LIVE: Living With His Parents to High Stakes in 2 Years

I got a big big [music] blind and a little little suit. Yeah. A big big blind and a little little suit. We love

poker. Oh, yes we do.

We do.

We're just little hungry horses, [music] dude.

[music] [music] [music] Heat. [music]

Heat. [music] Heat.

[music] [music] Hey, [music] [music] hey hey.

Heat. Heat.

[music] [music] [music] [music] Hey, [music] [music] hey hey.

[music] Hey.

[music] Hey. Hey. [music]

Hey. Hey. [music]

[music] [music] [music] Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat.

[music] [music] [music] I got a big big blind and a little little [music] suit. Yeah,

a big big blind and a little little suit. We [music] love poker. Oh, yes we

suit. We [music] love poker. Oh, yes we do.

We do.

We're just little hungry horses, dude.

[music] [music] Hey, down. [music]

down. [music] [music] down.

Down.

[music] [music] Heat. Heat. N.

Heat. Heat. N.

Heat. Heat. N. [music]

[music] Down.

[music] Down.

Round [music] [music] [music] go down go down.

Down.

You're [music] I [music] got a big big blind and a little little suit. A big big [music] blind and a little little suit. We love

poker. Oh, yes we do. We do.

We're just little [music] hungry horses, dude.

[music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] Heat. Hey, Heat.

Heat. Hey, Heat.

[music] [music] [music] [music] Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat. [music]

[music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]

Hey, hey, hey. [music]

hey, hey. [music] [music] I got a big big blind and a little little suit. Yeah,

little suit. Yeah, a big big blind and a little little suit. We [music] love poker. Oh, yes we

suit. We [music] love poker. Oh, yes we do.

We do.

We're just little hungry horses, dude.

[music] Welcome, welcome everyone. uh have a special live stream for you today. We

got twocard Tito. Gonna go over his backstory, what it was like to climb to high stakes and uh talk to him about how he went from basically living with his

parents to playing some of the biggest live stream games in the country in under two years. And I think actually today he's playing on the loud. So,

we're going to talk about that, dig into his background a little bit before we bring him in, maybe answer a question or two from you guys. Guys, I know we're early. We're early today. Early in the

early. We're early today. Early in the morning. I think it's like 9:00 a.m. in

morning. I think it's like 9:00 a.m. in

California right now. So, usually we do this later, but I see you guys are uh you guys are jumping in right now. So,

maybe we answer a question or two.

Bunny, what do we got? Put them up there. We'll we'll we'll answer them.

there. We'll we'll we'll answer them.

Chloe's here. Chloe, I thought you were uh I thought you had like a a school bus driving thing this morning.

Mr. T says, "How do you deal with big dealer mistakes like mixing up the hands at showdown one card from each player and awarding the pot rung?" I Mr. T, where are you playing? Are you playing in like Bellaroo? Like what what place

are you playing where the dealer is mixing up cards at showdown? I think you need to play somewhere that is that the dealer knows what's happening. Uh I I don't know. Don't play at a home game.

don't know. Don't play at a home game.

Play at a casino. I feel like that doesn't happen at casinos. I don't know.

Uh Bunny, what's next?

Is there a number after which you'll stop playing once you have that much money? Uh this is we're going to save

money? Uh this is we're going to save this question and we're going to give this question to Cartito. I think this is a good one for him. I' I'd like to I'd like to dive into that one with him because that's one I'm always curious

about when we ask poker players like when do you stop? Pastrami on Rise says, "What are the things that wreck amateur players romanticize about going pro that are the most wildly inaccurate?" Well,

I'm gonna give you my take on this one and then maybe we'll let uh Mr. Tukard chime in as well. Um, for me, I think that it's it's freedom. Uh, you're gonna have freedom to do whatever you want.

You can wake up when you want. You can

And it doesn't really work that way.

It's like once you get to a certain level, it's like the game goes at this time, you have to be there at this time, and you have to continue playing until the VIP wants to stop playing

essentially. So, uh, without further

essentially. So, uh, without further ado, let us, uh, let's bring him in right now. Mr. Matteos, two card Tito.

right now. Mr. Matteos, two card Tito.

Where is he? Why is he not on my screen?

I'm trying to get him on my screen, but I don't see him on my screen.

There he is. Well,

what's up, Mark? Can you see me?

There we go. Yeah, it's working.

Beautiful. How are you?

Good, dude. How about you, gentle? Um, let's jump in. Can you give

gentle? Um, let's jump in. Can you give us like your backstory? Like, how did you where did you start? Like, why did you start? How old were you? What got

you start? How old were you? What got

you into poker in the first place?

Yeah, man. Before this call, I actually had to like go back like so. I'll try

and like write notes every few months to like kind of keep my poker journey in my mind because everything really starts to blur together. I feel like after a few

blur together. I feel like after a few years of playing. Um, so I was reading through my notes and I think I started I played poker like my first hand of poker

ever during like summer of 2020. Um, I

think I was home from COVID. We got all sent home from COVID during college. I

was a freshman and my friends and I just like started firing up some like 5-cent 10-centent type of thing in in the basement of my house. We actually didn't play it with blinds. We did where

everyone anties like 10 cents. It was

like no blinds. Like it's just like we were just like I don't even know if we knew the positions or whatever, but um just like be using the hand chart and stuff and I was obviously like

completely terrible uh to start but got interested in the game. I wanted to get better because I was kind of sick of losing because we played a few times that summer. So, I bought like an audio

that summer. So, I bought like an audio book and I would listen to it like on the way to go play for like, you know, 45 seconds.

Who was the audio book from?

It was uh The Little Green Book, I think, by like Phil Gordon or something.

I I don't remember.

One of the Phils.

One of one of the Phils. Yeah, one of the old school Phils. So, [laughter]

I can't really imagine what the strategy advice was in that book, but it was like uh that was kind of the start to my my poker journey. And then it really didn't

poker journey. And then it really didn't get serious for a long time. Like

basically for the first two years of me playing like it was just completely for fun with with my friends essentially.

Like I bought that audio book basically never used it. um deposited like a tiny bit of money on ACR and I'd be like on calls with my friends and we'd be like laughing and like I'd be playing like 25

and L on there. Um and then I would like run out of Bitcoin or whatever because I would just obviously dust it because I had no idea what I was doing and then it would like I would take a few months off and then and then get back into it. It

wasn't until my junior year of college where I quit playing I played college soccer and that took up most of my time and then I quit playing soccer and I had like way more free time. I enjoyed

poker, so I was like, "Hey, maybe I'll like start taking this more seriously.

See if I can make some like side side money playing, which is honestly delusional at the time given I was just like an absolute whale just dumping every time I played. Um, but so I just

bought a bunch of books. Mastering the

Micro Stakes by Alton Harden, Grinder's Manual by Peter Clark. I was always a book guy to be honest, like before I got more into poker. I got away from books because that's generally not a method I

would advise learning from if you want like up-to-date info for the most part.

Um but yeah, so I just like read a bunch of these books like learned pre flop more and then I started playing a bunch of 2NL on ACR like six table.

My entire strategy was just playing pre flop like okay like I would just get in queens or jacks plus essentially pre and then like just c bet every board and then like if I didn't have anything on

the turn I would check if I had something I would like keep betting that's like all I did and I could just kind of play like a monkey for hours and I I was winning at 2NL online. Um and

then yeah I don't know I can I can keep going or I can slow down if you want to dive.

No, this is good. How how did you get from 2NL to like what was the process of going from 2NL to playing like 100 200 on stream?

Yeah, I mean there was a lot of ups and downs between that. So

2 and L was like I think I played like 50 50,000 hands at 2 and L and like I saw it as practice obviously like I wasn't like I'm going to grind up the

money from 2NL to then 5NL to then 10.

That was not that was not like my plan.

Um I was like pretty clear that like I was just doing this for fun. I wanted to get better like cheaply essentially and then I would like find ways to make money in poker. Like I was going to be play like live poker or something

because there was a casino like 45 minutes away from me that was 18 plus in New Hampshire. So I kind of had like a

New Hampshire. So I kind of had like a plan to go play that eventually. Um but

yeah, I continued this like playing online grind and studying thing for a while. I had like a front desk job at

while. I had like a front desk job at school that like supplemented my income.

Like I worked at a gym um and it was a night shift. So I would just like study

night shift. So I would just like study when I was there because there was like no one in the gym. So I would just like watch YouTube videos and like learn um while I was there. People always ask me like what should I do if I'm in college and I'm like trying to get into poker.

I'm like get like a job at like a self- storage facility and like graveyard shift when there's like no one there and then like you're just making money and getting paid to study essentially. Um,

but yeah, so I did that for the better part of my junior year. Then the second half of my junior year, I decided to go play one, two live at the casino. I

think I had like 2,000 bucks saved up and I withdrew like $600 from the campus like ATM and I drove to this casino and I was like literally shaking when I when

I walked in there. Um, I was so nervous and I sat down to play one two and I doubled my very first hand of live poker.

What was the hand?

I had ace jack. It's a very questionably laid hand by me in hindsight, but at ace jack, some guy opens to like $12 from like EP. I like flat the cut off, which

like EP. I like flat the cut off, which is like already like very sus. And then

go flop comes down like jack 44 or something. He bets, I call.

Turn. Um

is like brings in a flush, I think. He

bets again. I call. Then rivers another jack.

Oh, I saw this story.

Yeah. Yeah. And he goes he goes all in and I don't realize I have a full house.

So I think about it for [laughter] like like a minute and a half and then I eventually call and the guy like when I sat down also I told everyone this is my first time playing live poker. So I

really apologize if I do anything that comes off as rude or like my etiquette is poor because I genuinely do not know.

And this guy goes all in and then I call after a minute and a half and he like snapmucks his hand. I'm like, "Why the [ __ ] did he just throw away his hand?" I

don't know what's happening. Like why

why did he just throw it away? So I just show my hand and then I think the table's kind of like all right. This guy

really has no idea what's going on. He

just took a minute and a half to [laughter] call with the dust. Um but

yeah, guy was a psycho. Tried to [ __ ] bluff me my first hand after I told everyone it was my first time playing live poker. But after that, man, it was

live poker. But after that, man, it was like I was completely addicted. I think

I won like a few hundred bucks that first session and I was like I mean this is the freest money of all time. Like

I'm I'm the goat. Like I I looked at my hourly after that session too. I was

like wow look how much money I could be making an hour if I kept doing this.

Like I was very delusional still at that like I didn't know anything obviously at that point. Um but yeah basically after

that point. Um but yeah basically after that I was like every day I would come back study for like an hour or something then go to the casino if I had time or I would just like play online in my computer.

kept that process up for a long time.

Got some internships over the summer which helped me save money. And then uh by the end of my senior year, I'd hired a coach and I was playing 500 NL on

Ignition. Um and then playing like 25

Ignition. Um and then playing like 25 Live essentially at Encore Boston Harbor.

Hold on. Hold on. Closest to me.

You're playing 500 NL but also 25 Live.

Okay. So

talk to me about the skill difference in these two games.

Yeah. So,

I mean, it's like really funny like people always ask that question. Do you

know what I mean? When they're like, "Oh, if I'm beating this online, what can I beat live?" And then like there'll be people that respond like, "Dude, if you're beating like ACR 10 and like you're good enough to beat like like

2550 live like people will say like [ __ ] like that, which is like maybe like technically like speaking like you have a better understanding of some of the players in the game. What people like grossly

the game. What people like grossly underestimate is the ability to like execute with like deep stacks live and like the amount of difference there is between playing a hundred big blinds

like online for like $200 and then you're like 500 big blinds deep at 25.

Do you know what I mean? And like

basically pay playing for like 10 buyins of your online stake in like one hand.

