Oz Pearlman (Mentalist): This Small Mistake Makes People Dislike You! They Do This, They’re Lying!

I've spent three decades reverse

engineering the human mind to show you

how you can use it to know what

somebody's thinking when they meet you

or if somebody was telling you the truth

or lying. So, let's do something fun.

Imagine that in front of you was an

invisible deck of cards. Spread them out

in front of you. And I want you to reach

down and imagine you just grab a card at

random. Now, look at it. Look at me.

Okay, close your eyes. Hold your hand

out, please. Now, before you open your

eyes and tell us what was that card,

>> three of diamonds. H

>> open your eyes. Take a look.

[Music]

And it's not magic. I can't teach you

this. And these secrets, these habits,

they're applicable all throughout life.

Trust me, you don't want to miss the

rest of this.

>> O Pearlman walked away from Wall Street

to become the world's leading mentalist,

unlocking the skills we need

>> to read people, win trust, spot a liar,

and influence anyone.

>> My whole job is to make you believe that

I can read minds. But here is the honest

truth. That's impossible. But I read

people through small, minute details.

For example, we're hardwired from

thousands of years that if I approach

you directly with two eyes, it can

create fear versus if I turn ever so

slightly and approach you with one eye.

That one eye is less danger. So, it's

all about the smallest little nuances.

Like, think of someone, think of their

first name. I got it. Five letters,

isn't it? Tell us all what is their

first name.

>> Jules. So, this is a huge tactical

advantage when you ask your boss for a

raise or when you ask someone out on a

date. And I'll explain to you what to do

as well as how you form habits,

eliminating that fear of rejection, and

also the fast track for confidence. But

the next thing is how to improve your

memory, which is a huge secret to

success. And I have a tip. I've

repurposed the instructions on a shampoo

bottle. And the first step is what 95%

of us do wrong. So,

I see messages all the time in the

comments section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple, it's the free thing

that anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double check if you've subscribed and uh

thank you so much because a strange way

you are, you're part of our history and

you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank

you.

O Pman,

you're a guy who can apparently read

people's minds. In fact, the book you've

just written is called Read Your Mind:

Proven Habits for Success from the

World's Greatest Mentalist. So, for

anyone that isn't familiar with your

work and what you do, why did you name

your book Read Your Mind? And can you

read my mind?

>> So, therein lies the dilemma. My whole

job is to make you believe that I can

read minds. But here is the honest

truth. I can't read minds. I wish I

could read minds. That's impossible. I

read people. Very different skill. This

is built on the world of magic. What I

do. Misdirection, influence, suggestion.

Knowing how people think indicates to me

what they think. Right? I've spent three

decades reverse engineering the human

mind. I'm teaching you habits for

success because the skills that I have

at reading people effectively, walking

into a room, taking charge, influencing

them. All of the things surrounding the

entertainment portion are things that

apply to everyone. If you can use these

secrets, these habits, they're going to

lead you to success in your personal

life, in your professional life, in your

relationships. And that's what I've

done. I think that if I had done this

same playbook and not been a mentalist,

I'd be successful at any field. They're

applicable all throughout life. You

know, I'm pausing for one second because

someone listening to this right now, I'm

always thinking about the person there

watching us.

>> And why should they be watching me right

now? That's my question. Who cares about

me? I don't know me. They don't know me.

Why should they watch this? I've studied

you. That's what I do for a living. And

I have something for you. And on

Dragon's Day, I love when you make an

offer. I love the visual of the moment

where you can change someone's life,

right? A founder, you evaluate their

company. You make them an offer. So,

this is an offer, but

it's not for now. You have to stick

around till the end. If you open it now,

it will be meaningless. At the end of

this podcast, you're going to open this

piece of paper, and I think it's going

to be something you will talk about for

years to come. You know what? Put it

somewhere, maybe right under your mug

where it never leaves our site, and

we're going to come back to this later.

>> I'm going to put

>> You know what this is? It's your future.

>> This is my future

>> 100%.

Don't open. You don't want to know your

future yet.

>> And why should they stick around and

listen? Oh, because trust me, you don't

want to miss the rest of this.

Otherwise, you'll have to see the

highlights. Put it somewhere we see it

the whole time.

>> Okay. So, I'll put it I'll put it here

>> or under your mug or anywhere we never

lose sight of it. Wonderful.

>> I'll put my mug on top of it for anyone

that can't see cuz there will be some

people listening on audio. He's just

passed me a white piece of folded up

card and I've put it underneath my mug.

>> It's an offer. You can't refuse.

>> Listen guys, we're not colluding. So,

cuz I remember watching

I remember watching the Joe Rogan

episode and wondering whether you and

Joe Rogan had colluded.

>> Yep.

>> To like do the cuz it blew my mind. So,

my objective today is to be completely

honest with my audience. And also, if I

if I see you do something, do you want

me to say it?

>> For sure.

>> Okay. Do you actually want me to say it?

>> I mean, I guess so while I'm here.

>> Okay, fine. Okay.

>> I mean, they trust you. Why do people

listen to you? Great interview

questions, but they trust you. That's

how you build an audience. Yeah, I'd

feel bad if I if I duped them. And what

is it that you think you know that the

average person doesn't know about the

human condition?

>> I know how people think. So, I think

what I learned at a certain point were

skills that are for success in life. Let

me explain to you. The fear of rejection

is something that I think is the number

one factor between failure and success

is the fear. Most people don't try to

achieve their goals because they're

fearful of what will happen if they fail

or they set themselves up for failure

instead of for success. What do I mean

by that? When I was 14, I'd walk up to a

restaurant. I talked my way into getting

a restaurant gig because I've been doing

magic trick tricks since I was 13. And I

started learning by iterating what makes

people when I walk up to them

comfortable with me, what makes them

uncomfortable. I started learning how

people think. And it's down to the

smallest little nuances. I learned that

if I approach you directly, the same way

that animals fear you when they see two

eyes versus if I turn ever so slightly

and approach your table at an angle, you

only see one eye. We're hardwired from

thousands and thousands of years of

avoiding predators. That one eye is less

danger. Animals aren't as fearful of

you. So I walk up to you, I create time

limits. I learned quickly that if I walk

up, the first thing someone thinks is,

"Oh my god, is he going to be here

long?" The next thing is, "Do they even

know this kid's working here? Is he any

good at this? Oh god, I need money. Do I

have to tip him? I didn't bring cash.

All of these thoughts that go through

your minds. They're known as

heruristics. It's how we deal with our

life every day. And if you can know what

somebody's thinking, not to perform a

mentalist trick, but know what they're

thinking when they meet you or when you

ask your boss for a raise or when you

ask a girl or a guy out on a date, you

knowing that is a huge tactical

advantage.

>> And specifically, how would you do that?

What would you say? What I would say is

in my mind as a mentalist, what I do

most is prepare. I prepare in advance

for what will work, what won't work, and

all the troubleshoots in between. Plan

A, B, C, D, all the way to Z. So in that

situation, every time I learned

something new, I learned quickly that

people didn't know if I was working at

the restaurant. Am I just some kid who

walked up to you? Well, who is this? So

I walk at an angle so they know I might

be leaving soon. I'm one foot in, I'm

one foot out. I would then say to you,

did you hear what's going on tonight?

It's your lucky day. Right away, that's

a different thing. That's a dopamine

hit. That's the same way when your phone

buzzes. That's why we're hooked. Who

texted me? What does this say? Is this a

like? Is this a comment? That's that

lottery. By me saying to you a question

that denotes positive energy without a

yes or no. You don't have a way to stop

me. If I said, "Hey, do you want to see

me do magic?" No. Get out of here. Boom.

We're done. Asking people questions that

are open-ended, that are inherently

positive, almost always generates a

great response. Did you hear why it's

your lucky night? Oh, why is it my lucky

night? And I say, "The owner brought me

in as a special treat to do something

amazing for you." So now listen to this.

The owner, they know I'm working there.

The owner brought me in. I know the

owner. Social value, social currency, as

a special treat. That means you don't

need to pay me money. They've paid the

bill. Amazing. And then to show you

something amazing. So I've given you no

point at which to say no. I've given you

very few angles to think anything but

positive. And I've done this all in

hopefully less than 10 seconds. That's

the intro. Now, you better have your

agame. I better have a trick that's

going to blow them away and capture

their attention.

>> So, let's just pause there for a second

because I think everybody, whether

you're a content creator or you're

working in sales or you're interviewing

people um to join your company, what I

what I heard there was you you created

this like positive

curiosity gap.

>> Yes.

>> Where immediately and that's also what

Mr. Beast does at the start of his

videos. He

>> the hook instantly.

>> Yeah. I hate it's like a positive

curiosity gap where you you need that

gap closed. And you said in that case,

>> they brought me in. Have you heard

what's happening tonight?

>> Yep.

>> It's amazing. You've brought me in as a

treat to do something amazing.

