The Money Rule Rich People Never Tell You | Aspire with Emma Grede

So, darlings, today we're continuing our career goals guide, a series that is focused on giving you guys practical tools to navigate every stage of your career. Now, we've talked about how to

career. Now, we've talked about how to get the job. We've talked about how to advocate for yourself. And now, we're going to talk about what happens after the paycheck hits your account. Because

managing money isn't just about budgeting. It's about making decisions

budgeting. It's about making decisions that give you more freedom, more confidence, and more options in your career. Financial literacy shapes how

career. Financial literacy shapes how long you stay, when you leave, and how boldly you bet on yourself. Now, to help us break this down, I'm joined by the

incredible Vivian 2, businesswoman, New York Times bestselling author, and founder of Your Rich BFF.

[music] The Start with Yourself Tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City. [music]

Tickets are on sale now at emaged.com.

Hi, my darling Vivian.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so

excited.

I'm so happy to have you. I cannot tell you. I have to say I mentioned this to

you. I have to say I mentioned this to you briefly earlier, but before you came, I did a little like, you know, what do you guys want to know about, you

know, finances and savings and taxes and investments? I have never had more

investments? I have never had more people come back to me in a short amount of time than ever. So, I'm just going to let the uh the viewers decide what we're

talking about today because it's so wild how many questions people have about money.

100%.

It's nuts. It just really kind of got me going. So, listen, before we talk about

going. So, listen, before we talk about money systems, before we talk about the strategies, I've been so fascinated as I've been doing my research on you with all that you've accomplished and all that you've done. But your start was

really interesting because I realized you actually got like familiar with money because of your parents and their inability to be able to do that for themselves. Will you talk about that a

themselves. Will you talk about that a little bit because I think that people find it entirely fascinating that at this young age you know so much but it started early, right?

Yeah. So my parents are immigrants. I

was first generation born here. I am the only child, only daughter. No pressure.

And it really felt like my parents felt like being in America was such a gift that they were just content to survive.

They were going to work hard, put their heads down, and hopefully the universe would give them what they deserve. But

we all know that's not really how that works. We had to deal with the American

works. We had to deal with the American financial system. That included speaking

financial system. That included speaking to claims adjusters, the insurance people on the phone. It meant calling medical practices to be like, "What is this on my bill?" It meant trying to

negotiate for raises and promotions. And

the problem was English wasn't my parents native language. And so all of a sudden, I'm 8 years old on the phone.

It's like, yeah, my mom definitely doesn't want to pay this on the medical bill. And I'm like, I mean, Amy, like

bill. And I'm like, I mean, Amy, like me, like pretending to be my mom. And I

feel like I learned very quickly what it really took to be a good negotiator, what it took to actually understand money. And I'll never forget this. When

money. And I'll never forget this. When

I was, I believe it was end of middle school, early high school, I went to the mall with a girlfriend and we both went to a very popular hot teen store and we

got these completely distressed jeans.

They were more whole than jean. And I

came home and I was so excited to have these. And my mom found the receipt of

these. And my mom found the receipt of how much they cost in the bag and it turned into World War II. My mom was so angry with me. She said, "You don't understand the value of a dollar. you

have no idea how hard your father and I have to work to even like make ends meet to make sure that you have a future that we're saving for your college education that we can put, you know, put food on the table. And all I could think as a

the table. And all I could think as a young person to say was, "Well, you know, my friend got a pair, too." And my mom looked me dead in the eye and she said, "Well, her dad's a lawyer and her

family, like, you know, they're millionaires. We're not." And it was a

millionaires. We're not." And it was a stark reminder that we all have different stations in life. And because

we didn't have certain amounts of money, I couldn't have certain things and I wasn't deserving of those beautiful ripped jeans and I wasn't deserving of certain things. And it was painful. I

certain things. And it was painful. I

ran upstairs. I slammed the door. You

know, angsty teen stuff. But I made a decision that day. I was like, I'm going to be so good with money. I'm going to be rich. And no one is ever going to

be rich. And no one is ever going to tell me that I can't have ripped jeans again. Wow. Yeah.

again. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, that's pretty powerful stuff.

Yeah.

And so, what happened from there?

Because I kind of tracked your career, which is so interesting. And I think there's such a big difference between knowing about money and feeling confident with money. And it's

interesting that that exposure because for some people that can lead to such kind of like an inability to process money. You're like, you've got all of

money. You're like, you've got all of these relationships that your parents hold of money and you take those on as your own. But you kind of did something

your own. But you kind of did something very different. like you decided to

very different. like you decided to learn about it and I'm like I'm just very curious as to where that part of you comes from.

I think it just came because of being in the right place at the right time if I'm honest. Um my parents instilled in me

honest. Um my parents instilled in me very early that in this country education was really our biggest shot at socioeconomic mobility. If I wanted to

socioeconomic mobility. If I wanted to have a great life I was going to have to be a really good student. And I was. I

was the validictorian of my high school.

I end up going to the University of Chicago. It's an incredibly competitive

Chicago. It's an incredibly competitive institution. And junior year rolls

institution. And junior year rolls around and I'm like, "Oh no, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? I

look around and a lot of my peers were recruiting for Wall Street jobs."

I want to sit here and tell you it was this amazing vision that came to me. I

No, I literally was just like, "Well, if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me."

And so, I start doing the exact same things because I'm not a leader. I'm a

follower. And I start interviewing. I

end up having the good fortune of getting an internship at JP Morgan on the equities desk as a trader. And after

that summer, it was crazy. It's an

incredibly competitive program. You get

hired with a number of other interns, but you all know there's only one full-time seat. So, me and two other

full-time seat. So, me and two other boys were sitting there. We're basically

trying to elbow each other out for this seat. It became clear halfway through

seat. It became clear halfway through the summer that they weren't really going to work on the desk. They bring in two more interns. So, I'm now competing with two different people. At the end of the summer, five interns rotated through

that desk and I was the only one who got that final offer. And that's that's what we talk about Wall Street, like you eat what you kill. It's a dog eat dog world.

I got that job and it felt like all of the puzzle pieces clicked into place.

Not only was I going to get that sexy, you know, job where I got to live in New York City and make good money, really good money, um, but I also ended up getting a mentor. And I think that is truly the greatest thing that working on

Wall Street ever gave me. my first

manager. She was an Asian-American woman. I worked with 30 plus other white

woman. I worked with 30 plus other white men and her. And she was the first rich Asian woman I had ever seen in my entire life.

Oh, it's amazing.

And she would walk in to the office with a new designer bag every day. She had

these Gucci stilettos that would click clack on the marble. And she owned her apartment. She had a dog. Do you have

apartment. She had a dog. Do you have any idea how expensive it is to have a dog in New York City? I knew she had money. Mhm.

money. Mhm.

And for the first time, I saw a lived reality where I got to be a winner. And

that only furthered my desire, and she took me under her wing, taught me so many things that I know now. But I feel so grateful because without her, I don't know if I would have this story.

Do you remember how much money you were making in that first job?

First job, I believe my base salary was 80 or $85,000 and the first bonus I got was 10,000. So it's a little under six

was 10,000. So it's a little under six figures, but to me it felt like a lifetime's worth of money. I'd never

seen that kind of course. Never ever. All right. So you're

course. Never ever. All right. So you're

at JP Morgan. At some point you move and you end up at BuzzFeed in some kind of sales role and you massively are able to like up your salary, right? Like the

stakes get like kind of high.

You know, when I left JP Morgan, I got into a huge fight with my parents because they could no longer brag to the aunties on WeChat about me working at JP Morgan. And they were so against it.

Morgan. And they were so against it.

They were like, "We got you this amazing education and now you're going to go what? Like write quizzes for a living?"

what? Like write quizzes for a living?"

Cuz they didn't even know what BuzzFeed was.

But write quizzes.

What kind of cheese are you?

And it was so silly, but ultimately it ended up being the right move. And when

I left BuzzFeed, I had made $625,000 that year.

Wow.

And that's a ton of money.

Ton of money. Because we're going back what, 10 years? So, this was

6 years after graduation, probably 2022.

Um, but I I was making killer money. I'm

feeling really confident now in my finances because not only did I get the education you were 22, sorry, just to be clear, 2022.

This is 2022.2. I was

27ish, 26, 27. Doing the quick maths there.

26, 27. Doing the quick maths there.

But, you know, I just felt like when I got into this role and it became a sales role, it really was like if I can write one more email, if I can out hustle the person sitting next to me, if I can stay

just an hour later, I will make more money. There was a direct correlation

money. There was a direct correlation with how hard I worked with what I got paid. And I loved that because I felt

paid. And I loved that because I felt like I had this confidence to be able to take a bet on myself and it ended up being the right move. I made all of that money, especially it came in chunky

commission payments. It was a sales job.

commission payments. It was a sales job.

