Making $$$ with OpenClaw

How can you make money from open cloth? Like how can you spin up these OpenClaw instances, these sub-agents, these digital employees that can go out and make you money while you sleep. Is it even possible? Well, in today's episode, I brought on Nick, and he shows a tactical tutorial for how to spin up multiple OpenClaw

machines in a virtual instance, how you can be automating tasks on Upwork and these boring business automations, and how you can actually make money from OpenClaw. If

this doesn't get your creative juices flowing for the future of SaaS, how people are going to make money and how to actually use OpenClaw from not just a cute little use cases, but actually money making opportunities, then I don't know what will. I had such a good chat with Nick. It got

my creative juices flowing. I think it will yours too. And this is, I think, one of Nick's first podcasts. So give him a like and comment to juice him up because he is share that sauce.

I couldn't be more excited to have Nick on the pod. He's one of my go to people when I have questions about OpenClaw. Nick, by the end of this episode, what are people going to learn? Yeah, people are going to learn that OpenClaw is more than just a personal assistant. You can actually deploy this into businesses. You

could drive actual business outcomes, generate revenue off of OpenClaw as an opportunity.

And yeah, we're seeing it on X, like people who are deploying OpenClaw for kind of executives or individuals who are super busy. They're making thousands of dollars, you know, setting OpenClaw up, getting it up and running for these people and managing it for them. So I think there's a huge opportunity here. And yeah, just excited to

for them. So I think there's a huge opportunity here. And yeah, just excited to jump in. Cool. And before we get going, I need you to make a commitment

jump in. Cool. And before we get going, I need you to make a commitment to me and to the person listening or watching, which is I need you not to hold back any sauce. I don't want to know just about the opportunity. I

want to know how are people doing it tactically. And by the end of this episode, what I want is for people to take away, like I want people to know how they can actually make a dollar from this. And is that a commitment, Nick, that you are willing to make to us? Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm not

going to hold back anything. In fact, I think OpenClaw is a tool that allows us to be able to do the things that we have always been able to make money from, like automation with AI, but do it even better.

And I'm going to show you how to get it all set up so you can do that and the wedge to get going. Let's do it. Yeah. So I

guess jumping right in, as far as getting set up with OpenClaw, you can see here, You know, this is Orgo. This is our startup. You don't have to use Orgo to get started with OpenClaw. Just full disclaimer. This is what I'm using. And

what I'm going to do is I have a project here. You can see I have a couple projects. And I have Greg. I set you up a project. I

hope you enjoy your, you know, five computers. And so you can imagine, Greg, let's say you're a business owner and you have a busy life, you know. Um, you got all, you have the podcast going on. You have all these

know. Um, you got all, you have the podcast going on. You have all these businesses you're running, the agency, the idea browser, all this stuff. And you need, you need help automating some stuff. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to come in. I'm scrappy Nick. I'm going to come in and I'm going to help

come in. I'm scrappy Nick. I'm going to come in and I'm going to help automate some things in your, in your business, in your life. Um, you know, as a busy executive and I'm going to get you set up with open clause. So

when you open up a computer here, you can see I have it open. This

is the, the cloud bot, um, computer I made for you. If I actually just type in open claw TUI, this will open up open claw in the terminal. And

you can see I actually already started like, hey, I'm Greg Eisenberg and it's all ready to get set up. And so actually what I could do is I could invite you to this project and then you'd be able to do this as well.

Like in your terminal, you'd be able to spin this up and now you're talking to OpenClaw. So super easy to get set up. Once again, you don't have to

to OpenClaw. So super easy to get set up. Once again, you don't have to use Orgo. You can use whatever you want. You could use, I know Manus just

use Orgo. You can use whatever you want. You could use, I know Manus just dropped their own version of like one click deployment OpenClaw.

Also Kimmy launched their version as well. X is down right now. So we can't actually pull it up on Twitter or anything, but Kimmy launched their version. And so

there's all these options as far as getting started. You could use a Mac mini, whatever. So the key here, Greg, with OpenClaw and actually creating money from it

whatever. So the key here, Greg, with OpenClaw and actually creating money from it is to have the wedge to know what is the specific use case in a person's business that we're going to automate first. Because when you see OpenClaw on Twitter, it's very much a personal assistant. It's exciting. It's fun. But open,

