Millennials Are About To Lose Everything (Here's Why)

The greatest transfer of wealth in human history is about to happen. But there is a major catch. The legacy your parents are leaving you is being debased at scale before it even reaches your hands.

I'm joined again by Peter Dunworth, who manages wealth for some of the world's most successful families. He explains

why the safe assets we've been told to trust our entire lives are now the most dangerous places to store your wealth.

We break down the collateral crisis, why the stock market is facing an unprecedented future selling pressure from retiring boomers, and why your stagnant wages can no longer keep up with the rate of currency debasement.

And wait until you hear Peter's prediction on why mid2026 is a red alert for anyone who's still on the sidelines.

US strategic Bitcoin reserve. Anyone,

you'll want to pay attention to this one. All right, let's dive in.

one. All right, let's dive in.

Peter Dunworth, welcome back to Bitcoin for Millennials. Brian, pleasure to be

for Millennials. Brian, pleasure to be with you. I kind of wanted to start with

with you. I kind of wanted to start with I think something that is touching uh all the millennials that that are listening and uh well basically also all

the all the boomers. You know, we we we hear about this great wealth transfer, right? Like the boomers passing wealth

right? Like the boomers passing wealth to the millennials. And this is something interestingly actually that I read about when I was like kind ofish

into uh into into Bitcoin. But now I realize that that wealth that is being transferred is is not really safe, right? It's in traditional banks or like

right? It's in traditional banks or like traditional brokerage. Um

traditional brokerage. Um and we're seeing this wealth transfer basically happening while the system that it's on or in is kind of cracking

up. So I wanted to yeah kind of start

up. So I wanted to yeah kind of start with exploring with you what what do you think people or well how do you think people should should

think about this? What's the risk of all this wealth all this uh this idea of inheritance for people eventually being inflated away before it even reaches the

the heirs basically.

It's a really good question and I think it it's a very broad question but I think if we peel that question back to its essence what what we as humans do we

basically make judgments on everything that we do and have and what's really interesting about what's happening moving forward that I see anyway is you have

a transfer of wealth that's going to happen there are traditional assets you've got the the housing sector property real estate You've got stocks, you've got bonds, commodities, you name

it. And there is going to be a transfer

it. And there is going to be a transfer of wealth. And a lot of people think

of wealth. And a lot of people think that property prices, stocks, the rest of it are going to crash and and and we're going to live in a, you know, dystopian world. But I don't think

dystopian world. But I don't think that's what's going to happen. What I

think is going to happen, and this is, you know, back to, you know, humans being comparison machines, is there are going to be a number of people who get exceptionally wealthy because they've

picked the right asset for future wealth. And what what I see happening is

wealth. And what what I see happening is if if we go around that board and and this is a really tough tough way for millennials at the moment to start their wealth journey because

traditionally the the fastest way to build wealth has been by buying property leveraging that as hard as you can. Let

that go up 10 20 30 40% whatever it might be in you know 10% a year and then once you've got equity built into that property you go to the bank you borrow more. you buy your second property and

more. you buy your second property and you just keep doing that until you hit the limit of what you can do. And and

that's because you can use other people's money to invest in assets that are appreciating relative to the debasement of the currency. And I don't think that option is available for

millennials moving forward because we've we're kind of at peak debt. So we're up to our eyeballs in debt, which means it's very difficult to have credit growth, which means it's difficult to

have capital growth. um the stock market doesn't offer um meaningful solutions for long-term wealth that I see relative to some other options out there because

you've got um I guess the key metric for looking at you know the value of a company has been to to price the company in what's called price earnings ratios which tells you how cheap or expensive

something is and to put this into context 50 years ago the average uh price earnings ratio of a company in the US was less than seven, six or seven

times. That average today is somewhere

times. That average today is somewhere between 20 and 30 times. And I look at that and think if if the world reverts to mean, which by default mathematically

this has to happen, then the stock market is dramatically overpriced. And I

feel the same way about the property market. And so the bonds I think are

market. And so the bonds I think are uninvestable because you're losing somewhere between 6 to 7% peranom in real terms every year because you've got the debasement of the currency of about

10% peranom plus a 5% inflation rate that may have come down now but it it depends where you are. I look at that and think a lot of these assets are uninvestable relative to what we have

with Bitcoin which is a currency that I think will survive the next thousand years. It will protect you from the

years. It will protect you from the debasement of whatever currency that you're denominated in. Um there's

absolute digital scarcity. There's

global demand once people figure this out from 7 billion or 8 billion people.

And maybe a million to 2 million people on Earth have actually figured out what this thing is. And I look at this and think if I'm a millennial starting out, there's one thing I'm doing and that is trying to get as much Bitcoin as

possible. And on the flip side, the

possible. And on the flip side, the other end of that spectrum, if I'm a baby boomer looking to pass on wealth, the number one thing that I'd be trying to do is get as many of my hard assets, whether it's Bitcoin, whether it's

property, stocks, whatever, um, into and have an allocation to Bitcoin.

