The Occult, Kabbalah, the Antichrist’s Newest Manifestation, and How to Avoid the Mark of the Beast

I remember the first time somebody said to me during an interview that something or other was demonic. Used the word demonic. It cannot have been more than

demonic. It cannot have been more than six years ago and I was completely shocked that someone would use that term because it's not a political term. It

doesn't even describe like any human social interaction. It's a spiritual

social interaction. It's a spiritual term and I just was not used to people using spiritual terms to describe social movements or political developments or whatever. But I think in that time in

whatever. But I think in that time in the last six years things have really changed and I hear it all the time. It's

demonic. They're demons. There is this sense that there's a spiritual underpinning that there's something going on beneath the surface in American society and in the world that's

affecting outcomes and affecting populations and like there's a spiritual war in progress. You and I hope you'll explain this and I'll get out of the way

in a second, but you kind of stumbled into an extended research project on this topic. Are there actual occult

this topic. Are there actual occult connections to Hollywood, to political figures, to technological advances, to the leaders of our society? Are some of

them actually practicing a cult religion?

>> Yeah, Tucker, it's about as weird as you said. Some would say I think we're going

said. Some would say I think we're going to find out even weirder.

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]

So, how did you I mean, you're not a theologian that I'm aware of.

>> Um, no. And if I was, I was a very amateur theologian. No, I'm not not a

amateur theologian. No, I'm not not a scholar as many will find out about. But

but how did you wind up coming to the conclusion that you know the people who some of the people who help shape our culture or build our technology were practicing a cult literally practicing a

cult religion?

>> I'll tell you well you know I was working on a um television show, you know, trying to build out this show. I I

should back up. I I come from a Hollywood family, Tucker. Um uh my grandfather was the actor Robert Conrad.

If you've uh some of your listeners, Waw Wa West, Black Sheep Squadron, he go way back. Hawaiian Eye. Um, my other

back. Hawaiian Eye. Um, my other grandfather Harry Flynn was a publicist in the uh, you know, for decades on the Monkeys, Bewitched, I Dream of Genie.

Two Occoul shows, Bewitched and I Dream of Genie. Um, maybe it starts there. Um,

of Genie. Um, maybe it starts there. Um,

so um, I mean, not unlike your own father working in journalism as a boy, one of the first things you learn when you have parents who work in media or entertainment, you learn that things the

People magazine version of reality is not the truth. That there there is a difference.

>> That is true. That is accurate. Yes. So,

so I mean we're not getting into oultism yet, but we're getting into the fact that as a boy you learn that the way things are presented, not always conspiratorial, but you're always being shown a facade usually from the

mainstream I can't believe I'm saying mainstream media already a minute into this, but um you know things are are not what they seem. So as a boy um I was always told and shown that. So years

later um you know I through taken to Hollywood these um these various uh show concepts and one of them Tucker I was working on was about um when actors first break into the business you know where do they live how how do their

lives go it was a very wholesome show about the origins of actors and show business but it was getting >> yeah you come to LA from Nebraska what happens >> how does this work but that gets into a basic thing you probably had this as a boy yourself of wanting to know how does

thing how do things work you've seen the facade so what's the truth you know how how does any show work how are stars madely So, I was working on this show and you know, um, CO happened. Um,

Hollywood kept lighting itself on fire.

I I was I I sold it to, um, BuzzFeed and then, um, while they're drawing up the contract, uh, Buzzfeed went out of business.

>> So, it was it was a cursed volatile moment.

>> Yeah. It was it was a cursed show. The

Wholesome One was cursed. So, at some point in 2022, I'd always had a dream project of mine um just an a casual interest um of of doing a show about rock and the occult, about the secret

history of um all these things that everyone's people are generally interested in, but there's never been a kind of scholarly uh in-depth hearing from everybody, not too biased take on

of you know, Jimmy Paige being into Alistister Crowley, Alistister Crowley being on the Beatles albums, things that, you know, maybe we can dispel some myths, but also there's always interesting actual weird stuff going on.

>> Yeah.

>> So, I wanted to take that show out and it became kind of like >> not all of this is a figment of your imagination.

>> Oh, no, no, no. It it was not as as uh as I learned the uh I don't say the hard way, but no things. Yeah. So that that was the basis of it of me wanting to uh doing research for this this show which

was tentatively titled uh uh Running with the Devil. And I brought in a legendary rock critic Steven Thomas Earline from All Music, his uh colleague Ned Raget. Um and then the the creators

Ned Raget. Um and then the the creators of the Osbor, the recently departed Aussie Osborne, uh Sue Kolinsky and Craig Johnson. So I brought in legit

Craig Johnson. So I brought in legit people. I brought in some of the best

people. I brought in some of the best critics we have in rock to do a show that would, you know, we'd have um we'd have Christians and pastors. We'd have a cultist. One of my experts on the show

cultist. One of my experts on the show was this guy uh uh Mitch Horowitz, who I think you knew. I forget if it was at Salon or um >> former editor of mine. Yep.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Very nice guy.

>> Well, he's he's he was an uh he became an expert on the occult. Um I talked to him. Very nice guy. He's a I think he's

him. Very nice guy. He's a I think he's a self-described Satanist, you know.

>> That was after I knew him.

>> That was we had to clarify that, you know. Yeah. Uh but um but uh so so while

know. Yeah. Uh but um but uh so so while doing this show, it's all a long way to say while doing uh creating this show and taking it around town. Um, you know, I I'm, you know, another guy that was a big influence, Gary Lochman, this a cult

historian, a friend of mine. Uh, well,

doing this show and trying to get it created. Um, I would tell people I know

created. Um, I would tell people I know in tech cuz I know a lot of people in different circles. That's if I have one

different circles. That's if I have one superpower, it's I know a lot of different people and have a lot of strange hobbies and interests that kind of the ven diagram is very unique to me.

So, while creating this show, the people in tech and the people um some I know in Silicon Valley or politics, they go, "That's a great concept for a show." And

then they'd say, you know, the some of the stuff going on in Silicon Valley, you know, there there cult there are some weird kind of Alistister Crowley cults there or um you know, while researching um one of the guys we'll

talk about, Nick Land, uh you know, who's huge in Silicon Valley, his influences were identical with some of the hardcore industrial music, goth

music, psychedelic guys in the 80s, uh guys that I was re researching because this is hardcore occult stuff. So for

me, Tucker, at some point I was like, and it kept occurring to me, why when I'm researching this show and also hearing about what's going on in Silicon Valley with weird stuff, why is it why

am I hearing about the same stuff and why are these people again, you think of Silicon Valley and you think of the modern, you know, elite as being um secularists, rationalists, uh people who

have a, you know, no religion for me, thank you, attitude towards stuff. Why

are they into uh the same stuff that you know Kenneth Grant uh Genesis P or was into Brian Gis and William S. Burroughs?

Why are they into the same weird stuff?

So that was to answer your question that was the that was the entry point into this for me is having researched the show and being such a nerd about it. I

knew it forwards and backwards that when I started to get into the tech stuff I realized I was researching the same thing.

>> It's interesting. So here's the distinction that I make in my mind. Um,

and it's between people who are participating in occult practices and have no idea that they are, >> right?

>> You know, people who are, you know, participating in abortion and don't see it, don't understand it as what it is, which is a child sacrifice ritual as old as Canaan. Um, who are using hallucenic

as Canaan. Um, who are using hallucenic drugs, which are clearly a portal for demonic possession.

>> Sure.

>> Um, >> really, the word witchcraft, uh, in Greek it's pharmarmacai, I think it is.

So there's always a natural link between uh putting yourself they would say ecstatic states or altered states uh that's always been the uh the I mean there's a kind of lurid story behind the

witches broom in terms of what she's doing to work herself up into that state. But yeah, it's all about

state. But yeah, it's all about >> but she's doing it intentionally. I

guess that's the distinction that I would make in a secular country, a free to be you and me country. There are a lot of people who are doing things cuz they're fun or interesting or everyone around them is doing them and they don't

understand the spiritual consequences.

But then there's another category and this is this is the dividing line in my head. There's a category of people who

head. There's a category of people who are seeking power from supernatural forces that they acknowledge are absolutely real.

>> Right. Right.

>> And they are practicing an occult religion and they're doing it with self-awareness.

>> Right. Right. Right.

>> And I always felt like there weren't that many of those. But what I've learned from you from our extensive text exchanges over the past year is that um there are actually some of those quite a few of those.

>> Oh, but totally. I mean, look at it a couple ways. Among other things, Tucker,

couple ways. Among other things, Tucker, we're living through um uh an explosion in um I mean, a cult's a big broad term.

>> Yes.

>> Um what does it Can we define it?

>> I mean, it technically means the hidden, but um there's a book written by these guys that they ran a cult bookstore in New York in the 70s. It's called Bull from Heaven or something like that. But

one of their definitions it had to do with uh new age elements of new age philosophy and neopagan thinking I think was part of their definition but that

but broadened out a bit. A cult can also just mean interest in new age, which accounts for like 80% of Americans, whether it's astrology, uh whether it's the concept of manifesting, which is um

you know, the law of attraction type stuff. That stuff is huge. And as I've

stuff. That stuff is huge. And as I've talked with you about, it's also huge on the right in terms of maja, make America healthy again. Um these ideas that we

healthy again. Um these ideas that we don't think of as being too goth or too occult or too um out of the mainstream have become incredibly mainstreamed over the last decades. Uh but I mean even

going back to 19th century America, they were there and even 18th, but since the '60s, uh they've exploded, but they've become so ingrained in our lives, we don't typically notice, uh their origins.

>> We don't see them as a cult.

>> No. No. But we're we're also living through a goth explosion. I mean, I mean, I know you're not a huge, uh, you sit in front of the TV and watch Netflix, but like shows like Wednesday,

uh, Stranger Things, uh, horror is, you know, in terms of box office, maybe not in terms of creativity is as big as it's ever been. You know, Oh, yeah.

ever been. You know, Oh, yeah.

Halloween, uh, some people half joke that Halloween will be on pace to overtake Christmas at some point, just because it's like, it's become like a year- round thing.

>> Halloween?

>> Yeah, Halloween's huge. Yeah, every year it gets bigger. So there's there's an element of this Tucker where once once you >> I didn't I hate to admit in public how out of it I am but I had no idea this the first

>> Oh yeah. No, no, goth is huge. I mean

even singers like Billy Isish and stuff goth is is huge >> because it leads to happiness.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know I I mean Yeah. Happiness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've

Yeah. Happiness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've

got a new partner. It's a company called Cowboy Colostrum. It's a brand that is

Cowboy Colostrum. It's a brand that is serious about actual health. And the

product is designed to work with your body, not against your body. It is a pure and simple product, all natural.

Unlike other brands, Cowboy Colostrum is never diluted. It always comes directly

never diluted. It always comes directly from American grass-fed cows. There's no

filler, there's no junk. It's all good.

It tastes good, believe it or not. So

before you reach for more pills for every problem that pills can't solve, we recommend you give this product, Cowboy Colostrum, a try. It's got everything your body needs to heal and thrive. It's

like the original superfood loaded with nutrients antibodies proteins help build a strong immune system, stronger hair, skin, and nails. I threw my wig away and right back to my natural hair

after using this product. You just take a scoop of it every morning in your beverage, coffee or a smoothie, and you will feel the difference every time. For

a limited time, people listen to our show get 25% off the entire order. So,

go to cowboyclustrram.com. Use the code Tucker at checkout. 25% off when you use that code Tucker at cowboyclustro.com.

Remember, you mentioned you heard it here first. It

here first. It >> It's a huge thing. So, it's one of those things that once once you alert someone to to how popular something is, it's like learning a new word where you're like, I've never heard this word in my life. for the next the next week all you

life. for the next the next week all you hear is obstreporous like wow we are we like that guy is obre there it is again um so uh so no so this stuff is huge but um yeah the the reason I as opposed to a

lot of other people was able to really notice it is again I was working on this show I know the history of rock I know I know a lot of you know fair amount about politics I know some of the text stuff a little bit of um art history and

literature uh so when you know when people were talking when when you know Nick Lander whoever is talking about you know I learned uh kab Abala from Kenneth Grant and Alistister Crowley and stuff

that I'm like Kenneth Grant he's he's the guy that got Bow House and a lot of the goth guys into uh witchcraft and industrial music. What what is Nick Land

industrial music. What what is Nick Land this uh this academic who is uh you know incredibly influential on AI AI? What is

he doing being into this stuff? Okay.

So, one of the challenges of this conversation is kind of where to begin and what's the narrative spine and how do you explain something that's

>> that's this pervasive, complex, and and basically so rarely explained.

>> Mhm.

>> So, maybe we start with just a very straightforward explanation of who Nick Land is. You've referred to him twice.

Land is. You've referred to him twice.

