Maggie Rogers: 'Don't Forget Me', Character Development, & Songwriting | Apple Music

I'm so focused and clear about the things that I want and I've had different goals for every record or things that I really want to accomplish the goal on this album cycle is I'm really just trying to have fun beautiful

and if I don't think it's going to be fun why do it you probably won't find me there I love this album thanks Dan and I think you've made something really personal and beautiful and I know that there's some character development in

here for the first time which is really great yeah other people's lives coming through your filter which is a beautiful way to write and I'm excited to talk to you about these 10 songs side a and side B is it's presented in front of me why

is it presented in front of me in two sides I love vinyl I collect vinyl there's a piece of vinyl over there and I love the idea of a start and end and another start and another end and the same experience but it's it's written

this way and I wonder kind of what prompted you to sort of present this new album in that regard it wasn't even a choice to me that's just how albums are I mean I I've always the way that I listen to music primarily is through

albums and I think so much about tracklisting like on surrender I was tracklisting it as I was writing it I would write something and say oh that's seven oh I need a six like and this

record I wrote in tracklist order so so much fun it was so fun so it was it was like oh I'm at track seven okay so what do I need from Track eight like I was thinking about and chronologically you

wrote it that way as well yeah I wrote it in the of track 1 through 10 that way that's so cool it's almost like I'd imagine that's like how you would you would write an album before you were even given a chance to write an album as

a kid you just imagine this is how I want an album to be made I guess so I don't know I mean I think I just I've spent so much time studying music and I

I'm so deeply in love with it and in Devotion to it so I really like I am a big nerd about it and I've studied tracklisting and for this one I was actually thinking a lot both about

rumors and about Thriller yeah and so when it was when I we'd go in the studio me and Ian fitchuk my co-producer co-writer on this record we would be like okay what's track three on rumors okay what's track three on Thriller okay

and then I had some like big big big random playlist and we would just say like okay well what's a random thing here we'd be like okay how about we work off of this kind of drum groove or like

how about we go from this point and sort of thinking about how those two albums which I think are two of the most classic forever best records um thinking

about how tracklisting works on those records and uh rumors is 11 songs and Thriller is nine so I ended up with 10 straight down right mid straight down

the middle yeah you know I hear and just in terms of the um the the sound design the feel of this record I hear just the the counterpoints of the bass and how how Groove orientated the tempo songs

are there's a lot of Thriller in totally and uh the drums being loud and dry I mean that's kind of you know whatever I do I love songwriting more than anything but also I'm I'm so rhythmic drums I

love drums yeah yeah I think it's what Drew people to you in the beginning we've told the story a million times but I think when people heard your music they were like the production's out of control and then everyone

was like oh damn the writing is like way out of control and so I think I think it comes as no surprise even though you work within on this record you're a producer you know you make your own music you know exactly what you're doing and I wonder kind of what you look for

in a collaborator knowing what you already know I think it's just somebody that like to me I think a great artist is the the distance between your brain and your instrument and to me I'm just

looking for for people who can either help challenge me help see something different or help that distance between my brain and what I'm and my instrument or what I'm trying to create just shorten more and more and I think to

what you're saying about production me it's really interesting for me because I grew up writing folk music and really focusing on songwriting for a long time and that moment of Discovery for me came

in the middle of like you know my senior I studied music engineering and production in college and so people discovered me when I was playing with production it was like this really crazy moment of experimentation yeah you were

a student before you were an artist people saw you as a student for the first time totally yeah and so there's something about this record you know what I've been doing over the last eight years that I've been publicly in music

is still experimenting with production and keeping my songwriting really really close at the core but just you know playing with the clothes I'm dressing that body up in and there's something

about this record for me that just kind of feels like coming home so true when I hear it I feel like it's the record that the younger you wish you could have made 100% yeah I and you know what that's

been really close to my heart in all of this is that my my like 17-year-old 8-year-old self would be really really proud of what a kind thing to do even unwittingly for yourself to be able to like give a gift to your younger self

