Smartest Way To Use AI: Powerful Words, Tools & Next Revolution | Sowmay Jain | FO439 Raj Shamani

opportunities.

So messaging app a billions of user base is a very good opportunity WhatsApp or telegram very human oriented with less AI tell me things are incredibly

fascinating around the world there's one startup they charge people after they die what they say okay you died out of cancer right we will put you in a refrigerator

we will make you I escaped >> AI there's like a big market in robotics in China and even other places I think where it's heading is a bit u

dangerous territory in terms of like extinction event of humans very high possibility do you feel bias there's always a biases I think in in AI because it's trained on

some data and then every data will have some kind of biases you can't have like a clean AI >> what does a good prompt look like. So

depends how better you are conveying it in your words.

One thing that works best when you really ask AI to think hard, it does think hard like go in depth, think hard, use these words. So if you use these words, it actually gives you better answers. Yeah, just right answer.

answers. Yeah, just right answer.

Hey, so can you issue an invoice to Rajamani for receiving 50,000 and scheduleuler every 9:00 p.m. if you

haven't replied to the email? Yeah. PDF

and this is my invoice directly invoice on the fly. I'm just talking to you on the fly.

You're talking about Elon. You love him.

>> Yep.

>> His goals are very not normal. Going to

Mars goal. If you are aiming for stars, you

goal. If you are aiming for stars, you end up being on the moon. So I think that's a very big trait of him.

>> In your journey of building products and actually attracting so many users, what make people stick to product?

episode guest Jen founder of Upsurge Labs Bindi AI or co-founder of Instadrypto investment future economy found

according to Bitcoin execute workflows systemf

references per week date fix. If you're curious to see how AI can actually do things for you, check out the link in the description.

If somebody's watching this today, okay, >> but AI has become a buzz word and now it's reality also.

So all the software we are using today is going to go like very manual built for humans the

interfaces. So

interfaces. So apps even messaging app I think messaging app is a very big opportunity WhatsApp or telegram be very human oriented with less AI. So something we

are also adding into bindi backroom. So

messaging app a billions of user base is a very good opportunity.

Productivity apps you don't have to work. I don't know why after an AI

work. I don't know why after an AI people will work. People see it like but I see it more positively. You really

don't have to work. You can just have fun because the only thing we need to involve like we are connecting right now right that's only thing as a human we need to do rest

all of the things is already handled under the hood by some AI systems give me an example like what give me use cases use productivity

that person can make a lot of money.

>> One of the biggest problem right now is context like try to understand my I'm about to have a loss in some of my financial assets at

let's say $2,000 and I talk to my brother key price >> so he will not take it as like uh answer okay acknowledged he will be like oh

he will have some kind of emotions to attached to that same stuff right so AI problem. I think context building anyone

problem. I think context building anyone can actually add it. The AI can understand us more better.

GPD come back at me. That would be a very big change. I think

is like it will suggest you some places to go.

So now this is a this is what lacking in the AI but AI systems are not coming back at us. Now this is a very good one like

us. Now this is a very good one like they will talk to us and it reduces my workload more because I'm not even thinking to talk to AI now they they are coming back and actually solving my problem.

>> Suggestive >> suggestive so instead of human to AI it's AI to human and I'm just a confirmation yes or no. So that's one

which you feel is incredible opportunity productivity sort of app and next that is one yeah that is one opportunity

right now >> very big opportunity >> okay um >> what's the second second opportunity I mean there's multiple industry and a lot of opportunity but I will say if you can

make work invisible work invisible like all these thing needs to not be there.

So because all these are very logical, very deterministic, AI should be able to handle it. All they need to know is my

handle it. All they need to know is my intent and they should just get the work done. So if if there 10 people I'm

done. So if if there 10 people I'm talking to, AI should know just this skill. These two people are very

skill. These two people are very important. just take care of them

important. just take care of them better, coordinate better and systems. I mean, internet as a whole is going to

be zombie land because Obsidian Obsidian founder Obsidian is a very popular notemaking app. that

founder was replying to the tweet done by my bot and I read like oh that some guy in San Francisco who leads this project is replying to a uh >> a bot

>> yeah and I and I was confused like okay this is a very good example like key slowly slowly how do I believe I should need to coordinate with an AI how why do I convince other person on internet so

the internet will just become a consumption layer I will just go there to acquire information but not to converse because I don't know

So it's a and I had seen his firstand already two months back we are underestimating like how dramatically the world is changing

but is there some way where people can do it or there is no way which you can think about So I think every app that exist will

have a revamp.

So simplify end users and just change it and it's going to have value like lot of apps we are just doing a lot of

manual work which doesn't exist and I think one more thing is like um uh novel tweeted this some months back that the

promise of AI is no interface like that's when actually AI system. So

>> explain.

>> So be I mean if you want to book a car, you go to Uber. If you want to order food, you go to Zamato.

>> Or you want to book a flight, you go to make my trip.

>> Uh you don't need this division. You

need a one uh system which we call AI system or AI assistant or whichever whatever we call >> whatever you call it something XYZ in your in your phone. There's one app called XYZ and then you just tell that

to the app >> and it will take care of everything and um let's go one more step ahead. It

doesn't even I think mobile will change itself. So

itself. So design everything is concentrated in the top of the iPhone everything is concentrated in top layer.

They are they are moving towards a miniature version of devices. You will not need like a book phone. Everything is

concentrated here. Could be attached to here. Could be anything. I don't know.

here. Could be anything. I don't know.

>> So it will not even me using a phone. It

just stays with me and figuring out things around me.

>> Yeah. That Jio launched that glasses.

>> Yeah, glasses are a very good example like uh I'm fascinated.

>> Glasses, geo glasses, all that they've launched.

>> Yeah, they haven't gotten to that stage yet that I will use on a day-to-day basis, but it have a real chance of disruption. Yeah, they're using I saw

disruption. Yeah, they're using I saw this video recently building and that will give you history of it. So you can use it as your let's

of it. So you can use it as your let's say in air inear assistant fulltime.

