Our Most Impactful Learnings From 2025

Most people live their life like this.

They build a well and they start to pump water. And at the end of their lives,

water. And at the end of their lives, after a lifetime of pumping, they see they are still thirsty. They spent their whole life pumping rather than drinking, which was the reason they started pumping in the first place.

What up, Sam? I wanted to do something a little different today. End of the year.

I was doing a little Slack cleanout and I was looking at I had this one channel for like the best stuff I read this week. I call it my content diet channel.

week. I call it my content diet channel.

It's basically what were the vegetables, what were my whole foods that I consumed cuz I consume a lot of junk, but this stuff was actually good. And I was just kind of browsing through what really stood out or resonated with me and I

have a couple. I don't know. I And I wanted to know yours because you read a lot more than me and I think we read totally different things. So I I'm curious if anything comes to mind for

you on that topic. Yes. Um, for me it's a lot of books and so like for example the the topic that I got obsessed with this year was presidential assassinations. I went deep on the four

assassinations. I went deep on the four different presidents who were assassinated and it that interested me.

But you know I'm a huge history fan and so I could talk to you all about history which which I I can like say some of the most amazing stuff that I learned. I

feel like we did a whole bit when the Trump assassination thing happened on presidential assassinations. There's

presidential assassinations. There's some crazy stories, right? There's like

the guy who had his speech in his pocket that like blunted the blow and so he got shot >> and he survived.

>> Roosevelt and he gets shot by his car on his way to his speech doesn't die cuz the speech is so thick in his pocket.

>> Gives the speech while bleeding.

>> Yeah, that was Roosevelt. There's only

been four presidents that have been successfully assassinated and three of them happened between like 1865 and like 1905. And like pretty much up until Andrew Garfield was assassinated,

which I think was like around 1904, any human, any American, it was like customary, you can just go to the White House and schedule an appointment with the president. And the idea here was

the president. And the idea here was that they were supposed to be like a man of the people. And I think that's ridiculous. And the Secret Service, even

ridiculous. And the Secret Service, even up till 1963, 64,65 when JFK was shot, it was only like 300 people. And so like basically was non-existent. And so I'm like obsessed with that uh about how

like something became an institution even after four years or sorry four deaths happened. And so I've been

deaths happened. And so I've been obsessed with that. I've also been obsessed with leadership and the idea of speeches. Have you ever studied any of

speeches. Have you ever studied any of the great speeches of American or world history?

>> Not in particular. What you got?

>> So in particular uh Winston Churchill.

Have you ever seen the movie Dunkirk?

You've never seen it, right?

>> No, I haven't.

>> Okay. The idea is like early in the war of England, this was when like the Nazi Germany had just invaded France and it was like clear that Nazi now was Nazi Germany was officially bad. Before it

was like, "Yeah, they're horrible, but like they're going to stay themselves."

They start evading other countries and people start freaking out. They go

through France and everyone's like, "Oh my god, I can't believe uh you know, imagine today. Imagine like France

imagine today. Imagine like France getting taken over."

>> France.

>> Yeah. It is it's just like insane. And

so England, which is nearby, they were like, "Oh my gosh, now they are coming to us." And so they start officially

to us." And so they start officially getting in get into a war and have skirmish in Dunkerk where Nazi the Nazis surround a part of England and they surround like I think it was like 50,000

or even 100,000 soldiers and basically if those people died the war would have been over and it was a magical moment where hundreds of ships that were just fishermen but also the uh British Navy

they raced over and they grabbed these guys off this island and they saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

Whatever. Whatever. [laughter]

But that's not the important part of my story. But up until that point, England

story. But up until that point, England was like fearful. They were very fearful. They're like, "This is

fearful. They're like, "This is horrible." Like they were imagining all

horrible." Like they were imagining all the worst things that that was going to happen. Winston Churchill who was in

happen. Winston Churchill who was in power was a very fearful fearful person and he was very nervous. But then he goes, "Screw it. We're not going to take this. We're going to get after it." And

this. We're going to get after it." And

he gave this speech and at the end of the speech, he does this in like I forget what their I think it's the House of Parliament Parliament. It's like

their like physical setting where like everyone's watching him and he was like, "We're going to fight in the beaches.

We're going to fight in the trenches.

We're going to fight in the land. and we

will never ever give up. And he like gave this like amazing speech that basically changed the entire morale of the country. We were talking about tens

the country. We were talking about tens of millions of people and it just like I've always been very fascinated when there's one person who can exert a relatively small amount of energy and get everyone else to change their

energy. So like if you ever been to a

energy. So like if you ever been to a concert, I used to love watching these Oasis concerts. They'll be literally

Oasis concerts. They'll be literally they're famous. They they they were

they're famous. They they they were famous for helping create like this idea of like a mega concert. They would have 250,000 people in the audience and they're relatively high energy band, but it's just one or two guys singing into a

microphone and they get 250,000 people to like light up and like push that energy back to them. And I'm obsessed with what is that one thing that person has and how do they leverage that amount

of energy to impact potentially hundreds of thousands or in the case of Winston Churchill, tens of millions of people.

And so I'm like uh like try to figure out like what words does someone have to use? And like if you think about Winston

use? And like if you think about Winston Churchill, do you know what he looks like?

>> Uh yeah. I mean I've seen photos of him.

>> Like he's a a short fat kind of drunkard. Like he's not like he's not

drunkard. Like he's not like he's not like a good-looking guy. Like he doesn't have like the traditional movie star good looks or anything like that. And so

what I've been trying to study is how people do that >> because you want to just deliver this at work or what's the like connect the dots for me.

>> Yeah. Because I do want to become a better leader. like once your company

better leader. like once your company gets so my company we're only at like 25 or 30 people but I'm getting to the point now where I'm not doing a lot of the work and I am having to not motivate people because all my a good employee is

already motivated but in order to make a good employee a great employee you do need to inspire them right >> and so I've just been trying to figure out how to become a better leader and so I've been studying some of the >> we're going to advertise in the banner ads we're going to advertise in the

podcast we're going to advertise everywhere we will advertise you know what do you what is the like rally cry that you're trying to trying to get to that What would be like what would be an example? Have you done it yet? Have you

example? Have you done it yet? Have you

tried?

>> Yeah. Like so so right now AI is everywhere and I just it's making me sick that I am like having to talk to AI all the time and I'm not having a lot of like relationships in real life. I'm not

having what you call these belly-to-belly conversations. And what

belly-to-belly conversations. And what I've noticed with Hampton is once we got people in room in the room in the same room once a month to have their conversations for the core meeting, it literally will change their lives. Not

because we're particularly special, but just being in a in a physical setting with people who have been vetted and you know that you have like-minded interests and you're indoctrinating them into having what do we call the three C's?

Confidentiality, cander and commitment that will change someone's life and it changes their life just in a small way.

These are entrepreneurs. It's not like the average show. So eventually we want to like figure out how can we do this with everyone else. But just this idea that the world is going one way yet everyone is so incredibly lonely and sad. What can we do that like solves

sad. What can we do that like solves that? Even if it's for a small group of

that? Even if it's for a small group of people like entrepreneurs. Did you see churn like go to zero when you went from digital to in person? It

>> it's crazy. Like on a bad month, it would be like 60s annual churn. Now it's

like 80s and 90s.

>> Wait, 60s mean so 40% churn or what do you what do you mean by that?

