Nova Registry ramps up - DNW Podcast #576

Welcome to the Domain name wire podcast.

I'm your host Andrew Alman and this is episode number 576.

A year ago, Nova Registry, the company behind announced its plans to apply for 200 top level domain names in the round that opens this year. Today, Von Lie,

the general manager of Nova Registry, comes on the show to give an update about the company's plans. We have a wide-ranging conversation about running top level domains, how the 2026 round

will be different from last time, the policy behind web 3 integrations, and much more. Now, I have a lot of people

much more. Now, I have a lot of people on the show who are top level domain consultants, and they provide great information, but they also have a vested

interest in promoting their viewpoint to get new clients. Well, Van has nothing to sell you here, and I think it's great to get his perspective on what he expects, especially after his many years

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Let's run through some of the news in the domain business from the past week before we chat with Vaughan. First up,

GoDaddy announced earnings last week and Wall Street wasn't happy. GoDaddy has

been caught up in a hysteria over how AI will impact incumbent businesses. Many

of its tech peers have also been hammered recently, but GoDaddy stock has been on a decline for about a year, losing over half of its value. While

people are understandably concerned about how AI will impact their shareholdings, Godaddy has also been quick to embrace the technology and its business. The majority of its code is

business. The majority of its code is now written by AI and it's starting to use the technology more to handle support and sales. Escrow.com parent

freelancer limited also reported earnings last week. The dollar volume of transactions it has handled in its escrow business declined for the fourth straight year. Although demands

straight year. Although demands continued to be a strong point and Q4 showed uplift from the other quarters last year. Escrow.com hit record

last year. Escrow.com hit record profitability though thanks to increased fees. Top level domain company Radix

fees. Top level domain company Radix reported its second half of 2025 premium domain results and it was an incredible half for the company. It nearly doubled

the results from the second half of 2024 out of about 4,300 premium registrations. 1,075 were tech domains.

registrations. 1,075 were tech domains.

Fun was in second place and space in third. You can get a link to that full

third. You can get a link to that full report, read about some reverse domain name hijacking cases, and also read about my experience buying domains on Adam's wholesale market and more stories

at domainamewire.com.

at domainamewire.com.

So, go check that out. But now, let's chat with Von Lie.

My guest this week is Von Lie. He is the general manager of Nova Registry. Van,

welcome back to the show.

>> Hi, Andrew. A pleasure to be here. Thank

you. So about a year ago, I had Yoni Bellisovv on the show. Yoni is the uh the founder of Nova Registry and he was talking about Nova's plans to apply for

200 new top level domains in the rounded open this year. This was back I think this was when Seattle I can was going on actually when when that was published.

So I'm curious about 12 months later have your plans changed?

>> Not really.

>> Okay.

>> No real material change. We are still planning to apply for 200 TLDDS plus or minus. It may be a little bit over and

minus. It may be a little bit over and it it may be a little bit under but around 200 that's where we've we've pegged the number.

>> Okay. So I'm curious too you know one thing that both you and Yonyi have talked about is kind of your thesis here or your thesis on on kind of top level domains where the opportunity is. I

think that was mostly around hey it's not necessarily through the registar channel right this is through other types of of partnerships and distribution is that still your thinking

yeah well I think it's a combination to be honest I think that the established distribution channels so the regular registars do very well for our existing top level domain

>> link for those that aren't familiar >> yes link and we have high hopes for distribution of the new new tldds when they come online but as an adjunct to

that we have been very uh busy developing new channels to market forlink and that is where we we have created relationships with SAS platforms

platform providers that provide services that are highly relevant to link so for example you know linking bio link shorteners payment links and the like so

effectively what they do is they take us one step closer to the regist So by doing so the the actual names got

more typically has more meaning for us with link but those deals are augmented through domain resellers. So it's not it's not a direct relationship between

the registry and the SAS platform. We

augment those opportunities through reseller platforms. But that is very much part of our thinking that we think there are new untapped markets and

opportunities where TLDDs are highly relevant to a particular audience, a segment of the market, a user base,

where we can actually get traction a lot a lot quicker than we might otherwise do if we were just pedalling the TLD through the normal distribution channels. Because effectively what you

channels. Because effectively what you end up doing is you're competing with all of the existing TLDDs that's further going to get exacerbated post launch with new options available. So for us

it's about relevance making sure that those TLDs find their way to market through relevant channels and platform are highly relevant to the TLDS themselves. So give me an example of one

themselves. So give me an example of one of the kind of partnerships or distributions you have that's non-traditional right now with link. a

partnership that's non-traditional.

>> Well, I mean, not through the registar.

