Making 6-figures from 200 Books a Year Using AI – Coral Hart on Writing With AI Podcast

[music] Writing [music] with AI.

Welcome to the Writing with AI subreddit podcast, and we are thrilled today to have Coral Heart. If

you don't know who Coral is, you haven't been on the internet for the past month.

A New York Times article about her career as an author, as as Yoav said, broke the internet. She

[snorts] did our Ask Me Anything just recently, and if if you want to find out about her and her process, you can go back and look at that. According to the Times article, Coral has published

dozens of novels under 21 different pen names. I think in just the past year,

names. I think in just the past year, she not only publishes, but she teaches courses under the Plot Pros banner. She

uses Claude and something we're going to ask about later called Auto Rhythm. And

she may possibly be writing two books just while we're talking right now. So

so Coral, welcome to the AI with subreddit podcast. Thank you for having

subreddit podcast. Thank you for having me.

It's a pleasure to be here, and I had fun at the Ask Me Anything. I was really surprised how well-behaved everyone was.

So so were we. So were we, to be honest.

Surprised. Well, I think it goes back to something that Yoav and I have seen, and I think Corey, you've seen it, too.

As the technology just keeps evolving and getting better, and as people get over the shock of the new, they're now kind of going like oh They've gone from

outright disgust and disdain to okay, maybe I should be checking this thing out. Is is that how you're experiencing

out. Is is that how you're experiencing it, Coral? Yes, I like I think we've

it, Coral? Yes, I like I think we've gone from absolute outright disdain to maybe I should figure out how that works, just in case, to quite a lot of

panic learning.

Not just as the tools change, but I think it's just common sense that industries across the board are changing. I started in 2010 right as

changing. I started in 2010 right as ebooks came out. Remember when ebooks came out, Fred? And real authors would never have their books as ebooks only.

Paperbacks are real books. You remember

that? That's all that they died on back then. And I watched close close

then. And I watched close close publishing friends die on that hill. And

I was like, this is this this hill, this AI hill, I'm watching it in other businesses. I'm watching it in tech. I'm

businesses. I'm watching it in tech. I'm

watching it in film. I'm watching it in music. I'm watching it everywhere. It's

music. I'm watching it everywhere. It's

a tsunami. So if we don't climb to the top of the hill and learn to use it, we are going to get washed away. We are

going to die on that hill. This One of the very first AI learning things I went to the gent, and he he was a billionaire CEO tech guy. Most of it went over my head. But the first thing he said is the

head. But the first thing he said is the most dangerous thing any person can be right now is afraid of AI. Because if

you're afraid of it, you won't learn.

Why I went public because this conversation needs to start happening out loud, right?

Yes. Yeah. Authors should not have to hide how they're doing things. They

should not have to be afraid that a bunch of nimwits with keyboards are going to ruin their careers like that poor girl now with Shy Girl and Hatchet.

Sorry, shame on that publisher for not standing by their author right out the gates. I think it's The past week,

gates. I think it's The past week, Hachette Publishing took a book off the shelves in the UK and is not going to publish it in the US because they've

said there was evidence that the author used AI. Because it's not going to be

used AI. Because it's not going to be part of the discussion. The author is saying they had a friend helping them edit it. The friend might have used

edit it. The friend might have used Whatever. There was evidence of AI use,

Whatever. There was evidence of AI use, and we can talk about what what that evidence might be. But do you think we're headed for a fork in the road, right? Where there is going to be some

right? Where there is going to be some group of people who particularly publishers and probably traditional publishers who will say, "No AI. We

don't want you to use AI." And then on the other side of the fork, people who go, "Yeah, we'll publish books with AI."

You're shaking your head. You don't

think that's going to happen.

Traditional publishing is a business, right? It's been a business for hundreds

right? It's been a business for hundreds of years.

It changed with the printing press. It

changed with digital printing. It

changed with ebooks. It changed with Kindle Unlimited, right? This is the next change. Writing is an art.

next change. Writing is an art.

Publishing is a business. The business

people are not all of a sudden going to make stupid business decisions to protect artists. That's never going to

protect artists. That's never going to happen. It's never happened before, and

happen. It's never happened before, and it's not going to happen now. Yes. It's

not magically going to happen this time because authors have decided they don't like AI. Publishers are going to adopt

like AI. Publishers are going to adopt and build their own AI systems. They're going to look at AI systems that are out there. You have to be honest. If you

there. You have to be honest. If you

were only thinking with your business mind, right? If I have all the market

mind, right? If I have all the market data in the world, which they do, and I can create that book without paying a six-figure advance, without paying an

editor, without waiting six months for you to write it, without the cost of a graphic designer, what happens to my profit margin?

Yeah. Yeah. So

Okay. So I I'm with you on that. Um

the the Yoav, cuz I think you have a question here.

to challenge that a little bit, if if I may. Just a question about that. Another

may. Just a question about that. Another

option, okay, that that Totally agree you on the business side.