and say you know you had that idea back then Tyler does this Tyler the Creator did that you go and listen to those the Crea albums he's like this is just hard hip hop it's not he was searching for the Stevie Wonder chords he just didn't

know where the instruments were totally yeah and I think in a way there's so much about this record that feels like a sense of freedom for me because like you were saying earlier I did kind of it I

wrote this record so quickly it was two songs a day for five days and in that I thought I was just making I hadn't tored surrender yet I thought I was just making demos that I knew I want to make

some version of a live record so I thought I was going to go re-record them all with a great band and that Ian and I were just playing and in that there actually became so much heart and

character in like almost everything on this record is the first take and it was like we made a live record with two people and even the lyrics you know you mentioned to me off off mic earlier you

were like the words in this and that was so I was so taken by that because so much of this was just like pen to paper finish the song before lunch like don't

worry about the words just put something down don't overthink it you can finish it later just get the song in there and like keep moving because it was just flow it was total Flow State yeah because at that point you know you got

the tools and you're not overthinking whether or not that you know you know how to use them it's like you've you've done the you've done some hours in this you know you you know yeah I've done some hours but I also in a way like I

sort of made a record by not trying to make a record what a wonderful situation to be in to be going out and being your old self while you've just figured out who you are today well you know what's funny I was in the studio like two weeks

ago and I'm now like six or seven songs into another record don't stop it's just like I well you know what it is it just makes me so happy to be in the studio

and making things it is like total kid play time that it's just exactly where I want to be yeah yeah but I mean getting back to that idea of going out and touring and representing and reflecting

a time in your life to make people happy who love surrender right everyone loves surrender I love surrender we talked about surrender to me surrender was a very different sounding record obvious a very different experience you know there

was a lot of kitchen syn mentality in that like I need this record to live big in order to represent my emotions on this song that's what I took from it like it's not enough it's got to represent it in every way well I think

for me so much about when I'm making records I think about the spaces I want them to live in heard in a past life came you know when I was making that I was still very much listening to music in my headphones and and riding around

with my friends and um that's a technically beautiful place to make music cuz you're hearing every nuance and every little totally um and surrender came after a ton of touring so

I wanted to make a record for live music especially I made that record in the pandemic and all I was doing was just missing live music manting live totally how was it when you played it live when you took it out on the road and you got

a chance to see it so good it was so I mean it was also crazy cuz like live music was coming back at that time so those shows were so sensitive and

cathartic and like the energy current of it was just like it was like riding a big wave all the time it was people were coming to the shows with so much emotion

um and me too I mean there were real moments in those shows where I would openly start crying I mean it was just a lot of energy but then you know this record I really I'm I really wanted to

make something I could sing along to in the car because to me that feels like one of the most intimate places that you can interact with music but on a song like so SIU dreaming I feel like you

unashamedly settle into your swag bag well I feel like you can hear me having fun yeah my friends said that this is the version of me that they know

and I think part of part of that came you got one that's statement you know I think that when people get nervous this is my hot take when people get nervous they become exactly who they

were in high school and wow that's great I kind of sh okay yeah double double boob I don't know if I've done one so soon after another one before keep going um I get kind of shy

and kind of nerdy and kind of Southern and I think make being a musician uh puts really sensitive people in some of the craziest situations you're the number one person that people

want to talk to about this so I know you know I do know because it's a strange job for me to be sitting in this chair given who I actually am completely and so I think it's just taken me the last8

years to really settle into doing this and to being in a place where I'm feel open and relaxed and I'm having fun and I think also part of that in this record

is you know so sick of dreaming is a story that a friend had told to me the night before about another friend of hers that was going through this thing you would never have probably thought that was material before right I never would have thought it was material I'd

only written songs about things that were so personal to me that I never would have written I feel so protective about the people that I love whether I'm in a relationship with them or not I

would never you know I would I would never try and drag someone in a way because I believe so much in mutual culpability in relationships which is actually what the kill is about um we'll

get to that so so sick of dreaming it's so sassy so sassy like I never would have written it about somebody I'd actually dated because that's it's just

kind of savage but I love I love the character that I get to embody and it is like exactly who I am with my like best friends and I think the thing across

