The Lady Who Makes Millionaires: The PPF Framework That 10x Your Income In 5 Years!

In order to be successful, you have to

be able to communicate your ideas, who

you are, and your point of view. And so,

I use three steps in every communication

that can be used for getting a

promotion, laying people off. It could

be used to persuading your significant

other, "Where are you going to go to

dinner that night?" And it allowed me to

go from being in a room where I couldn't

have a conversation with people and

crippled with anxiety and fear to

co-founding two nine-figure businesses,

helping over 15,000 business owners

scale their organizations, as well as

helping people unpack the strategies

that the top 1% of people use to gain

wealth and success that are different

than 99% of people who can't create the

wealth that they've always wanted. Like

they prioritize being respected over

being liked.

>> And where else do people go wrong here?

>> Well, ultimately this comes down to the

character of the person. If the person

isn't somebody who wants to win, who

doesn't sacrifice, you cannot get to

where you want to go. Now, of course,

you could try to hack success, but if

you did it by putting in the effort, you

don't have this anxiety that it's all

going to come crashing down because you

know that you could redo it and it's

never burnoutinducing. That's a

misconception about hard work. You're

not a candle. You can't burn out.

>> What about passive income? Because the

idea that you can make income and do is

unbelievably compelling.

>> Well, before you have a million dollars,

don't even think about passive income.

Instead, use your calendar as a

representation of what you find to be

important with the goals that you have

every single day.

>> But if someone at home isn't quite clear

on their goals, what should they be

doing?

>> I have a three-step methodology for goal

setting that I have rolled out to

thousands of people and it's called PPF

and it's transformed my life. So, the

first is

>> I see messages all the time in the

comment section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple, it's the free thing

that anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double check if you've subscribed and uh

thank you so much because in a strange

way you are you're part of our history

and you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank

you

Natalie. For my viewers that have just

clicked on this conversation, what is

the reason that you think it's important

for them to stay and listen to what

we're going to talk about today? and all

of the things that you've spent your

career understanding.

>> If you are somebody who has really

struggled with working hard and putting

in the effort and the energy, but you

don't actually have wealth to show for

it. This conversation is important

because wealth should come from hard

work on the right set of problems. And

so you have to ask yourself the

question, what problems do I work on

every single day? And whether you're a

team member in an organization, whether

you're a leader in an organization, a

business owner in an organization, you

should be able to objectively point at

my work here generated this result. And

so if I'm upset with this result,

meaning I haven't made the wealth, I

haven't created the income that I want,

it would make sense that where you're

spending your time and the problems that

you're solving are not tied to your

actual goal of increasing your wealth.

And when it comes to wealth, I do think

that we are in a wealth crisis across

the globe. I think that there is so much

confusion and misunderstanding about

financial literacy and what's actually

happening with who is making money, how

they're making money, what they're

spending their time on. And so this

conversation I'm very much looking

forward to unpacking what are the

strategies that people use the 1% for

their time, for their investments, for

their skills, for their mindset that are

just different than 99% of people who

can't seem to get ahead and create the

wealth that they've always wanted.

>> And so as you sit here now, what is your

business? What's the scale of the

business? And uh what does it do? Yeah,

over the last six years, I co-founded

two businesses that are both nine

figures today. One is a management

consulting investment firm. It's called

Cardone Ventures, and we help small

business owners grow and scale their

organizations. So, I work with business

owners on a daily basis who will be

doing $3 million in annual revenue. They

want to know, how do I become one of the

fewer that is able to have a $5 million

a year business or a $10 million a year

business? because they really realized

that $3 million a year doesn't actually

create financial security. And that

business was started in 2019. And then

our second business, 10X Health, we

purchased a health business back in 2023

and today is helping people all over the

world and it's a nine figure business.

>> So you're on that first business. How

many business owners have you worked

with?

>> Total business owners that have come

through our programs would be over

15,000. what what are the range of

things you're helping them with?

>> Great question. So, there's education.

Yeah. There's consulting, there's

services, and there's investing. So,

think of us like the McKenzie for small

businesses. We reverse engineer their

current market, what they're doing, what

their products, services, offerings are,

and we give back to them either in the

form of actual services where we will do

their marketing for them, we will

recruit people for them, we will do

their bookkeeping for them. But then we

also have a massive events component of

our business where we train business

owners on how to hire, how to recruit

themselves. So they don't need to hire

us to do it. I actually prefer it when

people don't hire us to do this because

I think it's so important for business

owners and the leaders inside those

teams to actually get the competence in

that skill. So if you use Yeah. have

hiring or their books. If if business

owners don't understand how to read a

P&L and the importance of a balance

sheet, they're always going to abdicate

that work to somebody else. And at some

point, that is not going to work for

them any longer because I don't actually

know what that skill is. So, I'm

trusting that Steven can come into my

business. Steven seems great. I know him

from church. I'm just going to let

Stephen do this. But, I don't know that

Steven only knows how to do this to a $3

million business. And I need it to be a

$10 million business. there's no

education system that exists for

business owners to help them identify

that today.

>> So it was a 2019 you started this

business.

>> So if I jumped back to 2019,

what is the difference like fundamental

difference in the principles of how to

be successful in business that you know

now that you wouldn't have known then?

Like what are the glaring principles? I

often think that like the further you go

down any path,

>> it becomes more and more clear what the

like fundamental rules of the game are.

And at the very beginning, those are

just hypotheses. So, what are like the

fundamental things you've learned about

what differentiates those 15,000 people

that you've interfaced with that are

business owners um makes some of them

successful and the others unsuccessful?

>> I ultimately think that this comes down

to the character of the person that is

doing the business. Because if you look

at people that you can partner with in

business, it is incredibly challenging

to make something truly successful. Even

if it's the best business model in the

world, you figured out marketing, you

figured out operations, you can scale

it. If the person is a piece of [ __ ] and

if the person is not somebody who is

ethical and is somebody who's compliant

and isn't somebody who wants to win, to

me those three things go hand in hand

because it to me it doesn't matter what

the business model is. You could give me

a roofing business, you can give me an

HVAC business, you can give me a

wellness company, a marketing agency.

The principles that I thought to be

true, many of them have held true over

the last six years since 2019. Many of

them are still very applicable around

standard practices for accounting and

how you recruit people. Certain tips and

tools help with different platforms that

you can use for these things, but for

the most part, those things actually

haven't changed. But what I've learned

painfully over the last 6 years is

everything is about the people that you

do business with and the partners that

you choose and the people that you allow

in your inner circle. And so that is the

case for your own business, but that's

also the case for the businesses that we

help. And I can watch the most

incredible business owner come into our

organization. She's wanting to win.

She's excited about what the future can

look like. She's going to take all of

the notes and actually go home and

implement those things. But if she has

somebody in her life, say it's a spouse,

say it's a kid, worse yet it's an

employee that she's paying to help her.

Like that's the irony. You pay people to

help you and yet when they're actually

on your team, they do things that

detract from your ability to achieve

your goals and to reach your potential.

That's where I find doesn't matter what

the business model is, doesn't matter.

You can give all of the books, all of

the training, the full playbook to

somebody, they're going to fail because

either they aren't that person or

they've surrounded themselves inside

their business with people who will just

be stops to them and continually stop

their ability to grow and to reach for

more, reducing that person's confidence

in themselves and their business stays

stuck.

>> If people are the most important thing

for long-term success and for business,

what are you looking for in people? What

makes someone an A player in your view?

And how do you how do you filter them

out?

Because a lot of people go off their

vibes and if I've learned anything over

the last 10 years is that we're all

riddled with our own biases and

insecurities. So we end up aiming in a

certain direction whether that's for

better or for worse.

>> So what's your process of finding

exceptional people?

>> I use a three-step interview process. So

the three steps for me is a first a

cultural interview. I want to understand

more so than me trying to get into the

technicalities of can they do the work.

Are they aligned with our organization?

Are they goal oriented? The best

question that you can ask somebody

inside a business before you hire them,

what are their five-year goals and

actually get a real answer. I don't

really care what skills and experiences

you have. If you don't have goals,

you're I'm not hiring you. You're not

allowed to be inside this environment

because it's demoralizing for every

other person who is here to help achieve

their goals. the organization's goals

and hopefully the goals of the end

customer, client, patient for whatever

type of business. So that first

interview really being the cultural

grounding point is of the utmost

importance and then I move straight into

a technical interview where I want to

get the person as close to the work as

possible. So if you're going to be a

salesperson, I want to see you make a a

sales call. I'm going to give you a list

of 50 people to call. I want to listen

to you call those people. If you are a

graphic designer in our organization, we

do not do briefs. We are not the type of

people that are going to say you get all

of this time to be able to think through

this whole process and this whole

journey and we're going to give you two

weeks to do this. For us, we are

turnurning content constantly because

that's the world that we live in for the

amount of ads that need to be created,

presentation decks. It can't take a

bunch of time. And so if the person when

I do a case study interview and I have

them actually make a presentation in

front of me says that they need two days

to think about this and they can't

assemble some form of a presentation or

a graphic for an ad. They don't know how

to use Adobe or Canva or whatever the

platform is, I I can't really hire the

person because I know that they don't

have that skill. And then the final one

is a core values interview. And for me,

our team's ability to demonstrate ahead

of time, ahead of joining the

organization that they actually

understand and are in alignment with our

core values is essential.

>> How do you test someone's core values?

>> Well, I asked them to give me times

where they have exemplified the core

values that we have and they present it

to our leadership team. For the first

100 team members at Cardone Ventures, I

listen to every single core values

presentation. the person can't

demonstrate and actually say, "Oh, I was

able to generate x amount of leads and

convert them at y percentage." They

probably don't know what they're talking

about and they're gonna have a really

hard time in the environment. And I do

believe that this is the business

owner's responsibility. You have to own

your culture and your environment. And

if you don't and just think that anybody

that can come in is going to actually

live by what you want to create, you're

going to be very quickly mistaken

because they're going to create their

own environment inside yours and then

you've lost control. You talked about

goal setting being an imperative when

you're meeting people. What is what is

your framework for goal setting? If

someone at home isn't quite clear on

their goals, what what should they be

doing?

>> I have a three-step methodology for goal

setting that I have rolled out to

thousands of people. And this three-step

framework has really transformed my life

because it allows me to create buckets

for goals. And the process is called

personal goals, professional goals, and

financial goals. And after having over a

thousand of these conversations

personally where I've interviewed team

members and business owners and team

members of business owners about their

goals, what I can say is I've never

found a goal that is outside of those

three buckets. But the challenge many

people run into is on New Year's Eve,

they start to list out all of the lovely

things that they would like to

accomplish and who they want to be. And

it becomes this very esoteric

conversation. Instead of really

prioritizing personally, what does

success look like? Professionally, what

does success look like? Financially,

what does success look like? And what

would those targets be in one year from

now, 3 years from now, and 5 years from

now? Because those three buckets become

easy to think about in the short term.

One year for most people, super

straightforward. They're like, "Oh, I'd

like to make an additional $10,000.

Maybe I'd like a promotion here." Three

years starts to get a little bit more

nebulous. And after having over a

thousand of these conversations, 5 years

for most people they have a hard time

thinking with. But the one constant is

in 5 years from now, guess what? We're

going to be 5 years older. I am 32 years

old today. In 5 years from now, for

certain, I will be 37 years old. And so,

who is Natalie at 37?

>> Who is she?

>> She's a [ __ ] badass.

Natalie is in control of her

environment. Natalie is able to

make a lot of financial investments that

I'm not in the position financially to

make today because I want to be able to

write a million dollar check to charity

just because I can. I'd ideally like

that check to be 10 or $50 million. And

when you say PPF, personal,

professional financial

>> is there any specific way that I should

write this down? Is it just do I just

think about in 5 years from now, what

are my personal, professional, and

financial goals? And then I write that

down on a piece of paper, for example.

>> Great question. Ideally, personal is at

the top,

>> okay,

>> with a bucket for one year, three year,

and fiveyear.

>> Then the next is professional, one year,

three year, 5 year. Financial one year,

three year, five year.

>> And you know, you use the word badass.

>> Uhhuh.

What is the mindset of a badass? Like,

have you always been like this?

>> I always wanted this, but today I am

this. At 20 years old, I was crippled

with anxiety and fear about what others

thought of me, about this decision that

I made to be in a relationship with

somebody who was older than me, and

thinking that for the rest of my life,

somebody was going to think that, oh,

she just married her way to the top. She

slept her way to success. She's not

actually very smart. She's just a gold

digger and she took the easy way out.

