The Science & Mechanics of Pleasure | Dr. Nicole McNichols

No one craves [music] bad sex, right? No one craves even the same sex [music] every single time. Oh

my gosh, missionary just needs a better publicist. [music] Honestly, missionary

publicist. [music] Honestly, missionary can be so hot. It can be so enjoyable.

And yeah, there's more skin-to-skin contact. [music] When a woman is getting

contact. [music] When a woman is getting really close to orgasm, [music] consistency is key. And that is why when

[music] she starts saying don't stop, she literally means don't stop what you're doing. One thing I will say

you're doing. One thing I will say though that's interesting is [music] women actually have been found to lose desire more quickly over the course of a

long-term relationship than men do. And

novelty is more important [music] for them over time. And so we assume that it's men who get bored quickly and they need, you know, they're going to go need the new partner or the new thing.

Actually, women are are more likely to report feeling those feelings of boredom. [music]

boredom. [music] This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average [music] host. This is the James Altter

[music] host. This is the James Altter Show.

Previously on the James Alture Show.

Let's face it, a lot of people are watching a lot of porn and that can kind of give this idea that you have to have all these, you know, 8 million style Olympic positions in order for it to be

hot. That you're meant to have rough

hot. That you're meant to have rough sex, right? The number one sexual

sex, right? The number one sexual fantasy is passion and romance, feeling wanted.

Boundaries is not just about saying, "No, I'm not going to do that. No, I'm

not going to meet you." It's also about saying, "I don't like how I'm emotionally feeling in this dynamic right now, and so I'm going to kindly step away." And that's self-care.

step away." And that's self-care.

That's confidence.

>> This is related to once you're having sex and communicating your needs, as you point out so much in the book, it's about self-awareness, too, of >> Yes.

>> what is happening in this situation, i.e. being present and then being able

i.e. being present and then being able to communicate either what you want or finding out what your partner wants.

like all this you dive into the book so much. I want to talk about this and I

much. I want to talk about this and I also want to talk about the biology you talk about early on in the book but >> yes >> I I also am really curious too about the

chemistry question again like is there you know pherommones or you know if someone has a lot of testosterone or estrogen like is do they emit like just

everybody's going to want to have sex with me? The I mean the answer is well

with me? The I mean the answer is well no certainly not everybody is going to want to have sex with me. The evidence

behind the efficacy of pherommones is very weak right the idea that certain people are just going to put you know spritz themselves with pherommones or naturally emit pherommones that are

going to attract people. There's really

no evidence for that. Having said that yeah you might be really attracted to a person's smell right but pherommones are different than smell. Pherommones are

this idea of some natural chemical that's emitting from you that's just going to be enticing people as this powerful aphrodesiac, right? So yeah,

smelling good, right? Or having liking your partner's scent that plays into it.

But you know, the beauty of chemistry is that it's really kind of hard to predict. And usually it's happening at a

predict. And usually it's happening at a level where that person is honestly making you feel a sense of safety.

Safety in feeling seen, safety in feeling attracted both to them and having them be attracted to you. But I know we don't

typically associate chemistry with safety, but safety is not feeling like, "Oh my gosh, this person won't stop calling me. They won't take a hint."

calling me. They won't take a hint."

Because in those situations, usually what we're not attracted to is the person's neediness, right? In other

words, it's more like it's about them and less about you. So chemistry is kind of something that yeah, it's about attraction, but it's also about feeling

very deeply seen and very deeply validated. However, if we're talking

validated. However, if we're talking about compatibility, which is sort of a related construct very much to chemistry, I want to make it clear that

sexual compatibility isn't something that is just bound. It's really

something that you build with a partner.

And there might be incredible sex that starts early on in a relationship, but that spontaneous desire, it's natural for that to fade over the course of a

committed relationship, right? We tend

to move more into models of responsive desire or at least usually one partner in the relationship will often move there. And we might in those moments

there. And we might in those moments start to panic and think, "Oh my gosh, have I lost attraction for my partner?