That's essentially what helped me buy my first home. It's really what helped me

first home. It's really what helped me invest a ton into the market. Um, and it has changed the trajectory of my life.

Did you enjoy that job?

I loved it.

You did?

I really did. I think

So, you were making money, but you're also loving what you what you did.

I think I'm very much someone who loves what I'm good at.

So, like I like that feedback loop of winning. So, there was a um a TV like

winning. So, there was a um a TV like system all around the office and every time you closed a deal, you had a deal song that would play.

What was your song?

I can't even remember, but come on.

It was probably like Money by Cardi B.

[laughter] Um that works.

Yeah, it works. But, you know, every time you closed a deal, your song would play. And I remember there was one

play. And I remember there was one season, there was one quarter where I was basically closing a deal a day and people were like, "Dude, you need to change your song. Like, we don't want to." Yeah. We're like, "We're done with

to." Yeah. We're like, "We're done with this." You're like, "Come on, it's Card.

this." You're like, "Come on, it's Card.

We're going."

And I felt so proud.

Yeah. Damn right you.

Because I could point to a scoreboard and say, "I win." And I love that. I'm

competitive.

You are super competitive. How can I not [laughter] be?

I found it so interesting though because again, there's we're here to talk about money and I often complain on this podcast that I find it quite difficult to draw people into the conversation of

money. How do you think, especially now

money. How do you think, especially now that you've been working in this space for so long and going back to kind of those early days when you were, you know, surrounded mostly by guys at JP Morgan, how much do you think has

changed, especially as we start talking about women and finances? What are the differences that you see now? You know,

I think from then to now we have really democratized the financial conversation because social media, you know, you see people talking about loud budgeting or

these trends of like, oh, I want a pro a provider man. I have decided that I want

provider man. I have decided that I want a soft girl life like I need to have certain things in my life to feel happy.

This type of financial commitment. Um,

we didn't have those conversations even a decade ago when I started my career. I

do think that there are still a lot of taboos around talking about money, but I encourage everyone who feels awkward about it to think about it this way. Why

is it weird that two women like us are having this conversation and I'm giving you numbers versus imagine you're at a country club, two gentlemen, both maybe

investors, maybe hedge fund managers, whatever. They're teeing off. They've

whatever. They're teeing off. They've

got a cigar in hand. They're talking

about their portfolios. They're talking

about what their mortgage rates are and who did their mortgage at what bank.

They're talking about what their kids' private school tuition costs. Why is it weird for us but not for them?

You tell me. Because I hear these conversations every day. Every day I hear my husband on the phone and he's whipping and swatching information and he's giving tips and they're giving tips

back and they're, you know, trading contacts and yet I so seldomly have similar conversations with my girlfriends. And in fact, I think I've

girlfriends. And in fact, I think I've become the person in my circle that people call when they want to have that conversation, when they've made a bit of money and they need a recommendation or

they're thinking about investing because people know that I speak about it very freely. I have nothing to hide and I'm

freely. I have nothing to hide and I'm really happy to have the conversation and to share my information.

But can I tell you where that comes from? Let's talk about Oh, yes. Yes.

from? Let's talk about Oh, yes. Yes.

You're I'm right there with you. Because

men have told have been told their entire lives that like you should grow your power.

You are allowed to have these conversations. But there are actually

conversations. But there are actually fewer women CEOs in the Fortune 500 than there are guys named John. [laughter]

You don't see John's being like, "Oh no, like there's another John CEO. I can't

be one." But we as women have been told that we have to be the only one, the only token woman CEO, the only winner, and that there's not enough white space for all of us to be in the seauite. You

should feel lucky that they picked you instead of arguing with other women, competing with them, trying to outdo them. We'd all be better off just trying

them. We'd all be better off just trying to grab a larger slice of the pie from the gentlemen. If we can have more seats

the gentlemen. If we can have more seats in the seauite, if we can have more women founders, more women CEOs, we don't have to feel that way. We get to do the exact same thing they do. We get

to swap notes, we get to share, we get to have these conversations because it's very much you scratch my back, I scratch yours.

But you can't be scratching other people's backs if we don't all come from positions of power.

So, how do you think about opening up these types of conversations? Like when

you think about how you and your friends talk, like what is the big difference and how do you encourage people to actually get on the same wavelength as you are now?

You know, I think it has to be a two-way street. There are certainly people in

street. There are certainly people in your life that you have money conversations with and they are going to use it as a factf finding mission to then twist the knife. They are going to ask you to borrow money. They are going

to try to get ahead of you. They want to see you do well, but not better than them. they [snorts] are going to use it

them. they [snorts] are going to use it as a way to hold it against you. You

have to be able to identify who those people are. But then there's the

people are. But then there's the alternative.

There's the alternative.

There's the alternative. I'll give you an example. When I was at BuzzFeed, I

an example. When I was at BuzzFeed, I had a girl that I was best friends with.

She worked on the same team as me, sat right next to me. I called her my work wife. And it was right before end of

wife. And it was right before end of year reviews, and I was like, I need to figure out what I can ask for in a raise.

So, I grab her arm, I drag her to the bathroom. I'm like, tell me how much you

bathroom. I'm like, tell me how much you make. And she was like, what? And I'm

make. And she was like, what? And I'm

like, "Okay, I'm going in for my interview review. I just need a

interview review. I just need a benchmark to see what I could even be asking for." And she's a couple years

asking for." And she's a couple years older than me. So, she tells me what she makes. I'm like, "Okay, cool. That's

makes. I'm like, "Okay, cool. That's

good information." I go, I have my, you know, end of year review. And I'm like, "With the amount of work and, you know, success that I brought to the team this year, I believe a raise of XYZ is commensurate. I would like my all- in

commensurate. I would like my all- in compensation to be this." I stop talking. I end up basically getting what

talking. I end up basically getting what I want. So, then I get back to my desk.

I want. So, then I get back to my desk.

I grab her by the arm. We go to the bathroom. I'm like, "Okay, they gave me

bathroom. I'm like, "Okay, they gave me this, but you're older than me. You have

more experience than me, and you close more deals than I did. This is what you need to be asking for." She goes, "Hear you loud and clear." She goes into her meeting.

We both end up getting paid more. It's

not competitive.

No.

And we just saw both of us do better because we shared that information.

It's a winwin. And I feel like it's always a win-win. And we have to get out of the scarcity mindset because it's only hurting us. I speak to so many people, they're like, I just have nobody

that I can speak to. And I'm like, speak to your friend, speak to your mother, speak to whoever is in your vicinity because everyone has something that they can share and something that's going to

be like a complete eye opener to you and maybe even someone not in your close vicinity. I've actually found that with

vicinity. I've actually found that with a colleague most of the BFFs are actually more comfortable sharing information with each other than they are with their best friend because they

feel like okay well I live in Denver, you live in Boston. We're never going to be competing for the same job. We're

never competing for the same, you know, apartment.

I'll tell you what I do. Easy enough.

Easy enough. So, let's talk about stability. It's kind of feels like such

stability. It's kind of feels like such a cornerstone of the way you speak about financial literacy and understanding and there's something you know you talk about wealth building starting with

stability. Can you just like double down

stability. Can you just like double down on that a bit for me?

Yeah. You can't build a home on sand, you got to build a home on cement, right? And so for me thinking about what

right? And so for me thinking about what it's all for, what's the purpose? What's

the point? Financial literacy should all start from a base of stability. This

means having an emergency fund.

Typically, I recommend three to six months of living expenses if you're single, 6 to 12 if you are ahead of a household. It's paying down high

household. It's paying down high interest rate debt. What I'm really talking about is credit cards. Those can

compound super super fast. But if you've got student loans or maybe even a mortgage, like those aren't nearly as quickly growing. Um, it's all about

quickly growing. Um, it's all about setting healthy boundaries. I know so many people and especially in immigrant communities, the second you make it big, the second you make six figures,

everybody and your uncle are calling you being like, "Emma, can I have a small business loan of $500,000?"

And you're like, "What? What do you mean?" And I think

mean?" And I think I have no idea what you're talking about, V. Never happened.

about, V. Never happened.

You're like completely can't relate to that. Um, but it's crazy, right? Because

that. Um, but it's crazy, right? Because

people want to drag onto your coattails.

But what I encourage people to do is make sure that you are at a place of stability already so that you can lower the rope and pull people up, but not that you're being dragged down.

