Nvidia Buyer Megaspeed Faces Smuggling Probe | Bloomberg Tech 12/23/2025

>> "BLOOMBERG TECH" IS LIVE FROM COAST-TO-COAST.

WITH KEVIN CIRILLI CAROLINE HYDE IN NEW YORK.

AND ED LUDLOW IN SAN FRANCISCO. CAROLINE:

THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." SERVICE AGREES TO BUY STOCK OF AR ARMS IN $7.75 BILLION. NVIDIA AS BIGGEST SOUTHEAST ASIA BUYER FACE AS CHIP SMUGGLING PROBE DESPITE THE TECH GIANT’S INSINNANCE IT DOESN’T EXIST. CRYPTO’S BIG

YEAR THAT WASN’T A WIN FOR ALL. THE BILLIONAIRES HIT HARDEST BY RECENT PRICE DROPS.

WE CHECK IN ON THE MARKETS. 87.361.

ANOTHER ANNUAL LOSS FOR THE O.G. IN THE CRYPTO SPACE.

WE ARE SEEING RISK ON A LITTLE BIT ON THE NASDAQ 100.

HIGHER ON THE DAY AND MONTH AND BOY ARE WE HIGHER THAN THE YEAR, 20%. TODAY’S FIGURES THE U.S.

YEAR, 20%. TODAY’S FIGURES THE U.S.

EXPANDING AT 4.3% ANNUAL PACE. MAYBE EASING BACK ON RISK OF FEELING IF THE FED DOESN’T CUT AS MUCH AS ANTICIPATED.

THIS ECONOMY LOOKS LIKE IT’S DOING FINE.

TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE ANIMAL SPIRITS IN THE MARKET.

PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO M&A. LOOK AT SERVICE NOW.

TRADING LOWER ON THAT PARTICULAR STOCK. OFF BY 2.5%.

THEY ARE GOING TO USE CASH, DEBT, FOR THE BIGGEST ACQUISITION SO FAR. ALL ABOUT THE WORLD OF CYBER.

IT’S A STORY BLOOMBERG BROKE AHEAD OF THE FORMAL ANNOUNCEMENT. ANDREW MARTIN, IT WAS LAST WEEK

ANNOUNCEMENT. ANDREW MARTIN, IT WAS LAST WEEK YOU MADE CLEAR TO THE MARKET SERVICE NOW WAS LOOKING AT THIS PARTICULAR ACQUISITION. ANDREW: I THINK THEY ARE FOLLOWING A

PARTICULAR ACQUISITION. ANDREW: I THINK THEY ARE FOLLOWING A PATH THAT MICROSOFT AND GOOGLE HAVE ALREADY FOLLOWED WHICH IS COMBINING A PRICE OFF FOR PRODUCT AND OFFERING CYBER AS A BONUS.

MICROSOFT PERFECTED THIS IDEA OF HAVING A PACKAGE OF SOFTWARE OFFICIAL IN THE CLOUD.

AND BROUGHT CYBER. GOOGLE BOUGHT WIZ.

SERVICE NOW IS SAYING AS WE AUTOMATE -- AUTOMATE I.T.

AND PERSONNEL. THEY ARE OFFERING CYBER AS A BROADER PACKAGE. CAROLINE: THE SAFETY OF THAT IS CRUCIAL.

BROADER PACKAGE. CAROLINE: THE SAFETY OF THAT IS CRUCIAL.

TELL US ABOUT THE FOUNDING TEAM. ANDREW:

ARMUS IS INTERESTING. IT WAS STARTED BY ISRAELI VETERANS WHO WORKED IN ONE OF THE ELITE CYBER UNITS.

THEY CALL IT CYBER EXPOSURE MANAGEMENT.

IT’S BASICALLY LOOKING ACROSS YOUR WHOLE DIGITAL FOOTPRINT AND FINDING IN REAL TIME FLAWS AND VULNERABILITIES AND FIXING THEM QUICKLY. IT’S SOMETHING THAT’S REALLY

THEM QUICKLY. IT’S SOMETHING THAT’S REALLY LENDS ITSELF TO A.I. YOU COULD SEE THAT BEING AUTOMATED. THE COMPANY’S GROWN INCREDIBLY

AUTOMATED. THE COMPANY’S GROWN INCREDIBLY FAST. FOR A COMPANY THAT AUTOMATES PROCESSES, AUTOMATING

FAST. FOR A COMPANY THAT AUTOMATES PROCESSES, AUTOMATING CYBER MADE SENSE. CAROLINE: WHAT’S INTERESTING, THIS IS PART OF A THEME. THE FACT THE MEGADEAL OF THE YEAR WAS WIZ WITH ALPHABET R WE EXPECTING MORE AND MORE OF THESE PLATFORMS LOOKING TO BOLT ON CYBER ACQUISITION? ANDREW:

IT MAKES SENSE TO OFFER CYBER AS PART AFTER BROTDER PACKAGE -- BROADER PACKAGE. AMONG THE BIG CYBER PLAYERS, MICROSOFT BEING THE BIGGEST, GOOGLE, CROWD STRIKE, PALO AALTO, THEY ARE TRYING TO BUILD A BUNDLE THAT COULD ATTRACT USERS WITH ONE STOP SHOPPING. CAROLINE:

THAT WORD PLATFORMIZATION. ANDREW: HORRIBLE WORK. CAROLINE:

I LOVE T WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING ON ABOUT THE LATEST DEAL.

TURN OUR ATTENTION TO ANOTHER HUGE PIECE OF REPORTING BY BLOOMBERG. NVIDIA’S LARGEST BUYER IN

BLOOMBERG. NVIDIA’S LARGEST BUYER IN SOUTHEAST ASIA UNDER INVESTIGATION BY THE U.S.

GOVERNMENT OVER WHETHER IT SMUGGLED ADVANCED CHIPS INTO CHINA. SINGAPORE-BASED MEGASPEED IMPORTED AT LEAST $4.6 BILLION

CHINA. SINGAPORE-BASED MEGASPEED IMPORTED AT LEAST $4.6 BILLION WORTH OF HARDWARE THROUGH NOVEMBER SINCE ITS FOUNDING IN 2023. THE COMPANY WAS A SKEW SPINOFF

2023. THE COMPANY WAS A SKEW SPINOFF OF A CHINESE GAMING ENTERPRISE COULD BECOME A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WASHINGTON’S FEARS OF BEIJING GAINING ACCESS TO CHIPS FOR MILITARY USES. IT DENIES ANY WRONGDOING.

MILITARY USES. IT DENIES ANY WRONGDOING.

IT ABIDE BY ALL OPERATIONS. GET THE DETAILS WHAT WAS A LONG RUNNING INVESTIGATION. IAN KING. THE DEEP DIVE THE REPORTERS

RUNNING INVESTIGATION. IAN KING. THE DEEP DIVE THE REPORTERS HAVE DONE TO UNDERSTAND WHETHER WE REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW MANY G.P.U.’S ARE GOING TO MEGASPEED AND WHERE THEY ARE ENDING UP.

G.P.U.’S ARE GOING TO MEGASPEED AND WHERE THEY ARE ENDING UP.

IAN: LOOT OF EVIDENCE, IT’S -- A LOT OF EVIDENCE, IT’S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT, NVIDIA SAYS THERE IS NOTHING GOING ON HERE. MEGASPEED ITSELF SAYS THERE IS NOTHING GOING ON HERE. OUR COLLEAGUES’ REPORTING IS THAT THERE IS AN INVESTIGATION GOING ON.

SOUTHEAST ASIAN GOVERNMENTS AND ALSO WASHINGTON ARE LOOKING AT THIS. AND STILL TRYING TO FIND OUT

THIS. AND STILL TRYING TO FIND OUT WHETHER THERE HAS BEEN ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT GOING ON. CAROLINE:

FROM WHAT WE KNOW IT’S A SIGNIFICANTA PORE SPACE SOMEBODY. WHAT HAS HAD TO SPRING UP EVER

SOMEBODY. WHAT HAS HAD TO SPRING UP EVER SINCE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION BACK IN 2022 WAS A SOPHISTICATION FROM NVIDIA CHIPS TO CHINA.

SUDDENLY YOU SAW OTHER ASIAN COMPANIES BECOME REAL AREAS OF FOCUS FOR IMPORTING CHIPS SO CHINESE COMPANIES COULD DO THE COMPUTE OUTSIDE OF THEIR OWN COUNTRY, CORRECT? IAN:

THAT’S RIGHT. THERE IS NOTHING ILLEGAL WITH SETTING UP A DATA CENTER AND SERVING CHINESE CUSTOMERS PROVIDING THOSE CUSTOMERS DON’T HAVE LINKS WITH A BAD ENTITY IN THE U.S. -- BANNED ENTITY IN THE US US.