This Record is you can just hear how much fun I'm having yeah it's a character study that enabled you to show a side of yourself that to your point would have felt a step too far before

like well it's like writing a novel right like I I feel like I was actually able to show some of my greatest Truth by telling a story story about someone else's life yeah exactly

awesome it's interesting you talk about savag ran songs and the idea of actually um using the medium or the craft in order to expel some in a turmoil at someone else's expense because they

deserve it because they broke my heart and this is the game I think some people deserve it I'm sure I just I I think that uh I don't know doing this gives us such a I hate the term deserve it I mean

deserve it doesn't work either side for me you either deserve success that doesn't work for me or you deserve pain that does definitely doesn't work for me there such a strange power imbalance when you have a public platform and I

think I don't know I I also just think that like there's so many interesting emotions that exist outside of the obvious base anger anger ones and also the job as an artist is just to tell the

truth so if you're like feeling that's what they hide that's what artists hide behind they hide behind it's my job to tell the truth and this is my truth you can tell the truth and still be kind so what do you how does it feel when you hear music that isn't kind can you

listen to it and appreciate it or does it make feel different totally I mean I look cuz this me some great unkind records I still feel sassy and pissed off and frustrated and all those things

you know it's not that those don't things don't speak to me I think the records I hold Timeless maybe

have I don't know I don't think that there is a hierarchy of emotion like like actually like time out like I don't think that there's a hierarchy of emotion I'm just saying in my music like

write whatever feels true and awesome for you I'm just saying in my music I've never written that kind of stuff because I have felt such a desire to be protective of the people close to me as I've Center to public life and so I got

to write this really sassy record so the eyes of somebody else kind of and now it's arriving to me yeah a year later and it feels like a gift from an old

friend this album doesn't feel that protective of your experience anymore feels to your point very open and very much like hey I'm I'm comfortable now being able to explore different things

and I think the word protective I'm glad you used it that's that's an interesting word um that's a word that I would have actually attributed to your early days

the times we used to speak on the phone or do video calls I could tell you hyper protective so scared for so long you had you disappeared I never got to the bottom of why you did that you were like

I'm out in Alaska or somewhere and I'm going somewhere and I don't know if I think you I think you said to me at the end of the interview and you were starting out so if you'd said this now it would have been

like fans would have been like what the is happening but back then you could say in a safe space and and and go and do it but you said something like I'm going away and I don't know when or

if I'm coming back I you saying that thinking I mean I've had a lot of like moments where I've I've look the

how do I say this honestly you know I'll do that um there is nothing I love in the world more than music there is nothing that

I've struggled with more than the sort of structure around how to do this professionally and that's kind of why I went to grad school was to be like I need to rethink this and restructure

this for myself and really think about what being an artist means to me so you had to understand a beta to be able to figure it out how you use I had to Define it for myself and I had to figure out how to do it in a way that was sustainable so that I could do this for

my entire life and this record don't forget me was the first thing I made after grad school and so now my life is Diversified my brain's Diversified

there's less pressure it's that like Esther Pell thing of like one relationship can't be everything like it I was trying to put so much in music

that now my life is a lot more balanced and a lot more full and I'm not saying by any means I have it figured out you never will never the pressure's off a

little bit and I feel such uh like fullness in my life that music just gets to come back to be in playtime yeah I love it I mean how else do you go back

and reflect to your point on those things that inspired you in the first place and not feel the need to run from them to prove something to yourself that you're not that kid anymore it's like no that kid was cool oh yeah I'm like trying to be that kid trying to be that

kid yeah she's sick she is sick um the kill I mean I you know I I don't often Reach Out personally before a conversation and I sent you a note saying when I heard that that song I

heard a while back but I was listening to it again this morning on the way in and it hit so different I just think I can't even really put it into words I just genuinely think that the the what you've

captured through the pace and dynamic of that song CU it's got Pace yeah it's got Pace that's that song's moving it's asking for a lot yeah in order to

justify the musicality and the flow and the and the up and everything that's floating through it and it's just it's it's asking for Urgent thought totally and you really overd deliver like oh thank you you tell the most amazing