>> Totally. Yeah. I just tried it one week back. The newest uh Meta glasses

back. The newest uh Meta glasses >> and u it doesn't even have a voice. It

actually transfer information transfer.

So I'm seeing like all these things coming out like so we're dramatically underestimating where we are heading. I

think it's going to be very cyborg kind of world >> and it's going to happen.

>> It's going to happen. If we don't do it someone else will do it. So why not us?

>> So there okay again we're back to the same question opportunity.

>> I think the next good opportunity could be robots.

>> What do you mean? M for example what if this is powered by some AI system I'm moving here >> yeah it comes to me immediately

>> but it's not only about that if I just went down to let's say it should not come to me now if it's just a deterministic program it will do

that too but it needs to have some kind of consciousness inside it >> some kind of intelligence >> yeah some kind of intelligence and possible so it will move around with me this is just a An example maybe a lamp

Pixar kind of lamp sitting around me.

>> So and these are a very good one because uh uh this is a good opportunity. I

personally want to enter into this but it's a very high turnaround. You can't

just move things around so fast robotics right >> but if dedicated time I will suggest to get into the intersection of robotics and AI because that's when the real

change will happen for us software but when all of the things around us are having some consciousness >> via this artificial intelligence they

are moving around and they're kind of coordinating with you in some lights >> by the We also have a robotic team in like

Bangalore. The lamp actually reacts to

Bangalore. The lamp actually reacts to you. You say it like hey I had an

you. You say it like hey I had an accident yesterday and uh it will get depressed. It will show emotion via just

depressed. It will show emotion via just eyes. You you try to be angry it will

eyes. You you try to be angry it will get angry too. It have ears moving like this like a pat you know. So this um u uh these are some examples like how how

world around us is going to change software physically. But I think when it

software physically. But I think when it comes to the physical form that's when we will feel it a lot.

>> True. So that's one or examples. I like

this example.

>> Okay.

>> Give me more examples like this.

>> Intersection of >> robotics and AI.

>> Uh yeah this is one but intersection of bio and AI.

>> Explain.

>> Basically bioengineering your body. So

>> what do you mean by that?

>> So already crisper tech you can change genes in you. M so

you want to change the color of your eyes maybe I don't know if it's possible when you're adult but when you're kid you can change the color of ice this is one like very real use cases and it's

very pos it's technically possible if someone is disease readen like let's say high chances they have some genes which can cause cancer now you can edit those

genes via this crisper tech and AI is actually advancing it recently I read about it Like so AI has created its own sequence of

genome genomic sequence um it's complicated but okay in simple terms so species also evolved like monkeys

apps and then a human there's like evolution that happened right AI species with a whole sequence of genes and now this opens up a lot of like

you're kind of creating a new species right you So uh I mean the positive and negatives are many but uh very big field because AI up her aspect of your life is

automated by AI digitally physically then the only thing that left is you how you maintain your body and it also linked to longevity now like

>> how you can live longer by fixing um because dying is not natural you die because one of your organs stop working like most cases if it's not sudden death

you die because your one organs failed and other organs like follow the root right >> m >> now if you find a system bioengineering your system where you can let that organ

sustain well basically you can't die anywhere so uh again many people are prediction that the person who's going to live 5,000 years is already born >> uh I don't know I mean maybe we will not

live long enough to see that >> but it's a very bold prediction >> right >> there's one startup which is very funny Like they charge people after they die

what they say okay you died out of some let's say cancer right we will put you in a refrigerator cell will not deplete now

we will make you alive and I went to this um uh uh event in Dubai. uh even Brian Johnson came to

Dubai. uh even Brian Johnson came to that this was a NAS daily event and uh there was the startup pitching and people and I found like this is such a I

don't know it's a very good money-m process like you are selling after you die it doesn't matter right you don't need money now like you're going to die you don't need money why not just keep

pay them and put me in a rental cube >> and just uh so there's lot >> that's tech >> yeah that's tech I mean that was crazy death tech startups. That's

>> what are the more f Okay, let's let's do this.

>> Tell me two or three more things that that is incredibly fascinating around the world and you have seen like death tech is very

>> I've never heard of this. I'm hearing it for the first time.

>> I mean crazy crazy startups can't immediately think maybe it will come into the conversation. Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> All right.

Okay. Because you're talking about AI and AI will replace a lot of things,

right? Let's figure out

right? Let's figure out that's your startup dayto-day life.

Can we do that?

>> Yeah, we can totally do that. I mean,

our moto is to like make work invisible.

>> Lovely.

simple language. What does your start and it will respond you in some kind of text.

>> It will not do that for you. What bindi

do is it execute that for you. So for

example JDP can you draft me an email?

It will draft you an email and then you will copy paste in Gmail and send it.

What happens on bindi? You ask it to do it. It will actually send the email via

it. It will actually send the email via Gmail account. Massive

Gmail account. Massive prompting prompting skills needs to be good because AI doesn't understand you well. So

well. So it will not the outcomes will be not right but it will do it. M

>> so Gmail but it could be anything um can you get the price of I don't know HDFC bank and send that price to my broker and then ask him what

would be the and then have a have a check whenever he respond you back after 2 hours remind me back now it's a chaining of multiple actions it will

first go to perplexity or Google to get the price then ask your broker should I buy or not and then set a reminder after 2 hours I need to check if that your

investment person has like gotten back at you or not and when it get back and you can so these are the workflows which are not possible in tech with bindi you can do all this it it actually execute on your behalf

>> okay so let's let's make use cases by use cases I love this I'm going to make sure that by the end of this podcastes right one of the first use cases says

let's see right how what is my I'm giving you a problem so problem is Mhm.

Cheapest flight.

Cheapest flight.

Cheapest platform clear to end travel bookings and

coupons are particularly specifically all of this end to end. How can I make a workflow or a travel agent type flow?

>> Yeah, it's mostly words basically.

like you're adding words to word, sentence to sentence as descriptive as possible.

In fact, it can also move ahead and give you an itinary when you go there.

