Kwa Geok Choo: Shelter in the storm of separation | CNA Special

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[music] Those familiar with the Singapore story know a great deal about its key architect, Mr. Lee Kuan Yu. But few know

how significant his wife, Madame Quagychu, was in the story. And this was for good reason. She always shunned the

limelight, never gave an interview and gave no public statements, nor took credit for anything she had a hand in.

But for the first time, we will hear from Madame Qua. I knew that things were coming to a boil, meaning that well, the separation was going to take place, how

it was taking place, who was doing it. I

did not know the details, but we were coming to a crisis. Through her account of a critical time in Singapore's history, we get a glimpse into the role

she played. It reveals a story of two

she played. It reveals a story of two unions. One which was deep and enduring

unions. One which was deep and enduring and the other doomed from the start.

Madame Ko's interview recorded between 1981 and 1982 is part of a newly released government [music] file surrounding the events leading to separation.

This never heard before audio is featured at a capstone event called the Albatross File, Singapore's Independence Declassified. [music] The 20inut

Declassified. [music] The 20inut interview reveals how much of a devoted partner she was to Mr. Lee, especially in his moments of deep anguish during

separation.

>> He was very, very upset. That is the nearest I have seen him to being near a nervous breakdown. You're listening to a

nervous breakdown. You're listening to a CNA podcast special. Madame Kagyokchu,

shelter in the storm of separation.

As with many love stories across cultures and countries, the one that Mr. Lee and Madame Qua shared began in a classroom. At Raffles College, the young

classroom. At Raffles College, the young man noticed the only girl in the prestigious Queen Scholarship class. In

his memoir, The Singapore Story, Mr. Lee talks about the first time he notices Madame Qua.

[music] He writes, "At the end of each of the three terms in the academic year, there were examinations, and for the first of these, I [music] was the best

student in mathematics, scoring over 90 marks. But to my horror, I discovered I

marks. But to my horror, I discovered I was not the best in either English or economics. I was second in place, way

economics. I was second in place, way behind a certain Miss Kagyokchu.

She was my equal. Quick, perceptive,

disciplined. We were both competitive, but we respected each other deeply.

>> The thing about Mr. Leewan, you know, public persona. He had a very solid

public persona. He had a very solid family and I think that must have given him tremendous peace of mind to focus on his political career which is not easy,

right? Building a new country.

right? Building a new country.

>> This is Professor Tantayong, a historian and president of the Singapore University of Social Sciences.

>> So, I think the fact that he had Mrs. Lee by his side all these years as a very close confidant. She was somebody whom he could I guess bounce ideas with.

She helped edit his speeches and even the separation the instrument of separation. She gave some ideas on how

separation. She gave some ideas on how to improve it. So I think she was able to play that role as an intellectual equal on top of being a very supportive wife and I think their personalities

complimented. He was intense and fiery.

complimented. He was intense and fiery.

Right. Well, she was really calm and steady. You know, that balance was very

steady. You know, that balance was very important and I think to have it for the entire duration of his political career was quite something.

Professor Tan says that in many ways the ark of their marriage coincides with the birth of a nation.

And when the war ended, both won scholarships to study law in England.

Far from home, their steady friendship blossomed [music] into love. But fearing

that the colonial government would revoke their scholarships, the couple decided to marry in secret with close friends as witnesses. Here's what Mr.

Lee says in his memoir. It was a small ceremony, no fuss, no guests, but it meant everything to us.

Back in Singapore, the couple co-founded the law firm Lee and Lee with Mr. Lee's brother Dennis.

As Madame Qua went to work building her reputation as a formidable lawyer, her husband soon became involved in politics. In his early years of

politics. In his early years of representing trade unions, Mr. Lee became aware of the inequities of the

colonial system. By 1954, Mr. co-founded

colonial system. By 1954, Mr. co-founded the people's action party with Toqin Chai, Goking Sui and S. Rajaratnam.

Their aim was to end colonial rule and attain self-governance.

For the young couple with little children in tow, this signaled the start of a life-changing moment [music] for their family and the nation.

Here is Professor Tan. is actually not a very settled world that he came back to.

He had to sort of start in a way getting involved and the future was very uncertain. You had to take on the

uncertain. You had to take on the British then you have to decide who your comrades were, what political system you're going to build, at what stage will you get a real decolonization and then of course relations with Malaya and

elsewhere. So I think these were all

elsewhere. So I think these were all very interesting times for Mr. Lee and Mrs. Lee.

