Li Lu Master Class on Value Investing

and and also I really felt terrific uh coming back to this class I mean this class in many ways is really what to make my career uh about 15 years ago at

the time actually I wasn't even a student at a business school I was accidentally brought into a lecture I think of basically part of this class

and the speaker has a funny name that really reminds me of some kind of buffet lunches and anyway in the middle of the speech listening to Warren the light

bulb kind of just went off and I figured that I can do something in this business and of course at the time I was a pretty desperate you know recently escaped from China

I didn't know anybody have a very little uh you know connection whatsoever and didn't have any money in fact I was deep in debt and it was horribly worried

about how do I ever make a living in this country and I really didn't grow up with the capitalist culture either so and so in the middle of his speech I thought well

what he said about investing really just so different from my perception of a stock market and uh and the more I think I thought about it

the more I thought well gee this may be something that I can do now I suppose that most of you who chose this class I understand is very difficult to get into this class at least it was when I was a

student um it's maybe a kind of a self-selected group of people who are already somehow biased or towards the value investing

how many of you really consider yourself a value investor or or more predisposing to Value investing how many of you sort of know for sure

you're going to be kind of asset management business so roughly the same number of people who really want to be an asset management business or sort of a already consider

yourself as a value investor so who can really tell me what are the one or two things that really sort of defines a value investor from everybody else anybody

yes Chase uh one of the things that I that I think about is the usually they're performed depends on the underlying performance of the business

right other than multiple expansions so for that reason they have to have a longer term uh time Horizon so in other words you'll think that uh

you sort of feel yourself as more of an owner of a business in a sense and therefore your fortune rise up and down with the nature of the business and how

things to add please Yeah you sort of you you demand a margin of a safety in the sense anybody else right right well that's pretty summarized that

uh they're basically three attitude streaked out of the teachings of a Ben Graham that a you think yourself as

basically not a uh a paper shuffler in a sense you you really think yourself as as owner of the business and be you sort of

you know you you demand a huge margin of safety When approaching investment and see that somehow you sort of think everybody else

is different so this this is where the Mr Market analogy come in uh those are three things actually kind of a they all you know come into really coming from

one perception which is you know is you you think yourself as an owner of business rather than kind of a a kind of owner of a piece of a paper

and and and you own a small piece and therefore you really don't control the business and therefore sort of is almost self-defense to demand a large margin of safety because whatever value you

perceive it may not be there because you can't control it uh and then because you thought you're really owning a business and therefore you really don't care you know if your owner business you don't

trade that all the time and so therefore you think that you are somewhat different from just about everybody else in the market participant but then the question is if you really feel your owner of business why do you want to be

the stock market the stock market is not created for this type of a people is that right the stock market is a created is a frictionalized so that everybody can go

in and go out is that right anybody have a view on that one who can tell me that asset you think is really um

kind of managed by value investors anybody have any guess with that kind of a perception we just talk about there's no real study but there are a

number of attempts of a study including one actually by a professor next door at the law school a low uh alone steam yeah and which really

kind of put at a roughly under five percent of all assets that actually is consistent from what we just talk about it now you are really not to the majority you're actually a very very minority and

the stock market is really not created for you it's created for the 95 of all the other people and that's really where your opportunity

is and that's where your challenge is so to understand that before you go into management business is a really short and really important and that's really when I that's what I

first learned when I when I came here and listened to above it uh that's one thing that's sticking my mind and that really sort of helped me to

position where I am because I really know by then what kind of a person I am I think most of your challenge especially those of you who really want to end up in the managed management business

and I'm actually tonight primarily addressed to that group of people sorry for those people that that are not um you were your biggest challenge is

really to understand whether you're that five percent of the per people or you're the 95 of the majority and you might think that because of the training because you do this you sort of

you know intellectually or theoretically biased to also their small minority group of people you'll be amazed you know how much you would have changed you know my career is

sort of take a little yeah twist as well I always kind of run my own fun you know part of the time when we was sort of mentioned was uh Julian was really a

sort of uh when he invited me to really share off it with him because he sort of invite a whole bunch of a fund managers that he invested in and also share a

store share ideas and that's when I sort of get a much better understanding of how the 95 of other people really operated and you know it is tempting because you

know why 95 of the people don't do you know what you guys are here try to do despect the spectacular success of Warren

Buffett Charlie Munger why is it anybody have a reason why is that why there's only yes emotionally is very difficult but if you

think that you know it's very convincing that value investor is over a long period of time really have much much better uh kind of a returns you know you think that's where the money is you know even

if it's emotionally difficult you think they wouldn't change it any other reason right right to that point right right we actually

are very close to the point I think that the real answer is that's really where the money is why that's where the money is because the market is really created for those

group those kind of people who are really thinking of trading in and out all the time and therefore that they will pay attention to the short term

and therefore that if you put up with that requirement that's really where the asset is going to find you and so as a result that's a statistic

dispect the huge difference discrepancy of a performance of that five percent have a spectacular return consistently over a long period of time 95 of the

money or something close to that probably would always reside to somewhere else and if if that's where the money is you know most of people naturally would

end up there so my first kind of a point I want to leave with you is really to understand who you are because you won't be tested

through all this period of time do your future career development that you're going to really have to really face to to to ask yourself whether your value invest or you're not

value invested now if for whatever reason that your personality is a build to be a value investor probably means that you somehow

you know genetically mutated throughout the the process of evolution that a you're very comfortable being in a minority

which is not really very uh natural to human beings you know throughout our human evolution process that most of us surviving because we stick with the group

in phase of a large memos as the only way we can we can survive and so it is really over you know tens of thousands

of years of evolution it really is you know deeply ingraining into your genes uh but occasionally you will find a small percentage of people really survive despite the fact that they

really have a different kind of a gene is almost through a mutation process that that group of people survived so that's the first thing you have to really be very very comfortable

uh you know being very much by yourself and therefore you would naturally adopt the additivity or right not because other people agree with you but because

your reason your evidence are right it is common sense but of course as people said common sense is at least a common commodity most people don't think that way

and secondly that you would probably spend most of your time truly be an academic researcher instead of so-called a professional investor

most of the time you're going to spend as a professional investor as a value investor not a professional investor is really to be an academic to be a researcher to be a journalist actually

to basically be have insatiable curiosity to really and try to figure out how just about everything works

because investing really the more you know the better off you are as an investor and so you you just have to be naturally

interested and occurs just about everything any kind of a business is politics science technology uh

