Pro-Level Ad Strategies: Creative & Traffic Secrets Revealed! | Tier 11 Live! - EP003

I [Music] [Music] [Music] man that was some sweet intro music

don't you like that what you Jing and grooving into that I was just jamming out I was like man can we give it another minute the ter 11 live music now on Spotify right

yeah subscribe for a free soundtrack that's right that's right download free this week only that is a sound a song that you buy that comes

with a free podcast absolutely with a free live so this is this is number three here yeah like this is pretty good we're we're we're not we haven't missed

a show yet have our times a little messed up because of yours truly but uh we'll get there we'll get there we'll get there we realized that the 10: a.m. for some of

those people that are on the west coast little little hard yeah but now it's like 2:30 so you know all our European people are drunk you know that's true yeah they're in the cafes right now well

that which should make if you are from Europe actually got a fair amount of folks that are that are tuning in here which is cool uh if you are drunk and

you are in Europe and it's 5:00 way past that um definitely ask some questions yeah just ask the weirdest stuff you could think of too like let's ask the weirdest stuff yeah absolutely that's

the weirdest stuff you can possibly think of to stump John Moran this that would be it can you stump the Moran you could if you ask what my hair care regimen is that that would stump me I

don't know I you know we were talking about skin the other day we said joh doesn't have a whole lot of hair like I should talk but you know he's got very good skin she very shiny you know wear a

lot of makeup it must be yeah it's like I don't know I don't know what you know uh what do they call it like your bass is that what they call it and then they you know they they figured out like what

to put makeup on top of that Foundation Foundation that's it that's it I don't even know girls oh so you get made up a lot oh yeah yeah I've had my mail my nails

painted many times oh my God that's so awesome you know that's the one thing I kind of regret about being a parent is like even though I love my boys I did not get the the little girl experience

yeah yeah have two little girls and like you know what's funny is they're like oh did you ever want a boy I'm like no like this is it's amazing it's just so I I love like as soon as I walk out there and I was just like Daddy I was like and

then they just run and hug in it's like I could die a happy man today yeah no it's great it's great and they are how old again if you don't mind saying yeah five and 11 five and 11 yep yeah so we

got a good five and a half years apart from each other um but they it's you know it's got good and bad good because you know the bigger one could kind of take care of the little one help out with things bad because they never want to do anything at the same time like

every they both have completely different interests does the older one take care of the little one or no you know yeah like a little bit like if we need to like run down to the store or something that like you know we'll set

the alarm in the house and you know she can make sure she can like reach you know glasses of water and like that kind of stuff but like they have like a rule where it's like if I leave no one answers the door and no eating anything

um yeah I'm afraid of like one of them choking but yeah oh yeah totally y totally totally so but yeah they they do really well get her fortunately you can't be too careful you can't be too

careful I have I have three de chokers for that reason you've seen those things yeah yeah I have three of those I have one in like the bathroom and the kitchen it was like any point in time I'm like 20 20 F feet away from a d Joker I had

lots of baseball bats everywhere that's what I had like you and I differ you offer aot you you have a lot of weapons my wife well would probably divorce me if I bought a gun but I really want one

we'll get you one don't tell her oh I know maybe I'll have to come to Florida well we are I am going to Florida we're gonna figure out a way to get you I don't know to get a visit in with John Moran me you and Ryan actually so we

have to talk about that but uh and part of that has to be firing weapons oh yeah absolutely we have a whole arsenal here and it's Florida so you know like you can fire gun yeah there's a gun store like every three feet just go down the

interstates just start shooting out the window go alligator hunting it'll be great right here in the neighborhood my God that's fantastic all right well we should probably get to like what we're actually gonna be talking about here

today and we've got a ton of questions thanks Shazad uh for engaging we'll definitely get to everything in the questions and comment side make sure

that you do do that and if you have this link share it with your friends share it with your just don't keep it to yourself don't be don't be that yeah I mean we like being the best

kept secret but we don't really want to be the best kept secret so right yeah so my my uh my goal with this is to uh is to obviously help out uh media buyers

VPS and marketing CMOS CEOs everyone who is doing anything with relation to any kind of marketing yeah you're known as a Google guy I'm GNA say this again again

because so many people think oh JN is the performance Max guy John John knows performance Max but JN knows marketing

strategy yeah and that that's the key here and Google performance Max meta Tik Tock we just did a three-part series on propenal traffic with Tik Tok this past

week um which is great like you understand all of those channels and you also understand how SEO how Amazon how all these channels worked together how

email how SMS that's all traffic but above that is the strategy into the traffic but and then there's creative and all so you understand it all so I'm

just going to dispel that myth I'm GNA keep saying that over and over again uh you're not just a Google guy although you should see the questions are all Google related here yeah so I've

been known as a Google guy for a long time guy yeah and one of the reasons is because we I never was able to to create creative um as a kind of a single person in anything that I've done like we've

worked with companies that we do creative or we created the creative but I was never the person that actually created the creative so my expertise was always leveraged into a traffic but then you know I can still apply the creative

that's actually what we're going to be talking about today is traffic and creative at different levels and new versus returning users then Cs and all the good stuff um kind of a case study of how to analyze uh featuring looking

at this through the wicked reports platform um the that's what's interesting is it's going to be you know I never created creative but i' I managed a lot of meta accounts you know

even Tik Tok and YouTube and even reddit reddit and and and uh honorary shout out to Bing for trying to be a paid Network I maned that too um and so it's yeah it's it's a lot of fun though

but yeah never never I made my my bones on the on the Google side only because Google was really difficult and really you know a a very hard platform to understand um so that's what I just focused on because it was the hard stuff

I like the puzzle I think one of the coolest things and obviously we'll get into what we're really going to be talking about here is just seeing the evolution of uh we're in the process of acquiring another creative agency who

we've worked with with for quite some time and we haven't quite gotten the integration figured out quite yet um there's still some communication challenges and whenever you acquire an agency or acquire another business

there's always going to be integration challenges so we've sort of had that but to have really really good creative to have topnotch creative and for you to

understand the value of it and also be able to critique it and give insights into it as to how it's going to affect traffic flow obviously different types of creative work at different levels of

traffic so there is that different audiences obviously different avatars obviously like all of this together but this is the essence of marketing like really in digital marketing I really

look at it as a it's a four-legged stool it's traffic it's creative it's after the click and it's data and that's pretty much it so the traffic could be

anything could be any platform you know it could even be you know just your Google searches or you know earned media through a PR you know campaign that you

do or traffic that actually comes from a billboard on the side of the road that's all traffic and I think you have a good understanding of all of that and I think it's really going to be cool as you work

along inside our new creative team how that even UPS your game even more seeing how all that works and how their game is going to get up to even more because they've never really worked with the

traffic side of the equation so it's gonna be fascinating at least from a CEO perspective to see all that happen which G make these YouTube lives even more interesting I think but I'm biased so me

too I like these so with that said it's cool that we're gonna be talking about this today

so uh yeah let's get into it cool so we're going to be using Wicked reports uh to talk about a very specific case study of

optimizations based on the understanding of traffic flow but also understanding how meta sort of ignores what you want and how meta is

going to kind of do what it does best which is a you know achieving what you ask it to set up to do so let's say for you know a maximizing the conversions maximizing

