Marketing Growth: Real Data, Proven Strategies, and Expert Tips! | Tier 11 Live! - EP004

I think we're live now are we go live go live uh uh it's saying a premium account on Twitter is needed but anyway forget

Twitter premium account a premium account we need to go live on Twitter all right so we announced it on Twitter seven bucks he wants his seven bucks that's right my God

all right everybody this is you you can tell we're a little bit informal here it's been a long week here at tier 11 John Mor GL glad you could make it yet

another Friday live or just tier 11 live that just so happens to be on a Friday yep um yeah we've we've got a lot of cool stuff we're gonna be talking about here

today and um obviously we've got uh opportunity to answer some questions this is going to be sort of a continuation of what we talked about

last week well I was called out by you last next week that's right we're gonna see if your changes worked and this is really not a testament to how good John

is it's more of was wicked right Chris I'm looking at you because like if it's if it's if it works well it was me if it was didn't work well it's you uh so I'm hoping it goes well well I guess I guess

we'll find out that's what that's what lives are all about like sometimes sometimes they don't work out perfectly sometimes they do but uh yeah so today

uh we're going to have part two last week we talked about well we I keep want to say I'll leave links in the show notes because I do a podcast on the other my other life but there's no show

notes Here on a live uh last week we talked about a particular account but we uh and we were looking inside Wicked reports which we obviously really like

as far as you know tracking a lot of the that you and I feel are super important um something that we call marketing performance indicators and there's

there's 15 of them there's lots of them but the 15 that we think that are the most important you can get um over at tier.com

MPI m is in Mary P is in Peter I is in I don't know uh I don't know go look it's also on our YouTube channel you can get it there too but uh Wicked

reports shows a lot of this sort of stuff and which is one of the reasons why we like it so much but these are metrics that a lot of folks don't really look at because they're so caught up I

know you know that I know we've said this many times so many folks who are in marketing whether they're media buyers whether they're VPS in marketing whether

they're CEOs are so caught up in Ina metrics and particularly roas return on ad spend or Roi what we used to call it return on ad been and that can be

manipulated and a lot of these third- party attribution tools have these types of metrics which give you a deeper insight into what's actually really working and at the end of the

day doing marketing isn't just pulling you know a rabbit out of a hat and saying hey look at my great metrics it's actually about producing profitable growth right and that's the whole goal

and so obviously we work together now at TI 11 you and I obviously see eye to eye on that uh not a lot of agencies get it as of yet so the purpose of this show

here is obviously is to help you as a marketer get it or you was the CEO VP of marketing get your team to get it and obviously if you need our help we're always here for you so anyway so part

two of what we talked about last week here to give a little bit of a summary for folks who didn't watch last week and shame on you if you didn't because you need to be here every Friday but uh tell the folks a little bit about like a

backstory of what we're going to talk about here today yeah so what we looked at last week is we used Wicked reports

to dive into a meta account of uh of a of a company and we were looking at a few different things one we were

comparing the wicked report metrics to The Meta report metrics and meta was showing that sometimes when you have a better endak in Wicked you actually have

a worse roaz in meta which is actually pretty much always going going to be the case when you're looking at where did they start and where did they end we want to put more ADP on where they started meta is going to show more often

the areas that have the best amount of Raz where they ended so you can kind of you know get a full picture of things but if you're measuring by Raz or using automated bidding if you're not generating Demand by using more awareness campaigns reengagement

campaigns or marketing campaigns if you're not trying to move the needle in an industry you kind of just say well did that ad find enough good people this week no or yes and now I don't really know what to do with it so we did is we

built out a more of like a a fall funnel strategy inside of meta to attract engage educate and convert users and we're using Wicked reports in order to identify what ads are working and what

ads are not what campaigns are driving the most amount of high-quality valuable traffic and what campaigns are doing more remarketing or what campaigns are having a point of diminishing returns or have too much ad spend and last week we

made a big uh series of changes and this week is going to be was John right that's what we're gonna do what's

nice about what's nice about doing these live um and screen share is it's not like I took a one-off use case of like something that you know ran a sale and like look how good I am like this is

actually like the hard and this is what you know what you're all here to kind of watch us do be amazed I'll sign autographs whatever you want or learn yourself and make yourself a better marker which is the hope of what you're doing while you're being here and

getting the most out of it so we're going to drum roll um in your brain everyone so here's the DAT what I what I

love about lives is that we are doing it actually live right and I believe we are gotta add here gotta add you to State there you go see look at this we're

doing this without our producer this week so I'm the producer actually man I don't get paid EXT to do this so I think with every other case study digital Market

that I've ever seen they always show some kind of insanely great result yeah on but they don't tell you how they kind of got there and you can you can show

insanely great results inside the app it's it's very easy to do that but what we're talking about here this is actually how the sausage is made and this is in part of the process of

getting to the amazing result and the amazing result at the end of the day is profitable growth so take it away so you're all this kind of you know first day that I am um so for proof this is

the 2nd through the eth so last Friday to uh yesterday and this is compared to the previous period so what you're kind of seeing is this is the day that we last met this is what has happened now

and then compared to exactly previous period so 82 to 88 compared to last seven days which is 726 to 81 all agree that this is not you know I'll hit apply filter so you can see that no nothing

nothing changes here this is already there nothing up my sleeve exactly no no no uh no rented Ferraris here don't get me started or rent rented

Mansions right yeah no books I never read so here's 1% increase in cost all right uh our leads which is basically just like form Fields uh for

people that are signed up for like newsletters it went up 24% y our cost per lead went down 21 our sales have gone up 23% our customers have gone up