story so there's a question in this um what what is the story behind the kill this is really a very much a true story there are true stories in this record

yeah um the kill it's a song about Mutual culpability because the pronouns change in every every uh chorus which is just I write these things when I'm in

the studio and I'm like have my writer brain on and then I get on stage and I'm like this is a nightmare inside of my brain what am I doing so much focused are you me or my EUR it's like such a

nightmare on stage and I've always is like why did I do this why am I so clever I'm actually always watching somebody in the a fan in the front Row's mouth to like know whether or not I have it right I really want all fans now to

come together before effort I want I want somebody to come together with a friend just be like all right wrong words for this song no come on please please have my back um you know this is a song I haven't really talked about the

kill what do I want to say about it I think that there is just when you're in a relationship no matter how much love there is

we learn and we grow from people and I think people hurt each other not intentionally but going in for the kill is like to really yeah get someone and

to love them and to also have them and to also destroy them and I I think being aware of the ways in which we do that to each other and that being the nature of what relationships looks like and how we

grow and that it's okay because in the last chorus it changes to we you know and it is something that we do together and the memory in the verse is like I kept your secrets and stole your

weaknesses in your white T-shirt but you couldn't fill it holy the shoes I'm just going to do it the shoes I laid down for you from the guys that came

before you were all the way in I was halfway out the door oh you were an animal making your way up the hill and I was going in for the kill that shit's amazing

like you an animal making your way up the hill and I was oh man I I love when I heard that this morning again I was like I was right there inside that song

H yeah I mean that I I grew up in the eastern shore of Maryland and there's a real hunting culture there and so it like that to me is like I I grew up

around a lot of deer hunting and say what you want about what you think about any of those things it's just a part of the fabric of that Community the fabric of that community and how I grew up and

like there's a lot of sitting in early hours is waiting and watching or I've actually never been but this is what I've been told and there's something about that when you really love someone or something yeah Ryan batty wrote a

beautiful song called the Hunter which touches on that too oh he's I just adore him same he talks about the idea of being with a hunter and drinking a beer over a kill and trying to figure out what it all means you know that line

actually that really killed me was you couldn't feel the shoes I laid down for you from the guys that came before well in the first course it's I couldn't fill the shoes you laid down for me from the girls that came before and in the last

one it's ones culpability yeah I mean I think also just acknowledging that like every time you go into a new relationship this is what you faced with you're bringing you're bringing everyone that's ever blown your mind and broken

your heart with you god it goes on a all our Liv was it worth it or we just wasting time because we were hurting I mean I just wonder

like when you listen back to these songs when you write songs of five days kind of complete them think you're going to come back but you're happy enough to take him and listen to him and it

happens that quickly and you get out of your way that effectively is it the closest thing you can be to stepping outside of yourself and acknowledging who you really are as an artist and yeah

I mean you know I spent so much time thinking about Artistry and spirituality and all these things that if I were to tell the version of me that was in this studio for surrender that I made a

record in five days yeah I would have been like whatever you good like were you manic like were you on drugs like what's happening and the experience of

doing it was actually so grounded we worked from 10: to 5:00 we wrote one song before lunch and one song after and

it was so normal and full and just like but Ian Ian Ian's collaborative work sounds like that when I listen to Golden nowl it sounds like that sounds like me

he's just so he's so wonderful and he really just keeps Humanity at the center and he was so down I mean we had never met before like we had met barely one

time in 2019 I was coming out of a sushi restaurant and had a bit of sake and was on the way to a stroke show and we like said a quick hi that's a great day was that in New York in LA in La

yeah it was just before the Grammys in 2019 and then suddenly I knew I had a little bit of a a window where I could record and I just I sent him a DM and I said I'm having this really bizarre

intuition I I think we'd make something cool would you be down and he was like yeah sure so these days were just supposed to be we had two days before Christmas and it was just supposed to be

us shaking hands seeing if we came away with anything it was a bonus it was like would we be able to make more music together in March and then we wrote four songs in two days stting with it was

coming all along which is a very telling song title yeah and so that's almost just literally like you are just it was coming along drunk day one so sick of dreaming the kill day two

at the end of day two he had to go home cuz he's got children and I literally like Grand gestured called him and was like I'd never do this but like I know I know we just met but like would you get

back on a plane here and like if we could just have the rest of the week I think we could finish the album and he was like I would love to I can't like but Lee Foster who runs electric lady

who is such a dear friend he was like some it's he was like it's the holidays no one's in here something spooky is going on take the next day on me and

then I walked away with if now was then and I still do wow and so that's so sick and Ian and I were able to get two more days like the first it was like January