>> Yeah, I I think it's fantastic we're touching upon this because one of the things I've realized and also want to focus on more this year is talk about what is the problem that you have,

right? whether you found Bitcoin or not

right? whether you found Bitcoin or not yet is is irrelevant if you don't understand why you would need um uh an

asset like um like Bitcoin and I think maybe good so for for the people that don't know you right like you are a financial adviser for high netw worth individuals families right so you're

dealing with this on on a daily basis so how can someone that has a stagnant wage and lives in in a society or in country

that has a crazy jet debt to GDP ratio.

How can they eventually protect a legacy they might get or or not? Right? I you

know I I think most of us have to work for it. That's kind of the pity. Um what

for it. That's kind of the pity. Um what

do they do when these safe allocations right bonds cash are actually the most dangerous? I think you rais a really

dangerous? I think you rais a really good point. Structurally we have hit a

good point. Structurally we have hit a problem that no one is really talking about. you do a very good job of

about. you do a very good job of explaining that and you have a system that's been set up where the passive

flows have have flown into your index funds, your S&P 500 and whatever the you know the euro equivalent is. And what's

interesting is you're getting baby boomers now who are net receivers, not net contributors to the system. And they

hold the large amount of the wealth. And

what what everyone I think over the next 10 years is really going to comprehend is when the baby boomers start taking out more than they put in that is going

to put huge pressure on the stock market that that we have not seen before. And I

look at this and think this this >> selling pressure. Selling pressure.

>> It's selling pressure. Absolutely. And

this is >> because they need to they need to sell their stock stocks to just live basically.

>> Literally, they need to sell their stock to fund their pensions. And I look at this and I think this is going to be a huge net outflow of liquidity from the stock market. And I look at that and

stock market. And I look at that and think this is the problem in the stock market that you know it might be hundred trillion worth of value but you know over the next 10 years there's going to

be a net outflow of that of that stock market somewhere to the tune of 1 to5 trillion a year. That's a huge pressure release on the price or or a huge

deflator in the value that's coming. And

I don't know where the buyers in the system come from because I look at the millennials I look at the Gen X's.

They're earning nowhere near the amount of money that the baby boomers were earning to contribute into that system.

We sit down and we spend probably close to 50% or more of the time with a new client talking about Bitcoin.

>> And they walk out of the meeting and there's been many comments like, "Why on earth are you spending all your time talking about Bitcoin?" I said, "Because this is the only thing that matters to

protecting your wealth long term. You

don't understand this yet, but this is the only thing that is, well, not the only thing. Over the next 10 years,

only thing. Over the next 10 years, having a 10% allocation of Bitcoin will contribute to 95% of your wealth growing. And they sort of sit there and

growing. And they sort of sit there and the numbers don't run through their head, and they sort of look at me and think, uh, I I don't know what to make of that. This sounds like fairy dust,

of that. This sounds like fairy dust, but I'm I'm here and I'm listening. And

that's where from a from an allocation perspective, the most important thing traditional advisers can do is get as much exposure to Bitcoin as possible because if you look at the supply demand

curve or the liquidity flows into the traditional assets of property and the stock market, they are heavily skewed to the downside over the next 10 years. And

I look at this and think, well, that's not a game I want to play. That's not

where I want to have my money because I want to play where the the field is tilted for me, not against me. And I

look at this and think there might be maybe 2 million people on Earth who understand what Bitcoin is and are really passionate about it, use it, you know, need it, want it, but that's going

to change to billions of people over the next 10 years. And I look at that, I want to be playing the game where I've set up a really good position for myself and my clients in this asset class

that's going to be exponentially growing over the next 10 or 20 years rather than investing in a dying asset class. And

there in lies the opportunity. I I

actually don't think the the property and the stocks are going to fare all that badly over the next 10 years. But

when you look at the debasement, I don't think it's really going to outperform the debasement in stocks, bonds, property. But yeah, there is one asset

property. But yeah, there is one asset that I think will dramatically outperform the debasement and all of those assets over the next 10, 20 years.

And that's where, to your point earlier, generational wealth will be created over the next 20 years. And if you're in those traditional assets, you won't necessarily feel poor because they're

not going to drop dramatically in value over that period of time. But you're

just going to get rich >> nominally.

>> Nomally. Thank you.

>> But if you're in Bitcoin, not only will it go up dramatically in value in real ter in nominal terms, it'll go up dramatically in real terms, too. So, not

only will you be wealthy, you'll feel wealthy.

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devil's advocate, right? Someone who is not into Bitcoin would say like, "Well, Peter, of course you say that because you are into bit into Bitcoin, right?

That's the most basic counter argument."

But can you explain why this is? So I

think the the the dying part thesis of um you know classic asset allocations like like you mentioned you know dying as in not going to zero but like you

said not being able to keep up with the rate of uh the debasement.

Why why is bitcoin different? Why does

that go up? Why do why do people figure this out? What's your what's your take

this out? What's your what's your take on that? Look, there are many different

on that? Look, there are many different reasons and this is where I I' the first thing I would like to have in that conversation is an understanding of

what their background is. So, are they property investors? Are they investing

property investors? Are they investing in stocks, commodities, are they gold guys? What what is the their key driver

guys? What what is the their key driver and understanding from an investment thesis? And then tailor an approach to

thesis? And then tailor an approach to that because there are many different reasons why this is going to go up. The the number one reason I think which is just universal is there is absolute digital

scarcity with Bitcoin. There's only 21 million. There's only ever going to be

million. There's only ever going to be 21 million. But very quickly you can

21 million. But very quickly you can peel back the layers and this is something I think that hasn't got nearly enough attention.

