NASA Apollo Astronaut Finally Faces Off Against #1 Moon Landing Skeptic

All right, gentlemen. Uh, thank you both for being here. Mr. Charlie Duke, it's a pleasure to meet you.

>> Thank you very much.

>> Bart Crell, thanks again.

>> Sure.

>> for traveling halfway across the world to come here and hang out with me and Charlie Duke.

>> To start this thing off, I want to basically introduce both you guys.

Charlie, you are an Apollo astronaut, one of the last four surviving Apollo astronauts, the 10th man to walk on the moon on the Apollo 16 moonlanding

mission.

And Bart, you are the world's leading proponent in the moonlanding hoax hypothesis, I'll call it. Uh, and you've

made you spent this has been your life's work basically proving that or trying to make the case that the Apollo moonlanding program was a American

propaganda campaign during the Cold War and it was all filmed on a set and they never actually went to the moon. Does

that does that sum it up pretty well?

>> Pretty much half my life anyway. The

first half I believe they went to the moon.

So, um, [clears throat] obviously like last the last time you and I talked, we thought it would be great a great idea to have you debate somebody on this. I don't know. Have you

ever done a debate on this with anybody?

>> No. To me, that would be like debating if the sky is blue. It's blue and they did fake the moon landing. I'd bet my life on it. Now,

>> a little bit pull pull your mic a little closer. So the people normally they

closer. So the people normally they propose to debate me are victims of the deception which I have no interest in in

beating up a you know someone who's a victim that I said find somebody who's a perpetrator either one of the astronauts or a NASA administrator and you did here

he is here I am >> so Charlie Duke um could you please give us a little background in in your history and how you got involved in the Apollo program in the

Uh [clears throat] I was a fighter pilot in the Air Force. Uh went to MIT, got a master's degree in graduated 64. Uh went

to test pilot school and uh graduated 65, summer 65. And I'd met some astronauts

summer 65. And I'd met some astronauts that had come to uh MIT. Uh they had the contract to build the Apollo guidance and navigation system. And I was working

on that system and all gung-ho guys. And

so uh I decided to uh uh take their advice, go to test pilot school and maybe have a chance at space program.

Couple of months after I graduated from test pilot school in the summer of 65, uh NASA had another call for astronauts

and uh four of us at Edwards applied and we all got accepted. So, and and it would be May or so of 1966, we we went

to Houston and started working on Apollo. So, [clears throat] during this

Apollo. So, [clears throat] during this conversation, I want to do some some I want to take some time to do some back and forth on some of the cases Bart has

made in his documentaries. And um but before we do that, I want to spend some time going through your personal story and your firsthand account on the Apollo

missions. Um does that sound good to

missions. Um does that sound good to you?

>> Okay.

>> So, at what age, how old were how old were you when you first learned about um the US government gearing up to go into space and this the whole space race and all this stuff?

Uh well I remember u the uh first human beings uh that went into space Gagarin

in ' 61 and Allan Shepard followed him.

Uh and uh right after that uh uh I found out now that uh the the Russians were beating us in space and so

uh Kennedy put out a desire of what how can we beat him and Warner Von Braun said we can beat him to the moon and I've got a

copy of the letter that he sent to President Kennedy and he said okay we'll go to the moon so he committed to the Apollo program and uh that was it. Do

>> you remember how old you were?

>> Well, I was it was in 60 61 or two. So, I was born in 35. So, I

was 30 less than 30 years old.

>> Oh, wow.

>> Yeah.

And I remember seeing specifically there were interviews with I think this might have been a von Bronn interview from your documentary where they were

asking Von Brawn about the space race with Russia and he was explaining it in an analogy to where he said Russia's already in a full sprint. We haven't

even started walking yet. Like we have to gear up. We have a long time to gear up and to speed up before we're even running at the same pace they are before we have to do all that before we can

even think about closing the gap between us and Russia.

>> Well, that might be true. I don't

remember that level of detail, but I do have a copy of the letter that he sent to uh President Kennedy, I believe it was, that said the only way we can beat

him is beat him to the moon. And so they committed to the moon and [snorts] uh by the end of the decade which I thought was crazy. I mean 15 minutes in space

was crazy. I mean 15 minutes in space and we going to land on the moon in the next eight year eight eight and a half years.

>> Turns out I sitting in mission control in uh July of 1969. Eight years and two months later and I'm talking to Neil Armstrong on the moon.

Let's go to the point where you first decided like like how did the process work for you to be chosen to be selected for this program?

>> I had gradu as I said I had graduated from the test pilot school at at Edwards Air Force Base in the summer of 65

>> and in September of that year I saw an ad in a paper that's NASA's looking for more astronauts. Please apply.

more astronauts. Please apply.

>> So I had to I was in the Air Force. I

had to go through the official channels.

So I they told me what to do and I submitted my application along with Stu Russa and Alan Ward, Al Warden, uh Hank Hartzfield. We were all in the same

Hank Hartzfield. We were all in the same test pilot school class and Joe Engel was out there. He some he he applied and there was a lot of people applied and uh

they were looking for test pilots uh and my age and height and everything like that. When you say test pilot, you mean

that. When you say test pilot, you mean test pilot for the the space the space program?

>> No, test pilot for the air force.

>> The air force. Okay.

>> We were all at Edwards Air Force Base, the ones I'm speaking about. And then we had others selected that came from the naval >> test pilot school uh which was in Puxit,

Maryland.

>> And then how did you and then how did that evolve into the idea of going to the moon, working on the moon missions?

Uh I'm not sure that the moon the moon missions were had been determined. That's what we were working

determined. That's what we were working on.

>> And uh if we applied we would have a chance to work on the Apollo program.

>> Was there a moment for you where you thought like I want to I want to be one of the guys to go to the moon or I want to I want to be a part of that program to put man on the moon. Uh that was the

call by NASA is to you if you got selected as astronaut you'd be a part of the Apollo program. So you had no guarantee you going to fly to the to the

moon and no guarantee that it was even going to be completed >> but uh I wanted to be an astronaut. It

was the best job you could have as a test pilot.

>> And then what was that training like to become an astronaut? And how long did it take?

Well, it depends on what you call training. We uh our group, it was 19 of

training. We uh our group, it was 19 of us. We reported to Houston and first

us. We reported to Houston and first like the 1st of May 1966.

And u we started learning NASA ease, you know, how how does NASA work and what who's got responsibility? This that and the other. And uh they decided also if

the other. And uh they decided also if if we going to go to the moon, we ought to know what kind of rocks to pick up.

And so we started a big extensive training in geology and uh we not only had classroom work uh but we also had

field trips once a month uh generally and that was two or three days somewhere uh in the US somewhere in sometimes in

Hawaii sometimes in Canada but mostly in the US is we did a geology trip got into the field and learned how to pick up the right kind of rocks

And what were you what was going through your mind when I mean you're a young guy and you're this is 66 3 years before

Apollo 11 um you're trained to become an astronaut learning about geology like what what was going through your mind at that point like what was your like were

you optimistic that this was going to happen? Were you were you skeptical?

happen? Were you were you skeptical?

Were you fearful? I I was optimistic that Apollo was going to happen. I

wasn't so optimistic that I'd get a chance to go. We were the junior guys.

>> And so uh it uh it turned out that uh some of the senior guys left. John

Glenn, uh Wally Shira after Apollo 7 retired. And so a lot of the older guys

retired. And so a lot of the older guys started retiring. So we sort of bubbled

started retiring. So we sort of bubbled up into the mix. and uh Dick Sllayton who was the uh and Allan Shepard who

were the two chop top astronauts. They

started picking people to train and uh and so we they were trying to balance the crew and give us younger guys some experience. So most of the crews that

experience. So most of the crews that were selected had u a senior guy that had been that had

flown in space. He was the commander and then a lot of the crews had two rookies uh that came from our group mostly.

>> And how did you come to meet von Braonn?

>> Uh one of my first jobs as a um as an astronaut uh was uh to monitor the development of the Saturn 5. Stu Russa

myself. And uh so the best way to do that was to go up and meet Bron Barn and sit in on his staff meetings to see how the Saturn 5 was progressing and uh was

this thing going to really fly. And so

every month we'd go up and sit in on his staff meeting and he became a I wouldn't say a friend, but he recognized us every time we walked in and says, "Well,

welcome Charlie. Welcome Stu." and and

welcome Charlie. Welcome Stu." and and uh we'd sit in and listen to his meet uh briefings on his staff meeting and then we'd go back and report to the astronaut

office on Monday morning. Every Monday

morning we'd have a couple hour meeting and what was going on in the program and Stu and I give a briefing every time we got back.

>> So you would explain to the other astronauts what the progress was on the Saturn 5 rocket. That's correct.

depending on like what did you have any like personal conversations with Von Braonn about this or or uh >> Well, mostly just he recognized us and he accepted us and uh

>> I can't say he became a real good friend but uh he certainly knew who we were and uh we resp I respected him highly and uh they were doing a good job. Turned out

the Saturn 5 never had a failure, not one.

>> That's pretty astonishing. And all of the flights of Apollo, they lost one engine and I think it was on Apollo 13, but one engine goes out, it's you can still make

it in orbit.

>> Wow.

>> In fact, it was such a good machine. Stu

Russo and I went to Ames Research Center and they wrote a program. Can astronauts

literally fly the Saturn 5 into space manually? And we proved we could not

manually? And we proved we could not very efficiently, but we could get it into orbit.

>> Wow.

>> But they decided not to use that >> program. And so it never was

>> program. And so it never was implemented. But uh

implemented. But uh >> uh we spent a month or so out at proving that you could fly the Saturn 5 in into orbit.

>> What made the Saturn 5 so superior even to rockets that we have today?

I think >> I mean obviously obviously wasn't reusable but >> I think it was just good technology and a simple uh you know there wasn't

anything complicated about the Saturn 5.

The engines were huge and they were test fired and uh it was uh uh nitrogen and no not nitro hydrogen and oxygen. I I

don't remember what the fuel was but uh anyway they were very reliable and engines huge uh 1.5 million pounds

thrust each on the first stage. And uh

so that was a 7 1/2 million pounds of thrust lifting 6 1/2 million pounds.

And uh you were up on the top and the only thing I remember of a liftoff was the vibration. You didn't have any noise

the vibration. You didn't have any noise from the engines that was all going sideways. But the thing shook. It was

sideways. But the thing shook. It was

like being on a 360 long limber fishing pole and you were up at the top and somebody shaking it down here which was the engines and was vibrating from side to side. Not a pogo but a vibrate from

to side. Not a pogo but a vibrate from side to side >> like swaying back and forth.

>> Yeah. Very high high frequency though.

>> Mhm.

>> And amplitude was maybe that far.

>> Mhm.

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linked down below. Now, back to the show. And so, um, [clears throat]

show. And so, um, [clears throat] during Apollo 11, the the first on Neil Armstrong's mission to the moon, you were what was your role in that?

>> Uh, I was at uh Capcom. I'd done the same thing on Apollo 10.

and uh where they took the lunar module to the moon but weren't going to land and so that had gone well and uh Neil asked me to why don't you be Capcom for us I mean you got the experience

>> oh he asked you >> yeah wow >> and cuz I wasn't on the on the crew of any way involved but he said would you do that and I said sure you it'd be

great honor and so we practiced for two months and uh uh simulations the crews in the simulator. We're in mission

control and we practice four or five hours a day generally and uh for the landing part.

>> So what so what specifically do you do as the Tapcom guy?

>> You you're the voice of mission control.

You don't uh you're the only person that can actually talk to the crew. the the

the crew's voice loop is heard in mission control in everybody's headset, but the only person that can respond is

Capcom and was an astronaut. And you you really told them what was you responded to their calls and you re and you

responded to what the mission control team were telling you to tell them to keep them in the loop. like we started

down and we had uh communication problems and if I recall the the uh

the uh it was a 30 second rule. If you

lost communications for 30 seconds, it was an abort. So we reoriented, changed ant attitude, changed antennas and uh

and then the computer was overloading and uh that really got everybody's attention and uh so uh but Steve Bales and Jack Garmin in the back room said

we're go flight. They knew what the computer was doing and it was not it was overloading because it had a uh it had 75

milliseconds of compute and then it flipped back to the to the job number one >> and it was always flying the spacecraft but it was dropping off these insignificant jobs and uh

>> right >> so we [clears throat] we were go and then we had a trajectory problem and Neil couldn't we had him targeted it into the wrong place. We didn't really

understand lunar gravity then >> and with the mascons and all of that stuff. Mhm.

stuff. Mhm.

>> So, uh, we, uh, he had to level off and fly horizontally, I don't know, four or five miles, and that used up all the

reserve fuel. And, uh, so now we're

reserve fuel. And, uh, so now we're minimum fuel. And, uh, we called uh,

minimum fuel. And, uh, we called uh, >> they they have two separate fuel reserves. One for the descent and one

reserves. One for the descent and one for the ascent. When they leave the moon, >> the asset engine is never you was never used on de ascent, I mean descent. Okay.

>> You >> you never would do that.

>> Well, you'd have to stage the vehicle to get the SN engine light. It wouldn't

light unless you >> staged and separated.

>> So, uh anyway, uh uh we called uh 60 seconds. He had 60 seconds to land.

60 seconds. He had 60 seconds to land.

>> Mhm.

>> And then I I remember 30 seconds. I

called 30 seconds and uh he was uh they were close but not on the ground and we were according to my watch we were 15

seconds or so before calling an abort when uh Buzz Alderin said contact engine stop there on the moon.

>> Wow.

>> Tension was through the roof at mission control.

What what was that like for you when they landed on the moon and you were sitting in that in that?

>> It was a great sigh of relief everybody, you know, it was it was tense. You can

imagine and uh are we going to make it?

Are we going to make it? I'm convinced

now that uh had I called abort time up you know and called an abort which was based on a fuel reserve and a decent

engine uh Neil would have said again Houston he's not going to abort he's going to land at uh

at 20 feet off the moon in his minimum fuel and we hit that point he's not going to abort he had the final say so he's going to Man,

>> now uh were you were you there on the communication with them the moment they landed?

>> Yes.

>> And how long were you there? Were you

there the whole time even when they were coming back?

>> No.

>> Okay. Uh that was another uh we had I think four four flight teams uh working Apollo 11 and uh I was on

Jean CR's team and we had responsibility for landing and uh and then we stayed around for another hour or so while they saved the

spacecraft and got everything.

Um, and how long was it until once he got back to Earth?

Do you remember your first conversation with him? How long How long was it

with him? How long How long was it before you talked to him?

>> Well, they had to go into quarantine and uh because of moon bugs, you know, we weren't sure about whether we're going to bring back something that's going to wipe out the whole civil

>> civilization.

>> Civilization. So they went into quarantine and uh we could talk to them

through the the window and uh but uh there were no moon bugs and uh everything was fine and so they were I

think 3 weeks or something like that then it got out and we started having debriefings but we were debriefing during the time they were in quarantine.

>> And what was that like? What what was his demeanor? What was his attitude?

his demeanor? What was his attitude?

What was he saying? Anything ring a bell to you like >> or did does anything uh really like stick out for you as far as like conversations you had with him afterwards?

>> Neil Armstrong was Mr. Cool Stone. Yeah,

he wasn't he was unflapable and uh it uh you know we landed [laughter]

>> and uh he was following the rules. But

uh we had uh we hit minimum fuel on the descent because he had to we had him targeted into the wrong way and he had to fly horizontally about four or five miles

>> and then set down >> uh and find a place to land. And uh I remember calling uh Apollo 11 uh 30

seconds. I mean you see he had 30

seconds. I mean you see he had 30 seconds to land on the moon and it or the next call was going to be uh abort.

>> Right. Right. Yeah. We we just talked about that.

>> Yeah.

>> Um >> so okay, let's fast forward to your to your mission Apollo 16.

Um, can you describe like what was it like being sitting in the tip of that rocket before it launched off to the moon?

>> Uh, keep counting. Keep counting.

[clears throat] I'm ready to go. I go.

Yeah. Two years. And we trained.

>> Was there any Did you Was there no fear?

Like you had children and a wife back home and >> No fear.

>> No fear at all. Mhm. [clears throat]

>> Just we had because we had so many we had a escape rocket. Uh we had uh practiced aborts and uh not if the thing

blew up on the pad, you were still able to get off with the with the Apollo uh launch vehicle escape system.

>> Oh wow.

>> And uh so uh we had practiced all of that stuff and we were just ready to go.

And uh so we were laying there ready to keep counting, keep counting, keep counting. And

counting. And >> and can you walk me through what that was like for you that like that first that liftoff and then getting into orbit and then and then doing the >> I want to say I've been waiting to say

this word for for weeks. The trans lunar injection [laughter] sounds so cool.

>> Bart's over there. [laughter] Bart's

over there steaming.

>> Well, I'm just waiting for him to turn.

[laughter] You'll get you'll get it. I'm

>> I'm entertained. So,

>> yeah, you you'll get it, Barb. This is

uh we I think it's really important we get this.

>> Uh so, we were laying there and then we're listening to the count and when the engine started you they was moving down there to maintain a trajectory and

that vibration transferrated up and you 360 ft above it and it shook >> from side to side.

>> But we're on our way. you feel the G's lift off and mission control said you're go and we were go and uh and uh it was

uh uh really exciting uh to to feel the acceleration of this big vehicle and the vibration from side to side and we didn't have any pogo but it was a

vibration from side to side and uh >> so we're on our way and just riding it out and uh it was uh really.

I mean, one of the best rides I've ever had.

>> How long did it take to get to the moon?

>> Get to the get into orbit was 12 minutes or so, I think. Uh, and that was you ended up on the third stage, which was the rocket that pushed you out of Earth

orbit and onto the trajectory to the moon. Mhm.

moon. Mhm.

>> And uh that happened uh I don't know about rev and a half later uh we were over

Australia and uh and we ignited the third stage automatically and pushed us out of orbit uh into a C sis lunar

orbit that took us to the moon and then we got there we had to slow down to get into orbit. We use the uh service module

into orbit. We use the uh service module engine for that.

>> And what was your did you have a specific task on that trip to the moon?

Were you were you in charge of monitoring anything part in particular or communication or >> Well, there were the I was the lunar module pilot which was on the right

side. And as you look at uh at the

side. And as you look at uh at the instrument panel, I was on the right side. Maddingley was in the center seat

side. Maddingley was in the center seat and John and John Young was the commander in the left seat.

>> So if we had emergencies, we all had things to do. We practiced uh you know aborts and we practiced uh radio out and

every kind of thing fuel cell failures.

We just practiced and practiced and practiced. So we were ready to go and uh

practiced. So we were ready to go and uh and towards that our flight was sort of the one of the most nominal flights [clears throat] that we had to

get into orbit on the Saturn 5. It was a very reliable rocket.

>> Explain what it was like actually landing on the moon.

>> Well, it was a very dynamic situation.

And uh we pitched over uh at 7,000 ft. And that's the first time you saw the lunar surface where you were going to land. And I

>> 7,000 ft.

>> Yeah. And I looked out and looked to the right to uh see if I could see the North Ray crater up there. And we were right on target. And John began to maneuver uh

on target. And John began to maneuver uh the spacecraft manually uh to to he picked out a landing spot uh

he had uh on his windshield he had uh ladders and if you land it land it up it like at

35 that meant and the computer would tell you 35 that's where you're going to land if you don't do anything. And uh so

uh we he redesated a couple of times and we were going into some craters and he maneuvered and it uh and I was just talking him down. I was not looking out

the window much because it was so busy.

You know, >> you were reading instruments or something. We were

something. We were we had a profile that said at 500 feet down at 22 and no lateral velocity or

whatever >> and uh so I was reading that profile out to him and >> Oh, I see. See, and um and he was flying it man. By this time he's flying it

it man. By this time he's flying it manually and uh he's controlling the whole thing. Descent, right, left,

whole thing. Descent, right, left, forward, back and uh and we had a profile and we were right on the profile. So uh uh

profile. So uh uh uh when we hit the ground uh there was a probe underneath the landing gear. It

said contact and when that light came on, you shut the engine down. And uh and we were coming down like 2 3 feet per

second I think if I remember right. And

uh when the light came on I said contact and he shut it down and we dropped in on the moon.

>> Wow.

>> Almost dead level. So we we were excited to say the least.

>> I could imagine >> we were late landing. We had a problem in the in the command module before we

started down. and um and uh it almost

started down. and um and uh it almost caused an abort of the whole mission, but mission control came to the rescue and figured it out. And so we we

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your mission? What was the what was the

your mission? What was the what was the objective of of Apollo 16? explore the

lunar highlands, the mountains of the moon. Uh the geology

moon. Uh the geology uh was supposed to be different than the Mari where Neil landed and it was we had

different rocks, different kind of compositions and uh we had a car uh that we unloaded and drove it. First day we

drove uh west for a mile and a half and sampled Plum Crater. And then the next day we drove north south up Stone

Mountain. Uh and uh and that was about a

Mountain. Uh and uh and that was about a eight or nine mile round trip. And uh

then the last day uh we head we headed north uh yeah north uh to uh to what was called uh

>> oh I can't remember the name of the crater. It was a big crater. North ray

crater. It was a big crater. North ray

crater. North ray crater it was called.

>> What the mo do you remember the moment you took your first step onto the moon?

>> Yeah.

>> What what was what did that feel like?

>> I'm on the moon. On the moon. It's just

exciting and >> just just elated with excitement.

>> Yeah, we we were delayed getting out because we were late landing due to the problem we had in the other spacecraft.

>> How old were you again when you first landed on the when you when you walked on the moon?

>> 36.

>> You were 36 years old.

>> One of the youngest guys.

>> I I can't I I would imagine it would be overwhelming the amount of emotions would be.

>> It was pretty exciting. And uh we were uh you know just bounding with enthusiasm and >> we were late landing so we didn't we were supposed to the original plan

called us to land and suit up and go outside but uh mission control cancelled that said you go going to be up too late. You might make a mistake or too

late. You might make a mistake or too too long. Not wake up too too late but

too long. Not wake up too too late but you're going to be awake for 20some hours if we do the seed. So

>> they made you guys go to sleep?

>> Yeah. took off our suits and went to sleep. What were you Is there anything

sleep. What were you Is there anything that sort of like blew blew your previously held conceptions of the moon out of the water when you got there?

Like when you actually walked out and stepped on the moon, was it exactly what you expected it to be or what about that experience really

stood out to you? Well, we were the fifth landing, so we had we'd heard debrief four four previous crews tell us what was it like.

>> Okay.

>> So, we we had a lot of familiarity with it and we knew we we had a flight plan.

We knew what we were going to do. And

so, we just got to work and it was really exciting being there. And I'm on the moon. I'm on the moon, you know, and

the moon. I'm on the moon, you know, and you you're thinking those things privately. You're not broadcasting it

privately. You're not broadcasting it out. But uh we uh

out. But uh we uh >> like what did it feel like to walk on to to walk on the moon? Could you remember like what >> I'm talking about like like what did the ground feel like? What

>> you don't have any feel you got a moon boot on and you got a suit boot on.

>> Right.

>> So you you just feel the pressure and it uh >> right >> it was uh [clears throat] easy to lose your balance if you will at 16 gravity. And

uh >> did you immediately see the Earth?

>> No, it was right overhead. So when you look up in Apollo, you're looking at the top of your helmet. [clears throat]

>> So we never saw the Earth.

>> You have to be like, >> well, yeah, you could hold on to the spacecraft and lean back and there it was. is about a half earth up up in the

was. is about a half earth up up in the sky and you could we had TV so we had an antenna that we like a periscope and we

could point that at the earth and when we got it pointed at the earth we flipped on the TV and we had TV >> that we sat down >> and uh

how big like you were standing on the edge of a crater. How big was that crater? The biggest one we visited was

crater? The biggest one we visited was North Ray Crater was about uh I'm that's been a long time ago. So I'm I'll guess

it maybe 300 300 ft wide and maybe a couple hundred feet deep.

>> Wow.

