The Money Tips You NEED in Your 20s & 30s (We WISH We Knew These Tips)

Today we're talking about personal finance. If you're a woman with a bank

finance. If you're a woman with a bank account, listen up. A McKenzie study recently said that women lose over half a million dollars during their course of their career. And this can happen

their career. And this can happen silently. And this is money that slips

silently. And this is money that slips through the cracks without you ever seeing it through three mechanisms. We call them delay, doubt, and default. And

today, we're going to address all of them one by one. And of course, we're going to have examples, case studies, and tools that you can use just like we did at Harvard Business School. This

personal finance episode is helpful for everyone, especially women. Let's get

started. I'm Sheree.

I'm Jean. And we're the Tiger Sisters.

We are your Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters. And we're a top 10 business podcast on Spotify where we talk about money, power, and love.

[Music] Yeah. So, I just wanted to speak

Yeah. So, I just wanted to speak directly to the listeners and say that the reason I wrote this episode, the reason we decided to do this episode is because it's the topic that is very rarely broached.

It's definitely not talked about enough.

And the reason we wanted to talk about this specifically in the context of women is because this conversation is just not being had amongst women and definitely not on a recurring basis. So

as your Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters, we felt like it was really important that we be the ones to drive this conversation forward. According to

a brand new Mckenzie study, American women end up forfeiting over half a million dollars because of what we call invisible wealth avoidance. That's

equity left on the table, raises we never asked for, and investments we waited too long to make. That's money

you never see. All because of delay, doubt, and default.

You like that? I came up with those three.

The 3Ds are pretty catchy. Easy to

remember.

So, the first one is delay, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's

basically procrastinating on making these high impact money moves. whether

it's opening up an investment account, asking for fair pay, or rolling over your 401k, for example. Okay, so let's bring some math into it because I think this will show you how dangerous this

actually is. So, if you look at Fideli's

actually is. So, if you look at Fideli's calculator, if you wait 10 years to invest $5,000 a year, this will cost you

almost half a million by the time you retire. And that's not just like a

retire. And that's not just like a latte, that's half a million dollars.

That is money that you can spend, you know, on a down payment on a house. More

than a down payment on a house. A lot.

Depends on the house, depending on where you live.

Yeah. But like half a million dollars is a lot of money. And if you kind of delay making these investments earlier on, like the power of compounding will come back to haunt you.

Mhm.

And I just want to double underline the power of compounding. We've talked about it before as it relates to personal habits, how that works, but I think it's especially apparent when you talk about

finances and especially investing. So,

for example, if you invest a dollar today, you will make interest on it.

Next week, you're making interest on the dollar plus the interest that you've gotten. So, the power of compounding is

gotten. So, the power of compounding is that you make money on the interest as well. And if you think about a lifetime

well. And if you think about a lifetime of that compounding, it's a lot of money left on the table.

Yeah. Yeah, and I think what people don't realize is that the power of compounding not only applies to like a savings account, for example, you're getting a straight interest rate, but it also applies for investments in the stock market. Okay, Sheree, please tell

stock market. Okay, Sheree, please tell us about the method that we've come up with to address delay. Automate whatever

you can and reward yourself for completing the task. An example of this is if you want to invest weekly, you don't have to go into your brokerage account and like press the buttons. You

can do it once, set it up so it happens on a weekly, monthly, whatever, recurring basis, so you don't have to think about it.

Yeah, I've done that. I also actually do it the opposite way around, which is that I by default move my money into my savings account and then I automatically

have the money transfer from my savings account to my checking account, which is where I pay my bills and stuff.

Why do you do that? So that way the money is default making interest in the savings account and I'm only taking it out when I need to pay the bills in the checking account. So that way I can keep

checking account. So that way I can keep the checking account lower and keep the savings account higher.

That's smart. I don't do that, but I probably should.

You never told me you did that. This was

not something you revealed to me.

Well, now I've revealed it to you and to everyone else.

Thanks a lot. But don't keep your checking account too low. I've also done that once.

I've never done that before. I I'm I'm just scared, you know.

Yeah, once I did that and then you had like a rush to like make sure that nothing bad happened. You didn't

have an overdraft fee or something.

I didn't have an over well, I didn't have an overdraft, but like probably like a million dollar loss anyway because I at the time had put in an order to buy 10 Bitcoin. This was back

when they were like 40 bucks each. And I

like was at the time managing my checkings account so on such a thin margin that the order bounced and then I just like never went in and put it in again. So that's 10 Bitcoin I'll never

again. So that's 10 Bitcoin I'll never see.