Um and I struggled like with the like I guess like with the money like side of things like making good decisions when I was like super deep. So I like wouldn't play 510 and stuff because like one I was like probably I was just like under

rolled to be playing that. Not that like you really need a bankroll if you can just like go live with your parents and they can like financially support you like and feed you and stuff. You know

what I mean? Um and you know have like risk of ruin with like like with kids and stuff like that which I didn't have.

Um but I like didn't really want to like dust my role or something like that at that point. Like I just enjoyed playing.

that point. Like I just enjoyed playing.

Um so yeah I would just like play 25.

buying for like 1K, which felt like a lot to me at the time. And then if I lost a 4K pot, I want to like literally kill myself. So I was like, I'm not

kill myself. So I was like, I'm not ready to be playing like like 7k pots at 5,000.

Hold on. At 500 ml, you were multi-tabling right?

Yeah. I play like four tables usually.

Yeah. So you could just you could just get stacked on three tables and Yeah. Just as quick. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Just as quick. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For for sure. For

sure. Like I I had moved up to 500 NL by the end of my senior year. Do you mean?

But I wouldn't say I was like super established at that stake. Like I think I I'd like played a lot of hands at 200 and then I'd like recently moved up to 500 and probably had like I 30k hands at

it or something like that, you know what I mean? I was probably on a heater at

I mean? I was probably on a heater at the time. I think I I remember I was

the time. I think I I remember I was running like very well towards the end of my senior year um online. And I also had moved up to 510 live at the time.

Like I'd shot taken it a few times like live. Like

live. Like how did that first shot take go or the first couple shot takes at 510 go?

I think it went pretty badly. I was like a [ __ ] huge station, too. That's the

thing. Like for playing online. Like

every everybody who comes from online is just a massive station.

Yeah. I I was like I was like a payoff monkey. Like if like And also like I

monkey. Like if like And also like I would not be calibrated for the amount of big blinds we were playing with like the difference. Yeah. Like he jammed

the difference. Yeah. Like he jammed like I don't know. I have a bluff catcher. Like I should probably just

catcher. Like I should probably just call this one usually. So yeah, I remember I got dusted like my first few times playing um 510 but I was on like a absolute Absolutely.

Weird noise coming from my house right now. Um, kind of sketchy. Um, yeah.

now. Um, kind of sketchy. Um, yeah.

You got a wombat in there.

I don't know what I don't know what that is.

It sounded like a wombat.

My It's Austin, so I don't know. It

could be.

Yeah, they do have wombats in Austin.

Yeah. I mean, I'm hoping it's not. I'm

more so worried about getting robbed right now. Go play on stream later.

right now. Go play on stream later.

[laughter and gasps] Um but yeah, so sorry, senior year, then I

graduated, had a job in San Jose. Um I I offer in California for a product manager for a tech company. Um

how long did you do that?

Five months.

You were a great hire.

Yeah, fantastic. I was also probably on Discord for half the day and then would clock out early to go play play live poker online or study. So I was really I

was really an asset to the team there.

Okay. So San Jose, is that how you started getting into some bigger games, better games in the Bay Area?

Yep. Exactly. So,

I I moved to San Jose and then I discovered this casino. Like discovered

I I'd done an internship there that summer before, so I already knew about this casino where I was playing like 25 when I had time, but it was called Bay 101. Um, and

101. Um, and Oh, yeah. Bay 101 is like a No one's

Oh, yeah. Bay 101 is like a No one's ever heard of Bay 101.

Yeah. It's like very off like it like the the San Jose poker scene is like pretty like like small community cuz there's just like not that many games like available I would say at like like the mid to high stakes but like there's

like 40 pros like in the pool you know what I mean that kind of bounce around all these different casinos. Um so yeah that was where I discovered playing bigger

live like I had access to basically 1020 now um on like close to daily basis. Uh,

and yeah, that this is kind of where things like started to spiral for me and I started making like very questionable like bankroll/financial decisions.

What do you mean spiral? Talk to me because like you you went from It sounds like we didn't play much 510. You just

kind of jumped into 1020.

Yeah. So, I skipped from 25 to 1020 is essentially what happened.

Same. Okay. Yep. Same.

Yeah. I was like, "No, this game is this game is good because I want like five or 10k my first session." One second. Let

me close my door really quick cuz I think I'm out here somewhere else.

Okay. This uh this 1020 game, how big was the uh like how big did this game play and like how did it go while you were in San Jose?

Sorry, could you say one more time?

Yeah, the 1020 game. How big was the game? Like how deep were were people

game? Like how deep were were people sitting and like how did it go your first few months in San Jose?

Yeah, so I think the g the game was like a five it was a 5k cap game. All the

pros would sit with 5K. Um I would sit with two so I'd sit with 100 bigs. Um

Uh, you were one of those annoying guys.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, my my thing was people would be like, "Yo, can we put the $40 straddle straddle on?" I'd be like, "Yeah, yeah, I'll put it on if I double up." Like that was [laughter] I

double up." Like that was [laughter] I was like, "What people?"

Oh my god.

I was like, I love those guys.

Less than 100. Yeah, I was awful. Awful

for the game for sure. Um, but yeah, the first sessions went like really well.

Like I went on like a giga heater. Like

giga heater. Like honestly like I think I won like 20k which like pretend 20 like 5k deep, you know what I mean? that

can come and go in a session essentially. Um, but for me that was

essentially. Um, but for me that was like a ton of like a ton of money at the time. Um, so I was like I'm the goat

time. Um, so I was like I'm the goat after I those first few sessions. I was

like this I'm got to find a way to quit my job soon. Um, because my role I think was like getting to like 70 or 80k by this time um, from like online and live winnings and like I also

have the job now which I was getting paid 120k a year which is great great job. Good.

job. Good.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I was like, I'm good to like start to start like firing this game more frequently. And honestly, I was like I just had an income. I had

like, you know, some life stuff set aside. Like I I could have fired it if I

aside. Like I I could have fired it if I wanted to. But people really

wanted to. But people really underestimate, man, like how hard it is to get used to losing five figures in in a session. Do you know what I mean? And

a session. Do you know what I mean? And

that's basically what happened. And like

I had my first like minus 10k day, then like a minus 5k day, then like another minus 5k day, and then like soon enough that 20 that I, you know, kind of spun up in the beginning playing there was

like gone. And I was like, this sucks.

like gone. And I was like, this sucks.

I'm like not as good as I thought I was.

I'm going to take a break from live poker for like a while now. It kind of just like sent me down this like path of I didn't it I don't know. It just like really hurt to lose 20k. I' never lost 20k before. Um, so I was like, "All

20k before. Um, so I was like, "All right, I'm going to take time off and like get better." Uh, cuz I kind of realized I was like also just like a bit of a fish at like deep stack poker, too.

I remember like one time like I got in queens for like 250 big blinds in like the most absurd spot. Like the most absurd spot and I was like genuinely baffled that the guy had aces. Like I

was like what a [ __ ] cooler. Like I

just got like kind like I got like five bet like six bet jammed like aces on me and I was like oh my god I have queens.

I can't I can't fold. So I didn't realize I was like be fair to you like the guy had the guy had aces in that spot.

Sorry.

He had like six bet jammed or you six bet jammed.

No, I think it went like he like limped under the gun. [laughter]

And then like I like it went like Io I three bet and then like he jammed. Do

you know what I mean? And then like I was like got it. Got it. Like snapped

his dick off probably and then like he just had the blades like Yeah. I mean to be fair to you in that

Yeah. I mean to be fair to you in that spot to give yourself some credit like sometimes he also has aces.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like he could have he he could have the other combo of it.

So it was good to see one of the two. I

was like I put you on that. I actually

put you on that.

Yeah. Yeah. He could I mean he could have had red aces as well. So there's

Oh, that's the combo you have. Okay.

Sick. Nice.

Yeah. Okay. So I'm curious because like you talk about like, hey, I was so bad for the game. Like I didn't know first like I didn't know what was going on.

Then I was like the hund big blind guy.

Like I didn't want the straddle on. How

did you go from this to being a guy who's like invited to good games?

Yeah. So

this is going to be a funny answer to that because I already did a bunch of stuff that doesn't make me sound good for the game after this, but like I joined an online CFP for like a year.

Um, I established myself at 500 NL and I was like shotting 2K NL by the end of like that year and I was like or by the end of it wasn't the year that I was in it. It was like five months later type

it. It was like five months later type of thing. Um, it was like kind of right

of thing. Um, it was like kind of right when I got my job. I joined this online CFP while I was playing 1020 if that makes sense. It was called Poker with

makes sense. It was called Poker with Risk. Um, and I ended up kind of

Risk. Um, and I ended up kind of starting to play 2K&NL or whatever uh by the end of that. So, I felt like I'd gotten a lot better at poker, like theoretically and like fundamentally.

Um, and then I decided to go start playing like live 1020 again at the end of this.

And I went on like another like type of heater. I think I went like one like 60k

heater. I think I went like one like 60k or something. And then I decided to quit

or something. And then I decided to quit my job. Um, because I think my bankroll

my job. Um, because I think my bankroll hit like 100k basically. And I was like, I'm good. For some reason, that

I'm good. For some reason, that arbitrary number in my head to me was like, yeah, I'm good for this. Now, I

got the six figure mark. Um

yeah, and then from there I started just playing live poker a lot more cuz I was like this is much softer than online.

Like I think my win rate can be like pretty high here and I want to be like responsible like playing uh like in games that I think are are like really good when I quit my job. And then um so

I got more like accustomed to like the live poker scene and like a lot of the guys that I played with were kind of like yo you got to do like this for like you I mean like don't say no to like straddling if you can and I kind of just

got more used to like the live poker dynamics from spending like many hours at the table there. But like [ __ ] hit the fan very quickly after I quit my

job. Um I went on like a

job. Um I went on like a 40k downer maybe like right after I quit. Was that at 1020?

quit. Was that at 1020?

Yeah. Yeah, it was at 1020.

I mean, that's like that's like a very completely reasonable downswing at 1020.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's definitely reasonable, but like it felt like a ton of money at the time and it was my biggest downswing ever.

How did you roll was 120k when I quit when I quit my job? Um

I'm curious like the difference between like the feeling when you went on a 60k upswing versus a 40k downswing. What was

the difference in those? Like which one was was the 60k upswing did it feel half as good as the 40k downswing felt bad?

Dude, not even close. Like not even like like winning is so like fleeting in poker and like down swings like like eat your soul. Like you just like feel like the

soul. Like you just like feel like the big like the biggest piece of [ __ ] like in the world. I remember I saw a tweet that someone was like poker is like the best game in the world if you want to like oscillate from feeling like king of

the world for 20 seconds to then feeling like the greatest piece of [ __ ] ever for three months. Like it's like [laughter]

three months. Like it's like [laughter] kind of how it goes. Um, but yeah, I felt terrible and my lease was running on like expiring on my apartment. So, I

decided to move home with my parents because I was like, I just dusted like a decent chunk of my role and now I'm like don't know if I can afford like it doesn't make sense to have rent and stuff like when I'm at this stage of

like trying to make poker work. So, I

moved home with my parents and that this is when I kind of like had to like figure things out because I got I got like kind of depressed honestly. Like I was just like living at

honestly. Like I was just like living at home.

I I I like said I was like a professional poker player, but like realistically my schedule was super chaotic. I wasn't taking the game like

chaotic. I wasn't taking the game like very seriously at this point in terms of like having a routine and studying, which I don't think is actually 100% necessary for a pro, but I felt like at the time it was like very necessary. Um,

so I felt really bad about myself and I went to my high school reunion and like I remember I was like telling I like [ __ ] blacked out at my high school reunion, too. It's like such a washed up

reunion, too. It's like such a washed up thing to do. And then I was like also telling people I was a poker pro but living with my parents. And like I remember I like woke up like the next day or a couple days later I was like geez man I really got to like figure out

my [ __ ] and I was like there's no one like documenting their content journey about what it's like to try and become a professional poker player in 2026 and like climb or 2025 or 2024 whatever time

period this was. Um, I think it was 24.