All the demos that go viral, including me, I get it. I'm guilty of this too. All the demos that go viral are a little bit, you know, kind of

too. All the demos that go viral are a little bit, you know, kind of toyish. They're a little flashy. But the real power is in finding the thing

toyish. They're a little flashy. But the real power is in finding the thing that actually, you know, drives business outcomes, saves time for a business, finding that and building the automation around that. So I have something running here. This is my open claw doing looking up products. for a business that I

deployed for, this is a promotional distributorship. And what this is doing is it's looking at products and actually downloading all the product information and then like parsing all that information. There's all these reports it needs to download and then uploading that into a Zoho CRM. So it can essentially, you

know, create a central source of truth for this client. So this is a perfect example here of like actually creating a agent that OpenClaw deploys to be able to automate something end to end. So

just to recap, are we all good so far? Yeah, so a few things I just want to talk about. So one thing is when you showed that Orgo screen, you had like five machines running. So what's interesting is I've got my Mac Mini, going, you know, I've got one instance. So using something like this is cool

because you can have multiple instances going, right? And you can see them all in one screen, in one view. So that's really cool. That was sort of an aha moment for me. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's like everyone, you know, as far as where you deploy your main open cloud, you can see here, I like, I starred the main one. And so that's like, you could have that wherever,

but what people don't realize is open claw can spawn sub agents. And I think this is going to be huge for people who start like right now we're at the phase of having one open claw. It's going to happen quickly. You're already seeing on it on Twitter memes about like, Oh, what if you have a 10 Mac minis or all the Mac studios are being bought out. So this is happening fast

where you're going to want 10 open claws, you know, a hundred open claws. Right

now you can have one open claw and just have it spawn up to, I think eight sub agents in each sub agent could have its own computer. And you

could do this like this is why this is like kind of work or go shines is you can spin up multiple computers for each individual sub agent of your open claw. And in this case here, I had it looking on Upwork for actual

open claw. And in this case here, I had it looking on Upwork for actual things that we could automate with open clause is like a little hack here as far as like, well, I want to make money with open claw. Well, Oh, I don't know any business that I can reach out to that I can automate stuff for. A great place to start is Upwork because there's jobs on Upwork that are

for. A great place to start is Upwork because there's jobs on Upwork that are literally posted. They're asking you, they're like, I want to pay $500, $1,000, $1,500,

literally posted. They're asking you, they're like, I want to pay $500, $1,000, $1,500, $3,000, $20,000 for this AI workflow and you can I spawned sub it went viral on Twitter I spawned sub agents to go find all these jobs and then build out little demos for each of them and then we picked the best one and okay let's let's apply for that proposal with that so that's a little tidbit

there on on Upwork and all of that so which is just kind of hilarious because I mean Upwork you know is designed for human beings to complete work right it's not designed for machines let alone multiple machines to complete work um But I mean, as long as the quality of work is good, you know,

customers are going to be happy, right? Yeah. And I think like it's good to, you know, it's good to treat it as a starting point. Like, you know, if you can save time preparing a proposal for a job on Upwork, it's like, what is that worth, you know? And if you could do just 100x volume, What is that worth? So there's a couple things on that of like the parallelization of work

that worth? So there's a couple things on that of like the parallelization of work with open clause. So there's like, could you have 10 open clause working on a given task and it breaks up that tasks into 10 subtasks. And so each open clause does one of those subtasks. That's one way of having parallelization. But another way

is to have 10 open clause working on the same task, right? just 10

different instances of it. And that was kind of like what I was doing here.

It's, you know, four different instances of the one open claw, you know, or four different open claws doing the same thing of looking up different jobs on Upwork that they can apply to. So that's kind of an interesting topic there. But yeah, so like as far as open claw goes, it's a huge opportunity. I just want to

like throw this in here. Andreessen Horowitz, talks about computer use agents. I view

OpenClaw as a computer use agent. You know, you're giving an agent a computer and it's able to do, it's able to use that computer. It's like, it's a computer use agent, but that's half the story. The other half of the story is for it to be able to like click around, actually operate a graphical user interface on like legacy softwares and systems. And so you can imagine like,

you know, in here, this automation I built, this is navigating a legacy platform for this client that doesn't have any clean APIs and it's able to click in, download reports and actually, you know, be the universal API to be able to solve problems that you couldn't previously solve without computer use agents. So I think there's a huge opportunity here and Andreessen Horowitz, they talk about it and they say, we believe that

the properly, to properly verticalize computer use agents and assist companies in adopting it will be a major area of exploration for startups. And this is like, to me, this screams OpenClaw. Can you create a vertical use case for OpenClaw for a business and

screams OpenClaw. Can you create a vertical use case for OpenClaw for a business and actually assist that company in adopting it? I think that's the huge opportunity here.

So going back to this workspace we have set up for you, with all the people setting up OpenClaw, you could set it up as easy as, I invite Greg, to this workspace. I create him a new computer. We could just do it now. Open Claw 2. I select how much

it now. Open Claw 2. I select how much RAM. Let's do 8 gigs. Launch that.

RAM. Let's do 8 gigs. Launch that.

Open that up. And then all we need now to get you set up is to get the, let me get the curl command for Open Claw. I copy that from their website. And then as this computer loads, we'll be able to then literally just paste it into the terminal. And once I see the interface pop up, boom.