But had you automated it, it might have tried again in the week after.

Right. That's my pre-automation time. So

So that's my uh I'll add that to my lifetime of missed earnings.

Oh jeez. Yeah. Yeah.

600,000 plus a million dollars for me in Bitcoin. Yeah.

in Bitcoin. Yeah.

So, Sheree, what's a way that you would reward yourself once you've done something like this?

Well, I actually kind of reward myself before.

Okay.

What I do? Well, so what I like to do, she pre-wards herself.

Yeah, exactly. But, you know, if I have to do something that's kind of timeconuming and a little bit annoying, come on, let's be honest. It's a little bit annoying to do it, but you have to

do it. I like to like get myself like a

do it. I like to like get myself like a nice matcha or like a nice coffee.

I knew she was going to say that.

Yeah. Like I'll go to Phil's.

I knew she was going to say that.

I'll go to Phils and get a mint mojito.

Um and then I'm like I'm like, "Okay, I got this. Now I need to lock in." And

got this. Now I need to lock in." And

the caffeine helps me like lock in.

Oh my god, I'm obsessed with Phils.

We love Phils.

Just this week or last week, I introduced someone to Phils for the first time and I was like, I wish I could be you to like re to discover Phils for the first time. Mojito only.

Yes. Which is basically, for all of you guys who don't know, Phil's, it is a coffee shop. Um, I think I've only I

coffee shop. Um, I think I've only I don't know if it's on the east coast.

I've seen it on the west coast, like in many, many cities. I think it started in San Francisco.

It started in San Francisco. The first

one No, the first one was right next to where you lived.

Where did I live?

No.

Wait, no. The first one was in The Mission.

No, I think the first one was right next to where you live.

Someone fact check this. I'm like 90% sure I'm correct. It was in The Mission.

No.

And our favorite drink is this iced coffee that has mint leaves in it.

It's like actually real mint leaves muddled inside.

So, if you like a mint flavor, um I know it sounds weird in coffee, but it is so tasty.

It's incredible.

But that's kind of my reward, my like pre-reward. And you have to get it

pre-reward. And you have to get it Phil's way or at least one time get it Phil's way, which is sweet and creamy.

So, they make it sweet and creamy.

Okay. So now delay is addressed and we've come up with several options for rewards for yourself once you address it. But um next let's get into doubt. So

it. But um next let's get into doubt. So

Vanguard says that women are 29% more likely to say that they don't feel investment ready than men. Let's flip

that script and we'll get into doubt right after this quick break. Applying

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to apply? When to apply? How do you stand out? You're googling everything

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demand platform. They have over 25 hours of videos that take you step by step in the application process. All right, now back to our show. And we're back. Okay,

so doubt is basically self-limiting beliefs and the mindset that you are not good enough or that you can't do something. So, in this context, it looks

something. So, in this context, it looks like something like, "Money scares me.

Numbers scare me. I'm not ready for this. I'll fail if I try." Yeah. And I

this. I'll fail if I try." Yeah. And I

think this one is probably the most nefarious D of them all.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Because

I know some other nefarious D's.

Name them.

I won't. This is a family program.

This is the most nefarious D because it's your mindset. If you're doubting yourself, like you're just limiting what you can achieve. And I think this is also the hardest because like it's all kind of within you and your self-belief

to change this.

Yeah, it's quite insidious. And this is the one where like we're going to give you tools and methods, but it is something that you can be working on for

a lifetime to beat that nefarious D.

Yeah, true.

Beat that D.

Ew.

That was my joke. You didn't even get it. A Stanford GSB study shows that

it. A Stanford GSB study shows that women consistently underapply for stretch roles. Like they don't have

stretch roles. Like they don't have enough self-belief in themselves to think that they can get these roles and as a result they're not applying for these roles. They're not landing these

these roles. They're not landing these roles. They're not getting the

roles. They're not getting the promotion. They're not asking for it.

promotion. They're not asking for it.

And so they're forfeiting over half a million dollars in lifetime earnings.