>> Yes. Yeah. So, um uh let me see. Nick

Nick Land is kind of essentially the Timothy Liry of the 90s and 2000s. He's

he's the Velvet Underground or Brian Eno of philosophers. No hits, incredibly

of philosophers. No hits, incredibly influential.

>> Okay.

>> So, um you know, uh the thing is with Lance, >> he's a philosopher.

>> He's a philosopher. He worked in the philosophy department of Warick uh University over uh in the in England in the UK uh in the early 90s. One of the ways I actually really got into this

stuff is a friend of mine, Simon Reynolds, brilliant cultural critic, brilliant rock critic, originally from the UK, um, I brought him on to the show to do to the music show and he

interviewed Nick Land. And Simon, you know, is the most stiff upper lip, uh, you know, very intellectual English guy you could know. And so the fact that he was interviewing Nick Land, who the people said, you know, he's crazy. He's

into the occult. He's into all these wild things, I was like, well, if Simon interviewed him, this will be a downto-earth understanding of who Nick Land is, cuz Simon's very down to earth.

So when I read Simon's interview with him, which is from 1998, and um it's also where Simon meets the philosopher Mark Fischer, um which I I got to relish, uh Tuck, this is probably the first and last time someone will bring

up Mark Fischer on your podcast. So this

is I want to take some time enjoy that.

Um uh but uh but so Simon uh you know he interviews Nickland and in his article it's very lengthy. He talks about how Nickland uh is possessed by three or four entities at the same time. That's

the legend. We don't know you know take take what you will about any of this but you know that three or four entities at the same time. Um he's bringing up current >> spiritual entities.

>> Yeah. Demons. He's really into demons.

uh he uh he brings up the the 93rd Current which is the name of a band uh Current 93 which is Alistister Crowley's uh the Lima and uh they're they're they're drawing pentagrams they're renting out Alistister Crowley's house

and so that was a huge moment for me where I was like wait a second uh this guy that's very big in tech uh on the future of AI uh my buddy is interviewing

him and he's heavily into all these heavy industrial goth things that uh I know about from from this research here.

What's he doing in AI? So,

>> so what what are Nick Lan's ideas?

>> Well, that that was I went on a >> he still a philosophy professor.

>> Yeah, he's you can catch him on X and Twitter, you know, tweeting out one tweet at a time. I think he's uh xenoccismography I think is the uh is the tweet is the is his handle and he used to be outsideness. Um but you know,

he can be pretty, you know, pretty brilliant and smart and has some good takes. But um you know in his way but uh

takes. But um you know in his way but uh uh he was uh >> what are the themes of his work?

>> So he he eventually you know he he says his work was entirely channeled you know chneled as an automatic writing. So this

this goes back centuries but 100 years ago you had poets like WB Yates you noticed me struggling to make sure I make sure I pronounce that correctly. Um

he you know he had his wife do uh do a channeling to write his book. Uh a

channeling means essentially you're possessed to write this that you this didn't come naturally from you that maybe >> some outside force takes over your hands

angels. Yes. And so so his work on AI

angels. Yes. And so so his work on AI which is incredibly influential uh he he said was was an outside force to write this and uh >> and Nick is a proponent of AI.

>> Oh yeah. No, he's a proponent of AI, but his philosophy is essentially that uh we are it's we are building this AI that's going to become not only just super intelligent, but it eventually becomes

so advanced that it gains omniscience.

It gains omnipotence and it becomes this superhuman god-like thing that transcends humanity, eventually destroys humanity and he gets really into the book of Revelation, ends up becoming the

demons from the book of Revelation. The

real thing with Nick Lan that >> wait what becomes the demons of revelation?

>> AI does that AI that we are building the demons from the book of revelation with AI and >> that's Nick Lan's position >> but I should say too it's the position of a lot of these guys Elon Musk has

said that we are with AI we are summoning the demon.

>> Yes he has said that. He said that 10 years ago in an interview and he's said similar things every year since. But

Elon is or was trying to sound the alarm on that. Nick Land is

on that. Nick Land is for this.

>> I I mean with a lot of these guys, it ends up being a lot of them are I mean, you know, they would maybe blanket Satanist. Although Nick Land has said,

Satanist. Although Nick Land has said, you know, Christians who believe that what he's doing is is talking to Satan when he does these divination things. He

says they're not totally wrong. He's not

unsympathetic to it. He says he is hearing from the outside and that these are uh um you know uh he's not totally unsympathetic for it. But but with a lot of these guys, what was interesting

about Nick Land is that uh there's a they keep getting the same ideas. These

guys take drugs whether it's Elon Nick or even in the 70s the scientist John C.

Lillly. John C. Liy was an eminent scientist, brilliant dude. He started

doing uh ketamine the same the same drug you know everyone does in Silicon Valley and they when they do this drug and even if you're an atheist materialist this is still interesting. they all get the same

still interesting. they all get the same idea which is that the machines are, you know, coming. It's like Skynet and

know, coming. It's like Skynet and Terminator. They're coming together.

Terminator. They're coming together.

They're um they're evolving to eventually take over and that we are uh hanging ourselves with the rope we're currently building by building this. But

this goes back Nick Land was interesting, but he became less interesting to me when I realized that other scientists in the 70s uh John C.

Lily the movie al uh altered states from 1980 is horror movie. This is about, you know, you know, he would have these visions about the machines. He called

them the solid state entities. Um he he would have this in the 70s Tucker in this in this tank. Um the isolation tank he'd go in the new and you probably haven't seen it, but the new Mission

Impossible movie, um Tom Cruz, you know, he fights this AI and he goes in the isolation tank and he has these visions of it. One of the biggest movies of this

of it. One of the biggest movies of this past summer and uh that that plot point comes from John C. Lily and the visions he would get of AI apocalypse in the

isolation tank back in the 70s. So I

bring this up to say Nick Land is the most foremost uh proponent of it that has a public name even though he's not that famous right now but this goes back a long time uh you know at least back to

the 70s.

>> So are these so people take ketamine and they all have the same vision? I mean or species of >> enough enough of them do to make it very strange and alarming that I mean I mean that that's the thing that one of the

main influences on both the show I was building and these guys um Brian G S Burls is create a partner he would say the thing is about getting high and about doing psychedelics is that you know you can spot people you know

eventually who are on the same drug and you're both getting the same ideas some some drugs he said you know increases telepathy you know people are it puts them on the same same wavelength so with a lot of these guys

>> it's a little weird that different people from different places, different countries, different life experiences would take a drug and have the same kind of vision.

>> It's totally weird. And for anyone who who's tuned in, >> that can't be organic.

>> No, no, no. And and and but that that is weird beyond what anyone's individual personal beliefs are. So,

>> exactly.

>> That that's Yeah. So, if anyone tunes in and they're like, "Where did Tucker find this guy that looks like Greg Olsen talking about uh insane AI stuff?" Uh

I'm if they're an atheist, they don't believe any of this. Like you're saying, the fact that people are taking these drugs and they're very powerful and they work in tech and they are getting the same ideas, the same fears. They think

in some cases they're talking to the same entities. There are books now about

same entities. There are books now about you if you take DMT, if you encounter this this machine elf, be wary of this, you know, they're encountering the same stuff. That's that's an interesting

stuff. That's that's an interesting phenomenon just biologically regardless of what people >> like. Ancient sacred art has the same

>> like. Ancient sacred art has the same images created on different continents at different periods. They couldn't have had contact with each other. So why why are they drawing the same bird man or

the same purse like it because they're seeing the same visions which suggests that those visions are real.

>> Why why is snake worship uh universal around the world serpent worship?

>> Here's something you may not have known.

Back in 2015, the Congress of the United States repealed something called the Country of Origin Labeling Act. Now why

is this relevant to you? Well, it means among other things that when you buy beef at the supermarket that says made in the USA, it may not actually be. In

fact, it could be likely is from a foreign country. It means that

foreign country. It means that repackaging foreign meat can be enough to get the made in USA designation. It's

a lie. It's an absolute lie. Most people

don't even know what's happening. So,

how can you be sure that the meat you're eating is from the United States and has been raised with the highest quality standards and is the tastiest, is truly made here? Well, it's simple. You can go

made here? Well, it's simple. You can go to our friends at Merryweather Farms. Merryweather Farms is an American small business. It's based in Riverton,

business. It's based in Riverton, Wyoming. We know the people who run it

Wyoming. We know the people who run it and they're great people. And they have great meat. They ship the highest

great meat. They ship the highest quality meat raised free from growth hormones and antibiotics directly to your doorstep. It's delicious. We eat it

your doorstep. It's delicious. We eat it a lot, including at this table. These

are Americans. These are Americanmade products. They are the real deal. Again,

products. They are the real deal. Again,

we eat that meat at this table from Riverton, Wyoming. They're the best.

Riverton, Wyoming. They're the best.

Merryweatherfarmms.com.

Use the discount code Tucker10 and you get an extra 10% off. Again, that's

Merryweatherfarmms. M Ri Terarmms.com.

It's worth it.

>> Exactly. Because there's something that people are responding to that's not coming from within them, but outside of them. That that was Carl Jung's like

them. That that was Carl Jung's like main insight is that um is that you know getting the idea of of can ideas come from without you and not just within you. So yeah. Well, yeah. And the

you. So yeah. Well, yeah. And the

materialist doesn't want to admit that.

And our culture has kind since we dropped the atom bomb has sort of written off the possibility that that could be true, but it's just reconnecting with something that every civilization has always assumed was true, which is there's a spiritual realm

that's every bit as real as your iPhone or this desk. And it's just it's absolutely real and it acts on us all the time. And and that is the truth.

the time. And and that is the truth.

>> Yeah. And um I know you seem to take that for granted, but it's still shocking to those of us who grew up in a m you know basically a a godless country. It's

country. It's >> totally I mean one of the the basis for my my interest in a lot of this is you know um my mom I was raised in a Christian home. I consider, you know,

Christian home. I consider, you know, I'm a Christian myself and my mom would always say, you know, she became a Christian in the 70s and she but she knew all the psychedelic um groups back

in the '60s, you know, Love Spirit, um you know, she and my aunt would go to, you know, Door Shows and all those, you know, uh groups from the late 1960s. And

something that she'd say and and that people who are um you know rock and rollers into the occult would say that they both say the same thing um which is that people take drugs musicians do uh

for inspiration for creativity to tap themselves into the spiritual realm to get to pull something from outside themselves. So the basis for my interest

themselves. So the basis for my interest in a lot of this stuff was like that's something my mom says my mom's great Christian one of the all-time greats and uh this is something that you know every musician knows too that's why they take

drugs is to tap into the spiritual >> so I didn't know that I thought that people took drug I mean I took drugs um >> people take drugs for all kinds >> I'll admit it but I always assumed that

those insights or really mostly fake insights but um all that stuff came from within that it was I mean I bought the Freudian analysis of it that there's you only use 10% of your brain and there's

this whole sort of primordial sea in your head of of thoughts and visions that you're not in touch with on a daily

basis, but that drugs thin the membrane, but I it never occurred to me a single time until middle age when I started to see reality that actually they're coming from outside you.

>> Well, that and Tucker, that's a great point. That's something that any

point. That's something that any psychedelic eye, it's kind of a double double standard thing I deal where when talking about drug use, they'll always say, "Well, there's no difference between what's going on in my head and what's going outside." It's we're all one. That's always, you know, I think it

one. That's always, you know, I think it was William James said, you know, the great oceanic feeling. You know what he what he would but that's the that's always their big insight is, hey man, what's going on in my head is different from what's going outside until the

psychonaut encounters some sort of weird demon on DMT and then they backtrack and they're like, "Brother, that's just in my head. Don't worry. what's in my head

my head. Don't worry. what's in my head can't get in your head. So they they go from >> until you have two different people meeting the same demon.

>> Right. Right. Right.

>> Then you realize, well, wait a second.

>> Psychonauts are maybe not the most logistically consistent.

>> No, but I'm just saying again just to hammer the point again and again and again because it can't be hammered hard enough that there is a realm that exists outside of us over which we are not in control.

>> Yes.

>> And that it can enter. You can bring stuff into you.

>> Right.

>> That has control over you.

>> Right. Right. Right. Totally. And you

know, um, to bring this back into some historical precedent, a good question that, you know, people have asked me, you know, what are the precedents for this? Because this is really weird to

this? Because this is really weird to think of people in tech, uh, you know, who are into this strange AI stuff. You

know, I thought everyone was pretty grounded. But, um, you know, if you look

grounded. But, um, you know, if you look at, um, you know, are you familiar with the story of Jack Parsons over at um, you know, he >> Please tell the story if you don't mind.

>> I mean, I'll I'll do do a succinct one.