>> And that was our last EVA. That was our third EVA. The the Luna rover that we

third EVA. The the Luna rover that we had was uh we were the uh let's see second. Yeah. Second with the lunar

second. Yeah. Second with the lunar rover and it uh revolutionized lunar exploration because you prior that you everybody was walking

>> you know it's pretty tough walking up there and collecting rocks. So riding

the rover was uh uh really revolutionary.

>> How long were you guys outside?

>> The longest was if I remember right is over eight hours.

>> You were walking around on your feet for eight hours.

>> Well no we were riding the car [clears throat] sitting in the car.

Okay. and then ride the place and we jump out and we'd had a we had a flight plan. Do this, do this, find this rock,

plan. Do this, do this, find this rock, do that.

>> And so we were collecting samples. We

were drilling holes. We were digging, shoveling trenches and everything like that.

>> Was there anything that you did that was a part of your ro a part of the job that you had to do that surprised you? Like

in any of your digs or any of your findings? Did you see anything that was

findings? Did you see anything that was like shocking or like unexpected?

Uh I don't think in the in the physical work was anything different but the experience of being on the moon and the

one six gravity it had you had to uh learn how to walk and get your s center of gravity over your feet.

>> Yeah.

>> And you couldn't straighten up. I tried

to straighten up jumping one time and straighten up and I fell over backwards which was really scary. But that was the end of our stay.

>> And do you do you remember if you could see stars?

>> You can't.

>> You can't see any stars.

>> Not in the daylight. You can't.

>> And you guys were in the daylight the entire mission, right?

>> No, only on the moon. We were

>> That's what I mean. When when you guys like the entire entirety of your time spent on the moon was in the daylight because day there are like 14 days long here on Earth, right?

>> That's right.

>> So, what happened when you guys had to come home? What was that like?

home? What was that like?

Well, we were uh it we were um approaching a time because and we tried to talk mission control into letting us

stay another two hours but uh or whatever it was and they said get inside guys it's time to come home.

>> So we got inside and and we got ready to lift off but the first thing we had to do was pitch out all the backpacks. So

we pressurized, opened the depressurized, opened the door, threw out the backpacks, >> two bags of trash, >> and uh >> Oh, no. You littered on the moon.

>> Yeah, we big litter. Yeah.

>> Unbelievable.

>> Sorry about that. [laughter]

But we were >> How dare you?

>> Yeah. And then uh then we lifted off and rende [clears throat] booted. And um

and when you got back to Earth, you had to go through the same process that Neil went through the um >> No, we did not have quarantine.

>> You didn't you did not have quarantine?

>> No, not on the return.

>> What did you have to go go through on the return? Do you Was there any

the return? Do you Was there any specific protocol you had to follow? And

>> well, I don't remember exactly, but we uh we had physicals and uh you know, blood and stuff, blood work and stuff like that. Were there any like were

like that. Were there any like were there any um psychological evaluations or anything like that or like talking to somebody that about your experience?

>> Oh, we had debriefings but everybody geologist uh other astronauts uh mission control uh we talked to everybody when we got back

>> management. So

>> management. So >> yeah.

Um, okay, Bart. So, your basic story was

okay, Bart. So, your basic story was when you were a kid, you're obsessed with the moon missions. You you uh you were said you were asleep when they first landed on the moon, but you were a

huge fan of NASA and a big believer in the moon landing. And um at one point something happened and you did a 180

out of out of everything. And I know you cover a lot of ground with um your [clears throat] theories and in your documentaries. You you do a very

documentaries. You you do a very thorough job laying out every single point. But like to you, what is the what

point. But like to you, what is the what are like the top two two or three reasons that you believe that the moon landing was a hoax?

>> Well, we can get into that and I have evidence to show on all of those. Uh the

first we have an eyewitness who saw them film Apollo 11 at Canon Air Force Base. He confessed to it as he was

Force Base. He confessed to it as he was dying and he also confessed to a homicide.

>> This is why the headphones help cuz you you get sometimes you're not talking into the microphone correctly.

>> Well, just make sure you keep it like this far away from your mouth when you're talking >> this far. Okay,

>> get it nice and close. [laughter]

So, we have an eyewitness and who was fearing the judgment of God as he was dying and [snorts] he confessed to a

homicide. And if you want, you can uh

homicide. And if you want, you can uh bring up that image. It's uh image D1.

This gentleman's name is Cyrus Eugene Acres. He was the chief of security at

Acres. He was the chief of security at Canon Air Force Base, which is the special operations or intelligence headquarters.

>> Mhm.

>> For the Air Force. And as he was dying in the presence of his son, there's a picture of him, general, if you want to look at it.

>> Okay. This is Cyrus Eugene Acres. That's

right.

>> How did you discover this guy?

>> Uh, his son contacted me.

>> Okay.

>> Based after his father confessed.

>> Mhm.

>> And the first thing he confessed to was a homicide that he felt like he needed to confess that he had murdered somebody

in the past. and his son found out that um he murdered a fellow employee at Canon Air Force Base.

And the military police came in and investigated the homicide.

And when they asked him, "Why did you kill him?"

He said it was to cover up the moonlanding fraud, which they both had eyewitnessed.

and he felt that his friend who thought it was morally wrong was going to go public with it and so he murdered him to

keep it a secret. If you go to uh D2, we can watch a 3minute video of the son and see his testimony about it.

>> Okay. So,

this is a this is a a deathbed confession that the son told you about, >> correct? And there was a police

>> correct? And there was a police investigation into a military police investigation.

>> A military police. Okay. Is there any hard evidence of this investigation? And

what was the outcome of it?

>> Well, after his father's confession, which was videotaped?

>> Oh, it was on video.

>> That's correct. When they went out one day, their house burned down. They

believe it was said intentionally from somebody who knew about the confession.

After all, they had told the Air Force uh military police that the moon landing was fake. They reported that to their

was fake. They reported that to their superiors. Uh they found out there was a

superiors. Uh they found out there was a videotape of the confession and so they burned their house down. And in fact the >> who burned their house down?

>> Whoever it was arson I presume the CIA or whoever.

>> And how many how long after this confession was the house burned down?

>> Uh within I think a couple of weeks because uh they had video of the confession and they had some documentation.

In fact, the gentleman's uh Air Force file has been completely deleted. We

used a Freedom of Information Act request. They said there's no Cyrus

request. They said there's no Cyrus Eugene Acres. There's uh never was in

Eugene Acres. There's uh never was in the Air Force. And yet I went to the military graveyard, which isn't too far from here, about 50 miles from here. And

there he is, his tombstone, United States Air Force here. Yeah. It's about

50 miles from here. Wow. and it he's in a military cemetery and it says United States Air Force. Cyrus Eugene Acres and that he served in Vietnam and Korea and

his son lived right across from the base. He said he was chief of security

base. He said he was chief of security there.

>> And so if you play video D2, we can have a video of the son and put it in his own words.

>> President Johnson in 1968.

Okay.

um in Canon Air Force Base in 1968. He

said by that time by the time he got there that there was already two large hangers that were connected.

There was hundreds of dump trucks came in and dumped sand and uh uh stone and uh cement powder was powdered over

the top of all that to make it look like a lunar landscape. They had men that fa fashioned it into a lunar landscape. He

said, "Okay, I've never known my dad to lie, so this all took me by surprise. You

know what's that all about?" So anyway, um he said that in front of the uh the airplane hangers uh was pole framing

with large canvas tents um that was uh concealing the inside of the staging area.

inside the staging area uh on flatbed trucks was on created. Um

the lunar lander that was assembled reassembled back inside the hangers.

Um all of the walls were painted flat black and the ceilings as well. He was

sworn to secrecy by the NSA and uh they would put him in prison for breaking that oath. When dad saw the the moon

that oath. When dad saw the the moon landing on TV, he cried. He said he knew um that what he had witnessed on TV was

exactly what they recorded in that hanger.

Um there was no reason for them to go flying around and everything. They had

detailed highdefinition photos of the landing area. There was no reason for

landing area. There was no reason for them to go flying around to a different landing area that almost exhausted their fuel except for drama because everything

had gone so smoothly.

Um nothing, you know, so it had to be something.

Anyway um dad was one of three guards that guarded the uh the inside of the front entrance.

There was a list of 15 people who could enter. No one else was allowed by order

enter. No one else was allowed by order of President Johnson. And here is that list. And I gave it to Bart Crell as

list. And I gave it to Bart Crell as well. Uh, and he checked out a lot of

well. Uh, and he checked out a lot of these names and he says he can verify a lot of these people and what they do.

Um, and I come across a couple myself.

Anyway, President Johnson, Neil Armstrong, Edwin Alden, Verer von Braonn, Robert Emgger, Jean CR, James

Webb, Joe Kerwin, Dr. Thomas Payne, Glenn

Looney, Dr. Christopher Craft, Dr. James Van Allen, General Trudeau Trudeau,

Lieutenant Colonel uh Donald Simon, and Grant Norway.

My dad, he raised me by the book.

I know he didn't lie to me. And as I started seeing more and more of what he was telling me was true, I realized my dad wasn't lying.

>> All right. All right. So, this is the this you would say this is the top piece of evidence that you >> No, it's it's the most compelling to people because we have a a testimony of it. Now, if I may ask,

it. Now, if I may ask, >> it is a testimony, but it's not actual hardcore evidence.

>> I I understand we've got we've got three and a half hours. He's got 40 minutes ahead of head start on me.

>> Yes, he does.

>> And so, I can present my evidence and I have a couple of questions. Um,

if I climbed Mount Everest and was known for climbing Mount Everest and got an award or a medal and everyone I was hired at companies as their CEO

for having climbed Mount Everest and somebody came along and started saying, "You didn't do it. You It was filmed in

a TV studio. I certainly wouldn't fly and make an airport change and stay overnight in a hotel and go to podcast to podcast to defend that I had climbed

Mount Everest. I wouldn't waste my time.

Mount Everest. I wouldn't waste my time.

So why are you here?

>> Me?

>> Yeah.

If if you walked on the moon and it's so obvious that you walked on the moon, >> I I wouldn't fly anywhere to debate somebody whether or not I walked on

Mount Everest if I did. So why are you here? I'm here to tell my story. He

here? I'm here to tell my story. He

asked me to come and share my story. Did

I walk on the moon? And I did walk on the moon. The evidence overwhelming that

the moon. The evidence overwhelming that we landed on the moon. And uh and so I've told my story for the last 50s

something years almost or whatever it is. We landed in 72. So uh I I have been

is. We landed in 72. So uh I I have been asked to share my experience

uh by reputable people and so I do that and I am not lying. I landed on the moon and the evidence is overwhelming.

>> Well actually the opposite is true.

People can say anything. The evidence is not overwhelming.

>> What is evidence? Hold on. Hold on a second. Let's get into that. Let let's

second. Let's get into that. Let let's

lay out some more of your evidence.

>> Okay. Okay. Well,

you you retired a general, right?

>> Okay. What was your security clearance?

>> Top secret.

>> Okay. So, when you when you have a top secret, you're not allowed to tell your wife or your children, right?

>> What? Whatever the secrets are, whatever secrets you have as a top secret clearance, if you told your wife or your children, you would be violating your oath. Is that right?

oath. Is that right?

>> In the military, that's true. But we

were NASA did not have us uh swear an oath that we are lying or not lying.

>> I understand. But the point is you have top secret clearance and telling your wife or your children would be violating

that oath. So your oath to the corrupt

that oath. So your oath to the corrupt United States federal government includes lying to your wife and to your

children. Now there are a 100,000 trials

children. Now there are a 100,000 trials every year in America. 90% of the people are guilty and yet a 100,000 people

raise their hand and swear that they're telling the truth. So does every Nazi war criminal. They look like benevolent

war criminal. They look like benevolent grandfathers and yet they go smiling through life and denying to the very end that they committed these crimes, which

they did. Now, if you're willing to lie

they did. Now, if you're willing to lie to your wife and to your children, why should we believe you?

>> Believe me about what?

>> Well, you just said you're willing to lie to your wife and children to keep your oath to the corrupt federal government. So if you're willing to lie,

government. So if you're willing to lie, I'm not lying to them. I'm lying I'm not lying to anybody. I'm telling the truth.

I landed on the moon.

>> Just because somebody has I don't think it's fair to say just because he has a top secret clearance and he's under an oath to protect government secrets, that doesn't mean that he is inherently a liar.

>> I understand that [clears throat] shows that he is willing to lie to his wife and children. And if if he's willing to

and children. And if if he's willing to do that, he's willing to lie to the rest of the world. So that's my point. No. No

Nazi war criminal has ever come forward and turned himself in. And when arrested and interrogated, not a single one confessed, even though they were guilty.

I'm just mentioning that. So either the gentleman we saw is lying or you're lying. One of the two. So would a

lying. One of the two. So would a general with top secret clearance be more likely to lie? or were a sergeant on his deathbed who confessed to a homicide be more willing to tell the

truth.

>> I think uh there's crazy people out there. There's lots of crazy lunatics

there. There's lots of crazy lunatics out there who are willing to who will say anything and make up stories and the same thing is true that >> and one of them is sitting across from me.

>> Well, I don't think so. I I don't necessarily think that. I think that um anybody who is in a high level mil military position that has to protect government secrets uh is going to

protect their oath. It doesn't mean they're a liar. Um that means that they're protecting national secrets, something they swore to do and devoted their career to. And if they divulge those secrets, they will go to prison for it. And there's been many cases

for it. And there's been many cases where people have done that, have been sent to prison by the federal government for blowing the whistle on things and following whistleblower protocol. So, um

I don't think we're going to get anywhere by by calling people liars.

First of all, I'm not I'm not What I'm saying is either >> the gentleman we saw who was lying as he's dying or you're lying. One of only

one of them is the true, >> right? Either that guy's lying while he

>> right? Either that guy's lying while he was dying, confessing to a homicide.

>> What's your point?

>> Well, I just bringing that to the audience's attention. Okay.

audience's attention. Okay.

>> Right.

>> Okay.

>> Now, I had a little side note. Who who

do you think killed JFK?

>> I have no idea. Clue, huh? Okay.

>> I I believe Well, I know what this >> What's your personal opinion?

>> I don't I My personal opinion is a I don't Oswald or whatever his name is. I

don't remember the name.

>> Lee Harvey Oswald.

>> Lee Harvey.

>> The government's position was that he was acted alone and he was the sole shooter for uh of JFK.

>> Yeah. That's what you believe. Yeah.

>> Well, 75% of Americans disagree. The

gentleman's relatives disagree. Bobby

Kennedy Jr. says he's 100% certain that he was murdered by the CIA because he was going to abolish them. And then a few years later, Robert McNamer, before

he died, he was defense secretary during the Vietnam War. He confessed that the whole reason that the war was started, which 90% of the public was against, was

they fabricated an attack by the North Vietnamese on an American ship in the Gulf of Tonkan. Even Wikipedia says it was falsified. Now, Congress passed a

was falsified. Now, Congress passed a law called the Gulf of Tonkan resolution, which led to the deaths of 3 million people, including 58,220

of their own citizens. So, if they're willing to kill their own president, willing to kill 58,220 of their own citizens, I don't think they're going to have a problem faking a

video image of the moon. In fact, NASA has never kept a schedule in its entire existence except the most complicated

one of all time. Somehow, they were ahead of schedule. You see that? So,

here's some names on here. And I

wondered if you knew those names. He was

very specific. He kept this list as a souvenir.

[clears throat] >> So, do you do you know who President Johnson is? You know Neil Armstrong,

Johnson is? You know Neil Armstrong, Edwin Aldron, Verer von Braun. Who's

Robert Eman?

>> I don't know.

>> Are you familiar with Canon Air Force Base?

>> Not really. I've been to Canon, landed there and refueled, but I've never been stationed there. So, what does special

stationed there. So, what does special ops mean in the Air Force?

>> It's just what you're saying. Special

ops, >> top secret stuff >> generally. Yeah.

>> generally. Yeah.

>> Okay. What about uh Joseph Kerwin?

>> Joe Cerwin was a astronaut, doctor, medical doctor. That's Joe Cerwin I

medical doctor. That's Joe Cerwin I know.

>> What about Thomas Payne?

>> Thomas Payne was head of NASA.

>> Okay. Christopher Craft.

>> He was head of uh Johnson Space Center, but he's also head of mission control.

>> What about Arthur Trudeau?

>> I don't know him. I don't remember him.

>> He's general of Army Intelligence. What

about Donald Simon?

>> I don't remember him.

>> Grant Nory.

>> Who? Who?

>> Yeah, those people we couldn't track down.

>> What was the last one you said? Grant

Nory.

>> Yeah. Oh,

>> what do you think? He's either NSA or CIA. We couldn't track him down.

CIA. We couldn't track him down.

[clears throat] So, >> I guess the point here is that, and I can attest to this.

>> Oh, wait a minute. Let me I I've lost my >> right. Let Let me Let me sum it Let me

>> right. Let Let me Let me sum it Let me sum it up for you. the the one of the main reasons for me and I think I'm speaking for a lot of other folks when I

say this is that when it comes to the Apollo missions, the Apollo missions happened at in the middle of the Cold War during the the peak of government

distrust. That's when we know according

distrust. That's when we know according to all the declassified documents by the CIA and the FBI is that the the government was lying and deceiving the public more than ever. I mean, I don't

know how much they're doing now, but as far as all the documents that we have, that was the peak. That was when they uh the president of the United States was murdered. That's when we did the Gulf of

murdered. That's when we did the Gulf of Tonkan, got into the Vietnam War.

uh the government started doing a secret mind control program with using LSD and other drugs and that there was the Manson family murders and all of this

stuff, right? So when people look at

stuff, right? So when people look at this stuff and they're they're they're learning the history of the Cold War and they see that the Apo the most

astonishing feat of mankind ever happened right in the middle of all of that stuff.

People just I think they get taken back by it. Like, so the government was lying

by it. Like, so the government was lying about all this other stuff, but the one thing they didn't lie about was the most amazing feat of mankind.

Does that make sense to you? Does Does

that sort of logic does that make sense?

Why people would question that?

Question Apollo.

>> Yes. just based on all of the other strategic deception that was happening within the government like MK Ultra, mind control experiments that were going on, the Vietnam War, the assassination

of President Kennedy, the Gulf of Tonkan, all of that stuff. It was right in the middle of all of that, all of that. The Bay of Pigs, right? There was

that. The Bay of Pigs, right? There was

Operation Northwoods that got declassified where the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted to fly a airplane with nobody in it as a drone and blow it up as a pretext to invade Cuba,

>> killing Americans. They were willing to kill Americans to fake an attack on Cuba.

>> This is this is real declassified stuff that that's come out in the federal government with um the Warren Commission and and all of this stuff. So

>> the same people who would later approve the Apollo program.

>> So that's we never landed on the moon.

>> Well, no. What what the question is, >> you didn't know that before you got here? [laughter]

here? [laughter] >> Charlie, you're a really good actor.

>> I probably didn't know that.

>> Did you ever win the Academy Award for best actor?

>> No. No. I I really I know that you believe that we lied on six missions that landed on the moon. Charlie, does

it make sense to you?

>> That's how arrogant the federal government is. Now, if I may have my 40

government is. Now, if I may have my 40 minutes to answer your question.

>> Hold on one second. I want to make sure this lands with him. Does it make sense why people would question that based on all of the other and lying that was going on that we know was actually all the other stuff that we know for a

fact was deception?

Uh [laughter] I no I to me Apollo was real to you. But

I'm >> No, wait a minute. In in in the United States there were 400,000 people working on Apollo. Well, let me

on Apollo. Well, let me >> just a minute. Let me finish.

>> You had 40 minutes already. I've only

had 10. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

>> Okay. That's that's one of the, you know, must be real because of 400,000.

And of course, every year that number increases. There are 400,000 tellers at

increases. There are 400,000 tellers at Bank of America. But do you really think what the teller knows and what the CEO knows about corruption in the bank are

identical? I interviewed Eugene Grants.

identical? I interviewed Eugene Grants.

He told me that someone in the command center at the console can tell no difference whatsoever between a simulation and an actual flight. Do we

really think the CIA is so stupid to tell the guy making the glove or the door or the boot, hey, we're really not going to the moon. Be sure not to tell anybody. And that's why they had you

anybody. And that's why they had you astronauts at the command center to cover the mistakes about faking it. Once

the rocket went up, there's only three eyewitnesses to the mission and no independent press coverage. So if you add people who delivered food and made paper clips and did the printing and the

contractors and all their secretaries and food vendors, you could probably pad 400,000. But the atomic bomb involved

400,000. But the atomic bomb involved 129,500 people and only eight people knew what they were building. So, if someone in

the command center cannot tell the difference between a real flight and a simulated flight, how can the public watching it from their living room or people years later? So, that argument is

flat. It doesn't go anywhere. And

flat. It doesn't go anywhere. And

neither does the argument that the Russians would have spilled the beans because I know somebody who works in the command center of the Chinese space

agency. He said, "Everybody there knows

agency. He said, "Everybody there knows that the moon missions are fake and they're blackmailing NASA cuz Congress passed a law forbidding space technology

to be sold to China and they're receiving it anyway by blackmail. If I

had a picture of a world leader with a prostitute, I could upload it to the internet and now it's worth nothing.

Or I could blackmail them year after year after year. And that's what the Soviet Union is doing. Putin knows. He

wasn't surprised to find out that the moon missions are fake. And neither is China. So that doesn't fly either. We're

China. So that doesn't fly either. We're

being blackmailed, which is another reason for the truth to come out. Now, I

also interviewed Betty Gryom, the widow of the man who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon, who was a whistleblower at NASA to such a degree

that he received Secret Service protection the weeks up to his death. I

interviewed her for four hours. I

interviewed her son for three hours, who's a 747 pilot. They say with 100% certainty that the man who was going to

be the first man to walk on the moon was murdered by the CIA. And if you go to D3, it's a short clip. You can see Scott

Gryom say that out of his own mouth. So

why is the CIA killing Apollo astronauts who are whistleblowers? What a

coincidence, right? Go ahead and play that clip. It's D3.

that clip. It's D3.

I think it was intentionally sabotaged by someone. It's been a question in my

by someone. It's been a question in my mind what was found in the accident investigation and how was that handled.

Was a CIA involved or you know whoever but it was done intentionally.

>> So this you know the story of you know the story of G I'm sure he you know the story of the Gus Gus Gerson was Apollo one right?

>> That's right.

>> Yeah.

>> And according to his son and widow he was murdered by the CIA. She told me that on January 26, 1967, he telephoned

her from NASA and said, "Hun, for some strange reason, the CIA is all over the launch pad today. I've never seen him

here before. For some reason, they

here before. For some reason, they showed up today." And the very next day, he's dead by a quote accident. One of

his last words were, "If we can't talk between two buildings, how are we going to go to the moon?" They couldn't get a wired intercom to work between two

buildings. And Neil Armstrong supposed

buildings. And Neil Armstrong supposed to pick up the first moon rock. He

rehearsed it six weeks beforehand, and the stick to pick up the rock falls apart. And the lunar lander crashed

apart. And the lunar lander crashed weeks beforehand. If they can't get a

weeks beforehand. If they can't get a stick with a a bag on the end of it to stay together, if they can't get an intercom to work between two buildings, how are they going to go to the moon?

The Soviets launched the first satellite, the first animal, the first man, the first woman, the first spacew walk, the first crew of three, the first of two spacecrafts altogether. They

spent five time man hours in space and they never went to the moon. China, the

most industrialized nation on Earth, says with 50 years better technology, it's going to take at least 15 years to go to the moon. And yet somehow they did

it in 8 years with 1960s technology.

Now, if you play clip four, this is when my film Astronauts Gone Wild, the link will be in the description of your video to surreal.com.

to surreal.com.

