The End of Work: Vinod Khosla's Bold AI Prediction | Titans and Disruptors

We will have enough abundance the need to work will go away in a world where AI has already begun to infiltrate our daily lives, what will life look like by 2040 I sat down with Vinod Khosla, who many call one of the greatest venture capitalists of all time, those who use AI will clearly beat those who don't use AI. He believed in AI long before it became part of the

AI. He believed in AI long before it became part of the public discourse, and he's bet big and early on open AI the leading AI research company that serves hundreds of millions of users a week, I placed the largest bet I'd placed in 40 years by a factor of two. Khosla predicts that within 15 years, AI will completely redefine life as we know it, driving down the

cost of living, freeing young people from a future of work and shifting society from survival to true fulfillment. It's pretty

unlikely a five year old today will be looking for a job, but his utopian vision hinges on one critical safeguard governments getting their policies right. So the current Maga notion of lower the taxes will not work. I'm Allison Chantal, editor in chief of fortune, and this is Titans and disruptors of industry.

We'll be right back after this break. You

if this is on the topic of every CXO conversation I'm a part of, and I think the thought process has to be looking for high impact areas that may not be necessarily the most glamorous or high profile functional areas, but are ripe for automation and use of this technology to create efficiencies as well as innovation. And over time, AI

agents will be also in customer facing and growth oriented domains. In our case, Deloitte, we're using it within our

domains. In our case, Deloitte, we're using it within our financial organization, looking at very mundane processes like expense management and working capital management, we're seeing other organizations using it in call centers and with software development that can be automated, comes down to intentionality. And so I think that intentionality in going functional area by functional

area in concert with business and IT leadership and enterprise. It needs to be a mainstream business planning

enterprise. It needs to be a mainstream business planning effort that's budgeted, that's KPIs are developed, and there's real accountability for actual business outcomes and impact because of agentic capabilities.

Vinod, it's a pleasure to be with you. You've had a storied career as both a founder and a venture assistant. As you like to say, you do not like to be called a venture capitalist, and you're certainly one of the titans of industry. So thank you for being with me today. Oh, it's fun to talk about these things. Absolutely my favorite thing as well. I love your

things. Absolutely my favorite thing as well. I love your future outlook. I think it's really a healthy dose of

future outlook. I think it's really a healthy dose of optimism that people need to hear when it comes to the AI future. Can you just give me a big picture perspective of what

future. Can you just give me a big picture perspective of what you think life could be like in 2040 I would say, to imagine the change between today and 2040 you'd have to go back and look at the change between the 70s and now, when TV still had rotary dials and three channels, there was no such thing as a cell phone, no such thing as an

internet. Life was very different. Expectations were

internet. Life was very different. Expectations were

very different. I think that magnitude of change is what will happen in the next 15 years, and what will we be doing? Are we

going to be working? Are we going to be using public transportation? Are we all going to have private chauffeurs? What

transportation? Are we all going to have private chauffeurs? What

does kind of life look like? Here's the things to imagine.

Almost all expertise globally will be free.

It'll raise lots of interesting questions. Do you pay a farm worker the same as an oncologist, because they happen to have the same expertise, which is the expertise of AI.

Almost all labor will be free because we will have robotics, probably for a few $100 a month. The way you pay a few $100 a month for a car, you'd pay for a robot in the house. Definitely

make you any style of food you want, any recipe you can ask for, or might wish for, or might even be good at what you haven't had recently, and predict what you might like. For a change, that's one side of it. On the enterprise side functions left for humans to do. Very hard to predict. It's pretty unlikely a

five year old today will be looking for a job. A five year old today will most likely not be looking for job. So my

daughter, oh, great, good. If I'm right, you will see a couple of phenomena.

First, the need to work will go away. People.

Will still work on the things they want to work on, not because they need to work.

Look at the vast majority of jobs in this country, let alone the rest of the world. Which is worse, if you're an assembly line worker on a GM car, car line mounting a tire for eight hours a day for 30 or 40 years, if you're a farm worker here in

the Salinas Valley, not far from here, hunched over in 100 degree heat, picking lettuce. Those are not jobs. Those are service you.