It will plan out all based on your prompt how well you are defining it. I

mean inputs are so better like the only place it I think the current AI systems in general fails is the financial transactions because the platforms doesn't open up their APIs to

make the payments that's also solving but I think majority of the problem it will actually build it. Uh the real key here is how better you can talk to AI how descriptive you are when you talk.

>> How do we do that? Let's say bindi. Can

you can we get a laptop and do it? Yeah,

I mean uh it's it's sim UX wise it's similar like GPD. Can we open it right now and write a prompt?

>> Should we do it? It'll be incredible.

People will love it. Yeah.

>> Okay. Can you get give me my expert book? So I want to plan a travel. Let's

book? So I want to plan a travel. Let's

start with some work first.

>> Okay. You want to start with some work?

>> Yeah. Tell me what you want to do.

Okay, let's say It's okay every morning so that okay can you check out my email inbox

and archive all the All the emails with subject starting with let's say invitations

>> h >> invit these are like your calendar invite >> okay >> you know so you probably don't want those things in your inbox because it's already you can see in calendar >> okay

>> first thing it will just ask you to connect the Gmail >> so you double tap it connect and then it will check your inbox and then it will actually archive it. Simple. Done. But

it checked the email. There is no email.

What I can do? I can ask it to send an email to hey, can you send a random email to this

email? Um uh in the subject start it

email? Um uh in the subject start it with title invitations. Uh and send send it three emails to this email in the screenshot. So it's quite smooth in that

screenshot. So it's quite smooth in that terms. You can just vocally talk and it will do. So every task

will do. So every task I'm just talking to it. I'm not opening Gmail. I'm not opening uh our admin

Gmail. I'm not opening uh our admin panel to add your subscription.

>> Everything is all automated and sent. So try again.

sent. So try again.

So this system at okay it found your the email that I sent it send >> and it will archive. So now this is a process where you can it will ask

because it's a but you can also go yolo mode and it will actually not ask on the fly. Okay archived.

fly. Okay archived.

Now if you go to the Gmail, >> it had already you received an email.

You will see a blank inbox but uh you received an email in archive too.

>> Yeah.

>> Done.

>> Nice. Okay. So irrelevant archive. Yeah.

I mean depends invitations. My calendar

is full and I receive like 40 emails a day. So I was like okay archive

day. So I was like okay archive everything. I don't want to see those

everything. I don't want to see those emails. I will check my calendar

emails. I will check my calendar directly. You can say anything with

directly. You can say anything with marketing anything. So this is my

marketing anything. So this is my workflow but uh you can have your own workflow.

>> Yeah.

>> So AI can work as a filtering here system here.

>> Okay. Give me another use case workflow.

May >> I want to travel to Dubai >> and

my budget is one lakh rupees.

Can you make sure to plan an eating for the same with flights and hotels included

also suggest some cafes nearby hotel. I

love downtown.

>> Mhm. and um

go in depth and now one thing that works best I mean it's sounds very funny but when you really ask AI to think hard it does think hard like go in depth think

hard use these words think hard and find the go extra length you know >> so if you use these words it actually gives you better answers >> yeah it gives better answer which is um

which is I mean I think that's how They're trained. They use these words to

They're trained. They use these words to actually expedite their um like go extra length to actually do the research.

Don't stop. I do a lot of these things when >> and this one is built on tragedies like what's so we use a multiple system. Um

um >> what is LLM?

>> So set for some cloud set for for some element and chat GDP for background tasks. Okay. So once the chat happens

tasks. Okay. So once the chat happens there's a lot of background processing happens. So cloud and GPD use

happens. So cloud and GPD use >> it would do something. My only worry is like um uh the financial transactions are not that um

>> proper. So I read everything Google

>> proper. So I read everything Google flights, Google hotels, Google maps, Gemini prosequential thinking for thinking hard perplexity.

>> So so it's showing me scan.

>> Now you can just enter to confirm or you can just switch on the yolo mode from it. I'll ask you next. So it's thinking

it. I'll ask you next. So it's thinking hard now.

>> Okay. City Dubai from Delhi outbound >> return date.

>> Yeah. One of the fascinating things when it does don't do the job right. You just

actually go anger angry like hey you are so dumb. Why didn't you ask me the dates

so dumb. Why didn't you ask me the dates I'm going to go? And it it actually next time it think more better. I mean the navigation of the thinking gets better.

Oh so now this is the one-off. You can even ask it like give more prompt like hey don't only search in one direction maybe also try other places it's also searching maps for the cafes because I

mentioned like you can you also search for the cafes >> but why is it asking me to confirm again again >> yeah I think you need to check something maybe you this works when you start the chat I did it I switched it in between

right so when you start the chat uh you need to switch it otherwise the chat only goes into normal mode >> got it with a newer prompt then it'll be yellow >> yeah it will be yellow so you need to

set it up at the start but it's um quite quite nice and now we can see the system at scale when it's system at scale you don't why I even need to check all this

fascinating but at the end I will just do it and I will wait for mobile when you put it and you forget it

this is the best flight at this time and like everything so like you don't >> let's say forget this and let's say a small business owner wants to create

bills okay here's a here's a here's a problem Mhm.

XYZ PDF.

>> Can we do this?

>> Totally. Very easy.

Hey, so can you issue an invoice to Raj Shamani uh and reply to the Rabau email for receiving

50,000 rupees and set up a uh scheduleuler every 9:00 p.m. uh if the if if if the if you haven't replied to the email

um and um stop the scheduleuler once he replied. So keep reminding him like this

replied. So keep reminding him like this this is the invoice and is to be paid and send an email to uh the above email that that you had sent the random emails

to issue the invoice make it fancy um make it clear uh if you are confused stop ask me don't make any dumb decisions >> okay

let's see >> it's going to do it's I'm totally like it's I think this is one of the easiest I was still confused about this because like five apps But it still did it >> which is quite nice.

So it asking me question because I ask you to actually you can take your call.

You know me better. Okay.

Okay. It added an invoice gen agent.

>> Creating an invoice and then it will just uh simply send it.

So another best part when there is an error it actually changes the trajectory let's try this now >> now and this is good because that's how

human operate they make mistake and then they get better.

