sometimes the crew as well. I bet I mean it's a it's a subject you've explored before in Blackbird again after your mom

had passed away. It's a very different theme and the angle that your character plays is entirely different. But again,

you're having to go through that process of looking, you know, Susan Sarandon in this uh in this film obviously, but going through that loss again. It's it's

full on. I know it is full on. And there

are things I think, you know, that as actors we're drawn to um entirely subconsciously >> and it's only in hindsight that it's crystal clear what we must have been

emotionally trying to work through when we made that particular choice. It's so

funny when I look back to Blackburn, which you're right, was 2018, directed by the late wonderful Roger Michelle.

Still can't believe that we don't have him with us anymore in our film community. Um, but it was only a year

community. Um, but it was only a year after I had lost my mother. And uh, I look back on it now and I think, oh my god, what was I thinking? I was in no

shape, you know, emotionally fit to be making a film to do with loss at all.

Um, but it probably helped me to distract myself um from emotions that I probably wasn't processing efficiently enough in my own in my own life. They're

difficult conversations to have. And I

think what I love the most about Goodbye June is that it is an uplifting film. It

feels warm, you know, and that mattered a great deal when we were prepping the film. We didn't want our hospital spaces

film. We didn't want our hospital spaces to feel stark and cold and lonely because actually when our brilliant National Health Care workers are working

in end of life care, they're so loving, they're so patient, they're so kind, they will sit at the bedside for as long as that patient needs or as long as that patient's relatives need for them to be

there in order to provide that comfort.

And we wanted that sentiment to be real first of all. um which is why we spent a lot of time on real hospital wards working with nurses and paliotative care experts just to make sure that we

weren't missing anything. Um but we wanted to honor the work of those brilliant people and what they do in this country which is of course as we know second to none.

>> Yeah, I know. And there'll be so many people this Christmas going through exactly that probably feeling utterly alone like everybody else is having a jolly great Christmas and they're the

ones at bedside. I when I was watching it, I had this huge memory that I'd sort of like not forgotten, but it hadn't been in the forefront of my mind of when my granddad was really really on his

sort of final days and we went to visit him on Christmas Day and it was a really surreal experience.

>> Oh my gosh. being in hospital on Christmas Day and he was kind of in and out of lucidity and saying some like brilliantly hilarious things and being quite wacky in the state he was in and

it being yeah there was a lot of hope there and a lot of camaraderie from all of us being around him and >> I think there would just be so many people that relate to it and of course

>> when you've lost someone and I wonder how you feel about this Christmas does have a different flavor to it.

>> Oh my gosh, >> it's a different thing. It really does because it's one of those huge celebratory occasions that becomes the first of something that happens after

you've lost someone, the first birthday, your children's first birthday that you have after that person's gone, first Christmases, etc. you know, there are

they become these milestones where it becomes gapingly obvious that that person's presence isn't there anymore and what those moments had meant

>> for you as a family when they were with you. Um and so yes, I think I think that

you. Um and so yes, I think I think that it is a very interesting reflective time Christmas because also it brings up so much you know [laughter] >> um it brings up so much wonderful times

and really challenging times you know >> and there's so much expectation that it's meant to be something and if you don't land on oh it's this perfect sparkly day >> oh my gosh

>> you feel like you're missing out or you've got it wrong. It's such a strange strange thing.

>> I know. I'm thinking of myself last Christmas and I was just absolutely frantic, you know, doing everything and wrapping and cooking and brining and, you know, all of that stuff. And I

remember Ned at one point turning to me and saying, "Do you think you could just sit down and have maybe we could just have a drink?" And I said, "Do you sit sit down? Are you mad?" And [laughter]

sit down? Are you mad?" And [laughter] he looked at me like he looked at me like I'd totally lost my mind, which I think I probably had. But anyway, it's all worth it, isn't it?

>> It it it can be. It definitely can be.