Yeah. And like I had mentioned, a lot of this goes back to um psychology and like ingrained thought processes. So there's

actually this whole money story framework that um psychologists came up with that describe what sort of mindset you have. So the three main ones are

you have. So the three main ones are survival, victim, and creator. And

psychologists say that most of us toggle between these three stories. So for

survival, it's I just need to pay rent and make ends meet. For victim, it's like money controls me and the systems are rigged. And for creator, money is a

are rigged. And for creator, money is a tool that I deploy and I can control.

Yeah. And of these three, I think victim is the most insidious, like sneaky one because survival is obvious, right? Like

when you're in survival mode, you can't really do anything except try to make ends meet. So that's like very obvious

ends meet. So that's like very obvious and like easy to address. But victim

mode is more so like in your head because it means you technically have all of the resources to do what you need to do, but you're just not able to because you're like holding yourself

back because of your mindset.

Yeah. And an example of what victim story could look like is if you're like avoiding downloading a banking app or you're not looking at your budgeting.

You you're not making that budget. You

know how to do it, but you're deciding not to, maybe even subconsciously just because you're nervous and you're like avoiding it. M I've been there for sure.

avoiding it. M I've been there for sure.

I've been there. I've for sure been there.

Yeah.

I think it's interesting how you can toggle through these different stories at different points in your life.

Mhm.

And in different areas of your life as well. Like maybe I might have more of a

well. Like maybe I might have more of a survival mindset when it comes to one area versus a creator mindset for another. I would say like

another. I would say like rent and housing versus food and spending versus travel. So it really depends.

Mhm.

Yeah. Yeah. And I really like the sort of mantra of the creator mindset which is money is a tool I deploy.

So it's I like it because then it becomes like oh it's a tool that I use.

It's not something to be afraid of. It's

not this like boogeyman or this like huge mountain to climb. It's a tool that I deploy. It's a tool at my at my

I deploy. It's a tool at my at my disposal. I don't know. It's just I I'm

disposal. I don't know. It's just I I'm saying it multiple times because it's almost like something you need to say multiple times to really have the meaning sink in.

Yeah.

Um and so part of this mindset or like money story of being a creator is that you use the tool and then you celebrate your progress. You don't necessarily

your progress. You don't necessarily have to be perfect. Yeah, I think that's a really good call out because in that way the creator story is very empowering. like it's something that I

empowering. like it's something that I am choosing I'm electing into to do and make moves on.

Mhm. Okay. Should we tell everyone about the mini exercise we've come up with?

Yes. So, this mini exercise is interactive and we want you to write in the comments of this video wherever you're listening or watching on YouTube or Spotify or Apple if they do comments

on Apple. But we want you to tell us

on Apple. But we want you to tell us what story you're in now. And this is no shade, right? Like Gan and I have

shade, right? Like Gan and I have mentioned, we've been in the survival story, we've been in the victim story, and we've tried to break into the creator story, and we're trying to feel more comfortable there. But we go back

and forth in different parts of our lives. We want to invite you to tell us

lives. We want to invite you to tell us what story you're in now. And you can also break it down per category if you think, you know, it's not a monolithic story that you're in now. And the reason

for this is to feel less alone. Like, no

shade at all wherever you are. But you

might be surprised. There are more people than you realize, we realize that are also in the survival mode or the victim mode. And so you're not alone.

victim mode. And so you're not alone.

And let's all come together and work towards being creator mode.

Yeah. And like we've said before, like the first part of being able to improve yourself and do something about it is to acknowledge it.

Confront yourself.

Yeah. Confront yourself.

Yeah.

God damn it.

Confront yourself with us. You know,

we welcome you.

We welcome you to confront yourself.

Welcome. Okay. And then really quickly, Sheree, let's talk about um the tools or the methods that we have to break out of this entire doubt mindset. So, something

that's in your toolkit is role play. I'm

completely serious about this. This is

something we would do at Stanford GSP in like every single class to combat that nefarious D.

To combat that nefarious D.

And an example of this is a mock negotiation. If you need to negotiate

negotiation. If you need to negotiate your salary and you have something coming up, you should definitely roleplay that with a trusted adviser or a friend. Just going through the motions

a friend. Just going through the motions of seeing what you would say and how you would respond when someone else comes back to you or pushes back on your negotiation ask.

Role play is really important and I honestly don't feel like it's used enough because it helps you think through the scenario and anticipate questions that you might get. Mhm. At

school in one of our classes, we did roleplay every single class and there would be different scenarios. We would

role play firing an employee. We would

role play like difficult conversations.

It is definitely not used enough.