I think we will have enough abundance. The need to work will go away. I think

go away. I think that sounds like a great future in terms of freeing us of servitude, jobs that are just jobs that you have to do because you need a living, as opposed to jobs that you really want to do like you. You're still working. You don't need to be but you

like you. You're still working. You don't need to be but you love it, and I love my job, and it's great place to be, but so many people don't feel that way. And I definitely want to dig into how you think that could be financially viable, and how we can support all these people who aren't working. But first I want to go back in time to your upbringing in India. I know you

didn't come from a well to do family the way that you learned about entrepreneurship. I think he's going out and physically

about entrepreneurship. I think he's going out and physically renting magazines. I would hope that at some point you rented a

renting magazines. I would hope that at some point you rented a Fortune Magazine. That would be awesome. I be awesome, but I'd

Fortune Magazine. That would be awesome. I be awesome, but I'd love to just hear how your upbringing shaped your perspective that you now use today. A couple of things.

First, I would say I grew up with very few expectations. I

remember being coming to this country in 1976 my family had never had a TV at home. My family had never had a phone at home. So expectations of what life was like was pretty low. You worked a lot and you survived, was the

pretty low. You worked a lot and you survived, was the expectation. So I started in a very different world,

expectation. So I started in a very different world, but I also realized very quickly how much you have agency over your own future, how much you can create. And that was very energizing for me, like my future was in my hands, and I

never really got a regular job, you know, I got my undergrad, my master's degree in Biomedical Engineering, and then my MBA at Stanford, and then did my first startup, did my second I was fortunate. I've never actually worked for anybody or applied

fortunate. I've never actually worked for anybody or applied for a job or had a resume, as they used to call them, before LinkedIn, everybody will have more opportunity to chart their own future, to tie it back. You know, today with your daughter, you would say to her, go to school, study hard. Do well, get into a college. You hope she gets into a college, and then

she can get a good job and support her family in 15 years from now, you will say, what is bad advice today or used to be, which is, follow your passion. Follow your passion comes second to surviving. I think that surviving part will go away, and

to surviving. I think that surviving part will go away, and you'll tell every five year old kid, follow your passion. That

would be awesome. And so you clearly followed your passion all the way to the states, to Stanford, where you started Sun Microsystems, and then you went to Kleiner Perkins, and you helped kind of be the grandchild of Juniper Networks, which is one of the greatest returns in venture capital history. That

was fun. Yeah, I bet it was a 2500 return. I would like that That's amazing, pretty rare, even for venture capital 100% I'm wondering how being a little bit of a contrarian thinker, that's a signature trait of the most successful entrepreneurs and venture capitalists in the world. What learnings from sun and juniper success did you pick up to help hone that contrarian

view? Give yourself permission to think out of the box. You

view? Give yourself permission to think out of the box. You

know, when I was in sustainability, I used to say, think outside the barrel, the oil barrel. Almost everybody has it. Very few people exercise it in the most important trait in

it. Very few people exercise it in the most important trait in entrepreneurs, it's about agency and driving your future and being empowered. I had no resources. I had no contacts, I

being empowered. I had no resources. I had no contacts, I didn't have any money. It just you create agency and you make it happen. It's still very hard. It's still the last 40 years

it happen. It's still very hard. It's still the last 40 years lots of failure points, lots of things that didn't work, but you power through those and have resilience. And I think 2040, almost everybody, will have agency, because they won't have the constraints of abundance, if, if government policy allows

it, I do want to know your thoughts on that, because most.

Jobs. Clearly, people do because they need money, and secondarily, it's a sense of purpose. You wake up in the morning, you have a responsibility. You go to do it.

The loss of both of those things, income and purpose are huge, and I want to know your thoughts on how our brains can adapt to survive that kind of fast transition in both hugely important areas. You may be out of luck. Your daughter won't be

important areas. You may be out of luck. Your daughter won't be I think younger people will adjust to this freedom to do what they want much easier than older people's notion of where they have meaning in life. Most people today don't have enough time to spend with their kids, totally. Most people today don't

have enough time to spend with their aging parents. Talk about

two large consumptions of time that is very, very meaningful.

If you're an artist, you'd better get used to working at a restaurant as a waiter or waitress. That's the reality for most people aspiring to be an artist or a basketball star or a surfer or a musician. So I do think the room for creativity is very, very large, but we are drilled into a narrow vision of

what we are supposed to do, and I think that's the fundamental thing that will change about humanity, AI will free us to be more human. It's a message Vinod Khosla has had for decades. At

more human. It's a message Vinod Khosla has had for decades. At

the start of the millennium, he said, AI would redefine what it means to be human. By the mid 2010s Khosla was investing in AI image and radiology technology. Then in 2019 his company, Khosla ventures, was the first to make an institutional investment in the chat GPT creator open AI. It was his largest single investment in 40 years. How do you think is the best way to

replace the income when we have this huge wealth disparity?

