Newly named major projects have 'high likelihood' of approval: minister | Power & Politics

We begin with the seven new projects selected for fasttracking by the federal government today.

Three of those projects are focused on critical mineral extraction.

One is for liqufied natural gas.

There's also a hydro project, a transmission line, and a critical conservation corridor.

For more on this announcement, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources Tim Hodgson joins me now.

Minister, welcome back to the show. It's good to see you sir.

Here >> we, now, have, uh, 12, projects, in, total referred to the major projects office many of them already at advanced stages of development.

So so what does this tangibly change for these projects?

>> So, yeah, the, last, time, I, was, uh, here, with you we we talked about it's important to punch the ball uh into the end zone.

Um what we're doing is uh getting a number of projects uh that are important to Canada that are important to our success.

Uh and we're getting they're they're getting down towards the 20 yard line and we're focusing on getting them across uh the end zone. So when we talked, you know, I'm up in Timonss today uh at Crawford Nickel, an amazing an amazing project uh second largest nickel deposit in the world. uh one of the lowest cost nickel operations.

Uh when it's up and running, it's going to use technology that'll it'll be a net zero footprint uh nickel mine, actually a negative uh uh net zero mine because of some of the sequestration uh around their tailings management.

>> Um, getting, these, across, the, line, is incredibly important.

So what we're we're doing is working with them to make sure all of the permitting uh is done not in sequence but in parallel so we can get get it done as quickly as possible.

Uh working with provinces uh where we we need to do that. So in this case with uh with Ontario and then uh working closely with the company to ensure it has the best possible financing uh packages to attract the right uh the right capital, the right capital from the private sector, the right capital from our allies uh to get projects like this built. Uh that that's what it does.

>> So, when, do, we, start, to, see, the, tangible results of this? because um I appreciate that mega projects they they take some time and the goal is to speed that up but there is what you mean when you talk about moving fast and what public expectations are when people talk about moving fast I mean when do we tangibly see the projects say that were referred in September actually get a designation as a project of national interest like what's the timeline on that sort of a process >> so, uh, the, forand, mine, has, said, with, with its referral to the MO they believe they can uh they can be up operating in 2026.

Uh uh LNG Canada 2 with the referral to the MO has said they expect uh to make an FID uh final investment decision uh in the spring uh of 2026.

Um just thinking about the red Chris mind uh another fantastic uh opportunity uh with the support we're providing in coordination with the Talatan nation who are partners uh in that we expect uh that mine to be uh executing on its major expansion phase uh in 2027.

Uh Darlington uh is a situation where uh the project's already under construction.

The challenge is it wasn't fully financed in an optimal way.

Uh working with uh the MO, we've already uh executed on improvement in the financing which will make uh the project more affordable and manage the first of a kind risk.

Uh that project will um be the first SMR uh uh in a western country.

it will solidify supply chains and create opportunities, export opportunities for Canada.

These things are all starting to happen uh in a very positive way.

And >> there's, some, reporting, in, the, Toronto Star, today,, Minister., I, I I, don't, know if you've seen it, but there's some documents that they've obtained where they talk about skepticism and if not reluctance by by some of the projects to participate uh in this process.

That a document talks about the Contraour Terminal for example, saying that the proponent had hoped uh to move forward more quickly than than the major projects office designation would allow.

And they feared that if there's legal challenges to C5, for example, that projects could move slower because it could get caught up in that.

Uh, how real do you see that risk?

What assurances do you have that that won't happen to anyone who gets uh referred to the MO?

>> I've, yet, to, hear, a, single, uh, entity that's been referred to the MO think it was not a good thing. So, if you've if you've heard something from uh somebody at the Port of Montreal, I'd be interested in hearing that because I certainly haven't heard that.

>> Okay., Well,, it's, a, briefing, note, uh that that the Toronto Star obtained that they're quoting from, but you're you're not aware of of this concern being raised uh about u potential complications.

>> I, think, any, any, anybody, who, has, been referred, I think, has found it incredibly valuable so far.

