Simple Phrases to INSTANTLY Silence Disrespect | Jefferson Fisher

When somebody is belittling you, the first thing that I want you to do is number one, make them say it again.

That's right. I want you to make them say it again. That means you're going to tell them, "I need you to say that again. I need you to repeat that." When

again. I need you to repeat that." When

you make them say it again, they don't get that hit of dopamine that they're looking for. When somebody is belittling

looking for. When somebody is belittling you to put you down, they're looking for that spike uh to get them going, to have that feeling of control. We're not going to give them that. So, we're going to

talk about those strategies. Number two,

if they belittle you and they you ask them to say it again, then you're going to give them questions of intent.

Questions of intent. Those are questions that ask them to have them search into the intent of why they're asking or why they're saying what they're saying. For

example, did you intend to embarrass me?

Did you want that to hurt me? Again, we

are withholding that hit of dopamine.

And number three, if they have responses, are they going to keep on going and if they're not a person that you feel safe around? Number three, you just say nothing at all. You let your

silence be your response? Because often

when you say nothing at all, it's the most powerful move you can make. So, one

time I had a case, this was probably about two years ago, and I am training a client, and by the way, I train almost every client that I have in conflict

advice, how to communicate in conflict, how to say things in a way that's going to protect them because when they go when I present them for cross-examination at trial or a deposition, in many ways, I'm handing

them off for somebody else to try to hurt their credibility, for somebody else to attack them. Those are the opposing attorneys. She comes, it just

opposing attorneys. She comes, it just comes part of the job. And what I did with this particular person was train her on when somebody belittles you. If

they other side, which I knew the other attorney was, he was very critical. He

was somebody that uh was, you know, those type of people that just love to throw bombs in conversations just to aggravate you. It was very much like

aggravate you. It was very much like that. He was, I knew he was going to

that. He was, I knew he was going to want to say something to upset her. He

was going to try to say something to cause a reaction. And so what I trained her in is making sure that she gets uh him to repeat whatever he said that was

ugly in some way. And she she seemed to understand it. We kind of practiced it a

understand it. We kind of practiced it a few times. But then then on the day of

few times. But then then on the day of the deposition, she made me so proud. So

other attorney was asking her questions and he made a snide little comment. Most

people in that situation when somebody gives you a a a belittling comment, you want to take it, right? You want to take off with it and challenge them and start getting ugly with them. She didn't do

that. Instead, what she did was she

that. Instead, what she did was she asked him, "Did you say that to embarrass me?" She goes, "I'm sorry. Did

embarrass me?" She goes, "I'm sorry. Did

you did you say that to embarrass me?"

Without I mean, just immediately this other attorney goes, "Oh, no, no, no. I

mean, no. I didn't mean to say that."

and he totally backtracked in real time.

I mean, I could not I couldn't have wiped the grin off my face. All she

asked was, "Did you intend to embarrass me?" These little tips really, really

me?" These little tips really, really work. And I want to go back to number

work. And I want to go back to number one, and that is you asked them to repeat the belittling thing that they said. I know that sounds

said. I know that sounds counterintuitive. You're gonna think,

counterintuitive. You're gonna think, Jefferson, what are you what are you talking about? I'm gonna I'm gonna have

talking about? I'm gonna I'm gonna have them repeat the the belittling thing.

I'm gonna make them say it again. I have

to hear it twice. Yes. Yes. And let me tell you why. When somebody makes a belittling comment, they are wanting that reaction out of you. All right?

They are wanting some kind of response.

When they say something to um hurt you, they they you're giving them that reaction by being hurt, by getting upset, by huffing and puffing, throwing something back, by yelling at them.

That's what they want. often when you ask them, "I need you to repeat that. I

need you to say that again." They won't do it. They can't do it. Or they'll

do it. They can't do it. Or they'll

backtrack because they realize, "Oh, wait. They're not doing what I want them

wait. They're not doing what I want them to do. They're not taking the bait." And

to do. They're not taking the bait." And

so often they can't repeat it that second time or they'll say it differently than they did. They they'll

rephrase their words. If by chance that they do say it again, now you know what you're dealing with. And that goes to number two. You ask questions of intent.

number two. You ask questions of intent.

And this can be used from the workplace to home to kids who are being bullied in some way. When you ask somebody, "Did

some way. When you ask somebody, "Did you intend? Did you intend? Did you

you intend? Did you intend? Did you

intend for that to embarrass me? Did you

intend for that to upset me? Did you

intend to hurt me?" When you ask those questions, what it does is instead of the spotlight being on you and your behavior and how you're going to respond

to that belittling comment, it goes back to them. Now, the the spotlight flips.

to them. Now, the the spotlight flips.

It flips and they have to ask themselves these questions like a mirror. Why? Why

did I Why did I say that? Why did I do that? They're forced to now answer the

that? They're forced to now answer the intent behind the purpose behind their hurtful words. And so often when that

hurtful words. And so often when that happens, the other person will apologize or rephrase or say, "I didn't I didn't mean it that way." Or they'll move on.

What the the biggest key to this is you're not going anywhere. You are

showing that you're standing your ground. You're not saying anything rude.

ground. You're not saying anything rude.

You're not putting your integrity on the line. You're just asking them to see

line. You're just asking them to see themselves by just saying, "Why did you do this? Did you intend to hurt me? Did

do this? Did you intend to hurt me? Did

you intend for that to upset me?"

Because what you're telling them is whatever you meant to do, it's not having that effect. Whatever you meant for that to be, you're not getting it.

And they'll backtrack from it. Number

three, if by chance they respond and say, "Yeah, I didn't mean to hurt you.

Yeah, yeah, I did mean for that to embarrass you." Understand that's not

embarrass you." Understand that's not somebody you want to be around, right?

That's not somebody you want in your life. But the best thing that you can do

life. But the best thing that you can do often in those situations is say nothing. Now, I don't mean that to say

nothing. Now, I don't mean that to say I'm not equipping you with any tools and just be a, you know, a wallflower or somebody just to be laid over. No. What

I'm saying is often silence when you just look at them, it says, "I don't have to respond to anything that you said. It's not having that effect." And

said. It's not having that effect." And

then their their words ring hollow because there's it just nothing for them to their words to stick on to. It's just

nothing but an echo. And that's how you're going to have something to where you're going to be more powerful every single time. So, let's run through a

single time. So, let's run through a quick example. All right, let's assume

quick example. All right, let's assume maybe you're at work in a team meeting or something and you make a a suggestion and somebody makes a bidding comment.

They say, "Nobody asked you." Or,

"Nobody cares." Have you heard that before where somebody says, "Did I ask?"

Or, "Uh, nobody cares." Nobody asked you. When you hear that, let's go.

you. When you hear that, let's go.

Number one, make them say it again. That

means you're going to ask, "Can you repeat that or say that again for me? Say that again for me." They're going to say, "Nobody

for me." They're going to say, "Nobody asked you." If if they actually have the

asked you." If if they actually have the guts to repeat it. Number two, going to go to a question of intent, like, "Do you say that to make me feel less? Do

you make do you say that to make me feel small? Did you intend for that to

small? Did you intend for that to embarrass me? Did you intend to dismiss

embarrass me? Did you intend to dismiss my ideas? Do you say that to dismiss my

my ideas? Do you say that to dismiss my ideas? You see how you're taking what

ideas? You see how you're taking what you perceive their action to be doing and you reflect it back on them like a mirror? Did you intend for that to hurt

mirror? Did you intend for that to hurt my feelings? When you say that, they

my feelings? When you say that, they then have the spotlight all on them.

They have the floor to either correct the issue, accept the issue, and apologize, or double down on it. and

whatever they say. Now, if they apologize, it's it's up to you if you want to accept that apology if it if it's a genuine apology. But if they double down on it, then don't feel the

need to go back at them. Don't feel the need to say anything ugly. You just let it go silent because if other people are around, they're going to be paying attention to your integrity. Other

people are going to be paying attention to how you're going to respond. And the

person who is more emotionally mature every single time is the person who feels like they don't have to respond to disrespect. They don't have to respond

disrespect. They don't have to respond to these things that are belittling or beneath them in some way that you have this threshold of respect before you respond to these kind of things. All

right, we're at the part of the episode where I get to read a question from a follower. It's one of my favorite parts

follower. It's one of my favorite parts of the episode. If you're not part of my weekly newsletter, I send out an email once a week right to your inbox and those who are part of the newsletter are

able to email me questions. So, that's

where I get all these from. This one is from Carol. She's in Denmark.

from Carol. She's in Denmark.

Let me pull it up. Carol says, "Hey, Jefferson. I love all of your advice."

Jefferson. I love all of your advice."

Thank you, Carol. I have an issue with somebody at work. This is a colleague or co-orker of mine, and he likes to compare me to different things. For

example, he would say, "Not bad for an old lady." Or, "Not bad for a blank."

old lady." Or, "Not bad for a blank."

I'm guessing this is comparing you to something else. These are things that

something else. These are things that really bother me and I I like to try and wave them off, downplay them, but sometimes when I'm home alone, they really really get under my skin. What do

you suggest, Carol? I'm so sorry that that that happens. Um, I don't like that at all. I need to meet this person. The

at all. I need to meet this person. The

way you described it, it was a male co-orker and I don't want to get into the differences on on men, women, but what I can tell you is here are some

basics that I want you to follow. Number

one, Carol, you stay as calm as possible. Don't wave this off. Don't

possible. Don't wave this off. Don't

laugh it off. Absolutely not. Because

when you laugh it off or you act like it's not a big deal, it it does nothing to stop them from doing it again. They

will continue to do it. This person will continue to say these belittling things.