23% our enac has dropped 18.4% our Blended you know metrics have gone up 12.8% and our clicks went up 22% and all of these here are all of your

you know kind of top leading indicators and performers of your business compared to what we spent which was the same 1% changing cost 23% more new customers and

you'll see that there's actually a difference here this is not 23% new customers so 23% better enac we did attract a few returning customers we weren't trying but that's okay those

happen it's fine this is our our Northstar metric is is a cost requiring our first-time customer going down and that's what we want to see now let's dive into the little bit of the reasons

why so what we'll notice is these are all the campaign uh kind of metrics and this is all of the meta metrics and then there's some additional campaign metrics over here on the side and what we were

attempting to do is we wanted to clean up the ad copy or sorry not clean up the ad copy we wanted to remove the ads that were not performing they had like some 500 some 600 some $1,200 endak ads that

were running and we said hey these are obviously when we compare the first click to last click ads that are getting a high decent amount of exposure but are not effective so when we look at the metrics here we see the costs are all

the kind of the same you see the new visits starting to increase because our EC pnvs have dropped because our cpms have dropped because we're using better ads and we'll see a enca that actually

went down down and a little bit higher so this one wasn't as favorable in enca this one kind of technically did fail a bit we had more visits we had the same amount of cost we had a cheaper

conversion but they didn't the conversion rate stay the same so no movement to a slightly worse to better now we can kind of see okay where where would did we make the right decisions

where we did we make the wrong decisions and then when we're going to kind of go into a little bit more of a in depth what we kind of see in like this one here is one of the one of the ones that we were looking at last week you called

that person out by name by the way that was what we F watching nobody watches these things right hopefully they don't ever see this but in this one ad uh this is an ad set

here with a group of ads so what was nice about this is our ecnv globally went down and our costs went down here these are the ones we paused our costs went here cost increase here because

these are ones that we left on so I don't have obviously where they used to be bad this last week like this used to say like 600 and now it's at zero because we've we just now reduce a whole bunch of spend on it it's no longer

attributing anything but what you can see is that for the three that are on compared to the four that we were shutting off or removing or pausing it

did have a Topline Global Effect of 38% less enac and 40 4.1% more cost but our new our new visits did increase on these

people and our cost per effective new customer or cost per eff new visit did decrease so all this is like really really really crazy but long story short all we did is remove the bad and put more of the good cold traffic onto

the better ads it's simple yeah very very very simplistic I have to apologize everyone out there in YouTube land my dog is is yelping at my door and if I don't let him out we're gonna have to have a a bigger issue on her hand so

give me one quick second just so just to explain like a lot of these metrics you may or may not be familiar with so ecnv is effective cost per new visit it's a

leading indicator really as to whether or not your cost per new visit to your website is going up or going down and it does not

necessarily does not necessarily relate to enac but it's a good leading indicator to tell you how many people are actually brand new how much cold

traffic are you bringing in because retargeting is easy like I guess we can just agree on that fact like retargeting people who already know who you are and selling them again that's easy easy any

damn digital I mean you know my dog could do that and I don't even own a dog um but finding cold traffic customers

who have no idea who you are and bringing them into your world ecnv which is one of the 15 metrics by the way that you know we give away in our giveaway to explain a little bit further is a

helpful indicator and I think you're the only person that I know on the planet that uses that am I explaining that correctly yeah and what's nice is when you see

this coming here the E cpnv this is like dropping cpcs it really is because everyone thinks oh I gotta click it must be new when that's where everyone immediately fails yeah now if you say I

gotta click the next thing you should ask is was it new returning then you should ask is there more of one or the other then you should ask is the rate of the better one increasing then you

should ask what is that c to me so that's that's the difference between CP see an ecnv that looks like this in practice good I have a cheaper new visit

now am I getting more clicks yes yeah now what is the difference between the new and returning clicks this here 860

versus 660 this is 860 total 660 new a th000 total 763 new 6300 5100 new good we're at about 80ish percent cold now yeah now what was my next question after

I know my ecpmv are my clicks are my click Rising what's the split my next question was am I getting more a better yes I get 87 more clicks 98% increase at

the rate of new okay 50% more clicks 53% increase of the rate of new and then 47 more perent more clicks but 63% more clicks of new good so my rate of new

versus returning is increasing as the total amalgamation Rises what does that mean this can scale right right good now we're looking at okay now we actually have good quality traffic more new than

returning a good amount of split of new versus returning and if I optimize for ad copy that gives me cheaper cpms what is the end result same cost dropping ncac by

18% and that's in one week beautiful that's in one week these are not 5,000% like like I guess 5,000 wouldn't really make sense but

97% decrease in enac we're talking about a week progress we're talking about you're spending 38k in a week if I'm reading this accurately

like that's a pretty large Improvement yeah 18% it's gradual like you're not doing this overnight but you're doing it in phases and stages methodically and

this is how you scale a business you do it by looking at these sorts of things well you know what's funny too is if you ask any good business owner what the profit margin is that could have been that right there it could have been like

oh I have a 20% profit margin like Tada you doubled yeah you just doubled it right right yeah and then and if I do that for if I do that if I could do that twice in three months your business is

now 50% more efficient right now let me throw a wrench in the gears here is like the effective cost per new visit but

also new visits that could be mistaken as like if you're if you're looking at in isolation it could be bot traffic if

your traffic is B is bad traffic potentially okay but like you're using that as a part of a whole as an ecosystem alongside every one of these

relats to each other yeah right because then if it was bot traffic my enac would increase right okay y I love this stuff this is like oh so good and I was