Okay. So now I'm going to hit enter. And now we're off to the races installing OpenClaw. So like it's as easy as that. And I think there's this in

installing OpenClaw. So like it's as easy as that. And I think there's this in and of itself is like a workspace where you can invite people and get them set up with OpenClaw or Claude code. I think this is like a huge, a huge opportunity as well of like, just there are executives right now that are like reaching out to me, uh, like law firms, insurance companies. They're like, can you, can

I just like pay you to teach me how to use this stuff? So that's

its own whole thing as well. As far as like, if you're savvy enough to even know how to install open claw and get it set up in the first place. Um, I just think there's a huge opportunity around like just helping executives, businesses

place. Um, I just think there's a huge opportunity around like just helping executives, businesses adopt it. Um, So yeah, you can see it's as easy as this to get

adopt it. Um, So yeah, you can see it's as easy as this to get set up. And then as far as like, what specific

set up. And then as far as like, what specific things can we, can we automate with OpenClaw? There's a couple, it takes a little bit of a design thinking approach. So when you go into a business, let's say you find a project on Upwork and you want to, you want to automate that with OpenClaw. Or let's say you go into a business and you're talking to

the executive, the decision maker, and it's clear that they have things that need to be automated. Well, As far as like design thinking goes, like you need to have

be automated. Well, As far as like design thinking goes, like you need to have a clear way of like first mapping, like all the different possibilities you can see here, this is something I did in the past of like, there's all these different things that you could automate and you want to map them off to very simple metrics. What is the value that we can create by automating this thing? And what's

metrics. What is the value that we can create by automating this thing? And what's

the relative effort, cost and time. And so we ultimately want to start with, okay, we want to automate things with open claw that are high value and low effort, cost and time. And that's like your low-hanging fruit. And so you start there. And so like for this client, this was like that. This was that. This

there. And so like for this client, this was like that. This was that. This

was like, okay, we're looking at products on this website. We're downloading them. We're parsing

all the information. That's the low-hanging fruit. So start with the design thinking approach of like, okay, simplest, fastest to deploy. And then you need to map out like the systems design around how, like, how is this thing going to be automated, right? So for this client, she's like, okay, I send an email to a

right? So for this client, she's like, okay, I send an email to a client of hers, right? She sends an email to a client and she has a presentation link with all these products, okay? And all those products, she needs to look all of them up and get all the information on them and then upload them into Zoho. So then your next step after identifying the opportunity is to literally, like,

into Zoho. So then your next step after identifying the opportunity is to literally, like, map this out. I use Figma. You can use whatever, but map out the actual workflow process of like, okay, step one, step two, step three. What is this automation going to look like tip to tail so that we can do the whole thing?

Because with OpenClaw and computer use, now you can do that. You can do things from tip to tail. It's not like it used to be where you'd have to go into a website and click a button and then it'd be able to do some 50% of the whole thing, but then you'd have to copy that and paste that somewhere else and do it on your own. Like we can do it tip

to tail. So quick recap, install

to tail. So quick recap, install OpenClaw into a computer, identify the next, identify the low-hanging fruit opportunities, the highest value opportunities, and then begin to map out what that even looks like to begin with. Couldn't you, you know, sort of, this is meta, but couldn't

you use OpenClaw to actually do some of the prioritization on the automations and actually, I mean you as a human being did the Figma, but couldn't you actually just use the OpenClaw or Cloud Code or something like that to help you with that? So for example, if you go back to the Figma, you could walk into a business and basically say, hey I want to figure out

what we can automate here. you do customer interviews with different people on the team. You record those customer interviews, you get the transcripts, you upload the transcripts, and then you say, hey, based on that, then you're like, you can actually say, you give this as a reference image, basically say like, hey, I want to

figure out which automation opportunities have the highest amount of value, lowest amount of effort, cost, and time, give me the top three, and then create you know, Figma.

And I think there's like a Figma MCP even that you can use and you can say like, hey, like, can you map this thing out based on these customer transcripts? Does that make, does that make sense? Or am I? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No,

transcripts? Does that make, does that make sense? Or am I? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No,

that's, that's, that's the way to do it. Like I, whenever I do any kind of call with a client or cut like potential customer, oh my gosh, Gemini for, for Google Meet is amazing. Yeah. You have it take all the notes. And then

actually, that's how I even got, because I don't know about you, Greg, but sometimes when you're in these calls, you kind of freak, you know, this industry, you know, you're in a new industry, you're helping this customer, you don't understand their domain expertise, the lingo. And so you got to go back and like, okay, like, what was

the lingo. And so you got to go back and like, okay, like, what was it that they said? And so have the granola or Gemini notes or whatever, and then literally ask it to like, okay, what's the step-by-step workflow and then map it out. It just helps me to map it out visually. But you could literally ask

out. It just helps me to map it out visually. But you could literally ask it, yeah, like you said, based on this transcript, what does the automation workflow look like, step by step? And if you don't want to use Figma, you can also even say, do output in mermaid code, and then you can use the mermaid code and insert that into an Excalibur

draw or a TL draw or something like that. So a little pro tip there.

