Making Millions as a Christian w/ Lecrae

When most people hear the name Lecrae, they think Grammy Awards, hit records, cultural impact, and one of the most recognized voices in Christian hip-hop.

And all of that is true.

But today is not about Lecrae the artist. Today is about Lecrae the

artist. Today is about Lecrae the business owner, the entrepreneur, the multi-millionaire who's had to steward fame and fortune,

and the good and the bad and the ugly that comes with [music] that. Look,

you've heard plenty of things about Lecrae the music man, the family man, the faith man.

But we're going to see another side of him. Lecrae the businessman.

him. Lecrae the businessman.

[music] The man who built companies, the man who made major financial moves, the man who created wealth, all while keeping his

faith intact and his family, too. Today,

we're going to unpack the principles behind Lecrae making millions as [music] a Christian.

Welcome to the Stewardship Coach podcast with yours truly, Lee Jenkins, where we help the financially frustrated to the extraordinarily wealthy learn how to

make, manage, and multiply money God's way.

So if you're looking for practical, faith-based wisdom on business, finance, [music] and stewardship, you're in the right place. Now,

right place. Now, let's get into today's [music] episode.

[music] [music] What's up, Lecrae?

What's going on?

It's good to see you, man. Good to be here.

Welcome to the podcast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's so good to have you, man. I am just thinking about when we first met, probably five or six years ago, during the pandemic. And I'll never forget

the pandemic. And I'll never forget that, man. I had been a fan of yours for

that, man. I had been a fan of yours for so many years. And then when I met you, man, I said, "Man, this dude look like he could play in the NBA, man." You were You were tall. You looked like an athlete. You looked like a wide

athlete. You looked like a wide receiver, man, who I wanted to shut down. Cuz Cuz see, I played a little

down. Cuz Cuz see, I played a little ball back in the day.

So we've heard. So we've seen.

You didn't look like a typical hip-hop artist.

Yeah.

But man, you've had a tremendous impact on my life and many others.

Mhm.

So tell us about when we met during the pandemic, all the racial unrest. I think

there were some controversy surrounding you at that time.

Mhm.

Uh some people who uh had kind of canceled you.

Mhm.

And you were going through some things personally professionally ministry-wise.

Yeah.

Uh talk to us about that.

Yeah, that was a very um That was an interesting time.

Uh during that time period um my faith compelled me to speak up for people who I felt didn't have a voice,

who were being uh mistreated um and were essentially being racially profiled and uh to the point of being killed.

Mhm.

And And I felt it necessary to speak up on behalf of these people. I

did not realize how divisive um standing up for people was going to become.

And um you know, there were a a large swath of my fans who

decided that my convictions were um were for them too political.

Mhm. I didn't see them as political. I

saw them as biblical.

Um, but as politics and faith started to merge, um, I think that's the only view they could see things through.

And so for them, they said, "Oh, he's being political. I don't want anything

being political. I don't want anything to do with him."

Um, and I was just attacked vish- viciously online. Um, lost a lot of of

viciously online. Um, lost a lot of of supporters.

Um, there was one show that I remember having where there was probably 3,000 people showed up the year before. And

then after, it was like 400 people showed up. So, it was a pretty tough

showed up. So, it was a pretty tough time.

And just I just needed some time to process. And by the grace of God,

process. And by the grace of God, running into you, who was more seasoned, wise, and had been through so many things,

um, I could see you as a voice during that time period. And then come to find out you're a voice in in in a mentor in so many other ways.

I remember those those times, man. It

was really tough, um, for a lot of people just navigating through through not only the pandemic, but again, the racial unrest, the political sensitivity,

um, people misunderstanding folks, and then you were just trying to stay alive, you know, because this this crazy pandemic. Well, did that hit you

pandemic. Well, did that hit you financially? I mean, when you stand up

financially? I mean, when you stand up for your principles and your values, and you are a public figure, you are a celebrity, you make your money from the

public, you know, how did that hit you?

And did you ever think about maybe I shouldn't, you know, be so bold because it might hit my bottom line.

It actually, absolutely. Um,

I have I I I had I hadn't considered it was going to affect me financially until it did.

Yeah.

Um I was very fortunate that I had a financial advisor who years prior was an advisor to a lot of pro

athletes.

And what he told me was he said, "Hey, a pro athlete has an a window of earning."

And similarly, so does an artist. And so

you need to think of your earning window. So I was already kind of

window. So I was already kind of preparing for an end to my earning window. It just hadn't happened. So I

window. It just hadn't happened. So I

was I was preparing in some other ways, investing and and altern- alternative investments and different things, real estate, different things like that. So

when it did hit, um I was fortunate that I had thought of this time period. You know, I didn't expect it to come like this.

Um but it did dry up a lot of my like just the income that I was functioning off of. And so I had to, you know, lean

off of. And so I had to, you know, lean on savings. I had to lean on my salary.

on savings. I had to lean on my salary.

Thank goodness I made a salary uh from, you know, my business. But

yeah, the that ancillary concert income, oh, it took a dip. And did I want to be quiet? I didn't think I should have been

quiet? I didn't think I should have been quiet. But I didn't think it was going

quiet. But I didn't think it was going to be that crazy, either.

Man, it was crazy. So, that's

interesting that you compared your career, or at least your financial advisor, the way he advised you was similar to one who would advise a professional athlete because you have a certain

amount of time to make a certain amount of money. But in the entertainment

of money. But in the entertainment business, a lot of people think that they can do that forever. Because, you

know, an athlete, I mean, we know, you know, that shelf life is very short. And

then you got the possibility of injuries. But with a lot of

injuries. But with a lot of entertainers, they don't look at it like that.

Right. Because they figure they can sing, they can rap, they can act the rest of their life. Yeah.

How did that shape how you handled your money? Okay, as it was coming in, were

money? Okay, as it was coming in, were you like, you know, splurging and like, you know, thinking it's going to always be this way? What was your mindset?

Well, I didn't grow up with a lot of money.

So, I grew up with a single mother and she was doing her best to survive. And

she had, you know, struggled financially and you know, I think when people start off without money, they move in two different ways. Either they move in in a

different ways. Either they move in in a way that says, "I'll never have this again, so I'm going to go crazy." Or

"I'll never have this again, so I'm going to hoard it."

Yeah. [laughter]

And so, I aired toward hoarding and I'm not saying either one are right. I'm

just saying that was the the way I would lean was toward the hoarding because I was afraid that I was going to be broke again. Um so, when my advisor told me

again. Um so, when my advisor told me that, it just like, oh, no. I'm not. I don't

know when this can end. So, I I I you know, I was very fortunate to have I mean, even to this day, I've been doing music 20 years.

Um but the window was like 3 years and I and I was very fortunate to go past that. So, I every year past three, I was

that. So, I every year past three, I was like, I could be this year. Could be

this year. I don't know. I don't know.

Um so, because of that, I was always thinking about what I needed to do and what steps I needed to take.

So, you didn't look at yourself as just an artist. You looked at music as the

an artist. You looked at music as the music business. Meaning, like it was a

music business. Meaning, like it was a business. A lot of people just look at

business. A lot of people just look at the art side of it. How did you handle the business side? I mean, were you Did you consider yourself savvy as a business person when you first got into

the music business?