We talk of having a debt problem and without sort of going on a rant which most people have heard this from me.

It's one of my pet peeves. But everyone

talks about having a debt problem, but they don't understand that the only reason you have a debt problem is if there's no collateral to pay the debt when there's a default. And we've

printed all this money. There is no collateral backing this debt. So, we

have a debt problem, but a collateral crisis. And this is where for me the

crisis. And this is where for me the most important thing and and this is the really big picture. Uh maybe a few months ago, not even a couple of weeks

ago, Larry Fe, head of Black Rockck was talking about Bitcoin being able to um come in and tokenize the entire financial system effectively support that. And putting two and two together,

that. And putting two and two together, I think it's really important to understand Larry's background and how this is going to apply to Bitcoin and then the potential for Bitcoin to go up

exponentially on the back of it. And

I'll just give me a few minutes to explain cuz it's relatively complex, but back in the mid80s, Larry Frink masterminded tokenizing the US housing market through mortgage back securities.

He had a vision to tokenize every every asset on earth and get that onto the stock market or get that onto a market that was tradable. Um he was able to do

that. He did that very successfully for

that. He did that very successfully for 25 years. Um and then in 2008 the entire

25 years. Um and then in 2008 the entire world blew up on the back of these mortgage back securities. Now why is this important and what has this got to do with Bitcoin?

uh maybe a week ago, Larry talked about Bitcoin um being able to back the financial system. What's important about

financial system. What's important about that is is that Bitcoin can hold an infinite amount of value and be collateral for the market that we don't have. And so I look at this and think

have. And so I look at this and think what's interesting about this is in order to create the collateral for the market, you need to financialize something. We've already financialized

something. We've already financialized stocks. We financialize bonds. We

stocks. We financialize bonds. We

financialize commodities. We

financialize the property market. There

is nothing left to financialize that doesn't have a downstream mainstream consequence to financializing it. So if

we financialize any of those four assets, we have a huge impact on housing affordability and cost of living. We

create a cost of living crisis and housing inaffordability by financializing housing, mortgages, the rest of it. That exacerbates the problem. What we have in Bitcoin is the

problem. What we have in Bitcoin is the ability to Wall Street for Wall Street to effectively gamble on Bitcoin's

volatility without having mainstream consequences. So, Bitcoin divorces Wall

consequences. So, Bitcoin divorces Wall Street speculation from mainstreet consequence. And what does that mean?

consequence. And what does that mean?

The real kicker here is is that Bitcoin can hold an infinite amount of value to create the collateral that we require we require to financialize the system

because we're effectively trading in solvent in those debt markets. If

everything was liquidated tomorrow, there wouldn't be the collateral to pay it. There'd be 80 90% in losses and it

it. There'd be 80 90% in losses and it would be a flash crash, but we'd have the volatility in property housing stocks that we see in Bitcoin. I think

it's also kind of logical that the Finance Bros and Larry Frink, etc. figured it out. But I I just hope that there is still um space for people to

figure it out. You know, like uh in in 2033, we'll have 99% of all Bitcoin min.

So that's basically a rounding error, right? This is how Michael Sailor talks

right? This is how Michael Sailor talks about it as well. It's just uh until 2033, early 34. This is the the Bitcoin rush. I don't think we're necessarily

rush. I don't think we're necessarily seeing it yet. Definitely not in in 2025. I'm happy that while we're

2025. I'm happy that while we're recording, we're a bit up in uh in the in the green, but like you said, more and more people will figure this out. I

think um there was a lot of talk about a strategic Bitcoin reserve in the US last year. So, not only having the new supply

year. So, not only having the new supply shrinking in the coming 8 years, we have this nation state adoption game theory play thing going on that

we've been talking about for years already. But I heard you talk about uh

already. But I heard you talk about uh that you think that the the US strategic Bitcoin reserve will will actually happen this year like mid this year. Why

why do you think that? And maybe also to add to that, how fast is this window of acquiring Bitcoin closing for the average person? Like why why should

average person? Like why why should someone pay attention?

>> Uh reading the tea leaves as to what's happening politically I think is really important. And

important. And if what I'm looking at is true and correct, I think Trump has a very small window of opportunity to introduce this

strategic Bitcoin reserve before the midterms. If it doesn't happen before the midterms based on current polling, there's no chance of getting that through. He'll be a lamed up president.

through. He'll be a lamed up president.