And so 20-year-old me was actually

terrified of being in front of people,

was terrified of the future judgment

that would come if I was successful.

Because I think there was a part of me

that thought to myself, well, what if I

am only successful because I married

somebody who is successful? and all of

the thought process that goes around,

well, do I not marry this person and be

in this relationship even though I love

them and I think they're the greatest

person on earth because what people are

going to think of me. What if I could

have the greatest relationship because

I'm obsessed with this person. I really

think that this person is my person. I

had that clarity at a very young age

>> and he's 25 years older than you.

>> He is 25 years older than me.

>> So, so you were anxious and more

concerned with other people's opinions?

>> 100%. Did you have the same aura?

>> I don't think so.

>> What changed? What happened? How did you

acquire such an aura?

>> I think the aura came from targeting,

getting stats that I could prove that

let somebody not see me and my life

choices, but actually let them see an

outcome. So that first outcome was being

able to recruit people. I wanted to

actually have a stat that I have

recruited x amount of people. Therefore,

I know how to hire people. I know how to

interview them. I know how to onboard

them. I know how to create a successful

culture because a result shows that. So

whether you like me, don't like me,

think that it was him, you can't take

away the stat. And I became obsessed

with not

getting things or doing things that took

me away from stats.

>> So you needed to acquire first party

evidence for yourself about yourself.

Mhm.

>> So that within yourself, you knew

>> who you were

>> that

>> you had a a self case for who you are.

>> That

>> and even I guess to for people to do

that cuz I'm sure there's so many people

listening that are maybe 20-year-old

Natalie in some way, maybe a bit

shrouded with sort certain insecurities

and maybe aren't the most conf

confident, maybe a bit anxious, scared

about what people might think if they

try. What would you say to those people

from your experience?

>> Go all in on yourself.

go all in on that weird thing that

you're interested in. If it's

scrapbooking, if it's

social media, if it's

recruiting, if you like reading business

books, go allin on that thing. And

social media has never created a better

time for people to actually create

incredible things based off of their own

interests and get those things out to

the world. So 20-year-old anybody

anybody who is 20 years old should say

this is what I'm interested in. It is

one thing. It is not 12 things. And I'm

going to go all in on myself with this

thing and become completely obsessed and

create my environment around becoming

the best at objectively the best at this

thing.

>> Does it matter how you look? I've I've

heard you talk about this in a video you

made in April where you're talking about

seven steps to transforming yourself

>> and you say that you should rebrand your

look.

>> Does it matter how I look?

>> I think it matters a lot to people how

they look. I think people have a lot of

ideas about

levels of acceptance about how they look

and ultimately you have to decide if you

are comfortable with the way that you

look and I do think many people

overemphasize how they look and how they

come across. But if you want to rebrand

yourself and have this new identity,

let's say somebody wants to go from

being a 20-year-old college student that

no one really takes seriously and it's

kind of dumpy and doesn't really like

certain things, but can't really

articulate why, spend too much time on

social media, and let's say that person

wants to become a professional golfer.

Well, all of a sudden, in order for me

to become a professional golfer, the

fastest way for me to be successful at

becoming a professional golfer is to

practice golf every hour of the day and

to assimilate into that environment to

look the part and to act the part. I'm a

huge believer in the process of be, do,

have. It is not have before you actually

be that person and you do the things in

order to have the stuff or have the

identity or have the whatever it is that

you're looking to create the being a

professional golfer, the scrapbooking

business, the $20 million organization.

And so the first step really is becoming

that. And if I really want to change

what my external environment is, I need

to get in those rooms and I need to

start to understand what those rooms

look like. And the fastest way for me to

actually be able to do that, as long as

it doesn't compromise my moral code,

would be to start to look like, dress

like, act like that thing that I want to

become.

>> How important do you think communication

is in terms of like the way that you

show up here and the way that you talk?

Do you think that's important? And if

so, what advice would you give to to my

audience about being an effective

communicator?

>> Of course, communication is the most

important thing. Next to being

successful,

actually, I would say in order to be

successful, you have to be able to

communicate your ideas and your thoughts

and who you are and your point of view.

And if you can't communicate those

things, it will show in your inability

to create the things that you want to

have. So, what do you do when you think

about your own communication style? What

are some of the things that you've

learned over time that are effective to

make people take you seriously to to

hear you and to persuade people?

>> I am incredibly present in any room that

I am in. And that is a missed skill in a

day and age where everyone has a cell

phone where they can contact millions of

people instantly. I find that leaders

who want to get promoted and and be in

the next position, they don't even think

of how unaware they look in every

leadership meeting because they are

simply answering another email or not in

that room. And my philosophy is if

you're in the room and your two feet are

there, that is where you have to be. And

so you are an effective communicator if

you can actually track with what's

happening. If I can track what he's

doing over here and when he comes and

talks to me, I'm able to have a

conversation because he's physically in

my space. That communication matters.

It's not just the most important person

in the room that matters in any room.

It's how you present yourself to every

individual because you are present in

that environment right now. And if you

can teach yourself to not numb yourself

from the environment, if you can teach

yourself to really observe the

environment and talk to whoever it is

that's in front of you, communicate with

them, even if they're not talking to

you. How we became partners with Grant

and Elena Cardone was by sitting at an

event with 35,000 people and instead of

acting like big deals and instead of

acting like we were somebody, we sat

there in their audience and took notes

and were actively interested in what

they were saying. Why? Cuz if somebody's

up on stage and you want that person's

attention, the fastest way to make them

not want to spend time with you is to

slouch in your chair and is to look down

or be distracted the whole time. And

then when they meet you to come maybe

take a picture at the end of the event,

they see you. They are going to know

that you gave them no laughs, you gave

them no verbal cues, you were completely

uninterested, and you actually made

their job harder for them despite the

fact that maybe they are your role model

or idol. I find people are so unaware of

their physical presence in any room, in

a meeting, in a school room, in a

presentation, in a conversation with

their significant other with their kids,

that if they could just own the space

that they are in and be intentional with

the human being that's in front of them

would change everything in their lives.

>> What about how you speak? how the very

the most effective speakers that you've

encountered, what it is they do

tactically to make sure that people hear

what they're saying and are persuaded by

them, you know, and there's a spectrum,

right? There'll be these business owners

that you meet that are like terrible

communicators and speakers. What are

they doing wrong? And then the very best

that you meet, what are they doing

right?

>> The more frameworks somebody has to

frame their communication, I think helps

them land their point. So there's no

shortages of frameworks on the planet.

My framework is vision, commitment,

execution. I use three steps in every

communication that I'm really

intentional about and wanting to land.

And that three-step framework can be

used for getting a promotion. It could

be used for laying people off. It could

be used to figuring out where you're

going to go to dinner that night and

persuading your significant other. So

the first step of the framework under

VCE is vision. And it's important that

vision is first because if you can

articulate to somebody the intention and

the why behind whatever it is you're

communicating, you're going to get much

further than just going into tactics.

And if it's tactics that you go into,

people forget it. People don't remember

tactics. They they like the tips, but do

they actually implement those things?

oftentimes not because it's just

tactics. So why is this thing important

for the individual?

>> So give me an example. I'm on your team

and you're trying to persuade me to

launch a Twitch channel

>> to do live streaming. How how would you

go through this framework to accomplish

that goal?

>> Card Ventures. Our mission is to help

business owners achieve their personal,

professional, and financial goals. And

we're on a path to impact a million

business owners. We've only done

business with a handful of thousands. We

have a long way to go. And one of the

things I was researching is Twitch

because our impact could be greatly

amplified by us having our message be to

this audience to this crowd using Twitch

vision commitment. There's two steps.

First step, what is my commitment? I

will provide you whatever training is

the best training to get you set up with

an account to get you the knowledge and

education of people who are crushing it

in the space. introduce you to those

contacts in order for you to be able to

fully launch this and be responsible for

it. Commitment part two. What I'd ask

for in return is you take that very

seriously and with the contacts that

you're going to be meeting, you follow

up with them. You ensure that they

understand that your intention is to be

the best of the best, to learn from

their mistakes, but to do this in a way

that represents our organization at the

highest level possible.

Execution. So, what I see this looking

like is we're going to get you an

account. I've researched this

platform. I know nothing about Twitch,

but I've researched this platform, and

here are the three people that I'm going

to invest $5,000 for you to go and learn

from, be mentored by, and over the next

8 weeks, the target has to be we're

going to go from zero Twitch subscribers

to

10,000 Twitch subscribers.

and we will check in every single day in

order to remove any roadblocks in order

for this to be a successful initiative.

>> And where do people go wrong here?

>> They start with the execution. They're

like, "Oh, we need to be on Twitch."

This is what business owners do to their

team. They're like, "I came home from

this conference. We need to be on

Twitch. So, figure out what Twitch is

going to look like. Figure out what the

plan is. We'll meet back. Talk about it.

Just like handle this. I'm super busy. I

have to do this thing over here."

instead of really tying whatever the

thing is that you're asking somebody to

why is this important? Oh yeah, it ties

back to this bigger thing. It's not just

because I'm asking you to learn Twitch,

which is likely something that you know

jack [ __ ] about. You know nothing about

Twitch as do I. But that's this

difficulty in businesses and in many

communication outside of business is

you're both trusting that you're going

to do your part in learning about

something that neither of you know

anything about. And so you either again

bottleneck yourself in this

communication because you're struggling

to understand this thing. You're

struggling to understand Twitch and then

you feel like you have to become a

Twitch master. People online are going

to love this. No idea. But you're going

to become like the world's greatest

Twitch person when really what you

should have been doing is these other

things for your business. And this

person you should trust enough but lay

out enough steps for them to say this is

why I'm committed to this. It's

important enough for me to invest

$5,000. That's my commitment. What I'm

asking for in return is your commitment

back to me so that we're aligned. And if

I once I have your commitment, I've

already given you mine. Let's just hop

right into execution. But so often we

drop right into execution without first

getting the commitment from the other

person that they're even interested. And

then we wait 4 weeks or 8 weeks or 12

weeks thinking something is happening

when it is not happening. and we lose

time momentum excitement enthusiasm

about growing and our confidence in

people that we can actually trust them

goes down.

>> I've heard you talk about avoiding

phrases like I think, I feel,

um, and being more high conviction and

certain with the way that you

communicate with people.

>> Mhm.

>> Explain that to me.

>> That honestly might be outdated for me.

>> Yeah. Because in a day and age where

it's important to share your point of

view,

it's not a bad thing to say, I think

this is the right path, especially if

you aren't certain. And it shows

strength and integrity that you are

communicating that you you're thinking

this. You you don't know for sure and

you're relying on other people. Now, if

it is just a filler word, if somebody

says, "I think we should do this and

this is the direction that I think we

should take Cardone Ventures," that

wouldn't be very engaging. So, in that

context, you absolutely should not be

using these filler phrases of I think or

maybe and and adding lack of certainty.

At some level, you're playing a

certainty game with everybody around

you, whether they are investors,

clients, patients, team members,

partners, vendors. And so using phrases

that decrease people's certainty in your

direction isn't going to help them help

you. But if you actually are uncertain,

it is okay to be transparent about that.

And it actually builds trust.

>> I I think it's funny I just said I think

I think about this a lot.

>> Um because I I find myself writing out

emails and messages where I've written I

think in them and I I'd say 90% of the

time change it to I believe.

>> And I think there's something

different about that framing. Whenever I

believe, it feels it's still

appreciating that this is a belief that

I have and I don't have certainty on

this hypothesis, but there's something

high conviction about the phrase I

believe we're going to blah blah blah

blah and I believe that will happen blah

blah blah. It feels much better than I

think.

>> I think is a bit flimsy.

>> I'm in agreement with you and

>> a bit plastic banging in the wind. But

when you say it like this, it makes me

connect to you because it actually feels

like it's a stream of consciousness that

you are thinking something

>> instead of in an email.

>> You saying I believe is much more

authoritative. I would

I would caution leaders when it comes to

using words like I believe or being

certain about really ensuring that you

are certain or you really do believe

something, especially as your business

grows. If you're doing a million dollars

and now you have a $10 million business

and all of a sudden you have a a layer

of leaders around you, it can become an

echo chamber. And the more certain you

are, or at least you seem to be, the

less likely people are going to push

back on you when you might actually need

them to collaborate and you weren't so

certain, but you came off with such

certainty. And I find that that's a

balance that leaders have to find as

they become more competent in their zone

of genius and as they get higher up in

organizations or start their own

organization themselves. if they aren't

really communicating what things they

aren't certain of but they're waffling

on um it it can cause unnecessary

duress.