the sales and using sales as a as the objective when you ask meta to take that particular action it will do some things on its own that you're probably not

assuming that's going to happen but it does happen anyway and what we're when you start to crack open The Meta platform and dive deeper into the metrics that meta cannot give you and

meta won't give you and also meta kind of you know skews the data a bit you sort of see how you can set up your

campaigns traffic flow and creative messaging within that flow to optimize for a point of scale that is going to potentially be Limitless when the

structure is set up and then you understand what ad copy is working at each stage so very very simple um type of methodology but we're going to be covering all of the metrics that you need to be very good at in understanding

and also how they correlate together and for you to get a better picture on what is metay and what actually is happening inside of the platform and so let's I'll dive into this one case study here I'm

going to share screen let's do this here all right so this is inside of a account it's been kind of white labeled here um

but this is a a company that I'm a part Equity owner in and this is something that is uh really helpful for us we use Wicked reports to understand the traffic flow but also compare it to the actual

meta platform information to say aha that no longer makes sense and now I actually see what's going on so it's going to be very data heavy we will be able to

potentially show a bit of the creative at the same time uh with inside the platform so you kind of get understanding of it but I think it's really important to know the main pieces

of information to really look at first to say why isn't the scaling or why is it when I put Aspen here it doesn't work like I thought it was supposed to work or it's not measuring the appropriate

information so check this out this is only 7 days worth of data this seven days worth of data is because we actually started the tracking seven days

ago we started scaling up the the scale has been very very good it's been about 100% scale year-over-year for the last four years and we sort of hit a wall and we're not sure as to where that wall is but the Enda just keeps increasing I

mean it went from in the hundreds and nja to 200s now and we're seeing some growth but we're seeing a high incremental endc growth so it's very

expensive and obviously it has a great me Med efficiency ratio because it is heavily subscription model but I wanted to share with you some things that we're looking at that will help you apply to

your own day-to-day level and say aha maybe this is what's happening with mine so in this area here there's three L1 campaigns these L1 campaigns are going

towards cold traffic there's one that is dogs and cats one that's dogs only and one that's cat only it's a dog and cat product and inside of these l1s everyone

assumes okay it's prospecting and that prospecting is going to be bringing me some new good traffic and it's going to work fairly evenly and we're going to do some good creative testing let's see

what our our cold traffic prospecting is is doing on the other side of this we don't realize that 71% of the traffic inside of that campaign is cold that

means 29% is warm this one is 27% warm this is half warm we have an L1 that is half warm which is fairly crazy because this is

the cat only so now we're looking to say okay well cats always had a fairly good inapp platform and a fairly good inapp uh metrics but actually the enac is really really high and that's some warm

traffic uh oh what's going on like there's there's some some Oddities here well when we're looking at the reasons as to why things may not be able to scale is you can see this one's got the

highest row as inside an apppp so. 31

your highest enac 32 your medium enac now. 31 medium enac these two are about

now. 31 medium enac these two are about the same stands to reason right so people are like well let's just you know this one's having the best you know one click and again they're subscription models so we're willing to pay a premium

for these because they have great LTV but this is now of a sudden you immediately start to see the cold versus warm this is cold a good endak bad row

as cold a good endak a bad row as a worm a bad endak and a good Raz so these are flipped okay so now we have first action I'm number one this is remarketing half

the time what is it remarketing well possibly these two these two campaigns okay well now we're even in a world of hurt because I'm taking my cat only remarketing my

dog interesting so now we have a first level of uh oh this is kind of broken now the other part we have to think about is inside of Meta Meta is going to

tell us that these cpcs are actually um there we go like $2 9781 however because Wicket actually tracks effective cost from new visit

we're looking at $3 256 $328 for a new new click so now even more complexity when you're not having this data we thought it was a181 which

is actually the cheapest it is actually the most expensive but it has the best R why isn't it scaling ah it's it's actually costing you more money to bring a new user to the site

because it has the highest amount of Enda because this is warm but it's bringing you remarketing cheap clicks it's actually not going to scale at a very good level because it is the most expensive firsttime click yep all right

now we have now we have kind of a a first first thing that's that's achieved here which is okay what is actually driving some incremental um incremental value I have two of these actually pulled up at the same time because I'm

going to share with you also the difference between the first click attribution of one and then the last click attribution of one because now we're going to look at okay if it's half form traffic what's actually going on so let's can I just can I just stop you

there and interrupt like what you're showing here is something that is relatively new inside Wicked reports too all these things like

enak by by now everyone should know it and well we've only had this is our third so maybe they

customer right people speed up come on everybody get with us enac is

new customer acquisition cost yeah so and you're also looking at uh you're looking at percentage of new visits and you're also looking at

effective cpnv which is we have a lot of metrics here we have an alphabet soup of metrics which by the way if you want to get the

translation of all this I would head on over to Perpetual traffic.com MPI you can also get it at tier 111.com

MPI as in marketing performance indicators but this this is a new interface for Wicked which now shows this stuff couple months ago you didn't

have this it was always there it was always lurking in the background and Scott and his team thank like they were very attuned to like what it is that we're looking at now and you're looking

at in order to be able to talk about this stuff because before we're sort of Flying Blind we might have to go to third party platforms but just these metrics alone are this is really really

important because this is the next level of marketing it's not just in a Rass and I know I'm speaking you know I'm I'm I'm preaching to the converted as my old

boss used to say um he also used to say we're singing out of the same Himel I don't know he was very religious but anyway how old is he he was yeah it's

like 70 now um 80 I don't even know if he's still around we're turnning the same butter R turnning the turning the same butter there boy yeah we're dialing the same channel on the

TV um but this is this is new stuff here so if you've never if you haven't explored Wicked reports like this is new things that are giving insights into marketing activity that we didn't have

previously on this platform correct me if I'm wrong yeah and this is that's exactly right the other part too is that we don't want to take these as gospel

these metrics are not 100% true it's physically impossible to actually have uh 100% accurate attribution they are close how close are they no one will

ever know but what I can tell you is that if you measure all of these broken clocks the same every day and Trends happen aha directionally it's it's correct you're pretty much gonna know

it's around I don't know whatever it is right now 3:00 yeah like all I know be 255 310 but it's there abouts three o'clock right like if this might be 80 and that might

be 60 but that's still higher than this yeah so that's what I'm saying is they directionally accurate and and that's what we're looking to count on is and then test and iterate and then also

measure again it's it's measure to us twice cut once and so that's yeah that's exactly right it's a it's a big deal and what's interesting about this whole thing is when you start to kind of now

go a little bit but that was this is the basics this is just snapshot of Health yeah now go into more complicated when we then open up the ads

we can kind of see some some other information here that's that's populating we get to see the actual adsets and the ads and now the adsets and the ads are then going to tell us a

whole secondary story and the secondary story is going to be what's actually working and what is not working and when I say what actually is working what's not working we're going to dive one

layer deeper into more complicated so this again I'm using Wicked ports I hope it doesn't sound like I'm sales pitching wiger reports I'm using this as a tool the education that you must learn here

is the value is this is the the the this is a toolbox but if you throw a hammer through a plate glass window you're a really crappy Carpenter right so that's this is the toolbox that we use so if