>> So um this is one of the example it actually did the job but there's a error beforehand. It also set up a

beforehand. It also set up a scheduleuler every 9 p.m. It's going to send you an email reply to that test email and remind you every day >> and send it to that email that I

mentioned before. Let's see if you

mentioned before. Let's see if you received the email.

Okay received.

Done.

It doesn't have the PDF attachment, but hey, did you send the PDF attachment? I

don't think you have.

But done.

We have it.

>> Yeah. Done.

>> So, yeah. PDF.

And this is my invoice.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, I can ask you to do more stuff at the fast.

>> Yeah. But this is like the easiest >> easiest fast and quick. I've gotten it directly invoice just on the phone >> on the fly. I'm just talking to you and

I can on the fly dump the voice. So this

this systems at scale is going to make the whole layer of business and work work invisible. In other words, you

work invisible. In other words, you don't need to work now. There would be system which are listening you and me all the time. And I said okay invoice it already did.

>> Isn't it scary?

>> It's scary but it's a new world. We got

to uh that's why I'm saying we underestimating the way the world is changing in a complete like it's dramatically very changing and uh it's going to be way different than how

internet changed the world.

I think one of the biggest use case of this industry is going to be dating.

>> Okay. How tell me AI dating.

>> So now you don't basically people are swipe fatigue like they have to swipe a lot right?

Now this AI systems can you can find you one date per week >> and you can go on that per week date and you haven't even went through the

filtering process. AI

filtering process. AI they know you and the AI systems are talking to other AI systems and they figured out okay this could be the right

match and they matched us and we went out. So this is a big case and and it

out. So this is a big case and and it can make sure you don't need to like swipe hundreds of profile. You can just have one date per week and just go and figure out and give me feedback. Based

on the feedback the system will evolve more and then it can find much better.

So this is a very big industry I think and it's it's it's very very very like very visible this is going to happen. Meta did launch some like a

happen. Meta did launch some like a pilot app around this this week.

>> So something's going to change. So

dating so somebody who knows you will be able to find someone >> will be exactly compatible to you.

>> Totally. So it's going to optimize that process.

>> But isn't that dating that you usually end up falling for someone who's not compatible?

>> I mean ideally that's how it should be.

But I think the world is a bit different >> or maybe when you go for compatible date then you tell your AI >> key bro this didn't work because of this this I didn't find it exciting. find me

something exciting and then >> and this matches you extremely opposite.

>> Yeah. And next week it will evolve and you get something. So it's going to optimize that process.

>> Um and it's a I think it's a very big industry. Do you think

industry. Do you think because artificial intimacy will become so high possibility? High possibility

because um um because humans are I mean people want convenience

>> and uh when this AI systems understands you so better then they will make sure you stay happy or you are satisfied properly.

>> Yeah. and with robotics and there's like a big market in robotics around this like building humanoids and a lot of things in China and even other places and with consciousness in that it's I

think where it's heading is a also a bit um dangerous territory in terms of like extinction event of humans very high possibility I mean people are worried about this that it can extend human because it will dilute the human

connection as well you are mostly talking to AI persona who understands you best >> don't you think then the biggest businesses will be built community

ultimately depends how what we want. I

mean there will be a good fraction of people who want this >> like who want to um be more connected with humans but a big big population is

also like like they don't care they don't care so um um but yeah I mean biology have its way to like smoke out the people who are not contributing to

the species so the people who are actually more connected end up reproducing more and the people who are art will end their legacy. So biology

have its way to like >> like fine-tune anything. So

>> fair. What are the other use cases? AI

disruption dating you said entrepreneurs AI use case I mean on the work and it's mostly automation like there things are automated um I think only two kinds of

job as a human will be left one is you are curious about something >> so you think and instruct your AI systems >> or you are creative so you ask AI to create some kind of image some kind of

movie for or some kind of aesthetically looking better stuff. So we as a human going to

better stuff. So we as a human going to do just two things and I don't think we're going to work. So

>> and then who's going to consume these things? Us humans. But then

things? Us humans. But then

like why do you want to create when you know but um I mean when I say create it's not frame by frame I'm just giving it an

intent key I'm feeling very excited today show me something related I'm feeling very depressed show me something motivating so intent So, it's going to be >> But it's going to be AI generated,

right?

>> It's But you can't tell the difference between AI and human. I'm okay with Okay. How will people earn money? How

Okay. How will people earn money? How

will people connect with each other?

>> That's another topic. But I think uh very good topic. No, very good topic in a way. Like I also think the the concept

a way. Like I also think the the concept money as a concept might also not exist.

>> Um Okay. So

>> no no I'm truly so the only limiting factor for AI is energy. We have enough solar energy to actually power all of the AI and when everything is automated around us government will have to come

up with some kind of universal like energy allocation >> and AI system running for automating my stuff. So now think about it like

stuff. So now think about it like you will plan out a two months or 3 months and four months. Now think of in a world 20 years down the line you are

talking to your AI systems there are robots flying down with woods and stuff and stuff and within a week or within few days they can actually make the

whole house you think it's very ex exaggerated very possible north because travel time is very So the time it took to travel reduced

the time it for us to come go from here to the other part of the world is reduced everything is so getting advanced travel

time building time or time or the cost is getting optimized we'll get to a point system even in physical world it will

make it drones stuff humano roids properly creating a house that I want for me physical change not just digital >> so up when you're entering into this kind of world the trajectory is going to

be very different like the base level needs are already done you're going to be eating enough food because government systems are like I mean government needs to be good though I'm assuming the government is like very good

>> just allocate some energy solar energy nuclear energy could be any energy but they will just allocate that energy and everyone have base seek necessity fulfilled who I want to go extra it

could be more like space travel Mars that will come into an elite behavior or status quo behavior very possible I mean looks not but if

you see the last 50 years the prime minister of India doesn't have the first prime minister doesn't have the comfort of switching on a but uh switching on a

switch to start the heater there's a process in heating water and like today we just wake up switch on and just go into we have the moving air condition

which is cars 200 years back people don't have it I mean we don't see the change that happened because we world born in a new world the change that's going to happen

is way different everyone is going to live a billionaire's life that's for sure and the what billionaires doing today is going to do more extra official thing like >> space travel

>> space travel or I don't know building a tower in one week or could be different. So we heading towards that world and growth is exponential.