actually getting worse returning Revenue my new Revenue metrics wouldn't be going up right yep absolutely so I'm just I'm sort of stating the obvious but oh yeah

like there is good and bad traffic for sure I mean if you did performance Max for this this [Laughter]

is I've seen performance max out of 5% [Laughter] cold oh man oh my

god oh something cool uh here here is my my um my what is it called I'm gonna

it's it my uh impostor syndrome is kicking in right here um this part right here just for example is 726 to 81 193

new customers and then last seven days here 244 so 193 244 I wanted to use a global source of truth that wasn't third party to say yep we're actually also seeing this here on the back end as well

so just as a as a one last final soulle source of truth because this people say well that's attribution this is indicative of why my new customers are actually Rising so that's why I just wanted to kind of clear the air in case people are like

yeah but you know cool magic trick that was back into Shopify yeah it's back into Shopify and we're going to have to blur out those names uh post production uh shintaro for that one but that's okay

you guys saw it there uh point is is that um this is actually real and one of the things like like this this interface right here so this is obviously this is

wicked reports right you've adjusted your columns quite a bit to include it's been a week or so since I've last logged into Wicked reports so

these are not default you have to pull these out or are these Now default inside Wicked and I don't want to turn this into a wicked commercial but the point is like Scott would love me to but

I'm sure I'm gonna be Scot here for a moment well thanks Ralph I'm glad you ask all of the columns that you see here magically appear and fly out of my ass

right onto your screen in real time I I actually didn't change much it actually did it was pretty close to that just it just kind of appeared that's think I I think I readjusted them a little bit so it's easier to display but

these all kind of defaulted right as soon as I popped it open this is great yeah they they know it's you logging in Scott's probably logging in the background like monitoring your every every move uh the point is once in a

while it just says like You're Beautiful on the page I think that's just for me though yeah I think that is just for you he he does love you uh Scott is the owner of wicked reports who we're obviously very friendly with um so

marketing performance indicators once again you can get that over at tier 111.com MPI we're not selling there it's just like this is just a more of an explanation of what we're talking about

here so make sure that you do grab that the the key with this is double-checking with the source of truth yes right like this is all great if you were how

different does this look inside the Facebook ad platform well you know what's funny is when you say something like how much different does this look

Facebook will only give you attribution it will not give us everything else about it and that's what I'm thinking is important is I know that I got a cost

per click and I know I got like clicks um like the outbound click but out of 5,000 I'm like okay well what happened to the 5,000 we actually track a little bit more than they do and we can tell

you how cold or warm that is in here so I'm like okay if my clicks went up I I I do not want to see my clicks go up and my new visit rates go down like that is

fcon one like that is horrifying yeah that's bad news if you have a 20-day sales cycle three weeks from now you're you're punished for what you just did

now and that is so massively missed by the market is your sales cycle if it's not two days long you

should never look at this every week really can't yeah it's not it's not baked data yet if it takes 14 days to sell somebody and you like send out postcards and they

just land on like day two you're like where's all my money like no it's it's it literally just landed give it time you have to take that same consideration into it but the leading indicators as to

did it land at the right house did they open their mailbox did they grab your pamphlet look at it for the first time that's all that's inside of wicked that is not inside of meta yeah all that's

actually happening to say hang tight things will get better or the reason why your n ecpmv went down that actually drove more new visit that drove your

enac down was because we took all of this and paused it and we spiked this ad 50% and brought in 70% more new people this ad went up 22% brought in 36% more

new people and if these are the ads on my first click attribution if these are the ads that will win these two over here should have a better endak they do

they do and the Top Line does great now these are the targets to beat my creative team has to analyze these and say what did why did this go good and can you make three different variations to beat this so we could double down on

this right that's the key so you're giving insights into the creative team I don't think you're you're a kind of guy that goes into you know

uh Adobe and starts doing like video editing and you know image production and that's for the creative team and we you know company sells uh stick figure

drawings I can you can that's that's your Forte um I don't even know the name of any of the tools that any of our designers actually use because I've never actually done it that's I learned

everything in marketing up until like video tools the only thing I know how to use is like canva um but the point is my my creativity in my drawing stopped when the thing that you had to lift over your

head and shake like to that's where last time I designed something was yeah I I actually saw a gallery of those the etes sketches sket yeah and we last

time we were in New York an entire wall in a coffee shop was all etes sketches it was like really good um but so okay so the the point is is like you can

double check versus like my sort of stupid question is what does it look like in Facebook you can actually see that inside Facebook inside Wicket and you can compare yeah and like all right

so let's talk about let's compare in apppp versus what you're seeing in the real world yeah maybe for folks just because we constantly sort of rip on that maybe

not enough but we will constantly rip on this and this show is inapp roas is very misleading in so many different ways and

why that is I guess is sort of the big question but also maybe just show folks why that is the case yeah here so what's funny is the the way that I learned

these metrics when I didn't have tools like Wicked was using extrapolated benchmarks and 80% of the time I was correct so extrapolated benchmarks means I know that's not the right metric but

if it's consistent and if it moves in the right direction then I'm happy so you'll find that 80% of the time they're correct sometimes you know they're

they're a bit off and you have to measure them differently per stage so in my L1 which is my cold traffic what we're looking at here is saying if I have

a something that says okay is bad Raz and my endak is going up that's good a 20% decrease in Raz may not be Defcon one for you an 85% increase in enac

should be so there's there's some that's okay but this is this is what is hurting us now like this right now is something that we tested further yeah and it's it's not really