It is so much weird fuss for like one day. each year. Why am I why I started

day. each year. Why am I why I started Christmas shopping in like early October this year? I thought I did that too. I

this year? I thought I did that too. I

was like, I want to get ahead of all of this and have it wrapped and on like in the side of a room somewhere and I'll think about it in December. I was

thinking, what the heck what the [ __ ] am I doing like 1st of October logging on to Christmas shop? I mean, what is what is Christmas for you? What is Christmas Day like in your house?

>> Oh, it's a real laugh. I mean, it's it's it's it's just fantastic. You know,

there's stockings and everyone climbing into bed and all doing stockings and, you know, somebody bringing mom a cup of tea, which I love. And uh yeah, I it's

it's one of those days when actually I find that my kids really do uh pause and think and take the time to kind of make me a piece of toast and scrambled eggs.

Like little things like that. So, and I just love all being together, you know, heaps of food. Usually me and my son cooking. He's always cooked alongside

cooking. He's always cooked alongside me. And uh

me. And uh >> Oh, it's great. It's really great. Lots

of people. There's always visitors. It's

great fun.

>> Yeah. So,

>> and games. Lots of silly games.

>> Yeah. Lots of very very silly games. Oh

my god. We last year we got obsessed with playing um this game called Soundiculous. Oh, nice. So, it's a

Soundiculous. Oh, nice. So, it's a little box with two kazoos in it and a little stack of cards and you have to try and play the tune of the song written on the card, but only through a

kazoo.

>> It's flipping hilarious and actually totally made me wet myself last year.

[laughter] Um, because people trying to emphatically blow harder to make the things sound clearer when everyone's shouting out things like, you know, Tootsie, you know, [laughter] it's clearly not Tootsie. That kind of thing.

Um, so that was a great game. And then

there was another one that's another game that somebody got us which and I can't remember what it was called, but it was so funny. And it's a it's a game where each person puts on a little plastic belt and attached to the back of

the belt that dangles down between the legs is a is um is is is a little sort of plastic hook. And then the idea is that you waddle around the room with

your legs straddled trying to pick up little sort of plastic hoops that are balanced in various places on the floor >> with a fake Willie.

>> With a fake Willie. And so [laughter] >> getting everyone up on their feet, people who are normally just happy to sit there and eat a box of Quality Street, watching them with a great sort of balloon type contraction dangling

between their legs is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

>> Yeah, I need to invest in that one. I

know what it was called. I really like niche bespoke Christmas things that people do because you do get into a sort of sense of tradition that you end up doing the same thing every year. I

remember when we were kids, >> but it's comforting.

>> It's so comforting.

>> It's really comforting and reassuring.

>> I love it. My uncle every Christmas day would put on Mike Lee's Nuts in May, which is the least Christmy film ever.

>> That's hilarious.

>> And we would watch that and it was not Christmas unless we had watched that. It

wasn't, you know, a classic Christmas movie. It's just such a strange thing.

movie. It's just such a strange thing.

>> That's It's a very strange thing.

>> It's a great film.

>> I know.

>> Um, you like me are also navigating Christmas with kids, with ex partners, co-parenting. Do you navigate that well?

co-parenting. Do you navigate that well?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's never been any kind of a challenge actually at all. But

in actual fact, for the majority of the last eight years, my daughter's dad and his lovely wife, who I just so grateful to have in my life, and their two children, we've all had Christmases together.

>> That's so lovely. Um, and actually for his daughters who are 12 and 15, it's now weird if they aren't with us.

>> Um, and actually me as dad and I cook the Christmas dinner sometimes.

>> That's so lovely.

>> I know. And, uh, you know, I haven't particularly I haven't ever actually talked about that because we just get on with it. Um, I think there's a sort of a

with it. Um, I think there's a sort of a strange fascination in the media with, you know, when uh high-profile couples or people who are in the public eye have

separated, there's sort of a huge, you know, flurry of excitement around, oh my god, they get on.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, of course we bloody do.

>> Yeah. You got kids together?

>> Well, exactly. Exactly. And uh

>> Yeah. Yeah. And as I say, Jim, um, Jim's wife, Julie, she's just such a spectacular lady, and I just feel so grateful to have had her as me as stepmother.

