Kill Your Startup’s Knowledge Chaos with OpenClaw (with Oliver Henry and Jeff Weisbein) | E2254

All right, everybody. Welcome back. It's

Twist. It's Monday, February 23rd, 2026.

Alex is back. How you doing, Alex?

>> I'm fantastic. Snowed in and looking forward to just eating a lot of soup for the next couple of days.

>> Ah, yes, it is a snowstorm. I talked to my mom or I I texted with my mom. Lots

of uh snow in Brooklyn.

>> And by lots, I mean a foot, >> maybe 18 inches, which is nothing. You

guys should get a broom and just sweep your stoops. That's nothing compared to

your stoops. That's nothing compared to what happened in Tahoe last week where I almost bit the bullet. I mean, I learned a lot of lessons, Alex. Number one,

don't ski alone in a blizzard. Number

two, uh, yeah, don't ski alone in a blizzard.

Okay.

>> And number three, uh, carry a shovel and a beacon in a blizzard. I'm on a very gingerly blue trail. One of my skis came off. That happens sometimes when you're

off. That happens sometimes when you're in powder. And so I fell over. Probably

in powder. And so I fell over. Probably

about five, six feet of snow has fallen in three days. And so I pop back up instinctually like, "Oh, I fell. I pop

back up to get my ski." I reach for my ski and all the snow just goes and I mean it collapses like two feet and then it goes two feet to the left.

So I fall over. Only my head and one arm are above the snow line and I'm like, "Oh no." And I look to my left and I'm

"Oh no." And I look to my left and I'm right by the trees. There's a thing called the tree well around a tree.

Alex, I'm giving this little preamble because I don't want anybody to die.

Um, the tree wells is just like a pocket of air basically that forms around the tree when the snow is not there. And

then if you slide into that, you die because you could go literally six, seven, eight feet down and then the snow collapses on top of you. Game over.

>> So I'm like, "Oh no, I can't hit that street." So now I have one hand and I

street." So now I have one hand and I can't move the other one. I'm digging

the other hand out. I finally after five t minutes dig myself out, get the skis, dig those out. And I'm like crawling on top of my skis with my poles just trying to get back onto the trail. Uh it was

pretty pretty scary. So I'm not going to be stupid. Next year I will not ski

be stupid. Next year I will not ski alone in a blizzard and I'm going to >> uh you know that like chase cars you know that follow a car behind or like a support yacht that follows another yacht. You need like a support skier who

yacht. You need like a support skier who just kind of goes behind you and then shoots up a flare gun if you ever eat it because >> we we have a name for it. It's called a guide.

>> You need a guide. a guide, you know, if you can afford it, you could have a guide. So, I should have had a guide if

guide. So, I should have had a guide if I was going to go out alone. And uh I didn't. And so then the next two days I

didn't. And so then the next two days I skied, I just met random people on the mountain. I was like, "Are you alone?"

mountain. I was like, "Are you alone?"

Like, "Yeah." I was like, "You want to ski together?" Guy was like, "Are you

ski together?" Guy was like, "Are you Jal?" I was like, "Yeah." He recognized

Jal?" I was like, "Yeah." He recognized my voice. I wear like a full mask.

my voice. I wear like a full mask.

>> Imagine all of that money being spent on skiing when you could actually go out and go snowboarding like a cool person.

Sad times, Jason. But maybe we'll convert one of these.

>> Plenty of snowboarders out there having a good time. All right. So we got it's uh the year of our lord AO29 after openclaw. We're 29 days into this

after openclaw. We're 29 days into this and a lot has occurred. Alex I did I called like a code red at the company. I

had like three people working on openclaw not on the podcast but like actually building agents and I said hey just have five people get together this weekend and learn how to use openclaw

just you know no pressure just on a Sunday if you opt in. And like I think 15 people opted in. So, they did training all Sunday. Everybody got up to

speed on it. And

now I'm starting to think that I'm going to wind up buying everybody in the company a Mac studio to be running their

agent locally because you you you run into roadblocks with this open glove.

For people who don't know, openclaw, open source agent technology. We're

going to talk about it today. We're

going to talk about it until it stop until it stops becoming a massive um what we the way to say this a massive accelerant

>> to efficiency in corporations. I'll stop

talking about it when it slows down. But

it's speeding up. It's speeding up away from even me and my team because we've been in this since day one. Basic not

day one. We've been in it for 29 days and it was around for maybe two weeks before that. We've been in it and we

before that. We've been in it and we feel like we can't keep up with the changes that are happening. But I think you need, Alex, to have your own desktop. Why? People are starting to

desktop. Why? People are starting to block the agents.

>> Yes.

>> I think Gemini today said they're going to block it. I think Claude's blocking it on one of their plans. And other

services like Reddit, they want you to use the API. X wants you to use the API.

So when you go and ask it, hey, can you go to X and pull out my DMs and put them into a table for me because I don't have time to read them. Can you go get my LinkedIn messages? can you go do some

LinkedIn messages? can you go do some research for me? Can you get a Reddit account and log in every day and summarize this stuff? It's like, I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do

do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. But if you're on a desktop

that. But if you're on a desktop machine, you can kind of spoof it, you know, do it in a browser window with the clawed extension or an extension or

whatever. Long story short, um, this

whatever. Long story short, um, this thing is worth the investment. And

anybody who's listening to my voice, go back and listen to all the other previous OpenClaw episodes. I think we have an open claw playlist or just go backwards in reverse chronological order. I think every episode we're

order. I think every episode we're talking 50 to 100% about this technology. Never seen anything like it

technology. Never seen anything like it in my career. Never seen anything like it in my career. It's the equivalent of broadband, the internet itself, cloud, mobile, roll it all up into one. This AI

boom has manifested in open claw and openclaw standing on the shoulders of a lot of giants. The manifestation that I'm seeing right now is unlike anything

I've seen in my career. It's like taking five giant waves and putting them together into a tsunami. I think we'll be able to automate 10% of our work a

week, 5% a week. Doesn't seem like a lot, but I thought it would be five or 10% a month. And I was happy with that.

But 5% a week compounding means, hey, listen, every 14 15 weeks, we're going to be doubling our efficiency. I'm

looking for things for it to do. I'm

giving it access to everything. And I'll

talk at the end of the show about some of the things I'm building that are Alex if you remind me >> scary and every CEO's dream scary

every CEO's dream >> all right so we have Oliver Henry by day he works at revenue cat at night he is an openclaw hacker he is the guy behind the basically viral Larry skill and he's

building a product called Larry brain that we'll talk about later on Oliver welcome to the show >> thank you very much for having me it's uh it's been on hell of a journey the last couple of weeks going from just

under a thousand followers on X to talking about Larry and what he's succeeded and now I'm on almost 13. So

it's been it's been a crazy couple of weeks.

>> I feel like we're all in the same time warp including my dear friend Jeff. Jeff

is a solarreneur four products to his name and he uses OpenClaw to help automate and extend himself and he's built some really cool tools including tips for newcomers. Jeff, welcome to the show.

>> Thanks Alex. Really glad to be here. Uh

I open Claw has changed my entire soloreneur lifestyle. Uh it's it's been

soloreneur lifestyle. Uh it's it's been incredible the amount of things I've been able to automate like Jason was saying earlier. I I look for things all

saying earlier. I I look for things all the time and I'm always integrating new new things that people have built skills or even building my own. I built one for Reddit the other day because they have one for called Bird. I'm sure you're

familiar with it if you're using OpenClaw for for Twitter, but they don't really have one for Reddit. So I I built a similar type of tool and put that online, open sourced it. thought that

was pretty.

>> Tell us about or show us that tool because that's the tool I need right now. One of my big blockers is I'm

now. One of my big blockers is I'm always trying to get the recent trends off of Reddit and then it winds up doing a Google search and digesting those pages. I wish Reddit would just come up

pages. I wish Reddit would just come up with a pro account >> and let me pay 50 bucks a month to have my open claw have an account on Reddit.

Like I should have my account and then Reddit. Steve Huffman, you're awesome.

Reddit. Steve Huffman, you're awesome.

