PEAK MIND: Find Your FOCUS and Change Your LIFE | Dr. Amishi Jha Interview

the term focus is a very common thing the cool thing about this flashlight though is it's not only about the external environment but it's about the internal environment as well so if i say um think about what you had

for dinner last night can you do that i can you can do that right so what happened in that moment before i said that probably it was not on your mind oh so good right so you you had it come to mind in your

memory and then basically you were shining the flashlight on the memory and all of a sudden it's in your conscious experience so think about the power of this focusing capacity i mean i do

refer to it as a type of fuel because we need it to have a train of thought we need it to experience emotion and regulate emotion and we certainly need

it to connect with other people [Music] welcome back to the show everybody i'm so excited to have this lady here with

me i'm fascinated by her work and because the applications in so many different areas of my own life and i believe for the audience today she's got a new book out called peak mind

she's a neuroscientist professor of psychology at university of miami and i already like her amishi ja welcome to the program thank you so much it's great to be here so good so i have so

many things i want to ask you and i'm going to cram it into one hour so first things first there's this fallacy evidently that we use only a percentage of our brain

there's you know you're ten percent of your brain 32 percent of your brain people love to throw these statistics around but as i'm prepping and learning about your work you say not true at all oh not true at all okay tell me no way i

mean the brain takes up so much of our metabolic energy nothing is wasted and the real the way to think about the brain is

is as a unit usually we think about bits and pieces and communication between those bits and pieces but it's really the configuration of the whole thing just like a team so you'd never say that you know if you

have all the players on the team some may be more active than others but you don't say the whole team's not playing the game same idea with the brain it's entirely used okay and some parts may be actively

suppressed and other parts may be actually really activated do highly performing people have some functionality in their brain or a presence about them that people

that don't function at that same level have or what separates them oh mind what does that mean to me a peak mind has to do with the area that i actually specialize in attention

so peak mind is a mind that has full access to its attentional resources nothing is lost or hidden and by the way does that doesn't always mean you're focused okay it means that you know

exactly in a moment-to-moment context where your attention is even if it's off-leash doing whatever the heck it wants to do okay so i so attention means i'm aware i'm no longer focused on the

task at hand the initial task and that's still being in full attention as you're saying i'm trying to understand that yeah yeah so attention is this complex multi-faceted system and it really developed over the course

of evolution because we've got a very big problem the brain had a very big problem which is that and we can see it if we just look around right now there's so much information available

to it it cannot possibly process all of it so attention provides a solution to prioritize a subset of the information and then hone in on it to get fuller

access so we actually make sense of the world by sampling different pieces of it to kind of put together the entirety okay so oh here we go this is already getting good so i went right into the content without

even positioning things because i'm so fascinated but as you can now tell everybody we're going to talk today about mindfulness an awful lot and we're going to talk today about getting better at getting your attention focused i use

the word focus use a different word but so i'm watching one of your ted talks by the way i want to encourage everybody to go watch them there this one the one i watched is awesome at one point in the

talk you say well i basically got eight minutes left you will listen to about 50 percent of what i'm about to say and i thought to myself well the application of missing 50 percent of

something maybe in listening to a talk okay whatever but what's that mean for an athlete who's in a five-round ufc fight what's it mean for a surgeon

who's going to operate on someone's body what's it operate for a soldier or a law enforcement person to lose attention for that percentage of time so that's actually accurate that the average person has their attention is

there 50 percent of the time yeah i mean that's study after study after study okay and what i mean by that is some of these studies are really interesting the way that they're done and they're done in a very rudimentary way we've gotten more and more

sophisticated but the initial studies all that happened was you said okay you know ed will you sign up for my study yes i'm going to text you any time of day during waking hours i'm going to ask you a couple of questions and the questions

would be something like what are you doing right now and you get a little list of options like reading a book talking to a person whatever those options are you click and then the second question is where is your attention right now is it

on the task you're doing or somewhere else and that kind of experience sampling suggested 50 percent gosh but then we brought it into the lab and we had people do tasks that are intentionally

demanding and even then even though they know they're there to do a task fifty percent you pay people to say don't get distracted still very high percentages don't get

distracted it's just the nature of the mind and i think knowing that can be very empowering in some sense is there such a thing as multitasking or is that a fallacy in other words can the brain do more than one thing at one time

great question i'm so glad he asked that so if more than one thing is intentionally demanding you cannot do more more than one thing at one time the term multitasking is actually a myth okay the

correct term would be task switching task switching yes so what you're doing and this is actually frankly one of the most exhausting things you can do to your brain is engage your attention and then have to disengage it move it to the next

thing come back and move it over and over again really yeah okay and when we ask when we tell people this you know it's people always get like yeah it takes me a while to get back into the thing i was doing

so don't do that to yourselves my main like guidance for people okay don't have your alerts on when you're trying to actually do deep work and focus because you're disadvantaging your ability to actually do the task that you're trying to do i mean if already

the baseline is 50 and now you've got to deal with things pulling you away the chances of it actually being successful are even reduced more so what's the solution then in other words you you talk a great deal

about mindfulness why don't we position that i'm pretty familiar i would say that i've practiced mindfulness for a while but not on the level and to the extent nor with some of the exercises that you recommend so

is the solution in your is a generic answer mindfulness for you and then why don't you elaborate on what that actually means sure i mean i think that first i'll just tell you my personal bias right so coming into this

i mean you can see me i'm an indian woman the term meditation or mindfulness meditation i mean these were not things that i was unfamiliar with growing up sure but i kind of didn't want anything to do with it i was a true skeptic in

fact i thought it was not a serious enterprise and had other reasons for not wanting to go in the direction of practicing meditation at all because of some sexist aspects of the

culture etc i was like no no not for me so my my topic my expertise is in the brain science of attention that's what i studied and it was just a total

life circumstances that even opened me up to the possibility of mindfulness entering my lab's work so i just want to frame that that it's interesting you know it's very hard for people to know especially when i walk on into military bases they usually think i'm the

mindfulness lady then the neuroscientist is the other person that's with me i'm like no flip that well what's interesting not to interrupt you but that's what i thought originally so when the opportunity to speak with you was presented to me i went okay i've had

some meditation people know before i'm actually more interested in the science part of it right then i look into you and i'm like oh hold on a second here right this is a person who comes from the scientific perspective she's a neuroscientist now we're talking about

mindfulness so you know it's not something and it was probably two or three years into me having my own lab that it entered my lab's landscape and it really came because i was at a crossroads in my