Like what like what it's like to try and, you know, make it in poker at this time as like a young a young guy like playing public games and that kind of thing and actually taking like poker seriously and trying to be a winning player who can like live like

supplement, you know, like live like fully off of just poker winnings. Like

there weren't many content creators doing that. So I was like, I'm going to

doing that. So I was like, I'm going to start trying to document this journey on Instagram was the first platform I was on. Um, and I was [ __ ] terrible at

on. Um, and I was [ __ ] terrible at it, but I bought like a content creation course and learned how to edit and stuff and started doing that on the side while I was like playing online again and playing live in Boston. Um, I like

slowly you bought a content creation course.

Wait, can we can we dive into that for a second? Yeah, like I just b I bought

second? Yeah, like I just b I bought this course online that was like about like personal branding and like how to edit and like how to like it talk like all the basics of like creating like captivating short form content

essentially like you know hooks, retention, types of like angles and shots to take and stuff like that. And I just like wrote a ton of notes and I remember like I wrote this document like about like my

ideal viewer kind of wrote out like everything about them. Basically my

ideal viewer to me was like me two years ago or something like that. Like that's

who I was trying to appeal to. Um,

that's also not like original thinking for me. This was in the course or

for me. This was in the course or whatever. Um, so I wrote all that stuff

whatever. Um, so I wrote all that stuff and like I basically like had like that was I I didn't have any plans for this.

I was like, "Oh, it'd be so cool if I had like 10,000 followers in a few years was kind of my thinking. Do you know what I mean?" And I didn't have any plans of like want to do this and like monetize it and then like have it change my life. Do you know what I mean? I was

my life. Do you know what I mean? I was

like, I'm just going to make videos I think are cool and appeal to these people and hopefully eventually it like resonates and I'll have a small following. Maybe one day I can start

following. Maybe one day I can start like coaching people or something from it. Do you know what I mean? Um,

it. Do you know what I mean? Um,

but yeah, I think fast forward like a few months and I saved up more money and I decided to go back to Bay 101 basically to like try and make like the

shot stick again. Um,

and I went on the sickest heater of like all time. Like I'm not even kidding.

all time. Like I'm not even kidding.

Like it was just insane. I would just show up to the casino every single day and win like 10k, 15k. Like I I won 120k in a month playing 1020. Like it was like absurd. Like and I just lived at the

absurd. Like and I just lived at the casino for it was also in like two and a half weeks that I did this. So like I basically played 200 hours in like two weeks and like I was just like it was just solar. Like it was just disgusting.

just solar. Like it was just disgusting.

And everyone like hated me like they were like this kid just [ __ ] shows up and like Spike's the biggest heater of all time. Um, but like after that month

all time. Um, but like after that month is kind of like, you know, when things like went a little bit off to the races, I would say, because my Instagram grew like crazy during that month. Um,

because I was like posting all about it, like this huge heater. I was posting videos almost every single day. I think

[clears throat] I'd grown to like 20K at that time, 30K. Like my Instagram grew very quickly in the beginning because I think the content kind of like what did fill the niche that I was talking about and I was like being very thoughtful

about how I was creating it. Um, and

then from there basically 1020 stuck like the shot just stuck and I never had to like move back down or or anything after that. And I got like much much

after that. And I got like much much better at poker over this time too of like moving home. Got like way more used to swings and stuff like that. um spent

like a lot of spent a lot of time studying deep stack pre flop too which I think is very underrated thing for live poker players to do because people really underestimate like

I the difference between 100s and 250 is just like abs and like eight max and six max or n max or whatever. There's just

like so many differences that people I think like I can like freestyle this.

It's like no you probably have no idea what's going on in some of these spots.

So, like I spent a lot of time like working on that and just like taking like being a live poker pro more seriously I would say. Um, and yeah, my game just like significantly improved o

over that over that year as well. And I

think I did like uh I'm like comfortable talking about this. I did like Hungry Horse 2 which I think helped a lot with like understanding some live poker stuff that I was missing out on um as well. So

like just my game like changed a lot over that time period. Um, and yeah, b I basically had like a very good year at 1020 for the rest of the year. I think I

won almost 200k playing 1020 and like not that many hours. And then I would just lose a decent amount shot taking essentially for the rest of the year because I now was able to get into games

because of my content presence and I just become better for the game. Like

people underestimate like what being or overestimate what being good for the game means as well. I think it means like [ __ ] being this guy who like screams laughing at everyone's jokes is like hammered and like you know just

like giving like infinite action and stuff like that. Like most of what like in my opinion being good for the game is like genuinely taking interest in the conversations around you. Do you know

what I mean? Not being like annoying and like poor etiquette. Do you know what I mean? And if to be honest if you're

mean? And if to be honest if you're playing like like poker like to try and win the most money like you're fun to play against.

Like you're going to be putting like a lot of chips in the middle. like you're

going to be getting involved very frequently. Um like people think like

frequently. Um like people think like it's pretty common for like some people to like think you're like a bit of like a whale slash like super agard like if you're in my opinion if you're playing

like to try and win the most. Um so like you should kind of by default be somewhat fun for the game in terms of your play style. So yeah like I I just I think the content thing was the main thing that opened the door for me and then just not being a completely

insufferable piece of [ __ ] at the table.

Like I won't even say I mean like bro I mean honestly like if I'm stuck like 25k like I'm [ __ ] m like I'm not gonna lie like I'm not the most fun to be around when I'm like that. I wish I was better about it but like I am the guy who like when they're stuck is like kind

of quiet and then when I'm up I'm like [ __ ] chatty Kathy at the table. Like

I I do know I do that. Um so not like the best person to be around. But yeah,

basically content just opened the doors for me. Um the end of that year I went

for me. Um the end of that year I went on like a huge downer. like end of 2025 started like the biggest downer of my my career essentially like

I won a bunch and then I lost like a lot of it back basically it's like shotting high stakes. Um I did sell action so

high stakes. Um I did sell action so like obviously it mitigated it but it still feels horrible like just like losing those amounts of money. like I

ended up basically going like an 120k downer at the end of last year um to the beginning of this year and I felt like really terrible about my myself and and

[snorts] things. So I just kind of was

[snorts] things. So I just kind of was like all right my entire life is poker right now. My friends are all living on

right now. My friends are all living on the east coast. I'm going to make a lifestyle change because I don't want my whole life to be poker and like to wake up and I'm like 35 and single and just like have like some money from poker.

But like I've just like kind of spent my whole life in a casino. So I decided [clears throat] to move to New Jersey to play online poker um and live poker like simultaneously essentially because I I

like the I really do enjoy playing online because I like the mental side of it and it's nice to be able to play from your apartment sometimes. I'm not going to lie. Like I don't want to go to the

to lie. Like I don't want to go to the casino that often. So I I'd made that change at the beginning of this year and I started like this coaching group called like T7 that I joined and we I

studied a lot with them and took a while to get online to work and fast forward to like July I was I've made like I'd won like 215K across like

live and online in like the first seven months of the year. So things have gone very well but at the start of the year it was [ __ ] terrible. Like I was just on this like mega downer. I basically

went on like a 350k up swing though this year which has been [ __ ] great obvious.

That's fun.

Yeah.

Okay. I have a few I have a few questions. I I want to come back to like

questions. I I want to come back to like content and and talking about selling action and online as well. But like

first like having to move back in with your parents moving across the country.

I feel like that's where a lot of people would give up and just do something else. like what what was it that like

else. like what what was it that like what did you what were you thinking and what allowed you to like still be successful now? Because a lot of people

successful now? Because a lot of people would hit that obstacle and they'd be like, "Yeah, I'm [ __ ] done with poker." And instead you were like, "You

poker." And instead you were like, "You came out the other end better."

Yeah. I mean, I'd love to like pat myself on the back and say like, "Oh, I'm like this really like I have like so much grit and stuff like that, but like realistically there are a few things I think that will ultimately like very

much help you stick it in poker um that people don't like to talk about." And

like one of them is like having a good like familyup support system both financially and like emotionally, which I had both of those. Like I've been pretty transparent about this, but I come from like a fairly like wealthy family. Not like my parents aren't like

family. Not like my parents aren't like [ __ ] billionaires. We don't have like boats and [ __ ] but they paid for my college. Do you know what I mean? which

college. Do you know what I mean? which

is like very expensive. And they've

always been able to be like, "Yeah, if you ever need to come home and live with us, like you can live with us." You know what I mean? Which just like logistically like helps you save in so many ways, man. Like having to pay rent while you're trying to move up in stakes

and like have all these expenses. Like

it's like a dream killer. Like it just kills it for a lot of people because it makes it like financially so it's not feasible for most people. So like I've talked to my friends about this who are also pros that come from a similar background to me. Being able to live with your parents and be able to be

financially supported is like to me it's like a basically a prerequisite if you want to make it in poker these days.

Like do not get into poker if you have like no money. Like it's just it's just like so [ __ ] impossible, man. It's

like insanely hard. Like get a job, save up, find something else to do. Like

poker is not the way in my opinion for someone coming from that like background. That's not to like be like

background. That's not to like be like snarky. It's just like it's just so much

snarky. It's just like it's just so much harder. It's like basically impossible

harder. It's like basically impossible in my opinion. Um like I've been so lucky in that way. So, like that helped like crazy because I didn't have this like crazy financial pressure building on me. And the other thing was like I

on me. And the other thing was like I low-key did like try and get out of poker for a second. Like I had a job interview with GTO Wizard like at one point. [laughter]

point. [laughter] What kind of job? What were you interviewing for?

Like product management like what I was doing before. But like I didn't get the

doing before. But like I didn't get the job which was like a huge blessing in disguise because I probably would have taken it and that's like when I started doing content but like I sneaky did try to quit and I thought about quitting like a bunch of times. Do you know what

I mean? Um, I think people who say like,

I mean? Um, I think people who say like, "I've never thought about quitting poker." I'm like, "You're a liar." Like,

poker." I'm like, "You're a liar." Like,

there's no way that's true. Like 100%

you have thought about quitting poker.

Um, but I was also just like obsessed with the game. Like I would just think about it like all the time, which I like if you want to get good at poker or like get to like a reasonable stake. You just

have to like be super obsessed with it and like always be thinking about the game. So like even when poker was like

game. So like even when poker was like going horribly, if like someone like sent me an interesting hand or something, like I would always be like intrigued by it still. Do you know what I mean? I like just kind of never lost

I mean? I like just kind of never lost like that bug for it and I still have it. So that definitely helped. But it

it. So that definitely helped. But it

wasn't like a grit thing. It was more of just like a I just love this like this game a lot and I want to keep doing and yeah, it feels like [ __ ] terrible right now, but I also think I can like get out of it. Like

there's been times where I've been so deep in a downswing that I'm like I don't see like the light at the end of the tunnel. Like right now I'm like I'm

the tunnel. Like right now I'm like I'm like I I'm like $120,000. How am I ever going to make this back? Like how am I going to do it? And then you kind of just start like stacking days again and

and you get out of it. And I think at that point I proved to myself like kind of once that I could get out of like a 60k downer. And I was like I was like if I can prove myself that I can get out of this 120k downer like I think

I can make it like I think nothing will like ever hold me down in poker again.

Which is probably delusional. Like if I ever go on a 500k downer I'm sure I'm going to feel the same way again. But

like um I think I was like I want to see if I can get out of out of this downswing as well. Like I do think I'm good enough and like I do think I can do this. So like wasn't really great. It

this. So like wasn't really great. It

was more just like I I believed in myself and I had luckily like the financial and emotional support system to like make it possible. um was like how I ended up getting through that. And

also like the content and stuff was starting to like catch on. So I was like doesn't make sense to not see this through if that makes sense. I want to see what I can do with the content. I

want to see what I can do with the poker. Um and like make this work. And

poker. Um and like make this work. And

also once you have like content it's like people are like watching you and it's like if you quit like kind of [ __ ] like doing this in front of everyone like you just threw the towel really man. So I think that helped. I think you

man. So I think that helped. I think you have to give yourself some credit here though in that like yeah maybe you had this like structural advantage where like you could you could you knew you could move back in with your parents and

you didn't have to pay rent but I think 95% of people probably in that spot would probably just quit.

