Silicon Valley Founder Explains How AI Is Rewriting Freight Ops

If we don't adapt, we will be left behind. If you look at the great

behind. If you look at the great businesses of all times, whether it was like Reed Hastings who famously cannibalized Netflix and said, "I'm going to destroy my entire business and move on to a cloud streaming business."

And now Netflix is like what the largest entertainment company. As we think about

entertainment company. As we think about changing ourselves, hey, what if the AI deployment goes wrong? What if it's risky? And so on. I will just say that

risky? And so on. I will just say that the biggest risk you can do is actually to not embrace it because this is where the world's headed. Barnes & Noble didn't embrace the internet wave and Amazon just took over their whole business overnight. It might feel risky.

business overnight. It might feel risky.

It might feel uncomfortable, but actually that's probably the least risky thing you can do.

>> All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Freight Caviar. We

are here with the one, the only Bob Cruz, founder of >> USA Transportation >> and the trucking company and a brokerage. We're here with Andrew G,

brokerage. We're here with Andrew G, chief revenue officer at Pallet, >> the oldest member at Pallet. and you

were telling us about that and I think that's where we'll pick right off and we're with >> Susan the CEO founder and CEO of Pallet.

>> Let's rock and roll gentlemen. Okay, so

what's it like being the oldest member working at Pallet?

>> Uh it's good. I when I went through the interview process last year basic thought process was there's a ton of smart people here haven't been around the block as many times as I had and but the fact that I had been around a block

a few times would be helpful for them.

So joined in January. Uh that has been true. It's been fun to to build with

true. It's been fun to to build with Susant and the rest of the team and and I do have two kids at home so that makes it a bit harder but uh they're pretty good cuz some of these guys they stay in late night and they're hustling and I

got kids.

>> I'm in early out early most days and then I'll get back online around 7:00 and then usually Susant will call me around 9:00 when I'm getting ready for bed and he's probably on his like second wind of work. [laughter]

>> This is 9:00 p.m.

>> 9:00 p.m. Yeah,

>> that's what we've noticed actually in San Francisco. Everybody just grinds.

San Francisco. Everybody just grinds.

just different. It's both different.

>> Yeah.

>> Like me coming from Charlotte, I feel like everybody just dips out at 5:00 and nobody wants to.

>> But here, you guys are actually like changing the world, you know, like doing stuff that's actually >> it is definitely at a fast pace. You

we've got people on the East Coast, so my day starts really early. I've got

customers. Uh yesterday, my first call is at 6:00 a.m. Pacific with some folks in Singapore and Europe. And it just it just goes all day. But the like we were talking about in the in the prep that the change of pace both at the

technology and in the industry trying to adopt the technology is so rapid that if you don't run at that pace you just can't you know you can't keep up, >> right?

>> It feels like a race out here. It feels

like a little bit of like uh like you guys are about to invent something that's going to change the world and all these companies and you guys are are you guys competing for talents too?

I mean I think that I think that the interesting thing that that is like um with talent what we find is that if you have the the smartest if you have like really smart people so like some of our

engineers like built companies before some of them were like the team at scale you know which recently like Facebook bought for $30 billion like we we have like a lot of the leading talent from meta google scale so if you're a really

good engineer you're like what do I really want I want to work with other smart engineers >> and you just join companies where there's a talent vortex so like the best thing you can do as a founder actually is going to be counterintuitive is like

hire extremely slow at the beginning. A

lot of people love to go like, "Yeah, I grew my team to 30 people." And I'm like, "Who cares if the quality of the people?"

people?" >> You go slow at the beginning. You create

this bench of really dense talent and then eventually you can go fast because everyone's like, I want to work at that company cuz you know >> they have like really good folks like so like you really have to set that early

bar extremely high. Like I think to hire the first three people at Pallet, we took eight months.

>> Oh wow, that's a long time. First three

people at pallet, it took eight months.

>> Eight months. But then the next the next like 10 happened in the span of like 6 months.

>> Oh wow.

>> You're saying move slow to go fast 100%.

That's like my general philosophy on like everything, right? Like people are like, "Yeah, the AI race, let's go extremely fast at the beginning." M

>> but I'm like if you make those platform decisions wrong today >> what we're seeing is that like companies that started like 2 years ago have already or like even 3 years ago have already gotten disrupted like you look

at the AI coding space right like cloud code didn't exist and none of the codec didn't exist but this stuff came and like some of those early winners are no longer early winners like like if you don't get your platform decisions right and if you don't get the foundation of

your product right and you just like push for super fast early growth or something you actually might cost your customers customer in the long run, you should actually like really get your foundations on everything from your

product to your talent to your >> but some of the stuff that's coming out is just new. Like two years ago, you guys didn't have like the cloud or the stuff that you're saying, right? So like

they couldn't even start with that. So

now >> So the way you would architect your product actually if you did some stuff two years ago, you might actually have to scrape it work.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> That's kind of crazy.

>> Back when I was brokering freight full-time, my day didn't end when a load delivered. That's actually when the real

delivered. That's actually when the real mess began. tracking down pods, dealing

mess began. tracking down pods, dealing with rate disputes, and getting hit with random calls from factoring companies.

Total time suck. I wish I had something like EPA manager back then. They built a platform that keeps brokers, carriers, and factories all on the same page. It

actually makes the back office feel organized. If you're still piecing

organized. If you're still piecing together spreadsheets and emails, this will save you hours. If you're tired of wasting time postload, go to epaymanager.com

or text epayfc to 80483.

I love this because in a in a city, in a part of the world where everything's fast, it's overtime. It's hustle. Um,

you're applying something that's rather unpopular to hear.

>> Yeah.

>> And you're sticking to it, which is slow to go fast. And that is something that's not always heard in the western world.

Um do you think that comes a little bit from like eastern roots? Um that I know we talked about a little bit before camera that that philosophy.

>> My grandpa ran a a restaurant business and a food distribution company. He's

been working on that for over half a century. It took 50 years of compounding

century. It took 50 years of compounding to build a durable asset. When we think of like the most iconic companies of this last generation, right? Candidia,

like Pathway, like these companies were like Tesla, these companies were not built overnight. Like Elon did not

built overnight. Like Elon did not create Tesla and SpaceX by just moving super fast in the beginning. If you want to like I think what what has happened in Silicon Valley and a lot of tech is that everyone's just focused on the

growth side, but people ignore the bigger thing is like is this a durable asset, right? Like 10 20 years from now,

asset, right? Like 10 20 years from now, is my company going to exist? And the

for the average technology company, the answer is no. like even for the average tech unicorn. So I think that when you

tech unicorn. So I think that when you when you really really think about that like what you really want to make sure is that what I'm building here is durable for the long run not just for like this year next year and so on.

Susant, what makes a durable asset within a company like this in a space that's always changing, right? Like what

actually makes the durable asset?

