Nischa Shah: They’re Lying To You About Buying a House! My 652510 Rule Built $200K Passive Income!

We put a lot of pressure on people today

that as soon as they start working, they

need to get onto that property ladder.

But there's ways to build wealth that

don't require you to be in the real

estate game, including three numbers

that everyone should know when it comes

to their personal finance 65 20. Just

knowing that creates a better life for

yourself.

Nisha Shaw is the former high-profile

investment banker turned financial

mentor

whose content has helped millions

rethink their relationship with money,

break free from crippling debt,

and take the first steps toward building

lasting wealth. Everything is trying to

pull you away from your money. Cost of

living going up, prices going up,

fighting against marketing to keep your

money in your pocket.

You earned this.

So, it's becoming harder and harder. And

I've gone through this. I followed

society's version of money until I

realized that if I continue living this

way, the freedom, the choice, the

options that I want aren't going to

exist.

Um, hold on, give me a second.

And I felt really trapped at times, but

I don't know how to escape. And I know a

lot of people are probably hearing this

and thinking I'm also in that place. And

so I really feel like my purpose is to

help as many people to go from feeling

trapped to freeing themselves and using

money to do that.

Wasn't expecting that.

Okay. So people are hungry for easy

money tips and these stay the same

regardless of how much you earn. So we

could talk about the peace of mind fund

and doing that puts you ahead of 59% of

Americans. Then there's building your

emergency buffer and this does more for

your emotional well-being than earning

over 200k. But with the way cost of

living is going, you cannot save your

way to retirement. So this is when you

want to move on to investing. That is

the easiest way to make money. And my

principle with investing is very very

simple and it's just

listen to my regular listeners, I know

you don't like it when I ask you to

subscribe at the start of these

conversations. I don't like saying I

don't like it being in there. None of us

like it. It's frustrating. Do you know

what's also frustrating? It's also

frustrating when I go into the back end

of a YouTube channel and I see that 56%

of you that listen frequently to this

podcast haven't yet subscribed. And so

many of you don't even know that you

haven't subscribed because I see in the

comment section you say to me, you go,

"I didn't even realize I didn't

subscribe." And that actually fuels the

show. It's basically like you're making

a donation to the show. So that's why I

ask all the time because it enables us

to build and build and build and build

and we're going for the long term here.

So all I'd ask you is if you've seen the

show before and you like it, help me

help my team here. Hit the subscribe

button and we'll continue to build this

show for you. That's my promise. Thank

you to all of you guys that do

subscribe. Means the world to me. Let's

get on with the show.

Misha Sha with your YouTube channel

which has accumulated almost 2 million

subscribers in a incredibly short period

of time. What is the goal? What is the

mission that you're on? What is it

you're trying to do?

Money touches almost every part of our

life and impacts so many choices from

where we choose to live, uh what we

choose to do for a living, what our

weekends even look like. So my mission

is really simple. It's take the

complicated financial jargon and turn it

into easy, practical, actionable money

tips that anyone can implement and

understand.

And what kinds of people and what kinds

of financial situations? Because

obviously we've got millionaires on one

end and then we've got people like me at

18 years old that are struggling to even

get a couple of quid together to feed

myself.

The principles of money stay the same

regardless of how much you earn. And

although my mission is to help make

money more accessible, the principles,

the underlying thinking, the mindset can

be applied whether you're making 50,000,

500,000 or more.

And we don't really learn about money.

We don't.

We don't. Nobody in school was teaching

me about money. My parents didn't teach

me about money growing up either. So

someone like you who can simplify some

of these big complicated words or terms

or strategies I think is um is of the

moment but also more needed now than

ever because people are complaining

about cost of living crises and prices

going up and inflation and all these

kinds of things. Is that is that what

you're seeing?

Absolutely. And at the same time, it's

becoming harder and harder to save our

hard-earned money

because everything,

whether it's marketing, whether it's

needs going up, everything is trying to

pull you away from your money.

And who are you?

I'm a qualified accountant. So I I

studied finance at university initially,

then I qualified as a chartered

accountant, and then I spent nine years

in banking. And do you do you think your

sort of psychological or emotional or I

don't know trauma response to money

plays a role in our relationship with

money?

Absolutely. We definitely all have our

unique relationship with money. And a

lot of it comes from our upbringing.

It's like an invisible backpack that we

carry that we don't even realize that

we're carrying it. And it could be fed

through us through what we've

experienced firsthand or whether we've

just been on a a fly on a wall. Hearing

a conversation between our parents

and what might feel invisible at the

time has such a big impact on the way

you see money, how you use it, how you

earn it, grow it, spend it, save it,

everything.

But that said, you can understand what

to do to start making it and turning it

into your favor.

What was your relationship like with

money when you went to university? I

didn't understand what money meant to

me. So I followed society's version of

money. So I bought all the things to

make me look better. All the things to

make my lifestyle look better. And I did

that after graduating for years and

years and years. That was the path that

I followed for a very long time until I

realized that if I continue living this

way and spending my money this way, the

freedom, the choice, the options I'm

have or that I want aren't going to

exist.

Was there like a catalyst moment where

you realized that or was it just an

accumulated feeling?

So for a long time I believed in this

blueprint. Go to school, get a job,

climb the ladder and security will

follow. And I did that to the tea for

almost a decade,

nine years in banking. And I'll say I

was about halfway into my career where I

was

we me I met this amazing woman. She was

basically my mentor. And we were working

on multi-billion dollar transactions

late into the nights for weeks in a row

at times. And we were in the middle of

one of the largest deals that we've

done. And overnight she lost her job.

Overnight she was made redundant and the

very next day I was asked to replace

her.

And I remember thinking at the time that

this person believed in financial

security. This person believed in the

blueprint and it was taken from her. And

now I'm in her shoes. What's to say that

the same won't happen to me? And that

was the first time I saw a crack in the

system and I realized

if you give someone else the power to

feed you, you're also giving them the

power to starve you. And that's when I

really understood, okay, I need to learn

about money. I need to stop spending it

in the way that I'm spending it. I need

to stop having this mindset around money

because what it's done right now is it's

kind of trapped me. So what I did is

took it took the power back in my own

hands. did everything I needed to learn

how to save, spend, invest, budget. And

it came very easily to me because I was

in banking. That was it was financial

lingo and I could simplify it very very

easily for me. And that's really where

my mindset or my change in thinking

around money changed. And that's the

same moment where I started my YouTube

channel.

Oh okay.

That was it.

Cuz a lot of people bury their heads in

the sand. I was looking at some stats

earlier on that said the vast majority

of people just have this sort of

avoidant relationship with their

financial situation, with financial

literacy, with their bills, with their

bank statements. I mean, there's like

long-standing jokes from the internet

that

people just don't open their banking

apps. They just don't look at it.

Yeah. Yeah. There's there's even a

terminology for this and it's called the

uh ostrich effect and it's a cognitive

bias that explains people will avoid

looking at negative financial

information because of the fear of how

it makes them feel. It's the same reason

why we don't check our bank account

after a night out or we don't open

there's a a pile of bills on our table

and we don't check them.

But it's that thing avoiding it thinking

that oh it's just going to disappear if

I don't look at it. It's that thing that

keeps you stuck. It's that thing that

makes you realize I don't even know

which direction I'm going. It's a

disorganized finances. Yeah.

So someone's listening to this right now

and they resonate with this idea of

they're slightly avoidant. They don't

really have a plan. and they're kind of

just they get paid, they they they

answer their bills, and then they wait

till the next payday. They're not being

intentional with their money. Is there a

step one in taking back control?

The very first thing number one that I

would say to do is build a peace of mind

fund.

A peace of mind fund.

This is not about maths. It's not the

mathematically optimal thing to do, but

it is the psychological because as we've

discussed, money is as much about

emotions as is it as as it is about

numbers.

So, what I'll say is go through the last

30 days of your bank statements and

calculate exactly how much it costs for

one month of your living. So, mortgage,

rent, utilities, bills, minimum debt

payments, car payments, whatever that

total is, that's the amount that you

want to saved up for your peace of mind

fund.

Okay. So, I go through my last uh 30

days of my bills. I find out that it's

cost me, let's say, $1,000.

Okay. That's one month of your core

living expenses.

Yeah. So, I need to save $1,000.

You don't need to invest it. You don't

need to save it. You don't need to It's

not for a holiday. The reason why you

want to save this is because when life

does what it does best, which is throw

curve balls, you want to make sure that

you have it handled. If a boiler broke,

breaks, your car dies on a Monday

morning, the last thing you want on top

of the stress of dealing with that thing

is the financial stress of how you're

going to pay for it.

That's what this thing covers. It tells

you, I've got peace of mind. Whatever

life throws at me, I can handle it. And

saving that one month of living costs

puts you ahead of 59% of Americans and

30% of people living in the UK. 59% of

Americans unfortunately can't pay for a

$1,000 expense.

And 30% of people in the UK can't cover

one month of their living expenses if

something happened.

What is what is step two in that regard?

Step two, this is where we do move into

the mathematical optimal thing. This is

you cut the financial bleeding.

Okay.

And what I mean by that is I get so so

many times people ask me, Nisha, I have

4,000 5,000 sitting in my bank account.

What should I do with it? And my first

question back to them is, do you have

any high interest rate debt? Because if

you have savings of $2,000 earning 4%,

but you also have credit card debt at

20%. You're leaking money more than

you're making it. It's like pouring

water into a bucket with holes in it and

wondering why it's not going to fill up.

So, what you want to do is you want to

take all of your debt that you have,

rank it from highest to lowest

in terms of interest,

in terms of interest rate, and then

everything above 8%. You you want to

make minimum payments across everything

first. And then everything above 8%, you

want to throw your extra savings into

the highest interest rate first, the

debt with the highest interest rate, and

then move down in that order.

And interest rate, is that paid monthly

or yearly?

It's paid monthly.

It's paid monthly. So, if I have a

£1,000 loan on a credit card and the

interest rate is 10%. I'm paying

£100

paid monthly over the year they're going

to pay 100. Okay.

But that's split out into monthly

payments assuming that they're not

drawing down more on that credit card.

And are you against credit cards?

Credit cards are good if you're using

them the right way. Really good if

you're using them in the right way. And

that means the points that you're using,

the rewards that you get for it, the

bonuses that you get from it, all really

helpful. only if you're paying them off

in full every single month. If you're

not using that or if you're not doing it

in that way, which is kind of what they

want you to do because they want you to

miss these payments because that's how

credit card companies make money by your

missed payments. If you're not doing

that, then the benefits just don't weigh

up.

Okay?

It doesn't make sense. Use credit cards,

but use it in a way that stacks up in

your favor, not in the credit card

company's favor.

It's almost paradoxical that you'd use a

credit card, but only if you can afford

to use a credit card.

Yeah, that's exact. Yeah, you got to you

got to think about it. Can I can I pay

for this thing outright in cash?

If I can, then I can ship put it on my

credit card.

And that's the the anomaly is property.

If you're using it to make money,

healthare, education, but for anything

else, unless it's making you money,

yeah, you that's the way you want to

think about it because it does encourage

extra spending otherwise.

Okay. So, I'm going to pay off my high

interest debts first with any spare cash

that I have.

Yeah.

What's number three? Number three is

build your emergency buffer.

Okay,

so this this is your core living

expenses that we've already calculated

in step one. And you want to times that

by three if you are single, you have um

predictable income.

Mhm.

Or you want to times it by six if you

are head of household, you have a

mortgage, you have unpredictable income.

That's your emergency cushion and it

protects you from the bigger life

things. It's a very It's the third thing

you want to do. It's protects you if you

lose your job, if you have a health

scare, if there are dependents that you

need to care for. This kind of buys you

that time. But there's really

interesting research from Vanguard that

actually showed saving 3 to six months

of your living expenses

does more for your emotional well-being

than earning over 200k.

So, just the peace of mind again,

it's that breathing room. Yeah. 3 to 6

months of breathing room in your bank

account. It just moves the needle. It's

the peace of mind. It's the security.

It's the stability.

One of the core human needs. And it's

interesting because we we're kind of

looking at making more money and earning

more. And we're chasing the next number.

And actually, the thing that's going to

have the biggest impact or move the

needle on our financial well-being is

at this stage having that 3 to six

months of living expenses saved up.