And that's often a a very belittling tactic is when somebody compares you to things. Uh not bad for an ugly person,

things. Uh not bad for an ugly person, not bad for somebody who's old and tired. Not bad for somebody who's x, y,

tired. Not bad for somebody who's x, y, and z. or they might say, "You're you're

and z. or they might say, "You're you're so annoying. You're such an idiot. Um,

so annoying. You're such an idiot. Um,

you know, you're not not bad for the not the sharpest tool in the shed kind of thing." These little things that they

thing." These little things that they think are funny in that moment. And most

likely, he's doing it in front of other people, trying to get some kind of laugh, trying to get attention. I want

you to stop all of that by remaining calm like we talked about. Number one,

remain completely calm about it. And

don't laugh it off. Number two, ask him a question. I I and I'm This is the

a question. I I and I'm This is the question.

Did you say that to embarrass me? Did

you say that to hurt me?

Make him question the purpose of why he's asking that?

Did you say that because you thought it was funny? Did you say that to get a

was funny? Did you say that to get a laugh? You can call this kind of

laugh? You can call this kind of behavior out very quickly by asking these questions of intent like we talked about earlier in the episode. If that

doesn't feel comfortable to you, Carol, you can always ask him to repeat that.

So, if he were to say something like, "You know what? That's not not too bad for an old lady."

He might not have said that in a way to be hurtful, but it's man, it certainly can feel that way. And if you ask him to repeat it, say, "I say that again for

me. I need you to say that again.

me. I need you to say that again.

Right, man. He he he might feel that and go, "Oh, I can tell it's he's not going to want to say that again." Or if you've asked, "I need you to say that again

slower for me." That that means you're asking him to say, "Not bad for an old lady." He's probably never going to say

lady." He's probably never going to say that because it's going to expose him.

It's going to put him too far out on a ledge. People don't like to feel like

ledge. People don't like to feel like they're exposed in their bad behavior.

That's what repeating asking them to repeat it does. That's what asking them these questions of intent does. When

they um when they go off on a ledge, they feel like, "Oh, everybody's listening to me. Everybody can tell. And

when they feel that way, they hide. They

hide because they know at that point they've gone too far. They've gone too far, Carol." So, when that happens,

far, Carol." So, when that happens, don't smile. Don't laugh it off. Don't

don't smile. Don't laugh it off. Don't

wave it off. Don't try and be uh funny with it. I want you to just calmly ask

with it. I want you to just calmly ask the question, "Did you say that to embarrass me and just let that rest? Give it that silence. Don't feel like you have to

silence. Don't feel like you have to rush. Don't let it bother you. Don't let

rush. Don't let it bother you. Don't let

it get you upset because that's what he wants to be able to say, "Did you did you say that to because you thought it was funny?"

was funny?" and just h just let that hover right there in the air and see how he responds. Most likely the result you're

responds. Most likely the result you're going to get, Carol, is he's not going to do that again. And at the end of the day, what you have demonstrated and shown him without even saying it is that

you're the type of person that can stand your ground. You're the type of person

your ground. You're the type of person that is not going to be pushed over. All

right. When somebody makes a belittling comment to you, how do you react? What

I'm hoping is that by the end of this episode, that answer changes or at least you see a little bit more into the below the surface of what's happening between

you and the person who's making that comment. The belittling comment, like I

comment. The belittling comment, like I said at the beginning, is not about you.

It's about them. Number one, when somebody gives you a belittling comment, meaning something that's mean, rude, meant to make you feel little, to be

little, it is under no uncertain terms a grasp at maintaining hierarchy. In other

words, it's an assertion of dominance.

The word belittle, right, to to make you feel small, is to then make themselves feel big. And

feel big. And in process of that and as a result of that you have this levels this system of here they are now they've created a

hierarchy in which they're on top and you are below. That's how you feel with a bully right think of grade school think of junior high school wherever it

is maybe in work even now as an adult you have somebody who's a bully personality. Where do they picture

personality. Where do they picture themselves in that hierarchy? Bullies

never think that they're lower than you.

They think they're above everybody. Give

me your lunch money. I have this spot.

This is mine. That's mine now. I am the one on top of the hierarchy. You must

all now serve me. Belitting comments are a grab for hierarchy. So that's why often when people feel the most

insecure, they have to reach for outside things, right? to have that inner that

things, right? to have that inner that inner sense of that ability to live with themselves because they don't have that in inner security. So they have to have

that outer grab for it. And where we hear that a lot of the times is that reach for hierarchy and dominance and saying mean things to make you feel

less. Now let me put this in a a

less. Now let me put this in a a different view. Belittling comments are

different view. Belittling comments are not always ones that are direct. Have

you ever had somebody give you a belittling comment that you realized maybe a few minutes or an hour later of like I don't think that was a compliment. You know what I don't I

compliment. You know what I don't I don't think they really meant that. I

think that was a slight bel comments are not always direct. They can very much be indirect and still it is a grab for hierarchy. So number one, what I want

hierarchy. So number one, what I want you to realize when somebody's giving you that kind of comment on the offensive is see it for what it is and

it is a grab for hierarchy. Number two,

the best way to deal with that grab for hierarchy is to not take it personal by decoding the intent. Decoding the

intent. In other words, rather than trying to see it in this glossy magazine style form, understand that there's

hieroglyphics to it. In other words, there's this secret language that they're not giving you. So, when

somebody's saying something ugly, the best way to to decode it is to use questions that look for the intent of what they're saying. I teach that the

best way you can do this, and I have this all throughout my book, um, The Next Conversation, is that you use questions rather than responses when somebody's giving you something

belittling.

Not only because you're trying to get to the intent, but because you are trying to get them to see the intent. So, let's

assume you said something ugly to me right now. Go ahead, think of something

right now. Go ahead, think of something ugly. Oh, that hurt my feelings. I'm

ugly. Oh, that hurt my feelings. I'm

kidding. If you had said something ugly to me and my question to you after giving you a pause was, "Did you mean to hurt my

feelings?"

feelings?" What does that do? What does that do? It

immediately gets to the the intent, the purpose, the motive. That's what you're looking for. If you said something mean

looking for. If you said something mean to me and I went, "Excuse me, me? Let me

let me tell you something about you."

and just send it right back to you. And

now I'm having that that grab for hierarchy. Oh, you think you're this? I

hierarchy. Oh, you think you're this? I

I don't know if you know who you're talking to. Maybe I need to remind you

talking to. Maybe I need to remind you who I am. And you try to bow up. You try

to get bigger. What is that? That is

hierarchy grab. That is dominance. That

is I am the king of the mountain here.

I'm the the superior one. That almost

always goes south. and you never get the true motive. Instead, you're the one who

true motive. Instead, you're the one who has to live with that and have to now um live with that regret and the wonder of what could have been had you not reacted

so violently to it. And I don't mean physically, I mean with your with your words when you send it right back to him. But if I were to say, "Did you mean

him. But if I were to say, "Did you mean for that to offend me? Did you mean for that to embarrass me? Did you say that so that I would get uncomfortable? You

hear how me asking a question and trying to get to the intent shuts shuts it all down and now puts it all back on you. The person who said the

mean thing to go, I don't I don't know.

Maybe the spotlight is now back on you.

Maybe it feels a little awkward. Maybe

it all of a sudden just doesn't feel fun anymore because now you're going, "This is not what I thought this person would say." When you decode the intent, what

say." When you decode the intent, what it does is help you realize that it has nothing to do with you. They're just in a bad mood. Maybe they're feeling

insecure, or maybe they're having um feeling like their job is insignificant, or maybe they're jealous and things that have nothing to do with you whatsoever.

And by looking to the intent, it is now you naturally go up in the hierarchy without doing anything whatsoever. That is

control. That is the genuine kind of authentic power of using your words to stand your ground. In other words, it naturally does that of a progression in

the communication, not by trying to assert it. You feel the difference? So

assert it. You feel the difference? So

when you ask the question, did you mean did you mean for that to upset me? Did

you mean? Did you intend?

Was the purpose of you saying that to do X, Y, and Z? Whenever you're able to ask those questions, you decode the intent for a better conversation. And for sure,

if not a better conversation, to stand your ground and feel more confident and feel more controlled. And that right there is a lot to be proud of. Before we

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go try some. And now back to the episode. And number three, understand

episode. And number three, understand that belitt littleing comments at the very outset we ask the question of what do they mean? What do they really mean?

You know this. They're a projection of insecurity.

Almost always somebody is projecting how they feel onto you. So, not only are you looking for intent, part of that is you're starting to look at, oh, this is

how they feel about themselves. If

they're judgmental about what you're wearing or how you are looking, you can be rest assured they are all the

more critical and insecure about how they look and they would much rather call attention to you than to them. If

somebody is putting down your intelligence in some way, one, that's a sign of somebody not being intelligent.