We interviewed um Ed Mitchell and showed him the footage, which is one of the proofs that we'll look at footage we uncovered that says do not show to the public at the

beginning of the reel and they're faking being halfway to the moon. They can't

leave Earth orbit. And when he was shown that, he turned beat red. He started

cursing. He literally kicked me from behind. And in the commotion, we left a

behind. And in the commotion, we left a wireless microphone on him. And in the commotion, my cameraman forgot to hit stop record. And you can play back that

stop record. And you can play back that clip. It's about 5 seconds long. They're

clip. It's about 5 seconds long. They're

talking about calling the CIA to have me killed.

>> Let's see it.

>> Who [clears throat] killed me?

You want to call the CIA, have them whacked.

>> Now, my source, the son of Cyrus Eugene Acres, after he spoke to me, he went out and he had a security system with the

password and everything that was hacked and his house was broken into everything about his dad was taken. And then a couple of days later, this is about 3

and 1/2 years ago, the CIA shows up and threatens to kill him and his family if he ever talks to me again. So the astronaut's son says

me again. So the astronaut's son says the CIA is involved and he got whistleblower protection up until the day that he died. The CIA is threatening

to kill me, right? And

why would this source of mine who was also threatened by the CIA, he received whistleblower protection by the FBI?

Now, if they went to the moon, why is he receiving a few years ago whistleblower protection for being the son of the man who confessed that the moon missions

were fake? And then if you play clip

were fake? And then if you play clip five, which is about a minute long from the documentary conspiracy theory, did we go to the moon? There are other

deaths. There are a total of 15% of the

deaths. There are a total of 15% of the Apollo astronauts died in accidents within a 2-year period. These are the astronauts who would not cooperate with

the fraud. Go ahead, play the clip.

the fraud. Go ahead, play the clip.

>> But Gryom wasn't the only Apollo critic to meet with a suspicious and untimely death.

Thomas Ronald Baron was a safety inspector during Apollo 1's construction.

After the fire, Baron testified before Congress that the Apollo program was in such disarray that the United States would never make it to the moon. Then,

exactly one week after he testified, Baron's car was struck by a train.

But the Apollo program continued, and so did the string of untimely deaths. [music]

deaths. [music] Between 1964 and 1967, a total of 10 astronauts lost their lives in freak

accidents. These deaths accounted for an

accidents. These deaths accounted for an astonishing 15% of NASA's astronaut core.

To keep something that's alive wrapped up and covered over, you've got to eliminate all the people that can talk about it.

>> So, we have an eyewitness. That's proof,

right?

>> Acres.

>> That's right. And

>> I mean, it's it's one person's testimony. There's there's no

testimony. There's there's no corroborating >> evidence. So, either he's telling the

>> evidence. So, either he's telling the truth or he's lying. I'll I'll assume any guy who confesses to a murder, you know, probably telling the truth.

>> You didn't talk to the guy himself. It

was allegedly a videotape that never you never saw.

>> That's right. But according to his son, who according to his son, >> he was there at the time. and you just judge. Is that guy of the video we just

judge. Is that guy of the video we just saw telling the truth or not? I think

it's I think it's pretty honest, pretty obvious that he's telling the truth. So,

>> people can make their judgment.

>> That That's one one reason. Now, another

>> Wait a minute. Telling the truth about what?

>> About his father's deathbed confession of murdering a coworker to cover up the moonlanding fraud at Canon Air Force Base. So to me, that guy's telling the

Base. So to me, that guy's telling the truth, which means if he is, then his father did participate in the moon landing fraud. He went into great detail

landing fraud. He went into great detail about the lunar module and the fake lunar set in an airplane hanger filmed a year beforehand. President Johnson

year beforehand. President Johnson showed up. He kept a list of 15 people.

showed up. He kept a list of 15 people.

Some in their memoirs say they were at Canon Air Force Base. Canon Air Force Base used to have on their website, "President Johnson visited us in 1968.

They removed it once I started investigating it. And the main reason

investigating it. And the main reason for many people is that today with five decades better rockets and technology,

the farthest that NASA can send an astronaut into space is 1,000th the distance to the moon. So what

they're claiming is for the first time in the history of the world, technology was greater in the past than in the future. Because during the Apollo

future. Because during the Apollo program, all the computers combined had 1 millionth the computing power of a cell phone. So that would be like

cell phone. So that would be like Lindberg flying across the Atlantic 3,000 m in 1927. And 56 or seven years

later in 1982, no airplane on Earth can fly over the Atlantic. And the best one can only fly 3,000 miles. It's

impossible to have better technology in the past and then in the future. How is

it I mean is there any machine technological machine you can think of?

Cell phonic jets microwave anything that worked better in 1969 than its counterpart today.

>> What about supersonic jets?

>> What about them? The sound barriers broken 200 times a day all around the world in military aircraft.

>> We stopped using them because they were ineffective and they weren't cost they weren't cost effective. They were

inefficient and no >> and they were way more way more technical.

>> Are breaking the sound barrier at a rate of 200 a day.

>> We're using the same airplanes we've been using since the ' 50s and we stopped using the supersonic jets. So

that would be one example.

>> No, they're they're still using jets that break the sound barrier every day.

>> Not commercial ones, though.

>> Well, they decided that people aren't going to pay 20 times more to get there twice as fast.

>> Exactly. That's my point.

>> Right. Well, that they could use it, but they're just not >> correct.

>> Right. So, so let's listen to this clip D6 of an Apollo astronaut saying something very bizarre that NASA intentionally

destroyed all the technology. Now, you

still have in the Air Force, you may know more specifically, but the B-52 bomber was designed 70 years ago. It's

simple, it's reliable, the same words you used about the Saturn 5 rocket. And

there's still 200 of them in service today. So why would they spend a modern

today. So why would they spend a modern equivalent of $250 billion to make this rocket that flies to the

moon on the very first attempt and then destroy it? Listen to NASA saying they

destroy it? Listen to NASA saying they destroy the technology.

>> I'd go to the moon in a nancond.

The problem is we don't have the technology to do that anymore. We used

to but we uh destroyed that technology [music] and it's a painful process to build it back again.

>> So general why was that technology destroyed?

>> What do you why was it destroyed?

>> Why do you do you know why or have any idea why the technology was destroyed by NASA?

>> I don't know that the technology was destroyed we built so Bart. You got to let him let him finish

Bart. You got to let him let him finish his thought. Yeah,

his thought. Yeah, we flew to the moon. Okay, the program was successful. We did six landings on

was successful. We did six landings on the moon. Okay, we used technology that

the moon. Okay, we used technology that was designed by Marshall Space Flight Center called a Saturn 5 rocket. Was the

biggest rocket so far ever launched to get us to the moon. Okay, so we went to the moon. Took three days to get there.

the moon. Took three days to get there.

We orbited the moon for a day to get everything correct. Generally, it went

everything correct. Generally, it went that way for all of the six landings on the moon.

And so [clears throat] we got to the moon, we manned the spacecraft.

Uh we had in our flight, we had a delay because of the command module had a problem with the main engine. uh and uh mission control had to verify that they

could get it fixed or work around it. So

anyway, we were late landing on Apollo 16 because of this problem. And uh we land but we landed in in the place we were supposed to land at Daycart

Highlands. We spent 72 hours on the

Highlands. We spent 72 hours on the moon. We brought back 200 and if I

moon. We brought back 200 and if I remember 200 lb of moon rocks or thereabouts. Uh maybe not that much. I

thereabouts. Uh maybe not that much. I

forgot exactly.

>> But the qu the question about the technology being destroyed. You're not

aware of the technology being destroyed or gone missing from all the Apollo programs. >> Uh okay. So that NASA astronaut is lying that the technology was destroyed.

>> He said he wasn't aware of it.

>> Okay. Well, according to NASA, a modern-day astronaut, he said that a couple of years ago that all the Apollo technology was destroyed. I interviewed

Eugene Cramps. He told me all the telemetry data was destroyed. All the

original videotapes were destroyed >> right before right before they were to be transferred to HD. So,

>> but we still have the original film.

>> No, 16mm film is still in Houston at the Johnson Space Center.

>> Oh, that I don't know. The videotape is what what they intentionally >> The video tape [clears throat] of the projection that was given.

>> No, you're talking about the cameramounted lunar module that took one picture. All of the film, all of the

picture. All of the film, all of the film that was shot on all the emissions on all of the missions is still in it in its original format in the film reels in that

>> the majority of the video images is videaped and that was intentionally destroyed.

>> But those were just copies of the film, right?

>> No, these are the originals. I talked to Eugene Grants. said the original

Eugene Grants. said the original videotapes were accidentally recorded over and the only machine on Earth that could play it back was intentionally disassembled so that even if they're

found, they couldn't be played. All the

telemetry data where the rocket really was. So the back to the destroy

was. So the back to the destroy >> One second. Can I ask you a question?

>> Well, e either this guy is lying, >> right? Why would a NASA astronaut lie?

>> right? Why would a NASA astronaut lie?

Has there ever been a time and this is another proof. Has there ever been a

another proof. Has there ever been a time in the history of the world that someone developed a new technology, broke the sound barrier, split the atom, and then destroyed the technology

afterwards? It's never happened.

afterwards? It's never happened.

>> It's never happened there. They

destroyed it to cover their tracks because I went scuba diving and to have an hour's worth of air, it takes two tanks this big and that big around. That

would be 16 tanks of air you would have to have on your back on the moon. And

then to allegedly get the lunar module down to 72° on inside for 3 days against 250 degrees outside on a bank of

essentially car batteries. It can't be done. That's why they destroyed all the

done. That's why they destroyed all the technology because it could be proved later that the rocket didn't have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit, which we have proof of as well. I have Von Braonn's

own quote which we'll read that says one rocket will never go to the moon without multiple fueling and we'll show that from Von Braonn as well.

>> Fast question.

>> Yeah.

>> What has that got to do with our discussion?

>> Well, he asked what proof do we have that they didn't go to the moon and there's a lot of proof that you didn't go to the moon.

>> I have about how about the proof that is that we did go to the moon.

>> Well, we already heard all of that.

400,000 people that's been refuted. The

Russians would have blabbed. That's been

refuted. The moon rocks has been refuted. It's one of my clips that Neil

refuted. It's one of my clips that Neil Armstrong chain of custody allegedly picked up a rock, personally put it in his pocket, and then later personally gave it to the prime minister of the

Netherlands, which was immediately sealed in a container in a museum, was opened up a few years ago, and it's petrified wood. It's a fake. The moon

petrified wood. It's a fake. The moon

rocks are fake. and Antarctica. Von

Braonn went to Antarctica to pick up pounds and pounds of lunar meteorites.

So, the rocks are either duplicates of meteorites picked up on Earth, made in a ceramics lab, or just fake.

>> All right.

>> And NASA had no comment. What do you have to say for yourself for for a rock that had chain of custody from the moon to Neil Armstrong's hand to this museum and being a fake? NASA says no comment.

>> All right. you're peppering us with with fact after fact and and it's just too much. We need to stick to one thing.

much. We need to stick to one thing.

Okay. What what's one thing? Let's let's

stick on one topic so we can go back and forth and we can get Charlie's opinion on it. We can get your opinion on it and

on it. We can get your opinion on it and I can evaluate what's going on. Um let's

talk about the film. Okay. So, one of the biggest questions people have about this is why why was the why is all the original footage and the telemetry data

gone from the Apollo missions? Um,

but I want to clarify something first.

All of the footage that we have from the moon, was that shot on film?

Specifically on film cameras like 16 millimeter film.

>> We have we had a 16 millimeter camera.

We had a uh hostel blah which took right >> uh photographs >> and uh we had uh TV that sent back

television from the loner rover uh to Earth >> like a a specific type of camera for television.

>> Yeah. Was a television camera that we mounted on the front of the rover.

>> Okay. But this this then those don't use film. I'm not a camera expert. They

film. I'm not a camera expert. They

don't use film.

>> No, it was a TV picture.

>> Okay. Okay. So, it just broadcasts straight. Doesn't record anything on it.

straight. Doesn't record anything on it.

It's just live broadcast.

>> It was recorded down here in mission control.

>> Okay. Got it. Got it. Okay. I

understand.

>> But we didn't have a recorder on Well, we had I'm not sure, but I don't think we had a recorder on board.

>> Okay. So, the TV cameras were recorded down at mission control and those would have been recorded on tapes, I'm guessing. Right.

guessing. Right.

>> And those would be the tapes that have been erased.

>> Correct.

>> Okay. So that was the incompetence of NASA allegedly or intentional just like they intentionally destroyed the technology they intentionally erased the

tape they knew what they were the excuse was to make room for other projects.

>> So Steve if you ask uh chat GPT let's ask chat GPT what happened to the original tapes from the NASA missions and let's see what the answer it gives

is.

>> Well that would be this right here.

>> Oh you already have it?

>> Yeah. All right. So, the original tapes were later erased and reused. NASA

routinely used magnetic tapes in the 60s and through the 80s due to storage, cost, and shortages. So, that's that's crazy

that we that the tapes from the lunar missions were recorded over. They're

they're saying that the the >> Yeah. And they were recorded over

>> Yeah. And they were recorded over >> the locally recorded stuff was was uh this slow scan stuff filmed.

>> Yeah. No, I think it was taped. It's

actual tape like uh you know like tape recorders. Okay. They use that

recorders. Okay. They use that technology instead of film. And then

that stuff was recorded over but the stuff that they sent through broadcast survived.

Well, that's what it is. The Ron Howard, whose grandfather warned him that the moon missions were fake, didn't listen, wanted to make an IMAX movie.

>> And he requested all the original videotapes to be broadcast, projected on an IMAX screen about 100 ft by 120 ft, right?

>> Bigger than they've ever been done before. He wanted to use the originals.

before. He wanted to use the originals.

And it was between that request and a couple of days later that everything got erased. He had to go to Blockbuster and

erased. He had to go to Blockbuster and rent VHS tapes and reduce them to this tiny portion of the screen. Otherwise,

the image quality would be so bad. You

can see the VHS tracking line. 90% of

that movie is is reenactments.

>> Is that a fact that what year was this when Ron Howard requested the tapes?

>> It was around 1999, something like that.

>> So around Steve, hopefully you can look this up. Ron Howard was working on an

this up. Ron Howard was working on an IMAX film in around 1999. Requested the

original tapes from NASA and we you're saying it is an absolute fact that we can look up that NASA erased those tapes.

>> You just did.

>> Yeah.

>> Right after Ron Howard requested them.

>> Well, that was my research at the time.

I I did my film at sabrell.com took seven years to produce. I was given a million dollars by someone who builds rockets for NASA, who knows the moon missions are fake, who thought it was

his patriotic duty to expose it. Now,

not only is it the first time in history that technology is greater in the past and in the future, not only is it the only time in history that all of the documentation, all the technology,

according to NASA astronaut, was intentionally destroyed, it's also the first time in history that nobody could repeat the event 50 years later. Imagine

them splitting the atom in 1945, the first atomic bomb. And 50 years later, no one can split the atom. When in fact,

just 10 years later, atomic bombs were 1,000 times more powerful. So if they could go to the moon on the first attempt, ahead of schedule with 1 millionth the computing power of a cell

phone, we would have been on Mars 10 years later. would be in another solar

years later. would be in another solar system by now and there'd be bases all over the moon taking people back and forth to play basketball and one zero or

one six gravity. The best NASA can do today is send mannequins to orbit the moon when somehow we could play golf and drive cars on the moon with 1960s

technology on the first attempt. There

have been six presidents who have said a total of nine times they're going to return to the moon in 5 years. You had

Ronald Reagan said it, then Clinton said it, then Bush Senior said it, then Bush Jr. said it twice, and Obama said it twice, and Trump said it one time. And

they can't do it with 50 years better technology. They can't return to the

technology. They can't return to the moon in 50 years. But somehow they could do it with 1960s technology on the first attempt.

>> Why? Why? Why don't you think we've been able to go back to the moon since 7072?

>> Because they spent their money on other programs. >> Well, the government spends every month 70% more money than they take.

>> Look, I'm not going to argue with you about this. We went to the moon. Six

about this. We went to the moon. Six

times we landed on the moon. You lied to the American public six times, which the arrogance of the American. Well, then

you don't believe we landed on the moon.

>> You didn't know that before you got here?

>> Yeah. His life who how did how did we get 600 lb of moon rocks?

>> Well, like I said, >> let's talk about the moon rock. Okay.

Let's let's let's let's put a pin there.

Now, let's talk about the moon rocks.

Okay. What why evidence do you have? I

know you have some that proves that the moon rocks were not actually moon rocks, right?

>> Yeah. If you could find, let me find the clip here.

>> You can look it up. Uh Netherlands fake fake moon rock. Uh let's go to clip D7 real quick. This is a recent article

real quick. This is a recent article about the French government. And they

did they committed a crime in 1945 that they're still lying about today.

And what happened was their soldiers returned from World War II and wanting their back pay and they refused to give it to them because they were black. And

when they kept protesting, they machine gunned 300 of them in a single base and buried them. That just came out that

buried them. That just came out that happened in 1945. And play the clip and let's read this news article. It says

one of the things that they did was they fabricated.

>> What does that do with boon rocks?

>> Because it shows governments. It says

they fabricated and destroyed evidence.

So, we're going to look at the fabrication. I'm just trying to find the

fabrication. I'm just trying to find the clip here. It's out of sequence.

clip here. It's out of sequence.

>> All right. That has about the moon rock.

>> Or you could look it up. Look up fake moon rock in Amsterdam.

>> Yeah. Let's Well, yeah. So, are the moon rocks something that is available for the public to see? D29.

>> Yeah. I mean, the moon rocks are on on display all over the world and also they're they're still doing experiments on the moon rock. NASA's the Lunar

Planetary Institute or whoever it is is controlling those and sending those out.

People submit uh experiment requests still today about to do experiments on the moon rocks. So, there's still moon rocks available. And do they do they let

rocks available. And do they do they let outside researchers uh do an anal analysis on them and >> universities? Yeah,

>> universities? Yeah, >> universities do.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> I mean they let universities have some like I'm not involved in that at all.

>> Right. Sure.

>> And you know I've been with NASA for a long time but uh >> the moon rocks are unique. Mhm.

>> And uh and they're radioactive uh whatever and not radioactive evidence, but they're the way they are have been collected. They were collected on every

collected. They were collected on every mission.

>> Uh they were uh isolated when they got back and put in the uh lunar receiving lab. And now they're still being given

lab. And now they're still being given out uh samples. People are still requesting samples of moon rocks. And

NASA evaluates these experiments that that uh they request and apparently they're still uh giving some of it out.

I haven't been with NASA in a long long time, so I don't know how it works today.

>> So Bart, [clears throat] how do you explain us having actual moon rocks here on Earth?

>> Well, like I said, Von Braonn went to Antarctica. There's a picture of him in

Antarctica. There's a picture of him in Antarctica where he collected hundreds of pounds of lunar meteorites, which they use for fake moon rocks. NASA also

has the most advanced ceramics lab in the world where they could take a right a rock and falsify micromedorite sitting it. And then go to clip 29. This is

it. And then go to clip 29. This is

about moon rocks. It says they they opened one up and it proved to be fake.

Do you realize a few years ago a 70year-old woman >> was arrested by the FBI and thrown in a cell, not allowed to go to the bathroom.

She had to pee on herself because she had a paper weight with one speck of an alleged moon rock in the very center of it. And she couldn't pay her electric

it. And she couldn't pay her electric bill or mortgage and was given to her by her husband who got it from someone at NASA. And the FBI surrounded her to get

NASA. And the FBI surrounded her to get that so that it couldn't be opened and examined independently.

And this is just a tiny speck of a moon rock. Who is what was this woman's name?

rock. Who is what was this woman's name?

>> I don't know, but you could look it up.

70-year-old woman arrested for having a moon rock or trying to sell a moon rock.

>> See you find >> and play clip 29. You said, "What's the proof of the fake moon rocks?" You have D29 there, Steve.

>> Let's see it.

>> Look [clears throat] at D29. It's a

still of the article.

>> Okay. From the

>> given to Holland by Neil Armstrong is a fake. This is one that had complete

fake. This is one that had complete chain of custody from the surface of the moon >> to Neil Armstrong's hand to his pocket to the prime minister of the

Netherlands. Hermetically sealed opened

Netherlands. Hermetically sealed opened a few years ago after someone watched my film out of curiosity and it ends up being this out oforld looking piece of petrified wood. Now unless trees are

petrified wood. Now unless trees are growing on the moon, the moon rock is fake. And yet, no reporter has the

fake. And yet, no reporter has the courage to ask, "If the moon rocks are fake, what about the moon missions?" I

had a reporter from the Washington Post that broke the Watergate story. I showed

him the footage, which we're going to show, of them faking being halfway to the moon that says, "Don't show to the public at the beginning of it."

>> You're all over the place.

>> But the point the point the point is he he agreed that it proved they never left Earth orbit, but he was forbidden to publish it. Okay, you're we got to stick

publish it. Okay, you're we got to stick to one topic. Let's go back to the moon rocks. This piece of petrified wood that

rocks. This piece of petrified wood that you were showing that was given to the prime minister of Holland. All right. Or

I thought it was a Dutch prime minister.

>> The same thing in Holland. Netherlands.

>> I thought it was like the ne the Netherlands. Right. Correct.

Netherlands. Right. Correct.

>> Okay. I've heard this story before. I

heard you I first heard it from you. Um

I also heard a push back on this that it was not Buzz Aldrin or Neil Armstrong who gave it to the prime minister of the Netherlands. However, it was the US

Netherlands. However, it was the US ambassador to the Netherlands that gave him this thing.

>> Well, from my understanding, it went from >> So, it was not directly from >> Neil Armstrong is the one who said he picked it up >> and it was on a visit of him.

>> Said it to who?

>> He visited the Netherlands and gave it to the prime minister. He he claimed he claimed he picked it up and put it in his pocket. Point is,

his pocket. Point is, >> who gave who gave the prime minister of the Netherlands the fake moon rock? Who

actually gave it to him? So for 40 years, everyone thought it was a moon rock. It was built as a moon rock,

rock. It was built as a moon rock, picked up off the lunar surface by Apollo 11. They did a little tour around

Apollo 11. They did a little tour around the world afterwards. He gave moon rocks to various people.

>> Mhm.

>> He gave one to the prime minister of the Netherlands. It was sealed. It was

Netherlands. It was sealed. It was

opened up a few years ago. It was proven to be a piece of wood.

>> It says it says prime minister. Okay.

The rock The rock was not given to the Dutch prime minister by astronauts, but was instead given to the former prime minister William Drees by the then US ambassador William Middenorf in 1969

during a goodwill a goodwill tour by the Apollo 11 astronauts.

>> Okay, so >> the rock was later found to be fake and act and actually was a piece of petrified wood.

>> Okay, so Neil Armstrong was there at the visit. That's when the rock was given.

visit. That's when the rock was given.

He claimed he picked it up. The prime

minister of the Netherlands didn't pick it up. Neil Armstrong picked it up.

it up. Neil Armstrong picked it up.

There he is. Apollo 11 astronauts during >> How do we know? We don't we don't we don't know that. Okay. It says it was during the tour that could either Neil Armstrong.

So >> it seems the moon put the headphones on or you can't just keep talking over everybody, bro. It's like it's it's too much. I'm

bro. It's like it's it's too much. I'm

sorry. It's too much. He's his point is that this piece of moon rock that was given to the prime minister of the Netherlands during the Apollo 11

goodwill tour by with Neil and Buzz was later analyzed and found to be petrified wood and not a moon rock. That's his

evidence that the moon rocks aren't real.

Well, uh, I brought back, uh, couple hundred pounds, maybe moon rocks. I

don't remember exactly. And they are very unique. Uh, they got a radiation

very unique. Uh, they got a radiation history that is unique.

>> They look anything like that?

>> No.

>> No, >> they look like u uh look like charcoal and they don't look like that. Okay.

>> Uh, they look like more gray charcoal.

>> What was the biggest boon rock that you brought back? [clears throat]

brought back? [clears throat] >> I think 25 lbs.

>> Whoa.

Like roughly roughly how big?

>> I had to roll it up my leg. It was so fresh at Plum Crater.