Immediately I need to know what this is.

>> What is this?

>> And I don't want you to leave. And then

you'd blow them away somehow.

>> I'd blow them away. But the lessons to

be learned from there are things that

I've used for the rest of my life. And

they apply so much to today's day and

age where what is the currency of our

time? Attention. This very moment that

someone's listening and watching is can

allow you to blow up a business. We have

never been in an era where your phone

having a phone can allow you to become a

global superstar to launch a business.

It's it's like 100 years ago this didn't

exist this option. So knowing how to

connect with people on an emotional

level and then knowing what does your

audience want. That's what I learned

early on. I'm just knowing how people

think and using that to entertain them.

>> And how much of it is based on my body

language? How much of it of it is based

on how I behave? Um, and I say that

because the audience, you know, that

they're all professionals working in

their careers and they're very keen to

better understand people through

observation.

>> Sure.

>> Whether it's their team members or

whether it's clients or whoever it might

be. So, I'm wondering if there's

anything I can learn to be a better

observer of the people in my life.

>> Absolutely. So, for my performances,

let's break this down. I I'm an

entertainer. That's what I do for a

living. And now, after many years,

people ask me, "How do you do it? How do

you do it?" I've realized you don't want

to know how I do it. You don't really.

If I were to guess, let's do something

fun. You have a deck of cards. Yeah.

Let's just sweeten the deal. These are

your cards, correct? This is not I've

not touched these. There's no magic

trick involved.

>> These are all cards. Yes.

>> Here's what I'd like to try for you. Put

them down in front of you, please.

>> You've mixed them up. Do you want to mix

them some more?

>> Yes, I do.

>> Please mix them as much as you'd like.

>> Just say that cuz I just saw

>> No, don't say a word.

>> Okay, there you go.

>> The moment I touch those cards, my brain

flips a switch and goes, "This is a

magic trick. That's what I know. Oh, I

know that archetype. I'm not touching

those cards. I couldn't care less about

those cards. Imagine that in front of

you instead was an invisible pack of

cards. Stephen, this is where I changed

gears where years ago I spent hours and

hours learning slight of hand. Pick up

the invisible deck, please. Just

pretend. Just like that. And I want you

to spread them out in front of you face

down. You can't see them. And Stephen,

you close your eyes. You reach down. And

here's the part where we can't collude

because they're invisible and you don't

know what you're about to do, much less

me. And I want you to reach down and

imagine you just grab a card at random,

face down. Do it for me now, please. And

stop right there. Freeze. Have I told

you what to do at this moment? Have I

said anything? Is there any way that you

could know what card you just picked in

your hand or I could know or any of

this?

>> No.

>> No. This is spontaneous, impulsive, and

in the moment. It's the gold standard

for what I do. Don't say a word. Look at

it. Look at me. Just think. The cards

are red. They're black. There's the

hearts, the diamonds, the clubs, and the

spades. There's the number cards.

There's the big cards. Ace 2, 3, 4, 5,

6, 7, 9, 10, Jack, queen, king. Close

your eyes. That's it. I'm going to take

these cards that are next to you. Oop,

sorry. And I'd like you to keep your

eyes closed if you don't mind. And this

is not a card trick, but I want a visual

for your audience. Hold your hand out,

please. And hold it as if you were

holding one card in your hand. Keep your

eyes closed. Do not open them. I'm gonna

place one card in your hand. Close your

fingers and freeze right there. Before

you open your eyes, tell us what was

that card.

>> The

three of diamonds.

>> Open your eyes. Take a look.

>> It's very It is very very difficult for

me to understand how you do that. Now,

here's the question. So, I tell you

this. If I were to teach you that you

could do it, it would take you quite

some time and you'll learn. And it was a

narrowing down of a lot of options into

one, which is a lot of what I do. I

limit your options and I read what you

are giving off because there's no magic

trick. There's no slight of hand

involved in this. Are we in agreement?

This is an invisible deck. You took out

a card. Let's put these away. But here's

where I would say what's applicable is

knowing how to read people more

effectively in your life. Not for the

sake of a trick, but knowing what

they're actually thinking. Now, if

you're watching this and you said you're

a business person, you want a tangible

takeaway for body language. You ask

yourself, was there a body language

thing? Was there something that you did

specifically? Was there a flex of an

arm? Was there a twinge of an eyebrow?

Was there something that you can see?

There are definitely markers. But what I

would describe to people is for a lot of

people, they want to know a core thing.

Is someone interested? Yes or no? And is

someone lying? Yes or no? If you could

know those two things, I think that

opens up a world of possibilities. How

many major moments of your life had to

do with if somebody liked or was

interested in what you were doing, be it

in sales or business or or per personal

or if somebody was telling you the truth

or lying? The best way to learn if

somebody's lying to you is learning

their benchmarks. Let me explain to you

what that means. Meeting somebody one

time, it's very hard to know things

about them. One-time transactions, you

can't really gauge who they are as a

person. But how many people in your life

do you meet once? Few most of the people

you meet you meet often. So a lie

detector machine, have you ever been lie

detector machined?

>> Never.

>> So the way they work is they have to ask

you questions beforehand to set your

your your benchmarks. They have to check

and they see tell me an honest answer.

Is your name Steven Bartlett? Yes. They

look at your indicators to see what

honesty looks like. And then they look

to see tell me a lie. And now they try

to compare the two to each other. So,

what I do when I watch people and

observe is I try to see what do they

look like when they're telling me the

truth. And these are fun things you

could try at home. See when somebody

tells you a story, how many details do

they insert? What's their cadence,

right? How do they speak? You can tell

when people are lying more often than

not if you observe them often. You can

see it. Do they add more details? So you

can try to find fun ways that seem to be

white lies to see what do they do when

they lie versus what do they do when

they tell the truth and then start to

trust your instincts more. I think a lot

of things that I do I've unlearned bad

habits. I think that when we were

growing up most of us had much better BS

detection systems. When you're 2, three,

four, you know if your siblings lying to

you. You know if people are lying to you

very well. you're kind of very young and

there's an instinct involved that I

think is akin to when I play ping pong.

I can't think about my shot. I just do

the shot. I don't know how I did it. My

body just goes into motion. So when I'm

performing, I am the way people always

ask me, are you doing this in every

moment of your life? No. It's tiring.

I'm focused, hyperfocused on what you're

doing and the things that I'm watching

that will give away certain elements.

And I'm influencing you. there's

misdirection and I'm guiding you in a

certain position in a certain way to

what I want you to select.

>> Say I was trying to sell you something.

>> Sure. I'm I'm we're doing a

presentation. I'm a marketing agency

owner owner and I would like you to buy

this marketing campaign from me um

instead of this one or no campaign.

>> Sure. So, what are some things you could

tell me that I should be thinking about

or doing if I'm selling to you to make

you buy what I would like you to buy?

>> Number one rule, I call this channeling

your inner mentalist. It's not about

you. It's always about them. That's been

the number one secret to my success. I

shouldn't have been I've been on all

different networks doing what I do on

CNBC. I've been on there dozens of

times. That's the financial network. How

many other magicians or mentalists have

ever been on that network? zero. It

doesn't make sense. That's a serious

network. They do finance. Why are they

bringing me on? Because I tailor my

presentations to the viewer. I don't

think about myself. A card trick is

about me. Me doing something related to

stocks and bonds and and dividends and

interest rates. That is fascinating the

person watching. The same way if I go

into a room with football players, I

make everything structured on football.

So I challenge you that when you make a

presentation like that, are you just

thinking about you or where can you

highlight the attributes of what is this

person missing? What's wrong with what

their status quo is? What are you

missing? Listen to your listen to your

consumer. Listen to your client. Listen

to your audience. They will tell you.

They will give you the answers to what

you need to give back to them. So many

people when they approach someone else,

they approach with the following. How

great am I? How great is my product? Bum

bum bum. It's all about me, me, me. This

needs to be benefitsoriented language.

All of it should be you. I want to make

your life easier. I want to make this

migration to our platform seamless.

What's currently bothering you? I want

to know all the things that you that are

your moments of resistance. What's

resisting you from saying yes? And every

time you tell me one, I want to be

prepared to check that off. That's so

funny you mentioned that. It's I know

you want no downtime. Here's how we can

ensure no downtime. Right? You want to

anticipate what they're going to say the

same way a mentalist does. But in this

case, you're not guessing cards or

numbers or names. You're guessing the

thoughts of what's keeping them from

buying your product.

>> And is that a practice per se? Would you

like if this was, you know, if I was

pitching to you and you're the CEO of

Uber Y

>> and I want you to work with my agency.

Before I go into that meeting, you know,

you talked about preparation earlier on,

do you write down or just think about

the rebuttals or the person that you're

you're contending with and then try and

tailor the presentation to a set of sort

of ideological ego factors that that

that you believe that person's coming

into the room with.

>> Right? So I write down everything.