Um Which if the publishers themselves would agree with that, I would I would expect them to be much more AI-friendly already today, which they're not. So I'm I'm I'm

wondering if there's at least externally and publicly, yes, we don't know what what what At least externally, is there a chance that we might actually see something that's more similar to what

happened with literature? That you have the the the business of of selling it as split into let's call it high quality

and hard work mastery products that are also very expensive, like really expensive book that you know a human author wrote, and it took him 2

year, and he suffered a lot for writing it. And there's going to be those

it. And there's going to be those publishers that say, "I create the books. I don't I Why would I need even

books. I don't I Why would I need even the the writer?" I do think we will see both.

But it's going to be like you said, the furniture analogy.

There is hand-crafted written with your 2H pencil on a piece of paper, cuz that's the only way you're going to be able to prove you didn't use AI. Those

books are going to sell for a lot of money. And those books are going to be

money. And those books are going to be held by collectors who will never read them and just have them on their shelves. Like art. You know, like the

shelves. Like art. You know, like the dude that has a Picasso hanging in his lounge. Exactly. Probably doesn't even

lounge. Exactly. Probably doesn't even know who Picasso is, kind of. I do think there will be that kind of a divide, but I don't I don't I don't see authors

being the business that puts AI back in the bucket in the bag, just because they say no. That's not You say no, the

say no. That's not You say no, the publisher no longer actually needs you.

They just need your ideas. There's a lot of ideas out there. Well, so that gets to I think that gets to a central question here, which is right. At at

some point, well, I don't know about you, Coral, but but but I work as a as a writer and often as a freelance writer, right? And and you would get a publisher

right? And and you would get a publisher calling you and saying, particularly in the '80s and '90s in America, when there were these quote unquote humor books, right? And they would be at the front of

right? And they would be at the front of the cash register, and it'd be some funny idea. And you would gotten a call,

funny idea. And you would gotten a call, you know this cuz I was writing comedy, and you'd get a call from some publisher, "And we'll pay you $3,000. Can you turn this out in a

$3,000. Can you turn this out in a month? It's, you know, a funny book

month? It's, you know, a funny book about X, right?" Well, now AI can't really is not yet capable of writing a funny book, but it's certainly capable of

writing a funny book or writing a book about building furniture. Capable of

writing a book about how to use Claude code. It's capable of writing a book

code. It's capable of writing a book about any number of things that it can search the web for and finish. So so the valuable thing is who has the idea for

the book. AI can write a funny book. AI

the book. AI can write a funny book. AI

can write a funny book. And it can write an emotional book, and it can write a book that will make the reader cry, and it can write a horror book that will

make your skin crawl if you know how to make it write that book. If you know what a good funny book is. If you know the craft behind a funny book. It can.

With "Hey, AI, write me Okay. So here's here's how I here's how

Okay. So here's here's how I here's how I I'd correct that. I can use AI as a writing partner to write something

funny. Right? So that So I can help it

funny. Right? So that So I can help it to I can go, "That's dumb, but you could try it this way." And then get something back that might be a turn of phrase or

whatever that might It It's It's somebody in the room that I could work with. I am completely familiar with.

with. I am completely familiar with.

Yeah. Okay, but but I think that like as the non-writer here, I think you need to understand what you're saying because it's not that it's it's a real What you're saying is a bombshell. Why? And

maybe Coral, I would like to hear your opinion as well, because I think And maybe one of the reason that the subreddit is is getting so so big is I think that one of the promises of AI is

anybody can write. Anybody can write.

Now anybody can publish the book. But, I

think what you're saying without really saying it is that anybody can generate words on a page, but if you don't know how to write, it it's just word words on

a page. So, it's not that the

a page. So, it's not that the non-writers now have this, you know, holy weapon. It's that the writers are

holy weapon. It's that the writers are actually the one that benefits the most, not the the the layman that wanted to write. This this is how you you see it.

write. This this is how you you see it.

I see both, right? There are

magnitude out there of phenomenal storytellers who have amazing stories to tell that are rubbish writers.

Okay.

Those storytellers difference? But but that's maybe for for

difference? But but that's maybe for for the Yeah, so the difference is a storyteller has a story to tell, right? They have

the story, they have the idea, they have the concept, they know the characters, they they could tell it to you, but when it comes to actual writing craft, to putting it on the page, they don't have the building blocks, they don't

understand the story structure, they don't understand the craft, the formatting, the grammar, Chicago Manual of Style, syntax, all of those things still matter because AI still makes

those kind of mistakes, right? If you

don't know what story structure you want to write, AI will write every book you give it on Save the Cat. Right? Save the

Cat is very very bad for mysteries. Save

the Cat is really really really bad for thrillers. Save the Cat is horrible for

thrillers. Save the Cat is horrible for romance. So, if I don't tell the AI,

romance. So, if I don't tell the AI, "Hey, I'm writing a thriller. We need to use the Fichtean Curve to create that story." It's not going to do it. And

story." It's not going to do it. And

that's that's the gap. So, your

storyteller has the chance now to write the story, but they still need the craft. Your writers who've owned their

craft. Your writers who've owned their craft now have speed. So, I'd love to kind of walk backwards a little bit through your your process. And and

there's a you know, a strong cohort of people on our subreddit who would love to make a living from their writing. And

they are using AI. But, let's put a pin in the in the long discussion of what is the proper way to use AI. They're using

AI to generate work they're happy with.