>> Uh 60s retention.

>> Yeah. So 40. So 40%

would churn every month before >> annual. It's annual annual.

>> annual. It's annual annual.

>> Okay. Of your annual membership. Okay.

Gotcha. And then now it's like jumped up significantly just by making that work.

>> 85 90% like it's not it's like but but there's all this other work of like being crazy about the vetting process. I

don't think people realize that thousands of people apply and we let in like four or 5% per month. So we do a lot of work but in real life does most of the work. The problem is it's a [ __ ] pain in the ass. It's really

hard to do. We got to find these like moderators in all these cities and train them. It's really really hard. But not

them. It's really really hard. But not

even close. Like night and day. [music]

All right. I read a ton. I would say almost a book a week. And the reason I read so much is because my philosophy towards reading is I want to see what worked for the winners that I love and what strategies they use. And then I

want to see what mistakes uh did they all make, what were the common flaws that they all had and I just want to avoid that. And so HubSpot asked me to

avoid that. And so HubSpot asked me to put together a list of the books that have changed my life so far in 2025. And

I did that. And so I listed out seven books that made a meaningful difference in my life. And I explained what the differences that they had on me or what actions I took because of the book. And

then also I listed out my very particular ways of reading because I'm pretty strategic about how I read and how I read so much and how I remember what I read and things like that. And so

I put this together in a very simple guide. It's seven books that had a huge

guide. It's seven books that had a huge impact on my life. And you can scan the QR code below if you want to read it or there's a link. You guys know what to do. There's a link in the description.

do. There's a link in the description.

Just go ahead and click it and you'll see the guide that I made. So, it's the seven books that had a massive change in my life this year so far. And then also how I'm able to read so much. So, check

it out below.

>> So, it sounds like one of the things you're doing is you're tying it to a bigger movement, which is I what I think what the great leaders do. So, you're

not saying, "Hey, we are trying to win.

We're trying to grow revenue." Cuz

people only get so excited by the sort of financial success or metric success of your specific company. But when you say, "Look, the world is going this way." But we got to fight. We got to

way." But we got to fight. We got to fight. We I don't want to live in that

fight. We I don't want to live in that world. I think that world is messed up.

world. I think that world is messed up.

The world where we just get lonier, we're sadder. We're only talking to AI.

we're sadder. We're only talking to AI.

We're not seeing other people. We're

just living digitally. Like this digital overload is going one way. I want to I want we're part of the resistance. And

that sort of we're part of the resistance is generally one thing that like most leaders do. They they tie their, you know, you could play in a football game, a high school football game, but you'll feel like you're going

to war and you're fighting for your brothers and like they took something from you and your family and you could you can make it so important when actually it's a, you know, division 3A high school football regular season game

that you'll never remember four weeks from now, right? But but the leader can elevate the importance and what this means because the meaning it is what it is. No, no, no. It is what you say it

is. No, no, no. It is what you say it means. And so what you tell yourself it

means. And so what you tell yourself it means is is what you'll actually um what you'll actually feel about it.

>> And you know I don't when you studied when you were in like social studies classes in like fifth and sixth grade they used to talk about these Roman emperors. And I don't know if you

emperors. And I don't know if you remember this but they would often refer to them as orders.

>> Yeah. Orders. Yeah.

>> Which is kind of I remember thinking I'm like that's funny. So this person >> content creators without without the internet. [laughter] Like I if I had an

internet. [laughter] Like I if I had an order at Rome was like someone who stands on a rock and like hey everyone here's what we have to do.

>> Should we rebrand from podcaster to order?

>> It's kind of a it's kind of like an interesting thing.

>> Yeah. Technically that is what we do.

>> And you ask yourself why on earth would order someone who could just speak good?

Why would they control like you know the entire world?

>> And I started thinking about that obsessively and I'm like okay well what do the leaders have in common? And most

of the time it is great speeches and great speaking and I underestimated that for a long time. So I've been trying to figure that out.

>> That's been a rabbit hole you've been obsessed with.

>> I'm shocked that you're not going down that track either. I think that you I think you have that. I think that you study it as well. I don't think you get credit enough for studying that, but I'm shocked that that doesn't like fascinate you.

>> It uh it does. It's just what season are you in? What which rabbit hole do you

you in? What which rabbit hole do you happen to be in right now? That's a good one. I've got it earmarked. you know,

one. I've got it earmarked. you know,

like, you know, that's a that's of great interest to me, but uh right now I'm interested in a couple other areas. I

want to give you one. You know, there's a book that I think a lot of people have heard about, probably even read. I read

it, but I had sort of forgotten about this part of it, Die with Zero. And Die

with Zero is really like it's just YOLO rebranded. And so, what what is what is

rebranded. And so, what what is what is it about? And I I emailed her this

it about? And I I emailed her this passage. I said, here's from the book.

passage. I said, here's from the book.

says death wakes people up and the closer it gets the more awake we become cuz when the end is near that's when we suddenly start thinking what the hell am I doing why did I wait this long you can't live every day like it's your last

if so you wouldn't bother studying or visiting that's dentist or doing anything that has delayed gratification but if you de delay gratification for too long or indefinitely it's just too late you also can't live life as if it's

infinite so we all face the question what's the best way to uh allocate our life energy before we die and here's the principles so principle one timing matters Some experiences can only be enjoyed at

certain times. You can't water ski when

certain times. You can't water ski when you're 90. And in the book, he tells

you're 90. And in the book, he tells this great story about how his buddy when he was a investment banker, his buddy was like, "Let's go backing through Europe." He's like, "I'm down."

through Europe." He's like, "I'm down."

He's like, "Awesome. It's going to be a six week trip." He's like, "Six weeks?

How are we going to get six weeks off?"

He's like, "Well, we'll last, but they probably will say no. We'll probably

have to quit." And he's like, "Quit?"

And he looked at his friend like he's being so reckless. Like, wow, you're just quitting your job to go backpacking through Europe. What a reckless thing to

through Europe. What a reckless thing to do. What a irresponsible thing to do. I

do. What a irresponsible thing to do. I

will do the responsible thing and stay in the job. And he talks about when his friend came back and he immediately just he sees the glow. Sees how he's talking about his time abroad. He's like, "Oh [ __ ] I made a mistake." What I thought

was responsible was actually irresponsible because I threw away this time in my 20s where there's only one there's only timing matters. There's

only one time to go backpacking through Europe and sleep in hostiles. And so he actually talks about when he was 32 or something. He finally, you know, gets

something. He finally, you know, gets his pro promotion he's been waiting for and he's takes he has enough time to take off and he goes and he he goes and does that trip. Bill Perkins, the author.

>> Yeah. Bill Perkins goes and does the trip and he's like, "Guess what? It's

not as fun to go buming around in hostels when you're 32, 33 years old."

Like that was a game to be played when I was, you know, 20 to 25 and I missed it.