Nice, nice. Yeah, yeah. And the Figma MCP is pretty cool too. Yeah, definitely check that out. So yeah, so then once you figure out what the workflow is,

that out. So yeah, so then once you figure out what the workflow is, this is where you have to actually be able to know, OK, how much can I really ask? How much can I just say to OpenClaw right now, hey, build this thing? And you just describe

the workflow versus, genuinely using something like Claude code to build out like what that workflow would look like with, you know, Python APIs, a genuine automation pipeline and process that your open claw can actually just trigger upon whenever it's like contextually relevant. So for instance, this whole pipeline here of like going

to these websites, looking at this product information, downloading the information, parsing it, uploading it to Zoho. The trigger of all of that is you know, the OpenClaw being

to Zoho. The trigger of all of that is you know, the OpenClaw being CC'd in an email and it's seeing that email, it has a link that is relevant for this type of workflow to be triggered. So that is like the thing, that's like the listening event that OpenClaw can do with like a cron job that it sets up to just like, okay, listen for this trigger. And then once that

trigger starts, it can then activate the whole Python script, workflow automation, everything that you would need downstream of that. So you're not relying too much on OpenClaw's abilities in and of itself. You're more so creating specialized AI workers underneath the OpenClaw that it can call individually, if

that makes sense. You talked earlier about sub-agents. I think a lot of people are confused about what is a sub-agent versus a task and stuff like that. Can you

just... Can you clearly explain that? Yeah. So subagents

are, there's a couple ways to view them, right? So like in the context of, and the reason I say there's a couple ways to view them is because there's a couple ways of using them. So in the context of like OpenClaw, you can ask it to spin up five research subagents that all go and research some given task. And like I said earlier, you could have it parallelize that task across

given task. And like I said earlier, you could have it parallelize that task across splitting it up across each sub agent or having each sub agent actually go and do the same task, you know, across five different instances. But the next thing around sub agents is that you can actually, like you said, maybe think of them in

terms of skills. So if you're familiar with anthropic skills, you can have like these specialized instructions and rules along with actual code that you can provide to your agent for it to be able to go and do a given task. And This is really nice because it gives you a very more

powerful general purpose agent that can do many of your specific nuanced tasks across various domains. But the thing is, it's like I want my general agent to be freed

domains. But the thing is, it's like I want my general agent to be freed up and to more so just be the orchestrator. And what if the general agent, this one, right, the one I have start here, can just call a sub agent like worker number four here to do a given skill that

you have created. So if your skill is that it goes on Twitter and finds the most viral ideas and it bookmarks them, rather than having your main agent do that, and now you can't talk to your main agent for the next 20 minutes because it's working on that, can it call that skill into a sub-agent and have the sub-agent do that? That, I think, is where things get really interesting. And in

terms of the context of deploying open clause for businesses, I would think of everything that you have in terms of an AI automation opportunity around workflows, skills, tasks, et cetera. I would actually just create that as its own like specific sub agent

cetera. I would actually just create that as its own like specific sub agent with its own skill that, that your open clock could then call. If that, does that make sense? It does. It does. Nice. It's, it's been, you know, I think the basic idea is like, you know, in layman's terms, it's,

as soon as you have your OpenClaw instance do something, they're busy. It's like they've got a mug of hot coffee.

And your job is you want to leverage this as much as possible. So you

don't want your agent to hold a hot coffee. So if you ask it to move this desk into this area, you know, it says, no, I'm holding a cup of hot coffee, I can't do that. So what sub-agents do is it basically creates leverage for your open claw. And it basically says, okay, you're going to

create a set of sub-agents who are going to be good at XYZ thing. And

that way it frees up your main agent to, as you say, orchestrate, to basically be the manager of the sub-agents.

And, you know, what that can mean is like looking at quality of work. It

can mean checking for certain things and stuff like that. Exactly. Exactly.

I think that's going to be huge. You know, when you start working with these businesses and customers who want things to be automated, once you show them what's possible, their eyes light up. They get all these ideas themselves. These are high agency people. You know, they come up with creative ideas that they want to to

agency people. You know, they come up with creative ideas that they want to to start implementing. And then what you realize is there's just a huge list of things

start implementing. And then what you realize is there's just a huge list of things that can be automated and they're excited about that. And so actually, the ability to, okay, first solve a vertical specific workflow for a customer and then that opening up their mind and then them being like, oh, I wonder if I could, could I text this thing and it does this? This is kind of where

the whole open claw moment is really powerful. It's like, It's the assistant-like capability. I have it here. A lot of people might get confused about why is it that OpenClaw is so special. It's the ability that has its own computer. It's running 24-7. You can text it. And you can schedule

tasks. And really, if we just removed OpenClaw from this card here and you just

tasks. And really, if we just removed OpenClaw from this card here and you just called this a really good employee... it would just make sense to be like, oh, works 24 seven, can code, can schedule tasks, I can text it and they have their own computer. So I think that's like kind of why open call is exciting for a lot of people. And if it's not, you know, if some people think

it's overhyped, you have to kind of look at the whole picture, I think. And

then you're able to really gauge it. So I'm certainly bought in on this idea that, you know, it could potentially, it could be, be a really good employee. I

think there's also cases where people aren't setting up their open claw in the right way where it ends up being a bad employee. And I think that's sort of like the issue with that is sometimes you have a bad employee because the manager, the coach essentially is not doing a good job at giving the right context

at the right time. So I think, do you have any tips and tricks around besides spinning up sub-agents, how could people listening to this, if they want to go after this opportunity of essentially verticalize open claws and automating some of these flows, how could people

actually take their open claw from a bad employee to a good employee?