Is the chemistry gone? are we not compatible? Right? And no, it's really

compatible? Right? And no, it's really this pathway back through communication where you have to adopt what we call a sexual growth mindset, right? Meaning,

you're willing to try new things. You're

willing to have them epically fail and learn from those mistakes. You're

willing to understand that sex can get better. And it's just about being able

better. And it's just about being able to experiment and communicate. Yeah. and

feel safe understanding. It might not always come out perfectly. It's a little bit like that first pancake. Sometimes

it's a little weird at first and then over time as you communicate it gets a lot better. So

lot better. So >> that's such a great point by the way because a I'll never take the first of the batch of pancakes ever. [laughter]

But given that this is related to you talk about a lot of the myths of sex and I think a lot of people expect fireworks immediately.

>> Yes.

>> And >> I don't think that's often the case.

>> It's not. It's really not. And then we make the mistake of thinking if there aren't fireworks right away that they can't develop. And that's exactly what

can't develop. And that's exactly what I'm saying is that having this growth mindset, right? And this is why I, you

mindset, right? And this is why I, you know, I give so many examples of different types of communication techniques which are really the mechanism for creating that chemistry

that we want in our relationships. I

think communication has in particularly with regards sex is so complicated because there are shame issues like >> yes

>> admitting if you're not happy or admitting if you don't know like like the dynamics between men and women are so complicated because you know men are

are supposed to be the decision makers and take control and blah blah blah and you know women are supposed to like that and and not

In any case, there's a lot of there's a lot of like awkwardness awkwardness. And

if you say to someone, "Oh, I don't know what you liked."

>> That could be almost like considered a weakness. But you point out even the

weakness. But you point out even the biology early on that >> there's almost no way someone can know.

>> There's no way. Exactly. And that's

exactly right. I mean, even if we just go back to biology, our bodies are so different. And the more research, you

different. And the more research, you know, really recent research on sexual anatomy just showing how different we are, right? That even just subtle shifts

are, right? That even just subtle shifts that are due to hormones over the course of the month, for example, for women can make different things feel good at

different times of the month even. But

yeah, exactly. I really lean into this idea of pleasure diversity in my book because, you know, there are different types of touch and technique and

pressure and rhythm and places where you're touching that are going to feel amazing to some people and that are going to do absolutely nothing for others. You know, my students love it

others. You know, my students love it when I kind of try to replicate these findings in the classroom by pulling them through, you know, this online software I use. And they're always so

surprised when I ask and pull the class, you know, do you like having your breasts touched? Do you like having

breasts touched? Do you like having your, you know, inner thigh caressed? Do

you like having your I'm not sure how spicy we're allowed to get on this podcast, but do you like having >> spicy, believe me. Do you like having your your scrotum, you know, touched? Do

you like having any kind of anal stimulation? Do you like it when I sort

stimulation? Do you like it when I sort of sort of show a little bit of dominance and maybe pin your hands up against your head? Do you like it, you know, what kinds of styles of sex do you

like? Do you like lifted missionary,

like? Do you like lifted missionary, right? Where you're putting the pillow

right? Where you're putting the pillow underneath the woman's bottom to raise her pelvis. that makes sex usually

her pelvis. that makes sex usually better for her because it increases stimulation of the clitoris, right? But

we, you know, again, fall into these patterns. Only 18% of women can have an

patterns. Only 18% of women can have an orgasm from penetrative sex alone. So

many women and their partners, women feeling like they're broken because they can't have sex from that. Men feeling

like they're somehow not good lovers because they're having penetrative sex and yet she's not having an orgasm. And

it introduces this doubt and this insecurity. Right? Again, I mean, this

insecurity. Right? Again, I mean, this is why I really go in and have a whole section on the anatomy and t touch and and techniques because it really for

women, it's all about clitoreral stimulation and different ways that you know researchbacked ways to be able to introduce that and really focus on that.

And for men, it's, you know, it's not always the case that they are always ready to go and that they are always turned on. And again, my students are

turned on. And again, my students are always amazed when I pull my students, a good chunk of men are, you know, answered that they have more of what we

call a responsive desire, which means they only kind of start to get turned on after sexual behavior has kind of started. In other words, after they've

started. In other words, after they've started touching their partner, they start to feel that subjective sense of of desire. So, we yet we have all these

of desire. So, we yet we have all these stereotypes about how women versus men respond and what's going to feel good for them. And so many of those scripts

for them. And so many of those scripts are just utterly wrong, which is why we need to be able to have conversations both before sex when our clothes are on,

during sex, as well as after sex, right?