Let's talk about that. Yeah, I think each country will do things differently, starting in about 2034 uh 80% four years away, 80% of all jobs, so two thirds of all jobs will be capable of being done by an AI. So whether you're a physician, whether you're a radiologist, whether you're

accountant, whether you're a chip designer, whether you're a salesperson, AI will do your job better. And there'll be an interim period where every professional will have four AI interns they're training to leverage themselves. And I think the initial model of AI deployment will be aI interns

working for somebody who's already a senior accountant or a physician or pick your chip designer.

But what happens when all labor is free? By the way, 15 trillion of US GDP is labor 15 trillion that would mostly go away.

That's a hugely deflationary economy, something nobody's planning on. But it's a different kind of deflation than

planning on. But it's a different kind of deflation than past deflationary economies. The abundance of goods and services will be very, very large. Prices will be very, low. So I would suspect by 2040, $30,000 will buy, and maybe $10,000 will buy much more than you can buy if you have $100,000

income today. So the level of income you need in a

income today. So the level of income you need in a deflationary economy will be very different, interesting. So

you think it'll cost less for just lifestyle. Look, all

education should be free, yep, all, which means college is goodbye. It's a real question.

It'll take longer, because people like institutions and the notion of institutions, but you won't need a college to get an engineering degree, you won't even need the engineering degree, except if your passion is learning, and my passion is learning, that's why I do what I do. So education free. Education

can be free. All health care, health care, except interventional procedures like heart surgery, will be near free labor, whether you're talking about farm workers or assembly line workers or retail workers or accountants, that'll be all free and in a competitive economy, that means declining

prices. Now I don't think GDP will we will have dramatically

prices. Now I don't think GDP will we will have dramatically increased GDP if it's measured right? GDP, as we measure it, will be a very poor measure of growth, because prices will be declining in this deflationary economy. So there's an unusual

opportunity. Post 2040, most goods and services will be near

opportunity. Post 2040, most goods and services will be near free to.

Produce energy will be free because of fusion and other sources of energy. It won't be oil based and will be much cheaper. And there's complex areas that are hard to predict,

cheaper. And there's complex areas that are hard to predict, like steel, I suspect we'll have 10 times more steel resources and much less need for steel. But things like housing are the hardest problem. But you have this world where we have abundance of goods

problem. But you have this world where we have abundance of goods and services you need, food and housing, health care, education, entertainment, almost all free, interesting. Do you see a world where I think the internet made so many millionaires happen faster than at any point. And I think there's a feeling that AI

will create more billionaires than at any point. Are we

looking at this sort of like you're either a surf or a billionaire, and there's nothing in between. Is that? What does

that look like? You know, it's very hard to predict, and most of it, most of it will depend on government policy. So the

current Maga notion of lower the taxes will not work. My politics

are clear. I think the level of minimum level of services governments will be able to provide will be much, much higher in all dimensions. How that redistribution happens very hard to tell.

Why are governments inefficient at certain things? Because they

hire people who don't have the right incentive structure. So

incentives is what capitalism is about. By the way, capitalism is by permission of democracy. You can't leave 80% of the population behind. They will report revoke capitalism if that

population behind. They will report revoke capitalism if that happens. I think we're seeing that. We are seeing pieces of

happens. I think we're seeing that. We are seeing pieces of that, but policy will see how we handle this set of services, this simple thing, short term, more structural things, long term, for example, in this traditional battle of now moving

to economics, share of income to labor versus capital, it'll shift lot to capital, little to labor. How do you change that in the short term, I think fundamentally we are to eliminate the notion of capital gains. All income is ordinary

income. Everybody pays the same tax. And the next presidential

income. Everybody pays the same tax. And the next presidential campaign, I hope, gets behind. Nobody pays income tax below $100,000 a year starting 2030 that shortfall is made up by increase in the capital gains

tax to be the same as ordinary income. I could go through lots of detailed policy. I'm working a document on that, but it makes it tax neutral, no more taxes, but much fairer distribution of income, 40% of all capital gains is paid by people making more than 10 million a year.

Now that's a very small percentage 123 million people, or roughly that make less than $100,000 a year, and you make all taxes go away for them. So there's

ways, and that's why I think policy, which will be driven by politics, will drive where we end up on this equation short term. And I think it will start in the early 2030s this massive

term. And I think it will start in the early 2030s this massive drive for structural change. People have proposed AI taxes, robot taxes, I think some sort of wealth fund for a nation.