He'll basically be impeached. Um he'll

be warped. He'll get nothing approved from September moving forward. So on a political timeline, I look at this and think he needs to make that happen before September. And he's already told

before September. And he's already told the world he's, you know, he's put $2 billion into DJT, whatever that stock is. Um, you've got his son, Eric, sits

is. Um, you've got his son, Eric, sits on the board of MetaPlanet and a whole host of other Bitcoin companies that he's interested in. You've heard his sons, both of them talk about uh Bitcoin

and how important it is. They've had an experience as a family of being debanked. I think this is really

debanked. I think this is really important to them. I think they're heavily invested in Bitcoin. And if you look at, without getting conspiratorial, just look at the incentives. I'll show

you the outcome. You look at what he's invested money in. He can't get a 10x return on property because it would basically be called back and it would be reviewed for all sorts of um uh

corruption. He can't invest in the stock

corruption. He can't invest in the stock market. He can invest in Bitcoin and

market. He can invest in Bitcoin and help pump that 10x. And there is no illeg illegality around that whatsoever.

So, I look at this and think he's told you the playbook. Eric's told you the playbook. Don Junior's told you the

playbook. Don Junior's told you the playbook. Basically, everyone in that

playbook. Basically, everyone in that administration is on team Bitcoin. And I

expect there will be a strategic Bitcoin reserve before August this year.

Otherwise, it won't happen. And if you look at recent events, um how true this is, I don't know, but Venezuela had their leader basically taken out by the

the Delta SEAL team. And there is reports that 600,000 Bitcoin was um controlled by Venezuela that will probably now make up a large chunk of the strategic Bitcoin reserve if that

goes ahead. I look at that and think all

goes ahead. I look at that and think all of these things um harbinger of things to come. And I think if you're in and

to come. And I think if you're in and around this space and you've missed the message on what the most powerful government on earth to ever exist is planning and you're not going to frontr run that, I think this is the first and

only opportunity in history that um the plebs have had the opportunity to frontr run nation state adoption. And and this is where in light of and in context to everything that's happening in the world

now, property massively overvalued, stock market overvalued, bonds are uninvestable, and you're about to have nation state adoption where literally every country on earth is going to have to have a

strategic reserve and foreign reserves in Bitcoin. And you're sitting there

in Bitcoin. And you're sitting there wondering if you're still wondering whether or not you should have some Bitcoin. Like, I don't I don't know what

Bitcoin. Like, I don't I don't know what to tell you. But these are the facts. Do

your own research and and look at this.

But if you're sort of missing some of the clues that are being put down as to what to expect over the next say 5 to 10 years, I can't see an asset class that's

going to come close to an outlook that Bitcoin has. Mhm. Yeah.

I think it's interesting because a lot of people uh obviously say no, it will be gold or silver because uh I I jokingly always say like Yeah, because gold is used in computers and cavities

and jewelry, right? Like that is why that is why it's perfect money. Same for

silver because it's so important for the computers as well, right? Like it it is old school thinking. And I I think what helped me along the way is also

realizing that in the past stuff like this has happened with many inventions, right? It's like we found this. This is

right? It's like we found this. This is

the the the safety and gunpowder analogy. I just love that so much. It's

analogy. I just love that so much. It's

like you have bows and arrows and you're hanging around in your whatever society, country, uh, and then there's like ships on the horizon and there's these guys, they have gunpowder and they shoot projectiles at you and you're like,

"Wow, wow, yeah, that gunpowder." Like,

is that environmentally sustainable or like what? You come up with all these

like what? You come up with all these freaking arguments, but they all give you head shots and you're dead and it's and it's and it's done, right? And

done, right? And I don't I don't know if that's the case with with Bitcoin, but it's like if you either have it or or you don't and you will be passed, right? It's the same as

with I don't know steam engine, book press, printing press, right? Like cars.

So it's it's always the same. Mobile

phones, computers, like everyone who moved first had the biggest hurdles, right? the biggest volatility, the

right? the biggest volatility, the biggest um you know um how do you say like um you know people commenting on that it's stupid or why would you use

that or you know the biggest dismissal arguments ever. But eventually when you

arguments ever. But eventually when you are early and you see the direction the only thing you need to do is literally huddle hold on for dear life and just

just just wait and keep on challenging the thesis and seeing if you need to adjust course but I I I agree with you also eventually in like a multipolar

world if you still want if that trust is gone right if the trust in in the in the dollar is gone And there is this multipolar world.

There's still people that and countries that hate each other but still want to trade with each other, right? Like this

has always been uh the case. The whole

world is going digital. Why would you use gold or an abstract of gold?

Um I think it's interesting why China is putting up all these gold deposits in the world, right? I I I don't think it makes uh sense but well for them it makes sense because if they would pick

Bitcoin they would lose you know control of their entire currency. Um

>> you would give people a way out. Yeah,

sorry. you you rais a really really important point and I think in the last say 6 or 12 months there has been a complete zeitgeist shift and what we're

coming into an era of is basically and I I say this in Jess but there is some fundamental truth to it basically no one cares anymore no one cares moving forward the thought of sending in you

know just in the last week we've seen the the US president sent in the SEAL team to pick up basically Maduro the the president of Venezuela And what did the rest of the world do?

They're in shock. They can't believe this happened. And guess what? No one

this happened. And guess what? No one

cares. The US did it. You know why they did it? Because they can. And there's a

did it? Because they can. And there's a whole host of Venezuelans. It is it is completely bonkers.

