New look, same notepad | A conversation with Chris and Sam, Granola co-founders

Hi, we're Sam and Chris, the co-founders of Granola, and I'm going to be talking to Sam about our new brand.

>> Yeah, today's the day. We're finally

unveiling this thing. It's been it's been months in the works. Um, but we're really happy with it.

>> How do you actually feel about it?

>> Nervous.

>> No, I I'm I'm like uh I'm I feel very good about it now. I feel like at various stages of the process, I felt incredibly nervous and incredibly attached to this thing. But, um, we're in a very good place. Like I feel I feel really proud of what everyone's done.

Yeah.

>> Cool. So, you're gonna you're gonna walk us through it in a second. Um do you want to just tell a little bit about the history like what you know we Granola has been around a couple years now.

Where's our brand at at the moment and you know with the redesign?

>> Yeah. So I guess like as with any startup uh you always have a million things to do and um all of the all of the I think all of the visual brand that we have today has kind of just been done

in a rush at various moments in our history. Um

history. Um like the first landing page was uh I think we needed to hire our first engineer and to do that we needed like a website so that we looked like a legit

company. Um, and because we need a

company. Um, and because we need a website, we needed like, okay, what does the website look like? And that's that that's how we got to the original brand.

Um, >> you wrote the manifesto in a day, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Wrote this manifesto. Um,

yeah. I I basically I have the formula I've used in all side projects before is for brand is like pay for a type face so that you have something that someone else doesn't have and steal a color that

you like from somebody else. And that

was basically the at the beginning, found a nice font, stole the color from a brand we admire, um and uh and we put that on a website and and and yeah, that was it. I think

like I mean there were ideas behind it.

Like I think um we're both kind of nerds for like computing history and building tools that empower people and stuff. And

I I think the like retro futuristic optimistic bright energy was like a thing we wanted to get across. Was that

in the color or like what >> the color the like I don't know what you call it the like slightly retro sci-fi looking type face. Um

>> I guess we had those black and white photos on the original like >> Yeah. Like literally referencing all

>> Yeah. Like literally referencing all Yeah. All cool computer stuff. And then

Yeah. All cool computer stuff. And then

like the logo is just the font with a text cursor which is like the lowest hanging fruit of things to make it look like a logo that I could think of.

>> Yeah. I remember when you threw it together. You literally did it in two

together. You literally did it in two hours and and now people talk about the brand and I'm always like the thing that Sam did in two hours.

>> Maybe we should work on that.

>> Yeah. But I think I think I think uh I think I mean one of the things that motivate motivated us to do this was like I think people have really strong associations with the Granola brand. Uh

but I I think that's all the experience of using the product and maybe what they know about the company. I I I think the the actual visuals, the like logo, the

how we look is like is not contributing much to that honestly. Like I think I think >> if you were to show the Granola website to somebody that doesn't that hasn't experienced the product, >> they'd be like, "You guys just look like

any other SAS company out there. I don't

get it." A big part of I think why we're why we're doing this is to like try and try and find a way of showing up in the world that looks and feels much more like like the feelings people have when

they think of granola like when they use it.

>> The the brand up until now is something kind of threw together out of necessity to get it out. You borrowed the color from a from a company you like. You

chose a type face. Um why now? like it

seems like one of those hard questions where we could have spent time to redo the brand a year ago, maybe we could have waited five years like Yeah. How is

your thinking about now? Yeah, I think uh we feel the pain most acutely I think in like when we want to just do any design that's not product design like product design is designed it's supposed

to be super utilitarian and like um if you look at the Granola products like like before this it really didn't look like the brand but also that doesn't matter a ton you know like a product can get away with being very functional um

but like I don't know we we started thinking about like what if we were to do a billboard what should go on the billboard and how should that look? Uh,

or if we're going to do um if we're going to do ads or if we're going to do like, you know, sponsor an event and we want to put granola graphics everywhere, like how how do we do that in a way that

looks and feels like us and >> we just like >> I think before we basically had like this color and this type face um and nothing really else, which is just a it's a pain as a designer having like

when you don't have those tools at your disposal like it's just makes everything hard um and everything inconsistent.

You've definitely mentioned because we've we've talked about this probably every six months since we started working together. We're like, "Oh, is

working together. We're like, "Oh, is now the time to redo the brand?" And I think something on your mind was um like are we are we are we halfbaked or are we full like like do we know who we want to be when we grow up in terms of the

product and do like are we at a point where it makes sense because like a brand should last for a while, right?