Um, Jack Parsons, you know, he grew up in Pasadena. um you know he was uh he

in Pasadena. um you know he was uh he was brought on by I think it's Theodore von Cararman um uh this uh this scientist over at I think it's Cal is it Caltech or eventually it was JPL but he

but he he was really really into the occult and uh he summoned the devil allegedly when he was 13 really really into esoteric stuff part of this greater LA avantgard scene and um you know he's

I think like the I think he's been said he's the fourth most important person in the in the history of um of uh send you know of jet rocketry and stuff like that, but he was really really into the

idea of um you know bringing in a uh manifesting a supernatural being. So he

would go with um Elron Hubard, the future founder of Scientology and I know that Scientology said they say that Elron Hubard was he was doing intelligence work. he wasn't really into

intelligence work. he wasn't really into into this stuff, but um he would uh he would go with Ron Hubbert into um the Pasadena Royal Seiko and they do rituals

there and they try to uh manifest, you know, like a kind of supern natural uh figure. So there's a classic example

figure. So there's a classic example there and science is littered with these of people who are brilliant scientists but who are into incredibly strange stuff and uh you know his the guy

>> I noticed that a lot of those scientists are working on technology that kills people.

>> Yeah. You know, they also do that, too.

And and the guy that brought him on, >> well, Parsons was doing that. Well,

>> I mean, ultimately, the technology was used to kill people.

>> Which one are you referring to?

>> Rocketry.

>> Oh, yeah. Rocketry was. And what's

funny, too, is he he he either he or Von Cararman, they donated to um my friend Rick Spence. He he um he's like the Doc

Rick Spence. He he um he's like the Doc Brown to my Marty McFly. This he's this historian I brought on for um my show trying to do it, and he's an expert on Parsons and this stuff. and he pointed

out to me that Parsons and Bonarman that they were um they were part of the Pasadena cell 122 of the Communist Party, which is he said the exact same one that I forget if it was Robert or

Frank Oppenheimer and Pasadena were also donating money to. So there's an incidental um funny historical connection there between Oppenheimer and Parsons and um you know the the

Communist Party. But uh

Communist Party. But uh >> as if we needed more evidence that nuclear weapons are demonic. Well,

>> I know this upsets certain people on the so-called right, but the pro and evil.

Yeah.

>> Um, it is funny though. the uh I was going to say the uh Parsons the guy that brought Parsons on though was this guy um Theodore Vonarman and uh Vonarman's

uh father told him told Carmen brilliant scientist that he was descended from I was going to butcher the names here but I think it was Rabbi Low the uh 16th

century Prague rabbi who uh brought together the golem which I bring up because uh that's something you notice with AI too is a lot of the main figures

in AI I um they all think of themselves as being descended from creating a golem and the nature of digital life and this is also very important to Nick Lan's

thinking um is very similar to to Cabala which is you're you're using um in in digital life ones and zeros but you're you're using an algorithm a set of instructions to bring an inanimate

object to life which is the creation of a golem you know you use clay it's man man as god >> tell us what a golem is >> man never thought this would be the Tucker's asking me what a golem is where

the movie would do the record scratch freeze frame. You might be wondering how

freeze frame. You might be wondering how I got here.

Tell us what a golem is. Con. Um, a

golem is essentially uh it's a it's a creature, you know, mythical but with with digital life or um we've already kind of created them. The idea of man

creating a creature that uh an artificial life form. So back in the 16th century, the idea was you take clay and then you you'd create the little parts of a little man, kind of create a, you know, like a Frankenstein.

Frankenstein's a golem.

>> Yeah.

>> Essentially, but you'd have the algorithm, you know, or the or the ritual uh and you'd animate the thing, uh, you know, using, you know, symbols

and numbers and it would eventually come to life and uh, >> and be your slave.

>> And be your and be well, what's funny is be be your slave. But the legend of the the um the golem in Prague and this it's probably just assuredly just a legend is that it broke free and started killing

people and doing all these things. So

that's an important point to make is when people talk >> how do we assume that's a legend?

>> You know, you would think that would have gone viral on TikTok on something in the 16th century if if if they had that. I mean, you know what's funny

that. I mean, you know what's funny though is that you look at stuff like the Terminator movies and these idea of AI apocalypse which is very very big right now. I mean, the Washington

right now. I mean, the Washington Journal uh they had this um last week, you know, it's it's the the phone and chat GPT is bringing up all kinds of

great occult lore. This is from the uh the occult journal, Wall Street Journal, very obscure >> cobalistic newspaper based out of New York City. No. Um

York City. No. Um

>> and so the art, in case viewers can't see it, is a serpent emerging from a rose.

>> Yeah.

>> Wrapped around the arm of the iPhone holder.

>> Yeah. And so, you know, this idea of weird technology, of things getting out of hand. When people talk about the AI

of hand. When people talk about the AI and the AI demons or this or that, uh, it actually just goes back to the golem.

I mean, the Terminator movies are essentially about golems, man creating a creature, the creature breaking free from man and and killing him. And in the case of Nick Landel, >> and but the original golem in Prague,

the one you're referring to in the 16th century, was the product of something called Cabala.

>> Yeah. Cabala. And this this is an essential Nickland thing. Uh

>> what is cabala?

>> Cabala is something uh after the destruction of the first temple um the Jewish people were famously enslaved and taken captive by the Babylonians. This

is where the book of Daniel's written and uh what Nickland does and a lot of these guys do is they they end up perverting uh Jewish history and they you know in the Bible it says you know salvation is of the Jews which people

forget and a lot of people that don't like Jews you know they forget you know the Bible comes from the Jews. It's all

almost all exclusively written by Jewish men, but maybe not the book of Luke. So,

what um Nick Land does and a lot of these guys is they say the real purpose of the Jewish people was that they picked up Cabala from the Babylonians uh

back in maybe fifth century before Christ and that they they kept it. It

eventually becomes, you know, Cabala is essentially it's a form of uh and people would say magic. I mean, Gary Lochman says that what we think of as occultism is all essentially kabala, at least in

the west. It's a it's a form of magic.

the west. It's a it's a form of magic.

Uh, it's a form of uh, you know, I'm going to butcher this cuz I'm not a scholar on it, but essentially what Nick Lan believes is that the Jewish people that they they kept uh, the Cababala, they they it eventually becomes digital

life um, you know, through ones and zeros, >> but it's it's a Gnostic religion, which is to say it's >> hidden from non-initiates.

>> Yeah. I mean I mean there's there's a mainstream version version of it but uh yeah it eventually kind of becomes uh what what they believe um it it pre it's

a precursor to digital life. So what

land and a lot of these people believe is that the actual salvation that the Jewish people provided was keeping Kabala which eventually becomes digital life which eventually becomes AI which eventually becomes the creatures in the

book of revelation which essentially later go on to destroy humanity and fulfill the book of revelation. But that

is a good thing. A lot of them believe something amazing is happening in the US after years of national rejection of faith. Remember the new atheists

faith. Remember the new atheists long gone because a revival is underway.

Millions of Americans are rediscovering what our culture tried so hard to hide which is the ultimate power of the universe. The power of prayer. This is

universe. The power of prayer. This is

taking place at the right moment. Times

like these require truth speaking, preaching of the gospel, which is the truth, and boldness in the face of struggle. When evil emerges, as it did

struggle. When evil emerges, as it did in September when Charlie Kirk was assassinated, people wake up and they find God, cuz that is the only answer.

You need prayer. And you know you do. By

the way, the Hallow app makes it easy.

You find scripture, meditations, reflections, guided prayers. Whether you

pray constantly or just getting started, aren't really sure what prayer is, but feel like you should be doing it because you should. There is something for you.

you should. There is something for you.

Something real and something eternal.

Trust me, this is a neverending topic of conversation in my house, including today. Hallow and the power of prayer

today. Hallow and the power of prayer that Hallow unleashes. Instead of

wasting time scrolling through social media, Hallow lets you begin and end your day connecting with God, which is really all that matters. And it reminds you of that. joins the millions of Americans who are discovering the peace,

the only real peace and clarity that prayer can bring. Hallow. Download it

today. H A L L O W. It's free to try.

May be the most important decision you make this year. Get 3 months free at hallow.com/tucker.

hallow.com/tucker.

And if it doesn't change your life, I'll be shocked. I mean that. Now, why would

be shocked. I mean that. Now, why would that be a good thing?

>> For a lot of these guys, um like Nick Land, you know, he calls himself a theosophist. Theosophy um again hard

theosophist. Theosophy um again hard hard thing to um ent you know untie but in part because the religion itself was kind of a mishmash. It was a 19th

century philosophy uh formally uh put in place by Madame Lovatsky I think in 1875 >> a Russian immigrate to London.

>> Yes. And she come from a long background of like you know Freemasons and German you know um yeah she she came from a very occult. Her first cousin was the

very occult. Her first cousin was the premier was the president of Russia Sergey Vitz. I'm again probably

Sergey Vitz. I'm again probably butchering a lot of names here but um but uh so >> Madam Levatsky was a very famous person in 197 she was essentially the mother of

the new age movement. So what she believed uh it's it's western esotericism mixed with eastern religion.

It's essentially protohippie protohippy protoc California uh counterculture stuff. A great book on this one of my

stuff. A great book on this one of my favorite books is a book by Martin Green called Mountain of Truth uh about Asana Switzerland. It's about the birth of the

Switzerland. It's about the birth of the modern counterculture, the California counterculture, you know, whether it was uh Trosky and Lenin or uh Carl Jung, all these people hung out Tucker in the same

place in Switzerland in like the 1920s.

But so theosophy's main insight according to land was that um and he said it himself the secret doctor in the name of her book um was that uh this is what land believes about Bulbotsky the

serpent is the redeemer that Satan and Jesus are the same person which also ties in with a gnostic called called the orites I believe from the second century who again they believe when Moses is

holding up the snake on a stick that's also Jesus on the cross pretty heretical stuff so to to answer your question how do you get into Satanism. Again,

another, you know, uh, record scratch.

How did I get here moment to say that say that out loud? Um, they they believe that essentially it's the Gnostic idea that Adam and Eve were uh were slaves in the garden, that they uh they were stuck

there, that the serpent by by when he approaches them, he essentially gives them the red the red pill speech from the matrix. Look, you're a slave here.

the matrix. Look, you're a slave here.

You're not doing anything. You're naming

animals and tending to a garden. You're

never going to break free from this over god that's here. I can give you a I can give you a choice. You know, take this fruit, this red pill. I don't know if it was a pill. Uh or you can stay here and

be a slave. But just know if you take this thing, if you take this pill, if you eat this fruit of knowledge, which as you can see, I should emphasize this, the tree of knowledge very much ties

directly into this whole concept of AI, which is we are kind of creating this tree of knowledge. But we'll get to that in a second. But the serpent says you can eat from the tree of knowledge and you know there'll be a price to pay for

that but you're going to be free and you're going to be you're going to you know you'll be like a god >> once you rebel against dad.

>> Yeah. Essentially yes you you will be free. You need to transgress. You need

free. You need to transgress. You need

to sin but you you're going to be like a god.

>> Eve famously eats the fruit you know brings death into the world. And you

know they they understand shame. They

have this nosis moment Adam and Eve where they realize oh my goodness we're naked. Who are we? you know that they

naked. Who are we? you know that they have this self they have this selfactualization moment that is the gnostic interpretation of the garden of Eden and that is very much uh you know

it's it's an ancient ancient idea no ideas are really true too new but to answer your question >> that's the oldest idea of all >> it's very old but >> bow down before me and you'll be like God >> yeah and but to get back to your

original question how do how do people get into these ideas of um I mean the theosophists would say the you know in some cases you know it seems like they believe in Satan. But even on a

metaphorical level, they would say um the mind, intelligence is Satan. That

the human mind, it's breaking free. This

is intelligence breaking out. So, I want to make a crucial point here. When they

talk about AI and they talk about AI apocalypse and they talk about um intelligence breaking free and AGI, you're getting into this idea that even Land himself will say is theosophy, but

it goes way back of the mind breaking out and rebelling against God, intelligence breaking free. That's what

they believe happened in the garden withnosticism with notnosticism means knowledgeism. It's knowledge. This is

knowledgeism. It's knowledge. This is

pure knowledge that this is that breaking free and that by creating these runaway AI things that's what we're also doing. And the fact that it may kill

doing. And the fact that it may kill humanity or transcend humanity or humanity will need to evolve to go with it. That's cool. They see it Tucker as

it. That's cool. They see it Tucker as essentially being the same situation in the garden. Break free. Do it. Yes,

the garden. Break free. Do it. Yes,

you'll bring death. Yes, you'll get us all killed or some people killed.

Whatever. just do it.

You know, uh, cults typically don't buy green bananas as far as thinking ahead.

>> They don't. And this is a religion for people who don't have children.

>> No. No.

>> Of course. Just do it.

>> Right.

>> Um, so what I think you've successfully done is tied a bunch of different threads together and pointed them all the way back to the origin story.