THE U.S. -- BANNED ENTITY IN THE US US.

WHETHER THAT’S THE MILITARY OR SOME COMPANY WHICH THE U.S.

GOVERNMENT HAS DECIDED CHINA’S MILITARY.

HOWEVER THERE IS A SUSPICION ABOUT THESE LINKS ABOUT WHO IS IN CONTROL OF WHAT. THIS IS THE PROBLEM THAT NVIDIA HAS TO FACE. NVIDIA, THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE, NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. AS YOU’LL SEE FROM OUR STORY THERE IS A LOT OF LINKS BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS IN CHINA.

THERE IS A LOT OF A LACK OF CLARITY IN THE RELATIONSHIPS.

I THINK EVERYBODY’S TRYING TO WORK THROUGH TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NOTHING UNTOWARD GOING ON. CAROLINE:

BLOOMBERG DIDN’T FIND EVIDENCE OF ANY MEGASPEED NVIDIA CHIPS BEING DIVERTED TO CHINA. THERE ARE ALL THESE INCONSISTENCIES IN MEGASPEED SOUTHEAST ASIA DEMAND AND CHIP AND ENTRY WHEREVER THEY END UP. WHAT’S INTERESTING IS THIS IS THE MOMENT WHERE MAYBE ACTUALLY NVIDIA WILL GET MORE ACCESS TO CHINA. H-200’S HAVE IN THEORY, ACCORDING TO TRUTH SOCIAL POST,

CHINA. H-200’S HAVE IN THEORY, ACCORDING TO TRUTH SOCIAL POST, ARE GOING BACK IN CHINA. THE QUESTION IS WHETHER CHINA WANTS THEM AND WHETHER MEGASPEED WILL HAVE CHINESE DEMAND GOING FORWARD IF WE SEE ACCESS ONCE AGAIN TO MAINLAND.

INA: AGAIN, WE ARE IN THAT TRANSITION PERIOD WHERE WE’LL TRY TO FIND OUT HOW THIS WILL PLAY OUT.

NVIDIA WANTS TO DO BUSINESS DIRECTLY IN CHINA THAT’S TRUE.

AT THE MOMENT IT CANNOT DO THAT BECAUSE OF THESE RESTRICTIONS.

WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO FIND OUT IS WHETHER THE CHINESE WANT TO DO BUSINESS DIRECTLY WITH NVIDIA.

IF THAT’S THE CASE, WHAT LEVEL OF DEMAND THAT WILL BE THERE?

NVIDIA HAS HAD A GOOD YEAR IN WASHINGTON.

IT’S GONE FROM REALLY RESTRICTIVE RULES TO FREEING UP OF SOME OF THEM. AGAIN THAT HAS TO TRANSLATE INTO SHIPMENTS INTO THAT CHINESE MARKET.

AND WE HAVEN’T SEEN THAT YET. WE DON’T KNOW THAT THAT WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN. CLEARLY STORIES LIKE THIS THAT

ACTUALLY HAPPEN. CLEARLY STORIES LIKE THIS THAT THERE ARE SUSPICIONS ABOUT SMUGGLING THAT WE PERHAPS SHOULD BE MORE SECURE, MORE CAREFUL IN HOW WE DEAL WITH CHINA AND CHINESE ENTITIES DON’T HELP THAT CASE.

AGAIN THERE IS A LOT AT STAKE HERE. WE NEED A LOT MORE CLARITY ABOUT THE DETAILS HOW THIS WILL WORK OUT. CAROLINE:

IT’S A VERY THOROUGH, INCREDIBLY COMPLEX STORY.

YOU BROKE IT DOWN PERFECTLY FOR US. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

READ MORE ABOUT THE NVIDIA SUPPLIER ON YOUR TERMINAL OR ONLINE. TALK MORE ABOUT CHIP AND TRADE

ONLINE. TALK MORE ABOUT CHIP AND TRADE NEWS. THE U.S. HAS ACCUSED CHINA OF ENGAGING

NEWS. THE U.S. HAS ACCUSED CHINA OF ENGAGING IN UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES IN THE SEMICONDUCTOR SECTOR.

WASHINGTON WON’T PLACE ADDITIONAL TARIFFS UNTIL 2027.

WASHINGTON DID NOT IMMEDIATELY RESPOND.

GET DETAILS FROM JORDAN FABIAN. THE U.S.T.R., OFFICE OF U.S.

TRADE REPRESENTATIVE, LOOK, WHAT THEY ARE DOING ISN’T FAIR.

>> EXACTLY. IT’S AN INTERESTING DEVELOPMENT.

THIS INVESTIGATION ACTUALLY STARTED UNDER THE ADMINISTRATION OF FORMER PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN, WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT DONALD TRUMP, WHO TALKED TOUGH ON CHINA DURING THE CAMPAIGN, WOULD FOLLOW UP ON IT WHEN HE BECAME PRESIDENT. IN THE INTERIM HE STARTED A

PRESIDENT. IN THE INTERIM HE STARTED A TRADE WAR WITH CHINA. HE THEN STRUCK A DEAL WITH XI TO TAKE OFF THOSE TARIFFS. THE U.S.

RIGHT NOW IF YOU LISTEN TO WHAT JAMISON GREER, THE TRADE REPRESENTATIVE HAS SAID, OTHER SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS THEY WANT A STABLE RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA ON TRADE.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO LOOK TO HIKE TARIFFS AT THE CURRENT MOMENT. WHICH IS WHY YOU HAVE THIS ODD

MOMENT. WHICH IS WHY YOU HAVE THIS ODD OUTCOME OF AN INVESTIGATION SAYING THE OBVIOUS WHICH IS THAT CHINA IS USING NONMARKET PRACTICES TO DOMINATE THE CHIP INDUSTRY. AT THE SAME TIME THE U.S.

INDUSTRY. AT THE SAME TIME THE U.S.

ISN’T GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

AT LEAST FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. CAROLINE:

LEGALLY REQUIRED TO PUBLISH THE OUTCOME OF THE INVESTIGATION, THE 301 INVESTIGATION. BUT WHAT ACTUALLY IS BEING THOUGHT OF THAT CHINA IS UP TO IN TERMS OF UNFAIRLY SUPPORTING ITS INDUSTRY? THEY SAY CHINA’S TARGETING THE

ITS INDUSTRY? THEY SAY CHINA’S TARGETING THE SEMICONDUCTOR INDUSTRY. IS UNREASONABLE AND BURDENS OR

SEMICONDUCTOR INDUSTRY. IS UNREASONABLE AND BURDENS OR RESTRICTS U.S. COMMERCE. THUS IS ACTIONABLE.

RESTRICTS U.S. COMMERCE. THUS IS ACTIONABLE.

WHAT ARE THEY BEING TOLD? JORDAN:

THEY ARE BEING ACCUSED OF USING NONMARKET PRACTICES TO BOLSTER THEIR DOMESTIC INDUSTRY. SELL THOSE CHIPS AT PERHAPS BELOW MARKET RATES INTO VARIOUS COUNTRIES TO GET THEM HOOKED ON THE CHINESE TECHNOLOGY STACK. AND THEREBY INCREASING THE MARKET SHARE OF THEIR CHIP INDUSTRY.

THE IRONY IS THAT THE U.S. IS PRETTY MUCH TRYING TO DO THE SAME THING, WHICH IS BASICALLY DOING A TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT DEAL WITH COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD SAYING YOU NEED TO USE THE U.S. TECH STACK. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE COUNTRIES

THE U.S. TECH STACK. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE COUNTRIES ARE NOT ON THE CHINESE TECH STACK. AND HAVE BEEN FOR A WHILE TRYING TO LIMIT EXPORTS TO CHINA, TO OTHER COUNTRIES THAT ARE DEEMED UNFRIENDLY AND ALSO CRACK DOWN ON THE CHINESE MARKET. THEY ARE SAYING ESSENTIALLY

MARKET. THEY ARE SAYING ESSENTIALLY CHINA CAN’T TRY TO DOMINATE THE MARKET.

WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO DOMINATE THE MARKET.

RIGHT NOW THEY ARE, AGAIN, GOING TO STAND OFF OR HOLD BACK ON INCREASING TARIFFS FURTHER ON CHINESE CHIPS.

TO ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM. CAROLINE:

COMPLEX TRADE WEAR, JORDAN, THANKS SO MUCH.

WE APPRECIATE YOU. MEANWHILE, COMING UP, LARRY ELLISON, HIS BIG BET ON PARAMOUNT THAT ALTER HIS VAST ORACLE FORTUNE. THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH."

ORACLE FORTUNE. THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH."

CAROLINE: LARRY ELLISON, NO STRANGER TO BOLD BETS. HIS BIGGEST YET MAY BE IN MEDIA.

BOLD BETS. HIS BIGGEST YET MAY BE IN MEDIA.