So, I I I I didn't I didn't really know much um what I a lot of what I learned I learned because I was forced to.

So, when I first got into the the music business um I had the opportunity to be taken advantage of. The the beautiful part

advantage of. The the beautiful part about it was the labels didn't want me. Right?

Because when I first started making music we went to the hip-hop labels cuz we thought, you know, we had some supporters and they said, "Man, this is taking hip-hop by storm. Nothing's like

this."

And the hip-hop labels said, "This is too gospel. You should go to the gospel

too gospel. You should go to the gospel label." So, then we went to the gospel

label." So, then we went to the gospel labels and the gospel label said, "This is too hip-hop. Go to the hip-hop label." So, we were in this unique

label." So, we were in this unique position where there was nothing for us.

So, we had to uh just figure it out on our own and do it all independently. And that meant like taking every small step and

learning every detail of What is a UPC code? And And And, you know, What is

code? And And And, you know, What is bookkeeping? And how does How do all

bookkeeping? And how does How do all these particular things work? And, you

know, you're talking about a kid who's fresh out of college and I'm just having to learn all of this stuff on the fly.

Um I had never been to an attorney's office. I didn't know an attorney. So,

office. I didn't know an attorney. So,

you know, the concept of having to meet with an attorney was beyond my mind. And

so, I was very fortunate that the church world was very well resourced and would send me people that I needed to have discussions with and and have conversations.

Wow. Well, take me back to your childhood. Those

childhood. Those those experiences, those people who shaped you as a financial steward, as a

business person. How did you view money

business person. How did you view money as a child? Was it scarce?

Uh Were you able to buy pretty much what you wanted to buy? And how do you think your childhood shaped you as a businessman?

Um [clears throat] my mother raised me, you know, I was it was a stern household in terms of finances, in terms of, you know, she was

like, I don't have a lot. So, you know, I can't do the above and beyond things.

You won't have the new Nikes that all of your friends are going to have. I mean,

when it came to like something simple as Chuck Taylors, I had fake Chuck Taylors in the eighth grade. So, that's how That's how bad it was.

man.

[laughter] So, what what what my mother did instill in me is a work ethic.

Yes.

And so, from a very young age, I understood if I want something, I'm going to have to work for it. I was not afraid of work. I I was not under the the the thought process that it's just

going to happen for me. And um so, I worked very hard. I was always hustling.

I think the entrepreneurial side of me came as a kid because I realized I've got to go mow some lawns, I've got to go wash some cars, shovel some snow,

whatever it takes to make this money. Um

I worked as a I wasn't a paperboy, but I would get people to subscribe to the newspaper.

Younger audience may not know what a newspaper is.

That's right.

But I had to get people to subscribe to the newspaper. I would sell candy. I

the newspaper. I would sell candy. I

would go to the dollar store with extra money I had, buy candy for a dollar, and resell it for $2.

Uh you know, door-to-door. So, I was just always thinking entrepreneurial as a kid. Now,

a kid. Now, my my mother was was in a relationship with the guy, and he was pretty financially savvy, and and

he gave me some tips. I don't think he understood that they stuck. But as a teenager, he told me it was very simple. He said, "Your money

is a table with four legs, savings, investing, um your your spending or checking, and your emergency.

Wow.

And that's what he taught me as a as a teenager. So, I was always like, okay, I

teenager. So, I was always like, okay, I got to have a money to save, I got to have money for an emergency, I got to have money to invest. I didn't know what investing was, but I was like, I need to

invest it. And then I got a money I I

invest it. And then I got a money I I spend, or you know, an emergency spending, savings, and investing. And he

told me that, so I always had this concept of do I have my four legs at all times. And this is like a 16, so that

times. And this is like a 16, so that stuck with me, and I just built off of that.

Man, that is great advice, man. Yeah. I

wish I'd heard something like that when I was a teenager. Yeah. But that's

really awesome. What did you want to be when you were a teenager? When you

thought about your future, did you think about this, um, celebrity artist, hip-hop artist, uh, m- multimillionaire,

um, was that a vision of yours, or did it just kind of happen and fall into place?

Yeah, I fell in love with the craft of entertainment, right? So, I love music,

entertainment, right? So, I love music, I love acting. I actually wanted to be an actor.

Yeah.

So, that was my first love was acting.

Um, I did music as well, but I got a full scholarship, uh, for performing arts, for acting. You know, that's what I

for acting. You know, that's what I wanted to do.

Um, the money part, I don't think I considered that what I did professionally was going to provide for me. I was always like very practical. So, my mind, I was

very practical. So, my mind, I was always thinking, what's my backup plan?

What's my backup plan? What do I Um and and I didn't have an aspiration to have more money until I was exposed.

So, I'll never forget, I was in Dallas, Texas, about 18 years old, and um I remember driving through this neighborhood over by uh SMU.

And I looked at these houses and I said, "Whoa!

I didn't know this existed."

Yeah.

You know, and I was like, "This is crazy."

crazy." And um and I and it was a guy outside and he was uh uh walking his dog and I just said, "Excuse me, sir. I I'm sorry.

Can I just ask you a question?"

And he was like, "What's going on?"

And I said, "How do you get to live in a house like these?"

And he said, uh "You work hard and make some good investments." And

there was that word again, investment.

Man.

I was like, "What is that What is that?"

And so I went and um grabbed The Wall Street Journal. Didn't

know what I was reading. I was 18 and I was like, "I just got to figure this out some kind of way. Whatever this is, I need to figure this out so I can live in this neighborhood."

this neighborhood." Man. So, that just triggered something

Man. So, that just triggered something in you, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, um you wanted to be an actor. Mhm.

Um let's go back a little bit more into your childhood.

Yeah.

You lived in a lot of different cities.

I I think I read Dallas, San Diego, Denver. Why were you Why was your family

Denver. Why were you Why was your family moving around so much?

Well, when I was I was born in Houston.

Okay.

Um my father worked for UPS and uh him and my mother got married after she got pregnant with me. They

were very young, uh early 20s.

Um while at UPS um a lot of his counterparts kept getting hired or um I'm sorry.

Promoted.

promoted before him.

And he and he felt it was racial, but he couldn't prove it. And he he asked a woman after being there for a for a while, "Hey, I've been doing this longer than most people and they're getting promoted above me."

And she said, "You should just be happy to have a job."

Wow.

And so that sent him spiraling because he felt like there was a ceiling he was never going to get past. And uh that spiral turned him into using his job to to sell drugs.

Mhm.

And he was selling drugs, and then he started using the drugs he was selling, and then after using the drugs, he became an addict. And that created tension in my household, of course, and my and uh they split up. My mother

literally had to escape.

And so um So, now we're move we're moving to wherever family was, because she's young, she's in her early 20s, and just needs support.

And my um grandmothers, she's had different husbands, but her husbands were in the military. So, wherever they were stationed is kind of like where we would end up going. So, they're oh, there's a base in Colorado, we're going

to Colorado. There's a base in San

to Colorado. There's a base in San Diego, we're going to San Diego.

That's how you got there.

That's exactly what was happening. So,

we were just staying wherever there was family.

Wow. Yeah, you needed I guess she needed that support system.