That's somebody who's being emotionally immature, who lacks that emotional intelligence. And so to make it up, they

intelligence. And so to make it up, they have to poke fun at your intelligence or your significance or how much you're worth in your job and who's more

important. I feel like a lot of

important. I feel like a lot of struggles between married couples, between um relationships and friendships and at work especially, it is a

dominance of whose job is more important. Whose job is more important

important. Whose job is more important and that breeds a lot of insecurity between both people and so you'll hear comments where somebody's trying to put down your job or I mean you just have to go to that meeting. I mean but that's

not even that. and they'll put it down because there is an actual insecurity of how they're feeling in that moment of whether or not they even matter or do

they even feel authentic to themselves and it it is it is natural and normal and we are all capable of giving bolent comments. I don't want you to feel like

comments. I don't want you to feel like biling comments just come from these unknown it it always comes from them. We

have them too. All right, we have them too. And why? Because we know deep down

too. And why? Because we know deep down if we have to go through the layers and are actually honest with ourselves is because deep down we have a insecurity

that we're masking to. So as part of decoding the intent, understand that it is simply a projection of how they are

feeling. And that helps inform you that

feeling. And that helps inform you that helps inform you of what's happening in that moment. And that is it. It is a

that moment. And that is it. It is a grab for dominance. Your best move is to not retaliate, not respond, and use a

question that goes to the intent that's going to give you the level of consciousness that you did not have before and see that, oh, this is simply

a projection. And now I'm looking at the

a projection. And now I'm looking at the intent. This is a projection of that

intent. This is a projection of that they're feeling. And now we're at the

they're feeling. And now we're at the full circle is it's not about you, it's about them. All right? So number one,

about them. All right? So number one, understand it's a power grab. It's an

assertion of dominance and hierarchy.

Number two, what you want to do is use intent, questions of intent to decode what's happening. And it takes away that

what's happening. And it takes away that personal feeling and effect from you.

And number three, it is simply a projection of their own insecurity, which helps inform you where you truly stand. And if you are listening to this

stand. And if you are listening to this podcast and go, you know what? The next

time I get a belittling comment, I'm not going to respond. I'm going to stay still. I'm going to control myself. I'm

still. I'm going to control myself. I'm

going to stay regulated. I'm going to use a question of intent to find out what they really mean. And here you might be asking, "Well, Jefferson, what if they say yes?" If I say, "Do did you

mean for to embarrass me?" And they say yes. Your response is good to know.

yes. Your response is good to know.

And act like it doesn't bother you at all because it shouldn't. It shouldn't.

It's going to be let that weight be carried with them. They're the ones that are going to have to live with that that yes and deal with those emotions that they have to carry. Eventually, they're

going to have to process that sometime in their life. Don't put that. Don't

don't you carry that. Most of the time people say no. They adjust. They walk it back. They feel awkward. They apologize.

back. They feel awkward. They apologize.

They feel sheepish. That right there naturally adjusts the control in the right way. How do you handle somebody

right way. How do you handle somebody that kind of belittles you? They're like

picking on your weight or they're >> constantly like, "Are you still single?"

Like, you know, like people like especially people that you're close with have a way of belittling you, >> right?

>> What would what do you do in those situations? When somebody's belittling

situations? When somebody's belittling you or giving you a insult and that hurtful comment, you make them repeat it because what they're hoping to do in

that belittling comment is get that reaction out of you. And instead, you find a way to take all the fun out of it. So, when you ask them to repeat what

it. So, when you ask them to repeat what they said, you're not giving them that hit of dopamine that they were expecting from your reaction. They're not getting that that response time from you.

instead you're delaying that gratification for them. Then it's just not worth it. Then it's just not fun.

And so when you ask them to repeat it to say, "I need you to say that again."

>> I'm thinking of of like using this with a couple people in my life.

>> Yeah.

>> We need to role play this.

>> Sure.

>> Um I'm trying to think of a scenario >> like you just said right there. Um

you're still single.

>> I need you to repeat that.

>> Yeah. You So exactly. then I'm not going to want to say that again because now that spotlight is on me and then also what you lead up with that is you ask

questions of intent. For example, did you say that to hurt me?

And now it's this mirror that they feel like why did why did I say that? Oh,

okay. And then they start to backtrack.

Then you don't have to say anything. But

if often I can just repeat what they said. So, if uh somebody says to you,

said. So, if uh somebody says to you, "Uh, oh, so you're still single."

I need you to say that again.

Most likely they're not going to say that again. But if they do, then you can

that again. But if they do, then you can even repeat what they said. I'm still

single. That's what you asked me. And

all of a sudden, they realize this isn't fun. They're not going to ask that kind

fun. They're not going to ask that kind of thing again.

>> Wow.

>> Or you just ask that question of, "Did you say that to embarrass me? Did you

say that to offend me? Oh, no, no, no, no. I didn't say that. What what I meant

no. I didn't say that. What what I meant was and all of a sudden they're backing away because they know you're going to stand your ground.

Wow.

This is like very eye opening because I can see both situations where I need to use it and I can see situations where I

probably say things and I'm thinking particularly to my adult kids that probably feels belittling. I I can think about like our our daughter out in Los

Angeles and every time I see her, she's wearing a piece of clothing that I don't recognize. And so I think to myself, and

recognize. And so I think to myself, and often times I will say, "Is that new?"

And I'm thinking in my mind, where where do you get the money for this? You know, like that kind of thing.

this? You know, like that kind of thing.

And then she's like, "Yeah, I thrifted it." And there's this little tiff thing.

it." And there's this little tiff thing.

But if she were to say to me, >> if she was to ask you, >> are you trying to embarrass me?

Exactly. Are are you trying to insinuate something?

>> Uh are you trying to say something that you're not wanting to tell me?

>> Cuz you're right. The question

>> is what I'm saying on the surface, but what I'm actually accusing her of is not being responsible with her money.

>> It's that mirror.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> Yes.

>> And so it takes away the power of their insult.

>> Wow. When you can take all the fun out of it, you take all the oxygen out of their room and they realize that they're not going to be able to control you with that reaction that they were hoping to get from you.

>> Holy cow. How do you respond to disrespect?

>> A lot of silence. So often if you just wait 10 seconds that you're going to add distance between what they said and how you're

going to respond.

And that makes it very clear because what they're wanting when somebody's disrespectful is the same way with belittling. They're wanting a reaction.

belittling. They're wanting a reaction.

They're saying this to get something out of you because in that moment they're feeling something. Whether it's a fear,

feeling something. Whether it's a fear, an insecurity, whatever it is, you're understanding you're not going to you're not going to deliver on that same plane that they are. You're not going to be on that same level. So somebody says

something disrespectful, you give enough silence to make sure that it's a little awkward.

And then you're going to say something to the effect of that's below my standard for a response.

And then all of a sudden they feel like the the dynamic has been flipped. That's

below my standard of respect.

Something as simple as that. All of a sudden you're now making it clear that what you just said was beneath me and I don't respond to things that are beneath

me in that way. And so now you're taking control of it, now you're leaning into it. What they thought was meant as a

it. What they thought was meant as a disrespect, they're now understanding that they're in the wrong place.

>> What do you do? I I I was with somebody yesterday who had just visited their mother, and I said to her, you know, like, how did it go? And she said,

"Well, it was fine, but it's my mother."

And the thing that drives me crazy is she is extremely disrespectful >> to anybody that is waiting on us at a

restaurant. Like so much so that the

restaurant. Like so much so that the owner came over and said something to her. What do you is there a way to

her. What do you is there a way to respond when someone else is throwing a fit or is being disrespectful? You know

what I mean? Like somebody's getting testy at the airport or and they're they're with you. It's not a complete stranger. Is there something that you

stranger. Is there something that you can say to somebody in that situation?

>> Depends how your relationship is with that person. I would advise that whoever

that person. I would advise that whoever they're disrespecting. You don't join in

they're disrespecting. You don't join in it and you make it clear that that is not your behavior. So, you're going to be person that is kind to this person.

So, I've had it before. My grandfather

came with me to Walmart. This is a terrible time. Uh, and he was he was in

terrible time. Uh, and he was he was in a bad mood and he was crotchitty to everybody we talked to. But I was the one that was, "Thank you so much for helping us. I appreciate it. Thank you

helping us. I appreciate it. Thank you

so much." Being overly, "Hey, I understand. Thank you." Making that eye

understand. Thank you." Making that eye contact with this other person of this other person's not having a good time.

And then you have that conversation. I

had to have that conversation with my grandfather. And

grandfather. And >> how did you do that?

>> I had to put a boundary uh a very firm boundary of if this is the way you're going to talk to people, I can't come with you.

If you don't change the tone in which you're talking to people, papa, I I can't I can't come. And so it very was uh what what what am I saying? You're

not being respectful to people. Yes, I

am. I would not be telling you this if you had been respectful to people.

And and it's just having this this conversation where they need to it's the people you love and often you have to be their their biggest mirror of protecting

them also for how other people see them.

And so I love my grandfather. I want

other people to love him. And that means I also have to make sure that I need to put I need to prepare him in a loving way of being very direct. This is how you're talking to people.

>> Has he changed?

>> He has. Wow.

>> We also just don't go to Walmart. So

So you can actually calm yourself down by by rubbing this or even rubbing the sides of your arms. It reminds us of when we were babies and our our parents rubbed us to try to calm us down. So

it's a very um sensitive part of our body for self soothing as well as protective gesture. Here's the problem.

protective gesture. Here's the problem.

So Cornell did a a massive research experiment looking at untrustworthiness or dis mistrust behaviors. They asked

people, "When do you most mistrust others?" and they cataloged all these

others?" and they cataloged all these different cues and there are four cues that signal others to not trust you.

Again, these aren't actual signals of mistrust. They just socially we have

mistrust. They just socially we have been conditioned to think, uh-oh, is someone not telling us the truth? The

first one is touching the face. So, we

have to be very careful. The neck is not one, but it can very easily go up into a face touch where we're rubbing our face, we're touching the sides of our eyes, we're biting our fingernails. We

associate self-touch of the face with anxiety, nervousness, and deception. So

I always tell my students, do not touch your face.

>> I say the same exact thing in depositions for clients I'm preparing.