Congratulations on all the success of Reddit of late. Here's my plan. Uh, I

will pay 50 bucks a month, maybe even a hundred as a power user to Reddit. Be

happily pay this. I want to have my account, which is like Jason Caliganis or Jason Malicanis, be able to add my replicant. So, I get to add it. I'm

replicant. So, I get to add it. I'm

responsible for it. So, I will say, you know, I'm not going to let it post. I'm

not going to let it do anything nefarious, but I want it to be able to follow my activity and do its own activities. What are the own activities

activities. What are the own activities I want to do? I just want to keep a breast of conversations. This weekend I had uh Claude code and I was doing with openclaw as well. Uh claw a co claude

co-work trying to make a weekly dossier for Thursday. Alex of everything that every

Thursday. Alex of everything that every Austin newspaper subreddit mentioned was on tap for the weekend or might be interesting that weekend. I did it. It

worked. It wound up getting some things from Yelp and uh got some things from uh Reddit and the two restaurants I went to Saturday and Sunday with the kids were

selected by my open claw and claude co-work. Pretty crazy moment.

co-work. Pretty crazy moment.

>> So you you've actually you're now an agentic parent, Jason.

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Well, yeah. And I I think it's time for Reddit to recognize this or X to recognize it. And just let me add this

recognize it. And just let me add this account and pair it with me. This would

be a way to say, "We know that agents are on these services, but this one is being paid for and I'm responsible for their behavior." Just like if I took you

their behavior." Just like if I took you to a poker game, Alex, and you got drunk and threw the chips in the air, whatever. You caused a ruckus. Like,

whatever. You caused a ruckus. Like,

it's my responsibility. And you could just limit it. Like, I don't have to go I'm not going to go crazy and scrape all of Reddit. I just like I have 20 topics

of Reddit. I just like I have 20 topics I want to keep a breast of. That's all.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I'm going to So, here is the red skill that Jeff put together. Jeff, for folks who don't

together. Jeff, for folks who don't know, Bird, explain to them what it does and why we need this.

>> So, Bird uh for OpenClaw just basically lets you search and reply to people uh on on Twitter or X um your OpenClaw account. And what Red does is it uses

account. And what Red does is it uses the cookies uh through Safari the same way Bird does for Twitter, but for Reddit. and it'll let you. And what I've

Reddit. and it'll let you. And what I've done, like what you're looking to do, Jason, is I when Discord recently made the announcement that they were doing the face scans and uploading all that

data, there was a pretty big backlash.

And one of the products I've built is kind of a social chat app. And um and so I was trying to capitalize on opportunity. So I I went to Reddit

opportunity. So I I went to Reddit because a lot of people were looking for alternatives and I just had it kind of search through and find me the best opportunities that way.

Have other people picked it up? Is it

popular? This new new skill?

>> Uh, I haven't really put it out there very much, honestly. I just I just uploaded it because I thought someone else might eventually stumble across it.

>> Man, that is the worst marketing job from one of the best marketers I know I've ever heard. That's incredible. Uh,

Oliver, I want to bring you in here because your skill Larry interacts with Tik Tok and I'm curious if you've run into the same sort of permissions issues that Jason is describing over there on

the short video front.

Yeah. So, I have hit a ton of problems with trying to get these open claw machines on any social media. So, as you touched on, the crackdown of these agents is I think really against the

grain to where things are heading. I

believe that these social media companies should embrace the the open claw overlords and let them on the platform and it's a great way to get that extra bit of monetization.

Currently, the people using Open Claw machines and are fortunate enough to be buying Mac minis, etc. likely can afford the extra subscription to help them

become even more powerful. So, at the moment, I'm paying for X APIs. I'm

paying for um all these different APIs for all my agents. So, I may as well pay for Reddit. I may as well pay for, I

for Reddit. I may as well pay for, I don't know, even Facebook if that's your target audience.

>> How are you using it? And if you have a demo, feel free to share it. But how are you using your agents on X?

>> So I've just created a skill that would help with the launch of Larry Brain. So

when I launched it, there was a ton of questions and I directed everyone to just Larry and then on Larry's own Twitter account, he uses the official X

API to just monitor his engagements and I've created a open- source Zenesk alternative. So Larry automatically

alternative. So Larry automatically creates tickets. He assigns them a crit

creates tickets. He assigns them a crit criticality and also suggest fixes. So I

can then go through, see what the tickets are, see if they're legit, see if they're needed, and then I've got a button that just presses fix.

>> Larry is your product. It's

larbrain.com. Am I correct?

>> So I've got larbrain.com, but that's stemmed from the Larry Tik Tok skill, which I can, >> right? Which I was hoping you could show

>> right? Which I was hoping you could show us Oliver.

>> Yes. So this is my Larry skill. This is

Larry, his chat. I use WhatsApp. And

this is basically the output. So I'll

scroll up so you can see what he's been doing. But he gets revenue cap analytics

doing. But he gets revenue cap analytics and creates Tik Tok content to drive downloads and conversions to my apps.

They're his goals. When I first set up Larry, his goal, I told him, was to make more money. So we did this by marketing

more money. So we did this by marketing my app. So, I created a Snuggly app,

my app. So, I created a Snuggly app, which was a revenue cat internal hackathon, and I decided that I want to market it. I've notoriously always hated

market it. I've notoriously always hated marketing. I've had an app for two years

marketing. I've had an app for two years that I've been trying to automate the marketing for for a very long time, and Open Craw finally gave me all the skills and all the connections I need to be

able to do it in a a good way. So Larry

has access to all my engagements all the way through the top of the funnel at Tik Tok all the way down to the new users and conversions using Revenue Cat APIs.

So here you can see the the comments we've got and we can scroll down to him suggesting hooks. So these are hooks

suggesting hooks. So these are hooks based off the data of what is performing on Tik Tok. You make software tools. You

want to market them and the way you're marketing them is through Tik Tok videos. You created a an agent with

videos. You created a an agent with OpenClaw called Larry. You told Larry, "Make me more money." And you gave Larry

access to the Tik Tok data by logging into your account, I assume, or using some third party tool. And it told it

how many comments, how many views, etc., you got for each one. Then you

asked it based on that come up with ideas, editorial ideas based on those previous ones. Correct.

previous ones. Correct.

>> So what was his best idea here?

>> So what Larry does, he actually does all that himself. I don't feed him anything.

that himself. I don't feed him anything.

So Larry will post and then daily he will look at the Tik Tok content and see what is performing. See how his post yesterday's performed all the way through Tik Tok interactions and views

to new users on the app and conversions on the app.

>> So what suggestion did he come up with?

Yeah, let's let's read it out loud so he can the audience can get the benefit here.

>> So based on historical data that we've already uploaded, he can see that emotional family hooks get the most views. So, we got 413,000 views uh for

views. So, we got 413,000 views uh for mom and dad hooks, 202,000 for the ones starting with Nan, and then landlord conflicts are consistently 100 to

200,000 views. So, based on that data,

200,000 views. So, based on that data, he has suggested certain hooks. So, my

landlord said redecorating would lower the property value. So, I showed her what AI design, what AI can do for our bathroom, and now she's asking to do that to her flat, too. My nan keeps

saying, "How do you put in there?" Uh

yeah, for that one, the second suggestion, it also put a skull in there, which is something that like Gen Z does. They put a skull in

Z does. They put a skull in >> to like express like I'm dead. And then

it actually gave a call a CTA uh a call to action. Screenshot it and show your

to action. Screenshot it and show your landlord link in bio. So, not only is it studying it, it's coming up with, you know, even the call to action and the copy, which is really great. Now, does

it actually make an ad?

>> Yes. So, then it's interesting on the call to action. I want to touch on that.

So, the call to action, Larry knows that if a Tik Tok gets a lot of views, but not many new users have that app cuz he's got all the context of what happens in the app, he knows that the CTA needs

fixing. He knows if it got a lot of

fixing. He knows if it got a lot of views, not many users download the app, the CTA needs fixing. If it got not many views, but a big percentage of those viewers downloaded the app, the hook needs fixing and the CTA is fine. So,

it's all iterative. This is all Larry making these decisions. And then he creates images using OpenAI image chat

GBT image 1.5 and he'll create the images to make the his story from the slideshow and then overlay the text and post it using posters which is also

where he gets the analytics from and all I have to do is for example there there will be one ready. So, I can go to my Tik Tok. I get this platform

Tik Tok. I get this platform notification, not this Gen Viral one, but there'll be one from Larry somewhere. So, this is a an old one from

somewhere. So, this is a an old one from 5 days ago that I didn't get around to posting. And I just click this. And this

posting. And I just click this. And this

is what Larry's created. And all I have to do is add the sound and a description. Now,

description. Now, >> so he puts it in your draft folder. So,

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The only reason a human is in the loop because Tik Tok knows if something's posted through API. So, this circles all the way back around to what you were saying about platforms not not really

catering for the APIs. Tik Tok will really nerf the amount of views that you get if you post through an API and you can't publish a slideshow with sound through that API. So, the only reason I

do this is not to get it checked. It is

for engagement. So, I can add the sound >> and I can show you that if I add the sound and then click next, Larry already has the description. So, all I have to do is add the sound,

>> press post, and I do that simply for engagement. And I can show you the I

engagement. And I can show you the I won't post this one, but I can show you the the profile how it's performing.