Norway has an Oil Fund. Alaska has no Oil Fund. We won't have oil but we will have other sources of wealth creation that should be. And these are some raw ideas. They have plenty of

should be. And these are some raw ideas. They have plenty of flaws in them, but they will be refined. And something

structural has to happen.

It could be universal basic income. It should be a wealth fund. It could be services that are near free. Any of these

fund. It could be services that are near free. Any of these things so very I don't want to go too far into areas that are still in process. In my thinking, No, I think it's the right innovative thinking and approach. And I think a lot of people who are making under $100,000 would really support a lot of that. One question I had, and they're the voters, they will vote for a candidate who says no

taxes if you make less than $100,000 let's tilt the equation towards labor and not capital. I'm

sitting here with a billionaire in California. Lots of

billionaires are starting to plot their leaving California because of a potential wealth tax on them. I know you've had thoughts about what's right and the wrong way to tax billionaires.

To be most effective for still creating innovation here, what are your thoughts generally on the right way to tax billionaires, and why is the current proposal potentially wrong? And do you have plans to leave California? I have no

wrong? And do you have plans to leave California? I have no plans to leave California. In fact, people would generally have left on January one or before January one. But it

doesn't structurally solve the problem beyond the one time shot of income one time. It's silly, and so many entrepreneurs who own 20%

one time. It's silly, and so many entrepreneurs who own 20% of their company are talking about leaving now in case somebody takes another shot, because junkies come back for another shot, if at the federal level, we doubled capital gains tax, made it or made it all uniform one tax, then we will

equalize and balance between economic profitability and economic growth and investment. That's

the reason for capital gains is increased investment and more equitable distribution of income. That's just one idea.

That's a structural change that would make sense. I'd be

surprised if that doesn't happen before 2040 now, capitalism was about economic efficiency, but if the need for efficiency goes away because of extreme abundance. Then why focus on efficiency? Let's focus on equity. Every country will be

efficiency? Let's focus on equity. Every country will be different, very unlikely. Business in Germany, for example, with strong participation of labor on their boards will allow AI to replace jobs. China will they're very much on that trajectory. The AI race between the US and China is incredibly close. The US still leads in advanced models and AI

incredibly close. The US still leads in advanced models and AI chips, but China is rapidly closing the gap, leveraging massive scale and state backing what was once a clear American advantage is now a high stakes sprint where breakthroughs or policy shifts could change the balance almost overnight, the feeling from the Trump administration is the US must win. David Sacks, the AI SAR is saying, I'm afraid of pessimism

win. David Sacks, the AI SAR is saying, I'm afraid of pessimism of AI and the States is going to hold us back. China is ahead in energy, even in EVs. How do you think what's happening there and what's happening here will affect kind of the future. We

are in a techno economic war with China, and we shouldn't call it anything other than a war, because whoever wins this AI race, though, I mostly disagree with the Trump administration, and I'm on their list, I mostly agree with their policy on AI, we have to win that race.

Whoever wins the AI race will win the economic race and will win the race for socio economic power and influence globally, whether you're talking about Southeast Asia, Latin America, Europe, all of that depends on who wins the AI race, because it's such a

pivotal technology. So I absolutely agree, and I think

pivotal technology. So I absolutely agree, and I think important that we win. And I think the Biden administration was pretty good about it, the Trump administration, I agree with all of their policy on AI and aggressiveness on AI. And

the importance, is it like ideological where China's viewpoint could be put into products, or is it more like war devices in terms of autonomous I think it's fundamentally about socio economic influence all over the world, which political system prevails. I happen to like democracy over the Chinese

system prevails. I happen to like democracy over the Chinese system. They're literally forcing more equality, and they

system. They're literally forcing more equality, and they think it can be centrally governed with Qi in power. I

couldn't argue that that's a bad system. I just don't like it.

I maybe I'm too brainwashed. I think a lot of Americans would agree with you. Yeah, I like democracy. I like this system, especially in the world of abundance, democracy and capitalism, both systems that have worked out well for Khosla, who is a billionaire and considers himself an independent and though he aligns with the Trump administration's position

on AI, it's pure genius and its potential to transform every type of human endeavor. COSLA has long been an outspoken critic of the president. COSLA has also sparred with Elon Musk over his lawsuit against open AI and his involvement in the Trump presidency. That's contrarian to a lot of VCs I see right now.

presidency. That's contrarian to a lot of VCs I see right now.

Who would be saying we need to support the administration.

They're good for little tech. They're good for our LPs, for our returns, depraved values be damned. How do you square that?