you look at the next level down we're looking at two different things you have first click and last click so you're going to start to see some things change 259 first click 273 last click okay then

we have 698 first click and also 69 8 that as from a CAC and an En absolutely not no okay I'm just making sure I'm like wow yeah we want to be

under 200 that's that's our goal so that's what we're doing we're using this tool in order to get there and what's interesting about this is what we don't ever really know is this is a0 three

that's a 0 42 so we're okay we're about 0.06 off but holy we're double the endak more than double the endak okay now this starts to come to light as to

why this is a bad idea and you are pulling that that column is being pulled from inapp because it's it's Facebook that is inao ass there yeah thank you I'm doing a bad job of explaining this the Facebook problems that you're seeing

here are pulled directly through API from Facebook themselves so this is what happens when you log in this is more the truth C it's cleaned up a bit based upon

our exclusive connection but still it's not 100% right right and so that's like again these are directional like this you see here is better than that now oh my gosh that a lot much better so I

probably shouldn't be spending that on here yeah so there's there's some things here that we're going to see now watch this though here's another part that no one can really ever contest to and this is where everyone just says well I don't

know Advantage Plus and they just default to Advantage plus one big thing cross your fingers trust the metag gods hopefully their stocks rising and they give me cheap cpms

and it's going to do good for a business yeah is the question that everyone answers is well we don't really know what was the first shown second shown first click second click third click fourth click Etc okay we're not going to

be 100% accurate on that here either but we're directionally accurate now what do I mean by that you see how we have a $1,500 cost or sorry a $4,900 cost here

we have Revenue but $4,900 cost look back period is sorry to keep interrupting Days Seven Days got it I only have seven days worth of data this is just the first seven days of tracking so all these numbers are going to change

next week as the as the data bakes because for sure this is this which here's the crazy part though these new visits are only in a 7-Day period since Inception this is as cold as it will

ever look which means next week these will look warmer when the people last week that didn't show up this week show up next week obvious question for me what what's the buying cycle on these

products is it less days 11 days all right so you're really early in on the DAT out okay really early yeah really early so we don't want to make any very expensive decisions off of this stuff

today but here's what's kind of crazy is okay this 273 here has a decent amount of purchases there's $1,500 revenue and

a decent amount of spend the 698 also has a decent amount of spend but the the change is when you look at first click versus last click only the top row

changes 273 and 259 so you see that actually is less expensive first click more expensive second click okay now

when we go down to the next row this 698 well 698 first click all right 698 first click okay maybe you know started some Journeys and we got some good like Downstream effect into L2 and L3 maybe they Google brand maybe they came back

organically maybe they s for an email C you know all those stuff will come to light but 698 first click and 698 last click this is your L1 actual ad copy creative comparative to the other AD

yeah they are clicking on this much more they are clicking on this first time and they're clicking on this first time what's funny about this is this actually got more expensive on the second click what is that an indicator of well it means that we probably had a first click

somewhere over here but this second click actually converted them and that's why it's a higher cost on second click interesting all right now in an L1 perspective what is actually getting a first click oneclick conversion at a

high amount of conversions 28 for example where this thing is showing 698 with only two from a first click perspective or sorry 698 two from a first click perspective and a last click

perspective you can see the sales go from three on first click to six on last click this is way overs spent and not as compelling this is the ad that is actually resonating with your majority

cold traffic audience you can actually see that this 68 being warmer means that on my second click going from 3 to six I'm way over spent on an ad that is

barely doing any help for the first ad is tacking on a whole bunch of BAC because it is warmer and doing the second click in my l1's more often so

good ad bad ad good ad bad ad add copy create what is it can we actually see it I don't know whether that's the next thing that's sort of the next level but we now

know what it is we know it's Stacy dog with sight versus grateful lamb dog with sight these are influencers so I'm gonna hold off on this just right now just got somebody in

trouble on the a nobody's watching this no no no Joey Larry don't don't tell anybody okay I see you tell um and Dave you too so that's what

we're looking at now is the whole big amalgamation of meta which is like we're just gonna kind of blend everything we're also going to put view attribution when I look at my platforms and I look

at my goals 99.99% of the time it is to scale that's all I want to do is scale and I now know that in my first click environment I have a winner and I have

an immediate loser I have another immediate loser but then I found another winner so it's interesting now it's 225

Annie so if we look at Annie 193 oh this here I have $1,300 on 193 this is actually better enak wise than Stacy and

it is actually better first click than last click another winner so when you're looking at ad optimizations you have 259 193 is this better no because you have the economies of scale this one spent

only 1300 versus 5K if this 1300 was 5K would that 259 probably now they're equal little too early to say exactly exactly this is the trends that we're doing when you're looking at ad optimization most of the time you look and say that has a bad row as I'm gonna

shut it off but you have no idea if it's first click last click if it was cold traffic how much of it was cold traffic did it actually come from that campaign all that stuff you're just like man I I I

hope that's if you're looking an app you will have no idea as to what's really working is what you're saying one is looking bad and the other one's looking actually pretty good yeah but still it's too early to say because it's only a

s-day look back period and it's typically it's 11 days as you said yeah so but the point is this is directional as to figure out what creative what

messaging might be resonating with your audience what whatever this audience is I this looks like it's open targeting to me you know potentially just based upon the nomenclature but this is exactly

what we said that we were going to discuss today is like the the the link between AD performance and creative and how to actually look at it through a third party software tool because if you

did this through the the inapp performance you wouldn't be able to discover this you'd probably turn off the wrong ad right yeah you would and that's what's funny too is is sometimes the warmer things are the better it

looks and that's what's really interesting about it is if something is really warm we'll get we'll get to that when we get into the l2s and l3s but sometimes the warmer something is the

better inapp it looks but it also you really can't tell what was the first ad that was clicked though and so that's what we're going to be kind of uncovering today is using directionals starting the people on their Journey most effectively will Downstream lower

your endak right because you're not having enac Oddities bolted on at 1K firstclick rates for weeks on end yeah even though it's like well you know I couldn't tell and meta still putting ad

SP to us so probably likes it and all the normal stuff that we usually kind of figure out because we just don't know just don't know exactly so just explain for the audience before you get into

that I mean my job is interrupt you by the way I know is L1 L2 L3 explain to everyone what that is because we used to

go L1 through L5 we don't do that anymore because that's too granular explain to me what L1 through L3 is L1 and L2 and L3 is very is fairly

simplistic um L1 is a pure cold traffic so no one that's ever been to the site no one that's ever interacted with an ad no one that has ever been to a meta or Facebook page no one that's ever been

added anything to cart or has purchased anything from us so as cold as we could possibly make it which is really funny because that only gets us about 60% cold

right okay yeah so your your l1s are still l2s and l3s yeah oh yeah that's why L one through five is like it's kind of G to blend together yeah yeah I mean

when you know pre iOS 14 we used to be able to exclude these pretty well we just exclude you know the uh view content event and then we exclude the ad

to well we really just exclude the view content event because then you'd be excluding the add to cart and the initiate checkout and obviously the purchases as a result of that based upon the look back period but now it's a little bit foggier even though we do