>> If they start to about to answer a question and they start touching their face, I'm like, oh, that's not >> don't don't >> don't don't don't do it. So

>> like do not touch your face. That's the

first thing. The second thing that they found was a lean away, which is a called a distancing behavior. And this is makes a lot of sense from a from a psychological perspective, which is if we don't like something, we want to get

away from it. And so we will take a step back, we lean back, we even will tilt our head over to the side. I've noticed

um we do a lot of like mock depositions and code them for deception behaviors that when I bring up a topic someone doesn't like, they will literally like, "Oh, let me think." And they pull their

head back and away. It's a psy it's a it's without even realizing it's a subconscious way of trying to get away from that question they don't like or that information you tell someone bad news they're like no >> and they lean all the way back or they

step away. So if you lean back, tilt

step away. So if you lean back, tilt back, scoop back, lean away, it is signaling that you don't like something or perhaps that was a topic that you are being deceptive about. This is why it's

really important to understand space your how you're interacting in space that the fancy word for that is proxmics. I always say claim your space.

proxmics. I always say claim your space.

So like I stand for my podcast because it helps me move less. I also make sure that when I'm on stage I'm lateral moving or I'm forward moving.

>> The only time I ever move back on stage is when I'm showing a video because then I want people to not pay attention to me. I want them to pay attention to the

me. I want them to pay attention to the video. So thinking very carefully about

video. So thinking very carefully about your world blocking is actually important. The third thing that Cornell

important. The third thing that Cornell found was any kind of crossed arms. Now, crossed arms is such a hard one because it is comfortable. And I know it feels

so comfortable to cross our arms. It makes us feel warm and cozy. It makes us feel protected. But study after study

feel protected. But study after study after study after study finds that when we see someone in any situation with closed arms, it makes them look more

close-minded and sometimes deceptive.

>> One research study really changed my mind on this. I I always knew that it gave a bad impression, but actually it changes your own thinking. They gave

people creative tasks in open body language or closed body language. And

they found that when people had their arms crossed, they were less creative.

They were less open-minded. In other

words, there's sort of a cycle between our body and our mind that if we are blocking ourselves, our mind even kind of shuts down a little bit as well. And

so if you can get out of the habit of crossing your arms when you're in interpersonal situations, I don't care what you do when you're by yourself, but especially in those first impression, those pitches or presentations, do not

cross your arms. There's one exception to this if you want to look closed off.

So there are times in negotiations, this is only in certain kinds of professions where you want your body to negotiate for you. Something that I teach my sales

for you. Something that I teach my sales professionals and my negotiators is you don't always have to verbally negotiate with someone. You can non-verbally

with someone. You can non-verbally negotiate with them. So, they negotiate with themselves. In other words, if

with themselves. In other words, if someone gives you a number or a framing or a piece of information that you don't like, you can non-verbally signal, I don't like that, with a crossed arms and

a lean back. And then just wait.

Just wait. Because you just signal to them without saying a word, I don't like that. give it three or four seconds of a

that. give it three or four seconds of a pause and see if they negotiate with themselves. So, you can also signal

themselves. So, you can also signal these things to speak for you. That's

the one exception I have for crossed arms. >> What do you what do what's your take on crossed legs?

>> I don't mind them. And the research also doesn't really mind them. And the reason for this is because if we cross our legs, it makes us look comfortable or at ease. You know, there's a classic um uh

ease. You know, there's a classic um uh video that I show in my presentations of Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy in the first televised presidential debate. And

in that debate, Kennedy has his arms his his legs crossed and his arms loose. And

it makes him look like a president. It

makes him look like he's here to stay.

And so crossed legs just shows that you're at ease. It's not necessarily a confident gesture. It just shows that

confident gesture. It just shows that you're here to stay. And it's not considered blocking because your vital organs are actually up here. This is the most important vital organ. We can't we can't survive if our heart is attacked.

And so, um, if as long as our torso is open, that's more important than legs.

That's a really good distinction, by the way.

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And that kind of resonates with me on in early parts of trials that I've had.

And then when I was uh teaching other younger associates on trials, I would make them get to the courtroom early. Typically the day before, I'd ask

early. Typically the day before, I'd ask the court uh coordinator, let us in and just make them sit in the chairs just to get a feel for I want you to feel like

this is not your first time here, like your whole body position. And so that means if you're going to lean back, cross your legs, relax your arms a little bit, like you're listening rather than the attorneys that are they're like

this, hands on the paper and they're reading their next question. Like the

jury needs to see that you are 100% comfortable. Same thing with when you're

comfortable. Same thing with when you're giving all your presentations on the stage. A person who feels the most

stage. A person who feels the most comfortable makes the other person the most comfortable.

>> Yes. And by the way, the opposite of a lean back is a lean in. And leaning in should be used purposefully. So, I love neutral. Like I, as you said, like

neutral. Like I, as you said, like you're kind of lawyers, they're like sitting up reading their paper is great.

This makes you look attentive. A lean in is a cue that shows you want to get closer and also the other person might want to lean in as well. And so, for example, even on this podcast, if I'm

saying something that I really believe in, I might use the lean as a way to bold or emphasize what I'm saying. If

someone else says something that I really agree with, I might lean in to show I am emphasizing or bolding what you are saying. Um, and on stage especially, I have a lot of stage

presenters who take my classes and I tell them, you want to lean in as a way to outline your content for the audience. It lowers cognitive load if

audience. It lowers cognitive load if you can show your audience what your most important points are with your body. We do this with Arlene. So, we can

body. We do this with Arlene. So, we can lean into the stage. Like, for example, if I'm talking on stage and I'm like, "This is the most important point."

>> You're immediately queued in to up pay attention. put our pens down and watch.

attention. put our pens down and watch.

>> Um, same thing with an eyebrow raise.

They found research looked at eyebrow raises and across cultures, we recognize an eyebrow raise, not a lid raise, but an eyebrow raise as a universal sign of curiosity. You know, our eyebrows are

curiosity. You know, our eyebrows are trying to get up out of the way so we can see more. When I raise my eyebrows, it cues you to look at my face >> as if I'm about to say something really interesting,

>> even if I'm not.

>> And so it you can use you can use cues to help your listeners. And by the way, there is a very fine line, I think, between being purposeful with your cues and being manipulative with your cues. And

that is the hardest thing in my line of work. And I don't know if you have this

work. And I don't know if you have this as well as you teach communication, which is your intention has to be good.

>> Yeah.

>> Your intention has to be pure. When I'm

on stage, my entire goal is to make it as easy and as fun to listen to me as possible. So, I'm trying to add these

possible. So, I'm trying to add these cues in to outline this is interesting.

This is difficult. Now watch the video.

We're here on this. We're talking about three different points. Here are the three. So that you are as a I'm taking

three. So that you are as a I'm taking all that load for you. Same thing with warmth and competence. I don't want you to showcase warmth cues if you don't actually like someone.

>> We talk about that a lot here of I can give you any kind of phrase. I can teach you how to disarm. I can I teach you to to deceive uh diffuse. I can teach you

to diffuse. But if if your intent is in

to diffuse. But if if your intent is in the bad in a bad spot, if you're not in a good state of mind, it's all for not.

That's that's the that's the uh the dark arts, as I call it. You don't you don't >> Can I give one study on why why this is true?

>> Yes.

>> So, I can teach you all the cues in the world, but if you have ill intention, they're going to leak. Mhm.

>> And the way I know this is they took a very disgusting they did a very disgusting study where they had people come into their lab and they had them put on sweatuits which catches their sweat and they had them run on the treadmill. So get really sweaty in these

treadmill. So get really sweaty in these sweatuits. The second group put on

sweatuits. The second group put on sweatuits and skydived for the first time. So like terror sweat.

time. So like terror sweat.

>> They took these sweat samples and they had unsuspecting participants smell >> each of these samples and they had no idea what they were smelling. They had

no idea they were literally smelling armpits. But what they found was when

armpits. But what they found was when people smelled the skydiving sweat, the fear sweat, their own amydala lit up, they actually caught the fear. Whereas

when they smelled the treadmill sweat, nothing happened.

>> In other words, if you are afraid, people can smell it. Our cues are contagious in so many ways that we don't realize. So we have to have a base of

realize. So we have to have a base of warmth and competence and goodness.

And that is going to showcase. We just

have to highlight it with specific cues.

>> Absolutely. It's always the how to communicate kindness. You got to you got

communicate kindness. You got to you got to be able to balance it out. I'm

curious, Vanessa, before we uh end it, >> how do you communicate your worth when someone is being offensive or adding a

little digs underneath their language?

Maybe they're trying to get a message across um and they're frustrated, so they're saying a few things that would be offensive to you potentially or maybe hurt you or maybe kind of put you beneath.

>> Yeah.

>> How do you create a boundary consciously with them so that they don't keep doing that in the future where it's letting them know, hey, this this type of communication doesn't really work for me. It's not okay. And and owning your

me. It's not okay. And and owning your worth.

>> Yeah. while also being able to throw it away at the same time and not let it get to you. Like how do you navigate that so

to you. Like how do you navigate that so that that doesn't continue to happen in friendships or in relationships or in career >> right >> where that doesn't continue like I understand we can do it once or twice or

three times but if someone's always doing that to us >> right >> how do we create create that boundary and and consciously communicate our worth >> depending on the context about who that person is you know who who they are in

your life so some people you just can't get away from I mean or family members what have you but it's a balance of your call you and then what we're going to just call as what I'm interested in. So

if somebody were going to say something that's offensive in a way and they they are pushing me, it's a much more powerful move, a very

dominant, assertive move to say I'm not interested in returning what you just gave.