>> It's something extraordinary about another mother in the world loving your child >> the same way that you do >> and I just feel incredibly grateful to have that.

>> I mean, your daughter Mia is now also acting. Yes. You won a BAFTA together,

acting. Yes. You won a BAFTA together, which was a gorgeous moment seeing you both up on stage. Like what an amazing I can't even imagine how what that felt like.

>> Well, I mean it was just incredible.

Absolutely incredible. And I think being in a situation where both of my older children have gone into the film industry and wanting for them to feel as

though they were carving their own paths. You know, I I definitely felt

paths. You know, I I definitely felt very strongly from Mia at the time that she really wanted to prove that she could do it >> and also that she was different to me.

She is a very different actress to me, different person. Um, we look very

different person. Um, we look very differently. She's actually quite

differently. She's actually quite titchy. Um, I mean, I'm not that tall.

titchy. Um, I mean, I'm not that tall.

I'm only 5'6, but she's about 5'2. and

um she's got a power to her and a sense of uh and and a realism about her acting. She's very very natural. Um

acting. She's very very natural. Um

unnervingly so actually I think and I was just so proud of her for the performance she gave in I Am Ruth because it was unbelievably challenging every single day. And I think something

people perhaps don't know about um I Am Ruth was that it was entirely improvised. There was no scripted

improvised. There was no scripted dialogue. There was no there were no

dialogue. There was no there were no lines written down for us on a page. The

script was made up entirely of scenes that were just description.

>> Wow.

>> There were no words written. So every

day we were inventing the narrative.

>> And that took real concentration, but it took from her extraordinary courage because she had to go to places that were very frightening.

>> And she bloody well did it. My god, she smashed it.

>> That's so incredible.

>> Yeah. Oh, the like the pride that you feel clever girl. I mean, I just Yeah, I do feel such extraordinary pride. And

then she was in the finishing scheme directed by Wes Anderson with Benio and >> she's she's had a really great run and she's a she's a hard worker and uh and she's a she's a great great person. So,

I'm very proud.

>> I mean, obviously it's being a mom is just the most complicated wild ride ever and you want to set your kids free and say go do whatever makes you happy. Was

there trepidation in seeing her go into the same industry that you've been in, especially at a young age?

>> I'm not the kind of person who approaches anything in life with trepidation to be honest. So, so the answer is no. I mean, it certainly crossed my mind,

>> okay, how is she going to handle herself in an industry that is quite frantic and can be particularly for her generation, particularly as a girl, really competitive, especially right now. So

many brilliant young actors are coming up and doing such great things and it's a really exciting time I think to be in the film industry for young people. Plus

there's tons of opportunity now when you look at the streamers and the content there's masses of it. You know when I was running around auditioning when I was 16 17 years old there was BBC 1, BBC

2. Eventually we got ITV there was radio

2. Eventually we got ITV there was radio plays a bit of theater >> lowbudget films which were rare and films like Star Wars and Casualty. that

was it >> or the bill or the bill and crime watch, you know, and and you were lucky if you got one of those very few gigs that everybody was vying for. But now that

there's this huge wealth of content available, um, creativity is just going through the roof. And so it's very, very exciting. Um, but I wasn't I wasn't I

exciting. Um, but I wasn't I wasn't I wasn't worried about Mia not being able to uh handle herself and I certainly wasn't worried about whether or not she

could do it because I've known for years that she was going to be an actress from when she was a little girl.

>> Wow.

>> I knew and I just thought, well, one day you'll declare it. And then she did and she went, are you shocked? And I was like, no, not remotely.

>> What about the sort of press element to it? Because again, I mean, you and I

it? Because again, I mean, you and I both know in different ways that they can be bloody awful >> and I've certainly been to Helen back.

You've had your own challenges in your own life with that. Have you do you sort of offer words of advice or did you feel personally worried about her stepping into that?

>> Yeah, I mean I think I think the only I've only ever given my kids advice if they've asked for it, right?