>> The 1959 election was a turning point.

The PAP won 43 out of 51 seats. Lie Kuan

Yu became the first prime minister of Singapore at age 35.

A country which on its own had little reason to survive.

>> If you looked at Singapore in 1950, you actually saw very little hope of Singapore being able to survive on its own. The logic then was that it had to

own. The logic then was that it had to be part of something larger. So that was the thinking and for good reasons economic [music] politics, social. So Lipanu believed

politics, social. So Lipanu believed firmly in that and he fought very hard in 1959 when he campaigned for the elections. He said that merger with

elections. He said that merger with Malaya was a key platform and he wrote papers on it explaining why it was logical.

At home, Madame Ka had private doubts about whether this union with Malaya would last. In Mr. 's eulogy at her

would last. In Mr. 's eulogy at her funeral in 2010. He talks about this >> when we were about to join Malaysia. He

told me that we would not succeed because the omna leaders had such different lifestyles and because their politics were commonly based on race and

religion.

I replied that we had no choice and that we had to make it work.

But she was right. They were asked to leave Malaysia before 2 years.

[music] >> Those two years would turn out to be the biggest test of both their lives. Here's

Professor Tan.

>> Fundamentally, it was a multicultural Malaysia or a Malay dominated Malaysia.

Now, I'm not very clear. This is the the setting and a Malay dominant Malaya or Malaysia was non-negotiable. And then of course when the heat started to get

turned up uh people got angry and emotional and basically irrational and this then led to riots in 1964 and when the riots happened I think that was

where it showed that the marriage was already on the rocks. They couldn't

agree on very fundamental things.

>> During this time Madame Qua continued to work in the law firm and raise their three young children. Her role was to keep an even keel even as she knew

things were coming to a boil. One

particular holiday at Cameron Highlands was eventful. The Lee stayed at Clooney

was eventful. The Lee stayed at Clooney Lodge, a resort set aside for government officers.

Madame Kan knew that separation was imminent because she had seen a draft of the agreement before this trip. While

they were there, Mr. Lee had to leave for the capital, Koala Lumpo, quietly in the night. Shopkeepers who noticed the

the night. Shopkeepers who noticed the family's presence in their town would ask where Mr. Lee was.

Here's Madame Qua. When we went up to Cameron Highlands, I knew things were coming to the boil. My husband was there playing golf, walking around with my husband. We went down to the village

husband. We went down to the village sometimes together. Then he'd go off and

sometimes together. Then he'd go off and play golf. My children and I, we amused

play golf. My children and I, we amused ourselves. But one day in the evening,

ourselves. But one day in the evening, he had a phone call. He said, "Yes, I'm going down to KL." He left in the evening. They didn't leave in the

evening. They didn't leave in the daytime. And he left and the children

daytime. And he left and the children asked, "What's happened?" I said, "No, papa's got some work." And I stayed on in Cameron Highlands with the children.

I knew that things were coming to a boil. Meaning that well, the separation

boil. Meaning that well, the separation was going to take place, how it was taking place, who was doing it. I did

not know the details, but we were coming to a crisis. I was there alone with the children. I think we went down to the

children. I think we went down to the town as usual. We had a car. We must

have gone down to the village. The

people in the shops are accustomed to seeing my children and I going to the shops. We buy a few things. They asked

shops. We buy a few things. They asked

me where's Mr. Lee. Oh, I said, "Mr. Lee is playing golf still." And if the children had heard me, they would have known I was telling a lie. But I don't

think they questioned me.

Acutely aware that her actions could have diplomatic repercussions, Madame Qua maintained a figure of composure.

Here is her reaction when asked about what she knew.

>> No, I didn't need to be told these things. He just said, "I'm going off

things. He just said, "I'm going off this that." And I knew that when he goes

this that." And I knew that when he goes off like this, you don't tell the whole world that he's gone down to Kala Lumpo to negotiate these delicate things. So,

there are certain things he may have told me. I don't think it was necessary.

told me. I don't think it was necessary.

I knew this is a clock and dagger thing.