POTENTIAL PERSONAL GUARANTEE. $40 BILLION TO BACKSTOP PARAMOUNT’S ALL CASH BID FOR WARNER BROTHERS DISCOVERY COULD RESHAPE THE ORACLE FOUNDER’S FORTUNE.

WE ARE MAKING APART HOW LARRY IS HELPING HIS SON DAVID POTENTIALLY BUY WARNER BROTHERS DISCOVERY.

WHAT’S EXTRAORDINARY ABOUT YOUR REPORTING IS THAT HE’S SOLD VERY LITTLE OF ORACLE STOCK OVER THE YEARS.

>> YEAH. EVEN MONKS THE BILLIONAIRES -- AMONGST THE BILLIONAIRES WE ARE LOOKING AT HE STANDS OUT.

HE SOLD ABOUT $.7.5 BILLION WORTH STOCK LIFETIME.

MORE THAN THAN BILLION SINCE 2010.

THAT COMPARES IN COMPARISON TO LOOKING AT OTHER FOUNDERS.

HE STILL OWNS 40% OF THE COMP COMPANY.

HIS STRATEGY IN TERMS OF HIS MANAGEMENT HAS BEEN TO STICK CLOSELY TO HOLDING HIS ORACLE STOCK.

NOT CASHING OUT WHICH HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL FOR HIM AS THE STOCK HAS DONE WELL T RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CASH HE HAS ON HAND AND WHETHER OR NOT HE’LL BE ABLE TO IMMEDIATELY MEET THOSE EQUITY FINANCING COMMITMENTS. CAROLINE:

$40 BILLION IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS IS NOT THAT MUCH COMPARED TO HIS TOUCHDOWN 52 BILLION WORTH.

HOW LIQUID IS THAT? WHAT COULD HE SELL?

>> YOU RAISE A GOOD POINT. IT’S IMPORTANT TO SAY HE CAN AFFORD THIS. THIRD RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD.

AFFORD THIS. THIRD RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD.

HE’S GOT MORE THAN ENOUGH ASSETS TO COVER THIS.

HISTORICALLY ELLISON HAS RELIED ON DEBT TO FINANCE MONEY OF HIS INVESTMENTS, LIFESTYLE PURCHASES, CURRENTLY ABOUT 30% OF HIS ORACLE STAKE IS PLEDGED TO SECURE LOANS WHICH HE USES TO RAISE CASH AND FUND HIS MANY LIFE SOMETIME PURCHASES.

HE HAS AN EXTENSIVE REAL ESTATE PORTFOLIO.

EARLIER THIS YEAR FEELS LIKE A LIFETIME, HE PUT UP THE BIG CHUNK OF THE EQUITY FOR HIS SON’S ACQUISITION OF NATURAL AMUSEMENTS. SHOULD HE NEED TO RAISE CASH,

AMUSEMENTS. SHOULD HE NEED TO RAISE CASH, SELLING SHARES WOULD BE ONE OPTION IF HE’S CALLED ON TO BACKSTOP, WHICH WOULD CONSTITUTE A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE FROM HIS STRATEGY OVER THE FEW DECADES OR POTENTIALLY INCREASING THE SIZE OF THOSE LOANS WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT THE ORACLE BOARD WOULD NEED TO GO THROUGH A REVIEW PROCESS.

CAROLINE: JUST LIKE TESLA LEARNED WHEN ELON MUSK BOUGHT X OR TWITTER. GREAT REPORTING.

CHECK IT OUT ON ALL THINGS BILLIONAIRES.

TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE POTENTIAL BID OR DEAL OF PARAMOUNT BUYING WARNER BROTHERS DISCOVERY AND NETFLIX, TOO. THE LEAGUE STAKES OF THE ME MEGAMEDIA MERGERS.

TOO. THE LEAGUE STAKES OF THE ME MEGAMEDIA MERGERS.

FIONA SCOTT MORTON, ADJUNCTS PROFESSOR OF YALE LAW SCHOOL IS WITH US. FIONA, LET’S GO BACK TO WHETHER

WITH US. FIONA, LET’S GO BACK TO WHETHER OR NOT ANY OF THESE WILL GET THROUGH APPROVAL.

START WITH PARAMOUNT BUYING WARNER BROTHERS DISCOVERY.

DOES IT CUT LEGAL MUSTER? FIONA: ALL THREE OF THE BIDDERS, THERE WAS COMCAST TO BEGIN WITH, HAVE OVERLAPS WITH WARNER BROTHERS.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT THREE BUCKETS OF CONTENT PRODUCTION, STREAMING, AND THEN CHANNELS OR NETWORKS. THEY ALL OVERLAP.

AND PARAMOUNT IN PARTICULAR HAS A LOT OF PRODUCTION STUDIO KINDS OF ASSETS. PARTICULARLY BECAUSE PARAMOUNT MERGED WITH SKYDANCE FIRST. THAT’S A BIG ISSUE FOR THEM.

THEY HAVE A SIGNIFICANT SHARE OF STREAMING AS WELL. CAROLINE:

YOU SERVED AS DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL.

CHIEF ECONOMIST. YOU HELPED WITH ANTITRUST DIVISION IN YOUR TIME. WHEN ULTIMATELY IT COMES DOWN

TIME. WHEN ULTIMATELY IT COMES DOWN TO IT, THE COURTS ARE GOING TO SAY WHO IS THE COMPETITOR HERE?

DO YOU THINK IT’S RIGHT THAT THEY BULK IN YOUTUBE AND NEW WAYS OF CONSUMING CONTENT, EVEN TIKTOK VERSUS CABLE? FIONA:

I THINK THIS IS THE TRICKY THING FOR THE PARAMOUNT BID.

WE ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT PRODUCING CONTENT IS.

I THINK WE HAVE A GOOD GRIP ON WHO DOES THAT AND WHY IT’S DIFFERENT AND WHAT SORT OF MARKET THERE IS THERE.

STREAMING, HOWEVER, IS MUCH TRICKIER BECAUSE WE HAVE USER PRODUCED FUNNY CAT VIDEOS. USER PRODUCED VIDEOS THAT ACTUALLY SUSTAIN THOSE USERS IN TERMS OF INCOME.

WE HAVE PROFESSIONALLY PRODUCED SHORT THINGS.

PROFESSIONALLY PRODUCED LONG THINGS.

WE ARE GETTING A CONTINUUM OF CONTENT.

AND THAT INCLUDES YOUTUBE AS YOU POINT OUT.

WHICH HAS BIG CHUNK OF THAT CONTINUUM.

IT’S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO DRAW THE LINE ON WHAT IS WHAT WE CALL THE RELEVANT MARKET, WHICH IN ANTITRUST IS WHAT MATTERS BECAUSE THAT’S WHERE YOU GET HEAD-TO-HEAD COMPETITORS. CAROLINE: IT FEELS AS THOUGH NETFLIX, FOR

COMPETITORS. CAROLINE: IT FEELS AS THOUGH NETFLIX, FOR ITS PART, THUS FAR MNT TO BE THE FRONTRUNNER FOR BUYING WARNER BROTHERS, AT LEAST THE STREAMING AND THE STUDIO SIDE, THEY TRIED TO FRONT RUN THIS ARGUMENT BY MAKING CLEAR THEY THINK THE MARKET COMPETITORS ARE YOUTUBE AND TIKTOK.

AND WHERE OUR EYEBALLS ARE AT. WHO DO THEY NEED TO CONVINCE?

MANY WOULD SAY ELLISON HAS THE EAR OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

REALLY IT’S THE COURTS? FIONA: THAT’S RIGHT.

THE PRESIDENT CAN SAY HE WANTS THE ELLISONS TO HAVE IT.

HE CAN SAY THAT ABOUT HIS FRIENDS OR PEOPLE WHO GIVE HIM MONEY OR SILENCE THE VOICES THAT HE DOESN’T WANT TO HEAR.

BUT ULTIMATELY WE HAVE A LAW IN THE UNITED STATES THAT CAN BE ENFORCED NOT ONLY BY THE PUBLIC -- FEDERAL PUBLIC AUTHORITIES, BUT THE STATES AND ACTUALLY BY PRIVATE PLAINTIFFS AS WELL.

IF THERE IS SOME HARM TO COMPETITION AND THAT CAN BE SHOWN BY A STATE OR PRIVATE PLAINTIFF, THEN THEY CAN GO TO COURT AND TRY TO BLOCK THE TRANSACTION JUST LIKE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN. INDEED WE HAVE SEEN STATES, COALITIONS OF STATES BEING ACTIVE IN ANTITRUST LATELY WHEN THEY HAVE FELT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT DOING A GOOD JOB. CAROLINE: FIONA SCOTT MORTON, I HAVE A

JOB. CAROLINE: FIONA SCOTT MORTON, I HAVE A FEELING THIS STORY’S GOING TO RUN. GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK.