>> So world new world replaced because a lot of jobs will get replaced. A lot of people will get replaced. A lot of skills would get replaced. I think we

need to think I we need to think it differently. We at uh we are not meant

differently. We at uh we are not meant to work. So replacement comes

to work. So replacement comes we as a human are not meant to walk this system at scale you don't need money but okay you will need some kind

of really clear.

So I think immediate solution to that is just adapt to AI. I mean uh one of the most important skills is how well you can prompt the AI.

AI I had seen we had seen like a lot of users come and give a oneliner stuff and say it doesn't work. That's the most important skill as of today you need if

you're in college if you're doing a job start to learn how to talk to an AI there's also a technical term to it prompt engineering you need to prompt it well in order to make it work. Whoever

does this best is a so in our company we make sure that two two skills are uh um really uh there before we hire how well you can talk to AI prompting and high

urgency you need to have that kind of urgency to do something I think these are the two skills you need to operate in the new world to be valuable in the new world high urgency and uh good prompting skills

>> okay what does a good prompt look like >> yeah it defines things uh very well I And again very personal to everyone how they talk but or what kind of response

they need but the first paragraph needs to to for look for any place in anywhere else but depends

how better you are conveying it in your words.

So prompt engineering means first is okay I mean it's a process like first is you define

dos then don'ts and then you enter that's a good is that a good prompt or is there more to it >> yeah this is a very good foundationally like so you need to say what you need to

get done and the negatives and positives of it what like what what not to include, what to include, what to include and um do you feel

like I mean that's that's going to happen because uh for this corporates main

so for that they want that they make sure you feel good just like how social media works. So

media works. So >> they want it to happen. So I think systems are going to evolve to that. And

also every every uh AI system have their own biases. So you know uh Elon tweeted

own biases. So you know uh Elon tweeted about it like um if we make AI can be anyone. If we

fine-tune it better on the right wing, it become resist. Like if we if we fine tune the AI on the type of content which is anti-liberal it become resist

>> and if not it become completely liberal.

>> So you can't actually build a nonbias AI. So there was this meme

AI. So there was this meme Hitler. I'm not sure if you heard on

Hitler. I'm not sure if you heard on Twitter it was happening but uh the Grock turned into Mecca Hitler and started like talking like that. So

there's always a biases I think in uh in AI. Uh, it's going to stay I mean

AI. Uh, it's going to stay I mean because it's complet it's trained on some data and the data will every data will have some kind of biases. You can't

have like a clean AI.

>> Got it. You're talking about Elon.

>> Yep.

>> You love him.

>> I I mean I haven't met him personally but I I really appreciate him.

>> Why Why do you think Elon I think um I mean there's a lot to it but um I think the the major part like

you need to obsessed over something for a long span of time.

>> So many people fail on it. I mean and his goals are very like not normal going to

Mars. I mean anyone who want to live a

Mars. I mean anyone who want to live a normal life he can just stay happy on earth right but as a bad goal like you want to like achieve this I mean those

kind of traits are if you are aiming for stars you end up being on the moon so I think that's a very big trait of him like which that's why he's able to handle like five different startup all

in its own like doing the own innovation neurolink boring company and um SpaceX and even in the SpaceX they have cluster of team working on different defenses,

Starlink. So, I like I like how how he's

Starlink. So, I like I like how how he's able to handle all of them while while not burned out. So, um I admire that and

I think the most important part is you know what drives people are like the hope right I mean they need to they need to believe like this can be possible. So

he had made the bar so high as a single human you can do I can do this >> anyone can do anything. So that opens up the wide range of opportunity. You will

not start doubting. You be like okay if someone did it we can do it. So the

indirect butterfly effects of that act is crazy. I think that's why I think

is crazy. I think that's why I think many people admire him and I think it's a it's a net positive like it's going to really add some value to the world.

>> Fair entrepreneurial journey.

>> I think the first time founder is just figuring out stuff like how to do it and um I was very much interested. So so

Kota Rajasthan.

>> Kota Rajasthan by the way. Tell me about your family.

>> Yeah. Um so

I mean I was born there but uh keep changing cities jobs and stuff.

So I kind of stayed in everywhere like um from Gujarat to Mumbai um Hyderabad um and even in UP I was 5 years I was in

a guru school in Manglatan Gurukul.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

So >> what do you mean by this? So you stayed in Gurukul but you studied CBSC and in your extra time

proper scriptural studies and scriptures and u rituals you're doing it.

>> Okay explain.

So this is fascinating.

>> Yeah this is yeah and the and the most different part is there's no internet like internet connected.

in 8th standard my mom like sent me to the gurugul and um from 8 to 12 I was there host >> you can call it hostel but uh it's a bit different in a way like it's just not

hostile it has some kind of uh different >> explain like early in the morning to before school I'm talking about

before school puja part and main the main uh focus was um suadhya. So swadhya is like you're

um suadhya. So swadhya is like you're reading all these scriptures.

>> So I'm a big fan of like few scriptures has shaped my thinking process is like moka praashak samsar and and we used to

read it every day for an hour like yeah school like we do our breakfast and then go to school and when there's no holiday in

school we spend extra time in temple. So

I mean at that point of time we like ah why have you do it >> but later we figure out that was a very good like uh it actually shaped a person out of me like the discipline like I I I

don't think if connected like in this whole peak of 8th to 12th I would have had that kind of mindset or sharp mind that is right now

regular school like from 7 8 So day uh uh one and two >> and then you come back and some some special days you have to again go back and normal days you can spend it your

time as you want. We spent it by reading books because that was the only way we can uh get information uh on internet.

>> Yeah. Internet. I mean they didn't give the access to the internet. So

but it was also very regulated. So um

then evening we food before sunset we don't eat after it.

>> Okay.