It's all relative, right, at the end of

the day. So if and it's it's incredibly

stressful and I've been there when you

don't know if you can pay this month's

rent if you don't know if you can feed

yourself. Um but also the sort of un

back of the mind knowledge that if

something were to happen you'd be

screwed. It's incredibly stressful way

to live and you might not even realize

the stress consciously but you might

just feel it. It might just be an angst

in your life.

Yeah. And I I this applies at any income

level. Even people earning six figures

who are living paycheck to paycheck

who don't have that emergency buffer in

place. They have that anxiety. And also

that same report showed that having that

3 to six months with the the people that

they surveyed their productivity at work

was better just from knowing that they

didn't have that financial stress. I

know millionaires, people that have a

lot of money that are in a similar

position in the sense of they are

stressed and anxious because their

overheads are also in the millions every

month and there's a lot of money coming

in but there's a lot of money going out.

So they're still sometimes just one or

two months away from being at zero.

Yeah.

Um it's a different type of stress

because their sort of subjective

experience and lifestyle is better on a

dayto-day. But it's interesting that

it's it's really relative to your your

outgoings.

Exactly.

What's the what's the fourth point then?

So, I've got so far I've got have a

peace of mind fund um which is one

month's expenses. Number two is pay off

high interest rate debt. Number three is

build an emergency fund which is three

times your monthly expenses if you're

single and six times if you're in a

relationship and and there's people

depending on you.

Yeah, most people actually stay here.

Okay.

A lot of people just save save. And I

just want to before we move on to step

four, I want to say that if you're

saving, you only want to save for one of

two things. the emergency fund and the

piece of fund mage fund that we spoke

about. And the second thing is for any

goals that you have in the next five

years, whether that's a house deposit,

car pay, car deposit. Other than that,

you don't want to be saving that money.

It's going to be

the value is going to be eaten away

quicker with inflation if you're just

keeping it saved in a bank account. So

that's when you want to move on to step

four and that is investing.

Okay? So you don't want to save, you

don't want to oversave.

You don't want to oversave. know when to

stop saving and start investing.

And when does one start investing and

stop saving?

After they've saved the three to six

months of the living expenses. Okay,

that's the third step. At that point,

once they've done step one to three,

this is the point. And the reason why I

say this, Stephen, is because if you

start investing before you've got from

steps one to three and you don't have

your savings set aside and the market

goes down and you have an emergency,

you're going to have to pull that money

out at a loss.

Yeah. or you're going to have to go into

debt, which is why that was step two,

cut the financial bleeding.

So, it's really important to have steps

one to three done before you even think

about investing.

Okay?

Those 3 to six months, it's your core

living expenses. So, it's forget all

your spending on the things that you

love or the things that make make life

good. It's just the things that you need

to absolutely survive because if you do

job lose your job, you're not going to

be out partying and spending loads of

money. You're going to think, okay, how

do I pay my bills for the next 3 months?

How do I survive for the next month?

That's the thing that's going to cover

that off.

Okay. Right.

Yeah.

So, it's not like the season ticket at

Manchester United or the Louis Vuitton

jackets. It's

No. No.

It's just your your your heating, your

bills, your food, survival.

Yeah.

So, number four is investing.

Number four is investing. For a while,

we've heard of the phrase save for

retirement.

Yeah.

Saving for retirement. You cannot save

your way to retirement with the way cost

of living is going, with the way

inflation is going, with the price

retirement is going to cost by the time

you get there. Saving is just not

enough. You have to be investing your

money. And there are two main ways that

you can invest. But before I even say

that, most people know that they should

be investing, but they don't do it. They

say, "I'll do it tomorrow or next week

or next year

or when I'm rich

or when I'm rich." And then by the time

they do start, they've missed out on the

most powerful lever that they had going

for them, which is time. That is one of

the most important things when it comes

to investing

because of the way when you start

investing with small recurring amounts,

it just compounds over time. So early

often when it comes to investing,

there's two avenues to invest through.

The first is through your employer

sponsored retirement account

and the second is through your own

individual

uh tax advantaged account.

What are those two things?

The first is done through your employer.

So what they do is they invest on behalf

of you. In the UK, you're automatically

enrolled into it. In the US, you'll have

to check check with your HR and get

yourself enrolled into it. And what this

does is your company before you it pays

you or puts money into your bank

account. It takes a small percentage you

could decide how much and it puts it

towards investments

for you on behalf of you pre-tax. So

you're not paying tax on that amount.

You're putting into an investment

account and then that money is

compounding for you pre-tax.

Do all employees do this?

Most employers do it. Not all employers

do it. And some employers have a match

which means if you put some money in,

they will also match that amount that

you're putting in. So, how do I know if

my employee does this?

Check with your HR.

And is there a cap?

There is a cap to how much they will

match.

Yeah.

Um, so say if they match up to 3%, then

you want to put in the 3%. But then you

could keep going, but at this stage, you

don't even need to go over the match at

this point of the the steps. You just

want to put in enough to meet that match

because you're getting the tax benefit

and then you're also getting free money

from your sponsored plan on top of that.

You don't want to leave that on the

table.

And when can I pull that money out? when

you retire at retirement. So, this is

for your retirement. You're looking

after your future self. It's today's you

planting seeds for future you. That's

what this is about.

What about people that say, "Listen,

retirement's a long way away."

Yeah.

You know, I'm going to be what, 65, 75.

It's just a long way away. I want to

live a good I want to live it up now,

I don't want to be putting money in a

box that I can't open for 50 years.

And you want to spend the money now to

live the good life.

I the most important thing when it comes

to money is understanding what you want

and then making sure your money backs

those decisions. And I say this because

when I was in the graduate scheme, there

were two very different people who

worked in my team. And the first person

who sat opposite me on the bank of seats

in front of me, he used to come in in

his Ferrari and he on Monday morning

when we were talking about what we did

over our weekend, what we did on the

weekend, he would talk about the

Michelin star restaurants he tried, the

last minute trip to Italy and his

computer screen was the next car that he

wanted. And on my left was Phil, who

later become my mentor. And he came in

with his pack lunch. He wore the same

shirt tie combo that I could probably

remember it and sketch it from memory.

And he had his holidays, he had his

vacations, but he was a lot more

selective about them.

And I didn't see it at the time, but now

it's so clear to me that they were

chasing very different things. The

person opposite of me, he was chasing

this good life, the stories, the status,

the memories, and that was important to

him, and he went for it. But Phil, and I

visited him just before I came to LA,

him, his wife, um, his two kids, dogs in

their countryside home, and he was

enjoying the retired life. He was

loving life. He bought what he wanted,

which was early retirement, freedom,

time choice.

Neither path is wrong, but both paths,

both people required taking a series of

trade-offs.

Both had to make some sacrifices. And I

think that's the thing that people miss.

Sometimes it's so easy to say yes to the

thing right in front of you because the

benefit is there. The benefit is

immediate. You don't realize what you're

going to miss out on later on in life.

So the guy that was sat opposite you

with the Ferrari, what was the

trade-offs he was making?

He was probably going to be end up

working for the until he had retirement

money to spend. He was going to spend

his life at banking, but he was going to

live it big, but he wouldn't have the

freedom, the choice, the time because

his spending and his income matched each

other.

And so what I want to just say is for

anyone saying, "Oh, I just want to live

it big. I want to enjoy the money." Find

out what is the thing that's most

important to you. And make sure your

your money choices stack that decision

because the wrong choice isn't choosing

the wrong path. It's just not knowing

that you even had a choice in this whole

thing. Do you think the guy that's sat

opposite you with the Ferrari was in any

way insecure? Was there an element of

seeking validation?

There might have been. Yeah, there might

have been. That's that that might been

what made him happy. But I think it's

also not having the self-awareness to if

that made him happy, then by all means.

But if it didn't make him happy, and a

lot of people do that do this, me

included. I've I've gone through this.

I've done it. When you don't know what

makes you happy, you end up just doing

things that gets you that external

validation. And for some people, it

might mean, okay, you know what? I

actually do enjoy this new car. It does

bring me happiness. But for others, it

might just be a facade. And later on,

they later on in life, they just

realized that actually no one really

cared. The only person who cared was me.

And although I did it for other people,

it's uh now I realize that all the

trade-offs I had to make as a result of

it. Because happiness and external

validation, they're like cousins.

Yeah.

But they're not the same guy. Do you

know what I mean? They're like they look

they're kind of like of the same family,

but one of them's they're like

dysfunctional sibling,

but they kind of look the same. You

know, you look at that guy in his in his

Ferrari, you go, "Oh, must be happy."

And he comes in and he's probably got a

smile on his face because he's talking

about his Ferrari.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what he's built

himself on, I guess.

But I don't know if that's happiness.

You know, the guy without the Ferrari

might be.

I think universally most people what

they want is

the freedom and the choice and the time.

I think more people are after that and

that can make more people happier than

any status symbol

because when you do end up going down

the route of buying something to make

your make you happy, you're on a hedonic

treadmill. you're then buying the next

thing and the next thing and the next

thing and you get those spikes of

happiness. There never is really long

lasting fulfilling happiness.

So investing strategy number one is

asking your employer about their

investment scheme.

Finding out if your employer has yeah an

retirement plan and making sure that

you're invested into it enough to cover

the match that they offer.

What's strategy number two?

The strategy number two is your own

individual tax advantaged investment

account. This is ISA in the UK and this

is where you put your own money after

tax into an investment account and then

the money grows over time taxfree. So

when you pull it out at the end you

could with um the UK you could pull it

out in 5 years and 10 years or in

retirement then you could withdraw that

money taxree. So both of them have

taxable advantages. One is when you put

the money in, you're getting the tax

advantages. The other one's when you

draw the money out, but they both have

tax advantages. And so you're putting

the money in and it's growing taxfree.

That's really a big deal. That's huge.

That's that's money that's compounding

for you and you're not paying tax on

that.

But there's a limit.

There's a limit uh annually it's 20,000.

But

in the UK and the US,

it changes um year. at the moment I

believe at $7,000 but with a quick

Google search you could stay on top of

whatever the current limit is for the

account or the taxable advantage account

that you're investing in.

So I get paid I put it into my in the UK

it's called an ISA.

Yeah.

And the the limit is 20k. So if I put

20k in let's say

Yeah.

If it goes to a 100k because the

investments go really well is the whole

100k taxree.

Yeah. You're not paying capital gains

tax. You're not paying interest. I mean

sorry dividends tax. So pretty much

that's the first place everyone should

really be investing if they want an

alternative to investing in their

pension.

Yeah, that's the first thing you want to

cap out because of the taxable benefits

that come with it.

Is it called a Roth IRA in the US?

That's right.

So it's max contribution is $7,000 to

$8,000 a year if you're 50 or older.

Yeah. The specific amounts depending on

who you are. Standard employee

contribution limit of $23,000.

Interesting.

Whereas in UK it's just a flat

20,000 is the current.

And with my ISA, this taxfree ISA that

everyone is eligible to invest in, do I

then have to pick the things it invests

in?

Yes.

Okay.

This is the next Oh, we could talk about

this now actually. Yeah. So, when you

are deciding what to invest in, this is

with the employer sponsored account, the

employee sponsored retirement account,

you actually just choose what risk

profile you have and it will do that

investing for you. So you'll say I'm I

feel really risky or I'm not very risky

at all. Yeah.

And it does it for you

and it does it will invest on behalf of

you.

Yeah.

And so most people don't even realize

that they're investing but they are

investing through their company if they

have that employer sponsor plan.

Then the individual account is you doing

the investing yourself. You're picking

what to invest in.

Yeah.

And what shall I invest in?

My principle with investing is very very

simple and it's just keep it keep it

simple and do it for the long term. So I

say index funds and target date

retirement funds is what you want to

invest in.

What's that?

An index fund. Let's put it out. An

index, think of it as a list of

companies. So the S&P 500 is a list of

the largest the top 500 companies to

keep this really simple. Footsie 100 is

the top 100 companies in the on the

London Stock Exchange. The fund is a pot

of money that invests in the companies

on that list.

So by investing in an S&P 500, you've

invested in a small piece of the top 500

companies in the US. That's what an

index fund is. And so even if one

company goes down, you're diversified.

And so there'll be another company that

will and the other companies will bring

it back up again.

And what kind of performance can I

expect from investing in the S&P 500?

Historically speaking, um the long-term

average has been 8 to 10% per year

depending on the years and the time

frame that you're looking at. That is

different to a one-year holding period.