And uh >> Is that a moon rock? Right. Is that a real moon rock?

>> We didn't collect anything like that.

The one on the right.

>> No. No.

>> What? What? Zoom out, Steve. See if you can find See if we can find something that um Charlie would think that looks like one of the moon rocks that he grabbed.

>> Does any of this look like one of the rocks that you had?

>> No.

>> No.

>> What if we Googled Charlie Duke Moonrock?

>> Oh, there you go.

>> Maybe Apollo 16 moon rock.

>> Oh, yeah. Or Apollo 16 moon rock. Yeah.

>> Uh Big Muy I picked up. Go left. Is that

big muy? The one on the left.

That one. The big big muy. No, the other one to the left.

>> That one.

>> Yeah. Uhhuh.

>> That's a That's That's a real moon rock.

>> That's I I picked it up. Yeah.

>> That was a 25 pounder.

>> I don't remember how No, it didn't weigh that much, but No, >> but I don't remember. We picked a total collection for Apollo 16 was probably a

couple hundred pounds.

And what when you got them into the uh the module, when you got the rocks in there, did you have them in any kind of specific bag or anything?

>> We had them in in uh uh vacuum vacuum um boxes, >> a lot of them, right?

>> And then a lot of them were just uh uh in a in in I don't remember exactly and none of them >> whether we had had them brought back or just didn't have room for them. in in

these rock boxes we call them.

>> Mhm.

>> But most of them were put in rock boxes outside and so never saw atmosphere inside.

>> Right. So once you took your suit off, you weren't able to interact with them at all. You couldn't touch them. You

at all. You couldn't touch them. You

could smell them.

>> I don't remember doing any of that. No.

>> No. What about once you got back to Earth? Did you touch them at all or hold

Earth? Did you touch them at all or hold them at all when you got back to Earth?

We went into the lunar receiving lab where they were and we were able to put on >> gloves or whatever it was and sterilized that uh >> thing and just look at them.

>> Mhm.

>> But uh I don't remember being uh picking them up and tossing them around or anything like that.

>> Were there any smells that you remembered? Like usually smells are good

remembered? Like usually smells are good at triggering memories. Like was there any any specific smell that was strange to you about the moon when you even when you got back in the >> Well, we were pretty stinky. I can say that.

>> A lot of BO.

>> A lot of BO, but nothing else.

>> No. No other interesting smells.

>> No. Well, I mean, some of the food smelled, you know, [laughter] you could, you know, smell a tuna salad or something.

>> What about like dust or something? Like

dust from the moon on your suit or on your boots or something? Anything like

that? No,

>> I don't remember any smell from the >> but it sometimes that smell that was a gunpowder smell sometimes. And

>> what was that from?

>> I don't know. [clears throat]

That's probably moon dust but I'm not sure.

>> Uh but it was there has no organic material in it like mo like gunpowder.

>> Right.

>> So uh >> Okay.

>> Okay. So these this moon rock debate is difficult because um we don't have any moon rocks and we haven't done any uh analysis on any >> we picked up that one big muy.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. It looks absolutely nothing like the petrified wood on the left.

>> No.

>> Um so it was given to this guy. So I

guess the story is the story is true. I

mean, we've if we've corroborated it with other with AI and with Bart's story, with Bart's article that that gift was given, but it wasn't it was given by the US ambassador to the prime minister of the Netherlands.

>> The one on the left.

>> The one on the left. Yeah. And it was uh he was told >> doesn't look like any of the moon rocks we collected.

>> Right. Right.

>> But you said they were different in different landing sites earlier. That

the rocks at your site in Apollo 11 were different.

>> Were the rocks different at different landing sites? Did they look different?

landing sites? Did they look different?

>> Not that I recall. Not that different.

They're not that much different, >> right? Okay. Okay.

>> right? Okay. Okay.

>> Um, >> the number one proof is what we have next. See, I'm answering your question

next. See, I'm answering your question about what proof there is. Now, I gave NASA the benefit about what specifically >> about how they didn't go to the moon.

They can't leave Earth orbit. They still

can't leave Earth orbit.

>> Are you talking about radiation belts now?

>> No, I'm talking about the footage of them faking being halfway to the moon.

>> The foot. Okay. The footage. Okay. I do

after this. I would like to talk about the radiation belts if that's okay.

>> That's next after this. Perfect. Right.

And and so first, let's look at the slide D8. This is at the beginning of

slide D8. This is at the beginning of the reel. I asked NASA for every video,

the reel. I asked NASA for every video, every film from Apollo 11, figuring if they faked it, they're more likely to have made a mistake the first time they

faked it. Now, keep in mind, I went from

faked it. Now, keep in mind, I went from being the biggest fan, gaga, worshiping the Apollo 11 project with pictures on my wall everywhere I went, like a

shrine, >> to having an open mind that maybe they faked it to looking into it, being given a million dollars by somebody who builds

rockets for NASA to investigate it, who said they were fake, and then stumbling upon this evidence, which is what convinced me that they were fake. In

fact, this footage was shown to two NBC news directors. They both agreed it

news directors. They both agreed it proved that Apollo 11 never left Earth orbit, and they were threatened by the federal government not to broadcast it

or to have their license pulled. So, the

first part you'll see in D8 is the slide that says not for public distribution.

>> Oh, it's not popped up.

>> Oh, there we go. Okay. So, there that shows that this is not for public distribution. Now, the next clip is at

distribution. Now, the next clip is at the very >> Yeah, let's let's read it. It says,

"This film of the Apollo 11 mission was produced as a report film by the manned spacecraft center and is not for general public distribution."

public distribution." >> Yeah, I asked NASA for unedited footage and everything I got was pre-edited with a voice over and it's the same footage over and over again on 10 different

reels, exact same footage. Most

reporters are satisfied with that. I'm

investigating the possibility that they faked it and I asked for everything, specifically unedited footage. I got

this and one other reel that was unedited. Now, at the very beginning of

unedited. Now, at the very beginning of the reel, clip nine, which you're about to play, you'll hear NASA say, "The TV picture looks great." Then there is

exactly 4 seconds of dead air. You'll

hear a third party that's not NASA, not the astronauts, presumably the CIA. And

after 4 seconds go by, they tell Neil Armstrong in a private earpiece, "Talk."

And then he starts speaking because he's claiming that he is halfway to the moon at this point in the mission. The time

stamp indicates according to the script that they're supposed to be halfway to the moon. In fact, they never left Earth

the moon. In fact, they never left Earth orbit. They can't leave Earth orbit now.

orbit. They can't leave Earth orbit now.

And there's a number of reasons for that. So,

that. So, >> Charlie, have you ever seen this footage before?

>> No. It's crazy.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, it is crazy how corrupt the federal government is.

>> Well, so I mean, you're calling me a liar. I never went to the moon.

liar. I never went to the moon.

>> Well, obviously. I mean, what what surprise. You knew who you were going to

surprise. You knew who you were going to be here. You knew who was going to be

be here. You knew who was going to be here before you got here. You act like it's a surprise. It's a good >> surprise. I didn't realize that you did.

>> surprise. I didn't realize that you did.

You thought it was all a fake.

>> You You knew that. You you reminded me of our phone conversation 20 years ago when you walked in the door that I said we had I had you you quoted me word I showed you his website that I had proof

that we didn't go to the moon. You knew

when he invited you this is no surprise and yet you're acting like you're surprised. This is why you should get

surprised. This is why you should get the Academy Award. Now the reason is if he's halfway to the moon there would be an estimated two second radio time there and two seconds back. So, they're

faking, >> sure, >> a radio delay. Okay. You'll hear NASA, >> you'll hear 4 seconds go by. You'll hear

a third party that's not NASA, not the astronauts, prompt Neil Armstrong with talk and that way they can fake the 4se secondond radio delay. Go ahead and play

clip nine.

>> 11 Houston Gstone says that the TV looks great.

Okay, Roger. We're

in Apollo 11. Houston Golfstone says that

Apollo 11. Houston Golfstone says that the TV looks great. Over.

Okay. Roger.

>> Okay. So,

>> and where how was it? Was it where did you get your get this stuffy from again?

from NASA.

>> NASA sent you this bill? Have you seen a >> second? One second. One second. They

>> second? One second. One second. They

sent it to you by mistake.

>> Either that or someone, one of my sources at NASA who said the missions were fake thinks a whistleblower sent it to me.

>> Okay.

>> And so, >> hold on, Charlie. What do you make of that?

>> I don't understand what he's talking about here, but the missions were not fake. They sent me to the moon, and we

fake. They sent me to the moon, and we understand that. You've been there for

understand that. You've been there for 56 years.

>> Hold on, Bart. The the footage that we just watched was from Apollo 11. Could

you hear it? Can you hear it in your headphones? It's it's Houston

headphones? It's it's Houston communicating with the astronauts on the radio and then you hear a 4-se secondond delay and then you can hear the audio of

someone going talk and then you hear Neil Armstrong responding to Houston.

Let's watch it one more time. Let's show

Charlie one more time.

>> Yeah, let's show him one more time. Just

read the text.

Call 11. Houston Golfstone says that the TV looks great. Over

>> 2 3 4.

>> Okay.

>> Does that make sense?

>> Houston.

>> They can't leave Earth orbit today and they can't leave Earth orbit in 1969.

Okay. Roger.

So, the footage is is is footage of the moon and you you could hear Neil talking to Houston, right?

>> In that video clip.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> You could hear them talking and there's a little voice that pops up after 4 seconds that says talk >> to Neil. Why would there be a voice?

>> I don't know.

>> Telling Neil to talk.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. He has

>> Are they on the moon or they >> they're halfway right?

>> They're supposed to be halfway through.

>> So, this is when they were halfway to the moon.

communicating with Houston and after Houston said something on the radio there was four seconds and then somebody on the radio saying talk to Neil instructing Neil to respond to Houston

after 4 seconds. Why do you think that would be?

>> I don't know.

>> Okay.

>> I've I've in my recollection in miss I in miss I was in mission control for Apollo 10.

>> Mhm.

>> I was Capcom. I was in mission control for Apollo 11. It's Capcom and uh nothing like this ever happened in mission control.

>> No, there would never be anybody saying talk to anybody. It would just be as soon as you hear it, you would respond >> generally. That was true. Yeah.

>> generally. That was true. Yeah.

>> Okay. What were the exceptions?

Uh [sighs] I can't think of any right now, but I mean if say again Houston or say you you a lot of reasons that that you mi

mission control had uh not mission control but uh uh we had uh problems scratchy communication.

>> So if you couldn't understand Yeah.

Okay. I see.

>> Say again. What? So whatever.

>> Yeah. Except the quality, the EQ of the audio of talk is completely different.

It's not obviously NASA who just spoke and it's not Neil Armstrong who responded. They're faking a 4se

responded. They're faking a 4se secondond radio delay to pretend that they're beyond Earth orbit.

>> So this is him. So So Bart's position is that video with them say with the voice coming in and saying talk is them trying to fake a 4se secondond delay. That's

part of his argument. [snorts]

So what I mean I don't I don't >> that's just one of his arguments is that there because you hear the the voice come in and say talk the talk comes in 4

seconds after Houston finishes their statement. Right. So

statement. Right. So

the presumption from BART is there's no delay, but they the astronauts were instructed to wait for 4 seconds until someone else came in and said talk. That

way it would look like there was a 4-se secondond delay and it would look like they were already halfway to the moon.

Right? Because if you play clip 11, Neil Armstrong for the TV audience, the part that was shown to the public, says he's calling in from about 130,000 mi out, >> right?

>> Halfway to the moon. Go ahead and play clip 11.

>> Roger. Houston Apollo 11. Calling in

from about 130,000 miles out.

>> Okay, so that's him lying. He's not

130,000 mi out. He's still in Earth orbit. That's why they faked the 4se

orbit. That's why they faked the 4se secondond radio delay. Now play clip 10.

Is this the Is this the photo of them faking the window thing?

>> Almost. The one.

>> Okay, let's try to let's try to go through this. We have a lot to cover and

through this. We have a lot to cover and we're almost two hours in.

>> We only have one window that uh has a view of the Earth and it's filled up with the TV camera.

>> Okay. So, go back to clip 11, the 130,000 mi out. Don't play the audio, but just bring up the image. You

can hit pause so we can see the image.

So, according to Neil Armstrong, there's only one window that has a view of the Earth, and it's filled up with the TV camera. Because if

camera. Because if >> Make sure you're talking to the mic.

>> Oh, yeah. So, if you were really halfway to the moon looking back at the Earth like this appears to demonstrate, even though it's a fake shot, you would have

to have the lens of the camera to the window in order to shoot the Earth far away floating in space. He says he's lying 130,000 mi out. And he says that

the camera is completely filling up the window. That's a lie, too. The camera is

window. That's a lie, too. The camera is really at the back of the spacecraft.

There's about 15 ft between the camera and the window. They've turned out all the lights, which they talk about because they thought these conversations would be edited out. And that's actually

the circular window of the spacecraft outside of which it's filled with the Earth in low Earth orbit. One

photographer cinematographer believes they took a a transparency a positive a slide of the Earth photographed from a satellite and placed it over the window

that was backlit by Earth Shine. Now, if

you play the final clip, um oh, the the D11, play it all the way through to revealing. So play 11 one

more time.

There were two clips on 11. So this is supposed into the mic. Oh,

>> no. Just let it play at normal speed.

This is supposed to be the Earth, but that's fine. This is supposed to be the

that's fine. This is supposed to be the Earth floating in space. This is the outtake. That's why it said do not show

outtake. That's why it said do not show to the public. There's Buzz Aldrin removing part of the effect in front of the window. That's a work light. The

the window. That's a work light. The

camera has been at the back of the spacecraft the entire time. The iris is opened and you can see the real location and the very bright Earth out the

window. They just faked being halfway to

window. They just faked being halfway to the moon. My critics agree that is them

the moon. My critics agree that is them faking being halfway to the moon. Two

NBC news directors agree that is them faking being halfway to the moon. And

they were told by the federal government if they broadcast it they would have their license pulled. So [clears throat] go to sabrel.com all of these clips can be seen there for

free. This is what convinced me. I gave

free. This is what convinced me. I gave

NASA the benefit of the doubt for as long as possible. And when I saw this they are faking half way to the moon. So

if you could really go to the moon why would you be faking any of it? And if

you're faking being halfway to the moon, it's because you can't go halfway to the moon. And what a surprise. 56 years

moon. And what a surprise. 56 years

later, they still cannot leave Earth orbit. Only mannequins can. And we'll go

orbit. Only mannequins can. And we'll go on to why next, which is the Van Allen radiation belt.

>> All right, hold on. Let's put a pause there. So, Charlie, on your trip on

there. So, Charlie, on your trip on Apollo 16, did you guys ever turn around and and take film or footage or any

photos of the moon or I'm sorry, of the Earth when you were about halfway?

>> Uh, I'm sure that we did. I don't

remember specifically, but we were.

>> If you were If you were to take a video or a film of the Earth on your way to the moon, how would you do it?

Well, you turn a window to the earth and uh and the there was a I had a window right up here which was a triangle. I

had a window right over here. Uh and in zero gravity you had to hold a camera up to the window towards the window.

>> Okay.

>> And of the objects you had out there. So

it you couldn't do it from any window.

It uh it just depends on how you oriented the spacecraft. So, okay. So,

you would be able to orient the spacecraft while you're traveling to the moon to line up a window with the Earth.

Yeah sure.

>> Okay. And so,

>> roughly how big is how big is that spacecraft? How big is the interior?

spacecraft? How big is the interior?

>> Less than the re if I'm in my couch, I can reach out and touch the the in my suit and I could reach out and touch the side of the spacecraft.

>> Okay. John Young on liftoff. Uh it was Mattingly I could he was touching my shoulder and on the other side he was touching uh John's shoulder and John was reaching out and touching the side of

the spacecraft.

>> But the command module roughly the command module.

>> Yeah. The command and service module were coupled together. So there was actually more depth than that. Okay.

>> No, not in the spacecraft. It wasn't.

They were they were the service module was hooked to the command the command module was sat on top of the service module and you and we received a lot of

stuff from the service module but the the command module was a separate entity and and didn't have a connection. There

were electrical connections and >> service connections but there weren't any uh >> pathway you couldn't go there.

>> Got it. Okay. And so you're saying it was roughly about maybe the size the the length of this table maybe a little bigger.

>> It's probably this table probably wider than Apollo spacecraft was.

>> Okay. And so

>> wise table.

>> So so when you were let's just say hypothetically you're on your way to the moon on Apollo 16. You look back. You

want to take a shot of the Earth at halfway, right? You're halfway to the

halfway, right? You're halfway to the moon. How would you position the camera

moon. How would you position the camera inside the spacecraft >> to shoot the Earth? First off, you'd have to get a window looking at the earth, >> right?

>> Okay.

>> Right. And you could get the window. You

face the earth. It was a there was a triangular window here and a window here for me.

>> How was what what what was the shape of the other window for you?

>> I think it was sort of a triangular shape.

>> Triangular shape. Okay. Anyway, you

could get up there with a camera and just look out and if if the spacecraft was not rotating the held position, then you could just reach out and just start

taking pictures. Was your hustle blot or

taking pictures. Was your hustle blot or the 16 mm camera we had. We didn't waste film though.

>> And you would put it basically right smack dab up to the window.

>> No.

>> No.

>> Sometime you would.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. depends on

uh what you were trying to what you were trying to look at. If the earth was out there and you wanted to get right close so you could see the whole of the earth, you would you could get back

>> and uh you could see you could still see the earth out there, but it was like you were looking through a 4 foot of air in a spacecraft. So, you'd want to get up

a spacecraft. So, you'd want to get up right next to it to get to the window.

Right. And how fast was was the craft moving at that point? halfway.

>> It varied. It uh

>> roughly >> Well, it took 72 hours to get to the moon. It's 200 something,000 miles. So,

moon. It's 200 something,000 miles. So,

on average it at uh 3,000 m an hour.

>> 3,000 mph. Okay.

>> Okay. So, um this footage is as Bart described from Apollo 11 and they have the camera. Steve, do you have you have like a a rendering of the of

the spacecraft?

>> Uh, yeah. Give me a second.

>> So, we downloaded a 3D render of the interior of the spacecraft, and I want to see if it's accurate, first of all.

Um, this is it.

So, this was created uh by the Smithsonian, >> and it's a supposed to be a perfect 3D render. Does that look Does that look

render. Does that look Does that look right?

>> Uh that's that's the hatch right there.

Yeah, that would be the hatch.

>> And there was a a window and then on the right side I had a window.

>> Mhm.

>> Well, on this side wait a minute. I'm

>> I think we were in the >> I was I would be on the other side.

>> So he was on the left side.

>> Which Apollo mission is this rendering of?

>> Do they have different ones for every Apollo?

>> No, that's all the same.

>> They're all the same.

>> Mhm. Which is the number one?

>> Specifically Apollo 11.

>> This is specifically Apollo 11. Okay. So

this would have been the same craft they were shooting from in that video that you provided.

>> Okay. So um

which window Bart were they filming from based on [clears throat] >> refer to it as the number one window. So

and it appeared to be circular on camera. And like I said, another

camera. And like I said, another cinematographer thinks they put a device over the window with a photograph of the Earth.

>> I don't see any circle windows at all in this.

>> Was there a circular window uh in there, General?

>> That's kind of like a square. It's like

a rounded square.

>> This way. Uh and there there might be a circular window and a hatch. I don't

remember.

>> So, the hatch is missing here.

>> So, maybe that's what they were filming out of the hatch.

[snorts] >> Well, no. Well, the hatch would be open and uh sometimes you could if you got right up close, you could see the hatch being >> Yeah, I think you're right. The circular

window was >> So, find a find a photo of the hatch for the lunar module and see if there was >> not the lunar module, the command.

>> The command module, I'm sorry.

>> Well, we already [snorts] have them claiming that the camera's up against the window when in fact it's at the back of the spacecraft.

>> Okay. So, there's the video. It's a

circle window >> breaking down. We I mean you look at it where he says he's 130,000 miles out and the other the second half of it

>> where they start fiddling with their hands in front of the window. It's the

same shot.

>> They claim it's 130,000 mi out and then the moment later you see it's the window being made up to look like the Earth floating in space. Go back a couple of seconds.

>> So you Okay, so pause it right there.

Pause it right there. So, Charlie,

uh, move the guy out of the way of the window so we can still see the interior of the spacecraft.

>> So, that window straight ahead that's got like light glaring through it.

>> Circular. It looks circular.

>> That's circular, right? So, that would be the hatch, right?

>> That's the hatch.

>> That's the hatch. Okay. So, the camera is basically as far back as it can possibly be inside the command module.

>> That's in the lower equipment bay. It

would be >> the lower equipment bay. Okay, cool.

Now, play it so we can get a better idea of there. They're the camera is staying

of there. They're the camera is staying there and they're adjusting the exposure.

>> Yeah. Right there.

>> So there you can see.

>> So they a moment ago they claimed that was 130,000 miles out the Earth floating in space, but it's not the Earth floating in space. It's the window being made to look like the Earth floating in

space. So they're faking being halfway

space. So they're faking being halfway to the moon. So why would they fake being halfway to the moon if they really went halfway to the moon?

>> Well, let's you don't even have to go that far. Okay, let's let's say why are

that far. Okay, let's let's say why are why why are they shooting it from so far back?

>> Why wouldn't they put the camera up to the window?

>> They we did at times, but sometimes you just want to look at the inside and it's what the gu is doing.

>> But right the other side of the spacecraft.

>> Understood. But if you go back, they're showing it with the entire interior blacked out. Steve, if you rewind it.

blacked out. Steve, if you rewind it.

Yeah, that's so that he can get exposure of the the if you got the outside if you got the windows o not open but uncovered you're

going to get light reflected from the earth and light from the sun into the spacecraft.

>> Right. So go go to the beginning. Go

forward a little bit more. So it just shows you. So see they're they're

shows you. So see they're they're filming it.

>> They claimed that was the earth floating in space.

>> It looks like they're trying Do you understand why Bart thinks they're trying to pull some sort of camera trick? They're trying to It looks like

trick? They're trying to It looks like right now if you paused it right here and you showed that to me or any other dumb dumb like me, you would think that the black is just space, right? And

that's just the Earth floating in space.

That's what it looks like to me.

So, hit play now. And he's saying while they're

now. And he's saying while they're filming it that they're 130,000 miles out, >> which is not true.

So there's the Earth.

>> So it's like, wow, look how small the Earth is way floating away in outer space and it's pretty incredible.

And then this is the same foot, you know, this is not cut. This is the same same same footage. And the camera's sort of wobbling. There's something weird in

of wobbling. There's something weird in the top left corner. Maybe a light.

>> It's a work light that they diffused so it wouldn't throw light on the spacecraft walls. Now it's like now

spacecraft walls. Now it's like now there's something moving in between the camera lens and the window.

>> Yeah.

>> So it's not space. It's just the interior of the spacecraft.

>> That's right. It's the window of the spacecraft being made to look like the Earth floating in space.

>> Right. So if if they are trying to pull a camera trick here, Bart, now look. You

see the windows totally blown out.

>> That that's what it would look like, >> right?

>> Okay.

>> They had the iris the hatch. the hatch. That That's the uh

the hatch. the hatch. That That's the uh hatch went uh the hatch window.

>> Mhm.

>> And then there's another triangular window.

>> Yep.

>> And there was one on my side. There was

another I forgot exactly what the space was, but there was windows right here and I could look out that window.

>> Mhm.

>> And there was a on the other side there was a docking window. You looked out when you had to

window. You looked out when you had to dock >> and there was a tri I forgot exactly the shape. maybe oblong rectangle or

shape. maybe oblong rectangle or something like that. And then there was a round hatch window.

>> And then there was uh a window on the left. I could look out my on my I was on

left. I could look out my on my I was on the right side and I could look out a window. It was right there. And John

window. It was right there. And John

Young had a window on the other side.