So, >> well, so if we looked at Ghost for example, so ghost.org is actually a uh platform. It's it's a website builder, but it's it's aimed at

professional journalists. I don't know

professional journalists. I don't know if you you've heard of >> Yeah, it's an alternative to uh to WordPress. Yes,

WordPress. Yes, >> it is. And so when we first met Ghost, John O Nolan who is the CEO at that particular point in time they were not

selling domains at all as part of their offering. We explained to John the

offering. We explained to John the business opportunity in terms of customer acquisition, how to migrate people from effectively a free plan to a

paid plan and how that can impact the stickiness of those customers and how it can positively impact lifetime value of that customer. So that not necessarily

that customer. So that not necessarily an obvious one because ghost isn't one that springs to mind for a lot of people but the way that we actually put that together was via entry. So yeah, I think

you've had Abe story on.

>> Yes. Yeah. They they help connect SAS make that connection between registars and SAS businesses so that you don't have to go tinker with your DNS settings at the registar but you can get set up.

>> Correct. The one thing that was there's a certain irony in this that the actual registar behind all of that is actually Squarespace domains. So you know a

Squarespace domains. So you know a website builder effectively Squarespace or their domains business is provi pro providing and powering the domains via

entry for ghost.org and everybody seems very happy with the setup. So that is actually quite a non-traditional way of doing things but everybody seems to like it and the customers like it. Uh the

platform partners like it it it's good.

It works well for >> talk to me a little bit you know you have experience with link and this has been a great kind of test bed for you obviously if you're going to ramp up to 200 names as far as the different

registars you just mentioned Squarespace. Is there kind of a

Squarespace. Is there kind of a difference for example in premium sales or something like that you know your your premium price domains between registars or or the kind of the quality

of the registration that sort of thing.

We are starting to see a bit of a trend emerge and we are seeing so first of all we've we've introduced some new premium

tiers. Our business is in transition,

tiers. Our business is in transition, right? So people might look at us from

right? So people might look at us from the outside and think, well, we're fairly lowcost domain. We're, you know, we're a good value at $7 wholesale. But

actually, our premium business is thriving. And our premium business is

thriving. And our premium business is thriving through some of of the well-known registars, people like NameCheep and Spaceship are doing particularly well, but also from a

reseller perspective. So folks like

reseller perspective. So folks like Cloudflare, Name.com and uh and Squarespace, you know, we and that's where we see a slight difference. So

where people are actually platform providers coming in and uh and so their their customers are typically uh more disposed to paying perhaps a slightly

higher increment for a name that they actually want. And because it fits their

actually want. And because it fits their business or their business model, then it it seems to work out, you know, very well for again for everybody concerned.

for us for the registar and for the customer >> you know if someone's using squares well Squarespace is kind of unique example because now they are kind of also a domain registar aside from their website

building but >> those two parts of their business are very distinct so people >> you know that's that is their primary focus >> I guess the point being you know if you go into Cloudflare you're probably

setting up a website if you register through them that that's changing a little bit too you know their at cost pricing and that sort of thing but the attach rates are maybe a little bit higher. If you're creating a website,

higher. If you're creating a website, you'd be willing to spend a little bit more for a domain. I think that it's not just a website. I think the attach rate is our platform. So clearly, you need a

website to host your platform. But I

think that is the nuance there that the people coming in through the API at Cloudflare are actually service providers as well. I think

>> Okay. Right. Got it.

>> That makes a key difference. One other

interesting thing you're doing with link saw some press release a while back about accepting a stable coin payment specifically was it USDC?

>> Yes, it was >> USDC from registries.

>> Correct.

>> So registars obviously have to pay you the registry every time someone registers a link domain name. What was

the thinking behind offering this as a payment method and has there been any uptake so far? So first of all just for clarity on that that actually uh right

now two cows do our billing for us.

They're our backend service RSP. So they

collect the money from the registars.

We wanted first mover advantage and so we are the first registry operator to be offering registars the option to pay in

USDC. And the reason that we went down

USDC. And the reason that we went down that route is is clearly Yanni has got certainly a significant investment and

interest in web 3 crypto and the like.

But what what we wanted to do was actually offer registars an option to pay in USDC. So it gave them some level of flexibility particularly in global

markets and and the interesting point from our perspective is USDC is pegged onetoone with the US dollar. So for

registars that are taking payments in USDC and other currencies then we just thought it was a logical on-ramp to provide that as an option. That's where

we're coming from and it it probably makes sense as it relates to the next round as well. So if if we're going to be applying for TLDDS that are relevant

to those kinds of markets then clearly we wanted to be able to offer that as a payment mechanism a settlement mechanism for registars. It doesn't change any of

for registars. It doesn't change any of the obligations that they have with us.

It's really only available to icon accredited registars that have existing registry agreements with link. But if

you're not first, you're always second.

And Yanni and I, we take great pride in trying to be first on a few things, right? Cuz we've basically built a

right? Cuz we've basically built a reputation for innovation and partnerships. That's what we're building

partnerships. That's what we're building the business on. and the decision to apply for the 200 TLDDS actually predated the acquisition

of Gotlink.