>> Okay., I, want, to, ask, about, one, of, the projects uh referred today and this is well the suite of projects, the Solisms uh LNG.

There's a there's the floating um natural gas liqufied natural gas facility, the pipeline and and of course the um the electricity hookup that that's going to be needed to make it happen.

Um more than half of nearly half of the First Nations consulted on this project didn't consent to it and two nations are taking this particular project to court. They're trying to overturn the approvals. Why designate a a project or a series of projects that's dealing with that kind of legal uncertainty at this point?

>> So,, what, we've, said, is, we're, going, to help uh projects where there's significant uh interest uh to see if we can help make them happen. In this case this project's actually led by the Nisca Nation.

>> Uh, I've, spent, quite, a, bit, of, time, with Chief Eva Clayton. uh they are incredibly excited about what this will do uh for uh their uh their nation.

Uh it is part of the Northwest Critical uh uh mineral and conservation corridor.

that region uh has the potential uh through the the uh the the transmission line through the electrification of this LNG through uh the creation of roads uh and transmission lines potentially unlocking as many as 20 different new critical mineral mines in that to have a you know many hundreds of billions of dollar knock-on uh opportunity.

uh this is something it's worth figuring out.

It's something where the the MO can help and you know Don Ferrell was a uh a master uh at that in her previous life and and uh finding ways to make things uh work well um with First Nations.

So I'm I'm quite optimistic that uh with this referral uh we can uh help uh indigenous people find a way to participate in uh projects that are led by First Nations uh for the benefit of First Nations.

But there are still these legal challenges and I and I know C5 obviously gives you the ability if a project is designated as a project of national interest to to you know cut through some federal laws and federal regulations but it can't overturn title treaty and sort of uh challenges there.

So I mean is there still a risk with this particular project from those legal uh challenges or are you comfortable that that this can be resolved through the courts?

So, you know, as we've we've talked about, when you when you I'll go back to my football analogy. When you're in your when you're in the red zone, you're in the other team's uh uh 20 yard line or closer, uh you don't want to fumble the ball.

You don't want to throw an interception.

Uh if you end up trying to kick a field goal, you don't want to miss the field goal. Um uh this is a great project.

It's a project that it would be uh a net benefit to Canada if it were to proceed. And uh we're committed along with the British Columbia government who's very supportive of this uh project uh along with the Nisca Nation and another of their other uh indigenous partners.

Uh we're committed to trying to see if there's a way to make this work.

And uh can you guarantee something is going to going to work? Uh no. But uh when you got when you got the ball on the opponent's 5 to 10 yard line, you want to try and punch it into the end zone.

And, that's, what, we're, going to, try, and do.

>> Okay., Look,, I, I I, I, I, take, the, football analogy from a political point of view but uh I don't know if you I wouldn't argue that in court if you get called in to deal with this particular one Minister, because obviously I I don't think, the, judges, are, going to, buy, it.

But, you know, on your point that you can't, guarantee, this, and, I I, this, is, an important point I think here because I think the impression people might get when you make these announcements, the prime minister makes these announcements and it goes to the major projects office, people assume it's a done deal.

Um but that's not necessarily the case because the financing may not work at the end of the day, right?

The economics may not work at the end of the day or or these other outstanding issues might not get resolved.

I mean how I mean what what is success in terms of the share of projects referred to the major projects office going ahead? Is it 100% is it 50% like what what is your metric for this is working well because not everything can can go as hoped.

goal is for as many of these as possible to to punch the ball into the hand.

So u uh if we if we designate it, you know as we've one of the five criteria is a high likelihood of a success, uh high likelihood.

Uh so, you know, I I won't translate that into a percentage, but it's a a high probability that when they get uh referred to the MO uh and designated, they will go on to get built.

That's uh that's the objective.

Um you and I have both been around long enough to know uh there's no uh sure things in the world. Uh I I lived through the great financial crisis.

I lived through the internet bubble in 2001.

I lived through uh the uh the the yen uh traumas in in 1994.