I missed the window. And um so timing matters. That's the first thing. Second

matters. That's the first thing. Second

thing, what to worry about. We can

always make more money in the future, but we cannot go back and recapture time. So, it makes no sense to let life

time. So, it makes no sense to let life opportunities pass us for the fear of squandering money. Squandering our lives

squandering money. Squandering our lives should be of much greater worry. All

right, the last one. Money is life energy. Think of money as the concept of

energy. Think of money as the concept of life energy. You trade some life energy

life energy. You trade some life energy working to get some amount of money, maybe $10 an hour. Then, then when you want to buy a shirt for $30, you don't think about $30. You say, "Hell no, you want me to go work for three hours for

this shirt?" Similarly, a higher salary

this shirt?" Similarly, a higher salary doesn't mean more income on an hourly basis. If I'm making 200K a year, but

basis. If I'm making 200K a year, but only working 20 hours, that's better than making 300K working 40 hours. It's

like eating a cookie. One cookie is 1 hour on a treadmill. Is that cookie really worth it? Just imagine if your credit card, imagine if your credit card, it like starts at 100 years old and every time you buy something, it now

goes to 900 years, you know, 900 years in six months. It's like, oh [ __ ] that was six months. I just paid for that.

>> If when you checked out it was like, awesome. um based on your al your salary

awesome. um based on your al your salary that was you know 4 and a half days of work so you know would you like to would you like to work 108 hours right now you know like you know when would you like

to schedule that in like never mind just keep the blender dude I don't want it you know [laughter] I'm not interested in this um and so I thought there's a lot of good stuff in this book uh I actually didn't really read the full

book cuz it's kind of like a book should be a blog type of deal but the the core concepts in the first you know let's say 50 to 75 pages is I thought were really really good. The last one, this is one

really good. The last one, this is one for you. The vast majority of financial

for you. The vast majority of financial fears are completely irrational. There

are real financial fears. They do exist.

And then there are irrational or illogical financial fears like rich people who still worry about money even though the math clearly shows they're fine and will always be fine. And I

think this is also true for a lot of people. But I hate I hate that advice

people. But I hate I hate that advice though because well you didn't you know I'm not gonna criticize the book because I think it maybe it goes into like actual tactics but it's sort of like selling like a young guy like who's struggling to date someone like just be

yourself. It's like well but myself

yourself. It's like well but myself sucks. So can you like maybe instead

sucks. So can you like maybe instead just teach me how to be a better self.

So like telling someone not to worry is like telling an alcoholic just like try harder, you know? So

>> So what is the solution?

>> [ __ ] I don't know years of therapy. I'm

not sure exactly but uh but but I haven't found it. No, you I have found it. It's just get richer. Like what

it. It's just get richer. Like what

there? [laughter]

>> No, I don't think you found it.

>> I don't know. I think you have to there is a point I have hit a point where I'm like, okay, there there's enough for this current lifestyle. Um that's for sure.

>> And by the way, the final visual he has he says most people live their life life like this. They build a well and they

like this. They build a well and they start to pump water. And as the well fills, they use a cup to scoop out a small amount of water. They take a sip and go right back to pumping higher and higher. And at the end of their lives,

higher. And at the end of their lives, after a lifetime of pumping, they see they are still thirsty. They spent their whole life pumping rather than drinking, which was the reason they started pumping in the first place. When I when

I see these things, a lot of times the takeaway that people have is that I shouldn't work or I shouldn't do something. And I think that that's not

something. And I think that that's not the takeaway that he implies or what he wants the takeaway to be, but that's the takeaway that a lot of people have. And

I think that that is such a bad idea to like not work. I do think that there is something magical about 30 or 30 to 50 hours a week. There is something magical

where you have to have a thing that you're contributing to with others for a shared mission. And so when I see this,

shared mission. And so when I see this, I don't want people to think, young people, to think I should get rich and not work. I think that's not the goal. I

not work. I think that's not the goal. I

think you should have a mission in life that it aligns with yourself, but um you have to contribute to society.

Otherwise, you're just going to feel empty.

>> Yeah. I think the idea here isn't work or don't work or don't care about money or care about money. It's those are sort of false choices. It's really the idea of uh the way most people live their

life is I'm speaking to the type of person who's going to listen to this podcast. You're

probably an overachiever type, probably a little type A. you're probably pretty hungry for success. Um, you might be slightly impatient, right? These are, I would say, common common uh disorders of

the MFM listener group, right? I know

this because I am one. And I would say the trick is for most of us, we basically work work work and then we try to fill in some life around the gaps.

And the idea I think of what he says and what I picked up from Jesse is look, you got to decide what you want to do in life. Schedule that. Don't worry, the

life. Schedule that. Don't worry, the work the work is always there. The work

will fill in all the cracks around those things. But if you just wait till you

things. But if you just wait till you have large gaps of free time or it's the right time to go do that thing you always wanted to do, work just is like a liquid or a gas. It just expands to fill

the container you give it. And so you have to be really conscious of how you let that fill the container. Like the

the analogy I use with Jesse is um you know you have a jar.

>> Jesse Sler.

>> Jesse. Yeah. You have a jar and imagine for your year you have uh you know next to the jar. The jar is empty right now, but you have sand. You have small rocks and big rocks. And the sand is going to be like all your day-to-day life

routines. It's going to be your errands.

routines. It's going to be your errands.

It's going to be your Zoom calls. It's

going to be your meetings. Whatever.

That's the sand. It's stuff that you you do you got to do. Um you got to do a lot of it. But you're not going to look back

of it. But you're not going to look back a year from now and remember any of those. You know, your Zoom calls don't

those. You know, your Zoom calls don't go in your sort of your lifelong memories or your photo albums. Like it's it doesn't make it there, right? But you

got to do some of them. Then you have the small rocks which are like, you know, little little initiatives, little efforts. And then you have the big

efforts. And then you have the big rocks, the things that, you know, really matter to you. You know, taking that family trip or going and visiting your parents even though you don't have to and maybe you don't have time to do it, but hey, you're they're getting older and you want to go visit them or it's

learning that new skill or whatever it is, launching that project. Those are

your big rocks. And if you put the sand in the jar first and then you say, "Great. Now I'm going to fit the big

"Great. Now I'm going to fit the big rocks in," they don't go in at all. But

if you put the big rocks in and you say, "I'm doing these. These have this much space. They're in here." And then you

space. They're in here." And then you fill as much sand as you can. Turns out

you can fit the whole you can fit all the things into the container if you do it in the right order. The sand will fill in all the cracks and crevices. But

the big rocks don't work that way. So

you just have to make sure you sort of figure out what are my big rocks. What

do I actually really really care about?

And then how do I put them in the jar first? uh not do them first, but even

first? uh not do them first, but even just schedule them first so that my life doesn't just become, you know, a jar full of sand.

>> Dude, that's so funny. That's the same analogy that the book the book uh traction that teaches you how to use e their EOS system. They use the exact same analogy on why you should like set goals and work hard and all this stuff.

>> Yeah, cuz it's like I mean somebody did this to us in like high school or something. They some it's like a magic

something. They some it's like a magic trick. It's like, "Oh, try to fit all

trick. It's like, "Oh, try to fit all these in." And if you do it in one

these in." And if you do it in one order, it looks like it's physically impossible. you put it in the other

impossible. you put it in the other order, it all fits in and you're like, "Oh, I didn't need a bigger jar. I just

needed to put things in the right order."

order." >> What else did you read this year that you liked?

>> Um, there's this Howard Marks blog post that I mentioned called Selling Out is the name of the the title. Have you read this blog post?

>> That's a new one. Was that one of his more recent ones?

>> Uh, no. It was in January of 2022.

>> Oh, that's cool. What'd he say?