working yeah I don't care I I'm I'm Switzerland over here great rad red is is bad okay now flip side to that though is sometimes you get things that go more

wrong so like this one says hey you stuck a large amount of cost increase into this this one ad here right and now

this is one of our best is actually the best performing ad and in terms of volume 10 grand to $167 doesn't really count but when you

look at this it says oh no it's getting it's getting a bit worse because this is going to be kind of more split attribution that's exactly what I'm talking about exactly but what we're actually saying is no I can Spike up new

visits at the same rate of cost because my effective cost for new visit has gone down so I'm putting 16% in getting 12% out and at a more higher

efficiency I I don't care what that says really I mean like it's say oh it's get a little bit worse like no it's it's actually literally the best performing ad and I'm actually going to double down on this ad spend which is different than

what you see if Raz goes down 2% your first initial thought is double the budget if I see the my end CAG is going down with a 15% increase I'm like put 15% more maybe double the budget depending upon how much you're spending

on it right so those decisions that you're making is if it's row as or inap based you're relying solely on One

Singular source of truth that's kind of sometimes designed to do nothing but give you more or mislead you to spending more money now they'll try to reward you but those 30% inefficiencies are all the

reasons why I can't scale is because of that now I mean in meta's defense or Facebook's defense in this particular

case if you look at website purchases website purchases are up by 8% in app but purchase Ras is is down if anything

it looks fairly dismal at 0 41 like they the simple marketer maybe the beginner marketer would just look at that in app and say I got to shut that

sucker off without knowing that that's actually feeding his family yeah yeah and or even like bigger decisions where it's like all right just you know we put more ad spend in here and it went a little bit better but if I said hey you

dropped your your prospecting cost required first-time customer by 15 MH okay like yeah that's a pretty big swing 20% down in my my main campaign

that I spent more money into it perfect like it's it it's definitely a leading indicator but 8% of a row as a39 is like death but it's like okayy this is actually dropping and you can spend more that's life yeah so those are affecting

the decisions I'm not sure if I should do anything I can't scale this one is like oh man hit the gas yeah so those different ways that you kind of look at how much is it affecting and are all the

other 20 columns all showing better performance new versus cold traffic is at a good ratio your rate of increase of cold traffic is better than your rate of return your ecpmv is dropping so it's

actually costing you less to scale your enac is also dropping because it's costing you less to get that new traffic to less to sell the new customers all of those things was like yes yes yes yes yes it's like a pre-flight checklist like I have gas my engine works my flaps

are working I have a landing gear there's my co-pilot here let's take off like right by looking at by looking at like an inap metric you may only get two

yeah it's kind of clear out today try it right yeah hope hopefully the clouds don't come in or or the sun goes down

yeah my fl's working that should be can't see where I'm going uh can you show that screen just once again there's a question that I have for you which I've always this has been something that

I've debated with our team for years and years I guess I have to I have to yeah I have to add I have to pause camera just because I'm having internet issues so so everyone out there in YouTube land my

apologies that's but I'm still here I just gotta kill it for a second John's just a white circle now so let me ask you this all right so you're in a campaign inside Facebook

okay you're looking at Wicked reports you've got your source of Truth these are the real numbers these are the actual numbers you're inside a campaign and then you're inside an adset one of

your better performing adsets and the CAC go the endat goal for this customer I believe is under 250 we want to be correct we would love to be under

200 but what you're not also seeing is all we're actually having our best week every week this last like four weeks inside of um inside of Amazon okay so that's where this is kind of like I

think it's like 120 um okay but we want to get this like paid down to under 200 if we can for everything to benefit from it okay got it all right which brings up another question that I have for you but

I'll hold off on that so inside that campaign inside that ad set there are ads right this is how it works but if you look at I don't know if you

have this as a column the ads that are underperforming from an ncac perspective okay you've got one that's 240 one

that's 260 little high you've got one 166 but it's really it's only one sale looks like but then you have pause that one you pause that one okay now I don't

know if you have this column being shown but on the ression side what I always sort of think this is something that we've always debated is if you have four

ads inside an adset inside of Facebook and your overall ad set is at your goal don't touch any of the individual ads right even the ones that are

underperforming that was my um that was my sop for the longest time okay and that was my sop before Wicked and I and I I know this doesn't sound like a wicked but this is my sop before I had

these metrics over here and this is something that I explained last week is your goals are going to depict how these ads are shown a impression based

campaign is going to be different than a conversion based campaign that's gonna be different than Vantage plus based campaign that's also going to be different than a cost cap campaign like

those are four different ways that meta is going to change the way that your ads are shown and the frequency as to which your ads are shown and how you know I

know it's it's frequency but that means how often your ads are shown to a user because my um my methodology here is I'm using Max conversions everywhere so

these have high I want to get high frequency based on my ad spend and I want all asss to show to everybody at once so my then verification of that is

this if I look at the amount of enac that I have from between first click and last click I can see first click 240 M um not manage columns first click 240

but if I do a full funnel which is like they could have attributed a few clicks my 240 goes to

uh 190 okay okay so now 240 is down to 190 240 is just my first click so I want to see from my first click what is what is

at least getting engagement or what is meta pushing first that is what my as spend is going to be directly correlated to potentially and that should be how this

campaign is going to work no cost cap no Advantage Plus manual placements and Max conversions which means if it's underperforming meta does not care it's still going to show

it so in this first round of getting our creative testing I'm verifying that they aren't showing ad one and then showing

ad two somewhere else that has a bad first click end cack which means this should go up if it was first shown but then other things were getting clicks and then

getting conversions because this went down because it's the same ad getting potentially multiple clicks or multiple frequencies until it is then getting a click or even multiple clicks