2nd and 3rd he was like all right let's just like get it done keep moving see what happens and then the last four songs on the record came all at once when you walked out of the door of

electric lady which is like walking it's like a it's like a crazy classic American Film thing it's like when you walk out of electric lady

when you've done something in there it's like the opening of a classic film it's like New York's at your doorstep you need to understand too that like when I moved to New York City from Maryland

when I was 18 I moved one block to an myu dorm that was one block away from Electric lady so like when I was walking home at night I would reroot to walk by

Electric lady like did you ever seen any body coming in or out of there just things like that you ever get a sense that it real life in there that's what I mean I'm glad you said no because it's being in such a public city it's the

most bizarre I was with Jack anof the other day on camera we had this really great conversation all day I and and I said I love this place and promptly walk past the door I was like I love Electric Lady and

then completely missed the door yeah totally I didn't I didn't even know where it was no you got to know then you walk inside and it's just so when you walked out when you had those songs the last session on January the 3rd you

walked down you knew you had 10 songs in some State some form did it were you just what was the feeling I just felt full when I'm in the studio I get to I

get to go to work and do the thing that I love the most I mean I think that was the biggest surprise when I started doing this professionally CU in college I was in the studio every day because it was what I was studying and then

suddenly I became a musician and i' never made less music or been in the studio less than when I actually got to be a musician I was like wait wait wait wait this isn't what I want you know what's funny do you know what's funny music presenters always joke that whenever we'd get a at festivals it's

the you see the least amount of bands when you're walking at a festival like this is not why I signed up for this was crazy so whenever I get to be in the studio I'm my body is just humming I'm just happier than anybody else because I

get to do the thing that I love and I only get to do the thing that I love like three or four weeks out of the year if I'm lucky wow like because there's other things that I love like playing I

get it I get to go play on stage and tour and like I I love every part of what I get to do but there's this one part how much of that is push and pull though as well like in the other 11

months and one week sure where you're getting to do other things and you and you some of it is unjustifiable because it's a natural inclination to want to do it other things someone's got to justify a little bit for you and you're like I

like it enough I will do it there's compromise but I'll take it pretty good at saying no these days you're pretty good at saying no yeah so what are the boundaries for a good no a solid no to

me the answers are yes or no oh so passionate needs more information which is fine yeah but and these days actually

you know I'm so focused and clear about the things that I want and I've had different goals for every record or things that I really want to accomplish the goal on this album cycle is I'm

really just trying to have fun beautiful and if I don't think it's going to be fun do you probably won't find me there so this is fun this is fun yeah talking to Zayn come on I was really looking

forward to this interview because I feel like I get to see you at such important stages in my life and career and that's why I do it I love it I mean I get to I get to touch base with people at the heightened curiosity level like the

moment when they're like hey I'm open I'm as interested to find out what I made as you are and I have no idea what's going to come out of my mouth so let's figure it out together well it's also like I don't know I feel like this

is my like you you've seen me go deep inside the Cocoon and I feel like I'm coming out into butterfly season a little bit and it feels good it sounds so so good thank how's it affected the

rest of your life outside of just making music where has the joy increased where have the learnings been most prevalent and what have you let go three-part question who but you didn't have to do

it in that order okay wrap it up into one big wonderful Maggie Rogers oh my gosh what else is happening in my life I am I am so so in love with my friends

right now I am about to turn 30 I'm Single for the first time almost since I was 17 wow I've been in so many long relationships that have been so