>> So you have to stay. So now current lifestyle is so different than what you don't have to eat uh and you don't get food after that. So basically you are like all >> and then you go to temple again spend

that 2 three hours this was a normal day >> every day >> every day >> and 2 three hours temples again scriptures >> yes scriptures and if someone want to spend extra time there's also extra classes so

>> and what do they teach you apart from just books and scriptures focus lessons from the ancient or from our gurus or from yes >> which is the ancient wisdom they would

try to teach you that >> yes totally that so um spirituality I think is the main part they wanted to uh like make us read. So I think that was a

very interesting part of the life.

>> Um and um for guru kebab >> guru kulkad then I wanted to um and now it's on your own like you get that um whatever skill set you want or mindset

you want and now you can operate on your own. So I wanted to get into fintech.

own. So I wanted to get into fintech.

>> Um actually finance I was a big fan of Warren Buffett. Even at Google days I

Warren Buffett. Even at Google days I used to read like of Warren Buffett and a lot of finance book um the annual Burkshire Hathway newsletters letters and stuff

>> shareholder letter.

>> Yeah shareholders letter. So so I wanted to get into investment and finance. So

>> I was 17 and I started writing on internet ka kora I have like a good followers. uh people started following

followers. uh people started following me at a 17 and I was like okay like taking my advices on stock market and stuff um and I didn't have any of my DMAT account because I was not legally

then I turned 18 that's when I started doing and whatever pocket money I had I started investing all in like um and but I had the high energy I want to do something like I want to build something

so I went into like building some apps fintech apps and uh this is a very interesting story but that's what pushed me to the crypto Let me tell you.

>> So, >> so I started building apps and figured if you want to be successful in finance or fintech industry, it's highly regulated.

>> You can't do it immediately.

>> You need to go through an big approval.

There needs to be a credibility in you like you had worked in 5 years 10 years in this sector.

>> Uh but time and this is also termed as high urgency but I want to do it a very immediate like >> yeah right now.

>> Yeah. Right now like I can't wait for I can't plan out for next 5 years and 10 years. Um and uh then 2017 the bitcoin

years. Um and uh then 2017 the bitcoin was going up >> and uh it was getting some good traction and I thought and so I built an app which was making like $1,000 a month.

>> Sweet.

>> Yeah. Just a uh just a app very notification service of BC notifications.

Um then overnight I switched from this to crypto just because I can code and I can deploy contracts on Ethereum blockchain. I enter with Bitcoin via

blockchain. I enter with Bitcoin via investment but I can write my code and put it on Ethereum blockchain. So

blockchain deploy like open blockchain and there are people who are actually depositing millions of dollars

>> in that contract. They don't even know me. They don't know my age. They don't

me. They don't know my age. They don't

know where I live. And yet they are using the software because smart contract like smart contract is like it's a open blockchain. You can see the code >> there's no like you can verify it.

>> Yeah.

>> And you don't need to rely on me to use that. And uh that was a very defining

that. And uh that was a very defining moment like I still used I remember I was at home and I was saying mommy and my mom used to think is he doing scam

um um and uh that's how it uh entered and u I think uh we started getting a lot of global recognization because we are early in our career and they're like they wanted a story.

>> Okay, two kids somewhere from India build something used by big big players globally. So we got a lot of like media

globally. So we got a lot of like media coverage in crypto community at that time and that's how we started the whole journey and I think six seven years I all in there building the

>> what was the first investment first funding first investment >> oh yeah it's also very fascinating I mean um um so we had a good investor

base in the first round from Nal Raiki Kant Balajinasan Coinbase Idea Collab and a few more good players so Or how did you convince these guys?

First round me >> first round me I mean I think um the best part this is also very interesting like for any founders want to raise fund I think >> you don't have to raise fund in a way

like you want to raise fund I mean like you need to work towards it u what's rare in the world is the best good founder there's a rarity of good founders there lots of founders but the

good founder which can define things are rare >> and what's you tell me what's the investor's job. What's their job?

investor's job. What's their job?

>> To find hunt for talent, huh? Like they

want >> a rare talent.

>> Yeah. Rare talent. So that's the investor job. They want they it's their

investor job. They want they it's their job. It's not your job.

job. It's not your job.

>> You do your stuff, build the best thing and you they will find their way to approach you and actually fund you. And

that's what happened.

>> And they found you up front.

>> I mean uh there was communication going on but we didn't did anything. We didn't

have a deck. Even this round we raised it on a tweet. We didn't have a deck or a plan or anything you know. So um um

they are there to find the right founder which can change the future. So you need to be that you need to be that person.

>> So how did that happen? Tell me it's fascinating story or no. So first we get the lead founder I

no. So first we get the lead founder I mean lead investor. It doesn't. So all

of the other investors are the follow on investors. They don't directly come in

investors. They don't directly come in unless you're raising a friend friendly angel round which is small >> but we um so we got the lead which was Panta.

>> Okay.

>> Um they are a big crypto I mean they are a big crypto fund in US and uh >> yeah I mean we connected to them via the mentor we had and the mentor I mean the

mentor in a way like he wanted to acquire us.

>> Okay.

>> And we rejected it. It was a good offer.

we can go to LA and we can work in their office in LA and stuff but we like um not too interesting. We did even had a uh so he end up becoming our adviser.

>> Uh like okay we and here's uh I think Edward Monata he's like a CEO of Blockfolio and he got acquired by FTX later. So another story

later. So another story >> um but uh >> um um from there uh we rejected that offer and actually we did a rejection a lot. I mean we did rejected a lot of

lot. I mean we did rejected a lot of offers.

>> Okay.

>> On the way while we don't even have a CR in our bank.

>> Yeah.

>> We're just kids. So we went for uh we went to SF and there was this um uh one guy I think Tom his very lean position at Dragonfly Fund. He used to work somewhere else before and he told us you

did a very huge run before you completed this round like you should have raised earlier and um we were just meeting Noel after that. And uh there was this

after that. And uh there was this statement by this guy like um uh you should you have should have not did such a long sprint because we are so popular zero fund raise.