>> But guess what? The US doesn't care. And

and what we're going to see more and more moving forward is they did it because they can. And there's nothing anyone can do about it. And this is what's going to be really interesting when you pair this back to the assets

that you want to hold. What is the asset that you want to hold when this type of world starts proliferating? There's only

one asset you want to hold and that is Bitcoin because that's the only asset that they can't take. You got property, you think it's your property, that's not your property. You still pay rates.

your property. You still pay rates.

You've got a mortgage. You've got um land tax to pay. You've got a whole host of maintenance that you've got to uphold on it. You're paying debts on that for

on it. You're paying debts on that for the rest of your life in perpetuity. You

don't own you don't own it. And if you stop any of those payments, someone can come and collect that asset from you.

When it comes to stocks, is it your asset? It's your asset until the

asset? It's your asset until the government says it's not your asset. And

this is what's so critical about self-custody Bitcoin is when you self-custody your Bitcoin, that is your Bitcoin. There's nothing anyone can do

Bitcoin. There's nothing anyone can do to take that. And if you structure it, secure it properly, look after it, this is the ultimate asset moving forward when the world doesn't care and we're

about to enter crazy times. So, I look at that and think just on a self-preservation perspective, if you don't have any Bitcoin now, I personally I think this is the perfect

time to buy some because over the next 5 to 10 years, as more and more of these crazy situations come to pass and this type of behavior gets normalized, there's really only one asset you want

to be holding.

>> I mean, it's it's interesting, right?

Because I think this is part of the what I mentioned in the beginning the the realization of a certain problem you have right like there's this personal

problem of of um monetary uh debasement the fact that all these classic asset allocations are basically um have have real negative rates of returns right

like like the bonds that that you mentioned so there's like this you have a micro problem but there's also this whole macro thing going on even in the bigger psychology with like fourth

turning and and stuff like that, right?

So I fully agree with you again whether you have found Bitcoin yet or not. What

are you doing today is uh I think I think the big question and thinking everything will be all right which I

would love to think is the case. Um yeah

it's it's not and I I think history is also again a a guide to yeah showing that urgency.

>> Yeah.

>> Well but then when when we think about the urgency uh what I asked you before the what's the window how fast do you think this goes when you think about

these things happening plus going to 90 90% mind? Ah, look, I think this all

90% mind? Ah, look, I think this all happens in the next 10 years and the sooner you can get this sorted out, the better. And anecdotally, I'll tell you a

better. And anecdotally, I'll tell you a story. Um,

story. Um, I bumped or met basically a lovely couple. They're sort of mid70s. Um,

couple. They're sort of mid70s. Um,

they've been living in London for the last 20 years. Um, very very successful, very successful. And they were telling

very successful. And they were telling me that, um, they're basically moving out of London and they're not going to have a home. And we had a joke about them being homeless because they're

probably the furthest thing from homeless that you can imagine. But, you

know, they're ahead of the curb. They're

basically looking at what's happening in in the UK with the inheritance taxes that are coming on. They don't want to pay 40 or 50% or 55% inheritance tax to transfer their assets to their children.

And to avoid and get ahead of that problem, they're literally just moving overseas, taking their assets with them.

And fast forward, you know, basically there's going to be no no ability for the UK government to tax them moving forward and they'll just live in a whole host of different

jurisdictions throughout the year and they're happy to travel and keep that up because they want to be ahead of it. And

this is the bigger problem is that our governments are broke. When you bring things down to the micro level, everything becomes very clear from an economics perspective. If I told you,

economics perspective. If I told you, hey, I want to borrow uh $100 from you and I had the ability to print more

money.

Why? And and I did literally produce 10% more money each year. Why on earth would you lend me money? I look at this and think there's no way on earth anyone would lend anyone money if they

understood the person they were giving money to had the ability to print more of it. and to basic and probably an

of it. and to basic and probably an analogy I love maybe with the Australian background is if you went to the pub and you ordered a beer and you saw that

barman fill up the the glass 90% with beer and then poured 10% water into it, there would be an outrage globally over someone diluting your beer. But when the

government does that to our money on an annual basis, everyone's cool with it because we never see it. We never understand it. So, um,

see it. We never understand it. So, um,

we talked about how bonds are, uh, might be considered a scam. My words, not yours. Um, I have also heard you talk

yours. Um, I have also heard you talk about bit bonds. So, if we think about bitcoin being used as the collateral,

right? Uh, absolutely

right? Uh, absolutely verifiable transparent etc. How how can bit bonds work? What what

what does that entail? And how do you see a future for them if any?

I I think this is a huge opportunity for governments, companies, the banking system globally to recapitalize the financial markets and their balance

sheets. So we have a problem in that

sheets. So we have a problem in that they're effectively trading insolvent both the banks and the the governments.