Markets can change and things might not get financed.

Uh but in a normal market the expectation is uh these are going to get done.

>> The, the, criticism, you've, heard, it, from the opposition this is more bureaucracy and more cost. Uh there was a direct uh financial well exposure in in the loan today from the Canada Infrastructure Bank um on the uh the transmission line that they're building in northern BC.

Be beyond the loan I I mean what kind of financial contributions is the government considering here? Uh is it is it strictly would you look at equity stakes?

Would you look at subsidies on any number of these projects? How far do you think you'd go on direct exposure for taxpayers?

>> Well,, let, let's, focus, on, the, objective here.

What the prime minister has said is uh the the MO, the purpose of the MO is to get projects uh built and to attract uh in the next uh five years over $500 billion of private sector investment uh into uh the Canadian economy.

So $500 billion dollar of uh new investment to create jobs to create uh sustainable industries to create cards in our geopolitical uh world.

Uh the first trunch of projects uh if they move ahead are almost $60 billion in investment.

Uh the second set of projects uh is uh would enable $55 billion of projects.

So we're uh well on our way.

We've got obviously more to do.

Um sometimes uh there will be uh incentives uh to get private sector money uh to invest.

So, for example, we have clean investment tax credits. So if somebody is uh producing a green energy uh project or they're producing in the case of LNG LG that's in a top decile in the world from a carbon footprint standpoint uh we have investment tax credits.

Uh what we're always trying to do is get the maximum amount of private sector money for any dollar invested in the uh from the public sector. Our goal is to make sure uh taxpayers see us uh using things like uh the Canada Infrastructure Bank, the Canada Growth Fund, Export Development Corporation, Business Development Corporation, the Indigenous Loan Guarantee Program, things like this right?

>> Things, like, the, $2, billion, critical mineral program that we announced in the budget, things like the billion half dollar uh first and last mile infrastructure fund.

We need to use those in a way that track that attract many multiples of uh of private sector capital.

>> Okay,, Minister,, I've, gone, over, time,, but I have to ask one last question.

Since this new list of projects was officially announced, it's been statement after statement after statement from environmental groups criticizing this government for for getting behind fossil fuel industry uh projects. I know some of these will be net zero uh at production but for an example the solisums LG facility it's going to create LNG for Japan and South Korea that would be burned to create electricity so there's an emissions there I mean what do you say to these groups that are critical of of the economic agenda you're pursuing at the they say at the expense of a climate agenda >> what, I, say, to, them, is, for, example, the silosums project will produce LG within 90% 90% lower carbon footprint than the average LG produced in the world.

Uh and our allies are screaming for our LG.

Our allies have said uh they do not want to be beholden to Vladimir Putin for their LG.

That was a bad decision.

They don't be they won't don't want to be beholden to other countries that will use uh their energy insecurity against them.

and they see Canada as the most responsible producer of LG in the world and our allies are asking for it.

uh when we have an opportunity to do that in the most responsible way uh and that generates good paying Canadian jobs uh and that pays for things like $10 a day daycare and pharmarmacare and our health care and our access to lowcost postsecary education.

Uh that's something that I think Canadians want us to take a hard look at and uh I think most Canadians are supportive of that.

Tim Hudson, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources.

We appreciate the time.

Thank you, sir.

>> You, what, does, the, power, panel, think, of all, of, this?, We're, going to, bring, them in right now. Shachi Kurl is the president of the Angus Reed Institute.

Andrew Thompson is a former Saskatchewan NDP cabinet minister. And here with me in the studio, Michelle Cadario was deputy chief of staff to former prime minister Paul Martin. And Tim Powers is a former strategist for Conservative parties.

Uh good to see you all.

Uh gang, Andrew, uh let's start with you.

What are your thoughts on what we saw today in terms of more extraction and fossil fuel projects? Um, and a little bit of clarity on how it's all going to move through the system from Don Ferrell.

What's your uh initial take of what we saw today?