>> You talk about mastering your calendar

as well being central to transformation.

>> Why is why is this so important and what

does that mean?

>> Well, if you want anything in life, you

actually have to spend time to get that

thing. things don't just magically

manifest into people's lives despite

what the internet tells you. So, in

order for me to have the relationship

that I want to have, I actually have to

invest time with my significant other.

It's not just going to magically happen

that I'm going to have an amazing

marriage. If I want to have great

friends, I actually have to spend time

with my friends. And so your calendar is

a reflection and a representation of

what you find to be important and is in

alignment or out of alignment with the

goals that you have every single day. So

if I have zero time being spent on

generating revenue inside my business,

it shouldn't surprise me at the end of

the year that I'm doing the same amount

of revenue that I did last year. Why? I

spent zero time on the one thing aka

revenue generation in order for it to

grow. So for me, my calendar, and I

teach business owners this every single

day, you have to look at it every day.

You you have to start to align your

time, unless you want your life to be

something that just is a story of luck.

I don't know about you, but I'm not

interested in having a life of luck

because I think that actually leads to a

significant amount of self-doubt and

uncertainty. Oh, just because I'm lucky

I'm going to leave something to being

out of my control just because I I

happen to be at the right place the

right time. Of course, there are those

components. I have been at the right

place at the right time throughout my

career. But the way that you control

where you spend your time gives you the

most amount of atbats to the

opportunities that you want if you have

goals and aspirations to have a

different life than you currently have.

And to me, still to this day, I want to

have a different life in the future. And

I imagined a more enriched version of my

life at 40 and at 50 and at 60. And I

think if people were really honest with

themselves, they want a different

version of their lives, too. I don't

think someone listens to this podcast or

watches this show without wanting to be

something different or to have something

different, whether it's relationship or

different health situation or different

income, different friends. I mean, how

many people would want different

friends, like badass friends to do cool

[ __ ] with? Well, how do you get that?

Okay, I would need to actually reverse

engineer using my time and what I do

every single day to get me closer to

people who are doing those similar

things. And so, that might actually take

me making sacrifices for 2 years in

order to be able to be around people to

be able to give value to people who'd be

interested in being my friend. And it

sounds a little

strategic,

but it is. Cuz you don't just get great

people in your life because you happen

to be at the right place at the right

time. You get great people by doing

great things because great people want

to spend time around other people who

are doing great things. And the only way

that you can certainly know that you

were doing great things without getting

lucky or happening to look a certain way

so that you get invited into certain

places is by managing and really

creating your own time.

>> What about hard work in this equation?

You know, people talk a lot about work

life balance and I think a lot of people

want want everything. We want to, you

know, get to 40, have the yacht, have

the great family, have great

relationships, have a great business. I

mean, that's an ideal outcome for all of

us. What would you say to people about

the concept of working hard and how

critical or or unimportant that is?

>> Working hard is the most important

thing. You cannot get to where you want

to go if it's truly something that is

unusual or out of the ordinary without

working hard. And

you could try to hack it. Let's say

somebody happens to be beautiful. I

guess you could get the yacht and a

relationship because you're beautiful

and somebody is willing to be in a

relationship with you because you're a

good person. But I've met those people

and those people have crippling fear and

anxiety because they don't actually know

what their place is and they don't know

they didn't do what was required to have

the thing. So going back to like be do

have people who win the lottery, they

have all the money. People who inherit

wealth, they have all the money. This

was my fear. I was going to have money

because I'm connected to my husband. But

I didn't do the work and become the

person that created the happiness until

I did do the work to become the person

to have the thing. So now that I have

it, I can actually have it. And when you

are able in life to have things that you

want because you did it in the right

order, you don't have this anxiousness,

you don't have this anxiety, you don't

have this worry or fear that someone's

going to take it from you. It's all

going to come crashing down because you

know that you could redo it.

>> If I want to be badass Natalie at 32.

>> Mhm.

>> How hard am I going to have to work in

my 20s? And I want like very specifics

like you cuz people everyone has a

different idea of hard work. I think if

you ask anybody if they work hard, I

think 100% of the population will say,

"Yes, I do." But actually, there's like

levels to this [ __ ] So, how hard do you

work? If we look at an average week,

why are you smiling?

>> I'm never not working. So, however many

hours are in a day, everything in my

life is optimized to the work that I do.

Every single thing. Because the work

that I do is important to me. And I'm in

a phase of my life where I really do

believe that the work that I'm doing can

change my life. It can change others

lives. So, it would be selfish of me to

not spend every minute thinking about

what I can do in order to help move the

work that I do that I'm passionate

about.

>> What about hobbies and stuff? And

>> what what do you have any hobbies?

Anything you do to

>> when you're not working?

>> I love a facial.

Facials are great.

That's the extent of hobbies. I don't

have hobbies. I I' I truly love what I

do every single day. I get to work with

the backbone of America. I get to work

with business owners who need my help,

who are very confused. And so I feel a

huge sense of responsibility every

single day to actually make decisions

that if I had Sarah looking over my

shoulder, listening to how I'm talking

to my husband and Sarah works with her

husband, like would she actually think,

"Oh, she is the person that she says she

is because of the way that Natalie

showed up to this conversation." And if

you have this responsibility and I would

recommend to anybody like manufacture in

every way possible responsibility, put

more responsibility on yourself. Feel

the weight of responsibility because

it's important and there's nothing wrong

with responsibility. We should want

responsibility because people who have

responsibility, what does that mean?

They're able to respond. Well, I don't

want to be unable to respond to

anything. I want to be the first phone

call when somebody is having a crisis. I

want to be the first phone call when

somebody is celebrating something. I

want to be capable and able to respond.

And so, the idea of hard work to me,

it's just a it's a requirement because I

have responsibility. And anybody who is

trying to shortcut the hard work, you

have to figure out almost how to gify it

for yourself and put different ways of I

guess creating pressure and

responsibility to keep yourself going

through it because sometimes it is

frustrating and overwhelming and never

burnoutinducing though and I think that

that's a misconception about hard work.

I don't know successful people who are

still in the game who are burnt out by a

long day. That the response isn't

burnout. Their their response might be I

want to go do something different for a

minute. But my business partner Grant

Cardone who I am obsessed with and that

was one of the greatest partnerships I

could have ever done in my entire life.

He says, "You're not a candle. You can't

burn out. A human being cannot burn out

because you are not a candle. So, can

you feel moments of pressure, stress?

Yes. I don't take any of those moments

as being a bad thing. It's not a

negative to feel overwhelmed because you

have responsibility. People depend on

you. People are relying on you to do

something great.

>> Burnout then in your view, why do people

say, do you know, I was doing this thing

and I got burnt out so I had what is

that? The thing that people do is not

actually leading to where they want to

go.

So if I thought that it was going to

require me to work out two hours a day

in the gym and only eat chicken and rice

and never have any of the things that I

love to never get a six-pack, I'm not

going to do that. But if I think that by

doing this work that's going to be hard

and I'm going to hate and it's going to

suck that I can actually get what I want

and my life would be changed because I'd

actually have a six-pack and I'd feel

confident and I'd be able to buy the

clothes that I'd want and I'd just be

part of the very small percentage of the

population that has one, then the

process of me going to the gym early at

5:00 before my kids get up wouldn't burn

me out. I would recognize that this is a

step that's necessary to get to my goal.

And at which point when the goal is

there, you might change your mind and

you might have a different goal. But

when people win, they are rarely burnt

out at that moment. I've watched

business owners sell their businesses

for hundreds of millions of dollars. Uh

I've watched them get hundreds of

millions of dollars in their bank

account. And that feeling of celebration

and joy happens to stay around for a

little while until that thing kicks in,

which is that individual's potential to

help somebody, to solve more problems,

to be able to make a larger impact. And

so that end goal does end up moving. The

goalpost ends up moving. And there's

actually nothing wrong with that.

Despite the world wanting to tell you

that there is something wrong with the

fact that you're moving the goalpost, I

don't think there's anything wrong with

it. and you only really get burnt out if

you don't see how the sacrifices that

you're making are actually going to lead

you to the six-pack. If you're going to

be overweight forever, then of course

I'm just going to eat candy and chips

and all the things that I love to eat.

But I do think I could get a six-pack.

So, I'm willing to make some of these

sacrifices here and there because the

goal isn't going to allow me to get

burnt out because I'm going to be so

freaking proud of myself by the time I

reach that goal. at which point I'm

going to change it to a different goal

and it's going to be just as interesting

and exciting of a game for me to play at

that point in my life.

>> We talked about responsibility earlier

and you work seven days a week and all

the time but only take time off for

facials.

There's a I know my audience well enough

to know that some of them will be

thinking that's all right for you. You

haven't got kids.

>> Totally.

>> How do you respond to that rebuttal for

people that have, you know, lots of

other responsibilities?

>> They're right. you can have kids and be

a great parent and also work a lot. And

so then your hobby instead of me getting

a facial would be you actually spending

intentional time with your kids. But I

would ask them this question. What is

the appropriate amount of time to spend

with your kids? Like how much is that?

What would make you feel good about how

much time you spent with your kids? Is

it 2 hours a day? Okay, great. 2 hours

focus time, dedicated time, not 4 hours.

half of that on television, on social

media, making calls, making dinner. No,

that that that's not workable. Two hours

makes sense. Or three hours, whatever

that person's goal is with the amount of

time that they want to spend being an

active parent, being somebody actively

involved in that person's life. But we

tend to just use these excuses. Oh, I

have sick parents. Oh, I have kids. Oh,

I have. And I find that very successful

people happen to have all of those. Oh,

I haves. And many of them, not all of

them, but many of them are able to

figure out, okay, I'm going to spend

this 90 minutes at the hospital fully

locked in to my dad right now. My dad

doesn't actually need me for 6 hours. My

dad needs me for 90 minutes. That time

is precious. It's blocked off. I'm

making the time for that. And then

outside of that, it is working in order

to build the life that you want. Because

guess what? Your dad is going to pass

away. If your dad passes away in a year

from now and 6 years from now, the

amount of time that you spent with him

needs to be important enough for you to

make that time. And I would hope that

everybody makes the amount of time that

is necessary for them to feel like they

did their job as the child, did their

job as the caretaker, whatever the role

is. But at what point are you going to

use other people's circumstances to stop

you from doing what you want to do and

creating what you want to have? And for

the parent who is very intentional with

their kids and and doesn't use their

kids as an excuse, I am all for spending

as much time as required for you to be a

good parent. It's that I find that the

other side is far more prevalent, which

is I'm using my kids. I'm using my

family. I'm using my circumstances. I'm

using my education, my lack of

experience as a reason for why I can't

do this thing. And when I find people,

because I work with people all day,

every day, when I find people like that,

the fastest way to handle that is be

like, "Hey, Sarah, let me see your phone

real fast." Sarah will give me your

phone, and I'll open up the screen time

on her phone. And if the screen time on

her phone has 3 hours of Netflix or an

hour and a half of Instagram, like just

reallocate that time to the thing that

you want to go build. Use your calendar,

use your time for building the life that

you actually want to have instead of

saying, "Oh, I have kids." While also

being distracted with your kids and not

being a parent, whatever that definition

for you is, a parent to them. I don't

think that kids are negatively impacted

by watching their parents work their

asses off. I think that that is an

inspiring way to grow up. I had two

parents who worked their tails off. And

I do think that I am part of the way

that I am because I had such incredible

parents who worked hard and who

prioritized their own goals and their

own success as something that was

important. And I would also argue it

should be more important than I am. Just

because you're a parent shouldn't mean

that your kids are the most important

thing in your life and you have to

overindex on spending all of your time

there.

>> What matters more being in your view

being happy and content with your life

or being successful even if it comes at

the cost of contentment?

>> They are the same thing. They're not

different. I do not find success and

happiness uh on two polar opposites. I

am happy when I create things and when I

can see in the physical universe that

I've done something that I wanted to do

whether that's

driving revenue, hiring people, helping

a business owner, that is when I I am

the happiest when I am doing the things

that are part of becoming successful.