YALE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT.

COMING UP, ALIX STEEL OF STILLMARK AND WHAT WE CAN EXPECT FOR THE CRYPTO SECTOR IN 2026. THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH."

CAROLINE: IT’S BEEN A WILD YEAR IN CRYPTO.

DESPITE BIG REGULATORY WINS IT HASN’T BEEN KIND TO EVERYONE.

EVEN AS PRICES AND INTERESTS SURGED EARLY, BILLIONAIRES TIED TO THE SPACE ARE CHARTING VERY DIFFERENT PATHS HEADING INTO 2026. TAKE THE TWINS, THEY SOLD THEIR

2026. TAKE THE TWINS, THEY SOLD THEIR FORTUNES AS GEMINI, SPACE STATION CONTINUES TO FACE LOSSES. FALLING SEPTEMBER I.P.O. ON THE OTHER SIDE, JEREMY

LOSSES. FALLING SEPTEMBER I.P.O. ON THE OTHER SIDE, JEREMY CIRCLE BENEFITED FROM GROWING ADOPTION OF ITS STABLECOIN.

AND THE SHARES HAVE TRIPLED SINCE LISTING IN JUNE.

YOU CAN SEE THEY ARE WELL OFF THEIR PREVIOUS HIGHS.

GALAXY DIGITAL. SOME SORT OF A REBOUND ALONGSIDE BITCOIN’S GAINS EARLIER IN THE YEAR BUT IT HAD A TOUGH STRETCH. AND THE STRATEGY FOUNDER DOUBLED DOWN ON HIS HIGH CONVICTION, FURTHER TYING HIS WEALTH TO THE TOKIAN’S PRICES, HIS NETWORK HAS COLLAPSED

ALMOST 40%. WHAT NEXT FOR CRYPTO IN 2026?

ALMOST 40%. WHAT NEXT FOR CRYPTO IN 2026?

ALYSE KILLEEN STILLMARK MANAGING PART NERTS SAYS SHE’LL SEE MOMENTUM. WE EXPECT CONTINUED PROGRESS,

SEE MOMENTUM. WE EXPECT CONTINUED PROGRESS, EXPANDED ENTREPRENEURIAL INNOVATION, AND DEEPER MOREAU BUST BASE OF RETAIL AND INSTITUTIONAL USES.

SHE JOINS US. FOR YOU, REFLECTING ON 2025, WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST LANDMARK MOVE?

WAS IT INSTITUTIONAL ADOPTION? ALYSE: 2025 WAS ONE OF THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL YEARS IN BITCOIN’S HISTORY.

NOT BECAUSE OF PRICE DEPRECIATION, BECAUSE OF STRUCTURAL PROGRESS. THAT INCLUDES POLICY, PRODUCT,

STRUCTURAL PROGRESS. THAT INCLUDES POLICY, PRODUCT, AND INSTITUTIONAL ADOPTION. ACROSS ALL OF THESE FROTS BITCOIN MOVED MEANINGFULLY INTO THE MAINSTREAM HAS AN EMBEDDED PART OF THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM. 2026 WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT FOUNDATION. CAROLINE:

WHAT DOES ADVANTAGE LOOK LIKE? ALYSE:

WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IS RECENT REGULATORY CLARITY.

AND AN EFFORT BY REGULATORS AND POLICYMAKERS TO ACKNOWLEDGE BITCOIN AS PART OF THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM.

AND TO LAY THE FOUNDATIONAL GROUNDWORK IN TERMS OF POLICY SO THAT THE U.S. CAN CONTINUE TO LEAD BOTH IN TERMS OF INNOVATION, DISTRIBUTION, AS WELL AS INSTITUTIONAL ADOPTION THAT CAN PROVIDE EFFICIENCIES AND GAINS FOR U.S.-BASED INSTITUTIONS FROM BITCOIN TECHNOLOGIES.

FOR U.S.-BASED INSTITUTIONS FROM BITCOIN TECHNOLOGIES.

CAROLINE: QUICKLY, REMIND US WHERE WE ARE ON POLICY. STABLE COINS AND PASSED THROUGH

ON POLICY. STABLE COINS AND PASSED THROUGH CONGRESS, BUT THE CLARITY ACT, WHAT WILL THAT GIVE US IF IT DOES GET THROUGH THE SENATE? ALYSE:

IN ADDITION TO THE GENIUS ACT PASSING THIS YEAR, WE HAVE SEEN ADVANCEMENT OF THE -- WHAT THE CLARITY ACT AIMS TO DO IS TO CREATE A FRAMEWORK FOR BITCOIN AND OTHER DIGITAL ASSETS, TO CREATE CLARITY AS WELL AS CONSUMER PROTECTION AND CAN OFFER DEFINITIONS WITH THESE DIGITAL ASSETS ARE.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE EXPECT BITCOIN WILL BE DEFINED AS A COMMODITY ALONG WITH OTHER DECENTRALIZED ASSETS UNDER THE PURSUE OF THE CFTC, THAT WILL HELP DRIVE INSTITUTIONAL ADOPTION OF THE BOTH IN TERMS OF INSTITUTIONS -- INSTITUTION’S ONLY INTERACT WITH BITCOIN BUT ALSO COMFORT OF BITCOIN TO THEIR OWN

CLIENTS’ COMFORT. CAROLINE: YOUR POET FOLIO IS INTERESTING.

CLIENTS’ COMFORT. CAROLINE: YOUR POET FOLIO IS INTERESTING.

IT’S ABOUT THE BITCOIN ECOSYSTEM.

A LOT OF IT IS ENERGY FOCUSED. HOW IS THAT PLAYING FOR THIS NEED TO ENERGY AND POWER IN THE A.I. ERA? ALYSE:

WE BEGAN THE YEAR TALKING ABOUT BITCOIN AND INTERSECTION OF BITCOIN WITH OTHER CRITICAL TRENDS. AND THAT INCLUDED A.I.

AND ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE. WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AS THE YEAR COMES TO AN END IS AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OR RECOGNITION OF THE TUNE AT THE INTERSECTION -- OPPORTUNITY AT THE INTERSECTION OF BITCOIN AND ENERGY.

WE HAVE SEEN THIS LARGE TRANS,S SUCH AS ADVANCED BY MAJOR A.I.

STAKEHOLDERS SEEKING ENERGY DEVELOPMENT AND LOOKING FOR A WAY TO DRY EFFICIENCIES AND ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF PACE OF DEVELOPMENT. INCLUDING THROUGH PARTNERSHIP

DEVELOPMENT. INCLUDING THROUGH PARTNERSHIP WITH BITCOIN MINERS AND BITCOIN MINING DEVELOPMENT INSTITUTIONS.

CAROLINE: GREAT AS ALWAYS GETTING YOUR TAKE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR OF 2025.

VERY MUCH LOOKING FORWARD TO CHECKING IN WITH YOU IN 2026.

APOLOGIES FOR TECHNICAL GLITCH WE HAD THROUGHOUT THE INTERVEE.

WE THANK YOU SO MUCH OF STILLMARK, ALYSE KILLEEN.

COMING I, THE RISES DEMAND FOR ENERGY "IN FOCUS" AS A.I.

BUILD OUT RAMPS UP. JASON OXMAN JOINS US NEXT.

THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH."

CAROLINE: WELCOME BACK. LET’S CHECK IN ON THE MARKETS FOR YOU AS WE HEAD TOWARDS WHAT IS A SHORTENED WEEK.

WE’RE UP .2% ON THE NASDAQ 100 AT THE MOMENT.

STOCKS ACTUALLY DRIVING NEAR ALL-TIME HIGHS, VERY CLOSE ON THE S&P 500 AS WELL. FOUR STRAIGHT SESSION OF GAINS.

WE ALSO HAVE A NEW APPETITE FOR TECH IN PARTICULAR, EVEN AS THE U.S. ECONOMY EXPANDED THE FASTEST IN

U.S. ECONOMY EXPANDED THE FASTEST IN TWO YEARS, 4.3% ANNUALIZED PACE DOES.

THAT MEAN THE FED WON’T CUT? MAYBE THAT’S WHY BITCOIN IS UNDER PRESSURE. WE’RE UP ON CRYPTO, 87,828.

UNDER PRESSURE. WE’RE UP ON CRYPTO, 87,828.

IT’S EXPECTED TO HAVE A DOWN YEAR.

THEY’RE ALSO DOWN ON THE DAY, THE LAST QUARTER HAS BEEN VERY PAINFUL.

COREWEAVE UP BY 40% IN THE LAST QUARTER.

NEBIUS IS A NEW COMPANY TO OFFER COMPUTE FOR THE NECESSARY NEED FOR A.I. ALPHA BET UP 1.2% AS IT’S THINKING ABOUT THE ENERGY SIDE OF THIS A.I.