Literally at one chapter in that book is

all about how taking notes has changed

my life. So at every show and through

every interaction that I ever have with

somebody, I write down I had a show last

night, a show the night before. I will

write down I have a shortorthhand to

make it quicker, but I will write down

everything that I did, everybody that I

met, things that I remember about them.

And I will do this immediately when I

finish the show. If I might have a meet

and greet in photos, the moment it's

done, you'll sometimes see me in an Uber

in my hotel and I'm writing furiously

everything while it's still in my mind

and fresh because information is power.

And the number one thing that people

care about is themselves, their family,

their friends, their career, right? All

of us are the star of our own movie.

You're the star of your movie. I'm the

star of my movie. Right here, the

person, man, the camera is star.

Everybody else is supporting cast. So,

think of it this way. If you can

remember things about that person, not

creepy. What if they told you something?

Last night I met somebody. She has two

children. They're three and five. Her

oldest son absolutely loves this one

YouTube star. They live I know where

they live. Like she just shared a lot of

details with me that in her mind are

kind of like Snapchats. They vanished.

They didn't vanish to me. So now that

I've written those down, I might see her

in a month, in a year, in a decade. Do

you know how great that feeling is to

somebody when you remember things they

told you? It's like winning the lottery.

It's literally like you get to do a

magic trick like I do, but people give

you credit. I will remember at shows who

hired me for the show. Oh, they know

this person now. We have a chain. We

have a referral link. I might see them

again. I guessed their ATM pin code

three years ago. It was 6124. I now know

that. I bump into them there and I don't

have a supernatural memory. Another part

of the book is how to improve your

memory, which I think is also a huge

secret to success in life that people

don't realize. We have phones now. We

think our phone does it for us. That's

not true. And I say to him, I go, "John,

I sure hope you change that pin code

from 6124." He is blown away. Stephen,

do you understand? That's not a trick. I

wrote it down. There's no I'll tell you

exactly how I did it. All I did was take

the time to review it before I got there

and made him feel special. And do you

know what he's going to do? He's going

to talk about that moment for years to

come. I've created a memory. If you can

create memorable moments for others,

they will remember you and they will

spread the word to others. And that's

how you whatever you do in life. What

you do for others is what's going to

eventually propel you to success. I

would say give gratuitously. But the

more gratuitous you give, there's this

funny way in the world where the

universe bounces back and the more I do

for others, they want to do the same for

me.

>> If you were to make that really

practical for me. So you have a

shorthand book which you write in every

time you meet someone to keep details.

>> You can do it in your phone. I do in my

phone. So I have calendar entries. Let's

be very clear. Let's give you brass tax.

I will write in I if you look at my

phone right now, the event last night

set list. I wrote down the name of the

host, his wife. They have three

children. They have twins. Like

everything about this is very fresh in

my mind and I'll remember it for a day

but then it will kind of it will

dissipate. Which tricks did I do? What

happened in the tricks? What were funny

moments that were off the cuff? Who did

I meet earlier that day? I met somebody

and again I'm writing all this stuff

down because that information is power.

That information the longer you hold it

it's a coupon with no expiration date.

And when you serve it up to that person

in fact it's the reverse. The longer you

hold on to it the more impressive it is.

>> If I met you yesterday and you told me

your favorite color is magenta and I say

it to you tomorrow. Not that exciting.

But in two years if when I meet you and

we see a car I go Stephen that's your

favorite color magenta isn't it? Not as

a trick, just there in your mind.

Dopamine. How did you remember that?

You're touched that I remember that

about you, right? That's what people

care about. People think about again

their family, their friends, their

faith, their business, all of that. The

more that you can make someone else

shine, the better it happens to you.

Everything is about when I my whole act

is geared towards making other people

look good. I was thinking about this um

quite a lot and I actually posted on my

LinkedIn this morning about the paradox

of small things um and what I said in

the post it's reflecting on Jimmy

Fallon. I was on his show this week and

he mentioned that we have this tradition

at the end of the podcast with the

guests. It's a small thing that we do at

the end of the show. And the fact that

he remembered it and told his audience

about it and he said he brought him to

tears made me realize that actually the

small things in life um that we often

overlook like remembering someone's name

or and as you said their family or some

sort of intricate personal detail,

they're so powerful because most people

don't think they matter.

>> That's it. So when one person in your

life remembers a tiny detail about you

that kind of matters to you, even your

name is something that matters to you,

it's so shockingly rare that it's so

shockingly powerful because most people

think it's so unbelievably petty.

>> And this is the I think the paradox of

small things that they're actually in

fact really big things. Well, think

about how many small things if you were

to look at your life and just have these

little roads, these like fork in the

road where one path led to this and I

have those moments where in my life

where somebody said one thing to me

sometimes off-handed they don't even

remember it and it changed the course of

my life and there's like little moments

I had one so I worked on Wall Street. I

didn't think that you could be a

magician or mentalist. It's crazy that

it never even occurred to me as an

option. But at one point I had I there's

two moments, but one of the big ones is

I'm doing something for the CFO of my

company, Meil Lynch. He does not know

that I work for the company. And I used

to do this magic trick with slight of

hand where I take five $1 bills. I hold

them, I snap, they turn to hundreds.

It's amazing. It's it's a great trick.

And at that moment, he's an Australian

guy. And he goes he goes he goes, "We

need you working here, mate." And

everyone laughs. And you know, it's it's

it's a joke I've heard a hundred times,

a thousand times. And I go, "It's funny,

sir. I do work here." and he thought it

was a joke. I broke character a little.

I go, "No, no, seriously. I work at 95

Green uh at your global technology

services department." And he looked at

me, he goes, "What are you doing working

here?" And that moment to him, I assume

was nothing. It was forgotten moments

later. But that moment changed the

course of my life because there was like

a switch in my mind that was what am I

doing working here? You know, where you

kind of like can visualize your future?

Is this my path? Is this what I'm going

to do forever? Or am I going to decide

that you live one life and I'm going to

go for it? And I think for a lot of

people who are listening to this, I'm

not saying to quit your job, but you ask

yourself, look in the mirror, is this

what I want to be doing? And I think for

a lot of people, they might want more.

Whether that's their own business,

whether it's to climb the rung of a

ladder. And it's that moment that

somebody can change your life and take

action and decide, I'm going to do it,

but also formulate a plan, be effective

and smart in your execution.

>> And in your case, you know, leaving

Maril Lynch to go and become a mentalist

is quite quite a leap. I remember

>> huge leap. Everyone thought I was crazy.

Same with Darren Brown.

>> No one said to me, "Oh, this is a great

idea." Even though I've got to tell you

the truth, most people were very happy

for me. But behind closed doors, I think

they thought this kid, you know, he's

nuts.

>> You kind of were nuts because

statistically probabilistically the

chance of you becoming

a quote unquote successful mentalist is

extremely low.

>> Extremely low.

>> But I mean, like there's there's

probably like a handful of mentalists

that earn a lot of money.

>> I would say it's a very low number. But

here's the question you should ask

yourself. Why not you? That like the

framing of that is always of course

there's statistics but why not me? And

so I think the way you think in your

mind, the voice in your head that tells

you that loop determines things. So it's

all about setting yourself up for

success rather than failure.

>> How much of being a mentalist is

understanding human behavior versus

>> everything? I don't even know how to

answer. It's literally that's that's I'm

a student of the human like how people

behave. But the practice of it, because

Darren Brown is um I consider him a

friend. And if I've learned anything

from him, and I do think he's the most

incredible person on and off camera,

it's that much of his work is making you

think the trick is happening here.

>> 100%.

>> But actually, the trick is happening

happening over here. And he's

misdirecting you to focus on my left

hand and the trick is taking place in my

right hand.

>> That's that couldn't be more true.

That's exactly it. But that's that is

knowing human behavior.

>> Explain to me why. I don't want to say

controlling because it sounds very

devious, but I'm controlling your

attention and your thoughts. I'm guiding

you in a certain way to either select

what I'd like or to give away something

that you feel you have not given away.

Should we should we do a fun example?

>> Sure.

>> Do you know off the top of your head how

many episodes you've had of this show?

>> I think it's roughly 500,

>> I believe. So, close your eyes. I want

to make this a visual game. You're in

this room of all different people that

you've looked at, you've seen, that you

respect, okay? Some of them could have

been guests on the show

>> and then you get a tap on the shoulder.

You turn around, you look at this

person, and it's somebody you've met

before 100%.

And they say something to you. They've

said it to you before, and you get deja

vu, and it's something impactful. It

left an impression on you. Is that a

fair assessment?

>> Yeah. And that inherently right there,

boom, that makes you think of another

person. I don't know whether I don't

think they mentioned this other person,

but something about that takeaway or

that that thought or that moment of

clarity or wisdom made you think of

someone else in your life. It was

connected to them. This next person,

person number two, I'm calling. They

jumped over, open your eyes. When was

the last time you had spoken to that

person?