That's right.

Man. So, uh you wanted to be an actor, didn't grow up around a lot of money, but you had a uh a mindset was developing, though.

That's right.

Because these words like investing and uh saving, That's right.

and managing uh money. So, uh tell me about your faith journey during that time. I mean, did something happen uh

time. I mean, did something happen uh that kind of got you on this faith trajectory?

Yeah, you know, I was um I I I was a a very smart kid, Mhm.

but but rowdy, rambunctious, always getting in trouble. I was bored very easily. And I had a lot of negative

easily. And I had a lot of negative influences. The only men in my family

influences. The only men in my family were like uncles who were you know, they were in gangs, or they were just neighborhood guys, and um I

didn't have a model, you know, to follow after. So, I didn't know what I was

after. So, I didn't know what I was supposed to do.

And um it got me into a lot of trouble.

I got brought home by the police, you know, often as a kid. Um and then by the time I was a teenager, um I really wanted to get my life together. You know, I was seeing friends

together. You know, I was seeing friends go to jail. I was seeing people, you know, people getting pregnant, girls getting pregnant in high school, and I was like, I want to be better. I just

didn't know how. And I was like, how do I get better? How do I not succumb to this? So, I said,

this? So, I said, you know, after a lot of trial and tribulation, I'm going to go to church.

So, I was a 17, I said, let me go to church. And I sat in there as a

church. And I sat in there as a 17-year-old by myself cuz I wasn't raised in church. My mother was, but she had such a negative experience because, you know, it was a very, um, legalistic

church environment. So, she couldn't

church environment. So, she couldn't wear makeup, she couldn't go to sporting events, she couldn't wear pants. And so,

she said, I'm not raising my kid in that. And so, so we didn't go to church

that. And so, so we didn't go to church much. So, I said, well, this is the

much. So, I said, well, this is the grown-up mature thing to do. I'm going

to drive myself to this little storefront church. And I sat in the

storefront church. And I sat in the church. And, um, after service, this

church. And, um, after service, this woman comes up to me and she says, uh, uh, are you saved?

Man.

And I And I didn't know what that word meant. Cuz I didn't I hadn't heard I

meant. Cuz I didn't I hadn't heard I didn't know the church language. And so,

I just looked at her and I said, uh, no.

And, uh, the look of horror on her face was like, what did I say wrong?

Mhm.

And she just said, "Look, can I pray for you?" And I said, "Sure." She prayed for

you?" And I said, "Sure." She prayed for me. But I I it stuck with me that

me. But I I it stuck with me that something, whatever I said, bothered her so much she had to pray for me.

And um the next year I got into college and I was on campus and they had all these little like this this clubs the the club fair.

And I didn't know anybody at the school except one girl that I, uh, had known in the past. And she said, "Hey, you should come to our Bible study."

And I said, I'll I'll I don't know anybody. I'll go wherever, you know? And

anybody. I'll go wherever, you know? And

I go to the Bible study and I see Christians. I'm like, oh, I didn't know

Christians. I'm like, oh, I didn't know there were young Christians. Like, look

at this.

They invited me to a a conference called Impact here in Atlanta.

Yeah.

I get to Atlanta, my mind is blown because I'm You remember what year that was?

98, 99.

Okay.

Yeah. So, I remember seeing I think uh my goodness, there were so many people there.

Hayman Cross, Eddie Long, um you know, uh the the sermon that actually hit me was by a pastor from North Carolina named James White.

And I had never heard the gospel.

Mhm.

And it was like it was the scales just fell off my eyes and I said, "I want this.

This is the change I was looking for."

And from that moment on, it was like I was a new person.

That's amazing. I used to speak at those conferences. It was in the early

conferences. It was in the early 2000s.

Okay.

I've never seen that many college students black college students who loved the Lord.

You and me both.

Oh my god, it was incredible.

It was incredible.

I didn't know it existed.

Wow.

Yeah.

So, that just uh changed your life. That

that whole experience.

Changed my life. Yeah, I was never the same after that.

So, which came first, your uh entrance into the uh hip-hop world Yeah.

or you meeting the woman of your dreams?

So, okay. Which Which came first or or were they kind of simultaneous?

So, that that's the funny part.

Um I get to the University North Texas.

I'm on a acting scholarship.

Mhm.

There's not many opportunities to act.

But a guy there who was a a student named his name was Art Hooker and he was he would throw plays.

But he was a Christian.

Mhm.

And so they these plays would have these subtle gospel moments in them. But I

didn't know that. I just wanted to act.

So, you know, I auditioned and he said, "Yeah, you can be in this play." I'm a freshman.

And I'm in this play and he goes to the same Bible study that the girl had invited me to.

So, I said, "Oh, I'll come back to the Bible study." And in in that Bible study

Bible study." And in in that Bible study um it's just like a group of young black people and after Bible study they would do like a little cypher, little freestyle. And I was

like, "Oh, they rap?

I I've been rapping since I was 10. I

can do this."

I didn't know Jesus, but I was like, "I can figure out how to make Bible and disciple rhyme." And so, I just started

disciple rhyme." And so, I just started rapping and they were like, "Wow, this guy's pretty good." And um you know, I I didn't have

good." And um you know, I I didn't have any affirmation. You know, my dad had

any affirmation. You know, my dad had left. Uh I didn't know anybody on campus

left. Uh I didn't know anybody on campus and so, just getting affirmed in this community was pretty cool. One of the people who stood around watching me rap

at that Bible study was my wife. And so, she was there as well,

my wife. And so, she was there as well, watching me as an 18-year-old kid who didn't know Jesus, but just trying to figure this thing out. And so, it was all kind of happening at the same time.

And then when I get to this conference, I see a group of rappers, Christian rappers named Cross Movement.

And I was like, "I didn't even know you could do this." And so, now I'm just like, "Oh, I'm doing this. I'm doing

this." Um and so, now I'm a Christian. I

don't My wife and I aren't dating, but we're really good friends. And I'm

skipping class now in the music lab at the college writing songs and making beats. And I'm like, "Yo, I think I love

beats. And I'm like, "Yo, I think I love this more than the acting stuff." And uh and I just said, "Nah, I think this is what I need to be doing."

Wow.

Yeah.

So, man, you found your calling, man.

sure.

It's kind of a uh combination of uh romance cuz you you met Yeah.

your wife to be.

Your faith life was taking off.

Mhm.

And then you found your calling as it relates to you your passion. You thought

it was acting, but it was really uh rapping, being in the hip-hop world.

And speaking of that, how do you know I've always been intrigued by guys like you. How do you know you have a talent

you. How do you know you have a talent when it comes to to rapping, man? I

mean, cuz you know, if everybody knows they can sing, Yeah.

you know, and then you get that acknowledgement, maybe you sing at church or or something like that.

Mhm.

Um when did you know that you could that you were good at this?

So, I knew probably around 13 that I was good at it. I enjoyed it.

it. I enjoyed it.

Yeah.

And as a kid, I would write raps and do raps in the lunchroom and all that cool stuff as a kid. It was fun.

Wow.