It depends on what you care about.

I care about my freedom. My first startup, I made enough to never need money again. That was my first startup in 1980 And I decided I would do what I want and say what you want, and say what I want, and I want to feel good about where I stand, and I would say, most people don't have that luxury. I think

it's almost an indulgence to be able to do what I do. I can't be fired. I've never worried about a career. I don't need more

fired. I've never worried about a career. I don't need more money at age 71 health permitting, next 25 years, I'll be doing exactly the same thing, because I like working 80 hours a week, learning, and nobody can take that away from me. So if,

if I speak up for the right thing, it's because I have this immunity from maybe they'll put me in jail that I wouldn't put that past this administration if Don Lemon can be arrested. Well,

who knows, but I do think if people don't speak up, we are more likely to head down this authoritarian path, because people are optimizing their short term advantage by getting in with the administration. I have the luxury so I definitely owe it to speak up in a country that's been really good to me. I

think most Americans don't know how good they have it in this country, and how much they control their own fate and agency. And it doesn't matter what Ilan thinks, what I value,

agency. And it doesn't matter what Ilan thinks, what I value, neither him nor Trump can take away. I don't think Elon was an interesting way that you came into open. AI as the first institutional investor, if I recall, he was a co founder with Sam. There was money, I think that was supposed to be kind of

Sam. There was money, I think that was supposed to be kind of delivered in a hand basket by Elon. That didn't happen, and you swooped in. Can you just take me back to that initial investment in about how you became the first, first, I would say, on Elon, I'm happy to call him when he needs to be called, which is often I'm also an admirer of Elon as an

entrepreneur, and he's created so many interesting companies and makes the future happen, which is the real contribution to society. Electric vehicles wouldn't have happened without

to society. Electric vehicles wouldn't have happened without Elon. Private space would be, you know, I'm very proud of our

Elon. Private space would be, you know, I'm very proud of our company, Rocket Lab, which is worth $45 billion something, but SpaceX, clearly, Ilan pioneered the way he's pushing in other areas, robotics, robotics, for example, I'm not optimistic he'll win that race, but it's it's an open race. AI is an open

race. He's definitely participating the right way, and

race. He's definitely participating the right way, and with a lot of courage and boldness, it's hard to bet against Ilan, because he's such a good entrepreneur, having said that he had committed a billion dollars to open AI, and then he nagged because he wanted to be in control. As far as I can tell, I wasn't privy to the battle is pre us investing in

open AI. So take that with a grain of salt. But he wanted to

open AI. So take that with a grain of salt. But he wanted to be CEO. He wanted to run the AI company. It seems like he wanted

be CEO. He wanted to run the AI company. It seems like he wanted it like a private fiefdom with him in charge, instead of what he claims like the public benefit company it is now he essentially was holding the team, Sam and others and Greg

and others hostage, and Sam had to look for other sources of money. There was no other source. My personal view was

money. There was no other source. My personal view was Google had good AI Baidu had a facility just run down the road from Google here in Silicon Valley, stealing all their best people by over paying them and developing Chinese AI. That's

where the AI battle started, in my view, and I thought there needed to be another AI effort on in the West, I'm pretty well known for my hostility to China, and I don't wish them ill. I

think they can be successful. I just don't want them to dominate us with their AI. And so I thought it was important to support open AI. I was also certain when AI happened, the consequences of success would be consequential, and that was open. AI as a bet, I placed the largest bet I'd placed in 40

open. AI as a bet, I placed the largest bet I'd placed in 40 years by a factor of two for an initial bet, and it was 50 million Yes, at a billion valuation, yes, in a company that was a non profit and is now worth a few 100 billion dollars.

I'll let you do the calculation. But my point is, it took a lot of conviction, it took a lot of courage to and you apologize to all your LPs. You said sorry. In fact, in 20 years in coastal ventures, it's the only time I made an investment and sent an apology letter to my LPs, saying I'm doing it in.

Anyway, but I realized how foolhardy this looks. But it

takes courage to do that, and I'm proud of our team that everybody got behind it.

You placed the largest initial bet we had ever placed by a factor of two. Now there's no denying open AI is that the clear front runner, it's got something like what, 800 million users actively on it that is getting chipped away out by things like Gemini. I think demassabis is a very worthy opponent in Google, and what they've been shipping there

has been pretty remarkable over the last year. Do you ever worry that open AI could be the first mover disadvantage, where we've seen you know that with Napster, with MySpace, there are all these companies. They defined a category, and then they went,

these companies. They defined a category, and then they went, poof.