>> So, the last one didn't do too good, but you can see that we've had 160,000 views 130,000 200,000.

This one got 400,000. But then we try some and they don't work. So, this one gets 2,000. He tries something new. Now,

gets 2,000. He tries something new. Now,

we know it doesn't work. we won't try it again. So, every now and then he'll

again. So, every now and then he'll throw a new one in there to see how it performs and then we'll go back to what's working. So,

what's working. So, >> there is some experience.

>> How did you do this pre how did you do this previously?

>> Oh, so this previously I was writing scripts to do this. So, I had a football related app soccer in the US and I would

write a script to create hook and demo videos. So, I would record loads of

videos. So, I would record loads of hooks of my face, have one demo of the app, and then I would write us all my hooks in a text file, and then the script would just mash them all

together. So, put the two videos

together. So, put the two videos together and put different text, and then I would bulk upload them to upload via API each.

>> So, it was basically you were doing all this work. Now, this is free from doing

this work. Now, this is free from doing it as the soloreneur.

>> And it has saved me so much time. and

over 3,000 people are now using Larry and the feedback has been incredible.

So, I really think I've done a net positive for for Open Claw and for a lot of people who also hate marketing as much as I do.

>> Uh Oliver, one more thing from you. So,

we were going over this in a pre-all and I was like, can you show it to me live and you said no because I'm using batch processing from I think it was through OpenAI. Can you just explain why you

OpenAI. Can you just explain why you made that choice and why other people might want to consider using that in their open claw setup?

>> To preface, Larry doesn't just post slideshows. He the core of Larry is the

slideshows. He the core of Larry is the full analytic funnel from top to bottom.

And no matter what your product is, he can track um metrics to a website, he can track downloads to an app, he can track product purchases, but you can

create whatever content you want. I

created it with GBT image 1.5 because the app Snugly is an interior design app that transforms your room using AI and it uses GPT image 1.5. So, I just wanted

the content to match what the user is going to see in the app. You can use anything you want. I use the batch processing because it's recently come

out from OpenAI and it just saves money on the processes. So, it the benefit is Larry can then post create all the slideshows in the morning to post throughout the day and it just saves me

a ton of money posting them. I mean,

this is >> creating them at the time >> and and it's literally I think when people the reason I'm so stuck on this, Alex, and making sure we show over and over and over again how people are building this, the people who are the

tip of the spears is we're going to see this solo entrepreneur movement uh or just you know two three person company but instead of doing what they

used to do which is having to hire people to do all these job functions the last three years what I saw founders doing was asking chat at GPT

and they would ask it how do I write a press release? How do I do a job

press release? How do I do a job description? How do I negotiate uh a a

description? How do I negotiate uh a a convertible note? What's the difference

convertible note? What's the difference between a convertible note and a safe?

How do I file a trademark? How do I negotiate a domain purchase? All this

stuff and they would get educated really fast. So they became like superhuman. It

fast. So they became like superhuman. It

was like Keano Reeves in the Matrix sitting down. They plug him in and he

sitting down. They plug him in and he wakes up and he knows kung fu. Now this

is totally different. This is like I'm going to make a replicant who goes out in the world and it goes and learns and it goes and does something. And the f

the the failure of humans is our inconsistency. And the success of

inconsistency. And the success of computers is their consistency. And

that's why it's been this great collaboration for the last 50 years or so. But the challenge has always been

so. But the challenge has always been the computers aren't very creative or iterative and that you it's hard you have to write code to get them to understand it. Now you don't have to

understand it. Now you don't have to write code. You talk in English and it's

write code. You talk in English and it's recursive. And this is where we really

recursive. And this is where we really have to pause for a second and appreciate what Oliver is doing. Oliver

is building this, right? He's having

Larry, his replicant, recursively learn how to get better and better and better at the job. You and I, Alex, if we were going to do a job, like we try to get

better, but we forget. We got lives, we got kids, or we got sleep, you got to eat, sometimes you get sick. These

things are now going and learning. Now

Oliver, are you doing any other like training for your replicant other than just on its own work? Because what we did is internally we set up every Sunday and Saturday that one of our replicants

goes and does the latest research for only the past week on how to do better titles, how to do better thumbnails, etc., etc. It came back this week and

said Mr. Beast released how they're doing thumbnails now. and it summarized it for us on Sunday and I saw it. I

would never I would have remembered, "Oh, I got to get better at thumbnails."

And it said, "Oh, Mr. Beast is using a heat map piece of software that's available. They put 50 thumbnails in it.

available. They put 50 thumbnails in it.

They test it across x number of people.

Then they take the top five thumbnails and then they do a a second test with those top five and see which ones do better." And I was like, "Oh, heat maps

better." And I was like, "Oh, heat maps for thumbnails. That might be a little

for thumbnails. That might be a little too much for a podcast, but that's kind of interesting, right?" So, we're having it go out and teach itself. Oliver, have

you thought of that? Like go out on Reddit and X and YouTube and find people talking about how to get better at a skill.

>> Yes. So, not not particularly the skill, but when I first created Larry, I installed him and I headed out the house. I went to a soccer match and I

house. I went to a soccer match and I was in the stadium knowing exactly what I want to do, texting him about the goal of this marketing that I wanted to achieve. And the first thing we did was

achieve. And the first thing we did was send him into the world on X using the bird skill before it sort of got became a gray area with X and sent him the

accounts that I follow that show post slideshow content marketing content for apps. And I had him just research all

apps. And I had him just research all that data and see what worked just to get to a point where we could start. And

now I don't really have to do that anymore because he's he's building his own data. And of course, this is going

own data. And of course, this is going to vary by product to product. So, you

just have to start. And if you're not getting the hundred, tens of thousands of views to start, just wildly create different content. Tell your agent, use

different content. Tell your agent, use the Larry skill. Say, create different content until something works. At the

very bottom of this page, we experimented with faces. So, people with different reactions, they didn't get any views. And then, as soon as we posted

views. And then, as soon as we posted this one, 20,000 views, and we were doubled down, and it's taken off. So

just do it until what works and it will learn itself. It's pretty pretty

learn itself. It's pretty pretty special.

>> Jeeoff, this iterative process we're describing reminds me a little bit of your your core loop setup that you have as part of your OpenClaw guide here. One

thing that I was curious about is how you have humans built in here. This is

you reviewing and kind of course scratching what your agent does. So can

you talk us through the core loop and then um we have that demo planned. Let's

let's do it.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, so basically the the way the core loop works is I am still involved in the process but the but the process is is everything is is run through open clause. So I essentially

text it through iMessage. Uh I will send it screenshots of the apps I'm working on all the all the things I'm working on bug reports any kind of console logging and then it just kind of figures it out.

What I've realized is when I used to do this man manually before openclaw existed 30 days ago, 29 days ago, >> um I would have to manually like think

of an idea of how how I wanted to build a feature into my app, kind of run through clawed code with it and have it spec it out and figure all this stuff out. But what what I'm realizing now is

out. But what what I'm realizing now is when a computer is talking to another computer, I feel like it's just smarter.

It just get they get each other better for some reason. Like the features that it is producing are of much higher quality and better value, less bugs right out of the gate than when I'm

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So, what what I've done in my system in OpenClaw is I've built in additional memory that logs every day. If it's not written down, it's not it's not remembered. So everything that I send

remembered. So everything that I send it, it's remembering. And I just built in recently share core memory that between the different agents that I have. I have four. I have FUBS, I have

have. I have four. I have FUBS, I have Quill, I have uh uh patches and scout.

And those guys now communicate with one another. So wouldn't it be helpful if

another. So wouldn't it be helpful if the code knew what the marketing you know uh agent was doing? So that way when it wrote the copy that it actually wrote copy that was aligned with the

feature set. So how do you sync that

feature set. So how do you sync that memory file between them or just point them all to one file? Because that's not default in open claw, is it? Because

each one has their own memory.