EQUATION, AND OF COURSE, A POWER COMPANY THAT WE SAW YESTERDAY INTERSECT POWER TO BE ABLE TO OFFER MORE CLIMATE-FRIENDLY ENERGY. THAT’S BEEN A BIG THEME OF THE

CLIMATE-FRIENDLY ENERGY. THAT’S BEEN A BIG THEME OF THE YEAR. AND ENERGY DEMAND IS ONE WE

YEAR. AND ENERGY DEMAND IS ONE WE KEEP ON INTERSECTING WITH OUR REPORTER WHO COVERS ENERGY, HIGHLIGHTING THE STRAIN THAT IT’S ALL BEEN PUTTING ON THE POWER GRID. I’M INTERESTED AS YOU REFLECT

POWER GRID. I’M INTERESTED AS YOU REFLECT ON HOW ENERGY MARKETS WERE DISRUPTED BY THE A.I.

RUSH THAT WE SAW.

>> IT ABSOLUTELY CHANGED SO MUCH.

WE’VE NEVER SEEN SO MUCH MONEY RUSHING INTO THE POWER SECTOR.

THE NUMBERS ARE JUST WILD.

THE FOUR BIGGEST TECH COMPANIES SPENDING $344 BILLION THIS YEAR.

THE POWER SECTOR EXPECTS TO INVEST .1 TRILLION OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS ON THE POWER GRID IN ORDER TO BOTH WORK ON DECAYING INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT ALSO TO CONNECT ALL THESE NEW DATA CENTERS. CAROLINE: AND WE’LL GET THE FINANCING

DATA CENTERS. CAROLINE: AND WE’LL GET THE FINANCING FROM THE END NEED OR DO THEY HAVE TO TURN TO THE CONSUMER AS WELL TO HELP FINANCE ALL THIS INFRASTRUCTURE?

IS THE GOVERNMENT? WHO PAYS FOR THE TRILLION DOLLARS IT IS FOR IMPROVEMENT?

>> TECH COMPANIES KICK IN A LOT OF MONEY, AND UTILITIES ESPECIALLY HAVE BEEN GOOD ABOUT SETTING UP CONTRACTS WHERE THEY GET PAID, WHETHER OR NOT THE TECH COMPANIES USE THAT MUCH POWER OVER TIME. SO THERE’S SOME BUILT-IN PROTECTION FOR CUSTOMERS THERE. BUT WHEN TECH DRIVES UP THE WHOLESALE COST OF ELECTRICITY, THAT COST IS THEN PASSED ON TO CONSUMERS. SO THEY DO SEE SOME UPWARD

CONSUMERS. SO THEY DO SEE SOME UPWARD PRESSURE ON BILLS FROM THAT. CAROLINE:

MANY ARE STATING THE 2026 MIDTERMS ARE ALL ABOUT THAT, WE’VE GOT IT IN NEW JERSEY, VIRGINIA, THOSE AREAS OF DATA CENTER BUILDOUT. ARE YOU SEEING THE UTILITIES

CENTER BUILDOUT. ARE YOU SEEING THE UTILITIES AND POWER COMPANIES ALSO TRYING TO GET AN EASIER REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT? I MEAN, WE’VE TALKED A LOT

ENVIRONMENT? I MEAN, WE’VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT FAST TRACKING THESE BIG PROJECTS AS THEY GOT A LOT OF MONEY.

>> IT’S HARD, BECAUSE UTILITIES FOR SURE WANT TO HOOK UP THE DATA CENTERS. THAT’S A HUGE NEW CUSTOMER FOR

DATA CENTERS. THAT’S A HUGE NEW CUSTOMER FOR THEM. THAT’S LIKE 700,000 PEOPLE JUST

THEM. THAT’S LIKE 700,000 PEOPLE JUST MOVING TO THEIR TERRITORY. WHO WOULDN’T WANT THAT BUSINESS?

BUT IT CAN BE TOUGH FOR THEM, BECAUSE IF IT MAKES PRICES GO UP, THAT GETS CONSUMERS MAD. THAT GETS REGULATORS AND POLITICIANS FOCUSED ON THE ISSUE.

AND YOU CAN HAVE LIKE WHAT WE SAW IN GEORGIA, WHERE REGULATORS ARE VOTED OUT AND NEW REGULATORS, DEMOCRATIC REGULATORS, WHO ARE EXPECTED TO BE LESS FRIENDLY TO THE POWER COMPANY, ARE VOTED IN. CAROLINE: JOSH SAUL, GOING TO HAVE A BUSY 2026, THANKS FOR BREAKING DOWN A WILD RIDE FOR 2025.

LET’S TALK MORE ABOUT THE IMPACT OF ENERGY DEMAND ON THE TECH INDUSTRY. JASON OXMAN IS WITH US,

TECH INDUSTRY. JASON OXMAN IS WITH US, PRESIDENT AND C.E.O., YOU REPRESENT SOME OF THE BIGGEST PLAYERS IN THE A.I. DOMAIN. I’M THINKING NVIDIA, OPENAI, LOT OF THE DEMAND FOR COMPUTE OR THE SUPPLIERS THAT COMPUTE.

WHAT ARE YOU SEEING IN TERMS OF THE REGULATORY EQUATION CHANGING TO HELP SPEED UP SOME OF THIS INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT?

>> GREAT TO BE BACK WITH YOU, CAROLINE, AND YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. POLICY MAKERS ARE PAYING A LOT

RIGHT. POLICY MAKERS ARE PAYING A LOT OF ATTENTION TO THIS ISSUE AND THE DEMAND CREATED BY THE CONSTRUCTION OF NEW DATA CENTERS.

IT DEMANDS NEW ACCESS TO ENERGY SOURCES.

WE’VE SEIVER OVER THE LAST FEW DECADES UNDERINVESTMENT IN ALTERNATIVE FORMS OF ENERGY, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF MOVES AFOOT HERE IN WASHINGTON TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES.

THE BIGGEST ONE THAT I’VE SEEN IN RECENT WEEKS, THAT WE’RE SUPPORTING, IS SOMETHING CALLED THE SPEED ACT, WHICH CONGRESS MOVED THROUGH THE HOUSE ON ITS LAST DAY HERE LAST WEEK.

THE SPEED ACT WOULD INVOGUE REGULATORY REFORMS TO SPEED UP THE PERMITTING PROCESS FOR CONSTRUCTION OF NEW ENERGY PRODUCTS. IT WOULD REDUCE REGULATORY

PRODUCTS. IT WOULD REDUCE REGULATORY BURDEN ON THOSE PROJECTS. IT TAKES YEARS AND YEARS TO PUT NEW ENERGY ON THE GRID. THOSE GRID MODERNIZATION EFFORTS TAKE A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT AND FINANCIAL RESOURCE.

THE ONE PIECE THAT WASHINGTON IS TRYING TO ADDRESS IS REDUCING THE REGULATORY BURDEN TO MAKE SURE WE CAN MAKE THOSE INVESTMENTS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE. DATA CENTERS ARE NOT NEW.

YOU MENTIONED NORTHERN VIRGINIA. THEY’VE BEEN A DATA CENTER HUB FOR DECADES. 2/3 OF THE WORLD’S INTERNET

FOR DECADES. 2/3 OF THE WORLD’S INTERNET TRAFFIC PASSES THROUGH NORTHERN VIRGINIA, BECAUSE IT’S BEEN A TRADITIONAL HUB. WE’RE SEEING THE NEW

TRADITIONAL HUB. WE’RE SEEING THE NEW CONSTRUCTION OF DATA CENTER PLACE NEW ENERGY DEMAND, AND POLICY MAKERS ARE TRYING TO TAKE ACTION TO MAKE IT MOVE MORE QUICKLY. CAROLINE: WHAT ARE THE CHECKS AND

MORE QUICKLY. CAROLINE: WHAT ARE THE CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT ARE NEEDED? WEE BEEN REPORTING ABOUT NEW PLAYERS COME ON THE SCENE, COMPANIES THAT HAVE NEVER BUILT DATA CENTERS BEFORE. BOY, ORACLE ITSELF, ONE OF THE BIGGEST DATA CENTER INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTORS OUT THERE AT THE MOMENT HAS NEVER ACTUALLY FORMALLY BUILT A DATA CENTER OF ITS OWN. SO HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT SPACE?

>> A LOT OF PARTNERSHIPS ARE HAPPENING.

WESTERLY IN JANUARY ON DAY TWO OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PROJECT STARGATE, WHICH ORACLE WAS INVOLVED IN, ALSO INVOLVED SOFT BANK, OPENAI, OTHER COMPANIES THAT ARE MORE TRADITIONAL INVESTORS IN THESE KIND OF PROJECTS.