personal life i was you know a young child at that point i was a professor at the university of pennsylvania and everything was sort of on paper and to the external world

exactly as i'd wanted it right i got this dream job i have a beautiful uh family and we just bought a 100 year old fixer-upper in west philly and we're renovating it and like everything was

great and like the way that i had planned for it to be but i had a real wake-up call there were two things that happened that really were like uh something's up first i lost feeling in my teeth from

grinding that was odd and then one night i was reading to my son and um had no idea what i was reading in the book like he asked me he was like maybe

not even three years old he's put his little hand on the book and like looks up like what do we you know what does this word mean and i'm like i have no idea what i'm reading and it was this kind of deep feeling of

my goodness i am not here at all i am not paying attention to my life and if this is happening now and is this tiny like how is it going to flow as he gets older and things as you know as

you've got teenagers things get more complicated yeah so anyway just to say that i became like i was on a hunt i study attention i'm an expert in this okay let me just

read something about how to fix this thing like i'm distracted how do i fix it nothing in my field would guide me to what to do and so we tried a lot of different things even in the lab because it sort

of paralleled what the lab was studying at that time of we knew attention can be vulnerable to things like stress and threat etc but we didn't have any solutions there yeah so anyway so it ended up just

to give you a sense of why mindfulness entered the lab yeah i um was at a seminar actually this was about early 2000s so mindfulness was not a

term like i would have never thought at that point 2021 i'd be talking to somebody that would say oh yeah i practice mindfulness like definitely not something i thought would happen but this colleague of mine a very eminent

neuroscientist who who studies something called affective neuroscience the neuroscience of emotion and he presented he was like at the front of this large lecture hall and he presented like two brain images on the screen

a very positive looking brain meaning he had induced people while they're in the scanner to feel in a positive mood and then a negative brain and i'm like at the end of the lecture i

raised my hand i was like okay how do you get that brain to look like that braid you know like kind of just and he was very flippant about it just like meditation and i was like i don't think so

yeah no no i don't think so ended up i talked to him later and he was in a serious uh initial stages of studies that now we've all probably heard of with adept monastics monks

and so it was very intriguing to me and i was kind of like oh but i don't want anything to do with this this is not serious and i had my own personal baggage and i ended up walking into the penn bookstore and pulled a book off

called meditation for beginners and i just said let me just check it out it ended up that that book was by one somebody was quite dear to me now as a teacher jack cornfield and jack

the book i know the book yeah and jack has a little it's a little tiny book that has a guided cd i'm like okay look i'm skeptic i'm a skeptic but i'm just going to try it i'm just going to try it it's like 10 15 20 minute

so i committed to it and what i realized as it was happening as i was going through this day after day and probably about a month or so in i'm like oh this thing is entirely the instructions are

plainly about attention and this thing is transforming the way that i pay attention i felt more embodied i felt more aware i could notice the little grimaces on my

son's face or maybe a concerned look in my spouse's eyes like just everything became crystal clear and more alive to me and none of the stresses had changed i mean the pressures of my life were the

same but i was more i felt more capable really more at my peak how quickly about four to six weeks that's what it was for me too which are really amazing you're saying this is that um i had a

somewhat similar experience where i you know sort of the financial well-being of my life that turned around i'm living on the ocean you know i've got all these things in my life that i wanted and i just struggled with finding some

peace i struggled with being present clarity of thought and actually what i felt like too for me was like i had stopped growing emotionally psychologically and mentally like i

would i was still producing more external results but there was just a part of me that wasn't expanding and maybe i was even regressing i grabbed the exact same book really yeah that's that's what's ironic about it when you said that i want to make sure it's the

same author before i jumped there oh my goodness no that's amazing i grabbed the exact same book but as we're talking i realize even recently maybe i've not stayed as dedicated to some of those practices as i could so being with you

is sort of inspiring me to do it a lot of times you know just i'm anticipating people may be like okay i've heard of mindfulness i'll even do it but i want to deepen the understanding and maybe even it might even actually motivate you

to kind of try a little bit more regularly of what attention is and why it ended up being such an interesting solution for us to bring it into the lab because after this happened to kind of get back to the um

to where i was in my journey after this happened i was like okay this is pretty interesting but i'm one person this is an anecdotal self-study so if this is for real then let's put it

to the test in the most rigorous way possible and hey i happen to have all the tools of setting attention i can actually bring this to the lab and we can do this seriously so that summer like a few months after i started this whole

journey i wrote my first grant to investigate this and put really literally like if there's any this is if this has any chance of actually being real it will

have to really be there or in order for us to see it or else it'll just not show up you know with this kind of randomized controlled trials and having ensuring that we're very clear about the protocols etc so

anyway so um i just wanted to mention that this is this entered the lab because i was curious but i was very open to the fact that it could be anecdotal it could be just you it could be just me so maybe the thing to do

before i because i would love to share a practice with you and you'll find it very familiar since you've been practicing mindfulness but the reason that i was willing to write the grant and i think the reason i've been able to get grant after grant is because it

truly taps into an asp these aspects of attention that the brain science says says exist but currently at least at the moment that i started this work there

was really no insight into how to train each of these brain systems so it's like we know they exist we know they're vulnerable the piece that i wanted to actually explore is is it trainable yes so because that's when as you know i

mean that's where the expansion the growth can happen right so anyway so let's just i mean i love the question that you asked me regarding attention and you said the term

focus yeah but that actually is just one part of the attention landscapes this is important to know before an exercise so we know what we're actually working on so yeah exactly that's what i was thinking i think that it helped it helped me understand why it would be

worth doing this what seemingly is a very weird thing to do with sit quietly and pay attention to your breath which yeah we'll break it down but still that's essentially what it's going to come to um okay so

just one of the things i like to do because it helps me explain and understand even how how these systems work and we already talked broadly that attention is solving a problem for the

brain it doesn't exist for no reason it exists to emphasize certain aspects of our experience and the metaphor i like to use that really is tied to the term you said focus

is of a flashlight right so that's the metaphor so you if you're in a darkened path you know you have this beautiful ocean view here you want to go for a little walk in the evening you might take a flashlight with you

why because wherever it is that that flashlight is pointing you're going to get privileged access yeah okay so same thing with attention when we attend to something like right

now if i'm looking at your face i'm getting granular information regarding your face and everything else is sort of becoming a fuzzy in the same way that wherever we point that flashlight everything else is