What are some of these scripts like? And

it's amazing because you would think it's during, but let's say like two people are just starting to date. Before

seems like an awkward time to say, "Well, do you like this kind of girl or like can you fill out this online?"

>> Yeah. Exactly. Okay. So, if we're talking about people who are just starting to date, right, there are people who feel totally comfortable talking about that, right? maybe even at

the first date in terms of what turns them on sexually and what they're into.

And if that is you, fantastic. Go for

it, right? But we have to be mindful of people's sexual styles. And yes, if you grew up in a sex positive community and have had a lot of sex education and feel

very comfortable talking about sex, that might be you and that's great. But it's

also okay if you feel kind of awkward about that, right? And so it might begin with more subtle forms of sexual communication, which means being

especially responsive and attuned to how your partner is responding during the entire sexual experience and using

phrases like, "Does this feel good? Do

you want me to keep going? Guide me."

Right? There are different types of phrases we can use that show our partner we're really turned tuned in to what it is they want. And that's hot, right?

That's going to introduce that element of chemistry that we're looking for rather than just staying silent through the whole experience in addition to seeking feedback from our partners,

right? How can I tell if you're enjoying

right? How can I tell if you're enjoying yourself? Like do you like does this

yourself? Like do you like does this feel good? Right? paying attention to

feel good? Right? paying attention to all of the nonverbal cues too, right?

How are they moving? What's their

breathing like? Is it increasing? Are

there moans? Are there size? Paying

really close attention to that so that you can kind of figure out what seems to be working versus, you know, what maybe is not getting as positive a response,

right? And same with giving feedback.

right? And same with giving feedback.

you you know one of my most popular Tik Toks is make noise during sex because we need to be giving off moans and sigh and

saying more or saying can you do this instead or initiating what we want right because actually that communication that is hot that makes sex better and again

it's leaning into this idea that sex is not supposed to be perfect and the first time it's usually not going to be perfect and That's okay, right? But it

can absolutely get a whole lot better very quickly if you can kind of force yourself in the moment to be using more of that

communication, verbal and non-verbal, behavioral, all of it. Shifting up

partner's hand, showing them where you like to be touched, all of these smaller things that can really improve sex, right? And you know it is you know a

right? And you know it is you know a little bit different but not with couples who are in more established relationships just because they kind of tend to often deal with a whole other

host of issues which can simply be that they feel maybe a little bit stuck in a rut or they feel like they're going through a dry spell or they feel like the sex is good but they're kind of

wondering is there anything more out there? And for those couples, in

there? And for those couples, in addition to communicating during sex, it's really important to be having these conversations beforehand as well when

you have all your clothes on, when you're not feeling naked and afraid and vulnerable, and have conversations. And

I give prompts in my book about things like, "Tell me a sexual fantasy you've had that you're maybe afraid to share with me," or, "What's the most amazing sex we've ever had?" or, "What's

something you've always kind of wanted to try but have maybe been a little bit afraid to bring up?" And the idea is that you know there's so much research in the social psychological area that

really highlights this idea that it's through mutual question asking the question asking and then the active listening that follows where it's a little bit of this back and forth

sharing critical information about yourself really listening to what the other person is saying and doing it in a way where you're progressively getting

to more and more intimate personal vulnerable questions that actually builds connection and chemistry very quickly. It also feeds into the wanting

quickly. It also feeds into the wanting stage of our pleasure cycle, meaning it builds desire. Because if you're having

builds desire. Because if you're having conversations about things you want to try, things that have defined incredible sex for you in the past that you can use

as a launchpad and let your curiosity expand upon, right? You're going to look forward to sex, right? No one craves bad

sex, right? No one craves even the same

sex, right? No one craves even the same sex every single time. I love tacos, but if I had tacos every single night for dinner, I would start to really dread

taco night.

And it's the same thing with sex, right?

We need to be introducing new types of novelty. And it doesn't take a lot,

novelty. And it doesn't take a lot, right? The research shows about once a

right? The research shows about once a month is really all you need. a new

position, a new technique, a new, you know, frame of dirty talk, a new, you know, maybe it's a blindfold, maybe it's having sex at a different time of day.