DATA CENTERS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME, BUT A LOT OF NEW COMPANIES ARE GETTING INTO IT AS YOUR CONVERSATION WITH JOSH SHOWED, ONLY 18% OF THE CURRENT DEMAND FOR DATA CENTERS IS FROM THE TECH INDUSTRY, FINANCIAL SERVICES, OTHER RELATED INDUSTRIES ARE ALSO BUILDING DATA CENTERS.

AND I THINK AS YOU NOTED, THERE’S A LOT OF ATTENTION BEING PAID BY CONSUMERS TO THIS ISSUE.

THEY DON’T WANT TO SEE THEY ARE POWER BILLS GO UP AS A RESULT OF THESE INVESTMENTS IN DATA CENTERS, AND THAT’S WHY WE’RE SEEING ALTERNATIVE PROJECTS. YOU’VE SEEN TECH COMPANIES LIKE MICROSOFT INVEST IN NUCLEAR POWER.

WE’RE TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SMALL MODULE REACTORS THAT CAN POWER THE DATA CENTERS. I DO THINK IT’S IMPORTANT FOR CONSUMERS TO UNDERSTAND THE VALUE TO THE U.S.

ECONOMY, THE VALUE TO JOB GROWTH.

IT WAS THIS GREAT REPORT THAT VANGUARD PUT OUT LAST WEEK THAT SAID THAT JOB GROWTH IN A.I.-AFFECTED INDUSTRIES IS 1.7%. JOB GROWTH IN NON-A.I. AFFECTED INDUSTRIES IS .8%, SO

1.7%. JOB GROWTH IN NON-A.I. AFFECTED INDUSTRIES IS .8%, SO

TWICE THE JOB GROWTH IN A.I. INDUSTRIES.

THIS HAS AN ENORMOUS ECONOMIC BENEFIT.

SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THE DATA CENTERS ARE CONSTRUCTED AND A.I. CAN CONTINUE TO POWER THE U.S.

AND A.I. CAN CONTINUE TO POWER THE U.S.

ECONOMY, POWER WAGE GROWTH AND THE LIKE.

BUT THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT POLICY MAKERS, LIKE THE SPEED ACT CAN DO, TO HELP MOVE THE PROJECTS FORWARD. CAROLINE:

MANY WOULD SAY THAT JOBS GROWTH IS SHORT TERM IN NATURE.

YOU NEED A LOT OF ENGINEERS AND BUILDERS TO BUILD THEM, BUT YOU DON’T NEED THAT MANY PEOPLE TO MANAGE THE DATA CENTER ONCE IT’S UP AND RUNNING. AS THE SHORT TERM, LONG TERM PERSPECTIVE AS WELL, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE CLIMATE IMPACT.

HOW MUCH ARE THE BIG TECH COMPANIES REALIZING THE RESPONSIBILITY WHEN THEY’RE HAVING TO BRING UP ALL THIS COMPUTE AND POWER? THEY’RE ALSO SEEING THEIR EMISSIONS GO UP.

>> WELL, I THINK YOU’RE RIGHT ABOUT THE LONG-TERM VERSUS THE SHORT-TERM. IT DOES CREATE A LOT OF

SHORT-TERM. IT DOES CREATE A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION JOBS ARK LOT OF JOBS TO BUILD THESE DATA CENTERS. AND THERE ARE ALSO JOBS CREATED

CENTERS. AND THERE ARE ALSO JOBS CREATED IN THE DATA CENTERS THEMSELVES. BUT I THINK THE LONG-TERM EFFECT IS, REALLY, WHAT DOES A.I.

MEAN FOR IMPROVING PRODUCTIVITY AND CREATING NOT ONLY THE JOB GROWTH, BUT ALSO THE WAGE GROWTH THAT VANGUARD REPORT THAT CAME OUT LAST WEEK THAT I MENTIONED ALSO NOTED THAT WAGE GROWTH IN A.I.-RELATED

INDUSTRIES WAS 3.8% VERSUS .7% IN NON-A.I. RELATED INDUSTRIES.

THAT WAGE GROWTH IS ENORMOUSLY IMPORTANT.

IT’S WHAT’S MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DATA CENTERS.

YOU’RE RIGHT, THE DATA CENTERS THEMSELVES CREATE A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION JOBS. WE’RE GOING TO SEE THAT

CONSTRUCTION JOBS. WE’RE GOING TO SEE THAT CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD. BUT IT’S WHAT THE DATA CENTERS DO. THEY’RE BUILDINGS THAT CONTAIN

DO. THEY’RE BUILDINGS THAT CONTAIN THE FUTURE OF TECHNOLOGY FOR THE COUNTRY. THE A.I.

SERVERS THAT ARE IN THERE, THE SERVICES THAT ARE POWERED FOR CONSUMERS AND FOR PRODUCTIVITY FOR BUSINESSES IS REALLY WHAT WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON GOING FORWARD, AND THAT’S THE REAL BENEFIT OF THIS. CAROLINE: IT’S A GLOBAL THING, AND WE’RE SEEING SERVICE AND THE G.P.U.’S BEING PUT UP EVERYWHERE.

THERE’S A STORY, A REAL DEEPLY REPORTED STORY OUT TODAY FROM BLOOMBERG AROUND NVIDIA AND THE POTENTIAL THAT WE ARE SEEING CHIPS, G.P.U.’S FROM NVIDIA GET INTO CHINA’S HANDS, MAYBE

CHIPS, G.P.U.’S FROM NVIDIA GET INTO CHINA’S HANDS, MAYBE THROUGH MIDDLE PARTIES, AND THERE’S SOME CONCERNS THAT MEGA SPEED IN PARTICULAR MIGHT HAVE BEEN MAKING THAT ABLE.

JASON, HOW MUCH ARE YOUR COMPANIES THINKING ABOUT DIVERSION OF CHIPS AND HOW MUCH ARE THEY COMING DOWN ON IT?

>> WELL, I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT IN THE REPORTING THAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT THAT NVIDIA DIDN’T DO ANYTHING WRONG, THAT THERE WAS NO ACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT ANY CHIPS WERE DIVERTED, BUT IT’S AN INVESTIGATION OF ONE OF NVIDIA’S CUSTOMERS, WHICH I THINK WILL PLAY OUT BY GOVERNMENT. BUT THE BROADER QUESTION IN THE

GOVERNMENT. BUT THE BROADER QUESTION IN THE U.S. IS AN IMPORTANT ONE. THIS IS THE QUESTION OF

U.S. IS AN IMPORTANT ONE. THIS IS THE QUESTION OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND ECONOMICS AND WHERE THEY OVERLAP.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TOOK A VERY CLEAR APPROACH TO THIS, WHICH I THINK WAS THE WRONG APPROACH, QUITE FRANKLY, AND THAT WAS TO CUT OFF ACCESS TO THE WORLD TO U.S. TECHNOLOGY.

WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE HAS RECOGNIZED THAT THERE ARE ENFORCEMENT MATTERS THAT WILL OCCASIONALLY ARISE, THAT THEY NEED TO LOOK INTO, AND THEY WILL DO THAT.

BUT AS A GENERAL MATTER, THE U.S.

ECONOMY BENEFITS IN -- AND U.S. CONSUMERS BENEFIT IF THE WORLD CAN BUY AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY. THIS IS A RACE AGAINST CHINA, AND CUTTING OFF CHINA AND DENYING CHINA ACCESS TO TECHNOLOGY REALLY JUST PROVIDES AN INCENTIVE FOR CHINA TO BYPASS THE U.S. MARKET AND BUILD ITS OWN TECHNOLOGY FOR THE WORLD, DENYING U.S.

COMPANIES THE ACCESS TO THE GLOBAL MARKET IS THE WRONG APPROACH. THERE’S CERTAINLY NATIONAL

APPROACH. THERE’S CERTAINLY NATIONAL SECURITY QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED.

THERE ARE ENFORCEMENT MATTERS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.

BUT AS A BROADER MATTER, THE IDEA AS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DID, AND I THINK DID WRONG, OF CUTTING OFF THE WORLD’S ACCESS TO AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY, NOT JUST CHINA, BUT THE REST OF THE WORLD, THAT IS WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DID, THAT’S THE WRONG APPROACH. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE RECOGNIZE THAT THE SUCCESS OF AMERICAN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY, THE SUCCESS OF AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY, IS DEPENDENT ON AMERICA HAVING ACCESS TO THE REST OF THE WORLD. CAROLINE:

VERY BRIEFLY, WHAT ABOUT THE APPROACH BEING TAKEN FROM FEDERAL VERSUS STATE REGULATION OF A.I., THE ACTUAL LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS, AN ACT HERE IN NEW YORK AND IN CALIFORNIA, BUT ARE WE EVER GETTING CLARITY FROM THE FEDERAL LEVEL?