There was a hatch window above us and it was two windows up in beyond the uh uh the lower equipment bay. Mhm. So, so

Steve, go back. Go back to where it's exposed for the interior.

So, right there, that's the hatch window.

>> Yeah. The round.

>> Is that how bright? Okay. Move the hand.

>> Okay. Is that H would it be that bright?

>> Yeah.

>> 130,000 mi away. If that window was facing the Earth >> at at 130,000 mi out, is that how bright it would be?

>> It's facing more to the sun than the Earth. Well, the video is claiming

Earth. Well, the video is claiming according to the video, Neil is saying that that's the Earth.

>> That wouldn't be the Earth. Wouldn't

>> that would not be the Earth.

>> That picture is not the Earth. Well, it

is the Earth. That's the reflection off of the Earth.

>> That's that's Earth shine.

>> Well, this is this is kind of incredible because he's saying it's not the Earth.

>> Well, it is clearly they just faked being halfway to the moon.

>> Well, the video is >> because they're in Earth orbit. That's

the Earth out the window. It's filling

the entire window, >> right? But listen, Charlie just said at

>> right? But listen, Charlie just said at 130,000 mi out, that is not what it would look like. Okay. This video

clearly is Neil Armstrong saying they're 130,000 miles out.

>> Mhm. Yeah, I understand. It's a fake shot.

>> So that's why Bart believes that there's there's something weird going on. So if

they were in Earth orbit, wouldn't you see the Earth moving by super fast? Like clouds moving by. You

super fast? Like clouds moving by. You

would see land moving. They would be fly if you look at footage from >> That's why David Percy, a cinematographer, award-winning BBC cinematographer, said they took a

photograph from an unmanned satellite and they had like a positive kind of like an X-ray but a color print that was translucent and they put it over the

window.

>> That's what they were removing when the you see the yellow circle around the window. They're removing the photograph.

window. They're removing the photograph.

So, it's a photograph that's being backlit by Earth Shine >> of the Earth with a terminator line.

They're shoving it in the window.

>> Put a little crescent piece of material into the window. I see what you're saying to fake the terminal is dividing night and day.

>> So, I don't understand the purpose of this conversation. So, so this video

this conversation. So, so this video that we're watching right now that you just watched, >> this is a video of Apollo 11 and Neil

says in the beginning of the video that they are 130 130,000 miles away from the moon. So, he say he said that he just

moon. So, he say he said that he just said they're halfway.

>> Yeah.

>> And you just said there's no way they're halfway.

>> I didn't say that.

>> Judging by the looking at how bright that window is, you said if that's the Earth, it wouldn't be that bright.

>> I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I

said that could be the sun shining then.

>> No, no, but I'm saying if that was if that window was facing the earth at 130,000 mi, you said it wouldn't be that bright if that was facing the earth.

>> You would see the earth. You wouldn't

see the This is the sun shining in.

>> Okay. But Okay. Hypothetically, if that window was facing the Earth at 130,000 miles, you said it wouldn't be that bright a minute ago, right?

Uh the earth was never that bright.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. You look out the window and you you s you'd look out the window and you'd see the Earth just hung up there, >> right? It wouldn't be blasting through

>> right? It wouldn't be blasting through the window like that.

>> What about from Earth orbit? Would it be that bright from Earth orbit?

>> Uh depends on where you are.

>> So, it might be that bright from Earth orbit. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Um

orbit. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Um

>> I don't understand the purpose of this discussion.

>> Well, they're faking being halfway to the >> because he thinks this is a fake shot.

He thinks he thinks that the He thinks that this craft right here is in low Earth orbit and they're trying to fake it by moving the camera back and

exposing for the window to make it look like Earth is really far away and the surrounding inner spacecraft that's underexposed is just space. He thinks

they're trying to make some sort of a camera trick to fake that they're halfway to the moon when they're really in low Earth orbit. That's what Bart's claim is. When you're in low Earth

claim is. When you're in low Earth orbit, you look out and you and your windows are facing at the Earth. You

look down and you just see nothing but Earth, >> right?

>> And you're whizzing by, right?

>> It you see the you can go over Australia or you can go over the Pacific. You look

It depends on where you are >> and you're in a lower Earth orbit, you look out the window.

>> It might it might look something like that filling the windows with light.

>> You're No, it would not.

>> Okay. Well, that camera >> only if the windows are pointed towards the sun, >> right? Okay. I see. I see. Well, you a

>> right? Okay. I see. I see. Well, you a moment ago you said it might look like that from Earth shine in Earth orbit.

>> It depends on the exposure of the camera. Yeah,

camera. Yeah, >> the Earth shine. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Steve, what were you going to say?

>> It looks like this. It's not the It looks like So, cuz I'm also a cinematographer and I would say that that window that that's probably the color of the window.

And the sun is Can you see this mouse?

Yeah, the sun is probably somewhere over here poking through. You can see these rays shooting in right there.

Um, it's kind of hard to tell because he's got light bounce on his shoulder and he's got light bounce on this elbow.

It's likely hitting some part inside of the spacecraft and bouncing back and it's filling in his face over there.

It's lightly kissing the the shoulders here. But, uh, you can always tell

here. But, uh, you can always tell sunlight cuz you can just look for the brightest thing and that's would be that ray shooting through. So, it's probably just veiling the glass. And the glass

is, you can see there's color right there.

>> Yeah.

>> And you can see there's a similar color right here. So, this one's getting a

right here. So, this one's getting a blue color, too.

>> It is a blue. I think it's a tint. And

what you're seeing there is even when you back up o over here, this is just a bokeh ball.

>> A bokeh ball showing whatever the the lens is seeing. And this texture is probably the cabling that you see later on. Or it could just be like

on. Or it could just be like imperfections in the glass. Um, but

that's >> that looks like the Earth to me.

>> That looks like the Earth to me, too.

>> But it's out of focus.

>> Obviously, it's not. It's the window.

>> And it's got a perfect Terminator line, too.

>> Go to the part where they're fiddling with it in front of the window. Go back

another 15 seconds and hit play.

>> It's mis misformed because it's uh >> play.

>> So, Steve, you don't think they're trying to film the Earth here?

>> I don't think so.

>> Play. They're looking at the window.

They're definitely trying to film the Earth. where they claim it's 130,000

Earth. where they claim it's 130,000 miles out. It's a duplicate of this.

miles out. It's a duplicate of this.

>> This is later on in the tape.

>> It's very confusing.

>> It's supposed to be halfway to the moon.

And now you see them breaking down the effect, removing the transparency of the photograph of the Earth in front of the window. The camera was never up against

window. The camera was never up against the glass. It was at the back of the

the glass. It was at the back of the spacecraft. They closed the iris down so

spacecraft. They closed the iris down so that the walls became black. And here

they are removing part of the effect in front of the window. All right. This is

what convinced me. and to NBC news director and an award-winning cinematographer and my critics agree it is Apollo 11 faking being halfway to the moon. Okay,

moon. Okay, >> so why would they fake being halfway to the moon if they really went to the moon? And if they're faking being

moon? And if they're faking being halfway, >> it's because they cannot go halfway.

They cannot leave Earth orbit. And we'll

go into why, which is the radiation belt that surrounds the Earth, >> which we're going to do. We're 2 hours in. We have an hour left. Uh, but coffee

in. We have an hour left. Uh, but coffee is here and I need to go to the bathroom. So, we're going to take a

bathroom. So, we're going to take a quick break. Coffee break, bathroom

quick break. Coffee break, bathroom break. We'll come back, talk about the

break. We'll come back, talk about the radiation belts. Be right back. Okay,

radiation belts. Be right back. Okay,

now we're we're back. We're going to talk about the radiation belts, the Van Allen belts. Um, what is your position

Allen belts. Um, what is your position on the Van Allen radiation belts?

>> Well, my position is what Von Braun's original findings were, which is that it's 250 times a lethal dose. We have a quote from him in print that he says

that if you do the math and if you first show slide D12.

>> Okay, before you get to D12 for people that don't know that are listening to >> this is an image of the belt.

>> So yeah, the Van Allen radiation belts are basically large to toroidal donutshaped pockets of radiation that exist about what is it a thousand miles out from the Earth.

>> And extend about 30,000 miles.

>> Extend about 30,000 miles. and every

single space shuttle launch uh basically every astronaut and every uh space shuttle launch, every moonwalk that's ever or I'm sorry, not moonwalk, spacew

walk that's ever been done has been done below that in low Earth orbit. The only

astronauts, the only manned mission that has ever been outside of the Van Allen radiation belts is the Apollo missions. Is that

correct?

>> Through them. If you look at D12, you can show the audience what they look like and how every man space mission, Mercury, Gemini, Skyab, the space

shuttle is well below it. And this field of radiation starts at 1,000 miles and extends about 30,000 mi. If you go to D13, this is a press release from the

Apollo mission that was given to the press. They launch from Florida to be

press. They launch from Florida to be near the equator and they go right out through the middle. You see that? Right

at the equator. They go through the Van Allen radiation belt. Now, if the spacecraft, like General said, is going

3,000 m an hour and they're 30,000 mi thick. That would be 10 hours in the

thick. That would be 10 hours in the radiation to the moon and 10 hours back.

I believe maybe the spacecraft was going a little bit faster, but in any case, it was at least two hours in the radiation

to the moon up to 10 hours and another 2 to 10 hours back. Now, the Orion mission

sent up Geer counters into the radiation belts in 2014, unmanned, and they registered the radiation. I

called NASA. I said, "I'm a journalist.

This is a non-military taxpayer-funded scientific mission. Can I please have

scientific mission. Can I please have the Geiger counter readings?" They told me that was classified.

They weren't able to tell me. Now, when

NASA sent probes to the sun to find out the temperature of the sun, the temperature wasn't classified. And when

they sent probes to Jupiter to measure the amount of helium in Jupiter's atmosphere, the amount wasn't classified. So why would the amount of

classified. So why would the amount of radiation inside the radiation belts and a spacecraft intending to one day send people to the moon, why would that radiation

measurement be a classified secret?

>> Charlie, do you know why that would be classified?

>> I didn't realize it was.

>> So I would imagine that if it was classified, we would classify it because we wouldn't want the Soviets or the Chinese to know the actual level of radiation. like

radiation. like what is the point of this discussion >> to the point that we're discussing now is Bart's position that the Van Allen

radiation belts are too dangerous for human beings to pass through and survive and he's building his case to why that is right now.

>> Well, I you you have to accelerate to 25,000 mph to get out of Earth orbit.

>> Okay. Okay. I thought you said it was 3,000.

>> Let him let him talk. He said he was at 3,000 when they were halfway.

>> Sorry.

>> Slowing Earth's slowing you down.

>> Okay. So, the total distance of the moon is about 3,000 m an hour.

7 time 70, that's 210,000 miles. Okay.

>> Okay. So, when

>> Well, so when you go through the Van Allen belts, you're going so fast, it's just you're through.

>> How fast were are you traveling when you guys were going through the Van Allen belts, do you know? uh escape velocity is about let's see I don't remember exactly 36,000 ft per second or something like

that.

>> NASA told me it was 17,000 mph.

>> No, that's Earth orbit.

>> That's Earth orbit.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Then you have to escape Earth orbit.

>> Accelerate. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was 20 is over 20,000 m an hour to get out of Earth orbit. And so the

orbit. And so the S4B, the third stage of the Saturn rocket, you stayed attached to and that engine lit and pushed you out of Earth

orbit on a trajectory to the moon through the Van Allen belts. Then then

that after that all was done, you shut you separated, you turned around and retrieved the lunar module from the third stage. It was riding underneath

third stage. It was riding underneath the command module and service module.

So you you separated and you turned around and you came back in and you docked and then you when you got all the electrical connections made, you flipped

the switch and it released all the bolts and then you could back it out from the surf the third third stage of the Saturn rocket.

>> Okay. When when you guys were traveling through the Van Allen belts, did you were you guys paying close attention to uh like where in the Van Allen belts you were? And also before you before you

were? And also before you before you like when you were preparing, you guys did an unbelievably amount unbelievable amount of prep and training for this, right? What were the com for the whole

right? What were the com for the whole mission, right? What were the

mission, right? What were the conversations like during training with anybody including Von Braonn um about

astronaut safety when it comes to radiation and the Van Allen belts? What

were those conversations like?

>> Uh it the it there wasn't very much conversation about it. It wasn't any danger. You're going through so fast,

danger. You're going through so fast, you just you're you're exposed to so much radiation, but it's just boom, you're through, you know, and and

the belts are high radiation, but they aren't the very thick. So, you just go right straight through them and you don't get much radiation. I don't

remember our doceimeters.

We had domters, several of them on our body and some in a spacecraft. I don't

remember.

>> And that measures the level of radiation >> that we're receiving. Yeah.

>> Okay. Mhm.

>> Yeah. According to NASA, the radiation belts are 30,000 mi thick, >> right?

>> And if you were going 20,000 m an hour, that would be an hour and a half. And

the radiation to the moon >> would be an hour and a half. It'd be a little over an hour.

>> Well, 30 30,000 miles would be if it's 30,000 mi thick and you're going 20,000 mph.

>> You said 25.

>> Well, he said 20.

>> No.

>> Well, and you start you start out at 25,000 mph, but you slow down. Earth

gravity slows down.

>> At the time you're traveling through the Van Allen belts, through the outer part, the thick part of the Van Allen belts, how fast would you be going?

>> I don't remember exactly.

>> Over 20.

>> Yeah, over 20.

>> Over 20,000.

>> Well, then that would put you.

>> So, you'd be there for an hour roughly.

You'd be in the Van Allen belts for an hour.

>> How thick of the I don't even remember how thick they are.

>> Well, according that math would suggest that it's about an hour in there, right?

Maybe a little bit more.

>> Yeah. About an hour and a half to the moon, hour and a half back at 20,000 m an hour. But then there's a

an hour. But then there's a contradiction. And if you're going

contradiction. And if you're going 20,000 m an hour with inertia, you'd be at the moon in a little over 10 hours rather than 3 days. The

>> But they slowed down, right? Don't they

slow down >> once they uh allegedly once they got to the moon? Obviously, they would have to

the moon? Obviously, they would have to slow down to land on the moon. Now, the

>> May I say something?

>> Yes. Yes.

>> Okay. So, you leave Earth orbit. You

You're in Earth orbit. You got to accelerate to leave Earth orbit. C I

don't remember exactly the figure but there you you accelerate to earth then the earth starts slowing you down. Okay.

>> At what point does it start slowing you down? Exactly.

down? Exactly.

>> As soon as you shut the engine off.

>> Okay. Got it.

>> Okay. But you're at beyond an you you had enough velocity to get out of Earth orbit and go straight to the moon or or or you got shot out in front. It's like

being a shotgun shooter.

>> Here's your you aiming this way, but here's the target. the time you get there, you're in in orbit. I mean, you get to there so

you can get into orbit.

>> Uh, and uh, I lost my train of thought now, but what what was so the it was never a problem with us about being in the Van Allen belts. You go through so

fast, you don't get that much radiation.

So, you guys never had a conversation about what trajectory to take through the Van Allen belts because they can be thinner at the top and they're wider at the at like the equator, right? So, you

guys never like decided we got to go through it at this angle or that angle.

>> We never The crew had no say. Got it.

>> Mission control major trajectory.

>> And you weren't aware of it at all either.

>> Oh, yeah. We we knew when we were going through the Van Allen belts.

>> Oh, you did know when you were going through the Van Allen belts. Okay. And I

think that I don't remember exactly but we had dimeters in the spacecraft and they must have read something but I don't remember the the details.

>> Okay, >> we have clip 14 of Kelly Smith of the Orion project which they said the radiation readings were classified.

Here's a video of a new generation of NASA astronauts. We saw one saying they

NASA astronauts. We saw one saying they intentionally destroyed a technology for the first time in world history. And

here we have the young guy in his 20s saying that the belts are dangerous radiation and the technology to go through them has not been invented yet.

>> And this is from 2014. This video he's about to play is from 2014 during the buildup to the Orion missions. Right.

missions. Right.

>> Mhm. [clears throat] D14.

>> We are headed 3600 miles above Earth.

15 times higher from the planet than the International Space Station.

As we get further away from Earth, we'll pass through the Van Allen belts, an area of dangerous radiation.

Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice. Once up and once back. We must solve these [music]

back. We must solve these [music] challenges before we send people through this region of space.

We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges

space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region [music] of space. Okay. So he

said we must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. So the radiation protection is a challenge that has yet to be resolved. We must solve these

challenges in the future before we send people through this region of space. So

the challenges of the radiation have not been resolved.

And they must do it before they send people through this region of space. So

that right there >> never went to the moon.

>> Well, what do you No, no. What do you make of that though? Like what what do you make of that this astronaut in 2014 saying that we have to solve the

challenges of radiation before we send people to the Van Allen belts? What What

is your reaction to that?

>> Through the Van Allen belts. Is that

what he's saying?

>> He does he say through? Yes.

>> No, he said into this region. I believe

he said >> Oh, yeah. I wouldn't want to orbit in it. He said through this region of

it. He said through this region of space.

>> Can you play it again? Can you say play exactly what he says again? Did he say through or >> through?

>> We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space.

>> Through this region of space is what he said.

>> Yeah. Onto the moon. The project is Orion, which intends to send people to the moon.

>> Through this region of space.

>> Was Orion was that the objective of Orion to send people to the moon?

>> That's right. It was this the precursor to Armmitus. So it's all about

to Armmitus. So it's all about >> Google. What was the objective of the

>> Google. What was the objective of the Orion missions?

>> The objective of NASA's Orion mission was to transport human crews on deep space missions starting with a return starting with a return to the moon under the Aremis program and eventually

extending to Mars. Orion is designed to provide long duration crew support, protect astronauts from deep space radiation, and handle high-speed re-entry into Earth's atmosphere. Okay,

>> Mars [snorts] makes more sense because you're going to be out there for way longer.

>> Well, look at article. Well, he's

talking about just through this region of space, which is the Van Allen radiation belt. We must solve the

radiation belt. We must solve the radiation challenges, which means they're not solved. And then he says before >> we send people through this region of space. So, if they haven't been resolved

space. So, if they haven't been resolved yet, then the Apollo astronauts didn't go through them. It says so right there.

>> It's definitely I'm not saying that the astronauts never went to the moon. I'm

not I'm in the middle here. But it is very weird that a guy in 2014 would say we have to solve the problem of the Van Allen belts radiation before we go through. It's it's odd, right?

through. It's it's odd, right?

[snorts] >> Sounds like to me it's odd, but we did it, >> right?

>> Okay.

>> Well, that's that's why I'm saying you did not.

>> Right. Obviously,

>> where did 200 lb of moon rocks come from?

>> We [laughter] just showed you. Von

Braonn picked him up from Antarctica.

There's a picture of that on the web picking up lunar meteorites before he went to the moon for the first time.

Seems like a weird use of his time. Moon

rocks have proven to be fake. And

according to a contractor that I spoke to at length, he says NASA has ceramics which can mimic moon rocks. Now, go to link 15 as we stay on the radiation. And

this is an article from Reuters that [clears throat] says, "Radiation prevents travel to the moon." That's

slide number 15.

>> Well, I I walked on the moon. I don't

know about anybody else, but I >> You keep saying that. We know that.

You've been saying it for 56 years and you're not going to admit your guilt.

Nobody who was, you know, brought to trial for crime ever admitted. going

through each piece of evidence and trying to rationally analyze what it means and let the audience decide.

>> And a lot of this I realize you haven't even seen yet. Like obviously you hadn't seen that video of that guy in 2014 saying we have to solve these issues.

But it's it's weird. And that's the case he's making. This is some of these

he's making. This is some of these videos that we're playing are some of the reasons that people are questioning it.

>> Go ahead and play it.

>> Do you know how fast you're going when you get leave Earth orbit? How fast?

>> Guess you said 3,000 miles. You said 20,000.

No, he didn't. He said Bart. He did not.

He said that they were going 25 I think 25 or something like that or 30 when they were leaving Earth orbit and then they slow down and there's different speeds along the pathway along the journey.

>> Okay. Well, let's read this article heading and what's highlighting.

>> You leave you leave Earth orbit.

[clears throat] I think it was 25,000 m an hour. You accelerate to 25,000 mph.

an hour. You accelerate to 25,000 mph.

Mhm.

>> You leave Earth orbit and then from there on you start slowing down, >> right?

>> Okay.

>> And then when you get to the moon, you accelerate because lunar gravity takes over and you accelerate >> and so you're going too fast when you get there, whip you around and bring you home.

>> So you put the engine >> in the front, >> right? and you and you point in

>> right? and you and you point in direction you've come from and you burn the engine 6 minutes or so to slow down to get into lunar orbit.

>> Okay. So, at 25,000 m an hour inside something 30,000 mi thick is over an hour. Hour 15 minutes.

hour. Hour 15 minutes.

>> You're not going that fast when you get to the moon.

>> Okay. But you said you went through the Van Allen radiation belt >> at 25,000 m hour, but then you slow down.

>> Okay. But that's not the issue. The

issue is you were inside the belt because they're 30,000 miles thick for over an hour. An hour and 15 minutes going to the moon and an hour and 15

minutes coming back. Would anyone

survive getting an X-ray for an hour and 15 minutes? No.

15 minutes? No.

>> Survived. Well,

>> well, first of all, that's that's one of the reasons why he didn't read this article. What's keeping us from Mars?

article. What's keeping us from Mars?

Space radiation says expert. You want to read that cuz you're blocking me. What

does it say? I I can't see because of the play thing.

>> Go ahead. Take it from the top and hit play.

>> It says uh Washington Reuters by uh by Maggie Fox, health and science editor.

Cosmic Okay. Um cosmic rays are so dangerous and so poorly understood that people are unlikely to get to Mars or

even back to the moon until better ways are found to protect astronauts, experts said on Monday. So if the radiation is too severe to travel to the moon today

with superior equipment, how did you go 50 years ago with inferior equipment?

>> We did it.

>> Well, we know that. You've been saying years.

>> What What are you aware of?

>> Still here.

>> What are you?

>> Which was proof you didn't go through the radiation.

>> Charlie, what sort of >> I went to the moon.

>> We picked up We picked up moon rocks.

Was there any sort of special shielding or materials used on the exterior shell or the hull of the spacecraft to protect from radiation? Nothing.

from radiation? Nothing.

>> Okay.

>> Not our camera. [clears throat]

>> D16 is a quote from Van Allen who discovered the belts about the magnitude of the radiation. Play D16. Here's

here's the guy who discovered the belts.

They're named after him.

>> And read what he says about the radiation.

Okay, this is from Dr. James Van Allen.

Uh, he said this in 1959.

Our measurements show, can you hear me, Charlie?

>> He said, "Our measurements show that the maximum radiation levels as of 1958 is equivalent to between 10 and 100 uh, >> rinkkins,

>> rinkkins per hour, depending on the still undetermined proportions of protons and electrons. Since a human being exposed for two days to even 10

rogue tins would have only an even chance of survival, the radiation belts obviously present an obstacle to space flight.

>> And then read the bottom part.

>> But two, this says two days exposed for two days to even 10 roans. They were

only in there for uh an hour, a little over an hour each way. So read the math under underneath it. So, okay, 10 to 100

roadkins per hour averages to about uh 10 to 100 roadkins per hour averages to 50 per hour. Okay. At the claimed speed

of the Apollo craft, this this is not James Van Allen saying this. This is

somebody who else who's saying this?

>> Well, this is the person who wrote the article.

>> Okay. So this person who wrote the article said that um at claimed at the claimed speed of the Apollo craft this would be 2 hours in the radiation to the

moon and 2 hours in the radiation back from the moon or 200 roadkins. Since 10

roadkins over 2 days will kill you which is 2 roadkans per hour. The radiation

belts are 250 times a lethal dose.

>> So that's one reason. Okay. Where can we This is on your website. Where can we find this?

>> What's the purpose of this discussion?

>> This is saying this is Bart is claiming that James Van Allen himself said that the amount of radiation that you would

get traveling through the belts would kill you. He said this in 1959.

kill you. He said this in 1959.