You don't tell people. I If my son had blurted out, "Papa's not here," that would have been trouble. But my son would have known better, my big boy. The

younger ones wouldn't have known. There

are certain things you don't need to discuss. I mean, we knew this is top

discuss. I mean, we knew this is top secret. He's gone down. Things are

secret. He's gone down. Things are

coming to the boil. It's going to be pulled off. And so, I just stayed back

pulled off. And so, I just stayed back waiting to for the phone to say, "Come down."

down." Madame Ka and the children made their way to Sri Tamasic in Koala Lumpo where they stayed when Mr. Lee was in Malaysia. She talks about the frenetic

Malaysia. She talks about the frenetic pace at the rambling house.

>> When we are in tamasic kale we have the run of the house or at the most there would be one other person his secretary would be there or the so but my husband and I my children would occupy that

house. This time we found that the house

house. This time we found that the house was full of people so that my husband, myself and three children were occupying one room where we usually spread out in

three or four bedrooms. So I got the bed sheets I remembered and extra blankets and put them on the bed floor made a bed on the floor if you understand what I

mean. And they slept on the floor with

mean. And they slept on the floor with the bed made English style with the bed sheet tucked under something and the blankets over them because it's air conditioned. So there were the two of us

conditioned. So there were the two of us and three children and I must have had to hush the children and tell them not to get in the way.

>> But even before the critical days leading up to August 9th, Madame Qua had already lent her most significant expertise.

Nailing down the legal terms of separation is no easy task. It had to cover critical [music] constitutional, finance, and defense issues. Mr. EW

Barker, then Minister for Law, was tasked to work on the separation document. [music] When Mr. Lee is given

document. [music] When Mr. Lee is given an early draft, the Prime Minister thinks [music] it needs more work.

>> I showed my wife a documents because my wife is a good draftsman.

A draftsman is someone who specializes in drawing up legally binding contracts.

Common examples would be wills, business contracts, or housing loan agreements.

The skill most needed for this sort of work is using precise language with no room for vagueness. Here's Madame Ka explaining her role. Before we left

Singapore, my husband had shown me a draft that was shown to me in Oxy Road and not in Cameron Highlands. He'd shown

me a draft and asked me to run through it and see is it all right. Is there

anything there that you think should be tightened up or is not clear. What I

feel is my duty in such a thing is to see whether there's any ambiguities which can later lead to disagreement and conflict which can be interpreted one

way or another way. That as a draftsman is how I look at the thing. Is there any sentence where the meaning is not clear?

Has it been spelt out clearly in words which nobody can argue about? I ran my eye through it and I remembered pointing out here this part here is open to

argument and this part perhaps you could say this other way otherwise it might be interpreted another way. We did not have much time. I don't think we spent more

much time. I don't think we spent more than 10 minutes on it. and he looked at it and he listened to me and he said yes and no and off he went.

>> Mr. Lee wanted important additions and [music] edits made specifically to water agreements. When separation was

agreements. When separation was imminent, Eddie Bark as minister for law drew up the draft legislation for for the separation. But he did not include

the separation. But he did not include an undertaking by the federal government to guarantee the observance of the two water agreements between the POB and the

Jaw state government. I asked you to include this. She drafted the

include this. She drafted the undertaking as part of the constitutional amendment of the Federation of Malaya act. the

constitution itself. She was precise and meticulous in her choice of words.

>> That was Mr. Lee in his eulogy to his wife.

Decades later, this water agreement clause still stands between the two nations.

>> [music] >> The saying goes, "It is always darkest before dawn." But for Mr. Lee, the

before dawn." But for Mr. Lee, the morning of the 9th of August, 1965 was the [music] bleakest moment in his political life. Mr. Lee goes into what

political life. Mr. Lee goes into what he calls the most difficult press conference of his life.

>> [music] >> You see, the whole of my adult life, I had believed in merger and the unity of these two territories.

[music] >> Mr. Lee returns from that spent and utterly worried about the weight of [music] what has just happened. He feels

he has failed, let people down. He

worries how Singapore will survive. Back

home, Madame [music] Qua's steadiness doesn't falter. Here she is talking

doesn't falter. Here she is talking about that day.

>> I think where he had the nearest to a nervous breakdown was after it was over, after the press conference when we came

back and slept in this room. He was

very, very upset.