have a tool that actually makes it these exclusions a little bit better you're still you're never going to get 100% cold traffic no no and you're actually also not gonna get 100% re-engagement traffic which we're going to talk about

not gonna get 100% remarketing traffic which we're going to talk about but correct there is points of opportunity to find that you will not find in app you can only find through the wiked platform and that's what we're gonna share with you cool the or if you have a

third- partyy attribution tool that does the same thing great this is how you'll use that this is how you do it inside the l2s these are people who have engaged with L1 ads but still have not

been to the site these are people that need a little extra love so how do you do that you set up your exclusions how what's the your exclusions in L1 are the same exclusions

in L2 the only thing is different is instead of excluding the people who have engaged with your ads you are including the people who have engaged with your ads okay but you haven't been to the website you haven't added to cart you

haven't purchased anything um it's just that one step further inside from L1 so these are basically video engagement audiences in most cases yeah video gam what's nice about that is if um there's

a specific they go one step deeper you usually will want to use a time lag and so the time lag typically I I'll use Google for the time lag or you could do your own mer changes um if I add an ad spend on the state when do I usually see

the increase in Revenue Flatline um you can use that from a mer perspective or if you want to cheat sheet and you're running Google ads go into Google ads and look at your first impression to conversion if it's like a 10day sales

cycle it seems about right test that um but your but by l2s are people that have watched 25% of our L1 video and they

stay in that audience for 12 days got it if I'm not using video though how do you exclude if you're not using video that's the the part that is a little bit more

tricky um I would say that your l2s can simply just do everything but that is like a site visitor but not add the cart not be can check out like another of the lower funnel events because they may have visited but they still may not have

need they still may not have had enough love yet but that part is what we're gonna be kind of going into because meta actually just ignores all that anyway right right yeah it's it's really really

bad so that's what we're going to look at creative first okay then L3 is simply just website visitors which it's so funny because you look at all3 website

visitors and it's 44% cold awesome thank you meta yeah and this is an uploaded this is an uploaded custom audience list I

have to assume or that's it's manually or it's automatically synced with anyone who like fires a patw event or you know hits a certain page or the URL itself

it's set up by our friends that start with a B oh yeah got it got it so those people and it should be very very accurate

which means metas might just be just screwing all of us which I wouldn't doubt it so because they show in at R so why not go warm everywhere so so it's

never gonna be exact the day like we will we will celebrate when we do have exact data but it's just never going to be exact okay so keep going this is yeah amazing well check this out here too this is what's interesting this is where

ad copy becomes very very very important watch this now this is again the first week of data but it's directionally on par with what I would expect inside the

L2 ads here these are people who have engaged with L1 ads and then we showed them two k two uh ugc C of testimonials

call them Donna and Claudia and to the audience that was more warm we said hey you're making the right decision on this product and here's why and people are like okie dokie that sounds good I'm

starting to buy into it now dropping the enac excellent yep now on the colder traffic it says hey you're making the right choice on this product here's why and on cold traffic they said I have no

idea who the hell you are what you're talking about double the enac yeah so the ad copy is extremely important where the colder the audience is the more introductory your your ads

need to be the warmer your audience is the more likely they're probably going through the funnel that you're probably targeting which is why you also want to take into consideration is that ad wrong or is it to the wrong

audience so devil's advocate here yeah so both of these you're trying to assess which ad is actually working best at L2

okay which is people who have engaged with your L1 ad sort of I I would say there's a there's one more layer is which ad in my L2 is engaging when I

can when I can say with enough reasonable confidence that they're equal and not too cold versus is too warm okay but my point in asking that question is

that I always think Facebook and meta is always going to take the easy way out if they have an audience of a hundred people in an audience and they know 50% of them have engaged with your ad before

they're going to make their ad platform look as smart as possible so they're going to probably show the warm traffic in this particular

case that's just my bias against meta so well you're saying that disagree with that or you don't are you saying that there's GNA be a higher volume of warm

yeah so these are L2 ads okay you've got a certain percentage that are still in there that's cold in that audience but because meta wants to look as good as

possible they're GNA say hey these this guy as opposed to that guy or whoever is yeah they're going to show to that part of the audience that already they know has a higher likelihood to convert to

make the app look better yes and and that's what we're kind of leveraging we won't be able to control it but we'll leverage it got it so for example if this next week this goes down to 30 and

this goes up to 60 which is I think where we're probably G to probably Trend that way if that becomes warmer in my L1 that's fine and this becomes colder in

my l or sorry this becomes colder in my L2 and warmer in my L2 great but I know the message that is resonating with the warmer traffic and maybe these people have to visit the website before testimony will work that's okay I'm

Switzerland I'm agnostic I'm trying to find the funnel not necessarily trying to manipulate it I'm leveraging I guess I would say okay so if it wants to go warmer excellent and we actually have another case study here that we'll we'll

share with you in a minute how that worked but if it goes warmer we react to it actually you know what let me pull up that case study real quick because this is actually it's is right up that that

same that same alley here um I'm going to stop sharing real quick because I have to log in to their account I don't want their information shown it's almost

done you don't want millions of people to know login are just give me your last pass account like exactly yeah sure there we go no so anyway so the point is

is like we're we're still ear like in this case study that we just talked about this is early days this is seven days in they you just installed Wicked seven days ago that's oh it's we're not

making any expensive decisions yet we're we're assuming it's going to Trend away Trend a certain way and then react to it if that's true right you're just looking for signals exactly here's here's the

other part do you see how our L2 and our L3 here which is excluding website traffic and targeting website traffic are both really red hot warm well because of that because of

what we did uh what we found out is that because these are about the same audience we were actually dropping myrrh because we were overspending on remarketing this SP here and this ad SP

used to be equal used to be B basically like a 80110 and now we're like well we actually got a pull back on our L2 because if we look at our information

here our ecnv is definitely the least expensive on our uh our traffic here but when this was blown out this endak was

going just as high as L1 so what that means is that I'm taking good quality traffic L1 I'm throwing all my profitability out on L2 and then finally a sale on L3 so this needs to be reduced

in spend and then a meta of course is like great l12 and three A2 A5 A8 all right good it's correlated right so that's like decision making

based upon like the the previous case study we haven't made any decisions here no not yet on this one you've got enough data at at what point do you start

making these decisions like seven days for an 11-day sales cycle is obviously is too early but what like just tell our anybody who's listening or watching here

like when do you start making those when do when is your confidence interval high enough yeah to be able to make a decision yep so you want to have the funnel that you're trying

to push the traffic two or push the traffic through have a chance to actually run through its cycle so we have another client that I think Joey

saw like last week there was a $4,000 product that was a 30-day sales cycle so I'm not going to really make decisions until day 31 and I'm like I'm going to test that and I'll make directional decisions

because I might actually fully be realized on day 60 because day 30 is like you know they're starting to buy in day 31 that's the Sal cycle that's why it's called a cycle so day 31 through 60 is good but I can get some initial data

of like completely bad really bad no engagement really high hack off all the all the the extremities so if you have a if you have a $10 dog toy like in another brand that I own shout out to

boy stick central.com if you guys want some but if you have a bu stick bully stick Central I gotta have it's sponsored now um but if you have a um if you have a dog it's gonna cost you in