>> I've never forced anything onto them because I do want for them to completely navigate their own path. Yeah. because

if they aren't doing that, they won't feel like they've done it and they won't truly believe in themselves and what they have to offer. So, that's the most important thing. The only advice I um I

important thing. The only advice I um I have given or try and give is just to stay calm, be yourself, and don't read reviews.

>> Never, never, >> never, >> never, ever.

>> Worst thing you can do.

>> Yeah. I mean, I find feedback such an interesting concept and that's whether it's good or bad >> because I think both can be kind of

equally as dangerous. I might be overegging the sort of like the celebratory stuff, but I think if you buy into either side too much, you're kind of screwed cuz if you believe the good stuff, then when it goes, you don't

know who the hell you are. Well, the

thing is if you read the good stuff and you believe the good stuff, you're still going to find one bad thing and you will only remember the one bad thing because that's how we're wired.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, so yeah, I'd say, yeah, feedback and yes, people are things to be wary of, I think.

>> Yeah. I mean, where where do you sit in it all now? Because obviously it's amazing, especially when you've worked on a project like like Goodbye June when you're so ingrained into every element of it. You want people to enjoy it. You

of it. You want people to enjoy it. You

want people to say, "Oh my god, that touched me. I wept or I thought it was

touched me. I wept or I thought it was purely joyful. But equally, when you're

purely joyful. But equally, when you're sort of lapping up that feedback, you are then curious about, like you said, the downside. Do you do you read

the downside. Do you do you read anything? Do you hear anything about

anything? Do you hear anything about your projects you're working on? So, I I learned early on in my career, how to not

care what people think. Because if you care what people think, then you make decisions and live your life based on potential scrutiny or criticism. But I

do very much care how people feel.

>> So when people come up to me, you know, in the eggs aisle in Waitros and they tell me that they can't wait to sit down with their daughter and watch the holiday at Christmas like they do every single year like many mother and

daughter couples. It's a running theme.

daughter couples. It's a running theme.

Um it warms my heart completely. So

people coming up and saying, "Oh, that performance moved me or I really loved that film and it meant so much to me and reminded me of my that's different."

That is a wonderful thing because we're only making the work for audiences.

That's the most important part for me.

So actually I have thought a little bit about how am I going to cope with this now with goodbye June coming out and reviews as a director because I think I

might feel a sense of responsibility and duty for the other actors to just know that it's all okay you know everyone chill you know keeping everyone level

and that sense again of wanting everyone to feel safe um and supported I might feel that I need to just keep a bit of an eye Um, but I don't know, maybe I

maybe I will be able to apply my same, you know, personal survival strategy rule and not read anything. Um, it

matters to us as the people behind the film. It matters to us enormously that

film. It matters to us enormously that people appreciate it and feel moved by it. And perhaps that it perhaps that it

it. And perhaps that it perhaps that it might ignite conversation because I think that some of the most complicated relationships in our lives are with the ones we love the most.

>> Yeah.

>> Um and so often, you know, we forget to talk about that. Um and it's so much easier not to have those confronting conversations with a family member that

you may need to have. It's so much easier to just avoid it. But actually,

in the long run, is that right? you

know, and I think the film really does dig in to that and ignite that conversation, which is interesting to me.

>> Oh my god, without a doubt. I mean,

there's obviously that very moving scene where you're sat with your sister on the floor and you I don't want to give too much away, but you're having a real very needed heartto-heart after years of not getting on, clashing heads >> while not speaking.

>> Well, not speaking. And you know, that is very common place again in many families, you know, where there's relatives that will not be in the same room as each other. Would you say that you've applied that to real life? Cuz it

is hard. Like, you know, if I think about having really honest conversations with my mom or dad, that to me is way harder than probably sitting here with someone having a heartto-he heart that I don't really know. Yeah. Conversations

with parents are something that I I actually as I got older and I think because I became a parent quite young when uh when I was only 25. Um I think I

I had a I think I had an awareness from a younger age of just how important it was to communicate properly with my parents. I have a I have a very very

parents. I have a I have a very very close relationship with my father. Um

and and and we do really share everything and we have good old chats.

Um and he's absolutely brilliant at telling it how it is. So I'm very very grateful to have that. Um I mean I just try and live my life, you know, with intention and integrity and to treat

people the way I myself would hope to be treated in return.