>> Oh wow. That's a it's a power move.

>> Yeah. Oh yeah. And see it's it >> so if I say Jefferson you know it was pretty idiotic what you did the other day to me and I just didn't you know

>> you just looked like an idiot but I what I really want to do is is I moving forward I want us to go and do this thing instead >> whatever I'm just >> I'm with yeah I'm with you.

>> How would you respond to something like like that? So if somebody Well, what you

like that? So if somebody Well, what you kind of did was you you like hid it into something else that they did.

>> So what I I would first do is call that out. I I hear two points.

out. I I hear two points.

>> Yeah. And so I'm like I'm not going to skip that. So

skip that. So >> Okay. So you want to you want to just

>> Okay. So you want to you want to just throw the trash away right away. You got

it. You address it.

>> Well, because they're trying to hide the trash in the good. And so I my response is, well, I see two different things.

So, that first point, I don't have an interest in responding to whatever or I'm going to say, "Well, maybe I did look like an idiot, but I'm not going to

be I'm not going to be holding on to whatever message you're trying to to send to me."

>> But it's a it's much more a dominant move to say, "I have no interest in returning what you're sending."

>> Right? I have no interest in calling you what I saw yesterday, you do, or something like that.

>> You got it. But if you use the phrase, I have no interest. I have no interest in in talking about your opinion of my performance.

>> Oh, interesting.

>> You know what I mean? Like it's

obviously that's not something you want to start off with cuz that could sound that could sound defensive. That can

sound issues. But the point of it is when you say I have no interest, you're letting them know I don't have an it's like you're saying that as you're doing the trash can. I really don't have an

interest. And you know what? this this

interest. And you know what? this this

kind of food it's not great for me doesn't really settle well with me but what does taste good is what you said you know about x y and z and so you kind of imagine those words as part of let's say it's kind of you know your diet

sorry I'm a little lactose intolerant but right so let's let's skip the milk and talk about something else >> the first thing to know about standing up for yourself is knowing when to do it

because number one not everybody's worth getting out of your chair for it is a know your worth mentality ity and we're going to talk exactly where you need to go in your mind leading up to these

conversations. Number two, get rid of

conversations. Number two, get rid of the verbal disclaimers. These are little statements you say before you say what you need to say, like, "Hey, I'm I'm sorry, but I I I just feel like maybe

we're going to talk about getting rid of those and how to do it." Number three, stop justifying the nos. Stop having to feel like you need to explain yourself on and on just because you turn somebody

down. And when you do that, it takes

down. And when you do that, it takes away slowly from your self-confidence.

And I don't want to see that. Now, maybe

nobody's told you this, but just because somebody has said something does not mean that it requires a response from you. Just because they threw a pitch

you. Just because they threw a pitch doesn't mean you have to swing. You just

let it go by. There's this idea in our head that because somebody gave us an opinion, we have to give an opinion back. That's just not true. When it

back. That's just not true. When it

comes to standing up for yourself, it is often the person that is not worth your time that you don't need to give attention to. And often that's the exact

attention to. And often that's the exact opposite of what we do. We find

ourselves trying to justify and explain to people that do not matter in our life, the people that that rank low in our priority list, but yet we we feel like we have to prove something to them

every single time that we talk.

Eliminate that concern. When people play chess, it's expected that you're going to take a pawn. Nobody freaks out about it. Nobody loses their mind when

it. Nobody loses their mind when somebody takes a pawn because they know the value is not the pawn. They can take a rook, okay? They want to take a queen.

That's different. Understand that

there's going to be lots of different conflicts in your in your life, lots of different conversations. They are not

different conversations. They are not all the same.

the the feeling you get by talking with certain people, those friendships, where they rank in relationship to you, they're not all the same. So, what I

want you to understand is stop attending every argument that you're invited to.

Just because that somebody gave an opinion and said something to you, you had the choice of just letting it go.

See, that does not require any response from me. That is not worth my time.

from me. That is not worth my time.

That's why I say it's a know your worth mentality. Before you stand up for

mentality. Before you stand up for yourself and feel like you have to say something, ask the question, is this person worth getting out of my chair for? Is this somebody that actually

for? Is this somebody that actually needs part of my energy? Because there

is a strength and a wisdom in conserving your energy and protecting your peace.

So the next time that happens, I want you to go through that filter and ask yourself, is this person worth getting out of my chair for? because I I know my worth. And please understand that goes

worth. And please understand that goes for anything that they say. Just because

they spew out garbage does not mean we're in the business of picking up trash. Let me say that again. Just

trash. Let me say that again. Just

because they spew out garbage does not mean that you're in the business of picking up trash. You can politely tell them where it should go and it's not

going to be on you. So understand that part of protecting your peace is understanding I know what they're saying is not worth my time. I'm going to take it and set it aside. Personally, what I

do in my my own life is I have a waste basket. All right? I have a trash um bag

basket. All right? I have a trash um bag right next to me in my mind. And if

somebody says something I don't like, rather than me feeling like I have to throw it back to them and I have to pick up that trash, that gross nasty thing that they said and give it right back to them, I just take it and I move it over

and put it in the trash. You can say like at a computer or a laptop, you just get it, you drag it over and you put it in in the recycling bin and then you delete it. You don't have to worry about

delete it. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to carry it. So

it. You don't have to carry it. So

understand, just because they throw out garbage at you does not mean that you're in the business of picking up trash.

When you have to advocate for yourself, part of that mindset is knowing how to go into it. Too often there is a

hesitancy to say what you need to say.

We treat it like it's a I don't know what do they have like the cold plunge or a pool that's filled with cold water.

If you tiptoe into it, it's much worse when you don't say what you need to say right out of the gate and instead you slowly walk into it with these little disclaimers. What I call them. This

disclaimers. What I call them. This

sounds like, hey, um, you know, I've just been I I just feel like I need to say this. I guess it's and maybe I'm

say this. I guess it's and maybe I'm talking out of pocket here, but you ever heard that? You ever said that before

heard that? You ever said that before where you say, "Uh, yeah. I mean,

listen, I'm I'm sorry, but but maybe, you know, I I I'm just feeling more like you are trying to hesitate saying what you need to say, like you want to smooth it over. You want to hedge to make sure

it over. You want to hedge to make sure nobody feels like you're being too direct with it. But when it comes to asserting yourself, when it comes to stating your needs, nobody's going to do

it for you. Remember, you're the one that has to be bold and out in the open with it. So, think of it as that cold

with it. So, think of it as that cold swimming pool. If you walk right into

swimming pool. If you walk right into it, it's going to not feel great. It's

not going to look smooth. It's not going to feel smooth. You either have two choices. You don't say it at all or you

choices. You don't say it at all or you jump right in. When you see people doing that cold plunge, they don't walk right into it. They don't slowly go into it.

into it. They don't slowly go into it.

They put their whole body into it. So, I

want you to get used to that idea of I'm going to put my whole body into this thing. If I have something to say, I'm

thing. If I have something to say, I'm going to say it. I'm not going to feel like I have to apologize for it. I'm not

going to feel like I have to be hesitant and hedged the whole time. If it is something that is on your heart, and it is something that is truly asserting your needs in your life, you have one

chance, one life, and this is it right here for you to be able to state your peace, assert your needs, and say what you need to say. Now, another part of this is often when it comes to standing

up for yourself, it happens in moments where you need to say no to something.

You need to turn something down. Maybe

somebody's invited you to something. You

got offered something and you need to say no, but you don't know how to say it and you're just not sure. You can

advocate that you need to say no. Now,

we're going to talk later in this podcast about how to say no to certain things. How to decline something and

things. How to decline something and still be respectful. Uh how to disagree and still be respectful about it in those little bitty specific scenarios.

Here, this is the point I'm making of that there are times when you have to say something and they need to hear you say no. And there's a difference between

say no. And there's a difference between saying no because after the end of it, using that word because to justify it,

and just saying no. For example, let's say you asked me a question and I just said no.

No versus no because you know I have that thing that we talked about and you know I I got to make sure that I take care of this and it's just been really busy lately and I just been so stressed you know and so well I have that other

thing you know you see how it's much weaker all of a sudden I I've added three more sentences after the no and I've slowly watered down the place that

I need to assert my needs. If I need to say no to something I need to say no. So

eliminate that habit of always saying no because it's just no. And if they need to ask other questions, they're free to ask other questions and you're free to

say no. Again, I want you to feel

say no. Again, I want you to feel empowered. All right, on this idea of

empowered. All right, on this idea of just because they asked me something does not mean I have to give them something. Just because they told me

something. Just because they told me something does not mean I have to have an answer for something. Standing up for yourself means that you are in complete peace with who you are and your presence

in the conversation and you know your worth wherever you are in that conversation or if there should be a conversation at all. So when you need to say no to something, step into that.

Don't go with these little verbal disclaimers. You say no to it. You don't

disclaimers. You say no to it. You don't

say because and add on a verbal um it's like the opposite of a verbal disclaimer. You add in everything

disclaimer. You add in everything afterwards. No, because I'm just feeling

afterwards. No, because I'm just feeling X, Y, and Z. You don't need that. The

word is no. Period. What lots of people like to say and what I support is no is a complete sentence.

>> How can people get better at appearing and becoming confident during conversations?

>> So, rule two of my book is say it with confidence. And the way that I like to

confidence. And the way that I like to implement this into my clients, into people that follow my content is you have to find an assertive voice. People

feel like confidence is something they need to have before they have the conversation. Like I'm working up the

conversation. Like I'm working up the confidence to say this. It's wrong. It's

it's it's the opposite. Confidence is

the outcome. Confidence is what you get after you do the assertive thing. So I

teach confidence is as assertive does.