wonderful um but my life just feels really expansive and fun and I'm I'm still spending time in academics and I'm

in and out of Boston getting to study and learn and be curious about the world and I I just

feel more now more than ever just so so lucky and so grateful that I get to do this with my life life and I know that I say that basically every time I come in here it's different when you say it though as as you go on in life because

you have more experience to back it up it's an easy statement to come to we're told from a young age now which is a good thing that we should be grateful it's a good thing gratitude is a excellent experience if you can feel it you can you can you can make it real but

as you start reaching milestones in your life I I find the Gratitude is backed up you back it up yeah and I feel I think I feel

just I have so much more than what I need and I feel so I think that this industry can sometimes operate off of scarcity mentality what's that scarcity

mentality yeah from your perspective like when you never feel like there's going to be enough or when you're worried that someone else's success means that you can't be successful at

this point I'm like I love what I do I get to play amazing venues and make cool records and that's so sick like I

it sounds really simple or like kind of broy as it comes out of my mouth broy but I love that it's broy it's is like dude I mean I just God I just get to do

I get to kick the football around me my Bros bro let me kick that ball dude I just know what to do with the ball I do I worked really hard to know what to do

with that ball and this is the thing let me take it down the field dude you're at a point now where you can catch spike the ball catch the ball throw the ball catch the ball wow I'm an

athlete p p the ice bucket on yourself at the end you are an athlete you're yeah you're an elite athlete wow thank you you know when you get to that

place of simp simple broom um may we all achieve broom to I've achieved maximum bro State Maximum bro State when you go from Flow State to Bro State this

is so not the conversation I thought we were going to have you know what you know what you realize is that you you come out the other I always look at it as coming out when you're on a plane you come out the other side and you and you come above the clouds and it's blue and it's clear and it's clean mhm and it

feels like the world has stood still cuz there's no clouds in the sky it happens once in a while if you actually bother look out the window there's no there's nothing to conour against and it feels like you you're totally still and you forget all of the altitude you've had to

climb to get there because everything just Falls away below the clouds and by the way all of that that um what did you call it scarcity mentality is below the clouds mhm look to life from

both sides now there you go she got it in one m at and three yeah I know I know I mean you could never compare yourself to that

at that point it's it's like as a as a writer you got to be on listening to albums like that forces you to take your own steps and be on your own Journey yeah it's also it's the only

option like that's all you got you might as well do that who did you want to stand next to when you were a student a

kid figuring it out I always loved Alicia Keys because I grew up playing the harp in Orchestra and I loved that

she was able to bring so much classical music and integrity and dignity into pop music and then I always loved

Feist and the way in which her again Integrity but playfulness and you can feel the

handcrafted nature and the intimacy of those records ashamedly tasteful artists you know taste is an interesting thing we all think that you know we're trying

to put our taste across at the highest level but often we pull our taste back in order to fit in a bit like sometimes I think totally we can be a bit scared to be unashamedly tasteful and I think

when I hear like like when I hear Lea Keys play on a pop song or over a just blaze beat I'm like she is being unashamedly tasteful like she is just pushing all the taste buttons well and I think I always used to think about pop

music as a way to like get people to eat their vegetables like if you're doing it successfully like you have the ability to sort of be like a

spy so good I got it I'm sorry I tried not to but it's just such a great image the idea of like a kid not wanting to eat their broccoli but a great pop song is like you need this in your body you don't even know it's broccoli you just

are getting stronger and health yeah totally and I've always just thought that like if you can bring all of that music history and knowledge and

soundscaping and whatever into a place where it's accessible I mean that's the thing that the greatest thinkers or the greatest artists can do is they take really complicated Concepts and make

them really accessible because knowledge or information shouldn't there shouldn't be a bar to entry for it but it takes great people to be able to make it easily understandable yeah and I think

also if you ask the greatest artists who have been able to do that of which I really include you in that category of somebody who has actually brought a really incredible bar very high bar to

pop music I think about Tom York obviously I think about Trent I think about PJ Harvey um you know I think about these artists who who who came out