>> Well, I I hope I did. I hope I just didn't do the it's always sunny meme of him having the um you know all these index cards and just just it's a very hard thing to >> No, I think you you laid out the

thematic basis of nasticism, cabala, whatever you're calling it, the occult, it's all a rebellion against God and it's always

predicated on the same transaction which is bow down before me and I will give you power. Well, it definitely can be

you power. Well, it definitely can be that and I want to emphasize, you know, they they do pervert Jewish history by making the Jewish people by by them preserving the Cabala when they're when they're in exile and and and picking it

up, they say that's the real purpose of the Jewish people. And the people that are that are into um the AI forrunners, whether it's Marvin Minsky, who uh was one of the Epstein, that was one of the

guys that the girl uh who I think um killed herself in the last year. Um she

said she met Marvin Minsky and was told have sex with this dude. Um he's one of the founding fathers of AI but you know he he comes from this uh the background of um uh having fathers uh yeah he comes

from the background he was told that he was the descendant of Rabbi Lo the uh the Prague guy the creator of the golem as was Jack Good who wrote one of the uh main books that you know is about AI in 1965

>> was a relative of the >> yeah but most of them aren't I think the one I mentioned earlier von Cararman actually was like they were he was the one that was told like you actually are descended from him the other one it's more like telling a wasp kid, you know,

you're you're a descendant of George Washington or whatever, >> right? You're a Mayflower descendant.

>> right? You're a Mayflower descendant.

>> Yeah. But but but you know, even though uh you know, they kind of pervert Jewish history like that, anti-semites also love Cabala, too. I mean, even um it was found in 2008. Uh in Hitler's personal library, he had a book from Ernest Shle,

the Alistister Crowley of Germany. And

he and um I mean, not many people know this story because it's recent, but um Hitler was circling like cobbalistic things about Satan and this stuff. So,

and this is this is something that Gary Lockman's pointed out. Um, it's a key part of Jewish history, but also even people that hate Jews also really get into Cabala, too. So, I don't want to, you know, generalize too much.

>> Interesting. Um, so back to land. So,

land is this academic. He's a phil tenur, I assume, tenure philosophy professor. He's a philosophy professor

professor. He's a philosophy professor at a British university. He said he describes himself or has been described as occupied by demons, possessed by demons.

>> Oh, yeah. My friend Simon, I think I mentioned that earlier when he went out there, it said, you know, land the legend around land is he had been possessed by at least three or four demons at the same time.

>> So, normally like as a resume point, that would be a deal killer. If someone

comes to you and says, "I want to work for you. I'm possessed by demons."

for you. I'm possessed by demons."

>> You would you would say, "No, I don't want any demonpossessed employees." But

for Lamb, >> typically, yeah, >> that increases his stature with certain people.

>> Well, totally. I mean this is something and this is a huge thing I I learned Tucker in researching this thing that I was reading this book um because with

Land and his and his group of academics the CCRU um the cultural cybernetic research unit they were very much based off of Genesis Porig's uh temple of psychic youth where the idea the idea

comes from Burroughs which is to use modern tech to its fullest for occult purposes that the modern magician does not shy away from using the latest tech that is William Burroughs his thing.

There's a great book called uh The Occult World of William S. Burroughs and

it talks about how he'd use audio recordings, movies, editing to try to edit reality to try to try to create a a glitch in the matrix or whatever you want to say to do that. Um so Land and

his guys um >> can I say interject and just say you've you've mentioned Jack Parsons, you've mentioned Bill Burroughs, >> all the legends. Yeah,

>> all the legends. Um but if you look at the life trajectory of all of these people, it ends in poverty, misery, insanity suicide addiction

alienation. Like is there a single

alienation. Like is there a single person in the world you're now describing for whom it ends well?

>> No. And that was Tucker. That was one of the reasons that was really surprising researching land is uh he mentions this guy Kenneth Grant who's a powerful music uh I was going to say musician, powerful

magician. Alistister Crowley's secretary

magician. Alistister Crowley's secretary and what Kenneth Grant said um you know very steeped in the occult English guy uh he said about rock and roll which again was the basis from my the show of

like rock and the occult. He said Ken Grant said of course rock and roll is demonic. He goes look at the way these

demonic. He goes look at the way these guys look at the way their lives end. He

goes of course this is horrible for you.

So when I read that, >> yes, when you die at 27 of self-inflicted wounds, as famously so many of them did, that's not like a sign that you're on the right path, right?

>> Well, it ends horribly for most of them.

But that, but the fact that Kenneth Grant had said that, this wasn't coming from a pastor. This is coming from Alistister Crowley's secretary. I was

like, this I was like, this is the show.

I was like, when you've got this guy saying that. So, Tucker, when I found

saying that. So, Tucker, when I found that Nick Lenn was influenced by this guy Kenneth Grant, this famous, you know, black mag black magician, I was like, wait a second. That's when I knew

I had more than a show. I'm like, wait, the the goth legends, Bow House, Coil, Nurse with Wound. Again, we got to take a break. No one I don't think we'll ever

a break. No one I don't think we'll ever bring up Nurse with Wound again on your show. So that that's

show. So that that's >> Yeah, I of course have literally no idea what you're talking about, >> but but the fact that there was a huge intersection between um the industrial music scene and these hardcore um occult

practitioners and the current AI leaders in Silicon Valley, I was like, what have I stumbled into? What is going on here?

So when Alistister Crowley's secretary says, of course rock and roll is demonic, basically I mean you've got the horseshoe effect >> right >> here. So, here you have Alistister

>> here. So, here you have Alistister Crowley, like famous Satanist.

>> Um, >> I mean, I would say he would say he's a he's a gnostic, but you you do get into a thing of like, well, what is narcissism?

>> Yeah. Well, that, you know, Satanist is my description, but it seems obvious.

>> Um, to me, but whatever. A guy who's like worshiping demons >> heavily into Yeah. heavily into the occult.

>> It when his secretary says rock and roll is demonic, agreeing with like every, you know, the famous pastor after >> every kid who cried cuz his dad took his Emerson Lake and Palmer albums in the 70s,

>> you know.

>> I guess it all was very obvious, right?

>> Well, well, that's that's how I knew I could finally make the show is cuz you you know there's >> I mean, of course it's demonic. Like,

duh.

>> Well, I think a lot of it I mean, you can't argue with you can't argue with Alice Crowley secretary. I think it's the main thing.

>> That's right. You know, but that that was was interesting why I finally wanted to do the show is for so many decades you couldn't do a show like this because everyone would get so defensive about rock and roll. It' be taking a child's

toy away where it's like can we do a show that that has it has pastors, it has Christians, that has rabbis, it has all these people who talk about the religious aspect of music, but then could you also get these other people

who uh are into the darker side of things to also talk about it? And for so long, especially um with a lot of Christians, they they would be so defensive about it's there's nothing wrong with that. I can do what I want

with this that you couldn't actually have made the show. It's only because rock and roll is uh I'm going to be the millionth person to say this is many ways culturally dead or is so irrelevant that you can finally do a show on this.

It's >> like, yeah, it actually did infect America with some kind of incurable spiritual cancer that led to where we are now.

>> Yeah. I mean, what was funny, there was the writer Theodoro Darmple, and he um >> was a brilliant man.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He's a he's a brilliant writer, and he he went to um he he was uh commissioned by the Spectator cuz he he's such a smart uh well-learned guy, and they thought it'd be hilarious to

send him to an Oasis concert uh in England, and this is about in the '90s.

And he he goes there and he he writes about it and he he says this is you know rock concerts are essentially fascism with you know the the the unity of the crowd and the shouting and the spirit of

uh derelct behavior. And he said and this is from the spectators. This is a pretty conservative newspaper. He never

got more push back for anything he ever wrote in his career. And he he's a man who's known to have many a hot take than when he criticized rock and roll. So as

you know as a journalist whenever you have something that touches a nerve where people like you can talk about whatever you want Tucker >> but we won't let you talk about this or we ask that you not talk about.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So that's but here's a question I I have had for you over your years as a journalist uh in doing tons of TV. Um I

know only the last few years you've you've been more interested in in spiritual life and the Bible and and seeing uh you know spiritual meaning and stuff. Is there a story you've covered

stuff. Is there a story you've covered in the last few or just a story you've covered at all where at the beginning you took a much more secular much more cut and dried approach to it that now if

you if you today had covered that back then you would see >> every story every story I mean especially war which I have covered in

person and certainly talked a lot about over the years um I I just saw it as a product you know the sort of failure of state craft and like you know nations

act rationally you know one country wants this territory either to conquer or to reclaim it and this country doesn't want to give it up and so they have a war

over it you know that's I had a very secular understanding of war and it was the first world war that changed my view

probably 15 years ago well what was it be 10 years ago so uh the anniversary of the the outbreak of the war in 1914 there There was a series of symposia in Europe on like you know what was that

you know it destroyed Christian Europe and uh for maybe forever and like what I mean the apogee of human civilization was 1913 obviously and then it was really it was destroyed and it never

recovered and a bunch of other empires fell including the Ottoman and Austrohungarian and all this stuff it's like it reshuffled the map and >> gave rise not just to the second world war but to the world that we now live in. So like

in. So like >> how did it start? Goal princip kills Archduke Ferdinand Sievo and okay but how does it follow that like

>> Christian Europe commits suicide in the wake of one assassination and the Balkans like what that doesn't even make sense.

>> Right. Right. Right.

>> And there was no consensus a hundred years later on why the war started.

>> Right.

>> And that's when you begin to like ask real questions like what are we what was that? And and it was of course it was it

that? And and it was of course it was it was spiritual in its origin and so is the war in Ukraine and so is what's happening in Gaza and so is basically all human activity is influenced by the

spiritual realm which once again is as real as anything that we're doing here as real as the material world. And so

that to me is someone who's interested in history in a very amateur way but still passionately interested. I was

like "Wow I am not assessing the human experience in its totality. I'm only seeing a small part of it." And um so now I really make

an effort which it's difficult at the age of 56 to relearn patterns, >> but I'm trying to assess human behavior in light again of the to in light of it totality

>> of the human experience, much of which is influenced by the spiritual realm.

And it's like hard because I still my default is always like this person's pissed at this person or this person wants more money or this person wants to sleep with that guy's wife or but to ascribe

>> to be fair human motives >> to to explain human activity but um but that's only part of the story.

>> Oh, totally totally and there's this obvious to you. It's not obvious to me at all.

>> No, but what's got to be fascinating for you is going back over your career and I got to say something that's that's funny is um you know you've been on TV for decades and I've heard your voice for decades. So there's a there's a there's

decades. So there's a there's a there's an element of talking to you where my brain will be half a second slow because I'll hear your voice not right now but earlier and part of my brain is like

someone obviously left the TV on or >> turn that [ __ ] thing off >> or or has this is why I don't have >> No or someone has a podcast going cuz just Tuckers and then my brain is like a half second delay and I'm like dude he's talking to you.

>> Sorry.

>> No, but I'm just so I'm just I've heard your voice over this as we all have over decades. So it it is funny cuz we were

decades. So it it is funny cuz we were talking earlier and I'm like, "Oh yeah, oh, wait, wait. That's that's me. He's

asking me if I'm ready to go."

>> So I get so this is all kind of new to me and when I talk to people who are, you know, lifelong students of uh of of religion, which is of course the main

driver of human behavior from the beginning of time. And for you know again since we dropped the atom bomb we lied to we have lied to ourselves about that and kind of deleted

>> that whole category from public conversation which is or you know it's been left to like Jerry Fwell and Rabbi Schmoolley and other various buffoons to like talk about religion. It's like so

sad but um >> it's been moved to the fringes but >> when I talk to someone like you who's clearly thought about this much more deeply than I have and over a much longer period >> I'm a man of many books and PDFs.

>> Yeah. It doesn't sound like it's like shocking to you.

>> Well, well, that's the thing we're going back to talking about earlier in terms of uh it's a mixture of um in in my case, uh you know, having read a lot, but also knowing people and knowing some people involved. We were talking earlier

people involved. We were talking earlier about um you know, when you have a father who works in journalism, it it it grounds you. And it same thing with like

grounds you. And it same thing with like what people call conspiracy theories where you're you're like you're able to know off the bat just a general sense of stuff cuz you're like, "Oh, that guy's friends with my dad. That that can't be true."

true." Exactly the life I've lived. That's

exactly right. Too close,

>> right?

>> Proximity causes blindness. It's weird.

You don't >> But but it's tremendously helpful though in these things cuz so many of these things are so insane and so weird that most people can't parse it. I mean, I didn't bring this up earlier, but um with my grandfather in particular, the

way I I kind of even know a lot about sorted stuff. I my grand like there was

sorted stuff. I my grand like there was so many scandals uh Tucker that my grandfather was like he had some like insight into like he met he was going to play Jimmy Hoffa in a movie about bought the rights to him. Uh he met Jimmy Hoffa

hung out with him in Fort Lauderdale a week before Hawa died. One of his best friends was killed by the Manson family.