>> The person number two.

>> Yeah.

>> Um,

today.

>> Today. Okay. Let's let's lean into this.

Think of their first name. Count the

letters to yourself.

Don't say it.

>> Yeah.

>> And somebody you know well, you've

spoken to them today. I watched your

eyes. You went up up up up.

Five letters, isn't it?

>> Yeah.

>> You asked me how I do it. You said, "Do

I study people?" You just gave it away

yourself.

There's five letters to choose from.

There's 26 in the alphabet. Pick any

letter in this person's first name. Mix

them up a little.

>> Yeah.

>> And then you grab one out and you just

decide this is the letter I want to

focus on.

>> Yeah.

>> Now, knowing you, Knowing you as an

entrepreneur, knowing you, the way you

give interviews, I think I know what you

would want to do knowing that you know

Darren Brown. You know how some of this

works. So, your instinct was to go

against your instinct because you I know

this would be obvious. You didn't think

of the first letter, did you?

>> No.

>> You didn't want to. You thought that

would give it away.

>> Yeah.

>> Because once I know that, it's easier to

figure out the rest. And then I know

there's vowels in the name. And so

inherently you said that limits my

subset. You didn't do a vowel, did you?

>> No.

>> L. Are you thinking of an L?

>> No.

>> I got it. It's funny because by you

saying no, it means you gave away both.

I've written this down. Can you close

your eyes? For the viewers who are

watching this as a video, I'm going to

show them. And for everybody else to

know who's just listening in their

headphones while running or doing

something, this can't change what I

wrote down. Open it up. Open up your You

thought of an S but switched from the L.

Is that correct? Tell us all. What is

their first name?

>> Jules.

>> Jewels.

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>> You know, you walk into rooms and people

hear that you're a mentalist. So,

they're already like somewhat on edge.

>> Yeah.

>> And you can see you can see that they're

on edge, right?

>> Yeah. You got to sweeten it because

>> So, how what do you do about that? Cuz

everywhere you go, people are going to

be like, "Fuck, this guy might be able

to guess my you know, that's what

they're thinking. They're thinking he

can guess my bank pin, so I'm going to

give nothing away." So, you must be

meeting people that are like closed off

your entire life. How do you get them to

go from closed to open up?

>> I think it's being likable. So this,

think about it. If you met somebody who

could really read your mind and I can't

read minds, just I want to be clear

throughout the process cuz people say,

"Oh, what's he trying to teach?" I can't

read minds. I'm not psychic. I am not

supernatural. I don't claim to be. You

could do this. Maybe not as well because

I think there's an inherent talent. The

same as musical talent. I can't play a

guitar. I can't sing to save my life. No

matter how much training you give me, I

will never have the voice of Harry

Styles or Ed Sheeran. It's not in the

cards for me.

>> But you're tricking me to think that my

eye movements played a role.

>> So, I will tell you this. I am tricking

you to believe that certain things are

more important than others. Your eye

movements and body language play a role,

but whether it played a 10% role, a 50%

role, 100% role, that's 100% true. My

job is to misdirect you and to use

multiple methods. Yeah.

>> So that as soon as you go down a path

and you think you got me, I jump to the

next lane, I do it a different way.

>> There's also a possibility that 0% of

that trick you just did was about my

eyes.

>> I didn't say it was about your eyes,

though, did I?

>> You said you looked up the 1 2 3 4 5.

>> That is absolutely true. Try it for

yourself, though. Honestly, try it for

yourself. How many letters somebody

counts, if they have a long name, it

takes longer to process. You aren't

going to be able to use a name and

counting the number of letters in your

day-to-day life. So, if I were to show

you how to do it, you were to attempt it

and you were to get it right 75% of the

time, which you'd be shocked that you

would, you'd then go, "Now what? Who

cares?" Most of you are not going to

take and spend the next decades learning

mentalism. Rather, I'm going to try and

take the most important parts of

mentalism and show you how you can use

them.

>> Another huge one is just confidence. How

do people build confidence? When I was

14 and I started doing this, was I this

hyperconfident teenager? No. My folks

just got divorced. My life was pretty

tumultuous. I think I did this as a way

to not have to deal with all of the

trauma and kind of sadness. And

confidence gets built over time. So,

what's a better way to fasttrack that?

For a lot of people, you walk into a

room, you have to give a presentation.

Are you nervous as hell? I think most

people would say yes. Would you agree to

that?

>> Mhm.

What can you do tomorrow to get in there

and feel like you own the room the same

way I go on TV for a million people or

right now for millions? I think there's

so much of it has to do with there's a

panic that we have in us where we take

and we fear a certain feeling which is I

have certain things that I dread doing.

Like let's say I have to call someone

and give a call of things I don't want

to say. I have to I have to turn someone

down for something. I I hate that. I'm

avoiding it at all lengths. The same way

you procrastinate things you don't want

to do. I have this little trick in my

mind where what I do is I ask myself,

what will I feel like tomorrow about

this? What will I feel like tomorrow?

What if I could fast forward my feelings

to tomorrow? And instead of just, you

know, up in the air, try it right now.

What's something that you, the listener,

don't want to do? You don't want to call

someone. You don't want to deliver bad

news. You know, this person's about to

ream you out. You're avoiding it at all

costs. You're moving in your calendar to

tomorrow, the next day. You keep doing

that. Do it now.

And I want you to set an alarm 24 hours

from now. Put it in your in your I'm not

I'm for real. Put an alarm that says

tomorrow. Write down how you feel about

this scale of 1 to 10. Right when you

finish the call, you're going to feel in

the dread before you're going to feel an

8 n 10 of dread. The next day when the

alarm goes off, ask yourself, "How do I

feel?" Most of the time you feel

nothing. Two or three. It's out of

sight, out of mind. So, what if you

could trick your brain the same way I

tricked you to think your eye movements

have anything to do with it? Trick your

own brain to see how you feel a day from

now. You feel nothing. So, what if you

can just start doing that to yourself?

Rewire your brain and say, "I'm going to

feel nothing in a day. Screw it. I'm

going to do it now." And just that trick

of getting over procrastination builds a

tremendous amount of confidence. Another

one is I would walk up to tables and

people would kick me out. They'd be

like, "Get out of here. Good dude. K."

They wouldn't pay attention to me.

things that would hurt my feelings. So

what I did is I created in my mind some

way where I have two separate

personalities. This guy was O's the

entertainer, O's the magician, now O's

the mentalist. This guy was O's

Pearlman. They don't know the real me.

That's a different guy. So when I walked

up to a table and got turned down or

rudely rejected, instead of me feeling

that pain in myself,

I pushed it somewhere else. And I go,

you know what? They didn't like the

entertainer. That's a different guy.

That's not me. And so the same way that

if you took right now a bowl of water

right here and we poured salt in the

water, it's salt water. But what if we

could take an invisible small piece of

plastic and put it right down the center

and now you pour all the salt in one

side. This side is immune. This is fresh

water. If you can do that in your own

mind, the same way that I use my tricks

to trick your mind, trick your own mind,

that will take away the sting. Because

so many of us, we don't go after our

goals because we're scared of what

happens if they don't work out. It's all

about accountability. You fear the

rejection. And if you can get over that,

it is a superpower in life. The same way

you asked me, "How did you know it was

going to work?" Because I stopped

thinking about it not working. And

people that have that singular focus on

making something work, those are the

entrepreneurs. Those are the people that

you see achieve. Those are the athletes.

Those are the people who have a

hyperfixation and focus on a goal that

they will make it happen. They manifest

it.

>> And what about communication? Your

communication style and how important

that is. Like what what are you thinking

about when you're communicating as an

entertainer to make sure people are

paying attention and they're engaged?

>> Be watching the audience all the time.

The audience never lies. So you have to

really assess what the audience is

throwing at you. And I'm seeing people

and I'm seeing are they interested? Are

they on the edge of their seat? Are they

leaning forward? Indicators of interest.

Are they sitting back and checking their

watch? Are they yawning? Obviously, you

can't do this with everybody. When I'm

in a room with a thousand people, maybe

one guy's hung over. Maybe their baby

didn't sleep last night and they had a

redeye flight. I can't know everyone,

but I can watch individuals and see how

they're reacting to me. And I can

quickly change and pivot and see how I

can continue keeping their attention.

And if I was listening to this right

now, am I turning it off? Am I fast

forwarding? Am I getting tangible

takeaways? If I get three things from

this that I can put into action

tomorrow, this is smash success. Because

if I get one thing that somebody says to

me, like one tidbit that they say, I

feel like that can change your life.

Then take action. I'm all about action

because I think in so many instances

there's no accountability. Inspiration,

motivation is garbage. I could care less

if I've inspired you. I want action.