I think it'd be great for them to understand a little bit, and some of this came out in the ask me anything, about how you sell your books, right?

So, so let's assume the book exists. I

know you AB test things, you prefer to that, but how do you go about selling the books that you write using AI? So,

first, I cannot sell a million copies of a book that two people want to read. So,

selling my book starts before I write it. Before I write a single word, I have

it. Before I write a single word, I have chosen a hot subcategory. I've looked at the genres, I've looked at what's selling, I've looked at the market, I've looked at the popular tropes in that

market. I've built a trope map for my

market. I've built a trope map for my series that I will then build my story ideas from. Marketing happens before you

ideas from. Marketing happens before you write a single word. When I've finished the book, that's advertising. Marketing

is the foundational building block. I

start How do you do that?

How do you research Yeah.

Amazon Top 100 is your best friend. You

should be looking at it every single day. Um there are data sets like

day. Um there are data sets like Klytics, TP Spy. You have AI at your fingertips.

TP Spy. You have AI at your fingertips.

Hey, Claude, what were the top 10 in my niche for the last 6 months? What were

their common tropes? What were their common themes? What were the top

common themes? What were the top subcategories? Which is the lowest

subcategories? Which is the lowest competition, highest reader value for my subset, and then work from that. We have

data at our fingertips now. I don't have to take the Klytics report to plow through it and pretend to understand graphs anymore. I download the whole

graphs anymore. I download the whole thing into Notebook LM and say, "Give me the cliff notes." Even better, make it audio so I can listen to it while I'm doing something else.

Right? AI is a huge part of my whole process. Like, I'm not I don't like

process. Like, I'm not I don't like admin. So, if AI can do the admin, it

admin. So, if AI can do the admin, it does it. So, my process starts with

does it. So, my process starts with finding the market. I start most of my classes with, "You can't sell a million books if only two people want to read that book." Right? You might love the

that book." Right? You might love the book. Might be the story of your heart.

book. Might be the story of your heart.

But, if only two other people want to read it, and one of them will be your mom, so they don't count, you can't sell a million books. Understanding that

successful writers write to market is one of the hardest mindsets for writers, right? It was soul-crushing this last

right? It was soul-crushing this last couple of months for a lot of my students when they come into class and they're like, "I'm going to write romantasy." And I'm like, "Romantasy is

romantasy." And I'm like, "Romantasy is at a hard stop. The market is saturated.

Publishers are not buying it anymore.

The data says that's not a space for new authors. Pick something else if you want

authors. Pick something else if you want to make a living." Yeah, that's something It's interesting. TV and film writers have kind of known this for years, right? You know that you have to

years, right? You know that you have to walk into a studio or network, and and you're going to meet with a group of people who just came out of a marketing meeting. So, you know, and and I've

meeting. So, you know, and and I've often said to you a lot of It's like It's product design is what it is. We

know there's I have a solution for a need that this market has, right? They

want more stories about X, and I'm going to do that for them. So, readers don't buy books, they buy feelings. And

feelings are tied to tropes, and it doesn't matter what genre you write in.

If you can trope map to market, your success rate doubles immediately. Mhm.

If you had a 5% chance before you started, if you can make a trope map, you have a 10% chance in that market.

Yeah. So, a lot of a lot of what I teach is based off my process, which is a trope map. I trope map my entire series

trope map. I trope map my entire series in one go to market, looking for hungry niches, looking what's popular, what's trending upwards, what publishers are

buying, right? Traditional publishing is

buying, right? Traditional publishing is painfully slow. That's why I don't do

painfully slow. That's why I don't do it. If a traditional publisher is buying

it. If a traditional publisher is buying up a trope right now, 18 months before they're going to publish those books.

So, they believe those tropes have 18 months of market still left in them, at least plus 18 months after that. So, if

I hop on that trope wagon now, in that 18 months that they will then really take to build those books and get them ready, I'm already in the algorithm. I'm

already sticky. The readers are already finding me. So, when their books hit,

finding me. So, when their books hit, I've already ridden that search. My

books are there. Every time somebody puts that that search in, I'm going to pop up with their books. So, you've

identified this market, you have your trope map.

How do you go about writing your books?