Humanity history poetry literature everything really affected your business basically so you almost have to wait you know

you don't have to put it that way it will help you it will help you and then occasionally you want to find and feel inside that all of those studies

that really give you a tremendous opportunities that other people just for whatever reason couldn't deal with either psychologically somebody said or because of the limitation of the

thinking or because of the institutional imperative of the institution they belong to all sorts of different reasons and then you go through

find out is the business the opportunity you're given is that cheap is the business a good business is the management of somebody that I can trust

either because they're good or because the external checks are sufficient and what else is missing and why this opportunity presented to me so you go

through all this checklist and you feel comfortable and then you just have to really go over the last the psychological barrier to basically do it

so let's just go through a couple of examples unfortunately what what I'm doing today you know I no longer talk about what we own so I pick up a couple

of examples of what I owned in the past you know I started this business in late 97.

and you know along the way been through a couple really traumatic events you know one is sort of the Asian financial crisis and then the technology bubble a couple of

the different things but during those period of time you tend to have more interesting opportunities let's start with uh

uh let's go back to 98. so it was a fall in 98.

and I tell you the search that I go through are very simple because I'm interested in all sorts of different business I usually just get a menus you know I got hooked to Value line while I was a

student here you know every issue as it comes out I just you know love to read the whole thing from beginning to end because that's really the best uh kind of

education if you want to have an encyclopedia knowledge base and database which you have to so just to go through

that to page after page after page is just enormously helpful and the first thing I always check is sort of the new low list you know that

the new kind of a low is the poor clothes the pillows of this looks that really attract me more than the new high list now this actually I don't have any

more of my copies I get rid of that so I asked them for reprint and the number is not right I mean I was looking more of somewhere around uh

I think is a September or something August that when the stock was roughly around 28 so this is a 46 it was not right so it's roughly call that 28 to

30.

now you look at this one you know what is the first thing jumps to you somebody gave me a a quick read yes right I am no change every year yeah

yeah anything else yes right right anything else now if you're investors you don't really

care where it was traded before actually oh hi Karen I tell you what I look for is that first look at evaluation and if the valuation doesn't fit I don't even want to really kind of go beyond so

what's what do we know about the valuation yes yeah yeah well that's a good point and what is the constitution of the book value so everything you know every time

you see is a below Book value I want to say what's in the book what's in the book how much is the book what

now that's simple you can just you know call it a 28 and then you got it what uh 11 and a half million shares roughly 300 or something low 300 million

just do approximate you don't have to really do all the quick ones and you'll see where it is now the uh the working capital is almost a 300 million in a

sense and of course it was the end of the uh Q3 and in retail what what do you know about uh kind of an end of a Q3 in retail

is that this is really where you know you're you're kind of a quick uh encyclopedia knowledge it really helps you all retails have built up a huge amount of imagery the last quarter

so you look it back to the previous years to say what is normal like this is it going to really collect a lot of cash by the end of the year so you say okay so there's a 300 million it's almost the

entire book value roughly 275 Olympia is in the uh is in the uh working capital everything else it canceled each other and so you'll probably collect about 100 million cash at the end of the quarter

if you look at the other two years so roughly you got a 200 million liquid asset and plus 100 million no fixed asset and if you do you know a little bit more study you're going to see it as the entirety buildings in real estate

basically so 300 and you're trading roughly 300 million and so 200 million is a is is a liquid asset and then about 100 million is uh is in real estate so

you've got a pretty decent protection on the downside so what do we know about the earnings the cash flows and the ones you want to really pay most

attention is basically kind of the the pre-tax and pre uh interest earning the unleveraged and you want to compare that it was unleveraged Capital that is needed in the business it gets you a

sense of what kind of business you're having how much they're making give me a quick sense how much is that well if you're a skilled it shouldn't really take you more than one second to find that out

you got 13 roughly of uh of of operating margins of 800 what 800 850 million so you get roughly 100 million 110 million

and what is a deployed capital how much capital is deployed in the business roughly you would have roughly about let's say

200 million in the in liquid asset and then about 100 billion in buildings and then the 200 million of liquid eyes are probably 100 Millions cash so you roughly have a 200 million

deploy to Capital and roughly returns about 110 million dollars so your return on your deploy to Capital roughly around 50 percent

at that point so that's not a bad business so you shouldn't really I mean you start with say either you give a five second look and you say hey the business I don't

care you know all the other things the business was trading roughly you know right around the book value book value is pretty clean uh is basically consists

of of a tangible liquid asset working capital plus uh you know 100 million in real estate and uh and the deploy to Capital is

basically two-thirds of that and and for that 200 million you'll return roughly 100 million or so and so they shouldn't be bad business to begin with

so next you check sort of why this whole thing sort of fall apart at that point sort of a missing I mean whenever you say something like that you say wow

that's not a bet you know if I own the whole business remember you always sort of think as yourself as a business owner if I own this business if I can buy the whole business at this price

you know you probably want to own it and it's actually it's not a bad name right most people recognize Timberland as a brand right

so what is the reason of the time was turned out is that was the height of the Asian financial crisis that all their competitors especially Nike and Reba

see their sales especially in the Asia falling out of a cliff and so the whole contingency sort of all their perils all the retailers those shoes and the international brand

anything that has exposure to Asia All Fall Apart but what else is is going on so you try you try to check you know what other people are thinking about this

you know you you may not really listen to their Vice but you want to really know what other people are looking at so you check to see whether there's any analysts reported Turn on there's no analyst report nobody covered this

well for a company is doing about a billion dollars in sales is you know it's a reasonable company it's a big brand so why nobody kind of a cover about this

any possible reasons you can speculate yes which is a good or bad for you fabulous for you fabulous for you and you go back to see 10 15 years the good

thing about value line is you go back to 10 15 years and you see whether they ever really need to that money what did you find in the business over the last whatever years

it's been growing the profitability has improved dramatically over the recent years but has always been pretty profitable

and therefore their need to full Financial Market is very limited any other reasons what's the ownership structure yes

yes what do you mean by Family oh they own 40 of it how much voting control they have a hundred percent vote

basically 98 right so immediately they turn off a whole bunch of people and then you see what you know how the investor has been basically reacting to them in the past

you can do a quick uh kind of a data search and this is really why you know I say that a a investor should really

investigative a journalist because we have a journalism here I'm sure if if I ask the journalist look at this question you know the first thing you want to say would it go through all of this question