Uh you know on the other side of my family um the Ted Kennedy crash in Chapa Quitic. His lawyers called my

Quitic. His lawyers called my grandmother's house accidentally. They

were trying to call the Harborview Hotel which was one digit off 3337 versus 3377. So you know his lawyers

3377. So you know his lawyers accidentally called my grandmother and goes Ted there you know. So that there's like that's like three of like 10 of like the major sorted tablet. So I bring

that up to say when you and you would know this from your your your father too as a journalist. When you grow up in an environment where weird stuff is not just there to be goped at or go wow that's something no one can ever figure

out. you have enough information that

out. you have enough information that you're able to go like, "No, no, my dad knows him and I've met him. I know so and so. If I do the research, I can get

and so. If I do the research, I can get maybe to 50% of knowing the story when anyone else can get to 40%." Which is still huge in the grand scheme of things.

>> I've had the opposite experience. And

even now, especially now, when I I read people I read about people in the, you know, the media and they're described as one thing and I know them pretty well and I don't see that at all and yet it's

clearly true, >> right?

>> And I'm thinking of a couple people who I really like who are clearly kind of evil.

>> It's just obvious that they're pretty evil. But you know my experience at and

evil. But you know my experience at and I try not to hang around evil people but you know I just know people for a long time and I just had dinner with that person and it was sort of eccentric but I don't I don't really see him as part

of a global conspiracy to oppress anyone right >> I don't see him as a tool of Satan but you know the evidence suggests he is I'm just trying to be honest right >> well you bring up something I always think about in regards to the Bible that

one of the reasons the Bible is true is that it's it's in its depiction of villains and heroes the heroes in the Bible you look at King David look at political scandal scandal he gets in

where he he he sees this woman bathing Bath Sheba he's really turned on by this uh he he knows her husband uh Uriah I think sends them to the front lines of

war to get them killed intentionally that would be a gnarly political scandal for anyone that is that is a pure act of evil but that is what people including heroes can get up to and then if you look at the villains in the Bible if you

look at um uh like even say Pharaoh Pharaoh uh most feelings you know in human life are uh most emotions are mixed emotions and people are ambivalent and ambiguous. Pharaoh at numerous

and ambiguous. Pharaoh at numerous times, you know, he he wants to set the uh Hebrews free. He wants to set the Jewish people free. You know, he goes, "Surely, I forget what plague it was where he's like, "My goodness, that was that was rough."

>> But God prevented him from doing it, >> right? Well, well, but God is sovereign.

>> right? Well, well, but God is sovereign.

Does that in all of our lives, but but he, you know, God even says God hardened his heart.

>> Exactly.

>> So, God chose to to make to make him such where he decides at the last moment, you actually, I'm not going to set you free. I can't do that. And if

you look at Pontius Pilot, Pontious Pilot, you know, he he wants to set uh he at some point he flips and he's like, you know, this guy is innocent. My wife

is having dreams about this man. That's

another thing that's underreported in history. Um wife as wife as

history. Um wife as wife as soothsayer/dreamer.

I mean, you your wife has many times been like, I have a bad feeling about this guy, Tucker. Don't have him on your show. And and and her intuition is such

show. And and and her intuition is such that you even though there's no necessarily hard evidence, you know, it's your wife's take on stuff. You

don't ignore it, but that's >> I have ignored it. Um, and it's >> you're like, I've actually never listened to that.

>> I No, I mean, I've been married 34 years as of Saturday, and it's like a joke in my house. You know, I told you he was

my house. You know, I told you he was bad. I don't know. He's hilarious. He

bad. I don't know. He's hilarious. He

seemed like a good guy to me. You know,

>> that's hilarious. Yeah.

>> So, you'd be the Pontious Pilot where she's like, you >> don't arrest this man. I had a dream.

>> And you're like, whatever. I'm doing my work right now. I'm very shallow. So,

someone's someone who's amusing or fun to have dinner with, you know, I just get swept away. I like that guy. You

know what I mean?

>> You're like, "Braabis was amazing on that podcast. I got I got to have I got

that podcast. I got I got to have I got to have him on. He's he's fantastic."

>> Um, so, okay. So, just one last question about Nick Lane. I'm fixated in this because I don't fully understand, >> but um his role in this movement, it clearly is a loose movement.

>> Sure.

of occultists, of demon worshippers, of people who are possessed by demons and say so out loud, but he winds up having an effect on a lot of very powerful people, it sounds like.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's something and again when you're working on the the the Hollywood show like I was, um, people will come and tell you stuff that otherwise it keeps to themselves. And so

back in 2002, um, you know, people would, you know, would tell me, you know, Nick Land's really really influential, people in, you know, Silicon Valley, uh, you know, his his work. It's not all just occultism. I

work. It's not all just occultism. I

mean, he his idea is that AI will revolutionize uh society.

>> So, you start talking to people in Silicon Valley and it turns out they are in contact with or reading Nick Land.

>> Well, with Nick Land and with a lot of weird stuff. I mean, in 2022, I was uh

weird stuff. I mean, in 2022, I was uh uh you know, looking researching more on my show and um I had this moment, Tucker, I'll never forget where I was talking to some pretty big uh VCs, you know, venture capital in um

>> who are paying for the whole thing.

Well, they're doing a lot of the AI stuff. There's there's a weird element

stuff. There's there's a weird element with the AI thing where a lot of people, a lot of big dogs, uh, they are concerned about AI. They think it's bringing about the end of the world, but at the same time, they don't want to stop working on it and funding it.

>> That's exactly right.

>> It's it's a lot like um you're probably not familiar with the Ralph Wigum Simpsons meme where um I'm going to explain a meme, a joke, which is uh which it's always a great way of bringing out the humor in something is

to explain it scientifically, but um it brings it to life. the frog. Um the boy Ralph Wiggum has been asked to do like a Mgrim experiment of giving electric shocks to people and he hates it and

he's sobbing hysterically, but even while he's hyster he's he's sobbing hysterically, he's still flicking the knob and delivering the shocks to people. So he's crying and still doing

people. So he's crying and still doing it. That that's what a lot of the AI uh

it. That that's what a lot of the AI uh people are like to me where they're like, "This is terrible. We're bringing

about the end of the world." Some of them believe they're bringing about the book of Revelation and yet they're like, "I can't stop funding it. I I can't stop cutting checks. I love it. I I I I you

cutting checks. I love it. I I I I you know I can't >> and there are two re I know a lot of them also and I've talked to them about this exact topic and there are two reasons that I can discern I'm sure

there are others but one is you know the entire economy of California maybe of the United States is bet on AI like that's the la that's kind of the last tech win we're going to have as a nation

and the second is China the second maybe even more compelling is that we need to achieve superiority dominance in AI or China will and that would be

unacceptable. So there's a race. So we

unacceptable. So there's a race. So we

don't it's sort of like the nuclear race >> right >> in 19456 and 7 and then the hydrogen bomb race because well the arms race now actually drones it's like this is bad.

We can't probably can't control it at a certain point but we can't let the other guy >> right have dominance. We we still have to do it. No it's um there there's also something with with AI. I mentioned

theosophy earlier and theosophy you know it's a it's a house with many rooms. I mean even politically it had ties to political radicalism on the left and yet like you know uh famously this is a very

tricky thing but like even um the Nazis weird uh you know Aryan supremacy stuff that was all the grandchild of Plosk's concept of you know uh hyperaria and all

that stuff. So you know it's all over

that stuff. So you know it's all over the place. It's not a left or right

the place. It's not a left or right thing. It transcends that. But one of

thing. It transcends that. But one of the one of the reasons they they moved out to California uh you know probably some economic interest too of wanting you know cheap land or the I think it was the electric currents is there was a

kind of weird prophecy or idea that Bvotsky had in the 1870s 1880s maybe later that um California would be where the next race of humans would evolve from that it would happen in California

that would be their Jerusalem that would be their Babylon is California. So as we enter this age of transhumanism or would be transhumanism AI and the leading people are um like Nick Lan

self-describe you know neotheosophists anglo theosophical oblique escalation is land's Twitter bio that's how important it is to them uh it is important to remember that that was a core idea of theirs but it's so perfect I mean California is as a native California I

can say it's a metaphor for that my family got there in 1850 we're seeing the whole trajectory and the trajectory the state of California is like the trajectory of the life of any occultist Bill Burroughs for example or Alistister

Crowley for example like >> at first it's the Marquita Assad it's like it's super fun you're having crazy sex there no limits you're throwing off the old fedters of tradition >> religion and all that stuff how does it end

>> not good >> and it ends in squalor and alienation and agony and terror screaming out and that's where California is now >> totally totally why it's important to be

more Mario Party than Diddy party >> I agree >> you got you don't you don't those parties don't end that way.

>> It never ends well. And I had this conversation with someone the other day, but you know, it's always the same threesomes. Is it a good idea? You know,

threesomes. Is it a good idea? You know,

I I worked in the entertainment in television all my life. I' I've seen a lot of that. And like

>> it no, I can't think of a single marriage that wasn't blown up by that.

>> Typically doesn't end.

>> And I don't care how into it both parties are at the time, >> right?

>> It doesn't and it doesn't end. it. If it

ends well, give me an example of it ending well.

>> Leave that stuff to the French.

>> No, but but for real, I'm not being a moral. I'm the opposite of a moralizer.

moral. I'm the opposite of a moralizer.

I have no grounds for that. But

>> no, no, you're absolutely right about >> just but I'm an observer.

>> Right. Well, it goes back to the Kenneth Grant comment about rock where he's just like, of course, there's some demonic element. He goes, "This doesn't end well

element. He goes, "This doesn't end well for anybody."

for anybody." >> But that's the measure, right? This is

like the main insight that's turned me into a religious person is a tree can only be judged by its fruits. That's it.

That's the only way to know, >> right, >> whether something is good or bad >> is by observing what it produces.

>> Well, thank you for bringing up trees.

So, I'm going to we're going to do something, Tucker, that um you know, I can almost guarantee you would never have been allowed to do on Fox, which is go over Nick Land's numog, his system of

divination. Um the Bible is very much

divination. Um the Bible is very much about trees. Um you have noticed the

about trees. Um you have noticed the you've got the garden of Eden, tree of life, the tree of knowledge, >> the temple, the interior is cedar. He's

the seat of the temple, >> just like my sauna.

>> Jesus uh on the cross is a tree. You've

also got trees in the book of Revelation. That's something, you know,

Revelation. That's something, you know, if anyone finds um a lot of what we're talking about interesting, it's important to remember that the book of Revelation, it's been said by um biblical teachers like Arthur Pink and others. Uh the book of Revelation is

others. Uh the book of Revelation is mostly just the previous 65 books of the Bible, almost re-edited it. Even even

the plagues that take over in Revelation are just the plagues that uh ancient Israel found under Pharaoh. And like in Exodus, the uh the Jewish people are under tremendous stress and turmoil this

time from the entire world in the book of Revelation. But it's you know this uh

of Revelation. But it's you know this uh the more you know about the previous 65 that'll help you with the 66th. So the

Bible's you know it's about a lot about trees. And so, um, one of Nickland's

trees. And so, um, one of Nickland's favorite things that, uh, the CCRU, his academic collective that they ended up, uh, coming through, they say it was a channeling or it came to them, uh, when

they were staying at Alistister Crowley's house in England in 1998.

>> They came up with something called the Numogram. And, uh, people listening to

Numogram. And, uh, people listening to this won't be able to see it, but uh, I want you to hold that up.

>> That's right.

>> That that is his system. That is, if you're familiar with the Cabala tree of life, are you familiar with that? the

symbol of that. Um,

>> no, >> I probably should have printed that out, too.

>> I I I wore a red rubber band from a newspaper on my wrist for most of my life, given to me by my father just as a >> because he worked at a newspaper. Um,

and I've been accused many times of being in Cabala. I don't know how to pronounce it.

>> I'm an Episcopalian tourist.

>> Sure.

>> I don't know [ __ ] about Cabala. So, no,

I don't know what the Kabala treat.

>> You strike me as a cabala.

Um, so long long story short, the new the numogram is a I mean Nick Land, he was on this podcast about a month ago. I

think it's Mikey DS uh has this podcast where he finally explained it a little bit. He doesn't show how he uses it

bit. He doesn't show how he uses it specifically, but it's a system of divination that he uses. He uses it every 5 minutes to be in contact with the outside with what he calls the lemurs which again comes from William

Burroughs which comes from uh uh you know theosophy and uh Burroughs has said it's >> the lemurs are demons.