>> So if Sarah who's scrolling on Netflix

is is content and happy,

>> she's not content or happy though.

>> How do you know?

>> Because what is she watching? Is she

watching Selling Sunset and watching

other people live their lives and

touring these gorgeous homes and having

these fancy things that Sarah would

would love to have? If she really

thought she could have those things,

if she really actually believed that for

a second and these are the steps that

are part of getting there, I do believe

that she would choose actually having it

versus watching it. I guess it depends

what it comes at the expense of because

I know a bunch of billionaires and

they're not amongst the happiest people

I know sometimes. I mean there's the odd

one or two that I think are really, you

know, really happy and content. But then

I've got friends that, you know, live in

my hometown who I think are probably

happier and that never, you know, have a

9 toive job, etc. And I would say

they're probably happier.

So, so that the house in my mind doesn't

strike me as being the source of

everyone's happiness. Even though for

for you and maybe even for me,

>> Mhm.

>> maybe that is the pursuit of those

things gives us some kind of stability.

>> Mhm.

>> Because of our own trauma and our own

wiring and our own insecurities, etc.

But for Sarah, maybe she had such a

cushy, lovely upbringing and she felt so

safe and secure and that she didn't she

wasn't without

>> that maybe she's like perfectly happy

just vicariously watching Netflix and

walking her dog.

>> I refuse to believe that that's

possible.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. Sarah is slapped in the face as

soon as she leaves that nice little

escape that she's created for herself of

Netflix of all of the things that she

can't have and that she can't do and the

experiences she can't create for herself

that she could never give to people

around her because she was distracted

and not actually building what she

wanted to build.

>> Maybe that's what she wanted to build

though,

>> a life of watching other people's lives

on social media, Netflix. People like

watching movies and stuff and they like

scrolling and you know they they like

cooking and then do a bit of crochet

then walk the dog and spend time with

the kids. People like that. I when I was

younger you know when I was like 18 19

20 25 whatever I didn't think it was

possible. I thought that everyone was

pretending

>> that they you know that they were happy.

But as I got older and as I started to

realize that I'm a bit [ __ ] up. It

became more and more clear to me that

actually had the circumstances of my

earlier life been slightly different, I

wouldn't be the way that I am and I

wouldn't want the things that I think I

want and I wouldn't get the contentment

and stability from the pursuit of

things. And so it's plausible if you

even look at your siblings, you go,

well, how are we all so different? Like,

you know, why why are why am I working

seven days a week every single day and

some of my siblings choose not to? It's

because we have we have different wiring

and we get happiness from different

things. And some of the things they do I

go I'd hate them. I'd hate that. My

brain would be going crazy thinking

about email.

You don't think Sarah can be happy?

>> I don't think Sarah's happy watching

Netflix and on social media. I think

that there is a deep sense of insecurity

and lack of contentment that's guised as

I'm happy and that's guised as or

covered of it's almost like a a facade.

I'm going to say that I'm happy.

But the realities of our economy and the

realities of her financial situation

create dependencies for Sarah. It

creates dependencies and with those

dependencies what I found is that the

things that you are dependent upon at

some level you will end up resenting.

If I'm dependent upon my one customer in

my business and they make up 80% of my

revenue, sure it's great when I sign

that deal. It's really sucky when that

customer ends up being a jerk because

now I'm dependent upon them 80% of my

revenue until I'm not dependent upon

them because I've diversified my revenue

and I've been able to bring on other

customers because I was able to market

my business and acquire an audience. And

so with Sarah,

I would ask if the median household

income is around $60,000

shy of $70,000 a year, what is Sarah

dependent upon to be able to afford the

Netflix subscription? And when she

scrolls on Tik Tok shop and wants to be

able to be like everybody else who's

living these cool lives doing these

glamorous influencer events or whatever

she's into, whatever is so captivating

to her that's making her watch this

instead of go out and do those things,

apply the makeup. How many makeup

tutorials do women watch without ever

even applying the makeup or using the

tools and the products? It's just

because they're distracted. I'm

wondering if this is a consequence of

the internet this this perspective like

because I I was in my head I was

skipping back through the through 50

years and then 100 years and I was going

back further I was like you know what's

human what what's the human sort of

wiring a thousand years ago when wealth

didn't exist like wealth was what you

could carry there was no such thing as

bank accounts or money so I was as

wealthy as what I could carry and

actually maybe as I think Nal said this

before that the only currency back then

which still persists and actually wealth

is just a proxy of is status status has

always meant survival It means that I

get the resources, I get the mates. But

wealth is isn't this construct that

actually the mind understands. But in

the last 20, 30 years because of social

media, we've all been sort of, I guess,

wired in a way to believe that

material possessions like the yacht or

the follow account is of utmost

importance.

>> Maybe it's just a proxy of like I belong

to I belong and I'm I'm not at risk.

Maybe it's a proxy of status.

>> I think it's a proxy of survival. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. So, I'm I'm wondering if

like if we've just been wired for the

last 20 years to believe that we need

these things because of the environment

that we're in, but actually like

prehistorically it doesn't make sense

that we would we would care about

we so pursuit I think is like really

hardwired into us. So, it's like we

wouldn't have these cameras and all in

this house and stuff. So, clearly my

ancestors were like wired to pursue

things and to build, but they were also

most certainly wired to depend

Like I think this is might be be one of

the real problems with society at the

moment is that we're all pursuing

independence,

>> you know, like I I think this is a bit

of a problem. I think about this quite a

lot actually like the decline in faith

and the decline in community

institutions and the decline in people

having kids and family. I'm like we're

really becoming really individualistic

and I'm not sure that's within our

nature.

>> See, I think survival has to depend upon

other people. It's not just my survival.

Once I've handled my survival,

the amount of money that I make, it

instantly goes to the problems that come

with other people's survival, whether

that's a family member, a group of

friends, and how far out that expands. I

don't think that changed 200 years ago

or 2,000 years ago. the ability to

accumulate things to better prepare

yourself in a harvest, better prepare

yourself in a in a time of a drought to

actually sustain and and make it through

to really survive. And the more contacts

that you have, the more you are setting

yourself up to survive. The more people

who know you, even though it's a little

bit of a status symbol, it's actually a

survival mechanism for you because

millions of people across the globe at

any point in time that you have a

problem, you've built enough trust and

credibility with them for them to be

interested in helping you. So, it's

actually a survival point. Now, of

course, you can run the spectrum of the

survival and say, well, is the

additional millionth follower or the

additional 2 million followers actually

leading to more survival? I would argue

that potentially, but what else could

you be able to impact if you were

thinking about the survival of you, of

your family, of the people that depend

on you, your team that's here? Like you

are creating abundance so that other

people can survive through what you have

created and you pursuing your own

survival and then having the second

order be the group around you, family,

the employees, the other groups that

you're a part of that you contribute to

in whatever ways you do and then those

concepts go further out to what can you

actually be responsible for for its

survival. What's interesting is this

this approach to sort of one's survival

and one's prosperity is resulting in us

having going through a genetic

extinction because people are not having

kids anymore. So Sarah scrolling on

Netflix with her four kids is actually

genetically surviving and all these

people that are focused on independence

and how much money I can make, they're

genetically becoming extinct. It's

>> fascinating. I'm basically playing

devil's advocate with myself because if

you observe my life clearly this is a

massive contradiction but um but it's

something that's been front of mind for

me at the moment is is this idea of like

dependence and independence and

obviously I'm approaching this season of

life where I'm going to have kids and

there's going to be trade-offs that I

have to make uh that I do make but I

guess we shall see what happens.

>> Do you think people respect you a lot

more now at 33 than they did when you

were

in 2019?

>> Of course they do. And what should

someone do that is looking to earn the

respect? Some someone that feels like

they're continually disrespected.

There's something about them. There's

something in the way they carry

themselves that what they continually

feel like people are disrespecting them.

They might work in a business or, you

know, they might be low down in a

company or maybe they're not. Maybe

they're just someone who's gone through

the corporate world and they're

continually disrespected. What would you

say they should do to to earn people's

respect? The first thing somebody has to

do in order to earn respect is to decide

that they would rather be respected than

liked. That trade-off is made too often.

We're in a situation when the right

respectful thing to do is unlikable. We

don't choose the right respectable thing

to do. We prioritize being liked. And so

when you make that decision to be

respected and to not prioritize what

everybody thinks about you, you can then

transition into the second step which is

you have to get stats in the area that

you want respect in. If you're low in an

organization or you have different

people around you who don't respect you

for a variety of different reasons. What

is the area of your expertise that is

undeniable?

It's proof. It exists in the physical

universe. It's not just because you had

an idea or you think you can be an

entrepreneur or you'd like to be someone

who gives people relationship advice.

I'm sorry, but if you're not in a

relationship and you don't have a stat

of being able to have a good

relationship and you can't have a spouse

that's like, "Wow, this person's great.

I love being around this person." You

probably shouldn't be giving that

advice. And that's why you don't have

respect in that area. So, I don't think

respect is a overall life respect. You

need to have respect in the different

compartments. It's not just Steven is a

respectable person altogether. That's

that's a facade to me. You might not be

respectable in certain areas. I maybe

shouldn't respect you in certain areas

of your life, but other areas, I would

think, areas that you've prioritized,

you're incredibly respectable in and

you've prioritized getting stats and

proof in those areas to earn people's

respect whether they like you or not

because you have something to prove for

it. Has that been a journey for you?

This idea of caring less about being

liked because you talked about that

earlier as being really central to your

sort of early 20s, etc.

>> It was so hard for me to not want to be

liked. I had a mom growing up who was a

medical doctor and just was the world's

most sweet, kind, thoughtful person. She

would sit down at a party and every

single person in that room loved her

immediately. That she just had this aura

about her. And so I watched my mom

growing up as a role model and somebody

who still to me today is a role model.

And she really emphasized how important

it is to ask great questions and to be

engaged with other people. And what I

lost in that process is well, if I'm

always asking other people and and

trying to get other people to like me

and it's always that flow, like what do

I actually think about myself because

I'm so focused on over accommodating

others? And so if you're trying to flip

this for yourself, you're trying to go

from I overindex on being liked and not

so overindexed on being respectable and

liking what I think about myself. You

really have to go out to your three-year

version of yourself and your 5-year

version of yourself because no one is

going to get clear on that for you

besides you. And once you put that stake

in the ground saying, "This is what I

want to be known for. this is who I want

to become. This is who I imagine myself

being. This isn't a manifestation

practice. It's a I'm going to decide who

that person is. And then I'm going to

like myself at 20, at 30, at 70 because

I'm acting in accordance with the way

that I view myself in the future. And

I'm going to become the person that I

want to be.

>> Have you found that you've had to

reinforce and protect your boundaries in

order to earn that respect? Do you find

that people try and test you? Of course

they do. I work with hundreds of team

members every single day who have their

own points of view and their own

perspectives on what they want the work

to look like, what they want our culture

to look like. And I think I've had to

wrestle with this so much because I want

to create an environment where people

can be successful. My definition of

leadership is making other people's

success easy. So, if I'm going to be a

leader, I'm going to make other people's

success easy. How would I go about doing

that? What type of environment would

they need to be in in order to actually

make their success easy compared to

their alternative, which is going down

the street and trusting that some other

leader is going to make them more

successful. And so, I really wrestle

with who I need to be and what the

boundaries are that I set for myself.

And one of the things I've gotten so

much criticism of uh online was when I

publicly shared a Tik Tok about firing

somebody because I found out that she

was cheating on her significant other

and the other person also had a

significant other. And as soon as I

found out about it, I terminated both of

them immediately. And it's so shocking

to people that

>> Wait, someone was cheating with someone

in the company?

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, and they both had partners outside

of the company.

>> Both had partners outside of the

company. As soon as I caught wind of it,

it wasn't even like a a split-second

decision. Well, I guess it technically

was a split-second decision. Was like, I

can't have this in my environment,

especially somebody close around me.

People trust me and should trust any

leader to help them make their success

easy. Am I making people's success easy

by putting inside that environment

people who are going to erode the values

of the group? No. Success for most

people isn't getting a divorce from

their significant other. Success for

most people looks like figuring out how

to have the success in their

professional lives and in their

financial lives while also being able to

have a spouse. I wouldn't want my

husband going out to work and being in

an environment where the company was

just fine with people cheating on each

other, lying to each other, and not

having a code of ethics, doing drugs.