>> How fast would be He's saying how fast does he say we're going?

>> It doesn't It just says the amount of time. He's talking about the amount of

time. He's talking about the amount of time. He's saying two hours.

time. He's saying two hours.

>> Radiation is built based on strength and time of exposure.

>> So he's saying the Apollo astronauts, >> how thick are the belts?

>> 30,000 miles.

>> The the Van Allen belts are 30,000 miles thick.

>> Yes, Google it. Let's Google it. How

thick are the Van Allen radiation belts, Steve?

>> It may be more than that. They keep

claiming they discovered extra layers of it that actually add to the thickness.

So I'm supposed to be dead allegedly >> if you went through the belt. But

>> let's check his pulse.

>> So we So we didn't go through the brand Allen belt. Let's see. According to

Allen belt. Let's see. According to

Kelly Smith, you did not. Solve these

challenges before you go through.

>> The thickness of the Van Allen belts varies. The inner belt is uh from Okay,

varies. The inner belt is uh from Okay, don't tell me all this. Okay, this says uh the outer belt

is for 8,000 to 37,000 miles.

So they fluctuate, but at at the maximum 37,000 miles thick.

>> So that means you guys would have had over two hours of of exposure to the belts.

>> Did James uh that the Van Allen belts uh did he say that the radiation belt would >> Well, this is Google AI. It's going to be biased.

>> Yeah. I mean, how does it know Lincoln was the 16th president? It was

programmed to say that, >> right? It's it's reading articles. Now,

>> right? It's it's reading articles. Now,

now the next issue. Yes. This is

anecdotal stuff, but like we have to acknowledge that uh the vast majority of anyone writing about the Apollo missions or any government agency is going to say that James Van Allen didn't say this and

Google AI is pulling from this overwhelming amount of stuff that's written online. So,

written online. So, >> so that's that's one reason why they can't leave Earth orbit. And another

reason is they don't have enough fuel.

And my book Moonman on page 149, here's Von Braun saying it himself. There's not enough fuel to

himself. There's not enough fuel to leave Earth orbit.

>> Let's hear Let's hear that.

>> It's commonly believed that men will fly directly from the Earth to the moon.

>> But to do this, we would require a vehicle of such gigantic proportions that it would prove an economic impossibility.

Calculations have been carefully worked out on the type of vehicle we would need for the non-stop flight from Earth to the moon in return. The figures speak

for themselves mathematically. Three

rockets would be necessary and each ship would be taller than the Empire State Building, 100 stories. Apollo rocket was about 30 stories and weigh about 10

times the tonnage of the Queen Mary or 800,000 tons times three. The Saturn 5 weighed 2,500 tons. That's a difference of

2,500 tons. That's a difference of 30,000% times three. Now go to clip 18 and

times three. Now go to clip 18 and you'll see that Elon Musk just said, >> "All right, Bart, pause. Where where

where did you get that quote from?"

>> It's from his book, Voyage to the Moon, written by Von Bra.

>> Is there a way we can find that quote on the internet?

>> Uh, probably. I mean, we we got bought an old copy of his book. Okay.

>> And it was written by him and quoted by him. So, if it's on the internet, Steve

him. So, if it's on the internet, Steve will find it.

>> What's the purpose of this discussion?

>> You don't know. The purpose of this discussion is uh uh >> we didn't go to the moon. [laughter]

>> Allegedly, you're just proving if you're if you're acting like you don't know prove that you're acting during the interview. So, he's not the only one who

interview. So, he's not the only one who said you need multiple fuel troops to go to the moon.

>> So, von he's saying von Braun himself was quoted saying that uh the Apollo missions would need multiple fuel.

>> Three rockets, each one 30,000% heavier than the Saturn 5 rocket. Yeah. And then

Elon [clears throat] Musk said about 6 months ago, if you go to clip 18, he said the Starship, which is three stories taller than the Apollo rocket

and with the boosters on the side, carries twice the fuel as the Apollo rocket. He says it will take 15 launches

rocket. He says it will take 15 launches or the equivalent of 30 Saturn 5 rockets in order to leave Earth orbit. We even

have a video clip of Von Braun saying everything the best rocket he can build can only leave Earth orbit.

>> Let's let's play that clip. Let's play

the clip of Von Bronze from the horse's mouth. Let's get what he's saying. What

mouth. Let's get what he's saying. What

clip number is that so Steve can find it?

>> What clip?

>> Uh that one I I didn't include, but how can we find it?

>> Just go to sabrel.com. It's one of the links of the of the book.

>> I don't understand this. I don't

understand this conversation. Well, he

did it.

>> I understand. I understand that's your position that you did it and and you went and you walked on the moon and you brought back the moon rocks. But why

would Von Braonn say that it was impossible to get to the moon without multiple fuel trips?

>> I don't know. I don't I never heard him say that.

>> Well, we got a video allegedly.

>> Okay.

>> Well, and look at the look at the clip of Elon Musk.

>> Find I want to see the clip of Von Braun.

>> Show us where to find the Von Braun clip. Let's stick to one thing. He

clip. Let's stick to one thing. He

doesn't have it.

>> Well, it's if you go to sabro.com and then go to Moonman Links, >> look for the one that looks like old 1950s color >> and there's one of Von Braonn. I don't

know what clip it is. But in the meantime, while you're doing that, >> No, no, wait, wait. You're you're you're going you're getting too far ahead of yourself. We're here now. Where do we

yourself. We're here now. Where do we go?

>> Scroll down. Keep scrolling.

Just keep going. Keep going.

>> F Maybe Maybe you can find it on YouTube. Maybe you can find it on

YouTube. Maybe you can find it on YouTube or something. Yeah, I decided not to bring it, but Von Braun says, "The largest rocket that we can build, it's with Disney film, can only achieve Earth orbit." He says it word for word

Earth orbit." He says it word for word in a quote from my book. And now we have Elon Musk. If you go to the clip of uh

Elon Musk. If you go to the clip of uh D18, he's saying the very same thing. Look at

D18.

Read this headline and read the highlighted part.

>> Okay, this is a headline from space policyonline.com.

policyonline.com.

Uh, okay. At least 15 Starship launches needed to execute the Aremis 3 lunar landing. SpaceX will need to launch at

landing. SpaceX will need to launch at least 15 Starships to execute the Aremis 3 lunar landing, NASA said today.

So NASA said, so SpaceX will need 15 Starships to execute it, says NASA.

Starship cannot twice the fuel. Starship

cannot fly directly to the moon, but must refuel in Earth orbit before setting out for deep space.

>> Yeah, that's what the clip of Von Braonn says that I didn't include that you can go to the moon if you do multiple trips of fuel and f the fuel first.

>> And now go, you're going to love this next clip. Go to clip 19. This was said

next clip. Go to clip 19. This was said less than a year ago by a rocket scientist who works with NASA and he says it's going to take possibly more

than 15 trips of fuel in order to leave Earth orbit and go to the moon.

>> So we did do it is what you're saying.

[laughter] >> I don't know why you keep acting surprised.

>> Go ahead.

>> You're just proving your acting. You

know, you you came in here and reminded me of a phone call we had 20 years ago when I said, "I have proof we didn't go to the moon when I found the footage."

>> So, this guy issues in how people communicate about it. Like there's some architecture problems that people are unwilling to talk about these days because of how they got there politically. And I was like, you know

politically. And I was like, you know what? I just want to go say the thing

what? I just want to go say the thing that nobody's saying. So, that's what I decided to do. Now, a lot of people I respect when I was doing my research and asking these questions, they said, "Be careful, Destin. If you say certain

careful, Destin. If you say certain things, this might change your relationship with NASA forever." And I thought about it and I decided, you know what? This is the truth and this is what

what? This is the truth and this is what needs to be said. I did not understand until this week when I really thought I was going to embarrass myself in front of you guys and then decided to further

embarrass myself in front of you guys. I

didn't realize that in order to get the human lander to the moon, we have to launch a bunch of additional rockets to tank up in low Earth orbit. I didn't

know that. And I'm like, well, how many rockets do we have to do that with? And

they're like six.

>> And then I start cuz I >> Who is this?

>> He's a rocket scientist building rockets for NASA.

>> What's his name?

>> I don't know.

>> That's that's would be important. That

guy, he's a YouTuber. Is he uh has a channel called Smarter Every Day.

>> Smarter Every Day on YouTube.

>> Okay. So, he's saying it's going to take multiple >> Let's finish playing the video.

>> Yeah.

>> I know people I started calling people.

I was like, "Dude, really? How many

rockets is it?" They're like, "Well, boil off." And Okay. So, I was like,

boil off." And Okay. So, I was like, some people are like, "Well, it's looking like eight." I was like, "Eight rockets? We have to fire eight rockets

rockets? We have to fire eight rockets to fire one rocket to the moon?" Then

they're like, I mean, that's what they're saying, but it's probably more like 12 really. And then I was like, you know,

really. And then I was like, you know, I'm an engineer. I know how to do this stuff. So, I started to account for like

stuff. So, I started to account for like nominal schedule slip and boil off. And

this is how many rockets it's going to take to fuel up that thing to get it to the moon. I've done the math. If you had

the moon. I've done the math. If you had any questions, I found the Von Braun clip. It's D17. There, Steve. Okay. Von

clip. It's D17. There, Steve. Okay. Von

Braun says, "The biggest rocket you can build can only achieve Earth orbit. You

need multiple fuel trips to go to the moon.

Okay.

>> Says it on camera as well as in print.

>> All right. This will be good for for Charlie to see. Charlie, watch this one.

[snorts] >> Here to reveal a plan for a trip around the moon is a chief of the guided missile development at the United States Army's Redstone Arsenal, Dr. Werner von

Braonn.

A voyage around the moon must be made in two phases. A rocket ship taking off

two phases. A rocket ship taking off from the Earth's surface will use almost all the fuel it can carry just to attain a speed great enough to balance the pull of gravity.

Unpowered, it will then keep circling the Earth in an orbit outside of the atmosphere.

This is the first phase. However, if we can refuel the ship in this orbit with fuel brought up by cargo rocket ships, it can set out on the second phase, the

trip around the moon.

and back.

>> So, three people just said, von Braun said it twice, that you have to make fured fuel trips to have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit. You had him say it on

camera, you had Elon Musk say it, and you had a rocket scientist building rockets for NASA saying it. He also

said, "I just discovered this." Because

he is taking the Apollo launches on faith. You know, my bank webs web web

faith. You know, my bank webs web web page says that my money is backed by the faith in the United States government that kills their own presidents, kills

their own soldiers, and fakes [clears throat] moonland teams. Right.

So, so, um, Charlie, what do you make of that video of [clears throat] von Braun saying that that you would need to refuel in Earth orbit to get all the way to the moon and because it would take He said it would take all the fuel in the

rocket to get that orbit around the Earth and then you would need to refuel again before going to the moon.

>> I've never heard that before, actually.

[clears throat] Uh, they built the Saturn 5.

>> Yep.

and and the Saturn 5 >> lifted uh lifted off and the third stage that you stayed attached to the third stage and you were on on the front end

with that with the command model service module lunar module you fired out of earth orbit and you got your and you started way to the moon so that's [clears throat] the end of the Saturn 5

I mean this S4B >> okay >> okay it took it opened up the pedals opened up and exposed the lunar module.

You separated the command service module and then beneath it, these flowers opened up and they and exposed the top of the lunar module. So you made a

180°ree turn and you came back in and you joined up with the top of the lunar module. That was the docking ring. and

module. That was the docking ring. and

you you docked, you latched all the latches, made sure you were connected correctly, you hit a a switch,

uh you hit a switch and you uh of some sort and it released the lunar module and then you just backed it out with your reaction control system in the

command service module. Mhm.

>> And uh and then so that was the condition you went to the moon in a barbecue sometimes in a barbecue with the lunar module attached.

And we went into it uh to check it out, make sure there was no leaks, this and that and the other. And but then we closed it back up again. And then we didn't go in again until we got into

lunar orbit. M we got into lunar orbit

lunar orbit. M we got into lunar orbit and John and I I was the first one in and I'd put on my space suit except for helmets and gloves and took those with

me and then we went into the lunar module and I started powering up and uh that I forgot exactly how long that took but it was several

revolutions. and John came in and when

revolutions. and John came in and when we got ready uh we put on our helmets and gloves and uh and pressurized to make sure these everything was

pressurized the suits to make sure everything was okay.

>> And when everything passed uh we just I forgot whether Mattingly hit the button or we hit it was Mattingly and he just released us and we just backed off.

Well, von Braonn in my book Moonman, he said that these numbers are mathematically irrefutable. The numbers

mathematically irrefutable. The numbers speak for themselves. Things become more fuel efficient over time. So, it's

taking a tremendous amount of more fuel to go to the moon now than in 1969. Von

Braonn said it's impossible twice. Once

in writing, once on camera. Elon Musk

with a rocket that carries twice the fuel of the Apollo rocket says that you cannot go unless you make 15 fuel trips first, which is an equivalent of 30

Saturn 5 rockets. And we just heard a rocket scientist say he may get in trouble with NASA for saying this, but it's going to take 15, 20 up to, you

know, 28, I counted all of them in the graphic, 28 clips to go to the uh ships to go to the moon. The next three clips I have are people like Kelly Smith and

Don Pettit, modern-day astronauts, and they say the farthest they can go is Earth orbit. This is clip D20. And they

Earth orbit. This is clip D20. And they

hope to eventually go to the moon. Play

D20. It's

>> Well, Bart, when it comes [clears throat] to What's the point of this discussion? We did not go to the

this discussion? We did not go to the moon.

>> You're just digging your hole deeper every time you say that, General.

>> So, Bart, when it when it comes to >> Wait, wait, wait. Yeah.

So Apollo was all faked >> according to Bart. Yes, it was all faked. It was a big prop propaganda

faked. It was a big prop propaganda campaign during the Cold War.

>> And so we had 260 something pounds of moon rocks that were brought back.

They're all faked.

>> I guess Bart hasn't hasn't seen them, hasn't analyzed them.

>> Yeah. You remembered word for word a telephone conversation we had 20 years ago and at the beginning not recorded and somehow you can't remember what we said a half an hour ago that the moon

rocks are fake. We showed an article von Braonn picked up hundreds of pounds in Antarctica right before the Apollo mission and according to a contractor they can manufacture them. Go to clip

D20.

>> Just let me make I I I was in delusion for two weeks.

I was on the moon for three days.

>> Well, you said you have top secret just a minute and I picked up 200 I think we picked up a couple hundred pounds of moon rocks.

>> Mhm.

>> And we brought them back. They've been

analyzed. They're moon rocks. And I So I don't understand the purpose of this discussion. What why are we going back

discussion. What why are we going back and saying Apollo was a fake? Why does

an Apollo astronaut have top secret clearance?

>> I didn't have top secret clearance.

>> Oh, okay. I thought you said that clip.

>> I mean, I we had nothing in Apollo that was classified. That's But that I did have a

classified. That's But that I did have a a a clearance from a milit my military time uh when I was before NASA and I did have a top secret clearance in.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. Clip D20 is a modern-day shuttle astronaut saying the farthest they can go is Earth orbit and they hope to eventually go to the moon. D20

[clears throat] D20. Let me look at it.

D20. Let me look at it.

>> So when it comes to the evolution of rockets and technology, um it's not necessarily that the the Saturn rocket would be impossible to

make like it wouldn't be physically impossible, but an argument would be that it's logistically impossible because today in 2025, we don't have the

same machines. We don't have the same

same machines. We don't have the same talents. We don't have the same trades

talents. We don't have the same trades that we h that were available in the 1960s because the world the world has evolved. The economy has evolved. We do

evolved. The economy has evolved. We do

things differently now. Objectives have

changed. Now we're focusing on building reusable rockets. So the Saturn was not

reusable rockets. So the Saturn was not a reusable rocket, right? So now we're trying to save money developing a new style of rocket. So that would be a

compelling argument to why we haven't gone back to the moon is because we build rockets differently because the objectives have changed.

>> Well, all I know is what Elon Musk says.

For a rocket that can carry twice the fuel of the Saturn 5 Apollo rocket, it's going to take 15 launches to a fuel station first in order to have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit to go to the

moon. He said it. The rocket scientist

moon. He said it. The rocket scientist just said it. Von Braonn said it on camera. Von Braonn said it in writing

camera. Von Braonn said it in writing and we're about to look at a shuttle astronaut >> who says the farthest they can go with the technology we have is Earth orbit

and they hope to eventually go to the moon. That's clip D21. It's real short.

moon. That's clip D21. It's real short.

>> So that that smarter every everyday that that YouTuber that Smarter Everyday YouTuber he was the out of context it sounds the way it does but he was here I'll pop it up here.

>> Okay. So, um, he was, his name is Destin, and he was talking about how poorly planned the current moon mission is that they and and he was pointing out

that this particular Starship HLS, which is the return rocket, it's this thingy right here, it is uh so heavy um that

their their plan isn't going to work out. out. And so he did the math uh with

out. out. And so he did the math uh with the current weight and and he and that's why he said it's not going to work out.

You need all these rockets. So here's

the uh weight of this uh thing that they want to build.

>> This is a different a different rocket.

>> This is the one that they haven't built yet, but they want to. It's 100 tons.

Okay. And then the original Apollo lander was 33,000. No, no, no. The moon

lander.

>> Oh, the moon lander was 35,000. 33,000

lb.

>> 33,000. We're talking about the rocket to leave Earth.

>> He's talking about the lander.

>> This is the lander. So to have a Saturn rocket carry just 35,000 lbs is nothing.

[snorts] That rocket cannot carry 100 tons.

>> So what is this? The dry empty weight of the Starship human landing system is approximately 100 tons. So they're

saying that this rocket would need to carry something that's 100 tons compared to the Apollo lander which was 33,000 lb. Yeah, that's the that's the that's

lb. Yeah, that's the that's the that's an important >> important context.

>> Well, von Bra I don't know anyone who knows more about it than Von Braun.

>> Von Braun was talking about 33,000lb lander that the what this astronaut that you just showed us talking about talking about all the refueling, you have to understand the context that the lander that they're talking about shooting off

into to the moon was a 100 tons according to this.

>> So that would make sense to the moon in 57 years. Uh, I would go just as

57 years. Uh, I would go just as efficiently as humanly possible.

>> And for the first time in history, technology was destroyed. The lunar

module schematics, the original videotape, it's all been destroyed.

Right?

>> Again, you don't do that unless you're covering your tracks. And we have Elon Musk saying it's going to take 15 chips.

You have that guy saying it's going to take to up to 28. You had von Braonn say, okay, von Braonn was the designer of the Saturn 5 rocket. He says it's

going to take multiple fuel trips to go to the moon. If that's what it takes today, then that's what it would take then, despite the design because von Braonn was talking about the lunar

module. He's the one who ended up

module. He's the one who ended up designing all of that stuff. And he says that equipment is going to take multiple fuel trips to leave Earth orbit, >> right? But the again, this thing weighs

>> right? But the again, this thing weighs 100 tons they're trying to bring to the moon. So back then when Charlie went to

moon. So back then when Charlie went to the moon allegedly the goal was to beat Russia, right? All they cared about was

Russia, right? All they cared about was getting man on the moon to show the world that America was the number was the world leader in technology and

science and and was and was more superior to Russia. Right? You could you could make the argument that the primary goal of the Apollo missions was to just show the world that we're better and

just show that we can actually physically put a human being on the moon.

>> You're right. It was a show >> now. Right. Right. Doesn't mean it would

>> now. Right. Right. Doesn't mean it would had to have been fake. It what it could mean is that we just wanted to get people on the moon no matter what. We

could do it with the most efficient light equipment possible. Now, if we wanted to go back today in 2025, we would have a different objective. we

would want to get more done. It wouldn't

just be about putting a person on the moon and show and broadcasting that to the world. It would be about something

the world. It would be about something far greater like populating the moon or something like this. So, it would require different technology. It would

require bringing different things to the moon and it would also require maybe not taking such a risk, right? Like they

obviously that was a big risk going there in ' 69 and bringing human beings there. today. Today you could argue that

there. today. Today you could argue that we wouldn't want to make that level of a risk.

>> Okay. So, in writing and on camera, von Braonn talking about the future Apollo rocket, the first rocket to go to the moon. That's the one he was designing.

moon. That's the one he was designing.

That's the one he said it would take three rockets weighing 30,000% more than the Saturn 5 rocket. That's what he said on camera. The first rocket to the moon,

on camera. The first rocket to the moon, which is the one they claimed they used, it can only go into Earth orbit. And

then it would take multiple fuel trips in order to go to the moon. That's the

first one, not the current one. Right?

Then we have also Elon Musk saying multiple fuel trips. We have that guy saying multiple fuel trips. That's for,

you know, whatever spacecraft just to get there and land. It's going to take all of that fuel, multiple fuel trips.

They set it back and before the Apollo rocket and they're saying it to quote return to the moon. Okay. And clip D20 is a space shuttle astronaut saying Earth orbit is their limit. That's why

they're faking being halfway to the moon. And that clip we showed for

moon. And that clip we showed for radiation. We must solve these

radiation. We must solve these challenges before we go through that region of space. Here's an astronaut in clip 20 saying the farthest they can go with current technology is Earth orbit

and they hope to eventually go to the moon.

>> Okay, let's watch it. 30 seconds.

>> Right now, we only can fly in Earth orbit. That's the farthest that we can

orbit. That's the farthest that we can go. And this new system that we're

go. And this new system that we're building is going to allow us to go beyond and hopefully take humans into the solar system to explore. So, the

moon, Mars, asteroids, the moon, Mars, asteroids, the moon, Mars, asteroids.

There's a lot of destinations that we could go to, and we're building these building block components in order to allow us to do that eventually.

Eventually. Eventually.

>> Right. Yeah. He says eventually go to the moon. And he's not the only one.

the moon. And he's not the only one.

There's two other short clips.

>> I mean, if he's misspeaking, >> then we have three people misspeaking.

The next one says this is the beginning of humans leaving Earth orbit. That's

clip D21. The beginning of Earth of humans leaving Earth orbit is what this astronaut says. Clip 21.

astronaut says. Clip 21.

>> Okay. But we're also really pushing the boundaries in terms of where we're going forward with exploration. I think uh humans are naturally driven to do this.

And this is really the beginning the beginning the beginning I think of human beings leaving low earth orbit. And the

next clip is from about I think about four months ago, an astronaut for the Aremis program saying, "This is going to be the first

time we send humans to the moon." Even

says before it, "You got to pay attention. You may not like this or

attention. You may not like this or words to the effect that the other guy said."

said." >> Okay. This is the last the last clip

>> Okay. This is the last the last clip we're going to play on this topic. Then

we're going to move to the next one.

>> Sure. That's how I have it.

>> Okay.

>> This is going to be an odd answer. It

might it might hit it might land wrong, but I'm going to try anyway. Uh to

[snorts] This is the first time we're going to send humans to the moon. This is the first time we're going to send humans to the moon. This is the first time we're

the moon. This is the first time we're going to send humans to the moon. Even

>> what did he say after that? You cut it out. What did he say after that?

out. What did he say after that?

>> Well, he went on talking and they passed the microphone back and forth. How do

you know 3 hours?

>> How do you know he didn't How do the viewers know that he didn't say in 53 years or something like that? Like you

just kind He didn't. You can find >> Take your word for it, I guess. Yeah, I

mean I listen to it. It's just they passed the microphone around. He even

said >> something to the words of the effect this may rock the boat of the audience or whatever. Something like that.

or whatever. Something like that.

>> Okay.

>> All right. Um I want to talk about the micrometeorites.

What was the threat level of like the micrometeorites when you were on the moon? Um because from what I understand

moon? Um because from what I understand is there are there's a high risk of being hit by micrometeorites right when

you're on the surface of the moon. Uh we

had a uh if they if they saw a solar flare, it the only thing I remember if we had a solar flare, we would have to get back into the lunar module and then

lift off and then join up and point the heat shield towards the solar flare. I

don't remember anything about micromedorites. No, there was no

micromedorites. No, there was no discussion or no warnings about trying to mitigate >> no mitigate microte's book, the one that has the quote which is called voyage to

the moon. He says that micromedorites

the moon. He says that micromedorites would cause a catastrophic or fatal error. 50% chance every 24 hours.

error. 50% chance every 24 hours.