It could go up, it could go down, you

just don't know. So, the longer you

invest for, the chances of you getting

that 8 to 10% on average increase.

Is 8 to 10% going to make me rich

though Nisha?

How long are you doing it for?

You tell me. If you have a lumpsum

amount that you're like, "Okay, you know

what? I have 2,000 that I want to

invest. What should I do with it and

it's taking me five years to invest

this?"

I would say 1,900 of that. Don't invest

it. 100 of it. Invest. And I'll I'll say

why I'm saying this. 100. I want you to

invest it for anyone listening. I want

you to listen. I want you to invest that

because I want you to see and feel the

emotions when you see your money go up

over time. Sure, it's going to be small.

It's not going to make you rich

investing that, but you're going to

instill that good habit early on. And

you're going to remember that because

the remaining amount, you're going to

put that towards increasing your income.

That's the first thing you're going to

do. Think of your income as a river and

your specific milestones, life

milestones, as buckets across the river.

So, you have retirement, you have your

house deposit, you have your car payment

that you're all saving up for. Those

buckets will fill up faster the quicker

and wider that river is. That is your

income that's coming through. If you

don't have much of an income coming

through, those buckets are going to take

ages to fill up. That's why I say if

it's taken you a long time to save that

amount, I actually would recommend you

putting that money towards increasing

your income first before investing it.

If however you have disposable income,

you have an reoccurring amount that you

can invest monthly,

use that to your advantage. Harness the

power of long-term compounding growth

because that is the thing that is going

to make you rich. Sure, it will take 25,

30 years, but that is leverage that you

don't get through your day job. It's

your money working for you without you

having to be there. So you would suggest

if you're really at that early level to

focus on increasing your income,

investing in increasing your income.

Yeah, that's the first thing. If you're

figuring out, okay, I need to increase

my income. It's taking me a while to

earn this amount and I only have a lump

sum of 2,000 5,000. Focus on increasing

your income. Yeah, that's what I would

say.

And how does one focus on increasing

their income?

There are a couple of ways to do this.

So the easiest way to increase your

income is asking for a pay rise,

increasing your responsibility, the work

that you do, your contributions, and

saying to your boss or your manager,

this is the value that I've bought. This

is the responsibility that I've taken

on. This is what the market is paying

for a similar role, and this is why a

pay rise is fair.

The other option,

did you ever ask for a pay rise?

Multiple times. multiple multiple times

when you're in investment banking.

Yeah. It's one of those things where

if you don't ask, you don't get. Of

course, you'll get, but you sitting

there and thinking the hard work is

going to show without you asking for it.

It's unlikely. You're going to have to

build a case and say, "Okay, these are

the things I've done. These are the

things that we said we were going to do

or I wanted to work on in my performance

review," which is what I had. get to the

end of the performance review and these

are the things that I actually did and

this is where I went above and beyond.

So if I'm your boss Nisha. Yeah. If we

just replay one of those conversations

you had.

Yeah.

You were sat in a performance review and

what did you say to me?

I would say hey Stephen. Hey,

3 months ago or 6 months ago, we spoke

about um the things that I needed to do

to get promoted or to get a pay rise.

And we mentioned XY Z and I've done all

of those things here and here is the

feedback that I've got. Here is where

I've gone above and beyond. And this is

some extra things that other people or

the 360 feedback that I've done. And

that this is what it says.

Yeah. And that's when I was like, do you

think that this is the bracket that we

discussed? Do you think that's fair?

Research shows that women are much less

likely to ask for a pay rise and when

they do, they are less likely to get one

compared to men.

Is that kind of what you found?

Yeah, I've seen those facts and I think

it's really such a shame that when a

woman asks for a pay rise, it may not be

seen in the same way as when a male

counterpart asks for the payriseise. And

the factors that we can control are the

being prepared,

having the book of all the things that

you've done. But I recommend and this is

things that I done when I was in an

organization or when I felt like even I

was being paid less than my male

counterpart is speaking firstly if

there's a HR team in your department

speaking to them and asking am I online

or am I aligned to the average for my

department and for what my role is. they

can give you a really good guideline as

to whether you are underpaid or whether

you deserve a bump to be more aligned to

the general pay in in that role. And the

second thing is have an ally or have

someone in your workplace that you'd

always speak to, whether it's a mentor,

whether it's a colleague. And it's worth

always speaking to other people about

money. It's such a taboo topic.

Yeah,

we hate it. We hate talking to someone

else about their salary, what they're

making, but the more financial

transparency that we encourage, the more

we can learn from each other.

Yeah.

Openly ask the person next to you, hey,

this is what do you get paid? As much as

hard as that is, open up that

conversation. But the other way to

increase your income is actually through

switching jobs, switching companies.

Because there's so much research that's

been done,

and the most popular one is actually one

cited by Forbes that says

people who stay at the same company for

two years or more on average earn 50%

less over their lifetime.

And I've made a video on my salary year

by year over the last over the nine

years I spent in banking. And the

biggest pay jumps that I saw were from

switching

companies.

So those are the the two ways that I

would actually say yeah increase your

income by asking for more by switching.

I do think one of the most effective

ways that I've seen as well is just

looking at the industry as well and

presenting a case from the industry and

people have done that to me several

times. They've over the last 10 years

they've come to me and said the industry

pay for my role and my seniority level

in this part of the world in this city

is this I'm currently on this um is can

we have a conversation about about this

to rectify it and

I can't think of an instance where I

haven't been receptive to that

especially if it's justified you know

because actually sometimes the employee

doesn't know the employee doesn't know

that they might be underpaying you um

that's a a genuine possibility I know

that sounds like crazy talk But

sometimes employees don't know because a

lot of roles that we're hiring for these

days are new roles. They're not roles

that existed 10 years ago. Even in

podcasting, like there's it's hard to

find benchmarks for what people were

paid in podcasting 10 years ago for

different roles that now exist in our

industry. So it's worth having a convers

an honest conversation. And I do think I

do think from the employer standpoint

it's worth leading with the value that

you've brought like you've said versus

blunt demands because humans are human

beings and you can turn someone's nose

up or their backup by the way in which

you deliver your message but delivering

it from an evidence-based perspective

and saying this these are kind of the

accomplishments that I've made and these

are the responsibilities I've taken on

and this is like the industry um average

and I love being here and I want to stay

here. Um so I was wondering if it'd be

possible to have a conversation about

my salary. I'd receive that very very

well.

And even aligning it to your company's

objectives. This is what I was doing.

Yeah. Exactly. Here is what I've done

aligned to your objectives that you're

looking for.

Exactly.

And you talked about um saving for a

house as well. Is do you see buying a

house as a good investment? Because it

is it is the first thing most people do,

right? It's like the first thing we're

told as part of the like script of life.

When you get some money, save it up, get

a mortgage.

A lot of our view about buying or

renting or buying a house is actually

formed from what we saw our parents do

and what we saw the generation before us

do. And so even looking at my life

formed from the way my parents thought

they came to the UK as immigrants and

when they bought their first house it

was like the epitome of success.

They had this thing that they can

that represented wealth for them that

they could touch, they could see, they

could feel. It represented stability,

security. And then when we moved out of

that terrace home into another home, it

was between two stations in a catchment

area. So me and my sisters got access to

better schools. That was then their

happiness. That was then their goal and

the milestone achieved.

And for the previous generation

and still the way people see it today

when people say, "Oh, we need to build

buy a house for wealth building." It's

because a big factor of it is that it

was a forced mechanism of saving.

So when you're buying a house or paying

for a mortgage, that's not optional. You

have to pay it. You then can't then

spend that money on anything else. And

so as a result, those monthly payments

are going towards building your equity

and building this house's value. And as

a byproduct, it's building wealth for

you. So for someone listening to this,

if they're hearing this conversation,

they say, "Okay, you know what? I have I

have a goal to buy and they run the

numbers, it makes sense for them,

they're doing it for the long term."

Then I would say that's a really good

goal to have. Go for it. But I think we

put a lot of pressure on people today

that they need to buy a house and as

soon as they start working that they

need to get onto that property ladder.

So, if you're listening to this and

thinking that I don't have a goal to buy

a house, then there are also ways to

build wealth that don't require you to

be in the real estate game.

I think there's something psychological

about paying rent that you never see

again. That makes you think that it's a

terrible idea.

Yeah.

And sometimes when you look at the

mortgage payment versus the rental

payment, you go, "Well, they're the same

and I'll end up owning this chunk of

concrete,

so I might as well go for the chunk of

concrete."

Yeah. But if you are choosing to rent

and actually there's been studies that's

done on this almost nine out of 12

regions in the UK and the same applies

for other areas in the world as well.

It's renting is or can be cheaper than

buying in that equivalent neighborhood.

And so if you are renting and you're

saving money on that difference then

you've got to be disciplined and

sensible enough to know that

you need to invest the difference.

What you mean? So, if your rent is 1,500

and to get that mortgage and you've

checked the mortgage payments and you've

realized that with the interest that

you're going to be paying on the

mortgage, all the other things that come

into buying a house, so the stamp duty

that you're paying, the property tax,

the repairs, the maintenance, the

insurance, if you factor in the cost of

both, and you do run the numbers and you

say, "Okay, renting is cheaper than

buying than getting a home." That

difference is what you want to be able

to invest. It's kind of a way for you to

say, "I'm creating my own forced

mechanism of saving. This is my own

version of a mortgage. I'm the man I'm

saving. I'm going to set up an

investment account and I'm going to

automate it and I'm going to put money

into it every single month."

Mhm.

And that's the way you're going to build

wealth. That's just as legitimate. And

actually, I've I've went onto the

property ladder and the money that I put

in towards that flat

hasn't grown as near as much as the

money that I made through the stock

market

by investing in the S&P 500.

So, tell me about that. So, you you

bought a property in London or somewhere

in the world

in North London.

Okay.

Um to live in.

Okay.

And I bought it in 2017.

Okay.

Yeah.

and it's gone up in value I'd say about

10%.

Okay,

I've had about eight years. Then you

compare that to the stock market. So

sure, there's a numbers side of it where

people think, okay, I need to buy a

house to build wealth, but that's what

I'm trying to explain that actually if

you save that money and you invested it,

you might be better off financially. But

coming back to your point, yes, there's

that psychological thing of okay, do I

want to pay that money on rent or do I

want to buy? The other psychological

part of it is also

the comfort of knowing that you have

somewhere. And this is a big reason as

to why I bought. The comfort of knowing

that no matter what happens, you have

this place. It's yours. The landlord

can't serve you notice. You can do

whatever you want to the

flat within certain restrictions and

rules. And you have this piece of the

earth that belongs to you. And so that's

the psychological comfort that came from

it. Sure, we could talk about the

numbers and what investing will do and

how much you can make on that, but the

bit that often gets forgotten about is

the invisible side, which is

the peace of mind, the psychological

comfort of just owning a home.

So, can I ask how much did your

apartment cost in London?

530.

So, you spent 530k on it? Yeah.

Um, presumably on like a mortgage or

something at the time.

Yeah, it was on a mortgage. Yeah.

So, 530K. It's gone up 10%.

Yeah, it's gone up about 50k.

About 50k. So, it's now worth 580.

But if you'd put that amount of money

into the S&P 500.

Well, the thing with the house in a flat

is you could use the mortgage, you

wouldn't put that full amount in it

because you had the mortgage. But if you

put that deposit amount into it.

Yeah. The deposit amount. Yeah.

Yeah. The the amount that you would have

put on just a down payment. Um the stamp

duty that I would have also paid. If I

saved that amount and then put it put

that amount whatever it was and invested

that that's the comparison that I would

have made.

So how much was that in total that you

paid into the

um

property?

I put about

50 I think K.

50k and probably the net return on that

if it's gone up

10%.

Yeah. So tank

55k.

Yeah. And the S&P 500 in the same time

has delivered roughly 10 to 12% per year

on average. It has more than doubled in

value since 2017.

So you would have probably got

there you go.

Pretty incredible return on the S&P 500.

Even in the last 5 years, the S&P 500

has grown 90%.

Yeah, makes sense.

So it's almost doubled in the last 5

years alone, which which means you would

have basically doubled your money just

investing it in an index fund.

Are you looking at that from the lows of

the co? Yeah, it says even with the co

lows, it says so um it has more than

doubled in value since 2017 driven by

strong growth in technology despite the

co crash and 2022 pullback

last years.