Well, >> I think the real thing is like you have to be super intellectually honest with yourself is like like is especially in this AI wave, it's super easy to go like yeah, we built an AI agent, but I think

the question fundamentally comes to does my customer get value from my product or not? And the way to think about this is

not? And the way to think about this is like customers have a wide range of solutions to solve their problems, right? If you're a logistics operator,

right? If you're a logistics operator, you still have traditional methods like OCR, RPA, BPOS, and it's not like you're like coming and you're like, "Oh yeah, AI agents, we should definitely use

that." You're like, "Does this thing

that." You're like, "Does this thing move the needle? Is it faster, cheaper, >> better, >> accurate, and reliable?" Right? Those

are the three things you just hear about.

>> I'm sorry, gentlemen. In fact, just bought in for our audience. OCR, RPA,

BPOS's. Well, I might as well be speaking rocket science. What are we what are we referring to here, Jen?

>> This is the last generation. So, OCR was the last generation of how you used to extract documents. Like, you know, as a

extract documents. Like, you know, as a freight operator, you get a lot of bill of ladings to your email inbox. How do

you extract that? You probably use optical character recognition. It's like

a way of extracting fields off a document. This technology existed for

document. This technology existed for the last few decades, if not longer. RPA

was something UiPath um pioneered uh and it's like this whole way of like scraping data off the internet and different web sources. And then BPOS are outsourcing firms that let you get that

let you hire offshore labor to basically handle some of the tasks in your business like data entry, check calls, invoice auditing, >> which is something that's very loud in our space in the logistics industry

right now. like it's a very popular way

right now. like it's a very popular way and it's something that everybody's very loud and speaking about cuz it's like taking talents out of the US etc. and and all those topics and a lot of companies are doing it to survive in

this tough market and they're doing it like brokerages and trucking companies I believe are doing it much more than they are working with AI solutions like you guys.

>> Yeah.

>> Is that a hot take? Is that completely wrong?

>> I think for now it is. You know, they're doing that because AI hasn't really been around for that long. So that's all they knew was just to outsource stuff and do

that. But now that we have all these

that. But now that we have all these >> the US spend on BO firms and logistics is billions and billions a year.

>> And like we were talking about right before and off camerara the AI companies that are competing for that spend are in their infancy. What did you say the

their infancy. What did you say the market share like 0.01% of what it what it could be.

>> Will that flip over time? Yes. I think

companies like ours will compete for that spin and do better than humans can >> because in essence you're building you're building the humans that could be

doing a lot of the stuff that humans are doing right now. They you could train them a lot faster. So right now you're creating we're creating SOPs for our team. We're training our team. It takes

team. We're training our team. It takes

3 6 9 12 you know years sometimes to train somebody to be really good at conflict resolution at like understanding hearing out the driver like moving slow to go fast and you

could program and design an agent that or you already have that is able to do that and you can measure how often how good he is at booking loads solving

issues and then you could design different agents different styles see which one's performing the and apply that one to situations etc. Is that kind of what you're working on?

>> I think that's the vision. I'd say for now uh just because I don't want to be alarmist like the the idea and part of the pitch to our customers, let's say to a a broker or 3PL. 3PL is a great example. A 3PL's pitch to its customer

example. A 3PL's pitch to its customer is take we'll take the logistics off your plate so you can focus on what's most important to you.

>> Our pitch is very much the same. We'll

take the routine work off of your plate so that you can focus on what differential servicing. Pick up the

differential servicing. Pick up the phone and call your customer. Pick up

the phone and call your carrier and talk to them about what's happening.

>> Don't spend the time typing in the data into a system or building loads or doing routine quoting or routine shipment visibility requests that you you probably get a lot of and probably do to yourself.

>> That that is kind of where it is now.

And that is what the BPL firms are doing for the most part. They are typing in data. They are doing the check calls

data. They are doing the check calls like Susant was mentioning.

>> Absolutely. the kind of repetitive tasks that take skill and but they're also like kind of entry level positions that people learn to then level up into the more advanced higher like thinking things

>> and are required a required part of the service. It's just nobody nobody uh says

service. It's just nobody nobody uh says I went with Bob's trucking because of their >> ability to enter orders like that's not a thing that differentiates your service your on time delivery is.

>> Yeah 100%.

>> It seems like you're thinking Susant on this topic. I think that my my view on

this topic. I think that my my view on what what what a lot of makes makes a successful agent, right? like it's an AI worker. Like what a lot of people what

worker. Like what a lot of people what you have to get right in logistics and this is something that a lot of agent companies don't really think about is that you have these SOPs that are pretty convoluted like where for every customer

like let's say you're doing something like data entry you might go like for Walmart you have to assume that the delivery

location is based here in Bentonville and here's the assumption we'll always have or you have might have a rule internally like if it's less than 20 pallets make get an LTL load. But in

some other cases, like if it's less than 25 ballots, then only is an LTL load.

>> And you have to basically encode like a thousand rules like this, right?

>> Otherwise, the agent doesn't really do the job that your data entry person does where they know all the nuances of your operation.

>> So the question then becomes, how do we capture all that? How do we like go when you get an email from your customer for like a quote request or a order? It

might not even have all the fields that are required to enter it into your TMS. This last mile work to get your SOP encoded to get the data transformed into

your APIs to make all of that happen is really the beauty of where these AI agents come in. And if you don't do that really well, then you might as well not even have >> you might as well not even not going to

get the value because it's glitching on something super simple. It's like, dude, this is frustrating and annoying. But

like what's like an example of something like that where it could be just missing that like I have a I have a team of track and tracers and carrier sales reps. So we're crushing it. We do great

reps. So we're crushing it. We do great work. Um, and you have the AI agent who

work. Um, and you have the AI agent who can do everything on their level in theory really well, but you're missing that one field. Like, do you have an example of what a field like that might

be? Is it tone of voice? Is it being

be? Is it tone of voice? Is it being able to say something, right? Is it like make it more real for us?

>> So, I'll give you an example. One of our customers is an interotal carrier.

>> Okay.

>> Um, and what they do is they'll send us over an order information. the order

information sometimes like the object doesn't have all the charges laid out right like properly inside of the system. Now, if I go and I put this

system. Now, if I go and I put this inside of their TMS without the charges and like my agent does the work as intended, it's useless because like you can't bill for that order. And then your team has to go back, look at the email,

go reach out to the customer, put the charges in, and they're like, "Why did we buy this agent? Now I have to go back and do all this work over and over again that it's not really saving me time, >> right?

>> Like, like >> you're just adding more time. you're

just adding more time because you have to like now go relook at the work the agent did go and reach back out and then you were like okay like I'm paying for this thing I'm paying for my humans it didn't really move the needle

>> so this is why >> getting that last mile portion of everything from getting all the feels that are not explicitly stated on the email body

>> capturing all of your SOP logic actually really really really matters >> today's episode is also brought to you by Genlogs Gen Logs is a nationwide sensor network that has collected nearly 2 billion real-time images on trucks.

You might say it's crazy. Your

competitor says it's game changer. See

why all the top brokerages now use Gen Logs to acquire new customers, source better carriers, and conduct deeper compliance. Book a demo today. It's like

compliance. Book a demo today. It's like

slinging freight on god mode. How far

away from that, like percentage-wise, if you've had to feel like to to get those fi final final little details in, is that something that you think is like

months away, years away?