Yeah. I mean, I think this is really important and I even like to start like one step ahead of this because before stability, you have to have a vision for yourself, right? And I feel like so many

yourself, right? And I feel like so many people are like, I want to be rich. I

want to have, you know, this, you know, whatever it might be that's in your mind's eye. But I feel like having real

mind's eye. But I feel like having real specificity, like what does that mean to you? And I feel like one of the best

you? And I feel like one of the best things that I did when I was very very young was have like real specificity. I

was like, I need to get out of this situation of living in this place and I would really really like to do that and I needed a certain baseline salary. At

the time it was £65,000.

I was like, I need to get to 65 because for this rental amount in this type of area, like that's just that's just what you need. That's just what you can have.

you need. That's just what you can have.

Do you often find that when you're talking to people, they haven't, you know, they've got like these ideas and these things that they say, but it's just not like it's not there. It's not

concrete.

And that's why I say everybody needs to set smart goals. So smart stands for things specific, measurable.

Oh yeah.

You have to make sure that it's actionable, realistic, and time bound.

To your point of I need to make $65,000.

That's very specific. That's a number.

So when people are talking about I have a vision for my life. I'm like okay so what is the specific goal? You want to open an Etsy store in 3 months. So we have to make sure

that it's measurable. It's like how do we make sure we can actually assess whether or not you succeeded or closed like so maybe the Etsy store has to have a revenue number that we have to hit

actionable. This can't be something that

actionable. This can't be something that happens to you. It has to be something that you control. We got to do it ourselves. So, we have to do something

ourselves. So, we have to do something and you have to be able to do an action item.

Realistic. Come on. We're not going to become billionaires tomorrow, but we could perhaps become millionaires in 5 years time. I don't see why that would

years time. I don't see why that would be so unachievable. And time bound is the most important one. If you say this is my goal, this is my goal. And you've

said it for the past 10 years. You say

it every single New Year's. You It's not happening. Tell yourself how much time

happening. Tell yourself how much time you have. You have three months to do

you have. You have three months to do this one thing. you have six months to do this next thing and you have one year to make the whole thing happen. When you

write it out, when you tell a friend, you are that much more likely to actually accomplish it.

Yeah, I really truly believe that. What

do you say to people that would struggle with even the jumping off point, like the stability piece? If you're living paycheck to paycheck, how do you even get to a place where you're stable?

Well, I don't want to sound so tonedeaf as to say that you can budget your way out of poverty or, you know, invest your way out of a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle. But if you are willing to put

lifestyle. But if you are willing to put yourself in a place of discomfort for a temporary period of time, I am talking about being exhausted every single

night. You are going to be so tired, you

night. You are going to be so tired, you are going to literally be asleep before your head even hits the pillow. But pick

up that second job. Get that side hustle. Maybe you need to just be

hustle. Maybe you need to just be putting extra hours at your current job.

And that way at the end of the year, you can demand that raise and promotion. And

frankly, if they're not going to give it to you, someone else will.

But it's a very simple equation to getting what you want and making more money. You have to increase the amount

money. You have to increase the amount coming in. You have to decrease the

coming in. You have to decrease the amount going out. And you have to invest everything in between. And for most people, the easiest thing to do is to increase what's coming in. Because at a

certain point, you can't cut that much more out before you're like, I'm just not eating or I'm just not, you know, living my life with any joy. It's

simple, but it's the discipline that is required to do it day in and day out that is the challenging part.

Absolutely. But don't you think that most of us have been through, and this is where I think it's really important to have a level of honesty around this.

We've all had those times. I feel like for maybe six years in my life, I lived doing kind of, you know, work that was massively unenjoyable, working way too

hard, too many hours with seldom vacations and not that much great stuff going on, but it was a period of like hustle.

Can I tell you a quote that completely rewired my brain, please?

If you are not willing to make sacrifices for your dream, the dream is what you have to sacrifice.

End of. I actually call them my peanut butter jelly days because oh, it's so real. By the way, like people think,

real. By the way, like people think, "Oh, you had a Wall Street job.

Everything must have been so amazing."

Let me tell you, let me set a scene of what my life actually looked like. Okay,

I was waking up at 5:00 a.m. I was in the office by 5:45. I probably didn't leave the office until 6:30 or 7:00. On

many nights, I had client events, so then I had to be out with them talking, smooing until 9 or 10.

I lived in a studio apartment with another girl. Like there was no flex

another girl. Like there was no flex wall in between our beds. It was just a glorified dorm room.

I love this. You're working at JP Morgan. Your family are out here

Morgan. Your family are out here boasting about it.

Boasting. I'm in a studio apartment peanut butter and jelly.

Peanut butter and jelly. I remember

exact. Like I remember opening my fridge and being like, "What is in here?" There

was like a bushel of green grapes, a couple Gatorades, and bread and peanut butter and jelly, and that was it.

Oh, yeah. And it was because if I wanted to actually get to where I needed to be, I needed to be making sacrifices. And it

it's not fair. I wish I wish I could have been born into generational wealth.

Can you can I tell you how easy that would have been? How amazing.

Would it be nice? Would it have been nice for all of us? But sacrifices are really real. And I don't think

really real. And I don't think sacrifices necessarily stop. I I looked at something that you posted the other day that was about you s like not buying a Birkin.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. [laughter]

But it's interesting because I think everybody looks at you now and would never imagine that you're still here making sacrifices for the life that you ultimately want to live.

Like I I can sit here and make a joke like I want a Birkin. I would love a two-tone AP watch. I would love to be able to drive an Aston Martin. I want

all of those things. I'm not immune to the Instagram ads, okay? [laughter]

But I also want to retire my parents. I

also want to be able to purchase a single family home with my husband. I

also want to be able to be setting money aside into 529 accounts for future children. I want to be able to leave a

children. I want to be able to leave a legacy behind.

Those don't really translate as well into the infeed grid, but not so much.

Not so much.

Just like the peanut butter and jelly eating doesn't.

It ain't sexy. [laughter] It's not.

I love that you had those shoes. I had

exactly the same, but mine was um Jacob's cream crackers and a block of cheese. That tells you a lot about my

cheese. That tells you a lot about my savory tendencies or a baguette cuz you could get like so much bread for 99.

[clears throat] Uh but it was that that was it. That was just the reality of

was it. That was just the reality of what you did to get through the day and it doesn't last forever. But I love this idea of like still making sacrifices.

You still have a plan. You have, you know, a way that you want to live and a bunch of goals and things that you want to do and you make sacrifices for them every single day. I mean even now I see

you making sacrifices all the time whether it's hey I have to be away from my family to run my business I have to be away from my business to run my family like every day you have to make a

choice I want to talk to you about this idea of discipline and intention and goal setting and thinking long term and just to understand a little bit about

the habits that you have to create to to get there because this stuff like you might say it and and then wake up feeling really differently like any other uh habit that you try to put in

place. What actually worked for you?

place. What actually worked for you?

Infrastructure. I am I have no willpower. Like none. I am someone who

willpower. Like none. I am someone who will not go to the gym unless the gym bag was packed last night and I'm already wearing a sports bra. And so I know that about myself. If you know you

have poor willpower, which most of us do, you're going to have to set up systems that help you out. So I always say this is like the payday system. When

a paycheck hits, don't have all of it go into your checking account. Have some of it go into a savings account. I also

think having money dates with a significant other sets up a system of oo we are working towards the same goal. So

even though I would love to go on a really big night, you know, out with the girlfriends or maybe even do a long weekend trip with them, I need to be saving this so that we can actually take

our summer vacation together. setting up

those systems allows you to avoid thinking about it because the real liability in your like pathway to success is you.

So, what do you say to people that have, you know, it's like they've done what they need to do? They've sat down, they've thought about their vision, they've thought about their goals, they're going to make sure that, you

know, they're really writing everything down. What are the keys to financial

down. What are the keys to financial freedom? What are the keys to this idea

freedom? What are the keys to this idea that we're all obsessed with, generational wealth?

Yeah, I think a big key is knowing what you want. It's a it's about planning. Um

you want. It's a it's about planning. Um

I always say it's really fun to calculate your FU number and you basically just envision your perfect year. You live how you want to live.

year. You live how you want to live.

Maybe you're supporting family, kids, whatever. Um you get to travel. You get

whatever. Um you get to travel. You get

to do whatever you want. Then you

imagine what that year costs and divide it by 0.04.

That represents 4%. 4% is an incredibly conservative return. You can get 4% from

conservative return. You can get 4% from some savings accounts right now. So, you

can count on that.