And in a traditional bond there is no opportunity to create equity. And this

is this is the problem in that you can't solve a debt or a collateral problem by issuing more bonds because it's 100% debt and there's no equity involved in this. And this is where bit bonds

this. And this is where bit bonds bitcoin bonds offer offers an opportunity to create equity in the system. And let let me explain how this

system. And let let me explain how this would work. You can issue bonds and and

would work. You can issue bonds and and bonds are a funny funny thing in that the governments in jurisdictions can mandate that their banks hold bonds as security. they can mandate that

security. they can mandate that insurance companies uh have to hold bonds. And I think if if they allow the

bonds. And I think if if they allow the ability for these banks and insurance companies to hold bit bonds or bitcoin bonds as opposed to traditional

treasuries, there is an opportunity for us to create equity holding those bonds and effectively create the equity that we need to collateralize the system. And

let me tell you how this would work. In

a five-year Bitcoin bond, you could have a principal protected note where you staple 80% of the note of of that

structure with treasuries and 20% in Bitcoin. Now, how this works and this is

Bitcoin. Now, how this works and this is a little bit complicated and I'll try and make it simple, but over the over the 5 years, the 80% in treasuries would

grow to the 100% in nominal terms that you initially put in. So your capital is 100% protected in nominal terms, not real terms, but nominal. And that 20%

extra, you take and you go and buy Bitcoin with it. And that then if if the last five years performance is the same as I I guess if the next five years

performance is the same as the last five years performance that 20x that 20% in the Bitcoin bond in Bitcoin will go 10x

what the current value is. So if you invest a billion dollars into this principal protected note you'll be able to have your billion dollars back in the form of the treasuries that is compounded to that billion dollar value.

But you'll also have $2 billion sitting in Bitcoin that you never had prior. Now

that will give the investor an average return of 17% peranom. And there are a whole host of regulations that the government can change to enable banks to do that and hold that in lie of

treasuries. And so all of a sudden

treasuries. And so all of a sudden you're going to create probably 10 to 20 well 5 to10 trillion worth of demand for Bitcoin that will then inflate the

prices even further. and it will solve the problem that we have where there's no collateral there's they're effectively trading in solvent. So we're

actually creating equity by issuing debt. Now this is this is quite a

debt. Now this is this is quite a revolutionary concept because up until now there was no way to create equity from these from these principal protected notes. And you don't want that

protected notes. And you don't want that equity driving up values in property.

You don't want it driving up property uh stock stock values or commodity prices.

>> Exactly. You want it going into an asset that is not going to affect your cost of living.

>> Yes. So this is I think a very good point right like we have been talking about kind of like the the the convergence on

the you have a problem uh statement right in in many different ways. But

just like an individual has problems, a government also has problems, right?

Because you cannot just say, this is what I wanted to say before. Some people

also say, well, America can just erase the debt.

Well, for you random person on the internet saying that that wouldn't be a happy day, right? So there they the the the governments are also into in a

certain position where they have to actively look for an out and how you are describing bit bonds to me I feel like on one side there's this just all the

bonds right which is not a sustainable thing and then you introduce this new asset and you're slowly siphoning well you're creating new demand here but there it's like a bridge that over time it's like

bridge.

>> Correct.

>> Right. So you you put extra capital nominal here which is fucking worthless, right? Like that is irrelevant. But the

right? Like that is irrelevant. But the

system you cannot make a hard switch. So

you need to just still put money in there. You slowly siphon it to Bitcoin.

there. You slowly siphon it to Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is absolutely scarce. Price goes

up. You you have to start doing that more and more and more. And while this side is kind of like slowly imploding but more in a controlled way, this other

side is aggressively going up.

>> Right.

>> Yeah.

>> And this is a way that countries could actually Well, it's funny because this is kind of like the the the most responsible way they could do it, right? Instead of

CBDC's and whatnot, more control and whatever. But the funny thing here is

whatever. But the funny thing here is that game theory wise, and this is what I absolutely love about Bitcoin, the first country that's going to do this is

going to have immediate, I think, um, results, positive results.

>> Mhm.

>> And then the game theory is really simple. Like do I want to be like a

simple. Like do I want to be like a technocratic technocratic tyrant putting all my people on CBDC's and control them because or else you know I blow up and I

don't really want to say I was a bad you know financial um operator for my country and taxes are theft and blah blah blah. Maybe we can just give them

blah blah. Maybe we can just give them prosperity and abundance by buying Bitcoin. And this is what I just loved.

Bitcoin. And this is what I just loved.

It it it boils down to that basically.

This is the fun part that we get to see.

And this is why I like talking about these things because I think traditional finance hasn't had a way to solve the problems that they've caused for themselves. But this represents a very

themselves. But this represents a very real option for them that is only going to create the the side effect of this is going to create Bitcoin millionaires.

The alternative is death and destruction usually through a war or many. And this

is the problem that we've had. We with

the current system, we don't have the ability to have a debt jubilee like we've had in the past. And the last major debt jubilees that we had were World War I and World War II. I guess

the third debt jubilee that we had was when the US went off the gold standard and allowed their currency to inflate.

So I look at this and think now that we don't have any other levers to pull unless we want to go to war and totally wipe out things and then create the debt jubilee that way. I look at this and

think this is actually a oneplus 1 makes three opportunity for the world to embrace. Now yes there are going to be

embrace. Now yes there are going to be winners but there aren't going to be losers. The alternative for this is

losers. The alternative for this is basically death and destruction. And so

I'm really pushing hard for this Bitcoin bond to come through. I I would love to see the US make the regulations that instead of treasuries they can hold these Bitcoin bonds. I'd love to see

treasuries give full weight of capital or par value of that instrument at the end of of the period so that they can buy a Bitcoin bond and they can have the

full value of the end of that contract on their balance sheet for the 5-year period or the 10-year period and that would give them immediately 20% equity in Bitcoin. And if that thing goes 10%

in Bitcoin. And if that thing goes 10% in the next five years, they've literally created double the amount of equity for the debt that they issued.