So we are effectively transitioning from a single TLD operator to a portfolio operator. And what we're really trying

operator. And what we're really trying to do is put the rails in place to support our future business plan and future business model. That's really

what it's all about. How do you scale that? How do you go from one to 200

that? How do you go from one to 200 here? I mean obviously you're you're

here? I mean obviously you're you're running the show here. You've been doing partnerships specifically for one top level domain. How how do you scale that

level domain. How how do you scale that as a business? It's a good question.

First of all, we need to prevail in our applications clearly and we already have a plan in place to uh to expand the team and to scale the team. That will hinge or focus on you know business

development deals where we've got new opportunities that that will allow us to scale. We have got internally we we have

scale. We have got internally we we have a sort of a a a code, a mantra, ethos, whatever you want to call it. So we're

committed to running our business with a a small number of highly competent people. So we're we're ready to expand.

people. So we're we're ready to expand.

We're ready to invest in in the business, but we're not going to scale it just by throwing warm bodies at it cuz we don't think that's particularly smart. So, it's a very careful,

smart. So, it's a very careful, carefully curated, wellthoughtout plan to bring in highquality individuals that can actually help us scale and support

the business. We're also looking at as

the business. We're also looking at as part of our application round, some of the work we're doing ourselves and and some of the work we're actually outsourcing to strategic service providers. It's just the way Yanni is,

providers. It's just the way Yanni is, right? So, he's he's bootstrapped his

right? So, he's he's bootstrapped his business. He's been very successful and

business. He's been very successful and as I often say to people, Yanni has not become successful by throwing his money around like a sailor on a Friday night.

He's a bit more thought out in the way he goes about things and and I think it's good discipline. So, we run a very tight ship. Link is has grown month over

tight ship. Link is has grown month over month, quarter over quarter, year over year. We turn a really healthy profit.

year. We turn a really healthy profit.

We declare dividends and and we give back to our shareholders. And and I think that's really good discipline. So

what we're really talking about is actually just scaling that same approach and and I think that we've had good practice at that.

>> Right. So ultimately it'll depend a lot on how many top level domains you end up running and and then kind of deciding from there but also not hiring ahead of the curve. It sounds like you're, you

the curve. It sounds like you're, you know, you have some consultants, some service providers helping with applications, things like that. And then

see how many come through because this round will be, there's a unique difference between this round and last time, right? And that is that last time

time, right? And that is that last time when more than one company applied for the same top level domain, most of the time that was resolved through private resolution. So essentially an auction

resolution. So essentially an auction where the losers got the profit. So

let's say there were five companies that went up to 20 million and each of the losers got about $5 million, right? So

they walked away happy. Person hopefully

who paid the 20 million walked away happy. But but you can't do that this

happy. But but you can't do that this time. So how do you think that will

time. So how do you think that will impact this round compared to the last round? Based on what I'm hearing, there

round? Based on what I'm hearing, there seems to be no shortage of appetite. So

there seems to be a significant appetite for people to come in and to make applications. I think the difference is

applications. I think the difference is that you really need to be you have to have a wellthought through plan in terms of your strategy. Which TLDS are you

going to apply for? How are you actually going to launch those TLDDS into the market? What do you think the price

market? What do you think the price point is on that? What do you think the total addressable market is for any particular TLD? And I and I think you're

particular TLD? And I and I think you're going to have to be really careful that you don't overpay in the auction because I think there's this misconception that

these names are going to fly off the shelves. We know from our experience

shelves. We know from our experience with uh with link it's a lot of work. So

the success that we're having today is basically a lag indicator of all of the work that we've put in previously. So if

you end up in a situation where you submit your application and you overpay for the top level domain at auction, you could end up in a situation where you're

mildly miffed that you've basically overpaid for the T.

>> I think everyone listening to this show has overpaid for a domain in an auction before and they've been like ah >> I mean there's nothing worse, right? you

end up being mildly miffed and and then basically what you're going to do is you're going to carry that that that legacy debt forward into your business.

Now, if you prevail in the application, you your initial contract period is 10 years, I think, with a an you know, an assumptive right of renewal if you do

things the right way. And the way that we're looking at it is this is a 10 to a 20 year play. So that we're factoring that into our calculations, but you're absolutely right. In the past, the

absolutely right. In the past, the losers ended up being the biggest winners because they bagged the cash and they um they didn't have the responsibility of launching and running

the TLDDS. And the guys that did prevail

the TLDDS. And the guys that did prevail in some instances were left to to try and figure it out and try and make work.

And it's hard. It's not it's not an easy business to be in, I can tell you.

>> And I I think we learned that last time, too. I mean, it's kind of funny to me.

too. I mean, it's kind of funny to me.

People having grand ambitions for each top level domain this year. this time.

You know, in 2012, I heard some pretty grandiose predictions and stuff that didn't pan out. So hopefully there's a little bit

out. So hopefully there's a little bit more of a reality check this time. I

also think, you know, last time some of the domains that sold for a lot of money, the people that bought them had made a lot of money losing other ones.