Like like how do you think about that?

>> I think of it like five years probably.

that like minimum ideally the you know ideally way longer but like >> so we'll be pink in 5 years that's fine but like actually >> I love the pink in the new brand if we were going to be another color I think it would be that

>> okay so I'm I'm color blind just just so you know so I'm not allowed to have any opinions on on color I'm red green color blind specifically um okay cool so uh we

had this brand now's the time to do it um did you like were you excited were you nervous like was it How did you embark on this process and

had you done something like this before?

>> Uh I've like I've been on the other side I guess like um uh so we work with Ragged Edge, this agency we we love to work with for a long time. Um and I guess I've been on the other side of the

table being a designer doing brand design for another company but like never been the client, never been the other way around. Mhm.

>> Um uh so it was like equally equally exciting to work with like >> the the people that I look up to on this space. Um

space. Um >> uh and also terrifying because it's kind of like our it's our baby, right? And

like I I >> it's a kind of a terrifying thing to give it over to somebody who's going to give it a paint job. And

>> All right. Do you want to do you want to walk through the brand a little bit?

Because I think when I heard brand, I actually didn't, you know, I thought logo, I thought colors, but there's actually a lot to it. So, it'd be interesting to maybe talk through it.

>> Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean like I I think before even the visuals like I think um uh a lot of a lot of what was kind of hard and and

took the time about this process was figuring out like um how do we define what what's the what's the what's the idea that kind of summarizes where like who we are and who we want to be and

that we can live with for a while.

>> Yeah. Um because I think any good like visual or visual brand work or copyrightiting comes from having a really strong idea. It took a while honestly because like we we uh I think we just I don't know we never had to

think about it before like you know um >> in order to get there we we kind of went through this process of talking to uh a lot of the people who use Granola doing a lot of soulsearching oursel um trying

to like tease apart what are the like who who does granola speak to and like what what about granola speaks to them.

Um, and I think like we learned a bunch from that. I think like uh Granola I

from that. I think like uh Granola I think resonates most with people who sounds sounds kind of simple but like they really care about their work and about trying to like do something with

their time, you know, and like um uh granola is for people who really want to make progress towards a difficult thing.

Um it's a very simple tool uh and it's designed to kind of just like help you get through the day in the most productive way and the most kind of simple way. Um and yeah, the line we

simple way. Um and yeah, the line we kept coming back to was a progress over process. Like we I think granola is for

process. Like we I think granola is for people who value making progress over fussing over process or or um jumping corporate like hoops in the corporate system or something like that. I think

it took us a while, but when we got to that, that felt really good. Um, and

then we could kind of take that forward and figure out like how do you visualize that as an idea that that feels like us at the same time?

>> What was important to you going into this that the brand like so one is I guess it's you want the brand to speak to those people, right? Is there

anything else that was important to you for the brand to do or or important for it not to do? I think a thing we've really learned like I think we wanted this from the beginning and it's kind of come out in in the way people talk about

granola is like people have a surprisingly personal relationship with granola. It's like um kind of like your

granola. It's like um kind of like your notebook, you know, it feels like a personal tool that's yours. Um, it's

definitely not your companies, you know, and and so much like so much software we use at work feels like it's kind of uh put put upon you by by the powers that

be in the company and it feels like shiny and corporate and like like a shopping mall, like the digital equivalent of a shopping mall or a sterile office

>> and really not human or not not like yours. Um, and I think I just I want

yours. Um, and I think I just I want Granola to feel the opposite of that. I

wanted to feel like it's a it's a thing that you have open on your screen for so much of the day. It should feel comfortable and like like a place you want to spend time in. Um and if it was an office you would want to take your shoes off in, you know.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I think we we really wanted to lean into this idea that Granola was it should feel personal and it should not feel sterile or corporate. Um, you know, we've tried to work to find ways of getting that across in the visuals

through like like the the type faces that we use, the the way the logo looks and feels, the colors we have. Um, the

the kind of imagery and the slight like the the the fact that the images aren't perfect, the illustrations are kind of rough. Um, that's all kind of trying to

rough. Um, that's all kind of trying to speak to this idea that granola is it's it's for you, you know, and and it wants to be a representation of your work life, which is like probably chaotic a

lot of the time, but like that's the reality of how you get done in the world.

>> So, the a brand needs to work for for today and where the product is today and also where where we're headed, right?