This is the way we solve the debt problem.

>> You effectively create equity >> to avoid or to pay back the debt.

>> And this is the only way that this can be done that I see. And sadly um and I know it comes with a very colored lens through Bitcoin, but there's no other asset that has the ability to take an

infinite amount of value without downstream consequences. And this is why

downstream consequences. And this is why Bitcoin is such a a beautiful thing. So

basically inflating the depth away but into an absolutely finite asset instead of like you said before

homes and stocks and and stuff like that, right? Like what would touch

that, right? Like what would touch >> people's lives immediately, >> right? Because that would be a bad

>> right? Because that would be a bad political decision. I think that's the

political decision. I think that's the the right.

>> Yeah. It' be a horrible one. And you

look at this and you think, well, if you were to inflate the property prices or the stock market, you you adversely impact the entire population because everything gets more expensive, living

gets more expensive. The the flip side is is that if you monetize the Bitcoin and inflate the price of Bitcoin, the there's no disadvantage to the existing householders, the the house the

homeowners or the renters in the market.

It doesn't increase the cost of living.

the only thing you're doing is making a very small subset of introverts and quite quirky people who are Bitcoiners extremely rich.

>> Mhm.

>> And I look at that and think, well, do you want to have do you want to piss off 100% of the population or do you want to let 1% or less of the population become

extremely wealthy with the opportunity for everyone in the world to take advantage of that too? And I think I would much rather the optimistic outlook than the pessimistic outlook because the

downside is and this is the problem that we've had that we haven't had a major world war in 80 years or more. That the

world's forgotten we we we've got basically most of you know that generation who fought in the war has has died. There's no living memory of how

died. There's no living memory of how bad those times were. And that's what's what I find really fearful is we've got a lot of people in the world who are wararmongering thinking that this is a really good option for us. And I'm like,

"No, this is a really horrible option when utopia is one of the options on the table."

table." >> Yeah. So, do you think that uh you you

>> Yeah. So, do you think that uh you you mentioned in the beginning the the US government is very pro Bitcoin, although how they talk about it kind of like goes

goes up and down, right? It's not a constant uh thing. Do you think they are actively doing this? Is this something that they are going to to pursue?

I'm hoping for for our sake that this is something they do pursue. I think we've seen uh Morgan Stanley in October, excuse me, JP Morgan in November. They

issued Bitcoin bonds, they've dipped their toe in the water and they've issued it. And I think we are going to

issued it. And I think we are going to see a lot more of this. Once those two companies realize they can make a fortune with this product, they will then proliferate that. And I dare say JP

Morgan, Jamie Diamond, um, and all the other CEOs of the bank will say, "We want the legislation changed so that if we're holding treasuries, we can swap that into Bitcoin bonds >> as long as those Bitcoin bonds have

purchased US treasuries."

>> And then that is the way they solve the problem.

It's so interesting when you think about, you know, the the most entertaining outcome is the most likely, I think, is a is partially a good way to

uh build conviction, but also like how we talked about it now, there aren't really that many other

options. I think even the war part like

options. I think even the war part like you said although you know the US is flexing muscles right now etc there is no money

to go to real real war.

>> Yeah. So they don't have the option is also >> um I think diminishing like it's just not a good opportunity

>> and and that's why I like the game theory just thinking thinking about it.

It's it's it's yeah the most entertaining outcome is the most like it's just the most it's the simplest thing that they could do.

Uh but it's hard to gro. I think it's that right the the action is not >> well it's a it's a long time and this is where when we come back to when we bring that thought back to the liquidity flows

of the stock market you're going to have a net circuit 2 to5 trillion flowing out of the hundred trillion stock market but if we were able to implement that

strategy of those Bitcoin bonds being able to be effectively um you could swap them for Bitcoin bonds with treasuries um there $70 trillion

of of treasuries issued peranom or bonds issued peranom. What happens if $14

issued peranom. What happens if $14 trillion 20% of that goes into bitcoin every year? This is where from an

every year? This is where from an investment perspective, these are the concepts I like to talk about because it's the the solutions are

the best riskreward that we have in in current financial markets which don't seem that out of whack and have the potential to obviously boost Bitcoin's

price dramatically. So imagine $14

price dramatically. So imagine $14 trillion flowing into Bitcoin with that absolute digital scarcity and less and less Bitcoin being available on a peranom basis to buy. This is where you

know the outrageous um valuations for Bitcoin that we've seen and talked of all of a sudden they don't seem that outrageous. I mean this is what I have

outrageous. I mean this is what I have every time I talk with you uh and I want to ask you about you know what you think about price etc. I because uh I'm think

I I did this recently when I looked at the holder waves like 55 maybe it changed now a bit with this dip but when I looked at it about like 58%ish

61% of all Bitcoin didn't move in two or more years >> which I think is quite a staggering amount. I don't know what you think, but

amount. I don't know what you think, but I think like those are all people that understand what this is.