So they're kind of like not looking at it on a domain by domain basis, but saying, "Ah, I've got this funny money, if you will, here, you know, I can apply it to this one, which won't happen." And

I think that's going to have a significant impact, Andrew, on on how the auctions play out. So if if you're in contention, you're going to auction

as you know, a final uh final resort.

And depending on how much budget, because this isn't just about how much budget have you got to fund the application, >> that's just one part. Yeah,

>> that's just one part. You have to come with a budget. You have to be prepared to to participate in the auction. Then

you've got prioritization draw. Once you

get through that entire process and let's say you've got a war chest of I don't know, let's go 200 million just as for example. So you've got a war chest

for example. So you've got a war chest of 200 million and the first TLD that you're in auction for one particular TLD and there isn't there's an established baseline. Some of the TLDDS in the last

baseline. Some of the TLDDS in the last round went for tens of millions of dollars and I think dot shop went for what 40 plus million.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Somewhere around there.

>> So if if you turn up with 200 million, you're first in line in the auction and you spend 40 million. Well then you've only got 160, you know, you got 160 left and I think people are going to have to

be pretty well thought through in terms of okay, what are we going to do?

Obviously, you've got other wouldbe applicants who've already telegraphed to the market their intention to bid who have got financial significant financial

backing. It's public domain. The guys at

backing. It's public domain. The guys at Unstoppable, for example, you know, they they've got some financial backing and and they're going to take some beating in in auction. So, I think it's going to call it's going to it's going to drive

people to think very carefully about what they're doing. I had Matthew Gold, the founder or CEO of Unstoppable on recently and he was talking about he's tempering. He doesn't think especially

tempering. He doesn't think especially some of the web three names are worth what some people are going to pay for them. So, I think he's like, "Hey, we're

them. So, I think he's like, "Hey, we're going to be careful here, too. We need

to be, you know, we need to think about what the full opportunity is." Wouldn't

disagree. I like Matt very much, actually. The more the more I get to

actually. The more the more I get to talk to him, the more I like him. And I

think, you know, with a downturn in in crypto value recently, I think that that will have an impact. But I think I think one of the key one of the key messages for people who are thinking about

applying, if you're going to pay $227,000 to apply and you don't have enough to cover the auction fees for the the particular TLD that you're dead set on,

you're not going to get your 227 back.

So you you really careful in terms of of your strategy and how much you just go in eyes wide open is what I would say.

>> Well, there there's another thing to this this time that's a little bit different. Even though you can't resolve

different. Even though you can't resolve through private resolution, you can name a backup string that you'd like to go.

But there's some game theory there, too.

There's some thinking because someone else could have that as either as a primary or a secondary. Plus, in your case, if you're going after 200, each

application has to have its own backup, right? You can't you can't have a pool

right? You can't you can't have a pool of 200 backups, right?

>> Correct. So, you can't have a pool of 200. your your replacement string is

200. your your replacement string is tied to the application and importantly you cannot switch into contention.

So this is going to take some very careful consideration. It really is. So,

careful consideration. It really is. So,

your primary string and then postreveal, you've got a 14-day there is going to be a 14-day window where you can then exercise your right if you have actually

submitted an application with a replacement string to replace your primary pick with your secondary pick.

But the secondary pick must not then take you into into a contention set.

>> And is that contention also with if two secondary picks can you have contention there? I'm trying to remember. Yeah,

there? I'm trying to remember. Yeah,

>> if if you're in contention and if your second if your second if your replacement string is is already it's somebody else's primary, you can't switch into that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. On the So, that that adds something to it, too. Of course,

companies can they don't have to do a secondary one or or they can just ask for the majority of their money back anyway, but that's a pretty tight window, especially for you uh if you've

got a couple hundred here to make those decisions. So, I'm that will be an

decisions. So, I'm that will be an action-packed couple of weeks. It's

going to be an action-packed couple of weeks. And we've already made the

weeks. And we've already made the decision that we're actually going to gather together as a business unit, as a team. We're all going to be colllocated

team. We're all going to be colllocated and basically we're going to be open for business, right? We're going to that the

business, right? We're going to that the idea is we're going to be sat together and we're going to decide which strings are we going to continue with, which you

know, replacement strings. And so and during that window, we've got a a couple of other things that we're thinking about because part of this is is there

is a prohibition on dealing or or working with business partners. So I if you are planning to work with other people, whether that is some kind of strategic business partnership, joint

venture, or whatever, you can't do that post reveal. You're not allowed to do

post reveal. You're not allowed to do that. So we're busy actually having a

that. So we're busy actually having a lot of those conversations up upfront and in advance.