Case in point that we we're we're

looking at building wealth just through

one mechanism

that feels like it's urgent and needs to

be done by everyone. But actually, if

you're looking at it purely from a

numbers and building wealth perspective,

there are other ways to do that.

My brother is was an investment banker.

He now works full-time um helping with

my money and helping in my my companies.

He went to LSC. He's a very smart guy.

He's always been like the buffin in the

family. He always talked to me about

this ter opportunity cost. So, when I

told him I said, I want to buy this

house in Cape Town. He was like, you

know, this is going to cost you X

millions. Um, think about the

opportunity cost.

Yeah.

And he always every time I say I want to

do this, he's like, think about the

opportunity cost. And he he basically

stands in the way of it. What is

opportunity cost? And why should why

should people be thinking about this

when they're spending their money?

So every pound or dollar that we spend

is one less that we could use on

something else. And that is the

opportunity cost in essence.

And we often

don't think about life in terms of

opportunity costs because we only look

at the thing that is in front of us. So

your brother was telling you about how

you can make more money investing

somewhere else. But what you saw is this

one thing in front of you and you

thought no, I don't even know if I'm

going to make this money elsewhere. I

don't know if that's going to happen.

This thing is right in front of me.

And that's the thing with the with

opportunity cost is always a a trade-off

of what you can see and what you can't

see. But with every decision you make,

there's something else that you're

saying no to. is coming at the cost of

something else.

I was thinking about that as you you

were talking and just to give a bit of

color to this for people at home and a

good example of opportunity cost. So

like yesterday I bought lunch for the

team, right? And the lunch cost $100. It

was like the salad bar in in Los Angeles

cost me $100. Fine. $100, who cares? But

then when I think about the numbers you

shared earlier on, if I'd taken that

$100 and put it into the S&P 500 in 40

years, assuming I got 10% return a year,

which is like the average of the S&P,

that is almost $5,000.

So in terms of opportunity cost, buying

the team lunch for $100 has effectively

cost me in opportunity $5,000 that I

would have had um presuming that return

in 40 years from now. So that lunch

yesterday actually cost me potentially

roughly $5,000.

Yeah. And I guess for you it's

that's the last time the team get lunch.

But on the other side, you might have

missed out on how the team felt

going to that lunch and the invisible

benefits that you might have got from

that. Whether it was just the memories

at that moment in time, whether it's the

motivation,

whether it's the culture that you're

bringing in, that's the thing that you

might miss out on if you choose that

$5,000 in X years of time. And I guess

it's a balancing act as well. Like you

know, I was thinking about the guy you

mentioned with a Ferrari and if he were

to die today, one could argue that in

fact he played life correctly.

Absolutely.

Because he lived it. He saw it. He did

it.

And this is I think the difference you

see in people. Some people have that

long-term view where they think, "No, I

want my money when I'm 65 or 70 in my

pension fund." And other people play a

bit more short term in their life and

go, I just want to have good experiences

now.

And so it's hard to understand who's

right because we don't know how this

story ends, I guess.

Yeah. And I think there's a fine line,

but there's also a way to balance living

in the present with planning with for

the future by understanding that you are

going to allocate a specific amount of

the money that comes in towards the here

and now. And then the rest you are going

to look use towards the future you

because there's something very rewarding

about spending now. When you know the

future you has already been looked

after, it makes you want to spend it

without thinking, oh, what is this

coming at the opportunity cost of?

Do you think people should buy a house

if their objective is to make money or

do you think there are other

opportunities like the S&P 500, like

using your tax-free ISA? A lot of people

listening probably don't have or on

their way to building a deposit or

working their way to have the money for

a deposit. If they're putting themselves

under pressure and they think that

they're just buying a house to build

wealth, I would say actually look into

investing through that stocks and shares

ISA as a start that is taxfree. If you

haven't even started investing through

that stocks and shares is which by the

way 75%

roughly of people in the UK aren't

investing.

So yeah, I would definitely say open

that up first.

And do you think one should split a

proportion of their investments into

different categories of risk

because you got like crypto on the one

side of it which sometimes feel like

being at roulette table and then you've

got things that are typically safe like

the S&P 500.

Yeah, I'm going to say with the stocks

and shares actually when you invest in

and a lot of people also want to invest

in crypto but they also want to invest

in individual stocks as well. Should I

go after the next big winning company

stock? Should I invest in this stock?

Um, what I want to say is that there's

two parts to think about the returns but

also the behavioral concepts.

How you feel when it comes to investing

because

your one of the biggest impacts on

market performance

is your contributions but also your

behavior.

So,

Fidelity did a re found that

people who invested in funds

underperformed the fund that they were

in.

It sounds impossible.

How can you be underperforming a fund

that you're in? But then when they

looked into it, they found that when

fear and anxiety took over, when the

market dropped, these people bought sold

bought sold. They essentially danced in

and out of the fund as a result

underperforming the fund that they were

already holding.

Okay. So it went when it went down, they

sold.

Yeah. When it went down, they sold. When

they went up, they bought. And so what

you want to do is you want to invest in

something that makes you buy and hold.

Fidelity looked into the groups of

people that had invested in their funds

to see which group performed the best.

And when they looked into it, they found

one group significantly outperformed all

other groups when it came to investment

returns. And that was dead people. Dead

people outperformed the living when it

came to investment returns

because they didn't touch their

investment account. They just said it,

forget it. They didn't chase the next

company stock. They don't go after the

thing that's going to go up really

quickly and down really quickly. And

that all ties into the behavior.

You're not letting your emotions drive

the investments. And by the way, this

they found the second best performing

group were the people who forgot that

they had a fund in the first place. So

when it comes to deciding what

allocation you want your portfolio to

be, it's understanding, okay, what is

going to give you the returns, but also

what is the thing that's going to help

you stay the course even when the market

goes and drops?

What will make you feel like, okay, I

could still stay and hold my position?

That's how to decide what kind of

percentage portfolio you want for

yourself. And I've done that with my

portfolio. There's with crypto, it's

less than 2% of my overall portfolio.

I've invested the amount that I feel

like it won't make a difference if I

lose it. And if it goes to the moon,

great. And that's how when I say

somewhere here, the last thing I want to

do is encourage people before they've

even set up the financial foundations to

invest in something that can go up and

come go down when 75% of the population

isn't investing.

Mhm.

And the reason why they're not investing

is because, and I keep hearing this from

time and time again from the people I

speak to, is either they're really

scared they're going to lose money or

they don't know where to start. And so

when it comes to losing money, I always

say do the foundations first, set up

your portfolio there, and then move on

to speculative assets should you want to

go down that path. I remember the first

time I invested and I I downloaded this

app and I put some money in there and

then I watched it and I was watching it

so much and it was going up and down and

up and down and like three four months

later I sold it and I didn't really make

a I think I lost a couple of a couple

hundred quid or whatever and then I

watched that same investment over the

next five, six, seven years just go to

the moon.

Yeah,

it went up and I remember thinking,

I should have just kept it in

there. And then the best investment I

ever made correlates to what you were

saying because I lost my password.

I like lost the password to log in.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And so I couldn't do anything about it

anyway. And I watched it and it went

down and up and down and up and down and

up. But over 5 years it went really

really high. And so when I first started

investing in crypto and I invested in

Ethereum and now Bitcoin, my strategy

was the same. My strategy was get the

the private keys and give half of them

to one person that I trust and half of

them to the other person that I trust.

And even if I want to, I can't do

anything about it. And that's proven to

be one of my greatest returns in

investing because I just

I don't even know what's going on with

it. I'm not paying attention.

Yeah. And that's the thing, you've just

taken the motions out of the equation.

Yeah.

There's no fear, greed. There's nothing

else that controls your financial

decisions other than logic.

I think actually on that first

investment I made when I was like must

have been in my early 20ies, I needed

the money.

Like I didn't have the emergency fund or

a peace of mind fund. So when it started

to go down a little bit naturally you

kind of panic. So I think in that the

second season of life where I started

investing in Ethereum and Bitcoin it

didn't really matter if I lost the

money. So it made it easier to hold my

nerves. And I think nerves are such a

huge part of investing. Um, it goes to

what you said earlier, like it's worth

taking $100 or £100 or whatever you can,

which is a really inconsequential number

of money, and putting it into some kind

of S&P 500 or even a stock just to feel

that almost to like train your

psychology and emotions of like what the

ups feel like and what the down feel

like.

Yeah exactly.

So, your investment strategy, your

portfolio, you mentioned it there.

Yeah.

What does it look like?

It's 40% funds.

Okay. What kind of funds? index funds,

S&P 500, uh I also do international

markets, so UK um so emerging developed

uh across all sectors I also do and I

keep it very very diversified S&P 500

target date retirement funds that

automatically rebalance. So target date

retirement fund for anyone who's

listening and wondering what it is, it's

essentially a fund that has different

types of investments within it. So you

could go on to a platform of your choice

that you use to invest and you could

type in target date retirement fund and

at the end of every fund will have a

year and so you want to pick the year

that is the closest to the year that you

plan to retire. So if you plan to retire

in 2050, that's the year that you will

pick. And what that fund does is it

rebalances

and the

the percentage of different investments

changes to become more conservative as

you approach retirement.

So it starts to protect you a little bit

more.

Exactly.

So it goes risk off. it kind of goes

less risky or

it becomes less risky because you don't

want to be investing the same when you

don't have that much time as you if

you're investing in your 20s 30s you

have enough time to ride out the stock

market waves

so that's 40% of your portfolio

that's 40% 30% is real estate

okay in all parts of the world

no just in the UK

just in the UK

yeah then I'll say about 25% I'm putting

back into my business at the moment

okay

and then the remaining is between crypto

to and cash cash and cash reserves.

Okay. What about investing in yourself?

Because because you know we think about

education and skills and stuff like

that. Should we be investing a small

amount of money into our selves in some

capacity?

100%. I think you just don't stop

investing in yourself at any point in

time. It goes down to increasing your

income, increasing your skills,

increasing your value, which then has a

knock on effect on everything else that

you're investing into.

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code diary. You actually you made a

video um about 40 books that you've read

that improve your own financial

literacy. If there was one book that you

recommend people to read

that you think is most accessible and

will advance their financial literacy in

the most profound way that did that for

you, what book would you recommend?

Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill.

It's not actually about financial

literacy, but it's around money mindset.

And the other book to start with when it

comes to financial literacy is also The

Richest Man in Babylon. when people

don't learn about money is because they

find it quite boring

and not very interesting. So, Richest

Man in Babylon does a good job in

intertwining a novel into financial

literacy concepts.

I've not read that book. I've heard a

lot about it though.

It's the underlying principles when it

comes to money don't really change much

and it's really starts at the basics

when it comes to saving and spending.

So, it's it's a good starting point. Are

there any other principles of of

building wealth that we haven't talked

about? I mean, we we haven't talked

about payday routines. Um, but I've

heard you talk at length about what we

should do when we get paid every single

month. Some of the things we've talked

about already, like uh knowing your

reference point, which is was point one,

right?

That was your piece of mind fund. I

guess knowing your reference point is

essentially just

understanding where your finances break

down and what buckets they fall into.

So I would

actually say this is really important

for anyone to know and it's the three

numbers. It's called the 65205

and it's three numbers that anyone

should know when it comes to money and

their own personal finance.

Okay. 65205. Okay. And the way it works

is you want to the idea of it is to take

your

net income. This is your take-home pay

after you pay taxes, not the number on

your job description,

the number after you paid state

contribution, all other taxes. And you

want to split that into three buckets.

The fundamental, which is your core

living expenses, everything that is

essential to your living costs. mortgage

or rent, utilities, groceries, minimum

debt payments,

car payments, all of that should make up

approximately 65% of your net income.

Okay?

The 20% that's for your fund spending.

These are for the pottery painting that

you booked last minute, the Glastonbury

tickets, the Pilates class. That should

make up about 20% of your take-home pay.

And the remaining 15% that's for your

future you. That's today's you planting

seeds for tomorrow's you. And that

should go to savings, investments, and

extra debt payments. And those are three

good numbers that I think everyone

should know and understand as a good

starting point to try and benchmark your

numbers or your income against those

spending categories. I would say however

if you are someone who's living closer

to paycheck to paycheck

those numbers might look slightly

different and it might be that you're

you want to dial down that fund

percentage to have enough saved over for

the future you so you can continue

contributing to your savings investments

or if you're finding that your housing

and mortgaging is higher than 80 90%

start with when it comes to future you

start with what you can whether it's

saving 2% 3% % start somewhere. You just

want to build that habit.