>> And it's a conversation with his son Andrew. So, there's Howard Marks, who

Andrew. So, there's Howard Marks, who came on the pod and was awesome. his son

Andrew is also a great investor and and so they were talking and basically they're like um you know the basic idea in investing is buy low sell high okay great uh but like when when do you

actually sell on the high like do you sell like you know when it goes up a little bit uh you know when it goes up a little more when do you wait you hold it forever like how do you actually do this and um he's talking to his son about it

he's like hey you have this position do you think you should sell and his son is like no and he's like well is there any price that you would sell like certainly there's got to be some price and his son's like yeah and so they have this

sort of back and forth almost like Socratic dialogue and he basically says like the the premise of the blog post is he's like there's only he's like after lots of thought I've realized that there's only two reasons people sell

because things are up or because things are down and he's like that sounds a little silly but let me explain and he's like you know you could sell cuz it's up as in you're taking profits you're maybe afraid that the gains will go away and

so you want to do that but like it certainly doesn't make sense to just sell just because it's up, right? That

would be like you would be selling, let's say you own Amazon back in 1999 and it's $5 a share and it goes to nine and you sell. Like obviously that wouldn't have been a good decision. And

so like simply saying sell when it's up doesn't make any sense cuz how far up and uh and just always that doesn't work. And selling when it's down is, you

work. And selling when it's down is, you know, usually a a emotional reaction to things. Panic, fear, um you know, sort

things. Panic, fear, um you know, sort of disappointment leads people to sell.

you you the whole market gets pessimistic and so you do too. So

clearly just selling because it's down isn't a good idea. So okay so then when do you sell and basically he talks about the concept of basically it's a it's like an opportunity cost. So all

investing is about relative selection.

So um you know two things you sort of look at two things one this is all going to sound very basic but the reality is that myself as an investor and most people as investors don't actually act in accordance with this very simple

logic. So the first part of the logic is

logic. So the first part of the logic is you initially invest in something because you have some thesis. Well, over

time you you'll either feel more validated about that thesis or less like you know more information will come out.

Does the reason you bought this thing that does that feel more true today or less true today than it did at the time you know so maybe you believe that this would be you know the best thing ever.

Then they release the product and it's not so great. So now you know your confidence level should go down when that happens. So the first part is like

that happens. So the first part is like is the primary like principles behind why you invested getting more true or less true? The second thing is all

less true? The second thing is all investing is relative. So putting $100 in one stock is >> wait sorry but was he saying that that is the what was he saying for point one?

Is that the right way or wrong way that your opinion shouldn't change? No, no,

they should change. As new information comes out, you update your thinking and you say, "Well, if the reason I bought the investment is no longer true, like then I need to either had have had a new reason to invest or I should not be

invested in the thing >> versus just sticking with it because of cognitive bias of like >> you sunk some fallacy or cognitive bias trying to like convince yourself that like no no there's despite all this

evidence I still believe, you know, it's all wrong. the facts are wrong, you

all wrong. the facts are wrong, you know, and and and sort of sort of going in your, you know, sort of putting blinders on to to reality. Well, the

second part of it is it's all about relative selections, opportunity costs.

So, if you were not invested in this, you would be invested in something else.

So, do you have, you know, uh more conviction and the better prospects investing in something else than you do in this, right? And so, that's the second thing. So, he's talking about

second thing. So, he's talking about like there's a third factor which is if you're too concentrated and he's talking about with his son Andrew, he's like, you know, you're really concentrated because this thing has gone up. you're

overweight. This one thing, he says, um, his son is basically says, "Well, that's true, but it depends on your goals."

Right now, trimming or selling would mean selling something that I have immense comfort in based on my bottoms up assessment of it and moving into something I feel less good about and know less well. And to me, I would

rather own a small a smaller number of things which I feel strongly about because I will only have a few good insights over my lifetime. So, I have to maximize the value that I have from those. And um you know this is tended to

those. And um you know this is tended to be true across like you know mo most people who are active investors is that you only have a few good ideas. Whether

this is you know angel investors who like you know the vast majority of their portfolio comes from you know two three bets that they made out of you know potentially hundreds or it's George

Soros saying the most the most important thing in investing is um position size because you're going to be wrong a bunch. I think his hit rate was

bunch. I think his hit rate was estimated to be about 30% correct. So

70% wrong. And he's like, "So the the key is that the 30% correct, I need to be correct in a big enough way where it's going to make, you know, outsiz returns and I when I'm wrong, I need to be wrong in smaller ways, right? So

position sizing, the game is all about sizing. Like I don't care if you're

sizing. Like I don't care if you're right if it's too small." And and Stanley Dreen Miller, who's now this legendary investor, says that's the number one thing he learned from Soros.

He came in with a great idea and he expected Soros to say it's too risky or whatever. And he's like, "Well, if

whatever. And he's like, "Well, if you're so confident, we should be betting 10 times the size." like either you're wrong about your thesis or you're wrong about your size. You can't be right about both right now because your size is too small on what you're what

you're saying you believe in.

>> The reason I love talking to people like Howard Marks and I would love to have any of these investors on, not because I particularly care about investing. I

find it mildly interesting, but it's uh whatever. It's fine. It's But I care

whatever. It's fine. It's But I care more about what they can teach me about how to live a better life. Because when

I hear you like talking about like truthing this with investing, I'm like, "Oh, I made that mistake with this relationship. Therefore, my flaw is

relationship. Therefore, my flaw is thinking is my my thinking is flawed.

Um, did you have any takeaways on how this could apply to life other than just through investing money?

>> No, I was thinking about it more from a money point of view to be honest, but I mean his solution, it's not like he gives you like some formula at the end, right? He says the bottom line, we

right? He says the bottom line, we should base our investments based on our own estimates of the assets potential.

So, that's the first like you have to think about the assets potential. That's

the reason you invest, not because it's up or down.

um we should not sell just because the position has risen. There could be a re reason to limit the size or how concentrated you want to be, but there's no scientific way to calculate what that limit should be. It's a personal choice.

And he goes, so in the end, it comes down like everything else in investing entirely to judgment. So it was less about like how do I apply this philosophy to everything? It's like,

damn, dude. Everything, you know, judgment is the ultimate lever cuz the just like you're saying with relationship, who you pick to marry, where you choose to live, what you choose to invest in, where you go with

your career, like these are all judgment calls that we put very little thought into. I would say, you know, most people

into. I would say, you know, most people are pretty thoughtless about about a lot of those decisions or we put very little effort into becoming better at judgment.

Like, if I asked you today, how do you become better at judgment? And how much time did you spend this year working on that that muscle?

>> None. It's like none consciously, right?

So consciously, we're spending no time on probably the most important muscle to us to to our like long-term happiness, right? Cuz your decisions become your

right? Cuz your decisions become your destiny. So how do you make better

destiny. So how do you make better decisions?

>> Do do you study that?