>> Sure. I mean there I'm sure well first of all you mentioned some people have said what they're applying for right so there's an opportunity to to work with companies there but there are some domains that you know people are going to apply for and they're they're

established players in a business that it might make sense to partner with or discuss ahead of time. Right. You you

can talk until reveal day. Is that

right?

>> That is my understanding. Yes.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, well, interesting.

That'll definitely be a unique aspect here. Plus the fact that all the

here. Plus the fact that all the auctions will be public. Uh,

>> well, actually, I think it's string confirmation day. Actually, I think it's

confirmation day. Actually, I think it's string confirmation day >> is is when you can't can't talk. Yeah.

Well, I'm sure whatever it is, you will abide by that.

>> We absolutely will.

>> It's a big guide book, right? So, I I shouldn't quiz you on little specific uh things here, but >> Well, no. And I think one of the other things that that we we have actually found a little frustrating is

everybody's become an expert with the advent of AI. So they load the applicant guide book into chat GPT or whatever their chosen, you know, preferred

platform is, but it still requires oversight. And I've I've been in several

oversight. And I've I've been in several meetings where I've I've basically said, listen, you know, we need to go back to that the primary the the authentic source of information is the applicant

guide book. And I is great, but I also

guide book. And I is great, but I also think that there's an inherent danger where people get, I would say, a bit sloppy and a bit over reliant on technology and and occasionally trot out

the wrong answers. And given that this is not anybody else's money we're playing with other than Yanni. So it's

not institutional cash. I actually feel a great burden of responsibility.

Andrew, I really do. That I'm playing with with Yanni's money. It it's

generational wealth. And so we we've been in the planning phase now for well over 18 months or more in actual fact because we can't afford to get it wrong.

>> So we've touched on web 3 quite a bit.

>> Yep. I know some domains have come out from the previous round that have web 3 capabilities added on in some way.

What's your thinking of this? How do you think this progresses in the next round?

And do you think there are any potential kind of hiccups with this?

>> Good question. We've got our own position on this as Nova Registry and I think you and I have have sort of skated around this subject a time or two in various locations, Miami and and

whatnot. So I think what this really

whatnot. So I think what this really speaks to, Andrew, is responsibly bridging

the authority DNS to public ledgers. And

a question was raised at the ICAM meeting in Dublin and it was actually posed to the uh the CEO of ICAN. And the

question was, do you think that these web three implementations should be subject to an REP?

>> RSP being the uh registry services evaluation policy. So whenever a

evaluation policy. So whenever a registry wants to kind of introduce a new feature, they have to file that.

>> Correct.

>> Correct. So for example the blocking technologies that are in the market have filed an RAP and the question was asked

do you think that these web web3 type technologies should have filed an RP or registry operators that are supporting this type of technology and and the answer back was yes we believe they they

should have done and given that we have got a vested interest in applying for TLDDS that could be web 3 or cryptoreated in the next round. We would

like to see a world whereby there there is some kind of common standard adopted in terms of how is this

all put together and for us this is really more about policy considerations.

So we're talking about domain life cycle management. So when a name is is active,

management. So when a name is is active, what happens when it expires? And and I think it comes down to being a responsible operator. I genuinely do.

responsible operator. I genuinely do.

And so I I think that there are some solutions in the market that haven't really given too much thought towards this. They they don't think about domain

this. They they don't think about domain life cycle management. They don't think about rights protection mechanisms. And I think that by doing what they've

done that they actually do run the risk of of under you know undermining the stability of the DNS. Now that's not a world that we want to live in given that

we're about to spend I don't know $40 million in in application fees. Nova

registry are going to be filing an RAP and the RAP is going to be about responsibly bridging the authority DNS to public ledgers.

>> That's exact.

>> So you're going to file this for link to to see what the response is essentially.

>> I think we need to >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And that that that needs to involve community engagement. So it needs to

community engagement. So it needs to involve the folks over at ICAN, ESAC, IETF, and I think it's it's the only responsible thing to do because

otherwise we could end up in a situation where we we invest $15 million in application fees for TLDS that may end up not having as much value as as we

might think they would. As you put it, is there a bump in the road? And there

could very well be. So we'd like to know what that bump looks like. And having

socialized this idea with several large registry operators and sever several large registars there seems to be an overwhelming sense of support because

people are saying yeah we it's the elephant in the room it's not being addressed and >> right >> well and it's still I mean I I don't think there's been any enforcement action from I can even post London right.

>> Nope.

>> Yeah. So you want to know before you put your money behind it, you know, as a company that you're going to be able to do what you want to do with these top level domains.

>> Correct. But do it in a responsible manner.

>> Sure. Sure. Yeah.

>> Not not flirting with the stability of the DNS and risking destabilization because we don't think we're, you know, we we're a responsible registry operator. We take great pride in that

operator. We take great pride in that actually, Andrew. Great pride in it.

actually, Andrew. Great pride in it.

We're trying to do things the right way.