These different forms of, you know, what I describe in my book, micro novelty that really can light up a sex life in a profound way, even though none of these

changes require becoming a completely different person that feels not natural to you. So, it's really about yeah those

to you. So, it's really about yeah those communication cycles where as a couple you're having the talk beforehand and then you're enjoying communication

during the event and then this final stage where you're reflecting on the experience. Right? We know that pleasure

experience. Right? We know that pleasure has three phases. Wanting, liking, and learning. And if we're going to maximize

learning. And if we're going to maximize pleasure in the bedroom, we need to be paying attention to all three of those phases. And that means communicating

phases. And that means communicating before, during, and after sex. So we can think about what went well during the experience. What do we want to try next

experience. What do we want to try next time? What epically failed that we can

time? What epically failed that we can laugh about? But maybe there's some

laugh about? But maybe there's some other variation we could try.

>> I like this concept of the white wanting, liking, learning. And and I had some questions about that. So what one thing that you mentioned that was really

fascinating is that sometimes the dopamine the excitement about this the act of sex hap the peak of that dopamine might happen during the wanting the anticipation for the sex opp most of

the sex itself and you mentioned how like let's say if you want sex but it doesn't happen sometimes that could be incredibly disappointing because you're you're coming at it from these higher dopamine levels than than normal. So,

what I'm trying to wonder is is, you know, how can you avoid even the the comedown during sex essentially when dopamine is peing so

much during the wanting? Let's say a couple's been texting back and forth or they've been getting all excited for their Friday night out or whatever and and so their dopamine levels get incredibly high. How do they avoid it

incredibly high. How do they avoid it even being disappointing, you know, when the dopamine levels are a little lower?

>> So, yeah. So, I'm really glad you brought that up because there's such a misconception about dopamine. Everyone

thinks you get a dopamine hit after you experience the reward. The the truth is that dopamine comes before, right?

Dopamine is a neurotransmitter or you know hormone related to wanting anticipation, right? Which is why as I talk about

right? Which is why as I talk about sometimes that anticipation and wanting can be the most exciting part. But if

there's a lot of anticipation and wanting and a lot of communication during the sexual experience, yeah, sure, there are going to be elements that might not be exactly what you

fantasize them to be. But that's okay.

We need to let go of this idea that a great sexual experience has to be perfect because it doesn't. But we do need to be able to focus on the positive. What did go well in the

positive. What did go well in the experience? What did feel good? what we

experience? What did feel good? what we

do want more of, right? Because if we can really be focused on these more positive forms of communication, positive aspects of what is feeling

pleasurable, leaning into that, feeling more comfortable expressing that, then you're not going to experience a huge feeling of disappointment. But we tend to feel that huge sense of

disappointment if we're going into the experience expecting it to be pleasurable and it turns out it's really just the other person's about the other person's pleasure. You feel like they

person's pleasure. You feel like they are not attuned at all to what your sexual cues are. Do you feel like they're not checking in with you? That

they're just assuming they know what you like and that this is just sort of some performance to for them that's matching some script they have in their head of what they think everyone should enjoy and what sex should always look like.

Yeah, that's going to be a crummy sexual experience. Yeah, that will create a

experience. Yeah, that will create a lower dopamine drop which will not feel good. But that's kind of a sign that you

good. But that's kind of a sign that you know if you're in a relationship with this person that you have work to do and it's fun work and there are tools at

your disposal and you know or it just means that maybe this person seemed great but they are really not you know not willing at all to be responsive

in which case again there can be conversations that can be had that lean into you know can we focus on what's feeling good and I really like it when

you do And in other words, becoming more comfortable using those phrases and speaking up and giving feedback during sex. Because the reality is that look,

sex. Because the reality is that look, no one wants to be in a sexual experience where they feel like it's not pleasurable to them. They can tell it's not pleasurable to you and yet you're

not speaking up. Right? If you're

speaking up and giving feedback, it's possible to shift that sexual experience into a direction where it does feel really good for you and it does feel really good for them. So again, it's

kind of about having this growth mindset and faith that if you, you know, letting go of this Hollywood fantasy that it's just going to be amazing from the start and that it's a journey, right? It's an

erotic collaboration and there's two participants and it's about both of them leaning in.