Yeah. I don't know. I that that's hard for me to say. I mean like also like I just like didn't really have that much of another option. Like I just had to go get like you know what I mean?

Like I just like I don't have a job.

Like I got to do something. So, I I think that that also um that definitely helped.

What kind of doors has content opened for you? I know. I mean, you're you're

for you? I know. I mean, you're you're playing on the lodge today, right?

Yeah, I'm playing on the lodge 2550 later. I mean, infinite doors, man.

later. I mean, infinite doors, man.

Like, I the amount of people I've told like you should do content.

It's got to be like 50 at this point.

Not a single person has done it. Like,

not a single everyone's like, I'm going to do it. Like, I'm going to do it. I'm

going to post a video today. And it's

extremely hard to start. Like the

starting is one of the hardest parts I would say. I think there's like a couple

would say. I think there's like a couple parts that are really really hard and I'm sure there's going to be more down the line. Um but like the starting is

the line. Um but like the starting is very hard because there's a ton of like you look like you feel like you look like a jackass and you kind of do like it's kind of goofy when you first start.

Like you're going to be terrible at it.

Um your friends are all going to send it to each other. You're going to be getting clowned behind your back. And

I'm like a very selfconscious person um in terms of like I care a lot about how people perceive me and stuff like that.

Especially I've gotten way better about it, but when I first started creating content, like I was like listening to like Alex Formoszi and like Marcus Aurelius like psych myself up to like be able to do this. You know what I mean? I

was like, you're gonna [ __ ] die anyway, man. Like about posting your

anyway, man. Like about posting your real, you know what I mean? Like it's so ridiculous in hindsight. But I was like, "Yeah, the beginning posts were for sure the hardest because they were terrible and I was like, people are probably

making fun of you and I really care about people's opinion of me." But like ultimately, I want to be successful more than I care about what I'm perceived as.

Essentially, the thing you have like, do you want the outcome more than you care about people's perception of you? If the

answer is yes, then like go for it. If

you really just care too much about what people think, it doesn't seem that worth it for you. Content's probably not the way to be honest uh for you to do it because people are gonna [ __ ] on you.

Even if you're the best content creator in the world and the most likable person in the world, like there's going to be some guy who just [ __ ] hates you for some reason. So like um yeah, sorry I

some reason. So like um yeah, sorry I kind of went on a tangent there, but I'm not sure.

What advice would you have like besides like making content, what specific advice would you have for somebody who was in your shoes five years ago?

[snorts] I would say if your goal is to make the most money, don't play poker. Like like

like that that like I wouldn't get into poker for money or like someone asked a question about like freedom or like the freedom fallacy with poker is like the craziest thing ever. Like it's worse

than a nineto-ive like way worse than a 9 to5. Like you got to play like [ __ ]

9 to5. Like you got to play like [ __ ] hours when all your friends are doing stuff if you want to make the most money. And then like

money. And then like you can't like leave if if the game is sick. And also like you have to like

sick. And also like you have to like kind of be constantly going back and forth and trying to find the best games if you want to make a lot of money. And

that just like requires moving and stuff like that. Um but the advice I would

like that. Um but the advice I would give is like actually get good at poker first off. Like people like to be like

first off. Like people like to be like lazy and just like want to play like getting good at there's no substitute for getting good. like my friends and I will talk about it sometimes when it's like it's like like the anything

but like get good at poker. It's like

like the like the approach like people will take and I'm not even saying like I'm like good or like elite or anything compared to a lot of people I'm like a very bad player. Um but

dude get to a point where you're winning in these games comfortably and you understand like where your edge is coming from. Like there's you can't be a

coming from. Like there's you can't be a pro without doing that. Like I don't know what else to say. Like you just have to like study and like get decent at the game. Like you're not 2026.

You're not going to feel player your way to [ __ ] high stakes. Like it's just not going to happen, man. Like you just got to be like learning from people better than you.

How how often do you hear that from guys who just like who just, you know, just aren't willing to put in the work to like actually be good at poker and they tell you I'm

gonna I'm gonna be pro. Like I'm going to play full-time. Like like I mean the DMs I get are just insane. Like I like they're just so ridiculous that it's like not even worth talking about. But

like it's like um you hear from guys who like have been in the game for a while where they're just like at this point where they just like I don't know they just like think they have like some inherent edge or or

something like that. Like I don't really know where this like thought comes from that like you just you're just like better than other people like without like kind of having a reason to necessarily believe it. I I don't know.

I think people have that like gen it's generally going to benefit you to like underestimate your ability than overestimate it like throughout my career. I think that's been like great

career. I think that's been like great for me. I think it's like I'm a more

for me. I think it's like I'm a more self-deprecating person which has served me like poorly in some ways and very well in other ways in terms of like constantly seeking out ways to improve myself like in poker and outside of

poker and just like a lot of things like that. Like this having a huge ego in

that. Like this having a huge ego in poker is really not going to serve you well like in almost any way. I would say like keep the ego outside of poker like self-belief that kind of thing is great but in terms of your poker ability like

thinking you're the goat like doesn't really do much for you honestly.

Yeah. I would say like for poker guys like study find a way to supplement your income outside of poker ideally. Um get

to a stake like 5 10 or 10 20 where you can make easily six figures a year. Uh

and then maybe you can consider going like full-time and also don't have kids or a family and be ready to like move anywhere in the country whenever like juice is happening. It's like I wouldn't

get into Boer if I had like a like a wife and kids. Like it's terrible idea if you want to do that full-time because you really got to be willing to just go wherever the games are good.

Raja has a question about content. He

says, "How do you get past the awkward middle in content creation? I have a few followers, but compared to a lot of creators, I basically have zero. How do

you find the motivation to keep posting?"

posting?" Yeah, so I would say like the thing with content is the same thing that people do in poker. Like I would be willing to bet

in poker. Like I would be willing to bet you probably this is not to diss you man but like [clears throat] haven't spent too much time like studying the craft.

There is something to be said about getting going to start just like start posting [ __ ] and that's fine but the slowest way to improve is improving by just doing. Like the best way to improve

just doing. Like the best way to improve is improving by doing and improving by learning at like the same time. And you

want to be like iterating constantly like on your your process and your craft. So, like what I would say is like

craft. So, like what I would say is like you're probably in the that weird awkward middle stage where you have a few followers that have like come from your friends and stuff like supporting you, but you're not creating content that's like thoughtful or good enough

for a stranger to want to follow you.

And that only comes from like learning more about like what makes good content.

And the other thing like the recommendation I would make is like don't the content is never about you.

Like no one actually gives a [ __ ] about you. They want to like the content is

you. They want to like the content is for them. Like what are you giving them?

for them. Like what are you giving them?

Like are you giving them like an insight into what their life could look like?

Always make it like viewer centric. It's

never about you. Like unless you're Cristiano Ronaldo, like no one cares.

Like you know what I mean? Like no one cares about you. Like they care about like how your content serves them. Um

and it can serve them through entertainment, making them laugh, like Hungry Horse teaching people stuff. Like

there's a million ways you can serve the viewer, but you have to figure out how you're serving them because if you're just serving yourself, no one's gonna no one's going to follow you. It's not like they don't they don't care enough about you know you as a person or only your

family and friends do and that's why you know only 100 people followed me in the beginning because I was just creating content for my friends and family essentially. [snorts]

essentially. [snorts] We're going to stay on content for one more and then we'll uh we'll we'll jump forward. What type of post would be a

forward. What type of post would be a good first post if I'm trying to get into poker content?

See this is another thing like this doesn't matter like just like [laughter] the first post isn't going to matter.

The first post is going to be dog [ __ ] So like a video of you saying declaring that you are going to start creating content and going to make it about poker would be perfectly fine. Just start

learning about content and start iterating like and set I would set big goals long term and then shortterm be okay with sucking and just like only

care shortterm about input. Um and like kind of you know posting a lot and learning a lot and then don't care about outcomes and then like longterm you can care a little bit more about outcomes would be kind of what I would say. But

first post doesn't matter at all.

First first 20 posts probably don't matter at all.

First hundred. I mean like you can like takes a while. Um I got lucky but like it's takes a long time.

And here's the crazy thing is like you know you've been doing this a while. I'm

curious if you agree like I would say even now if like something flops or doesn't go well who cares. No one is going to see that. Like if it flops or doesn't go well, no one's going to come

up to to to to me on the street tomorrow and be like, "Man, Mark, I saw you posted yesterday and I only got 6,000 views. What are you doing, man? You're

views. What are you doing, man? You're

falling off." Like, no one cares.

Dude, that's always what I tell my friends. I'm like, "Dude, even if I

friends. I'm like, "Dude, even if I think I'm getting [ __ ] on online, no one goes to bed thinking about me." You know what I mean? Like, it's like not a thing that they're not like, "Dude, really content, man. His reach is going down."

content, man. His reach is going down."

Like, like like no one no one's thinking about that. It's all in your own head.

about that. It's all in your own head.

Um, and like I don't know there there is also something to be said about like people like if you're doing something worth people talking about like you're doing something that's pushing yourself out of

your comfort zone and that's like usually a positive signal to me. You

know what I mean? Like as long as you're not like running through the streets naked and that's why people are talking about you. Like if they're talking about

about you. Like if they're talking about something you're like, you know, pursuing or whatever, like it's generally a good sign that you're doing something kind of out of the norm, which usually leads to like out of the norm outcomes, if that makes sense. Like you

can have these like more extreme outcomes because you're taking more extreme action um than most people. So

it's like generally a good thing I would say if people are like kind of [ __ ] on you or talking about you at least.

I'm curious like where do you see content taking you or and and like where do you want to be? Actually, let me show we have a question kind of related to this here. What do you think you will be

this here. What do you think you will be doing in life 5 to 10 years from now? Do

you think poker will be a career for you or part of a path that will lead to you doing many other things for a living?

Yeah, dude. I mean, I could see myself being in poker for a very long time or not a super long time. Um

Well, that is quite the hedge. Yeah. I

mean like if there was an opportunity that was insanely plus EV that came up for me that I was genuinely interested in, like I'm not just like married to like, oh, I need to do poker for this amount of time. Do you know what I mean? I'm more

time. Do you know what I mean? I'm more

just like poker fits my lif style perfectly. Well, not perfectly, but it

perfectly. Well, not perfectly, but it fits my lifestyle. Like, I'm young. I

can travel. I can do all the things I said I want to do. And it's still like the combination of content and like the business, like running businesses and like having to solve that side is like really intriguing to me. Plus, like

learning about poker and how to like marry those two is just like still super entertaining and interesting to me. But

if I got to a point where five years from now, I'm like, "This is not that fun for me." Like, and I just don't enjoy doing this on a day-to-day basis, and I didn't need the money that I was making from it, like I could see myself

um doing something else. I think a big reason also that people should get into content outside of poker is because poker as itself, like yes, there are some learnings from it that are transferable, but it's like not that many that I would say are transferable

to like becoming generally good at like a lot of things. like you get good at getting good at things, which is like a useful skill to have, but like content [clears throat] and like learning how to run a business and manage yourself and

like hire people if you need to is like more of a transferable skill. Um, so

yeah, that's just like another reason that I would recommend like kind of having interest or doing stuff outside of poker because if you ever need to get out of this game, like no one gives a [ __ ] if you know bun versus big blind

sim pretty well in the real world.

[laughter] What kind of skills like this is this is interesting. What kind of skills do you

interesting. What kind of skills do you think poker has given you that you think would apply to other stuff? Like what is poker making

other stuff? Like what is poker making you good at that applies broadly?