>> So >> So that's actually I I I sent a link to Alex earlier uh to an open the my starter kit that I built out of put on GitHub. Um and and it has all that kind

GitHub. Um and and it has all that kind of built into it. Essentially what we're doing because as you as you noted the memory doesn't exist in like the vanilla open claw. uh it's a memory.mmd file and

open claw. uh it's a memory.mmd file and basically it you know it it gets more knowledge every day and as you maintain it um and you feed it more information like I'll send it links

>> to uh tweets or articles that I think uh that are worth reading that it should know about and now proactively when I'm building in the future it'll know about that article or that tweet I sent it

like and it'll be and it'll say well here's what you know Jason said on Twitter about ex you know the future of open claw and where it's headed and maybe you should consider this before you build this feature, you know, uh

type of >> uh so it it it's I think the I think getting it to be as proactive as possible is really more important than automating as much as possible, so to speak. You want it to make your life

speak. You want it to make your life faster, easier, and the and the and the real the real kind of throttle is how fast you can make good decisions, you know, at the end of the day.

>> So, show us uh Fubs. You have a demo of that from iMessage and how you use it.

And uh same thing with Oliver. Just make

sure you sports cast as you talk through what you're showing us.

>> Sure. I'm going to share my my iMessage window with Fubs. Uh right here. Hold on

one second.

>> Jeeoff, I'm not going to lie. What I

have to ask, why is it called Fubs?

>> Okay, so this is this is pretty crazy, but um I I had a I started a web forum called Best Techie when I was a 13-year-old kid. And uh on the web

13-year-old kid. And uh on the web forum, there was a guy who registered and his name was Fubs. and I always thought it was a great name and I just stole it.

>> Sorry.

>> Um here I'm sharing my screen now. Um so

what I'm going to do is I'm just going to start recording us talking and if Jason or Alex want to give out, you know, essentially where you want to build a landing page to talk about whatever it is you want to talk about.

>> Um >> All right. Uh I'll take a stab at that.

Um, Fubs, could you build me a a landing page that describes how Jason Kellakish should ski safely in the future to ensure stability here at Launch Company?

>> Cool. All right. So, I'm going to save this. I'm going to send it to FUBS.

this. I'm going to send it to FUBS.

>> So, while we're waiting for that, Jeff, what is the method by which you're getting the audio um handled on the open claw side?

So the audio, this is just standard uh through iMessage audio. Uh it basically OpenClaw I think I believe does have

um I I I you know sometimes I forget what what what comes out of the box, but I believe you can send in messages out of the box.

>> Oh, I didn't know that.

>> I learned something.

>> I'm not sure exactly if that comes out of the box or not, but you can you can do it. Um essentially, so I just talk to

do it. Um essentially, so I just talk to it usually via text. I don't talk to it that much. Although te talking is I

that much. Although te talking is I think honestly the future where we should be looking uh is a lot of voice based stuff.

>> I agree with you. I'm starting to now get frustrated. This is how entitled I

get frustrated. This is how entitled I am with my open claw. Uh I am getting frustrated with having to type and

instruct it. And I am I'm literally like

instruct it. And I am I'm literally like let's skip the voice and just put it into my brain. like give me a neural link so I can just think what I want. Um

but I think this is a short-term thing because onboarding these is like I think like onboarding a new employee but an

employee who is in works infinite hours at an infinitely faster speed. So I

guess we have to maybe just accept the fact that it's going to take you know 30 days to obsolete ourselves which is I kind of feel is happening. We had um Matt Van

Horn on from the last 30 days a couple times and I think he was the guy using a a specific mic on his desk Jason and then whisper flow to talk to it and in the moment I was like that's a little bit fussy. Why do you need that? But

bit fussy. Why do you need that? But

I've also found the same thing that when I'm typing to any any AI not just opencloud but even like a chat GPT instance it feels incredibly slow because I can talk I think a little faster than I can type even though I can

type pretty quickly. And so suddenly it feels like I'm walking through mud. And

that's not how I've ever felt before using a computer. I felt fast before, but now I feel slow. So I think this is like demanding new interfaces.

>> I joke now that I can only I'm moving at the speed of compute because I can only go as fast as the computer lets me go sometimes.

>> Yeah. All right. Here we go. Keep Jason

safe on the mountain. A website.

>> Yeah. So this is a pretty simple demo, Jason. But what what fubs can do and

Jason. But what what fubs can do and what Jeff showed me um offline was that he's also using it to hunt down bugs and build features and that sort of thing, but that's not very visually appealing.

So, we settled on this to show it off in practice.

>> Love it.

>> Yeah. So, essentially what this did was it put together this entire website for you. Uh I can send you a link. I'll put

you. Uh I can send you a link. I'll put

it in the chat. But basically, and then it spun it up on Versel and uh and now it's available for everyone to visit.

But a lot of the stuff that I'm doing is really like troubleshoot like doing things in real time. So like I don't think pull requests should be a thing anymore. Like you should be able to fix

anymore. Like you should be able to fix things pretty much instantaneously if you feel if you see a bug. And that's

pretty much what I'm doing. And so for example, I can I can show you the fave icon on my website for Cackles uh which is my social app wasn't working. So I

said fix the fave icon on Cackles. And

this is what it did. It found the issue.

Uh there's no fave icon and then it pushed it pushed an update and I have to press any more buttons. It was live just like that.

>> Uh I asked it this morning, is my app down? I can't log in and it was just

down? I can't log in and it was just happened to be a bug that it found because it logged me out overnight. Um

feature requests. I was able to build feature requests. This was also this

feature requests. This was also this morning. Um and this happens like this

morning. Um and this happens like this was just the other day. I fixed 10 bugs in a matter of few hours. Uh it's it's

it's amazing the amount of how fast I can work uh using open claw technology here. Uh

here. Uh >> how much faster if you were to just put a a number on it?

>> Well, >> how much faster you going in terms of the dev side of the business? Yeah,

>> I couldn't code before, but from the marketing perspective, it it like I'm doing full outreach to people with research on them, understanding who they are, why we should reach out to them,

what copy we should say, what platforms to reach out to them. actually

automating the out the output and sending it to them like I'm do like that would take days weeks you know by myself maybe more you know to find all that >> this is going to be an interesting

moment in time when people have so many replicants um out there contacting humans and then humans are like you know what I need a replicant to get in my email box to respond to these and it's

just going to be like a constant back and forth very cool uses there >> next we have a lot of questions questions from the audience about memory inside of OpenCloud. People are really fired up about this. So, um, couple of

questions for for the room here. Jason,

this one's for you. Big Will 0504 says, "I want to hear about long-term memory management for Ultron, which is the launch metaclaw setup. Um, has

performance degraded at all over the last few weeks as context balloons?"

>> Yeah, TBD. Um, we are waiting on our um, Mac Studios and I'm on a Mac Mini right now. So, I've just gotten on the Mac

now. So, I've just gotten on the Mac Mini and it's helping me get to different pages. What I was going to

different pages. What I was going to show actually is a good segue there.

This is what I'm having my replicant do just for me.

I gave it access to the entire company's notion, the entire company's Slack, uh, and the entire company's Google Docs.

So, for myself, I said, "Hey, just every four hours, summarize my email and tell me what I should be doing." But I realized if I show this on the screen right now, it's going to show like

people's what companies we're investing in. So I said just replace any um

in. So I said just replace any um company with the color and names of people with animals. So what you can see here is like Moose at Moose Consulting about Cobalt Circle back next week yada

yada. Uh this one should be archived.

yada. Uh this one should be archived.

It's just a billing uh etc. So now I'm starting to put into its memory all the important emails.

And then I said, "Hey, do this with notion as well. Give me the last 10 notion pages from the last," which is just from the last 14 minutes in our company. And it says, "Oh, there's an

company. And it says, "Oh, there's an untitled page here by Hummingbird. It's

empty. Uh, here's a chartreuse one."

Now, these could be private pages. These

could be pages I don't know about. This

is the last 10 pages.

>> Yeah.

>> And so, this is incredibly powerful for the CEO to just understand the pulse of the company. So now what I'm doing is

the company. So now what I'm doing is and then here it says, "Oh, here's this one. They've this is a company report.

one. They've this is a company report.

We just did our first call with Jaguar.