What is your goal? Do you want to lose

weight? Do you want to make a certain

amount of money? Are you making a

million dollars next year? Is that

really going to make you happy? So, a

lot of the time we make goals that we

think of, but then we get them. You

know, I have made more money in the last

10 years than if you'd asked me 10 years

ago, I dreamt possible. Does that make

you happy? It makes life easier, but I

don't think it's just pure fulfillment.

I know a lot of people that are very,

very wealthy and they aren't happy. I'm

around a lot of wealthy people. It's

just a nature of my thing. And and I

asked myself, they're billionaires and

if this isn't making you happy, what is?

I don't think that money is always the

goal that you should attain. I

understand why I didn't have a lot of

money as a kid. So that was like a

barometer of success for me. But as I

have kids and as I see that life is

short and feel my mortality, I realize

some things are much more important than

money. But if you have a goal, let this

be the cue. Not to inspire you, but to

literally take action right now. What is

it that you want to do? I somebody

talked to me the other day said, "Man, I

love watching you run. I would love to

run." Stop. Start running tomorrow. Put

a reminder in your calendar. Literally,

tomorrow my first run. Then put one 30

days from now to make sure you're

accountable and then decide what makes

you accountable. For me, I don't like to

be embarrassed. So, I'm going to write

to 10 people that I know and tell them

I'm signing up for a 10K. So, that now

if I don't go through with it, it's

going to come up in a future

conversation and they're going to say,

"Hey, Steve, whatever happened with the

10K?" Now I have to eat humble pie with

10 different people and say to them, you

know what, I didn't do it. Oh, oh, okay,

you didn't do it. I want that to be my

motivator. Maybe your motivator is

internal, maybe it's external, but find

what motivates you and use those levers

to generate action.

>> You know, in your profession, a lot of

the like with Darren Brown, a lot of it

is he'll make you think that, like we

said earlier, like it's it's my right

hand, but actually it's my left.

>> Yep. Like how do you contend with being

someone who whose job it is to sort of

misdirect me to make me think it's my

right hand, not my left or whatever, but

then also

trying to give people information that

will make them successful in their

lives.

>> Right. Well, the ethics of it. I'm not

trying to sell you anything about being

a mind reader or a mentalist. This is a

separate pursuit. The skills surrounding

everything I do, those skills, it's like

how to win friends and influence people.

It's a book I've read over and over and

over. It's it's I don't want to say it's

dated, but it's of a different era. The

skills that allowed me to reach near the

top of my profession aren't the tricks.

There's other people that can do that.

There's other people that can do this.

There's other people that can guess your

card. So, what led me to here? Do I do

it better than them?

>> I'll let you decide that.

>> My secrets to success are the exact same

ones you can apply to your life. That's

the key. The fact that I've made it

about them, not me. How have I been on

all these TV shows? How have I had such

a wide diversity? Has nothing to do with

performing? It has to do with me turning

the mirror around. The moment you

realize that you will be successful in

your life when you start making other

people the star, thinking about them,

thinking about what's going on in their

head, that's true mentalism. What are

they thinking and how do I deliver on

that? How do I make them look good? How

do I make them like me more? How do I

win them over so that when the moment

comes for them to recommend somebody or

to give them a raise or do something,

they know that you're the person that

they think of first? And I think those

skills, again, I wouldn't, it's not

really mentalism, but it's the exact

same tools that I use. It's not guessing

numbers or names. It's knowing how to

influence others. And if I wasn't able

to influence people, none of the things

I just did would work. You would just

say, "No, I'm not going to do that."

on the skill of listening, which I I

think is also so important to what

you're saying there about being likable

and winning people over. Do you have a

system or a framework for being a great

listener? You talk about it a little bit

in the book near the end. I think you

have five ways to become a better active

listener.

>> Yes.

>> Can you run me through those?

>> Sure. Should I give you a funny story

that kind of led this off? So, I did a

party for Steven Spielberg.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, it was his father's 99th birthday.

It was pretty intimate affair.

I was noticeably nervous in my mind, not

for the performance, but to meet Stephen

Spielberg. So, he defined an era of my

childhood and I feel likely for a

billion or several billion other people.

So, at the end of the show, he comes up

to thank me and I'm I'm ready. I was

able to ask Steven Spielberg

zero questions. Do you know why? He

talked to me the whole time. He kept

asking me questions rapid fire, this and

about my life and about what drove me

and this. And I just wanted to keep

being like, "Pause. I got questions for

you. You're Steen Spielber. He made it

all about me. All about me. And I

learned it that day that that it's a

greater power to listen. And that the

most interesting person in a room tends

to be the most interested person in the

room. And that some of the people I've

seen that are the most successful, the

most authentic and genuine, they will

look you in the eye. They will lock in.

They will not be looking around at other

people. And they will give you their

100% undivided attention. And they will

ask you questions that other people

haven't asked you before. And I

challenge you, don't just do the normal

question when you meet somebody. Oh,

what do you do for a living? Oh, what?

We as soon as we do that, we go into

autopilot. I go into autopilot. And I'm

not judging you. Most people do that,

right? 50% of people have to be below

average, right? And and 49.9% are above

average. that's inherently the challenge

yourself to be the outlier and think of

a question you can ask someone if you

have time to think of it in advance or

in the moment that throws them out of

autopilot that makes them think, "Wow, I

haven't really thought of that before."

Asking questions that are not yes or no

questions are also great. Ask questions

that let them explore who they are. I

think that's a big part of active

listening. And I let the audience guide

me to what's of interest to them. When

we walked in here today, I said to think

of a favorite of of a category. If I

knew the category, would I be able to

guess what the answer was?

>> No.

>> What is the question? You know what?

Tell it to me. I don't even want I don't

want to write anything down. I want you

to just say it out loud. Give me the

question. What is the question that you

have defined the answer to? Give me that

question. Ask it to me. What is my

favorite

>> car?

>> What is my favorite car?

>> Yeah.

>> And you think there's no way I can know

that? No prior research could have

alerted me to it.

>> No prior research. No.

>> You decide the same way that you did

with jewels. I want you to think of the

name of the car, whether it's the brand,

whether it's the make, and I want you to

pick one letter out from anywhere from

from is I'm assuming it's more than one

word unless you just said Ford. I again

I don't want to lead you, but if it is

more than one word and if it's two,

three, four words, decide on one of the

words. Have you decided on one of the

words?

>> Yeah. One of the words.

>> Don't say another word. Now, see, just

saying that was interesting. Decide on

one of the words.

>> Yeah.

>> And pick one of the letters. Something

interesting to you. Grab the one letter

and just focus on that one letter.

>> Yeah.

>> You have it.

>> Yeah.

>> Now, you asked me. You said it's all

misdirection, right? The eye movements.

This all just window dressing. But you

just gave something away. You said one

of the words with a question

because you were confused. You didn't

know what to do.

If it was only one word, I would never

have said that if it was three words.

Why would it be one of the words? Of

course, it's one of the words. So, you

did one and then I think

this one went through your head. You

read you went to the last Did you think

of the last letter

of it?

>> No.

>> Okay. So, that would have been my first

guess, but now that you didn't, I'm

going to go back.

Are you thinking the letter Y?

>> No.

Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini. That's

not like you.

Close your eyes.

Open your eyes. I've written it down. I

can't change my mind.

>> What car is it?

>> It's uh It's my Cyber Truck.

It is your cybert truck. That's what I

thought it would be.

Yeah.

>> Yeah. I was thinking of the letter T.

>> T.

>> I did originally think of Y.

>> You did?

>> Yeah. And then I moved to to T. Yeah.

>> If I got it right every time, it would

be a magic show.

>> So sometimes when you perform, you

things must go wrong. Sometimes

>> it depends like what level they go wrong

at what scale.

>> Yeah.

>> If it goes destructively like

catastrophically wrong, it's not always

good.

>> Tell me a time when it went

catastrophically wrong.

>> Oh, so you can dig up old TV appearances

uh from 15 years ago where just you know

purely I started learning that if you do

something linear, which is if I show you

my hand and tell you where this is

going, then you have the power. What do

I mean by that? If I said, "I'm going to

guess this and then I get it wrong, then

you know I got it wrong."

>> What if you don't know the ending of the

movie? Then if I show you an alternate

ending, you don't know that the movie

wasn't supposed to end that way. So, I

learned early on that I'm not going to

let you hold the cards. I hold the

cards. So, when you even the the the

notion of get it wrong means you knew

what making it getting it right was.

Does that make sense? Yeah.

>> But what if you don't know what getting

it right was because I'm

>> doing so many different things at once

that I will eventually find a way to get

it right.

>> Mhm. You see what I mean?

>> Yeah. And have you learned any ways to

break the ice in social situations? You

I think you talk about you do you talk

about this a little bit in the book, but

um you you one of the ways that you

talked about is object sort of handling

the objection that you're assuming one

has approaching from a different angle,

but just generally in life when you meet

these people and you're trying to disarm

people.

>> Yes.

>> Is there anything else that is worth

knowing there that people can use for

their in their everyday lives?