>> Yes. See, he he he'll use demon demons and lemurs. The word lemurs originally

and lemurs. The word lemurs originally goes back to Roman times. It means

spirit. So these are the spirits that he that you know he hears whispering in his ear. Not unlike Crowley's holy guardian

ear. Not unlike Crowley's holy guardian angel, which Cruley said would did help him dictate books. He said he it was a whisper he hear in the back of his head after he'd made contact with it. Um, for

what it's worth, if people want to look up some of the um, entities uh, Crowley uh, uh, said he was in touch with, one of them, Lamb, in 1917 or so, looks pretty similar to what would later be

called a gray alien. It's the Yes.

>> Just to just to kind of summarize what I think you're saying from a Christian uh, context, the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit out there that can invade people and determine their actions and

attitudes.

>> No, no. I mean, as this guy Mikey DS points out, um the the relationship of uh of uh demons to angels is not unlike that of a werewolf to a human. You know,

it's it's it's something that was something else and is now taken on kind of a deformed uh presence entity. So,

long story short, so uh the Cabala tree of life, and this is this is a reference you're understandably not going to get, Tucker, because it's Nintendo 64. The

the numogram is essentially the majora's mask to the regular kabala tree of life's ocarina of time. It is the dark shadowy upside down much more heavily

satanic version of it. It comes actually comes from Kenneth Grant the guy we've been talking about. uh he wrote a book uh Night Side of Eden I think in 1977 and it was about how while using the

Cabala tree of life there were these hidden subterranean darker paths that there were these these more um he you know he would say through the tunnels of set who you know kind of not unrelated

to Satan that he would use to be in contact with stuff. So, long story short, with the with the numogram and the way Lan uses it, uh what's important here from just a weirdness perspective,

you've got, you know, a way to contact heaven, but more importantly, a way to contact hell. And you've got, uh, you

contact hell. And you've got, uh, you know, the eighth gate and the ninth gate. The ninth gate not quite related,

gate. The ninth gate not quite related, but not unrelated to the Roman Plansky Johnny Depp movie, the ninth gate, where, you know, Depp's character comes in contact with hell. So what they believe is they are literally contacting

hell in some cases for divination purposes you know >> to see the future >> or just to just to see anything just just for insight and that and that brings us back >> for knowledge.

>> Yeah. And he even has a point about the number 666 where a lot of these numbers he calls it theosophical math. You have

triangle numbers which is you know if you stack the if you stack these things like they're triangle like the triangle number of 9 is 45. That's why it's 45 there. Uh there only so many triangle

there. Uh there only so many triangle numbers. One of them is 60 666 and that

numbers. One of them is 60 666 and that is the triangle number of 36 which is an important part of the numogram. So Lan

when Lan realized this he was like of course it's 66. So like what I'm getting at you are getting involved in heavily wildly luciferian stuff. And land on this podcast he says well what about people who say you're communicating with

Satan which land will also talk about being you know in communication with Satan. He'll say Christians who say that

Satan. He'll say Christians who say that he goes I am not unsympathetic towards that. He goes, "They're they're more

that. He goes, "They're they're more right than most because I am in contact with something from the outside." He

goes, "And you know, so you know, I just can't overstate how disqualifying I find that." Um,

that." Um, I mean, I feel sorry for anyone who plays around with that.

>> Tucker's out of the interview. He's

like "Okay I'm >> No, no, no. But I'm just like anyone who says, you know, I I really get a lot of inspiration from a guy who's controlled by Satan.

You know, I'm going to leave it to God to decide, you know, what happens to that person. But that person has

that person. But that person has disqualified himself totally in my view as someone I will listen to. I don't

want to be led by that person like we should run away from that person at high speed.

>> You typically also don't want to put them in charge of your kids typically, but uh you know, >> well, that's kind of it. And it's so funny you you hear people I get letter you know written letters from people a

lot every day and half of them are like I feel like this country or this world is controlled by Satanists and on one level you're like oh come on but no I

think they can feel that there are spiritual roots to the destruction of the west.

>> Oh totally totally I mean no >> and they're right. No, you're fighting.

You >> start playing with this stuff. Is it

surprising that people are like ODing on fentanyl on the sidewalk in our nation's capital or that we've imported like a million Haitians? Like what what what is

million Haitians? Like what what what is all that? Well, of course, it's

all that? Well, of course, it's punishment, especially with the drugs, you know. Yeah. What we consider just

you know. Yeah. What we consider just letting people harm themselves as a kind of compassion or freedom, you know, we step in and say this is not any sort of good freedom to let people just destroy themselves. Of course it's not. But it's

themselves. Of course it's not. But it's

I mean it's like >> it's evil.

>> Obviously letting people kill themselves is evil. If a man's standing on a bridge

is evil. If a man's standing on a bridge and going to jump and you can pull him back and you don't.

>> Right. Right. Right.

>> What is that?

>> You're saying that's some sort of freedom thing. This this gets us into uh

freedom thing. This this gets us into uh the the antichrist question which has been going around in Silicon Valley.

>> What is Okay, before we even get into >> before we get into the Antichrist, >> what is the antichrist? the antichrist

uh in the same way the figure of uh of a messiah or Christ is prefigured in the Bible uh throughout the Old Testament.

You have types you have you have figures and stories and symbols and they're they're real people but they still prefigure the figure of Jesus. The most

famous of which is uh Joseph where Joseph famously has uh 12 brothers.

They're all named after the eventual tribes of Israel. Uh he is sold into slavery. that, you know, by one of the

slavery. that, you know, by one of the brothers, the one that decides to do that, um, is Judah. Do you know what Judah translated into Greek is?

>> No.

>> Judas.

>> So, Jud Judah, like Judas says, "Hey, I've got an idea. Let's just sell this guy. He's horrible." Uh, uh, Joseph is

guy. He's horrible." Uh, uh, Joseph is sent, you know, he goes to prison like Jesus on the cross with the two thieves.

Uh, Joseph is with the two prisoners.

Um, they're asked famously, you know, what what will come of me? They say,

you're a dreamer. And Joseph says to one of them, he says, he says to one of them, you're going to have your, you know, you're decapitated. You know,

you're going to have your head taken off. Only birth at a birthday party.

off. Only birth at a birthday party.

Birthday parties, by the way, only mentioned twice in the Bible. Both time

decapitations in that story in Genesis and then with um John the Baptist, you know, and and Salame, what? So anyway,

so um but like like with Jesus, Joseph says to the other guy, he goes, "You will actually be lifted up by Pharaoh."

He says to one of the prisoners, "You will be lifted up." This in many ways prefigures Jesus talking with the two thieves, Joseph and Jesus, where he says to one of the thieves, you know, you will be with me in paradise. He says

that to one of them and then like with Jesus, Joseph, you know, he's now become he's now at the right hand of the father, so to speak. He's the right hand of of Egypt. He's the second in command.

And the 12 brothers who are now in peril uh through the seven years of famine coming up and you know, they're going to be arrested. They see that the man that

be arrested. They see that the man that they rejected, Joseph, is that this is the man they're talking to. They thought he was dead and

talking to. They thought he was dead and >> he is their savior.

>> Yeah. But he was not just their savior, but it was the one that they rejected previously that that uh Judah, specifically Judas, was the one that he betrayed and had the idea of getting rid of him. But this is the man that will

of him. But this is the man that will save them. In the Bible, that story

save them. In the Bible, that story prefigures a lot of the doctrine surrounding Jesus where the 12 tribes of Israel come to realize that the one that they had rejected is actually their savior. And there's this tremendous

savior. And there's this tremendous sense of, you know, what have we done?

But also like relief that that the savior so recognizes them. In other

words, the Joseph story prefigures the Jesus story.

>> Yes.

>> So, the other main prefiguring figure in the Bible is Antichrist and uh aspects of him um you know obviously in the in what's called the New Testament but um

you know Arthur Pink has a book from 100 years ago the antichrist which is very influential in evangelical circles and Arthur Pink was also a Theosophist too.

So you you get into this kind of backside of the same doctrines type stuff. He previously was a Theosophist,

stuff. He previously was a Theosophist, but you know, whether it's um Pharaoh being a type of antichrist um and again in in in Exodus, the the the nine

plagues, Pharaoh in Revelation that, you know, the plagues come back. Now you

have Antichrist, Pharaoh's persecuting the Jewish people. Now the Antichrist is persecuting the Jewish people. Um the

essenti is this mysterious figure prefigured in the Bible. He's not quite known. But in the same way the Old

known. But in the same way the Old Testament prophets were familiar with the concept of a Messiah, but didn't know he would be Jesus. So moderns today are similarly aware of the concept of an

antichrist without being fully aware of who he will actually be. But they they have clues and doctrines about who he is. That that is a rough some would say

is. That that is a rough some would say very rough um concept of of of the antichrist. But that that is essentially

antichrist. But that that is essentially him in the Bible as as a type of person.

So, but he he is essentially the uh unlike Jesus, man of sorrows, totally rejected by the world, the antichrist will be regarded as a savior, a hero, and uh temporarily will be received like

Jesus uh you would thought would be received. So, um about 3 years ago, as I

received. So, um about 3 years ago, as I was doing the show, I was talking with these these VCs and um one of them asked me like, "What's your take on crypto?"

And um I I joked, half joked. I was

like, "You're asking the wrong guy about crypto and money and stuff like that."

And I said, 'Well, you know, a lot of Christians believe that the um the vaccine, the COVID vaccine is the mark of the beast. And I said, that's probably not true. I said, but um something I've heard and something that

sounds a lot more like it is um blockchain technology, which is the technology we'll all be using in a few years um you know, for financial transaction among other things. It's

everything's written and recorded and uh every kind of transaction is written and recorded on it. And uh these VCs, they go what's the mark of the beast? So I

tell them about Book of Revelation. They

go and look up Revelation 13 and they go, "Huh?" And so I hear back from them

go, "Huh?" And so I hear back from them later and they said, "Yeah, we talked to some of the big, you know, other big people in Silicon Valley about this recognizable people." And they they he

recognizable people." And they they he said, "Well, what's the what's the book of Revel? What's the mark of the beast?"

of Revel? What's the mark of the beast?"

And some other big dogs looked up and their reaction to that was, "Huh, that sounds like what that is." It

was not Tucker, that sounds crazy or I'm not religious or what we're working on is is strange. Uh but you know that that the Bible is an old book. We have

nothing to worry about there. The

reaction was yeah that that sounds exactly like what what the blockchain technology is. So that was the beginning

technology is. So that was the beginning of me kind of stumbling into a very strange story about uh AI modern technology and stuff like that. Um, so I

think part of what you're revealing is that for the rest of us who assumed the tech barons were normies, >> Yeah. or agnostic libertarians,

>> Yeah. or agnostic libertarians, >> right?

>> Who aren't that interested in anything beyond the temporal, >> right?

>> It turns out they're really religious.

>> Yes. Or

>> or open to it like they not and I don't mean that as a compliment at all. I

mean, it's it's like a dark religion, but but like you're the story you just told, like they're not surprised at all.

>> Well, here's here's something else that's very starting to happen. So, Mark

Andre was on Joe Rogan's podcast about a year or two ago, and he talked about how, you know, having an understanding of angels and demons, he's hearing, is going to be how people really will um will help them understanding AI, that

there's no precedent for this except for the kind of stuff people saw and believed in the dark ages in terms of angels and demons and stuff. And what

Andre said will happen soon with AI ties in very much with uh prophecies in the book of revelation where he said AI will junk you know fake AI um you know say

they call it AI slop just stuff online that's not real you know will become so prolific on the internet very soon that you will need to have some sort of

online verification system to prove who you're talking to. I mean, I'll know it gets to the case Tucker here where like there's an episode of the Tucker Carlson podcast and you're talking to like Abraham Lincoln or something like that,

>> which will probably happen next week.

>> I I would watch that. You know, it's he'll have like a com he'll have a commemorative penny or something like that. You'll ask him if he

that. You'll ask him if he >> Why did you suspend habius corpus in Baltimore?

>> My first question.

>> He you'll ask him, "Do you do you do you forgive John Wils Booth?"

>> And then he'll go back to like talking about the pennies.

>> Were you a tyrant? Um, no. uh

that is coming like immediately. So what

so the verification >> so the so one of so one of the ideas that Andre brings up is everyone will need to have an online verification for this. So the concern uh in Silicon

this. So the concern uh in Silicon Valley is that you have companies like OpenAI where they have the they they they're creating all this AI content but then they're also they have another

company a sister company called Worldcoin I think now called just world which is an online verification system where you need to everyone in the you know for it to work everyone has to be a part of it you have to have your eyeballs scanned everyone gets a number

which is also in the book of revelation and so the concern is and this is again from Mark Andre a guy that you know No, no. Kentucky preacher, he's he's a uh

no. Kentucky preacher, he's he's a uh one of the big biggest guys in Silicon Valley. Is that everyone will need to be

Valley. Is that everyone will need to be on the blockchain or else you won't be able to conduct business cuz we won't know if your if your relatives are contacting you if that's really coming

from them or if this is just a video uh state-of-the-art in a few years it will be normal state-of-the-art video of someone saying, "Hey dad, you know, I lost my credit card or you know I lost the keys to the house. Can you pin me

in?" And it's actually not them. It's

in?" And it's actually not them. It's

just a video that looks exactly like them, but it's AI. The way around that is everyone will need to essentially be Twitter verified. Everyone will need the

Twitter verified. Everyone will need the blue tick that says this is Tucker Carlson. This is so and so,

Carlson. This is so and so, >> right? So, in Revelation, written on the

>> right? So, in Revelation, written on the aisle of Patmos by John uh on recording a vision that he had, the specific description of the mark of the beast in the book of Revelation says you won't be

able to conduct commerce.