Yeah, I think it comes down to Let's maybe we should walk through. So I

know you have, I was actually looking at this. So idea browser. So for everyone, if you don't know, Greg has this amazing product idea browser. And I love this trend to this idea today, TikTok trend tool that catches viral waves before they peak.

So I was actually looking at this this morning. I was like, wow, this is actually something that you can maybe turn into a skill for an open cloth, create a specialized skill around this. So let's just do a live, let's see. I genuinely

don't know. How far can we get? Can we build this out now? Let's see

if I copy all of that. And now I'm here in the open claw that we set up for you. And you can see it just got set up. I

just told it, hey, I'm Greg Eisenberg. So we're getting started, that's it. And let's

just say I want to build a specialized skill to be able to do the following. And I'm just going to paste that entire idea browser idea. And I'm going to ask it as far as like creating these automations, creating workflows or doing anything with OpenClaw. My number one tip is

always ask it to ask you questions. So what do you need from me to be able to build this out? Let's create a plan. And so a lot of people need to remember OpenClaw is like a... almost a little bit of a wrapper around like cloud code in a way. So let's see. Okay, cool.

This is a big vision, Greg. I like it. Let's break down a realistic build as an open clause skill. So now it's saying, okay, I need data access.

I need the scope. I need the niche focus. That'll shape what we build a lean skill. So the first thing that we can maybe do is... Here in like

lean skill. So the first thing that we can maybe do is... Here in like Orgo, we have this playground mode and you can ask the playground agent here to do things in this computer, in this computer environment. So one thing I might test first is like, can we get this agent to even just spin up TikTok

and just scroll TikTok and identify what is on the for you page TikTok? So

let's like maybe start there. Does that sound good? Yeah, absolutely. Let's do that. Open

Firefox. Go to TikTok. Scroll. I'm going to say scroll TikTok looking for what the most common videos are on the For You page. Give me a summary. So let's see how it's able to do this. So this is using our our playground mode.

And. Boom. Opens up Firefox.

going to go to TikTok. And for those listening, I'm just going to talk through a little bit about what this agent in our playground is doing. It's visually interacting with the screen. It's clicking into Firefox. It's opening up the browser. Now it's typing in TikTok.com. It's going there.

in TikTok.com. It's going there.

And let's see. This is always such a magical experience, just watching a computer navigate the web like a human being.

It's amazing. You know, this is there it goes. It's on it's on the it's on the homepage. And now it's going to it's going to actually scroll TikTok.

It's going to probably take a screenshot of this, get the context of based off that screenshot of what the video is about. You could even see it has hashtags, movie hashtag for you page. That's going to be able to infer a lot of things. Boom, it scrolls, it scrolls. It gets a pop-up. It's going to close out

things. Boom, it scrolls, it scrolls. It gets a pop-up. It's going to close out the pop-up. But on your point, Greg, Dario Amade, the CEO

the pop-up. But on your point, Greg, Dario Amade, the CEO of Anthropic, he just had a podcast with Dorkesh and it came out a couple of days ago. And you know, what's really interesting, what he said in that, in that, in that podcast, he said, he said, this idea of his around this

data center full of brilliant scientists and Nobel Prize winners, essentially his concept of what AGI will be like. He says the constraint to getting there is computer use agents, the ability to have an AI that can operate a computer like you and I can, but better, interact with the visual interface, also be able to do things under the hood, kind of like cloud code.

This is the constraint, he said. And I mean, it makes perfect sense if it can do anything that you and I can do on a computer, that seems like it can go pretty far. OpenClaw is like a chat GPT moment, I think, for this kind of idea of computer use. And as far as like building these computer use agents out, you can see this is clearly working. So we know

this is possible. Yeah. You can build... A lot of people might get confused with Orgo when they come to our site. They see computers for agents. They're like, what does that mean? Well, I think they get it now. It's like, okay, you want your CloudBot to have its own computer. But also, we provide... And I'll show this.

We provide the... In our docs, we actually provide the programmatic APIs so that you can create custom computer use agents that... do a given task very well.

So you can bring any model. You can get Kimi 2.5 is like the super cheap, you know, Chinese model. It's very good at computer use. And you can give it the ability to click, drag, scroll, type in the keyboard, spin up a computer.

And you can create specialized, really fast performance, low cost computer use agents using our docs. And I just say that to say, like, as far as, you know,

our docs. And I just say that to say, like, as far as, you know, this, this thing that we're doing here, creating a skill around scrolling TikTok, um, I think that's how we can we can actually give it a shot is let's just we see this is working now. Let me just grab the Orgo docs and let's start building this skill out. If you didn't see here, I'm at the Orgo docs.