future episode I'm to send you a check that's my sponsorship um so that uh that the the that's a $10 product our sales cycle is

like instantaneous our L2 and L3 is like 5% of our budget because l1's are just like oh I definitely want to buy it impulse buy exactly I mean after two days I'm like I got it I got everything I need um and so that's the thing too is

like those sales Cycles are going to be extremely Paramount to the success of your optimizations because if you measure it too long or Too Short you're

chasing your tail every time yeah yeah this is cool right this is freaking cool so uh kudos to the the the Wicked the

wickeds for getting this because this is what we've wanted for quite some time I mean you can use 30 third party attribution software you want yeah quite honestly but like this is I mean we're

biased because we're part owners I will say that there's my disclaimer right there but the point is is like this is what we want the reason why we became part own is so we could have these kinds of views and be able to get this type of

insight and this really does bring creative and traffic together so now you can using this data go to the creative team you know in the strategy sessions

or the preall planning sessions saying hey you know I'm finding out is that you know this influencer is really kind of crushing it at this level we need more of this we need this more at L1 this

messaging seems to be really resonating once you obviously gather the data and that's where those two worlds sort of combine now where you're really sharing good data to make I hate to say it because everyone says it in the agency

space data driven decisions based upon real business metrics yeah now instead data D decisions based on inaccurate data yeah what every agency says yeah we're a data driven agency I'm like yeah

it's all based on inaccurate data you freaking Bozo and here's what's crazy too is this is the most important column you'll ever have in your entire life the reason why

here watch this creative strategy I love that column by the way yep watch this creative new visits percentage if you're not if you're just listening to this but definitely you go to watch this so go

ahead the new visit percentage watch this is I love this so much all right so this one this is our L3 this is remarketing now because we know that

meta doesn't give a about us we see that our 204 and our 219 had some pretty good end cacks this is also half War

yeah now what would this mean to you if the ones that are very warm has a high end CAC it tells me two things this is your L3 audience that's still half cold

yes because Google does not or meta does not care Google doesn't either but meta doesn't care watch this though well here's what this tells me is a creative update hey all right so we have Michelle

and the benefits and results see I wasn't gonna name any names now you're getting people in trouble here I'm not using last names that one I think was like a their

username oh okay good don't worry I I'll be really I'll be really nice to Michelle so Michelle and the benefits and results page these two here when this when these people are half cold

they actually get really good enacs and you know what this enac is this enac is actually better than my L2 at the same level of coldness and

it's actually getting pretty close to my L1 coldness um not L1 coldness L1 encs if they were about the same coldness you know what I would do I'd take these two and test these in L1 when they're half

cold they work pretty well then know what this other part here this is the other part the Donna poor Donna right now is giving me a $399 endak you know what that tells me that

when this is warmed we're spending too much on remarketing let's pull back but the creme to the creme meta says the exact opposite so if you're in app you're like

shut these damn things off no you say is keep Donna it's a057 that's your $400 end cack right there right well yeah yeah yeah but but shut off Michelle and

benefits and results for sure exactly and now to to meta's defense because I have to defend meta every now and then because we do have a good relationship with them that probably is a very small

overall sample size oh for sure for sure but your I your point is this is like all right they're resonating with a half cold audience try that up in L1 yeah granted it's still you're gonna get like

you know 40% best case scenario warm audiences even in your l1s that's okay I'm 50% right now that but those metric if they

were 10% worse still compete with my best dad's no one got it that's cool yep so that's that's what I was thinking here is if I said okay this is 204 and

219 well my L1 ads right now are 259 and 193 they're in range yeah it's not bad so $200 CAC and CAC is the goal here

yeah under 200 would be best under 200 okay and this is only seven days worth of data so my sales cycle will show encs lower next week so this is what I'm what I'm what I'm doing right now is saying

aha I understand the State of the Union next week how did they change am I am I correct in my assumptions as how these metrics are moving and if so these are decisions now that we need to make that's awesome so as a tease for next

week's show which is going to be the same time same channel 2:30 we're gonna go back to that by the way are we oh yeah yeah made we made one change today so we're I say it's too early but let's

just do that we we shifted 1K from something to another something dude that's sick is it just like stupid that we're like so excited about these sorts of things I nerd out all the time like

I'm the I'm the biggest I failed math in high school twice put some marketing and some money behind him like all right now is just gambling with numbers oh my God yeah

statistics my senior year was like the worst thing ever uh and now I'm using statistics all the time all right we are

gonna answer some questions here uh Shazad he has been waiting patiently has I mean launched it was like like all right yeah I know we we got it we

appreciate you tuning in side I'm working with a client I've tested a lot of campaigns but only for Pac only for him only pmax works he has around 300K

SKS and all or above $1,000 pmax never had branded terms but it has been six months I think it's got part two in there and then part two is I'm running

6p Max with tros all below 200% but it works for him and I don't know how all I do is change t r as nothing else in account LOL and it works I'm confused

now yep so I have a few I have a few things to look into that may help you understand what may be going on so first thing you want to look at is what is the overall site traffic and overall

returning um users and returning purchasers what pmax does a very good job at depending upon where the source is coming from but even if it's ga4 which is usually the least Omni Channel selfish it's still going to over

attribute to itself so what that means is that especially with per performance Max that can use engage view conversions especially if you have YouTube videos in there and on shorts it only needs 5 Seconds of a view before they can now

potentially control the next 30 60 90 days of attribution especially every attribution from that user so it compounds over time what I would say is

if you look at the actual metrics on the site like a company that has a great SEO like have great organic placement pmax just skyrockets to the Moon immediately and it doesn't really matter what I

would would testes two things if you're not sure one a safe thing is to pull back on that ad spend to see if there's actually any Top Line this will tell you if it's producing or if it's attributing those are two very different things one

costs a lot of money the other one actually hurts you so or one actually helps you so if you pull back on the Aspen by let's say 20% and you give it you know seven to 10 days depending on the product sales cycle it's a$1 th000

aov so I'd imagine it's probably at least 10 days but pulling back on it and see if two things happen one the Ina Ras increases has the same attribution but for L CPC Google's just going to show a higher row as you give it more money and

two does the actual Top Line ever actually waver if it does pmax is is very good if it can be extremely well for this structure it's very difficult to have the same level of automated

awesomeness in a standard shopping Dynamic marketing meta platform with that many SKS so PMX May absolutely be helping problem is I've seen that probably by 5% of the time um so I would

I would look at that and the other part too is going to the landing page in the reports in the landing page uh report go and filter by performance Max then

remove the landing page the ad group uh these mobile site speed and something else it'll tell you which one but add a column called MC space ID and then when you overlay that that'll tell you how

much is shopping versus search because if it's mostly shopping and you see those cpcs are under a dollar probably a lot of dynamic marketing and not as much actual lead generation so that means also could be safe to shut it off

got it all right hopefully Shazad we got the answer that you were looking for there we're going to bolt through all of these there's a lot of them hey John I've observed that when I increase t on