this is still like yes and this ad is getting the first click or multiple clicks that the comparison between those two gets better if this went up I got to

see what else went bad for click and then better last click or better Blended okay so that's my the methodology and this is where I say this gets very very

very specific because what I'm teaching you here if you're using a cost cap or vanage plus you cannot you can't do it's not going to operate the same

way but what I'm trying to do is find the best creative that I can spend you know much more money on and get better performance until I Max this out and

this is not going to be reduced until a either this start stops performing or B A Better creative has surpassed these benchmarks metrics that you're seeing

here okay got it got it so you are really you're you're pruning as you go along because of the

fact that you're very very strict with your criteria do you recommend that for all marketers I recommend they understand it well enough to know what strategy to

apply to what goal my goal is make this as effective as possible and then hit the gas here right so I'm trying to find out where I find consistency as

effective as possible while also setting the stage like you're seeing here for this to then have more Asen here so that these greens get more

green got it now what's cool about this is if I go through my Mission Control uh go back to Funnel Vision actually um then let's do

this uh full funnel all same thing this is our total Topline metrics the ones that we were looking at for the other ones here were only for Facebook

but that's also like pretty much where our full channel is like you can see 16,000 versus like pretty much nothing else in this mix here right now when you go into the unattributed like we're not

sure what has actually happened we know that we have when you go into the Facebook Channel we have a 234 endak yeah first first click we

have a 249 and C see how that grew yeah so we have first click is 249

Blended is giving me a 234 a last click here a last click is giving

me a 252 perfect so now this is doing first click and Blended click but it's not it's not simply the last click I'm not I'm not getting really cheap end cacks on last click that's actually good

the reason why is to globally drop your endak you need to have a wrong one you need to have your overall actually increase and this is where in that metric say my camera's better this is

where it's really important to understand that even though meta may look good how has it affected the business we've already hopped in the back end of Shopify proven that new customers are coming in for the same

cost now what about the global cost okay so our Global cost is 42,000 because there's other things that we spent on things like Google brand which has

stupid crazy horrible enacs only eight.

five% cold visits it's brand sure but so now we look at okay our customers our enac is dropping down by

14.4% good my Global enac is below a 200 I want my first click meta to be below 200 so even different attribution models depending upon what stage what attribution levels that you're measuring

but I need to have it first click below that goal so that every single thing after that that you lose into attribution and full funnel marketing those all get better if my feeder engine is getting more efficient at first click

better ads to get better engagement on better cold traffic how did you figure out that first click enac for Facebook has to be 240 knowing for well that your

goal is 200 how did you sort that out I mean it's like is it a metric that you use right at 20% greater like what how do you sort of figure that one out yes so you use them as kind of like your

benchmarks to your your overall globals we have a report that I can't share on screen um just because it's it's kind of private information from about the company that I'm not I'm not privy to share we have a full uh dashboard though

about what is our year-over-year broken down by week comparisons we want to scale by about 40% every year um oh

sorry we want to scale 20% over what we've been scaling and we've had 100% growth for last four years so 100% growth for last four years and we want to be 20% more efficient than that so what I have to do is find all of the

areas of inefficiencies and remove all that so that compounding in the next five years we've doubled Upon Our double because 20% every year better than the last five years we have we we've doubled

in compounding so what we found is that if that's so the business has a goal hey look at that I just want to call that out like any businesses that are out

there like you have to have a goal yeah might help with your media buying might help with your media strategy go ahead yeah you you have to have a business goal and it can't be like that campaign's got to hit a 3X row as that

is that is minuscule thinking um you have to have a Topline business goal and you have to Trend those track those Trends so we found the Benchmark areas as to what those should say and if they were this more efficient then we would

achieve our goal and so we're using that as I don't even 234 enac is not right it's it's not not when you count Amazon and not when you count our uh our subscription orders our continuity is

continually growing so we're actually increasing our myrr just by pushing more cold traffic and all we can measure is a

240 enac is that the actual enac no but if 200 240 goes down to 200 does our Topline enac get better when you include things like Amazon and continuity yes so

that's what we're trying to achieve now in your master dashboard we're going to get to the questions in just a second thank you for everybody for uh asking questions feel free to drop them in the comment section we will be answering

those in just a minute or two in that sort of that M I don't know what to call it it's like the master dashboard where you show does it have a name like Google Facebook uh email everything else Tik

Tok like inside Wicked it's the screen that we always wanted that they finally delivered to us right yeah um

but I this one here yeah I did not see Amazon in there no no we don't have Amazon hooked up to this one here we actually have a whole separate yeah we

have a whole separate tool of that um one thing that I would say here uh let me just let me stop screen share real quick because I'm G to go into the history of something so you know the