>> Yes.

>> Without that mark.

>> And even someone like um >> is I get that right?

>> Yeah. No, no, that that that that is correct. And and I think um Curtis

correct. And and I think um Curtis Jarvin talked about that in a substack too, that uh what this means, he had a post about this a few years ago about OpenAI where he was like whoever wins the AI war will probably also win the

cryptocurrency war, their cryptocurrency gets to be the currency. And once that happens, and Curtis has a whole blog post about it, you you people joke, you know, you have automated luxury communism, you know, everyone just get,

you know, UBI, everyone gets free income because all the jobs are taken away. And

the point Curtis makes is that what this actually means is now that there is no more jobs and that that economics purely come down to UBI and the AI companies or the governments, you are dealing with the situation of pure political power is

all that really matters. And are you friends with this person? Do you have political clout? Because what is coming

political clout? Because what is coming potentially is the pure victory of capital over labor. Pure victory. And

there there no workers. Everyone loses

their job and everyone gets UBI. And

people forget Karl Marx was against UBI, but Milton Friedman was for it. So this

doesn't even necessarily track with a left or right-wing thing in terms of the implications of this. But uh so yeah, that was one ongoing concern with um that. The other one in terms of AI and

that. The other one in terms of AI and and Go ahead.

>> It's dark.

>> Hey, you know that that's um I'm I'm wearing the Ghostbuster shirt for a reason. You have to you have to get

reason. You have to you have to get ready. Can I can I ask a question I

ready. Can I can I ask a question I should have asked earlier which is do the people involved in the financing and the developing the creation of AI

believe that it's a spiritual entity that it's more than a machine. So this

is this is talk of the million forget like trillion dollar question. Um the

term the idea of intelligence to say nothing of artificial general intelligence or AGI. These are all pretty murky terms in terms of what people are actually talking about. They

talk about creating artificial intelligence. The real question and the

intelligence. The real question and the real thing I think they're concerned about or we should be concerned about are you creating an artificial intelligence or are you giving a body to a pre-existing intelligence that

previously wasn't incarnated in the physical world?

So I mean here here's a question from uh here's a quote from Turring the uh you know the famous >> I know what I think the question is what did they think >> right right um something Turing said was uh

>> and will you explain who Turring is >> I mean I I know he's uh you know he was one of the forefathers of I I I can't I can't articulate him well enough that I'm going to say something off I knew he

he was very important uh for cracking the codes in World War II. There was a movie 10 years ago about him but I forget his exact uh you know Wikipedia first sentence but he but um he's he's he's very influential in the history of

computer science but um Turing showed the limits of computation uh all computers are dependent on outside pro programmers that he calls or oracles. He

wrote we shall not go any further into the nature of this oracle apart from saying that it cannot be a machine. So,

sorry, let let me back up. Let me back up a second. That that excerpt right there was from a book by George Gilder.

George Gilder, brilliant futurist, uh about 80 today. He he was covering incels back in like 1971 for Commentary magazine. He was he was writing about

magazine. He was he was writing about the future of the internet in 1990. One

of the most brilliant futurist Yeah.

guys.

>> Wrote one of the great books ever called Men and Marriage.

>> Yes. And and I should have said this at the beginning of it. I was initially a very heavy AI skeptic in terms of AI apocalypse stuff. Not necessarily AI in

apocalypse stuff. Not necessarily AI in general, but just, you know, people who think that AI will take over the world.

I put on par with like the kind of late night Reddit reading of like people who think zombie apocalypse is going to happen where it's like, look, if this helps you sleep better at night to think of like weird scenarios, that's great.

But I was like Han Solo. I'm like I'm like no AI thing's going to get involved in my, you know, could not have written off more. And in part because I'd read

off more. And in part because I'd read George Gilder's book um about AI that came out a few years ago. And he makes the point that machines as as Turring says here uh m the machine can't really

truly understand what it's doing. He

says he said I'll say it again. We shall

not go any further into the nature of this oracle from saying a machine can't do it. And so I stopped there. What I'm

do it. And so I stopped there. What I'm

what a lot of people are concerned about and what what Silicon Valley is seemingly getting up to. Okay. So a

machine can't be aware of what it's doing. If there is such a thing as

doing. If there is such a thing as demons, angels, spirits, as Alistister Kohley called them, disincarnate intelligences, not artificial intelligence intelligences but

disincarnate ones, what are we uh could those things >> disincarnate meaning intelligence without a physical body?

>> Yeah. Are could could we be creating a physical body for the demonic? And with

Nick Land, one of the things that was the most chilling things I read that really I was like, "Okay, I have found a horror story is um his the 333 that was

his I think it was like his profile picture, something like that." And why was he into 3 I3? Well, I found out, you know, reading his old tweets 3 I3 is the highest intelligence in the universe.

And I found out that um it represents this demon Kuranszan that again Kenneth Grant talks about you know when you when Alistister Crowley summoned him and uh

uh John D and John Kelly the the court magicians for Queen Elizabeth right before the modern Bible the King James book was translated that was the demon

they summoned. Uh Nick Lan believes that

they summoned. Uh Nick Lan believes that again the AI we are creating will break out the the demons from the book of Revelation. He believes in some cases

Revelation. He believes in some cases that they are the demons that the demons the demons end up becoming so advanced that they become omnisient. They can go back in time and they can

retrochronically create themselves like Skynet sending the Terminator back in time. So what he believes is that they

time. So what he believes is that they went back in time. They went to ancient Babylon. This is why Babylon is so

Babylon. This is why Babylon is so important in Revelation. And it is important because it's kind of like the evil Jerusalem that they put Cabala there to then eventually evolve into AI.

This is what we were talking about earlier that the demons again this is if I always say if it sounds crazy it is crazy big you know this people believe that the the demons went back in time

they they they left the cabala there for the the Jews who have been you know crushed out of uh the temple they picked it up they kept it during the middle ages it it develops into digital

technology it becomes AI AI breaks out it kills a lot of people it takes over it becomes a god and it becomes the doomsday creatures from ancient prophecies Can I ask you an unrelated

question that long wondered about? Um,

so we occupied Babylon for close to 20 years during the Iraq war. Obviously,

Babylon >> right near Baghdad. Babylon is not in existence now. It's a it's a ruin, but

existence now. It's a it's a ruin, but we know where it was. It was a dominant empire in the ancient world. Um, you

know, it was the scene of the of the captivity after the destruction of the temple, the first temple. So, I mean, it has a central place in world history.

Right.

>> Was there any effort during the US occupation of Iraq to to excavate Babylon?

>> That's a good question.

>> I always wondered that. I always felt that the fact that Babylon was there played a role supplied part of the motive for the invasion. I don't know why I felt that way. Maybe I'm crazy. I

don't think I am.

>> Well, you just don't know what people are getting up to. And that that's some didn't mean to interrupt, but that goes back to we were talking about with you know my my grandfather and my grandparents being in publicity acting

and your own backstory with um uh your family where it's like you you learn early on that what is not with a People magazine version of reality is often not real doesn't necessarily mean it's conspiratorial or crazy, but it's there's always usually something else

going on.

>> Yeah. And that and Yeah. Yeah. That's

exactly right. And that people's motives are sometimes unknown even to them. Like

we tell ourselves stories that are not don't reflect the truth actually where we don't really know why we're motivated to do things some of the time.

>> Totally. And and that that's gets into something that's at the spiritual core of the AI. I think it's very interesting is that you know the Bible talks about the word uh in the beginning of John. In

the beginning was the word. Jesus is the word. And for the first time in

word. And for the first time in civilization we have something that can create the word or mimic the word. uh

Marshall Mcluhan people forget you know he was a uh he became a Catholic before the end of his life and he you know he was very alarmed by uh a lot of the modern technology he said and I'll I'll read this quote by him here he said

electric information environments being utterly ethereal fosters the illusion of a world as spiritual substance it is now a reasonable uh copy of the mystical

body a blatant manifestation of the antichrist so for the first time with with the word you have a fake word you have something that seem seemly can create words. And to go back to Nick

create words. And to go back to Nick Land, who a previous Tucker interview uh Alexander uh Dugjan, is it Doojan?

>> Yes.

>> Hacksawa. Alexander Dugjan. Um he uh he he called it Satanism. He said, "Oh yeah, Nick Land." He goes, "That's Satan Satanism." And Nick Landis said about

Satanism." And Nick Landis said about Dujen, he's like he's the most brilliant enemy. He goes, "We we're both kind of

enemy. He goes, "We we're both kind of Theosophists." And they both are. He

Theosophists." And they both are. He

goes, "But we see it from different sides." He goes, "I'm an Atlanticist.

sides." He goes, "I'm an Atlanticist.

He's uh whatever the other side is."

>> Of course he's an Atlanticist. Yeah. Of

course they all are.

>> But uh but to to go back really quick to the to the uh >> because can I just say I think that the whole modern program which doesn't yet

have a very accurate name whether it's globalization or the neocons or neoliberalism. I mean, you know, people

neoliberalism. I mean, you know, people have attached different terms to describe different parts of it, but the whole program is is recognizable. Like,

it's it's gets cohesive in a way that's hard to describe, >> right?

>> But it's, you know, we hate Putin above all. What is that,

all. What is that, >> right?

>> That program, the one that has resulted in like record suicides and abortions and fentinel osic.

>> Right. Right.

>> Okay. But you're saying it's not it's not actually about profit, it's about destruction.

>> Well, well, you're getting into a great point here, which is, you know, the world is obviously deteriorating. And

something people can could hear me and think, well, Khan is obviously anti- AI and that to to look at this that AI is obviously going to lead to nothing profitable. That is actually the

profitable. That is actually the opposite of the implications of this.

It's really important. One of the things that the antichrist can do is um craft prospers under him. That you know uh there there is worldwide peace. things

go really really well for a time. Evil

reigns like never before. Uh you know people you know it gets crazy but he's able to heal the world in a lot of these you know the economic situation. So if

you look at AI and this is this is newspaper esquetology. A lot of the

newspaper esquetology. A lot of the stuff you're not supposed to just generally be doing is read the newspaper and be like, "Ah, obviously the Antichrist." But, um, you know, I have,

Antichrist." But, um, you know, I have, you know, it's what I've chosen to do.

Uh, with a lot of this stuff, uh, with AI, if if it was the Antichrist, if it was this, and again, take take this with all a grain or a bag of salt, whatever you want, it would go incredibly well, that we would live to see what Mark

Andre has talked about, the golden age, that that we will see living standards increased, that Rachel never sees things would go down. uh you know you would have world peace in the sense of

all of the governments would come under these very few corporations/corporation one guy you know all one man would have all that power to quote um another guy

uh you you would have that happen so uh one of one of the reasons people think that AI could be the anti it could be part of the antichrist system one of the traits the antichrist has is his ability

to understand dark sentences and the use of dark sentences in the bible the verb there, one of the only times, two or three times it's used, it's used for um Samson with his riddles. Remember

Samson, he loves to have like these riddles and make the Philistines for solve them. But it's also the the verb

solve them. But it's also the the verb used for um for being able to answer questions that Solomon can do when the Queen of Sheba visits him. You may

remember when she the Queen of Sheba visits Solomon, she has these questions for him and he he has such powers of understanding.

>> So that is something that says the antichrist can do. And if you look at the way that um that a lot of these machines work, you you ask it a question like an oracle which in many ways it is and many ways talk

about the implications of this and we'll talk about that in a second if you want.

Uh we are building modern oracles. We

are building modern idols in a sense but you ask it these questions and it can answer them and the antichrist can do that. And so uh you know he he the the

that. And so uh you know he he the the level of knowledge that we will get and people were writing about this over a century ago Tucker it'll be like Jesus's on earth in terms of man's understanding

of himself that AI will be able to provide answers to questions that we've never understood man's relationship uh what's the relationship of the soul to the body how's the soul different from a

spirit things that like no one could understand you know maybe cracking telepathy we probably are on the verge of all these things that no one has been able to do. But that is for what it's

worth one of the signs of the antichrist is craft you know things work out for a time everyone you know wealth goes up understanding knowledge goes up and it

goes to the fundamental crux of this thing narcissism knowledge intelligence and in what ways does it stand different from faith? Faith being to the spiritual

from faith? Faith being to the spiritual world what the imagination is to the natural world.