>> YEAH, THERE ARE MORE THAN 100 A.I.

LAWS ADOPTED AT THE STATE LEVEL THIS YEAR, AND THERE ARE MORE THAN 1,000 BILLS PENDING HEADING INTO 2026.

LOOK, TECHNOLOGY IS BEST DEPLOYED NOT WITH 50 DIFFERENT REGULATORY REGIMES APPLICABLE, BUT ONE COMMON REGIME.

THIS IS ANOTHER THING THAT’S ON OUR 2026 ROAD MAP.

PRESIDENT TRUMP JUST SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TASKING THE ADMINISTRATION WITH PROPOSING LEGISLATION TO CONGRESS THAT WILL REPLACE THOSE 50 POTENTIAL SEPARATE REGIMES WITH ONE FEDERAL REGIME. WE THINK THAT’S THE RIGHT WAY

FEDERAL REGIME. WE THINK THAT’S THE RIGHT WAY TO GO, BECAUSE TECHNOLOGY DOESN’T NECESSARILY NEED TO STOP AT STATE BORDERS. WE WANT TO HAVE ONE UNIFORM NATIONAL REGIME RATHER THAN A PAST FORWARD TO 50 REGIMES.

THAT WILL BE BETTER FOR THE TECHNOLOGY, BETTER FOR CONSUMERS AND BUSINESSES THAT WANT TO MAKE USE OF THAT TECHNOLOGY. BUT IT’S SOMETHING WE’RE REALLY

TECHNOLOGY. BUT IT’S SOMETHING WE’RE REALLY HOPING HAPPENS IN 2026. CAROLINE:

COME JOIN US AGAIN IN 2026. UNTIL THEN, HAVE A VERY HAPPY HOLIDAY. THANK YOU. COMING UP, THE BANK OF AMERICA

HOLIDAY. THANK YOU. COMING UP, THE BANK OF AMERICA C.E.O. ON WHERE HE SEES A.I.’S IMPACT

C.E.O. ON WHERE HE SEES A.I.’S IMPACT

IN HIS OWN INDUSTRY AND ELSEWHERE.

THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." ♪

ONE OF THE BIGGEST QUESTIONS FACING INVESTORS IN 2026 AND BEYOND IS WHETHER THE BILLIONS BEING SPENT ON A.I.

INFRASTRUCTURE WILL PAY OFF. THE BANK OF AMERICA C.E.O.

SPOKE YESTERDAY WITH MY COLLEAGUE, DAVID WESTIN, AND SAID WE’RE STARTING TO SEE THE IMPACTS BEGIN.

>> A.I. INVESTMENT HAS BEEN BUILDING, AND IT’S PROBABLY BUILDING BEYOND.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA CENTER BUILDOUT, THAT’S A BIG DEAL.

IF YOU LOOK AT CUSTOMER, CLIENT SPENDING, LIKE US SPENDING ON A.I., THAT’S HIGHER THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR, BUT FRANKLY, OVERALL

A.I., THAT’S HIGHER THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR, BUT FRANKLY, OVERALL SPENDING LEVELS ARE SHIFTING TOWARDS THAT, NOT NECESSARILY GROWING AT A MID SINGLE RATE TYPE NUMBER.

THAT’S THE REASON WHY WE THINK CONSTRUCTIVE FOR NEXT YEAR.

WE THINK A.I. SPENDING CONTINUES.

WE THINK THERE’S BENEFITS TO THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER FROM TAX REBATES, LOWER TAXES DUE TO THE TAX BILL GOING THROUGH AND BEING EFFECTIVE FOR NEXT YEAR. WE THINK EXPENSING AND OTHER BONUSES FOR BUSINESSES ARE GOOD. SO ALL THAT LEADS TO OUR CONFIDENCE WE GO FROM 2% TYPE OF GROWTH LEVEL THIS YEAR, PLUS

OR MINUS, UP TO 2.4%, WHICH IS ALL DUE TO THAT. AND A.I.

IS KICKING IN MORE AND MORE. IT’S NOT ALL ATTRIBUTABLE TO A.I.

A.I.

>> SO MUCH OF THE AMERICAN ECONOMY IS SUPPORTED BY THE CONSUMER, AND YOU AT BANK OF AMERICA HAVE A REALLY POWERFUL VIEWPOINT INTO THE AMERICAN CONSUMER.

HOW IS THE AMERICAN CONSUMER DOING? IT HAS BEEN VERY STRONG.

THERE’S BEEN SOME PEOPLE SAYING IT’S STARTING TO SLOW DOWN.

>> YOU HAVE TO STEP BACK. WE LOOK AT AMERICAN CONSUMERS, 70 MILLION CONSUMERS PUTTING $4.5 TRILLION PLUS INTO THE AMERICAN ECONOMY EVERY YEAR, AND WE’VE TRACKED THE WAY THAT GOES IN THE AMERICAN ECONOMY FOR MANY YEARS.

IN THE THIRD QUARTER, IT WAS UP ABOUT 5% OVER LAST YEAR.

AS WE LOOK AT THE FOURTH QUARTER HERE SO FAR IN OCTOBER, NOVEMBER, I’D SAY IN THE 4%, 4.5%, WHICH IS VERY CONSISTENT WITH A SOLID GROWING ECONOMY. AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT’S GOING TO WORK AGAINST WAGE GROWTH.

WE SEE WAGE GROWTH, PAYCHECKS ARE GOING UP.

SO THE LABOR MARKET HAS FLATTENED OUT IN TERMS OF JOB GROWTH AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IT’S NORMALIZING IN TERMS OF UNEMPLOYMENT, BUT YOU STILL SEE UNDERLYING WAGE GROWTH.

THE AMERICAN CONSUMER SPENDING AT 4% MORE NOVEMBER THIS YEAR VERSUS NOVEMBER LAST YEAR IS A VERY SOLID BACK DROP.

AND THEN YOU HEAR A LOT ABOUT THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT DIFFERENT RATES OF GROWTH AMONG DIFFERENT INCOME.

SO WE LOOK AT THE BOTTOM THIRD, MIDDLE THIRD, TOP THIRD OF AMERICAN INCOME PEOPLE IN THE BANK OF AMERICA CUSTOMER BASE.

WE SEE DIFFERENCES, I.E., HIGHER INCOME AND MIDDLE, IS GROWING FASTER. EVEN THE LOWER INCOME THIRD IS

GROWING FASTER. EVEN THE LOWER INCOME THIRD IS STILL GROWING. AND THAT’S ALL GOOD.

STILL GROWING. AND THAT’S ALL GOOD.

THAT MEANS, WHY IS THAT TRUE? COMPANIES ARE EMPLOYING PEOPLE.

THEY’RE PAYING PEOPLE. THE LABOR MARKET HAS A LITTLE SOFT AS WE LOOK AT 4.6% UNEMPLOYMENT.

THAT HAS GOTTEN WORSE THAN IT WAS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, BUT FRANKLY, THIS GOES BACK TO THE NORMALIZATION QUESTION. IF YOU LOOK AT THE 10-YEAR

QUESTION. IF YOU LOOK AT THE 10-YEAR AVERAGE, 20 YEAR, 30 YEAR, IT’S 5% AND 6% AS YOU GO BACK THROUGH TIME. SO A 4.5% TO 4.6% UNEMPLOYMENT

THROUGH TIME. SO A 4.5% TO 4.6% UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS A VERY STRONG RELATIVE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.

IT’S JUST A LOT OF YEARS IT’S BEEN BELOW 4.5%, ACTUALLY BEEN IN THE LAST 10 YEARS, SO PEOPLE ARE VERY USED TO NUMBERS NOW, WHICH WERE PART OF THE TIGHTNESS AND LABOR IN THE 2017, 2018, 2019 ERA. AND YOU HAD THE PANDEMIC, AND IT RETIGHTENED. IT’S NORMALIZING, BUT WE FEEL

IT RETIGHTENED. IT’S NORMALIZING, BUT WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT ALL THAT, AND THE CONSUMER IS IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE. CAROLINE: BRIAN MOYNIHAN SPEAKING TO

SHAPE. CAROLINE: BRIAN MOYNIHAN SPEAKING TO DAVID WESTIN. COMING UP, NEW DETAILS IN THE

DAVID WESTIN. COMING UP, NEW DETAILS IN THE DECISIONS BEHIND DOOR DESIGN. THERE’S 15 FATALITIES.

MORE ON THAT NEXT. ♪

CAROLINE: A DECISION MADE BY TESLA A DECADE AGO IS BEING LINKED TO FATALITIES IN CAR CRASHES.