>> Yeah,, well,, it's, starting, to, take, shape a little bit more. I think that they are not only putting down some markers, but clearly some touchston also in terms of how they're looking at this fitting into an overall set of portfolios.

I think there's a little bit of a risk here for the prime minister though on two things.

One is that there's still no projects actually uh in production and they've got to start to lay out some kind of timelines and markers on that.

>> And, the, second, is, that, these, are, in pretty remote locations.

>> This, will, be, different, than, laying, down a bunch of pavement that people are going to see or doing urban construction projects or new transit that people are going to experience. And so being able to convey that politically as to how this is driving forward the economy uh gets a little tougher when it's actually you know obviously critical infrastructure uh and likely fairly good projects but a little bit removed from where uh where voters are.

>> Uh, Michelle,, what, are, your, thoughts, on this?

I mean are we starting to see the the full picture taking shape or there's still some coloring that needs to be done here?

>> Well,, there's, there's, a, whole, lot, of coloring that still has to be done, but I think that you know it is actually starting um to take some shape.

You talk about that yes they are in remote places but I think about the LG project that we first brought in in uh and there's money being spent now to even develop these projects even before FID >> and, that, money, involves, you, know, it's workers it's it's it's smallcale construction and that also means that there's supply lines and supply chains for smaller businesses certainly in the lower mainland they all benefited or a bunch of them benefited from you know the first LG project and so I think you're going to see that I think you're also starting to see a little bit more of the strategy. Like what was really interesting to me is the transmission line, right?

Because that's not just a project in itself. That's an opening up of a corridor that can actually facilitate a whole bunch of other projects.

And it's a sign to investors around the world or to others who want to come in and and do other projects that, hey,, you, know what,, the, support structure is going to be in place so that you don't have to fight for that to happen because getting a transmission line up to uh northern northwestern BC is uh is quite the project. It's not a private sector investment, right?

It's going through the Rockies.

It's going all over the place.

>> You, need, to, have, that, the, federal government, involved.

, And, so, I, think that this is showing the world, yep, we're we're buying in >> right?

, FID, final, investment, decision just for people at home. Uh Shachi, um signal to the business community, to investors maybe.

Uh how do you think the public views this because right now it's a lot of process and a list uh of things that were in various stages of development.

And I guess uh people haven't felt it all yet.

>> Well,, so, let's, put, aside, the, the delivery aspect of this for a minute and just talk about the what um you know when it comes to developing LNG projects uh mining critical resource extraction uh with the exception of oil and gas which again not announced here today.

uh the ones that have been announced hydro, mining, LNG, fairly, I would say on the lower end of the hanging fruit spectrum in terms of running into resistance.

People are generally okay with that kind of resource development.

And so that combined with uh and I know this from polling that we haven't released yet that the fact that there is a a general consensus again on government being involved in this level of government being involved in critical resource extraction if it is to be extracted rather than sending all of that right out to the private sector or to foreign companies, foreignowned companies.

uh all says that you know for the most part I think people are going to on the basis of the projects announced today go yeah I guess that sounds okay uh but when we asked in September about that first trunch of uh projects that were announced the level of satisfaction with the specific projects announced only amounted to about 44% and when you asked you know why why aren't you satisfied you know the the the number one issue was there wasn't a pipeline announced. So I don't know if this satisfies that group enough or or if that lingering dissatisfaction is going to be there because again we haven't heard about a pipeline.

I want to say one more thing and and I was struck by Andrew's thoughtful comment about hey these are these are remote communities where this work is going to be done.

People won't see it therefore they may not embrace it. The flip side to that, the other side of that coin is uh it's not Burnaby, British Columbia where you can uh marshall hundreds of protesters as as was done with the completion of the Trans Mountain pipeline.

Much harder to get protesters to remote places, which which could save some headaches and and some aspirin for Don Ferrell and the prime minister.

>> Right., though, there, have, been, a, lot, of statements criticizing the economic agenda here from from climate uh and other groups u frustrated with what they're seeing here. Tim, what what are your thoughts on what we saw today?

>> Well,, I, think, Andrew, was, channeling, Doug Ford.