>> Yeah.

>> So um um and then uh it's more of network and connection. We went to an uh New York event and um just shaked hand with Paul who is like the lead in uh

who's leading the panther fund. Just a

two-minute conversation, nothing else.

We came back. Coinbase the biggest exchange wanted to lead our first round and then other investors came and like okay uh what about we do it >> and there was a race between those

investors like who can fund first >> race versus Panta >> yeah I mean it was not so visible but the point is once you get one investors u so

oh okay why do investor invest I mean most of the time investor invest because other investors are investing simple so if you can build that vype or vibe uh kind of a mystery around

yourself. Uh raising ground is not a big

yourself. Uh raising ground is not a big issue. I mean you do need a substance or

issue. I mean you do need a substance or a credibility from your history. Um but

but once you build that hype uh there is a risk capital anyone is ready to risk like even this is like a zero a 1% chance let's allocate some funds.

>> So uh it converted into a completely new kind of um um um um uh a group of people wanted to like just be a part of it. Uh

and we also fortunate at the back desk like I mean they were the best people we can work uh I still remember walking alongside novel in SF street >> and then about novel meeting >> so um

>> who introduced you to novel >> okay that's also a good connection so panther invested and Coinbase was already wanted to invest everything was friendly there's no nothing aggressive um and then at that time Balaji was the

CTO of Coinbase if you remember >> so um that's how we got in touch with Balaji Coinbase did participate in the round as a follow on so they were also

part of our they also backed us so quite appreciate that but that's how I got in touch we got in touch with Balaji and from Balaji we got in touch with novel

and um um uh uh got chance to walk with him in the SF street we were very young with our bags you know and uh on the way back we give him pa like the milk pa

because you know desert and we were like first time going out Um and uh it was a good uh good uh good. So I think what I appreciate >> what did he ask you?

>> I asked our vision and mission what we are trying to do and stuff and some basic questions but I don't think he went too much to technical. I think he was backing the founders compared to getting to know what the project.

>> Yeah. So what did he find in you? What

do you think?

>> Uh I mean I think we need to ask Novel.

>> What do you think? What do you think he backed?

>> I think we are very early in our career and uh we took the risk. Nobody at our age like I was 20, my brother was 18 actually think of doing all these things. So might have seen we are very

things. So might have seen we are very self-driven. High urgency I think is

self-driven. High urgency I think is again a very critical skill everyone need.

>> So you just went to him and be like this is what we're building. This is what we're doing.

>> Coinbase and Pantherra >> we have active offers from both of them.

>> I think these are more followons. So

they like uh lead already already already gets confirmed and >> the lead is Panthetherra, right?

>> Yeah.

>> So it got confirmed. So you went to Novel and be like my lead is confirmed already.

>> Panther is investing this much in us.

How much do you want to invest or is it more like hey we want advice to build this?

>> Yes. I mean it's more like a follow on then like uh we are raising around but we also want you now the followons with it doesn't work like they want to invest. We like okay we need you. You

invest. We like okay we need you. You

can be very helpful to us. You have a good network. So with followance is more

good network. So with followance is more like how we can because uh the the maximum amount of funds you get is from the lead. So you solve the money

the lead. So you solve the money problem. Now you need to solve the

problem. Now you need to solve the network or credibility problem. So

that's where the following comes. That's

when you make sure your angels who are putting the small checks uh are very well curated.

>> Baji is big in crypto community. Nal is

big in that community.

>> People like these product building to it's again founder I don't I mean we can we can't expect investor to do it because if they're doing it then what we are doing it so

>> I think it's a first I think their backing in itself is a very big thing they believed in us that's I think majority part is like solved like okay there's someone who is believing in us

who who had built something influential before so that's the m and uh another benefit is just networks You can just DM them anytime and you can just like hey can you connect with us this we're raising another round can you

connect with us on other investors. So

it's it's on you how you are actually leveraging their network and how well you are leaging.

>> Did you leverage?

>> Uh yeah I mean I did text texted here and there anytime I needed some help.

>> Help.

>> Yeah it did help. I'm meeting Balaji next uh month October in network school.

There's an event >> Singapore. So I'm I mean we kind of

>> Singapore. So I'm I mean we kind of connected and uh can text anyone and if it sounds appealing they will actually um >> do they help? Does it has it ever helped you till now?

>> Yeah it did help. It did help. I think

uh angels help the best like um um I mean first I'm the backd is one and the networks they have they're wellconnected people. I mean if you can tell them hey

people. I mean if you can tell them hey we need to connect with them and this is what we want they will. I mean that's a very big value prop because getting to know some third person directly but

someone is referring you. So let's call it like biology introduces to novel.

Novel is not never directly investing in us but now there's a referral. This is

the first case. So I mean if you articulate it like it they it does help the network does help not too visible but it does help.

>> So at some stage some scale it will help eventually.

>> Yeah it will help. I think uh one more thing you need to be very grounded.

uh you raise your first and you're like okay I'm g I can do something but you never know how life will turn around like uh you don't need a uh who you connected today how they're going to be

helpful down the line or how you can be helpful them it could be anything but you need to be very grounded um if you really want to be so um yeah even at

earlier stage that was also like okay then we got some roller coaster rides in the start we're like okay we got to be but uh yeah it's very very important very important.

>> Tell me one failure you faced.

>> I I don't think I see failure as a failure. I because

failure. I because >> but one setback that you had >> setback I mean I did had a lot of problems which we see as a challenges and we need to overcome it.

>> Um >> what was the biggest challenge?