Then that number that you've now calculated is how many dollars you would need to have invested to then be able to provide the money you need to live your life. You never have to work again. And

life. You never have to work again. And

the beauty of it isn't that I'm encouraging people to try to just race to this number and then kick back and relax forever. But if you know what the

relax forever. But if you know what the goal is and you get halfway there, does that mean you get to start prioritizing other things over money? Maybe your time

is worth more. Maybe your family is worth more. Maybe it's just convenience

worth more. Maybe it's just convenience for you. But I want to know where I'm at

for you. But I want to know where I'm at on the road map to my goal.

And if I'm honest with you, I calculate this number all the time. I love doing it. I think it's really fun.

it. I think it's really fun.

I don't know if I'll ever retire because I have built a life that I really enjoy.

And that's the whole point. You want to love today while still taking care of tomorrow you.

But isn't that kind of daunting for you?

Like you've reached the point where you're like, I don't know that I'll ever retire.

No. Because when I say that, people are like, "What? What do you mean? You have

like, "What? What do you mean? You have

the money for it?" And I'm like, "Yes, but like retirement isn't just, you know, turning in your badge and then just being done with your life and [clears throat] then it's all downhill."

Like, retirement can look very different for me. Retirement might be I work for a

for me. Retirement might be I work for a nonprofit two days out of the week. Two

days out of the week I get to spend with my family and then one day out of the week I have for miscellaneous. Yeah.

Retirement doesn't have to be giving up on your life and just in the decline.

Retirement is whatever you want to make it out to be. And I'm probably going to work in my retirement.

Me too. No doubt.

I can't imagine you ever letting go of something.

I mean absolutely no way. So when

somebody gets like a raise or a bonus, what's a change in their financial strategy? What do you recommend? I think

strategy? What do you recommend? I think

raises and bonuses are a really dangerous time because if you're not careful, you make a little bit more, you spend a little bit more, and then all of a sudden you get to the end of the year

and you're like, "That's weird. I got a $20,000 raise, but I am no better off for it."

for it." I feel like so many people feel like So many people. And that's why you're seeing people who make half a million dollar a year still say they're living paycheck to paycheck because all of

their expenses have gotten bigger.

They've gotten a much nicer apartment.

They got that fancy car. They had to have kids and they put them into private school. And now all the money's gone

school. And now all the money's gone anyway. And you're still not setting

anyway. And you're still not setting yourself up for success for tomorrow. So

what I say is when you have a bonus, you get to think about where you want it to go, but it has to take care of different aspects of your life.

So as soon as you get a bonus, I encourage people to put some of it into savings. Invest some of it. Make sure

savings. Invest some of it. Make sure

that you're paying down your debt. But I

always say allocate a little bit just for fun. When I got uh my first very big

for fun. When I got uh my first very big bonus at JP Morgan, I went out and I bought a black leather Prada bag. It was

the first designer thing I ever owned.

And that I when I tell you that bag made me feel invincible. It was the first time that I wanted something and I got it for myself because I could afford it because I put in the, you know, blood,

sweat, and tears. And that was such an accomplishment. But if I'm honest, every

accomplishment. But if I'm honest, every bag I've bought after that, you don't get the same rush.

Not quite the same.

It's not quite the same.

It's never quite the same. And what do you even think about people actually like even getting pay rises? Because I

feel like there there are a lot of people that take charge and they push that for themselves, but some people are pretty content to wait for the race.

Why would you be content to wait for the raise? It's never going to come. I have

raise? It's never going to come. I have

a lot of women that work for me across various different businesses and there is a huge correlation like when you look at who comes in and asks for a raise, who comes in and like just shoots their

shot and like goes for their absolute, you know, sky. Um, it's not usually the women in the office and you know, you will often find that women are missing

pay cycles. They're missing increase

pay cycles. They're missing increase cycles because they just are not asking so much. The smartest person in the room

so much. The smartest person in the room is not the person who gets paid the most. It's the person who's the best

most. It's the person who's the best advocate for themselves. That is

unfortunately how it goes. You need to tell people what you're going to do, do it really well, and then tell them what you did. And what really frustrates me

you did. And what really frustrates me to no end is that people think that if they put their head down and they work really hard, oh, maybe management will finally notice that. You're not getting noticed. I'm telling you that right now.

noticed. I'm telling you that right now.

First off, I think that you should always be aiming to be in the top quartortile of performers. If you are not in that top quartortile, that is your first step because it is embarrassing to go in and ask for a

raise and then somehow get put on a performance improvement plan. That

sucks. You don't want that.

That sucks. And that happens a lot.

It does. It does. They're like, "I deserve a raise." And you're like, "You've actually showed up late the past four days." Like, no. Um, you need to

four days." Like, no. Um, you need to make sure you are a top performer because guess what? Top performers

always get paid. Good market, bad market. Top performers. Top performers

market. Top performers. Top performers

are kept around. They are safe and they are always prioritized. Facts. If you

are a top performer, I encourage everybody to go into their boss's office every year, set time, and ask for 10 to 15% more than they are currently making.

Am I promising you're getting 10 to 15?

No.

No. But you got to ask.

You got to ask. And maybe you'll get eight.

Eight is great. You want to know why?

Eight beats inflation. Eight means you make more than you did last year. And

you have to actually have the receipts to back it up. Janu, I always encourage everyone start to make a folder. label

it raise seats, promo pitch, brag book, whatever you want to call it. And the

year, anytime something great happens, say I work for you, you write a nice email, you're like, "Wow, that product launch was so amazing because of Vivian.

Congratulations to the whole team. I am

saving that email. I put it in my little folder." So then come June or July,

folder." So then come June or July, midyear review or end of year review around November, December, January, I am able to literally have a laundry list of every time I was congratulated, every

time a sale went through because of me, every time a product launched because of me, every time a marketing campaign was perfect because of me, and then I say because of the experience and

achievements I have brought to this team over the past year, a raise of XYZ would be commensurate what with what I have accomplished.

And then this is the big key. You stop

talking. I did this crazy thing.

Shut down.

My first year when I asked for a raise, I followed it up with, "But if not, that's okay."

that's okay." Girl, why did you just do all that? If

If not, it's okay. It's not okay. Just

let them be the one to tell you no.

People psych themselves out. They think

it's rude. It's not. Just wait for the silence. Silence is okay. Let them tell

silence. Silence is okay. Let them tell you no. But more often than not, the

you no. But more often than not, the answer isn't going to be yes or no. It's

going to be, "Thank you for sharing this with me. Let me go back, take it, see

with me. Let me go back, take it, see see what budget we have to work with, and I'll come back to you." Experience a membership that backs your business journey with American Express Business

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[music] I want to talk to you a little bit about this idea of financial literacy and some of the differences in men and women.

You've obviously taught yourself to be incredibly financially literate and there comes like a a comfort level in asking for things when you have the right words and you've got the right

vernacular. How do you talk to people

vernacular. How do you talk to people about going about that and becoming more financially literate?

I think it is a process. It's a journey.

It's step by step. But as you become more financially literate, it literally is like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You

feel more confident talking about money.

You have more money. And when you have more money, you can go into negotiations just a lot stronger. Mhm.

What I would say is the first thing you work on when you are trying to become financially literate though is actual jargon.

The problem with learning finance is it feels like another language. When people

are saying things like APY, APR, 401k, you know, 403b, like FICO score, you're like, what do all of those words mean?

And you don't know. And so it's getting educated in those spaces, getting a mentor. My mentor changed my life. And

mentor. My mentor changed my life. And

it she was the person I asked all my stupid questions to. I was like, "What is a FICO score?" And she's [snorts] like, "Girl, what is yours?" I'm like, "Uh, I don't know. Can I have this

credit card or no?" Um, and having that person who can explain it to you is so helpful. This can be any sort of

helpful. This can be any sort of professor in a academic setting. This

can be an older colleague at work that you respect, that you look up to. This

can be someone from your house of worship, from your community center. It

can be anybody.

Yeah. And you can learn from everywhere because I feel like the way I grew up quite frankly there was nobody in my proximity that I would even imagine would could be my mentor or that I'd want as my mentor

frankly but it's like I read everything you know I was 14 years old with the Financial Times because I was like surely that's about finance right and I would read it but the the the way they

spoke the way articles were written the certain words that were in there it became something that wasn't intimidating to me it became became something that I wanted to lean into and learn from. And back in those days, by

learn from. And back in those days, by the way, before [laughter] there was even an internet, you were looking in a dictionary or looking in an encyclopedia and looking up what those terms meant.

It is so easy for us to learn about concepts. But it's on you, right? You

concepts. But it's on you, right? You

have to go out there and look for it. I

would also say that we need to unbrainwash all of the young women listening and tell them that it's okay to want to be rich because right now if

you hear a woman say, "I want to be rich. I want to be wealthy." She's a

rich. I want to be wealthy." She's a gold digger.

Mhm.

