The Father of the Cable Modem on Broadband, AI & Hype with Rouzbeh Yassini-Fard

Today we're talking to the father of the cable modem, Rusebe Yasini Fard, about how he invented the cable modem and [music] his take on current hype cycles.

Thank you to Digital Ocean for sponsoring this episode. [music] For

simple cloud and powerful AI that's built to scale, visit digital ocean.com or just click the link in the show notes. You're listening to Joel Beasley,

notes. You're listening to Joel Beasley, modern CTO. [music]

modern CTO. [music] you have the title father of the cable modem. How did you get that title? So um

modem. How did you get that title? So um

in 1988 time frame um the editor of the magazine called CED communication um electronic

design um really choose every year a person of the year or man of the years and because I was working in the industry at the time and um trying to uh

for the first time for the cable industry create the momentum for interoperability and delivery of the first certified cable modem which was a

global standard. Uh he valued my work as

global standard. Uh he valued my work as a um individual who was driving everything on that nature working at that time for organization called cable

lab as executive consultant and he happened to choose me for um the title.

In fact, I called him right away when he called me about it. I said, uh, you probably don't want to do that because I keep a low profile and you're not going to get that much advertising uh from the

other um peoples about um in your magazine because as you know magazine live and die with advertising, but he said no, you deserve it. You got it. I'm

going to call you the father of the cable modems and and man of the years.

And that's how started that activity with Roger Brown. Unfortunately, we lost Raja Brown couple years later to a cancer and he was a great friend of mine

in a sense of um helping him to understand the impact of the data communication to the community to the hospitals to education system to the uh

governments how it works and he was a strong writers and did a very nice job to educate the media and um audiences about the power of the cable modem and

as a result the broadband. Were there

several different people trying to create this standard for the cable modem and then yours just got picked? How did

it work?

>> Very good idea. So we go back to 1995 time frame. Uh my company a startup

time frame. Uh my company a startup company L city had done a very good job and we had about 90% market shares in the cable industry at the time for our

proprietary cable modem that we had built. As a result, we had come up with

built. As a result, we had come up with a patented technology on an aspect of the cable modem called let's say data protocol. Um the technical term was a

protocol. Um the technical term was a media access control but we invented the data protocol efficient data protocol that can work over long distance at high

speed using a cable TV infrastructures.

So um the cable industry have an association called cable lab. They put

an RFI back in 1995 thanks to executive of industry Bill Schlier and John Malone that they wanted that the data modems and cable modem to be global

standard where being a proprietary devices. So the cable lab which is an

devices. So the cable lab which is an association of all the cable industry players put an RFI request for informations to get all the information

regarding what technology is available.

We put our technology there for them to analyze to review and there were two other company Broadcom, Treecoms and General Instrument also put their

information in theirs and um as well as maybe 30 40 50 other companies. In the

end uh our friends uh the the cable industry selected general instrument broadcom 3coms and our technology put together to create the standardization

called docsis. That effort started in

called docsis. That effort started in 1996 immediately after the cable industry um show that we had in western

cable TV show in California and took about 3 years and um before the standard become available in real product with interoperability and I was the person in

charge of bringing all the interoperability and innovation between multiple vendors together and that's how the four companies technology came together to create docysis

uh which is stand for data over cable system interfaces specification u to the industry as a standardization.

>> Yeah. There's a lot of similarities between your story and the story of Tahir. Uh do you know him from the

Tahir. Uh do you know him from the father of SSL?

>> Yes. Yeah.

>> Yeah. He he described a very similar he's like there's a lot of people everyone was kind of doing it but he was in you know got involved with with uh creating the standard.

>> Yes. You know the [clears throat] in our industry, cable industry is a very good collaboration industry in a sense that uh if you look at the founding of the

far and the cable industry back in 1940, late 1940, 1950, they were really known as a cowboys in a sense. Well, I mean cowboys because each one had a vision of how to get the cable to the people's

home. Nobody wanted to finance them.

home. Nobody wanted to finance them.

Nobody wanted to give them um loan.

Nobody wanted to really give them recognition for what they were doing.

But yet each individual went and built like 4 500 separate small cable company around the country and then eventually they merge and merge and merge came

together. Now there is a handful maybe a

together. Now there is a handful maybe a dozen left from the 400 that started. So

does the story work the same for the highspeed cable modem. You know nobody wanted to fund it. Nobody wanted to really appreciate it. Nobody wanted to think that why would people need

internet from home? What are they going to do with it? This is 1987, 1988 when I started. Every investors I went to and

started. Every investors I went to and every even cable industry guy I went to, they said, "Well, tell me one more time.

Why would anybody with a clear mind would want to have a computer at home?"

You know, you go to office, [laughter] you play with your computer. Guess what?

Co 2020 showed everybody they were wrong. Right.

wrong. Right.

>> That is wild. It's so crazy. So I Yeah.

To to live in a time where people would argue that ah the personal home computer that's not going to catch on. Exactly.

It's hilarious because we all have them in our pockets now and we're with them 24/7.