>> At different stage it was very different like I mean it depends at early stage of my education it was like I need to study or I need to make something. I failed

everything like academically I didn't pursue I was doing CA I didn't went for second level I was doing CFA failed level one in fact I even failed uh BCOM

so I was very like uh academically drained like so but I was very passionate about other side of things so it pays off later on very stressful period but possible

>> and while building the startup finding our users another very big outcome like the How much brand visibility you get or whatever you get like you're known by

millions of people or you raise the fund raise round doesn't matter the ultimate test is how many users you can get how many people you are changing life for in other ways if you say are people using

your product if not all these are like very temporary maybe year or two you will die down one of the ultimate stress test for a startup is how well you can get the users how sticky they are how

many lives you're changing in that so I think with The first startup we did for a subsequent like for a few years figuring out was a very big problem like figuring out like how to like actually

game up. We launching something it gets

game up. We launching something it gets popular for a week or two again the viral viralities r goes down. I I'm sure you might also have some many moments in

your life too. So you can relate. Um but

a very very big I think it's things are very stable right now but initially when we starting out very tricky. What makes

in your journey of building products and actually attracting so many users, what have you learned? What makes people stick to product?

Because there is there are so many products and whatever you're making >> maybe starting you were innovative >> but in 2 months there'll be like 500 meters of you

>> right. How do you make people stick to

>> right. How do you make people stick to your platform? What do users really

your platform? What do users really value?

I think the uh the initial growth of any startups comes from users directly connected like you need to listen them

you need to incorporate those feedback quickly in your product and make them happy. So initial set of 100 to thousand

happy. So initial set of 100 to thousand users how happy they are is going to decide the next trajectory of your whole

whole company.

So um we did a lot of those things. Um I

think one of the major feature we we were like very viral about on Twitter was refinance. I mean

was refinance. I mean build a system from one protocol to another one button click. So very very I

mean small thing nobody will do it but there was this 100 to thousand user who wanted this >> we build it and uh we listen them and we

incorporate that in the product I think that's what matters the most got it well is there any one lesson last lesson that

you want to share it with all the budding entrepreneurs that what should they keep in mind if they want to build something and which category they should be building and

thinking in today's world >> there's a lot that can come into the mind um but whatever industry you guys are building like whoever is listening

this um I think one of the most important thing you need to do is stay highly urgent about whatever you're doing like high urgency is a very

important skills I mean it looks very cliche again but you need to be obsess about the problem. You need to have that kind of urgency. Uh because that's the

only skill that is going to make you stand out. Uh looks very normal but I

stand out. Uh looks very normal but I can tell it based on where I am right now. The AI industry, how everything is

now. The AI industry, how everything is panning out. The only skill set is going

panning out. The only skill set is going to make sense is how what level of urgency you have in in in in within yourself. It's going to it's going to

yourself. It's going to it's going to make the whole that's going to differentiate the winners from the losers. Let's say that way. And in what

losers. Let's say that way. And in what industry do you feel the next billiond dollar company can be built?

uh I think all of the industry there's a reason we are going through a paradigm shift

you know from from industrialization to hardware we got a new wave of billionaires Microsoft Apple from

hardware to software we got a new wave of billionaires Snapchat Facebook all these cloud internet software >> internet companies. Now we are moving

towards intelligence age like now internet and human. This is the current form. Now it's going to be internet

form. Now it's going to be internet intelligence layer and then human. So

we're going to see a new wave of products and companies popping out. So I

think it's haven't incorporated well in our life. So wherever whatever interests

our life. So wherever whatever interests you just try to think how this new species artificial species that we are building intelligence can incorporate in your lifestyle and the next wave of

billionaires are going to be from this intelligence age. So what is a good way

intelligence age. So what is a good way to start learning or maybe thinking about how can I incorporate intelligence in my world or start thinking about how to build products and intelligence

because someone listening this >> for you it might be very obvious and easy to just say that okay you're going for a paradigm shift and this is going to we're going from internet to

intelligence and whatever right >> but for a lot of people it's it's not as easy as as it comes to you right >> what should they be looking forward to,

what should they be reading, what should they be uh maybe surfing on internet or pages to follow or the news and articles to read or maybe just what is one prompt they

should put in maybe chat GPD or claude that they start thinking from that framework of building something big.

>> I think the start from basics of intelligence.

>> Yeah. uh um uh yeah at some point like I think at this point everyone needs to somehow get exposed to this uh new systems intelligence.

One of the important thing as I mentioned earlier too I think uh is how well you can talk to the system. So uh

personally uh I I can say my best model like I my best model is some like I can mention it like sonet 4 I mean it's bit technical but you need to have that kind

of tuning with your own models like which models you vibe with well so um I don't know the immediate step but whatever you're doing you need to wire

your mind to just talk to this like you need to talk to this just like how we were doing this bindi stuff and I was wired to like say whatever Everyone needs to have that kind of wiring. The software can be anything

wiring. The software can be anything chat GDP or cloud to start with but ultimately you will find your own model.

This reminds me of a meme like you know um there's a meme going on like uh the future models are going to be these models.

>> We're going to date all these algorithms. >> Yeah.

>> So um u like u yeah. So fascinating

world. So just start thinking about how well can you talk to your software.

>> Yes. How well you can >> and how well they understand you. So all

the problems and the thinking and the next step that you want to take >> you have that conversation with it and >> let that language model search entire internet come up with solutions and

things for you >> and on that framework you start building or creating the next level of things that you want to do.

>> Is that what it >> I mean it's a it's a good start. Yeah.

Okay.

>> And the rest you will figure it out on the way. But um yeah, that's a very good

the way. But um yeah, that's a very good start.

>> That's a good start. Perfect. Thank you

so much, brother. Thank you so much for coming here and spending time with me.

>> Yeah, very interesting conversation.

>> Thank you.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> I speak to a lot of founders >> and I love this Elon Musk analogy because a lot of founders quote this >> because as a founder you have every time you see an opportunity, you want to do something about it.

>> Yes.

>> Right. And because you're like, "Oh, I don't want to lose this. I know that this company is going to grow and I've put in a good team to let that grow on autopilot. I can handle another project

autopilot. I can handle another project as well.

>> Okay. But

>> so that's also a trap. But also depends again.

>> Exactly. That's a trap. And why is it also a trap? A lot of people keep quoting Elon on this. But

>> Elon did that after unlocking billions of dollars in value for shareholders. So

shareholders started trusting him with multiple projects.

>> Yeah. Exactly.

>> Thank you so much.

Number two.

and number three episode.

One conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until

life. I'll see you next time. Until

then, keep figuring out