Lame. It's not because when you hear a man say, "I want to be rich. I want to be powerful. I want to be wealthy."

be powerful. I want to be wealthy."

We're like, "CEO coming up. Let's go."

Like strong personality. But when women are proud and confident and want finances in that way, it seems like such a negative stereotype. But I also think

it comes a lot from how we talk about like money with men and women. With men,

it's about growing your wealth, investing, you know, taking charge. But

with women, you've heard the pop culture confessions of a shopaholic. Oh, you

don't have to, you know, spend all your money, save your avocado toast money, and don't get that latte. It's like why are all of these like tropes villainized when in fact women have less debt across

every single category except for student loans.

We do better. I mean we do better when it comes to investments. When you look at women's portfolios it's like it's very very women make incredible CEOs

because we are so fiscally responsible and they own more homes in all 50 states than single men. So single women own more homes in all 50 states than single men.

Wow. And you're trying to tell me we're the ones bad with money? I don't think so.

It's a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy because sometimes we feed into this idea that we don't know enough about money. I got so irritated when

about money. I got so irritated when that um there was like a meme going around or like a Tik Tok trend going around last year. There was all of these women telling their husbands, you know,

darling um I can't make my mortgage payments this month. And you know, the husband would be like like when will you ever make the mortgage? like, "Do you even know our provider is?" And I must have been sent that 50 times. All my

friends were like, "We know this is driving you crazy. We know you've had the conversation with us in the past about our mortgages and our lack of understanding around it." And so, it's

high time that we got involved in those conversations and made sure that it is on us because women are making money.

They're creating incredible businesses.

We're creating unbelievable value and yet there is still some, you know, something in the ether that makes it to be that, you know, and the minute a

woman admits that she cares about money, we're like, what a [ __ ] Yeah. But Emma, imagine if I told you

Yeah. But Emma, imagine if I told you every single day, you are not pretty.

You are not pretty. You are not pretty.

I would be like, don't be ridiculous.

Don't be [laughter] true. But at a certain point, you start to believe it.

At a certain point, you start to believe it.

If you say, "I'm bad with money. I'm bad

with money. I'm bad I'm bad with money."

You start to believe it. Our words have so much power. And I cannot stress this enough. Every single woman, one, needs

enough. Every single woman, one, needs to have their own money because you need to have a, you know, runaway fund. But

two, if you are in a relationship, if you are not the person who is managing the money on the day-to-day, you better know every single detail about your finances. You have to be an active

finances. You have to be an active participant in your life. You need to know what you make both of you, what you have in terms of assets, what you owe in terms of debts, and also what you're

spending in terms of expenses. Because I

cannot tell you the number of DMs that I have gotten of the horror story is really I just found out my husband was cheating on me and I don't have any money and now I'm about to be left

destitute. But a more realistic DM that

destitute. But a more realistic DM that I get pretty frequently is, I had a wonderful, loving relationship of 45 years. My husband just passed away and I

years. My husband just passed away and I don't even know the password to my bank account.

Whether it's malicious or not, you have to know what your own money is because most women, we die alone. We outlive our partners and at some point you will have to manage your own money. You better

start now.

There's something that I um that I've read about you when you actually and and just thinking about money and being in partnership. You said that your husband

partnership. You said that your husband was the single best financial decision you'd ever made.

Best.

How so? Listen, I don't think that you need to find a partner that is totally debtree or the richest man on earth or richest partner on earth, whatever.

Me neither, by the way.

But you do need to find someone who values the dollar the same way you do.

Who is your biggest cheerleader and cannot be your competitor.

Life is hard. Life is super hard. I'm

not about to go home and live with a hater at home. Like,

damn, why? I want someone when I go home, they tell me the sun shines out of my butt. Like they think I can do no

my butt. Like they think I can do no wrong. They are my fiercest advocate

wrong. They are my fiercest advocate because when you have a conscientious partner, you on average actually make 4% more each year. And I can't tell you how

many moments throughout my life and my career if my husband had not been there and at the po at that time he was like some random strange boyfriend that I had, you know, barely met. There are so

many moments that he encouraged me to do the scary thing. And that scary thing was go from JP Morgan to Buzzfeed. That

scary thing was to quit my really good job, my $625,000 a year job to take your rich BFF full time. The the scary thing was to hire agents, hire lawyers, get a

publicist. The scary thing was to start

publicist. The scary thing was to start my own venture. And every time he always says something silly, but he goes, "Do [snorts] you think that we're going to starve on my salary?" And he makes great

money. So I'm like, "Well, no." And he's

money. So I'm like, "Well, no." And he's like, "Then what are you so worried about? Take a swing." And I get to play

about? Take a swing." And I get to play big ball because I'm not afraid that if I fall, he's going to catch me.

Oh, I love that so much. I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about investing because once people Yeah.

[laughter] It's such a difficult thing to even start to think about because people imagine that you need a lot more um than just, you know, a great job and a good salary and a little bit of

savings to start investing. And so for somebody that's just really starting out and just about to, you know, dip their fingers into investing, where do you recommend people should start?

Get a robo advisor. So simple. Um what

people do is they're like, uh, like I have to pick my own investments. I have

to pick the right account. It takes them years to do it and now you're 15 years behind.

Get a robo today. Literally just Google best robo 2026. You will find multiple lists that have a bunch of them. Go into

them, compare the fees, compare the platforms, see what you like the best.

I'm not going to sit here and even name any names. You pick what's right for

any names. You pick what's right for you. Then you're going to take a quick

you. Then you're going to take a quick quiz.

But then again, this is about learning, right? familiarizing yourself with the

right? familiarizing yourself with the concept, understanding what a robo advisor is, going on, doing the work, doing some research, you have to research, you have to like do it. Yeah.

Ain't nothing to it but to do it.

Sometimes you just got to like get past and like go cuz you know what? Doing it 80% good is better than not doing it at all.

Totally.

80% is great.

And you'll get better at it. like

everything else you were doing. If you

were asking for pay rises one way in the 20s, damn sure when you get to your 30s, you've got a slightly better system for it and a better way of negotiating. So,

it's like you're going to get better.

Okay, so you get a robo advisor. So, you get a robo adviser.

advisor. So, you get a robo adviser.

You're going to take this quick quiz.

It's going to ask you things like what tax jurisdiction you live in, aka where do you live? Uh do you have a family?

When do you plan on retiring? How much

do you make? How much do you have? Do

you have debt? You answer all these questions. It goes and then it spits out

questions. It goes and then it spits out a portfolio that is tailored to your risk tolerance.

Your risk tolerance is higher when you're younger, like lower when you're older. Your risk tolerance is higher if

older. Your risk tolerance is higher if you make more money and lower if you make less. All of these levers will

make less. All of these levers will change, but you will get a portfolio that makes sense for you and you get you get to be invested in 45 minutes. 45 minutes time.

And the best thing they will send you that quiz every year, every two years to then reup because things might change.

You might find a partner, you might have children, you might move. Um, and your investment should change with your life too.

What do you recommend um that people get started with? Like what do you think as

started with? Like what do you think as a percentage of somebody's salary? How

are you looking at that?

Yeah, I would say that if you follow the 5030 20 budgeting strategy, 50% of your after tax take-home pay is on needs. So

that's housing, groceries, basic transportation. 30% is wants. See, I

transportation. 30% is wants. See, I

allocated a lot of money for wants. You

get to have fun. You get to go get your nails done. You get to go see your

nails done. You get to go see your friends. You get to go on vacation. You

friends. You get to go on vacation. You

get to go to the concert. 20% is

focusing on taking care of future you.

So that includes saving, debt payown, and investing. The reason why I don't

and investing. The reason why I don't earmark a certain number for investing is because if you have high interest rate debt, like credit card debt, you got to get ready.

That needs to go first.

You already said that. That was in the foundations.

That was in the foundation. So, not

everyone should be investing. If you

don't have that paid down, you can't invest. If you don't have money that you

invest. If you don't have money that you can lock up for at least a decade, don't invest. But once you do have those

invest. But once you do have those things, it should be a portion of that.

And then over time, as you make more money, my hope is that the 50 and 30 parts of your budget actually become smaller and smaller percentages while that 20 gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

And how do you think about property?

because I feel like so many of us grow up with this idea that every penny that we're going to make has to just get down, you know, go for a down payment on a house.

Okay, so this is such a contentious topic.

She's like, exhale.

Rent versus buy. Everyone's like, "So, if you're renting, are you a loser?" No.

No. Definitely not. No.

No. Definitely not. But also, it's it's the facts. Right now, it is cheaper to

the facts. Right now, it is cheaper to rent than buy in all American major cities.