>> And they went from 69 to 15, 16, back up, a little down, right? People know

what that is because once you see this, you're going to be I jokingly said, my mother always asks when when Bitcoin goes up like, "Are you going to sell it now? For what?" And then I say like,

now? For what?" And then I say like, "For what?" Right? Like for what? Like

"For what?" Right? Like for what? Like

because when you understand that um plus you see this macro environment this this these

different paths of which some are not necessarily good good ones good avenues to go down to I don't think it's irrational to think like you said this

is an asymmetric opportunity but it's a it's a wild one right the volatility is crazy. People think you're crazy. Um, but how we're talking about

crazy. Um, but how we're talking about it now, and this is also how I ended up on Bitcoin, it's just it's quite rational in my opinion.

>> I agree. And that's the funny part.

>> And when you tell people that it seems rational, here's the conclusion that I've come to based on this. It it just reinforces in those people's minds just

how crazy you are. But I I find this very very amusing on a personal level that >> with a straight face you can tell someone who thinks you're totally crazy that no this is the most sound thing that you can do

>> with your money. And I I look at this and think very soon the world will understand what this is and actually a point which is quite a side note but to your point on the huddle waves 58%. I

think through time those huddle waves are going to get bigger and bigger. And

just to talk on a point that got overlooked dramatically last year, which I think I I'll just put down as the most important thing to happen in Bitcoin last year from a an adoption

perspective, was the repeal of SAB 121 that allowed the banks to now custody Bitcoin without it being disqualifying from a costbenefit analysis. They no

longer had to hold reserves. That was

the big thing about SAB 121. that is

going to open the door for banks to custody Bitcoin which it has and on the back of custody the banks are going to be able to produce savings and loans

products with Bitcoin now and my expectation through time is once the banks are now you know basically custodying Bitcoin and offering loans

and savings accounts in Bitcoin those huddle waves are going to continue to to increase over time they're not going to decrease through time so the long arc of time over the next 10 years, we're going

to have more and more that that hodddle wave is going to move from 58% to probably 80 85% over the next 10 years.

And when people aren't selling Bitcoin and they're financializing their asset by borrowing in fiat on that, the price goes up dramatically on the back of that. And this is something that I don't

that. And this is something that I don't think people really understand. I also

heard you say you you believe we're about to have like a golden run. Of

course, there was a certain lag behind expectations last last year which for me the best explainer is that it's mostly

connect connected to like business cycle etc. When we talk through the macro type drivers here and of course especially

focusing on on the US how do you think this cycle is different from previous ones? Is the four-year cycle dead? Is

ones? Is the four-year cycle dead? Is

this time different? And then what do you see as a price for for this year?

>> Oh, good question. Um, yes, the cycles the four year cycles are dead. I think

that was coming. Um, that was a diminishing return on or diminishing impact of the haring and the the block block subsidy reducing to a point where

it's now dimminimous. uh it's not a big deal in Bitcoin and the advent of institutional adoption in the very real sense means that there's now huge amounts of liquidity moving around that

are going to have a bigger impact than the havinging ever could. I think we are setting ourselves up for a generational run in Bitcoin over the next 10 years.

We're we're going to see dare I say it no major draw down of more than 50% over the next 10 years and it's

going to be up and to the right. So now

I think is the perfect time to be buying Bitcoin because we've now got institutional adoption. We've laid out a

institutional adoption. We've laid out a whole host of options that institutions have to buy Bitcoin, whether it's the ETF, whether it's the Bitcoin bonds, government adoption, all of these things

will happen and they are going to compound through time over the next 10 years. So I look at this and think the

years. So I look at this and think the weight of capital and if you look at your personal experience in this you typically start out with a little bit of Bitcoin and then or you purchase a

little bit of Bitcoin maybe 1 to 2% of your assets then you put in 5% 10% 20%.

And before you know it you're over 75% of your net assets are in Bitcoin maybe even 100% for some people and I look at this and think that's the logical conclusion that you and I go on a

personal journey with. Now the

institutions that are adopting this, the governments that are adopting this, they're made up of people. They're going

to have the exact same journey that we've had. It just might take them 10 or

we've had. It just might take them 10 or 20 years to achieve that in completion.

So I look at this and think I don't think it's outrageous to think we have somewhere between a 40 to 200% gain in Bitcoin in the next 12 months. And

what's going to be really critical is what happens around this strategic Bitcoin reserve. because I look at that

Bitcoin reserve. because I look at that and the announcement of the US saying that we're going to have a strategic Bitcoin reserve is the starters gun for a nation state race in adoption of

Bitcoin.

>> Yeah, I think uh that's probably a great ender. I want to thank you again for

ender. I want to thank you again for your time and very engaging uh conversation with a lot of new touch points and things to think about.

So, thanks a lot and um yeah, we'll stay in touch and we we'll see how it goes this year.

>> I uh I look forward to it. really

appreciate being able to catch it catch up with you, Bram, and thankful and grateful for all the great work you do.

So, keep it up. It's awesome.

>> Thank you. Cheers. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, you can click

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