I just asked and pretty easily you can find all the answers and very quickly and so you've got to have a very active

very curious mind and you just can what it really satisfy with any bogus answers otherwise you can't really be in this business so you go and you'll find there's actually a whole bunch of a

different shareholder lawsuit now you have an owner owns a 40 owns an almost 100 percent of the vote and most of the shareholder doesn't have a vote

and you have no analyst cover them and there are a whole bunch of shareholder lawsuit so immediately that if you don't know anything about the business if you're

the 95 of the other investor what conclusion you would a jaw what would be your conclusion if you were kind of you know a normal

mutual fund or a hedge fund trading oriented uh uh investment manager what would you say to this situation now that you'll find all this information please yep

right anything else yes I probably think I mean the problem is temporary right and uh the stock is more case and liquid right I may not put my money right

anything else yes yes anything else you guys are not skeptical enough what would you really worried about that

uh that management might be milking money from the company might be manipulating their books because they control everything there is virtually no uh they're virtually no

constraints on what they do and the fact that a whole bunch of a lawsuit it tells you to complain about something right so what do you do next what do you do next

well yes that's one thing anything what absolutely you'll download every single piece of the document of the court cases every single case and read them from

page and that's why I was saying that if you don't have a curious mind if you just if you just want to do it because you want to make money out of it the chances are you're not going to do this

you have to really figure that I just you know I'm just so curious they said what's happening this this doesn't add up

and you have to dig every single thing as you read everything as I did the first apart it takes a less than you know a couple minutes you look at that

one you say that's really what it's gonna be all the questions you read leads you to all of that so upon I can possibly find all the cases I can find

you know all the cases really don't really want the thing actually is basically one complaint it's just multiple filings um you know somebody really say well

they used to provide some guidance and they didn't deliver and the investor get pissed off and so the owner also get pissed off you can you know vividually see his defense

you can get a sense of his personality by reading those documents he said you know what I'm not going to do this anymore I'm not going to talk to the street I'm not going to give any guidance I don't

need a Dem of a dollar from anybody else the business is wonderful okay so that remove a big cloud so the next thing what do you do well if they

really run this uh run this way the next question is okay maybe they're not Crooks but are they good managers how do we know about other decent people how do we know about that

how do we go about to find that what do you do sure they're making a profit and if they owe it

sure anything else you can do how do you know his personality yes call his neighbors

good idea great what do you call what do you tell the neighbors I tell them the truth Eminem but yeah well one of the Market's concerns Maybe

what do you just say go to hell Johanna but most people will tell you go to hell but it's nice try anything else yeah

that's right there was no Google back then but that's a good idea now you want to the point is you've got to really go so as again again you know it just

happened to have a journalist here but I always view this job as investigative a journalist most of people who have build businesses

also have a big personality have a history you can go to audit ever lived a trail of evidence of what kind of person they are and what they have done how they deal

with the different situations it is not that difficult but you have most professional managers wouldn't really consider that as a part of the business but I'm telling you you're the five

percent if you end up to be the five percent maybe you're not but if you try to be that five percent that's what you do

you go to see their Community you go to the church of synagogues and you go you know you go visit everybody you'll sort of get yourself to be part of that

and you introduce yourself to all their friends and families and neighbors don't just call them go there spend a few weeks there it's worth it it's worth it

just to spend as much time you can possibly be to try to find him find what have it done to his community what does neighbors and friends tell about I mean say about him

that tells you more about this personality and you want to find the family of Dynamics this fellow actually only graduate to high school never really want to have a college

relatively simple guy but a nice decent guy has been very philosophic go to senegales but not terribly devoted

but the more interesting thing has a son who actually went to business school as well it was actually my age at the time it was in the uh 30s early to mid 30s and

as the time already assumed to be a CEO of the company so I did all the things I suggest to all of you I did further and I find what this signs

all the board of the father and the sons on and I find one of the board the son of azang actually is a run by a friend of mine so I invite myself to be on the board

so I joined on the board along with the sun and would become very close friend and then I really know what's going on in that family

it's turned out this is one of the most an admiring family I've ever met there are people of the highest integrity they're wonderful and they

also happen to be brilliant business memes so after all of that the stock actually still trading right around 30s and so that's sort of you kind of almost

ready you're sort of a no you know did I miss anything you sort of say probably not I didn't miss anything the other 95 percent just don't know or their industry imperative does not allow

them to do anything about it so what do you do at that point what do you do buy how much you want to buy and suppose we have a hundred dollars what

how much you say 200 okay well I like to talk to this class because you guys are not polluted it yet

now if you go to join a fund the first thing people to tell you is oh gee don't do anything more than 25 basis points and then you go with maybe 50 basis

point you do one percent that's 100 basis when they use a basis point every number sounds big this is a point that's a big deal that's what it's like

that's what it's like so keep your innocence because right now what you're thinking is the common sense think about how much effort you put in

to get this damn thing right think about how good it is you have virtually no downside you're trading roughly about five times and the next thing I did is I actually

went to all the different stores to see why in the last few years the margin improved substantially it's turned out there was a Fed going along in the in the uh especially in the

inner cities that all the little kids want to have you know the Timberland shoes and jeans and boy the things that you know all the store manager telling they couldn't really get enough stock

and you look at how much of their international business such as actually in shoes and in Asia less than 10. what they make out of that

less than 10.

10 out of the ten percent of the 27 so you calculate all of that you said are they all of them are gone you're losing money so what it reduce your earnings by less than

five percent so I put a shitload anybody know what happens afterwards in the next two years I mean you guys all have internet you can check right

away really you should do that you should why do you want to listen to all this you just do whatever you want to do as I said you know you're right now because

other people tell you to or agree with you right because you need to do that you need to check on that all of those things should come to you in no less than five minutes otherwise you're just

not a good analyst if you're not a good analyst you'll never be a good investor seriously so you have to at least technically train yourself to be very

very proficient with all of that well the next two years this damn thing went up seven times and the truth of the matter is doing all those time he was propelled about earnings and so he's doing all this time

you didn't you still did not have any risk it's not like you're hiding you know writing some technology company after they double tripled you expose yourself to a huge amount of attacks it was never

more than 15 times earnings never but if you traded from five times to you know to 15 times and the earnings has been growing in that period of time 30 a year

I mean they'd add up that add up and the other took over as a CEO and he had entirely different ideas about how to run a company it was very

articulated it's one of the most articulate person ever met Stu is so he doesn't mind to talk to General analyst Nation AIDS not earning guidance but endless meetings and the first

meeting against who you know how many people showed up it was him me and another analyst three people three people

and the last analyst when I sort of went kind of you know somewhere in 2000 the end of 2000. the room is just absolutely a field it was nearly 50 60 people

and Major Street Bricker House kind of initiate some kind of a cover issue so that's no I know when I have to sell so sold everything anyway let's go back and say hey

you know time kind of flipping this is sort of a year and a half ago yeah did you worry about what what in particular 19.