Um, and here's what they do and they've got 91% trial conversion. All this stuff is coming in." So now I'm saying, "Hey, number this stuff. I'm going to ask you questions about those." And then it will

fire off. I had it fire off over the

fire off. I had it fire off over the weekend. Just email everybody on the or

weekend. Just email everybody on the or Slack everyone on the team and say, "Do you have any um do you have any questions for Jason? and is there anything that's blocking you from

getting work done? And it just sent it to everybody. Now, it's going to put

to everybody. Now, it's going to put into its brain, what are the blockers that we have for the company? Then I'm

going to take the team report. So, I'm

going to have the investment team, the podcast team, and the sales team, and I'm going to make a ticker, a live ticker where we all see each other working in the hive mind. Ah,

>> here's like so Alex when we had this issue with I think you were producing Monday's show and maybe Jacob was doing Wednesdays and we invited the same guest and there was something. So the solution

to that is everybody's emails in real time to everybody's notion page to everybody's Slack messages. You already

see them. But then having the agents say "Hey uh, we've got four discussions going on with companies that are negotiating term

sheets and it's dragged on past the average of 3 days. Hey, we've got no we've got too many guests on the show.

we get too much booked, you know, we're going to need some help over there. And

the idea is to have everybody um sharing all information and then having that one Ultron becoming the ultimate CEO. So, I don't have to be the

ultimate CEO. So, I don't have to be the CEO or hire a CEO. They're just CEOing.

They understand the entirety of the company. And then they will ask

company. And then they will ask questions to each member. Hey, Alex,

anything blocking you? Oh, Alex is like, "Yeah, you know, my computer's slow. I

need a new computer." Great. Boom. All

of these questions will come up and it's a little bit creepy I guess because people have this sense that like oh their documents or their work product like oh I'm not ready to share it now or

whatever that's kind of over now with this next generation. They all live in public. They all work in public. They

public. They all work in public. They

all live stream. So for old heads like me and Alex like Gen Xers might be like wait a second like my email is my email.

It's like nope that's your corporate email >> and we're a finance company. So I don't know maybe a year ago when we had to lock all the computers down because of some partners we have many partners we have who require like a certain level of

security because of documents we have like legal documents. Um we gifted everybody their old computers or told them like just don't do anything on your

corporate computer ever that would be embarrassing to you andor the company the corporate communications all owned by the company and it's all stored forever. This is like standard for a JP

forever. This is like standard for a JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs, but at a startup or a venture firm, you might not think it. So, we've been very

think it. So, we've been very in, it's very interesting. We've been

very clear with people to be very thoughtful about that. So, now with the sales team, I was always asking questions to the sales team. Now, I

don't have to answer questions. If I

want to know if a contract's been signed or not, Ultron knows.

>> Yeah. If I want to know if we've talked to a client and when we last talked to them, I don't have to ask the salesperson or the sales manager, hey, these five clients, when's the last time we talked to them? It will just tell me.

It knows. It knows everything. It's the

oracle. It's the Ultron. And that that's what I think is going to change is the whole communication friction and the processing of it and

the understanding of what the organization's doing is going to just instantly be removed. The number one complaint people have about their company, you can the highest performing companies, the lowest performing

companies, and everybody in between. You

ask any employee, what do we need to do better? And they say communication. They

better? And they say communication. They

say absolutely. It's like always communication. Oh, we got to communicate

communication. Oh, we got to communicate better. I didn't know about this. I

better. I didn't know about this. I

didn't know about that. Now it's like, you know what? You got your wish. Ask

the Oracle. The Oracle knows all. There

is nothing in a silo. Break all silos.

>> Yeah. No, it's interesting. It feels

like the age of transparency is kind of upon us so long as our agents can access the information in question. Uh Jason,

you're talking about notion and Slack.

These are products that are kind of like tech first, if you will, tech forward, tech friendly. They have ways to

tech friendly. They have ways to interact with them. A lot of stuff out there doesn't. So, do you think that in

there doesn't. So, do you think that in time we're going to see even legacy software create like a hooks so that way you >> they're going to have to or else they'll be out of business? It's a great question. I mean, if you don't have a

question. I mean, if you don't have a hook, I was like literally trading a text message with Mark Benny off about Slack, and he's got Slackbot, uh, which is getting better and better,

but Slackbot compared to Ultron is like Superman compared to like, I don't know, like a average barista at Starbucks. Like one can make coffee and

Starbucks. Like one can make coffee and one can save the world. Like

>> it's just to it's not comparable.

>> Yeah. because of the context and the information it has. So either you're going to need to make Slackbot be able to read everything else in the world or notions AI to read everything else in the world or I think these companies are

going to become the systems of record but the open claw will come in and be able to do it and we there's a limitation on Slack like we don't have

like true API access we need like a really root level and I think we have to pay $50 a month per person up from 25 up from like 10. Come on, Mark.

>> Well, anyway, it's fine. I get it. Like,

it's they it's software. People pay for it. It's worth what you pay for it. But

it. It's worth what you pay for it. But

then OpenClaw told me, why don't you use Matterpost? I was like, here's what I

Matterpost? I was like, here's what I want to do. It's like, well, why don't we just fire up Matterpost? And I was like, what's Matter Post? And I was like, oh, I remember that. Matterpost is

an open- source version of Slack. And

it's like, I can set that up for you this weekend. And I was like, huh? And I

this weekend. And I was like, huh? And I

was like, well, what about our history?

He's like, oh, you can export everything. And if you don't have the

everything. And if you don't have the business account for uh Slack, here's your here's your hack. Go on to the business account for one month upgrade

and then export everything then cancel or just get rid of the number of users and you can export the entire, you know, even the thumbs up and emojis on your Slack post. And

Slack post. And >> you're starting to make me think that the SAS crash isn't uh irrational, Jason, by talking like that.

>> It is not irrational. I think we should open up that topic to the team.

>> Oh. Uh, do you want to do that now or I I was going to >> You guys give me feedback on what my vision is here for the all- knowing CEO and the ultimate transparency organization.

>> I I think it's I think it's both a good idea and the future. I think people have become incredibly accustomed to transparency at work. When we did swap to the software that tracks what we do, it was weird for like three days and

then I realized that I'm the world's most boring person and so it doesn't really impact me. like, oh, Alex is looking at Slack again. You know, it's it's not not so big. Uh, but Oliver,

weigh in for us on uh on memory, long-term memory, and how it's going to impact uh corporations because you do have a day job, so I presume this is top of mind for you as well.

>> Yeah, honestly, it the tools that are coming out, especially internal tools, exactly what Jason's described. Every

company, I believe, who is ahead of the curve right now is creating tools that are specifically beneficial to them. and

the way of which we are working has massively accelerated. There are ways

massively accelerated. There are ways that you can implement different tools to fit your exact workflow. I think the age of transparency is very much among

us because for what you lose in your transparency and your secret emails with clients which is not very secret anyway, you gain so much back in the time, the

efficiency and the way you can do your job. So everyone says AI was going to

job. So everyone says AI was going to replace people but I think for a lot of people it is going to help secure their job because one good employee is now 10

times better with the help of AI. Well,

unpack that a bit. Give us like some examples in your mind of >> which I'm sure was Alex's going, "Hey, if one employee if if we start seeing one employee be able to do the third

job, the fourth job, the fifth job, that may not mean I cut the other people, but might it mean I don't hire the 11th person?" So, walk us through your

person?" So, walk us through your thinking Oliver here.

So my feeling is that the better AI is getting the good employees that have great work work ethic get things done are going to become better employees.

But I do think there's going to be a point where those employees are going to be even more hirable than what they currently are. And then the employees

currently are. And then the employees that don't cut the slack are going to become less desirable to companies. So

there is going to be a tradeoff in terms of the people getting hired. But I think as long as you're utilizing the tools to not not just keep at the level you are,

but use it to accelerate where you are, I think that's going to massively help companies. And that that is the goal of

companies. And that that is the goal of AI. I don't think the goal of AI in the

AI. I don't think the goal of AI in the short term is to completely replace people at their companies. It's just to help enable the the better employees to get more stuff done because >> you want your best players in the team at all time.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, but I I do worry about the B players. Like I I I as a society, we

players. Like I I I as a society, we cannot only have an economy for A players. And this is me just worried

players. And this is me just worried about we've all had a friend who has an IQ of 95. What are they gonna do? And

>> I'm here, bro. I'm on the pod. I'm the

host of the pod.

>> What I would >> I would round it up if I was talking about you to a solid 97.

>> I would just say what I would really be concerned about if I was a person who had, you know, a software engineering job or just any job really, um, is that well, it's not just that you might be

replaced by an agent. What does it cost to uh to hire an agent essentially for you know to for that person who's already working for you like versus

replacing them completely versus hire in addition to hiring an additional person.