What's the process like? Okay, so I have two processes. If I'm working directly

two processes. If I'm working directly in an LLM like Claude, the process looks one way, and then I have a different way. So, if I'm working in Claude, I go

way. So, if I'm working in Claude, I go from trope map to story seed. So, story

seed, we call it the trope kebab in our office, is where I string those six tropes together into a comprehensive story idea. Right? Which trope is going

story idea. Right? Which trope is going to bring my readers? Which trope is my conflict? Which one is my unique twist?

conflict? Which one is my unique twist?

And how do the others build the story?

Once I have a story seed for every book in the series, I never write one book at a time, right? Especially working with AI, it will go off the reservation and make stuff up. If you plan a series with

AI, you need to plan it all at once, otherwise it gets very stupid. It's like

a toddler. It has the memory span of about this much. So, do it all at once, and then you're good. So, from my story seed, I go into building a codex, or the

codex is sort of my series bible, world bible, character sheets. Um it has all the character information, all of those details. It also attached to my codex is

details. It also attached to my codex is my style sheets. So, I come from a traditional publishing background. I

worked with traditional publishing editors for 16 years. I do believe there is heavy value in understanding your style sheets and knowing what your style

is for yourself. And the only way to get AI to mimic that style is for you to be able to identify those craft words and style words and put it in. So, from

style sheets and codex, I move on to a beat sheet. That comes from my story

beat sheet. That comes from my story structure. So, for instance, I work in

structure. So, for instance, I work in romance, I follow Romancing the Beat.

Having a beat sheet stops Claude or Chat from solving the murder in chapter two or having them fall in love on the first page of the book, and then it being very

boring. So, having a beat sheet fixes

boring. So, having a beat sheet fixes the pacing problems that AI inherently injects into everything that it does.

From my beat sheet, I go to my outline, and this is where I differ from other people, right? If you've tried to write

people, right? If you've tried to write with AI, have either of you tried to write a book from an outline with AI? I

bet you've given it a super detailed outline with all of the things you want in that chapter, and then gone, "Why have I got this rubbish back from it?"

You cannot give AI all the details. Five

bullet points. There is nothing more than five bullet points in my outline structure. Who, what, where, why, and is

structure. Who, what, where, why, and is there sex, drugs, and rock and roll in it? Those are the only five things in my

it? Those are the only five things in my chapter outlines. And I outlined that

chapter outlines. And I outlined that way before AI because I have a squirrely brain, and I don't like to know how things end before I start them. I get

bored. And when I took my natural flow process straight into AI, I immediately got better results than my friends who were giving it every last detail. The

other thing I've I've learned at this that step of the working with the AI is don't tell AI things, ask it things.

Don't tell it the character is a 6-ft Adonis with a six-pack and blue eyes cuz in chapter three he'll have a dad bod and a bald spot. If I ask AI to build that character, to tell me what he looks

like, to tell me what his wound is, to tell me his character flaws, it's built that character itself, it makes less mistakes. The same with setting. AI is

mistakes. The same with setting. AI is

notorious for moving the couch or them flying through walls or the door doesn't exist anymore. I don't tell AI what a

exist anymore. I don't tell AI what a place looks like because it has no imagination, that place is in my brain.

So, unless I've actually got a physically drawn map, it's not going to understand what I'm saying. If I ask it or I simply say, "We're in the coffee shop." and I leave it at that, I'm less

shop." and I leave it at that, I'm less likely to have moving walls, floating furniture, strange things happening.

Less at that point of the process is a little bit more. So, that's my process up to outline. When I get to my outline, I dev edit my outline before I start. I

check it for plot holes, continuity errors, timeline issues, character arcs.

I run a full dev edit on the outline before I start. Saves time. Everyone

hates editing. I love editing, but my students really don't like it. So then,

once I've dev edited my outline, my little magic system with Claude is, "Claude, this is my outline. Please will

you create the prompt you require to write every chapter so that you stick to the outline, follow the style sheet, maintain the codex rules, keep the

premise, focus on the romance, keep the tropes central." Claude writes its own

tropes central." Claude writes its own prompts. I take those 15-20 prompts and

prompts. I take those 15-20 prompts and I feed it back to Claude chapter by chapter. Let's write chapter one.

chapter. Let's write chapter one.

And this is the part where a lot of AI positive are failing and they're like, "I can't get it to do what I want it to do and I have to rewrite the chapter 50 times." Stop it.

times." Stop it.

Right. When you work on a real book, when you write a book, Fred, I don't know about you, does your editor stand next to you and go, "Why did you put an em dash there? How come that sentence is

so long?" Don't you think you You didn't

so long?" Don't you think you You didn't use the em dash. Did you use AI? Did you

use a But But he does He doesn't do it while you're working. He does it when you send

you're working. He does it when you send him the whole book at the end. So, why

are we micromanaging AI chapter by chapter?