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And you talk a lot about the myths of sex and a lot of them I was very relieved to read.

>> Oh, [laughter] good.

>> Mentioned some of the the myths that that you talk about.

>> Yes, absolutely. Um, so for example, I think we need to expand our definition of sex. I think one of the biggest myths

of sex. I think one of the biggest myths is this idea that sex equals penetration and that's it. This is why we could all learn a little bit from the queer and

the kink communities where because the types of sex they're having are not just relying on traditional heterosexual penetrative sex. They do need to ask

penetrative sex. They do need to ask each other at the beginning, what are you into? What do you want to try? How

you into? What do you want to try? How

is this going to unfold? Right? So, in

other words, letting go of this idea that it should just be about you start kissing, there's penetrative sex, he has an orgasm, maybe she does, and it's

over, right? That's going to be really

over, right? That's going to be really disappointing. When we look at couples

disappointing. When we look at couples in long-term relationships, for example, who report high levels of sexual satisfaction, there are a couple things they all do in common. And one of them is that they they have a lot of oral

sex, right? And [laughter] so I'm not

sex, right? And [laughter] so I'm not here to prescribe one certain sexual activity for all people, but the reality is that they're having types of sex

beyond just penetration. So we need to expand our definition. Another myth is that everyone is having more sex than you, right? Actually, everyone is

you, right? Actually, everyone is probably not having more sex with than you. If anything, we're in the midst of

you. If anything, we're in the midst of a national sex recession. People are

having less sex than they were 20 years ago. This is primarily being driven by

ago. This is primarily being driven by Gen Z and millennials, but it's also being found among older adults as well.

Variety of reasons, stress, social media, online dating, shifting demographics, right? The average age of

demographics, right? The average age of marriage is now 31 instead of younger, and you're probably less likely to be having a lot of sex if you're not in a relationship. But the reality is that

relationship. But the reality is that you don't need to be having astronomical levels of sex to be happy and experience well-being. And when we look again at

well-being. And when we look again at couples that report high levels of sexual satisfaction, they report that they're having sex on average about once

a week, right? Meaning that you don't need to be having sex every single day or multiple times a week to be experiencing all of the benefits

emotional, physical, and mental, that come from having sex. You can have sex multiple times a week. You're certainly

not going to experience less happen happiness than the couple that's having it once a week. But my point is that we don't need to pressure ourselves to be having tons of sex simply because we carry this misconception that everyone

around us is getting laid more than we are. They're not. And then, you know, I

are. They're not. And then, you know, I think another really important myth is, you know, this idea that our body should just get turned on right away and that if we're not starting out in a sexual

experience completely turned on that that means that we don't want it and we should just, you know, it's off the table. The reality is that we know when

table. The reality is that we know when we look at the sexual response cycle. A

for a lot of people, there's this two-way street. In other words, beliefs

two-way street. In other words, beliefs and behavior are sort of in this circular pattern where they're both feeding each other. And what I mean more concretely by that is

seriously sometimes your body needs to show signs of arousal. And that will happen. In other words, women will start

happen. In other words, women will start to lubricate before they even realize they're turned on. And men will also start to get an erection before even realizing that they're turned on. Which

means that if we come to a sexual experience feeling like, "No, maybe we could have it. Maybe I'm maybe maybe not. I'm I think I maybe I could get in

not. I'm I think I maybe I could get in the mood. I'm not sure." If you're open

the mood. I'm not sure." If you're open to having patience with your body and giving it a chance, sometimes it will lead to incredible levels of sexual

desire. And here's the beauty of it.

desire. And here's the beauty of it.

just as incredible sex and amazing orgasms as when it is spontaneous, right? And that brings me to kind of

right? And that brings me to kind of like the another myth that I just really want to highlight here, which is, you know, especially in the context of relationships, we tend to assume that

sex that is unplanned is always going to be hotter than sex that's planned. We

tend to think of, you know, oh my god, you know, scheduling sex, that's just the most unsexy thing in the world. And

I understand that that belief, but when you think about it, we put everything else on our calendars that's important to us, including things we're looking forward to, like a vacation, right?

Again, it feeds into that wanting stage, that anticipation that with it itself can be really enjoyable. But planning

doesn't just mean, okay, 8:00 p.m.