THE INCIDENTS HAVE PROMPTED INCREASED SCRUTINY OF TESLA’S ELECTRIC DOORS, TRIGGERING LAWSUITS OVER WHETHER THE DESIGN CAN LEAVE PASSENGERS TRAPPED. TAKE A LOOK.

>> TESLA FOR YEARS HAS BUILT ITS REPUTATION ON BEING A COOL, SAFE, GOOD LOOKING CARMAKER.

>> TESLA IS ENGINEERED TO BE THE SAFEST CAR IN THE WORLD, AND TO BE FAIR TO THEM, THEY HAVE DONE VERY WELL ON U.S.

CRASH TESTS. THEY OFTEN GET FIVE-STAR RATINGS. FLUSH DOOR HANDLES WERE VERY

RATINGS. FLUSH DOOR HANDLES WERE VERY MUCH PART OF THE AESTHETIC, AND IT LOOKS VERY COOL.

>> FOR SO MANY YEARS, PEOPLE WHO DRIVE TESLAS LOVE THEIR TESLAS. THEY THINK THEIR CARS ARE SAFE,

TESLAS. THEY THINK THEIR CARS ARE SAFE, BUT THESE ACCIDENTS REVEAL THERE’S ACTUALLY SOMETHING BIGGER GOING ON.

>> WHEN YOU PUSH THIS BUTTON, THEY SAY, OK, TOP THE DOOR OPEN. IF YOU HAVE NO TROUBLE, THE

DOOR OPEN. IF YOU HAVE NO TROUBLE, THE FIRST THING YOU’RE GOING TO DO IS PUSH THIS BUT TON OVER AND OVER AGAIN, YOU’RE GOING TO START FREAKING OUT AND REALIZE THIS THING ISN’T WORKING. IN MY OPINION, THIS ISN’T TERRIBLY OBVIOUS. THIS IS NOT A PHYSICAL LEVER.

TERRIBLY OBVIOUS. THIS IS NOT A PHYSICAL LEVER.

THIS DOES NOT PULL A CABLE. YOU USE THIS UNMARKED SQUARE RIGHT HERE. THAT’S HOW YOU OPEN IT.

RIGHT HERE. THAT’S HOW YOU OPEN IT.

>> IS THAT THE SAME ON EVERY MODEL OF TESLA?

>> IT IS NOT THE SAME.

>> WHAT IF YOU’RE IN THE BACK SEAT?

>> THE BACK SEAT IS THE SCARY PART.

>> SO IN THE FRONT SEAT, THEY’RE BY THE HANDLE.

IN THE BACK SEAT, THEY MIGHT BE UNDER THE RUG OR BEHIND A SPEAKER GRILL OR BEHIND THE TRIM ON THE DOOR.

OR I ACTUALLY FOUND ONE IN A MODEL, IT WAS IN THE DOOR POCKET, UNDER A PLASTIC FLAP. A LOT OF TESLA OWNERS THEMSELVES DON’T KNOW THAT THESE MANUAL RELEASES EXIST. >>

YOU CAN DESIGN THE BEST VEHICLE IN THE WORLD, BUT YOU HAVE TO ALSO THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO A HUMAN BEING AFTER A CRASH.

YOU ARE PANICKING, AND YOU’RE GOING TO THE MUSCLE MEMORY.

FOR MOST OF US, MUSCLE MEMORY IS LIKE AN OLD CAR, WHERE YOU JUST OPEN THE DOOR. CAROLINE:

AND WE HAVE MORE REPORTING ON THAT DECISION MAKING PROCESS BEHIND THE DOOR DESIGN. ACCORDING TO MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS FROM SOURCES, ELECTRIC DOOR HANDLE WAS DEMANDED BY TESLA’S C.E.O. ELON MUSK, DESPITE SAFETY WARNINGS.

C.E.O. ELON MUSK, DESPITE SAFETY WARNINGS.

LET’S GET MORE ON THIS FROM OUR COLUMNIST. IT GOES BACK A DECADE, AND IT REALLY GOES BACK TO ALMOST THIS ERA OF VERY SLEEK DESIGN, WHERE LESS IS MORE.

>> YEAH, AND THIS IS A DESIGN AS THEY CAN I CAN THAT COMES FROM ELON MUSK N. CERTAIN WAYS, IT’S VERY INTERESTING HE WAS INVOLVED IN THESE CONVERSATIONS, BECAUSE THIS LOOKS LIKE A MISTAKE IN RETROSPECT.

WE’RE SEEING THESE DEATHS ON TESLA, THEY’RE WORKING ON REDESIGNS. THERE ARE INQUIRIES AND SO ON,

REDESIGNS. THERE ARE INQUIRIES AND SO ON, IT’S NOT SURPRISING THAT MUSK WAS INVOLVED IN THIS, BECAUSE HE’S INVOLVED IN ALL ASPECTS OF THE CAR’S DESIGN.

ON THE OTHER HAND, IT’S INTERESTING, BECAUSE AGAIN, THIS KIND OF UNDERCUTS SOME OF THE CLAIMS THAT THE COMPANY HAS MADE ABOUT THE SAFETY OF ITS VEHICLES. CAROLINE:

THERE’S A LINE IN THE STORY THAT ELON MUSK SAID THE BEST PART IS NO PART.

>> RIGHT. CAROLINE: THIS DESIRE FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS GOOD LOOKING AND SOPHISTICATED AND SCI-FI, BUT IT’S NOT JUST TESLAS HAVE HAVE THEM.

EVERYONE ELSE ADOPTED THIS AS WELL.

>> THIS HAS SPREAD TO THE ENTIRE AUTO INDUSTRY.

MANY E.V.’S, AS WELL AS GAS CARS, IT’S NOT ONLY SORT OF ATTRACTIVE FROM A DESIGN POINT OF VIEW, ALTHOUGH I THINK PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW, IT’S ALSO LESS EXPENSIVE, BECAUSE FEWER PARTS MEANS LESS COST. THAT’S ONE OF THE THINGS TESLA HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL AT, MAKING CARS WITH MUCH FEWER PARTS. THEY HAVE THIS FAMOUSLY VERTICALLY INTEGRATED

PARTS. THEY HAVE THIS FAMOUSLY VERTICALLY INTEGRATED MANUFACTURING SYSTEM. IT’S ALLOWED THEM TO CUT COSTS.

MANUFACTURING SYSTEM. IT’S ALLOWED THEM TO CUT COSTS.

OBVIOUSLY YOU SEE THE POTENTIAL PROBLEMS ABOUT YOU DIVERGE FROM THE WAY THE AUTO INDUSTRY HAS DONE THINGS FOR A REALLY LONG TIME. CAROLINE: THE CHIEF DESIGNER HAS BEEN ON

TIME. CAROLINE: THE CHIEF DESIGNER HAS BEEN ON BLOOMBERG AND SAID THEY’RE LOOKING TO CHANGE THINGS UP.

HOW QUICKLY WILL THAT GET INTO NEW MODELS, AND WHAT ABOUT THE OLD MODELS THAT USUALLY WE SEE AN UPDATE THROUGH SOFTWARE UPGRADE?

>> RIGHT, TESLA HAS SAID, UNLIKE OTHER AUTOMAKERS, THEY’RE CONTINUOUSLY UPDATING THEIR CARS.

IN THEORY, I SUPPOSE THEY COULD GET THIS DONE PRETTY QUICKLY.

THOUGH AGAIN, THIS IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS A SOFTWARE UPDATE.

THIS IS GOING TO REQUIRE TOOLING, IT’S GOING TO REQUIRE FACTORIES, RETRO FITS POTENTIAL UNTIL CARS.

THE STORY BLOOMBERG RAN EARLIER TODAY MENTIONS A SIMILAR EXAMPLE AROUND THE SHIFTER, I BELIEVE IT WAS THE MODEL X OR MODEL Y, WHY THEY TOOK AWAY THE COLUMN YOU USED IT AND REPLACED IT WITH A BUTTON THAT DIDN’T WORK OUT.

THEY HAD TO RETRO FIT THAT. YOU CAN SEE SOMETHING SIMILAR HERE, ALTHOUGH IT’S NOT GOING TO BE TAKEN CARE OF OVERNIGHT.

CAROLINE: MEANWHILE, SHARES NEAR RECORD HIGHS, AS IT’S SEEING MORE HUMANOID TAXI.

IT’S BEEN A THEME THROUGHOUT 2025, THE INVESTIGATION INTO TESLA’S DOOR HANDLES. THAT DOES IT FOR THIS EDITION OF "BLOOMBERG TECH." DON’T FORGET TO CHECK OUT OUR PODCAST. FIND IT ON THE TERMINAL, AS WELL AS ON APPLE,

PODCAST. FIND IT ON THE TERMINAL, AS WELL AS ON APPLE, SPOTIFY AND I HEART. FROM NEW YORK, THIS IS BLOOMBERG. ♪

BLOOMBERG. ♪