And what we have been encouraged by our peer group act who are cheering us on saying we can get behind this. We love

what you're doing in terms of business development trying to expand the name space the way that you go about your business and and we can we can totally understand why you would take this

approach and yes we can get behind it and endorse it. So we do have people that are lining up to get behind this approach. Do you have enough time to get

approach. Do you have enough time to get the REP response back? I like I don't know how you know before applications >> based on icon policy. Yes.

>> Okay. Okay. Got it. Well, that'll be something to to watch for then and and watch it go through the process and I'll be curious what happens there because like you said it can have a pretty big impact on which domains people select.

>> Um and frankly the overall number of applications to some extent that people file. So

file. So >> absolutely.

>> So another thing that's different this time around is you kind of go in with your registry service provider in your application. So you pick them and they

application. So you pick them and they have to be certified by Ian. They

published the original list I think at some point in January. There's still

some trickling in. What do you think about this process here? How is it shaping up?

>> Well, I think they've had a few technical glitches along the way. I know

that from talking to uh to quite a few of the RSPs.

>> RSP being registry service provider.

>> Yes. It's not been as smooth as it they would have hoped, but I think they're they're through the worst of it now. I

think it's a good thing because if you go back to the last round, I think the application process was a lot more complicated than it will be this time round because you're able as part of

your application is you can either designate the RSP that you're going to use or you can basically check a box and say that we are going to use an

authorized RSP. So a big component of

authorized RSP. So a big component of the evaluation processes has almost been >> frontloaded, right? It's been

frontloaded onto the RSPs. Yeah.

Now I can are actually going to open up the evaluation window again for anybody that wants to become an RSP in post

application window and pre-delegation.

So if you haven't made the window now you will have an opportunity if you want to apply to become an RSP and go through that process pre-delegation. But once

you start going through the evaluation process at ICAN, as I understand it, you as an applicant, you are going to have to designate which RSP you're going to be using.

>> So, so let me ask you, if you're applying for this many, are you going to go with a third party RSP or are you going to build your own RSP?

>> TBD, aspirationally, we do have aspirations of of owning our own infrastructure, but it's a non-trivial task. And so

there are a couple of elements to this is there's a balance between taking on the cost of building and supporting your own RSP because even if you are successful in prevailing the applications doesn't necessarily mean

they're all going to get delegated at one time. Probably wouldn't want them to

one time. Probably wouldn't want them to either. You are actually running core

either. You are actually running core infrastructure. You really are. So it's

infrastructure. You really are. So it's

it this is you know say it's a non-trivial task to my mind. There are a handful of providers in the market. I'm

sure some of your listeners will go there's more than a handful. Yeah, but

there is a list. But from our perspective, as a business that is is intending to run, I don't know, anywhere

between 50 150 TLDDS, we need to have industrial strength platforms including and not limited to, you know, the tooling, the uh the administration

capabilities, the reporting capabilities on these platforms. I've actually looked at a lot of them and we've boiled it

down to a list of a handful, half a dozen that that meet the requirements.

Some meet it better than others. And

then it then becomes a function of price.

>> And the price I imagine will be significantly less this time than in 2012.

>> What in terms of a a a cost per create and renew or Yeah.

>> I'm not too sure really. Okay. I'm not

too sure and I'll tell you for why because I think people are now starting to understand that this is critical infrastructure and if you want it done and done properly

you know that there's a cost associated with that because I also know what it looks like not to be done properly and that's not what you want if if you're operating >> so you're saying you don't want to go

necessarily with the lowest cost you know they always say like you know I think what was the anecdote about the guy in the spaceship you know one of the early spaceships saying, "Oh, I know that all the pieces on this went out to

the lowest bidder." You know, kind kind of thing. So, you you you want to make

of thing. So, you you you want to make sure that you have the the right solution, not necessarily the cheapest.

>> Correct. But and and aspirationally, we we would like to run our own RSP. Um

aspirationally, we are going to have our own registar. So, that's that's going to

own registar. So, that's that's going to happen. It's not going to put us in

happen. It's not going to put us in direct competition with >> a lot of registries have a registar at this point, right? So, and they've managed to walk that line.

>> Well, and I think if you're very honest with people and straightforward and and you you have clarity in your business dealings, that's a lot easier to uh to accomplish that because ultimately we

want we want to be the ultimate domain name registration authority for the TLDDS that we operate. So that means RSP

registry operator and we would like to have the option to facilitate an easy on-ramp for people to register names because given our chosen path of

developing parallel distribution channels that has not always been easy because the majority of registars are retail registars. So they're very much

retail registars. So they're very much storefront come search a name add a website builder email SSLert and the like but really what we're looking for

really APIdriven reseller type registar where we can we can interface with the platforms that we work with and provide

them an easy on-ramp and of course this is all also comes down to economics as well Andrew because if we are doing the business development work we're creating the relationship ships. We're we're

actually selling people on the idea of of selling custom domains. It It's quite disheartening when your friendly reseller partner says, "Well, we'd like

to make $2 per name." Well, that's good business if you've not invested in the business development cost. And if that opportunity scales to 100,000 names,

500,000 names times by $2, it soon becomes a big number very quickly. And

that just it just kills the it kills the opportunity in many respects. So for us it makes economic sense to to have that option available to us.