>> In fact, if you look at it, Joel, because of the cable modem, we created the broadband era, which broadband era put the Gen Z in complete mobility

world. Because before that most um Gen Z

world. Because before that most um Gen Z when I talk to them in a university they don't even know what dialup was. They

have no clue that we used to wait with a 28.8 kilobits per second modem and hear bips and a burps and maybe the phone get connected maybe doesn't. They came to the mobility world and all the mobility

awards foundation and the backbone is driven on the broadband infrastructure.

>> Oh I remember the day broadband came out. I was very well at least the day

out. I was very well at least the day that we got it. My dad was a software and hardware engineer, so we always had the latest technology. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

>> Which company was he working for?

>> He was working for a company that invented the screens that go inside golf carts.

>> I see. Got it.

>> So, you know, they track GPS and so my childhood is like the smell of my childhood is like baked electronics in the garage.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, >> that's cool. [laughter]

>> Yeah. So, I grew up around it and then he just always I would always get his old computer, >> you know. Yeah. So, I had a uh a 100 foot uh phone cable that would go from

the one phone outlet in the center of the house and wire that into my room and it would just I'd pick it I would run it after school. I'd get to use it until my

after school. I'd get to use it until my parents came home and then they'd be like, "Clean up the cable." And then I would have to undo it. Yeah. Yeah.

[laughter] >> So, I remember that big transition from the 56k to what did he get? He got at work he got like a T1

port. Yeah. Meghertz. Yeah. Yeah, that

port. Yeah. Meghertz. Yeah. Yeah, that

was fun. And then we got and then broadband all of a sudden overnight just became everybody had it. Like no one had dialup anymore. It was just everybody

dialup anymore. It was just everybody had it >> and uh the internet was fast. It was

great.

>> How did Okay. So [laughter] when I was preparing for this interview, I read something about M&M's and gummy bears being involved in in the company. You

got to you got to tell me more about that.

>> Sure. So the story was we were a small company, very frugal. We had to work sometime two shift and three shift uh in order to accomplish the goals we had. We

were a small number of engineers, handful, maybe about 20 altogether, 13 employees at a time, seven advisors. And

what I used to have, I used to have some um started actually with the gummy bears first uh that I had in my office. And um

instead of calling a meeting, the guys will come and grab one or two gummy bears and then we talk about the goals or objective whatever we had on that given day. Um and then sometimes my um

given day. Um and then sometimes my um staff uh would come on the second shift if in order to test that they were running to see what the result looks like and run another test overnight that

when they come tomorrow is in a better situation to see what result we have to do and they would bring their daughters or sons um with them either from the sport activities or picking up from the

schools or whatever. And then the kids got used to pick up gummy bears and things of that natures. And then we I moved from Gummy Bear to Eminem and the same as Jody during the meeting times

and when the people the worker will come for second third shift the kids would come and grab it. So, in the end of the week, we were almost going to 10 lb of

the gummy bears and M&M's. And that was a way for us a to meet naturally, but b more more as a way for the kids who come

have something to um eat and and play with or sometimes in the nature while their fathers or their mother was helping uh to get the second set of the test running. That's how we build two

test running. That's how we build two shift or third shift to work. But more

important than gummy bears and and M&M's was that we also used to bring before Silicon Valley even existed, we used to treat our employees with the homemade

foods. We bring homemade foods and um

foods. We bring homemade foods and um and have it there in our little kitchens and the guys will had it for the second shift again and sometime they will stay because of the good food coming in from

what my mom used to cook and uh and that was another way to keep my employees longer at office uh to work and get more productivity because we just didn't have

enough time and enough money you know.

>> Was this your first company? Land city.

L city from the um innovation and startup yes was my first company. I had

12 other companies after that that I work as a serial entrepreneur. Prior to

that I used to work with a company called General Electric GE. In GE I learned how the TV cable TV works and then I joined another company after join electric called Proteion and the

Proteion was making data networking highspeed lands and a combination of the two experience between the LAN company which taught me data networking. GE

which teach me about cable TV and television system gave me the idea that wow what about data over cable system wouldn't that be good way to get the

people why because your probably your father will appreciate that up to 1987 Joel there was only two type of a network the low speed long distance that was

using the phone line and then a dialup modem and then high speed short distance which is the local networking So nobody had high speeded long distance which is

what we innovated uh with our land city solution. So that's how the story came

solution. So that's how the story came about my vision of creating my startup and I'm building the land city which I gave it the name LAN city simply because

take the local network citywide was a really easy way to tell the marketing story of my uh technology.

>> I love that. And then how did you finance the the business? Did you use cash that you had saved? Did you get a contract like early on to start it? How

did you bridge that gap?