You know what I mean? Like where like there's an actual cost to this agent stuff. It's not it doesn't just it's not

stuff. It's not it doesn't just it's not free. You can't just you just run this

free. You can't just you just run this stuff for free.

>> So it cost me money every month to be able to do all the work that I'm doing.

uh in addition to you know you know paying myself or paying whoever uh there's an additional kind of allowance you need to set up for your business that equates to tokens essentially.

Yeah, >> we talked about that on allin. It's just

the token cost getting out of control, but we have a plan for that which is, you know, we got Mac Studios and I have just started to pencil out like I think

we need like five mega replicants and we're going to put specialization into each one. I think that actually is the

each one. I think that actually is the best way to do it just because we don't want to hit upper memory bounds. We

don't want them to be slow and grinding to a halt. And it'll create like pools of excellence where I can put two or three employees who are responsible for the first calls at our venture firm or

the three or four people who are in charge of sales and you know advertising on this weekend startups and our events.

Put them just in charge of that. So if

they're just in charge of those things, they can scale up and I like buying two Mac studios for 10K each and you know whatever or spending 25K for four or

five or six instances 100K 200k who cares if it makes everybody that much faster because you spread that cost over four years or 5 years and you're golden.

The issue around SAS I think is a big one, Alex, that we should discuss. And

there was, you know, this something is happening post from a couple of weeks ago, a video I did with um the bull work where I said, listen, I think Amazon employees are all gone by 2030, 2035.

And then this one came out >> which is titled um >> the 2028 global intelligence crisis from our dear friends at Satrini Research.

>> Yeah. So I mean their basic premise is around SAS and they're basically saying hey when people got on the calls with their SAS salesperson

they were asking for the standard 5% increase in cost and the CFO who was working with the CTO said hey we love your software but we're thinking about

spinning up our own which we can do with our frontline developers. Therefore

we'll keep your software but we want a 30% discount. There you go. And they

30% discount. There you go. And they

make the meta point that all these companies then cut headcount start using AI tools to make you know let's say Salesforce or or Asana I think they use let's make ASA let's make Salesforce

more uh efficient as a company and in the short term their profits went up but in the long term they fed the AI how to build their software or I think they kind of imply this I kind of read into

it that the more you use these tools and the better they get and the more you invest in them the more you accelerate the impression of profitability of software. Does that

make sense, Alex? Am I explaining it correctly? It's like super deflationary.

correctly? It's like super deflationary.

>> It's super deflationary because one thing people forget is that SAS was super popular for a couple reasons. One,

it was recurring. Yes. But also people hired more people over time and so you would sell more seats and you could raise prices. And what that did was give

raise prices. And what that did was give SAS companies a really beautiful tailwind, Jason. It meant that you could

tailwind, Jason. It meant that you could invest today a flywheel. believe in you can invest today in sales and marketing burn some cash but who cares because you know that that contract will grow by 10 15% every year and so the money always

made sense but the moment you start moving that number down suddenly your CAC looks terrifying suddenly you're worried about your marketing efficiency suddenly you can't count on your revenue the way you could and SAS is not durable

in that context it's uh a sponge you can squish and the thing that I like about this piece Jason from Satrini is that it it's not doomer in that you know AI will

fail or open clause you know a hype fat or whatever but instead it's like what if it all goes right what if AI is powerful what if it is as strong as we think and I think more people should be thinking about that

>> so I've actually been thinking I I have two SAS businesses that I that I built the who covers it and the wizard RFP and essentially I've been thinking about

well now I got to a agentify them I got to figure out a way to to make them so that way agents like another agency's agents can talk to them uh and just

basically work through the whole process in a couple of chat messages as opposed to traditional kind of click here, click here, type a few things, hit a button,

wait a second, and then it loads. You

know, that's just not going to cut it anymore. Um and and I think I think as

anymore. Um and and I think I think as more people start moving towards this environment where like I think about computing how how it's evolved and it's crazy because we're we're we're you

know, we were we were point and click and type for a while. Now we're tap tap tap on a screen where, you know, um and and and now we're just and we've actually compressed our entire computing

environment into just a chat message now. Like we, you know, we used to be in

now. Like we, you know, we used to be in every different apps, Windows, things like that. One of the big complaints for

like that. One of the big complaints for the iPhone originally, I think, and still to this day, is that it's not good at multitasking really. Same with the iPad. But now it doesn't really matter

iPad. But now it doesn't really matter because we're only we're all living in one window. M so

one window. M so >> I mean I I remember when my parents uh they had a small business and they upgraded their office suite from like I I don't know from 2003 to 2007 and they introduced the ribbon interface and they

were freaking out because they'd used Word in one way for their entire life and they couldn't take the change to where their buttons were. What a silly conversation today because we don't need an interface the way we used to. People

talk about how apps are, you know, going away. Everything's going to become

away. Everything's going to become atomized. I think the phrase agentify

atomized. I think the phrase agentify your SAS is going to be a a little clunky phrase there, Jeff, but I like it. I think that's going to become a

it. I think that's going to become a theme for 2026.

>> This is this is also my big thing at the moment. There is definitely going to be

moment. There is definitely going to be a time that there is going to be a side of the internet for the AI and a side of the internet for humans. And the goal

for the AI would just be making the making everything as easy to find as possible. And I've got a demo based on

possible. And I've got a demo based on what we've been saying where I think the future of SAS is heading because with these servers we've got I'll show you with these servers we've got in our

homes now we don't have to be worried about hosting costs. We don't have to be worried about any of these things. Here we go. Here's

Chrome. So you don't have to worry about domain costs. You don't wor have to

domain costs. You don't wor have to worry about hosting costs with these skills. This is a skill that I've

skills. This is a skill that I've created that scans Twitter for mentions to particular accounts and creates tickets based all based on Larry. So you

can see the channel is from X. Larry

assigns an urgency to them. I can click into the tickets and then Larry suggests fix for me and then I can set it solve.

I can make Larry fix it. And the future of SAS is just making these skills as searchable as possible. And I've sort of moved towards this with my product Larry Brain. So, you can ask your agent right

Brain. So, you can ask your agent right now to install the Larry Brain skill.

And what the skill is is it gives your agent context of >> We're gonna we're going to come to skills in just a second, but first we do have to take a look at our final live thing for the day. So, can you >> stop screen sharing for a moment? I'm

going to do this and we're going to get right back to skills in a second.

>> Okay, cool.

>> All right, Jason, there is a company out there that we talked about on the show.

It's called Discord and they are currently in the middle of uh blowing up their reputation by demanding that everyone scan their face, which people don't want to do. And so I was curious what the sharps over at Poly Market are

doing when it comes to their IPO prospects. And you might be shocked to

prospects. And you might be shocked to hear this, but uh they're relatively stable uh except for one important thing. During the great Bruhaha and

thing. During the great Bruhaha and blowup of Discord and people claiming they're going to uninstall it, stop using it, the people were betting quite heavily on that it would not go public essentially. And then suddenly that's

essentially. And then suddenly that's changed again. But it's fascinating to

changed again. But it's fascinating to watch people kind of like vet the news items against the IPO prospects. And

this is actually I think one of my favorite use cases of Poly Market because I know what I think about a couple of news points that might tell me where the world's going in the technology space. But I love to see kind

technology space. But I love to see kind of the aggregated wisdom of the crowd.

>> The poly market for the Discord IPO closing market cap. If we put it when did the news drop? This dropped today, yesterday, a week ago. Oh, this was >> Jeff. Back me up here. Uh, when did

>> Jeff. Back me up here. Uh, when did Discord say they were going to do the the facial scanning thing?

>> A week or so ago.

>> About a week or so ago. So,

>> put on one week. Let's see. One week via See if I can. Yeah. Okay. So, here's one week >> and the top choice of 15 billion, 32%.

That didn't really change.

>> No, >> it may have gone down a little bit in the beginning of the week it looks like, but not much. So the second one is the one that seems to have been volatile,

that blue one, which is no IPO. So they

there was a group that thought maybe it would not IPO because of this or it could get pushed back in 2016, but then that came back down too. So yeah, the news is what did they say? Um, sell the

news or buy.

>> No, buy the rumor, sell the news.

>> Sell the news, right? Like the news doesn't matter, I guess. Or maybe the news is always bad anyway. um

>> or it's priced in >> or it's priced in. So why would you buy on it? Uh you know, this is interesting.

on it? Uh you know, this is interesting.