I think I'm I'm pretty good at thinking long term and not being fussed about short-term outcomes now. Um which has served me like really well. And like

I think about like I people are so lazy about getting coaching or trying to get good at things because like they think about ROI in the most immediate sense ever. Whereas like poker has taught me

ever. Whereas like poker has taught me to be like a much more long-term thinker and like think about what my win rate is long term and like not be fussed about like the day-to-day outcomes. So like

I'm very happy to start like investing in projects that I'm like I could see this paying off like two years from now like tenfold and I don't care how it goes for the next like six months. Like

I'm I'm not going to worry about it. And

that's same with like poker. Like

paying a lot of money for some form of coaching that I think is going to pay off like significantly over the long term can be like very hard to grasp like in like the immediate. But like I think you just kind of get better at that as a poker player like not sweating the

little things. And then like in

little things. And then like in day-to-day life it helps a lot too because I'm just like I don't know like just like you kind of realize like [ __ ] happens in poker. You know what I mean?

Like you just like [ __ ] that you cannot control at all happens. So, I think you kind of just get better at letting go of the things that are out of your control um as well and kind of just focusing on executing the best you can on like a

day-to-day basis and like letting whatever happens happens because that's like ultimately it's like all you you can do in poker and like for the most part all you can do like just like in life. Um, you know what I mean? It's

life. Um, you know what I mean? It's

like poker does like kind of is like a decent like metaphor for like just kind of letting things that you just like cannot like be bothered with like at work or like you have no control over just like you just got to let them go

because if you don't if you stop showing up you're not going to make any money.

It's same thing in poker. It's same

thing like with working a regular job.

How do you manage your mental state on announcement?

Yeah, like I I'm like horrible like at this stuff. Like people are like think

this stuff. Like people are like think like, okay, first off, like I I consider myself a professional poker player, but at this point, like I I I play like less volume than a full-time full-time pro because of like content and stuff like that. And I'm just

that. And I'm just How many hours a year are you playing right now?

I'll probably play like 200,000 hands online and like 700 hours live this year, which is like a decent amount, but like not what I would consider like full-time full-time volume. Um, but I am

playing like reasonably high stakes, but I think does change things a little bit.

I think that typically higher six players play less hours. But um yeah, like mental state on a down swing. Like

dude, I feel terrible. Like I don't know. Like I'll just like go out and

know. Like I'll just like go out and drink a ton sometimes with my friends if I like want to or like I'll I'll just like spiral out of control like just kind of lay down in bed for

like a few days. I think like the main thing is that like I end up showing up again. Um do you know what I mean? Where

again. Um do you know what I mean? Where

a lot of people like they stop showing up. I'll snap out of it after like two

up. I'll snap out of it after like two or three days and I always like make myself like go to the gym and I never just like let myself go completely for like weeks at a time. But I I think you have to like realize it's just like a

brutal game especially if you're trying to move up in stakes and like you kind of just got to accept that like you're going to be in uncharted territory and like waking up and like doing yoga and then like doing like 45 back flips or something is not going to make you feel

better. Like it's just a time thing.

better. Like it's just a time thing.

It's like breaking up with someone. Like

you just got to kind of give it some time and you'll start to feel better eventually. But there's like no like

eventually. But there's like no like magic silver bullet. And I think anyone who tries to tell you that they have a routine that they stick to every day and like they never have like broken it and that they have this like perfect way of getting out of like a downswing and always being like mentally clear is just

lying to you. Maybe that's just me projecting, but like I just do not believe it when people tell me that [ __ ] And I've talked to like tons of high stakes online and live guys and they'll like [ __ ] punch their desk, you know what I mean? Like scream at the

monitor, be yelling things. Like people

are like like emotions are emotions and they run high in poker for sure, especially when you're having frustrating results. So, like I would

frustrating results. So, like I would just give yourself some grace and then like find a way to show up again is kind of how I continue to get out of them.

Do you think you've gotten better at managing your emotions on a downswing or I mean does it hurt less? Does it hurt more? Does it hurt the same?

more? Does it hurt the same?

I'm like in a financially better position. So, I think it's hard to

position. So, I think it's hard to answer that question like completely objectively, but like it's a callous is kind of what I would say. So, like you slowly get better at handling X- size

losses. Do you know what I So like like

losses. Do you know what I So like like at this point like 10k wins or losses on a day like don't I don't feel it at all.

Like it's just like another day 20k slightly irritated. 30k plus like I'm

slightly irritated. 30k plus like I'm [ __ ] not having it that day. You know

what I mean? Like that is like very irritating. Then like like 50k I'm like

irritating. Then like like 50k I'm like eyeing top of like I'm like eyeing a highway barrier. You know what I mean?

highway barrier. You know what I mean?

Like I'm like this is this is bad. I do

not like how I feel right now. Um

but yeah, I mean I I don't really tilt that hard like in game. I would say though, that's the thing like I don't really like like it's very very rare.

It's like maybe like one or two sessions like a year where I'm like I just like made an emotional decision at the table and I'll usually like recognize it and quit. I think that's like the most

quit. I think that's like the most important part and you cannot give yourself grace on that because that's extremely expensive and just like irresponsible if that makes sense to be like allowing uh like money frustration

to affect your like immediate decision- making at the table and be aware of it.

How do you not let tilt come into play?

Like say you're stuck 30k, like how do you continue to make good decisions in the moment?

Well, I'll quit if like I feel like like sometimes I'm like I can't make a good decision right now and I'll quit. Um and

I'll also think about what my win rate is at the table. Like if if I'm only winning say like seven big blinds an hour at the table or something that I'm

at and I'm down 30k.

Yeah. I mean, like, do I need to sit there? Like, not really. Um, it's like

there? Like, not really. Um, it's like like a average to below average game maybe. Like, I don't really need to be

maybe. Like, I don't really need to be there. And like, I'm just trying to get

there. And like, I'm just trying to get unstuck essentially at that point. If I

feel terrible and I feel miserable, why stay? I'm just like literally trying to

stay? I'm just like literally trying to get unstuck. And it's like the stupidest

get unstuck. And it's like the stupidest thing ever because just like you're just being delusional essentially. Like I think like think

essentially. Like I think like think asking yourself what your hourly is like pretty frequently is like a good way to ground yourself in the game because one you'll like think about like a lot of things that people neglect like position

at the table um like where your edge is coming from that kind of thing and then you'll also start thinking more about like is this actually worth my time to be sitting in and like worth my mental

energy. Uh, so yeah, I think I'll just

energy. Uh, so yeah, I think I'll just ask myself like those kind of questions and then I'll leave. If except if I can't answer that honestly, then I know I'm tilting my dick off and I need to leave. You know what I mean?

leave. You know what I mean?

So, you're mostly playing like stream games and higher stakes games right now at this point. Like, are you are you still playing public games or mostly just online and stream games?

I play public online mostly. Um, I've

been playing I'll play up to like I've been playing up to like 5k this year online. I played like couple hands of

online. I played like couple hands of 10k which was fun. And then I'll play 1020 live for content um in the Bay Area. I wouldn't say just like for

Area. I wouldn't say just like for content. Like I really do enjoy just

content. Like I really do enjoy just like playing public games and like grinding. Like I don't actually like

grinding. Like I don't actually like enjoy having to like entertain and stuff like this like at the table that much. I

do like just being able to like focus and try and play well. Um and then I'll play like high stakes live whenever I get the opportunity to. I'll go like fly like wherever to go play. Like I just flew to Austin for the last two days and

I played 2550 last night and I'm going to play 2550 like on stream today. Um

and that'll be super fun. Uh but yeah, mo mostly playing like 1020 plus I would say, but online I'll play 500 NL to 5K NL.

Okay. Tell me if this like I I don't know, maybe I'm just a psychopath, but when when I was still playing in public games frequently, like there just aren't

that many like 1020 1020 games, right?

And so in LA, maybe there's, you know, two or three games spread out across three casinos where it's like 10, 20, 40 publicly.

And so if I was in this game, even if the game was terrible, like if there was two new rags who showed up, I wouldn't leave. I would just sit and

I'm going to make it as miserable as possible and let them know that this game is horrible because I'm coming back tomorrow and this is my [ __ ] game and like they're not going to come back here because they're going to have a terrible

experience. I don't maybe I'm

experience. I don't maybe I'm delusional, but like have you done that same type of thing or are you just like are you better than me where you're just like I'm leaving. I'm not this isn't worth my

I'm leaving. I'm not this isn't worth my time right now.

Oh no no no. If a game is dog [ __ ] I'll leave. Like if I show up in the games

leave. Like if I show up in the games all rags, I it depends on my it depends on the day and if I'm like I want to play till like six o'clock so I can like have a seat the whole night. Do you know what I mean? Like that's kind of the

reason I'll stay in that kind of situation. Um

situation. Um I'll It's pretty funny that you say that though because like when new rags show up it's it's like we'll like just like be super aids at the table if it's like only regs just like talk about like

really cringe stuff or like you know what I mean? Just like make it seem like the game is like terrible all the time.

I remember one guy showed up once. He's

like, "So, when's this game get good?"

We're like, "Bro, what the [ __ ] are you like, what are you even asking right now?" Like, it's so absurd. Um,

now?" Like, it's so absurd. Um,

this game's amaz This is like, what are you talking about? This is the best it's been in three weeks.

Like, did you see that? I was like, did you see that guy? He just he just 3xed.

He's 3x from under the gun. Like,

[laughter] um, but we'll uh Yeah, I I the game selection has been a huge improvement for me this year. Like, I'm just like very picky about like games I'll play.

I'm pretty sensitive to things like rake and seat at the table. I mean, that's pretty aids live. Like, I would not recommend being fussy about your seat at the table live, but online it's like a kind of doggy dog more world. So, like

you you can be more picky about that stuff. Um, but yeah, just like I I am

stuff. Um, but yeah, just like I I am quite sensitive to like the games I I sit in usually and live you have to be less picky about that like you're saying. Like you kind of just do have to

saying. Like you kind of just do have to sit there and like play a shitty lineup sometimes. Um, and that's fine. It's

sometimes. Um, and that's fine. It's

like part of your win rate or whatever and like part of like your whatever your yearly outcome is going to be. I think

you just have to be honest with yourself about what you're winning or losing at the table like in a in like a given period of time. Um like if I'm playing against all rights I just assume I'm losing like in the game. I think it's just like a better default state to be

thinking in um than like gra big blind edge versus that guy losing sight of that guy. Like in reality you're never

that guy. Like in reality you're never going to play enough hands with them to like realize your actual expected outcome. So like you're just gambling.

outcome. So like you're just gambling.

That's kind of how I think of it. Some

days I'm just like I'm down to gamble today. You know what I mean? I'm down to

today. You know what I mean? I'm down to like swing like 15k and just like potentially be like slightly losing in this game. But maybe I'll win 20 and

this game. But maybe I'll win 20 and then feel like a god. So like you know what I mean? Like it's fine. You just

got to be slightly honest with yourself about it.

Yeah. You have you have good self-awareness. I could have used a

self-awareness. I could have used a little more of that when I was uh [laughter] I was playing 1500 hours a year. You

ever kissed anybody at the table?

I've been kissed at the table.

Oh, tell me about that.

It's happened a lot of times. People

will just like lean over and especially like if you're just like you seem like a nice young friendly guy, people just give you like a kiss on the cheek like jokingly when they're like [ __ ] up.

Maybe that's just a me thing. I don't

know.

How often does that is this like a frequent thing that happens for you?

Say once every few months. Yeah. I get

someone will just like kiss me on the cheek or something.

What was the last time this happened?

You remember?

Probably three months ago.

Who was it?