I had a little rap group um like around 12 with some kids in my elementary school and and it was fun. We

thought we were good, but we didn't we no way to know. The when I knew I was good is I transferred schools in eighth grade. So, I had gone to two so many

grade. So, I had gone to two so many different high schools and middle schools, all the moving around. But, I I had transferred schools in the eighth grade.

And um somebody had heard I could rap.

Mhm.

And so, they said, "Oh, the new kid can rap. We got to see him battle Charles."

rap. We got to see him battle Charles."

Cuz Charles was the resident rapper at the school and everyone's like, "Nobody beats Charles in a battle. Nobody can

beat Charles." So, now after school it's like this match-up, you know, and it's like and and I'm like, "I'll you know, why not? I'll do it." And and so, I had

why not? I'll do it." And and so, I had a couple raps that I had written.

And I remember sitting there and it's me and Charles and Charles does his rap and then I'm like, "That was it?"

I was like, "That was it." So, now I'm you know, I'm 13. I'm cracking my knuckles and I'm like, "Slithering like a snake in the grass, taking care of you, your crew, you got to know it. I'm

just eating them alive. And the crowd just goes, "Oh my goodness."

And I In that moment, I was like, "I'm pretty good at this. I'm pretty good at this."

this." Man, I love stories like that, man. You

were about 13 or so?

Yeah.

Man, that is amazing.

Yeah.

So, um you leave college, and what do you do after that? I mean,

after that? I mean, because now you got a you're in love by this time. I don't think you were

this time. I don't think you were married yet.

No, so the funny thing is we were just great friends. We didn't get married

great friends. We didn't get married until a few years after I graduated college. But, what had happened Well,

college. But, what had happened Well, this is what This is what actually happened.

While I'm in college, I'm serving in campus ministry now.

I've I've become a believer, and the next 4 years of my life, I'm just trying to figure out how to walk, right? I

mean, you know, college student is tough.

Cuz in the summer times and Christmas breaks, you go home, and everyone's going to the club, and you're like, "Am I missing out?" And so, there was a there was a lot of like going back and forth and ping-ponging. And, um I really

had to put my flagpole in the ground and say I want to be serious about this.

And um and I moved uh after I graduated college, I I um would volunteer at the juvenile detention center. So, I

moved close to the detention center, and I started to um you know, just rap for those kids on the on the weekends.

And um I was working for Comcast in the marketing department. I was a I was a

marketing department. I was a I was a marketing coordinator. So, I I ended up

marketing coordinator. So, I I ended up getting my degree, and I went into marketing. So, I'm I'm you know, I'm at

marketing. So, I'm I'm you know, I'm at this this company, and I'm sitting in board meetings, and I'm writing raps.

You know, I'm I'm I'm I understood the concept of marketing, and it wasn't it was very fairly easy to me. So, I

learned I had a knack for that.

Um but as I'm sitting in the at this company, I'm writing these songs, and I'm like, this is really what I want to

do. But, my mom I'm like she she's like,

do. But, my mom I'm like she she's like, you got a job. You got a salary. You

know, so I'm working on my album at the same time and I'm I'm going to the studio with my salary money and just putting together this album.

And um there's a guy named Will Reed. He was a financial invest advisor, right? This is

the crazy part about it. He was a a young black guy who was volunteering his time to mentor college students on my campus.

Wow.

Financial advisor. So, Will is actually the first person that told me about compound interest and taught me all these particular things. So, by the time by the time I got married, I had money saved up. I was in this great position.

saved up. I was in this great position.

But Will tells me this. He says, um he says, Lecrae, you have a gift.

Mhm.

And I think you should pursue it.

Wow.

Now, to hear this straight-laced financially savvy person tell me Man.

[clears throat] to pursue rapping while I'm working at this marketing gig was like the light bulbs went off.

Because to me it sounded like the most irresponsible thing I could do. But, for

him he's like, you need to do it. And

so, that was kind of the this the the thing I needed. Now, I

couldn't just quit my job because everyone would have had a fit. The the

way God worked it out was my department was getting stripped and everyone was getting laid off.

And they gave me an option. They said I could move to Philly and work in sales or take a 3-month severance pay and be done.

And I'm sitting here thinking, I got 3 months to make this music work.

That's [laughter] right.

I got 3 months to make this music work.

And so I just said, man, I'm going to take the severance pay.

And I went all in and finished up that album and never looked back.

That's amazing, man. Well, how did you get Were you with a record label at the time? I mean, so you went in the studio,

time? I mean, so you went in the studio, spent your own money.

Mhm.

And you had songs. What what what really amazes me about great rappers is is the the the lyrics. I mean, you guys are incredible songwriters as it relates to

how you talk about life and and personal issues. And you put it into

personal issues. And you put it into words and rhymes and and it's just amazing. But then there's a whole

amazing. But then there's a whole 'nother part which is the beat and the music.

Mhm.

So you came in and you you pretty much produce your own.

I had to.

Yeah.

So I had to. I I took, you know, I was making pretty decent money at the time, I mean, you know, for a 24-year-old guy to be making $37,000 a year

It's not bad.

back in that day. My rent was only like $500 and I don't know. I mean, I get free cable cuz I, you know, I work for Comcast. So I

really just had rent and utilities. I

didn't have any real overhead. Um

and so I went to at the time they had Guitar Center and I was like, I got to make beats. I went and bought some

make beats. I went and bought some equipment. I spent maybe $700 on

equipment. I spent maybe $700 on equipment and about things needed to kind of create music and and record music. And um

music. And um and then, you know, studio time was about $50 an hour. So I had to be really uh

you know, I had to know my lyrics. I had

to be right on because when you get in that studio, if you don't have it done, if you don't have it memorized, there's just no room to mess up. You know, today a lot of times rappers have tons of money, they hang out in the studio all day, they just,

you know, I had 4 hours to get this stuff done. And I'm trying to get as many songs done in 4 hours as I can possibly get done. So, um that was

my goal was just to get in that studio and knock this album out. My Now, at the time I had met my now business partner, Ben Washer. And

Ben and I met at a uh sports camp called Kids Across America. He was a um a uh a a leader there. And he knew this music cuz it's all these inner-city kids

from around the nation, and he needed music that would resonate with them. And

so, he was like, "The songs you're making are going to resonate."

And so, we formed our own record label, right? Reach Records. And didn't know

right? Reach Records. And didn't know anything about creating a record label. Um and as I said, I didn't have any networks, I didn't know people, any of those things.

Neither one of us did.

Um we just did it, bootstrapped it.

Yeah.

And went one person at a time, one group at a time. We sent it to that camp, that camp spread it to other people, and then and then I rem- I'll never forget there's a group of

people who came to that camp to listen to the music.

And my wife was going to a church in Dallas. Uh

Dallas. Uh obviously, you know the church, Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship.

Big church, yeah.

And uh and I went on a on a Sunday, and I knew the youth pastor, his name was Von at the time.

And I knew Von, and so I went to go say, "What's up to Von in the youth group?"

And um and they were playing my music.

What?

And I was like, "What in the world is going on?" And another assistant youth

going on?" And another assistant youth leader there said, "Man, this is this guy Lecrae.

Yeah, man, you got to Yeah, he's dope, man. Like, his new album, you got to

man. Like, his new album, you got to listen to it." Cuz it was word of mouth.