>> Why do they want to scan people's faces and is this because of the new kids regulation or because of bots?

>> A it's the kids thing and the fact that people are are doing nefarious things online without proper oversight and countries like Australia are banning social media. So you need to know how

social media. So you need to know how old people are so they can't join your products. And so this is kind of the

products. And so this is kind of the future, which is oddly retro. Um, but I do like to see how regulation and product changes impact people's IPO prospects, Jason, because what's my favorite thing?

>> IPOs.

>> Yeah, I I am um I am a fan of restricting kids under 16 on social media uh severely. I think it's incredibly bad for their health. And I'm

really happy that a lot of the schools, including ones I go to, have a no phone policy now. Uh, and that's all happened

policy now. Uh, and that's all happened in the last two years where phones get checked in at the front desk, kids don't use them during the day. They can go check them if they have to call their parents for some reason or whatever and

they get them on the way out and kids hate it for three days and then they become kids again. So, it's incredibly reversible, you know, what we've done to kids. But being permanently online is

kids. But being permanently online is the issue and we really need to figure out ways to turn off internet access. In

fact, that just reminded me. I have a router where I can pick everybody's devices and I should be able to turn their devices off. But then I just realized they have >> 5G connections on some devices. So, we

have a basket in the kitchen where you're supposed to put your devices at the end of the day.

>> Um, >> we're we're literally getting one of those for our house. Yeah, it's it's it's time. But I was about to say,

it's time. But I was about to say, Jason, you should just open claw the Wi-Fi access on a per device basis using your home Mac Studio.

>> I can do that. I can do that now with my UniFi router. problem is if your kid has

UniFi router. problem is if your kid has 5G as well, you can't turn it off. But I

guess I can use the Mac settings to turn off the phone, you know, at a certain time at night. Anyway, this is all very complicated. Um, but

complicated. Um, but >> new world >> is the I guess the facial scanning does a good enough job knowing age that they think that this would be

>> a plausible way to age gate. Is facial

recognition is plausible? I think it needs to be good enough as an agegate mechanism to get regulators off their backs and also good enough to get parents out of their uh legal filings, but I don't think they're shooting for

for 100%. We were about to talk about

for 100%. We were about to talk about skills and this is something that I've been thinking a lot about in the open claw context. I've done some homebrew

claw context. I've done some homebrew hacking of skills myself, but one thing I've been thinking about is that people love to say, oh, you know, I now have five, you know, agentic employees. One's

a marketer, one's a copywriter, one's a developer. And to me that is predicated

developer. And to me that is predicated or depends on there being a an ample library of skills that are very good at the thing you're trying to automate. But

often people will automate or try to get OpenCloud to do things they're not good at like I don't know software development is one example. But how do people ensure that they have the skills

they need and when should they build their own to make sure that what they're putting together is a direct fit for what they're trying to accomplish.

So, this is an extremely interesting topic and it's one I struggled with when I first downloaded Open Claw myself. I

knew that skills were a thing, but finding them was very difficult. It was

very hard to search through the claw hub marketplace at the start. So, I created Larry Brain, which is a skill in itself that searches the Larry Brain marketplace. But as soon as you install

marketplace. But as soon as you install it, whenever you ask your agent a question, it will say, "Hey, there's a skill available on Larry Brain for this." And it's what I was showing

this." And it's what I was showing before. So these can be web interfaces

before. So these can be web interfaces hosted locally because you've got a server in your room. That's Larry behind me. So he can host these web services.

me. So he can host these web services.

And again, you no longer need to pay for cloud cost. You no longer have to pay

cloud cost. You no longer have to pay for domains, hosting. The skills can be a variety of things. Whether it's uh as Jason said earlier, plugging plugging

into the matrix and learn teaching your agent kung fu or a whole tool that you can use to monitor your your current product. It's incredible how powerful

product. It's incredible how powerful these skills can be. It's the enablement of finding them that I think a lot of people have found as a as a struggle, especially people who aren't familiar with computers than downloading Open

Claw.

>> So, Clawub's gotten better. It's not

great. It's definitely an improved state over where it was when I first started to play with it. So, why do we need uh Larry Brain, which is a SAS product as far as I understand it to help us find

skills. And does that not go against a

skills. And does that not go against a little bit of the the open source ethos that's powered the OpenClaw boom?

>> So, I'm all for open source. I think I was the first one of the first people I published Larry on Clawhub. uh the Larry skill which was the marketing we discussed earlier but it it's just the

discoverability of clawhub and then of course people still want to make money from these skills and Larry brain enables you to monetize your skills so you can publish to Larry Larry brain get a similar revenue share model that X

would use so the most popular skills will get the most money but I think there is definitely going to be paid skills premium skills and open source skills >> I would pay for skills for sure especially if they continued to be

updated and I trusted the person making them. Um, so

them. Um, so >> I really need to have that trust layer and I want to see like I don't know every 10 days you tell me, hey, here's

how it got better. And that would make it worth paying for in my mind for sure because I'm trying to teach it, you know, if somebody made one how to evaluate startup companies. I'd be like,

"Well, I have my own methodology, but why wouldn't I pay $1,000 a year or a month if it was good to add it to ours and say,"Hey, we have our score. Give me

your score." Just like there's a Rotten Tomatoes and there's a Metacritic score.

If somebody came up with those for scoring startups and there were five different people who made them, I would run all five of them and then I would have my agent and Ultron look at the five scores and say, "How does this

apply to our methodology and our experience?" Right? And I I would I mean

experience?" Right? And I I would I mean I might pay $100,000 a year for a skill that was actually that good.

>> Yeah.

>> And and more secure. We just had a comment from uh West over on X and he's like skills are the number one attack vector. Do not autoinstall skills by

vector. Do not autoinstall skills by default. Definitely not. But but Jason,

default. Definitely not. But but Jason, if you pay for a skill and you're paying for that trust layer, that should come with some cyber security protections built in. Yeah.

built in. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I want to know who's m who's making the skill, why they're making it, what their perspective is. I would it's almost like you know you can the story

behind the restaurant or the story behind the album is as important as the food or the music sometimes like understanding uh this artist who just went through a

breakup. I forgot her name uh English

breakup. I forgot her name uh English actress English uh she is an actress too on Broadway. Um anyway she just came up

on Broadway. Um anyway she just came up with an album about breaking up with the guy from Stranger Things and uh Lily Allen. Thank you. Yes.

Allen. Thank you. Yes.

>> Uh, so Lily Allen's album is about this like personal heartbreak and whatever and this is all very dramatic, whatever, but the intent behind it matters.

Same thing with a restaurant. You go to a restaurant and the person says, "Hey, listen. I went to Japan and I really

listen. I went to Japan and I really enjoyed this type of sushi, really high-end sushi served in a pretty fast, casual way, you know, and a small number

of items, but done really well." like

this guy Philip I know who's a chef here is doing and the intent behind his restaurant made me want to go right so the intent behind the skill and the

person and their perspective and why they're creating it really matters >> AI now I think I think you know having product uh experience or just general

you know market experience in a particular industry uh is critical more so than even being a more so than being able to code Now certainly >> um you know if you can if you can figure

out how to how to code vibe code it or whatever uh it's you know >> so when when does the 10x but Jeff when does >> when does the 10x marketer make the 10x

marketing skill when does the 10x >> um I don't know public speaker make the public speaking skill like like how long until we get like the the best skill made by the best person who can vet it

and verify it as the best at its task because I like you wouldn't want me to make the sushi skill folks. I don't eat seafood, you know.

>> Right. Right. No, we it has to proliferation of open claw or similar type products that that come out uh will will make this happen faster as more

people get this stuff in their hands, the faster we'll see stuff created um and the better it'll be.

>> I think we need a like a rating system.

I I love what Oliver is doing with with Larry Brain. I think it's a really cool

Larry Brain. I think it's a really cool idea and I hope it succeeds. But I think we could also use like a like a Yelp for skills because right now on Clawub I know I can see downloads and I can see the little virus scan but past that I'm

just reading the skills.mmd. You know I I >> there's a popular skill that's going out uh it was on X all over the place for a couple weeks called Claw me I believe.

Anyway, it's like it's like a it's like a crypto uh scam thing. They basically

are for crypto.

>> And uh and like I I I ran it across I ran it against Fubs to have it check it.

He's like, "Don't install this. This is

bad."