>> So we had four um uh level of the um uh evolution in our startup. The first uh and the most important was we did some consulting and um we used the consulting

money to be able to develop our prototype. Soon after that, we were able

prototype. Soon after that, we were able to work um with the um universities, hospitals, government bases and sell some of our prototype at a high price of

$18,000, which is really what it cost us to make. And that brought the second

to make. And that brought the second part of the revenue to us. Uh then

thirdly, I was working with a company that you might recall, Digital Equipment Corporation, known as a deck. Deck was a really well known in Ethernet activity

and connectivity. So we work with them

and connectivity. So we work with them and we show them that hey your Ethernet that goes over a mile I can get that Ethernet go over 200 mile and they

called the cable model by then at that time ETV Ethernet over cable TV and they were able to help me with some financing to be able to integrate my technology

and build siliconization and that one that was a third aspect and the last uh when we were able to uh build our second generation we started selling that

product and we self finance it from that one. The venture capitalist and the

one. The venture capitalist and the cable industry did not believe a that cable industry will be able to handle and manage data to the consumer and b

that they were able the venture capitalist didn't think they can recover any investment they make in that area.

So both cable industry and venture capitalist did not want to fund us. So

we did self-funding what I call earn to grow which is how it worked for us.

>> That's how I've done my three companies.

>> Good for you.

>> It works very well, right? It's organic,

you know.

>> Yeah. Well, the I think it's a critical part of the product validation, >> right? Like if if it's such a pain, if

>> right? Like if if it's such a pain, if there's so much pain that people are willing to pay almost before a solution exists or for consulting to help to figure out the problem, then there's enough pain for them to purchase a

really good version of a product that solves that problem, >> right?

>> And um I always tell the people this is where the product does the talking instead of the PowerPoint. What a better goal and a better objective that your product does the talking and uh and when

you sell the product and the customers look at it and then play with it. A you

get a lot more feedback from them regarding the product and b you can actually work with the customers and really be able to mature the product faster. So I really call that models

faster. So I really call that models very useful model >> and then at what point was land city you were like we this is gone as far as it's going to go. Did you sell it? what

happened with it?

>> Um, you got all the right questions, Joel. That's cool. [laughter] So, it was

Joel. That's cool. [laughter] So, it was around um 1996 time frame that um that um we had a low cost product instead of

a $18,000 product, we had a $295 product. Nine out of the top 10 MSOs on

product. Nine out of the top 10 MSOs on the major big MSOs were my customer.

We had about 400 ms overall as our customer. We were growing almost from $0

customer. We were growing almost from $0 in in 1990 uh revenue per quarters to almost $40 million revenue. And some of

the cable industry um colleague was saying, "Hey, Roots Bay, we like your product, we like your technology, but you're just a small company and we don't want to risk our business of highspeed

data over that." So, and then I talked with my employees. My employees who all had mortgages to pay uh send kids to the college, they always were saying, "Hey, a bird in a hand is better than two in

the bush." So, if you put the

the bush." So, if you put the combination of what employees wanted and what my customer were saying was a right approach to be able to get a bigger

company owns us in order to be able to entertain both the customer side and reward my employees. Um I used to run my company in a common m methodology you

know talk with everybody get a common sense approach to do that and within that methodology I was able to sell the company to bay network which later bay

network was sold to Nortell Nortell was sold to Ari was sold to come scope and now comes scopes own that so uh uh

that's how the um evolution of the land city from uh 1987 concept and vision I had to 1996 happened. We had to exit and

provide a larger manufacturers and a company with a larger cash to be able to be in the front of the cable industry.

>> A pretty smart move too because that was right before the dot situation. But I

give you an examples. If you look at um the technology, the cable industry moved as a result of our technology from being a video ccentric to a telecommunication.

Back in 1990, the total valuation of cable industry was not even hund00 million. Today is

well over multiple trillion dollars. So

if you look at from investment point of view, the cable industry took a lot of value, good benefit. And when we gave our technology to a standardization, we didn't collect any royalties. We gave

our technology for free to the industry to use as well.

>> That's cool. That is really cool. Real

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to the episode.

>> So, you you exit, you've built wealth, you've done right by your customers and your employees, and you've got this experience now of understanding these

cycles of technology. How do you spend your time then?

So um the company was sold in 1996 and as I mentioned to you from the way I got my title of the father of the cable modem was because of the effort I did

from 1996 to 1999 and then through 2002 to get a standardization and interoperability to be done. After that

you might have heard about the streaming. We work with the two of the

streaming. We work with the two of the cable industry leaders number one and number two and we created the first standard setup box which does a

streaming to the people's home and by the way we actually tested the streaming for the first time in 1993 again the response why would I want to stream the

video is already comes over the broadcast error you know so and so between until 2008 I was working in that uh capacity of the standard ization for

the industries and additional feature like a streaming setup boxes. Parallel

to that I was working as a angel venture capitalist working with other startup either as a co-founders as a board

members as a chairman or as advisors to help and assist them to be able to get um couple of different technology uh to the um industries and that continued all

the way up to the 2017 when I officially retired myself from working on the startups because as you know better than anybody else having three under your belt at some point

there is no more challenge to really create company and build company and I turn my energy to what I call my foundation and our foundation does a

scholarship uh research on them um cancers be able to do a cultural events and things of that nature that we pursue at this point >> is that what's like genuinely fulfilling

to you right now >> yes yes because nothing is more rewarding for me to see the young generation, the post-doal, the PhDs, the

master degree students have the opportunity to if they want to be entrepreneur to learn from someone who has done it before and has some

experience or if they want to be able to um innovate their ways and they wanted to know what are the easiest way to be able to do and most of the speaking opportunity that I do try to talk about

those and some scholarship that I provides to universities or individuals is all towards giving the new generation an opportunity to create an ambiance

that when I was in the startup leaders was not available and was not there for us.