There was no like social media. So, he

didn't know I was the rapper.

Amazing.

You know, because I It wasn't my face wasn't popular. Nobody knew who I was.

wasn't popular. Nobody knew who I was.

And so it was kind of cool. Like I was like this music made it all the way to this big old mega church. And and that was like a big moment for me.

Man, that is the epitome of entrepreneurialship.

Mhm.

You've spent your own money.

Mhm.

You had to market yourself. You had to make connections. I mean, nobody came

make connections. I mean, nobody came and gave you money and and you had to take risk. That's that's the big thing.

take risk. That's that's the big thing.

You had to believe in yourself.

That's right.

So when did you hit it big? Like what

happened because I I've always been a fan of hip hop. And see I remember the days when the Sugarhill Gang, man.

Yeah.

When hip hop first came out See, you know hip hop that comes from the song Rapper's Delight Mhm.

by Sugarhill Gang. Cuz they they started off they say hip hop a hibbit a hibby dibby hip hip hop a hibby don't stop.

And so everybody's like, "What is this, man?"

man?" Yeah.

And man, this was in the 1980s, man. The

early 1980s. And I was in college. And

they were sampling these great R&B songs that I loved, man. And so you put these lyrics and these raps with these songs.

And then Quincy Jones, believe it or not, had a album and a song called The Dude.

Oh wow.

Yeah, man. His album was called The Dude. And he had rapping on it. And it

Dude. And he had rapping on it. And it

was before rap I got to check that out.

became popular. You got to check it out, man.

that out.

And so this thing was building steam.

Mhm.

But I never thought it would get as big as it got. So I had always been a fan.

Mhm.

And then I started hearing about this guy named Lecrae. Okay?

But I I didn't I didn't know your music.

And then I was looking at TV. It must It might have been Jay Leno or somebody. It

was a late Jimmy Fallon. That's what it was.

Jimmy Fallon. That's what it was.

Jimmy Fallon.

And they said, "We got Lecrae coming."

And I was like, man, this dude is that big? And I remember checking you out,

big? And I remember checking you out, man.

Yeah.

And I was blown away.

Wow.

So, what happened to get you from the you know you know, selling you know, at the at churches and and

selling CDs and all that to being on a national renowned show, Jimmy Fallon?

Stewardship.

Wow.

I mean, that's really what it is. You

know, I think if you there's there's there's two ways that I believe people attain success, right?

There's God's way and there's the world's way.

Mhm.

Um God's way is man, he just begins to The way I always like it and I I I I say I think of it like like water vessels,

right? You got

right? You got you've got a raft you got a speedboat and a raft is where you're just out here, man. You're just floating. I don't know

man. You're just floating. I don't know where I'm going or how I'm going to get there. Wherever the waves take me, I'm

there. Wherever the waves take me, I'm going.

And then you got a speedboat where you're just like you're going as fast as you can, as hard as you can. Now, the problem with the speedboat is it runs out of gas. And and

a lot of times when you're doing it the world's way, you run out of gas trying to get it as fast as you can. You're

you're you're hustling, you're you're sneaky, you're conniving, you're wheeling and dealing. And that's how the music industry works. That's why you see a lot of people end up in prison or getting taken advantage of.

And but then you also have just a lazy way of people like, well, hopefully it just happens for me. They're just a raft. Like, I'm just really good. No one

raft. Like, I'm just really good. No one

sees me. You know, and then they're mad because no one's come to the hood to find them.

Um and what I've learned is God's way is a sailboat.

Yeah.

A sailboat does take work.

Mhm.

You do have to raise those sails. You do

have to deal with that rudder, but then you've stored in what God has given you and now you're waiting on the wind. And

the wind is God blowing, but you've got to be prepared for God to blow. And if

you're not prepared, well, you you you weren't a good steward. And so for me, it was stewardship. It was

taking care of the relationships. And no

matter what business you're in, you're in the people business. So taking care of people, serving people, building relationships, treating people well. You know, I can't tell you I I

well. You know, I can't tell you I I shook every fan's hand after the show, gladly. Right? And I wasn't sitting you

gladly. Right? And I wasn't sitting you know, I wanted to talk to these people.

I did a million shows. I went

everywhere. I drove my car till it literally caught on fire. Right?

I wasn't overspending. I was spending what needed to be spent. As we started to grow a little bigger, our second year, the money that I would make, I put it

right back into the company.

I put it right back into the company. I

said, "You know what? I was making $37,000 a year working at this company and if if our company made a hundred thousand, I'm still I'm making 37 because I don't This

is what I was surviving off of. I don't

need to go above that."

And I just kept reinvesting in our company, reinvesting in our company and signing different artists and upgrading the the the quality of the mixes and different things like that. You know, you start

paying for more marketing and different things along those lines. It's just It's just an investment. And from there, people begin to trust you, you begin to get your business acumen up, and you

learn how the business works cuz you're working in it and you're working on it at the same time.

And I think what just happened is we just kept getting better.

We just kept getting better and the audience kept getting broader. Wow. And

as we got better and the audience got broader, I think there was just a tidal wave that took place where the outside world was like, "What the heck is going on over here?" I looked up one day

and it was like we had the number one song on Apple Music at the time and all the Nicki Minaj fans were mad at me like, "How Who is this Lecrae guy beating Nicki Minaj?"

Was that an anomaly? That was an anomaly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Man.

Yeah, so I mean that was the number one album on Billboard that year. It beat

Maroon 5, it beat everybody.

But again, it was it was stewardship, you know?

Yeah. So while you were talking, I was thinking of two verses. First

Corinthians, I believe it's 4:2, it says, "It is required in stewards that he be found faithful."

Mhm.

So stewardship, we're all stewards because we all manage what we have. The

issue is are we faithfully managing it?

That's good.

And then Luke 16:10 says, "If you're faithful in a little, you'll be faithful with much. If you're dishonest with a

with much. If you're dishonest with a little, you'll be dishonest with much."

Which tells me that the way to get much is to be faithful That's good.

little.

That's good.

So do you feel like what you're saying is you were faithful in the little?

Yeah, faithful with the little.

Yeah.

Like for sure faithful with the little.

And it but you know, my wife is so like she's a simple woman. She doesn't need much and she was a blessing for me.

Wow.

Because you know, I didn't grow up with much and I'm like, "Well, we got a little excess.

Babe, you know, put some rims on this car." And she's like, "You better not."

Wow.

We We Our college loans aren't paid off.

Mhm.

You're not putting rims on the car.

Man.

You know, and I was like, "Okay, you're right. You're right." And And that's

right. You're right." And And that's just the way she's always been. And so I don't have the wife who's like, "I need 20 pair red bottoms. I need a Rolls-Royce. I need all these things."

Rolls-Royce. I need all these things."

She's She was never like that either. So

um I I It was being faithful with the little. God had entrusted us with a

little. God had entrusted us with a little, and then we were working alongside of disenfranchised people, and it didn't make sense for us to be flaunting that in front of them. It just

didn't make sense. And

so, yeah, I totally agree.

Man, that's so good. So, you end up getting married. You married

getting married. You married Dara.

Mhm.