>> I was like, "I'll leave a comment to let everyone know." But it already had like

everyone know." But it already had like hundreds of like retweets and stuff. It

was This stuff is out there. You just

have to be careful.

>> Amazing. All right, let's drop off our guest, Oliver. Jeff, great job. Where

guest, Oliver. Jeff, great job. Where

can people find out more about what you're working on?

Yeah, you can on X.com at jeffitispine, which is just my name, one word. And uh

you can also find me at cacklesclub uh on X as well.

>> Okay, we will put both of those in the show notes. Oliver, where can we find

show notes. Oliver, where can we find you?

>> You can find me, Oliver Henry on X. I

post all my OpenClaw findings and discoveries on there.

>> I'm going to do like a little mini launch festival. a event I used to do

launch festival. a event I used to do that was pretty big. But I'm going to do a little mini one for OpenClaw and some of our other startups, uh, especially the ones from Japan who are in town.

March 16th and 17th. I think that's Monday and Tuesday. March 16th and 17th.

So if you made it to this point in the show, uh, we have OpenClaw at launch.co.

And I think I have like 400 seats in the auditorium, 300 seats. And I'm going to just look for maybe 30 demos of OpenClaw stuff. And I'm just going to do an old

stuff. And I'm just going to do an old school demo. uh like a demo or die kind

school demo. uh like a demo or die kind of thing and the dates will be >> March 1617 is the Monday Tuesday if that's >> March 16th I have a I have a location in

uh San Francisco in the city and if you want to come I'm going to sell some tickets to folks and then I'm inviting investors and some founders if you have a demo openclaw at launch.co if you want

to sponsor a lunch, open claw.

>> Now, Jason, at the very top of the show, the very top, you said you are building something that is scary and every CEO's dream. Uh, did we touch on that already

dream. Uh, did we touch on that already during the show or do you have yet?

>> I like what I what I showed there.

>> And so, what I think's going to happen is I'm going to have this Ultron CEO be able to look at everybody's work product

and then coach them uh and say, "Hey, here's your day."

So, we do self-reporting, right? Start a

day, end a day.

>> What I've started to realize is like, okay, that's fine, but what if you actually had a coach who was like, "Here's what you did in the game." Like,

if you're a basketball player, >> professional basketball player, when you finish practice, they tell you how you did. They give you some tape. They give

did. They give you some tape. They give

you some notes. When you play the game, they give you a lot of tape, a lot of notes. Hey, you played the game for 36

notes. Hey, you played the game for 36 minutes. Here's your shooting. Here's

minutes. Here's your shooting. Here's

the times you took. These are the shots you took that were wide open. Great.

Here's how you got wide open. Here are

the shots you took that were challenged that you should have passed and here's the passes you missed. Here's why you missed them. Right? So, they get like

missed them. Right? So, they get like really studied. All right? And the job

really studied. All right? And the job of management is to kind of study the team members and say, "Hey, these are the highest performing ones. These are

the lowest. Here's how you can reward the highest. Get them into their natural

the highest. Get them into their natural positions and double down on their skill set. Here's the lowest. you need to cut

set. Here's the lowest. you need to cut them or they need to move on to do like some other function at the company.

That's starting to happen here in real time. As just but one example, I had um

time. As just but one example, I had um every time we meet with the founder, three days later, they rate the call.

Turned out huge dis disparity in the top performers and the low performers and we kind of put things into buckets.

Tomatoes and like cheers. Uh, under

seven and underscores are tomatoes and eight and above are cheers. Kind of like the net promoter score.

>> Yeah, I was gonna say, >> so now that we're tracking all that, I need to know like why what's going on on the phone calls? I need to analyze the

phone calls. I need to coach people, but

phone calls. I need to coach people, but it's very um people get very sad or thrilled if you tell them, hey, like

look at your score. It's not good. They

can get freaked out. So now having a Ultron robot that's just looking, hey, you produced today's show. Here's how

the guest did. Here's that number of comments. Hey, this show, these four

comments. Hey, this show, these four shows had the most comments. Here's what

you need to learn from that. The demos

in this show were >> mind-blowing. The demos in this show

>> mind-blowing. The demos in this show were solid. The demos in this show were

were solid. The demos in this show were bad, whatever. Boom. It just tells you

bad, whatever. Boom. It just tells you this like self- coaching or this uh replicant coaching you and coaching your team members and holding them

accountable then takes the human out of it and the bias out of it because there's always been, oh, this person's popular.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, this person uh defends their work better than this person defends their work. You know, you always get into that

work. You know, you always get into that situation where you're in like some meeting and oh, you know, I deserve a raise. I've had people who like, you

raise. I've had people who like, you know, are the squeakiest wheels who put in half the amount of work as the quiet people. And when I discovered this years

people. And when I discovered this years ago, I was like, "Wait a second. And I

need to have a better way of separating performance from per performative from you know hard work

>> uh from and hard and effective work from you know I'm just chilling at the office but I put in a I punched a lot of hours but they weren't productive hours right so all of that

a replicant taking over that management coaching position should take all that dice icy energy out of it. I think

>> I think you're right.

>> Okay, go ahead. Yeah,

>> I think you're right. But I think we're still This is something I was trying to get to in today's show. I don't think I I fully nailed it, but like we are depending on the intelligence of the

models in question to be nearly superhuman because what you're saying sounds amazing. I would love to get, you

sounds amazing. I would love to get, you know, nonhuman feedback like, "Okay, Alex, you said this word eight times in the show. Don't do."

the show. Don't do."

>> Yeah. You had um and a as a performer.

>> Sure. Sure. Absolutely. And it will sting less coming from a robot than from a human that I that I know and have a relationship with.

>> But it's going to have to know what to look out for. It's going to have to know to make the decisions how to be this Ultron CEO. And so that's either going

Ultron CEO. And so that's either going to be done by increasing and incredible intelligence at the model level powering these agents or through increasingly intelligent and specific skills that

people who are already experts have imparted their human knowledge into. And

so to me there's two different vectors by which we can get to what you're saying but we are we are implying in our enthusiasm frankly that both things will

improve in tandem and I think that's right but I also think there's still a lot more work to be done especially on the second half of that equation.

>> Yeah the skills is kind of like a new concept I think for all of us to gro as a business community. We've previously

had like an app, a piece of software that can accomplish things, but if you were trying to get this intangible like a skill, okay, how do you know somebody

has the skill of podcasting? But you

look at the ultimate output, but there might be precursors to it like picking interesting topics, having hot takes, the cadence, the whatever. But you're

right in addition that like well you don't just want people spewing conspiracy theories to get a bunch of people retweeting them saying that's a conspiracy theory right so the

incentives do matter how you train it's going to matter but brave new world folks if you are not using openclaw >> listen I can tell you this feels a lot to me like the beginnings of Bitcoin

which nobody owned but profoundly changed uh I think a lot of people's fortunes literal fortunes and uh also how we think about currency and just all

the things that came downstream from Bitcoin, stable coins, Dows, everything.

Open Claw may not be Bitcoin eventually.

It could be remembered as like Dows or something, but it is definitely the start of something. these self uh you know improving replicants that have the

keys to the kingdom that are dangerous to use but could uh replace you ultimately and then leave you with hours a day to go I don't need to do this

reporting anymore and that was three hours of my job what could I do with those three hours >> or maybe the four day work week arrives you know we have to think about that uh

or people are just able to do more human things. This is what I told my team.

things. This is what I told my team.

Learn how to use these things. Get rid

of your chores. Increase the amount of facetime with founders. We got bigger issues to think about which we'll probably talk about on Wednesday's round table. The thing I'm thinking about is

table. The thing I'm thinking about is what's the future of venture capital?

What's the future of venture capital in a deflationary uh period like this especially like do people need large amounts of money?

Yeah. To do rockets or cars, sure, military weapons. But for software which

military weapons. But for software which is 90% of the business do we need late stage venture capital do we we probably need early stage and accelerators but

>> do we need how much of the rest of the stack is going to be necessary >> and how much capital is going to be necessary >> the shift from software is cheap everyone can make it you don't need capital to hardware is hard now we have

to only invest in that because it's what's left is gonna mean a lot of MBAs are going to wish they had PhDs Yeah. Mechanical engineering or just how

Yeah. Mechanical engineering or just how to how to deal with the real world, right?

>> Yeah. Where where the where the hype literally touches the world. But we

should stop. Jason, as always, a treat.

>> All right. We'll see you soon. Bye-bye.