>> I think we're already there.

>> Yeah, >> I think this little details are there there today.

>> We're already there. And this is part of why I said >> so forget about your outsourcing. You

know, >> should I change business models? You

know, I'm actually the more time I spend here, the more time I'm like, oo, I got to reconsider my the future of my business and I got to talk to my team.

What can we be doing now differently, you know, to stay relevant in a year and two years and three years? And I hope you guys can help me solve that question too.

>> Could use pallet, you know, and get >> use pallet, but I need to learn more.

>> Yeah. I kind of wanted to go back a little bit if you can just kind of tell about your story, how you got started, you know, how you actually came up with the name and what made you do it, why why did you want to start this start

this thing?

>> So So my general philosophy in life has always been two things. Solve go pick the hardest thing to go work on or the most uncomfortable life experience and

go where other people do not look.

>> So there was like I'll give you three examples of my life related to this.

First example was when I was in sixth grade, I told my parents, I'm going to send myself to boarding school to be close to my grandparents.

>> Wow.

>> Um, so I went to and this was boarding school in India. I was in the Bay Area.

My parents thought I was crazy. I was

like, I'm going to do it. I'm just going to go to boarding school in India.

>> Wow.

>> Um, and that experience I went to this military boarding school. I built a lot of grit. I got closer to my grandparents

of grit. I got closer to my grandparents and then they actually ran a distribution business. So it actually

distribution business. So it actually kind of exposed me to that role and actually kind of ended up in a weird way being the root of what eventually led me to kind of come to Pallet. So like that time spent there led me away from

Silicon Valley so I could see other problems built this intensity from being in boarding school and there was like a lot of discipline there where you had to fold your clothes a specific way. You

had to get up at 5:00 a.m. go on a run.

Every single day of your schedule was packed up till 9:30 p.m. It was intense.

You shared a room with 11 other guys. It

was >> it was >> And you just decided to do this like you were kind of like >> cuz I kind of like was like it's painful but if you want to grow you kind of need to go through some of those experiences.

>> You started so early building these really good habits that I'm guessing you still implement today.

>> Totally.

>> And the one thing I learned in like the last 3 years of my life is that the more we train kind of like AI the more we train and code our habits the deeper they get programmed into our mind where

eventually they they don't really take willpower anymore. just get up and do it

willpower anymore. just get up and do it and you don't even think about it. Yeah.

And so like if you could program a lot of those really good positive habits into your days like effectively like I wake up, I I like stretch, I do yoga, I fold my bed, boom, I drink water, I read

a little bit of a book and like you just grind in these amazing habits and you could do it very quickly and efficiently within like the first two hours of your day. Then like boom, you're you're like

day. Then like boom, you're you're like a machine that's winning and welloiled and a really great agent.

>> And like you started doing that in sixth grade.

>> Yeah.

>> Like wow, that's a head start if you have really good habits at that age. And

then you were also living with your grandparents who >> have to have amazing habits because they're running a distribution facility and a business. And I'm I mean I bet the

lessons and the wisdom you gained from that and the observations.

>> Yeah, I agree. that that lesson of seeing how a business is built, seeing that to build durable businesses, it's a matter of grit, patience, and also just seeing how inefficient things were in the distribution world were like pretty fruitful lessons

>> and this was in India, right?

>> This was in India.

>> Okay.

>> But then that experience then kickstarted this reaction of I'm never going to follow what everyone else does.

>> I'm always going to be the person that looks at unconventional makes unconventional decisions and I'm always going to go for the toughest thing. So,

as you know, I was studying AI and computer science in Colombia, but all of my peers were like, "Let's go work at Facebook and Google, but there was a company that was again building internal tools and efficiency." They sold

software to developers. And I was like, "I'm going to go join the sales team."

And uh like how many engineers really go do that? And the idea was like I had

do that? And the idea was like I had this whole in uh this whole idea that like if you want to be good in the business world, you actually need to know how to sell stuff and you need to know how to like make sure you can

understand how to figure out what the customer really cares about.

>> Yeah.

>> So all of a sudden I had this technical background and then I got to work with some of the largest logistics providers like supply chain providers like Annheiser, Bushian, Shipop, Flexport and really partner with them on workflow

automation. So as a saleserson I got

automation. So as a saleserson I got firsthand viewpoint into how does the logistics world work? How do I talk to customer value and that's where again I saw a ton of inefficiencies and all these areas like customs filing,

shipment visibility and so on. And that

kind of continued to build my conviction that I probably want to start a business here. And then at one point I was like

here. And then at one point I was like every all of my friends want to start like an infrastructure company, a crypto company, a SAS application for other people in Silicon Valley, but I was like I want to build for someone that Silicon Valley does not

>> know about >> know about. And I remember going to the Stockton and near the port of Oakland, visiting all these carriers and seeing how they were doing bill of lighting processing and how they were doing spot

market quoting. And I remember going

market quoting. And I remember going yeah, the moment where I felt like I had to do this was I went to one of our customers office on a Sunday and he had like the owner was there. He had 100

pieces of paper, like 100 B stocked up, was typing in data manually and he was complaining to me. He's like, "Man, I can't watch the 49ers play in the playoffs and doing this." And I was like, well, you shouldn't be doing this

cuz you're spending a lot of money on your software. So, like, I'm here to

your software. So, like, I'm here to come and solve that problem. And that's

what was like I was like, I've seen this throughout my life. I just have to go do this. And um that's how it sparked and

this. And um that's how it sparked and started.

>> So, how do you like I guess for the hiring process, how does that work? You

need to it takes some time to find good talent, right? To do that because not

talent, right? To do that because not everybody kind of wants to go and you know, spend that much time with their customer.

I mean I think I come to them and I'm like what you want you do you want to build a hundred billion dollar company?

You want to build a company that's really going to define this industry or do you want to get the silver nettle?

Right? Like if you want to win you just need to have a high bar. You have to understand your customers. We have to ship high quality products. It's going

to be a really reward journey rewarding journey.

>> But like you kind of have you don't want a hiring process that everyone likes.

>> You actually want a hiring process that's a bit polarizing where some people love it and some people don't like it.

>> Okay? because your your company has a unique culture and that culture not everyone is going to love it. Like at

Pallet we like I call a lot of people at 8 p.m. and we make instant decisions.

8 p.m. and we make instant decisions.

Like that's not for everyone. But like

if you want to win and you want to make something of value to our customers, that's what it kind of takes.

>> Yeah. And that's what I've noticed like in San Francisco, that's what I kind of love because like all the people that we visited, everyone's doing something that's kind of changing the world almost in a way or like they're changing

they're pushing the bar to a different.