>> Do I study? Well, I do a couple of things. I don't know if I study it, but

things. I don't know if I study it, but I told you this before. I I write down all my decisions. So I have this thing called the decision register. It's a

table and I write down two things. When

I'm making a decision, I write down what it is and why I'm making it and my like confidence level in the decision. And

then I go back and I assess the decision register. And there's two things that

register. And there's two things that come out. First, I see was I right or

come out. First, I see was I right or wrong in that. And then the other thing was what were important decisions that I didn't even realize were important at the time. Like going on a whim to that

the time. Like going on a whim to that conference that felt like a small decision at the time, but actually this amazing relationship came out of it and that led to this, you know, huge outcome for me. That's a good way to be

for me. That's a good way to be retroactive. Explain to me how you said

retroactive. Explain to me how you said you write down what it is. Part of

solving the problem is defining the problem. I buy into that, but how can I

problem. I buy into that, but how can I use your your framework for making a better decision in the future versus just retoact looking back and trying to adjust my >> So here's here's I I call it the

decision survey. So here's the actual

decision survey. So here's the actual questions I have in a Google doc. So

first, what is the decision? Write it in the length of a tweet. So I'm deciding to do X, right? So actually write it down. Then two, check in on your

down. Then two, check in on your feelings. So what am I feeling right now

feelings. So what am I feeling right now while I'm making this decision? Is it

extreme fear, some fear, neutral, some greed, extreme greed? So like why what is my emotional state when I'm making this decision? And I know if I'm on

this decision? And I know if I'm on either end of the spectrum, you know, on the far end of the greed spectrum or in the fear fear spectrum, um I shouldn't be making the decision.

>> It's like going to the grocery store hungry.

>> Exactly. Uh then I write this. I say,

"What is the one decisive reason to do this?" Blended reasons are bad reasons.

this?" Blended reasons are bad reasons.

So, learned this from Reed Hoffman, the LinkedIn guy. I think he learned it from

LinkedIn guy. I think he learned it from Peter Teal, which is if you want to go do something, you don't say, "Well, it'll be good because, you know," he gives the example of like, "Oh, should I go speak at this conference?" He's like,

"Well, it'll be good cuz I've never visited Canada before and um you know, I might meet some cool people there and it might be a good reason to work on my speech, my public speaking skills, and you know, it'll be a good time chance to

spend time with this person." And

basically, that's what bad decisions sound like. You can just blur out the

sound like. You can just blur out the words. But that if you hear that tone,

words. But that if you hear that tone, you're about to make a bad decision.

>> But you're saying bad decision meaning a bad outcome or you're deciding on the wrong thing. Like, does bad decision

wrong thing. Like, does bad decision mean I'm saying no when I should say yes, or does bad decision mean I'm I shouldn't even >> poor judgment process a poor use of the skill of judgment. So a better way to

make decisions, right? The input, right?

Making the because the outcome might work out, right? It's like in poker sometimes you play do seven offsuit.

It's a bad decision. You shouldn't have made the bet, but you got lucky. Two two

sevens came out and you you hit trips.

Okay, cool. You don't want to f let that fool you into thinking, well, I should always play do seven. It's my lucky hand, right? That's what really bad

hand, right? That's what really bad players would do. same way where there's people who will fold pocket kings because they got beat once. It's like,

well, no, you should always just put your money in with, you know, with good odds and then let the let things play out based on the probability and over time it'll work in your favor, right?

So, you kind of only you can't do what's called resulting where you judge every decision only on the result. Like you

have to be able to judge the decision based on how is the input, not the output. Uh, which is easier in poker

output. Uh, which is easier in poker because the odds are known than it is in life because the odds are unknown. But

you got to do your best to do it either way. So anyways, I try to write the one

way. So anyways, I try to write the one decisive reason. So if I'm going to go

decisive reason. So if I'm going to go give that talk, it's literally because I want to go spend time with this person and they live in Canada and that's why I'll go give that talk. Uh that's why I'll take the trip. And if that one

reason is not enough to do it, then there's really no reason to do it. So

you should have one reason that's strong enough to do the thing and everything else is bonus, but you can't count it.

You got to and and what I do is I I make my strongest reason for and my strongest reason against and then they joust. So,

it's like I write the single reason I would do it and a single reason I wouldn't do it. And I look at those, I say, "Who would win this? If that's an arm wrestling match, who wins? Which one

is stronger?"

>> But what attributes does each of those arguments have? Like,

arguments have? Like, >> for example, it could be like, "I don't want to I want to be around my family versus this one thing could uh change I could I could make a lot of money

because it's a a new customer." First,

it's got to be honest. That's the first thing cuz I think we're not honest sometimes about why we're doing certain things. Um, I think it's got to be

things. Um, I think it's got to be concise. So, it can't be a spaghetti

concise. So, it can't be a spaghetti reason because your brain can't even understand it. And then the last is it's

understand it. And then the last is it's got to figure out, you got to tie it to the value. So, right now, is your top

the value. So, right now, is your top value uh making more money, getting in great shape, or is it spending time with your loved ones? Right? They're all good things, but like do you have one that

that's valued more? And [clears throat] secondly, do you have good substitutes?

So, okay, I could do this to spend that time with this person, but couldn't I just go hang out with them when they're back, right? Couldn't I couldn't I just

back, right? Couldn't I couldn't I just call them once a week, right? Is there

not like a valid substitute that doesn't have the same cost? And if there is a valid substitute, you do it. Okay.

Secondly, I write down what are the secondary benefits? And then I ask

secondary benefits? And then I ask again, if I took all the secondary benefits away, would I still make the decision? These are all related to don't

decision? These are all related to don't do blended reasons because that's the number one thing that we try to do, especially smart people because we love making lists. So we make like long lists

making lists. So we make like long lists >> like you well a lot of times what people do is they do pros and cons and they go well the the cons list is way longer therefore that's right.

>> Yeah. Exactly right. Or they just don't even make a decision. They write a big pros and cons list and just paralyzed themselves. I don't know. It's too

themselves. I don't know. It's too

complicated. Right. Like that's that's why you don't want to do that. So what

triggered the decision? Uh what made me want to do this basically? Which is

usually like a sneaky way of figuring out the fear and greed thing. It's like,

oh, because my buddy did this and he got this great thing and now I want to. It's

like FOMO or something like that. Seven

is what alternatives did I consider?

Which is usually just a test of did you consider any alternatives or you just trying to do the first thing that you thought of and that's a it's a sign of shallow thinking which results in bad decisions. A is it a reversible

decisions. A is it a reversible decision? If it's a reversible decision,

decision? If it's a reversible decision, good. I don't need to worry about it as

good. I don't need to worry about it as much. If it's irreversible, I should

much. If it's irreversible, I should think about it a lot. What's the upside if I'm right? What's the downside if I'm wrong? What followup is important to

wrong? What followup is important to make sure this one decision would be higher chance of being a success. So

that's kind of like you could almost make a decision a good decision if you do it with enough intensity if you follow up and follow through and do secondary actions. When and how will I

secondary actions. When and how will I know if this is a success? And then

lastly, um what do I think is going to happen? Just write down a quick

happen? Just write down a quick prediction of the future.

>> Did you create this?

>> Yeah, it's pretty good.

>> Thank you. It's a lot of effort. Um,

like I'll tell you, I do this probably one-third of the time I should. And I

would say the average person does it 0% of the time. And the reason why is because it's like going to church or something.

It's like, oh man, I got to I got to I got to go do this thing. I know it's the right thing to do. I know I should do this. I know it's good for me, but it

this. I know it's good for me, but it takes a little bit of effort and it's going to require me to be critical of my own thoughts. And it's so much easier to

own thoughts. And it's so much easier to just not check in on those things.

there's this like I don't know what it's called a quadrant four four squares you know the graph and it's like high urgency versus low urgency and then highly important and not important and I

think the idea is like you want to spend you have to allocate a certain amount of time to things that are not urgent and are very important right but that bucket tends to get no love typically it's

unimportant and urgent and important and urgent and because of that you don't make a you don't you don't invest enough time that has actually builds the foundation to a lot of things in the future. And what's really fascinating is

future. And what's really fascinating is that we're discussing like how do you get good at making decisions, >> which is like one of like the top 10 things on earth you could ever potentially learn, right? Like and yet I

have never actually thought about that.