Google shopping spends on website visitors increases am I am testing assigning negative bid adjustments for website visitors have you tested this

yeah so when you increase a Tas goal in Google shopping oh you're saying in Google shopping spends on website visitors increases so you're saying spend on website visitors increases or

the actual spend increases or the visitors increase or is just costing you more money um spend on website visit I'm going to assume spend on website

visitors increases no well that would mean that the CPC and the ad spend is going up which is usually the opposite of what happens when you increase a t- as

increasing a tcpa yes increasing a Tas usually has the opposite effect like you've went from 400 Tas to a T Ro as he usually reduces the campaign so can you respond back in and just make sure I'm understanding your question correctly

yeah I think it's BR brid I'm gonna butcher his name Bridge rashan gar oh my God I just totally butcher we apologize in advance yeah apologize in advance for

butchering your name this is from Larry I know how to I know how to pronounce Larry uh I'm not gonna try his last name though from prior shows about hiding con hiding conversions from Google to

increase Ro scale that only works if you know what terms convert correct there are Pros cons if you do that on a new campaign this is the John avoid take out

conversion tracking strategy I believe y yeah so I do want to be very very very clear the only real reason why you'd want to do this is to scale without getting hit by limited by bid strategy which is typically what happens on

manual CPC when you try to scale so what I would do is all you want to do is show Google that is less valuable it's not to say like haha now I can pay half price for cpcs that's GNA kill cality traffic you still want positioning and you still

want good quality Search terms nothing changes in terms of uh the actual human interaction with your ad that's still there um you're just not going to be paying twice as much for that same

position so when you kill conversion tracking if you reduce your CPC you don't have to but you can it probably should by 20% if you reduce your CPC and you still see that your positioning your

placement is solid then that puts you into a position to now you can just continually add in more and more more more more ad spend and don't get hit by the limited by bid strategy because Google will then say wait a minute we

know this is valuable to you you don't get anym pay us more got it makes sense uh just looking for a clarification on that previous question Larry hopefully

that answers your question for you Joey Joey bidner love these lives tuning in late starting from the beginning commenting just to help boost the algo thanks Joey that wasn't even a

question it was just sort of a props thanks Joey we love you buddy appreciate uh every week at 2:30 p.m. Eastern that

is our plan for right now yep unless you know John and I get hit by a bus or something like that and I have some more time if you do after this so if we want to go cool let's do it so do I yeah get

an extra get what you pay for extra uh yeah we're gonna get some extra time let me just make sure my wife isn't calling me because that's that's the that's the true boss that I actually do really

order to no I'm actually good all right so all right Mel Mel North nice easy name thanks Mel for tuning in uh for a service-based business new to Google ads

for lead genen would you suggest starting with a manual CPC strategy or Max clicks to gather data then move to conversions or take a different approach I remember when I used to do this on

Facebook all the time John what do you say so I would say for a lead gen that is new to Google ads I would actually

start off with a um manual CPC strategy I would I know this is like the it's the opposite of what I normally say I would start off with a manual CPC strategy

with ecpc and only use exacts the reason why is depending upon your level of understanding of your business and your mark your your product

not product service Market fit product Market fit I would imagine you probably have some good Search terms that you know would work and if you're service based business I'm just going to use a bad example but like dentists near me

yeah I'm I'm going to want to bid that high and I want to bid that exact and if there is someone that bids above me because they're on Max conversions that ecpc will help scoop up some of the conversions when it thinks it can it's

kind of like Max conversions you which you will need in the beginning when it starts to understand the traffic um don't use phrase phrase is just expensive broad um and then broad match

unless you're going to use maximized conversions don't use broad match it will never work with manual CPC it just continually always stays Broad and never self learns who the person is that's searching so I would say manual CPC with

ecpc enabled bid aggressively like five bucks um see where you land on your search and pressure SE top and pressure share and search absolute top search and pressure share and then I would move into a probably of Max conversions or

even Max you know I say Max conversions with those same exact afterwards then you can move on to know cool cool nerdy John strategies like any year from now Mel I would highly

recommend you uh watch the replay at half speed for that answer I'm just telling you now all right Joey again Joey for the second question question yeah from last week's L1 L2 L3 video

remarketing strategy for L2 and L3 is John using Max conversions or manual cpv video remarketing strategy I don't

remember that actually I don't know did that I think what he's referring to

is my one two three is meta yeah L1 l23 is meta so maybe rephrase that question Joey we're g to little little extra was

that it if this is about potentially the video sequencing that was manual cpv but that's on YouTube oh yeah yeah yeah we didn't we didn't do that as a

live that's a whole other thing um yeah we'll uh we'll have to do we have to do a show on that so l12 and three I always use sales optimized

maximize no bid no cost cap okay and that's video sequencing uh the video sequencing is manual cpv because you can only use you can't use an automated bidding strategy on YouTube for sequencing unfortunately I wish you

could that'd be amazing got it how do you break up those like if you have a sequence of six or seven videos like what would be L1 two and three or is it

just Mayhem no I I I really annoy you I will run 16 videos in a sequencing with manual cpv where the step uh the step transition uh threshold is impression not viewer skip impression like did you

see that ad excellent you're gonna see another one awesome you're see another one and you go through 16 how do you know that I actually like the

video like at what point I'm glad you [Applause] asked uh I'm gonna show Cas keep skipping that hyros guy's ads I'm trying

to get rid of him and there well see my ads are different don't buy hros please yeah my my ads are different every time I'm not that mean yeah but I mean I'm mean but I'm not that mean all right so

this is great I'm just gonna I'm gonna share uh this is a very very very very very uh exensive account so I'm just

gonna kind of share a quick snapshot actually uh let's do this December through March this is actually pretty cool it's it's a lot of fun um now this

is a we will get to your second question even though I just flashed it up but we we'll get to all the questions here today so absolutely absolutely just drop it in it's going to be Mayhem by the way if you don't know what the marketing

performance indicators are enac like we've added more we're adding more and more to this chch by the way there still more and more we we only picked 15 but like we did a podcast episode on this

yesterday Lauren found three more that we didn't have so anyway but we did we did the top 15 so get that at tier 111.com MPI you can also get it at

Perpetual traffic.com MPI it's on the screen right there so all right so uh well I have to take a screenshot and

you'll have to trust me that the rest of it down down belowed here we go yeah I'm GNA have to do this here okay so let's do this uh and do a screenshot all right let me represent John's John's the

fastest screenshot finder gu who has like a thousand tabs open I've ever I've ever seen so this goes all the way down to sequence number

16 these are 16 videos where you'll see the past sequences you're going to watch one then when you watch one you're going to see two then when you watch one you're going to see two then then you're going to see three so you can see that it adds on one every single time now

here's what ends up happening these are all conversions you can see each patch each this is only about three weeks long and I spent probably one or2 th000 or up to almost $3,000 in every single one of

these videos watch this you see one video you get a 0. 29 click the eight you see the second one you get 37 you see a third one you see a 36 you see the fourth one you see a 042 once I get to

five six seven and eight ah you hate me forever goes 7.17 .16

0.18 so my level of Interest it kind of stops after four videos makes sense so they either give up or they buy buy die or unsubscribe

exactly I found out the pointment where you're just like you know what I'm not clicking on these ads anymore yeah yeah exactly that's when everyone's skipping uh all right so I think we answered that

question Larry has a question here on when comparing same strategy in Google ads versus Bang would you say they're they're the same or way different any

issues in bing bing is actually pretty much a control cat control V of Google um the only thing I would say is actually really bad is their tracking is atrocious like it is horrible like EV

anytime bang just wants to throw up random like Revenue they will like I have campaigns that have like 11 and 12x in aoz and I'm like I can't even track a sale yet like I have no idea where this is coming from and I've looked through

like two different third party attribution softwares like everything like I will never understand their inapp tracking it will make zero sense to me

um and we've tried some pretty you know pretty good quality people blot out lar like people that are like in you know they're the creme to La Creme when it comes to tracking and still can't get it to even fire correctly so I like it it

is a good platform um it is very simplistic don't use a performance Max and if you ever see anything called like median inclusion avoid that at all cost otherwise you're going to show your ass to 13-year-olds on Xbox but their search and their shopping that kind of stuff is

actually pretty good I just don't trust the inap tracking it's worse than I think I've ever seen before is it still True to this day I haven't advertised on