Amazon numbers like you're you're equating them back to this because inside Wicked you can have an a line for Amazon just in this one you don't have it in there for whatever reason yeah we

don't have it just um because if we added that now which is actually a really good good point to bring up if we added that now it would skew everything we benchmarked um I see okay you're

gonna blend the metrics together and reset so sometimes it's like do we kind of even actually want to do that not not really um so what we man this thing is branded everywhere at the top we

actually have you don't have to show it it's all right I can't share but we have a we have a um it's actually just exported to looker report and looker report tells me impression click CTR

total sales total orders like I know that in what's nice is in August of 2024 so far we have $48,000 in sales um and

we know that last month it was 155 so we're already pacing past it which so that's all that's all I care about it's all you care about because you look at that as gravy really 100% And and that's

all the people that didn't buy our cons it and our continuity is um is even better um and so when I'm looking at uh actually I can I can share this screen

here this be good um if I look at I look at this here for example um this would be fun so this is year-over-year our I have to ads to Stage see I'm

producer and host and spacing out on my producing go ahead there we go so for the last 365 days compared to the previous 365 um our recharge subscriptions went

from 550,000 to 1.5 million and that's you know what's the end cack of a person that has the staying power of 18 months I'll pay 500 bucks for those people sure

hell yeah but if I can make it 20% more efficient oh I mean we already gained a million dollars this year in just recharge so if we stop all marketing we make a million year yeah right like in

just actually 1.5 million a year like that's that's where we're at right now so a lot of things that work a lot of goals you're looking to achieve a lot of things that you have to measure but if you're looking at in a roaz oh man

you're just missing everything else you're missing out right yeah right so I mean in in some in a lot of cases like we will like we'll have that Amazon line

in there to give an overall which does help in your particular case you're so focused on just the paid side and curious on this particular customer um I can't remember if this is the case or

not like all their Amazon sales are organic or is there some paid on the Amazon side there's some paid we usually four and 5x are paid our paid is heavily

brand and then we'll usually see a double of our sales that we bought no a tripling of the sales that we bought in brand in total sales um so it's kind of funny it's like we'll have things where

it's like spend 12 make 60 and then also make 180 like in total sales so there's there's definitely and and that's what we Track year-over-year by month because there is heavy seasonality got it so MH

and and also just for those who are either Amazon sellers or have products on Amazon I've talked to business owners that don't realize this and don't Factor

this in to their endak is Amazon actually does take a portion of your sale so in this particular case like at

that type of volume do you the 200 number is adjusted to to factor that into the equation or does Amazon not even is it not even looked at because it's like it's your your your brand

spend on Amazon is so little you know you're going to get it no matter what as long as you're paid is working right as long as our paid is working our brand spend inside of Amazon and the sales that happen on Amazon is like a you know

it's like running out just a brand in Google like if it constantly gets more effective and more efficient where you just need five grand more per that next year for that month and you are able to

put on $30,000 more on the books that top of funnel awareness makes the bottom of the funnel so efficient that you can actually afford a higher first click got it and and then when you know your company's goals as to how you're trying

to achieve and grow that enac is based off of kind of like this trend here I'm just shared screen enable that um so when you look at this here so I I joined

them in October 2022 which is right here um this is they had you know 20% of all their sales were new and and 80% were all returning when you focus on an enac you know how much you can afford to buy

which means they will come back and sustain so you have like a 10mer here and a 10mer here but tenr here is much more profitable I like that tenur better

right that's awesome all right well let's get some questions here uh we're about 14 minutes in uh hang on how do I actually do this here I'm gonna figure this out get rid

of the banner and then do something else uh comments all right jack or sorry Hunter has

been has been patiently waiting one of two here 15 minutes so yeah I think there's actually two there's actually three he did two two of TW yeah yeah yeah so we'll read it off here so for lead gen clients trying to generate

demand Awareness on YouTube what kind of campaign mix does John recommend Google pushes full funnel mix of video reach video views video action so I actually if you're trying to generate demand and

awareness I prefer and this is counterintuitive to what um what most people would want to say I would actually start with a conversion based bidding conversion based bidding what

that means is it's going to show your ad to the people who have showed intent which I still think is the best way to Target things like people have searched this keyword recently or people who visit these type of websites go for an

intent audience do a max conversion because you can scoop up the demand that is already there right now existing and that will also kind of start the campaign off on the right foot to say this is the ad copy that's working these are the channels these are the audiences

these are the demographics your sex your location your average income your age your house you know or your your location all the other good stuff that you're going to be tracking and then you can move to an awareness campaign I actually do really like Target frequency

because you can hit about a four or 5x frequency on a audience that you're trying to achieve is just not it's just not conversion-based bidding so it's it's like okay I know that when people are ready to buy they interact with

these type of messages now let's go blast that to the Airways at one fifth of the CPM and then you can really scale it up but you do have to measure your Topline goal of what are you trying to achieve and are is your endak being

better or worse after switching those strategies got it yep and and you about we had a couple of calls this week with um prospective clients who were sort of

reaching you know reaching a saturation point at least from their perspective on Google but don't do anything on YouTube like and one of their things was all right well once you get the full

funnel once you get all the channels working together then it's like paradise but they said all right well listen we got to dial in our search first before we have you know the money available in

order to go to those other sort of people that are way way way top of funnel brand awareness there's $500 million in Tam ready and available in

search I just want to grab more of that so for cases like that would you bring in YouTube in order to oh you would okay got it here what's interesting about this is I wouldn't bring to such a crazy

high level but the best clients that I've scaled on Direct response inbound search and shopping is when we have also been doing a lot of meta and YouTube and you I can see this I can't share it on the screen it's going through an

acquisition we I I cannot share on screen you have to trust me on this one and I haven't lied to you guys I know who you're talking about been here yeah they're they non-brand

shopping and non-brand search bring like eight to 12% conversion rates first click because of who they are so it's like if you Google best running shoe and

you see like a brand new Nike that you already know everything about because you've been inundated with content that's where you're going if you like it but if you but if you see a a brand new

company called fiky you're not even going to consider it that's that's that's what I wear Fikes come fiky on fiky yogging

shoes um so that's a part where you have to look at how yeah right how much can I can I engage in a market that is going to help my middle of the bottom of the funnel and not just be tacked on and the

way that you measure is when you start to do more brand awareness and more unique selling unique value proposition from a brand perspective you do see that your inbound becomes more efficient and when it becomes more efficient you can