darkened around it same idea and that's a very active process that the brain is doing the brain is enhancing the neural activity of the part of space i'm focusing on and

actively suppressing everything else that's good so that part is is i think most people can understand the term focus is a very common thing the cool thing about this flashlight though is it's not only about the external

environment but it's about the internal environment as well so if i say think about what you had for dinner last night can you do that they can you can do that right so what happened in that moment

before i said that probably it was not on your mind oh so good right so you you had it come to mind in your memory and then basically you were shining the flashlight on the memory

and all of a sudden it's in your conscious experience so think about the power of this focusing capacity i mean i i do refer to it as a type of fuel because

we need it to have a train of thought we need it to experience emotion and regulate emotion and we certainly need it to connect with other people but still that's only part of the puzzle

but i hope that that that at least the flashlight thing makes sense i'll never forget that well i'll never forget that as long as i continue to practice mindfulness if i don't potentially i will forget that

okay so i won't forget that what an unbelievable analogy because you made me pull a visual a file up almost in my brain that was suppressed it was the one that went to the background yeah and once we shine

the light on it this is so good okay so now that we're at this space i'm obviously you now have proven scientifically that this is trainable expandable almost like a muscle on a

bicep that if it's trained regularly it can become stronger and grow yeah so if i'm in the i know when most of my audience knows if i want to go at a gym and i want to build my bicep they kind

of have a general idea here's uh an array of exercises you can do to build that what is one of them that we can do to build this you're going to be mad because i'm going to say wait hold on

but there's more i feel like i'm trying to send you ginsu knives or something but because it's really like the body and you know that if you only work certain muscle groups there's others that will atrophy and there is a

cross-training aspect to this so i want to make sure we cover the other aspects well that's part of the training of attention right so the focusing is one piece of the puzzle but attention is this multifaceted component and there's

two other systems that i think are really worth mentioning the other system is something i call the floodlight and it really is formally called the alerting system of the brain it's almost you could say the exact opposite of the

flashlight whereas the flashlight is narrow and selective the floodlight is broad and receptive there is nothing you should be privileging the only thing you're privileging is what is happening right

now so you're privileging time like right now in this moment what is the most important thing and you know we use this system all the time you're driving down the road you see a flashing yellow light near a construction zone or

a weird traffic pattern you you know what that feeling is of like broad and receptive i don't know what weirdness is going to happen but i'm here for it because i might need to take action like that and then i'll be able to direct the

flashlight where it's needed but i have to have that preparatory kind of broad receptivity okay so flashlight floodlight flashlight floodlight right both really important then the third system

is actually and this will sound familiar too once i start talking about it it's actually something called executive control okay and it's we use that term executive because it really is like the executive

of a company the job of this executive system is as a manager to ensure that the goals we have and the behavior we engage in a line

so the analogy i use there is is a juggler so essentially all the balls need to be in the air as a leader in an organization you know that you're not going to go in and do every task but you need to make sure there's a rhythmicity

there's an appropriateness to all the things that are being done and this juggler basically guides the action of these other systems of the flashlight and the flood light so now i think with those three in mind we can talk about the cross-training aspect

of of one of the practices very very good yeah i appreciate that background because i'm thinking about the for me when i listen to things and i know people think differently i'm constantly thinking of the application yeah so when i hear the

science or the exercise i know you that's why that's why your work so wonderful i'm thinking of the application right i'm thinking of people like for example when you talk about the floodlight i'm thinking of people who overuse their flashlight and those

sometimes are people who are good at certain tasks or certain behaviors but they have an inability to see the room you got it they have an inability to see the context of things sometimes and so

this floodlight aspect i'm thinking what part of those are am i pretty good at i don't know so much about the juggler part i think it's probably the part maybe that i struggle with but i am pretty good i think of coming in and being able that floodlight and seeing

the bigger perspective and then narrowing my focus down to what matters and so the application as you're listening to this is really really fascinating stuff because you could be you could be unbelievable at focusing in

in certain aspects of what you do in your life but you're missing the bigger story the bigger context the bigger vision then there's other people i think you can see the big thing but maybe they they're weaker at being able to narrow

their focus for the period of time they need to to engage with somebody or to be present with them or to persuade them or to knock a putt in the hole or whatever that it might be so that is fascinating

i think that's a really great like connecting the dots but the other thing to keep in mind is we need all three systems and they need to be functioning together fluidly yeah they don't

function at the same time right in fact technically in the brain they're they battle each other for prominence so you can't be in both a flood light in a flashlight mode and we know this right so you're immersed in reading something

or listening to something somebody walks in the room and says your name you're like it takes you a second because the floodlight is essentially being dampened down the receptivity to the environment is dampened down

so i think that the the can i give you an example of that just in sports because i think the transition between those i'll call them states the transition between those states is something that i think people that

perform at a higher level have an ability to transition better so i'll give you an example an nfl quarterback walks up to the line of scrimmage what they're doing is they're in the floodlight state at that point because the flood light says i've got to read

the field i've got to read the defense right this is almost like walking into a board meeting but in a quarterback sense when i'm working with them they're walking in they're surveying the entire field what's the defense where's the linebacker is this person blitzing

they're looking at the floodlight it's their ability to then deduce and make assessments about the floodlight state they're in and then as the ball snapped move into the flashlight and hone in on

the open wide receiver that's the application for a quarterback right and so and then it's the the juggling part is pretty obvious of what they have to do during that play so you should be listening to this you're watching this

thing about the application in your life as a father as a mother as a business person as an athlete so i just want to make sure that we're sort of going to application just giving one example as we do such a great i mean it's so cool

the resonance between even the terminology we used when we trained the university of miami football team scan the field eye on the ball and you know these are very similar terms to what we were saying and the

reason that they should be practicing these these particular practices so absolutely these are things that are relevant i love what you said regarding assess the situation and i want to just

say one more thing regarding that that happens often when we assess right when when i say observe or be receptive to what's happening there's an aspect of that that

has to be oh free of a particular perspective of what you think you're seeing so if you come in and you think oh i know what this team is going to do then you're going to read that field

very what you know the playing field very differently than if you're like i don't really know what they're going to do i got to really be able to get all the data of what's going on because i'm not sure i'll probably figure it out as

stuff starts happening of what the other team is attempting to do but that is a very important aspect because we default into that sort of story making or conceptual elaboration can i ask you about that because now you're

really going down the road i love and i'm fascinated by we have these predisposed belief systems like you just described we believe when we walk in a room there's a certain environment a certain