>> Is any of this information in your book the accidental network? Yes, there are some in there but you can also go to my yasfoundation.com and yasfoundation.com you will see uh my

fourpillar of the foundations and um all that information is there as well.

>> So young hungry people looking to grow and change a marketplace they can go to this Yas foundation and they can correct they can learn these pillars. All right

Josh will include a link in the show notes so that we have that information.

We'll also include a link to your book.

Is it available on Amazon? Yes, it's

amazon.com. The accidental networks.

>> Nice. How long ago did you write that?

>> So, we started the book on October 2022 and we finished it and publish it on September 2025. So, 35 months and 4 days

September 2025. So, 35 months and 4 days actually.

>> So, it was a long process. However, I

had a co-authors Mr. Steuart Shelly for helping tremendously and uh with the steward's help we were able to select

WVU press as our publishers and um and um fort was our public relation firms and work you know it takes number of the

edits number of reviews number of the uh um structures on writing a book these days and I'm very happy because they captured a story that was not told

almost everybody asked me why did you write a book now. I said, well, I was so busy from age 25 to the when I was 60 years old to deliver the broadband

globally and uh and babysit my technology to make sure to do all all it it does and nobody told the story of the broadband. America did a great things

broadband. America did a great things for the world. What we did first we invented the cable modem then we created a business models around the cable

modem. Then we empower the cable

modem. Then we empower the cable industry to move from video system to the voice data video and we telecommunication pipe. Then we

telecommunication pipe. Then we standardize it and then we give it as a gift to the world to use. Right? And as

I told you I provide my technology royalty fleas and in this nature not collecting any money in any nature. So

if you look at that that's the story of American apple pie. You know, American apple pie is a is a recipe we created.

People's loves it and everybody eats it around the world. And I thought the story of the broadband need to be told.

The story of the broadband and impact it has on economy, the impact it has in the global uh humanity, the impact that has in the healthcare, education, the way

the government runs the business. You

know I wrote a book around 2003 called planet broadband and I listed at that time 83 different services and application that a broadband will enable and everybody said why would anybody

wants to do those application services for you know and guess what all of them are now uh very simplistically being

used every single times. Now, in those four pillars, is there a way like do you cover out all this this ability to see the the waves like the difference

between hype and reality uh on new technologies? Is that in there or is

technologies? Is that in there or is that just >> not and that's what I do and I love to do with my interviews. I go to universities and speaks. I go to um and

the mentorship of the startups and I share them with them. But uh because we are such a dynamic for example look at the broadband infrastructure broadband

infrastructure now is one of the key fundamental pieces of the AI revolution.

If you really didn't have high speeded broadband connectivity how would you have different experience different users around the globe to actually be able to train these models. It's because

of the access to the broadband that training these models is become to be more practical and more realistic and more educational that that captures a

lot of variety of informations there. So

um I love to speak and I go around um and um and do as many of them I can and to answer specific question that you ask and I will add the flavors depending if

it's AI depending if it's a digital sensors that need to be used or quantum computing which are really three major elements that is revolutionizing the

world that you and I are living in now.

>> Yeah. You know I didn't even think about broad broadband's impact on AI. Yeah.

There's the connectivity today, but there's also the past 20, 30 years of the technology existing. So people

adopted it, people could publish more, it could collect more information as a network as a whole. So that when the technology to train models comes about, there's there's a huge data set. So it

kind of all works together, which is beautiful, >> right? In fact, if you go to my other

>> right? In fact, if you go to my other website, which my technical website, yas.com, if you go there, you'll see there's an articles there that we just

put up as well. Um um if you look at my technology originally back in 1996, we had 10 megabits over 6 MHz. That's what

the standard cable TV channel was. And

now on the same infrastructure, we are putting almost 10 gigabits in the frequency spectrum to come. All because

of the technology. And we created a chart that shows how the evolution of the high-speed data has been. I mean,

you know better than I do that 20 years ago, we didn't even have a 1 gigabit to national science foundations, you know, and and now the speeds has come so far,

so fast and the prices are so reasonable that that almost every household can um afford to have this type of thing. Yet

in America, we got about 30 million people not connected, which is really bothers me. And I'm hoping before my

bothers me. And I'm hoping before my days are over, we will have someone in government really put top priority.

Maybe even when President um Trump sign an executive order that says, "Hey, we like to have ubiquous broadband connectivity for all America." And then he will be the next president and just

like Eisenhower did with the highway system that he will get credits for bringing the ubiquity of the broadband to every homes.