Frank Ocean who came out and made records that um pushed every button in our body in different ways and it was only over time we realized that these

were M pop music masterpieces like downward spirals to me mhm what on what planet was that the number one album in America headlining festivals and what

planet in na about algorithms I know sorry no it's not you're not wrong and I like how do you get to 9in nails through an algorithm cuz they're the most weird band like what takes you I

mean I was listening to an episode of the Ezra Klein podcast uh about taste and it was sort of talking about the way it was this great author who has this new book coming out of which I don't

remember and I'm sorry and you can find it on the as reclin show um it was just talking about the way that art that that creates friction against us is actually the art that changes our lives and how

algorithms are sort of designed to just smooth the edges give it something nice and unoffensive for a really long time and and how it's actually like when I

saw Killers the flower Moon I walked out and was like I don't think that was for me I was like that was so long weird and then it haunted me like and then that

movie Just stuck with me but and and to me that is like some of the most powerful art is is art that causes friction or or art that is that asks you

to learn something from it I mean right now I'm listening to that new Idols record which I think is so good so good and I'm listening to like a John col

train Trio record like over and over and over again and like the combo is doing a nice thing for my like friction brain yeah well cuz I think that Joe and Idols

they they're striving to get to that place of thoughtlessness that the great jazz musicians totally lived in and in fact they lived in it so deeply and so

effectively yeah but active listening as an idea like I do it all the time yeah but it's not something that people I mean of course you do it all the time but like listening as an activity on its

own I think I think it's coming I feel like we're hitting and maybe this is wishful thinking that even people who don't work quote unquote alongside the art but love the art are searching for a

reason to reconnect to it because we're pretty bombarded with everything else yeah it's funny you know I've always been so obsessed with pop culture because to me it was like a way to

connect with a cultural Consciousness or with a group of something bigger than myself and in the last couple years I so have been out on pop culture and I think

it's because it just everything is so Niche Diversified that it doesn't feel like I'm connecting to anything that has congealed in a cohesive way it doesn't belong to us

anymore in a weird way like it and it doesn't belong to any one group of people it's all through the eyes of the beholder of the device or the opinion or the whatever and totally so I'm I'm down with that when it but I wait for it to

find me I wait for it to to to require me to to be invested and then whatever space I have left or right of that I choose what I what I what I in invest in right I take the no longer presented

with the algorithmic version of my life I'm like nope I'm going to sit down and I'm going to put on you know Les McAn record and I'm going to sit down and I'm just GNA and I'm not going to sit down and like you know meditate and like oh

my speakers are so good I'm going to do right that's broom that's again a high state of Bron High state of Bress right I'm going to do an nyt cross word I'm going to read or do even do some

work or whatever but I'm going to let music be the event I mean when I was in high school I went to boarding school and on the girls dorm there was like a

cork board of burned CDs and anyone could take it and put it into their laptop and so you just put it up on the board yeah everyone would just make CDs and then youd just go grab one and you'd put it in your computer and you'd sort

of like make oh this is like Lucy's playlist every single movie ever made about a boarding school is borderline torch a horror this sounds like the greatest experience of all time de po Society the holdovers okay I haven't

seen the hold over Society yeah okay cool maybe I'm just talking about the stories that my friends taught me when they boarding school you know now I'm at this place where as you were saying like I'm I just hit up

my band and was like y'all send send playlists and I'm having the best time actually you know who has the best playlist is Robin pecknold from plea foxes imagine he's got such great taste

and he's such a sweet buddy and he's got a playlist that he's adding a song to every day I love that and it's my favorite thing right now I'm just sending you a playist right now oh hell yeah I'm starting with a bold one but I

think you'll get it this is actually this is this is actually my uh this is u i i play this I'm obsessed by this all the time and it actually gives me space and gives me time back it's um

very ambient still that's all I want landscape do you know this woman Callie Malone no oh she's this amazing organist um and I listen to she has She's Got