treatment a certain scenario a certain or our inability to see something also right does our brain somehow then help reveal to us what it is that we believe most

clearly in that environment with that flood light or that flashlight the reality i think we have to consider is that in many circumstances in many high stress high stakes consequences

we have no idea what the conceptual overlay should be and it can be quite problematic to assume you do okay and can i give you an example i want it yes yes so this is an example

actually from a colleague a actually a dear now friend who happened to be a then he was a colonel he's now a three-star general and he gave me this example this is again in the initial stages of talking about mindfulness and

why it matters uh he got it immediately of why and i'll connect the dots back to the the practice that you asked about so he's describing this scenario in afghanistan

actually probably now 20 years ago well let's see no not 20 years ago maybe 15 years ago right at the beginning of the of the whole episode there and

they got intelligence that on this mountaintop is a taliban encampment and their job was to deal with them basically there were planes flying above and he was told you

give us the word and we're gonna drop a bomb get rid of these bad guys right so so he wanted to as the leader and uh ensure that this is you know this is of right the right thing to do that was

totally the story all the intelligence had told them that so they're going up the mountain to actually confront this group of people that they heard were there and ahead of him wore a couple of scouts so he's like behind they're going up

front and and the scout says you know yeah look we had we have seen men we see young men in this age range they're standing outside the quarters of where they're staying and all all looks good you know yes it's

exactly what we think it is and then and then so the the leader was about to say yeah drop go ahead and drop then the next sentence comes in that changed everything

the soldier said i see no weapons and that was like a that's not that's not typical and then every and then again and he said i see no weapons i'm just going to

go tackle the guy like yeah and so he runs in tackles the guy and then a few seconds later these angry women come out of the come out of the tents like what are you doing to our family members oh my gosh it was not a

taliban encampment it was a bedouin tribe that had been coming there for hundreds of years thank god thank god and so the the insight for this military leader

was ah he had intrinsic mindfulness he was able to drop the story and see what it is he saw what wasn't there which most of us don't do yes

so this is what i think in addition to these attentional aspects this is what we can get into with mindfulness because mindfulness is about paying attention to our present moment experience right

without conceptual elaboration without a story or editorializing it and without having emotional reactivity to it okay so we're going right there but i want to go back you said true and false to what i said yeah and i like knowing where i'm

false that way i'm not false anymore what was incorrect about what i asked you it was not that there was anything incorrect if you go into a situation thinking you have a story that's going to guide you absolutely 100 you are

correct that attention will be biased in favor of the story yes but that can be not beneficial always the only part of what i was saying was that it can have consequences you were

painting a beneficial picture but that's not it because i actually teach it in the uh in the latter meaning i actually think most of the time it's true take it back what i wanted to make sure is that this

idea of what we do uh believe strongly guides our attention in an environment and that's the part that i don't believe but just to be clear i think most people aren't wired for it to be to their benefit i actually think that most

people are wired so that's what you meant by false it can be a negative it could be negative maybe not true or false it's positive negative right and the negative i completely agree with is that if i walk into an environment i always fail i always find a way to make

a mistake i you will gravitate towards the environment the circumstance the person that whatever it is your flashlight begins to focus towards that if that's your story going in

correct 100 so let me just like maybe i wanna i wanna emphasize how right that is okay that is the power of story and narrative and that's why we have to be very aware

of the narrative that we're telling ourselves because it is guiding perception it's guiding decision making and it's guiding action and so you totally got it right that

biasing component this is this is sort of i just love you because this is sort of the basis of what i teach is that this story guides perception now you can prove it with the neuroscience more than i can

but so i'm so glad to hear that it wasn't true or false that it's actually positive negative because to be really candid with you i believe that you can learn all the skills of being an entrepreneur or a mother or an athlete

or a father but if you don't begin to take control of the story of of your life of what you believe about yourself what you believe about what's possible you believe about an environment that you really have lost control over

your ability to produce the results that you want and so i'm so glad you are you're like we are extremely in sync in fact i have a whole a whole chapter called drop the story oh gosh because it's not just that

we should be aware of the story we have to also have the capacity to drop it and that is a that's an extra level of a skill because sometimes having no story allows us so

so we only back up yeah so great this is so great being able to understand that you have a story will at least distance you enough so you can reframe the situation yeah

being able to drop the story allows you to d frame and when you d frame you can build up in a different way and that i think is at the next level of what we're talking about it's like truly

take in the data without as much without any kind of conceptual overlay that is not typical we don't do that that's really interesting see i've always thought you better replace that story yeah you're saying that's not uh it's

not imperative to do that but you actually just drop the current story and allow sort of the information to dictate what the story becomes give that part more because oftentimes

we'll reframe and then we're in another story but really savor extend the period of time where you are data gathering and i hear this from you know one of the

people i talk about in the book is is a lawyer and he talks about this all the time i have to be able to get the raw data of the experience or judges same thing or in any business context if

you're not quite sure what's happening allow the deframing to occur that will give you better insight into the reframing that then occurs you think someone gosh this is i'm loving this i actually we were joking earlier that we

wouldn't go three or four hours we may go a little bit longer because i'm absolutely loving this i think also that if you've had some success too that if it doesn't come with a dose of

humility that when you begin to walk into every room in every environment i think you've already figured it out you already know this stunts growth as well because you're what you're saying is it blunts you taking in new data and new

information correct correct you get it you totally get it you are denying yourself better data more data to inform the decisions that happen so don't do that don't do that to yourself right right give us the exercise we've been building

enough give us yeah okay so this is like this there's i'm going to give you a longer one just to describe the steps and then we'll do like one that you can do anytime all the time okay so this is like a basic mindfulness practice and i call it again tied to what we're talking

about in the in the book and attention the find your find your flashlight practice great because oftentimes it's not that we don't um we can't focus it's that we don't know where we're focusing at any moment

that's true so the instruction would be and i guide people to kind of ramp up to about 12 minutes a day that our data suggests it's beneficial to do this but to start out like do 30 seconds of this commit to that for a few weeks and see

how that goes so the practice is essentially find a quiet comfortable spot and take this time seriously even if it's 30 seconds or a minute sit in an upright alert posture like a

dignified you know if we do it now it's just like upright alert dignified and first step is just acknowledge notice shine the flood light on your experience that you're breathing

right now then what you're going to do is hone in on something that actually you notice is prominent in your experience of breathing so do you notice anything that feels