And she was perfect for you, man, because she did not feed into that materialistic world that you could have gotten caught

up in, is right? Because I'm assuming um did you make money gradually, or did it start coming in where like woah? Like

was there ever a time where it just took a tremendous jump?

Yeah, um we were living in Memphis at the time.

And um I remember, man, we were living in a 700 square foot house. You know, I'm making $37,000 a month.

And um A year or A year, I'm sorry. $37,000 a year. And

um you know I had finally gotten um I had a song called Background.

And Background um was we had cooked it up. It wasn't out yet right?

And so we cooked up the song, and you know, we're we're about to pack up and move to Atlanta, right? So, we're like, all

Atlanta, right? So, we're like, all right, we're going to move to Atlanta.

And I'm like, you know, we'll we'll find somewhere we can afford, and and it's fine. We record Background. We put the

fine. We record Background. We put the song out. We found our place in Atlanta.

song out. We found our place in Atlanta.

And um we were coming from very small means in Memphis. We get to Atlanta, and it's

Memphis. We get to Atlanta, and it's it's a nicer townhouse, you know, in like North Atlanta. It's not nothing fancy.

And Background comes out.

Blows up.

Song is on like the the wild gospel, and all those things, and that.

And and so, this song is one of the most downloaded songs I'd ever had um at that point in time and I remember

you know, getting a royalty check and and looking at it and saying, is this right?

Cuz this is way more. And then

you know, I I was I was making $37,000 a year and I remember my I didn't have a financial advisor per se, but I had someone who was smart and could give me advice.

And I I got a check and it was a six-figure check and I said is this right? What do I do? What what's

going on? Now, I was scared cuz I went to him and I said, hey, I just got a six-figure check in the mail.

Um like I'm scared I'mma lose it. You know,

I'm scared. What do I need to do? I was

ready to just invest the whole thing cuz I was like, I'm scared. I don't want to be broke. You know, I don't I never had

be broke. You know, I don't I never had a six-figure check at one time. What the

heck do I do?

And so that was the the process of like, okay, money's starting to come in at a different scale now and then it just kept growing and growing and growing and

it was kind of like this is scary. I

don't want to get used to this because it could be gone at any minute. That was

kind of my mindset.

Got you.

Wow. So

what were some of the temptations as the money came in? You know

some people say money changes people.

I like to say that money doesn't change people.

Mhm.

Money magnifies Yeah.

amplifies Yeah.

who you already are.

That's good.

So it can bring out things in you that you didn't know were in you Oh, yeah.

because you have choices when you have money and you don't have those choices when you're broke and struggling.

What good came out of you as you started to make money as you started to become a multi-millionaire and to see your wealth and your assets grow?

What good did you see that came out of you? And then what were some of the

you? And then what were some of the things that came out of you that you said "Uh-oh.

Uh-oh.

I didn't know that was deep in there."

lot of uh-ohs. Um the good was that I didn't realize I was a generous person. I didn't realize that you know I

person. I didn't realize that you know I was generous with my time cuz it was all I had.

You know, so and I and I still wouldn't say I'm a generous guy. Other people had to tell me.

And I didn't realize that. You know,

people were like, "Man, thank you for being so generous. Man, thank you for being so generous. Man, thank you for being so generous." And I was like, I didn't know that that I didn't you know, cuz to me I'm like, "Oh, I guess

so." But I I I think I just wanted to

so." But I I I think I just wanted to see other people do well. I wanted to see, you know, uh ministries and organizations and

communities thrive. And um and yeah, I

communities thrive. And um and yeah, I had a soft spot for disenfranchised people and communities. And I just I was like, if I saw something, I was like,

"Babe, can we give to that? Babe, can we put some Are you okay if we You know, because it would it stuff like that would break my heart. I would go on mission trips and I'd be like, "Hey, we could do it. You

know, we we can afford to do this. We

can give to this."

And um and that just became consistent with my character, I think. It It just was like, especially when I started to learn this isn't mine anyway.

This is God's. So, I don't think God minds me helping his people. You know

what I mean? So, that was one of That's the good.

The bad The bad is um [clears throat] there's there's two people that needed therapy, okay, in me.

One is a little boy who was insecure because he didn't have his dad.

Because he would go to basketball games and and his teammates would have their dads in the stands or somebody would bring him some new Jordans, and I never had that.

So, that insecure kid um was magnified, right? And that what can I do

right? And that what can I do to be to be seen as valuable? Cuz I don't feel valuable. So maybe if I buy something

valuable. So maybe if I buy something to add value to me, then I'll be more valuable to the outside world.

So So that was an ugly part. But then

that part of me is also fighting against another part of me. The little boy who grew up in scarcity.

And feels like if he does not have money in his account, he is his security is threatened.

That God is not my security. My bank

account is my security. And so I got to have money in there or I have no security whatsoever. And so this hoarder

security whatsoever. And so this hoarder and this this kid who wanted to buy things to make sure he was valuable were

bleeding out as well.

And so those are two of the the the things that got uglier and I and um you know, just a couple realistic stories.

Um You know, I remember the the hoarder in me is like, "You know, we're not spending a bunch of money."

money." The insecure person in me is like, "Well, we need to spend something."

And so I was like, "I want a Range Rover."

Rover." I wanted for all the wrong reasons though.

Um I want a Range Rover because it'll make me feel valuable. Not because I understand the car how how good and nothing's wrong with a Range Rover, but I didn't have good intentions.

So I'll go buy a Range Rover.

But I don't buy a brand new Range Rover because the hoarder in me is like, "No, we're not."

we're not." So we're going to get a used one that is cheaper.

So I buy this Range Rover cash and I'm riding around in this Range Rover and I'm like, "Oh, I'm the man.

Oh, I made it. I'm in my dream. You see

me. I have arrived.

And uh And man, I I remember driving and I got to this little restaurant and I parked my car at the restaurant and I go inside

and I go inside and I see a guy I know who is a follower of the Lord.

But when I saw him, I didn't recognize him. He was flashy.

him. He was flashy.

He had all his jewelry on, his shades on in the in the building. He had these two girls sitting beside him and I and he was married and I said, "Hey, what what's go And he's like, "Oh, yeah, I divorced her, man. You know, we getting money over here. Da da da da." And I was

like, "Could that be me?"

"That could be me."

And it scared me. And and that was a moment where I was like, "Oh, this is who I have the potential to become."

Yeah.

Man, you were really grounded, man.

So, when I started making money, um I was kind of becoming introduced to this whole um

Bible-based way of looking at your money, okay?

Meaning, God owns it all, not me. I'm a

steward.

The purpose of a steward is to manage it in a way where your owner or master is happy. So, it's not about me making

happy. So, it's not about me making myself happy, even though in the process you can make yourself happy, but it's about making God happy. So, it seems

like time you started making money, you were pretty grounded in some solid biblical principles. Did that come

biblical principles. Did that come through you talking to people or going to churches or where did that come from?

Well, that's a great question. Um

I think if I'm being honest, this is going to sound kind of weird. I

had a unhealthy perspective on money biblically because I was so far on the side of a a poverty theology.

Mhm.

Right? So, I had heard sermons and and and listen, this is not any knock against any of these people.

Mhm.

But, I had heard sermons from a John Piper who said, "Don't waste your life."