Like none of that is something that I

want inside my environment cuz it's my

job to make people's success easy.

>> One would say that's none of your

business what they're doing when they go

home.

>> It is my business first of all because

it was with each other.

>> Yeah. But they're not doing it at work.

>> Well, there was a not to get into

specifics of the particular event, but

it happened to be around work related.

>> But if it wasn't at work, you still

>> even if it was, I would fire the person

immediately.

>> So you'd fire someone for cheating.

Absolutely. On their partner.

>> Absolutely.

>> I can't have cheaters. If they're going

to cheat on the person that they're

supposed to spend the rest of their life

with, do you think that they're cheating

on their work?

>> Do you think that they're going to cheat

on our clients? Do you think that

they're going to have the ethics and

morals and judgment to not be so

distracted with their own personal

ethics situation that they can actually

focus and do a good job? That person in

any environment is a liability to the

environment. It's a complete liability.

Some people have, you know, things in

their personal life which are very

different to the way that they show up

professionally. Though people people do

all kinds of things in their personal

life.

>> It's terrifying

>> cuz listen, the way that I see it is if

I expand the scope of my uh

concerns,

>> I'm going to get [ __ ] nothing done.

>> Mhm. So if I start, you know, going into

who they who they at home with and in

bed with and what's going on in their

personal life, unless they bring it to

me, obviously when you're the founder or

the CEO, people bring you stuff and they

say, "Look, this is going to impact my

work."

>> But um I, you know, bound I don't want

to be I don't want to be the government

of your [ __ ] personal situations as

well, as long as it doesn't show up in

the office.

>> Mhm.

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If I'm thinking of starting a business

in 2025,

you know, you've spoken to thousands and

thousands and thousands of business

owners online, probably many millions of

business owners.

When we think about that initial period

of like coming up with the idea and

picking what to work on. Is there any

advice you would give people based on

the success and failure you've seen

about what they should aim at, what they

should work on, especially in the

context of like 2025 when so much in the

world is changing so quickly?

>> If they could use the frame, if any

business owner or potential business

owner could think about starting a

business from the standpoint of where is

there the greatest chance for me to be

successful, that is the best frame to

use. Unfortunately, most do not use that

frame and they base it off of their

existing experience and the skills that

they have. If it was not based off of

existing experience or skills that

somebody has, I think great AI is going

to be the great leveler because nobody

has a lot of experience in AI. Nobody

knows in small businesses across America

how to hook up automations and start

working with assistants to be able to

put small businesses onto a CRM system

or an operating system that connects to

their financial software that allows the

business owner to make great decisions.

No one has done this at scale because it

didn't exist. And so if I was starting a

business in 2025, I would absolutely

look at how do I help business owners

who have an infinite budget for things

that actually work to make them more

money solve problems that are real to

them. And the problems that are real to

the 35 million business owners in the

United States of America is that they

don't know how to use AI. they are

terrified of AI and they're going to

either put their head in the sand or

assume that somebody who is young is

going to create the solution for them

when somebody instead who is experienced

could have a eight maybe even a nine

figure business over the course of the

next 18 to 24 months really figuring out

how to help solve these problems because

it makes the business owner to that

business incredibly sticky. the customer

is always going to be there and they

would be on the front end of something

that nobody has experience in.

>> So do you think a lot about this the

speed in which that market is growing

when you think about where to set up

shop and start a business?

>> Of course the market growth is

everything because if you want to start

a paper business in 2025, you would have

to be the best paper business and really

have a unique positioning to make that

successful. when you could do something

less well and be much more successful

because there's just more opportunity in

the growth and there's less players in

markets. So the growth allows for

innovation, the growth allows for new

entrance and as I mentioned with AI, uh

there's just an unprecedented

opportunity in front of people right

now. But I'm also very excited about

service-based businesses, roofers,

plumbers electricians

HVAC, all of those businesses.

The core of the business doesn't get

disrupted by AI until robots. But those

business operations are ripe for

somebody to come in, I don't care if

you're 15 years old or if you're 50

years old, and get paid tens of

thousands of dollars per client to

implement very simple solutions that

really do solve problems for those

businesses

>> using AI.

>> Using AI.

>> Yeah. I've heard you talk about when you

described the six most profitable

businesses that you think will be around

in 2026. We've talked about AI

businesses, talked about home services.

The other one was hybrid wellness clubs.

>> Mhm.

>> Why is why is health such a a big

predict prediction for you in terms of

profitability and a good place to set up

shop?

>> There's growth in the health space after

co the whole world changed and their

priorities changed as it relates to

health. the statistics I read recently

about alcohol sales connected to like

nightclubs, it's just it's not what it

used to be because instead of wanting to

go out late and party and do all sorts

of things, people are actually

prioritizing their health and providing

them with solutions for optimizing their

health is just it's continued to grow

for ever since co and it's going to

continue to grow with different types of

amenities at gyms with different types

of technology that people are inserting

into what a traditional I one time I

recently went to a a facial, my favorite

thing, my hobby. I went to get a

60-minute facial and they integrated IV

services into that facial experience.

Well, what else could you do that allows

somebody who is sitting in a chair for

60 minutes to add revenue to that

business that's connected to their

health and well-being? Those types of

innovations are happening in small

markets all across the world.

>> And why did you say in that video pet

care?

>> People love their pets and people will

spend money on their pets. People will

spend more money on their pets than

they'll spend on their kids and then

they'll spend on themselves. I mean, if

somebody has a dog, I recently talked to

somebody who told me that she was doing

Reiki with her 12 dogs. I mean, it's

just the the level of interest that

people have in taking care of their

pets. I think what's happened in that

market place specifically is as business

owners and high-income earners make more

money and they do have these pets, these

things that are dependent upon them that

aren't yet children. They want to spend

their discretionary income on making

that pooch that is their new best friend

phto comfortable

making him be well through all sorts of

offerings because I feel bad and it can

actually pay off my guilt by providing

phto with a caretaker and nail polish

and

EMF, you know, therapy.

And the other the other thing that I I

think is particularly pertinent to the

experience you've had is um so many

small business owners will come up to me

and say that they are

they won't say it like this but what

they're describing is that they're a

bottleneck in their own business.

>> They're at maybe I don't know a million

in revenue. I mean most people that come

up to me say this exact same thing.

They've reached about a million in

revenue in total and they don't know how

to scale beyond their typically like

service based businesses where someone's

doing a service for a client and uh what

would you what do you say to those

people when you've encountered them in

your your company?

>> Welcome to being an entrepreneur. This

is not a unique set of challenges. This

is an expected set of challenges. The

statistics show that the challenges that

business owners face at that break point

of taking what they are doing that is

working and transitioning that to having

other people help them is part of the

process. And so there is nothing wrong

with this business owner. It's just that

they don't technically know how to train

somebody to do what they do well that

then allows the business owner to focus

on the business owner's primary role.

And that primary role should be to

generate revenue. It shouldn't be the

dentist being in the person's mouth. You

cannot have 12 dental clinics and still

be the person that is helping the person

floss and making sure that they are

flossing. Right? Mostly hygienists help

dentists with that. But you have to get

out of the doing of your business and

you have to get into the scaling of the

operations of your business. And those

are just skills that you don't currently

have.

>> And what is that skill? What is the core

skill there? It's a tactical skill. And

the skill is opening up their calendar,

looking at what they do every single

day, duplicating through process

creation what it is that they do that

makes them a special snowflake in their

mind. Because every business owner

thinks that they are the only person

that can talk to their customer. They're

the only person that their clients will

listen to. Nobody is ever going to be

able to service their patient like them.

That's what they think. And so they

create those conditions instead of

saying, "No, I'm going to objectively

look at where I spend my time, and out

of all of the things that I do across a

50-hour work week, there are specific

things that are not the highest value

for me to continue to do, but I would

have to train somebody how to do that

thing flawlessly." It is not about

hiring somebody who's going to know how

to do that thing. That's where they fail

and then they lose confidence because

they think some magical unicorn employee

is just going to come into their lives

and take this thing that only know they

know how to do and actually be able to

do it. Of course, they can't. So, it's

this reinforcing thought that they have

instead of structuring it to say out of

these things, these are the specific

parts of the business that I want to

remove off of my plate so that in 3

months from now, I do not touch these

processes. In order to do that, I'm

going to document what I do. Ideally

using a framework like vision,

commitment, execution so that it doesn't

just get reduced down to steps, but so

that team members can understand the why

behind it, what the organization is

committed to, what the team member needs

to commit back to, and then actually

execute on whatever that process is. And

instead of just handing that person

those items in an onboarding and maybe

never checking it again, you're going to

go through a four-step process. First,

you're going to tell the person what

they're supposed to do, aka the process.

Ideally, then you show them what they're

supposed to do so that they can see how

this applies in real life. It's not just

something on a document. Then you're

going to let them do that thing. And you

are going to coach them and provide them

feedback on doing that thing. So when

you can see that you've properly trained

somebody and you've switched your

mindset from just assuming that adults

learn the same way that we used to learn

when we were children, which is just by

picking it up and figuring it out.

You're going to give them a full

structure, tell me, show me, let me

coach me on the most important things

that they need to be onboarded with. And

then you are going to actually measure

that they're able to do those things in

the way that you were able to do that so

that that role inside your business is

handled. And then you just do that over

and over and over again.

>> So often when people are having this

conversation with me about this, they

say, "Oh, I tried that and I brought

someone in and they [ __ ] up and and so

yeah, I'm not I'm just going to do it

myself." That's like the rebuttal that I

always get. It's always people saying,

"Well, I tried that. I trusted someone.

They [ __ ] me over. So that doesn't

work."

>> What responsibility can they take in the

interview process? What responsibility

can they take in the onboarding process?

Did they actually show that person what

they were supposed to do? Did they

ensure that the person knew what to do?

>> Do you think most people are bad at

hiring?

>> Of course they are. People are terrible

at hiring.

>> Where do they go wrong? Like what are

the biases that they that end up

consuming that process that make them

make a bad decision?

>> I don't think they really understand

what the work is that they're trying to

get that person to do. So they Google a

job description or they chat GPT or use

Grock to put a job description that

isn't actually connected to the real

outcomes in the role. I can imagine if

you posted for a marketing position

inside your business. For you, marketing

looks like lots of different things.

Yeah. For the average business owner,

I'm just going to I need somebody to

help me with marketing.

>> They don't even know what they're hiring

for. Yeah.

>> No. So then the person comes in with a

certain set of experiences and they are

going to drive based off of their

experiences whatever they think the

outcomes are for their role inside that

business because the owner never took

the responsibility to say this is how

I'm going to objectively measure. Was

this person successful based off of the

fact that the marketing that we do for

our plumbing business that's doing

$800,000 of revenue is actually email

marketing?

>> So, what if I don't know the right type

of marketing? Cuz I'm a plumber. I don't

know about [ __ ] marketing. So, I'm

going to be very easily duped by someone

that tells me that they know marketing.

What do I do to

minimize the probability of me being

duped?

Well, the good news is if you are a

plumber currently and you're doing,

let's say, $800,000 of revenue, you

figured out marketing for $800,000 of

revenue. So, the first thing in order to

not be duped would be ensuring that the

person that you're bringing on can at

least do what you are doing and they can

duplicate what you are doing. Now, once

they've demonstrated to you that they

can take on those tasks for that

800,000, they are competent. They

understand the business. They understand

who your customer is because you forced

them to. because you documented what you

did did to get the first 800 and maybe

that's even referrals. Great. What is

your referral process? And how then once

they've been able to master what you

created a model for, I like to call this

the four M. Model, mimic, master,

multiply. The business owner can first

create the model of what they are doing

today that's generating the $800,000 of

revenue in their plumbing business. I

take a model. I have the model. This is

what we are doing for email marketing

inside our business. Then I move into

seeing if they can mimic what is the

behavior to then move into mastering it.

And once somebody is at mastering

something inside a plumbing business for

$800,000 a year that it's generating,

they can then start to tweak and add

things and and maybe we're going to also

try one other thing. We're going to try

Instagram marketing because we know that

our plumbing clients are on Instagram

and we're going to have this strategy

here. So now I'm going to be able to add

to that. At which point when a team

member can go through those first three

M's, model, mimic, master, then they're

in a position to multiply their role.