I've tried to read um Charlie Munger is like famous for being like um an interesting thinker and his um when he died recently they wrote an article about him and he like had these funny quotes where he was like you know it was

really hard in life because I just knew I was so much better than everyone else and even though I talked a lot I wanted to talk so much more to show how much better I was than everyone else. So he's

this like really really cocky guy, but his like thinking is very good. And I

have like tried to read poor Charlie's Almanac like five different times and I just find it incredibly boring. But now

that that I think you find it boring, too.

>> Yeah.

I'm like, I should love this on paper.

Everything about this I should love it.

And then you read it and it's like I'm reading about Charlie's grandkid. Do I

care about this? No. No. No. And it's

just a little slow to give me some like I need I don't know. I I need some I'm like a kid. I need some zingers every few minutes.

>> It's very textbook. It's very textbook.

>> Well, he has like this speech which is like him and a lot of other people really love these like cognitive biases.

Like what are I think he gave this talk once called like the top reasons of human misjudgment, right? So, it's about this exact topic and I've listened to that. It's good. But I find it pretty

that. It's good. But I find it pretty hard to memorize like 23 cognitive biases and carry them around in my head all the time and like identify them when they're happening and then like find some root cause. And I find a much

easier thing is this sort of like Socratic method of like, well, what are you doing? I'm doing this. What makes

you doing? I'm doing this. What makes

you think that that's a good idea? Do

this. How will you know if this worked?

It's like I don't know. Stop asking me questions. But like that Socratic method

questions. But like that Socratic method to me is like just a much clearer indicator of when I know what I'm doing and it's a I'm making a good decision or I'm making a bad decision and it helps me avoid things um in the moment. The

other thing is just time. So like don't um don't do don't don't try to make a decision in the same you know in in in the same time you're sort of gathering information or don't you know sleep on it or like let 3 days go by as a cool

down period if you can. It's like same thing with like any impulse control right you need if you just add a time delay you can avoid a lot of mistakes.

When I was younger, um, in my early 20s and late teens, I used to do book reports on all the books that I read.

And I still occasionally do it, but before it was like, I'm going to read this one book this quarter, and I'm going to read the bibliography and like all the cited sources, and I'm going to master this, and then I'm going to write

a book report on it. And one quarter it was like, um, the 48 laws of power because I was like, well, if you like learn about like power, like then I could see when people are trying to manipulate me and if I want to get powerful, hopefully I can memorize it.

And I was like, but there's 48 of them.

How on earth am I supposed to memorize all of them? And so for the longest time, if you Googled 48 laws of power summary, I had this Google doc that I wrote and I wrote all my thoughts and I

wrote and I summarized all 48 laws and I shared the document with people. But you

know when you share on Google doc, you sometimes put like share with link or sorry share a link to anyone. You forget

that that's searchable on Google. And so

for the longest time, I think it was like three years, my Google Doc was number one. And every time I logged in,

number one. And every time I logged in, there would be hundreds of people on this document. And it was so funny that

this document. And it was so funny that it became number one. And then what I did was I I put made it so people could comment. And so people started

comment. And so people started commenting on it and they would add like interesting like takeaways and stuff. So

it was like a um crowdsourced thing. It

was actually really cool.

>> But I was obsessed with like how do I memorize this stuff? And now that you're talking about this Charlie Amanac thing, I'm like, I've just said I've tried to read this like tons of times. And right

now I'm telling myself and everyone else listening that this is important, but I have not done it. I need to do this.

This is actually so fascinating. And a

really interesting interesting thing is I asked myself I w like do I wish I would have done this 3 years ago? Yes, I

should probably do it like immediately then because I will be less regretful if I do it in the future. And so this is funny that that we're talking about that.

Well, Naval had this thing about reading that changed kind of the way I think about reading. So, I I used to approach

about reading. So, I I used to approach it similar to you, which is like I'm reading to get information. I'm really

reading to learn something. So, I was like, this book contains stuff and the goal is to get the stuff from the book to be stuff in my head, right? And that

was hard. And sometimes I'd be like, ah, this stuff isn't that great or oh my god, how am I going to memorize all this? How am I going to remember any of

this? How am I going to remember any of this? Do I remember the stuff I read

this? Do I remember the stuff I read recently? No, I don't. Does this even

recently? No, I don't. Does this even work? And Nal put it differently. He

work? And Nal put it differently. He

goes, "When you read, it's like rubbing two sticks together. All you're trying to do is create a little bonfire in your brain." So he's like, "You're looking to

brain." So he's like, "You're looking to spark a thought, an idea. So you read not to get the stuff, all the stuff from the book to be all the stuff in your head. You're reading to just catalyze

head. You're reading to just catalyze some spark, some thought, some uh some realization, some thought process, some new idea in your mind." And if you look

at books as creating that spark in your mind, you look at them very very differently. And so you don't need to

differently. And so you don't need to even you often don't even read the whole book and you don't feel any guilt towards that. You don't need to remember

towards that. You don't need to remember things from the book. The book just needs to be a consistent tool to get you to think more interestingly and think um

more deeply in the moment itself. And if

you just do that habitually, you'll just consistently be a good thinker. And um

once I started doing that or once I kind of went into reading with that mindset, I enjoyed it a lot more because there was way less pressure. There was way less obligation. I didn't feel obligated

less obligation. I didn't feel obligated to finish. I didn't feel obligated to

to finish. I didn't feel obligated to remember. All I felt obligated to do was

remember. All I felt obligated to do was ask like what thoughts does this spark in my head. And when I started paying attention to that, like it changed, you know, how I read.

>> Did you read anything else that you like this year?

>> Uh I read a lot of stuff. I mean

fiction. Uh there's this book called The Will of the Many. highly recommend if you like stuff that's in the kind of like Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, like fantasy, sci-fi, like it's not sci-fi, it's more fantasy, but it's basically

this book that's like this kind of a it's like mirrors like the Roman like the Roman political structure. So like

when there was like you know the the um the there's like a hierarchy and so uh The Will of the Many was a good book and it's it's a series. The second book just came out, Strength of the Few. I just

crushed that one. That was, you know, I'm into this series right now. is a

good series. And like for me, one of the great joys of life is like getting into one of these like fictional series like whether it's again Game of Thrones or Harry Potter or like one of these one of these different ones, but they're pretty hard to find. They're pretty hard to get

into cuz it's a lot of world building.

When you do, it's like really really rich. And so um Jack Carr this year, you

rich. And so um Jack Carr this year, you know Jack, >> he does what mystery novels or what does he do?

>> Is it like war like Tom Ryan or whatever?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's called The Terminal List. And we actually had him

Terminal List. And we actually had him on on My First Million, >> the James Reese series, uh, which starts with the Terminal List, which is like the best seller.