>> Yeah. Are you a fan of Starlink?

>> I'm very much so. I'm at this point in my careers I'm fan of any broadband methodology methodology that gets the people home. Satellite is one way you

people home. Satellite is one way you know fibers from the phone companies another way the cable industry has a way the fixed wireless is another one and

the power companies have a way to be able to do that. So as long as American gets their broadband is good with me.

>> Yeah. I saw my first uh Starlink deployment on a walk like two nights ago. I was good for you. How did you

ago. I was good for you. How did you like it?

>> It was I saw it and then I had I was like, "Where have I seen this before?"

Cuz I had seen a picture and an article of it before online. I'd never seen it in person. And I was walking and it was

in person. And I was walking and it was just you could see it for about 2 or 3 minutes and we were out with our neighbors and we were walking with the kids and the dogs and everything and I'm like, "Look, there it is."

>> It was magnificent, man. It made me feel like I'm a part of this this better future.

>> Yeah.

>> We're really lucky. I tell you in in America we are blessed to have all this high speed connectivity at the very reasonable um pricing and um and allow

the peoples to do what broadband did Joel that made every consumer of information at home to be a producer.

Look at all this influence people's look at all the way that people's not creating job at their home and and be able to contribute to our economy. I

mean the almost a $2.6 trillion dollar of our GDP comes from broadband and broadband enabled services and it's really remarkable.

>> Well, it's been my primary source of income for about 10 years and just through this podcast and before that uh it was me using broadband to work remotely to write software applications.

And so >> there you go.

>> I have spent I'm 38. I've spent my entire life earning money through broadband highspeed internet engagements in various forms. Yeah,

>> it truly has revolutionized the way we work, live and communicate. And one of the impact was of the broadband. I have

so many example to tell you and I won't bore you with that. you know, I went to Toyota city, 400 kilometer north of um Tokyo and and there were people who

recognized who I was at the time when I was traveled in 1995 and said, "Oh, Mr. Yini, we are using your cable modem here to connect from the rice field, you

know, to the Toyota office." And it was really refreshing, you know, to see how far the technology has allow the people immediate access. I

call it anything anywhere anytime. Now

it used to be a person comes to the western world get educated and by time get a job and experience take 20 years before that person goes back in his own cultures or

in north country to contribute what he has learned. Now that thing happening

has learned. Now that thing happening instantaneously right instantaneously >> you just live stream it. [laughter]

Okay. There's a million questions I could ask you about these these conversations that you're having at colleges, these speeches that you're giving about hype and and reality and

the gap, but there's really only one that like that I that I think would help me understand uh what's going on there. So my question for you is when you're giving these

talks about the gap between hype and reality and the technology waves at the colleges, I'm sure it's 30 minutes to an hour long talk, but there's got to be one point

where you see that those students like really lean in and that you really have that like one really strong point that captures their attention. Uh what what is that?

>> You know, Joel, um I tell you exactly what that is. Every time that um I start a conversation, we share with them uh how the innovation works, how

entrepreneurship works, I also remind them that remembers 98 99% of the startup company always fail. Why is

that? Well, the majority of those failed companies are the one that keep doing PowerPoint and keep doing with the papers what this idea or vision that they have it does. I tell them instead

of spending all your time and efforts and money there be among that 1% build the prototype build the MVP minimum

viable product let the product does the talking take that to a first customer that you believe in can really utilize that product in the most effective way.

So build your prototype, take it to a customer, let the product does the talking and bring that energy back to your uh team and develop the lower cost,

better package version of that and you'll be a success. If you look at um all the good companies, look at Apple for example, how did Apple got started?

Look at the Netflix. Look at the Google.

All these were sitting in a garage or small home and created a technology or product that did something first and then they went and talk with the others.

That's where I see the people's u eyeball goes right up and and and they say, "Oh yeah, maybe the product can do a better job than a PowerPoint." And um

and I think it's a successor story is really written on that.

Do they have you ever gotten into talking with them about like how to interview people for problems or how to discover problems that are worth building a solution for?

>> I have always mentioned to the students and entrepreneurs that failure is your friend. What that really means? You

friend. What that really means? You

learn from the thing that it failed. You

learn from the bad story. I learned so many things in my cable modem because residential cable TV used to be known as a source system that you put good things in it and bad things [snorts] comes out

of it. Right? That's what the the

of it. Right? That's what the the university professor used to say. But

when I took my technology to multiple different cable side and test it and find this issue uh a I could be scared and say oh my failed or b I could come

back and try to solve that. And I always take my engineers with me and let them to hear from the customer, let them to see the problem. And that was really effective way that made the ownership of

the problem a lot faster and resolution to it even faster. So um so the bottom line is the failures are good friend of

ours and teach us many things and um as long as you are know identify a known problem and you think you have a nice gadget or nice jewel who solved that

problem and you're not afraid of their failures you have nothing to lose in a startup company.