Oh, I can't I can't expose him like that.

was this somebody like you knew like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's never

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's never happened with complete strangers. It's

usually like a like a joking uh joking like it's more common like like Rex will do this kind of thing where they're like they get like a little like two-handed at the table and they're just like, you know what I mean? Like like people give

you the back rub too, like every once in a while at the table. Like live poker is a lot of camaraderie if you play with guys for enough hours. Like you kind of default know way too much about some of these people's lives who you know what I

mean? You see them for like 40 hours a

mean? You see them for like 40 hours a week. It's like they're almost like your

week. It's like they're almost like your like colleagues to a certain extent, but you never hang out with them outside the casino. So you have like some weird

casino. So you have like some weird insight into everyone's life.

So you think recreational players are more likely to give a smooch.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Because

Greg's got a show up the next day and everyone's like, "Yo, you [ __ ] smooched someone yesterday. That was

really cheek. It's never been like on the lips

cheek. It's never been like on the lips or anything."

or anything." No. Never lips. Never lips. That would

No. Never lips. Never lips. That would

be crazy. That [laughter]

would be crazy. Lips would be insane.

Okay. I mean I I yeah I mean you could say it's insane. I don't think it's that insane. Like

insane. Like have you have you ever spooked someone on lips at the table?

I like maybe three people.

Were you Did you know them all or No.

The first guy.

Oh wow. You really remember these are Well, I mean Yeah.

Did you remember me?

I mean there's there's only three. So

like generally like if you know if you slept with three girls in your life, you probably remember their names, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, like these are my three kisses at the poker table. I

didn't know this wasn't a common thing.

Uh, no, no, I do keep a scroll on me that I I I I log each I log each kiss and their their general build and height and things like that.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like that's the professional thing to [laughter] Yeah, I keep it next to my pre-f charts on the table. The first guy was like a legendary whale and like when he came in he would just play like 48 hour sessions

and like the game like I it was my first year playing full-time and we were 5'5 and the game went from 55 to 510 to 51020 to 1020. It was one of those things.

That's how you know it's sick. Yeah.

Yeah. And he was uh he said something like um if you call me I'm going to spray this dry shampoo on your head. And I said,

"If you spray the dry shampoo on my head, then I'm going to kiss you on the mouth." Well, I called and then that set

mouth." Well, I called and then that set off a chain of events. And that was that was the first one.

I mean, worth it. Worth I would say that's I

worth it. Worth I would say that's I would say that's worth it.

Yeah, that was my first. So, I don't know. We don't need to go into all the

know. We don't need to go into all the other stories, but like Yeah, I do remember my first uh my first kiss.

I mean, everyone remembers their first.

So, yeah. What was yours?

yeah. What was yours?

I actually don't remember my first.

Oh, okay. I was kind of just saying that to make you feel better about Thank you. I I do appreciate it. I

Thank you. I I do appreciate it. I

didn't know this wasn't like a common thing. I didn't know everybody just

thing. I didn't know everybody just didn't wasn't kissing at the poker table. I

table. I Yeah, though. You Yeah, you you really

Yeah, though. You Yeah, you you really assigned an interesting brand of humor to the the Hungry Horse. The Hungry

Horse brand. There's a lot of a lot of smooching, a lot of beans references.

It's like very It's very like Mark Core like things.

Yeah. It doesn't really make much sense.

Yeah. [laughter] Absolutely no sense.

Yeah. It's really confusing.

Yeah. Let's let's uh I guess we'll we'll veer off the smooching. Uh what's the biggest difference between low and high stakes? I want to make this a little

stakes? I want to make this a little more specific. Like I hear a lot of

more specific. Like I hear a lot of players talk like um you know what you you've you've all heard the common like fish thing like once I get the high

stakes will respect my raises. Like

what do you think this now that you're playing these like you're playing public games or the biggest public games 1025 and you're playing some of these screen games 2550 501 100 like what is the difference in skill level between the

biggest public games and the actual high stakes games.

Okay. Okay. So, it's really different between private and public because private you'll get people that are rags that wouldn't be public games like very low stakes because they're just used to playing incredibly soft lineups all the

time. Um,

time. Um, and then in public typically your opponents do get stronger as as you're moving up in stakes is what is what I would say. Um, so like once you get to

would say. Um, so like once you get to like the 10 20 level, like typically all those guys that are like regs in the game are actually like playing full-time full-time. Like you kind of have like

full-time. Like you kind of have like rags at like 25 and 510 that like, you know, they have a job and stuff, but they kind of go to the casino a lot.

Typically the guys at 1020 that are playing like every day are just like doing it for a living, I would say, once you reach that stake. Um,

and yeah, this like the skill level of like uh of of rags definitely does like go up and people as you get to higher stakes typically have more money and like are better rolled for it because

they've gotten to that stake for a reason. Um,

reason. Um, so like like dollar like dollar size like dollar amounts you kind of have to recalibrate a lot if that makes sense.

Like people I don't give a [ __ ] about dollars. I

want juice on tell me where the rags are worse and where the wrecks are better or worse.

Oh, I mean like Okay. So, I would say like at when when I'm playing like like higher stakes public games like I'm typically like trying to play closer to like closeish to like equilibrium like versus

rags. Like I'm not comfortable being

rags. Like I'm not comfortable being like, "Oh, this guy ne like I really try not to say the word never like almost ever when I'm playing against like a pro for like the most.

This guy has never been kissed on the lips at the Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I would never make

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I would never make that assumption about someone, but like I mean after you've played like I would say you have to play a few hundred hours with someone before you can start being comfortable saying like closer to absolute statements about I wouldn't even be like absolute but like assigning

75% confidence to things like you have to play a lot of hours with someone I would say once you reach that general um level and then like honestly I've seen recreationals at like

all stakes like there's like not that many like you you like you just kind of see like you just you just have to get better at categorizing recreationals and that's for all stakes. Like,

are they like the guy who's coming to the casino to dust six buyins? Do you

know what I mean? That guy's going to play a lot differently than the guy who only has like one bullet. Like, also,

and people are just like really bad at playing versus Rex, too. Like, I mean, like that's like the most important skill like at every stake and like the one you should focus on and be like the most thoughtful about the most. Like, I

would never ever sit a game because I think there are bad rags playing that day. And I think that's kind of what

day. And I think that's kind of what people think like they're very scared of moving up because they're like the regs are so good. The way you should be thinking about it is like the super [ __ ] action guy is playing that day.

This is the good day to shot take the game. I don't actually give a [ __ ] who

game. I don't actually give a [ __ ] who the other regs are in the game because your win rate maybe you're losing an extra three big blinds versus that reg.

You're making an extra 15 today off that guy who's like dumping it. You know what I mean? Like that's the day you shot

I mean? Like that's the day you shot take the game. And people have this like completely backwards mindset where it's like um you shouldn't really like you need to be getting better at poker and be getting

at playing against rags as you're moving up. But the rags like never really

up. But the rags like never really should dictate if you're playing the game or not unless you're like rag battling which I would never recommend and it's just completely [ __ ] stupid in my opinion for most people unless you're like one of the best of the best.

Um so like yeah I I think people just like have it really backwards and that's like kind of an irrelevant question. Do

you know what I Like the thing you should be thinking about is like where are the fish playing with the biggest dollar blind? That's how you make the

dollar blind? That's how you make the most money in poker. Um

yeah, I think I think a lot of it in my opinion is uh loss minimization versus profit maximization. It's like I don't

profit maximization. It's like I don't want this guy to put me in a spot. That

would be scary. Like rather than this guy's dumping a bunch of You said something interesting too. Um

in that I think you said something like most people just don't know how to play against Rex or like win the most amount of money from Rex. Talk to me about that. That's interesting.

that. That's interesting.

I I mean like I can't I don't want to get like too into it but like generally people are like there's like absolute best lines against certain types of players if that makes

sense. Like you never have a mixed

sense. Like you never have a mixed decision versus like you shouldn't really ever have mixed decision versus these types of players. Like whereas

versus a rag like sometimes you genuinely have a decision that is very very very close and like decisions versus Rex can be close in the sense that like they're winning very small you know what I mean like it's like very

close in terms of like EV but you have a clear decision I would say usually um whether it's like underbluff overbluff overfolded underfolded versus regs that

can be much harder to delineate um and you are going to have like maybe sometimes where you're like I don't know here. I genuinely don't know. I'm just

here. I genuinely don't know. I'm just

going to call sometimes. You know what I mean? Or I'm just going to like run at

mean? Or I'm just going to like run at this time. I don't know. Do you know

this time. I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Um versus Rex. I think that should be different. Uh

you're not randomizing against Rex.

Yeah. Yeah. No. No. I'm not I'm not mixing the old like ace king flat, you know? I'm not uh like I'm not doing

know? I'm not uh like I'm not doing stuff like that ever. And if and if you are, you're leaving tons of money on the table. Um, but yeah, I think just most

table. Um, but yeah, I think just most people should have like way way more focus around their thought process around playing against the players where your money is coming from. Like I'd say 90% of people at lower stakes have it

just completely backwards. Uh, in terms of like what the important things are in poker, I'd way rather like a guy who's very good at playing against fish. I'd

way rather stake him in a game um where he has a good seat than a guy who's just played 50 and online and like studied like and like thinks he's like good at like c betting and [ __ ] like you know

what I mean? Like [laughter] I'd rather have like the field player guy who just like puts in a lot of chips when he has it and then like knows how to bluff catch and stuff if that makes sense.

How did you calculate your hourly at a given table?

Yeah, that's a funny one. I mean, you really just got to be thinking about expected loss rate of of the players and then what the rake is and then like your

expected win rate. So, it's like your win rate comes from other people's loss rate or like basically and then your you take the rake away from that essentially. Um, don't really want to

essentially. Um, don't really want to you don't need to give the whole formula but like the beautiful mind graphics behind you just like Yeah, I It's like the [ __ ] the guy in the hangover with like all the numbers

coming up around [laughter] him. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But uh that that stuff can be really hard to calculate. It's more

napkin math. I would say like I would never pull out your calculator and be [laughter] like what is this guy's loss rate and then like the exact rate and stuff like that kind of roughly. You

want to be able to estimate some of this stuff like like the average wreck online loses like 30 big blinds per 100 or something like that. Um so do with that math what you

that. Um so do with that math what you want. Divide it to figure out how many

want. Divide it to figure out how many hands are played an hour. that kind of thing. Typically, I would say people

thing. Typically, I would say people that are playing more hands lose more money. Um, it's kind of how it goes.

money. Um, it's kind of how it goes.

You're going to be have much more losing hands. Like in your range, you're going

hands. Like in your range, you're going to be losing more money. So, typically

that makes a game better to play if someone's just like kind of playing a lot of hands. Um, yeah.

You talked about a calculator. I

remember the first time I played in Vegas. This is the very first time I sat

Vegas. This is the very first time I sat down at a Bellagio 510 game and I opened to 35 and the rag on my left looks at me and says, "Hey man, can you not open to

35?" And I said,

35?" And I said, "Why?" Okay. And he's like, "Yeah,

"Why?" Okay. And he's like, "Yeah, just open to 30 or 40."

Uh because like then we have to make change for it because like I actually ran a linear regression analysis and I determined that it cost me uh about 1.4 4 big blinds per hour if we have to make

change more than three times an hour. So

like I'll pay for your time because like this linear regression analysis is very accurate with like a 98% confidence interval. So please only open to 30 or

interval. So please only open to 30 or 40.

You know I want that guy in my private game if I ever can you give me a if I ever start a game. I want that guy.

[laughter] Yeah. I mean that's that's nuts. Don't

Yeah. I mean that's that's nuts. Don't

don't be doing that at the tables.

Yeah. I used to be I used to because like selfishly from like I'd be like I I why are all these games going private?