because that's really when the lawsuit occurred I have a period of a Time well they do have a misstep at that point uh because their product wasn't

right and they they build their business really on the reputation of this kind of waterproof uh that they're the first guy who really come up with this concept of waterproof

and so they did uh you know sort of make they send mixed signals of both waterproof tissues and non-waterproof tissues any marketing that was a mistake that

was a mistake and it confused the market and it confused the Integrity of their claim and and they suffered but even with that year the revenue

pretty much has still gone up I mean they have a one year of a blemish most of the time they have execute their business quite brilliantly yes

I don't know does not triggers are inside the trading point it does that's why I didn't really buy anything afterwards you don't have to

you already bought everything at 28.

you know you know when they go up you don't you just have to sit your ass on it don't have to do a damn thing that's good thing about really buying a good business the business take care of yourself I mean as a Chase set you're

writing up and down with the with with the strength of the business and it yes actually no more than a couple weeks I mean all of those surprisingly it

doesn't take all that long but but when the things happens you just have to really devote day and night into it day and night into it and that's why I'm glad my wife is actually here so

that I know all this missing by what I was doing you know the opportunity like that don't come very often so when it when it comes you have to seize it

you have to do everything complete but you have to do it fast and that's why you have to train yourself all those time and you don't have to do a damn thing put things into a bank that's okay you

don't have to buy anything but when opportunity comes you have to jump on it and that's what I did when you finish all of the things it doesn't take all that long but you take intensive work for a short period of

time yes well I like to read that one mostly because his inner self is a good activity

I don't have to find anything I learn and I'm curious about all businesses and that's why when the opportunity could come within a few seconds you can tell you can smell it how can you really

develop that smell the only way to do that is just reading page after page and value line is particularly good because it really puts you know all

sorts of the different datas and all sorts of of years in not just one year and so that's the you know easiest way for you to really learn a whole bunch of

different businesses yes so what percentage of your funding I I wouldn't really care for that conversation but a shitload

okay let's go back to a year and a half ago okay so this is a fall and you know this thing come from this book I mean this you know is you know this

you know this is like a stock you know standard poor uh well you know every every you know every broker has a book in every country give you you know one pay or summary of every company

you know it's just you know SMP has a book for U.S companies in which I use but I prefer to use value as I said because of a US company just give you more information and for other countries

they don't have value lines you go with this okay so I just flipping on that one at that point you know there's a one-page you know jumps out and so that's the page so what people can tell

you about that page yes right what do you mean by cheap well if you really think about your owner don't think about per shares okay so just train yourself from now on don't

think about per share numbers think yourself as an owner so give me what is the market cap come on that's simple come on and I thought you guys all did a homework did you

anybody did homework not a one-handed raise your hand if you did a homework one hand how the hell you're gonna make in this business

one hand you did it John yeah good tell me what is your uh what is a market cap okay anybody else it's very simple what is the ratio between Korean one and a dollar

what yes just divide by a thousand so do that right now what is the market cap what 87 million

roughly about 12 dollars roughly about what five and a half million shares how much is that don't use that one don't use it you know use your kind of you know get used to if

you want to read a lot of company you know there's a lot of a company this one okay each page should take no more than five minutes and the only way to do that is don't use those calculators you sketch

yourself into more of a mental little things you can really look at those things and immediately within five minutes you get a pretty good summary of the basic financial data

so don't use all of that tell me the numbers oh five and a half million okay this was 60 something million dollars it would take five ten million doesn't kill you

what is their earnings last year give me the kind of pre-tax number come on you guys you're the Columbia business school

it's a class you're the elite you expect to make 150 000 as a base what do we people pay you for what

what how much is that give me the pre-tax earning how much is that pre-tax earning just read a few lines before it's called

what is a net income 12 as a six months double that and the year before is what 24 million pre-tax 31 million you're trading at a 60 million dollars

of market cap roughly about two times what's your working capital what's your book value what is a book value come on

come on you guys have work to do this is not good Bruce I don't know what you're teaching them come on divide by a thousand there's 236

million it's simple 230 million dollars in book 60 million in your market cap 25 million net earnings of 31 million

pre-tax earnings how much is what is the constitution of the book value how do you really go about to do this we have to probably go through the basics okay who can tell me how do you really

do those things quickly just as an analyst you know what do you say about it when people ask me how do you really within five minutes

tell me the basic sort of structure financially in this company how do you go about Chase n one perfect assets

how much is it roughly another 180 million or so fixed assets perfect simple what do you use in businesses

use some fixed asset as I'm working capital that's it and the Goodwills they can really not account on that but that's it that's what you need to operate a business that's what you mean

by owner if you're owner you look at something like that you should be able to tell right away and if you can do this well as Bruce's fault I shouldn't really

afford you I mean that's the basic you you would learn right Okay so now here is the basic thing to come out of this one okay so this one is not to

give you a whole bunch of a different information right it tells you roughly is traded to 60 million dollars in market cap it has roughly about 30 million dollars

in pre-tax earnings and it has about 70 million roughly 180 million dollars in fixed

asset come up with 100 240 also million in Book value so what does it tell you what do you do next you look at that one it took you five

minutes you got this one what do you do next what how do we know it's cheap we think it might be cheap but you're not conclusion it's not

conclusive yet you have to you have to go you know next to find out what exactly what is the earning what is the book what is the Constitution the working capital what is in the in the

fixed right now I'm just basically using common sense or common logic I mean this is something you have to really think they don't have to go through any you

know this is sort of a you're still kind of a you know savable if you will if you you know that's why all my employee ever had really never went to a business school and never

worked for a uh kind of establishment management firm and some of them never had a county because I find it's easier to train them than somebody who did

clear it hasn't really demonstrated it here I mean if you sort of go through if they're teaching the right way you should be able to tell right right away what it is

okay so we did some work and it really takes enough no time of the 70 million in uh current asset you know how much is it's all cash