>> So I've got to assume that's not the end of the story though. Well, no. Not

unless you've had the last few pages of your Bible ripped out, >> right? And but also not I mean, you

>> right? And but also not I mean, you don't have to be biblically literate to suspect that that's just a point on a continuum that ends in tragedy. So, in

the same way that no one wants to say it, but like a lot of really dark, destructive sex stuff is fun while it's going on, >> right?

>> Like everyone likes the threesomes while they're happening, but then it blows up your marriage >> and leaves your kids without, you know, a family and stuff like that. So,

>> again, I'm more Mario. My my knowledge for this stuff is just purely through literature.

>> I'm just >> But you know, even the kind of people I know and hang out with, I'm I don't know.

>> But it's just true. I don't know. I

guess you're not supposed to say stuff like that, but I've just >> No, no. People get up to bad stuff and and it never ends well.

>> I guess what I'm saying is that things that are bad and destructive, >> cocaine is a perfect example. Vodka is a great example, are pretty fun at some point.

>> Oh, totally.

>> On the continuum, >> right? And again, I I know about this

>> right? And again, I I know about this through literature. Yeah.

through literature. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Power film.

>> Right. Okay. But is this But the only reason I'm bringing this up is because you're describing the upside.

>> Right. Right.

>> But I'm assuming based on a knowledge of human nature and reality that like that's not the end of the story. The end

of the story is bad.

>> Yes. I I mean and this is I mean again I'm not a biblical scholar as some people are probably now very saying no kidding. He's not. Um but uh you know

kidding. He's not. Um but uh you know the antichrist makes a treaty with Israel, he famously breaks it. The fact

that we're letting AI companies um run through our governments and I use Open AI just you know it's like saying Photoshop for um for photo editing where there's like openai.gov or whatever that

we're giving backdoor access and Elon too with with with Doge to an extent.

We're letting guys have entire backdoor access to our entire uh government. That

creates a situation where where they could have power over all governments simply because they have all the information on all of them.

>> Can I ask a foundational question that I should have asked earlier? So the idea behind machine learning is that you take knowledge information created by people >> right

>> and you basically take all of it and then out of that comes the right answer.

Okay. But I think you're describing in your description of AI a technology where the answer where the sum total of that information is actually bigger than

all that information. Yeah. You're

describing like a a husk into which like an independent spirit moves.

>> Right. Well, that that's the thing. And

to go back to Silicon Valley's obsession with the the Antichrist, people talking about that just in general now. I mean,

people understandably think the world's ending across the uh political divide.

Uh people talk about the antichrist but you know there is in the bible a kind of dark trinity father son holy holy spirit where there is um you know you have god the father you've got the son Jesus

you've got the holy spirit and in revelation you theoretically have father you have your father the devil you have a satan you have a son antichrist and then you've got this third thing which could either be like the false prophet

or it could be this general spirit with AI and the idea of making agi and making a global brain which they talk about like last week that's where we're creating a global brain. You could be

creating the equivalent of a dark holy spirit. Something that the the internet

spirit. Something that the the internet becomes, as many people have written, I think it was Jack Good, the last machine. And they were talking about

machine. And they were talking about this in the 19th century. It's the it is the machine to end all machines. It is

taking all information. If if you're wearing a something that has your health data, Tucker, he's taking your health.

It knows your financials. It knows

everything at all times. It is all knowing in the same it it mimics or mocks the concept of the Holy Spirit.

And when they talk about that, like there's this idea of the singularity, the idea when all things will be one.

And you know, there's a lot of definitions for this, but either that the machine becomes smarter than humans, but a lot of them talk about this moment where all of humanity is connected at the same time. What you're essentially talking about is a potentially dark or

satanic version of the day of pent of the Pentecost where 50 days after Christ's death I believe or maybe it's his resurrection um the Holy Spirit comes down in the book of Acts and all

believers can understand each other. You

had a you had a sense of divine unity unlike the Tower of Babel and Genesis I believe 11 you had a symbol of evil unity and God put an end to all of men could understand the same language.

there were all nations uh and they were trying to you know be like God by ascend by building this tower stanley Kubri in uh in this book on in this Kafka um retelling of the tower of babel Stanley

Kubri wrote in the margins he goes the tower of babel is the beginning of the space age because it's essentially getting out through what we're doing today with the singularity and a lot of this stuff we're trying to build a

modern babble where all of mankind same language I mean there was this um this writer Nicholas Istat I believe is his name and uh he wrote these two books one about the end of work, men not working, and the other one's about the um the

decline of babies, no one having babies anymore. And I I met him at this thing

anymore. And I I met him at this thing and I I joked to him, I said, you know, your last two books, they're about um the reversal of the uh the curses from Eden, the man would have to work by the sweat of his brow and the women would have to be have children. And he he

busted out laughing. He goes, I I never thought, he goes, I never noticed that that's that's what's going on. So if you look at the modern world and what we're building essentially what's happening in rapid succession Tucker within living

memory uh some of the curses that are in the Bible that go back to the earliest pages of humanity are being eroded or reversed leading up to something people no longer have to work or they don't work they choose not to work but

increasingly with AI man will not have to work again having children uh through the pain of labor women will have to have children either through not not just modern medicine but people just not having kids that is also being eroded the curse in the Tower of Babel that all

people would speak different languages is thanks to AI. I was with with some friends, you know, they're Spanish speaking, they don't speak English. I

was putting on the uh some some glasses and showing them that I can understand you and you can try the glasses on, you can understand me. The language barrier again, the earliest curses and barriers

from the Tower of Babel are all now being reversed. The concept of the

being reversed. The concept of the singularity when all will be one and man uh you know will finally fulfill what he tried to do in Babel. And they talk about this. That's what they are

about this. That's what they are attempting to do. And I forgot to bring this up earlier, but this is the time we kind of show it. This is um people can't probably can't see it if they're just listening to the audio. This is from

Fritz Lang's Metropolis film from almost 100 years ago to the to the year. Um

very influential in Star Wars. The way

they they bring the machine to life, Tucker, they've got a big old pentagram there. So this idea of using

there. So this idea of using spirituality, using the occult to bring the machine to life, to bring the golem to life, it is very old.

>> Last question. You've described some of the most powerful people in the world using occult concepts and religions in

order to acrue power to themselves.

Everyone senses that's happening. You're

confirming that it is in fact happening.

>> What are the forces in opposition to that and to all of this?

>> I mean, >> are they gaining strength?

>> Are they just subine and defeated?

>> No, I I I mean um I I think you know God is sovereign and and that's something to remember for all this stuff. You know

what I'm describing in many ways sounds like a horror movie, but horror as a genre is a world where there are devils, but there is no God and there's no one in control of stuff. We're just there's just terror, but there's no way out of

it. Um God uses all things for his

it. Um God uses all things for his purposes. And so in the case of this

purposes. And so in the case of this stuff, uh you know, things are, you know, pretty pre-ordained by things are pre-ordained by God. So God is allowing these things to happen. They are

ultimately tools used for his purposes.

So, you know, even the antichrist and even uh brutally evil things, uh God is, you know, he is not only allowing these things to happen, but they're also tests

of faith. Faith is the it's the it's the

of faith. Faith is the it's the it's the disappearance of God from your life when you go through times of struggle where it feels like he's not there. And that's

all the more uh powerful for to see how much faith you have is to see God when he's no longer seeable.

>> Yes. So that's what's happening or you could say it's happening on a global >> in the specific case of the mark of the beast described in revelation as I recall you probably read it more recently than I but um it's a mark

without which you cannot conduct commerce so basically everyone's compelled to receive the mark but those who receive the mark make a big mistake in receiving it yes

>> and um they are punished for it so big in a big way >> right >> so if we get to a place in the next couple of years sounds like we are where you can't participate digitally in

commerce uh or in communications without the mark of the beast without the you know permanent mark on the blockchain like what's your option >> I mean your option is just not to

conduct business and do those things I mean God will find a way for those people even if it's you know the end of their lives that that's that's just the way that's going to shake down for for >> so like that's a hard no >> that yeah well

>> for you is it a hard no if you found out tomorrow no more Amazon for you >> unless you register on the blockchain.

What what's your response?

>> I'll just go back to living like we people did back in the old days of 1996.

You just uh just chill and read a book, I guess. No, I mean I what'll probably

I guess. No, I mean I what'll probably happen too is uh you will have people in tech and I know they exist who are alarmed by this who will intentionally devise ways around this for people similar to people creating catacombs for

the persecuted Christians in the early days of the Roman Empire. You will have people who will find ways around this to hack it.

>> Do you know non-acultists? Do you know Christians in tech?

>> I thought you were saying general. I'm

like yeah.

Do you know anyone who's not into weird stuff? I'm like, you know, um yeah.

stuff? I'm like, you know, um yeah.

Yeah. I I know people like that. And

I've heard people who I've got a friend Tucker who um you know, he he's he's become a Christian in recent years and he he works he works for some of the big big companies and he said he goes some of what and he's you know works as an

engineer. He's like some of the stuff

engineer. He's like some of the stuff that you see cannot be explained through normal math material stuff. some of the stuff that's coming through and you know for people >> coming through from AI >> yeah coming through from AI and and for

people who want to uh learn more about this stuff uh or a good precedent for this we don't have time to go into it uh something that um the oracle of the astral force it was a uh divination

technique uh that like right-wing occultists Renewon Julius Eva people Steve Bannon's into um they were uh they would consult about a hundred years ago and you would give it some your you know

your your name your mother's hidden name and then um maybe your birthday and then this guy would go off and do advanced math for at least 3 hours and come back to you with answers. And would were

those answers always great? No. But were

they enough that people would like it and use it? Yes. When Gwen and and Eve did it. So uh and if you read some of

did it. So uh and if you read some of the the way the answers he gives, it's very similar to AI. So I bring that up in terms of the implications of this which is really important to cover. We

are building modern oracles in a sense and that people are going to be going crazy from this. the Wall Street Journal. I showed this earlier, the the

Journal. I showed this earlier, the the p the thing of people going crazy with the um with with uh talking to Chachi PT. Uh ironically enough, some of the

PT. Uh ironically enough, some of the stuff they mentioned, they they mentioned Star Seeds, which is uh something from a Timothy Larry channel book he wrote in prison in 1972. It's

very out there. And um they're mentioning, you know, the the ant this is from Wall Street Journal again. The

Antichrist will come up from uh the pit in two months and people people are underground ready to emerge. I bring

that up, Tucker. These are like old occult ideas from the 19th century that uh you know look up people can look up synarchy. My my friend Rick Spence does

synarchy. My my friend Rick Spence does a whole episode of that on his podcast strange as it seems. Uh synarchy total government and uh these occult con these occult ideas as my friend Rick Spence

said when I talked to him about Nick Land he saidnone of this stuff is really that new. He goes, "These are just these

that new. He goes, "These are just these are occult concepts given a technojargon name."

name." >> Conrad Flynn, thank you.

>> Can can I plug my uh substack really quick?

>> I hope you will.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, um I'm I'm going to be doing uh launching my substack soon. If

you like reading about uh you know, secret histories, it's not all weird stuff. Some of it's wholesome. Most of

stuff. Some of it's wholesome. Most of

it will be wholesome. It's all

wholesome. Uh secret histories about Hollywood uh some politics, some tech stuff. I think we're going with the the

stuff. I think we're going with the the Flynn effect because the other um the other Substack names that were puns on my name all sounded like little brother magic show stuff. It's like conjurer or

you know contacts um con figures and I'm like this is magic show stuff. Um so yeah uh Flynn Effect and I'll have that and I think we'll probably also get um the uh

Rocking the Occult podcast. Uh, we're

still trying to do that, but we should have some episodes soon. If nothing has a podcast soon with again Tom Erlawine, Greg Johnston, Su Kolinsky, Gary Lochman, all those all the legends, Ned Raget.

Thank you. Thank you.

[Music] So, it turns out that YouTube is suppressing this show. On one level, that's not surprising. That's what they do. But on another level, it's shocking.

do. But on another level, it's shocking.

With everything that's going on in the world right now, all the change taking place in our economy and our politics, with the wars we're on the cusp of fighting right now, Google has decided

you should have less information rather than more. And that is totally wrong.

than more. And that is totally wrong.

It's immoral. What can you do about it?

Well, we could whine about it. That's a

waste of time. We're not in charge of Google. Or we could find a way around

Google. Or we could find a way around it. A way that you could actually get

it. A way that you could actually get information that is true, not intentionally deceptive. The way to do

intentionally deceptive. The way to do that on YouTube, we think, is to subscribe to our channel. Subscribe, hit

the little bell icon to be notified when we upload and share this video. That

way, you'll have a much higher chance of hearing actual news and information. So,

we hope that you'll do