And in terms of spending, should I, you

mentioned cars earlier and we talked

about houses briefly. Should I be buying

a car? Should I be leasing a car?

A car is, let me just say, it's one of

the two areas that most people

overspend.

And it's because we don't just buy the

numbers. We buy the emotions of the car.

How the car might make us feel, how

we'll look like in the car, the family

memories we'll create in the car.

And I know cuz I did this when I um

got my first job. The very first thing I

did was upgrade my car. I went into a

car showroom, found a car that I thought

I'd look cool in, walked out with the

car an hour later, drove out with the

car, and didn't run my numbers, didn't

check if I could afford the monthly

payments, and for the next couple of

months was figuring out how I was going

to make the rest of my finances meet.

And car dealerships know this. So they

will manipulate the monthly payments in

a way that makes you buy more car than

you can afford. And if you don't

understand how the numbers work, this is

probably one of the

quickest ways to destroy your chance of

building real wealth. The way I

recommend buying a car is to buy

something that's 3 to 5 years old

straight.

And I say 3 to 5 years old because at

that point it's enough it's depreciated

enough as someone else's expense and

won't depreciate as much during the time

that you have it. But if you are someone

who is wealthy and you don't mind taking

that hit on the depreciation or you want

a nice car every couple of years and you

want to trade it in and you don't mind

that fact that it's not the best

financial choice then lease. That's how

I think of the buy the lease situation.

Then you also want to think about how

much can you reasonably afford as a

monthly payment when it comes to um the

proportion of your income that you're

spending towards it.

So what do you do you buy new cars or do

you

No, I actually at the moment it was more

economical for me to get a taxi

everywhere. So I don't have a car.

So you've run the numbers and thought

the amount I'm traveling away from home

makes more sense just to

get a taxi an Uber every time. Yeah. I'm

saving on the for me and

it makes sense for this point in my

life. It might be in 5 years, 10 years

time that I want a nicer car and I don't

want to restrain myself from having it.

But for now with the numbers, I can use

that num that amount somewhere else.

What about other things we spend money

on? Where are the big sort of traps in

spending that that we haven't mentioned?

So we talked about cars, talked about

houses. What about uh iPhones and iPads

and technology?

I think there's traps in spending in

almost everything that we do that we

don't even see. going to a grocery shop,

which is a fundamental living cost for

everyone. You're fighting against

marketing to keep your money in your

pocket. You walk to a shop, a grocery

store, they have the eggs, the milk, the

bread right at the back, which makes you

walk through the the shop to get there.

They have the premium products eye

level,

the sweets for the kids at the kids eye

level. So these are also areas where you

don't even realize that you're

overspending because there's these

subliminal marketing messages around

you.

Mh.

So that's one area where people spend

where it's just like spending on the

necessities but not even realizing that

there's a way to

um save there.

So what you suggest going in going into

those supermarkets with a shopping list?

Yeah, I mean that's one way shop going

into going into the going into the

supermarkets with shopping list. Also

checking if you're shopping at the

cheapest supermarket near you. I mean,

shopping at M&S and Waitro is different

to shopping at Audi if that's where you

want to save your money and you're more

paycheck to paycheck and you're thinking

about where where to save your money.

Other areas where people overspend is

everything now can be bought as an

impulse buy. You could buy now pay

later. There's Apple Pay on your phone.

There's so many debt financing methods

that make you pay more. And so just

understanding

running this budget, running these

numbers, understanding what you actually

have available to spend towards these

things is a really good way of fighting

against everything else that is trying

to take your money away from you.

What about like iPhones and iPads and

stuff like that? Do you think people

should be getting new ones or

The way I think about this is the law of

diminishing returns. When you first get

something, there's a really big impact

on your happiness. When you first get

like an iPhone and you don't have an

iPhone, that's good. That's big. You're

like walking around your iPhone, this is

pretty cool. Then with every upgrade,

that diminishing return starts to

plateau.

It's not as exciting. So actually

thinking about, do I need the next

upgrade or is that something I could

pass up on? But always remembering that

the first time you buy something is

worth it. The upgrades after that, the

happiness doesn't increase as much.

And what about hair, nails,

dying your hair, and all those kinds of

things? Do you think people should be

trying to sacrifice those kinds of

things as well? Or

I'm not in this camp of trying to save

money on everything. I really do believe

that you should have a percentage that

you allocate towards the fun things in

your life and not being restrictive

about what it is that you love. If it is

getting your nails done, getting your

hair done, getting a new bag, go for it.

Enjoy it. as long as on the other side

that's not at the opportunity cost of

you in five years or you in 10 years

because you talk about this term

lifestyle inflation.

Yeah.

Which I've never heard before. What is

lifestyle inflation?

Lifestyle inflation is when as your

income increases, your spending also

increases in a way that you think might

be necessary, but actually they are all

necessities being hidden away as just

upgrades and luxuries. It's essentially

your spending rising at the same place

that your income is increasing. And what

you want to do to counteract lifestyle

inflation is you want to make sure that

your spending increases. Sure, you want

to treat yourself. You want to reward

yourself, but not at the same pace that

your income increases. You want to make

sure that the gap between your income

and your spending is getting wider as

you earn more money, not narrower.

What's the best way for someone to track

their money? Because there's lots of

figures here. Some people aren't

mathematically literate.

Yeah.

Um, many people don't want to be in

Excel documents. Are there simple tools

or an app that I could use to track my

spending and saving and income?

So many bank accounts nowadays have

categorized spending within them

and it will tell you what you're

spending and what you're spending on. So

if you are someone that even me, I don't

sit every single month and

track every single transaction, but I do

have a ballpark figure in my mind based

on my banking apps about what I'm

spending and where. And the key isn't,

oh, should I be allocating this much

here? I've over spent here. Oh, I spent

a little bit more on my trip than I

needed to. The key is, are you saving

10% minimum of your salary? Whatever you

decide to do with everything else,

that's up to you.

And when you think about it that way,

you think of this whole budgeting,

managing finances is a lot more freeing

than something that's restricting you.

If you're someone who doesn't want to

sit in the spreadsheets, spit in the

numbers, just think, what am I saving

and what am I spending? Am I sp saving

the right percentage? Cool. Doesn't

matter how I'm allocating the rest.

That's what I recommend for those

people.

Oh, they're like budget trackers that

are already built that I can use

because, you know, my bank might tell me

how much I'm spending, but it doesn't

necessarily

doesn't necessarily inform me in real

time of how much money I have left.

Yeah. I mean, I have a budget tracker

which actually tells you in real time.

It's not connected to your bank

accounts, but when you put your numbers

into it, it will tell you what you have

left to spend for the remaining of the

month.

And what is that? Is that an Excel

document?

It is an Excel document. Yeah.

Can I have your Excel document?

Yeah, sure. I

I'll link it below so people can use it

if they want to use it.

What about um money and love and how

these two worlds collide? Because I I

was speaking to Kevin Olri recently on

the show and he was telling me that one

of the reasons people end up in divorce

is because of financial insecurities and

pain and friction and arguments. Do you

get a lot of messages from people about

money, love, joint bank accounts and all

these kinds of things? I have a lot of

questions about from people asking

firstly how to

bring up the conversation of money and

secondly how to manage their finances

with a partner in a way that keeps the

autonomy but still makes it feel like

you have a shared life.

What are those big questions

when it comes to how to bring up a

conversation? Yeah, I guess with your

partner. This is really important

because the top two reasons why people

argue or why couples argue is money and

sex. And when it comes to money, it's

lack of transparency, lack of openness,

and lack of shared goals together.

And that's not to say, yeah, you should

go on a first date and ask someone what

their credit score or debt utilization

is. But it is to say having those

conversations, asking the right

questions in a way that can help you

understand someone else's money beliefs

in a way that can

help you create a financial life

together.

So, what should I be asking my partner?

I'm your partner. Okay.

What do you what do you say to me and

when do you say it?

I think there's levels of the questions

that you could ask someone. Mhm.

And if you're just getting to know

someone, you can ask them something

along the lines of if you found or if

you won 10,000 tomorrow, how would you

spend it?

Lamborghini.

That will tell you a lot about what they

value. So then that that automatically

tells you that they probably value

status.

If you say, "Oh, I'll probably save it."

If I said Lamborghini, I'm going to rent

a Lamborghini for for two months.

Yeah.

What should you then do about that? You

take that information and you understand

this is what the person values. Yeah.

Because money is just a symbol for what

the person values and if they if they

want to spend it on a Lamborghini that's

not to say you should then judge the way

they're spending but you take that

information you understand what do you

want to do with it. Is this

way of thinking something that you want

to have a life with?

Okay.

Is there is there a good answer to that

question? M

I think it comes down to understanding

because even if someone says I just want

to save

you might think okay this is great it's

stability security but you might be

someone who wants experiences you want

to spend on flights to take your friends

and family away around the world

so it's just about understanding how

your money values fit in with their

money values and are they completely in

conflict with each other or are they

actually do they marry up and can you

see yourselves creating a financial life

together because if someone's like oh

I'll spend all my money on

like status symbols and not save

anything and you're a saver, that is

going to be a cause for arguments.

Yeah. Especially if uh you get bad news

and things get tight. You know, someone

loses their job and then when things get

tight, you're really going to be focused

on the money or you have kids and you

know any sort of pressure on the budget.

Exactly. and like other questions and

that those kind of questions come down

further further down the line actually I

guess as well when it comes to financial

goal setting but I guess another

question you could ask someone is and it

comes back to what we spoke about at the

start of the podcast is where did your

beliefs about money come from

because so much of the way we think

about money is inherited through what we

saw our parents do what we saw during

our upbringings and it has an impact on

the way we are with money it might be

that we're an impulse spender as a

result of it might be that we see debt

in a certain way. It might be that we're

really frugal. But what that does is it

opens up a conversation of empathy and

compassion rather than judgment. And

that automatically can lead to more

conversations about okay, how do you

view debt? How can we manage our

finances

based on your views and my views and how

can we work together as a whole to make

this sustainable? And then the the next

question is when it comes to family and

kids and how you're going to manage your

finances there. That's when it comes to

like the third layer of questions where

you ask asking someone what does our

2year, 5year, 10 year goal look like?

And if we were to merge our finances

together, what would that look like?

Should we merge our finances together?

Nisha,

my straight answer to this is no. We

have very unique individual money

personalities and habits and we are

getting married later in life where

these personalities are really set in

stone.

And you know how they say opposites

attract in a relationship. The same goes

with money. Savers typically attract

spenders and spenders typically attract

savers.

So if you have a saver saving and then a

spender who's spending the savings,

that's going to be a cause for arguments

regardless of if there's financial

shortcomings. Mhm.

So, what I recommend is having a team

fund and then a Mi fund.

Team fund is for the grown-up adult

stuff, the joint expenses, mortgage,

rent, bills, council tax. And this isn't

50/50. You both pay into that

proportionate of your income. 90% of

your household income that you're

making. You pay 90% of the expenses.

You're bringing in 30% of the household

income. You're paying for 30% of the

expenses.

That's a team fund. And then you have

the MI fund. And this is for your own

individual personality to stay alive.

Your own money habits. No one else can

see the way you're spending here. If you

have a match addiction, go for it. If

you want to buy that nice watch, go for

it. You can do whatever you want. Spend

this money however you want. If you want

to save it, save it. But that way,

you're creating that

unity, but also having that autonomy.

And I think this is really, really

important for both parties, women and

men, but specifically for women. They

want to, you want them to have their

independent access to their finances.

And I've seen situations, I've spoken to

people who have merged their finances,

and

it's when the relationship has turned

sour unsafe. They haven't been able to

know what to do because they haven't had

the independent access to their money.

Do you think people should be getting

prenups?

Did you get You're married, aren't you?

I am. I think everyone has a prenup

whether you know it or not.

Prenups, you could either have your

own customized prenup.

Mhm. Or you could have what the state is

telling you as what's going to happen if

you decide to go your separate ways.

Depending on where you are, the prenup

holds different values. So some areas

might not look beyond what the couple

agree and they just say, "Okay, this is

what the couple's agreed. this is how

the finances are going to be split or

the assets are going to be split in the

UK and I'm not a divorce lawyer or

anything. I don't believe that the

prenup is fully legally binding.

Mhm.