Bing but I I made my uh uh I guess I made my bones on Yahoo and what was before Bing now I forget but anyway is

it true that Bing waying by the Stars yeah oh Jesus yeah was it ask Chiefs it was ask Chiefs

yeah ask Chiefs I crushed on as juuse John like you were probably in you were probably in diapers back then but anyway you prob like high school but is it still true that if you

wanted to Target an older demographic on desktop Bing yeah because they still you know it's a Dying Breed like no pun intended but they're yeah they're literally opening up their laptop and just pluging and play now here's one

thing Bing came out and said hey we've actually lowered our Target demographic to 35 or like that's the user base average that is true yeah I talked to a guy that's kind of inside the know in meta met in bing and he goes well what

happened was you got this 55 and 65 year old group and then you also have the 13y olds on Xbox that's why I said if you ever see media inclusions don't do that because between 60 and 13 you get

30 they show yeah they showed display ads on Xbox what is that like the the U curve like 13 year olds and then the 60y

olds yeah exactly everybody 30 oh my God me be hell a lot more helpful all right Dave Ashley again Dave's coming back for more should agency start to offer more than just marketing Services traffic

creative in reporting as an example should they be helping with operations since they are so deep in the data you know what's interesting is there's a fine line to what you would tell them is

things that they can work on and if you actually have the skill set to get it done that's two big things so for example traffic is last creative is second to last reporting is kind of

first those are the ways that you would set things up like let's get metrics upon what's happening then we know where our issues are is it too much new too much returning then now we know kind of how to talk to these people or like we

just haven't impressed anybody with a new ad and have no new customers this last six months oh God okay that's really you know creative heavy then traffic is the application of that um so I would say that those are your steps

you want to go through however if you have a company that has a horrible sales team they don't use the CRM no one answers the phone call they are blacklisted off of the Google Ser

because their SEO black hat strategy six months ago you didn't find they if their emails are not being delivered because they got banned off of the email client or they send you know the wrong type of like you know abandoned cart sequences

to the wrong people if they piss people off on Facebook because they call them stupid in the comments you're never gonna win so that's the part two it's like know who you're working with know how healthy that company is because

chances are they're not just this growing awesome Kick-Ass company and you've been the secret this whole time it's very rarely ever the case um so just understand that the reason why they're working with agencies a lot of

the times maybe be because they're trying to cure with traffic and that's will eventually get you fired in four months uh there's so many nuances to

this question I will just say that for the agencies that are watching this and will be watching this the agency game is far

harder than it is today than it ever was and seven 10 years ago when it was simple it was and tracking was good it was easy like all you needed is a laptop and a little expertise I get it you know

I got fired from the corporate world twice this is the only thing that I figured out that I really wanted to do I wouldn't do it now though I would run for the hills unless you know you are

just an absolute ninja in one area and one area only but those types of agencies are going the way of the doto yeah they they really are the single Source agencies that's why we're doing

rollups that's why we're doing Acquisitions we have a list of seven or eight that we're looking at just because everyone started in a specific area and now they're like well I need all these

other things but how the hell do I do it how the hell do I get the expertise you know there's a financial benefit to doing this with private Equity all these other sorts of things that could be its own thing but like I would stay the hell

out of the agency game if I was somebody who's thinking about starting now because it this stuff is not simple and wicked reports there's a question here about Wicked reports it's like Wicked

reports ain't cheap like you still like if you're an agency charging two grand a month like you probably can't afford Wicked reports like you might be able to but you know you've got to have really

good profit margin or you're working 90 hours a week and it's you and maybe a VA yeah so yeah and I I work with a lot of those Freelancers that they'll pay me just Consulting time to help them like

understand how to be better in platforms and it's like they're working 14 hours day they're making six figures a month but they're working 14 hours a day and they're like if I stop I die like right

I get it I did it yeah ask my wife and kids like Dad you know the internet never sleeps and never does Dad for 10 years yeah so but and that took its toll believe me I used to have a full head of

hair me too I've been doing this nine years yeah oh my God all right so hopefully that answers your question probably not in the way that you want I would sa from

the actual like the actual execution of those platforms um and like not actual execution but the actual like you know the services to provide if you are going to be an agency that also provides other

services besides like paid traffic and operations and shipping rates and the inventory sourcing and your 3pls that you're getting it from and the taxes in

those areas and I mean unless you're very very good at that I wouldn't but I would say here's what I think is wrong go fix that with someone who is smart like you can point them out and send

them in Direction be say like if I drive traffic to this this will implode you need to fix this first find a good person that specializes in that um that's not paid traffic kind of thing at a certain point it's like you're running

their business then shouldn't you have an equity stake in the business if you're going that far down you're actually talking about Supply Chain management and vendor relations you're part of the business you should have a

percentage of the overall revenue or the percentage of profit overall Revenue because far less manipulated uh I I wouldn't though I mean I think you know we very very rarely go down that route I didn't want

this to become an agency talk but we have been offered many many many many times Equity stakes and we say yeah yeah we'll do it but we'll work with you to see what your businesses like and they're like no we're not going to work

with you so fee for service percentage of Revenue I think is a good way to start but then if you have that expertise if you like what John's saying you're then part of operations if you're

part of operations you're the business you're not a vendor anymore and you should be paid as such um yeah but it's very very challenging uh the question here from Arthur is pretty straightforward we you say Wicked

reports or another attribution software is essential for getting these new versus returning visitors percentages from meta and Google and everything like the screen that you showed before we were talking about that being in Wicked

reports comments thoughts I I would say yes um like you can go to beach whale or triple whale and you the information out sorry I don't like them very much they

stole from me a while ago but uh you go you can go to hydro hydros you can go to hydranga [Laughter]

docomo's coming already John go ahead that's okay I just I misspoke sorry about that my apologies to the public uh words are hard so inside of uh

wig reports I like the way that it's structured and set up there is a couple other tools that will do the same thing I don't think triple wh actually does it and uh I don't know if hyros does it uh

I think they use like more like a third-party resubmit of OIC inside of the ad Platforms in order for it to like show truth in there which is a different mechanism the reason why I do like