Because if they really did master

something, the results would show that

to indicate that the business is ready

for them to add potentially a marketing

coordinator underneath the marketing

manager that can then go through those

first three steps of the process. while

the team member who was once responsible

for those things is no longer doing

those things but is being additive to

additional types of marketing inside

that business. The the other thing that

I often wonder is if people aim too low

with talent, especially like earlier

stage founders, they tend they tend

there tends to be a bit of insecurity

there and they don't want

someone to come in and tell them what to

do in a particular domain

>> because I think the further I've got in

my career, the more I've sought out

people that are like significantly

smarter than me and I see that as the

game. But in the early innings of my

career, I think I was

hiring people I could manage.

Do you think you weren't as successful

when you were hiring people you could

manage

>> 100%?

>> Because now you're able to bring on

talent to help you bring on whole new

lines of revenue, whole new

partnerships, business opportunities,

manage those things.

>> Yeah. In the early innings of my career,

I was particularly aiming at young

people that were like my age or younger

cuz I was what I was what 20. So, I'm

like, how how the hell am I going to

bring in a 45-year-old that's been doing

this for 25 years and get and and be

able to tell them anything, which is

what which was the fault in my thinking

cuz I thought my job was to tell them

what to do and to give them the vision

and but actually as I I think got more

secure in myself, I realized that the

game is the inverse, which is try and

find truly exceptional people that know

things I don't know and create the

conditions where their knowledge is adds

to the hive mind of the decisions of

this organization.

And actually that's what we need. We

need new thinking, new experiences.

>> I think that's important once you reach

$30 million of revenue. But until you as

the founder

can generate something that you can

prove works and you can replicate what

works, you open yourself up to

significant risk. And the stats show it.

the the majority of businesses, 97% of

businesses fail within 10 years. So by

trusting or thinking that you're going

to bring on somebody who's smarter than

you, you're not actually taking on your

role to say this is what I want to

build. This is what I've built so far.

before you will be additive to this

environment, I need to make sure that

what we have built so far, the $800,000

of revenue, the $2 million of revenue,

the $10 million of revenue, I need to

first make sure that you can do that.

>> Because if you can't do that and we

can't duplicate what we're already doing

that works well, we don't know what is

the right idea to bring in because there

isn't a a core understanding of what

makes this business run today. And the

last thing that you want to do is bring

on a leader. Let's say your business is

doing $10 million of revenue and you

think that there's somebody out there

that is smarter than you who's going to

entirely change your sales process.

Maybe you weren't the best salesperson.

You hired a salesperson on very early.

They've tapped out in their ability to

add additional salespeople and really

properly run a sales team. Well, as soon

as that's happened and you're going to

bring on this external person, it would

be great if they could add $20 million

of revenue. But if it's through some

different product and different service

and different way that disrupts what got

you to 10 million, you're not at 10

million any longer. You're at 8 million

or 7 million. And there's real slipbacks

that happen. And to me, that's more of

the reality that I see, which is the

slipback because the business owner

doesn't know enough about the core parts

of the business to decide how the

business is run, what the core offer is

to have the confidence to then bring on

people who are additive that can't break

the business.

So you think we you should approach with

caution because there's risk associated

with on boarding people that might be

expensive and um

know too much about I guess be I guess

it goes back to being duped be able to

dup you by you not fully understanding

what they're saying and what they know

>> and they can't dup you if you know what

you are already doing. If you're really

willing to model what is currently being

done and they are willing to be humble

enough to come into your environment and

learn the reasons why. This doesn't have

to take years. This can take a handful

of months. I'm not talking about like

stifling innovation for quarters and

quarters or years and years to make sure

that they like really are indoctrinated

with the way that the organization

works. Absolutely not. That wouldn't

work. The way you have to do it is

quickly assessing that they understand

the way the things work inside your

current business. We just recently

brought on a new seauite um within the

first handful of weeks. I can tell that

he's picking up on what our core

business has does. And if I didn't think

that, it would be hard for me to trust

some of his recommendations because I

brought on a seuite team member earlier

this year who had all these fanciful

ideas and this, you know, the the big

names and you think that they're going

to bring on all these things, but they

can't actually contextualize what their

experience is to the core business

because they don't understand the core

business. And then it ends up

disenfranchising the team members that

they're responsible for working with.

And I have seen more often than not that

trusting too early on without that

founder getting the necessary skills

ends up in the luck scenario instead of

this was a strategy because I knew and

had certainty about what was going on

and I'm good with what my four walls

are. This is what you are going to

bring. That is incredibly additive to

that core business. But that rigor and

that discipline has to be there from the

founder first.

>> It's interesting. Yeah, it's really

interesting. And I think part of my bias

is because I've been there before. I

would never start a new business now

without aiming extremely high with the

talent. But that's actually because I'm

harder to dup now. So if you have to pay

someone a huge salary for example and

give them a huge package whatever

>> I'm better able to assess whether they

are worth it and what their ROI is going

to be versus the start of my career

where hiring someone on and taking such

a big risk on someone I didn't have

enough data to understand if I was being

duped or not. So it was a lot of faith

and trust and well they worked at this

incredible company so they must be good

and I've also seen that completely

backfire as well. Um, you talk about

these 10 steps to becoming a millionaire

in a video that you made uh in December

in 24 and there are a couple of things

that I wanted to to pull out here. So,

you out outline this 10-step process to

becoming a millionaire within a year and

one of them is researching what jobs

millionaires have.

Then rate your interest and skills in

each and pick one to master.

The other one is cut out friends who

drain energy or don't stop your goals.

Study the 10 most successful people in

your field through podcast, videos, and

books.

Use every moment to build skills. Follow

only millionaires on social media and

eliminate all distractions such as

Netflix and doom scrolling.

Be willing to invest and go into debt.

As without investment knowledge, you

will stay broke.

Attend events with successful people.

Research you'll be attending. Master

selling yourself, your customers, and

your team members daily.

On this point of selling, is there

anything on this subject of how to be a

great salesperson that we haven't talked

about that you think is important?

Whether it's selling yourself or selling

your ideas or selling your business or

>> one of my favorite quotes from Grant

Cardone, to the extent you are sold, you

will sell.

>> Oh, okay. So to the extent in which you

believe something is the extent you'll

be able to make others believe in the

thing.

>> Mhm. So if you're not sold on yourself,

on your business idea, on the product

that you're selling for the company that

you work for, on getting another

department to work crossunctionally with

you, if you aren't really sold on that,

you will not sell. But I think it goes a

layer deeper than that often times

because

it's easy to look at I'm not selling the

product inside my business. Maybe I'm a

team member. I'm in sales and I'm not

hitting my quota this month of cars that

I'm supposed to sell. And I'm like,

well, like I don't really feel good

about the fact that I sell cars. Like I

this car is a piece of crap. Of course,

I'm not selling the car. And you can get

very critical of the thing and

rationalize why you are not good at

sales. But if you really do take a step

back, why did you choose to sell cars in

the first place? Why is that the thing

that you said, I'm going to spend my

time and energy being sold on? You could

have chosen lots of other opportunities.

and you actually being sold on the PR

firm that you wanted to work at instead

of taking the sales job that you got and

not confronting the PR rejection that

you got landed you in this place where

you're unsold and then you're critical

of your environment and you're critical

of the product and then you think you're

not good at sales when really you just

needed to go back to that thing that you

were actually sold on because you sold

yourself on why you thought for you that

was your opportunity. then you just

missed the target and instead of being

unreasonable about the target, you

became reasonable and started selling

something you didn't believe in and then

you think that you're not good at sales.

And so the reasonleness

in yourself in what you want to be doing

is actually why I find that salespeople

can't sell. It's not about their

inherent skills. If I can get them sold

on the product, of course I'm going to

get them sold on the product. I help

business owners across the country get

sold on getting their team members to

sell roofs. I believe that somebody

knocking on the door and selling roofs

is the most important thing for that

team member. I am sold on the fact that

they're working for a roofer who cares

about them. So, I'm like, "Hell yeah,

let's get on the roof." I've was on a

roof about a month ago and then was on

another roof two months ago cuz I

literally helped these business owners

train their sales team members to sell

roofs. And these sales team members

aren't naturally interested in roofs.

They didn't wake up one day and thinking

like, "My life's dream is to sell a

roof." But what are they sold on?

They're sold on the opportunity to

potentially join this roofing company to

go from one location to two locations,

three locations, five locations because

the business owner has created that

vision for them and the salesperson can

sell themselves on the skills that they

have to understand how to sell a roof.

Maybe not the sexiest thing, but that's

a stepping stone in order to be a future

expansion partner with this business

owner because this opportunity exists.

So, how do I sell a roof? If I'm on that

roof with you and you're trying to train

me to sell the roof better,

>> how what are you saying to me is

>> Well, ideally, you're knocking on the

door of the homeowner.

>> Okay. I knock on the door.

>> You knock on the door.

>> Yeah.

>> And you go through if there was a storm.

There's all sorts of ways that you can

sell roofs, but let's say that there was

a storm nearby or recently that hit that

area and you could go the easier route,

which is going through insurance because

that roof is completely then paid for.

But then you'd need to go up on the roof

and or use a drone to look at the real

damage because that in and of itself is

a sales skill. Somebody going up and

pointing out the problem that that

person has that they do not know in that

moment that they have helps the person

feel confident in selling that roof. So,

it's just as much a part of a process to

go walk the roof or to fly a drone over

that roof to see the damage as it is a

selling mechanism for the salesperson

because you're not just selling somebody

a roof that doesn't need a roof. They

actually have a problem. And then you

would educate that sales individual on

the damage that that can do long term,

the value loss of that property. And if

you can sell the salesperson on why that

homeowner deserves to know that their

roof has something that insurance could

pay for that could get fixed for them

within a handful of weeks that doesn't

erode the biggest investment that that

person has likely made in their life,

their home. All of a sudden, I have an

army of salespeople who are interested

in selling roofs because they're sold

not just on the fact that it's a roof,

but the impact that that work makes on

the person that they're selling and

ideally the opportunity that they have

inside that company to be freaking great

at selling roofs.

>> So, you you pointed out the problem that

they have. You've then assigned a cost

to that problem, how much it's going to

cost them over the long term or short

term, and then you posed the solution,

which is to get the roof repaired. And I

guess you're trying to frame the

solution relative to the cost so that

the solution is not bigger or more

costly than the the cost of having a bad

roof.

Earlier on, you mentioned um this this

phrase which I've not heard before and

it was just before we started recording

you talked about a woman's wealth

transfer.

>> And when I asked you what was front of

mind for you at the moment, you

referenced that you were thinking a lot

about the women's wealth transfer. What

is this?

>> The women's wealth transfer. between

2025 and 2030 looks like just these are

US stats 10 trillion dollars are in the

hands of women right now and between now

and 2030 that number is going to go up

to $30 trillion.

So this wealth is going to balloon. And

when you think about the implications of

how this wealth transfer happens, it's

not just cash that is given to women all

of the sudden because they're making

more money. There's a transition because

of differences in life expectancy in

partners. A man and a woman, there's

about a on average

>> men are going to die first.

>> Yep. And it's about five and a half, six

years. So women are left with assets,

not cash, like homes, businesses,

portfolios, investments, bank accounts

that often times they were left out of

the conversation with the financial

adviser. And they don't actually know

how to operationalize, how to manage

because up until as recent as 50 years

ago, women weren't even allowed to open

bank accounts without their husband or

their father until that passed in the

80s. And so the wealth is actually

moving towards women. But women today

feel less financially able due to

content creation. There was recent study

done by a company called Elvest where

they analyze the amount of manifestation

content on the internet created by women

creators. There's 12 times as much

manifestation content from women

creators as there is investing and

equity content. Or 70% of women feel

more overwhelmed with financial

information after consuming the content

because it's a tip or trick or hack that

is being shared instead of a real system

and process for how do they take

something and systematize or

operationalize this business that has

equity. But then there's trucks maybe

that they're inheriting. Then there's

debt on this business. And it's just a

brand new conversation. And as women get

more financially literate, as they get

more financial opportunities, there have

to be more ways for them to be in these

conversations. They have there have to

be more ways for them to understand how

to navigate what opportunities didn't

exist structurally even up until as

recent as 20, 30 years ago. And so I'm

passionate about this because I see this

incredible time where

I help people every day understand how

to grow businesses and be competent in

businesses. So as the total wealth

transfer takes place over the next 20

years from baby boomers to the next

generation, that total wealth transfer

is about $124 trillion.