So, it's useful to have in some

circumstances, but it's the courts will

still look past it and see what is fair

as a couple.

This term passive income is quite a

popular term.

What is passive income? The way I see

passive income, it's money that you do

not have to work

or to invest time in to make. And in all

honesty, I think the word passive income

gets thrown around a lot and people

forget that

the things that you do see that might be

passive income streams required a lot of

work upfront to start with. What are

some passive income ideas that you think

some people could pursue? Like the the

average person could potentially pursue

on top of their their 9 toive job?

I would go back to the easiest way for

someone to pursue passive income is

through investing

from like the S&P 500 and stuff like

that.

That is the easiest way if you want to.

Everything else and this is how I see

it. Everything else requires some level

of time or energy because you could

increase your income through a couple of

avenues if that's what you're looking to

do. You can, like we spoke about, ask

for a pay rise at work. You can, if

that's not available to you, set up side

businesses

to increase your income. And there's two

ways to do that. There's the tapand go

that I like to call it, and it's ways to

increase your income that you can do

immediately. This isn't passive. This is

things like putting a spare room on

Airbnb or um an dog walking or Ubering.

They require your time. M

for money, but they are immediate. The

downside is there is a cap to how much

you could earn because it's not leaning

into your unique advantages, your market

advantage, your unique selling points.

The other side is value and skill-based

income. And this is where you lean into

your individuality, your unique selling

point. You tap into your skills and you

create businesses around that that can

scale. The downside with that, even if

it is passive, say if you want to create

um content and then through that sell

products which you could then earn

passively with that kind of income

stream, there's always it always takes

longer to make that money. And there's a

time period where you are putting in

more time or even more money before you

start earning that. So when I talk about

passive income, that's when I say sure,

there are avenues for passive income,

but the easiest one that's accessible to

everyone is investing. Everything else

does require some upfront time or

energy.

Yeah. I was we obviously we were talking

before we started recording about

Standtore, which is a company I've

become a co-owner in, and that business

allows you to sell digital products

online. And we did this 30-day challenge

and I was looking through the results of

how much money people had made and also

how much how much of a following they

had because I think digital products are

really like interesting entrepreneurial

opportunity. And there was this one, I

was going through all of them yesterday

over in the studio and there was like so

many people, but there's this one that

stood in mind because she had a thousand

followers and she's helping women to get

control of binge eating and other sort

of eating disorders by selling like

digital products and information and

really like a community. She had like a

thousand followers or something. And in

the last 30 days, she's made4 or 5,000

doing that. She sold like 40 like

digital products and like basically PDFs

and stuff like that. I just thought this

is a massive untapped opportunity for

the vast majority of people who have

spent 10 years, 20 years in a career and

know something, have some kind of

expertise.

Yeah. Using what you've learning through

your day job and turning it into a

business on the side that can be

scalable.

Mhm.

Not necessarily through creating

content, which is what I think a lot of

people think that they need to do. Mhm.

Yeah.

I imagine like everybody knows something

and there's a demand now for people to

buy that expertise that you know if

especially if you've been in the working

world for like a couple of years.

Yeah. I'd say if you want to figure out

what it is that that expertise is for

you cuz sometimes we're sitting on a

mountain of knowledge but we don't even

know it until we kind of take a step

back and then look to see what that

thing is. Ask your friends what is it

that you'd come to me for advice on?

Because I know I have people in my life

who I go to for advice on specific areas

or if I want planning for an event, hey,

what should I do? How should I do this?

If I need help with Excel, hey, can you

help me with this formula? If I've got

back pain,

just a quick message or WhatsApp to

someone saying, hey, what can I do in

this situation? Find out what are people

coming to you for advice on. Mhm.

That kind of will give you a signal as

to what people want to know about you,

what people want to learn from you, and

see if there's a way to turn that into

an income stream.

I mean, it's very much what you did.

Yeah, it is exactly what I did. It's

turning the finance knowledge, which at

the time my tagline was sharing

everything I know and I'm learning along

the way to create a life that I love.

And it was me kind of doing it as an

online diary, sharing this is what I'm

learning, this is what I'm doing. And

then it ultimately ended up into

something that I do full-time.

And that's changed your life in a pretty

profound way.

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I'll put that on the screen. That's

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Talk to me about that journey. Was it um

was it faster than you expected? And was

it are you in a place that is higher

than you expected when you started?

You've done 151 videos on YouTube.

Yeah. And is it safe to say it's made

you millions?

Yeah.

I would never have thought I was in the

place that I am now

through sitting in my spare bedroom and

creating videos. Monday to Friday I'll

be going to work glitz and glamour

meeting clients. There was a kind of

allure to it. And then the weekends I'll

be spend spending in my spare bedroom

googling what's a-roll, what's B-roll,

how do I do color grading,

which are all terms in terms of editing

videos.

It's all terms of editing videos cuz

that's what I was doing on my weekends

and evenings

while you were still at work.

Yeah, I quit my day job just over two

years ago. And so for a very long time,

this was just a creative outlet for me

and I loved it. I found so much

interest in it, but my purpose for it

really grew as the channel grew. It grew

very quickly from 1,000 to 50,000 within

a few days and then 100,000 within a few

weeks of that. And as the channel grew,

I saw the comments that were coming in.

Hey, I've just invested in this for the

first time because of what you've said

here or I've just asked for a pay rise

at work because of this conversation.

And

when you see something like that come

through, there is no amount of money

that can be made through a day job that

beats that. There is nothing. What was

previously external fulfillment for me

turned into internal fulfillment. So, it

has been the best thing I've done, hands

down, and it is the thing that I would

continue to do, even if I wasn't making

money from it.

You made one video seven months ago

about

things you stop doing to waste your

evenings after work. The video is

titled, "Five things I did to stop

wasting my evenings after work."

Yeah.

Because I had to be really disciplined

with my time when I uh was working in

banking.

So, what is it what is the essence of

that video? Is it telling people to use

their their time as an asset more

effectively? And

so often we just are living in autopilot

mode. We don't even think about the time

that we're using and how we're using it.

We are just coming home after work and

turning on the TV and watching Netflix

and sinking into the couch because we've

done that the day before and the day

before and it's comfortable.

And the essence of that video is to say

there there's probably more out there.

If you're sitting there and you're in a

place where you're thinking, I don't

really like my job. I don't really like

what I'm doing. I'm not really happy. I

want to meet new people, but I'm not

doing that. Then this video is about

saying "Hey

come out that autopilot mode that you

might be in and you have hours maybe on

the weekend, maybe in the evening that

you can use to create a better life for

yourself."

It's almost like budgeting your time.

It is budgeting your time. Exactly. That

thinking about how you can spend each

hour in a way that brings you closer to

the version of the life that you want. I

think about that a lot because

ultimately our time is the center point

of our influence. Like it's the thing

that's going to determine our long-term

outcomes pretty much more than anything

else. Whether we spend it reading a book

that's going to educate us or learn how

to color grade for YouTube videos like

you did or whether we spend it, you

know, watching Love Island.

Yeah.

On the TV or something like in the same

way that that $100 is going to compound

at 10% a year in the S&P 500, that

choice is going to compound.

Like so let's play that out. So instead

of watching Love Island, I decide to

read that book you recommended about

money. And then that means that I make a

series of different decisions which

change the trajectory of several areas

of my life. I maybe stop spending as

much. I start budgeting a little bit. I

go and educate myself in a new skill.

And if you zoom out on that as a graph

over like 10, 20, 30 years, you're in an

entirely different position because you

used one hour differently 30 years ago,

but you'll like never see the return

because it's so compounding is so hard

to see. It's invisible

in the moment. But

yeah,

I really think about this a lot. I I try

and remind myself on a frequent basis

that like the actual currency I'm

spending is these these hours that I

have

and how intentional and wellplaced and

aligned they are to my long-term goals

is maybe maybe the most important thing.

And it's the most powerful thing that

you have.

Mhm.

Exactly.

What about your happiness? What is um

what makes you happy, Nisha?

The way I'm living right now, which is

doing what I'm doing for a living is

making me extremely happy. And it's the

happiest I've been since starting a

career in banking.

It comes back to finding a meaning in a

purpose in what you're doing. And to say

that I make money from

helping people get better with their

finances.

I don't think there there's stuff and

you can't get much better than that. I

don't think there's many jobs in life

that are more rewarding than giving back

in some way.

However that looks like for you through

your own skills, your own

expertise, your own unique selling

points.

I can't imagine a like a better place

for me myself to be in. And it's taken a

long time to get to that. But it's been

good. It's been a it's been a journey,

but it's it's been a good one.

AI is this, you know, the the topic of

the moment because it's just impacting

everything. It's impacting people's

ability to get jobs. It's impacting how

I'm hiring as a employer. It's impacting

how I do my creative work and even me as

a podcaster as well. I was wondering if

you what you're doing, how you're

thinking about AI.

I'm seeing more and more people leaning

into AI to get money tips and money

advice. Mhm.

And I think that's great because it's

everything's at the expertise. If you're

looking at what was available 20 years

ago versus what was available 5 years

ago versus what was available a year ago

to what is available now, there's so

much more information that is vastly

available at your fingertips for you to

learn financial literacy

and be prepared for it.

The thing that I'd always ask people to

remember is

don't forget the emotional side of money

because greed, fear, that all comes into

how you're managing your finances as

well.

Yeah. So, use AI, use it to your

advantage. I think it's brilliant and I

think you always need to lean into it.

Um, but there's a there's the human

component that can never be taken out of

the equation, especially when it comes

to money and finance.

Could I not just go on like chat GPT and

ask it to be my personal accountant

every month and tell it my situation,

tell it my goals, and then tell it to

give me advice every every day, week,

month on what I should be doing. I think

that would be a great starting point to

understand what do I need to do if I'm

absolutely clueless.

That's not to say cha cha GPT is always

correct. Um, as you probably know,

there's some errors in it. So, take it

with a pinch of salt. But if you're

starting from scratch, even saying,

"Hey, this is my income. This is my

spending. How do you recommend I budget?

Give me three or four ways to consider

it."

Yeah, that would be a a way for you to

take if that's a way for you to take

that next step, then I definitely think

that's a avenue to be explored.

Jack, you were telling me um the other

day that you're now using AI a lot for

financial support and advice.

Mhm.

What are you What are you doing? Um, so

I got like this prompt on on chat GPT

where I've I've asked it to be the

world's best financial adviser for me

and uh I screenshotted all my bank

statements and I every time I tell

people this they kind of went because

it's like a lot a window into your life

and I don't kind of know the GDPR or

whatever around it but it's been so

useful. So, I've screenshotted

everything on my bank statement, and

then it tells me how much I spend a

month, how much I can put into

investments and stuff. And I also

screenshotted this investment account I

had, and it told me that I was

overpaying on my investment account, and

that I should switch to another one

because the fees were better. And then

it was like, you

don't have enough in savings, so you

should stop investing and put your money

into savings.

gave me a advice on a savings account to

put it into with a high interest like 4%

interest and it's actually been

gamechanging because it's kind of a base

knowledge that I wouldn't have had an

understanding towards and I get very

excited when I listen to these podcasts

cuz I sit here and they tell you like

ones to invest in and I think it was a

particular guest we had on and she said

you should invest in this kind of stock

and I said like oh what do you think

about this stock and it was just like

don't be silly you're not this person

and it's just been really helpful for me

to kind of understand it's it's um

advice changes and adjusts.

Oh, was that Kathy Wood?

Yeah.

It was it was it Tesla?

Yeah.

Well, it told you to behave. It was like

behave yourself.

Cuz I asked it to be brutally honest

about all the advice it gave me. And I

was like, Kathy Wood had this advice.

Tell me tell me should I put in should I

put all my money into Tesla? And it was

like, look, you're not Kathy Wood. Like,

you don't have enough. It's kind of what

you said about um having emergency

funds. Yeah. It's like you don't have

enough in your emergency funds. Top that

up first. And that's like if you want to

invest in Tesla, we'll have another pot.

So the new one I've done trading 212.

Yeah.

And you can do pies. So I've got a safe

one

and a not so safe one and then a high

interest account.