prominent like the coolness of air maybe by your nose or maybe your chest it's actually the sound i'm making okay great yeah the the sound that's a great one too that's where you're going to hold the point the flashlight that's your

intentional target for this short practice so direct that flashlight right there keep it steady you can close your eyes if you want to whatever you choose just to limit this

sensory input and if it hasn't happened yet it surely will your mind will wander and all you do in that moment

is notice it ah the mind is wandered away next step take that flashlight redirect it back to that same attentional target

and repeat so it's essentially focus point that flashlight notice use the floodlight redirect get the juggler to do its job

oh my goodness you don't want can i ask about that when i first started this um there was like a judgment when i drift away oh no it's a total win but it's a winner

it's actually a win because it gives us a chance to redirect the flashlight right this is so important because i used to i don't know maybe you maybe you're further along than me but in the beginning i was like gosh man i'm gone

this for like 24 seconds then i'm out but you're actually saying that's actually a gift when we drift away because it allows us to build this flashlight i'll call it a muscle so to speak yeah we're coming back

now i hope it makes sense why i wanted to describe those three systems because we hit all three in this it does and i think it's really important to not think of the wandering as a problem the

wandering remember we start out talking about 50 of the time it's the nature of the mind i didn't say ed if you happen to be one of those weird people whose mind wanders like us normal people don't have that you have mind wandering i

didn't say that i said when your mind wanders because it's going to wander for sure just bring it back and not doing that with the added story the added reactivity is so important you know i'm just thinking of the

i do i did a lot of work when i was younger and i do now with kids and i have so many parents almost judge their children for their he can't stay focused in the classroom he drifts away and i'm just thinking right now like what a

breakthrough this might be for some parents who are listening to realize that that's actually everyone is at 50 maybe your kid reveals it more than other kids do doesn't conceal it as well

right maybe it manifests in talking out loud as opposed to scribbling on a sheet of paper so it's more apparent but this is something that even with do you believe is there a particular age where you believe a child might be able to

begin to build this i'm calling it building a muscle because everybody can relate to that yeah no i think it is it's practice it's strengthening so the first thing to say is that this brain system of attention

is one of the slowest to develop we don't fully develop this capacity till we're about 25.

and one of the reasons is it relies on the frontal lobes which are the slowest brain cis a brain region to develop so you know it does kind of drive me nuts sometimes and i feel for parents when they're but when they're

not happy that their children aren't paying attention or their responses pay attention it's not going to help at all and in fact understanding that that's the thing that is is it's your child is not not paying

attention because they don't know that they should often it's that they don't know where their attention is just like we are saying we don't know that's good

so i think that the thing to really and by the way yes absolutely there's a huge enterprise of offering mindfulness training in a developmentally appropriate manner to children as long as young as preschool

really we can do these in very useful ways for children but what you're having them cultivate is not just focus focus focus it's where are you right now you know where are you in a friendly self-supportive way and is that where

you want to be right now you know when you talk to yourself in that manner of like where am i right now is that where i want to be all of a sudden the world doesn't feel as dire like oh i'm over here i think i

want to be over there instead i think that's what i should be doing right now is being over there it's a different relationship and if you the younger that we can get people to start understanding that this is befriending your mind in a way that

allows it to be used to your benefit that's fascinating to me punitive to yourself yeah that i'm just thinking i'm sitting here as a 50 year old man i've done different forms of meditation

mindfulness i'm relatively productive human being and i'm confessing to the audience that oftentimes i'm going 24 seconds and i'm out of my attention where well my attention has changed

rather so the idea that we're concerned about our eight-year-old who might have the exact same or does have the exact same scenario that i do i'm just curious has been any data are kids even more

than 50 where their attention moves or would you assume that because those frontal lobes aren't as developed or is it pretty much okay so here's the tricky part of having assessing that with children by the way what does it take for you to even know

if somebody's on task or off task right they have to have the awareness in something it's something called meta awareness awareness or attention to your attention that is also a developmentally

slow process so we're getting a fuzzy read on them i mean we could take them into the lab and look directly at their performance on tasks and yeah they might wander a lot their attention can be off often uh you

know off task often but i don't think that's uh the thing we want to help cultivate which is the counter-intuitive thing and i mean i refer to it in the book like a peak mind pivot it's like we think that we have if

to focus better we think we need to focus on we need to train ourselves to focus and i'm saying no to focus better train your mind to notice when you're not focused gosh very good so you know

that's a totally different set of you're you're exercising the flood light and the the juggler the flashlight will do its thing it knows how to do its thing but really pay attention to the

understanding of where your mind is moment by moment i did that during your ted talk you actually say something similar during your ted talk and then i thought well where am i now yeah and then i'm back with you and then where am

i now and then i came back with you and that's it you know 24 seconds if you're truly going 24 seconds you are we got to bring you to the lab because that's really good i made the number up it's probably more like 2.4 seconds i don't know

but i you know i actually asked a colleague of mine who'd been practicing mindfulness for 30 years because i was getting in the initial stages when i was just trying to understand what this thing is i was like um i'm not going very long before my mind wanders and

will that be the thing that will extend as i practice more that was my thinking like that's a reasonable hypothesis i might if it's you know five seconds now maybe it'll be 10 and 15 and each year i might get longer before it wandering and

i was very humbled by what he said he said 30 years of practice he said seven seconds no kidding and but you know so at first i'm like oh great why am i being bothering like it's

still gonna be seven seconds after 30 years but what he said next really helped he said you know what has happened is that my mind now instead of

being completely lost in a fantasy or a doomsday scenario and i love that it was like almost poetic he's like it's like i'm seeing uh the ripples you know the ripples at the distance of the placid lake

and i was like oh he is really knows his mind like he can tell it slight tug he doesn't have to go full on into you know next vacation has been planned while you're trying to do five minutes of a mindfulness practice

that felt so much more like he knows his mind he knows where it is that with that level of granularity yeah and in some sense this is the part that i think is also really

interesting especially as we talk about um athletes and military service members and special operators etc it's this sense that you develop because

you know your mind a sense of i mean i use the term mental toughness it's like i know the space i know the the lake it may not always be placid it's usually for me like a rough

stormy place right but i can take anything like my mind is here for it and frankly that's developing that same floodlight capacity i am here i'm present for it

i'm not gonna be thrown off i'm steady in the middle of whatever's going on very good you know i uh i think some of the most self-confident people i know are just more self-aware and i think that's actually what you're describing there's