>> I like having an inner monologue out

loud. So, I like to take things that I

know everyone is thinking

>> and open up, show some vulnerability.

So, a great way, you're in an

uncomfortable social setting. What do

you want to do? You want to shut down?

You want to be here? I think walking up

to somebody has a real power and say,

"I'm so nervous. I don't know anyone

here. Do you know anyone here?" Like

that moment of opening yourself up and I

don't want to call it oversharing

because some people take that to too

much of a degree and start, you know,

telling you too much, but showing that

you are a real person and vulnerable. I

think just it's a it's a magical quality

and I've had people that do it to me

that you gain an intimacy and a

familiarity with them very quickly that

you wouldn't have if we were just small

talking each other. Have you ever met

those people that have that instant

charisma that when they walk in the room

everyone gravitates towards them? And

you don't know what that is. What is

that quality they have? Did they train

it? Is it innate? Are they born with it?

>> Um for me I didn't have that. So I

cheated and started doing magic tricks.

I remember Jimmy Carr saying to me that,

you know, people think comedians are

depressed or whatever, but he said a

better question to ask is always, who

are you trying to cheer up,

>> right?

>> And I wonder if that's relevant at all

to your situation.

>> I think I was trying to connect with

people.

>> Yeah.

>> I think that I was nervous, a little bit

awkward. I wasn't introverted. I had no

problem walking up to strangers, but I

think that it became this just uh this

addiction

>> to watching people being amazed and

overjoyed in the reactions. I live for

the reactions. Some people that do

magic, they do it for themselves in a

guilty way. I kind of do as well because

there is a selfish angle to seeing

reactions. But to me, it's more the joy.

And to this day, what I like to say that

I do for a living is not deceive. My job

is not to fool you. My job is to create

memorable moments. Not amazing moments.

Amazing is a subset. Memorable. Because

if I amaze you and you forget it, I have

failed. I failed. It's the same as if I

walk into a movie that's an action

movie. I eat a lot of popcorn. I walk

out. 10 minutes later you say to me,

"What was the movie about?" I don't

know. Right? That I don't know. And a

month later you ask me, "Have you seen

that movie?" And I go, "Did I see that

movie?" That right there, that response

is the death for what I do. apathy

>> and in the book in page 166 you talk

about improving one's memory

>> yes

>> what do I need to know why does it

matter to improve my memory and in what

way does improving my memory help me to

connect with other people so we've

gotten to the point where we don't need

our memory right a lot of people don't

know how to drive to a place a city next

door they literally with if GPS went out

good luck right you don't know anyone's

phone numbers how many people's phone

numbers do you have memorized

>> few and far between

>> one.

>> Exactly. Tomorrow your iPhone goes away.

No, no, no Apple, no cloud, you're

screwed. You're screwed. Am I right? If

you can't get that back, your life is.

So, what do we need our memory for? I

think memory is a superpower because no

one expects you to have it anymore.

Years ago, you need now you don't. So,

I'm going to give a great example, one

that I have in my book, which is

something applicable where you can't

cheat. Cheat is I have my phone. And I

feel a lot of us, whether we're parents

or kids or teens or any stage of life

you are, you're going to meet new people

at some point soon. You meet them, you

shake their hand, you say hello, you

just forgot their name. Literally, they

just said it to you, and you forgot it.

How many times this occurred to you? I'm

guessing numerous. And now you can't

enjoy that conversation because all you

do is feel dread. Now you're looking for

someone around that you know to

introduce them and pray to God. You go,

"This is Steven. Say hello." Like, tell

them your name. You know, you want that

moment. So, I have a a a trick, a tip

for that specific situation, as well as

others for memory, but I've repurposed

the instructions on a shampoo bottle so

it sticks in your head. Shampoo bottles

have three words on the back. Lather,

rinse, repeat. Right? Lather makes your

hair smell good. Rinse cleans your hair.

Repeat, we got to sell more Pantene

Prov. So, we all know that. Everyone

knows lather, rinse, repeat. I will

describe it as this. Listen, repeat,

reply. Listen, repeat, reply. So easy.

The first step sounds silly. It's

comical. Why am I even saying this? The

first step is what 95% of us do wrong.

We don't actually listen. When you hear

that person's name, it's not a memory

issue. You never even knew the name to

begin with. Because right when you

walked up to them, just like a computer,

read, write. Very hard to read and write

at the same time for our brains. You

were thinking of something else. you

were thinking of what you were going to

say back to them in most instances. So

at that moment, the number one thing to

do is actually listen, quiet your mind.

So simple, so easy, but that's we screw

up. Right when I walk up to you, I make

sure that I've heard your name because I

instantly repeat it twice. Stephen, is

it Steve or Steven? I want to make sure

I've just said your name three times

already. Your chance of forgetting it

have gone down dramatically. The last

one is reply, which is use one of the

three following tactics. one, you could

learn how to spell it. You have a name

that can be spelled. So I go, is it

Steven with a V or a PH and you with a

V, I go, I like Steven with a V better.

That's the right way. Am I right? So now

I've associated it Steven with a V. If

it's not a name like that, if it's, you

know, Jacob, you're not going to spell

that. I'm going to say to you, uh, I

might comment. I go, Jacob, I love that

shirt. Where'd you get that from? The

V-neck. Jacob, really sharp. So now I've

created a visual hook. You're Jacob with

the V-neck shirt. Now I remember you.

Third one is is if you want you can do

something that's a connector to someone

else you know. So if I know a Stephen

it's so funny you know my sister's

dating a guy named Stephen. Small world.

So you've really quickly connected it.

That happens in 5 seconds what I just

said. Everyone likes a compliment.

Everyone likes a hook. You will not

forget that person's name for the rest

of the party. I promise you. And this

works on people of all ages. It's not a

memory issue. If you can remember your

best friend's name, you can remember the

name of somebody you met at a party

after five seconds if you practice and

do exactly what I just said. And I think

a huge part of it as someone that does

meet a lot of people is you go into the

the meetings with people and because you

don't really think the small stuff

matters. You don't think most people

don't think someone's name matters that

much. They think they're walking into

the presentation, they're pitching for a

million dollars. They're thinking about

the campaign. They're thinking about,

you know, how they're going to structure

the offer. They're not thinking about

the name being pertinent. So, you walk

in, you shake hands. Hi, Deborah. Nice

to meet you, Deborah. You walk to your

chair, you're still thinking about the

campaign, the campaign, the campaign,

and within 3 minutes, you've lost their

name. And um I do think it really has a

huge impact when I when I was reading

your book, I was thinking like, do you

know what? I don't do a good job of

that. I meet loads of people all the

time. I walk up, I say my name, they say

theirs. For me, that's not important

information,

>> right?

>> Um and and I thought, you know,

>> until you get it wrong, and then then

that's the memory they carry of you. I

would say to people, if you don't know

someone's name,

>> we think that it's a dreadful thing to

ask them again. It's an avoidable thing

with this, but I would still say that

you still showing interest and there's a

few tactics around it, but say, "Forgive

me, but I really would like to know. I

don't know why it slipped my mind. Tell

me your name again, please." I think

even that is a much better way to play

it because again, you're human, they're

human, everyone's vulnerable. I don't

think there's anything wrong with that.

So, I'm okay with letting people know

that there's a human side and humanize

it. And sometimes if I can figure it

out, I will. But I'll say, "Give me a

clue." And I go, "Help me out. Tell me

where he's like, "Oh my god." And

sometimes I have a memory hook and I'll

remember who introduced us. I go, "Oh, I

met you through Steven."

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And what else? What else should we

should my audience know about? You're

someone that focuses on the audience.

What else should they know about that

you think can directly improve their

life?

I mean, I've given you a lot of like the

core tenants that I think have made me

successful, which is eliminating that

fear of rejection, utilizing notes,

making it about other people. Uh, I

think I think wrapping things up in a

story is a huge one that we touched upon

lightly, but that

>> why why a story?

>> Because stories are remembered. Stories

are interwoven into our DNA. Each of us

have a story to tell. I think such a big

one is deciding what makes you

memorable. The more that you can become

memorable to others, the more people

talk about you, it benefits you no

matter what you do in life. When you

meet somebody, know that you're going to

weave the narrative of what they leave,

what they think of you, right? You have

to kind of their memory is malleable.

There's a trick I used to do when I was

a teenager where I would have somebody

pick a card. It was a card trick. They

would put the card back in. They would

sign it. I would throw it on the

ceiling. The deck would fall down, but

their signed card stayed stuck on the

ceiling. But when they described the

procedure back to someone else, they

would leave out the part with me

throwing the deck. Why did they forget

such an important detail? And I I

couldn't understand why. It's not that

their memory was faulty. Something

happened. I realized what it was. What I

put my attention on, they put their

attention on. Like everything in life,

if you're focused on the negative, you

start to feel negative. I when I threw

the deck up, sometimes wouldn't look up

with it. I would throw the deck up. I

wouldn't look and then I'd catch it.