>> Do you think the choice of RSP will have a big impact on distribution too? Like

if if the RSP is already connected in the registars >> no doubt at all and we're buddies with our friends over at identity digital. I

think they've got that down.

>> Yeah they have a lot of distribution.

They have a lot of distribution. Right.

And then there are others who are not quite as well connected and and it's not because they don't have the physical connection. It's actually are these

connection. It's actually are these people visible and present do are they actively engaged with the registar community right so there's one thing actually oh well we've got we've

actually got the physical connection but do they have the relationship connection and I would say that the people who are probably the best at that at this

precise moment are the folks at Identity Digital and that's not to throw shade on any of the other folks because we like the folks at Nominette and you know we like the folks over at uh at team

internet you know that and we like our own provider two cows but the reality of it is ID are very geared up in that regard. Yeah, cuz you know we are

regard. Yeah, cuz you know we are looking at you know registars are going to be more selective this time and which domains they add and the easier you can make it for them the more likely they

will be to integrate >> and I think yes and and this was a something that I was going to raise with you a little earlier in the conversation there are some registars now who are

already telegraphing to registry operators that they're going to be charging on boarding fees per TLD And so what that actually means is, and this is

something that I actually raised with I can actually last year at the contracted parties summit in Hanoi. It's not

$227,000 to apply for a TLD. It's not

just the amount of money you may have to spend in the auction. Have you done your budget and forecast in terms of how much it's going to cost you to on board these

TLDs at certain registars? And the

numbers that are getting banded about are in the tens of thousands of dollars per TLD, right? And I'm I'm hearing numbers $50,000 for a TLDD. Now if you

look at somebody like us if we end up withund let's say we end up with a 100 TLDs and it's $50,000 per TLD to on

board at one registar that's a significant I would say tariff or tax to get very topical subject obviously but

it really is a tariff to get your product on the shelf and distributed and what am I actually getting in return for that and and that in part also speaks to

the rationale as a single TLD operator, it's very hard as a single TLD operator to get mind share and shelf space with some of these

registars. It would appear to be a

registars. It would appear to be a little easier if you're a portfolio operator and and so that's part of the rationale is is we basically need to put

some muscle mass on our business effectively by having more TLDDS, ideally ones that people want to buy, right? So this comes down to

right? So this comes down to >> Sure. Sure. If if register customers are

>> Sure. Sure. If if register customers are saying why can't I register this domain with you? That that could certainly sway

with you? That that could certainly sway things. Yeah.

things. Yeah.

>> Absolutely. So and that's why we're applying for high intent TLDs got a clear use case and and part of our

secret source is actually our ability to monetize these TLDs.

And >> what do you mean by that?

>> Well, our ability to leverage the value from the TLD. It wouldn't be secret source if I told you because then all the >> But you're teasing me here, Von. You're

teasing me.

>> Exactly.

>> It would be the not so secret source at that point, wouldn't it? But then people are going to have registars are going to have to make a decision. Are we going to take these TLDDs? If there's high intent

and demand and there's a clear use case, are we going to impose a tariff to on board this or not? Because we may in the end may say, well, it's not really worth it. We've we've got alternate

it. We've we've got alternate distribution channels that that can serve as equally if not better than than the existing and I you know I did raise

this with I can and and they said to me that they were not aware that that registars were planning to impose these kinds of fees.

>> Well I mean they already have on some of the latecomers right? I mean I I I've heard of several instances of registries paying to get integrated with registars.

So >> well and we've we've been there ourselves.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go.

Confirmation.

>> You already know what that looks.

>> Well, and then even if you get in, I know that some registars have kind of a bidding system to get, you know, it's kind of like Google Adwords to get shown, right, as a result.

>> Yeah. And and and ultimately, we don't think that the ROI on that is as good as it could be for a variety of reasons.

lack of traffic because ultimately and I understand the rationale behind these platforms where you're bidding for placement. They're actually in turn

placement. They're actually in turn relying on the customer to recognize something they want to buy and understand the value of that particular name. And that's made all the more

name. And that's made all the more difficult when that particular approach to doing business is then run in conjunction with rebates, discounts,

promotions. So you're paying for the

promotions. So you're paying for the privilege to promote a product that you're highly discounting. You know,

simple e economics is it's much harder to drive an ROI. And registry operators, even though we are somewhat competitive, we do talk to each other and the con the

consensus of opinion is that none of us are overjoyed with with the results that we're getting of. Oh, from those pay for placement kind of generally speaking,

nobody's getting a very good ROI. So

anybody in registar land listening to this that can really make that work I think you you've got a significant number of friends us included who'd be you know running towards you saying

please help us sell our domains the alternative doesn't work very well for people at the minute.