This Record called the sacrificial code it's just the organ tunes and I listen to that a lot dude it's crazy Andrew with silic he's another one of my favorit oh he's so good we give so so

much to the things in our life right the tools that we have now it's all give give give like I like Tik Tok and stuff but I'm giving a lot to Tik Tok and not getting into enorm you're being employed by a

company 100% but you don't feel like you get back from things in your life I do but I but I I want more time and space from it like I get a lot back in my life but it's all very compressed right life

is compressed especially as you the older you get this is a compressed time in our lives from 30 to about checkout is pretty compressed like you start to think about what is my architecture what's in

it there's a point to this like my family's getting growing up there's lots of different competing energies and they were all beautiful but it they all require time so what I love about this

music I just sent you is it gives me back space and I feel like I'm getting time but space back okay not to bring it back to this record yeah you know God

forbid we should talk about your music after 15 minutes of like Bress look I'll bro down anytime um I was in the studio with

Ian like I said a couple weeks ago and we were like 2 days into 5 days and we had been working on a song that I had brought in and I was like the week's

almost over we're like halfway through and I haven't even we haven't even started writing for fun yet like are we going to have time and then I was and then I remembered making this record and

because I was calm and grounded and present time felt infinite so as you're saying like there's not enough space or

space gets compressed it's also sort of like dealer's Choice that's exactly what I'm saying I choose to listen to this I make I take some control choices choices

and I think that we we we relinquish that a lot in our daily life not even on purpose I think we just get spped up and thrash totally and we forget we actually have a choice to stop I mean these days

I'm trying to be because my brain wants is so excited about life and wants to work on so many things at one time I'm I'm having to really actively try to not

multitask these days and just let myself be focused on one thing it's a great skill I'm building it I you know it's step by step and everything you know the world feels like it's changing right now

in this crazy way it does feel day by day right now and maybe that's just cuz I'm 29 and I feel a lot but I think it's bigger than that well I think it comes back to we're talking about through the filter of art which is that I think

people are searching for things to add to their life that are a little more meaningful than this kind of microscopic um frequency that's just

popping yeah and I mean the greatest like privilege of getting to do this professionally is getting to be in the passenger seat when someone's

driving home or getting to be there in these like really deeply intimate personal moments and m i take that

really seriously and that to me is that form of connection like the depth of that connection I will take

that that critical connection over a critical mass to use the words of Adrienne Marie Brown I'll I will take that any day you're very connected on this record and therefore we feel

connected to you I've learned more about you listening to this album than I have any other album that makes sense cuz my guard is finally up to my eyeballs right but also because I'm not competing with the other things I love about your music

I'm not competing with all production brain like chilled for a second just for a second and it's like I get space back when that song starts claro is is one of my like dearest dearest friends she

takes her time and when she takes her time her new record is so good it's so good say anyone that way um when I showed her this record

she she was like it reminds me of Lucinda in the way that it's the music you put on when you want to cry yeah

dude oh yeah and I I was like that that was when I made this record I needed a cry what do you put on when you want to cry and you're not listening to yourself which might be a little too

far in the Bro in the put on Lucinda Williams or Jillian Welch or like that is I mean because that's the music to me like I said this record Feels Like Coming Home yeah like that's the music

that I turn to over and over again I used to have this time on tour when I was really sad where I'd get off stage and I'd put this song on I'd have a beer in the shower it was not good after

shows post show oh my God it a sad time I mean it's kind of a beautiful thought that you can actually come up something so you far I could find a quiet place in a shower and with the cold beer oh cold

beer hot shower slow down have a good cry but this is when I was listening to like time out of mind before show all the time wow you were in it I was in it what were you so bummed out about I

don't even know that I was bummed out I think I was just trying to well I was bummed out someone was in the middle of breaking my heart but oh yeah that's going to suck especially when you have to go on stage and be like hey everybody

let's do a show no but you know what I think there's so much Beauty in that because it's it's real you know light looks brighter next to dark and all of it can be in one space I mean it should

all be in one space at a show well you only get to go in the studio 3 weeks every year which means that we only have a talk once a year around that 3 week time well maybe next time I'll have long

hair just I'm not obsessed with your hair it does look really good just come back in between albums it's fun I will

yeah all right dude nice to see you you [Music]

too