Such a small minute detail. But me doing

that meant I caught the deck. No one

knew what happened. And I let them

look up and discover the card themselves

rather than me do it. Somehow in that in

their brain, they deleted that one

detail of me throwing the deck. And now

I had a miracle. And that changed my way

of thinking from there on out. Which I

said to myself, it doesn't matter what I

do. It matters what people remember. And

what's the story they tell others?

>> The thing I really learned from that is

that your focus is driving someone

else's focus. So when I'm, you know,

when I'm going through my life,

I need to make sure my focus is in the

right place, the place that I want you

to it to be. And I notic that sometimes

as a podcaster because obviously so I'm

trying to manage this conversation and

I've got these notes written in front of

me. I've got pens, books, props. I've

got a little net under front of me that

has photos in it and other bits and

pieces and all this stuff. And I do

notice that during the podcast

conversation, if I don't look up at the

guest and I start looking down a little

bit or even if I'm just looking down to

see my next bullet point or to think

about something,

>> right,

>> I distract the guest. But it also in

everyday life, the other thing that I

think we're all guilty of, and you talk

about this in your book, is um

we sometimes reach for our phone a

little bit,

>> right?

>> Your card story, that's what it said to

me. It said that, oh my god, people's

focus really is where your focus is. So

if I'm having a great conversation with

you and you're a client or something and

I just glance at my watch, you just did

it then with me again. You just glanced

down at my hand,

>> right?

>> And I never realized until you said that

card thing how important it was to make

sure my focus is in the right place.

your focus is in the right place but

also know the fact that your memory is

malleable. So in my profession I employ

all different tactics. I can tell you

one is confusion. Your brain is it's

very difficult for your brain to read

and write at the same time. So if I want

to distract you from a method and I

confuse you then it's exactly like an

etch a sketch. Maybe you've drawn a

picture and the moment you get confused

and you uh you forget what you just did

exactly and the etch of sketch has just

been shaken and now you can't recount

the series of events properly and at

that moment you've now created this

beautiful watercolor painting that

hasn't dried. I can move some of the

pieces around and I can redraw your

picture a little bit and I can change

your memory of what it is. I during

certain points when I'm performing and

this has to do when you talked about

public speaking and storytelling, I tell

you the story that you're going to tell

others and I take out the pieces I want

out. I want this gone. I want this gone.

I want this gone. I'm going to edit your

memories.

>> Give me a specific example.

>> Well, that's that's a nature of what I

do. So in in a certain routine again

what I would ask someone if I asked

somebody to think of someone important

to them and then later on I guess the

name of their first kiss

they will forget how the question was

orchestrated how I set up the initial

ask and what happened during the initial

ask and then the story they will tell to

someone else is I don't know how but he

guessed my first kiss. Now when they

tell that story he goes he told me to

think of anyone and and I thought of my

first kiss and he guessed it. What if I

didn't? What if I narrowed it down and I

actually told you to think of your first

kiss? But the initial question was think

of anyone and see all those people

swirling around your mind and then one

person comes up to you haven't seen

since elementary school. First girl you

ever kissed, you you were blown away.

Now the people that watched it have also

seen a different effect. It's known as a

dual reality. The reality one person

experiences is different than the other.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. If you walk in to a conversation

in the middle, you don't know the

context, but you know the ending.

>> Yeah. So I'm using that because again

when you tell me the methods of

mentalism, mentalism is all about group

dynamics, the way people think. If I was

performing for you in a group, it would

be utterly different and completely

easier. This one-on-one interaction is

far more difficult because I have no

lanes to weave around. It's like if I

was passing you in a car on a four-lane

highway, I've got space right now. You

and me are locked in. It's very

difficult for me to use others cuz the

way you feel next to someone else,

you'll behave differently than by

yourself. And you're someone that, you

know, started doing this at a very young

age and has developed and evolved their

skill set over time. And so you've got

five kids. And I'm I'm wondering how

important you think obsession is to get

to the very top. You've got to

>> It's a blessing. It's a blessing. If

somebody can find an obsession,

>> you've got to the top of an industry

where very few people get to the top of.

And even if they do, they don't end up

on the biggest platforms in the world.

So, thinking about the characteristics

of your success, um, for this kid, it

was obviously obsession was a huge part

of that, right?

>> Yes.

>> How old were you in this photo?

>> Uh, probably 14. Probably right when I

started a restaurant. That looks 14 to

me.

>> Okay. 14 then. And you're 43 now.

>> That's right.

>> So, you've been doing this decades and

decades and decades.

>> The majority of my life.

>> How important do you think that is to to

reach the top of any industry?

I don't know if I would say the time

matters as much because I've seen people

that are phenoms in much in much like

more compressed times. I don't want to

say that you need your 30 years.

Passion. The people that excite me the

most to be around in my life. The people

that I look up to and I'm on the edge of

my seat always have a passion. I don't

care what that's for. I don't care if

you are uh you know a trash man and your

obsession is is trash. Like something

that I would never think about. I've met

so many people where they have a topic

that meant nothing to me at the moment,

but once I start speaking to them, their

level of excitement, their their feeling

like the fact that they're so invested

makes me feel invested.

>> But to hone your skills to the point

that you can reach the peak of a

mountain. I was speaking to someone

called DJ EZ, and he was saying to me,

he spends seven hours a day, he's a

great DJ, and when I watch him, it's

like watching a magician play the decks.

And he said to me he spends seven hours

a day, sometimes listening to 700

different new tracks a day, just

listening to 20 seconds of each. And I

don't think people often get to see that

level of obsession. They see people sat

here, but they don't get to see the all

the like the messy journey to here,

>> right?

>> And I think it's so important to show

them what that messy journey to here

looks like because then they can decide

for themselves in their own life if

whatever thing they're pursuing is worth

the trade. Like is it worth it to sit

here and to be who you are now for like

that? You say worth it as if it's a

negative thing. I I think it gave a

definition to my life. I think that to

have a passion is something so few of us

I've hit the lottery in life. I get to

meet interesting people. I get to bring

joy. I get to live my dream. Everything

I do is of my own valition. Like I I

couldn't I don't even know how I'd

complain for an iota of a second. I've

won the lottery times the lottery times

the lottery. I I don't know. I It's not

even my profession. I have a mindset

where I could die tomorrow, right?

Everybody who doesn't think that way

that you don't have gratitude for today

is like I don't know. I'm a natural

optimist. I just think that

>> But I mean, what does that actually look

like? Cuz I No one no one was there to

see those what 30 20 30 years.

>> How much work was there? And is it like

you were doing it part-time? Is it free

time? Is it the shower? Are you thinking

about it in the shower? Is it

>> So I think I've been thinking about it

for decades. And now even now I it

consumes my thoughts at certain points

in time even though I try to try to also

be present in the moment. It's not like

a absolute obsession. 7 hours a day is

pretty rough but the muse of creativity

comes to me and and it's so fulfilling.

It's the same way like this book putting

this book on paper you you're an author

as well was such an exceptional

challenge because my thoughts and then

crafting them onto the page into words

and also at the end of the day who cares

about me? I I always have this mindset

of I need to prove to you. I don't come

from the assumption of you should watch

me because I'm great. I have an inverse.

I said I need to define to you why you

should be watching, why you should be

listening, why this should excite you,

why this should amaze you. Hopefully, it

inspired you to take action and you got

something tangible that will provide a

value in your life. And I wouldn't have

written the book. Trust me, the the book

I didn't need to write this book. I

wrote the book because so many people

had said to me, "We want to know what

helped you achieve success." And they're

fascinated by this pursuit. And I think

that was it. I just was driven by the

people around me that they said you

should write this. And I felt I finally

had a story to tell.

>> And what's the one thing about your

success and your new life that

if this guy knew he may have hesitated a

little bit to pursue the life that you

now have?

>> I think being very busy and success has

its pitfalls. If you assign your

self-esteem to something others can give

you, be it fame, be it money, be it

things that are intangible and that can

be taken away and you don't define your

self worth by something internal like

your own drive, competing against

yourself, creating your own goals, then

it's fleeting. Fame, for example,

there's going to be ups and downs. Every

career has a life cycle. Right now,

things are going very well. There's no

question that a certain point the peak

hits and now you go down. And it's

inevitable. And I don't think about

that. I'd like to continue the peak or

continue climbing and climbing climbing.

But when that happens, I'm aware of it

and I will not. It's not a something

that will define who I am. This is part

of it. I think having outside interests

and challenging yourself outside your

comfort zone for me, ultramarathons,

marathons, athletic pursuits that cannot

be bought. They must be earned. And I

think that's something we value more and

more in our day-to-day life because

again there's influencers, there's

people, there's followers, there's all

this stuff that I don't want to call

fickle,

but it can be bought. What can be

earned? Earned are things that you this

has been earned by you. This has been

you putting in sweat equity for decades,

believing in yourself. Each time you get

a big guest, you harness your momentum

and get a bigger guest. You've earned

this. You've created a team around you.