That's really interesting, Jack, that

that that you've done that. And I think

that's that just shows the power of AI

now. And there's two really interesting

things that I picked up on then. first

is that it's very tailored based on you

which with AI it's probably understood

who you are as a person from the

information that you fed to it your risk

profile your amounts the bank statement

had your savings and from that it

derived a profile and gave you the

correct information based on

your current situation

and the second thing that probably

doesn't get mentioned in maybe podcasts

that you've done so far, Stephen, is the

the savings, the putting it into a high

interest savings account. It's a very

easy basic personal finance tips that

actually do make a difference when it

comes to habits, but also it's easy.

That's passive income for you, but it

would get missed out on a lot of the

advice if you're watching a specific

investing focused YouTube video

or podcast. So, it just harnesses the

power of chat GPT. I don't know yet if

or I don't know if we have any

information about how much information

we can actually feed into chat GPT and

where that goes but it sounds like it's

just you've given it the underlying

framework or this is my current

situation and it's given you the correct

um initial guidance at least and then

you've been able to say okay that makes

sense for me or no I'm not going to

listen to this.

Yeah I think the the I keep asking it

like am I on track and it changes its

advice. So although it's been really

good initially, I think I'm now with

that base knowledge just going to go and

sort of and everything I've learned on

these podcasts as well, just kind of go

and run with it.

Yeah.

Yeah. And that's really important thing

because you know there's there's so much

information online when it comes to

money that you don't actually know who

to listen to and who to get advice from

and who to trust because you could be

scrolling through Tik Tok and the first

video you see is put all your money into

Tesla or crypto or one asset or you

could see another one that says, "Oh,

stop buying lattes so otherwise you'll

die broke." And then the next video

might be mine and you might think, "Oh,

the last two people just told me BS. Why

should I listen to this person?

And so finding a person who

whose principles and philosophy align

with your way of thinking is a way that

will keep you motivated and inspired to

want to keep getting better with

finances. And so you've probably got

that information from chat GPT and it

said to you, hey, based on your profile,

this is what's important. And you've

kind of leaned into the leaned into that

and thought, this is right for me.

Actually, this makes sense. and you've

probably actioned it. And so it's it's a

um fine line between finding someone who

you resonate with and also understanding

that their principles align with yours,

I would say to that.

And how much do you think about credit

scores? Because I absolutely butchered

my credit score before I even realized

it existed and my credit score was in

the bin. I I got uh two CCJs, which are

county court judgments, which is where

you really up

because I didn't know a thing about

money when I was 18, 19 years old, and

they gave me these credit cards and I

had overdraft and defaulted and didn't

pay them back and went to an ATM, put it

in, it didn't come back out.

Yeah.

Um and then I found out that I had

destroyed my credit rating before I knew

what it was. And I hear this quite a lot

from people. They don't understand the

importance of it or, you know,

you don't realize the importance of it

until you're looking to buy something

big.

Yeah. because that's what it impacts the

credit score. It two people can go into

a car showroom and choose the same car

and the amount they pay for it will be

completely different based on the

history.

Yeah.

The credit background and so there are

it is something that you need to think

about. It is something that you need to

make sure you're paying off in time in

full your credit card for instance. And

it is definitely one of the main things

or one of one of the things people

should always look at and consider. And

you can check your credit rating online

for free.

There are websites that do that and you

can check it just make sure all of your

details are correct. If there's any

anomalies, correct that. But most

importantly, just make sure and it

really comes down to are you paying the

things that are outstanding on time.

I think most people, especially younger

people, don't actually realize that they

have a credit score and that they can

check it right now for free. And they

also probably don't realize that things

like being registered to vote has an

impact on their credit rating. Cuz I

remember the first time I logged in to

check my credit score and I was like

45 and it said the reason why one of the

reasons why it's low is because you

haven't registered to vote. I was like

what the hell?

Yeah. You register to vote that that's

one of the things even something like

you could call up your credit card

company or your uh the company that you

have a debt at and say hey can you

increase the amount that I have

available. What that does is it reduces

your utilization when you're using debt.

And by just saying, okay, you have

instead of utilizing 50% of your credit

available, you're now using 20%.

What companies now see is, oh, okay,

then they're being sensible, they're not

really relying on this debt on their

day-to-day living. So, there's a couple

of things that you can take into

account, but even if you do, and again,

people don't realize this, even if you

do have interest rates because you're

not paying your debt off in time, you

can negotiate that. You can call up the

company and say, "Okay, this is the

interest rate I'm paying, but this is

what I have planned. This is how I plan

to pay off my debt, and I want to do it

over the next 12, 18 months. Can you

reduce or can you look at reducing my

interest rate?"

I have these personas here. There's

three of them. And I was wondering,

there are three different people at

three different stages of life. When you

think about the advice you'd give these

people, does it come back to this

framework, this 65, 20, 15 framework

really regardless of what stage they're

at?

You know what? Most things in finance do

come back to that framework, the 65,

2015 or even a variation for it. With

Andy, he's just started his job. He's

early on in his career. He's making less

now than he will in 10 years, 20 years

time. So it may not be that his paycheck

allows for 65% to go towards his rent

and his car, which is what he wants

something new of. It might be that it

might be 70 or 75%. But the key is,

especially at this stage, the most

important thing that he has going for

him is time. So save, invest early, do

it recurringly, which is often, and

harness the power of long-term growth is

what I'll say to Andy. When it comes to

the new phone, remember that there is a

trade-off for every decision you're

making. If it's not an absolute

necessity or an urgency, that can be

spent and the value of that maybe

thousands today can be worth

significantly more in 10 years or 20

years time.

Mhm.

So balance that together. Again, if

there's budget with his after he's put

down the money for his savings

investing, if he wants to spend that on

the fund, then go ahead.

With him though, do you think his risk

appetite should be a little bit higher?

Cuz I when I look at uh Andy here, he

looks like he's early 20s, maybe late

teens or something.

Yeah.

With him, I think you need to take risk.

You need to go work at an AI startup

because he wants to fill that bucket of

knowledge with like really high

yielding, relevant skill.

Yeah.

So, I don't know. I think of him. I go,

"Bro, roll the dice. You got nothing to

lose. You ain't got a mortgage yet. You

ain't got kids."

In your 20s, you can play the long-term

game. Absolutely. Everything feels like

it's urgent in your 20s. You feel like

you need the promotion. You feel like

you need to invest straight away. You

feel like you need the pay rise

immediately. But decades over dopamine

and he's got a long time and the the

things that he learns now, the things

that he invests in, the skills and the

risks that he take, he can bounce back

from that.

And even when it comes to investing,

actually, when you're in your 20s, you

can be more risk averse because you have

the upward trend of the market

that will see you through.

Mhm. So 20s is the time to take the

risk, take all the tiny experiments,

and just be a sponge where you absorb

everything.

Yeah, that's what I'll take.

What about Lisa in the middle, though?

Lisa is she's got a mortgage, she's got

an income, and she's got a good amount

of savings, and she is keen to start

investing, but she doesn't know where to

start. And this is where a lot of people

fall into. They have their savings

setting aside. Um, and this is she's

doing really well, someone like in

Lisa's position. But if anyone listening

to this is similar to Lisa's position,

it chances are they're not investing

because they are scared and fearful of

what to do and they don't know where to

start. So Lisa, I would say have your

emergency fund in place. Pay off any

debt. It doesn't look like you have any

debt. If your mortgage isn't over 8%,

you can make more from instead of paying

down your debt, you can make more

investing. So, you're great to start

wanting to invest. And I would say keep

it simple. Do it for the long term. Keep

it simple. You want to if especially if

you're just starting out, your emotions

and the behavior is going to play a key

part in your investing. So, 100% of your

portfolio, stick to index funds and

target date to retirement funds at the

moment. And then if you are ready as you

get more senior, you haven't increased

your income, then you can dip into other

assets should you want to.

And we've got Matt over there who's a

single parent earning about So Lisa was

earning roughly 140,000 a year. Yeah.

Matt's earning60,000 a year.

Over over 50% of his income is going

towards his rent. He has credit card

debt of 1,500. The first thing I would

say looking at someone in Matt's

position is if you've already saved for

your peace of mind fund, you the first

thing you want to do is pay off that

high interest rate debt. It is like

running with weights on your ankles. You

want to take them off so you can start

moving on to the next path of your

financial journey. So focus on paying

off that credit card debt. He wants to

increase income income sources but has

little time outside of work and being a

dad. So that says to me that he probably

doesn't have time or energy to spend on

trying to see if something's going to

work and see what comes out of it. He

wants to um make an immediate source of

income. So the easiest way to increase

your income is getting an increase in

your current job,

getting a pay rise, and if not switching

companies to see if you get a pay rise

that way. When I'm looking at my own

career, when I stayed at the same

organization, it was the increase was

between

3% 5% sometimes a bit higher if I got

promoted to 10%. And then when I

switched companies, it was always

between 20 and 30% when I moved. And I

know that is I I was in a lucky place

where I had the movement to get those

pay jumps and to get that salary

increase. And not everyone's in that

position. Um but if you have or if

you're in an industry which there is a

there is more path to earn more then I

would definitely say first and foremost

increase your income. You don't have to

put in any more time towards it given

you also have uh children to look after

as well.

If you've

stopped, if you've already exhausted

those two avenues, then the next thing

I'll say if you want an immediate income

is picking up income streams that

unfortunately might be tied to your

time, but they will have an immediate

impact on your income because that's

probably what you might be looking to do

because your rent and I'm guessing your

other living expenses are taking up a

lot of your take-home pay. So, you want

to find out that extra buffer to start

paying towards the debt that you have.

things like

so this could be things like uh selling

secondhand stuff online um selling

products online renting out a spare room

if you have that on Airbnb um things

that you don't actually need to put

capital in to make money straight away

from

are there things you never spend money

on

at this point in my life me specifically

I don't think I bought a designer

item in two years which is a lot for me

because I was dripped out in the

designer wear beforehand I've found

that my validation in life has come

through by work and through internally

and it took me on a journey to do that

and I just don't believe in

the premium prices that you pay for

promoting another product or a brand

if it's for utility. If you're buying a

branded item or a designer for utility,

i.e. this design or this brand

works better, then go for it. But if

you're doing it purely to show, then for

me at this point in my life, it's just a

no-go. I could spend that money in other

ways that brings me a lot more um

fulfillment in different ways.

Do you spend on fast fashion instead of

the luxury high-end stuff?

Oh, that's a good question. No, I don't

spend on fast fashion unless it's a

really urgent last minute buy and I

haven't found anything else. But I tend

to have a capsule wardrobe which means I

could play around. I spend

a good amount on quality pieces

and that's important to me. Quality

pieces I could use time and time again

and can switch in and out of. And I I

think for me when it comes to clothing,

it's more just okay

with work. It's what can remove the

decision- making for me.

What about books?

I think that is one area that I love

spending money on. There's an infinite

return. There really is. And actually

some of the breakthroughs I've had have

come from the books I've read. Even the

first book I read which was Rich Dad

Poor Dad that just that concept of

understanding assets versus liabilities.

Just knowing that from an early age can

start changing your thinking in a way

that you wouldn't be able to having a

normal conversation because the people

you hang around with, the people who you

spend time with, they have a massive

impact on where you end up. And I think

it's easy to say just hang out with

another crew or just hang out with a new

crowd that pushes you. But actually for

a lot of people, they don't have access

to that. And that's where books,

podcasts, YouTube videos, it almost has

that averaging effect of the five people

around you.

It mirrors that effect. So even if you

don't have access to the people who you

want to learn from by reading their

book, watching the videos, listening to

the podcasts, you can still gain that

knowledge and it's almost equivalent to

you sitting with them for an hour.

So you're saying people should

definitely subscribe?

Always

subliminal messaging.

You wear black a lot like me. Is that an

intentional choice? It started off

because when I was doing my YouTube

channel alongside working in banking, I

had to find every way possible to

eliminate any sort of decision- making

that will stop me from doing the thing.

Yeah.

And so it was a way for me to create a

system, not rely on motivation. So there

was about four outfits of black that I'd

always change from and it made my life a

lot easier. Now this has carried

through. It's been a lot of just it just

makes me think about things less. But

no, I do also wear other colors just as

much. It just happens to be that black

is 60% of my wardrobe.

Nisha, we have a closing tradition on

this podcast where the last guest leaves

a question for the next not knowing who

they're leaving it for. And the question

that's been left for you is who is the

one person that was slash is responsible

for the person that you are today and

the reason why you are sitting here?

It goes back to the person who when I

started my YouTube videos

and I got a lot of noise and a lot of

people saying, "Oh, like what is she

doing? Does this make sense?" The person

who really kept me going was my dad.