Mr. Deanaya, a founding member of the PAP, was one of the people Mr. Lee felt especially worried for a bit of context first. Mr. Nia played a bridging role

first. Mr. Nia played a bridging role between the Malaysians and Singapore during the union. After the merger in 1963, he was sent to KL to set up the

Malaysian People's Action Party and even won a seat in a fiercely contested election in the Bangsar district. Given

his role, Mr. Lee was terribly worried for Mr. Na's safety and felt he would be left to fend for himself after the separation.

Mr. Ny talks about this time.

Cornu was [music] very upset and I knew one of the reasons he was upset was because he thought [music] that he had been responsible for putting

me there and he feared that my life was in danger and I would end up with a cris behind my back. He was distraught,

did not sleep for quite a few days, nights. [snorts]

nights. [snorts] So much so that his doctors and his wife were very deeply concerned.

>> When Mr. Ny comes to visit at their home in Oxley Road, Madame Qua urges him to talk to her husband.

>> He was very, very upset. Devon is left up there in Koala Lumpo. His cause for concern was that he had abandoned our

supporters in Malaya and that Devon was left our MP in Bangsa. At that time the metaphor he used was the spaceman had just gone up. They' sent something into

space and a man had gone out and walked in space and he said Devon is like that spaceman walking out in space and he was really upset at the idea of Devon being

alone in Malaya to carry on and that we had abandoned all these people and he had to make up for lost sleeping here in that room and Devon came to see him. I

remembered very clearly Devon came down from KL and my husband was sleeping and I took Devon to the little study at the back and say look you've got to convince Guanu that you are staying on in Koala

Lumpo of your own vition you are a grownup adult person if you did not want to be left alone in Koala Lumpo you can come back to Singapore and that Kwanu is

not responsible for your staying behind in Koala Lumpo that was what upset him he was very distressed distressed for the people And for Devon and I told Devon, look, you are not a puppet. You

are an independent person with your own mind. You've got to convince Guanu not

mind. You've got to convince Guanu not to be so upset about it because you're making up your mind yourself, notw making up your mind for you and leaving you behind.

>> Professor Tan explains why Mr. Lee was particularly emotional about the separation.

>> You can see that he has always believed in this project. That was his goal. That

was his objective. That was his political project. And then when he

political project. And then when he actually achieved it in 63, he saw it unravel so quickly that by 65 that project had failed. So the first point

is that he was devastated almost you know he was so upset by the collapse of this political idea or ideal that he had fought so hard to achieve. That's one.

Two, it was not just his project. It was

a project that he had many people working together. He mentioned

working together. He mentioned specifically Devona who was still in Malaysia and Singapore is exiting. I

think he used a very interesting phrase about how uh someone's walking in the moon now, right? He's in space and walking out there. So I think he felt a sense of personal responsibility.

>> In his memoir from third world to first he wrote about the night of August 9th, 1965 referring to Madame Ka as Chu, [music] a

name he calls her. He says, "That night when I was alone with Chu, I broke down.

[music] The enormity of the separation overwhelmed me. What was to happen to

overwhelmed me. What was to happen to Singapore? How were we to survive?" But

Singapore? How were we to survive?" But

Madame Qua held firm, telling her husband that he would find a way to build again. And build he did.

build again. And build he did.

I am nobody's to do. [music]

I am not here to play somebody else's game.

I have a few million people's lives to account for.

Singapore will survive.

[music] Mr. and Mrs. Lee were married for 63 years.

They would weather many more crises together. But in every single one of

together. But in every single one of them, Madame Quagyokchu was the shelter in Mr. Lee Kuanu's storms.

In his final goodbye, [music] Mr. Lee reflected on their life together.

>> I have precious [clears throat] memories of our 63 years together. Without her, I would have been a different man and a completely different life. She devoted

herself to me and our children. She was

always there when I needed her. She has

lived a life full of warmth and meaning.

We never argued over the upbringing of our children or over financial matters.

Our earnings and our assets were jointly held. We were each other's confidant.

held. We were each other's confidant.

>> Madame Qua died at age 89 in 2010. She

was accorded a state funeral for her contributions to the nation.

This episode was narrated by me as Minoners. It was written and produced by

Minoners. It was written and produced by Christina Robert. Editing was done by

Christina Robert. Editing was done by Tiffany Ang. Sound design and editing by

Tiffany Ang. Sound design and editing by Ken [music] Delbridge.