Like what like why are there no big public games anymore? And then like you sit with a guy like that and you're like yeah you know I've been on like both sides of the coin and at the end of the

day it's a personal decision whether or not you want to maximize. Like I try not to take it like too personally. Like I

think some guys just have a different mindset around poker than I do where they just like are very focused on making their money at the table and like are not willing to consider the other things. I think everyone has like a

things. I think everyone has like a different view on like what's I mean I think most people that I agree with have the view of like you're going to be much better off long term in terms of the amount of money you're going to win if

you're like generally don't sweat the small things at the table. Um like

running a linear regression analysis on making [snorts] change like it's probably not the thing that's going to be holding you back.

Yeah, I'm with you. And I, you know, one of the one of the things I had to come to grips with was like, do I want to be right or do I want to make money?

Oh, yeah. I mean,

because they're very different often in poker.

Yeah. No, I mean, [sighs] yeah. Uh, it's one thing you

[sighs] yeah. Uh, it's one thing you have to remind yourself of constantly is like [laughter] it's okay to make the wrong decision. That's like the best decision.

decision. That's like the best decision.

Do you know what I And it's like a very nonhuman thing to be okay with and it's very difficult. That's why understanding

very difficult. That's why understanding theory, I think, and like having baselines for making decisions is incredibly important because like you at least have something to say like I I

think this is a good decision for like X reason. I think a lot of players really

reason. I think a lot of players really struggle in the beginning because they don't know why they're making a decision. Do you know what I mean? Like

decision. Do you know what I mean? Like

knowing like that's like a human thing to want to know why. And like I think like it's good because like you should understand why you're making decisions because you'll make better decisions if you understand like the foundations of

like what makes a good poker decision.

Um and until you have like that kind of framework for thinking like you're going to constantly feel like very emotional about things because like not knowing sucks like humanly like as a human like that really sucks to not know why you're doing something.

Yeah. And it's really easy to just beat yourself up over a decision over and over again if like you're not confident that like you made the best decision for like like I made this decision. I know

over the next thousand times I make this decision, it's going to win me money.

Like if you don't know that, man, you you could you could spiral.

Yeah. I mean, it's like honestly like it's like really really obvious when you like actually like watch like a if you see like a recreational player do something where they like genuinely get coolered or like they did something so standard and they just like they're like

like [ __ ] You know what I mean? Like I

like they like I made a bad decision.

You're like no man. You actually just like you made a great decision. Like

I got it in with top set against a a gut shot. I should have bet bigger on the

shot. I should have bet bigger on the flop.

Yeah, exactly. They just It's just like it's not like these people are typically like very smart also if they're like playing higher stakes because they've been like successful elsewhere, but they just don't have like the same framework for thinking about poker that they do about like their day job or whatever.

So, you get to like kind of see that and like it definitely happens like with rags too if you're like in a spot where you don't know like you might see feel like extreme like I think it's really happening in like side games right now because like the wise are much harder to

figure out. I I tilt my dick off in side

figure out. I I tilt my dick off in side games. So like that really frustrates

games. So like that really frustrates frustrates me because like the wise and like knowing if like something is a good decision is much much harder to figure out because of like how unknown and kind

of extreme th those games can get. Um so

yeah, I can like almost like I can very much like relate to that right now because of like the these playing these kind of unknown games where you're solving like in the moment and having to make decisions that you're like not sure

about like at all.

[snorts] What's your favorite side game right now and why?

Okay, the greed maxing in me wants to say vanilla hold is like my like the only form of poker I ever want to play.

Um, but I am getting more into enjoying squid quite a bit. Like it's just it's pretty it's pretty fun. If I think like deeper squid is fun. Like I don't want to play like short stack.

Short stack squid sucks.

Yeah. Like I just don't feel like doing that. It's just like boring to me. It's

that. It's just like boring to me. It's

like I'd just go play like [ __ ] like five big blind poker or something if I wanted to do that. Um like Deep Sack Squid is like pretty cool. Um it's fun.

I don't like games where like they make people go broke and it's like kind of like at Soft advertises a game that's way smaller and then you're really playing like 10 times bigger because people just don't understand how like insane some of these side games like

make the action. [snorts]

What's your least favorite side game?

Probably Seven Deuce. Like it's just so dumb. like just it's just like you just

dumb. like just it's just like you just bluff seven deuce and [ __ ] like you know what I mean like it's just like I don't know it's just like dumb and boring or like actually no the worst side game right now is this game called deuces

where if you like people try and add like it's action if you get deuces the whole table pays you $500 and you can just like fold and hold how does that how it's not a it's just

it's not a side game it's like it's just like a game like it's not a game it's stupid like I don't know it sucks like I do not enjoy playing it if anybody body at the table is wearing blue underwear. Everybody has to pay you

blue underwear. Everybody has to pay you $500.

Exactly. Yeah, it's

You ever played at a table where everybody was wearing blue underwear?

No, I don't think so. I usually do do an underwear check when I sit down. I don't

think we've ever had I mean, you got to do the the linear regression on that, but the odds of that happening are Yeah, a lot of live poker.

Run the Get the spreadsheet going.

Yeah.

Uh this is like a serious poker question. I know that that wasn't that

question. I know that that wasn't that serious. Uh,

serious. Uh, [snorts] I don't even know what fanges means. I

don't even know. I don't know what that word is. [laughter]

word is. [laughter] I I mean, I feel like we should answer them.

I mean, if you're if you're asking the answer, it's probably yes. That's

usually my default.

Yeah, that's that's one of my favorite questions we've gotten today so far, I think.

Yeah. I'm glad people are really tuning in for this. [laughter]

Um okay.

Well, let me see. We got we got some more good questions in here. Um,

yeah. How are we doing today? We got

some people tuning in.

Yeah, we got this is pretty good for early morning.

Nice.

Yeah, 350 people in here and uh it's 10 a.m. on the West Coast right now. All

a.m. on the West Coast right now. All

right. I've been playing poker for about a year and a half on and off. Mainly

heads up. I feel like I'm super predictable. You can most likely read my

predictable. You can most likely read my game after a few hands. Any advice?

Okay, first off, I ask why you're playing Heads Up. I don't know why you'd be playing that game in 2026 or where you're playing heads up. I really hope it's not on like public online sites, but um

I just I would say first off, you're probably grossly overestimating your opponents if you think they're making sick reads off of you after seeing a few showdowns. Um and most people just

showdowns. Um and most people just aren't paying any attention. Maybe heads

up, it's slightly more, but only advice I have for people ever is just get coach. I People always ask me, be like,

coach. I People always ask me, be like, "How should I study? How should I study?" The easiest way to get good at

study?" The easiest way to get good at something is find someone who is where you want to be or like slightly ahead of you and then like have them teach you because you don't know what you don't know and they can teach you the stuff that you need to know. Like just

learning on your own and like figuring out the things that you don't know is like extremely time consuming. And like

the amount of money I've made off of co like getting coaching, it's like the highest ROI thing like I ever do. Like

you're just super punting. If you're

like if you look at all the guys making it to high stakes online at this point, they're all involved in some type of CFP, some type of coaching group, some type of thing. There's no one who's a

lone wolf. Like I mean it's like study

lone wolf. Like I mean it's like study group or like CFP. like you [snorts] if that's not the clearest signal to you that the best players in the world are doing it that like you should be doing

it too and like everyone climbing the stakes these days is like learning from people ahead of them. Um,

yeah. I don't know. Like, it's just the easiest way to get good at something is just paying someone to tell [snorts] you what you need to know. Like, [laughter]

yeah. And it's like I the same like I I got coaching from Geffin, you know, when I was first starting to play online during COVID and it was incredibly high ROI. Like I went from a fish who had never played online to

being 1KNL like very quickly. Like,

and then I realized like, hey, this coaching thing is pretty [ __ ] good.

like you know like our business model is based around coaching and like we didn't know what we were doing with business right we had we had no idea like absolutely zero idea

and I watched a bunch of this guy's stuff his content like I just I followed his content like and whatever he said to do

we did we we implemented it like it just worked and then like he had this like coaching thing where you could like pay and like get answers from him and I'm like, "No, I would never. That's not worth it. I

could just watch the" And I'm like, "What are you talking about?"

Yeah.

Why would you I think I saw you talk about this and then like I just I just paid, right?

I just paid. I went to the thing like the ROI on that was like 100x most likely. It's like

likely. It's like dude, it's insane. Like people don't understand like a guy pointing out teaching you three things that you could be doing better every hand. Think about

how much that compounds over the long term. Like it's insane. Like it's it's

term. Like it's insane. Like it's it's like same thing for you. He points out two things you can be focusing on dayto day. Like do that for a year. You know

day. Like do that for a year. You know

what I mean? Your outcomes like are it's like one's like a flatline, one's like a J curve. Like it's just insane. Like and

J curve. Like it's just insane. Like and

people just it's just I don't know. Do it once and then you'll see. I guess you know like hire a good coach once.

I think to your point it's like oftentimes like myself included of course like we're way too focused on like short-term thinking.

Yeah. Yeah.

And like this is going to hurt because it's going to cost x amount or I'm going to be giving up some of my profit or whatever. It's like

whatever. It's like zoom out three years from now, 5 years from now, whatever. Like for me, like whether it's poker, whether it's business, whatever, like it's it's been incredibly high ROI.

Yeah. Don't get me wrong, you're going to make higher coaches that weren't worth it at some point if you're doing it enough. You know what I mean? It's

it enough. You know what I mean? It's

like same thing with like like value betting in poker. Like if you're not getting called by better sometimes, like you're not value betting thin enough.

And it's the same thing with coaching.

If you're not occasionally getting like like spending money, they're like, "Yeah, that actually probably wasn't worth it." Like, you're probably not

worth it." Like, you're probably not doing it enough is kind of what I would say.

100%. Yeah. Okay. Um,

any other question? Sorry, I got distracted. Uh, Liz, my wife just came

distracted. Uh, Liz, my wife just came in. The fence guys are here.

in. The fence guys are here.

Oh, I mean, should we bring them in?

Should I bring Should we bring the fence guys in?

I could I could ask him a couple questions. Uh, I think we've kind of

questions. Uh, I think we've kind of maybe covered this, but one more time.

How do you guys get used to losing more money at higher stakes? I personally

feel like I have a low risk tolerance and would need at least a 30k bankroll before I feel comfortable losing a 1K buy in.

Yeah, I mean, this is a really hard one because there's so many factors that go into play on this kind of thing. And

giving generic bankroll advice I would say is like very much like immature slash irresponsible of people to give because like there's really like 45 things you need to be thinking about.

But like the what I would say is like always have enough money at least for me like where I can cover things for the next year if I needed to if like [ __ ] hit the fan.

Um, and then have enough buyins at my main stake where I'm like, this is just like for me like emotionally where I can go into the casino that day and lose the most insane

amount of buyins like you've like ever heard and then still walk out of there and be able to show up the next day and play if I wanted to. So like for me, usually won't shot take unless I'm comfortable that day just dusting five

buyins and then like I won't be like fine with it the next day. The other day I played 5100 and I lost 50k in a day.

It's the most I've ever lost in a day, but like I was fine with it. Like I

brought that much money with me. It felt

terrible. Um but for me personally, like that was just the amount I was like willing to lose um that day. For you,

it's fine if you need to lose a 30k BR before you're willing to lose a 1K buy in. Like you just know yourself and

in. Like you just know yourself and that's like okay. There's like no like clear answer to this. Like also like a 30k bankroll off a 1k buy in like isn't insane. like that's like honestly kind

insane. like that's like honestly kind of low like [snorts] if you're playing like full-time that's like very low. Um,

so like not surprised you feel like that way because that's like fairly aggressive um to be doing especially if you're playing full-time. It's like

fairly aggressive I would say. Like I

was very aggressive like I had like 20 buyins or something like 25 buyins but like you can also just like sit in good games only when your win rate's high. So

you're going to have less variance like that kind of thing. Like I think people really just like underestimate how important it is to be like sitting in good games where you're going to swing less if you're worried about like protecting your like mental state or

like you're playing like low buyins.