Get the whole first draft. Draft the

whole book. Draft all those chapters. I

don't fast chapter by chapter. I draft

chapter one, I give it one prompt. Is

this a good hook? Have you followed the rules? Are there AI-isms? Is there

rules? Are there AI-isms? Is there

repetition? And is my reader going to be satisfied? Fix any problems. That's it.

satisfied? Fix any problems. That's it.

Move to chapter two. I don't even read the chapters at that point. I read my book when the book is finished.

Because when I'm working with AI, Claude is my ghostwriter and I am the creative director, the developmental editor, and the line and copy editor. I'm the

publisher. So,

I've learned I've I've learned a little bit better now to um divorce my emotions a little bit and not be precious when I'm writing every

chapter. Once I have my full draft out,

chapter. Once I have my full draft out, I go straight to Marlowe AI, that's my favorite dev editing AI. It's on the tools product. Mark it back. Gives me a

tools product. Mark it back. Gives me a solid solid AI report on the dev prob- problems with it. I've built a Claude skill now in Co-work. So, once I have

that Marlowe report back, it goes into a Google Drive with the manuscript and I say, "Hey Claude, given the attached manuscript and the attached

developmental report from Marlowe AI, please would you compile a full developmental edit for this manuscript focusing on" and I list pacing,

narrative foreshadowing dialogue everything that my dev editor would pull the out of when I send them the book. Claude compiles me a really good

book. Claude compiles me a really good dev editor report. So, thanks, Claude.

Now, please create the 20 chapter prompts to execute those edits in one go. I don't fast and editing at that

go. I don't fast and editing at that point. I have a tool to speed this

point. I have a tool to speed this process. Once I've executed the

process. Once I've executed the developmental edits, that is when AI leaves the building. I now have a semi-solid, very dirty second draft. The big picture

problems have been fixed. Yes, it's

probably got 400 unreadable expressions, military precisions, and the boardrooms all smell like success in it, but that's what line editing is for. I take it out,

I put it in ProWritingAid, I sit my combined reports, I start at the top and I edit it, line edit it, and do my rewrite right away. Top to bottom in one

go. I don't like to be disturbed when

go. I don't like to be disturbed when I'm doing that line edit. So, that's

normally when nobody's allowed to talk to me. Everyone stand in the games

to me. Everyone stand in the games outside the office, feed yourself, eat cornflakes. When I start editing a book,

cornflakes. When I start editing a book, I edit it in one go.

Um after the line edit, I will generally then read the book properly for the first time as a reader. I do that in Vellum where I read, proof, and format

in one go. I like pretty things, so I like formatting my book really nicely in Vellum. And also with ADHD, reading the

Vellum. And also with ADHD, reading the same book more than maybe two times is painfully boring for me and I just get bored and I don't do it properly. So,

that's why that part of my process is in one go. It's in one space. Vellum splits

one go. It's in one space. Vellum splits

it chapter by chapter. I work one chapter at a time, do a final polish, format it really beautifully, and then it goes straight to Amazon, onto pre-order, and off it goes. So, I do

read every book. I do edit every book. I

just don't waste time doom editing in a doom loop in AI for hours on the same chapter. Arguing with a machine. If you

chapter. Arguing with a machine. If you

are arguing with Claude, go outside and touch grass cuz you're doing the wrong thing. So, that's sort of my process.

thing. So, that's sort of my process.

From that process, my amazing dev team behind the scenes built Authorhythm. So,

I no longer do that whole process on Claude. Everything up until my first

Claude. Everything up until my first draft is done inside Authorhythm.

Authorhythm can draft five books a five book series in one go.

Mhm.

I have to put information in. It's not

magic. Just come up with it. I build the pen name, I build the style sheet, I build the codex, I build the premise, I put in the seed, I tweak the seed, I edit the outlines, I check the outlines,

I build the characters with it, I build the world with it. All of the the setup that I did in Claude is still there. All

the input is still there. The first

draft is just not done chapter by chapter. It takes that input and it

chapter. It takes that input and it builds those prompts. I just call it code voodoo, whatever he does in the background, he code the author. I talk

author, he talks code. That's how it works. That's why it works great. Um and

works. That's why it works great. Um and

it it generates those those first drafts in one go. So, you have a whole first draft really fast. So, probably a five book series is about two hours to

generate the books, two to three hours depending how busy all the LLMs are.

Bear in mind, our system does not use one LLM.

It is built to know Chat writes funnier dialogue than Claude. Claude writes

better prose than Chat. Grok will give you sex, drugs, and rock and roll with no holds barred. So, every part of that chapter writing pulls the correct API

for what we want it to do. So, that's

what Authorhythm does and that's in beta at the moment, going live very very soon. We just added sort of second wave

soon. We just added sort of second wave of beta testers to it.

So, that came from my process. We screen

recorded everything I did for weeks and weeks and weeks on end and the team built the system from there because I don't speak code. That was how they had to do it. So,

I cut even more time out by building a system that works with the craft, with the story structure. So, when I'm setting up in Authorhythm, I can choose my story structure, I can choose my

beats, I can choose my niche, I can choose my tropes, everything is set in there. It also has data. So, when it

there. It also has data. So, when it lists the tropes, they're listed in order of how marketable they are for your niche.