>> I love that that is great advice. Uh AI

big thing right now huge transformative technology that's occurring all around us. Do you think we're in a bubble? Do

us. Do you think we're in a bubble? Do

you think it's like where do you think we're at in that cycle?

>> So AI has a lot of great benefit. AI can

helps the medical field. AI can helps the education and um the AI infrastructures is not there yet. The AI chips are there from

there yet. The AI chips are there from Nvidia, AMD, Broadcom and all the others. But the infrastructure, end to

others. But the infrastructure, end to end system, end to end qualification and diagnostic and testability, end to end performance, what you and I used to call

bit error rate for example for highspeed data equivalent of those doesn't exist for AI or if it exists is not really publicized yet, you know. And so those

part needs to come together before a full AI end to end can be tested. Those

who thinks we're going to have superhuman 6 months from or 9 months from now they're hyping. This is not going to happen in 6 to9 months because infrastructure is not there. those who

thinks we can get our AI model, we can build the diagnostic, we can build the test plan, we can build calibration and the quality evaluations around it, we can build some standards to decide if

the AI really doing the right things or the wrong thing, those are on the right track. So depending which direction the

track. So depending which direction the people wants to um take the AI, if they want to hype it, you can hype it. If you

want to build the infrastructures, build a better quality AI, we are in that path in my view which is very helpful. And

then there's a third part to make sure the training of these modules are done in a manners that are not biased by one company or another company instead is

more what are called have a collective feedbacks of the university profession the customers the people's on different countries and so on so forth because how

sad would it be European guys create their own train model and US do their own train model got to be some collaborations right on those nature. So

will it be a bubbles? I'll leave that to the financial guys and the stock market to decide. But is the AI the good thing?

to decide. But is the AI the good thing?

AI is a great thing if and only if is fully tested and fully valued before it comes to market. I teach you one things Joel. Internet did one thing bad for the

Joel. Internet did one thing bad for the consumer. Before internet, you you used

consumer. Before internet, you you used to have the companies that build the product, test the product completely, ship your hardware and software in a

functional unit. After internet, the

functional unit. After internet, the people and the companies said, you know what, just ship the hardware and then couple months later when the guy customers get the hardware, we will ship

the software, load it on it, let the customer test to see if this stuff works or doesn't work. Right? And and you and I have been on receiving end you know because by the time they ship the

product to the warehouse from the warehouse goes to Amazon lookalike by the time you order it you get it is four five six seven months right so that payload they were using to develop the

software that make that piece of a hardware which was dead at the time of a shipment to be functional well I hope AI doesn't do that would be very sad to

ship these models and then let's say we're gonna you parachute in the software somehow and a module to works because the side effects could be dangerous, right? The side

effects of those could be dangerous. So,

I'm I'm one of those old-fashioned engineers that says at the board levels in the AI companies, at the executive levels, at the operational level, at the

development level, we need to have very nice end to end what we call a group of the um highly unbiased people to

validate, test, qualify this AI stuff before it gets published.

>> Are you using any AIS like on a day-to-day basis? I do that of course

day-to-day basis? I do that of course and I I do it for one main reason um in certain area I'm a subject matter expert

and I try to use to see how real these models are and I have to tell you so far I haven't find one that is that accurate that replace me as a human being at least not today maybe tomorrow

>> it can't replace you you're the father of the game replaceable but that's my way of the testing that module to see if it really works right if it really does

things because I know in the depth certain materials and um and the AI module have not been able to do that for me yet.

>> So you are playing with the technology.

>> Yes, of course.

>> Awesome. Yeah, that's you're you'd be surprised at how many people I I talk with that they're they're not playing with it like in their personal lives.

like they'll use it at work or they'll run a project, they'll have an AI initiative. But I found that and I and I

initiative. But I found that and I and I I kind of steered away from it for a while too, even being such a so involved with the technology world. I'd say about a year ago is when it picked it up and

it's become part of like an everyday thing for me now. Like I'll often go to Grock before I even go to Google >> and you know one one area is that

sometime the new technology intimidating sometimes the people's but I always tell the people on the AI side especially the university students that don't try to

use AI in a way that you're not comfortable with. Ask AI and use AI in a

comfortable with. Ask AI and use AI in a way that if you want to innovate or if you wanted to do a process automation to see how it will helps you to do that

better because if you learn about AI and the capability of AI and what it does, you are now more powerful to be able to become a useful. For example, pick up a

construction company, pick up a hairdressing company, pick up a a uniform company, pick up a construction company. If I know a AI and how to apply

company. If I know a AI and how to apply AI, then I can go to those company and says, "Hey, this piece of your company could do a better job with this type of

simplification or this type of automation or this type of of mathematical analysis in a lot faster, cheaper way. you know even painting your

cheaper way. you know even painting your house you know uh you can come up with the what I call uh module to be able to assist and get those done. So if you

focus on those area then you kind of naturally adopt AI to do something useful for you.

>> I I want to talk a little bit about leadership for the CTOs and and technology leaders that are listening.