Securities treatable securities of 180 million over the 180 million in so-called fixed income

well they recorded they own 100 of a hotel they recorded a 30 million as a book they also own 13 of a department store

which should record on the book of 30 million it just so happened that department store is next page so it's easy for me to find I turn a

pager on I find the department store I discover it it is roughly had a market cap of a 600 million so 13 roughly give me what

roughly 80 million so the book really underestimate to the value by another 50 million and they also owe three cable companies

a bit ten percentage and they also rate a whole bunch of Real Estate and next when I look at that department store they look at

boy it has exactly the same profile they're trading roughly around the cash and security they own about two three times of their earnings and they owe a whole bunch of a

different asset turn out they're the second largest cable operator as well and the next thing I learned is this department store really functions more

like a hotel it's not a department store that we understand here they don't take any inventory they basically provides more like a shopping mall

and they're charged it by taking a percentage off the top line of all the merchants sell their stuff there okay so you edit it all up here is what you have okay you're paying 60 million

dollars you have a 70 million dollar in cash this is no debt 70 million dollar in cash you have another 100 million in your stock

is how much is that 170 million if a 30 million dollar is a hotel the value hasn't been changed over the last 10 years

and real estate in career has gone up dramatically over that same period of time I went to career and look at the hotel I look at all their department stores

it looks quite distant to me I track the recent transactions of all the things in the neighborhood they all indicate me and that value is more like a two three four times of what

is on the book but supposedly I take it on the book supposedly taken on the book let's add another 150 million how much we have right now

roughly 320 million or so which I paid is 60 million and besides I have an earning of about 30 million a year what did I miss

what did I miss yes good question what about it here any evidence of that could happen right

perfect Point absolutely a great Point anything else great Point anything else the internet governmental regulations it could hurt you every example would be

like free electric power which had uh right the government said you know low prices would have basically lost money right anything else

even the lawsuit like building what for the liability because of lawsuit you know what kind of a lawsuit it could be lost who found the customer or Foundation

supplier you know that could happen to any company right the reason that specifically for this company or any company any company anything else

so far I haven't heard anything about local market as if the only guy would really bother about those or foreign investors what about the local market what about what other investors are

seeing and looking and thinking good point look at it that's why I give it to you I thought you're going to do it yes what's that

absolutely and how much does it owned by the Insiders foreign you've got a whole bunch of different things against you you also have a whole bunch of a

different thing that really in your favor you have to go through all of it each one and think rationally carefully you have to add to that list of the attitude

of the local investors the other people who are buying because there's nobody from foreign that really own this damn thing if you check that so you go through all of that

and we don't have time to go through all of that but you should and then you'll come up with a solution I mean uh come up with your decision as I have

I sort of own it and what happens to the stock since well again nobody's of any competitor or whatever you can check

okay so I'll have two chars that uh that are print out directly from Bloomberg one is that the department store

it was traded around to somewhere around 22.

last I checked it went to about 100.

and then and this one star was 12. I asked a check is around 70 or something each went up about five six times anyway well I gave a couple an example

just to tell you that uh this type of approach is not natural to an investor it's not natural to you

however if for whatever reason you come to the conclusion that you yourself your personality somehow

fit in this mutated gin poo that this is something that you might really be looking to do the only thing that I can add to that

is that there's a lot of money in it as has been complete I mean repeatedly proved by people from Ben Graham to

buffing and everybody else and I have been the probably just most a grateful

to this class to Bruce and actually many years before I came to business school I took that class and really changed me fundamentally but one thing you do have

to do is you got to do it I mean that's why I was somewhat disappointed of what you know that the amount of work you have put into places I tell you I made a hundreds

of thousands of dollars just taking this class just listening to the 14 15 people but it did a lot of work I'm telling you you can make a lot of

money if you're really into this not only just listen but do it I mean don't you guys you know how much you spend you know coming to a school

here how much you spend what is the tuitions aboard and all of that stuff what is it now what 70 all together

well you need at least to make it that up I mean you should at least make seventy thousand dollar back right and you also have a two years you're not making anything you got to make that up

how do you make it up this is a terrific way to do it and so that's sort of kind of my last point I want to make is

the only reason I've come back and really so I don't really talk about our Holdings anymore this is actually we don't hold any of those two stocks anymore um the only way I do that is because all

the you know when I came here prior to business school and did and doing the business school you know most people who talk about names

and I benefit hugely hugely just by listening and actually do it that's the difference and then back then that was more than

you know 10 15 years ago I made you know roughly hundreds of thousands in one stock is more than a hundred thousand back then I think our cause was always a

little bit lower than the 70 I think I mean it was I can't remember what it was but but it was a lower but that's Professor you're into this class for this class is different from

any other classes because there's no Theory all everybody's telling you is what works is what works

and if they don't tell you that one well ask them they should well maybe they should but I did okay so

this you're the sort of you you guys have a terrific opportunity we'll be able to bid all the points that got into Bruce's class and if you don't really use this

thing shame on you you gotta do it I mean those are things really there's so much gold in it that little Pages the little books those value lines all of them you've got to

use it you got to do it I mean you're young you have energy you know what to lose there's nothing to lose yes

yes go ahead what in the research that you're doing what are some common pinballs well that

the the most okay so if you're analyst okay I always tell my analysts I only need two things from you and if you want to be analyst and you need to be analyst of course before you become a good investor you want to provide accurate

and complete information accurate and complete most people failed on both score big time

and you just have to go to that extra length you order to get it done if you can't succeed on that one you can't succeed in this business

because most of the time you're going to stand alone basically against just about everybody else and if you're not really confident about what you know and you're confident about

your prediction what other people know or don't know you can't possibly be putting that kind of a money when the things go into a free fall

when it looks like you're really losing all your money when everybody always is laughing at you all the Smart Guys so you must be able to First do accurate

and complete and the second thing in this business okay most money are not made on those stocks I was just talking about

your biggest amount of money you're going to ever make is not from that those are things that really get your bread and get your basic business going

and give you the basic returns they do not provide you outsized return even if both stock went up five six times they do not give you the alt size returns

if you're a value investor in the truest descents okay so there are two schools I mean you can do the treaty problems you can do the Ben grams um or you can do the buff and longer

type which is more of kind of what I interested in if you want to be that way your return is going to come from a handful no more than no more than

number on the two hand in your entire life of maybe 50 years of tremendous insight tremendous insight you're gonna again

that no other people have how do you really build that insight there's no other way other than basically continuous curiosity intense

curiosity continue as a study for your whole life anything that works yeah do doing this kind of analysis what particular mistakes that you made

well I every time I failed all those are three scores I made a mistake every time I didn't really get accurate information I made a mistake complete information had made a mistake I did not