I think that's something notable and

that people should decide what's your

goal and as you strive towards it that's

where you feel the fulfillment for me

it's been being on the road like the mo

biggest negative is being away from my

children and wife and that's success and

I can't not do that if I want to be

successful I have to be gone a lot and

so I have to find that balance between

the two of having my kids miss me but

also creating a life for them in the

future and also juggling the fact that I

have you know major career ambitions

>> and is there anything else that my

audience might be able to take away an

action in their own lives that is in

line with maybe this this David Gogggins

quote on the front of your book learn to

master the most powerful weapon your

mind is there anything else that my

audience should be aware of so that they

can show up better in their lives um in

the pursuit of their goals

>> I think defining your goals is huge

looking yourself in the mirror and being

honest and seeing what that voice really

says to you because I just like

everybody else have had feelings of

inadequacy feelings of I'm not going to

be able to pull this off and it's not

that it's not as if I'm there's a

superhuman thing of I'm you know I'm

putting my head down I'm going to get

through it like Gogggins doesn't stop if

you ever met him he is a machine he's

amazing but he goes out and he'll tell

you he's the first one who doesn't go

want to go out and run when it's raining

and cold and freezing but you know why

he does it because he didn't want to do

it that's where the real work is when

I'm doing a workout that's exceptionally

hard when it gets to the hardest part

that's when I tell myself all of this

was easy this is where I'm actually

growing so I challenge you right now to

assign yourself a goal right now. If you

get one thing out of this podcast,

decide one thing that you want to strive

for. Define it. Define it. Don't do

these pie in the sky things. Goals that

are achievable have to be quantifiable.

Be it a number, be it something

achievable. Decide what it is and make

tomorrow the first day you go after it.

And create all of the things that will

help you succeed, not fail. Most of us

when we start a goal, the joke is you

start January 1st. everyone's starting

their fitness journey. By February, no

one's in the gym anymore. Why is that?

Why does everyone give up? Because the

hard work is at the beginning. Those

first few weeks of setting a habit in

place. I have a lot of things in here

that are all about how you form habits.

I literally put in the book proven

habits for success. It's not tricks. For

example, atomic habits had a huge impact

on me. Some of these books that show you

where's that inflection point from you

trying to do something to you ingraining

it in your muscle memory. And now it

becomes self-fulfilling. You keep doing

it because you like doing it. I didn't

love running when I started. Now running

is my vacation. I enjoy running. It

gives me a flow state. I make up new

ideas. I get to kind of check in with

myself. I think physical activity is so

important. So many of the chronic

diseases and things we have are

lifestyle choices and inactivity. We

could solve so many huge problems we

have simply by eat healthier and start

working out a little more. And nobody

wants to hear that. But you do a little

bit of hard work. you continue and you

maintain. So yeah, I I'm I'm hoping

that's useful. But that that's what I'd

want people to do. If you take action

tomorrow and start making your goals

happen, get inside your own head. That's

what I want you to do right now. But do

you remember when I had you close your

eyes and I had you see hundreds of

different people? I had you envision

people that you've met, famous people,

people that you like, people you care

about, all those different people, and

one person tapped you on the shoulder,

gave you a piece of advice. Mhm.

>> Do you remember that?

>> Yeah.

>> And that piece of advice set in motion

you thinking of jewels.

>> Yeah.

>> Who was the person who tapped you on the

shoulder, you turned around, you looked

them in the eye, and they said something

to you that changed your life, created a

memorable moment, and put in place that

domino effect. Tell me, who did you

think of?

>> Michelle Obama.

>> Open up that piece of paper.

>> Funny.

It's a photo of Michelle Obama.

She looks gorgeous there.

[Music]

>> Okay, we have a closing tradition on

this podcast where the last guest leaves

a question for the next guest without

knowing who they're leaving it for. And

the question that's been left for you

is,

>> "Oh, fantastic.

>> If you could live forever, would you?

And why or why not?"

I think I would. I think I would. Uh, an

obsession of mine growing up has been

science fiction. My favorite books to

read, the ones that just capture my

imagination. And there are so many books

I've read about immortality.

And uh there's a book that this brings

to mind uh by Octavia E. Butler, which

is underrated. It's called Wild Seed,

and not a lot of people have read it.

It's a sci-fi book, and it's it delves

into this exact subject. And just what

would it be like to see all the people

around you pass away and the sadness and

then what would you do? Because at some

point, you'd feel empty. People just

die, right? It's kind of like think of

it as the life of an insect. Just they

disappear. They come, they go, they

come, they go. And I think that

eventually you would revert back to

being completely numb and cold. But at

the same time, death is just that abyss

that everyone, no matter how much we

avoid thinking about it, talking about

it, you're going to die. I'm going to

die. In one day, you'll have that final

breath. Will you know it's going to

happen? Will you not? What will you

think about in those moments? What will

you go into it with? Will you still have

that fear of death? I I think our whole

lives are an extension of trying to

avoid thinking about our eventual death.

I think I would love to live forever,

but I bet you once I live forever, it

would start to be a curse.

I can't wait to think of the question

I'm going to ask the next person.

>> Thank you so much. Thank you for writing

a book that inspires people to live

their better life. And I think all the

principles in here are all human

principles that focus on how we can

relate better to other people. And so

many people are struggling to connect

with other people for so many reasons.

And that's causing so much downstream

mental health issues and physiological

issues and disconnection in the world.

And we're seeing that increasingly if

you go on the internet you see a lot of

disconnection because we're struggling

to relate to people. And I think it's

you know the most I think for me the

most important byproduct of the work

that you do is you make people

curious and open-minded and there's so

much that comes from that people just

being a bit more curious and that's you

know the all people get the magic of it.

I think it makes people's minds

expansive. And if people have expansive

minds, then that might just be the

catalyst to all types of progress.

>> I love it.

>> Do you know what I'm saying? Like that

>> I think being open-minded and having a

different feeling than the usual, which

is in our day-to-day, we get into this

autopilot where yes, we feel pings of

joy, pings of anxiety, pings of

depression, pings of happiness.

>> My I told you the thing I got addicted

to was giving people this different

feeling. Yeah.

>> Which is a feeling you lose out.

Children, you see it in their eyes.

Again, it's it's a little hokey to say,

but when I see my three-year-old or my

2-year-old discover something new and

you see it through their eyes, it's a

gift. It's something you get back

because once you're an adult, you can't

have that same thing because you've

become jaded to the world. And suddenly

for them to see a a butterfly fly and

it's like this joyful experience and

seeing it through a kid's eyes, it's

honestly it it's been the greatest joy

of my life is seeing joy of my kids.

It's seeing that cuz it's in our DNA.

That's my version of immortality.

>> And humans lose that. We get more

>> humans lose that more and more. And it's

sad to me because I have lost it knowing

how I do the things I do. So to ask me

the good question is if I get fooled by

another magician or mentalist, how does

it make me feel? Amazing. It's the best

feeling. And I try immediately to hold

back the part of me that wants to know

how it was done. Because right away

there's a professional curiosity. The

same way that a movie star or a director

can't watch a movie and just think of

it. They're watching here's how you did

the camera, here's this panning shot,

here's the ISO, right? They can't

disconnect from the how the sausage is

made. Yeah.

>> I because those moments are so few and

far between. I instantly in my mind stop

I stop myself from the how and I enjoy

that wonder because it's so few for me

that I can't because I know how

everything's done. So when I get it, I

love it.

>> It's like um the day you figured out

Santa Claus wasn't real. It's like

bursting an illusion. And when I figured

out Santa Claus wasn't real, my world

got small. like the possibilities of the

world got smaller because there when

magic existed anything was possible and

that's a great place to live but when I

found out Santa Claus wasn't real I was

like oh

>> you know

>> yes

>> it's like gh there's no magic in this

world

>> right

>> and that's not a nice way to believe and

you're you're you know the work that

you're doing and the performances that

you do the entertainment you bring keeps

people's minds open and lets them

imagine be creative and believe that

there's still magic in this world and

that's a wonderful thing I highly

recommend people go get your book I'm

going to link it below and put it on

screen for anyone that wants to grab

habit. It's called Read Your Mind:

Proven Habits for Success from the

World's Greatest Mentalist. And the

people on the back are some of which are

my friends. I've got an investor of mine

on here. Um many of my former podcast

guests on here as well, like Jay Shetty

and Mark Cuban and Adam Grant. And um on

the front, David Gogggins.

Thank you.

>> Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for putting this out in the

world. and I enjoy this. Even though

your recent one on AI scared the crap

out of me, but I'm honored to have been

a guest and I can't wait to write a

question for the next person and live

on.

>> Make sure you keep what I'm about to say

to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you

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CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is

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You can tell us what you want this show

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I will speak to you there.

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Hey,

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