>> Yeah. life is really too short to be burdened with negativity and you know toxic influences and I just um

>> I just do my best to you know walk through the world being a decent person it it matters it matters to me a great deal in every aspect with family with friends with people I work with it

matters to me a lot >> do you care how much you're liked because I think that's a very different thing and I like what you said earlier the distinction between not caring what people think, but became what people

feel. I've never really landed on that

feel. I've never really landed on that before. And I think that helps in this

before. And I think that helps in this conversation because I in the last couple of years have wanted to really combat that need to be liked. And I

think because I mean my job is being myself. So if someone says they don't

myself. So if someone says they don't like you, it's you they don't like rather than it being a character or sometimes even a skill set. And I think that used to feel like a huge burden and

I'm unpicking it. But the tendency to people please was omnipresent and it and it informed so many of my decisions and the way that I move through the world.

And I'm only now in my mid-40s going I don't want to do that anymore. I've got

to care less if people like me. And if I need to say something that seems a bit blunt or forward or or I need to say no quite frankly.

>> Interesting. So in but in what in what context do you mean like? So are you talking about people that you meet or are you talking >> literally anyone that you really because I think you know you're obviously globally wellknown. I'm absolutely not.

globally wellknown. I'm absolutely not.

But I think it is more heavily weighted when people assume things about you and go oh yeah I really I really like that Kate Winsler. Oh I really like that Fern

Kate Winsler. Oh I really like that Fern Cotton. Oh I don't like her. You know

Cotton. Oh I don't like her. You know

people instantly make a decision as to whether you're a likable character. And

that for me has been way too it's been disproportionately heavy. I think

disproportionately heavy. I think >> Fern darling [laughter] >> give me the advice. Let's go. You cannot

control or dictate >> No.

>> The opinions and attitudes of other people.

>> No.

>> All you can do >> is live your best life.

>> Yeah.

>> Be a decent person.

>> Yeah.

>> And live and speak with integrity. Yeah.

>> And then you know that you can go asleep go to sleep at night >> knowing that you did your best today.

>> Yeah.

>> That's it.

>> Yeah.

>> You can't please everybody. There will

always be people who don't like your hair, don't like your face, don't like the sound of your voice, don't believe the things that you say. One thing for me that I know people assume is that

really well educated, well bred, well read, you know, um probably had a bit of privilege. I was a little street

privilege. I was a little street scrapper. My parents had absolutely

scrapper. My parents had absolutely nothing. But people don't think that of

nothing. But people don't think that of me because I speak well. And I

absolutely understand why people wouldn't think that. But there's a reason why I speak very well and it's because my maternal grandmother went to Italia Conti which is a very famous theater school. She was in the same year

theater school. She was in the same year as Noel Coward.

>> Wow.

>> So she was taught how to speak. She grew

up above a pub on Charlotte Street.

>> She was taught how to speak well. So

when she had her six children, they copied the mother tongue. So when I was born, we copied our mother's tongue, which was to speak well. M.

>> And so, and it drives me crazy that I would never be able to correct what people think. But I can't do anything

people think. But I can't do anything about that.

>> No, you can't.

>> I can't do anything about that at all.

>> You drive yourself mad.

>> And you know what? It's okay. Let them

think what they're going to think.

>> You can't live your life trying to change the opinions of other people. It

doesn't work. You'll make yourself miserable.

>> When do you think you landed on that?

Because obviously, I think being thrown into the spotlight at a young age, you are fast tracked to try and learn that one quickly if you want to >> survive Hollywood. And that might sound like quite a severe way of saying it,

but I think you do. You survive it or you don't.

>> You're absolutely right. Surviving

Hollywood, surviving, you know, an industry that can be cutthroat.