That's incredible. First thing, thank you for taking us through that entire process. That was

process. That was pretty much covered all of my questions for the entire hour.

This is great. So, let's ultimately Go ahead, Yulaf.

Fred mentioned that there are people in the server that that want to make a living, but I don't think that that's what they think is making a living out of writing. Um and I think a lot of

of writing. Um and I think a lot of people have usually one of two things, either a particular story, a particular story

that they want to tell, or in many cases a world, a world that many had potentially has a lot of stories in it.

These are usually the two the two cases that I see. Um

And I think that the process you're suggesting is my god, it's really hard to have your story, your particular story with your process. Your process is

is your in a sense discovering the story with the process. From all your experience in doing what you do, what can you tell those people? Like, is AI going to help them? Is there a way that

they can use it that it's going to help them? What do it So, if you want to be

them? What do it So, if you want to be an author to make a living, you have to write the stories that readers want to read, not the stories you want to write.

Yeah. If you want to write the stories you want to write, write them, but manage your expectations when it comes to earning from them. Understand that

the story that you love or the world that you love may not be marketable. But

also, the markets change. So, it may not be marketable right now, but in 6 months that thing could be cool. So, write it and maybe hang on to it and watch the

market and release it at the right time.

Huh. Huh. If you want to be an author that makes a living from writing, you cannot write what you want to write because the books are not for you. So, I

I understand what you're saying and I and I'll try to Manage your expectations. It's hard. Managing the

expectations. It's hard. Managing the

It's It's the secret of life, if you ask me.

Expectation management for everything.

It's a good not only for business, but the relationships and everything. Um but

I would Ideally, I would like like to give them something that they can hold on to. So, let me just say something and

on to. So, let me just say something and let me know what you think. So, for the story side of it, like I have a particular story, something happened to me, etc. Do it and and there's nothing

there's I don't think there's there's anything about your process that makes the Maybe you can write it faster, but but it's not going to make you make more successful about that side. But in the

world building side, actually, what I'm hearing about your process is if you have a world that you build, then you can write these loads of stories in many

different genres without knowing exactly how things are going to happen, but you have the world, the style, the codex, which goes through all of them. And

that's maybe something that's interesting for a world builder. Yeah,

do this process, just have it in a particular world with a particular setting, a particular set of rules, and then you can go wild with it. Learn

Learn to to find the way to take the market into your world. Right. I have got an alien

your world. Right. I have got an alien planet with green fairy winged orcs living on it. What tropes could I bring

into that world that will sell to readers? What feelings can I make the

readers? What feelings can I make the readers buy into that alien planet with?

What's the orc-human romance book that I can that I can write to to help people Yeah. What tropes are popular there? How

Yeah. What tropes are popular there? How

do I find them? Even you know, even if someone You know, often when you have talks about your people particularly start you know, you have you have people who you know, essentially it's a

fictional memoir, right? But Carol

Carol, to your point, you could turn around and go, "This is a story about somebody who was a first responder firefighter in New York City. Now,

here's some elements. There's these

fearful Now, tell me where the readership is out there right now who are looking for that emotional hit or the those tropes or those stories. Is it

about heroism? Is it about family? Is it

about political corruption? What part of your story is out out there waiting for you?"

you?" Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's that bridge.

That's not any different from making a living as a film or TV writer because in fact the bridge between the story and the reader. The hardest part for people at

reader. The hardest part for people at my end of the business has always been that up until now, and you started with this, the gatekeepers had the data. And

they would say, "Oh, no, our sales people are telling us that this isn't selling." Or we had the we had the

selling." Or we had the we had the reports from the last weekend of this movie. Or this is you know, this that

movie. Or this is you know, this that this star has a terrible Q score. And

you just would sit there and go like, "Oh, so I can't even sell my series cuz nobody likes the person I'm writing it for." And then by So, and then you're

for." And then by So, and then you're stuck unless, by the way, there's also And this is this is where I think worth talking about. And it gets back to your point about write your own

book or wait for something. I think most writers are heavily invested in an point that says, "I know better than the audience. I know And And people often go

audience. I know And And people often go like, you know, there's this famous quote from Walt Disney, right? Which is

I knew what the audience wanted before they knew they wanted it." People think that, you know, is there room for that insight in what you're doing? No. I

actually tell my students one of the first things they learn One of the very first things they learn in in my mentorship program, which is Launchpad, which we're running again now in May.

The first thing they learn in Launchpad on day one is, "Please divorce your feelings and leave them outside of my classroom. You cannot be precious about

classroom. You cannot be precious about this. You cannot have an ego about it.

this. You cannot have an ego about it.