Yeah. I think it's really important because one of the most common reactions to um like a new or scary situation is

to freeze, right? And so a lot of times I think if you can role play, you can sort of get that like freezing reaction out of the way and you can like freeze when it's not high stakes when you're practicing with your friend or your

partner or whoever it is.

And then you can sort of go through that process of actually processing the freezing moment and then come up with a response so that when you do the actual negotiation, you don't freeze.

Yeah. You're allowed to stumble in the mock negotiation or stumble in the roleplay. That's the whole purpose for

roleplay. That's the whole purpose for it. It's not going to be pretty. So that

it. It's not going to be pretty. So that

when the real deal comes, you're ready for it. And

for it. And not only will you know what to say, but like you said, you'll know how you will feel.

Mhm.

That is really important.

Yeah, that's true.

So you've had like the training.

Yeah. It's almost like when you role play, you go through the entire event emotionally so that when you do the actual event like you're not surprised by whatever emotions come up.

True. Within yourself or reactions from the other people, right?

Yeah.

That's such a great point. I mean, when we would do role plays in class, we would often do it multiple times cuz other student like student one would do it and then student two would do it. And

the negotiation or the role play could go several ways, right? Like you would do it with

right? Like you would do it with different partners.

Not only different partners, but you can have, let's say, if you're firing someone, the first person, first time you do it, the person is really sad, the second time they're really mad. So then

you can like anticipate all the different scenarios that could come up.

Yeah. And like see how you feel about it. Exactly. Okay. So, now we've moved

it. Exactly. Okay. So, now we've moved from victim or survival into your creator story. Amazing. But even the

creator story. Amazing. But even the most confident person can still wreck their finances if they're just staying on autopilot.

Remember automation. I think that was a really good idea, but definitely with an asterisk here, making sure you check the automation every now and then.

Exactly. So, confidence without intentions lands us in the last money trap, which is default. So default is when exactly what it sounds like when you put things on default. So whether

that's having the 0% 401 contribution, 0.01% um interest rate because you're putting it in the money market or sure, I'll take that first salary offer. These are

all very once again nefarious things that are related to this third D.

Exactly. This is just the stuff that you don't question because you're on cruise control. Quick pause, Tiger fam. This is

control. Quick pause, Tiger fam. This is

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Sisters. Now, back to the show. And

we're back. Okay, so now talking about this last D, which is default. This is

letting someone else choose, whether it's taking that first offer, putting the 0% contribution just cuz that's how it's set up, or leaving your money in the 0.01% savings account. And this is

something that we really want to emphasize because it is shown through studies that women are more likely to do this than men. So UBS did a study that showed that women hold 71% of their

assets in cash versus men hold 60% of their assets in cash. So over the course of time and through all the women that are doing this, that's hundreds of millions of dollars loss in growth.

Yeah. Default is going through with an option because that's how it was set up.

And I think it's dangerous because sometimes I assume that things are set up in my favor when they're really not.

Like that's my very like naive way of going about life where I'm just like, yeah, like it's all going to work out because everything's going to, you know, help me.

Yeah. It's like, would you marry the first person you ever had a crush on?

How is that related?

Because that's the default.

You mean beep beep in kindergarten?

Yeah.

How would that have turned out?

I don't know if he's interested in women.

Oh, okay. True.

So, not well for you. Not well for you.

Actually, I told my therapist recently about my first crush in kindergarten.

And this person was my first crush because he ran the fastest.

And then my therapist was like, "That's so you to have the crush on someone who did something really well."

Oh, it's not because he could like run away from you really fast.

No, he did the fastest lap. Oh, I

thought it was because like he, you know, made it like hard to chase him.

No, no, no. He did the fastest lap around the gym of all the boys.

That's hot, right?

Yeah.

My therapist was like, "That is so you to be into that or to prioritize that."

Was he also the best singer?

I'm not sure why.

I don't know. That's what like kids like right?

Those are attributes that are showcased in kindergarten. Okay. So speaking of

in kindergarten. Okay. So speaking of sharing, let's talk about the method that we've come up with to combat this D. So the tool that we have is called

D. So the tool that we have is called wealth circles. And this is something we

wealth circles. And this is something we urge you to implement today. I have a lot of guy friends and for some reason they talk about wealth and money and finances so freely. And they just have

group chats to just talk about these things and they'll like talk about, you know, what they're investing in, how much they're making. It's a very common like topic discussion

and I feel like it's kind of unfair that one there are no women in these chats.