Certainly when I was younger was very cutthroat. And the mainstream media in

cutthroat. And the mainstream media in the UK, it's no secret, were absolutely horrific to me. Horrendous in a way that they should all be ashamed of. And every

single tabloid newspaper should have sent me a written apology, which they haven't done. Um, even that is

haven't done. Um, even that is disgraceful. It's just like be

disgraceful. It's just like be courteous. Just hold your hand up and

courteous. Just hold your hand up and say, "We shouldn't have done that to you. You were a young girl." Um, and I

you. You were a young girl." Um, and I was scrutinized for how I looked because they decided I was fat.

>> Well, what do you think that does to a person's self-esteem? What do you think

person's self-esteem? What do you think that does to someone who probably was teetering on the verge of a horrible eating disorder at that age? because I

don't know any young actress at that time in their early 90s, late 80s, early 90s who wasn't battling with some form of issue around their phys their physical selves because that was simply

what the press did.

>> Yeah.

>> Um and I think I realized after a lot of upset and hurt and um a feeling of wanting to just hide actually I think

for a while I realized that I couldn't change any of it. I could just hope that it was going to quietly go away eventually. And I was very lucky because

eventually. And I was very lucky because I had Mia, as I said, when I was so young and that became my world. And so

all that other [ __ ] it just evaporated.

Thank God. And that's one thing now that I have been able to carry into my parenting of all of my children. I just

tell them to be themselves, you know, tell them that they should only ever feel great and be kind to themselves because sometimes they have to hear from us as mothers, you are beautiful, you

are wonderful, now get out there and be yourself. Because guess what, Fern? If

yourself. Because guess what, Fern? If

we aren't telling them these days those things, they might not hear it from anywhere else because the world is so critical and because of social media and

because of likes and because of wanting to conform to some strange idea of perfection that >> God knows where it comes from. But young

people on the whole are suffering with their mental health. They are chasing some ideal just because they want to feel good in who they are. So this sort

of strange slightly warped perception of being included, counting for something, you know, a basic level of self-esteem is being really tampered with, I think.

>> I agree.

>> Um, amongst young people today. And I I find it really sad and and really very very worrying. And that's why looking

very worrying. And that's why looking like a normal person, having a face that moves, having all of the wrinkles that my 50 years hopefully show um that

matters a great deal because I again I want to lead by example. I want for young women to look at my body, my face, and go, "Oh, that's a normal one." You

know, there might not be that many of us being the normal ones, but it's important and it matters. And I know that the women in my industry who I I admire the most of all, >> they're completely normal, gorgeous,

beautiful women at the age of 70, 75, 80.

>> And um it's reassuring that we have those people to look up to. We all want someone to look up to. And I think I think if um if we can be decent women um

in today's world and be kind to ourselves and to others, >> I think it's important.

>> Being kind to yourself is so huge. Like

one of my best mates always says to me if I'm, you know, she's the person I'll call in a crisis or if I'm not dealing with something well and she'll always say, "Okay, I'm listening to everything you're saying and I and I hear it and I

get it. Just don't turn the gun on

get it. Just don't turn the gun on yourself." No.

yourself." No.

>> And that always stays with me if I'm having a tough time because I definitely probably more so used to have the propensity to go, "Oh, yeah. I am a I'm a shitty person. I'm awful." and I will

just regurgitate anything that I've heard about myself, especially when I was younger and, you know, exposed to press stories about me or whatever. Were

there times where you didn't have that level of self-compassion like your younger self?

>> Yes. I think I think when I was a teenager, um, and I'm talking like when I was, you know 14 15 16 because I was quite chubby then, like

actually uncomfortable.

um in a way that also didn't really add up. You know, I think hormonally there

up. You know, I think hormonally there was probably stuff going on. Um and

yeah, I definitely had days when I'd look in the mirror and think, "Okay, I'm not going to look in the mirror again today." Or I'd put a sheet over the

today." Or I'd put a sheet over the door, the the door with the mirror on it. Um definitely things like that. Um I

it. Um definitely things like that. Um I

don't think I ever felt ashamed of myself, but definitely self-conscious.

And I was teased as a child, as a younger child at primary school for being a bit on the stocky side. Um,

children can be cruel to other children.