If you are going to do this to make a living, right? I'm not even talking

living, right? I'm not even talking about being a six-figure author. I'm

talking about pay the bills every month.

You cannot have that idea that you know better. Everyone knows that that that

better. Everyone knows that that that that movie Mean Girls, right? Stop trying to make fetch happen.

right? Stop trying to make fetch happen.

It's not Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

There's a reason readers love what they love. There's a reason they go back.

love. There's a reason they go back.

There's a reason enemies to lovers is the most searched term on Amazon for the last 4 years. Mhm. Yeah. And and by the way, just just something also that comes to my mind. I think that By the way,

this is super interesting for for for the people on the side of it because I think that's really where it gets a bit strange because you have a tool that basically

says, "I can make you super quick." And people resist it. They don't want to make to do

resist it. They don't want to make to do it super quick. They They want This is the story they have. So, so it's trying to find this this How do I use it with I don't know what to call it, but with with my general vision in mind? I

think it's super super interesting. And

And one thing that's also comes to mind is regarding the You probably know the 1,000 true fans business model. But if

you think about that, um and you have a world and you think about these fans of this world, they might like different things, but if I can hook

them to this world by a book that maybe, you know, it's it's romance, what do you say, enemy to lover, what Maybe in the long run I can get them to the hardcore

sci-fi book that is in the middle of this world, but they won't read that if that's the only thing that I have.

That's not how they're going to go.

Exactly what you have just said. Now,

that is what trope mapping is. I have a seed trope that will run through my whole series, right? I actually got three core tropes that will be in every

book in the series. Why? Trope number

one exposes me to the biggest audience possible. Trope number two builds the

possible. Trope number two builds the conflict of my story. Trope number three gives me a unique twist. Once I overlap those three audiences, I can make the

enemies to lovers love the orcs. He

might not have been an orc reader to start with, but because I've taken two tropes that he loves, I've taken enemies to lovers and stuck together and made it an orc. Now, he'll read the orc book.

an orc. Now, he'll read the orc book.

It's a gateway drug. Exactly.

So, They don't buy books, they buy feelings.

But when people show up for for your your classes and when you talk to them, what's the first thing they need to unlearn about how they think about AI

and working with AI? They have to lower their expectations, right? They're not

going to get a perfect book from AI.

They're not going to get a perfect story from AI. They're probably going to get a

from AI. They're probably going to get a very shitty first draft that they need to edit.

That's That is the one thing I start with. I'm like, "Lower your

with. I'm like, "Lower your expectations." The other one I always

expectations." The other one I always open with is, "You have to write to market." That million books to two

market." That million books to two people isn't going to happen. Doesn't

matter how special you think you are.

You have to understand writing to market. And the other thing is

market. And the other thing is AI changes every single day. If you try to learn everything, you will do

nothing. Pick one thing, learn it,

nothing. Pick one thing, learn it, master it, and work with it. You don't

have to have every tool as it comes out every day. I took one look at

every day. I took one look at antigravity and was like, "No, thank you.

Not good time to learn that this week.

I'm out." Claude and me are quite happy.

By the way, I just want to dive into that for 2 seconds cuz yes, I may If you all know, Claude and I have a very very happy relationship. Are you setting your

relationship. Are you setting your things Are you setting your books up in Claude projects? How How are you

Claude projects? How How are you organizing your files for Claude? I

create a project for the series and everything for that entire series is in one project. Each book I start the

one project. Each book I start the series foundation, all the outlines on one chat, all of the beat sheets on one chat, all of the characters on one chat.

Documents to project file. Then we write chapter by chapter. Once we have all the chapters, they the full book gets put in the project files and we start the next book chapter by chapter. So, I use

project files a lot. I use co-write a whole heap because it just makes sense to build a skill and let it do things while you're busy. Oh my god. You're

You're missing So, Claude Yeah, co-write is doing a lot of the editing for you, a lot of the combining the the notes you get from Marlowe. So,

Marlowe. So, it takes the Marlowe notes, it generates the dev editor reports, it generates the dev editor prompts, and then I built a skill where it will go and do the rewrites one at a time in the project

file for me.

We'll love it.

What the biggest misconception people have, Coral, about what you do? That I

So, wait, don't the word the internet used was grift by selling classes, right? My classes are A, super cheap,

right? My classes are A, super cheap, right? I have been teaching writing

right? I have been teaching writing since 2013, since before AI. The only

difference is we changed the classes to incorporate AI, and I actually marketed them and went from teaching live classes in my dining room to teaching online.

Like, that's all that changed. If I was a grifter, I would not wake up at 2:00 every damn morning to teach people. I

would record it and sell them a recording. My classes are live. Okay?

recording. My classes are live. Okay?

Why? Because how many recorded classes do you have on your hard drive that you've never watched?

Yeah. Right. If it's a live class, there's an accountability. You don't

want to be the only person who doesn't show up, doesn't answer the ask the questions, doesn't have the homework done. Live learning I find far more

done. Live learning I find far more effective in keeping people motivated. I

The results I've seen from my students.