You know what I would say to you is, the race is far from over, so I can't guarantee you open eye will be successful. I will

say the following Demis is great. He has a great talent team. So Google's great effort. Anthropic is a good effort. It's

team. So Google's great effort. Anthropic is a good effort. It's

good team. I would venture to guess one of the key areas of competition will be who has the most compute in I think open AI is betting more on Compute. Meta is betting a lot others are.

I also think open AI is doing as much or more research than any of the other major players in terms of things that aren't going into a product immediately. So many people focusing on catching up to open AI and trying to make short term bets. I think open AI is placing more longer term bets. And who

bets. I think open AI is placing more longer term bets. And who

has the lead in the best current model? I think will shift a lot, probably every six months. And so I don't think the battle is over. I wouldn't count out Elan with x ai, but they're far

over. I wouldn't count out Elan with x ai, but they're far behind. You have a track record of picking raw talent early,

behind. You have a track record of picking raw talent early, spotting it, even in founders that have not proven themselves yet. Sam Altman was pretty unproven, looped Y Combinator.

yet. Sam Altman was pretty unproven, looped Y Combinator.

He had some successes, but not great. Jack Dorsey, he had just been fired from Twitter. When you backed square, not only had Jack been fired from Twitter, I like to tell people he had had force failed startups. If you look on Wikipedia, before we back them, look there's a couple of things that matter more than anything else. I think there's going to be even more important in the

else. I think there's going to be even more important in the world of AI values matter. People's values matter. Jack has

great values. I think Sam has great values. You know, he didn't take any equity in open. Ai, despite many chances to do that, that's not why he's doing it. So you mean initially, even now, no equity in open? Ai, yes. You know, people say that's pretty amazing. Nobody believes it. You don't believe it, yeah,

pretty amazing. Nobody believes it. You don't believe it, yeah, but it's true. As far as I know. It's true, but it's not why he's doing it. It's not a financial incentive. And people who grew

doing it. It's not a financial incentive. And people who grew up on Wall Street think it's the only incentive in life. And I

think Wall Street has a really bad set of ethics in general. I

think values matter a lot in picking founders who are on a mission to change things, and I think values will be what we AI will let us have without being distracted by the urgency of expediency, or making supporting your family, or I hope that's

where humans go. High values, being able to speak their mind, being able to not do everything for money. And I think that's what the world of abundance will offer us. I do think it's an important characteristic of entrepreneurs for one important reason, entrepreneurs with good values build better teams, and

better teams is what you need to build a great startup. You've

also spoken about how you believe that the future will be a utopia. It could be, but it could become a dystopia if we do

a utopia. It could be, but it could become a dystopia if we do the wrong things. What do you think is most important for us to get right to achieve the utopia versus dystopia future?

So I'll give you my favorite example today, 2026 robots are not allowed to work in retail on Sundays in Germany.

That's like the stupidest policy you could do, and more of that will assure self destruction for Germany. By the way, retail workers aren't allowed to work on Sundays, so robots aren't allowed to work on Sunday it's just mind blowingly stupid, but it's the power of labor in Germany, and that may prevent.

Them progressing. This is the piece of policy that will be determined by the politics of a country that is very hard to predict. So I think 2030, to 2040 the period I didn't talk

predict. So I think 2030, to 2040 the period I didn't talk about, will be really chaotic, and country by country, different. One thing that's very clear starting 2030, to 2040,

different. One thing that's very clear starting 2030, to 2040, those who use AI will clearly beat those who don't use AI. It

doesn't matter whether it's a company, whether it's a country or a government, and if we restrict its maximum use and maximum benefit, it'll be a problem. Silicon Valley loves to talk about disruption, and it's fun if you're disrupting things.

It's not a lot of fun if you're being disrupted, and if we don't pay attention to the people who are being disrupted in the current administration is flawed there. It's very good about less regulation and wanting to win, very poor about taking care of

the people who need taking care of. I think we'll have chaos in society and maybe break down of social norms, and it'll be very much country by country and politics. Well, Vinod, thank you so much for diving into so much of this. It's really exciting to hear your abundant future concepts, and I know you'll be

there helping to shape it, so we appreciate and we'll be watching Well, thank you sorry for being so verbose. But I'm really passionate about these ideas, and frankly, as I said, I have the freedom to pursue these ideas without needing to worry about all the things most people have to worry about. So

I'm glad I can exercise that you've earned it. I mean, you're the definition of successful capitalism. So congratulations

on that. Thank you.