And uh, and that that that kills me actually. Um,

actually. Um, >> it's terrible because an environment in a school classroom can really make or break a child's life in school. And

school should be somewhere where you feel looked after, supported, >> and educated. Um, and it should be a place where you make friends and people who are going to have your back.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh, and I didn't have that actually. I

know it sounds like a bit of a sob story, but I didn't really have that. So

when I look back on my childhood and I you know sort of think oh god who who are the friends I've got from you know from childhood from those days actually I've got a nice handful of really great

friends who I met much later in my teenage years um a few people from secondary school actually like two and uh and then from

when I started working when I went out into the world and I was cast in a in a film when I was 17 years old I started to really make great friends who became the keepers >> um and are still a part of my life

today.

>> Yeah. So important.

>> Yeah.

>> Have you ever done that thing where you kind of go back and you and you mentally say, "I'm going to embrace that little 14-year-old me and I'm going to I'm going to give her all the love that she

didn't necessarily feel she got." Then I certainly got a huge amount of love from my family. That's that's one thing I

my family. That's that's one thing I will say. And my mom and dad, in spite

will say. And my mom and dad, in spite of how little we had, were always absolutely brilliant at, you know, saying, "Oh, the sun's out. Let's go for a drive." you know, let's jump in a

a drive." you know, let's jump in a river or climb a tree or my parents were extraordinary at encouraging us to be in the outside world, which I think is so

important, especially today. Um, so I felt the love from my family, but yeah, if I was to go back, yeah, I definitely, it's interesting actually before I turned 40, the night before I turned 40

10 years ago, I actually had a dream where I walked into a classroom and saw my younger self.

>> Whoa. It was really extraordinary. Um,

you're probably going to get loads of messages from, you know, holistic practitioners about what that actually >> meant. But I really did. I walked into a

>> meant. But I really did. I walked into a classroom as myself. I was a grown-up. I

was poised. I was graceful. And I was just going to see all these children.

And I was sat there.

>> Wow.

>> And it was incredible.

>> That's so moving.

>> It was very moving. And I went and I and I sat with my younger self.

Mustn't get emotional now because it was such an amazing dream. But I said to my younger self, "It's okay. Slow down.

It's okay." It was bizarre >> and very clear to me. And I don't particularly remember dreams or even write them down. I've never written down a dream. But it was so vivid. Um, and I

a dream. But it was so vivid. Um, and I do remember thinking, "Oh, yeah. Maybe I

can slow down. Maybe I can just chill for a bit and enjoy the things that I've done about those achievements." It's quite hard to take a moment and go, "Oh, >> I did well."

>> Yeah.

>> Well done me. Do you still find that now? Because I am beyond guilty of that.

now? Because I am beyond guilty of that.

I find it terrifying to think that there's even a week where I'm not incredibly busy trying to juggle 10 different jobs. And I and I kind of know

different jobs. And I and I kind of know the root of all of my things. Like, oh

yeah, I know I'm feeling that fear again that everything's it's all going to go everything's going and I won't have a job and it's all going to disappear. I

still have a bit of that going on all these years later. You still have that drive. Oh, yeah. I still have I still

drive. Oh, yeah. I still have I still have all of that. Um, and partly because I always want to be doing this job, so I never want people to not keep inviting me back to the party because I really like being at the party. It's great fun.

Um, no, I definitely think I definitely think as women and in this country, I don't know that we're necessarily very good at telling each other, "My god, well done. I was so impressed and proud

well done. I was so impressed and proud of you for doing that." I don't think we're very good at that. And I also don't think we're very good at saying openly. I was really really proud of

openly. I was really really proud of myself for that thing I did because, you know, I was up against it, but I bloody pulled it off.

>> Very unbritish.

>> Very unbritish. But but I do that. And

and in the last 10 years in particular, I've been very consciously doing that.

And I think it's because I want to make sure that my children hear that and emulate that and know that it's okay to say I was I was proud of myself with how I handled that situation or how I spoke

to that person or the job that I did.

Um, I think it's important to show a bit of, you know, self self-love and gratitude.

>> Yeah.

>> In in that way and and a bit of self-ride and subsequently rest and feel all right about it.