That's a problem. And two, I think women just don't talk about it as much. So our

tool for you is to create a wealth circle with four or five of your closest girlfriends who you feel comfortable talking about this with. It helps with

social accountability and it helps with information sharing. And as Jean often

information sharing. And as Jean often says, information is power.

Yeah. Is that my like catchphrase?

It kind of is. It really is though.

Yeah. And there's actually also a lot of research behind this. So the National Bureau of Economic Research has shown that social accountability actually increases savings by 45% versus a

control group. Do you guys like these

control group. Do you guys like these stats? Like I personally I like having

stats? Like I personally I like having stats and that's why when I write these episodes I put them in because they're well researched.

Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah.

Um because it shows you that the ideas that we're recommending and these methods we've come up with are based on science. Okay. And then just one more

science. Okay. And then just one more quick detail about this study is that the mechanism they identified that leads to the increased rate of savings is descriptive social norm plus mild

competition. So what does that mean? It

competition. So what does that mean? It

means that when people are sharing about what they're doing and their sort of like money practices, that's creating a descriptive social norm amongst the group and then also the fact that they're sharing and they're seeing each

other's numbers creates this level of mild competition which then you want to improve yourself so that you can meet this social norm.

Yeah. And I unknowingly created a wealth circle in my first job, right, out of school because I was in a program of associate product managers and our

base salary that everyone got supposedly was the same when all of us joined. But

then as you go into a year or two years later, things start to change. People

have different projects, different bosses, different comp structures. And

when we were all, you know, we got promoted at the same time because we are part of the same group. But when that happened, we started talking about our salary more. Like one or two people

salary more. Like one or two people started talking about it and realizing there was a pretty big disparity in how much we were earning in our bonus, in

our um stock compensation. And then so my friend Logan created a spreadsheet.

Bless that man. He's so good. He's so

good. I He's so competent and so open and willing to share and we love people like that. He created a spreadsheet and

like that. He created a spreadsheet and urged everyone in my cohort to fill it out. And I think most people did. I

out. And I think most people did. I

think everyone did fill it out so we could know, you know, on the first possible time that we got um a comp refresher what everyone else got. And

then when I saw those numbers, I realized I was being underpaid.

Oh.

Compared to other people on other teams. Yeah.

And I did bring it up with my boss. I

was like, this is weird. And then when we all got promoted, I think everyone got a huge bump and it was more um evenly distributed.

Collective bargaining.

Yes, we unionized against LinkedIn. And

I don't think our boss is like that.

We're like 25 and we're like we should be paid more.

You beat the system.

Yes, we did.

Yeah.

Through your wealth circle. It actually

was crazy because I was going to get I think like like 50% less or 50 to 60% less in stock refresher until I brought it up to my boss and then he brought it

up to you know the senior leaders who then gave people more money.

Like my boss was advocating for me but he also didn't have the information supposedly to advocate for me and when I gave it to him he did. When you look back on it, the person that set the standard that was getting the highest

amount of refresher, do you think it was because they had the most um sort of like aggressive and outspoken outspoken manager?

I think they both I both I think the person and their manager are very aggressive in a good way.

Like self- advocating, self- advocating. Um, and they worked in

self- advocating. Um, and they worked in an org where they had more money to give.

Honestly, their business line was very successful ads.

Yes.

As someone who ran AR ads, they worked in monetization at LinkedIn.

Yeah.

And so I think they just had a bigger pie to distribute anyways.

And you were a call center.

No, no, she was distributing knowledge to people at LinkedIn Learning, our edtech platform.

Mhm. Different from ads. Different from

very different from ads.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Probably nicer to work in to be honest.

Likely.

And so for this wealth circle, this is a group of four to five trusted people.

And you want to establish ground rules.

Basically, confidentiality is a big thing. Whatever stays whatever is said

thing. Whatever stays whatever is said here stays here. You can set up like weekly or monthly topics to discuss. It

can the first week can be about rent.

The next week can be about like pay for work. the next week can be something

work. the next week can be something else, but it should just feel like more transparent and you guys have an open conversation about these topics. And

like I feel like people are into talking about this like in a private group because then it just feels like you have a space where you can finally like share all of your frustrations.

It's probably better in person, but if you can't do it in person, you could also do it virtually.

Yeah, I was thinking you could just do this over text message, too. So, Gen Z of you.

Thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode. Please remember to like,

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