>> Yeah. Cuz like for me as a carrier and a trucking company like we have 25 trucks and it's kind kind of just like repetitive stuff over and over. So it's

not really like you're not really changing anything. You're just moving

changing anything. You're just moving shipments. I mean, yeah, we're doing

shipments. I mean, yeah, we're doing great work cuz obviously we wouldn't have this if if we weren't moving the stuff, but it's not like >> I feel like if I were to work here, like if I was to move you, you would have to kind of grind cuz you're like, this is

this is dope. I want to I want to get this done, you know?

>> Especially when everyone around you is Yeah. hustling and grinding and you feel

Yeah. hustling and grinding and you feel that energy that like, well, we're about to be on breakthrough and there's others here that are trying to crack the code, too. And it's like

too. And it's like >> that energy is is incredible. But I will say that our customers though like the freight operators and folks like you, you there's a lesson. I always think there's a lesson you can learn from everyone.

>> You all are incredibly good at operations like like here we have this venture capital industry. We can be slightly inefficient when you're running a laser thin margin business.

>> Typically bootstrapped.

>> Yeah.

>> Typically has very tight like your customers have expectations that the delivery needs to be on time. You have

this tight window that's operationally really hard.

>> I appreciate that, man. Cuz I work really hard to get to get >> I think everyone here that's running a trucking company, a brokerage really. I

run operations in our business and it's tough. Like you have to be on top of

tough. Like you have to be on top of your stuff. And yeah, we don't have like

your stuff. And yeah, we don't have like it's all you're bootstrapped from the ground up and you have to make it. If

you don't make it, that's it. You're

closing the doors pretty much.

>> Slim slim like room for error.

>> That's why we we hire operations people not from Silicon Valley. M

>> but from the logistics sector because you guys are actually much better than we are here at it like >> like it's kind of like I think this is what Silicon Valley if you only hire talent from Silicon Valley >> you're going to lose this whole customer

empathy piece the best teams are actually very interdisciplinary like you want to bring in the ops folks that understand the industry that know how freight works that um get the internal

operations because they'll actually help you build a better product resonate with the customers help make sure the deployments go smoothly they'll actually understand a bit of the SOPs already.

Like this is important that I think like I fundamentally believe that too much Silicon Valley talent in a company like ours is actually a bad thing.

>> This is I I feel like if we dig here a little bit more, there's like gold here for people that like really truly understand. Like I have customers right

understand. Like I have customers right now that I could talk to yesterday and or talk to tomorrow and >> they're like yes, sign me up Susant

Andrew like let's go. Are you guys do you still have room for my small to mediumsized brokerages and trucking companies? Like are you able to help us

companies? Like are you able to help us still?

>> Yes. Uh the the the answer is yes.

>> But if you all of a sudden float a thousand customers to us, there's going to be it's going to take us some time to get through them.

>> Yeah, you're growing fast. How many

people are you hiring like right now?

Well, we we are growing quite a bit and post a lot of the series B that we raise is both for engineering like Son talked about and the post sales work that we do actually sales actually will be a very small part I think of our company going uh going forward

>> but but I I think the tricky the tricky thing with implementation if we rewind 20 minutes into our uh conversation and Susant was saying that the the ability to ingest SOPs is here today that's true

>> but uh the probably the hardest part about implementation is I think a lot of customers don't have a full grasp They don't understand. They don't get it. So

don't understand. They don't get it. So

they they don't know that for Walmart it's like because it's only sitting in Sushon's head. I didn't get it. Bob

Sushon's head. I didn't get it. Bob

didn't get it just until now.

>> So that part of the process takes a bit of the uh a bit of time and kind of >> human work.

>> A lot of people are about to start to get this. You know what I mean?

get this. You know what I mean?

>> Um where do they reach out? Like if

they're interested like do you guys want these phone calls? Do you want this like interest coming your way?

>> Yes. Yes. They can go to pallet.com and request a demo or reach out to andrew pallet.com.

pallet.com.

>> Okay. or sushanthepal.com me >> and uh we'll be happy to jump on a call with them anytime.

>> Can they get a discount or something if they mention Bob? [laughter]

>> Bob Bob's banging in is the code.

>> What is your pricing though? Like I'm

curious. Is that something that's adapting day by day? Cuz you guys are a growing business. Like you when did you

growing business. Like you when did you start the business?

>> Uh the business has been around for four years.

>> I'm a I'm guessing the the pricing structure is changing every 3 months, every six months. Like you guys are constantly growing, adapting, shifting.

No, >> I'd say in the last 6 months it's been pretty static. Like the philosophy the

pretty static. Like the philosophy the philosophy is this we are uh pricing our solution to only charge when our customers realize benefits. So if you take the demo we just did the

digitization use case we only want to charge our customers when we successfully digitize a document and we do it as it happens. So a usage based model. So if you if you're if you've got

model. So if you if you're if you've got a million dollars worth of stuff you need to digitize unlike SAS where you're writing a check on day one for that. You

are paying for that as you go. And if it cost you to use your go back to your 17 person example, let's say it cost you $10 a document or $5 a document to do that. Our cost to do that is going to be

that. Our cost to do that is going to be substantially less. So if you kind of

substantially less. So if you kind of think about it on a per transaction basis every time you use it, it should it should drive immediate ROI for you.

>> This is wild. People don't get it and you're doing it. This is the only place in the world that this is happening in San Francisco and your clients right now are some of the biggest companies in the world and confidential the names but the

biggest companies in the world are like investing heavily in working with these guys doing this and the people that do adopt the the companies that do adopt I think they're the ones that are going to succeed the most to be honest because

first of all it avoids a lot of you know mistakes and stuff because humans I think are prone to make more mistakes than AI or you know techn technology pretty much. Uh yes, but I I do think as

pretty much. Uh yes, but I I do think as an important point to click on a bit because AI does hallucinate and so when you're thinking about picking a partner, you like that is an important topic to

really pick at with them like how do they control for that possibility uh uh and so that the solution doesn't go ary when you are doing data entry or you're doing email communication back

and forth of >> because you don't uh you don't want let's say if you were using an agent an agent to communicate with one of your customers in a way that tarnishes your brand. That is

brand. That is >> Yeah, that's true.

>> That's a problem.

>> So, what do you mean by hallucination?

Like, how does that work?

>> So, mushrooms [laughter] >> from San Francisco.

>> Uh the um so, so I like everyone has a personal experience with Chad GPT. I use

Ched GP personally in my life quite a bit and every once in a while it'll say something that at best sounds off occasionally sounds wildly off that you just wouldn't want in a professional sense that your humans would would never

do because you know to be professional in the way that they uh handled themselves and so how how you control for that I I suspect every company's different even within our own company

how we control for that differs for how we're using the AI if I use this one as an example what's really happening behind the scenes and uh is that we're effectively asking seven different

models what the answer is and then have a consensus layer built on top of that to say how much consensus is there among the models and that both minimizes the chance of but more importantly

>> gives us a framework to figure out how accurate we are and so if all seven models are saying the same thing it's you know just like if we were at a trivia game we're all saying the same answer we're likely to be right

>> but if only Andrew is saying the right answer then it's likely to be wrong and in that case you got, you know, the agent's stuck and we need to get a human involved.