So when you can use your assertive voice and that is what is going to give you the pieces of confidence that will continue to just be in a loop. The more

assertive things you say, the more confident you feel. The more confident you feel, the easier it is to be assertive. And it is a sense that is

assertive. And it is a sense that is within you of I know where I am. So once

you feel more in control, you automatically sound and feel more confident. A quick little trick that I

confident. A quick little trick that I use, aside from all the ways we could talk about assertive voice, is just using the word confident. Just using the word confident naturally makes you

appear and sound and feel more confident. Like if I'm interviewing for

confident. Like if I'm interviewing for you and you ask me a question, I could say if I if I said, I I believe I could really bring some value to this team versus I'm confident I can bring some

value to this team. all of a sudden the other person um you're going to get your notepad and go, "Man, this person sounds confident." And just using that word

confident." And just using that word attributes that quality to you, not only to the other person, but also to yourself, which is incredibly important.

I want to talk about how to get better at speaking in an assertive way. You

know, you and I touched on this and covered this in our first conversation, and I catch myself sometimes like fluffing up like an email like, "Hey, hope all is well." But, you know, just instead of just getting to the point I think you and I talked about there

because I think sometimes it my I guess my conscious is like, "Oh, are they going to think that I'm not caring or empathetic?" You know, and then many

empathetic?" You know, and then many people do this. So, talk a bit about like why that doesn't matter as much and and and how to become more assertive. It

does matter. It's just it's not about using more words, it's about using the right words. where people get bogged

right words. where people get bogged down is they feel like if they say more things they will be more believable, be

more liked. It it it will reap

more liked. It it it will reap additional even more benefits. But it's

actually just the opposite. If you were to say to me, "Invite me somewhere," and all of a sudden I start a very long text like, "Hey, Doug, thank you so much for

inviting me." like I just, you know, I

inviting me." like I just, you know, I I've just been so busy lately and, you know, I need to go water my cat and feed my house and and do all these uh things and I need to, you know, and I've just

been so overwhelmed. The more you say, the less believable you sound, the more fluff that you add into it. It's this

concept of the more words it takes to tell the truth, the more it sounds like a lie. So when you are responding in

a lie. So when you are responding in emails, let's for let's just put it in written correspondence. You're typing,

written correspondence. You're typing, you're texting, whatever, there's the tendency to give more, but nobody wants to read a long paragraph.

As soon as you get that paragraph text, you go, "Oh gosh." And you and you miss a lot of the key points. Same thing with a long email. There's nothing worse than a long email. All you do is you gave me

a chore. That's what you gave me. You

a chore. That's what you gave me. You

didn't give me an email. You gave me you gave me a chore for me to dissect exactly what you're trying to say. The

problem we run into is we just use a lot of fluff. Use a lot of adverbs. Yeah. I

of fluff. Use a lot of adverbs. Yeah. I

have a I have a friend who he almost always starts a sentence with so basically or so essentially. That's just

fluff that that don't mean anything.

Using words like just, so, essenti essentially literally basically obviously, clearly, all these things that mean nothing. Like you don't you don't need them. you just remove them from your sentences. There's a

difference in how it sounds. If I were to email you, hey, just want to check in versus I wanted to check in. Just

removing that word just makes it less hesitant, less uh like you're not sure of yourself and you don't want to intrude. It's leaning into your

intrude. It's leaning into your conversation, leaning into your word.

So, the best rule is to always say less.

If people have questions, they will ask you. You want to make sure that you are

you. You want to make sure that you are being a well of information, not a waterfall of it.

>> And when it comes to like maybe like texting with your significant other or somebody that you're dating, I would imagine you have to be careful with how direct you are because if somebody's like, "How's your date?" You're like, "It's great." And you don't say anything

"It's great." And you don't say anything else. Your perception might be like,

else. Your perception might be like, "Yeah, I'm just being honest." And

that's what it is. How does it differ when you're like communicating with somebody that you love?

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, it could be not just people you love, but really anyone. I'm

not saying be short. There's a

difference between being short and saying less. Being short is the it's

saying less. Being short is the it's great, good, okay, cool. Like typical

dad texts. That's what have this is how my dad texts. Like I could text him all some cool things that are happening and I'll just get back cool. You know what I mean? Like there are ways that Yeah. If

mean? Like there are ways that Yeah. If

I were to respond to my wife and just go K, like I might as well just signed a death warrant. Like it's just never it's

death warrant. Like it's just never it's not going to do any good. So there is a difference when I say being short versus being concise. And if you want to say

being concise. And if you want to say it's been an awesome day, thank you.

Versus the well, it's a little bit different because in personal relationships, we want to know more. I'd

say there's a difference most of the time between men and women of who want to know all the things and how you're feeling about all the things versus as us guys bros if you're going to text me.

Our text thread's going to be pretty short and pretty boring. But that

doesn't mean that we're not tight and we're not friends and we're not still great on the same page. It just is very different. I find most of our our

different. I find most of our our defaults. But when it comes to personal

defaults. But when it comes to personal communication, it is best policy to be direct and be open and be honest rather

than beginning with all of the fluff. I

don't mean like don't don't tell them how you're feeling. You don't need to that that's wonderful. That's necessary.

Uh my biggest things particularly in the work place is you want to be very careful of overexlaining and oversharing. That's when you can get

oversharing. That's when you can get into trouble. And so when it comes to

into trouble. And so when it comes to remaining assertive and having respect for yourself and and gaining respect from other people, I think what can

happen is you send that assertive email or text to a boss, a colleague, etc., and their response isn't what you thought it would be. And sometimes

people end up maybe wanting to give a little bit more so they can, you know, appease that person. How can people maintain assertiveness throughout

correspondence to be able to maintain a level of uh respect?

>> Yeah, let's put it in a context. Give me

let's do a some type of scenario. Are

you because it changes, you know, between if it's a superior, somebody who's a supervisor above you or somebody who's below you. So, what kind of scenario do you want to take?

>> I would say the common thing, let's just say amongst friends or something.

>> Yeah. And let's what are we talking about? I want to make sure like cuz if

about? I want to make sure like cuz if you want to be assertive in that conversation among friends that's a little bit more it's a little bit more difficult like there are people who are work friends like it just people that

you know but you necessarily wouldn't want to you know go hang out with them after work but you're you're cool and your buddies during the office hours and there are other people that are genuinely you know your people your tribe your village

>> I would say the people that are your tribe your village like you're trying to communicate maybe something that bothers you about that or you're trying to bring up something and you're assertive about

it and they kind of come back and they're they get maybe defensive or say you're wrong and then you're still trying to maintain your your boundary without caving essentially.

>> Yeah. So, a lot of the times what you can do is you give them the permission to disagree.

You're giving them the permission to have another opinion. So, if you respond with it's okay to disagree or you can disagree with me, like that's that's what they need.

They're not expecting that first of all, but when you can use that to your advantage, they say, "Yeah, it's it's cool. You can have a different opinion.

cool. You can have a different opinion.

That's I I'm letting you how know how I feel. I'm not trying to control how you

feel. I'm not trying to control how you feel. I'm just telling you what is going

feel. I'm just telling you what is going to be right for me." So like my dad would say this whenever I would bring, let's say there's something that was

happening that I didn't like and he made a decision on something that I couldn't I couldn't go somewhere. I couldn't, you know, whatever my curfew was. And I was

voicing my disapproval. He would always say, "Well, you don't have to like it.

You just need to understand it." Like,

that was that was the key. And of

course, as a kid, I hated that. But now

I see the wisdom in it because he was allowing me the space to connect with him and disagree to say, "Oh, you don't have to like it. Hey, you don't have to like it, but you just need to understand

it. And I think that's where we get lost

it. And I think that's where we get lost sometimes is this idea of connecting with the other person. Connection.

It's a it's a circuit. It's like a battery. You have to have the positive

battery. You have to have the positive and the negative. I can connect with you and still be upset with you. I can still disagree with you. Like connection

doesn't mean that I approve or I agree and that we're a Hallmark movie. It's

connection is just as important in the negative and the hard and in the difficult. When we talk about difficult

difficult. When we talk about difficult high stress conflict, I'm I'm talking about not just a little bitty everyday arguments. I'm talking about something

arguments. I'm talking about something that's on your plate that's coming up right now and you go, Jefferson, I don't know how to handle this. I I don't know what to do. I'm afraid I'm going to shut down. I'm afraid I'm going to get

down. I'm afraid I'm going to get nervous. I'm going to tell you exactly

nervous. I'm going to tell you exactly what I tell every single one of my clients. You ready? Number one, it is

clients. You ready? Number one, it is not what you say. It is not anything to do with your mouth. It has everything to

do with your nervous system. And the key here is instead of absorbing, you're observing. I'm going to say it

you're observing. I'm going to say it again. Instead of absorbing,

again. Instead of absorbing, you're observing. If you want to handle

you're observing. If you want to handle conflict at a different level of consciousness that you did not know you could handle it, it is going to be the

key of not absorbing what they say, but observing what they say. All right, say it with me. Say it with me wherever you are. It's not absorbing, it's observing.

are. It's not absorbing, it's observing.

All right, what does that mean? I want

you to think, this is just coming to me right now. I want you to think you're in

right now. I want you to think you're in the grocery store and you have your your cart with you and you're going through and you or maybe maybe you're somebody who likes a bag, you know, you you you

have a I'm I'm all for environmentally friendly stuff, too, though it's hard here in Texas. And you have your cart and you just start putting things on the shelf or grabbing things off the shelf

and putting it in your basket that you you don't even want, right? You don't

even want things just start to come in.