How do I equip women to feel confident

with the decisions that they're making,

to not just fire their financial

advisor, which 70% of them do after

their spouse dies within the first year,

and actually know before this

catastrophic event takes place, how they

control the money, how they feel

confident with the money. So that once

they have it, it is not in moments of

panic and stress and frustration that

they are having to figure these things

out. They already feel like they are

equipped with conversations about what

is a P&L and how do I understand what's

happening with my 401k and still some of

these concepts are just out of sight,

out of mind and traditionally held by

male roles in a household. So what would

you recommend people do who find

themselves in that situation where

they're they are financially illiterate?

You used the word earlier on financial

crisis.

>> Is that dovetailing into the same thing?

Is that because people is that the

financial illiteracy point?

>> You say financial crisis

>> for me the financial crisis is how few

people are actually making enough money

to make ends meet. The financial crisis

is that there are so many businesses, 35

million in the US alone, and yet less

than 200,000 make more than a million

dollars. And if less than 200,000 make a

million over a million dollars and the

average margin of a business is 8.5%,

you just you you're circling the drain

as to how much money people are actually

making. It seems like there's so much

money because of social media. And there

are team members who work in

organizations that make more than

$60,000 a year, but people are actually

making less money than I think society

believes because of the proliferation of

content creation. And so this crisis to

me is has much more to do with how do we

get people skills that they need with

our life expectancy in total looking

like it's going to be longer based off

of the different treatments that are

coming out due to AI in healthcare in

genomics.

>> What do you think is the most important

financial information the average person

needs in this regard?

>> I think the most important financial

information is actually that money

matters. And if money matters, how are

you spending your time today, tomorrow,

the next day to get skills and to do

things that generate money? And if you

can align your time with making more

money instead of thinking that it's some

fixed resource or there is some scarcity

around it, you could actually increase

the the top line because you can save

your way to the bottom, but you get to

the bottom. There's no abundance in the

in the bottom. So what are the skills?

Like if I was somebody that was trying

to earn more money today, I would go on

to one of the AI platforms and say this

is the set of skills that I have. These

are the set of interests that I have.

This is the current job that I hold,

what I do for work, and my goal is to

increase my income between now and 12

months from now by $100,000. what are

the specific skills and the associated

syllabus for each week if I carved out

two hours a day for me to learn that you

could put together for me so that I can

actually get skills that would

demonstrate that I'm able to make more

money. And I think that message is

missed when people talk about investing

and 401ks.

Sure, you can make your 6%, your 8%,

your 10%. But what can you actually

control? And what does every individual

have the ability to control? their

skills and how they exchange those

skills for problems that they are

solving in exchange earning more income

and then they're able to invest in and

do all of those other things. But those

things are ancilliary. They are not the

main thing. The main thing is you need

to get skills. You are going to live

longer. Wake up, smell the roses. The

world is going to be a very long place

that you are going to inhabit for the

next potentially hundred years on

average. So let's get comfortable with

learning more, understanding what our

stops are to learning so that we aren't

scared as the world changes of having to

acquire new skills. Before the diary of

a co was what it is today, it was just

an idea. And it started with me, a cheap

plug-in microphone, and my Mac right

here. And I have to say when I first had

the idea for the diary of a CEO, my

thinking was that the world might want

to see into the diaries of some of the

most interesting, successful people

really in high places that were doing

interesting things. So after recording

that first episode under my duvet, I sat

on my Mac, which is from our sponsor

Apple, and spent hours editing and

eventually uploaded it. And honestly, I

thought that would probably be it. But a

couple of my friends said they enjoyed

it, so I kept on recording. And over

time, the microphone has changed and we

now have this incredible setup here. The

thing that has stayed the same is I'm

still using the Mac. Even today, my

entire team across our studio still uses

the Mac. Our first few episodes maybe

had tens of people listening, but now

tens of millions of people tune in all

over the world, which is still

absolutely crazy to me. So, if there is

an idea that keeps tapping you on the

shoulder, this is your sign to start.

Your great ideas start on Mac. And you

can find out more at apple.com/mac.

I did something at 24 years old that has

had a profound impact on my life. I set

myself the challenge of posting every

single day on my social media channels.

And at the time, I was doing it to grow

my following. But it had this profound

impact on my life. And two remarkable

things happened when I did that. I

managed to learn faster because every

single day, I'm capturing what is

happening to me and trying to distill it

down into something that I can share

with the world. But more remarkably, it

led me to building a following of many

millions of people. And that's the basis

that I used to launch the diary of a co.

And that's why I want to tell you about

our sponsor today, Adobe Express. They

are the platform that I use to make all

the posts across my LinkedIn and across

my Instagram. It's a couple of clicks

and you don't need to be an expert. And

that is why I love using it because I'm

not an expert in graphic design. It's

accessible to use for all of us, even if

we don't have the technical prowess to

design great things. So, if you want to

start compounding both your reach and

your knowledge like I did at 24 years

old, then head to adobe./stephven.

y/stephven

and get started with Adobe Express.

That's adobe.

Stephven.

People love talking about passive

income,

>> especially on YouTube and the internet.

They everyone wants passive income. The

idea that you can make income and do

[ __ ] all is unbelievably compelling.

>> Sign me up.

>> I would like some passive income.

>> What is the reality of this? Because

there's a real obsession with figuring

out ways to make passive income. I want

to earn money when I sleep.

>> Um, what is the reality of that? Is that

is that a thing? Is that possible? Is

that something I should be aiming at?

>> You should aim at that. Once you have a

million dollars in your bank account

before you have a million dollars, don't

even think about passive income. You

have you have no asset to actually earn

passive income off of. And your time is

much better spent learning how do you

get your first million dollars than it

is through passive income and thinking

how you're going to earn a percentage on

the principle that you've invested. If

you make $60,000 a year, medium wage,

United States of America, if you make

$60,000 a year, 8% on that isn't gonna

get you to financial freedom. So, don't

figure out how to crack 8% to maybe I'm

going to get 15% returns because the

principle is still so small. The 60,000

is so small. What do you have to do?

Actually learn how do I make my income

160,000. But what's wild once people

learn how to do this and the skill of

learning is like it's the greatest drug

on planet earth because you learn how to

do something and you become competent in

it and as soon as you get there you're

like oh my gosh if that's all it took

for these people that I used to think

were special to earn an additional

100,000 and now all I have to do is do

that same process again to go from where

I'm at to be able to earn 1.6 6 million,

do a 10x, sign me up. Because you get

this confidence from learning how to do

things. And so passive income is great

at a certain stage of life and at a

certain stage of financial protection,

but it is not. It is financial

protection. It is not for the people who

are saying I want to go build something.

I want to grow something. I want to

create something. It is a it is to me

almost the opposite of survival

actually. It's your backup plan. It's

your rainy day fund in case [ __ ] hits

the fan. And I'm not opposed to having a

backup plan. It's good to have a backup

plan, but 99% of your time should be

focused on how do I make the first plan

go freaking right and do everything I

can today to control plan A.

>> You talked about acquiring skills being

the key thing there. Um obviously the

world is changing quickly because of AI

and all the skills that a lot of people

once acquired in university you know

accountants, lawyers, um podcasters I

guess

>> um our skills are quickly being replaced

by intelligence machines and systems

that can now do what we do. And when you

look around the corner at what's going

on in robotics, I think Neo, the

robotics company this week put on sale

their first humanoid robot which can

move through the physical environment

and do things. And when I combine these

two things, I can combine intelligence

with the ability to manipulate the

physical environment, I go, where are

where are humans going to going to be in

all this? Cuz it is conceivable. It's

perfectly conceivable to me that

much of what

we employ people to do these days will

be redundant in the in the near future.

>> Mhm. And that's not to say that there

won't be new jobs, but it's a difficult

time to be um investing heavily in any

particular skill set. Well, some to some

skill sets because they're they're

becoming invalid in no time at all. Like

even as a writer, so like I've written

two books and I enjoy the process of

writing. I considered it to be one of my

edges. I was like, I'm quite good at

writing. So that's useful. You can build

a personal brand. You can send good

emails. You can convince people,

investors, whatever it might be. But

even now like [ __ ] everyone's got like

AI now chatb2. they can just produce AI

slop and they can literally just say

write it like Steven or write it like

Natalie. So the edges are are going What

is the edge of the future in your view?

What is the edge? What is the skill I

should double down on that the robots

and AI aren't going to steal from me?

>> I think the only skill that we can

actually double down on in a world of AI

is the skill of learning and adapting

because we cannot predict what the world

is going to look like in 2040. We do not

know what robots are or aren't going to

be capable of. I'm not as bullish on

this. I watched Elon have a interview

over the weekend about his take on AI

and he said that it's a supersonic

tsunami in which he proceeded to explain

that supersonic is traveling at the

speed of sound and a tsunami is a wall

of water. And so if you think about that

being AI, it's coming, it's here, it's

fast. And of course, he benefits from

everybody believing all of those things

with all of the companies. And I am a

pro Elon person. I I love what he has

built. I love his mind. But I think that

we're further away than people think,

but it is still coming. And so the only

hedge that somebody can have is the

ability to adapt and learn. And what AI

should be used for with every individual

is the ability to learn. Acknowledge

what you don't know. That is the

greatest strength somebody has. Really

be comfortable saying, "I do not know

how to read a P&L. I don't know how to

read this legal contract. I don't know

anything about AI and what I've heard

LLM. Uh I don't really know what it is

or agentic. What's the difference?" And

be able to convince yourself why that is

the most important skill for you to push

past that barrier of learning something

new. That is so uncomfortable because

the the names are new and you feel like

a freaking idiot and then you think

everybody is smarter than you and that

you're just some fraud. To push back on

that and to have some resilience through

it to say, I'm going to adapt through

this. I'm going to get to the other side

and learn so that I concretely can have

confidence that I can change in any

environment based off of what's needed

of me in that environment and I will add

value to that environment regardless of

whatever the external circumstances are.

That is the only choice. There is no

alternative choice.

>> Are you scared about AI?

>> I'm not scared at all. I'm pumped. As

you can tell, I'm really excited because

I used to feel dumb. I used to feel like

there were things that these smart

people knew that I didn't know. And my

entire

outlook on life changed a handful of

years ago when this got launched because

AI has taught me in two years what I

would have had to go to school for and

would have had to get a degree in still

to just find out that most people who

went to school for those things and had

degrees in them missed something

critical and important. And so for me,

and I think people like me, and I don't

think there's anything particularly

special about who I categorize as people

like me, it is a unprecedented time to

lean into this reference of information

that can specifically tutor you on what

you don't know, to actually equip you.

you've never had this opportunity before

and it's not specific to you with your

gender or your race or your age. It's

accessible.

And so I'm beyond excited because

anything that comes up that's like, oh,

this just changed the whole dynamic of

the business. Guess what? I have AI to

help me understand that and to help me

get whatever skill I need in this new

world. Same thing that people 100 years

ago had to do. Same thing that 2,000

years ago people had to do. They just

didn't actually have a tool to help them

understand what was happening to then

learn what needed to happen from them

whatever they had misunderstood Zar in

in order to actually get to the other

side with real skills.

>> Natalie, what do you think is the most

important thing we haven't talked about

that we should have talked about as it

relates to what you know about who my

audience are and what they're interested

in?

I think this is a connected subject but

I would want anybody in the audience

whether you make 60,000 a year a million

a year a 100red million a year to

actually have the belief in themselves

that they can learn anything that they

want to know and that there isn't

actually a barrier there that exists

because if I could get people to really

believe that their entire life would

change due to the access that they have

today due to the tools that they have

today. And so taking that confidence

that I can walk into any room with any

big shot with anybody who knows

something about a particular subject

matter that I know nothing about and

feel totally comfortable being in that

environment because you can prep

yourself. You can learn about it and

life is so beautiful because you get

those experiences and you don't have to

be scared of them. you can learn and you

can understand and there's nothing

that's wrong with you to where you can't

and there's no special privilege or

special characteristics that somebody

has that you don't have in that you can

learn anything.