And we talk a lot about how um in the age of AI, we think that software is going to become more and more personal and more bespoke. And um like I got all

these messages when we launched uh Granola Crunched, which is like the Spotify rap version of Granola, uh where people really talking about how Granola really understands them. Um like I think

that feeling of it granola feeling like it's mine and my space I think that will the need for that uh will only increase.

Um as granola becomes more more bespoke.

It kind of understands your context, understands you more and more. Um do you have do you have any thoughts on on that?

>> Yeah, totally. I feel like I like AI works so much better when it understands you and like ex like what's going on in your work life, you know, and and like um granola is most powerful when it like

sees, >> you know, it's like it's like with you in all of your meetings and so you can kind of chat with it and over time you'll be able to do stuff with that that kind of context from your meetings.

Granola will will I will be, you know, we're working to make Granola way more kind of integrated with the wider context of what's happening in your company, but that's all kind of in service of making it an incredibly

powerful tool for you as an individual.

You know, like I think if we don't have the context of what's happening in your sales team or uh in your your company standups, then we're not going to do a good job at like helping you get the

that you want to get done done.

>> Yeah. I I know how much uh you pour yourself into into granola. Um

yeah, I'm just curious about like what are you worried about? What was hard?

What are you nervous about? Um,

>> the biggest fear for me with all of this is like um the old identity I guess was like thrown together

by me uh in a kind of haphazard way.

>> Yeah, >> it's pretty generic. It's pretty like like pulling off the shelf. Um, I

guess you could argue there's some authenticity in that. it's not super contrived, you know, and effectively here we are trying to contrive a look a little bit, you know, um or make a thing that is a bit more bulletproof and is

going to last us longer and feel good for a long time. And there's just like an inherent tension there where like you you know we're trying to like come up with a system for how we show up in the world. But in coming up with a system,

world. But in coming up with a system, you risk um losing the space to be authentic and and you you know we we like we could become like a Proctor and

Gamble brand or something, you know, that feels like super corporate unrelatable faceless faceless company, you know. Um, I guess I'm kind of

you know. Um, I guess I'm kind of prepared for the for what we have to adapt and change and like and and for us to try pretty out there stuff that doesn't feel like that doesn't fit the

system and that's that's cool. That's

fine. Like uh uh yeah, we should we should have fun with this and then I think that like a that that will come across well in everything we do.

>> So I think when you talk about the original brand, there was almost almost no thought that went in there. So it's

almost like the first things you could throw together. Yeah. Now thought is

throw together. Yeah. Now thought is going in there and uh as you think about it it's it was just surprising to me how much of the brand was a lot of like you

or us or your values and that's a very um uncomfortable feeling >> right because like the lot of the brand

should perhaps be come come back to like what granola is about and why it was started and what it's trying to do in the world and how how it's trying to show up in the world like how I don't know How did that mess with your head?

Like, how did you think about that?

>> I had a very helpful, calming chat with Jack on a team.

>> I remember early on in the process about it.

>> He's good like that.

>> He's good like that.

>> Um, I was stressing out about the fact that I I feel I have all of these reactions which is just like my personal taste about like how I think things should be and like who am I to have these opinions

and like to to kind of like dictate that this is how the thing should look. Um,

and I think Jack and others have helped have helped me kind of be at peace a bit more with like the idea that Granola kind of came from us at the beginning and and

like we've kind of built a company and a culture and like and an experience out of that. But like whether we like it or

of that. But like whether we like it or not, so much of our there's so much of our DNA in it that like >> if you don't like listen to that, then it's just not going to feel authentic to

us. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I just get way

us. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I just get way more comfortable with like I don't know, listening to the kind of reactions I have in my gut.

>> Well, it's kind of like the brand could be many things, but if it's not authentic or if it's not real >> and and that's good and bad, right?

Because we're we're real and we're we have lots of rough edges. I think that's the thing we can't >> we can't afford to to lose.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Cool. Uh, should we walk through it? Do

you want to show the new brand?

>> Yeah. Um, so I mean our old I I guess like like before I talk about the new stuff like our old one was um again thrown together in like a few days before we launched the product. Every

other SAS company has the gradient background thingy. Okay, cool. We'll

background thingy. Okay, cool. We'll

have that.

>> We were like three people at the time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Three people doing in a hurry before we launched. Um we focused all our time on building the app, right?