You're like, "Yeah, you know what? I'm

going to take their belittling opinion of me. I'm going to put it in my cart.

of me. I'm going to put it in my cart.

You know, I'm going to take their side eye, put it in my cart. I'm going to take that that disrespectful tone and put that in my cart. And you just keep going all the way through aisle by aisle. And then you go to check out,

aisle. And then you go to check out, which is actually a very good word for this. Yeah. You you you mentally check

this. Yeah. You you you mentally check out. And you know what checks in? Your

out. And you know what checks in? Your

nervous system, your emotions, and they just flood you in that moment. And and

in in that point in time, you have absorbed. You have taken on so many

absorbed. You have taken on so many things that there's nothing left for you. You're not observing. You're not

you. You're not observing. You're not

seeing what's happening. You're just in it. You're just in it. And you are

it. You're just in it. And you are helpless to it. It is no longer you who controls the emotions. The emotions are now controlling you. And there's no telling what you're going to say.

There's no that there's no nobody can guess what's going to come out of your mouth or what's going to happen because you're not there. You are checked out.

So, when I tell my clients, hey, when you're in the chair and somebody is the other attorney is asking you questions, there's going to be a time where all of a sudden you're tempted to go in it to

to to go down the spiral and look inside and look at yourself and feel emotions and get heated because you're going to start taking things personally. You're

going to start absorbing what they're saying. No, no, no, no. If you want to

saying. No, no, no, no. If you want to handle this the right way, the proper way in conflict, you have to start observing. What does that mean? That

observing. What does that mean? That

means you're going to approach the conversation at a different level of consciousness that you have before. That

means instead of going, "How how could you say that to me? Oh my gosh, I'm" and you start holding your breath and you start getting flustered and you get nervous or maybe you tear up. is because

you're not seeing it as, huh, I wonder why he's asking me this. I wonder why she's saying that. I wonder where they're going with this. Look for the

intent behind the words.

The intent behind the words. When you

are observing what's happening in some sense, being an attached observer. I've

said this before where you it's like you are sitting in a movie theater with your popcorn and you're watching the conversation take place. And that puts you in a different perspective of looking at the person who's talking to

you and thinking, I wonder why that character is saying this. I wonder what the plot is. I wonder what the narrative is. I I wonder what scene is coming up

is. I I wonder what scene is coming up next. And you see how when you look at

next. And you see how when you look at it that way, you have full control.

You're now the director, the producer, to the screenwriter of exactly what happens next. And then it's just action.

happens next. And then it's just action.

And you're able to be in the state of mind of, hey, I'm observing the conversation. And from there, that gives

conversation. And from there, that gives you a chance to let your body regulate because you're not in it. You are seeing it. You're seeing the conversation.

it. You're seeing the conversation.

Number two, what I teach every one of my clients is something that's at the forefront of my book. The next

conversation, argue less, talk more. And

rule number one, when I say say it with control, and that is let your breath be the first word that you say, I've been talking a little fast here in

this podcast, which is unlike me. I

think I'll tell you why. I drink too much coffee this morning. Too much

coffee. Admittedly, usually I talk pretty slow. All right. Can you hear how

pretty slow. All right. Can you hear how just the way I'm talking now and how I'm slowing down just a little bit might in

a micro percentage also slow you down a little bit. Maybe you know the neural activity

bit. Maybe you know the neural activity in your brain is starting to slow down just a little bit. Maybe you feel a

little bit more relaxed at me speaking a little more slowly. When I put

a breath before my words, it is making sure that I am regulating myself. And even more importantly, I am

myself. And even more importantly, I am showing you I am showing you that I am regulated, that I am in control. And what I'm about

to say, I've chosen.

I've chosen those words makes a very big difference. So when I teach my clients, hey, don't get wrapped up. Don't try and step on somebody's

up. Don't try and step on somebody's question. Don't try to interrupt them.

question. Don't try to interrupt them.

Let them get it out. And then you observe the question. Observe the the interaction. Take a breath

interaction. Take a breath and then choose what you want to say.

You are in complete control of the pace of any conversation. Nobody can make you say anything you don't want to say and nobody can make you say it at a time you don't want to say it. That choice is

yours. That choice is yours. And I

yours. That choice is yours. And I

cannot tell you how many clients I have seen come to find accept and grow in their own power and their own sense of

value and worth of wow I I get to choose if I say anything. And you know what? If

I want to wait 30 seconds before I say something, I can do that.

It's it is a freeing feeling to know, you know, I'm going to think about this.

Let me chew on this question for a second.

Just that alone, the ability to say that says, "Oh, no, no. I'm I'm operating at a different level you don't know about.

No, I'm I'm not who you thought I was. I

know exactly what I'm doing. I'm going

to choose my words and I'm going to show you that what I'm about to say is something that I absolutely mean and I'm saying with intention, right? Can you

feel the difference? Say, what kind of breath are we talking about? I've run

through this breath before. It's always

good to do it because it's something that is good for me, too. Is a

conversational breath. And what it does, it's based on a physiological sigh, which is a double Oh, that kind of sounded weird. Double inhalation.

sounded weird. Double inhalation.

and double inhalation. So, you're

breathing, you're inhaling twice. All

right? So, ready with me? We're going to breathe through your nose. Wherever you

are, just do it. Don't worry about it.

People might look at you. Don't worry.

Ready? We're going to breathe in through your nose about two to three seconds.

One more at the top and then let out through your nose.

My guess is you're starting to come down a little bit. Maybe your shoulders relaxed a little bit. is the feeling that mimics a sigh. When you use that kind of breath, and I promise you, you

continue to do it while I'm talking right now. You'll see that you get

right now. You'll see that you get really good at it. You can do it any time. The most crucial part for me is

time. The most crucial part for me is when I teach my clients to do it is before they answer the question. Just

take two seconds or one second. What we

like to say here in the South is just say one Mississippi. In other words, in in your head, you're going to go Mississippi.

Like, well, you can use your own name if you have a long name. You know, just whatever it is, it's it's to get you in the mindset of taking a beat, a moment, take that breath, and choose what you

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now back to the episode. And number

three, the third thing that I teach every single one of my clients is to use less words. Say less. Now, in the legal

less words. Say less. Now, in the legal context, if my witness starts to give a very long answer, you know what happens?

Every Why do I say it like that?

Happens.

What happens is I guarantee them that the opposing attorney is now going to slice up that long answer they just gave and turn that into five more questions, 10 more

questions. The shorter the answer, the

questions. The shorter the answer, the stronger, more clear it is. every single

time. If I give you an answer that is short and concise, you can do nothing with it. You can do nothing with it.

with it. You can do nothing with it.

Hear the difference. So, I might have a client who I've trained and we we practice a lot. And when she might take a breath and answer a question and go,

"No."

"No." And that's it. That's the only answer.

What What can the other attorney do?

Nothing. They can't do anything with it.

They can only go to their next question.

But I've also had it despite my training and teaching where somebody goes, you know, I'm not sure, you know, that it was just such a hectic day and you know, I forgot to go pick up the eggs

and my and my dog was sick and you know, he just it just, you know, peanut butter messes up his system and I just find that you're going and I'm going, "Oh my gosh, what is happening?" So that

happens. That happens because people are

happens. That happens because people are are human, right? So we have to take a break and I go, "What what are we doing?

Come on, get back in it with me. So, you

see the difference in if somebody's giving a very long answer, some practical things happen. One is I'm g the witness is giving more information than is needed, right? Unnecessary

information, which means the other person, let's put this in everyday application. Everyday people are going

application. Everyday people are going to get confused as to what the answer is. They're going to fill in their own

is. They're going to fill in their own assumptions of why you're not answering it directly. They're going to hear that

it directly. They're going to hear that there's just more words which just automatically leads to the possibility of more confusion and more

miscommunication. We don't want that. We

miscommunication. We don't want that. We

want short concise. So I like to say it when I when I teach is that if I ask you do you have the time? Do you know what time it is?

That means I'm going to ask you to stop and ask that question in your mind. Do I

know what time it is? What am I asking?

Do you know what time it is? And if you give me the time, oh, it's um 8:03.

That's the wrong answer. That's the

wrong answer. If I say, "Do you know the time?" The answer is yes, I do. It's

time?" The answer is yes, I do. It's

that detailed. It is that detailed because in my world, it has to be that detailed. You have to be and in everyday

detailed. You have to be and in everyday conversation those high stake high emotions just when everything is on the the table everything's on the line every

little word of clarity matters a great deal and I have to make sure that you're prepared. So when you condense your

prepared. So when you condense your words into something that is very short, very concise, the longer of an answer you give, the more opportunity there is

for miscommunication. more opportunity

for miscommunication. more opportunity there is for somebody to take your answer and twist it. Here's an example.

Have you ever been in a text argument with somebody? I have. I know you have.

with somebody? I have. I know you have.

And it they just sent you something and you're like, "Oh, really?" And you just start texting on your phone, just going after it. And you write a paragraph. I'm

after it. And you write a paragraph. I'm

talking you just you hit them so good and it's perfect and you're it's it's this is exactly how I feel. and you send

it and they send a text that doesn't even address anything that you said at all. Or maybe they addressed one part

all. Or maybe they addressed one part that they could defend and like, but they ignored all the rest. Is that same principle, you're giving someone way too much to take and to twist. So, if you

want to handle high conflict, like I teach every one of my clients, you have to keep your answers as short as possible. answer their question and only

possible. answer their question and only their question. All right. Okay. Hey,

their question. All right. Okay. Hey,

look. You You're ready. You're ready. I

know we we maybe we're going to need to talk about this. Let's go grab some coffee. Make sure you get some snacks.

coffee. Make sure you get some snacks.