I thought I have it inside it wasn't inside I made a mistake every time I failed all three scores I made a mistake and they're plenty well on the big bet I ever made I I

don't recall we ever made a mistake I shot on the big bet now my biggest mistake actually is not making a couple bet

biggest mistake I made is that during the course of a micro that you know I had a spectacular returns but I couldn't raise any money

because every time I go out to talk to people people basically said what the hell you're talking about I want a monthly I want a two weekly I want a weekly returns I want you to go

up you know in a down Market man that's what I wanted I want you to be a bank accepted yield better well and you were hedge fund aren't you

so anyway so but that's you know I couldn't really what in the end I sort of there was a couple you know a couple years not hey that's okay I'll do some of those

conventional stuff I'm moving to Julian Robinson's you learn from the best practice of other hedge fund managers and somebody else kind of work on the uh

shorting all of that you know essentially sort of useless things uh it turned out to be and I I was sort of business myself with

all sorts of Adventure because if you're in shorting you just have to trade there's no other choices because you know your upside is 100 your downside is unlimited you have to treat

and so so you really and your your mentality changes somewhat you can't no longer really you're basically kind of

put yourself into the what Charlie says about kind of if you're doing things like that he was just as if you you know bond to your

hands behind you you know ass kicking game something like that it's true it really is true and that was the period of time that I probably have the biggest

opportunity of company that I have an absolute Insight management that I know that are treating below cash and subsequently went up 50 to 100 times

and I missed it to really bring myself into it it doesn't really fit into this oh this is that was the biggest biggest

mistake I made is not how much money I lost it was how much money I forgot I make I lose money of course I do I do make mistakes from time to time and usually you made a mistake here when you

haven't really quite a finished all your work but you like it you know enough so it's a Timberline you know at 280 awesome but I haven't finished all the work and I said on itself the probabilities with

me um and but I added a lot lot more after a finish of the whole process well sometimes you know as you're sort of finding more and more you prove your thesis Wrong by then you lost 20 30 you

saw it okay so you're wrong take the mistake run you know move on but Oz is with you if you're buying a stock at it with a sufficient margin of safety

the probability is with you so if you do that long enough and with you know relatively smaller amount of bed of course you have a note everything then you're okay you're not

going to likely to lose a lot of money but if you cannot really bet on the things you know and you know you have Insight no other people have it

and that's the biggest mistake I cannot forgive myself for making that mistake no because I still might have a chance to do that

no seriously you go through your life you may not have no more than 510 inside and your develop of that one over many many years with study

some of the things I'm doing really I find myself doing that 15 years ago I studied American company and now I find the Asian counterpart and I find the valuation that I like I

find I can really bet I study their business for 15 years in between I know everything about that industry and what really makes that business takes

you need to have that kind of insight in order to really you can really swing with conviction and if you cannot do that either psychological or because you're ill

prepared you just will never really make any real amount of money I mean you go through you know you do what Ben Graham does what Tweety Brown does you're going to

have your 10 15 a year and you're likely to do much much better than most of the professional managers the 95 of other people but you're not going to make the

outsize return the Buffett have have been able to achieve and you may not have that opportunity throughout your life why it should be easy

opportunity of that kind that gives you a hundred thousand ten thousand times their biggest ideas are really give them ten thousand times opportunity if done once in your life

you're set why that could be why should that be easy by definition they're not and you require a whole bunch of different factors to come together you know what really Charlie would have

called it what is the term a lot of lollapalosa you've got all sorts of a different kind of the things working on the conscious level the subconscious level the SEC psychological level political whatever

you got a whole bunch of the forces working together you got a huge wave behind you and you were the one who are the only one who have the inside and is

willing to bet backed by sound complete accurate information and a huge insight and that's what you're sort of really drives

me in this business exciting is utterly exciting and you got to learn everything you know my interest is just you know I

started uh it was a physics mathematics and it got into economic history law politics I like everything I'm interested in everything and that's what you needed you might need models from

biology my wife has a PHD in biology and actually you know I learned a lot from her over the years and actually some of them helped my investment except she didn't know

that's maybe why she's here to check wait so you're gonna learn you have to learn from everything you have to be intensely curious about whatever and occasionally you're going

to stumble into one big opportunity meanwhile you still have plenty of things like you know the Timberlands the Hyundai you know department store hns you're

going to find those opportunities from time to time give you a few times return that's not bad that's not bad yes depends you know there will be probably

there's ever she's a meaningless because the opportunities are different you know there might be years you don't really have a lot of opportunity and there might be years you have a lot of opportunity it just sort of

it it all depends on what really become available to you but one thing I guarantee is they don't really come in steady Pace I

don't really have a steady kind of once a month once a week type of idea never had that throughout my career back into the times you know when I started this thing 15 years ago when I

was at Columbia at the time I was undergraduate student when I bought um I think through all to that maybe five six years of what I was in school at

College Law School in a business school maybe I have a maybe three four big ideas that really pay off big and you know how do you average that out

and then afterwards you know I get a little bit better you know the about this approach is aggressively get better and better and better to the point you look a page like that

it takes a couple minutes to tell you right away whether something could jump out you can smell it when you say something so you get better and better and better so you might actually have

more opportunity or the market is just not cooperating and you don't have a lot of opportunity good ideas a year goes by that's okay but I do not want to a whole year goes

by it whereas I did not learn anything I do not establish a good Insight well at least I thought it was a good Insight or destroy the inside I thought I had

you want to go through every day by learning something it's a good mental discipline to have and a year goes by you'll have to learn a great deal

well I wrote a book and it gave me a little bit of advancement and somebody paid a small amount of money and bought the movie

right for that and but my negative my net worth is a negative because you you have a whole bunch of borrowings but I have cash and so

that was pretty good you know on balance you know my net worth I mean it's a casual it just couldn't really offset of the debt but I do have cash so I was very very lucky in that regard

well I wouldn't say there's only two divisions all of the things you list that's all searching ideas okay so when I read the biologies or when I read physics

when I read history which is really one of my favorite things it's all searching ideas when I do business when I when I find an idea I want to read it but if I find an

idea that are actionable say if I kind of one of those things jumps out that's all I do okay if I don't have I do the other one and then the rest of the time is basically with

my kid and white wife we've got two little ones little girls one and a half and three and a half and they're really just you know I learn from them too because to see how human

cognition really develop which is enormously important when you try to really figure out is it in my checklist is okay is that cheap is that a good business who's running it what

did I miss you know I go through all the checklists when I go to the who did I what did I miss that is hugely important to understand

psychology to understand human cognition and no other places is better than really observing how humans develop those cognition from early on

and that's why actually you know playing with my two little girls really helped me tremendously as investor so I guess it's all work anyway