Wicket is it's it's something that I can in one kind of nice snapshot see like what is meta say what does first click say what does last click say what are my enca targets and and have all that kind of in the laid out and simplistic

platform and it's also there's some other things that'll be that'll be coming out that are actually really cool that it's going to be less attribution and more about business health and from

a marketing perspective so how can the business be um uh influenced by traffic that is where it's going to go because I think attribution is cool but attribution to the Layman is a death

sentence to that company it's like no see that rowes is excellent add ad spend here it's like oh man what your attribution model what your look back windows what your sales cycle if you're not good at using this platform it's

gonna blow up so that's what I'm saying is like if you're understanding these metrics they're very well laid out and and it's gonna get better instead of wicked yeah yeah absolutely and and the

cool thing is is that we're working with Wicked alongside Wicked to get them even better and that I mean it's a great management team it's like and we we

actually share some Executives there like I said we're investors in Wicked so we're we are biased for sure but it's the platform that we use for good reason

the reason why you know in all fairness we both invested in northbeam so yes we did I have I have Equity stake in norbe um ABS they what's funny is yeah and

what's funny is they're moving into mmm which I think is a great direction for them to move into um it's not attribution either it's not but for

Enterprise for Enterprise level like the you know the under armors of the world and that kind of thing like it's it's really useless to them yeah it's a good platform yeah but for the folks that are

on this call and the ones that are in our like sort of Middle aler Market it's wicked all the way I would say this if you found this free video today uh useful there's your

answer there you go thanks for coming to our Ted Talk that was there you go our Ted Talk uh we've got a couple more questions you have a few more minutes or no oh yeah I'm good for another 15 all right wow look at that John John around

with time this never happens I know all right love it thanks John Ling just more love for John yeah I know I know I get it you know I I I feel like I'm you know

Vana White here in a lot of ways but that's okay that's sort of a you know A Wheel of Fortune reference uh bridge is coming back from his

first brid just bridge is fine spend on website visitors audience increases man I meant website visitors audience I've kept it observation let me

see back to his this was the original question yep so when you increase Taz so this is what I was saying is um you want to see something crazy this is this

proves this here it is so man like it it it Wicked confirm my what I've been teaching for years um and

it's extremely upsetting to like like be proven right because it's like we've known this all along and I'll I'll share

with you the craziest the craziest thing um when you have a traz or a tcpa on a targeted cost for acquisition Target

return on as Bend Google will go warm period That's why performance Max has a maximized conversion value and maximize conversions and they suggest to

increase and to turn on a TR and tcbaa and then they Auto apply that for you regardless against your will and then don't tell you about it and because now your Raz looks so good because it goes warm and you know how warm this

thing goes it traz will bid on warm traffic so much more often to show an inapp Raz which is rule number one don't look inapp don't trust those metrics it's not

real it's just a snapshot in time of a last step a person took before they became a new customer but John you can turn on new customer acquisition at a performance Max yes every eight people that Google your brand name is a new

customer just didn't start there check this out though when you look at the actual platforms and uh make sure I'm not going to Chick

any uh okay so there's really no no information here that is public but watch this sorry for my cursing but I get really excited about this I'm watching just camera right in a

non-brand standard shopping this is the new visit percentages in a 7day period i I have

here for example these are all on Taz standard shopping 49% cold standard shopping 42% cold standard shopping 50%

cold these are more warm than cold look at this look at the brand uh this is actually a uh here's a brand campaign

47% the brand and the non-brand are the same warms and you're like wait a minute how is inbound standard shopping non-brand 50% % warm T roaz is

not God it is not something that can say I believe that this person searching for the first time will convert at 179% Raz

it doesn't work like that right it's just like what it does says this person's been here before they've searched these similar searchs they've been to the website they've been to competitors it's been six days it's about your sales cycle they're probably

goingon to convert wait bid for Bob then you don't spend all of your ass Bend and then you bid for Bob half War it's not predicting the future it's just bidding on the warmest people which is why when

you increase T roaz is fine you want more roaz I'll just I'll give it to you exactly you want steak I'll bring you some steak I'll bring you some Lobster

[Laughter] too oh man by the way that was another screen share for uh Wicked reports Scott that's gross I never know how to

pronounce his name Scott Wicked is great job desk graier all right what are your thoughts on feed only performance Max this is Jaden thanks for the message

you probably just you probably type that before my rant um so sorry oh all right well I guess yeah so feed only PX I was grabbing water so anyway I guess you

don't like it feed only pmax if you're only running that there's no other sources ever available to you there's no organic there's no meta there's nothing happened you don't have email you don't have influencer yes it is a good way when it can be the only thing

attributing to itself because it can only possibly be the thing very good very very easy it's just when you scale you got to throw on other channels and that that's when it cannibalizes itself because it does 40% more remarketing as

we can see here got it makes sense so oh my God how times have changed with performance Maxs all right last couple questions here then we've got a bolt uh

Matthew Burman easily pronounceable name thank you for that in April and thank you for coming today in April I added shopping campaign to run with my pmax campaigns they work great together for a couple of months with a product with a

full product overlap in mid July the shopping campaign stopped getting clicks yeah uh part two I think and two oh sorry we've got two

it's a two parter till 78 PM when the performance Max campaign start slowing down at spend any ideas yep so run out of warm traffic is that it kind of runs out of like available traffic because of

it's probably is using a different bidding strategy I would imagine different or maybe even ones on manual or not manual clicks but like ones on U maybe like Max clicks and the other ones clicking so Matthew what ends up happening is Google you know in your

standard shopping campaigns you can choose the level of priority you got high medium low performance Max doesn't have that choice for you but it defaults to the highest of the high like it will take priority no matter what so when you

product overlap shopping campaigns in pmax take priority over shopping campaigns non pmax that's why Google actually told the world hey go ahead and compare your pmax versus non pmax campaign and run it as an experiment

well then they rigged the game so that they can only win on pmax like ha See told you um and so it ends up happening is as soon as pmax starts to run out of budget or it starts to slow down because it's using automated targeting with half

warm half cold traffic and says hey I don't think there's enough people that are I know of today that I can convert for your goal that you set so I'm GNA go atropy and then standard shopping comes in says let's get some cold traffic in here and then and then tomorrow the cold

traffic that your standard shopping campaign would bring in pmax is like all right let's start going remarketing and wait for those people to search again I'll pounce on them and I'll predict what the roaz will get and I'll make you

pay double exactly uh Dave yes Bing audiences waste of time it was MSN ad Center that's what

I used to advertise on believe it or not and Overture apparently Dave I he doesn't look all that old uh it looks like a young guy Overture when I yeah I

love don't you love people like put their high school like you know yearbook photo and in their profile oh man uh well that's I think we've pretty much covered most of it uh we've gone way

over here appreciate all the extra goodies here we're going to be doing this every Friday yeah whether you like it or not and uh can't wait to see how some of these you know the relationship

the correlation between creative and traffic works out post seven days for John so it's sort of a continuing episode for next Friday 2:30 Eastern we'll post it on all our socials thank

you so much for showing up for today's tier 11 live John Moran as always see you next time an absolute pre pleasure maybe we'll head down to Florida next

week we'll shoot some guns while we're doing the YouTube live it' be great bring my headphones I'm already I'm already prepared just bring out just bring the laptop out in the range we'll

we'll have a hell of a time all right thanks everybody for tuning in and uh we'll see you next week thanks John thanks everyone

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