then spend there more because that's now there's more available audience that Google thinks is going to buy if you're using automated bidding because they've already seen your YouTube ad it's the same tag right right so with that

particular customer obviously there's some things that you can do on the search side of the equation obviously some John optimizations for sure at what point do you kind of roll in that

secondary strategy we've talked about YouTube you know and like TV ads yeah it's super super cheap and they say yeah we tried social we could never get

anything like top of funnel work but maybe they just like dumped a whole bunch of money and it didn't really test it like you you gradually dip your toe in the water or do you say hey I'm gonna spend 50k this month and

see how it goes see what my lift is I know my row as you know like what I see probably inside Wicked reports for my YouTube ain't going to look so good but I'm all of a sudden seeing it at the

bottom of the funnel over here like how what would your strategy be there to combine those two so at that point I would also look at have we hit a point of diminishing returns inside of the platform itself like every dollar we put

in now we're getting nothing out so scale it up to the point where you just you know you don't have to tack on additional ads men to scoop up everything that's available once you're saying like hey we hit walls we we there's people that are just too cold or

not aware of us or don't know who we are that we're getting one click on and that's it we've already in we've already instilled YouTube and meta remarketing from those singular clicks they still don't want to buy from us so how do we

proactively go after the people that are not searching that have not heard about us and are just disengaged that is where you do the proactive the proactive portion of it got it got it and you're

still an advocate of TV ads for YouTube I'm an advocate of everything you can run you should run all at once honestly if you have the budget and if you're that growth-minded hop in everywhere

they will all blend together and then you can figure out in efficiencies the cheaper way to do it the slower way is to launch One Max it out launch another one compare launch a third one and see how the lift is exactly yeah but you need that Master

command control like inside Wicked reports in order for that to really work yeah and you see how detailed this is just pausing as took me like two a week of like here's what I'm do and then

let's test it now multiply that by 10 channels it's a lot it's a lot all right well let's get to uh thanks Hunter for your uh for question there and uh he's

taking the live sessions appreciate that buddy uh Larry says uh besides Google ad sales and leads campaigns can another Google campaign objective be used for

demand generation can it work similar to L1 L2 L3 used in Facebook yeah YouTube for sure um the only I don't like demand

gen displays junk um the discovery is it's just kind of like I'm there YouTube specifically um the s the ad sales and leads campaigns I'm guessing when you're

saying Google ad sales and leads campaign uh Google campaign objective oh I see what you're saying um then I see what you're saying you're actually talking about the objective um than the

sales and leads so yes you can use um the brand awareness that goes on target CPM and

Target cpv uh or or manual cpv Target CPM those two can work here's my here's my my asteris to that if

you're not going to use conversion based campaigns like sales and Lead campaigns right that's what he's talking about here he's talking about conversion campaigns got it missed I didn't quite get it either I'm getting it now go

ahead I'm slow when I get there I get there you're there man so you can use um you can use it still has to be YouTube in my opinion if you're looking at

proactive um don't use don't use like manual cpv on or CPC on on display it's just too too body too much bot traffic proactive campaigns yes on YouTube

YouTube you can use sequencing campaigns and frequency campaigns they are the most expensive and are reserved for bigger budgets if you're like hey I'm only gonna spend one or two grand a day

you're you're you're not gonna bypass everybody that wants to buy something from you into the people that have never heard about you yet you're like full funnel for 100 or for 1K never gonna happen when we're running our our

frequency campaigns and our um sequencing campaigns for that other client which I cannot be named we started at like 30k a day um we hired a very famous person well known you know

that kind perfect person to do it it's like it's like getting Tony Robbins for my new book like we were it was great so like okay yes this will work and we have the supportive data to say these people at this time of day in this region with

this interest with this Affinity with this household income with this age with this sex with this everything was ready be like $50,000 go because we have done everything if you're like going a test it test it on your conversion base once

that's tested then you can switch over to I don't care if you want to know about me or not I will beat you to death and I have the cash to do so that's where you you work into the upper levels

of those got it makes sense all right uh will work yes but it's one two three it's very expensive at each level got it

makes sense all right hey John first first of all I love you I love you m he he's he's remaining first named nameless but I like how it's first name nameless

and a mask it could be a future stalker it's cool yeah I did tell someone once I said if I weren't already married I would propos to John Moran but anyway that's a whole other thing so uh for a

new online store what's the best campaign to run at the beginning is it standard shopping campaign pmax or both yeah for a new uh a new store honestly

this is gonna sound really really really shitty pmax uh pmax in the beginning will capture all the demand that it can uh in the beginning and share with you where it's finding pmax will then kill

itself um by over remarketing going after existing customers going to Too Much display because it started to learn in the first like one to two weeks pmax is actually great it's very effective because all the things the reason why

pmax does not work long term the bell curve the reason why pmax was the in the beginning is also the same reason why it it killed itself it's it is too powerful in capturing those conversions

it just then becomes too powerful in capturing the same traffic and this I'm Chan traffic and the same people over and over again and that's when it dies it doesn't scale so beginning run pmax if you're shopping like you were say online store run feed only initially

don't use any sort of targets use maximized conversion value no Taz start that off for like one or two weeks build it up you know as good as you can until you start to see your endak start to increase and more returning customers

come back in from there and the complete future it is dead unless you have Omni Channel traffic just just coming in from all angles like TV organic you know every meta all the other good stuff but

beginning for a singular campaign run pmax run feed only um and then learn what is selling and then switch those over to standard shopping campaigns um got it first two steps that's the first

time I've ever heard you say like use pmax yeah you well my clients don't run pmax so that's that's they're more mature I mean we're talking about a brand new store like this is something

that like you're that money might you know you might not make a whole lot of sales but you're going to gather some data there well the reason why I said pmax 2 is because if you're a brand new store and you're going to run

standard shopping it's like cool run standard shopping then run a display remarketing then YouTube remarketing then meta remarketing so that your first clicks are actually useful but then now you're no longer a new store you got a