Yeah. He saw my videos and he said to

me, "What you're doing is so good for

the world. Your education is going to

help so many people. don't stop.

And I didn't.

So,

thanks, Dad, for believing me when there

was like nine or 10 views on my videos.

Wasn't expecting that.

It's crazy how someone just saying a few

words at the right moment can be so sort

of pivotal to your like trajectory.

Does he know how much he inspired all of

this?

I don't think he knows the extent to it.

I sent him like a message maybe a few

months ago

um telling him like, "Hey, remember that

day when I showed you my YouTube video

and it was just me in my dining room and

I couldn't even speak properly and it

was set up in a weird lighting and it

was getting nine or 10 views and you

said, "Don't stop. Keep passing this

education down." And I said to him, I

did send that message to him and said,

"I'm so glad you did that because I've

continued because of that." And we're

not really wordy with each other, but I

think he heard it. I don't know if he

knows the extent, but I think he'll be

happy to know the extent of it now.

You got the tissues, Jack.

Thank you.

Thanks. Yeah, I think we're good.

Who is the one person that was is

responsible for the person that you are

today and the reason why you're sitting

here now? And that is dad.

That is dad.

He must be pretty shocked to some

degree. Like no one could have imagined

and

your channel would be this big and you'd

be reaching this many people.

He didn't expect it. I didn't expect it.

I think he

believed that

for him he believed

that a job was security for us. I'm one

of three girls. I'm the middle sister.

And all he wanted was for us to get a

good job and be secure. And so whilst

this is beyond I could ever expect, when

I quit and I quit taking a big pay cut,

that was hard for him.

How big was the pay cut?

84%.

So you were on

220.

Yeah.

Which is about $300,000.

Yeah. And I was just about to get a a

six figure bon. So I left before a six

figure bonus. Just before the biggest

bonus of my career. I negotiated it. I

spent months negotiating it. And two

months before that six figure bonus

landed, I resigned.

Why didn't you just wait?

There's always going to be a carrot

waved in front of your face. And that

carrot's going to come in different

shapes sizes forms

and it's going to be a distraction to

keep you on the default path.

The carrot for me was that bonus

telling me, "Hey, just wait. Just wait

another two months and then wait another

year and another year and 5 years and 10

years and just wait till you're 60." And

I had this once in a-lifetime

opportunity

that was just exploding on the side.

And with it came all these people

saying, "Hey, I'm so thankful for all of

this." And I was getting DMs from people

just pouring their life story to me.

And there is no monetary value that

beats that. There really isn't. And so I

like took a step back. I ran my numbers.

It was 84% pay cut. I thought it still

covers my mortgage. It covers my like

basic living expenses.

The biggest risk isn't quitting my job.

The biggest risk is letting this once in

a lifetime opportunity pass me by and

never knowing where that path could have

taken me. That was the biggest risk. And

the hardest part was actually just

letting go of the identity that I

wrapped myself in.

Yeah.

What was identity?

I

my title was my identity. I'd worked in

banking for nine years and I could sit

at a dinner table, cling on to my title,

say I worked in finance and feel

externally validated.

And so that move to quit at the time

that I did from a career, a corporate

career which I've worked so hard for,

it's

like it's what I wanted for so long. and

then just let go of that and say

I'm letting go of that identity. It took

so much reframing in my mind and so much

mind work and so many things I had to do

to make myself feel comfortable to say

okay I'm not letting anything else

dictate the way my life goes from here.

It was a lot of work. And I would say if

anyone else is listening to this

thinking,

I'm in a place where

I'm unhappy. I really want to do

something new, but I'm scared and I

don't know what other people are going

to say and

what's society going to say if I quit or

take this other path.

I could say the things that I did that

really helped me.

And the first is

spend more time on

the path that you want to go down than

around the people that are telling you

otherwise.

Because so often we're half in half out.

We're interested in something but we're

not obsessed with it. And when you're

interested, you just kind of just do

whatever needs to be done. But when

you're obsessed,

you're going to do whatever it takes.

And this applies to anything to

changing your career to being a parent

to being an entrepreneur.

Become obsessed with that thing that you

want to do cuz that will give you the

courage to make the hard decisions when

they come.

The second thing,

and I think I made a video on this too,

I I wrote down on my phone on on an

Apple notes,

and I wrote down all the things people

were saying to me, the external noise.

And underneath it, I had what my inner

voice was saying.

And it's really easy when your inner

voice isn't loud for it to be diluted by

what everyone else around you is saying.

that at that point if anyone said

anything or if anyone is saying anything

to plant seeds of doubt in your head

look at what your inner voice is saying

read it repeat it let that be louder

than anything else that is happening

around you

and what was the external voices saying

well when my channel started picking up

it was

being shared into um WhatsApp groups of

people I know and friends of friends and

friends and friends and it was just,

you know, when you're just starting

something new and someone is breaking

barriers, it's just trying to

pull them back.

Pull them back a little bit. This isn't

you.

Mocking them subtly.

Yeah. Why are you saying your numbers

online? What are you doing? Lol. And

you've just got to remember the reason

why I'm saying my numbers online. That

is hard to do. It's hard to sit there

and say this is my salary over 9 years.

It's hard to do that. But I I remind

myself it's to be transparent. It's to

help people make the decisions that help

them with money.

It's the same reason why I came back and

said, "I want to say this because it's

the transparency."

And I think the third thing

I think everyone should like kind of

take into account when

they're making um Hold on, give me a

second.

Where's where's this emotion coming

from? It's very deep inside you.

There was a lot of pain

during my career

and I felt really trapped at times but I

don't know how to escape

but also cuz I know a lot of people are

probably hearing this and thinking I'm

also in that place

and so I really feel like my purpose is

to help as many people to go from

feeling trapped to

freeing themselves and using money to do

that. And so I guess that's why I'm

feeling like

it's bringing it all out because this is

just alignment for me.

And it's just like bringing back the

memories of what where I was at that

time and what I had to do to

like just take that cup because at the

end of the day, no one else has to deal

with your

with the decisions you make in life more

than you. They have to deal with maybe

the consequence of a moment. But only

you have to deal with the consequences

of all the decisions that you make in

life. Only you have to go to a job and

whe a company that you don't want to

work in. Only you have to live that day.

Only you have to

be with a partner if that's the reason

you chose. If if you chose because

everyone else is saying it, only you

have to do that. Only you have to grow

old with the memories of what could

have, should have, would have been

and live with the what if. And that's

why I I guess there's so many people

that I know and that probably listening

to this that know deep down there's

something more out there. And I just

want to if anything give them the

courage to say

take that risk. It's usually a

calculated risk. And if it's to do with

your money and finances, spend some

time, make sure you have your emergency

fund or whatever it is that's needed,

but align your money to match your life

decisions

cuz it can really be freeing.

Have you spoken much about the pain?

Why?

It's my content is personal finance.

It's not really about me. It's about

personal finance. I'm just trying to

educate people. Um, yeah,

I didn't

I probably wouldn't have spoken about it

here if you didn't ask me the question

about

where it's come from. It's taking me

back to the start. And sometimes you go

into a journey and you get tunnel vision

and you forget why you did it and you

forget why you started. And

you forget all the people that helped

you on that journey. And there was a lot

of people that helped me and at

different points.

My partner, my mom, my dad, my sisters,

like they've all helped me at different

points. And the people I learned from,

my mentors, like it's just all

a reminder as to

how it started and how different things

have lined up.

What was the hardest day when you look

back through that transition that you've

been on? What was was there a hardest

day, a hardest moment?

The hardest day was that morning when I

emailed my manager to get on a Zoom call

and I said, "I'm turning down that

bonus.

I'm leaving banking." That was the

hardest.

If I was a fly on the wall,

yeah.

What would I have seen that day?

You'd see

a girl in her late 20s

taking or saying no to a path that could

make money and that was very certain and

that followed the default path

to go to a path where she wasn't sure if

she was going to make money. She didn't

know how it would turn out, but she did

it because it meant so much to her and

she did it because she saw the impact

she was having.

And in her 10 years or nine years in

banking, she's never felt like she's had

that impact on individuals. It's been on

for corporates or for sovereigns. It's

never been for

specific people or day-to-day people who

need it.

And she did it and she didn't know where

it was going to lead her.

Is there an element of

being a first or second generation

immigrant that ties into this? Because I

hear so often when people come up to me

in the in the gym and you know their

their mother's African like my mother's

African and and I was born in Africa and

so my mother's Nigerian and put

tremendous weight on you know going to

university and becoming a success in the

eyes of the public and then I hear a lot

from sort of more Asian

first generation immigrants or second

generation immigrants that they feel you

know the doctor lawyer can't remember

what the third one was doctor lawyer

something

accountant I don't know

maybe finance

do you think that plays a role

into why you go down a certain path.

Yeah. In in terms of like if you're at

home and you're you have first

generation immigrant parents and they

see success as like one of three jobs,

it becomes harder to break out. Like

breaking out is basically makes you a

failure at home.

I think there's two things. I think it's

definitely that's a big part of it. but

also seeing what your parents did and

how hard they worked to get you onto a

path of security, which is a job, and

then saying, "Yeah, you worked really

hard and I'm throwing that away."

There's a lot of guilt that comes with

that.

Mhm.

So, I think it's I think it's both. I

think it's

Did you feel that guilt?

I did at the time. Massive guilt.

Massive guilt. I couldn't tell anyone

that I was quitting until after I quit.

The only person who knew was my then

boyfriend, now husband.

Your parents didn't know.

They didn't know till after I quit. I

couldn't tell them.

Why?

Cuz I knew that if they said something,

I might have just changed my decision.

And you think they would have said

something?

I don't know. But when I told them, they

supported it because they knew it was

also too late. I think they might have

just said, "Hey, this is secure." Well,

maybe there's something in that. Maybe

in those big decisions where, as you

say, you're going to deal with the

consequences yourself, both the upside

and the regret. Maybe consensus and

focus groups aren't needed in such a

moment when we should be tuning into the

voice inside. Because yeah, external

voices will just complicate those

things. But I also think, you know, I

say this to people a lot when they come

up to me and they say, "I'm in this

situation. I'm in finance. I'm working

in the city. I've got this dream of

being a violin player in Peru."

The first question I often ask them is

like, could you go back if you're wrong?

Because if you could go back if you're

wrong, then that's what we call a I

think it's a type one decision in

business, which is a door that is

reversible. And so many people spend one

year, 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20

years of their life stood in front of a

type one decision, a door that they

could walk back through if they're

wrong. And actually, it's just like such

a crazy shame not to make those type one

decisions at speed

if if it's reversible. And it's so crazy

because like 95% of the time when I ask

someone that question, they respond.

They said, "Yeah, I could go back to

investment banking if I was wrong."

Yeah.

I'm like, "Go do the violin thing then.

Go up, fail. It might work out,

whatever, but come back here if you're

if you can." So

yeah, you won't have that pain of what

if anymore.

The what if. Yeah. And I I remember

reading that study from Bon Bronny

Bronnyware.

Yeah.

Palative nurse who interviewed people on

their deathbeds. And it was um I think

the number one regret is not living the

life that I think I could have lived.

And I've always remembered that. I

thought, okay, so if it's reversible,

then maybe go through that door as fast

as you can. Nisha, thank you so much for

doing what you do. It's really um it's

really incredibly important. And I think

the very fact that your channel has been

so resonant and so far reaching speaks

to an unmet demand in people's

understanding of finance, but also

having a voice that they can very much

relate to that um simplifies, makes

things complicated things accessible,

but also just a human being that is um

relatable in many forms. your intentions

of why you're doing what you're doing

are so abundantly clear and I could see

that in the emotion. I could see that

you really really do care about other

people and actually your decision to

take a leap from the world of investment

banking which was much more secure and

high status in many people's eyes at

that moment in time was one also

inspired by the fact that you want to do

good for the world and that is exactly

what you're doing. So I highly recommend

everybody goes and checks out your

channel. and I'm going to link it below

um if they want to continue this

conversation because you make very

actionable, concise, clear videos on all

the subjects we've talked about, but

many more. Um and also to go follow you

on social media, which I'll also link

everywhere else. Um but I just want to

thank you for your time and hope

hopefully we can talk again soon when

you've uh written a book and the the

book comes out.

Thank you so much, Stephen. It's been a

pleasure.

This has always blown my mind a little

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Heat. Heat. N.

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