>> Yeah. Well, that I do find hard to do.

The resting and feeling all right about it, >> you know, I always think, why am I sitting down? I need to stand up again.

sitting down? I need to stand up again.

>> Same. I know.

>> So bad.

>> Yeah, it's terrible.

>> Even having a bath, I'm like, oh, I've been in here a little bit too long. I

need to get out and do something. Clean

covered out.

>> You have baths. You have time for baths.

>> Very rarely. I'm talking like once every two weeks. I'm like,

two weeks. I'm like, >> I can't get in. I can't sit there. It

all takes too long.

>> Things to do.

>> Or even running it.

>> Oh, it takes too long. [laughter] Really

like, oh, come on. Oh, now the water's gone cold. Now it's gone cold. Ned, the

gone cold. Now it's gone cold. Ned, the

water's gone cold again. [laughter] So,

I know the answer to this question is not going to be in the bath. Where is

your happy place?

>> No, it's not in the bath. An ice bath, different matter.

>> Oh, are you into the ice bathing?

>> Oh, yeah. God, yeah. It's It's so fantastic. Are you Is that a daily

fantastic. Are you Is that a daily thing?

>> Uh, no, it's not really daily just because I can't always figure out a way to pull it off daily. Um, certainly cold water, very cold water. The colder the

better. It makes you feel fantastic and

better. It makes you feel fantastic and it's impossible. It's impossible to

it's impossible. It's impossible to regret it. You can never regret getting

regret it. You can never regret getting in the cold water even for 30 seconds.

>> Um, I'm not sure I would say that that's my happy place. My real happy place is there's a couple of different ones

really, but quite honestly, anywhere where it's me, Ned, and the kids, and it's just us, and we're all in the same space, that is somewhere I do feel

incredibly happy. Another place that I

incredibly happy. Another place that I feel very, very happy is walking through a like a snowy forest.

>> Oh, yeah. There's something about the stillness and the silence and the beauty of it that almost

gives me hope in the time before this time. And what I mean by that is not

time. And what I mean by that is not Neanderthal times and cavemen and etc. Not that at all, but just the time

before this digital age when things were simpler and life was quieter. And I do have an iPhone. I still grapple with the fact that I have one. Am talking very

seriously about getting rid of it in the new year. But even I and I don't have

new year. But even I and I don't have social media. I do find myself just

social media. I do find myself just scrolling too long on that news page.

You know, why am I playing Wordscapes?

Why am I like, [laughter] you know, wh why? I don't want to be staring at this

why? I don't want to be staring at this stuff. I don't want it at all. Um, and

stuff. I don't want it at all. Um, and

so there's something about the stillness of being in snow, in nature in that way.

Not walking alone, always with somebody else. I love conversation. And also long

else. I love conversation. And also long walks with my family, with my kids.

Those conversations have always been fantastic and a really big part of our lives is where we share a lot of creativity and story ideas. Joe would

share a lot of his ideas for Goodbye June on long walks together and uh my kids have tested me on lines on long walks, you know, and now the same thing happens with them.

>> Yeah.

>> Um >> and so there's there's something about being outside walking um that is very special to me and makes me happy and it doesn't matter what the

weather's doing, but preferably cold.

>> Same. Yeah.

>> I love a good old ramble. Oh, it's

heaven.

>> There's nothing better. Gorgeous.

>> Well, I'm so thrilled to have spoken to you today and how exciting that Goodbye June is going to be released into the world for everybody to see.

>> I know Joe and I are like, "Oh my god, people are going to see it."

>> It's so exciting.

>> It's quite it's it's a it's a very exciting and uh and bizarre feeling and I do feel proud of it and I feel proud of ourselves. I feel proud as a woman to

of ourselves. I feel proud as a woman to have done this. Um, it sort of feels like it marks the beginning of maybe a new chapter in my life. Um, and makes me

feel like, yeah, woohoo, bring on my 50s baby.

>> It's um, yeah, it it feels exciting.

>> Too, right, well, look, good luck with all of it and thank you so much for today.

>> Pleasure. Thank you for having me.