>> Dude, it's crazy. So, this guy was a we had him on on the pod. I didn't want you to come because I wanted to nerd out with him and I was embarrassed as like how much I like love this book because it's one of these things where you read one of these books and you like fall in

love with like these fake things and you like don't want to like tell anyone else >> fake things >> like like have you ever read a book and you're like you're sad it's over and you're like I have to remind myself that

this person isn't real like there's been times like I've read a fiction book and I'm like googling I like need to see like did other people ever draw this character or was an act did an actor ever play them so I can like you know

like get to know them further. Uh,

[laughter] that's how it was with the with this guy and uh, Jack Carr.

>> What' you read? Which books you read?

>> Like seven of them. He's got like I think he's got like six or seven of them. I've read almost all of them and

them. I've read almost all of them and he's got a he's got a bunch of them.

He's one of the more prolific guys. I

don't know how he writes so much, but he was >> he came on the podcast. What was like is there like the one thing you remember from what he said or did he say anything really insightful?

>> So, listen to this. He was a Navy Seal where he was he was bad. He was a bad to the bone dude and he uh basically started writing these books which was funny because writing is not like a very

typical masculine thing writing fiction writing stories but this guy is like I mean he's a masculine dude and he starts writing these like >> he writes like this like his grip on the pen is

>> yeah and like when he's thinking he's like picking his teeth with like a big knife like [laughter] but he's like a pretty hardcore dude and yet when he talked to us he was very

soft. He was the politest guy. He was so

soft. He was the politest guy. He was so kind. And the book series is basically a

kind. And the book series is basically a Navy Seal who was wronged and he goes to the end of the world in order to uh wrong the right. And it just so happens that he gets into different like

adventures, you know, seven different times, seven different books. Sort of

like James Bond, like how on earth is one guy like constantly saving the world? So, but it was crazy how soft

world? So, but it was crazy how soft this guy was. yet at the same time he was like very I mean he he had definitely has killed a lot of people before and he was like this pretty hardcore dude but he was so gentle and I

found it really [laughter] >> is that I feel like is that a weird thing to take away >> well this it's a thing you do a lot which is like we have someone on and

you're almost like a feeler rather than a listener like you you're more into their vibe and their persona >> always it's always the first thing um

like which is cool. Like I I I it's different than like the way I operate, but like I I find that often when I ask you about somebody, it's always like the way they were, not what they said, which

is cool. And I think actually it's

is cool. And I think actually it's probably a lot of people pick that like that is what we pick up from people is like the unspoken, but you are like particularly in tune with that. So

>> I felt that way with John Morgan where I'm like I don't even remember half the stuff that he said, but like he had this cowboy vibe that I was into. [laughter]

I'm all vibes.

>> I am all vibes. That's an interesting observation. I do I do do that all the

observation. I do I do do that all the time where I won't like what I don't even remember what him and I talked about. I can't remember anything. But

about. I can't remember anything. But

then you will do these things constantly where you recall these stories and they're very minute. Like I've been with you and I've heard you retell the story and you'll be like and he set this thing

down and he looked at us and he said this thing and I'm like he did? I don't

even remember that. How do you remember that one? like I don't I don't think of

that one? like I don't I don't think of those details or like we've been with like you've told stories of Furcon and you'll like retell a story with a detail that I had no idea but I just remember him as like a really nice guy.

>> Yeah. It's it's kind of interesting also to figure out like what what do you want to observe, right? Like I wonder how intentional you could be about that and

be like how do I like can I change like my little like metal detector here? You

know what I mean? Like can I >> could I actually improve it? Could I be more intentional about what it is? Or is

it just like that's innate? It's very

hard to change. I'm curious about that.

>> It's sort of like people who say they're bad at names.

>> And I'm like, "No, you're not. You just

don't care." So like I'm someone said that to me. I was like, "I'm bad at names." And they're like, "No, you just

names." And they're like, "No, you just don't care." And that bothered me. And

don't care." And that bothered me. And

so I was like, "Okay, I care." So

whenever I meet someone, so if someone recognizes me on the street, I'll say, "What's up, man? What's your name?"

Kevin. Okay. Kevin, where are you from?

Kevin, you're from You're from Idaho.

Okay. Kevin from Idaho. Man, it was so good to meet you. Thanks, Kevin. man,

like I'll like you like repeat it a bunch of times and then you associate and you I I'll associate with where he's from. And so I will always remember

from. And so I will always remember someone's name all because someone made me feel bad. And so I I think I should change to like how do I remember like certain details and the way that I think you have to remember those details that you're referring to is you have to

remember the story. It all has to be the story.

>> So Eric Jorgensson is another thing I read this year. So Eric Jorgensson, he runs Scribe and he wrote the Nalmanac.

So he wrote a book that compiled like all of Naval's wisdom. Dude, I think he sold a million copies of that.

>> Is that true?

>> I think he sold a lot more than that.

>> More than 1 million copies.

>> Yeah.

>> How many books have sold more than 1 million?

>> He's made He's made a lot of money off that book. And it's great because the

that book. And it's great because the funny thing is the genre of that book is a in your own words in his own words biography type of book, right? So he

doesn't write himself. He compiles what Naval said without adding any of his own commentary. Naval has this philosophy of

commentary. Naval has this philosophy of like you open source your material. You

let other people sort of fork it, remix it, and like your idea spread. Like what

more do you want than your ideas to spread?

>> This is a win-win for everyone.

>> Yeah. Right. So, so he's doing one on Elon right now. So, he sent me like an advanced copy of his Elon book. And I

was excited and I cracked it open. And

one thing that I like right away is, you know, smart by Eric, which is he puts something that you don't already know about Elon at the front just to at least signal to you there's going to be [ __ ] in here that you don't already know, assuming you're like an Elon general

like fanboy or you know, you're in the tech bubble already. If he was like, "Yeah, Elon likes to think from first principles." Like, I know, I know. I've

principles." Like, I know, I know. I've

read all this [ __ ] before, but he talked about it's a it's Elon talking about memory and he's like, "Yeah, like when I was a kid, I learned how to do these like memory palaces." [laughter] He's

like, "You can remember pretty much anything if you learn that like memory is a skill and there's like a way to do it."

it." >> Is that like walking through a house?

>> Yeah. You know, like the idea of a memory palace, like you like create like a physical um 3D, you know, structure in your mind and then you sort of link the

the thing to a room or a location, a visual object, and then you create a little bit of like a story of like walking through from one to the next. So

like the people who could the people who could memorize like all the cards, they're like the king is like a real king and the number seven is a house.

There's a king in a house. He meets a queen. So he has a wife. The king is

queen. So he has a wife. The king is >> on seven's lane and on seven's lane his wife the queen she loved diamonds and so she Yeah. And you do that and that's how

she Yeah. And you do that and that's how you sort of build this thing. So it's

like Elon talking about like memory palaces and I was like this is great.

I'm just give me more Elon stuff. I need

I'm happy to get, you know, an unlimited buffet of like new Elon anecdotes and nuggets cuz like how rare is that, right? So, I thought that was pretty

right? So, I thought that was pretty cool. And in general, his book is really

cool. And in general, his book is really good. It's going to be good.

good. It's going to be good.

>> I can't believe he has sold that many copies on that book. That is absolutely insane.

>> So, one of the topics I was going to do today is a work smarter not harder topic. And uh Eric is an example of

topic. And uh Eric is an example of this. So, how do you write a

this. So, how do you write a best-selling book that sells millions of copies? Well, what if I told you it's um

copies? Well, what if I told you it's um none of your ideas and none of your words? Would that interest you? It's

words? Would that interest you? It's

like a a way smarter way to write a bestseller, right? So, Eric doing that.

bestseller, right? So, Eric doing that.