anything and in addition to all of that I would also add one more thing okay so you know I said there's a three things distinguish a value investor okay so

you've got business owner mentality you have a different time Horizon simply you demand a huge margin of safety but it's all come from one thing which is sort of your business owner and

your cautious business owner and you can't control the outcome of the management therefore you demand a compensation it's almost self-defense of a margin of safety and then because your business owner you tend to be long-term

they're all the same now people would ask me okay if you're a business owner okay why the hell you're double with the stock market stock market is not it's Min it's not min

for the business owners it means for the people who can treat that was the attraction of the stock market that's when 95 would never buy into this idea

because if everybody supposedly everybody this would never happen because of human nature but supposedly 100 of the people all are you know value investors would therapy a

stock market no hell no who would have buy IPO we thought IPO where is the stock market come from where the secondary Market come from

and if everybody demand a huge margin why anybody would have sell to you so that's why I started the lecture by basically saying that you are basically you you are

you're not you do not belong to the stock market and there's but you have to always always understand that perspective and therefore to position yourself properly

and don't get carried away but if you really really truly a business owner then you will be attracted naturally sooner or later

into owning businesses and that's why Buffett really left it Monger left it each of them runs a partnership for 13 years and they buy businesses

run a real company or if you're really kind of you know into that money if actually you become sort of private equity

if that's more like a real business in a sense but there was Evolution but as long as humans

I mean a value inversion with that kind of perspective would always find something to do something profitable to do in the market does not mean that's not designed

for them one is that the people designed for fundamentally flawed to people

that basically they're attracted it because they want to treat and if you want to trade you're bound to make a mistake you're

bound to really get your emotions carried over there's a fear of greed or whatever the other emotion in between you're bound to make mistake and so when that happens they'll always

always be room for guys like use supposedly you are that kind of that five percent there will always be opportunity for you okay what's

that what drives your decision to sell that's a very interesting question I I evolved over that question I used to have a philosophy if I don't want to buy at that prize myself

that was used to be my philosophy and I find myself evolving a little bit from that one because occasionally I find a business

a fine insight that I just like the business so much I all of a sudden find myself being a real owner but basically saying somebody tried to

attempt it to really get me to sell because the price is very good you know the sort of as a is not something I'm willing to buy put it that way to that price

but my hunch is the probability is with me that over the next 10 years bigger and better and better and that's really the law of a

distribution of a good business system the leaders take a disproportionate amount of capital and in certain industries that advantage that huge advantage

and that's when I really began to think okay so now you got to do a different calculation okay you sell and you may not be able to find another opportunity

to buy it back and B you have to pay a huge amount of tax because at that point assuming you're right you already accumulate a giant amount of attacks which you have been borrowing from

government interest-free essentially if you don't sell you basically borrow you're leveraging your position by a margin of 30 or something I mean in my case it'll be 50 if by the time you add

12 in this you know stayed all of the other stuff it's like you know 40 50 percent so you're leveraging a position 40 to 50 percent interest free and it's not

called upon and is indefinite loan from the government to you and so if you can think and the business will be able to deploy that capital

edit return that roughly uh you know it's not even 15 it's superb business I usually find as a 50 to 100 return on deployed capital

and they were able to deploy that boy that mathematics again very very interesting very quickly now the caveat for that one is you have

to be confident reasonably confident to be able to project that long and I want to say there's owning a hun a hundred of opportunities your entire lifetime you'll be able to project that

far off if your investment banker all you do is really project into infinity and that's you know it's a everybody else knows a you don't know you

can't really project for the next day how do you know you can really go to you know assumption for the next five years and after another another five years an Infinity terminal value all of that

it means nothing it means absolutely nothing however I predict if you are good if you spend your entire lifetime study

you might be able to come across over a course of a 50 years career maybe five to ten opportunities in which you can confidently project

with overwhelming eyes next 10 20 years at that point you don't sell what do you want to sell you've got a government really lending

your money 40 compounded interest-free and it would have never really kind of asked the money back and you can really project I mean and The Business of deploying the capital

in the order of a 40 to 100 a year and also very tax efficient and that's what you do

that's what you do what besides because we don't have that none of the business is really fit in that category

they're not that kind of business I do have some business in my portfolio that really kind of belong to that category that I was just talking about that's why I'm not talking about it can

you describe generally what you look for exactly a business of that kind and you have to really look for this you have to find that advantage of the dis be established

oh well whatever the reason they establish is getting stronger and a stronger and stronger what would be some examples like that could be some examples somebody studied

us yes give me example okay anybody else anybody else give me some examples I mean that's really where that's sort of you know why the business

school really kind of calls you this much this is why I mean you you really get into the frame of mind at least the habit of thinking about those things what really make one business more

successful than the others what is their advantage why they're making more and more and more and more money and some is just doing less and really

go up and down why is it have you discovered any business and by the way the only way you can find that is by studying the ones were already established

yeah is Anthony nicotine what was that you know it may not be in the U.S

what really make uh Phyllis Morris uh Marlboro more than the other brands of years ago

okay that's a good one that's something that I really prefer but um everything I had a addictive product marketing people happy you had product

that was a good cheap and I came up with the other one a lot he said had all these things where it was just an unassailable business people really wanted it and you know everyone the whole world could use it it was you know it was a

substitute for water because basically you know he said back in 1870 you should be able to figure out what this business will be anything else changes

that you get depth of liquidity that's a good one why is that because you need credibility

Hangouts we control access through a certain geographic location s anything else trucking companies you always need

transport Goods what trucking companies they're always transporting goods yep are you agreeing with all these well they're basically reciting the uh

portfolio about that so you know the result has a great I don't need you to read to agree with that the result have a great yes I do agree with that but I want you to really comma something that

Bob and I haven't bought something that you think of something that really sort of he's ready in other words I don't want you just get that one because you got a stand of approval from somebody who's really

already firmly established as the reading agency value investor give me a name that he doesn't own but also share those characteristics give me a name

Berkshire portfolio okay that's a good one why is that you just oh you're already kind of outline yeah

what's that okay what tell me why cell phone towers yep [Music] given all the reason why the tower companies all failed

virtually all of them went through bankruptcy no they came out American Tower close [Music]

that's a good one one of my free company was American power but I was a student that's a good one any other one yes

[Music] you can't open any new quarries because you can't get fun and uh transport pour it far over that economic

yep I find out why my yep um kind of what any other one how about are the ones everybody use go

ahead what's that building materials why is that and what about the competitors how many of them are there Millions you answer my question

anything else anything else what do you use every day to do your research what's that value lie okay what else you use

make sure you use computers and there's millions of them same as the booty materials what Capital IQ what

good for you now when Bloomberg is introduced there was a bridge and Reuters why they succeeded why Bloomberg succeeded