Feel good. We're about to go into this deposition room together and you're going to do awesome. I promise. What did

we talk about today when it comes to high stakes conversation? Number one,

observe. Don't absorb.

Observe. Don't absorb. Number two, use your breath as the first word that you say. Slow it

down and choose your words. Be

intentional with them. Make sure that you are operating on your time frame, not somebody else's. And number three, say less. Shorten your answers. When you

say less. Shorten your answers. When you

give way too much, you allow the opportunity for somebody to grab onto it pieces and say things you didn't mean.

You're giving them more to twist. you're

giving them more to twist. It's like

giving somebody a long piece of rope.

They they're able to put a bunch of knots in it. But if you just give them a little bit of rope, it maybe it's not even enough to do a a to tie their shoe with, right? It's a big difference. You

with, right? It's a big difference. You

want to make sure that you're very short and concise. Man, my um examples today

and concise. Man, my um examples today are all over the place. We talked about the grocery store. We talked about shoelaces. Man, what a what a day. What

shoelaces. Man, what a what a day. What

an episode. Playing nice gets you steamrololled. What do I mean by that?

steamrololled. What do I mean by that?

You know what it's like to be the person that goes, "Oh, no, no. It's fine. It's

fine. No, no, no. Really, no. I it's

it's it's just fine. Don't worry." When

somebody gives you an extra assignment, your boss gives you something that you did not want to do. Or somebody says, "Oh, hey, uh, can you grab that?" And

you're like, "Oh, yeah, sure. I guess,

oh, that's fine. Oh, hey, do you have time to go pick up my whatever?" And you really don't. But you go, "Um, yeah,

really don't. But you go, "Um, yeah, yeah, why not? You know, I I can definitely do that." And you just what you people please constantly you are just being nice to everybody and

everybody says you know what that so and so they're so nice they're just so nice and then they go on about their day and you know what they do they use you

whether you love them whether you find them to be a stranger they still in some sense you're giving a part of yourself away I'm not saying don't be of service I'm absolutely saying have a servant's

heart I'm not saying that you should be less less of yourself? Not at all. What

we're going to be doing and what you're going to learn at the end of today's episode is how to feel more of yourself all the more. There's a there's a way to be able to blend these to understand

these to make sure that you're not in this sitting in this driver's seat and all you see out the the the front windshield is just you have to play nice

wherever you go because in reality, you're not going to feel safe. nice gets

you steamrolled. Have you ever been the person who always goes out of their way?

Always the one that seems to go the extra mile. You always are the person

extra mile. You always are the person that what? Inconveniences yourself.

that what? Inconveniences yourself.

You inconvenience yourself to where people go, you know what? I don't really want to do it. Ask so and so. They'll do

it. They always say yes. Are you nodding your head right now? Might be. Or maybe

you know somebody who is nice gets you steamrolled. Why? Because nice is

steamrolled. Why? Because nice is surface. That leads us to number two.

surface. That leads us to number two.

>> What about tonality?

Um specifically uh raising your voice for assertion or lowering it almost to get them to lean in to pay attention. Is that any

part of your belief system and influence or persuasion in a conversation?

>> Yeah, the the idea is you want to lower your voice. I'm not I'm not not talking

your voice. I'm not I'm not not talking really low. It's just you want to make

really low. It's just you want to make sure it's always a downward inflection when you want to make statements that are foundational, statements that are concrete, statements that are this is is

my value or my boundary. Um when you have an upward inflection, it makes it sound like you're always asking a question. Like if I was going to ask you

question. Like if I was going to ask you say pass the salt, I wouldn't say can you pass the salt as if like I doubt your ability to do it or as if you don't know what salt is. It's the downward

inflection. Can you pass the salt? So,

inflection. Can you pass the salt? So,

you want to make sure that you have a lower register instead of something that's really high. Uh, same thing for like music. You take for example um if

like music. You take for example um if you are always listening to fast-paced music, it it encourages aggravation. It

encourages anxiety to some extent. Trust

me, I like all kinds of music. But my

point is if you start to versus if you listen to something that's more easily listening, it will slow down your brain waves. It slows down your entire uh

waves. It slows down your entire uh feeling of how you're reacting. So when

you are able to use a voice that is lower in tone, it sounds a lot more in control. There's a difference if I were

control. There's a difference if I were to say, for example, um, I already told you I'm not going to

do that versus I already told you I'm not going to do that. Like one sounds like it's grasping for control and it's

not in control. The other says, I am fully in control of this moment.

>> Bro, you made me just think of my dad.

My dad uh was a yeller when I was a young man. So he used his voice the

young man. So he used his voice the worst possible way, right? Aggravation,

stress anxiety he could take a situation that was a two and make it a 22 in like a second.

However, as my dad got older, one of the things I noticed about my father, when I had a major life problem, like a big big one, you know, like one of those once every eight or nine years

I'm in big trouble type things, and I would call my dad, he would slow down the conversation. his

voice would get deeper and there was this just his pacing and tonality calmed me down multiple notches. So much

so that to this day, my father's passed away that I have imaginary conversations with my dad when I'm under stress

where I am listening and mirroring that specific tonality of his where he slowed it down and calmed it down and gave me a sense of peace about the conversation to

the extent that it was so influential on me that I will have these conversations with him even though he's not here because it calms me down. That's how

powerful what you're Yeah. It's It's how powerful what you're suggesting is that when your children come to you under stress or in trouble, >> I've I've worked so hard in those

specific moments of just listening to them >> and slowing it down a little bit, >> getting a little deeper in my register.

>> Go ahead. You were going to say >> No, I was going to say you're you're you're spot on and I I love that. I

think that is so I mean he was your that was the anchor in the conversation. I

find that same way with the kids. Like I

we never for the parents that are listening, you you never you always want to be the person that your kids run to for help, you know, when when they make

the mistakes and if you always yell at them and uh raise your voice, they're not going to come to you. But when you can be a safe space and say slowly,

"Thank you for coming to me with this."

you know, that's going to just encourage that dialogue. The slowing down is

that dialogue. The slowing down is there's a lot of wisdom in that.

>> There is, brother, when I'm in a conversation that I feel like I'm um it's getting away from me. Let's say

that. That could be a sales negotiation.

It could be a conversation with a friend, you name it. Um I feel like in my case, most of the time it's speeding up faster than I want it to. You talk

about this in rule one. Number six is control the pace. And as I listen to you, I mean, you're very cognizant even of your pace and the way that you communicate. Even on the show today and

communicate. Even on the show today and even in your content, you do. You're

actually a little faster when you do the content from your car than you are right now on the show. You're even a pace slower today than you are in your car.

So, I watch that like tonality and pacing. Yeah. Let's talk about that in a

pacing. Yeah. Let's talk about that in a conversation cuz with my when emotions run high often times for me I feel like the conversation is speeding up where my

my uh intellect is now not quite as sharp as my emotions are running if that makes any sense. So what are strategies to control the pace and what does that even mean?

>> Yeah, I love that you picked up on that.

the anytime you are getting that fight or flight and I know all of your listeners highly educated they know fight or flight whenever you're getting emotionally flooded like that it is that's why you're having trouble finding

your thoughts and connecting things and that's why the quicker you get maybe you've felt it where you you're either nervous same thing when you're really mad you might stammer and you might go like no no no that that's not and you're

having trouble getting words out it's because you're just flooded your emotions are there you're logical and analytical side is not. And so what I teach every one of my clients before

they go cross-examination and I'm just offering them up to the wolves is a constant reminder of you control the pace, not them. That means no matter how

fast somebody is peppering you with questions, the conversation cannot happen any faster than you respond. So,

whenever they ask you a question and you give a rapid fire answer back or worse, you start to step over their question because you already see where it's going, bad things happen. You say things

you don't mean. You say things that are not fully thought out. That's why even in romantic relationships, all of a sudden you blurt something out and you go, "Oh, I that's oh man, that's not what I mean." And you you already knew as soon as it came out of your mouth,

you put your foot in your mouth and you messed up. It's because you weren't

messed up. It's because you weren't controlling the pace. That means you need to slow down your words and that you need to leave space between what they said and how you're going and when

you're going to respond. There's a

difference if you were to ask me if if you said, "Hey, Jefferson, how was your day?" And I said, "Good. It was

your day?" And I said, "Good. It was

real good." I mean, it was it was it was really good. Thanks. Versus, "Hey,

really good. Thanks. Versus, "Hey,

Jefferson, how's your day?" And I said, "It was good. It was a good day." Like

you can just hear the difference in which one listened to the question, which one thought about the answer, which one makes the other person feel acknowledged or heard. Same thing with

that's why rule number one is say with control. If you go down and let's say

control. If you go down and let's say you're you're at work and all of a sudden you go, "What's wrong? What

happened? What what's going on?" and you all you're sensing and telling the other person is you're grasping for control versus you come in take a breath and

then you're saying all right what happened give it to me like people are looking like we said for those emotional anchors so what I teach is let your breath be the first word that you say

that's how you set the pace of a conversation so where your first word would be put a breath in its place and what's that going to do

is keep your analytical side engaged and to where you do not allow yourself emotionally to get emotionally flooded.

And the benefit second benefit is neither does the other person because now you are also injecting the time and forcing them to slow down. If you

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right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of the Jefferson Fischer podcast, click right here and I'll meet you