And like everything else was kind of, >> you know, done in a done in tiny sprints around the edges. Like if I fast forward to today. Um

to today. Um >> so this is the new stuff.

>> This is the new stuff. Um

>> this was actually one of the first visuals that we like or like this visual's been in the in the process for a while. First off, we're green. We're

a while. First off, we're green. We're

still green. It was a contentious thing for a while. We went down the path of exploring others, but I think like granola is green and and always should be.

>> Um >> type faces that you use in the products actually end up being a lot of the brand that people experience dayto-day. So, we

needed something that was both like very uh not too flavorful, you know, you don't want to like put like get in the way of people doing their work, but at the same time like imbued a bit of the character

that we want in the brand. Um, so we have this like very workhorse, very standard uh, sand serif and the the the slab is like I think really nice for

like bigger moments and uh has this like it does this nice like tight rope dancer of being like kind of uh analog feeling a little bit but um still kind of refined.

>> Fonts are a big part of the >> of the of the experience. Yeah. Yeah.

like the imagery like uh I think again we have this tension of like we want to be like this very personal individual feeling tool that can feel like uh it represents the kind of mess and the

chaos of your work life but also we you know we we're like a tool that you trust with a lot of important stuff. uh we are tool that

important stuff. uh we are tool that companies will trust with a lot of important stuff and so like being able to show up in a much more restrained sophisticated uh put together way is like also important in a lot of

circumstances.

>> Um so I think yeah the the the tie face does a lot of heavy lifting in like in helping us do that. What I love is we also like have ways of being way more expressive with it. And this was like a big thing we were missing before is um

when you want to have fun with the brand or like uh like you know use illustration or kind of more out there images to to to create a feeling. Um we have this great

system for doing that now which we which we didn't have before. Um we've finally got to do like a pass at the visual design and the fit and finish of the app in a holistic way that we just haven't

done before. Um, we've always kind of

done before. Um, we've always kind of been focused on building the next thing and the next thing. Uh, and this was like a a moment for for us to kind of take a step back and like kind of

reevaluate, you know, just like the the I don't know, stupid stuff like like where should we draw the lines around the elements in the app and like how should it feel to use? Um, and the app just feels like so much more polished

and uh and and kind of put together than it did a month ago.

>> Yeah. Been the last few weeks where we've been living with it, it just feels it feels so much better. Yeah.

>> And then the logo. Um,

what do you think about the logo?

>> Ah, I think logos are tough, right? Like I I like it. Isn't this this

right? Like I I like it. Isn't this this thing where it's like whenever a company changes a logo, everybody kind of hates it because you you're so familiar and invested in what the old logo was. Uh,

that just the change is uncomfortable.

Um, and obviously granola is very dear to me, so it's like it's something very dear to me that's changing. Um, I like it. I think it's I think it's it's uh

it. I think it's I think it's it's uh it just feels it feels kind of human. It

feels kind of fun. It feels kind of calming. Um, and uh and it's also

calming. Um, and uh and it's also something important to me. Like it works well with small sizes and large sizes, which I think is really important because sometimes you get an app icon

and you can't see it. So, um yeah, I like it. I think I think it uh it'll I'm

like it. I think I think it uh it'll I'm sure when we announce it people will will complain about it and then I think but it's the kind of thing where I think five years from now we'll look back and hopefully um you know can't imagine it

was anything different.

>> Yeah. I look back at the old one now and I'm like I uh ugly >> it feels feels ugly and like so generic and boring. So I I feel like we've uh

and boring. So I I feel like we've uh >> I've come to really like it. Yeah. Like

I think um >> it's a bit like naming your kid. You

know what I mean? It's like it's like a hard decision. It's kind of a oneway

hard decision. It's kind of a oneway door >> and and like it's it's a you're asking a lot of like a really simple shape, you know, and and uh >> um >> I think really all we can all we can hope for is like we we get across this

feeling uh that that feels like it's us.

And um and I think it does that really nicely. So, uh yeah, I'm super happy

nicely. So, uh yeah, I'm super happy with it and I think it it looks it looks different to to any anything else out there, any other type of use. I've like

remember that time I I walked up your like walked up to you and your screen was literally just like 60 swirls where you like in slept for two days.

>> Um >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Thanks for talking through this and hopefully you'll be able to get more sleep now that you're not staying up late late at night drawing swirls all the time. Yeah. Go to Cassie Granella

the time. Yeah. Go to Cassie Granella and decompress.

Yeah. Cheers.