I think that they are very user friendly and you can perform a lot of different analysis you are and on top of that they have a

lot of information so you can pretty much track everything the only thing is that they fail a little bit sometimes in the real time aside from that you can do everything

good answer anybody else can come up with this one let's talk about Bloomberg a little bit because this is something you everybody use any other reasons you can think of what okay

okay anything else what kind of research anything else partner at Solomon Brothers and trading departments so they're they're analytics

were far more detailed and far more okay okay High switching costs why is highest switching cost um

opportunity costs of their time for all the elements prayers I heard this is the best answer all of the things you talk about is true but this is really the most important reason

this is why that there will be moment there will be in any businesses and while it reads this example is because it's really virtually all business you are observed

not all of them really went through this dramatic example but they all went through a similar type of examples of transformation and sometimes something is just happening in certain industry that if

you really went through different Industries you can almost tell where that outcome is going to come out this is why you got to study this is a

fabulous case study of how you know a company really come from nowhere going into an industry that already has a number of established long established uh players

and somehow really began to make it in load little by little and a certain points crossed a milestone point after that they've become a monopoly where is the bridge where are the royalters

they're gone to go partially because partially because at a certain point exactly as you said at a certain point

anything that is a hard to learn that is highly highly uh you highly highly kind of relied upon

to do your daily work once you learn that damn thing you do not want to learn that again and besides everybody else using the same thing you have to be able to

communicate with your partners or your colleagues anybody you collaborate with big business The Winner Takes all now how do you read it get to that point is interesting question

but supposedly you have an opportunity to observe how this industry evolved early on supposedly you really observe and see at a certain point they have across that

line maybe it is the time when they really introduce them to every Business School so that you know when you graduated okay so yes

okay I have this one available cheaply to me I'll learn this thing but once I graduate go into the world I don't want to learn that again and everybody else is using that whatever is the time there will be a

time and that that lie has been crossed and supposedly there is a public company supposedly you have a developer that

insight that Insight worth a shitload of a money that's the kind of insight I was talking about

and that is a virtual monopoly business and you'll find that again again in all sorts of a different business this is not alone why Microsoft

succeeded brilliantly over Apple when Apple is 100 of a market share at the time when they came in but little by little they cross that line

so that when you debated between apple or or Microsoft and say okay I learned this thing because I have to go to work and

all the company that I want to go they use I don't have a choice do you even have a choice today of not using Bloomberg what is the cause of Bloomberg

what is the cause anybody knows nothing you can almost call that zero they put some cost because they pay themselves very well what do they do

they do research they don't do any research what do they do they come to visit you periodically almost every month and ask you what do you use on a

daily basis you're a Trader you're 95 of the people you're just you know superstitious I mean if there's certain numbers works for you I look at that number all the time

I develop a software for you only for you how many functions Bloomberg has tens of thousands does Bloomberg have a

manual hell no they want to give you a manual they want to get you individually hooked on the two three four five five six

things and they can charge do that every day you're in the business every treat it can really means millions of a game of law so you don't care pay

them a thirty thousand dollars a year and if they really charge you 10 every year more you don't have a choice you don't have a choice

and they keep coming back to you because they know you're a traitor you're going to look for different things and so they continuously to provide you the surface

and therefore you're hooked and a hooked and hooked you're hopeless you're absolutely hopeless Beyond repair meanwhile they will never give you a menu

that would never let you know the cost it's not a cost of class model that's why it's a fabulous business fabulous business

and they make each one of you individually hooked to one product which cost them nothing and to the point they can really dictate and Bully their suppliers

they pay them nothing all they have is the softwares to get you hooked and who gave them that information you don't even do research they come to you

what do you need I give that to you think about it switching from that think about a competitor coming up with another product

that each individual you know we're talking a hundred thousand professions individually in a hundred thousand different way how do you compete

how do you compete I don't know what you really why you use that for I don't know there's no menu now supposedly you know that suppose it is a public company supposedly you know

the moment of the inflection point do you want to invest I would that's what I mean by Insight okay you study every business every business I

guarantee you they're all going through up and down synthetic in terms of the result as this one but they all have more or less this type

of Dynamics your job as a good financial analyst as an investor as a value investor as a business owner is to study that business all the time

and observe those trends and once you're alive Maybe years you'll be able to come up with opportunity like that

that is actually available I like Bloomberg now he's in that position of a selling Alex he doesn't want to sell why doesn't need a cell

I always have a huge premium price there will always always be 30 times earnings but hell he'll lose a whole bunch of a lot every time you want to sell he doesn't need to sell

that's when I really began to evolve with my philosophy from if I don't buy or sell into something that I just said when you have

things like that you don't need to sell you don't need to sell any other questions oh sure any whatever questions yeah

after you're making your investment right how in love are you with the business and the management well by the way after making the investment how

involved do you guys that was all different you know I've made a whole bunch of private investment I served by the chairman of two of them on the board of several including

Capital IQ you know what when we build a capital IQ we intentionally copied the Bloomberg business model and I'm really building another model and I really copied the same one for the

engineers basically any High professionals that need to that kind of things so you know you know all the Insight you learn can be applied for different businesses in that case I'm very active

friend of the word a lot of the time in the larger shareholder and a lot of otherwise you know this Hyundai department store I couldn't even get a call I couldn't even get a

reception list to really take my call I went to there and visit everything uh I saw all the properties but couldn't get anybody to talk to me but by and large I

like to know as much as I can possibly know I want to be with the friends you know there's a Timberland situation we'll become such a great friend the CEO the son actually become my investor so

that's the kind of relation I want to have eternity but you always try you always try because that uh everyday business decisions you

can learn you can observe you wouldn't know the dynamic of that particular industry at that particular moment and nothing is constant that's the interesting about business

nothing is constant and that's why I have to keep relearning things the things you sort of you concluded you know the ones the analysis we just went through with it with Bloomberg maybe a couple years is different I don't know

what would cause the difference but it could be and I have also there observed you take an example of Microsoft the Dynamics different it's no longer the same now you've got a

free software it posts a completely different scenario every business constant all sorts of different things going to cause that change

and that's good thing that's a good thing that's why people who is active mind and really actively prepared and have the psychological temperament to be able to

act when he really sees inside an opportunity would always always have a chance to be fabulously rich

that's the note here foreign