I click this thing called LLMS full dot TXT. This is like all the instructions for the LLM to be able to build on top of Orgo. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to wait for I have to probably I'm going to wait for this to finish. its task and then I'll be able to tell it. But while this goes, Greg, you have any thoughts? Well,

it. But while this goes, Greg, you have any thoughts? Well,

just, you know, sort of a thing I was thinking about is it sounds like when, whenever you're trying to, you know, do a new automation, you start by thinking about what is a lightweight skill that I should create. Is that

correct? Right. Exactly. What's the MVP? Yeah. So you start with like a lightweight skill and you test it and then from there you're probably like, hey, here's what went wrong, here's what could be better, that sort of thing? Right, exactly. Just fine-tuning, you know,

of thing? Right, exactly. Just fine-tuning, you know, I think the design thinking process around all of this is super important of like, okay, if I want to build a car, maybe the first thing I do isn't to build the frame of the car or, you know, to build the whole body of a car. That's not the first thing. The first thing I should

do if I want to build a car, well, why do I want to build a car? Well, I want to build a car to go from point A to

a car? Well, I want to build a car to go from point A to point B. Oh, okay. So really, maybe I should start by building a skateboard.

point B. Oh, okay. So really, maybe I should start by building a skateboard.

How can we accomplish the task to get the dream outcome?

And sometimes that means starting with something that's completely different than the end state. Um, so this is done here. I think it interrupted itself, probably a context thing, but now we can actually, what we can do, this is all live. So we're, you're seeing this in real time. You can literally, there's a couple of ways to go about this. You can actually install cloud code

into this computer and have it build out, uh, the automation in here, or we can just ask this agent to do it for us. So let's see, um, I wanna build a computer use agent that does this exact thing, but more programmatically using the Orgo API docs.

And I paste that here. What do we need to get started? And we send that off. All right, here we go. So we need an Orgo API key. Here's

that off. All right, here we go. So we need an Orgo API key. Here's

the architecture of what we'll build. Okay, this looks good.

Um, orgo key and tropic key. It has all the code here.

Cool. Um, you're looking at a tick tock video extract the username, video description, the category, the appropriate like accounts. Boom, boom, boom. Okay, cool.

So I have all these things already and don't worry. I'm going to delete these keys. I'm not worried about leaking or anything. I'm going to copy my orgo API

keys. I'm not worried about leaking or anything. I'm going to copy my orgo API key. I'm going to paste it in there. And I'm going to say Argo API

key. I'm going to paste it in there. And I'm going to say Argo API key. I also have my Anthropic key. Let me grab that. I'm going to paste

key. I also have my Anthropic key. Let me grab that. I'm going to paste that here. Can we build this out? And so now we're going to have

that here. Can we build this out? And so now we're going to have our playground mode build out this computer use agent to be able to go do this thing that we just tested out. We know it works. We know we can do it. Let's turn it into something that could be more programmatic, kind of like

do it. Let's turn it into something that could be more programmatic, kind of like a skill. And let's give it to ClaudeBot so it always has access to it.

a skill. And let's give it to ClaudeBot so it always has access to it.

The dream. It's literally

any idea you have, you can just build it. And that's sort of the arbitrage opportunity, right? Especially like in our world, of course, like we're so used to this now, even though it's only been like two months. But, you

know, the opportunity is the vast majority of people on this planet and businesses would love to have better automation and would love to have computer use agents working for them, AKA really good employees working for them, but they don't know how. And so I think, which is cool that you're showing

us some of the best practices on how to do it. Exactly, and I think this is also, I can imagine the whole audience of this podcast, we're all pretty tech savvy. We know how to do things like VibeCode and play around with CloudCode and be able to do these things. And we take it for granted in

terms of what that value is worth. As far as OpenClaw and the opportunity around that, I mean, OpenClaw started going viral on Twitter around two to three weeks ago. Only now is it starting... And I'm starting to see it's starting to go viral on TikTok a little more mainstream. So...

Yeah, I just mean, you know, people are catching on and a lot of people still need help with getting up and running on this type of stuff. And what

you might think is, oh, I mean, I have a basic understanding of OpenClaw and CloudBot and CloudCode. And you might underwrite that. A lot of people find that valuable. So being able to help businesses adopted or just people in general, I think

valuable. So being able to help businesses adopted or just people in general, I think it's a super good opportunity. Yeah, I think my only advice for people would be to Don't be everything to everyone.