>> But that's so cool though. It's

>> I love my job. Like it's so cool to work in this industry. Like um

>> yes, the people who are slow movers potentially could be left behind, but that's probably true of many technology everywhere. I I would say

everywhere. I I would say the logistics industry realizes that they spend a lot of money and time on things that are not differentiated part of their services. You go to any trade show, >> right?

>> It's AI is a hot topic and like that is a is a part of the talk track from operators themselves.

>> Yeah. And I feel like logistics just in general has been behind like lagging behind. Like we still get phone calls

behind. Like we still get phone calls like, "Hey, can you fax this thing for me?" And it's like, "Bro,

me?" And it's like, "Bro, >> can we talk about fears?"

>> Yeah. Like technology, AI, like we've got people that are like a little bit worried, etc. Like what's the future?

Like how like you guys are on the front lines. You guys are building the future

lines. You guys are building the future of the world in a lot of ways. You guys

are building armies of talent of like >> just like it's incredible. Like

eventually you guys are going to probably be putting this technology into mechanical suits and you're going to be able to have butlers and soldiers and everything. You know what I mean? Like I

everything. You know what I mean? Like I

don't think that's crazy to think that that's maybe like 5 10 15 years away.

>> Yeah.

>> Maybe like >> you guys are going to have a big influence into the you can have a big influence into the shape of the future in the world.

>> Yeah. And so like where do you hope to push our world for the sake of our kids and and our grandkids and like what what what like if you can where are you

working towards personally like what's your vision for the future? So like I I think that first of all I think everyone's going to be fine. We've gone

through a lot of these innovation cycles. If you look at history the

cycles. If you look at history the printing press >> fire printing press cars the internet.

Has the unemployment rate changed? No.

>> Only made us better.

>> That's a hot take. That's a hot take, gentlemen. It it it hasn't. It hasn't.

gentlemen. It it it hasn't. It hasn't.

Right.

>> And [snorts] >> I agree.

>> What I find is that humans when gi when given force to the cause just readapt like we learn how to work better, learn how to work differently. Everyone's like

AI means small teams. I'm like no. Like

everyone here is so much more productive that I like everyone's like AI is going to replace your engineering team. I'm

like I'm hiring more engineers than ever because everyone's so productive >> that each salesperson each engineer is just doing more. And I fundamentally think that unemployment's not going to change. Job, the nature of jobs will

change. Job, the nature of jobs will change right?

>> Um, and I think what I view our role as is like >> you're running a business. You have a lot to do on the operations. What you

don't want to do is go figure out like how do I get AI to be applied in the right way? How do I educate myself? I

right way? How do I educate myself? I

don't like we want to be your translation layer between >> what all these foundation models here in this is happening in the world of AI taking the best of Silicon Valley and injecting it into your business so you

can just >> sit back. I would love to make a clone of myself, you know, like if if an AI can do what I can do, like kind of if I could train it up and even improve it

because I know what my flaws and I feel like AI wouldn't really have flaws. Like

you could just kind of >> if I could bring if I could bring your clone and you called it Bob Bangs, I would want him in our operation for sure. [laughter]

sure. [laughter] >> So like I that's how I view it. I feel

like I mean for some people I guess it depends on the person, right? Like if

you're if you believe in it, if you think you could train it and like go that route, then it will happen. But the

people that are kind of just not going to adapt in it, they're not really going to. So you got to Yeah. You got to go

to. So you got to Yeah. You got to go with it.

>> But I don't I can never fully replicate what you can do. I think it'll like the part about the human relationships.

>> Yeah.

>> The in-person touch like when you go out and you're selling a client or when you're going out and really showing empathy to your drivers.

>> Yeah.

>> Like that human touch piece is just not going anywhere. like like like there's a

going anywhere. like like like there's a human touch element, but what it can do is it can free up your time from doing it can maybe even do a better job of you of all the admin stuff that's going

around your day, right? You get into your office. You're responding to all

your office. You're responding to all these emails from your customers. You're

like looking at all these quote requests. You're like handling all these

requests. You're like handling all these billing issues. You're calling your

billing issues. You're calling your drivers and checking on them for being late. Imagine a world where you just

late. Imagine a world where you just didn't have to do any of that stuff and someone's doing it for you, much better than you. It's almost like your like 247

than you. It's almost like your like 247 chief of staff that's super low cost.

It's getting all the stuff done for you and you're like, "Man, my job now is really cool. I just get to go work with

really cool. I just get to go work with enterprise clients. I get to um think

enterprise clients. I get to um think about what's my next act for my business. I get to just have a lot more

business. I get to just have a lot more time to be creative and work with people." And I think that makes all

people." And I think that makes all these jobs so much more fulfilling. I

actually think like imagine if like you took away all the mundane operations away from the logistics world. Like then

hiring people into logistics would just be so much fun. Like everyone would be like it would be easier for you to go and recruit people cuz you're like your job here is just really helping shape how we're moving stuff around the world.

>> I also think that um I think that I think that the first thing is like you we're we're get we can certainly do a lot of these things today. like most

companies are just touching the surface of what they can do.

>> Um, and I think like in the next I suspect in the next year we will see some of these freight companies the early innings of it just fully having an AI workflow on every single aspect of

their operation. I think it's it's

their operation. I think it's it's coming. I think it's just a matter of

coming. I think it's just a matter of people getting more comfortable.

>> Today's episode is also brought to you by ControlChain. Strugglingly defined

by ControlChain. Strugglingly defined loads. Control Chain offers a

loads. Control Chain offers a cost-effective solution for carriers to secure more freight contracts with reliable shippers. Plus, you get a free

reliable shippers. Plus, you get a free tool that automates tasks like managing order details, updating customers, and sending PODs. Say goodbye to

sending PODs. Say goodbye to spreadsheets, emails, and phone calls.

With ControlChain, you can manage everything on one platform from planning and execution to getting paid. Sign up

at controlchain.com and start receiving loads today.

>> Yeah. And I think the people that do adopt to it are going to be the ones that are going to be like ahead.

>> So, what are the skills? What are the strengths that like somebody like that should have? Like where should be they

should have? Like where should be they learning? What should they be studying?

learning? What should they be studying?

If you're like somebody like Bob, like should he be watching memes during his free time or should he be reading books during his free time? Should be uh hopping on like blogs, learning about

FTEs? Should he be like,

FTEs? Should he be like, you know, >> like what should he be doing with the extra time he has?

>> Yeah. To study more up to start his AI journey, you're saying?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Is it to start his AI journey to create exactly what you just described >> work with pallet?

>> You just start calling pallet and doing daily daily meetings.

>> I I you can do that. I I I'd say um another way to think about it is don't you know >> what problems are in your business that fit into the description that Susan just talked about so that you have a sense of

your real business problems like if you have if you come to me and say hey I want to do AI right >> not that I can't work with you on that and we can >> what's the daily task that tell me tell me what's important to you that is

taking up a lot of your team's work that's not a differentiate part of your service great that's a real problem that if I solve that for you it's going to help you be a force multiplier for your for your business. Like then we've got

something to to build around.