Thousands of them hit the moon every second. He says you'd have to

second. He says you'd have to immediately go into a lead shelter or a cave on the moon. He said it would cause death 50% of the time every 24 hours.

There's so many of them.

>> Well, we made we made it a lot longer than that and nobody >> Yeah. with somehow 16 tanks of oxygen in

>> Yeah. with somehow 16 tanks of oxygen in that little backpack in order to be out there for eight hours at a time.

>> The to me this is one of the most striking examples of why the moon landings are fake. If you look at D23, this is the shadows.

>> Okay, let's see.

>> I'm a filmmaker.

>> Oh, the shadows. Okay.

>> My my job as a filmmaker is to make fake scenes look real. Yeah.

>> I use lighting to mimic the sun all the time. Fooled other filmmakers. They

time. Fooled other filmmakers. They

thought it was the sunset, but it was really a light. You can prove that the moon landings are fake with this one picture because the sun being about a thousand times bigger in diameter than

the Earth cast shadows in the same direction over the entire Earth or Moon.

They're always parallel. It's

mathematically and scientifically impossible for shadows to intersect in sunlight. As you can tell in the

sunlight. As you can tell in the photograph on the left, the photograph on the right is allegedly from the last mission to the moon where an astronaut shadow goes at 12:00 and a rock about 5t

away goes at 9:00. That's a 90° difference from objects 5 ft apart indicating that at least two electrical lights are being used. You can even see

a hot spot around the top. So, if you want to prove the moon landing is fake, you can prove it in one photograph. The

photograph on the right cannot be duplicated in sunlight. It's supposed to be 20 times brighter with no atmosphere.

There's no need for electrical lighting, but obviously the one on the right was lit with electrical lighting. The

shadows should be parallel. They're

intersecting at 90° from objects 5 ft apart. that would prove it in a court of

apart. that would prove it in a court of law as well as the footage we have of them being faking being halfway to the moon that they didn't go to the moon.

That's all the proof you need. It's

right there. People can deny it. I

talked to a college professor who teaches aerospace at one of most famous one in America. He says if Neil Armstrong confessed on national TV that

the moon missions were fake, he'd still think he walked on the moon anyway.

>> People deny the evidence over and over again. They made a god out of it. You

again. They made a god out of it. You

can change the hat on who shot JFK and why. You can change the hat on who did

why. You can change the hat on who did 9/11 and why. It's still a tragedy. This

is a positive lie and people do not want to give it up. I got an email from Carl Sean's associate who told me privately that he believed the moon landings were

fake, but he was afraid to say it publicly because of it being politically incorrect. And Carl Sean said this. One

incorrect. And Carl Sean said this. One

of the saddest lessons of history is this. If we've been bamboozled or lied

this. If we've been bamboozled or lied to long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no

longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us.

truth. The bamboozle has captured us.

It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan, like

taken. Once you give a charlatan, like the federal government, power over you, you almost never get it back. And Mark

Twain said, "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." The problem, this is a

been fooled." The problem, this is a positive lie. This is giving candy to a

positive lie. This is giving candy to a child and trying to take it away. And

people keep defending the people who are ripping them off because our tax dollars went into paying the salaries of the CI agents that killed the Apollo 1 crew

>> on the shadows. You can get shadows to angle towards each other in sunlight.

>> It's a fact. You can do it depending on your your focal length of the lens and how far away you are from the objects.

With one single light source, it you can very easily make it appear as if shadows are aiming towards a light source. It's

the sun.

>> The sun. Correct. You can do that with the sun.

>> I I'd like to see it. We could go outside or whatever, but and and you're right about the lens. This is a 50 mm lens.

>> Okay. Let's watch this. This is uh this is by the everyday astronaut. He made a he made a video.

>> The people who believe we went to the moon.

>> All right. Well, you're the people who believe we didn't go to the moon. So, we

This is a fair shake shadow argument.

>> Yeah. Let me Let me say this.

>> Okay. If they went to the moon even though it can't be repeated 50 years later by no nation on earth and they can only go 1,000th of far now despite I understand this. No, but here's the

overall point of a person like this point. Okay, I understand

point. Okay, I understand >> if if they went to the moon then the amount of evidence I have is zero. And

yet, if you look up moon fraud, you get a thousand1 YouTube videos by people who were deceived, who have made a god out of the moonlanding, who if they, if I

went around saying Mickey Mouse was the first president of the United States, you think there'd be a thousand videos to disprove me, the reason why there are is because there's so much emerging

proof that the moon missions are fake and they're scrambling to somehow justify all the condemning evidence like O. But Jay's defense attorney. No matter

O. But Jay's defense attorney. No matter

what evidence is presented, they have some excuse for it.

>> Sure. Okay. We're going to watch this video of the Everyday Astronaut discussing the lunar shadows. Full

screen this because I think this is very compelling. And this is uh Go ahead.

compelling. And this is uh Go ahead.

What seems like inconsistent shadows is a common thing for people to point to as suspect of a hoax. for this. Let's take

a look at this photograph that some people question, saying it was shot in a studio and is proof the Apollo landings were fake. It's from Apollo 17 magazine

were fake. It's from Apollo 17 magazine 136 frame 20,744 shot on one of the iconic Hustelblot

500EL 6x6 medium format cameras with a Zeiss 60mm f5.6 six lens by astronaut Harrison Jack Schmidt at mission elapse

time of 122 hours 32 minutes and 50 seconds in the Taurus Litro Valley. The

claim here is that these shadows appear to be coming together proving there to be multiple sources of light or perhaps a light that's far too close. Certainly

not the sun that's millions of kilome away. This is one of the easiest things

away. This is one of the easiest things to demonstrate on your own. All we have to do is go out when the sun is fairly low in the sky, about 15° above the horizon to match the lighting conditions

in the photo. Then we need a lens that would be 35 mm on a full-frame camera or a 35mm equivalent lens since the 60 mm lens on a medium format camera is equal

to about 38 mm. So to get the same perspective and angle of view, we'll want to aim for, you know, 35 mil or 40 m. And we just needed our camera to be

m. And we just needed our camera to be placed roughly midchest to match where the hustle blobs were mounted.

>> Little play. Little play.

>> On the A7LB spac suits. It's pretty

obvious that all shadows appear to point inwards towards the center of the photo.

The further left or right an object is, the more this is exaggerated. And

honestly, this is perhaps one of the most elementary of all things. They

appear this way because of perspective.

The exact same way parallel train tracks or roads appear to converge. And to

prove these shadows are indeed parallel, let's just fly up and look down to confirm that they're indeed straight and parallel. Now, ironically, conspiracy

parallel. Now, ironically, conspiracy theorists claim something exactly backwards. They say shadows appear to

backwards. They say shadows appear to converge because it's a close studio spotlight that is roughly 10 ft behind the subject. But the closer a light

the subject. But the closer a light source is to the camera, the more the shadows appear to line up with the camera's field of view. So the shadows actually become less and less visible to

the vantage point of the camera the closer the light source is. Again, this

is kind of photography 101 stuff here.

Now, it's often claimed that there are multiple sources of light and that's why the shadows appear to be in different directions. But the reality is that

directions. But the reality is that multiple sources of light will produce multiple shadows on a single subject.

And actually, the lighting on the surface of the moon would be virtually impossible to replicate in a studio, even with limitless funds and the most advanced solutions in the world. Because

notice that in all the images, the entire surface of the moon is equally lit. Since we don't see multiple

lit. Since we don't see multiple shadows, you couldn't use multiple sources of light to try and evenly light the scenes, let alone mountains that are several kilometers away from the camera.

And light follows the inverse square law. If you move an object twice as far

law. If you move an object twice as far away from a light source, it'll receive one quarter the amount of light. So

imagine trying to light a scene where everything is evenly lit and you don't see multiple shadows. Your light source would have to be several kilometers away, maybe hundreds or millions of

kilometers away, and it would have to be unbelievably bright. Or perhaps, you

unbelievably bright. Or perhaps, you know, it could just be the sun. And

while we're talking about shadows, >> go back toward the beginning of the video where he's trying to mimic the picture that I showed where there's that little L bracket that's painted white,

which is supposed to represent the rock.

Yeah. Okay. Go there. Make that full frame. Okay. The the shadow of the

frame. Okay. The the shadow of the little L bracket or whatever it is is not intersecting at 90°. It's not

pointing at 9:00 in the in the picture that they claim was on the moon. It is.

Put them side by side. Plus, he's using a wide angle lens, which is the type of lens they use in a drone.

>> A wide angle.

>> No, that's not a drone right there.

>> Causes a little bit of a curvature in the picture.

>> The rock is not pointing 90°, though.

>> Well, >> the top of the rock is like right here.

>> The top of the rock goes up like that.

And it's it's projecting that way. It

just looks wider because the rock is wider right there.

>> It's like poking out right there. It

makes it look like it's pointing. Well,

I mean, compare it with the with the one move this over to the left and put it side by side.

>> Yeah, it's the same exact thing.

>> They're not they're not the shadows are not going the same direction. Okay. He's

trying to mimic the >> are going the same direction. Bart,

>> this is sunlight and they are not intersecting in the same way in the picture that they claim on the moon.

It's not. He's making excuses. But if

you look at them side by side, the object that's representing the rock, the shadow is going a completely different direction.

>> Play that that YouTube video again. Play

it from where it is.

Pause it right there. Go back where it shows the Okay. It looks like those two shadows are pointing in towards each other. It does not look like they are

other. It does not look like they are going in the same direction as his shadow. It looks like they're pointing

shadow. It looks like they're pointing in towards him.

>> Well, the point is they're trying to mimic the picture that he just showed.

He showed the picture that I showed right before this. The big shadow in the middle is supposed to be the astronaut and the little white L bracket is supposed to be the rock. But the shadow

is not going all the way to the left at 9:00. The same as in the picture.

9:00. The same as in the picture.

>> But why using a wide angle?

>> Why are they converging? Why are the shadows from the from the bracket and that helmet or whatever it is, why are they converging in and his shadow >> not intersecting? If you follow the trajectory, >> it would absolutely intersect with his

shadow if you kept if you kept >> Well, again, it's a wide angle lens that makes the picture curve, not a 50 mm lens, which is completely different.

Look at my picture again.

Parallel shadows. That's how it should look. Okay, the one on the left's taken

look. Okay, the one on the left's taken with a 50mimeter lens. They don't

converge.

>> I understand what you're saying about the rock. It looks like It looks like

the rock. It looks like It looks like >> they intersect. Those shadows intersect in a few feet.

>> You're you're according to that wide angle lens, they would converge or come together at some point in the great distance.

>> Bart, that rock on the top right, the shadow is not projecting to the left.

The shadow is projecting behind it. But

the bottom, the base of the rock touching the ground is more narrow than the top of the rock. It gets wider as it goes out, which from our perspective

makes it look like the shadows going that way. When in fact, the shadow is

that way. When in fact, the shadow is just wider because the light is shooting that way. The light the shadow's

that way. The light the shadow's projecting that way, but the shadow is wider than the base of the rock, which makes it look like it's going that way, but it's not. It's like an optical

illusion. Well, that person has said

illusion. Well, that person has said there's no evidence that can ever be presented that will make him deny the authenticity of the moon missions. So,

let's look at >> You said the exact opposite.

>> No, no, I proved that I that I can change my mind because I went from being the greatest fan to the greatest skeptic. If you look at clip 27

skeptic. If you look at clip 27 where we're talking about the pictures, this is the smartest AI in the world >> that has a deep fake detector program

that has never been wrong. Not available

to the public. Clip 27. It can tell whether a video of Biden or Trump is a deep fake in 1 second. It's never been wrong. It can analyze pixels in the

wrong. It can analyze pixels in the foreground and see whether the background is fake. If the pixels line up, the smartest AI in the world just said all the Apollo pictures were fake.

>> Okay, I agree. I We'll look at that. But

can you concede that what we're looking at?

>> It's not a duplicate. It's not. I mean,

come on. Those are going completely different. The one on the left from

different. The one on the left from Apollo 17, they intersect in about 2 feet.

>> The one on the right, they would eventually come to a point somewhere down the path. And that's simply because it's shot with the wide-angle lens. The

one on the left of sunlight all the way to the left is not a wide angle lens.

And so you see they don't seem to converge in a point because they actually don't.

>> Right. But if you had a light source that was closer than the sun and smaller than the sun, that would not make the shadows intersect. Do you understand

shadows intersect. Do you understand that?

>> Well, Steve, last time I was here duplicated the Apollo 17 to electrical light.

because that's how it was taken with two electrical lights.

>> Do you understand that if you have and Steve tell me if I'm if I'm foolish if I'm wrong here. If you have two objects and one light source close to the objects versus compared to a light

source that's thousands of miles away, would the closer light source make the shadows go out or make it go in?

>> It would make them go out.

>> Out. Correct. So, it's not possible that it was a closer light source because a closer light source would not make the shadows converge. Bart,

shadows converge. Bart, >> well, I've been a I've won best cinematography and I say that the picture on the uh that they claim is on the moon was taken with an electrical

light and Steve who believes we went to the moon last time duplicated the shadows with two electrical lights.

That's how it was taken and that's how Steve duplicated it. Now, let's let's forget our opinion. I think the shadow argument the smartest in the world.

>> This is I think this is the worst piece of evidence because I think this is easily blown out of the water.

>> Well, I I disagree. Let's let's look at what the smartest AI in the world thinks >> about the shadows.

>> Well, about the pictures. He said every Apollo picture, the AI, I'm assuming it's a he said that they had fake backdrops. Play the clip D27

backdrops. Play the clip D27 >> where Putin was at this conference, this the AI conference of two years ago in Moscow. They were allowed to play with

Moscow. They were allowed to play with this, you know, AI that's not available to the public. 10 AIs scr together and it said the Apollo pictures were fake.

So, either Google's $1 billion 10-year investment produced a stupid AI or the pictures are fake.

>> Now, can we use the AI ourselves and ask it and get the answer?

>> That's not available to the public. It

was available at this conference.

>> How how how long ago was the conference?

>> Okay, let's watch the clip. Well, watch

clip 27.

>> Well, how how how long ago was the conference?

>> Two years ago.

>> Two years ago. So, 2023.

2023. Play it.

So there will be no bias. It's

surprising but it does believe so.

>> The neural network has analyzed a lot of data including light and dark contrast etc. [clears throat and cough] And then it believes the photo is synthetic >> and it compared >> very interesting.

>> It compared the photos to the Chinese landers that landed in 2018 and it was fed pictures of them of the lunar surface. It said they were real.

surface. It said they were real.

>> Okay. Where did you get this video?

>> Um I don't remember where it came from, but it I got it off the internet about 2 years ago. Look, I what you're saying is

years ago. Look, I what you're saying is compelling to me, but when you're bringing the hardcore evidence like this to prove something so incredible, I mean, you have to have a little bit more

than just a video with no source.

>> Well, actually, you got it inverted.

He's the one who claims on a on a on the moon where only people with top secret clearance are there, where there's no independent press coverage, and we have

to trust the federal government.

What happened on the moon? That's that's

the preposterous claim >> I understand [laughter] >> that needs to be made.

>> Correct. Yes, I would agree with you there as well. But what I want what I'm trying to say is in order for me to believe you. I can't just watch clips

believe you. I can't just watch clips that you don't have the source for and that we also can't corroborate ourselves.

>> It was Putin. You didn't recognize Putin.

>> It was Putin, but we don't know what he was looking at. We couldn't see the screen and we don't know. We have no access to it. This is you in your movie taking a clip and putting captions on it and saying that it was him looking at a

neural AI. I don't re I can't understand

neural AI. I don't re I can't understand Russian. I don't even know if that those

Russian. I don't even know if that those captions are real, right? So, like there has to be a little bit uh more source evidence to corroborate what you're saying right?

>> Well, I mean, come on. That video speaks for itself. Look at You're going to like

for itself. Look at You're going to like this. And this is pretty much the last

this. And this is pretty much the last clip except for one at the very end.

Clip 28 is Dan Rather describing, and you'll see the relevance, the Kennedy assassination.

>> Mhm.

>> They refused to show the Zbrater film.

They said, "Trust us. We'll describe it for you. So, you're going to hear Dan

for you. So, you're going to hear Dan Rather's description where he says the third and fatal shot, Kennedy's head goes violently forward. That way, Oswald

could do it because he was supposed to be behind him. And at the and at that exact moment, his head actually goes backwards, indicating the bullet traveling at 2,000 miles an hour, which

causes the force of the head to move, was actually in the front. My point is the most important event before the moon landing was the Kennedy assassination.

And we're going to show an example where the Evening News said the exact opposite of the truth. Go ahead and play it.

>> Yes. [clears throat]

>> In the next instant with this time Mrs. Kennedy apparently looking on, a second shot, the third total shot hit the president's head. He his head

seemed to move violently forward.

Violently forward.

Violently forward.

>> So Dan rather just >> make a note. Make a note to make sure we cut that out because we can't show that on the podcast.

>> Or you could possibly show it on the wide shot. If you show it on a screen,

wide shot. If you show it on a screen, so basically uh I I have it on my channel without a problem. They just moni monetize that

problem. They just moni monetize that segment or whatever. But

>> uh there you go. Dan Rather.

>> Yeah, we know we know the media and the government lies. said the exact opposite

government lies. said the exact opposite of the truth. So the point is if they're willing to kill their own president, they're not going to have a problem faking a video image on the moon where there's no nobody there and no reporters there.

>> I I am in 100% agreement with you on that.

>> Okay. Well, let's talk about I'm curious about the the the postflight press conference.

Um, it seems like in that first press conference after Apollo 11 with Neil

Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, they're they seem very cold. They seem in a their demeanor seems very grim. Not what I would imagine astronauts that just walked on the moon

for the first time in the history of the world. Um,

world. Um, what do you make of that, Charles? I I

don't know which one you're talking about, but they they brought >> first press conference. [clears throat]

>> Well, they land I don't know whether we're still in quarantine or not. Are

you talking about quarantine?

>> It was after the quarantine when they went in front of the in front of the media. Do you remember the date of that

media. Do you remember the date of that press conference?

>> I think it was in August, like August 23rd, 1969, something around there.

>> Yeah. Everybody is astonished. To me,

the window shot proves they didn't go to the moon. But other people are convinced

the moon. But other people are convinced by their expressions >> that they look like they're at their mother's funeral >> instead of the winning locker room of the Super Bowl cuz they're lying and don't want to lie. You also see they

have two teleprompterss kind of hidden in their desk to prompt them what it was like to walk on the moon for the first time, even though they're the only ones in the world who should know that. What

sort of like what sort of psychological is there is there any sort of psychological effect that you could use to describe why they why their demeanor

would be like this? Why they wouldn't be uh more elated or more exuberant to describe what they just went through?

Because a lot of people, this is one of the main reasons people who question the moon landing, this is one of the main pieces of evidence they use. They they

say that these guys look like they just got brainwashed or something or that they were just told to lie about something. Um but is there is there any

something. Um but is there is there any sort of like because people the astronauts have described um particularly this effect of coming back to earth from

outer space and seeing the the earth there's this this overview effect that happens where it it kind of like crosses some wires psychologically where when

you get back to earth it's almost like nothing will ever meet the level of intensity and excitement as walking on the moon. And maybe that could explain

some of the reasons why all the astronauts, their lives just went into a downward spiral when they got home. They

they became alcoholics. They divorced

their wives.

What do you make of that?

>> Uh I think it's has it's hard to say.

People had different reasons for leaving their wives and going into uh Buzz was sort of an alcoholic [clears throat] and uh when he left the

space program he was uh uh um he uh went into a I' I'd call it a downward spiral. He'd been at the top of

downward spiral. He'd been at the top of the the top of the list for importance. Mhm.

>> And uh then he got out then he went to uh ended up as a commander of the uh test pilot school as a colonel. Uh he

was still on active duty and then he was very upset I don't think I think because he never did make general until recently

uh he was made made general. Uh and uh I think the air

made general. Uh and uh I think the air force finally rewarded him for that. if

I'm saying this correctly. Anyway, at

some people had different remotions of, you know, my flight though. I was number >> 10 on the moon.

>> Oh, your phone's ringing.

>> Uhoh.

Sorry.

>> It's okay. my wife [laughter] uh uh I was uh really exuberant even

when we got back. It was just I was number 10 on the moon and it was it was the most incredible experience to >> see the moon and to drive the not drive

the rover but ride the rover and see picking up rocks and seeing the beauty of the moon. It was uh thrilling and uh exciting and we we wanted to we didn't

want to come back. We were having so much fun and uh they said get back in you guys. It's time to come home. But so

you guys. It's time to come home. But so

we got back inside.

>> Do you uh do you recall any similar feeling like what what was your your state like? What kind of were were you

state like? What kind of were were you in um a different state of mind when you got back to Earth for a while? Were

there were there any sort of lingering psychological effects that might may have affected you at all?

>> I think uh it was just excitement. Uh

you know, I've been I'm on the moon. I'm

on the moon.

>> No, I mean when you got back >> and when I got back I had the same feeling said I've been to the moon and it was a a thrilling experience. I love

to talk about it. I still do. Mhm.

>> Uh it was not life-changing, but it was a tremendous experience of uh of uh being selected. It was an honor uh to be

being selected. It was an honor uh to be a moonwalker and uh you know, we just uh threw ourselves

into it for two years. John and I trained uh for we were back up on 13 and uh then uh we helped them return and then after that we went prime crew and

it was two years later that we finally flew and uh so it was a long time to to get focused on that and I and this is

going to happen sooner or later >> and sooner or later you know two years later we uh landed on the moon and it was a exuberating

exhilarating experience and uh awesome u you know we didn't want to come back >> you know it was one of the look at that rock over there John look at over here

you know it was just excitement the whole time we were on the moon >> and uh yet it was uh uh

you had a job to do so you had to follow the flight plan if you will >> and uh and what finally You got outside and you not outside but you time to come back in. You didn't want to come back

back in. You didn't want to come back in. Oh, give me two more minutes, guys.

in. Oh, give me two more minutes, guys.

Or something like that. And uh but the mission control was very adamant. You

got this level of oxygen and water remaining. Get back inside. So, we got

remaining. Get back inside. So, we got back inside. So, the objectives and the

back inside. So, the objectives and the the the tasks that you guys had to accomplish when you were outside of the moon sort of overpowered the uh you

didn't really get any sort of like moment to reflect and internalize what was happening right then and there and to like sit back and just take in the

awe of being >> 240,000 miles away from >> We were too busy for that.

>> Too busy. Yeah. Mhm. Later on, you know, looking back at it now, it was a tremendous experience. And uh um

tremendous experience. And uh um we [clears throat] wanted to stay longer. We wanted another two hours on

longer. We wanted another two hours on the moon or whatever it was. And they

said, "Get back inside, guys. Time to

come home."

>> And uh we were late landing uh because of a problem with the command module.

Uh, and um >> why was it that Neil only ever did one he did two talks in his entire life about >> he was one of the shiest guys I've ever

met and he was never it was never look at me I'm the big Neil

Armstrong. He was shy and reserved and

Armstrong. He was shy and reserved and never really never took credit.

One of the last things he said about traveling to the moon was perhaps someday the children of the world will be able to remove one of truth's protective layers. The people I

protective layers. The people I interviewed about him said he was the opposite of Shai until he returned from the moon. His personality changed

the moon. His personality changed dramatically. He was the life of the

dramatically. He was the life of the party. He played the piano. He was the

party. He played the piano. He was the center of attention at all parties. And

>> before the before the moon mission >> and then afterwards something in him changed. He refused to give interviews

changed. He refused to give interviews unless the president asked him to. And

the last time one did Clinton, it's a clip in my movie at sabrel.com on the homepage. He says, "Perhaps someday to

homepage. He says, "Perhaps someday to the children touring the White House, you'll be able to remove one of Truth's protective layers."

protective layers." And that's what we're trying to do today.