Now, I don't think I was his intended audience. He was speaking to an audience

audience. He was speaking to an audience of people who were hoping to build up their retirement plans and go live on a beach and never think about the kingdom of God again.

I'm coming from a community where we don't even know what a retirement plan is.

And so, I took what he was saying very literal without thinking about the context that I was existing in and I was like, "Well, I'm afraid to have money cuz money's going to corrupt me. I don't

want it. It's going to corrupt me. It's

going to corrupt me. It's going to corrupt me. And I I got to be poor and I

corrupt me. And I I got to be poor and I need to give it away. I'll give it all away. Give it all away. Give it all

away. Give it all away. Give it all away."

away." And I and I think I just I I knew the verse that said, "The love of money is the root of all evil." But,

I think I I interpreted as money this.

is the root of all evil.

So, I was scared of it. And I think because I was scared of it, I didn't go too far.

I didn't move too far. It took a while for me to get to a healthy place because especially in Christian circles, the certain Christian circles, if you have any

semblance of wealth around you, it's like, "Oh, look at this guy.

Yeah.

What is he doing?"

And so, man, I would drive a Dodge knowing that I wanted a Range Rover or knowing that I wanted a Mercedes because I was afraid of the criticism that was going to come back on me for stuff like

that.

So, that's kind of the perspective.

All right. So, a couple of words and I want you to just kind of define them in your own way. All right?

And and did you lean that way or not? All right,

first one prosperity theology. Oh, no. Never

prosperity theology. Oh, no. Never

leaned that way.

Never leaned that way.

How do you define it? Or because it was really big in the '80s, '90s, early 2000s.

Yeah.

What do you even think about the word prosperity?

Yeah, I mean prosperity would have made me cringe. The term would have made me

me cringe. The term would have made me cringe at that point in time because to me prosperity gospel was you use God to get what you want.

Yeah.

Right? You don't want God. God is kind of like a stepping stool to get what you want.

Yeah.

And that's how I looked at prosperity gospel. I I If you would have said God

gospel. I I If you would have said God wants me prosperous, I would have been like, get this person away from me Wow.

right now.

Wow.

Yeah.

Amazing.

What about the poverty mentality, which is the other end of that?

Thought it was a noble.

Man.

Thought it was godly.

Struggling people, you thought they were closer to God.

Look at those godly people, man. I wish

I could be more like them, but I unfortunately God's got to work on my heart cuz I just I I I can't give it all away.

Mhm.

You know, to hear somebody wrote a book and it sold 4 million copies and they gave all the royalties away. I was like, man, I aspire to be like that. I wish I could be like that. Knowing I'm the

first person in my family to ever achieve any kind of financial stability.

You know, my mom was freezing credit cards so she wouldn't use them. Uh but I just thought, man, that's so godly.

Wow. So those are obviously two extremes.

Mhm.

Where do you fall now? Or how did you make that adjustment Yeah.

from poverty mentality where struggling giving it all the way Yeah.

was a virtue or at least you thought it was.

Yeah.

Versus prosperity gospel Mhm.

where Jesus is your Santa God.

Right.

is your casino.

Right.

Where everything is about blessing, blessing blessing health wealth uninterrupted.

Yeah.

How did you balance that?

It took time, but I think I began to learn through reading, through talking to older, wiser people that it was a heart issue at the end of the day, right? Like

right? Like like if if if my heart is

wanting to honor the Lord with what I have, well, you can't. I mean, all of us in America is compared to the rest of the world, we're all rich.

Exactly right.

Right? So, so I was so self-righteous and judgmental against people who have more money than me, but even when I was making $37,000 a year, I mean, I still I'm paying for cable, I still sleep on a bed every night, I still got running

water, I still went to the corner store and bought a Snickers bar, and someone would say that's wasteful. Right? How

many pair of shoes do you have in your closet? Right? All you need is one.

closet? Right? All you need is one.

But, I got multiple. So, it was inconsistent. Right? It was really

inconsistent. Right? It was really inconsistent, and I think now where I'm at is is like, man, I look at Abraham in the scriptures, and I'm like, God made him pretty abundant. And then

at the story of the the Israelites digging the wells and everywhere they they land would get taken, and they go dig a well, and there will be water.

It's like God just kept giving them provision.

And and I'm like, God is not anti provision. He's not anti making people

provision. He's not anti making people wealthy. Paul said, I mean, I've

wealthy. Paul said, I mean, I've been content with a lot or with a little.

And so now I'm like, okay.

Well, Lord, if you've blessed me with a lot, it's not it's not it's supposed to flow through me. You know what I mean? And and that's

me. You know what I mean? And and that's the heartbeat that I try to have now.

Man, that's so so good.

So, two things.

What's your biggest financial accomplishment?

The thing that you're most proud of.

Maybe it's an investment, maybe it's a risk you took, maybe something you did and it paid off and you say, "Yeah."

[laughter] But then, what's your biggest financial failure or something that you're not proud of that happened financially? You

say, "Man, I would do that all over again if I had another chance."

Um I had um I you know, I've I've I've I've consistently for years you know, made

at least a million dollars a year, right? Consistently, at least.

right? Consistently, at least.

Um and so, that's been great.

Yeah.

Right? That's a blessing.

Yes.

Um and then I had a year where it was like, okay, we made a lot more than we normally make.

What are we going to do? Right? And

at that point in time I was like, I need to learn about investing more, I need to learn about alternative investments, I need to learn about VC and angel and all these particular things, right?

So, I'm I'm taking the classes and I'm trying to learn how all this stuff works. This is the the the best and the

works. This is the the the best and the worst decision at the same time. So, I'm going to give you both.

Okay.

So, I'm taking all these classes.

Now, mind you, I've always done real estate on the side. I have

some different properties, I've done Airbnbs and rentals and stuff. All

that's been great, it's been helpful.

But now I was like, yo, we're going to go big.

Yeah.

We're going to take some risks, right?

Um so, I'm in this financial investment class, this VC class and and I'm sitting with some guys, you know, um

and they're smart, some guys from Sovereign Capital and they're smart. And

I'm listening to them and they're like, "Well, here's the decision that we're about to make."

And I was like, I'm going to do the same make the same investment. And so we made an investment in the film industry.

Mhm.

And it returned my investment like within 6 months.

Wow.

And it just kept paying and kept paying and kept paying and kept paying. And I

was like, I'm good at this. I know what I'm doing.

I got THIS FIGURED OUT, MAN. I KNOW what I'm doing.

[laughter] You know what I'm doing.

Yeah, I know what you're doing.

You know what I'm doing. And so I'm like, well, shoot. I invested some money over here. It's returned tenfold.

over here. It's returned tenfold.

Mhm.

I'm just going to do the same thing without having those people who really knew what they were doing. I'm like, I know what I'm doing. And man, I started

spreading money like seeds, like I was Elon Musk. And just start throwing

Elon Musk. And just start throwing money. What do you got going on over

money. What do you got going on over there? We got a ice cream truck? Yeah.

there? We got a ice cream truck? Yeah.

What what you got going on over here?

You Okay, I'm going to throw some and I just invest I invested in all kinds of stuff. Exercise equipment, all kind of

stuff. Exercise equipment, all kind of people's ideas. Just just expecting it's

people's ideas. Just just expecting it's all be like this.