Like you don't shot take because you feel like shot taking. You shot take because it's a good game that day and it's a good shot take. Um so yeah, I would say it's perfectly normal what you

feel. And I think most poker players I

feel. And I think most poker players I think people who say like dude I'm like like oh my god that guy's like such a sicko. like he like he like just like

sicko. like he like he like just like he's always like all in like either they're like a degenerate do you know what I mean like like you can just like it's like not really like I don't really know there is a saying in poker it's

like never met like a broke bankroll nit basically and like there's a lot to be said about being a bankroll net um and it also makes it way easier to execute better as well in games

self self-admitted bankroll nit yeah so I mean it's totally totally reasonable in my opinion like I think so People get conflated. Like if

you're playing full-time, you're playing for a living and people are like, "Well, how much bankroll do I need to play X?"

It's like, I don't know, $62,485 63. Like, it depends, man. It's like

63. Like, it depends, man. It's like

what is what is your expected edge?

Like, what's your what's your win rate in this game? It's like, do you have other sources of income? What's going to happen if you lose this money? Do you

have a way to make it back? There's like

so much that goes into it that like you can't just give an answer like yes 19,000 like yeah and there's so much emotional side to that people don't consider. They like

act like they're like some like calculator machine that's like okay like this program said I need this many buyins. It's like okay dude if you

buyins. It's like okay dude if you actually go and lose that amount like are you not going to want to like [ __ ] like you know what I mean? Like

go to the gas station like drink Clorox like you got to like you know what I mean? Like you got to like think about

mean? Like you got to like think about your like self after that.

Do you get Clorox from the gas station?

Yeah, I know this because I went to the gas station. I lost 50k the other day

gas station. I lost 50k the other day and I was like looking around for, you know, just to see like if I needed to what would happen. Um, but yeah, like I it's like so much like personal preference and like so much like you

need to know about yourself and like your own financial situation. Just like

never put yourself in a spot where you're not like I the way I think about it is like can I live my current lifestyle the next day? Um, if I couldn't do that, if I lost the money, it's like not even close to worth it for

me. Like ever. Like I wouldn't like I

me. Like ever. Like I wouldn't like I mean if I can't go to Chipotle and order a double guac without thinking about it like what the [ __ ] am I doing? Like

I should not be playing in that game.

I remember my first time losing a grand in a game. I remember my first 10k down swing. I remember my first 100k down.

swing. I remember my first 100k down.

Like it just they all hurt.

Yeah.

They don't hurt more necessarily less.

It's just like but like no matter what down swing I had like I also wanted to go to the gas station and drink Clorox because that's where you uh that's where

you buy Clorox. But um like when zooming out after sleeping it off or whatever going to the gym or like just laying in bed for 16 straight hours like if you

put yourself in a position where it's like hey like okay I lost a th000 or 50,000 or 100,000 or whatever it is like how is my life going to change? It's not

going to change. I'm going to be fine.

I'm going to be fine. And like worst case scenario it's like okay I can't shot take for another six weeks.

Yeah. Cool. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like I don't know. I think I think like there's like no like silver bullet answer. It's just like whatever kind of

answer. It's just like whatever kind of works for you. And um usually if you're asking also like it kind of means you're in a place in poker where I would not recommend risking lots of money. Like

that's you like if people ever ask me should I be a pro, I'm like the answer is no. If you're ever asking me like

is no. If you're ever asking me like should I what should my bankroll be? To

me if you're asking that question be much more concern.

Hold on. Can I interrupt you for a second? Someone said they're asking if

second? Someone said they're asking if they should be a pro. Your answer is always no. Because I tell people this as

always no. Because I tell people this as well. Like I'd love your perspective on

well. Like I'd love your perspective on this.

It's to me it's not like that. First

off, like you just have to be like such like a like in 2026 like there's so much that goes into being a winning poker player and being surrounded by like the right people,

having the right background, having the right like work ethic to be able to learn things. Does that make sense? and like there's like so many

sense? and like there's like so many things you need working for you to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in poker like at this point and like do it full-time. Um that like I just think

it full-time. Um that like I just think if you were that type of person who had that skill set, you wouldn't need to ask me should I be a pro? Do you know what I mean? Like that's that's kind of what I

mean? Like that's that's kind of what I would say. And like

would say. And like the it's it's also just like there's a million better way. If your goal is to make money, there's a million better ways um to make a lot of money than than

being a a professional poker player.

Like I would say um I mean look at me like I'm trying to make money from content and like doing other things on the side as well because I just like know how difficult poker is to like make many hundreds of thousands of dollars a

year if you want to do that kind of thing. Um and how quickly it can come

thing. Um and how quickly it can come and go. So, like I just think it's like

and go. So, like I just think it's like a really tough like way to make a few six figures a year compared to like other positions.

Yeah, I'm I'm in complete agreeance with you is agreement agreement not agreeance. I'm in a complete agreement

agreeance. I'm in a complete agreement with you here that like if you have to ask the answer is probably no. And like

I remember like like googling this and like when when I was first like considering it and people and people were like no it's it's it's horrible. Don't do this.

It's it's it's and I was like, "Fuck you. I'm doing this and I'm going to

you. I'm doing this and I'm going to prove I'm going to pro my my mine wasn't like my response wasn't like hm you know what maybe I shouldn't." My response was like, "Fuck you. I'm doing this." Like I

don't care what anybody says.

Yeah. And it's it's it's maybe not even the thing of like if you need to ask the answer is no. Because I for sure asked like other pros what they thought. It's

more like if my answer is actually going to determine what you do, the answer is no. Does that make sense? Like like you

no. Does that make sense? Like like you will do it if you really want to do it.

like there would be like nothing that kind of gets in your way of doing it.

Like everyone told me no and I still decided to do it. Like everyone's like and the thing is also like I love playing poker like full-time and I love doing content full-time. So it feels kind of like disingenuous for me to say

like the answer like you shouldn't do it. Um because I just like I like wake

it. Um because I just like I like wake up in the morning like I get to go play like 2550 or 1020 a day and like I feel great. Like I just love being at the

great. Like I just love being at the table and I love talking to people. But

I I know there's also been like horrible moments and stuff too that were like that were like like really hard. Um and

that like I'm like it just doesn't feel like something I'd recommend for like my kid to do, I guess. [snorts] And like kind of be surrounded by people at times that are like not the most savory characters. Um but yeah, like if you

characters. Um but yeah, like if you really want to end up doing something, you're going to end up doing it. And my

answer should not be the thing that determines it. Um so

determines it. Um so or your answer or whatever, like you know.

Okay. Well, you're playing on stream today. Don't want to keep you too long.

today. Don't want to keep you too long.

I know you got to get to uh the lodge.

Any uh any last words of wisdom or uh advice?

That's it. That's beautiful.

Yeah. I don't know. I would say like uh um if if you've like I don't like the like the number one thing that's like benefited me is like if it's people like trying to like you know move up in

stakes or like make content work and things like that. It's like get coaching from people who are ahead of you and like try and get slightly better every

single day. And like if you're sitting

single day. And like if you're sitting down with the intention of trying to become a super pro or a content god in one day, you are going to get extremely overwhelmed. Set like very small daily

overwhelmed. Set like very small daily inputs and kind of just like let those stack for the next year. And I'm sure you'll be like way further ahead than you think you'll be and in the next two

weeks you'll be way further behind than you think you'll be. [laughter] But just keep on keeping going and like you'll probably get a lot like there's a lot to just showing up every single day. Um,

yeah. It's crazy how like the the goalpost and the mountain starts uh starts moving once you've done it for like a year because you don't even realize the progress you make in like a year or two years.

Yeah, exactly. You're like you you'll hit numbers that you never thought would be possible if you just like show up every day and like do the things you said you would do. Um, but if you only do it for two weeks, you will not get even

close to to where you want to be.

Literally, like that's the like showing up every day and doing what you said you were going to do. Like I feel like if you do those two things, it's very hard not to be successful.

Yeah. And I don't do that also, by the way. Like I don't show up some days, you

way. Like I don't show up some days, you know what I mean? And I could be further ahead than I am. And that's like I think like you watch a lot of like hormone stuff and I I think he's like genuinely like gives a lot of like really sound

advice. Like one thing I think he

advice. Like one thing I think he struggles with is like work isn't your life. Also, you know what I mean? Don't

life. Also, you know what I mean? Don't

make bo your life. don't make your work success like kind of be the only thing that like matters to you because like dude at the end of the day no one's going to bed thinking about you like you

said and my grandkids I'm going to sound like I'm going to be like the old guy at a campfire telling like yo back in the day I used to be like a poker pro you know I mean like no one's going to give a [ __ ] like [laughter] as cool as what you think you're doing is like it

doesn't matter like all that much so don't get like too in your head about like that you're on some like grandiose mission to like you know show no one give a [ __ ] when you get there. Like

do the [ __ ] do the [ __ ] you enjoy and like Exactly.

the best thing I've done is like I've built my job and my career always around like the [ __ ] I enjoy doing the most.

And like Yeah, man. And like it is like if you

Yeah, man. And like it is like if you have like this emotional like and financial support that you need to like pursue the things that like you like you want to be doing. Like I wish I could like say because I feel the same way as you like I get to wake up every day and

I'm like this is like actually what I want to be working on which is great.

And I think like if you have the ability to pursue that like and it's like not irresponsible like I just like almost think like it's so sick if you can do it. Do you know what I mean? So like go

it. Do you know what I mean? So like go for it if you're on the fence and you're in the position to be able to do it cuz like I feel terrible for people who are like oh it's Sunday. Like I don't want to like oh man tomorrow's Monday.

It's like what like like you do have the option to like not do that.

Yeah. Like I'm not saying like it's poker, but but like you can listen, you can make money off anything in 202 like whatever your hobby is, you can make money off that [ __ ] right? Like

Yeah. Yeah, I know. I mean, and the other thing is when I'm days when I'm feeling bad for myself, I'm like, "Bro, there are people who are like I mean they're doing jobs they don't want to do and I'm here like complaining about how like a 10k down swing or like like

whatever. I've lost like 60k like the

whatever. I've lost like 60k like the last like month or something and I'm just like I was like feeling bad about myself for a second then I was like I'm [ __ ] lime scootering in Austin right now like doing the [ __ ] I want to be doing like what the I sound like a

[ __ ] massive [ __ ] right now. I need

to like snap out of it. But yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. I think just show up for yourself every day and do little do little daily inputs and you're going to just people are you'll get way further than you think you can get.

It's really good advice. Okay. Good luck

on uh the lodge today. Try not to lose 50k. We don't want you drinking Clorox.

50k. We don't want you drinking Clorox.

Yeah. I didn't bring like enough money with me where I'm going to disappear for a year. So, I think I think it'll be

a year. So, I think I think it'll be fine regardless of what happens.

All right. And uh I guess like if I could give you like one little piece of advice before you go on stream today, remember just to do a an underwear check before Yeah. I'll probably three and a halfx

Yeah. I'll probably three and a halfx under the gun, then do a quick underwear check. And then

check. And then and like if if if there was going to be one day that you would give somebody a kiss on the mouth at the poker table, like today may be a a good day to integrate that into your your strategy.

Yeah. off stream. That's an off-stream thing.

I don't know. I feel like that's really good for stream. Like, how many clips would that like that would be clipped everywhere? [laughter]

everywhere? [laughter] Yeah, I know, man. But I'm already the gay accusations already go crazy on YouTube. I don't know if I can if I can

YouTube. I don't know if I can if I can handle anymore.

Oh, it's okay. Who cares what they say, right?

Yeah. Yeah. They're not going to bed thinking about me. Or maybe they are.

Maybe they are stuff. Yeah. I don't

know. Maybe they are. [laughter]

I feel like that's a good place to end it. Uh, Mr. Tucartito, thank you for

it. Uh, Mr. Tucartito, thank you for coming on.

Yep. Thanks, Mark. Thanks for having me, man. See you.

man. See you.

Thanks, guys.