There's this incredible interview that came out that there's a clip that came out. Did you hear it? It's uh Acon

out. Did you hear it? It's uh Acon talking about his music.

>> No. What'd he say?

>> So, Acon the rapper, he was on a podcast and he told the story. He's like,

they're like, "Dude, so you, you know, you had a crazy career." You know, they were talking about his Guinness Book of World Records that he owns for ringtones. And he tells the story. He's

ringtones. And he tells the story. He's

like, "Yeah, man." He's like, "I was recording music and at the time the way we sold music was you would sell your single on iTunes and it'd be $1.99 for your 4-minute song." He's like, "But

then I walk around and I saw everybody had a phone and they were all had a like a ringtone. They had a song as their

a ringtone. They had a song as their thing. So I asked them, I said, "Hey, do

thing. So I asked them, I said, "Hey, do you get to pick what that is?" They're

like, "Yeah." He goes, "How much did that cost? Is it free?" And they go,

that cost? Is it free?" And they go, "No, you pay for it. $4.99." He goes, "$4.99.

A 4-minute song is $1.99.

10-second ringtone is $4.99." He goes, "And even better," he goes, I ask, I call my lawyer. I say, "Hey, um, check my contract with the record label.

What's the cut on ringtones?" And he's like, calls him back. He's like, "Hey, there's nothing about ringtones in here.

[laughter] There's no there's nothing about digital anything and like there's nothing for ringtones. He goes, you know, say less.

ringtones. He goes, you know, say less.

So he hangs up the phone and he goes, I started making music songs that were meant to be ringtones. Every song I did, I would focus on how is this a ringtone?

And so Mr. Lonely became the number one ringtone in the world. And he wrote that song to be a ringtone. He's like, I would write the song with a ringtone in mind. I would record it with a ringtone

mind. I would record it with a ringtone in mind. I would chop it up and make it

in mind. I would chop it up and make it really easy for these songs to be ringtones. And he's like, um, I broke

ringtones. And he's like, um, I broke the Guinness Book of World Records. I

sold 11 million ringtones. He goes,

$4.99? That's $55 million of gross sales on ringtones. And he's like, I became

on ringtones. And he's like, I became the ringtone king. And then he's like, then the next time they tried to redo my contract, they tried to slip in. Oh, and

ringtone sales. He's like, let's take that out right there. Nope. You know,

that's not going in the contract. We're

going to have to renegotiate a separate deal on that. And I just thought it was brilliant. The acon ringtone, work

brilliant. The acon ringtone, work smarter, not harder. How do you sell a 10-second song for five times the pri, you know, for for for two times the price as a four-minute song?

>> I so remember like being 14 and hearing girls that had that on there. I'm going

to put that on my as my ringtone now.

>> I don't you do ringtones. Does that

still work?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I had >> Nobody has a ringtone now.

>> No, I did. If you called my It was a remix version of the Nokia one and actually had beads. It started off like a normal like came back. Can you just bring ringtones

came back. Can you just bring ringtones back? I feel like if I feel like if I

back? I feel like if I feel like if I was the music industry, the number one thing I would try to do is bring ringtones back.

>> Well, do you know what I here's let me tell you what I what I'm bringing back in my house. We I bought a uh DVD player and an activity cuz I don't let my kids watch TV, but I'm letting them like

sometimes on Saturday when we're like over like if it's just me watching two kids and I'm overwhelmed, I'm like I need like something, but I don't want to turn YouTube on cuz I don't like the ads and stuff. And so I've got a DVD player

and stuff. And so I've got a DVD player and we go to there's a thrift store down the street from my house and there's DVDs and I will find the DVD and it's incredibly fun to like put the DVD in there and there's this new toy. Have you

seen this toy called um you you >> know what you're talking about? It's the

little red thing right that plays music that plays music.

>> Yeah. What's that called? Like the yuck box or yum like it starts with a Y.

>> Uh it they kill it.

>> It's called Tony's.

>> What is it? There's two of them. There's

one that starts with a Y as well. So

there's is it >> it's a in the it's called Tony's like the box and you put like a disc in it.

>> You put it's a it's a box and then you put a character on top like a record >> and then it just starts to play songs.

But actually you buy it and then it doesn't connect to your Wi-Fi cuz you don't have a two 2G connection. You only

have 5G. That's that's my story about with the Tony's.

>> It doesn't connect. Doesn't connect. You

got to have 2G. You got to have less G's. [laughter] I don't I don't I have

G's. [laughter] I don't I don't I have too many G's. Like I mean yeah I don't even have like 5G. I've got one above that I think. But they um like it's an incredible toy. Like I'm playing with

incredible toy. Like I'm playing with this and so we're actually I'm actually on the hunt for a boom box. I want to buy a boom box where you just put the CD in and a cassette tape and click play.

It's so fun. We've had so much fun in my house like doing some of this stuff.

>> Uh Tony's these guys crush by the way.

They do like like hundreds of millions. So Tony's uh let's see, is this the right thing?

Yeah. 510 million euros last 12 months.

510 million euros on this kid's boom box. Isn't that insane?

box. Isn't that insane?

>> Tony's. Uh, the other one is Yodo.

That's the one I got. Yo, T. Have you

seen Yodo?

>> No.

>> It's like the same thing. I don't know how they're different, but I just remember one time I typed in Yodo and it said like Yodo versus Tony's.

>> 127 million in revenue. Are you joking me? What? What's going on?

me? What? What's going on?

>> Crazy, right? It's It's an incredible toy.

>> This ridiculous. This makes me mad.

>> Why? It's pretty brilliant. Yeah, that's

what makes me mad that the brilliance was not mine.

>> Dude, I followed this guy on Instagram now who started um Poppy. I don't know how he came on my feed, but I saw him and I I thought it was me. He looks just like me, but he's better looking. Have

you seen what he looks like?

>> I [laughter] thought it was me. Hold on.

Poppy the drink.

>> Yeah, Poppy founder. The man. It's a

husband and wife. Look him up.

>> Let's see. Let's see. So, you thought this was you?

>> No. Click a video. Go to his Instagram.

>> Yes. Trust me. Go to his Instagram right now. I'm telling you. Look at the

now. I'm telling you. Look at the videos. I was like, "Am I really a

videos. I was like, "Am I really a billionaire uh CBG guy or what?"

[laughter] I said, "Want to do a video together? We

look alike." And he said, "Could be funny. Let's do it." [laughter]

funny. Let's do it." [laughter]

He's got a podcast. Better podcasting

probably.

>> I don't know if he has a podcast, but he just like does Instagram [ __ ] Um, >> dude, are you mad? This guy's just taking everything you work for.

[laughter] There can only be one.

>> And I was shocked at just like, do you know that Poppy sold for like two or three billion dollars >> and it started out as a probiotic soda?

The wor That sounds like the worst idea ever.

>> He lives in Austin. Oh my god, this guy's he's you.

>> Yeah, if he wants to trade spots, we could we could talk. Uh he uh just crushed it on that. And it's like the ultimate hack when you start a company with your wife and it works and you both

get all of the equity. [laughter]

Uh, yeah. That's crazy.

>> Is that it? Is that the pod?

>> All right, that's it. That's it. That's

the pod.