So shrinking the cycle between hype and delivery. Uh that that's some that's

delivery. Uh that that's some that's like a core skill of a CTO, right? It's

a critical role that they play. Uh they

don't always get credit for it, but could you explain a little bit more about what that means? Shrinking the

cycle between hype and delivery.

>> Yeah. So you know, let me give you first a real example. In my case when I had the vision in 1987 we built a prototype and then from prototype I made a business cable modem and then made

personal cable modem. I could have when I made the prototype I could have made a quick decision to shrink the baby and run to the market as fast but I didn't because I wanted to build the features

and the function that I thought would be essential in my technology that years from my life I can work. So instead of just shrinking the things we reinvented

the technology, rebuild it and made the manners that 10 megabits of the 1996 can be 10 gabits of the today. That cycle

took 9 years because we had to do old-fashioned analog components to build and then we have to go half analog, half digital then full siliconization and the

software development to get there.

Thanks to number of the tools in our toolbox these days. Now you can go from innovation to a product in 18 months or 12 months or 9 months pending if you are

not biased by saying I have to invent everything by myself. I have to invent everything in my department or my office. So depending to the type of a

office. So depending to the type of a product or form of the product. For

example, in car industry, it still takes four years for a car get manufactured and designed to comes out there.

However, in the case of the app and in case of the mobility devices, you could do this in a 30 days to 60 days because

the wide hardware can be used very quickly to be able to do that. So my

advice to CTO's on product developments and a hype to the reality is that scope your product to see where it fits and

use off of off um uh a street tools and and um and and softares and the services that are available and then focus on the

real core jewel that make sense for you and um and expedite the delivery.

Today's I can tell you that uh a development of a product that takes 2 years to four years is not even financable anymore because nobody no venture capitalist wants to be around

that. Uh however the quality matters and

that. Uh however the quality matters and the quality makes a difference. size

makes difference and we have learned from number of the companies how they have done a good job on industrial design and things of that nature because we are in a software world now and

because software has a lot of power where it used to be not as much and because software can run on generic um hardware look at the routing for example

that was invented by Juniper Cisco and all the other company now you can almost do your own routers by just getting hardares and getting off the shelf open source code and put them all togethers,

right? The idea comes to valuation and

right? The idea comes to valuation and qualification. So, put your effort in

qualification. So, put your effort in automation, put your effort on software validation and put your effort in minimum viable product that you want to

make sense and um and and do your best and between 9 months to 15 months you should be able to do a very sophisticated product to the market these days. Are you still doing advisory

these days. Are you still doing advisory stuff or have you just retired completely from that and just on the foundation now?

>> I do the I do advisory for friends and uh what are called colleagues that I still been connected. One thing has changed Joel in our time 30 years ago 40

years ago we had a lot of great trust you know people work together trust each others and help but with today's generations of the entrepreneurs and the valuing that trust is really not much

there I don't feel it there therefore I'm not excited as much um to um is everything about the money is everything about billions not even millions anymore

right in my era I was very exced decided to connect billions of the people's high speed data and not be a billionaires but today people are really excited oh I got

a valuation of x billions and we raise that billion is really all measured with the money and not what are you making impact to the society to the humanity to

the planet earth and those are really less values so I'm an oldfashioned guy as a result u it's harder for me to get motivated to work with some of these

people who are just financially interested in winning big and winning fast.

>> Yeah. I don't know. I I've always kind of been I've gone through different phases. I would say in my early 20s I

phases. I would say in my early 20s I was like that and then I realized that you don't need that much to have a great life. Like to have an unbelievable life.

life. Like to have an unbelievable life.

You don't need that. You don't need billions. You don't need hundreds of

billions. You don't need hundreds of millions. Like you you can have a great

millions. Like you you can have a great life with a lot less than what I initially thought in my early 20s. And

once I realized that, I started to value time more. I would hear these people who

time more. I would hear these people who are farther ahead of me in life say, "I would give up all of my money and everything just to be 30 again." And I said, "Okay, well, I keep hearing that

and I keep hearing it a lot." So, and then that caused me to switch my perspective to looking at time as the most valuable commodity over money. And

yes, you have to have like a certain floor, like a certain level of money to to live in the Maslo's hierarchy of needs where you need to be, but uh valuing time differently is something

that changed in my 30s.

>> You're very wise, Joel. And I wish that people be able to get to your point at the age 30, at age 20 and 18, and when they start entrepreneurship because

you know, we only got one planet Earth that we know the life the way you and I feel about it exists. the air pollution, the water pollutions are real stuff.

They are not imaginary. Uh so we have to be really conscious about what we developing, how much um noise we putting into the system and what's the noise to

signal ratio that is creating self signal to noise ratio here. So um if we don't really have the perspective on reality of does my contribution helps

planet earth does it help humanity and yes does it follow the capitalism which is the best system we know in the world that works does it have that spirit but

um if we put the priorities in the right way and I think humanity is going to be much more um in ease and better off in the near futures because it's not the

number of the apps in the app store that makes our life better is a number of the healthy people who can live longer and enjoy the beauty of the planet earth

with the lesser stress and the more quality of the time with their families and the friends that build a community that our childrens are better off uh after us and that's really should be the

essence which I think is missing in some of the entrepreneur these days >> it is but I do have hope because a lot of the people that I'm around they They really genuinely want to make life

better and so and they and they do it through by using capitalism. You know,

wealth is is a byproduct of making life better for other people at scale. So

they they do it, you know, from from that aspect. But yeah, I would there

that aspect. But yeah, I would there there's always some uh you know, not great people hanging around out there.