>> Did you notice that at all? His

personality changing before and after?

>> Nothing.

>> He got shy. I think he did.

I always took it that he didn't want to uh want to take any credit for this. You

know, it was he happened to be first on the moon, but anybody could have been first on the moon basically.

And uh you know, he was just scheduled to be uh on Apollo 11 [clears throat] uh and uh so they that put him first on the moon.

>> Buzz Aldrin wanted to swap places with him. So Bur was the first on the moon

him. So Bur was the first on the moon and >> Oh, really?

>> Yeah. But he didn't do it. And u the hatch Neil was on the left side and the hatch was underneath the computer, the instrument panel in the center and the

hatch open towards the lunar module pilot. So the guy on that left side had

pilot. So the guy on that left side had to get out first.

>> That was it.

>> That was it. Just the way the hatch swung open.

>> Wow. [cough and clears throat] Yeah. You would just think being the

Yeah. You would just think being the first man to walk on the moon, you would you would almost be pushed more into the public spotlight, you know, because

>> he was sh he was shy.

>> He really was.

>> After he returned, he became shy, >> right?

>> After what?

>> After he returned, the people I interviewed said he was the opposite.

Very gregorious person.

>> Life of the party, people. He played the piano. Everyone surrounded him at all

piano. Everyone surrounded him at all parties.

I never remembered him like that.

>> No.

>> Did you spend a lot of time with him beforehand?

>> He was uh forgot what I was involved in Apollo 8 uh Apollo 9. No, not nine, eight, 10,

11. Okay. So, I those crews and then I

11. Okay. So, I those crews and then I was back up on 13 and then flew on 16.

Mhm.

>> So I was uh I got to know him and u and uh Buzz was a different

walk to a different drum. I thought Neil was very shy but very competent. He had

a tremendous background in test pilot uh experience uh when he was at Edwards Air Force Base and he was just really

sharp and uh but he was an all shucks kind of guy. Do you think it's possible [clears throat] that the federal government or NASA

would have in preparation to going to the moon in case something went wrong with like the cameras or the film or something like that or maybe even like a

catastrophic failure and you guys weren't able to make it? Do you think there's any possibility that they would have shot some sort of footage on Earth

to basically show the public to boost public confidence and to to prove to show the world that we did go to the moon? Even though we did go and we

moon? Even though we did go and we didn't have the actual evidence to show, maybe it might be better to have a backup plan as far as the footage goes because maybe the film wouldn't survive going through the radiation or there

would be some sort of problem with the cameras or something like that.

>> There was never never any discussion like that.

>> Mhm.

>> That that the astronaut office was part of.

>> It's my part of the astronaut office.

>> Sure. But like but do outside of your personal experience being an astronaut with the astronauts, obviously the astronauts weren't their number one objective was not media and documentation, but do you outside of

that do you think there's any shred of possibility that there would have been a backup plan as far as getting some footage on Earth?

>> No, we that never entered anybody's mind.

>> No, that I [clears throat] know of. I

was involved in Apollo 10 as support crew uh back up on Apollo 13 and flew on

16 and uh it was never any discussion of uh well let's fake this if the if the if you know whatever happened

>> we're going to fake the landing that discussion was never had.

>> Let me ask you a question about that.

Let's just say, use your great mind and imagination for a moment. If I'm right, let's just say in we're in a different world where the federal government did fake the moon landing for military

reasons or whatever. What do you think those reasons would have been?

>> I can't imagine doing that except for prestige. They to save face. Let me put

prestige. They to save face. Let me put it that way.

>> Because Kennedy said they'd go before the end of the decade.

>> Yeah.

And uh we made it >> with all the evidence that with all the stuff that Bart's presented to us today with the footage and and uh the

interviews of Von Braun and all all the other stuff. [sighs and gasps]

other stuff. [sighs and gasps] C can you put yourself in in somebody's shoes? Can you could you put yourself in

shoes? Can you could you put yourself in Bart's shoes or a dum dum like me? My

shoes who wasn't there. I'm not an astronaut. I have no experience flying

astronaut. I have no experience flying any type of aircraft.

Being presented with some of the stuff that Bart's showing and say, "Oh, there maybe this was maybe this was faked.

Maybe this was because it was done in the Cold War. The government was constantly lying during the Cold War, faking pretexts to get into wars, doing mind control experiments.

like, yeah, there might be a possibility that that this was faked. If you're not yourself, if you're if you're me or if you're Bart, [snorts] I mean, you can

believe anything you want. Uh if if you think it was faked, if you think it was faked, >> but you can show the evidence it wasn't faked.

>> Well, about that, there's an interesting scripture in Joshua. God told Israel not to make a peace treaty with any of the

nations surrounding Israel. And the one that neighbored them knew that. It says,

"When the inhabitants of Gimeon heard that Joshua what he had done to Jericho and Ai, they worked craftfully

and went and pretended to be ambassadors from a far away land. They took old sacks on their donkeys. the fake

evidence, fake moon rocks, old wine skins that were torn and mended, and old patched sandals on their feet.

>> They even brought bread that was deliberately moldy.

>> Yeah, that's smart.

>> Yeah. So, they provided fake evidence, didn't they? Nothing's new under the

didn't they? Nothing's new under the sun. Jesus also said that there are

sun. Jesus also said that there are people who claim to be Christians who are not. They come in sheep's clothing,

are not. They come in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are wolves.

>> Yeah. And so just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean that they're Jesus was said to have been sent to the lost people of Israel. So

everything he said was to the church at the time and to those people he said wide is the gate to the believers to the

church and wide is it to destruction and most believers don't make it. The way to life is narrow and only a few find it.

And I know that when I was baptized, I was baptized based on Acts chapter 2, which says, "Repent and be baptized." Right?

>> One of the people who was killed that was not shown was James Irwin. James

Irwin contacted the leading investigator, Bill Casing. He was before me, tracked him down. After Bill Casing went on Oprah and said, "The moon

landings are fake." James Irwin, Apollo 15 astronaut, contacted him and he said he had become a born-again Christian and they needed to talk about the book he

wrote about not going to the moon. He

said, "I'm concerned for my safety.

Please call me at this number 3 days from now." And on that day, James Irwin

from now." And on that day, James Irwin had a fatal heart attack. So to be truly converted, you have to confess your sin.

If you've been lying your whole life about the moon landing, you have to tell the truth about it. It says in in Titus about false Christians, they claim to be of God, but in deeds they don't show it.

>> I understand.

>> Yeah. So,

you know, that's that's you know the issue here really. It's a spiritual issue that mankind's greatest accomplishment is named after

Lucifer. It's interestingly it's in

Lucifer. It's interestingly it's in Revelation 9:11.

It says that one of the names for Lucifer in Greek is Apollo, the great liar. And what how ironic of a fallen

liar. And what how ironic of a fallen world that the most powerful nation on earth that claims to be the most righteous, that kills their presidents, fake wars, kill their soldiers, right?

Fakes moonlanding. The greatest

accomplishment of man is a lie. My film

starts out with the Tower of Babel.

Jesus said to start a tower and to not finish it. You're calling yourself a

finish it. You're calling yourself a fool. It was done to boast, to save

fool. It was done to boast, to save face. We will build it to show off is

face. We will build it to show off is what they say in Genesis 6. Never

finished. Then we show the Titanic with a headline that they put in print. The

ship that God himself could not sink.

And we know what happened there. And

then Richard Nixon, when you had the president of Japan and the president of Germany and France there at the launch site, President Nixon doesn't show up because he's afraid the lie will

unravel. He showed up for the next

unravel. He showed up for the next launch once they got away with it. And

he said, "Putting a man on the moon is second in greatness only to God making the universe." You see, faking the moon

the universe." You see, faking the moon landing is a blasphemous thing. And in

law, there's a law that says if you're in a bank robbery where a homicide is committed, even though it's by one of your partners, you can be a part of that. And people were murdered. We just

that. And people were murdered. We just

saw 15% of the Apollo astronauts were murdered. James Irwin was murdered. The

murdered. James Irwin was murdered. The

Apollo 1 crew was murdered. Cyrus Eugene

Acres said he murdered somebody. So,

you're part of that, too, in some way.

Had you come forward? How did how did how many% of the Apollo crews were murdered?

>> Well, they had they had quote fatal accidents all within a 24-month period.

15% of the Apollo crew and backup crews.

>> And so if you had a McDonald's, go through those u incidences.

>> Well, you could you could play the clip again or remind they showed they showed the pictures of the astronauts. Now, if

I was, you know, a owner of a McDonald's and 15% of my employees had fatal accidents within 24 months, I think the homicide police will be all over the

place. And then the leading critic,

place. And then the leading critic, Baron, he wrote a report to give to Congress about how they were a decade or more away from going to the moon instead

of two years. The report disappeared and he was found dead on a train crossing after he had received death threats.

That was an old CIA trick for getting rid of forensic evidence before they had DNA testing. They kill him, put him on

DNA testing. They kill him, put him on the train tracks, and it destroys all the evidence. So,

the evidence. So, >> not only did they fake the moon landing, the federal government is using our salaries, a third of them, to deceive us

and to pay the salaries of CIA agents who are killing our brothers and sisters who are trying to expose the moonlanding fraud.

>> So, all of the moon landings were faked.

>> You said 20 [laughter] when you walked in here, you remembered a conversation we had word for word 20 years ago. And you and you know that I'm

years ago. And you and you know that I'm the one who said we didn't go to the moon and yet you've said at least 10 times since we've been here. You're

surprised that that's what I'm saying.

When Danny made clear I didn't remember that conversation.

>> You quoted me word for word.

>> Well anyway I don't remember quoting you that that we did not land on the moon.

>> You said that I called you up and said I have irrefutable proof that we didn't go to the moon. Danny called you up and said, "You're going to debate somebody who thinks we didn't go to the moon."

And yet 10 times you've acted like you're surprised. You're just acting.

you're surprised. You're just acting.

And I'm sorry. There's no Nazi war criminal who ever turned themsel in.

They act like a benevolent grandfather when they're guilty. None of them have confessed. None of them came forward and

confessed. None of them came forward and they're still guilty. And you're the same way. Buzz Aldrin said accidentally

same way. Buzz Aldrin said accidentally one too many times he didn't go to the moon. He was asked a few years ago, why

moon. He was asked a few years ago, why have we not been back? He says, "Because we didn't go. And if we didn't go, we need to know why." And now that he's

tripping over his tongue, they bring you out instead. Since I did Joe Rogan, so

out instead. Since I did Joe Rogan, so many people are being converted to the truth. And you're here to put out fires

truth. And you're here to put out fires because if I climbed Mount Everest and some guy wanted to debate me, I would not waste my time. You're here to put

out all these fires of all these people saying it'll take multiple fuel trips to reach it to the moon. Mo multiple people saying the radiation belts are dangerous and the technology to go through them

hasn't been invented yet. The truth is coming out. What would happen if the

coming out. What would happen if the truth came out? It would be a big embarrassment for the United States government, an embarrassment for you and all of the other surviving Apollo

astronauts who have built the reputations, hired as CEOs of companies for a lie. And that's the way that it is. We live in a fallen world. And

is. We live in a fallen world. And

people are expect to believe you on face value because he claimed to be a Christian when Jesus himself said the majority of people who claim they're Christian are not saved. So if you were

truly converted, you would repent. But

you're not. So

>> repent of what?

>> Of your lie. Your lifelong lie >> of of going to the moon, >> obviously. So anyway, I have one last

>> obviously. So anyway, I have one last clip.

>> Wait a minute. Hold on. Wait a minute.

You're saying that nobody landed on the moon?

>> You know that you [laughter] I don't know why you're acting surprised. That's

what he said.

>> That's what he says.

>> Okay. So where did all the moon rocks come from? [laughter]

come from? [laughter] >> You've asked that four times. So we've

already covered that.

>> Okay. Bart, real quick. You said that 15% of the astronauts die within 24 months.

>> That's right.

>> Of Apollo 1.

>> Uh well, of prior to the Apollo program, prior to the first launch to the moon.

>> Oh, they died prior to the first launch.

>> Correct. People in my opinion who would not cooperate with the fraud like Gus Griom.

>> So how so how would we ask the internet?

We can say how many Apollo astronauts died from died period before Apollo 1.

That was research done by Fox News and the program conspiracy theory. Did we

land on the moon? You can only see it at sabrel.com. It's one of the clips

sabrel.com. It's one of the clips available within this says 24 months after. Steve, you would have to type in

after. Steve, you would have to type in uh how many of the Apollo era astronauts died in accidents?

>> Well, I'm I'm quoting Fox News.

>> I understand that, but I want I want All right. I want to corroborate it with

right. I want to corroborate it with chat. I want to ask how many Apollo

chat. I want to ask how many Apollo astronauts died in accidents?

before Apollo 1.

Three.

>> Yeah. Fox News says there's more than that. They're including the backup crews

that. They're including the backup crews as well.

>> Okay. Well, how how many Apollo astronauts and crew members or anybody involved in the Apollo program died before Apollo 1?

>> Again, that's Fox News. We have Betty Gryom. Scott Gryom is better than Fox

Gryom. Scott Gryom is better than Fox News. It should be able to pull up the

News. It should be able to pull up the evidence right?

>> Well, again, how does it know Lincoln was the 16th president? It was

programmed to say so. So, it's not completely reliable. What is reliable is

completely reliable. What is reliable is Betty Gryom and Scott Gryom, who told me he was Gus Gryom, their husband and father, was going to be the first man on the moon. He was a whistleblower at NASA

the moon. He was a whistleblower at NASA to such a degree that he got secret service protection up until the day of his death.

>> And they both say he was murdered by the CIA. So why is the CIA killing Apollo

CIA. So why is the CIA killing Apollo astronauts, right? Who are

astronauts, right? Who are whistleblowers at NASA? That's not my opinion. That's the opinion of the dead

opinion. That's the opinion of the dead man's relatives, >> right? And then we have Cyrus Eugene

>> right? And then we have Cyrus Eugene Acres who was there I witnessing the faking of the moon landing in 1968 who says he killed a coworker to cover it up.

>> Okay. So he was a security guy working at an air >> chief of security.

>> And you're including him in the 15%.

>> No, that I guess you'd have to add that to it. They're talking about Apollo

to it. They're talking about Apollo astronauts and backup crews.

>> Okay. Where where So, >> I'm sure they know how to count.

>> How can we find this Fox this Fox thing online?

>> It's on my website on sabrell.com.

>> How can we find it off of your website?

>> It's not available anymore.

>> It's not available anywhere outside your off your Okay.

>> Yeah. So, again, I think Fox News knows how to count and divi and divide on a computer. If they said it's 15%, I'm

computer. If they said it's 15%, I'm pretty sure it's 15%. Um, so, and I think you've said this before, if we did fake it, if we faked Apollo 11, why

wouldn't they just say, "Okay, we went to the moon.

Wash our hands of it." Why would we fake it five more times?

>> Because the government is greedy. My

first military source who told me the missions were fake said, "It's all about the money. $250 billion dollar in

the money. $250 billion dollar in today's dollars to go to the moon when they only achieved earth orbit. That

means they can keep about 75% of that tens of billions of dollars I guess.

What is uh you know 25% of 250 billion.

Uh that's what they spent and they kept 75% of it for who knows what to go into Cambodia. Congress said you can't use

Cambodia. Congress said you can't use funding to go into Cambodia. We know

they did. Where did that money come from? the Apollo program just like now

from? the Apollo program just like now they said you can't give technology to China but they're doing it anyway.

They're breaking their own laws according to someone who works in the command center of the Chinese space agency.

>> So if you believe in God, pray for the truth to come out. I pray for you. I

have no animosity toward you at all. Uh

I might have done the same thing under your circumstances. Um I regularly pray

your circumstances. Um I regularly pray for the astronauts and um I think it would be great if one of them came forward. The problem that the general is

forward. The problem that the general is facing is the there are more than one person alive associated with the Apollo program. If only one person claimed to

program. If only one person claimed to have walked on the moon solo, they probably would have told the truth by now. But if he confesses he's ruining

now. But if he confesses he's ruining the lives of other people.

>> Well, why would I dye that I walked on the moon?

>> For a number of reasons. because he

Kennedy made the boast and it couldn't be done and to save face plus it embezzled hund you know a couple hundred billion dollars and the federal government already proved their

arrogance that's why you know it just dawned on me that they went six times they faked it six times that's how arrogant the federal government is killed their own president according to

the dead man's relatives they faked the beginning of a war that killed 58,000 of their own people and they're ruthless Bart, what about the lunar reconnaissance orbiter that corroborated

the land the the landing sites?

>> Well, that's a NASA Lunar Recon. You're

asking the Fox to provide evidence that didn't steal the chicken.

>> Stephen, I sent you something about about the lunar reconnaissance order.

>> It was lunar recro is a University of Arizona as I understand it.

>> Right. I I was I was under the impression that it's has nothing to do with NASA, that it was corroborated by another agency out of Germany. Um,

>> is this it?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Right here.

>> Play this.

Another everyday shout out to everyday astronaut.

>> The Luna Reconnaissance Orbiter was launched in 2009 and began mapping the surface of the moon as close as 35 km from the surface. And guess what they found on the surface of the moon? That's

right, the Apollo lunar landing sites.

Well, actually, it's captured every humanmade object, including Soviet Lunicott rovers and crash sites and all sorts of incredible images. And these

images have so much detail. You can

clearly see the lunar lander descent stage. You can see footprints and rover

stage. You can see footprints and rover tracks. But what's really cool about

tracks. But what's really cool about these images from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter is you can compare these 21st century photos to video and images taken during liftoff from the moon of these missions. and you

can literally align them and confirm that they're identical. Let's take the liftoff of Apollo 16 for example. It has

great contrast and it's easy to see lots of detail as it ascends. Its pitchover

maneuver also shows the descent stage and some footprints as well. So, we can overlay an image shot from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter and compare them.

And look, they're identical. Nothing has

changed since there's no wind or atmosphere to disrupt the lunar soil. I

just absolutely love >> How did they do that?

>> Well, they faked the picture. Duh. I

mean, they already have a full body picture of Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin allegedly standing on the moon that was filmed in Canon Air Force Base. So, what

is it to fake a little a little shadow or whatever and claim >> it went to the moon? Most of these things, a pixel is 30 feet across. One

pixel is 30 feet across in these pictures. M.

pictures. M.

>> So, they have crystal clear pictures of a guy standing on the moon. Again, we're

asking for the fox to provide evidence it steal a chicken.

>> Sure.

>> What is the uh [clears throat] >> Charlie? Is there uh is there anything

>> Charlie? Is there uh is there anything else that you would like to say uh to people to my audience to Bart's audience that are on the fence about this and that think that you know some of Bart's

points could be compelling who aren't convinced we went to the moon. What is

your I think the evidence is overwhelming. We went to the moon.

overwhelming. We went to the moon.

There's 600 lb of moon rocks. Uh they're

totally different with the um radiation history and things like that. There's

pictures like LRO showing my rover showing the descent stage on the moon, the footprints. Uh there is uh uh

the footprints. Uh there is uh uh uh other other evidence such as that. Uh

you know, but there's a lot of things that uh prove that we went to the moon.

And uh I would uh to me the evidence is overwhelming that uh we really did go to the moon. We landed six times. And uh

the moon. We landed six times. And uh

the the f I think the photographs uh prove it all. And that uh if if you're going to fake something, do it once and

shut up. We kept going.

shut up. We kept going.

>> That's right. To make money from the taxpayers and the arrogance.

Nobody made any money. The NASA had a budget.

>> $250 billion is a lot of money. And if

you only do Earth orbit, keep a lot of that.

>> Well, the CIA has a big budget. So,

everybody you State Department has a big budget. And

budget. And >> according to scientific methodology, a a preposterous claim like cold fusion has to be independently duplicated. No

nation on Earth, including the United States, is able to repeat the moon landing. That's I mean, that's like

landing. That's I mean, that's like saying we did cold fusion, but for some reason, we can't do it 50 years later.

We destroyed the technology.

>> We did We did six landings.

>> Well, you claim to have made six landings. Yeah.

landings. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Money, money, money, >> right? One third of our labor.

>> right? One third of our labor.

>> Uhuh. I'm sorry. The rocks that we collected were different than the rocks that Neil Armstrong collected.

>> We should get those rocks in here and analyze them with an expert.

>> Get arrested by the FBI like that 75year-old woman.

>> Bart, is there anything that would possibly convince you that we did go to the moon?

>> Believe it.

>> I'm saying no, no, no. I know you did. I

know you used to believe it, but I'm saying is there any new evidence anyone could hypo use your imagination? Is

there any evidence that anyone could bring here to convince you that we did go and that your life's work has been futile?

>> Well, if you can put me on a rocket that they can't even build 50 years later.

>> So, even if he brought it to and send me a minute, we're building it. Artemis,

>> well, you postpone returning to the moon in >> 10 times. Presidents have said they're going to return to the moon in five years. 10 times.

years. 10 times.

>> I haven't heard that. And there and yet they can they can't do it since put me on a rocket that can go to the moon.

I'll pick the Apollo 11 landing site.

You know, there is a probe from an independent company that was going to land there and verify and NASA forbid it. So send me to the moon. Send me to

it. So send me to the moon. Send me to the Apollo 11 landing site. If I see the the lunar lander there, I'll publicly say we didn't go to the moon. I've

proved I've had an open mind. I went

from being the biggest fan worshiping a shrine in my house of Apollo 11 pictures to being open-minded and then gradually realizing they did indeed fake it. I

mean, a guy who builds rockets for NASA told me they faked it.

>> And so, I didn't want to believe it. I

found that footage of them faking being halfway to the moon and I had to admit it. They did fake it. That's why they

it. They did fake it. That's why they can only go 1,000th the distance today.

That's why they can't go through the radiation belt. That's why they need the

radiation belt. That's why they need the equivalent of 30 Saturn 5 rockets to have that fuel to leave Earth orbit.

>> It all falls into place. Oh, what we have is no independent press coverage.

The the word of two people who have top secret clearance and photographs that have already been clearly faked. We have

an eyewitness who saw them film it at Canon Air Force Base June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of 1968, even confessing to killing somebody to cover it up. So, if they're willing to fake a full body picture, a

little shadow of footprints or lunar module, I don't think they're going to have a problem with that. And to tell you the truth, looking at it as a professional cinematographer, it looks like that lunar module was pasted on

there. But that's just me.

there. But that's just me.

>> Well, I don't know where they sent everybody else, but sent me to the moon.

>> [laughter] >> I'll stand by that.

>> I love it, Charlie. Well, hey, man.

Thank you so much for doing this.

>> This has been uh a fascinating discussion. I learned a lot. Bart, thank

discussion. I learned a lot. Bart, thank

you for your time and uh for making this happen and um I'm really looking forward to seeing how the public takes this and they will decide what they want to believe. But thank you guys. This has

believe. But thank you guys. This has

been pleasure, >> very fun.

>> And uh bartyrell.com, people can find you there. Yeah, it'll

be in the link of the description of this video. You can get all the Well,

this video. You can get all the Well, you did last time. You That's what you said. That's what you told me you would.

said. That's what you told me you would.

And anyway, it has all the video clips there. They can look at them. I may

there. They can look at them. I may

upload separately all the clips that we've done here and just label them debate clip one through 30.

>> Okay.

>> Let people decide for themselves.

>> Okay. Charlie, is there any way uh people can get in touch with you if they want to? Uh

want to? Uh >> charlieduke.com.

>> charlieduke.com.

>> charluke.com. Okay. Fantastic.

sabril.com s i re l >> and charlieduke.com and sabreel.com both linked down below for folks. Thank you

guys again. That was very fun.

>> His pleasure. Thank you very much. Very

interesting discussion.

>> Very interesting. Good night everybody.