Don't help every business, help real estate agents, for example. Or pick a vertical that maybe you have some unfair advantage for some particular reason. And that unfair advantage doesn't necessarily mean you have 20 years of experience. It might mean just that you want to build something for real estate agents because your mom was a real

estate agent. So you know the customer, right? Um, so

estate agent. So you know the customer, right? Um, so

I think that's, that's the way to do, to do this. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's,

um, whatever, you know, that's your advantage. And I mean, I guess as far as like some, maybe this doesn't apply to everyone, obviously, if you're in this industry, then go for it. But like, you know, probably things to avoid things that I have a lot of like red tape, like healthcare finance, you know, I recommend maybe starting

something, Yeah, like you said, you could do even manufacturing or there's a lot of distributorships out there. They distribute merchandise, just like the demo I was showing earlier of that computer use agent working. So,

yeah, I think as far as doing what you know and starting there and then the market will tell you. The market will pull you into specific verticals. You'll start

seeing ways that as you build these specific... This is a great point. As you

build out these specific workflows around these verticals of like... Let's say you do the manufacturing thing and you do manufacturing for doors. Over time, you're going to have a workflow for almost like every kind of thing you could imagine in that industry. And

if you have the agents all built out, can you imagine you have a workspace?

And you invite some new company into this workspace for automations, for manufacturing, for doors, like luxury doors. And you invite them. They have all these AI employees in the workspace in Orgo set up, ready to go. You just

see them all here. And they're all ready to go. It's like you feel like you just hired not a person but a team. I think that's a very near future. In fact, I don't think there's anything stopping us from having that right

near future. In fact, I don't think there's anything stopping us from having that right now. It's all about just who's going to go out there and put in the

now. It's all about just who's going to go out there and put in the work to actually do that. And if you do, I think it's pretty clear. Yeah.

And that's why I truly believe that agents are the new SaaS.

You know what I mean? Right. I agree with the vision you painted. I think

that in the past... we created software that we would sell to these businesses and then they would have people actually press the buttons, touch the knobs to make it useful. Now you're not going to create software and invite them to the software. You're going to create agents and you're going to invite them to

the agents and then the agents are going to do work that creates value for these companies. So that's the mindset shift. It's

these companies. So that's the mindset shift. It's

only recently actually that people have been, I think over the last two weeks, I would say, two, three weeks, that people have been on X talking about this, how agents are the new SaaS. But I do think that you're going to see over the next two to three months some really

big winners. And you're going to start to see it work. So I'm excited for

big winners. And you're going to start to see it work. So I'm excited for people listening because I think that this is a type of audience that will act on some of this stuff. And it'll be interesting to see what happens. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it was Sam Altman that just said, you know, every company is turning into an API company. Yeah. And that's interesting because interfaces are, in a sense, dying in that way of like, you know, you won't interact like the ultimate interface for whatever reason seems to be chat and text message. And

it's happened twice now of like, okay, the chat GPT moment was a chat box.

And now it's the open claw moment, which is like a text message or telegram.

So it's like, okay, chat has happened twice. And that just means, okay, so we just want to wait for our agents to be able to use all the tools that we use. And we don't really care about how it does it. It just

needs to be able to do it. And And it runs in the background and does it under the hood. So here, okay, I started, I built, you can see that this agent in the playground built out the TikTok agent.py

inside the computer. So now I asked OpenClaw, hey, I built a TikTok agent.py in your desktop. Can you take a look? And it says, okay, I've read

agent.py in your desktop. Can you take a look? And it says, okay, I've read it. Here's what I see. There's a skeleton for, you know, using Orgo. plus

it. Here's what I see. There's a skeleton for, you know, using Orgo. plus

Anthropics API. Go ahead, Greg. No, you keep going. And it was, you know, all the actual TikTok logic, trend

going. And it was, you know, all the actual TikTok logic, trend detection, all this stuff. It's like, okay, maybe we should build that out. And it's

like, oh, you got the API keys hardcoded, et cetera, et cetera. So let's just say, let's use this script, build on top of it, or whatever you need to do. And let's spin up a Orgo VM inside of the Greg Eisenberg workspace to accomplish this automation with TikTok.

Let's demo it just working. We can spawn a subagent and VM. in this workspace.

And let me just give it an API key just in case it needs that.

What really blows my mind about this whole thing is that, I was going to say we're building a business in a very short amount of time, but it's really like we're building an asset. The amount of assets that people are going to be building using tools like this is going to be crazy. it's insane. Honestly, it comes

down to like, honestly, like it comes down to taste now. Good ideas.

Um, it's like, if you have a good idea, you could just, just build it.

And yeah, there's, there's going to be like, Oh my goodness, what's going to happen with all of these assets. Like you said, that people are just going to build and build and build. There's going to be so many assets. I think, is this what, is this what we mean when we talk about the, um, abundance that AI will bring, you know, of solving all these problems. Yeah. Well, I think what

ends up happening is, you know, unfortunately, there are going to be more and more layoffs as AI helps with productivity. At the same time, I think there's going to be a renaissance, the golden age of entrepreneurship and people creating assets, products like this, one person businesses. And

that's how I see it playing out. Yeah. Even, even, and maybe, we don't know officially, but maybe it's already happened with Peter Steinberg or the creator of OpenClaw.