And I haven't seen a dime of that money.

Man.

Not a dime.

Not a dime.

Nothing has come back.

Man.

Zero.

Wow.

So, I would say thinking that I know and just throwing money at what I think I know was the biggest mistake. And then

This is this is God's money.

Yeah. And I was like, Yeah.

You know, I didn't I didn't do due diligence. I just was prideful. Like, I

diligence. I just was prideful. Like, I

know what I'm doing.

Money can make you feel proud, prideful. Make

you It can make you feel like you're smarter than what you really are.

That's right.

Yeah, man. And then that sets you up for some big mistakes, you know. Have you

ever made a really big financial mistake, man? Or have Have ever been hit

mistake, man? Or have Have ever been hit financially really hard? Not not in the early days. I mean, well, you know, a

early days. I mean, well, you know, a bad investment or something. And how did it make you feel and what did you learn from that?

Um, I think [clears throat] the biggest the biggest hit for me was COVID. Yeah.

COVID was massive because not only did I take a massive hit in stocks, you know, we lost so much money in stocks.

Um, I also wasn't making money because I wasn't able to do shows, concerts, events, or anything along those particular lines.

And um, and and it put me in a weird position where I didn't realize I had built my business infrastructure off making all that tour money.

And now I'm watching my my, you know, life savings just dwindle lower and lower.

And I was like, oh shoot, this is putting me in a a weird place. Like, I

don't know what's happening. And then on top of that, my record label at the time, like, for whatever reason, streaming started taking a hit.

So now we're not streaming well.

So there's no there's no real income happening in the music industry. I'm not

getting any shows.

And uh, you know, um, my savings is dwindling.

And so it just put me in a really precarious position and I was like, yo, I don't know what I'm doing. And the the the thing the biggest hit, so this is the big hit,

what I had done was I had gone in and bought some apartment complexes in South Atlanta.

And man, I you know, the economy was was was in trouble.

And so people couldn't pay their rent.

And I was in the I had to fix stuff, but I wasn't going to get any money back.

And I mean, people weren't paying their rent at all. So now I'm like millions in the hole for this apartment that I've invested in. I'm not getting any return.

invested in. I'm not getting any return.

All I'm doing is paying.

Wow.

Every month.

Wow.

Just paying.

Mhm.

Paying. So, it was looking bleak. It was

It was scary.

Yeah, I know that feeling.

[laughter] So, what's the future like from a business and even a financial standpoint for Lecrae Moore?

Um What do you see?

You know, honestly from a business standpoint it's building things and selling things, right? Acquiring things and selling

right? Acquiring things and selling things. I think

things. I think David Geffen is a incredible leader in the music and the film industry and I've I've read his book The Operator and essentially that's what business is.

It's It's acquiring things and then being able to sell it for a higher price and then learning how to do that again and again.

Um and so that's kind of what I want to do. But But in doing that I want other

do. But But in doing that I want other people to have opportunities they wouldn't have otherwise had. I love

creating opportunities for people. So,

if I can help let's say a business owner who's been He's got a roofing business forever I can help him have a liquidity moment where it's like, man, let me put some capital in your back pocket. You can go

retire and go do whatever it is that you really want to do.

And now I have this this this business.

Um I don't want to run this business. I

just want to figure out how to make it better. I've got some friends who really

better. I've got some friends who really want to make this business better, put some money in their pocket cuz they're getting paid to learn how to make it better and then I sell it and then put money back in their pocket

and and do that process again and again.

So, that's part of what I'm excited about doing um as a as a business owner and an entrepreneur.

I love it, man.

Yeah.

All right, Lecrae, I want to ask you some questions and I want you to answer them rapid fire, okay? All right.

Business ownership and the risk that comes with it or big fat guaranteed salary?

Salary is tempting and there's a lot of stability, but there's upside with being business owner, going business owner.

I like it.

Yeah. All right.

Digital Bible versus a physical Bible.

I I'm just old school. I enjoy the physical Bible. I use my digital Bible

physical Bible. I use my digital Bible all the time, but I like when I'm really sitting down getting to it, physical.

All right.

Would you rather have time freedom or financial freedom?

[snorts] Yikes.

Uh I feel like that's tough.

I'm going to say time only because if I have time, I can create financial Yeah.

opportunities.

I like that.

Yeah.

Okay.

Control or delegation?

Delegation.

Yeah.

Absolutely delegation.

[laughter] I know what I'm not good at.

Right.

All right. A great credit score or significant cash reserves?

That's tough.

Um I guess it depends on what significant is.

Yeah.

Uh cuz I'll take a terrible credit score if I got a billion dollars in cash reserves.

Oh, that's right.

[laughter] Who cares about a credit score if you got a billion dollars?

That's right.

All right. Last one.

Yeah.

Would you rather make more money or need less money?

I think because I've made a lot of money and that money had to be put in a lot of places,

I'd rather need less money. Sometimes

you make a million and you got to spend 999,000.

Exactly, right. [laughter]

So, I'd rather need less money.

I love it, man. All right, Lecrae. We're

about to wrap up here. I always end our podcast with allowing my guests to ask the Stewardship Coach anything that they

want to ask me, especially in the area of business and finance. So, you know me man.

Mhm.

I'm your friend, I'm your pastor, all right? And I'm a fan.

right? And I'm a fan.

Yeah.

What have you always wanted to ask me?

All right.

You have been a financial advisor.

And now you're a pastor.

Yeah.

People don't think money and pastoral leadership go together.

Yeah.

It gives people the heebie-jeebies.

Yes.

What do you say to calm the nerves of folks who are leery of pastors talking about money?

Great question.

I remind them that the first people Jesus chose to be his disciples were business people.

Mhm.

He didn't go in the synagogue, he didn't go in the temple and say, "I like the way that guy reads scripture, come and follow me." He didn't He didn't say, "I

follow me." He didn't He didn't say, "I like your theological education, come and follow me." He went to fishermen, tax collectors, and he said, "Come and follow me." Peter

like Peter, they were business people.

So, the people who changed the world, who were the the early adopters of the gospel, Mhm.

were business folks.

Mhm.

Okay? Who made an heat a huge ministry impact. So, people who feel a little

impact. So, people who feel a little uncomfortable with me talking about business and finances, especially with my former career, for 25 years I was in

the investment business. I'm just doing what the disciples did. That's all.

Taking what I learned in business, applying it to the most important business in the world, the most important thing in the world, and that

is the the spreading of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's what Peter did, and

Jesus Christ. That's what Peter did, and that's what I try to do.

So, you calling yourself Peter?

Yeah, I'm Peter, man.

[laughter] No, I'm not quite Peter.

Hey, let me say one more thing, one more thing.

The skills that I learned in business, marketing, sales, customer service, operations, it's the same thing I do as a pastor.

Because we have to market ourself, we have to sell, which means when we preach, it has to be done in a way that inspires people, that attracts people, that

excites people.

Same thing I did in business.

Mhm.

In business, my bottom line was to make a dollar.

In ministry, my bottom line is to make a disciple.

That's what's up.

Man's good.

[laughter] He's good.