>> Yeah, makes sense.

>> Yeah. Documenting. I think the main thing that I think will help you for this transformation is document the work that you're doing. Like give give have your SOPs ready. Like much like you have to have this for new employees you want

to hire, have it ready for our agent. So

have your SOPs ready. Make sure we can plug into your internal systems and have your APIs ready. And then after that, it's like if you get those two steps right, implementing AI is as easy as like sipping a pin colada on it.

>> So that's where I think it's going to be super hard because I feel like all these smaller trucking companies or smaller brokerage, they don't have that. They

don't have all these like >> Yeah.

>> TMS's and software and all these, you know, operations, how they run it. They

just kind of do it and everything's in a like spreadsheets pretty much.

>> Yeah. If people had all of this laid out in mind, they had a point of view already on like here's what I want to outsource. Here's what I want to do.

outsource. Here's what I want to do.

It's much like if you're looking to hire someone and you're like, I need to go hire this role. You have a list of tasks in mind and what you want to give them.

>> Yeah. Because right now people are like vague. I don't know. I I I bought I

vague. I don't know. I I I bought I bought groceries. You [laughter] know,

bought groceries. You [laughter] know, >> it's the exact same thing. It's like if you have specific tasks in mind, >> get specific. Generalities kill clarity, right? get specific with how you spend

right? get specific with how you spend your focus, how you spend your time, how you spend your >> Yeah.

>> life.

>> And once you do that, the AI implementations become way easier because you have a point of view.

>> You're like, here's what I'm looking to solve.

>> Here's how I solve it today.

>> Here's what's tough and here's the ROI of doing this.

>> Y >> and you will also naturally prioritize the right things because like you don't want to go solve something that like doesn't really matter to your business that much >> or you you like you don't like doing it.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Have you guys noticed like worldwide around the country around the world a little as AI starts to emerge more and more that people are starting

to bounce back a little bit towards nature health animals plants, history? Have you guys been

plants, history? Have you guys been catching that trend? You're so so much in this world. I've been noticing something like that. Have any of you guys?

>> No. We're too busy working. [laughter]

We're too busy changing the world.

>> I got you. But you're for real.

>> I mean, I I can kind of Well, my opinion, I could see that, but like I'm too busy running my business, you know, trying to >> Well, like things like Robert F. Kennedy

talking about this kind of stuff. Uh

Paul Saladino, Dr. Paul Saladino, like uh I think even in San Francisco, they're building like a health and wellness. I think Tony Robbins is or

wellness. I think Tony Robbins is or somebody is building like a massive complex here with saunas and health things. it's going to be like $35,000 a

things. it's going to be like $35,000 a year for a membership, something like that. Have you been hearing anything

that. Have you been hearing anything about that or seeing this trend at all?

I >> I think what probably I would say is that um what I've generally observed is that >> the thing that's not I think that's true is that I feel like people are spending more time on the internet than ever.

>> So I think people because of AI everyone's like always interacting with chat GBT Gemini. Um I feel like that has actually pushed people to rely more and more on tech. But the thing that is true equally, it's kind of paradoxical, is

that the wellness culture around the world has just generally like gotten stronger. Like I feel like everyone's

stronger. Like I feel like everyone's eating healthier.

>> Younger generations are drinking less alcohol.

>> Um >> they're paying attention to what's in the >> they're paying attention to healthier ingredients. Like for example, like

ingredients. Like for example, like >> at Pallet like like no one has ever I've never seen anyone order like fast food like McDonald's or Chick-fil-A or anything like that.

>> Wow.

>> Inside our office.

>> People prefer really clean eating.

>> Mhm. So that you >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So yeah. So you are noticing a little bit >> I'm noticing >> a big health trend.

>> Ability health trend.

>> Yeah. You're noticing the sauna trend.

>> Yeah. No.

>> A cold plunge trend.

>> Cold plunge trend.

>> Yes. A lot of ancient history and health and things like that. And it's it's interesting to see as we go so far into the cold cold robotic AI world and

sci-fi, we're also getting pulled so far back into history and our roots and like the trees. And I think this like talking

the trees. And I think this like talking about people's fears like I think that's a little bit of people's fears like when you get one extreme you go to the other

extreme in some ways. And I wanted like Yogi Barra says I think it was a baseball player, if you don't know where you're going,

you'll end up someplace else. And I kind of wanted to bounce back into like after after you guys crush these agents, etc. Like what's the world look like? What

kind of world do you want to see? Have

you thought about that?

>> I I mean, I think Sushan articulated pretty well earlier. Maybe I'll do a short term version of that of that answer. the the most of the work that we

answer. the the most of the work that we are doing for folks is the is the is the routine work like you're you're a person who's doing your data entry doesn't love that part of their job I'm sure but they probably like calling calling another

shipper to get another customer or calling one of your drivers to see where they're at and like the human part of it >> that's still like if we're playing chess that's like move two three

>> I'm thinking like end game like 10 15 25 years from now >> what are we living in what's this world look like cuz People here are scared of AI. We went talk to people around like

AI. We went talk to people around like truck drive around Oakland yesterday. We

went to a truck stop and um Bob just asked her, "What do you think about AI?"

She's like, "Oh, it's scary." Like

people are scared. You know, they don't know where it's going. And and like I think sometimes we like start doing things and we haven't really thought through what it leads to. You know what

I mean? And that's the fear I'm kind of

I mean? And that's the fear I'm kind of seeing like can we do this to create a better world for humans or is it going to be a scarier world for humans and like maybe talk on that and maybe I even have a seed of an idea that I wanted to

plant for like where I hope we could >> try to push our focus and >> for me I hope and I shared this on yesterday's happy robot podcast like if

we could combine both of these crazy the these worlds the nature world the people that are being pulled towards the nature the history animals and empathy and emotion and then combine it with the AI

agents, butlers and all these things. If

we could somehow combine these two things and use like really smart minds and technology to maybe turn San Francisco into like a fairy tale world where we're like using somehow

technology to make massive instead of skyscrap skyscrapers like massive trees that we're living inside of that like animals can still thrive and it's healthier for us and there's more oxygen in the air. I heard somewhere that

dinosaurs used to be able to walk the earth because there were massive trees that allowed for a lot of oxygen. So

like they could actually function and and and walk this earth with us. And I'm

like wondering like oh once we figure out these little medial tasks, these little like trivial things, then we could be working on like big cool things for like where we want our planet to actually look like outside of going to

Mars. Like maybe we could still save

Mars. Like maybe we could still save this planet. Yeah. You know,

this planet. Yeah. You know,

>> I think I think what I find interesting is almost all progress in the last 50 years has been in the progress in the world of computer science.

>> But when it comes to mechanical engineering, biomedical engineering, electrical engineering, the progress has been pretty limited. Like the way we design buildings has not changed. The

way we designed airplanes, like the time between JFK to SFO has never gone down.

>> Mhm.

>> And I actually think that we're like so fixated on is like are there going to be no problems left as if we hit AGI? And

I'm like, we've only seen progress in a very narrow narrow sliver of technology.