You know, he, he just officially announced he's joining OpenAI. Like, I

think it was just him who built OpenClaw. How much did he get, you know, Ackler hired for? I think it was a lot. Yeah. So that's,

that's, I mean, that's, that's cool. I think, This is the best time to be a builder slash tinkerer to get creative. I'm excited to see what people build with OpenClaw and computer use agents in general. There's so many things, whether it's a super fast chess computer use agent or if it's something that's genuinely

driving an outcome in your business. I just think there's so many things that can be built. Playing around with these tools, getting familiar, learning how to use how to

be built. Playing around with these tools, getting familiar, learning how to use how to leverage them. Yes. AI is going to be replacing a lot of jobs, but also

leverage them. Yes. AI is going to be replacing a lot of jobs, but also it's going to enable a lot of people to do things, you know, that they've never been able to build before and now they can do it. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm just, Oh, here it is. Okay. So you can see it spun up this computer, tick tock trend hunter, and my screen's just refreshing. Uh, let me

just click into it. And, uh, And I could just tab back and forth a little bit to see, okay, VM is up. It's opening Firefox. Let me wait for the agent loop to start. Here we go. So it spun up its own computer.

This is insane, Greg. It spun up its own computer, OpenClawed it. And now

it's using its own Python script that it just made just now. We took it from Idea Browser. And now it's going to go do this thing that we just built out. I don't know how long this took. It lasts like 10 minutes. Kind of just, you know, in between we're talking and having our coffee.

10 minutes. Kind of just, you know, in between we're talking and having our coffee.

It's like, this is insane. I don't know. It makes me, it gets me giddy.

It's like, and it's going to figure this out. It's like, you know, it's going to debug. Like, okay, what's going on? Why am I on the ads.tiktok.com? Let me

to debug. Like, okay, what's going on? Why am I on the ads.tiktok.com? Let me

reroute myself. I'm sure it's going to figure all this out. But it's just cooking, you know? Crazy, dude. Crazy. Anything else you want to cover

you know? Crazy, dude. Crazy. Anything else you want to cover before we head out? Yeah, I think as far as other things to cover, I mean, I just want people to start thinking about these tools. You know, yes, once again, they're great

personal assistants. But if you start thinking of OpenClaw as an N8N or you start

personal assistants. But if you start thinking of OpenClaw as an N8N or you start thinking of it as a... you know, like a Lindy AI of like, you know, people, there are real businesses right now. Like we can go to Upwork right now and find jobs that are being posted around, you know, things like this is what you do. You just go to Upwork. Upwork's great because you get to see what

you do. You just go to Upwork. Upwork's great because you get to see what the market's asking for. And you just type in robotic process automation, you know, this old outdated way of programmatically automating tasks that it's like, Clunky and it breaks and it's not intelligent if the button isn't in

the exact UI space that you just delegated it to it won't work and you go here like posted yesterday Android RPA automation posted yesterday automation pipeline for client upload You go here you could just do let's let's find $500 $1,000 $5,000. Let's look at all these projects. Okay, this one boom right

$5,000. Let's look at all these projects. Okay, this one boom right here and $1,000 budget. I'm looking for an experienced automation engineer to build desktop automation, computer use, for my software business. We sell a specialized dynamic PDF. You take all this context, give it to OpenClaw, give it to CloudCode. How

PDF. You take all this context, give it to OpenClaw, give it to CloudCode. How

much of it can you build out as a demo based off of this context alone? Send a proposal. You have your first customer right here,

alone? Send a proposal. You have your first customer right here, $1,000. Get some case studies. Leverage

$1,000. Get some case studies. Leverage

that. maybe go deeper into this industry that this person's in, start building out specialized workflows using CloudBot, OpenClaw for all the different vertical use cases in that, create a workspace of it. I think that's where we're at right now and I'm excited by this. So yeah, I guess we'll just see where it goes and yeah, okay, this

this. So yeah, I guess we'll just see where it goes and yeah, okay, this needs a little debugging as to be expected. We spent 10 minutes on it, but I think you get the gist and yeah, I'm excited to see what everyone builds.

From your lips to God's ears, baby. I think your approach makes complete sense. It's the exact approach I would use. Totally recommend it. People get

your hands dirty, get tinkering. I'm excited for what you build. Nick

doesn't do a lot of podcasts. I think I was only able to find him do one live stream before. So show him some love in the comments section. uh,

like the video, um, show them some love. And, um, Nick, I hope you come back on, uh, share more use cases. I'm going to be sharing more use cases that I'm using that might, you know, I haven't done, uh, too many publicly. I'm

going to be sharing more of my use cases, both on virtual machines and on my own Mac mini, uh, for my open class stuff. So get ready for that folks. And, uh, Nick, wait, is there anything else

folks. And, uh, Nick, wait, is there anything else before we go that you want to share? I just want to share with you, Greg. You don't know this, but I've been a long time follower. This is

Greg. You don't know this, but I've been a long time follower. This is

my YouTube Rewind 2025 top 0.5%. So if you're watching this and you love Greg's podcast, you love his videos, you get building on top of it, you put cool stuff out there, you know, You join your top YouTube channel on your rewind of the year. I love it. I love it. Nick,

you're a legend. You got to come back on. You're one of us. You're one

of us. So I appreciate that. Thank you, Greg. Thank you for having me.