an awareness of there's an awareness of self i'm loving this and i want to keep going so when i i want to ask you about you've described things in visual terminology a lot and i'd like to think that i am a visual person also although

i don't know there's such a thing i'm wondering if part of that self-awareness is are some people more predisposed to be kinesthetic or auditory or visual in their in the deductions they make in the

observations that they make and is that something to be cognizant of about yourself when you're in a state of attention that you are not just i i feel like i'm very visual but maybe every

single person is or are there more auditory predisposed people kinesthetic usual i mean the the jury is out most people say now that like the notion of

learning styles or specific modalities is not all that well supported so i would say i don't we don't know yet if that's actually the case but frankly the bulk of the brain as human beings compared to our little dogs that run around

so dominant with vision but you brought up something that i want to actually i want to like kind of ping that yeah because that what you described is not what i'm talking about when i use the term meta awareness

what you just described very powerful thing to do is something we call metacognition so both of these are tied to self-awareness but meta awareness is a different thing so metacognition is essentially

knowing your tendencies knowing your styles knowing your decision-making capacities your strengths your weaknesses i mean everything you just described would be really great to know for your metacognitive style for example

and yes it can definitely there could be differences maybe not tactile or visual but there are definitely differences in the way people operate metacognitively so you may be a maximizer in your decision making versus a satisfier you

know there's these different orientations but i'm not talking about that what i'm talking about when i talk about the floodlight because remember the floodlight system is really about the now

and meta awareness is awareness of the moment-to-moment processes and contents within your mind so i don't it doesn't really matter for matt from the meta awareness point of

view what your tendencies are what is going on right now where is your mind right now and i think that that um what's important now kind of orientation is so important in performance context because it doesn't matter what you're

doing normally like what's going on now is it always important to be in the now in other words is it bad to be dreaming in the future is that a bad or good i don't even like that terminology but useful yeah yeah is it

useful that's a great question i'm so glad you asked me that because i don't want it to seem like i'm saying always be here right now yeah no no no no no that's not what i'm saying in fact

this capacity to mentally time travel to just like you did with your what did you have for dinner last night right is so useful for us in fact it may be the thing that defines us in our

evolutionary advantage as human beings right we can displace our ourselves in something called time travel right we can rewind the mind we can fast forward the one mind you you've heard about me talking about that a little bit in the

ted talk but it's not just about time traveling it's also about mind traveling okay mind traveling is essentially putting yourself in the shoes and mind of

somebody else so both of those are really really powerful things to do when we talk about mindfulness it's really it's it's a solution to a vulnerability in our capacity to do both of those

things so the problem with time travel though it's extremely useful for productively reflecting or planning it becomes problematic under certain

states and i do think of the athletes like my heart goes go go out to them oftentimes when i see mess-ups right like you did something you totally messed up and it happens you glitched

if you can't stop rewinding the mind you are no way going to be able to succeed in the next moment so how do you get yourself to not rewind very good right so

or amish that's really good yeah and i think that the other part is you may be you know not the uh necessarily the um athletic setting but in our like even during covet like if you if you can't

stop catastrophizing and worrying about the future you got it you're stuck you're going to be probably have a lot of anxiety so the reason we want and frankly the same thing goes with mind traveling if i'm constantly

preoccupied about your view of me social anxiety is going to set in so the reason mindfulness became such an important solution for me going back to why we study in my lab is because each

of those things ruminating about the past catastrophizing about the others overly caring about the viewpoints of an evaluation on yourself

hijack attention it depletes attention gosh it's so good you're describing from a scientific standpoint all the things that people listening to this game like i know this is true yeah and i think this the

rewinding thing man it's just huge so many people are in the rewind and just beating themselves up and repeating the same story over and over again but the other thing that i've figured out is that oftentimes stress is time travel in

the future meaning that it's not so much the uh the speech you have to give or the sale you have to close or the putt you have to hit that is stressing you out it's you projecting

into the future the negative result of it and then on top of that what other people are going to think or say about you when you miss the putt when you don't close the sale exactly is that not true exactly you describe both the mind

travel and the time travel right that's those are the those are what i would really call the kryptonite scenarios like you're really what all of that is doing is attention's still being used and you're draining it

out you're draining the fuel in spinning in those directions so how do you you know it's easy to say well don't do that get back to here and now it's easy to say it it's very hard to do because the tendencies are so

strong so you got to train for it just like anything else that's hard to do you were going to give us one other i think you're going to give us one another another training and then by the way let's get peak mind let's get the book so that we also get the whole thing

that's the whole idea but one more of them would be i'm driving to my car and i'm like i wanted to get me one well the car is a perfect example you didn't even know i was going to go there okay this other practice is just called the stop

practice okay literally s-t-o-p and do it while you're driving okay do it while you're walking do it at any time you want stop is stop like whatever the progression of your

life is in that moment halt it take a breath and that's this conscious breath aware that you're doing it observe oh

proceed p so it's just it's a mini mindfulness practice and i really think it's useful because you know where your flashlight is at the end of it i know it's right

here right now i'm back so use stop signs use red lights to remind yourself to do that over and over again so good i'm just thinking of something when you asked me to do that i actually did it with you and i actually

noticed a couple things in my visual space that have been here the entire time that i didn't see that interesting yeah um and we're going a little bit deeper probably than i should but i i

there's a lot of things that your brain does on habit mode correct like if i'm driving to work and i take the same off-ramp every single day i think my brain is storing energy by doing something that's habitual that's how i've always

understood it anyways that i'm taking that same off-ramp whether i'm right or wrong it doesn't matter okay the point that i want to make about that is that for me i think for most people being present is even though yes there's a

benefit to being in the future and rewinding there's a benefit to being reflective and reminiscing in the past and gaining wisdom from it but for most of us that's not a struggle for most people the struggle for most people is

being present and that's why this is so important what you're teaching here and for me there's so many things in a given day that mindfulness practices make me

just aware of being present that i'm curious as to in practical application how much time a day i know there's no formula but if you're just saying hey ed

i'd recommend to you it's ten minutes a day it's five different times a day it's once a day do it at the same time of the day doesn't matter when you do it what would your advice be on just building this practice

as the habit aspect yeah well i mean the last line of the the title is invest 12 minutes a day so that gives you a sense of and that number comes out of many studies that have suggested you know if