>> Did you used to think there were special

characteristics or some kind of genetic

genius gene that these people at the

very top had and and how how did that

change once you were in rooms with those

people? Of course, I thought that there

was some genius button that somebody

clicked at birth before coming out of

the womb where they just got to be

special and they got to understand

things. I really struggled growing up

with remembering numbers. Numbers were

so challenging. I would just reverse the

numbers and then they wouldn't stick in

my brain and I thought I was stupid for

so much of my life. And for anybody who

also struggles with that, what you would

come to find out being around lots of

people, successful or unsuccessful

people, is everybody has that thing. So

the faster that you can attack it and

get yourself comfortable with numbers,

what I realized is like that was just a

story I told myself because had I ever

spent an afternoon on a Sunday with my

extra time actually trying to get better

at remembering numbers. No, I hadn't. I

just used it as an excuse. And

successful people just limit the amount

of excuses that they allow themselves to

believe for why they aren't successful.

They take the limitation that they have

and either they so overindex in the

strength and they ignore that or they

realize that that limitation is actually

at a point where it is limiting them. So

they have to attack it and take the time

to get better and shore up that area to

then be able to springboard from there.

>> There's also I guess another layer to

this which is men tend to rate their own

performance higher than women do even

when their actual performance is equal.

And there's a bunch of different studies

that site this. There's one famous study

that people always talk about which

might not be I think might be refuted

now but it said that men apply for a job

when they meet 60% of the listed

qualifications while women only apply

when they meet 100% of the listed

qualifications which in part as it

relates to top jobs um in in Europe

people think that this is part of the

reason why men are more likely to be in

full-time top jobs um because they that

overconfidence

means they're more likely to apply and

therefore more likely to um I convince

pe other people and more likely to get

the job. So there is something there

seems to be a difference in genders in

terms of

the need to feel ready and the need to

feel qualified.

>> That's so real to me.

>> Yeah,

>> that is so real to me. I get to work

with people every day and I will have a

personal, professional, and financial

goal conversation with team members who

are in the exact same role. Let's say

they're an account manager. One will be

a female, one will be a male. The woman

is like a rock star. She like the

clients love her and she's so good and

she just has like this little like

magical spark. So, I'll be sitting with

them with their personal, professional,

and financial goal conversation, and the

woman will say, "Oh, I'd like to go from

making $80,000 a year to maybe in a year

from now making 90,000." And the next

hour I will have a conversation with a

guy, who is not as performant as she is,

and he will say, "Yeah, I'm making

80,000 a year. Think in the next three

years I should be up to 200, 250." I've

had this happen over and over and over.

So, I watch this in real time. And my

go-to in that is

to sit down with a girl and to say, "I

want you to imagine what your life is

going to look like in 3 years from now.

So, if you're 35 years old, you're going

to be 38 years old. What does life look

like? Who are you spending time with?

How much money are you making? Have you

traveled? Do you have a spouse? Do you

have kids? Like what what does life look

like? And what I want you to do if you

don't have an account already is I want

you to get hooked up with Pinterest and

you are going to create a board and you

just going to go through all of these

incredible things that you could have in

your life that you actually want. Not

the stupid things like the things that

you're like, if my life could include

that, it would change my life. I would

love to have that life. For me, that

would have been full sequin suit.

Because if you can't do that, you're of

course going to be stunted in what

you're going to do in order to get

there. If it was a man who was

struggling with that, though, I'd do the

exact same thing. That to me is the real

job of a leader is to inspire people

enough not about who you are and all of

your accomplishments, but to actually

have them see that they could have the

life that they want through the work

that they do every single day. and tying

those two things together and being

ruthlessly honest with them when they do

things that hold them back and remove

things that are in their way.

>> Natalie, we have a closing tradition

where the last guest leaves a question

for the next not knowing who they're

leaving it for. And the question left

for you is um a fairly well-known

question actually. It is, what would you

do if you knew you would not fail? If I

knew that I wasn't going to fail, I

would just like I'd fix world hunger and

I'd fix all of these things. But like

short of thinking that I could solve

those particular problems, it's it's

selfish to not have those goals and

dreams, I just think for my actual life

today, I really believe and preach and

to my core I feel act out that

I take massive action towards goals that

do seem unbelievable or unreal to me.

And right now the the set of goals that

I have are the things that I'm very

confident that I'm not going to fail at.

And I'm spending time doing those things

in order to get myself as close as

possible to the woman that I want to

become. And I could change my mind in a

handful of months or a handful of years

once I've achieved those things. But I

guess I already actually do think that

I'm living my life short of solving

world hunger and like world peace. that

I'm doing everything that I know how to

do to make an impact on the world.

>> I noticed that um you know I've had a

bunch of conversations on this show with

people like Evie Porus who is the uh the

the Secret Service agent and you have a

lot of similarities to her. M

>> I think because of the directness in

which you speak and I think part of the

resonance is people want to know how to

be taken seriously in this world

>> and I think they they they look at you

and see someone who is like them in many

ways or at least how they aspire to be

but is taken seriously in a world that

is often hard to be taken seriously in

especially as a woman in male-dominated

environments especially things like the

finance industry and investment industry

it's hard to be taken seriously it's

hard to be respected ffected.

>> And so people I think people have a deep

sense that they are being being

diminished. They are like misunderstood.

They're not being heard. And so they

when they hear someone that speaks so

clearly and with such conviction as you,

>> um they they want to learn how to do it.

>> Is there anything in that regard that

we've we've left off? because I was I

was I was on your YouTube channel and I

was looking at some of your recent

videos and one of the recent videos that

has been incredibly resonant to people

is this exact point which is the 1%

secrets to make anyone respect you

instantly.

>> Is there anything within the subject of

that video? And I was looking at the

comment section. It was a lot of people

talking about how they feel

someone has disrespected them or that

they feel they've been ignored or not

heard. Is there anything you'd say to

those people?

>> Being looked down upon, being not taken

seriously is actually your superpower.

And you have to convert the energy of

that frustration into what are you going

to do in that environment next time to

be taken seriously. I went to a charity

event was about a decade ago now and I

remember being mortified because I was

in this career pivot where I was making

the decision to work with Brandon and

the

>> your husband

>> my husband yeah and the proverbial

question of like what do you do came

around to me and I fumbled the question

and for the rest of that night and it

was actually a charity trip the person

just didn't take me seriously and they

were somebody that I wanted to respect

me and I was so pissed off at myself

that I messed it up that I hadn't

created something at 22 or years old

that was more impressive that they would

take me seriously and so I made it my

mission between that point and the next

year when we would go on that trip for

them to take me seriously and I had to

look at what do I have to do what do I

have to create in order for somebody to

take a 24 year old seriously

>> what did you have to do and create

>> well I launched a podcast and I had to

work on this communication skill cuz I

was terrified to communicate. I used to

not be able to communicate like this. I

had a horrifying experience when I was

in my early 20s where I was supposed to

present this new leadership program that

was being rolled out at this

organization. And I was nervous ahead of

time but was fairly confident in the

material that I was presenting. And I

walked up to the front of the room and I

was the first person to speak. It was

8:00 in the morning and I got through

five minutes of my hourlong

presentation. I turned around to the

presentation screen to point out

something and turned back to the

audience. And in that moment, I was

instantly petrified. The nerves took

over every fiber of my body. I could not

control what I was saying. My thoughts

and my words did not connect. And I

proceeded to give the rest of my

presentation that was supposed to take

an additional 55 minutes in seven. And

then I sat at the front of the room

while everyone around me was talking

about all the different components of

the things I was supposed to be

highlighting because I just couldn't

articulate them. And from that point for

about four years, I was unable to have a

conversation with people that had a

larger group than four or five because

this disconnect for me happened and this

anxiousness took place and I had to work

on this skill to learn how to

communicate. And so I launched a podcast

and the only topic that I felt

comfortable talking about at that point

I didn't have some business expertise. I

wasn't naive enough to think that

somebody was going to listen to me at

the wise age of 23 or 24, my early 20s,

and how to run a business. So, what did

I know at that point? And what was a

problem that I was seeing? Well, I was

actually around a group of people who

were in age gap relationships and having

all these conversations in secret, but

wouldn't publicly talk about it. And so

I started a podcast where I was talking

about what it's like being a third

marriage and being a stepmom and how did

we tell our parents and what are tools

to navigate something that feels really

crippling and almost embarrassing to

somebody who is a high performer. And I

proceeded to have that podcast every

single week. And I made it my mission

that year to make a toast at every

single meal that made sense for me to

make a toast at. So that I worked out

this skill of communicating. And working

out the skill of communicating is what

allowed me to go from being in a room

where I couldn't trust myself to even

introduce what I do to showing up the

next year and having made progress on my

communication and saying, "Hey, I I know

that you didn't take me very seriously

last year, but this year, I would never

say it like this, but this year I've

built this cool thing, and I actually

have this blog that has thousands of

readers every single month that is

generating this revenue. And you, Mr.

old man might not have taken me

seriously, but I could probably help you

in your business do the same thing

because I know that you don't know

anything about this. So, I gained a

skill in that process and was able to

talk about the skill that I knew was my

angle.

>> The top comment on that video is being

nice destroyed my life.

>> I can understand. Of course, it did.

>> The second comment is, "A friend to all

is a friend to none." People really

resonate with the topic of being liked

versus being respected. And people give

up their goals in order to be liked. And

they give up what they believe that they

can actually accomplish. And thinking

that it's okay to go all in on

themselves in order to be liked. And so

that message I know really resonated

with people because I start out the

video by talking about the difference

between respect and being liked and

really making that a choice and it's an

active choice, not a passive thing that

just happens.

>> I wonder why that is. I wonder why so

many people are really focused on the

the idea of being liked. They don't want

to be disliked and they want to be

liked, but in their pursuit of being

liked, they feel like they're

self-sabotaging in some way. like

they're disrespecting themselves. So

then they end up wanting to be okay with

not being liked.

>> What is the the answer there in that

vicious loop?

>> You have to choose who you want to be

liked by. And if you choose that you

want to be liked by people who are

respectable, you're not going to lose.

If you choose that you want to be liked

by your co-workers because they think

it's cool to [ __ ] on the company culture

or to

pretend like they're working but not

really care, then of course you're going

to get stuck in this vicious cycle

because you actually want to be

respected, but you're choosing to be

liked by somebody that is not

respectable. And

I think when you find yourself in a

position where people who are

respectable do actually like you, you

start to like yourself a little bit more

because you've made sacrifices. You have

to have made sacrifices in order to drop

the person that you were to become this

different version of yourself. And that

process is so painful because you shed

your identities and you shed people that

you thought you needed to be dependent

upon. But as soon as you shed that and

you,

it's almost like a butterfly. You

metamorphosize into this new person, you

will repeat that process over and over

again because of the confidence that it

brings you. And you like yourself. And

when you like yourself,

there's nothing better on this planet. I

love my husband. I love my team members.

I love my parents, my brother. There's

there's no amount of there's no greater

joy that I have than actually being my

own best friend. And I don't say that

from like a I'm just going to hold your

hand and we're just I'm just going to be

best friends with myself. I am brutally

honest with myself about what I am bad

at, what I am good at. And I don't

overindex either way. I'm just honest

with myself because I want to like me.

And when you like you because you've put

in work that you have to do to not lie

to yourself about what you want, then

the world is opened for you to pursue

whatever opportunities because you like

yourself and you're good with yourself

and that actually attracts more people

who want to do cool [ __ ] with you

because most people don't like

themselves and they're not their own

best friend and they think that that's

silly. But they are so mean to

themselves. And I get that cuz I used to

be so mean to myself and so critical.

Nobody would ever say to me what I would

say to myself. I would never say to a

friend of mine or even my worst enemy

what I used to say to myself. And I I

had to work on rewiring myself to

understand why I was so critical and why

I was so mean to myself to stop doing

that and to stop acting in that way that

then allowed me to work on the things

and fix the things that I didn't like

about myself. For instance, used to

watch way too much reality television. I

hated that I watched as much reality

television as I watched, but I loved all

of the Real Housewives, everything on

Bravo, but it made me feel crappy

because I liked their lives instead of

liking my own lives, my own life. And

when you like somebody else's life and

you're living into something that you

don't feel good about,

you end up being really rude to yourself

for obvious reasons. You're not creating

the thing that you want. You're just

circumventing. You're like shortcutting

it. And that stuff to me is is just as

powerful and maybe even just as harmful

of a drug as hard drugs and alcohol

because it's escapism.

>> Natalie, thank you and I'm very excited

to sit again with you in uh some point

in the future and get an update on your

PPS.

>> I appreciate

>> see how you're getting on.

>> Thank you.

>> Please keep doing what you're doing.

>> Appreciate you.

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Heat. Heat. N.

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