Yes. And in many other places, by the way, but buying a home for many still feels like the American dream. But I encourage people to get really creative. So maybe

it's we don't buy our primary residence, but we buy an investment property and then we rent in our major city that we live in. That's a way to get into the

live in. That's a way to get into the real estate game. Maybe instead of buying a singular property that only gives you access to one geography, you buy a REIT, a real estate investment trust. It kind of works the same way as

trust. It kind of works the same way as a stock does or an ETF does, but you get to just buy it on a very liquid market.

And now you have real estate exposure.

Or even for the folks who are like, "Okay, but I still really want to buy a property for me." Have you thought about an FHA loan? Have you thought about a conventional 97? If you're in in a rural

conventional 97? If you're in in a rural area, a USDA loan? There are so many different creative ways that if home ownership is important to you, you can still be a homeowner, but you don't need

to be a homeowner to be financially literate or to be financially successful.

And how do you figure out what one of those is right for you? What do you recommend?

Girl, we talked about this already. You

have to do the research. So, you know, FHA loans are better for people who have lower credit scores and really need a little leg up for their first place.

Conventional 97s reward you for having an incredibly high credit score. Um,

USDA loans only apply to certain rural areas. Um, but you just have to think

areas. Um, but you just have to think about what makes sense for you. And if

you live in an area where there are other people that you know who are homeowners, ask them what they did.

Something that we did when we were actually buying our home was we hit up all of our mentors. So, my husband hit up his, I hit up mine, and we said, "Who did your mortgage? Who actually

originated yours?" And we were discussing with four different banks.

And we pit them against each other. And

we said, "We are ready to sign as soon as you are ready to bend to our will."

And [laughter] when one, you know, one team gave us a really great offer, but if I'm honest, I was a little nervous about their ability to close on time. I turned right back around and I threw it in another, you

know, mortgage loan officer's face. And

I said, "Well, this place is offering me this, and I'm literally about to go do this. You want my business? Yes or no?"

this. You want my business? Yes or no?"

And he said, "Tell me what you need. I

will match the terms, and we will get it done." I want to go back into this

done." I want to go back into this investment conversation because I feel like so many people that I know are dying to start investing and to, you know, put their best foot forward and it

feels like an intimidating thing. For

those that feel that, you know, the stock market really isn't for them, what are some other ways that women can get into investing? If you're just like,

into investing? If you're just like, "This feels uncomfortable and it's not for me and I'm never going to understand it." What do you suggest?

it." What do you suggest?

While I do want to answer that question, I would also challenge that person and ask them why. Because the stock market more often than not is one of the easiest ways to build your wealth. It

allows your money to stay really liquid.

You can get that cash back whenever you need it. Really? Like, why are you so

need it. Really? Like, why are you so afraid? Is it because you feel like you

afraid? Is it because you feel like you like to be able to see your money or hold your money? Well, guess what? Not

investing is actually scarier than investing. I'm so glad you've answered

investing. I'm so glad you've answered it this way, by the way.

Because if you aren't investing, the cost of living, inflation, it's eating away at your dollars. You put $100 under your mattress, that $100 is worth less next year than it is now.

So much less.

But if you invest, it actually might be worth more. And so, I would just say

worth more. And so, I would just say one, please do invest in the stock market, but two, you can look at a bunch of other things. Um, people love to

invest in art, in collectibles, in wine, but for more alternative investments, my big line is this. It is only worth what

someone else is willing to pay. And so

if the market tanks and the all the rich people are starting to hold on to their dollars, your rare Pokemon card, your beanie baby, your special bottle of wine, it's just not going to be worth as much and you're going to have a harder

time selling it and you'll pay higher fees to sell it. Yeah.

So for me, stock market's the winner.

So how do you balance the the kind of flexibility and the discipline when it comes to long-term investing?

You know, I would say it's all about delayed gratification. It's kind of like

delayed gratification. It's kind of like when you paint your nails and then you're like, I have to go to the bathroom. You're going to have to hold

bathroom. You're going to have to hold it, baby. You're [laughter] going to

it, baby. You're [laughter] going to have to wait. Um because you want to have a really good time today. And it is so fun to see your investments make you a gazillion dollars overnight. Yeah.

But that's realistically not going to happen. [snorts] And if it does, there's

happen. [snorts] And if it does, there's a really big chance that it might make you negative gazillion dollars tomorrow.

I think it's all about waiting. Having a

lot of money doesn't help you make more money. Having a lot of time helps you

money. Having a lot of time helps you make a ton of money because of how the math works. Compound interest is most

math works. Compound interest is most effective the longer you have something in play. So if you start investing a

in play. So if you start investing a teenytiny sum of money in your early 20s, you're probably going to be better off than if you invest a chunky amount of money in your 40s or 50s. I'm not

saying if you're starting late you can't make it happen, but it will be harder.

So start early and often. Invest as much as you can. So one of the things I want to talk to you about is like manag this idea of managing work in the managing wealth in the workplace. Why do benefits

in the workplace play such an outsized role when you start to think about how much money people are leaving on the table without even realizing it?

Yeah. So benefits are so important because many of them are now replacing something called a pension. M so back in

the day um the onus of retirement like the saving for your retirement was your boss's job was your company's job and the longer you worked somewhere the bigger your pension would be and they

would pay you more and more money in your retirement. So if you worked

your retirement. So if you worked somewhere for 40 years maybe you didn't make a lot of money maybe you didn't get a lot of raises or promotions but that fat pension check every single year of your retirement was worth it because you

[clears throat] knew you were taken care of scotfree. problem was pensions were

of scotfree. problem was pensions were really really terrible because they were really bad for the employer. The

employer was on the hook for a certain amount of money no matter whether they made the right investment choices, no matter if they remembered to set aside the right amount of money for you. Now

they were like, you know what, we have a genius idea. We are going to replace

genius idea. We are going to replace this with something much much worse but kind of still the same called the 401k.

And the 401k now puts the responsibility of saving for your retirement on you, the employee. Now you have to take your

the employee. Now you have to take your own money out of your own paycheck, put it into the market. You have to invest it. Maybe some employers do offer a

it. Maybe some employers do offer a match. So they'll match you dollar for

match. So they'll match you dollar for dollar up to a certain point. And that's

great. That's free money. Only case in finance that's free money and not a scam, right?

But it's now your responsibility. And

people never know what to do when it comes to actually thinking about their retirement, their health benefits, their stock option plans. Maybe their company even offers like mental wellness checks,

things like that. There is something at your company called a prospectus. You

are going to go to HR and you're going to ask for, hey, can I see the prospectuses on the investments available in my 401k? Can I see the benefits outlined? There's probably like

benefits outlined? There's probably like a handbook, a manual. It's going to be dense. It's going to be kind of annoying

dense. It's going to be kind of annoying to read, but if you read it and you actually digest it, you will have so much more visibility into all of the things that your company does for you. I

know a girlfriend who didn't even realize her company offered fertility benefits. She saved $30,000

benefits. She saved $30,000 because her company covered her egg freezing and an IVF journey for her and her husband. And can you imagine if your

her husband. And can you imagine if your boss said, "Hey, I'm going to give you a $30,000 raise. You want that?" Of course

$30,000 raise. You want that?" Of course you'd say yes. That's $30,000 right now.

That's $30,000 that you'd have just left on the table. What should people understand before they even touch their 401k?

That when you put cash in, it doesn't mean you're invested. This is the biggest mistake I see. People will open up these investment accounts, their 401k, their IRA, their Roth IRA. They

put a bunch of money in, they're like, "I'm good, baby." No, you're not. You're

not even close to good. Okay? That money

is sitting in cash. All you have done is taken cash and put it in an envelope.

You now have to take the cash in that envelope and go buy stuff. So that's

that target date retirement funds, index funds, sector funds, whatever you want, but you have to actually deploy that capital and if you don't, it'll sit in cash and it's the exact same as leaving it in a checking account

which is just a disaster eaten away by inflation.

I wanted to ask you a couple of questions that actually came directly from the audience. Let me see if I can find these. [laughter]

find these. [laughter] I like this first one. Yeah. When do you hire a financial planner?

Ooh, okay. So, a financial planner, I would say as soon as it makes sense and you can afford it. But I want to make a really clear distinction. A financial

adviser and a financial planner are two very different people.

Please make that distinction for us.

So, a financial planner is literally someone who more often than not is either available to you for free or for a flat rate fee through your financial institution. They will walk through with

institution. They will walk through with you your current finances, things that need to change for you to hit your goals. I think everybody should talk to

goals. I think everybody should talk to a financial planner in particular.