He wanted the tunnel under the 401.

Everybody see that and live in the gridlock that would come with all of that.

So, thankfully that is not on the list today.

Um, a couple of things.

I think look, um, as somebody who's been bemoning nastiness and bad behavior all week, I think it's a good start.

uh in line with the other set of announcements.

What's fascinating for me though is what kind of political and operational predicament this or opportunity it creates for the government.

I'm thinking of the remarks uh in Candace Lang's op-ed today.

Candace, of course, the head of the Chamber of Commerce, Steven Leche, the uh energy minister in Ontario, also making the point that great, we have this, but shouldn't this whole one project, one review become part and parcel of the way the federal government in its entirety takes on these uh types of projects because to all of the proponents, as Michelle would well know they are major projects. They vary in degree and size. I think that's a fair criticism.

Um, and it also begs the question, all right, this is a good start, but there clearly are things in the system that required this to come to the four.

It wasn't just Justin Trudeau's particular outlook on economic development.

There are legislative impediments.

The conservatives are always talking about Bill C69.

Um, I appreciate Prime Minister Carney has politics in his own caucus around environmental uh advocates and others but is do we now need to drive down a little further to make Don Frell's job easier, the project office easier by dealing with some of this legislation that maybe is adding a year or two even with the extraordinary powers the prime minister created through C5.

>> But, listen, on, the, one, project, one, review and I take uh premier Ford's point there that this is sort of the end goal.

the Salisum's LG project which is on the list today that was approved under a one project one review that the federal government accepted the BC government's review because it was of a sufficient standard.

This is the thing that needs to get sorted out. They need to harmonize >> and, that's, the, point, about, maybe Ontario's review is not where the feds want it to be. Right.

>> Uh, fair, enough., But, the, the, federal government has a series of legislative oversight 69 the Fisheries Act, the Oceans Act, all of these things.

I appreciate Mark Carney can't fix that in a day, nor could any prime minister, but while Don Ferrell does what she's doing I hope there's a legion of civil servants who are looking at all of these pieces of legislation for when the moment of urgency passes and instead of it just being about catalytic moment is about actualizing all of the opportunity that that's out there. And I think the business community most certainly wants to see that. I think it's totally on the table that if you know Doug Ford and and Prime Minister Carney can kind of come up with a one project room review they're going to do that, right?

They want to have a cooperative agreement is my understand.

It's just I I think they've got to figure out the fine print and things because you don't want it to be a race to the bottom sort of thing. But yes, I I I want to play a clip here.

This is from Conservative leader Pier Polyv uh who weighed in today and saying that the major projects announcement essentially it isn't going to get anything done.

Just have a listen to this.

We'll get reaction.

>> The, problem, too much bureaucracy.

Mark Carney's solution, add another bureaucracy.

He's created yet another bureaucracy, a new bureaucratic hurdle for miners and oil and gas enterprises and other resource companies to jump through in order to get anything approved. And yet again today, instead of getting things done Mark Carney was standing up doing photo ops, announcing that he's going to approve a bunch of projects that were already going to happen.

Okay, Andrew, your thoughts on that?

Because uh that's been the persistent criticism of this and yes, it is another bit of bureaucracy. Uh but does that automatically mean it will slow things down and make things more difficult?

What's your sense? Well, you know, in the absence of having the kind of conversation you and Tim were just having about what or you and Michelle were having about what can be pulled back and what can be rolled into to various reviews, the Conservative leader is not coming up with any of that.

>> You, know,, it's, just, one, more, criticism after a criticism after a criticism without any kind of alternatives being laid out.

And I think if he really wants to start breaking through and sounding like more than just an angry election loser, he's going to have to come up with some of those alternatives.

So he says, "Look, yeah, this is what Carney's doing, but what we really need is XYZ to be pushed forward immediately through the House.

" And we're not really getting that from him. And as a result, it just sounds quite hollow from him.

Uh Shachi your thoughts on how that lands versus the reality of what is happening with with the major projects office.