10K per month budget yeah yeah for sure but now if you're pmax you get kind of all of that together with the people that are pretty much most ready to buy that can never be your existing customers or your existing traffic

you're brand new yeah but at a certain like at a certain point in this particular case for m Al like a month or so I longer than a month okay good great

recommendations all right this is the kind of stuff you only get from lives Kaden's here hey kayen I know always said hey gang we just it wasn't a question so we skipped over but ah one

my good friends oh there he is hey there he is you know what I recognize kayen um well actually we'll go back up to Larry yeah should we go to Larry Larry already

asked a question K Caden's like your we'll get to both of them we'll get to both we got a couple minutes left here all right so kayen asks if you use the same idea to scale YouTube creatives I'm

not sure which part he's asking he asked it when we were looking at all of the uh uh because that time was 257 so that was about 30 minutes ago that's when we're inside of wicked so got yes um but the

bad part of it is and we've done this with um other tools Kaden that you are actually you're using right now from other companies and you know who I'm talking to always name them by name

uh and it's a good one we we like it the the the cloud people so you can the problem is the clicks are uh like on Tenth of the effectiveness so it's for

me I never could say well if 10 people saw that YouTube ad and another 10 people saw the YouTube ad but two people clicked I got a pool of 20 where 14 may have loved it but

only two of those people clicked I don't know if that's enough data to say how effective is the other you know 14 people that loved it so I usually will look at YouTube in a different sense is

if I get clicks you can Benchmark them you can but your level of spend is going to be much more effective on YouTube than any other channel from what you can share with the click so it's a even

heavier extrapolated but also a much wider range of error so it's like if you if you said hey who's going to win the presidency and you talk to two people you got a you got a 100% error rate but

if you that's that's the two clicks that came in from the 100 views right so that's that's the feedback that I would say so yes but if it is really click really good clickthrough rates and you

have a high amount of activity then yes for sure at least it's directional though exactly it's directional it's just your margin of error with those few clicks for how much money you got to spend and how many people you got to

impress this does not represent that the clicks do not represent the actual impact not not correlated enough to say like all right that's the ad dump the money right uh not a question here but just something that popped into my head

I always call it a UPC code but it's a QR code how much have you done with YouTube like on like Roku TV I see it all the time when I turn on Me YouTube

and you got the QR code how much have you tested that a lot and I have campaigns I've been running for two years delivering very high quality very

expensive 10x return high quality leads that will engage in that QR code like 0.01% of the time like no engagement um no engagement but it works works I'll

get like for every 10,000 views I get or 20,000 views I get I'll probably get one or two QR code scans and I mean we even have some pretty pretty good uh call to actions the best one I saw was with a c

a pet company that you and I know about very well we did that on on some QR codes that were like discounts and and $50 off and 50% off a little bit more clicks but I mean I mean a little bit

more scans but I mean it was like hey we spent $500 how many scans we get it's like 12 like like yeah see it's yeah because I watch most of my YouTube I don't watch on my phone

I actually watch it on my TV so I'm always curious because every now and then I will I I'm inundated by internet marketing ads like everybody's using them but I was very curious about that

one all right thanks for the uh question there Kaden uh we've got time for a couple more here uh sain just seems to love you welcome back John all right

thank you sain and Larry's got another you want to get Larry's question I got a call starting now so I'm going to Blaster these two if we can anybody that comes in afterwards with questions

so sorry cannot take any more here's thew feedback to boost return on investment for the situation single products standard shopping March you monster grade July was really bad August

1st set T negated but all great terms raised budget um feedback for this situation uh July really

best yes I would say that without going into a high level of detail um like there's no other attribution you know you know that kind of stuff I would say compare year-over year is July typically bad like is that summertime for your

winter coat I'm just kidding but you know that's what I mean like check those type of things year-over year because you might be on track but it might see a big dip month over month I would just check there just first but other than that yeah that sounds like the first

first step absolutely right um last thing I would say is check July compare to June and look at all of your products and compare your clicks D you all a sudden clicks on your good items go down 80% and your bad items go up 50% like

check the see that if you didn't just have a shopping campaign well it's a singular product right uh see it seemed like it yeah single product oh yeah no then you're good you're good yeah okay cool I'm going too fast what would you do if you didn't have any access to

attribution swards with with inapp metrics fail would you look at ga4 so I haven't actually used inapp metrics I've always done just like good marketing with solid tactics and measure and I just was gifted by all these cool

companies especially Wicked which is like here's why you're right I'm like yes um so I got really good at being a good marketer like you know how much

Impressions it take to get a demand um you know if you're overspending on Raz only but the the company's failing you got to figure something else out so I kind of school a hard knock this but now

that we have it I would not use I I would not do it without them it's just like purposely trying to close your eyes while you're driving down the highway like you have eyes yeah great yeah you need them but it does cost money to have

those eyes so it's not it's not free which is the hard part about it so anyway all right we are at time here thanks for going over sorry for all the folks that ask questions that we couldn't get to we will be back next

Friday as far as I know same time same channel with John Moran on tier 11 live so thank you for everyone participating and we will see you next week bye-bye

see ya