you get to that mount we tend to see benefits and the more you do from that the more you benefit but if you don't quite get to that it's almost like this is going for a walk in my neighborhood walking my dog gonna build my physical fitness probably not it's not going to

be bad for you but you're not going to get to that level so here's the answer to the question of the so the when would be and you can get a deeper understanding of why i say 12 minutes if you read more about it but just know that it comes from a lot i did i just

want them a lot of research i know i know but i'm just saying but your question regarding when to do it and the habit issue is the best time to do it is when you're

going to do it okay and that's kind of maybe a cop-out but literally the key to anything and you'd probably say the same thing regarding physical excellence right the key is advantaging your capacity to

create it and incorporate it into daily routine yeah and so what i suggest for people like i just said with when we were doing the short practice if you think you can do three minutes

set the goal of a minute and a half and get the win of i did it i did it i did it and yoke it to something that you already do you know my recommendation is is something that you know you're going to do every day without exception maybe

right after you brush your teeth in the morning or maybe right before you have your cup of coffee some time that you know you're going to do it and what i would suggest just to play around with when that works for you is to try it at different times of the

day what many people say when we say try the morning you know just play around with the time of day it's like people say things like i love the taste of my coffee so much more it's like i've actually tasted it

gosh it's so true i can't you know so and why are you depriving yourself of that right why are we rushing through i mean you're gonna have the coffee anyway why not have a little bit more pleasure with that experience so i have to just

say though i i was going to tell you off camera but i'm so glad you said this because i forgot yeah which is that i just want to give everybody the gift of this that by the way i'm nowhere near where you would be or other people i

don't think there's rankings either by the way it's not a judgment thing but my sensory experiences just in general have been so dramatically increased by

this practice and people always say to me that there's this duality maybe one of the reasons even like me is that maybe i'm sort of like a maybe a masculine dude but i'm very emotional and very sensitive i don't know that i've always been that

way but like i do find that i experience my emotions on a deeper level over the last decade or so that my laughter is a little deeper and more joyous the taste of food is a little bit

more pleasurable my my acknowledgement and noticing beauty around me and the nuances and specificities of it and not just the visual but smells and wind hitting my

face i know this sounds ridiculous to some people it's just richer because of this practice never mind being far more present and productive and i think also

for me peak is such a word that i've used over and over when i'm fully present it appears to me that i've got better access to my vocabulary better access to insights in reading

somebody do you similar experience for you i mean for sure and it can be life-saving in many ways and actually you know you describe the

the plus side and i want i think it's so it's so great it's like almost like you mean i can just have more joy by being here more yeah you can but there's another part that i think is very important in the context of our action

and our humanity we're also more present to the suffering of other people we're also more connected to other people we also have more sense and respect for the humanity of

others around us and for the environment and i think that at this particular point kind of in our human history consciousness we need to be more aware of what is the heck is

going on we have very little time to like try to make things better for our planet for example and also with all the injustices happening and you know i was talking recently to somebody regarding

this notion of burnout and you know so many people are feeling so burnt out can mindfulness help with burnout and the answer is yes mindfulness can help with burnout but you know and actually in the context of

a conference i was at with um critical care nurses now we know over covid that has been a group that has been very very crunched right and the the question was can mindfulness help me with burnout and i said yes and

they said but then um the system that the organization of the scheduling is the reason i feel burnt out and i was like yes but there's no way you're going to demand change or even conceptualize how to create

tradition if you don't have the capacity to see what's going on yes so just get you know use that as the next step to give back to those who may not have this capacity yet it's like as the more present we are the more we can enact

change and empower other people to do the same it's so you're so right and i i know you know you're right but people have told me that the last 10 years or so i'm just using practical experience for me you're more patient than you used

to be that's sort of more like the a symptom almost that it is more what you have described which is that i

um i try to be present with people and see them and hear them and experience them more than fix them like i used to and and

try to truly empathize and and understand their experience in their reality and i i've always felt since i started this like i wish more of i don't care what political party you're probably i

wish more political people had that ability for empathy and understanding and just stopped and listened to people and didn't assess it all the time and

i'm not exaggerating when i say that i attribute some if not most of that to these practices because obviously i'm a performer peak performer expert person supposedly but

it's the it's the other benefits of doing this that have enriched my life far more than the fact that i've made more money because i'm more present with people or these other things i'm

actually curious about this what about memory so is it that my memory can be improved because of this because i was actually present in more moments so i have better

recall because my attention was where i was more often or is it that there's something happening in my brain where i'm developing the ability to recall and

remember things better pretty good question huh yes yeah right so because is it because you could say well yeah your memory is better well maybe that's just because i was more present or is there actually something operating

in my brain where i'm is there a myelin forming in my brain i don't know well first of all everything this conversation is changing your brain i mean i don't just mean because it's some kind of massively

transformative thing every experience every experience we have impacts the way our brain functions so there's no like there's no divide between experience and brain changes they're just happening concurrently

right so yes it is the case so you you're such a great you're such a great intuition about neuroscience it's awesome so yes it is the case that the more we

can get the more attentive we are the more granular fine-grained the inputs are for our memory in fact attention is the gateway for memory if you don't pay

attention there's no way that you're going to have the experience of encoding episodes in your life gaining new information now there are aspects our memory that are outside the scope of something you need attention for after

it's well learned so for example um if i if i tell you tell me across the board of a keyboard what the letters are i mean i can tell you but if you give me a keyboard i can type it so there's that's an example of something we call

procedural memory which is you actually don't need your attention for that but for episodes of knowledge you need attention to input the information you also need your attention to pull it out so remember we were talking about the

flashlight and your dinner meal you had to you have to have clarity of directing it to call up the right thing so it is both on both ends of that and and frankly there's another thing to

think about which is that you call what did you call it myelin so yes it ends up that long-term memory is a structural change within the brain it actually becomes like fixed hard in terms of neural

connections that occur that process is helped by having clarity of mind and actually just kind of to really tie the loose ends of this conversation

together we current models suggest maybe that's where all this mind wandering is actually happening it may be a memory encoding process the reason the brain pumps out thoughts isn't because it's

just trying to mess with us it's because that's the way episodic memory encoding happens it's a replay button that just happens by default and as it keeps replaying things kind of harden into

long-term memory oh this is so good all right of course i wanted to get peak mined i wanted to get your book the reason that i wanted to get the book is because i think the application of what you're teaching

is different for many different people and i love things that have broad applications so i think if you're an athlete you want to read this book i think if you're someone who wants to find a little bit more bliss in your life and be more present i think this is a