My job, what I have learned is to uh I create my own echo chamber of great people. And I'm like poor I'm like I'm

people. And I'm like poor I'm like I'm going to stay around these great people who are doing what I believe is the right thing to do who have moral systems that are similar to mine and uh that

that's the current strategy that I'm using for example Julie cancer detection one of the deadliest disease we have against the humanity and part of it is

because of the bad food that we eat part of it because of bad air part of it is because of the you know genetic. So

there is a lot of technology available to us to help do the cancer detections and do it right you know and and and I'm looking forward to really see uh the

technology innovation entrepreneurship used to solve this type of problem and I'm very strong supporter of capitalism love the capitalism as you said is an

excellent way to reward entrepreneurs but um we are hoping to be able to put them in a balance with each others. What

are you doing with cancer detection?

>> Well, you know the there are number of company that I work with and number of the universities and hospitals I fund uh research and stuff and um pancreatic

cancer is very close to my heart. I have

lost a family members to that and I hope to be able to get a dent to that somehow with this detection and so there are some photonic technology being used

around um the um for the high-tech stuff but you can actually use a photonic to sample the blood tests a lot faster with a lot more patterns than you bring the

AI into it that says ah a protein made by cancers can look like this and if you sample a blood faster with this protein looks like that and and by doing that

you might be able to detect the certain cancers a lot faster and and like in case of pancreatic cancers is very difficult if you don't detect it early um you know it's really too late to

respond to it >> so two three four months can make a matter of life and death you know and so I focus on some of that area >> that's interesting and so you're helping

like fund newer technologies is for earlier detection.

>> Yes, >> that's pretty cool.

>> Yeah. I lost my mom to leukemia. She had

a stomach ache. She went into the hospital and they said uh within they found out that she had leukemia and they're like well she should you know with treatment and stuff be like five

five years or so and we said okay and she was gone six weeks later. So

>> wow.

>> Yeah.

>> That's exactly the story with the pancreatic cancer. [clears throat] by

pancreatic cancer. [clears throat] by the time they detect it within a matter of the few weeks.

>> Let's wrap up on some leadership advice.

This is one of my my favorite questions that I have. But uh I'm I'm going to ask you for a piece of leadership advice, but there's going to be constraints. And

the constraints are it's something someone told you, you implemented it, it made a noticeable impact on your management and leadership, and you've

kept it in your repertoire to today. So

like a time-t tested true piece of advice that you have actual experience with.

>> So you know I had very great mentors in general electrics um when I was um learning my um career experience and I noticed all those elder managers never

expected me to do something that they would not do it by themselves. So I

learned from those managers that before you go ask a employee to do something you better be able to do it by yourself and be shoulder by shoulder with them to do. So I took that to the heart and when

do. So I took that to the heart and when I created my startup I was hands-on manager which means I would go in the engineering bench. I would go in the

engineering bench. I would go in the marketing. I go to the sales I go to the

marketing. I go to the sales I go to the finance and do exactly what those guys were doing to show them that I'm in the same level as they are. that helped me

to build my comrades in a very trusted way and instead of then asking them let's do this let's do that why don't you do it this way why don't you do that

way we will always collaborate so the combination of having handson and also contributes uh to what they were doing

daily as well as uh trusting them that uh they know more details better than that one my um leadership skills was And

that one hands on management which means trust them validate the uh you know approach that they have and work with them to get their style done and as a

result all the engineers all the marketing all the sales people are working with me love my style because they were looking at me almost as a fatherly figures versus a managerial figures. I never told them hey I'm the

figures. I never told them hey I'm the president I'm the CEO I'm the founder you got to do what I tell you. Not once.

And I think that brought a lot of credibility when we were in the foxhole togethers and had a hard times to do which are a couple of the thing that my books captures in some of the critical

area. So I trust my staff and I was

area. So I trust my staff and I was hands-on with them and um and that combination of you know uh being able to show them that um we're in the same

foxhole help a lot.

>> I love that Rose. Well, we made a podcast. Thank you so much for coming on

podcast. Thank you so much for coming on and and sharing all of this great insight. How do you feel?

insight. How do you feel?

>> I love it.

>> Thank you so much for listening. And if

you found this episode useful, please share it with a friend or a colleague who you think would [music] get value from it. And if you have topics that you

from it. And if you have topics that you would like to hear discussed on the podcast, either add me on LinkedIn or send me an email, joel@modernctto.io.

Every time I get an email or LinkedIn message, it absolutely makes my day [music] and inspires me to keep going.