>> Yeah. Well, I know we're running a little a little long, but but I do want to talk about the a big elephant in the room that a lot of people are talking about, which is how artificial

intelligence is going to change the domain name industry. I'm curious what your thoughts are here just broadly.

Yeah, >> I think it's a good thing.

>> Okay, I genuinely do. I think artificial intelligence is good for domains and I also think artificial intelligence or domains are good for artificial intelligence. Okay.

intelligence. Okay.

>> And the reason that I say that, you can't really have one without the other.

That's the truth of the matter.

>> Well, and I guess there are multiple markets here too, right? There's a

question of how important, you know, I mean, you're obviously a big proponent of some non.com options, uh, because you'll be going after them. Will the

premium and the aftermarket be there for these big valuable names when agents are making decisions, for example, is is a question I have out there that I've seen people put out there. I believe that to

be that I believe that to be the case. I

suspect that the agents may be more capable of making a a more informed decision based on on larger data sets actually. And I think if you think about

actually. And I think if you think about it, the the the automation, you know, the ability to be a bit more creative in in your choices, I I think

it's a good thing. And I I think there's going to be mass adoption of domains as a result of AI where I was talking to somebody last week. I had a brief

meeting with a former colleague of mine who was telling me he was vibe coding. I

mean there's just no way 5 years ago you'd this he's not a vibe coder but with the advent of this type of technology he's able to create opportunity for himself very easily but

in domain name to get that idea online and and make it productive. You know,

I'll tell you, Von, like I I don't code.

I know basic HTML, but this past weekend, I built an app for creating some of the posts on domain name wire, not for writing them, but coming up with the data. And it's something I had done

the data. And it's something I had done manually for years, but to hire a coder, it would have taken a lot of time and 5 or $10,000. In 90 minutes, I built this

or $10,000. In 90 minutes, I built this app that will help me run the numbers on this. And again, I I can't code, you

this. And again, I I can't code, you know, so it is impressive what new opportunities are out there. It it's

almost the equivalent of opening up banking to the unbanked. Yeah.

>> If you think of it in that way, people that that were prohibited from entering the market because of the lack of of coding skills, that barrier has been

reduced dramatically. I would go on to

reduced dramatically. I would go on to say that I think the things that we need to be thinking about are abuse as it

relates to names being registered by Yes. Also, what can you do to mitigate

Yes. Also, what can you do to mitigate that risk? Right? So, if if you have a

that risk? Right? So, if if you have a runaway bot, for example, registering a 100,000 names because now you've got ICAM fees that are incurred, registra,

registry, you've got RSP fees. It's

pretty easy to get up to a book per name just in hard costs alone. So if you got a rogue bot that goes off and registers 100,000 names, some somebody's going to

end up with a $100,000 bill somewhere split registry registra and an RSP. So

we've been thinking through how do you mitigate that risk? Abuse management's

definitely one. Preunded accounts is definitely another way. In other words, they've got a some kind of credit limit.

In other words, they can't if the account is only preunded, let's say $10,000, that's all the bot can spend.

So, going back to one of your earlier questions in you've managed to tease out of me one of our sort of little nuggets and plans. Why have we decided to be the

and plans. Why have we decided to be the first to to announce support of USDC?

That will become very important further down the line, right? because that's how the bots are going to basically take money from from preunded accounts

probably using that kind of currency. So

in answer to your question, do I think it's going to have a positive impact on the industry? Yes. I think it's going to

the industry? Yes. I think it's going to have positive impact for the masses, not just the lucky guy that owned AI.com or the lucky guy that owned bot.ai.

Yeah, I think this levels the playing field and I think it opens it up to a much wider audience. I really do.

>> All right. So, final question. You're

planning to apply for about a couple hundred. Obviously, we've talked about

hundred. Obviously, we've talked about some of the things that'll make a difference in how many end up applying for. I've heard of someone else applying

for. I've heard of someone else applying for 100. You've got dot brands. You've

for 100. You've got dot brands. You've

got all these portfolio players. You

think the round application wise will be about the same as last time? Couple

thousand.

>> I think so. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, that's the consensus I'm getting from most people. So, it'll

be interesting to see. This is going to be a fun year. busy year for you and uh it'll be a busy year for me following what everyone's doing. So, it'll be a lot of fun.

>> A real pleasure to uh to have the opportunity to share with you some of our thoughts and ideas. We hold domain name wire in very high regard. So, and

you individually.

>> All right. Well, thanks Van. That has

been a wrap on this week's domain name wire podcast. My guest has been Von Lie,

wire podcast. My guest has been Von Lie, general manager of Nova Registry. You

can listen to all previous episodes at dnw.com/mpodcast

dnw.com/mpodcast or on your favorite podcast app. Thanks

for listening.