>> Mhm.

>> So like I think there's still so many problems yet to be solved.

>> There's a book I think zero to one. I

think Theo wrote it or something like that. I was listening to it. Yeah. And

that. I was listening to it. Yeah. And

he kind of talks about that where everyone like the only crazy changes we've made is like kind of in tech, but there's so many different ways that we can go into and change the world.

>> Especially if tech pushes it forward and we can expedite it in all these other fields too. There's there's very limited

fields too. There's there's very limited progress on like almost all these Heather fails like life like the average life expectancy like why can we double it like why can we not like push for >> God doesn't let us

>> you know that's my personal opinion >> Paul Paul took a hot take we were flying over here to um from Poland and we were talking about AI and how like we've been

using AI to help us think through things and and make decisions and we're like whoa like AI kind of sees everything we do. We've got cameras everywhere. Like

do. We've got cameras everywhere. Like

it hears everything. You can whisper and like >> it'll say exactly what you say. Like

it's all seeing. It's all knowing. It

helps you think through things. Like

there's a quote that we me and Paul like to toss back and forth. Like would you consider yourself a man if you let somebody else do your thinking for you?

And like in some ways where I'm starting to notice a lot of people are using AI to think for themselves in some ways, you know? Whoa. Is AI God in some ways?

you know? Whoa. Is AI God in some ways?

Um, that's a hot take and and something that yeah is worth thinking about cuz like we're sometimes like maybe rushing rolling but like if you don't know where you're going, you'll end up someplace

else. And so like I would really like to

else. And so like I would really like to know where the [ __ ] we're going with all this, you know?

>> Mhm. Like let's paint a beautiful picture for the future.

>> Yeah.

>> And push towards that instead of like evacuate machines. Robots are like

evacuate machines. Robots are like hoarding us into prisons. there's

internment caps, you know, like like there's two ways it could go. But in

your in your example for today, and I know you I know you're going to use your if you use your chess analogy, we're going to have to fast forward 20 moves into the future, but what would you say about how AI is helping you? Cuz I just use your story. You just said it's not

it's not like taking over your work.

It's just making the product that you put out better.

>> Yeah. Today, yes.

>> And so maybe in the future it gets a little bit a little bit scary. I think

change is going to be scary. I like

think even like politically like we're very much in the tech and business space you know but like my dream and like my aspirations I love doing sitting down with amazing interesting people like you guys you know I would love to like one

day be going out to beautiful like nature groves in the mountains of Georgia where we got like great tech and we got great relax and great nature and like we've solved the problem of communication between languages and

stuff and we could invite the greatest brightest minds from the eastern world the greatest brightest minds from the western world we could sit down for a week and just sauna, think, relax, eat good, and be like

>> get there. We got to solve this stuff first.

>> Yeah. But like the great great chess players, Bob, they don't only stay on two, three moves ahead. You know what I mean? The they're they're they're 10, 12

mean? The they're they're they're 10, 12 moves ahead.

>> What are you doing to get there? I'm

sitting down with you guys here today and planting the seed in your thought in [snorts] your mind so that like hey like politicians like if we could be sitting down with politicians like we got to be thinking about this where we're going

right now so that we don't just blindly like end up in a bad situation where like some crazy guy is like okay let's implement this and take over the world.

You know what I mean?

>> Um I think like for like from my side >> cuz you're about to take over the the freight market. No, how I should it will

freight market. No, how I should it will depend on the people and the people that you know are a little bit smarter and open, they will, you know, accept AI and

it will help them. But obviously the people that want to kind of use AI to ruin the world, they'll try it in their power to to ruin the world. So

>> I mean, yeah, >> hopefully the better version >> history. Yeah. I mean, yeah, hopefully

>> history. Yeah. I mean, yeah, hopefully the book, >> but with every with every sort of innovation we've had, the internet, you can also use it for malicious reasons.

You can also use it for your benefit.

>> White haters, black haters. Yeah. Like

we we've kind of seen every technology wave has like really like people were scared and they were like, well, how is this going to affect us? And you kind of see that like for the most part, I tend to believe they're pretty big optimists

that like most people fundamentally are net good.

>> Yeah. And like the number of bad actors is always far smaller than the number of good actors. And I think strictly the

good actors. And I think strictly the progress with AI will make all of this more productive. I think the one thing I

more productive. I think the one thing I will say though that this kind of ties to it is like if we don't adapt, we will be left behind as in like if we don't embrace the technology, we're not curious. We don't want to reinvent

curious. We don't want to reinvent ourselves. That's what ultimately like

ourselves. That's what ultimately like makes you prone to like >> and that's the the oldest law of this world like the law of evolution in nature, right? if you don't adapt.

nature, right? if you don't adapt.

>> Yeah.

>> So sometime I think I think this is also something I'll leave like as a lot of the freight operators with sometimes the biggest risk you can take especially when you consider all this like do I implement AR or not is not taking any

risk. If you look at the great

risk. If you look at the great businesses of all times whether it was like Reed Hastings who famously cannibalized Netflix and said I'm going to like destroy my entire business and move on to a cloud streaming business

and now Netflix is like what the largest entertainment company like I think it's like a $600 billion company. he made

that really bold bet to kind of go and do that. And I think like as we think

do that. And I think like as we think about changing ourselves like it's like hey what if the AI deployment goes wrong what if it's risky and so on. I will

just say that like the biggest risk you can do is actually to not embrace it because this is where the world's headed. Everyone in any wave of

headed. Everyone in any wave of technology you kind of ignored it. Um

famous example is Barnes & Noble like didn't embrace the internet wave and Amazon just took over their whole business overnight.

>> But if you embrace it like you're saying you're you're going to be like at a really really good point and it might feel risky. It might feel uncomfortable,

feel risky. It might feel uncomfortable, but actually that's probably the least risky thing you can do, >> right?

>> Yeah.

>> Besides not doing Yeah. Like more risky is just to sit and not do anything.

>> What do you guys think about self-driving trucks? How soon do you

self-driving trucks? How soon do you guys see that? How soon do you see AI?

Cuz yesterday it was my first time driving in Whimo. I will say it was crazy. Like I was first scared. As soon

crazy. Like I was first scared. As soon

as I got in and it started driving, I was like this is this is >> very quickly.

>> Yeah. It was like I got comfortable with that. I was like, "This is legit. I

that. I was like, "This is legit. I

would rather drive with way more honestly than an Uber, you know."

>> So, um, where do you guys see that?

Like, how how do you see that going into like transportation and trucking? Like,

how how soon do you think another Whimo and trucking is going to exist? Cuz I'm

just curious from my side as like a carrier. I think that the thing is um I

carrier. I think that the thing is um I feel like progress for these things is like h like the thing the thing that's interesting about technology progress is like it nothing really happens for a

while and it happens all of a sudden >> like it's like it's it's it's like it's like very much like not like a linear curve it's like exponential.

>> So I think actually we're going to see something happen here in the next 5 years.