Everyone, especially if you get one free. Yes, absolutely.

free. Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

But a financial adviser, they're a money manager. They charge you a percentage of the assets under their management. So that's anywhere between a

management. So that's anywhere between a percent to 1.25%.

Over the course of your lifetime, that could be six to seven figures. Are you

cool giving someone else six to seven figures over the course of your lifetime? The only people that I think

lifetime? The only people that I think really need financial adviserss are people whose financial situations are very complex. So there's two different

very complex. So there's two different scenarios. If you are a high-powered

scenarios. If you are a high-powered attorney, you make $650,000 a year. You

actually have a really simple financial picture because you get paid one way.

It's a W2 job and you just make a lot of money. You can probably manage your own

money. You can probably manage your own money. But say you are a touring

money. But say you are a touring musician. You sell merch. You sell

musician. You sell merch. You sell

albums. You you get money from streaming. You tour. So, you have to

streaming. You tour. So, you have to actually make money from ticket sales.

You're getting money every which way.

You're probably making that money in a bunch of different cities and maybe even different countries. That is a very

different countries. That is a very complicated financial situation.

Absolutely. And listen, I feel like so many people have that type of setup.

Now, if you think about all of the creators, influencers, they're getting endorsement money. They're getting I

endorsement money. They're getting I mean, Exactly. It's like nobody is

mean, Exactly. It's like nobody is getting their money in the most straightforward ways. And you probably

straightforward ways. And you probably need somebody to come and help you with that. You can be really astute and you

that. You can be really astute and you can be really smart, but you're not going to understand the implications from like a million different territories. It's like you need somebody

territories. It's like you need somebody else to come and have that cut through from you. This question I absolutely

from you. This question I absolutely love.

How to start building wealth in your 40s when everyone's talking about starting early. We've spoken a lot about starting

early. We've spoken a lot about starting early today, but of course there's no no time is too late. Please tell us that no time is too late. It's going to be harder though. So, I want us to play

harder though. So, I want us to play catch-up both literally, but also mentally. You're going to need to put a

mentally. You're going to need to put a bigger percentage of your paycheck away into your retirement savings, into your investment.

So, you're saying that we should get rid of that 50 30 rule.

You got to do more and switch it up a bit more.

I'm asking you to cut down on the wants cuz I don't want to ask people to cut down on needs. You need those, right?

But cut down on those wants.

Well, maybe re reevaluate the needs.

Reevaluate. Yeah.

Cuz by 40, you might have switched some things into needs that aren't really needs. Yeah, getting Botox not a need

needs. Yeah, getting Botox not a need even though even though I think it is.

It's just a want actually.

It is a want but things like that like make sure that you are doing more than what you would have had to do in your 20s. But also the tax code allows you to

20s. But also the tax code allows you to literally catch up. People who are over 50 and between their retirement age and 50 actually can put more dollars into their retirement accounts than everybody

else. So you can literally catch up with

else. So you can literally catch up with your dollars.

How can you work hard, produce more, and not give it all away to taxes?

Okay. So, you know, there's there's the really simple stuff of contributing to your retirement that is always going to help give you a tax advantage of some

sort. It's also by playing by the

sort. It's also by playing by the government's rules. So, maybe it's, you

government's rules. So, maybe it's, you know, you move into a city in a state that has no state income tax. Think

about that. There are different things that you can do, especially if you are a business owner, that makes it really easy to write off parts of your expenses. Absolutely.

expenses. Absolutely.

I think that is a real win for people who are 1099, who are their own business owners versus W2 employees. Talking to a really good accountant and making sure that they are being creative. Yes.

I want you to have a creative accountant. Yeah.

accountant. Yeah.

And that is how you're going to be able to get this down. There's a question here saying when um how much does I think they might be English. How much to

pay oneself as an entrepreneur?

Yeah. Um I think there's like a bunch of different schools of thought of this, but here's mine. You need to pay yourself a healthy salary, one where you can comfortably live your personal life.

Because if I see a CEO who pays themsself so little that they are driving a car that can barely get them from point A to point B, that they are eating the peanut butter jellies and not

taking care of their body, it makes me worried about the health of their company as well. I

I couldn't agree more.

You have to take care of you first before you can, you know, oxy your own oxygen mask first and then the business's oxygen mask. But I encourage people to pay themselves as much as

possible without hurting the business, but also as little as possible to get them the life that they want.

All right, one more of these because I think they're so helpful. How do you plan and run your own business and your own income when your income is inconsistent?

Financial forecasting when you are feast or famine is 10 times even more important than if you are a traditional W2 employee.

When you are a W2 employee, you can typically budget monthtomonth. Yeah. But

when you are a freelancer and you have these high and low periods of income, I need you to budget quarter by quarter or year by year. And that means when you have those really, really big feast

moments, you need to be setting more aside to act as buffer, when you have those famine and trough moments. Once

you actually start to have your business run for a number of years, you will start to notice patterns. As a small business owner myself, I have noticed that the spend in Q4 is unlike anything else.

Anything else, but Q1, where did all the money go? Help

me. Like, that is very literally what it looks like. But it happens every year.

looks like. But it happens every year.

And every single year after Q4, I'm like, I'm rich. And after Q1, I'm like, wait, are we doing okay? But now I know that. So, I save more of those Q4

that. So, I save more of those Q4 dollars and I make sure that I have enough to make payroll. I have enough to continue to run my business. I make sure that I can pay all of my vendors, all of

my team. And so, it's all about

my team. And so, it's all about planning, but for a longer time horizon.

Yeah. I mean, listen, you are an incredibly successful entrepreneur yourself. What is it that you wish you

yourself. What is it that you wish you knew that you'd love to pass on to other women or to other founders that is just the one piece of information you wish

you'd have had way more early on? Oo,

I would say to probably just take risks sooner and move faster. Uh, I pride myself now on being fast. I think I'm faster than most people. I don't think

I'm smarter, and frankly, I work really hard, but I don't know if I work harder than everybody, but I'm fast. So when I don't know what to do and I have a slew of decisions one through five, by the

time someone else has now gone through the analysis and belabored the decision, I've already gone through the first three and realized they don't work. So

now I'm on to four. And if four doesn't work, five is going to be it. I think

that we could all learn to be a little faster, be a little bit more decisive, move with speed and precision, but then don't be afraid to cut bait if it's not working.

Right? If you move fast, you can just do more things and you'll find out if something doesn't work sooner versus having this whole plan, this launch plan, and then it doesn't work, then it's a real failure because you've

wasted all that time. If you don't waste too much time, you can always pivot to something else.

How do you think about risk at this point in your career? Because I guess there's so much, you know, you're out here, you're giving people financial advice, you're building your own business, you're recently married and

and and going on that journey. How are

you thinking about risk at this point in your life?

I think right now I am very riskloving.

So there's people who are riskaverse and risk loving. I'm very riskloving because

risk loving. I'm very riskloving because I don't have any kids. I own a home but you know I can comfortably make those payments. I think I will become more and

payments. I think I will become more and more riskaverse as my life becomes more rooted when I have the kids and the pet and

maybe more people frankly on my payroll if I have to have a nanny to help with the kids if I have to have a personal assistant. Right now I hire for my

assistant. Right now I hire for my business but I handle all of my own miscellaneous life activities by myself.

Yes, as there are more people who depend on you, you have to move a little bit more carefully. But right now, I'll take

carefully. But right now, I'll take every risk. I'll try if if something's

every risk. I'll try if if something's crazy, I'll try anything once and twice if I like it. And so I just think right now is a really freeing time because I don't have too many responsibilities and I'm lucky I have a partner who also

makes a great living, makes a great income. So we take care of ourselves for

income. So we take care of ourselves for each other. We don't have to take care

each other. We don't have to take care of the other person.

I think that's fantastic advice. as you

start to step into, you know, potentially looking at children and and building a family, how are you equating that with the Vivian that has been, you know, leaning into risk and moving

really fast? How is that changing or

really fast? How is that changing or shaping your thinking? Now,

if I'm honest, I really do look up to you. I look up to a lot of women that

you. I look up to a lot of women that are doing, you know, something tangential to what I'm doing, but it all seems like an impossible balancing act.

The last time we sat down together was when I was actually interviewing you and you said something that was crazy to me that you were like, I never get to be in

two places at once.

And it's not fair to somebody at all times like either I am, you know, being selfish and thinking about my business or being selfish and thinking about my kids. And there's no right answer, but

kids. And there's no right answer, but you do have to pick and choose your battles. And it's always a sacrifice.

battles. And it's always a sacrifice.

And so I think I will have to unfortunately make harder decisions.

Something I'm working on is saying no to stuff.

Yeah.