That's misconception number one.

Misconception number two that the whole world seems to think is that I'm not a real author. Before AI, I had written

real author. Before AI, I had written and published 96 novels myself by hand, the old way, with an editor and another

editor and a formatter and the rewrites and rereads and types until I had such bad carpal tunnel in both hands that the doctor was like, "We can chop them off."

[laughter] So, I'm very much I came into AI from publishing. I was already running my own

publishing. I was already running my own publishing house. I had five pen names

publishing house. I had five pen names that I was already managing. I wanted to see what was possible. If you take away the hate, you take away the fear, you

take away the panic, and you embrace the thing, right? I

embraced the devil, I invited it all the way in, I leaned in hard. I wanted to see what was possible. What was

possible? 21 pen names, 216 novels, high six-figure earnings in 9 months

with not one paid ad, right? I relied

purely on rapid release, newsletter marketing, and lead magnets. There was

no paid advertising until we reached six figures. That was the rule when I set up

figures. That was the rule when I set up the experiment for myself that only if this AI baby earned six figures, then I would start investing in paid ads, and only on the very best pen names. Got it.

So, before I just want to make sure we get this part into the podcast. How can

people find you and find your classes and find your book?

They can find me on www.plotters.com,

coralheart.ai, coralheart.com, Facebook. If Reddit unbans me, I'll come

Facebook. If Reddit unbans me, I'll come back to Reddit.

Um they can join us on the 1st of April.

I have a free class. It's the first time I've ever offered a free class. I have

an open free class on the 1st of April anyone who wants to sign up on my workflow, on how I do it. Come and learn and come and see how it works.

Open to all, 1st of April. It's not

April Fool's joke. It was just only day in my calendar that was open. Those are

the places they can find me. If they're

interested in the Authorhythm tool, Authorhythm.ai, it only has one R in it.

Uh Authorhythm.ai, you can sign up to the waitlist to be in the next batch of betas let in and to be notified of when we go live with the rhythm machine.

That's where everyone can find me. Well,

why I embraced AI was I've been here a long time.

Uh you know, as you said, the book and this is true for for everything where people are creating with AI, it belongs to the reader or the listener or the participant, the consumer, whatever you

want to call them. And, you know, if if this thing I I love the fact that you waited until you got to six figures before you even bought an ad because basically, I think what you were saying

to yourself is, "If there's no audience for this, I'll stop." But then there is an audience for it, and it's an audience that, by the way, for a publisher to

say, "Oh, AI's finding the audience and telling you what to do." That's what they do.

That's [laughter] their job. And so, AI is kind of just putting them out of business unless they can kind of figure out what to do.

have the same data they have. Yeah. And

that goes back to gatekeeping. That goes

back to gatekeeping.

Two small things that I think really showed. One of them is

showed. One of them is we don't have any personal problem with nimwits with keyboards because a lot of the subreddit is nimwits with keyboards, so we don't we don't want to I meant the ones sending death threats. I meant the

ones who feel like I thought you meant the people working at publishing houses.

I thought you meant people working at publishing houses, so So, so you know that that in the two the time the New York Times went live that Sunday to the

same time on the Monday night, I had received over 10,000 death threats.

Jeez. 10,000?

That was just the death threats. I

didn't count the people telling me to unalive myself or die slowly or the ones harassing my children online or bombing my social media or being mad that I

didn't engage on social media. That hate

that hate is more problematic than AI is ever going to be. That's sad.

We we we experience it as well, not in that volume. I'm feeling that I'm

that volume. I'm feeling that I'm what what there's to I'm looking forward to that someday.

You Not Not Not maybe pretty sooner than you think, Fred. Maybe sooner than you think. And one last thing, just one last

think. And one last thing, just one last thing, I think it's if shortly, but because I think a lot of what you said, like from a lot of like if I can I don't want to summarize your message as lower your

expectations. I think it's it's it's a

expectations. I think it's it's it's a good message, but it's Is there something besides lower your expectation, which which is true, that is more I don't know if to call it positive, but more

inspiring that you can give? Learn.

Learn your craft. Learn how to talk craft to the AI. Learn about story structure. Learn about the market. Learn

structure. Learn about the market. Learn

about voice. Your voice is your golden ticket, right? Every piece of writing

ticket, right? Every piece of writing that AI spits out sounds like this.

There is no rhythm or cadence. That

comes from your voice. Protect your

voice. Understand your voice. Learn how

to put your voice back in to what AI gives you. Switch Switch the idea that

gives you. Switch Switch the idea that AI should write like you and say, "I'm going to take what AI has written and make it sound like me." Editor

mentality. Yes. Much better. Coral, this

was fabulous. Unless there's a This was so great. Thank you so much for being

so great. Thank you so much for being part of this.

[music] Writing [music] with AI.