>> Wow. Um because like we've been working on like these like what what we see in the world of AI openai really planted to work on this deep mind from 2015 2014.

It took like like a lot of years of compounding and then it just went went everywhere.

>> Same thing's happening in self-driving like like Whimo and Tesla have been working on this stuff for like over close to over a decade.

>> Yeah.

>> And now we see the fruits of it in SF.

It's getting rolled out in New York.

It's kind of coming to more and more cities that I think pretty soon and like Tesla's autopilot stuff's been around. I

think we're going to hit some sort of exponential curve in the next 5 years and you're going to see that like self-driving trucks get adopted and it's going to become a game of game theory, right? Like where it's like your

right? Like where it's like your competitors are deploying self-driving trucks, they cost less and it's going to eventually get the whole industry by frenzy. So, I think it's like something

frenzy. So, I think it's like something that I think in the next 5 years we're going to see something exponential.

>> Wow. You're like the first one that actually says that. I I'm other most people say they think that's going to happen but then it gets pushed out because like stuff starts happening kind of like things go kind of wrong

>> like the first accident or regulation >> but I think he's got a good point that I think that's what I love about um Sushant because he has this irreressible

courage that he developed at a early age that to say things that are potentially unpopular or move slow when you like to go fast. So when you think that's going

go fast. So when you think that's going to happen, I'm just curious from a carrier. Do you think carriers like me

carrier. Do you think carriers like me will still be able to survive?

>> Yes.

>> Yes. You don't think it's going to be just one giant or two giant or three giant companies that pretty much buy up all the self-driving trucks and just run

it like as mega fleets. If that makes you like, if you think about the business model today, you have to go hire a driver. You have to buy like the cost of a tractor trailer. It's kind of the same thing, right? like the cost of

a self-driving car truck is going to be fixed. Like there's not really that much

fixed. Like there's not really that much economies of scales of owning thousand trucks versus owning five trucks. Like

you're you're you're kind of playing the reason transportation like FTL transportation has doesn't have this element of like uh extreme monopolistic tendencies is like actually there's not

that much benefit acrewed to scale. And

I think the same thing is kind of going to hold true with self-driving trucks, >> but it's going to wipe out all the owner operators. There won't be any owner

operators. There won't be any owner operators. And right now the market is

operators. And right now the market is pretty much I think like 70% zone operators or something like that. It's

it's a big number.

>> What what I don't fully know is like um in the next 5 years I did say I have a 5-year prediction but I don't what I don't have a full sense on is it going to be fully autonomous or is it going to be human >> assistant? Okay. So like with the human

>> assistant? Okay. So like with the human assistant >> because like I think that really even with agents like we don't really have fully autonomous agents even in the thing like the first wave of agents like in the digital world was like really

human assisted agents. My my suspicion is that what you see in the next five years looks most more closely to something that involves human supervision and we take incremental steps to fully autonomous trucking like

I think there's probably going to be an element of just for safety of mind right >> that we actually do have like this first wave that's like having human assisted trucks but yes there is there's probably

some truth the fact that at some point um we are going to see fully autonomous trucking and that is a risk for a lot of owner operators that there's no other way to get around it.

>> Why Pallet?

>> The name.

>> Yes.

>> I think that you we wanted a name that could relate to folks in the industry, something that was visual, simple, and we could own the website. And when we think of our customers, what do our customers move every day? Pallet.

[clears throat] >> So, we felt that it was a way to connect with our customers. It ties to the industry. It's a simple visual name.

industry. It's a simple visual name.

>> Um, >> short. Yeah.

>> short. Yeah.

>> Awesome. Do you guys want to touch on anything that we've maybe missed or um >> talk about anything else?

>> What's what's uh you guys have any news coming up or any like plans for the next like 5 years? What what's some goals that you guys have?

>> I mean, ultimately what we're going to do is like you don't even need to in in some future state, right? You're not

even going to need us for like setting up these AI workers. Like what we want to do is we're building what we're kind of building this product towards is something that's like ultimately very self-s servable where you can just come

go to pub.com put your SOP feed some instructions and kind of configure your own AI worker directly and you're good to go from there like you don't you you don't have to even like reach out to a

salesperson in the future like you like you can just go directly go and do it obviously the big enterprises >> to teach it to like teach it what you want to teach it right >> yeah and then the big enterprises still are obviously going to need the human

touch and so on But we want to make this product ubiquitous, accessible to anyone so that even smaller like five person trucking shops can just go and set up

their own agent really quickly. And um

that's what we're building towards. We

very much like want to be the person that people in the industry look up to is making this technology accessible for everyone, not just the biggest players.

And I think that's like something that I think is very important for us. Yeah.

>> And trusted to kind of to steal your word from earlier.

>> Yeah. If I had to leave the people watching this with with a couple things, it would be that firstly uh we what we care about generally is giving you the

most reliable agent that accomplishes your task the fastest, the best prizes.

The task of changing and and pulling AI might feel intimidating, but I will say that once you get familiar with the learning curve, it's going to be something that'll serve you for decades to come. And the risk in partnering with

to come. And the risk in partnering with a vendor of Pallet is there is no risk.

there are no professional services fees or nothing. It's an outcome based

or nothing. It's an outcome based pricing model. So you strictly know that

pricing model. So you strictly know that your cost of doing this task in house is always going to be higher than the agent. That the only thing that it's

agent. That the only thing that it's taking is your time. And I'd say that like if you think about your time usage, getting familiar with AI is probably the best thing you could be doing right now.

>> So I'd say that reach out to us. We want

to be your partners. Um and ultimately like look, it's going to feel a bit intimidating. It's going to feel a bit

intimidating. It's going to feel a bit risky, but in the long run, you're going to look back at the decision. You're

going to be like, "This is the least risky thing I could have done."

>> Yeah.

>> You're going to have an AI workforce that's going around doing all these tasks, and you're going to look back and feel like, "Wow, running this business is a whole lot stressful, >> way more way more margin accreative than

it was in the past." And I'm really looking back at this and looking forward. It's one of the best

forward. It's one of the best investments I made.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah. We'll end on that.

>> Thank you, guys. Appreciate it,

>> incredible. Thank you to meet you.

>> Yep. Great to meet you, too.

>> That was good. All right.

>> Yeah, if you let it be, if you put your mindset world just changed real quickly.

It got freaking scary.

>> I I don't know if VR is going to get unscary at any point. Even if it's not a scary situation, VR is still scary. You

have no idea what's going on at any point.

>> However, you just don't give a [ __ ] It's like you're going to live life. I

just don't give a [ __ ] I'm crazy.

>> But the best part at the end of the game, you have to choose one. That's

like how the game ends. Oh wow.

>> Wait, there's actually a way to kill none of them.

>> I studied the end games cuz I was like I don't want to kill any of them.

[laughter] >> If you like look enough at online forums, there's actually a way to avoid the ending where you have to kill one of the three games.

>> Oh every game and scary and scary.

You got to think about how to make it not scary.

>> Remembering to enjoy this journey we call life.