book that that you should have and i think just having an overall understanding of one's self is why i think this work is so fascinating it's why my audience knows i'm i love every interview that i do i

don't talk to people that i don't want to share with the world but there are certain topics that just fascinate me because i like to understand why some of the things i teach work i understand some of it

and you're helping me so much with that now the last thing i want to ask you by the way i have like 83 more things that i want to ask you but i want to ask you about two things

to finish with one big question but one what does pressure do to our ability to pay attention does there an impact on it does it focus us

unfocus us does it depend on the person how does pressure or perceived pressure impact attention such a great question okay so yes it is

it definitely has a relationship but has a lawful relationship so pressure is not it doesn't have a unitary effect on attention so just think of a u and turn it upside down

that's essentially the shape of the curve it's something called the yerkes-dodson function and you've got let's call it stress or pressure on the

x-axis and performance on the y-axis so pressure is low performance is going to be pretty low interesting there will be a point at which the pressure will continue to grow where you're going to be at your peak

performance and if you continue to push yourself beyond that you're going to start ramping there's a regression yep so here's the interesting thing about that so there is a sweet spot the and we know what that is for us often it's like

oh yeah this like i'm going to be able to knock it out of the park in this moment i have the right set of factors the problem and a lot of people especially in the elite contacts don't

really understand that and in particular people like first responders special operators etc that there are real consequences for when you're on this part of the curve it can be life or

death for many people even if it feels like it's the right amount of pressure for peak performance at one moment in time if you maintain that same level of pressure

over weeks months it's going to degrade you there's a regression so it it will push you into the right into the degradation part of it so i think that's also really important to know often people are like

but i'm used to this kind of demand you're not used to it for weeks on end got it you know and frankly that's what a lot of the medical staff are saying they're like i could perform you know even if it was a full

ward i can kind of manage it you didn't have to do it for 19 months yeah and so that we we have to have this is actually i would love to be able to just say this

almost as a public service announcement we have as a culture a lot of attentional hubris we think we can pay attention and we cannot but if i ask you

do you think that um the guy behind you that's on his cell phone trying to drive is is paying attention to the road you'll be like no way well then why do you think you are when you're doing the same thing very good right so it's like

really remember that and have attentional humility understand that and also take care of your attention in that way like you really check in like even if i can focus at this level am i still

as focused as i was before that's the knowing it that's and that's not about by the way going back to it's not metacognition anymore it's meta awareness what am i feeling right now i get that distinction now yeah yeah do you

um by the way did i ask you a question yeah it did and i i wanted to i i love the fact that because i think some people try to avoid pressure or stress what you're basically saying is there's an extra there's an internal benefit to

a certain degree yeah over a certain duration that focuses us too much the other way it's kind of like you walk out on stage there's a certain level of butterfly or desire or awareness or anxiety that's

actually sort of healthy that you're in this peak state so to speak peak mind and then there's a state where it becomes problematic where it's too much and i had a few experiences recently where i just

went a long time under duress and stress and i found myself in a couple of them i'm filming a television show right now i just there was just a day where i was just not my i use vocabulary for some reason because i communicate so much

just my struggle to pull you know adequate and articulate vocabulary out of myself was just really sputtering yeah and it was just basically what you said i was under that stress and duress

for a duration that was longer than was beneficial to me and that's when i guess you've got to be able to be aware and intentional about it um last thing by the way i love this conversation i really do not want it to end i'm just

trying to be respectful to you and my audience at some point because they're used to a certain length show because we really have not got into so many things that i want to i'd love to have you back this would be something we would do again but just as a basic thing to start

so we've done you've gone pretty complicated we've gone in and out of different topics but someone just listening they said look i'm going to get peak mind and i would like to be more present i

would i let's just to start you've given me lots of practical things today but if i ran into you in a coffee shop and it was starbucks and we were sitting here having a cup of coffee and someone just said where should i begin

where should i begin i'm at the end of the interview now but where should i begin we're going to leave everybody now right and your final thing to them would be this is where i would start or this is what i would think about or here's a strat whatever however you would answer

that what would you what would you say that's a great thing i think the one thing i want people to take away from this conversation and any insight to then promote taking action

is pay attention to your attention and i really mean that i mean watch yourself in that way and do it by the way from a distance which is going to sound a little bit weird

like almost we call it i mean and it's called formally discentering but like as a bird's eye view get above it like get above it and look at what's going on moment by moment oh she's really feeling

a lot of anxiety right now or oh and even name yourself like you know amishi actually is feeling really nervous right now or me she feels a little bit sad part of the reason i'm saying to do that and that is a way of

paying attention to your attention because you're like oh this is what's going on moment by moment the reason to do that at a distance is because then you can't remember what i said you cannot have your attention in two places at once

but pulling yourself out distancing the flashlight a little bit you're going to get more clarity of the whole scene and then you can take action and that's just sort of like just try that out in your daily life and then i would say really

do read what i have to say in the prescription i offer because i i've wrote this book really out of wanting to take it out of the lab we found so many people had benefited and i wanted it to be a

benefit to a lot of people because frankly it's not just soldiers athletes and medical people that have stress in their lives all of us do and it's not just them that have periods of time where there's enduring challenge

we all will at some point and we may not know where it comes so when it comes so it's like train your attention like your life depends on it amishi you're awesome and i was just thinking you know the work from my audience is what you've

just said and here's the one thing everybody in this day and age when there's so much information available to you and then there's what i would call sort of new or more breakthrough information like what you're sharing

your job is not just to digest the information the work in our lives now is more not finding the information because there's brilliance in this book it's the application for you

how are you going to apply it and what areas do you apply it for me the applications of peak mind are in almost every single area of my existence when i say almost just because

i think it is every area of my existence it's about making me a better friend a better interviewer a better speaker on stage a better businessman i think a better father

and just i'm happier as a result of it and so i'm really happy you were here today and you came to my home to do this so thank you so much thank you it's a lot of fun i enjoyed it it was really good all right everybody please make

sure you get peak mind this is the fastest growing show all the data shows this on the planet that's because so many of you share it and it's getting all kinds of accolades and notoriety right now as many of you

know simply because of all of you and the way that the show is spreading to people i'm so grateful for it i do this as a service to you because i believe we can make a difference in the world and i think today's show proves

that we can do that so god bless you all max out take care hey guys thanks for sticking around if you'd like more click the videos right here they're exactly what you need to see next and if you're new here hit

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