>> Look,, there's, a, lot, going, on, in, the country right now. There's a lot going on in the world right now and it is really hard if you are Pierre Polyv or anybody else frankly to get a message across and so to Andrew's point you would think that there might be a little more thought put into okay what what am I going to focus on in terms of my communication to Canadians around it.

He can't I guess or has chosen not to criticize the projects per se.

So what we're going to criticize the process and photo ops photo ops are are the dwat df like whatever politician cuts the ribbon or or makes the announcement gets the photo op.

That is that that is just par for the course in politics. So you know I I'm surprised he didn't say why this and not that. I I'm surprised he didn't focus on some of the regional aspects of of what was going where there.

And you know the the one thing he talks about there or or perhaps could have gone further with is can he actually get this done?

Can the the by he I mean Carney.

Can the government actually deliver uh on on something that isn't already being given a fairly good head start?

I think there there was some room to to open people's minds and get them thinking about that.

But all the rest of it, it it does just feel like you're ticking a bunch of boxes, uh, Mr. Polyv, as opposed to trying to stay focused on a message that lands >> right?

, So So, Michelle,, on, this,, whenever I ask Minister Hodson uh, about what this does, he goes to a football analogy, which is colorful and illustrative, but it's it's not specific enough.

Don Ferrell gave a pretty good answer today on on the convening role she sees her and her team playing.

And we've heard from Mark Selby, the CEO of Canada Nickel, saying, "Look, this referral does a couple of things.

It helps us unlock, you know, international capital.

It will help us, you know, get shovels in the ground faster, and it will help us streamline on the permitting things and speed things up.

" So, you get a more tangible explanation from the non-political actors in this space.

So, I if it's football analogy versus more bureaucracy and not that, I I mean, how do you think this is received and seen and what's the reality of it?

Well, the one thing that you also don't see is anyone in the private sector or any companies saying we don't want this major project's office, right?

In fact, you're seeing lineups of of projects wanting to be able to get through the system because they actually understand and see the value in it.

Um and you know, Mr. Polyv's also wrong in suggesting that these things are just going to happen anyways. They're not.

You know, I'll go back to the the LG2.

they still are going to be making a final investment decision and that decision is going to be made based on whether they can actually move the approvals through in Canada fast enough if they think that it's going to be a welcome investment environment and that they can kind of you know make a decent return if we have the skilled labor that's going to be able to actually work there.

All of those kinds of factors are things that each of these companies are still making the decision about.

So, you know, just trying to think that this is going to happen anyway is um you know it's pretty short-sighted. And I think Andrew's making a really good point.

What is he offering? What is he suggesting uh in its alternative?

>> It, was, interesting,, Tim,, to, hear, Don Ferrell say they'll help, you know, uh make all the permitting happening at the same time and work with labor groups on helping them ensure they have the the labor pool they need to get a project going.

So, I I don't know to to Michelle's point, do do businesses really want the major project office?

Is this is this uh something >> business?

, Look,, I, had, this, conversation with a business working in our province and they all want clarity.

Clarity and direction and knowing where this is going to go. That's how you plan.

And they want to know this is real too.

I mean, Pierre Polyv could challenge.

You guys ready to take notes in the opposition leaders office cuz I know you love when I give you advice. But uh you know PR Polyv could actually go after them a little bit about this idea of the lottery system that's created because there's a bit of interesting murky stuff there.

Who gets ahead? Who gets how do you get on the list? How do you get the bottom of that could be a problem as I said for the government.

The second point um you know the leader of the Conservative party likes to quote others.

Would have been a great day to quote Candace Lang and to talk about what she's talked about. I think he has in the past offered alternatives.

He has offered the alternative to C69.

I think it would help him to be more propositional and not just oppositional particularly on issues like this, which matter to a lot of the voters that are in line with him.

Ultimately, Pierre Polyv wants to be able to win by taking the anger that is helping him now and transferring that into the opportunity of employment and enhanced livelihoods for these people. So, hope you got all that guys.

That is probably where to go.