Leaving the corporate world and becoming my own boss, I was very afraid to ever say no cuz it felt like I had this lightning in a bottle moment, my 15 minutes of fame. And if I ever said no

to any press opportunity or interview or brand partnership, it would never come back. And I would say, well, I guess

back. And I would say, well, I guess I've just lost out on that like opportunity. But what I've come to find

opportunity. But what I've come to find is that there's power in saying no. And

when I say no to the little thing that I didn't really want to do, it actually frees up that time for me to do something bigger and better. And

frankly, sometimes that bigger and better thing is just sit on my couch.

But like it it really is looking up to other people, seeing how you manage both your life and your work because I do love both things and I don't want to

have to give up anything, but I will.

I'm interested to think like because you're so long term and you've been thinking and in this world for a long time in the financial world for a long time. Do you sit here and go like I am

time. Do you sit here and go like I am planned through my 60s and my 70s and my 80s? I know we've spoken a little bit

80s? I know we've spoken a little bit about retirement today but how far do you go with that?

You know I think I try to go really far out but it is ever changing. You know,

five years ago, your rich BFF didn't exist. Isn't that crazy? Which is crazy.

exist. Isn't that crazy? Which is crazy.

We actually met with a financial planner, I want to say like eight years ago. My my now husband and I, we sat

ago. My my now husband and I, we sat down and we were like, "Okay, this is great." Like, if Vivian can continue to

great." Like, if Vivian can continue to make, you know, a salary like this and I can continue in my career, like this is what it'll look like. What a joke. Like,

can I look back on those documents and be like, "Wow, none of this actually makes any sense." Two years after that, I started your rich BFF. I started

making really great money that was supplemental to my Buzzfeed career, which also really took off at that time.

So, I was like, "Oh my gosh." Like,

"Haha, look at that financial plan. How

crazy." 3 years later, I'm in the midst of your HBF. Everything is growing. It's

my full-time job. I look back at that financial plan. I'm like, "Oh, what a

financial plan. I'm like, "Oh, what a joke." Last year, I spoke with the New

joke." Last year, I spoke with the New York Times. I made $7 million in my

York Times. I made $7 million in my business as an individual person.

Thank you for telling me the number, by the way.

Yeah, of course. I have to.

No, you don't. You actually don't have to and most people don't. But I

[laughter] love but I love that you do because if you didn't it'd be really freaky.

But like that's crazy. And for me to say my business made $7 million last year and two years before that I didn't have any idea that I was going to ever be

able to do that. Like I think it is not a wasted exercise but it is one that doesn't necessarily take into account the fact that I'm currently on a rocket

ship. So, I try to do a financial

ship. So, I try to do a financial planning meeting every single year. I

try to extrapolate for the next 40 years of my life. But right now, everything is up in the air and that's why I get to do all of these cool things. But maybe at some point, my life will stabilize and

then I'll have a better picture of what my 60s and 70s and 80s looks like. But

for now, I'm riding the wave. What would

you say to any woman that is listening right now that is in a comfortable situation like you were at BuzzFeed, but is thinking that there's more

somehow that has that, you know, itch and that thought and that dream and they're aspiring.

What do you want to say to those people that are looking at you and thinking, I'd love to have a year in my future where I make 7 million bucks? Yeah, I

think mediocrity is a drug that really clouds your judgment. I spoke with a NYU professor.

judgment. I spoke with a NYU professor.

She's this lauded author, Susie Welch.

And she I love Susie. She's like genius.

The best.

So Susie says that a B+ life is the most dangerous thing because if you have a C minus life and your life sucks, like you're really incentivized to change it. If you have an A+ life, your life is amazing and

you're really incentivized to keep it.

But B+ you can tread forever and you can have a mediocre life for a really long time and then you'll look back and be like this isn't what we promised

ourselves. And so for someone who has a

ourselves. And so for someone who has a decent life, a really stable setup, I just say don't be afraid to take the risk. When I was thinking about taking

risk. When I was thinking about taking your HBF full-time, I asked myself a question and it was when I'm 50 years old, you know, at the time I was 25ish.

I was like, 25 years from now, I've lived another entire lifetime, am I going to regret not giving this a try?

And I had something and I was like, yeah, I will regret it. I don't want to ask myself, what if? Do not give up on the best opportunities of your life because of fear. Don't be afraid to take

the risk. That is really really great

the risk. That is really really great advice. What's next for your rich BFF?

advice. What's next for your rich BFF?

Yeah, thank you so much.

I know whatever you're happy to share.

Thank you so much for asking. Um I'd

love to share with all [snorts] of the folks who are watching or listening.

New book.

New book. Wellendowed. Um cheeky title.

Always have to.

I mean, you have to have a You're called the rich BFF. I mean, I feel like you have to Oh, it looks like you've got some really amazing people that are, you know, talking about your book here. It's

so funny because Emma actually blurbed my book. So, she's on the back cover.

my book. So, she's on the back cover.

And you know, it talks about literally building your own endowment. If we if we take away the crash joke, what being wellendowed is talking about an endowment. An endowment is a pile of

endowment. An endowment is a pile of money that helps you invest and grow and so that your mission can be continued into the future. And that is what I want for every single person. I want you to

be able to talk to money with the people in your life, make those big decisions like homes and cars. I want you to have the retirement you deserve and still be able to leave something behind through

estate planning and smart trust and will set up so that the people you care about most are taken care of.

I mean, end of Isn't that what we all want?

You have I mean, this book is fantastic.

I blurbed it cuz I read it and I loved it and I found it massively massively valuable. I'm really proud of you.

valuable. I'm really proud of you.

you're going to have another another bestselling [laughter] book just you know just they're all coming out of everywhere. Good for you. My last

everywhere. Good for you. My last

question for you my love. What are you currently aspiring to?

I am trying to take a page out of your book and go from just being a creator to being a founder. Um I recently built a app. It's called Ask Dolly. You can

app. It's called Ask Dolly. You can

check it out at askdally.com.

And essentially what it does is it is going to be your financial companion in your pocket. People have sent me

your pocket. People have sent me thousands of DMs. And my greatest sadness is that I can't answer every single one. I literally wouldn't be able

single one. I literally wouldn't be able to get my job done. But with this, you can ask Dolly any question you want and get that financial knowledge on demand.

So, we can answer all those questions.

You can learn that jargon. This is not chat GPT. We are a registered investment

chat GPT. We are a registered investment adviser with the SEC. So, this is good.

And then if you ask a really personalized question, we actually do connect you with a certified financial planner so you can get legitimate financial advice that is tailored to you. We also break down headlines.

you. We also break down headlines.

There's, you know, proprietary content that I'm only putting on Ask Dolly. And

there is a wealth breakdown. So, we do a health check the same way you go and get your physical. This app is going to go

your physical. This app is going to go through all of your accounts and say, "Hey, Emma, you're doing a really, really great job with debt payown, but uh we need to beef up that emergency fund." and it'll give you advice on how

fund." and it'll give you advice on how to improve your finances until you are holistically well.

I love it. I mean, honestly, I'm so happy for you. Every time I speak to you, I get something and I feel like you're just one of those people that I constantly recommend. I'm like, listen

constantly recommend. I'm like, listen to this girl cuz she's just going to open certain parts of your brain and make you think about things that you're perhaps not. And so much of this is

perhaps not. And so much of this is about access. I talk all the time and I

about access. I talk all the time and I say, you know, it isn't small at the top, it's minuscule. And what I mean by that is there's so much incredible information that goes around and all we

need is access to it. And I think that with what you're doing every day, you are giving us access to information.

You're making us question the most important things. And I really give you

important things. And I really give you like huge kudos, hu huge credit for the app, for the book, for everything that you do. And I mean, you're a business.

you do. And I mean, you're a business.

Thank you.

Thank you for your friendship. I feel

like, you know, it's amazing to feel like throughout my entire lifetime, the greatest things that have ever happened to me have been because my mentors cared about me and people in my life were willing to take a swing and believe in

me. And I'm so grateful that you've been

me. And I'm so grateful that you've been a part of that.

Oh, I love you for that. What heaven, so good to speak to you, my darling. Thank

you [clears throat] so much.

Thank you.

So, before we wrap, I want to leave you with this. When you understand your

with this. When you understand your money, you move with more confidence.

you make clearer decisions and you're able to choose opportunities from a place of intention instead of from a place of fear. Building wealth is a skill and like negotiation or

leadership, it compounds over time. The

earlier you start, the more optionality you create for yourself. In the next episode of our career girls guide, we're going to continue to build on this foundation with another practical

conversation that's designed to help you move through your career with clarity and with confidence. Thanks for joining me on the Aspire podcast. [music]

For more strategies on how to build the life of your dreams, be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel.

Heat. Hey, Heat.

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