Wednesday, halfway through loading the dishwasher, we're just going to jump into bed. [laughter]

into bed. [laughter] Right? And so I talk about this idea in

Right? And so I talk about this idea in my book of planning intimacy dates which means giving yourself time right planning not just the sex itself but in

setting the mood both for yourself individually as well as with your partner right again when we look at couples in long-term relationships who are part high levels of sexual

satisfaction they all say they put a lot of effort into setting the mood meaning you close your laptop you know a bit earlier at night you do you take a shower or a bath, whatever it is that

helps you to get into the mood. You do

whatever grooming you feel like you need to get into. You read a book. You don't

go on to Tik Tok and start doomcrolling for hours. Right? In other words, if we

for hours. Right? In other words, if we understand that, you know, really to experience desire, it requires our central nervous systems calming down and

to a certain extent syncing up with that of our partner. If we once a week can set apart time either maybe it's when you're going out to dinner. You know, a lot of couples enjoy date night, but it

doesn't have to be even as elaborate as that. It can just be time when you're

that. It can just be time when you're sharing a glass of wine on the couch right after you've put the kids to bed or it's, you know, another time maybe you're taking a walk and just catching

up. But when there can be time set apart

up. But when there can be time set apart to nurture intimacy in general and it's sort of creating a space for sex and

eroticism to happen, you're just going to be much more likely to have it. And

what we see, you know, again from longitudinal studies is that when couples have planned sex, when it's something that was on the calendar, not only do they enjoy it just as much as

when they have spontaneous sex, but they have it more frequently and they report higher levels of desire. In other words, having it on the calendar, looking forward to it, knowing you're going to

do something special for yourself and for your relationship that night within itself can build anticipation and desire for the event. So, yeah, letting go of this idea that spontaneity is the only

pathway to great sex is, I think, really helpful and honestly a huge relief for a lot of couples. And you know, you also mentioned like positions like people there's like various positions of course

and people talk about which positions are quote unquote better than others and in particular even the name the missionary position like a missionary is like a priest so it's considered like the worst and but I always wonder like

it seems like that's the position with the most skin-to-skin contact and also your eyes are looking at each other. So

what is the problem with this [ __ ] >> Exactly. Oh my gosh. Missionary just

>> Exactly. Oh my gosh. Missionary just

needs a better publicist. Honestly,

missionary can be so hot. It can be so enjoyable. And yeah, there's more

enjoyable. And yeah, there's more skin-to-skin contact. I mean, remember,

skin-to-skin contact. I mean, remember, our entire body is an erogynous zone, right? It's not we're not just

right? It's not we're not just experiencing pleasure from our genitals.

It's a myth that that's the case. We

experience pleasure when there is skin-to-skin contact. You know, some of

skin-to-skin contact. You know, some of the most sexual people who I've had in to speak in my class where they feel comfortable, right, sharing what their

favorite types of sex are, they all describe this position of essentially they say, "I like to be smooshed, right?

I like to have full body contact, my entire body touching my partners. There

might, you know, we're both sweaty."

That can be hot. And yes, it increases feelings of emotional connection, right?

Again, that caring piece that we talked about that's critical to great sex. It

also can invite kissing. Kissing during

sex has actually some fascinating research behind it. When we kiss during sex, it first of all, it predicts a higher rate of orgasm in women. In other

words, when there's kissing during sex, women are more likely likely during the event to have an orgasm. Researchers

think this might be because it slows the pace of sex as well as increases intimacy, which we've talked about is, you know, important for pleasure. My tip

for missionary, other than it really needing a new name, is that we can make it more pleasurable for women because

there are ways to tilt her pelvis so that there is more friction against the clitoris and against that general area.

And so that's why I talk in my book about lifted missionary where you're literally taking a pillow and putting it underneath her bottom to lift her pelvis

up a little bit and that is going to sort of increase friction. I know if you if you're watching this on YouTube or whatever, you can see me, you know,

making me angles with my hands, but it's essentially going to be increasing the direct contact of the place on her body that feels the best because again, it's

all coming down to how do you stimulate the clitoris both from the inside and the outside.

>> Yeah.

>> You know where I first read this advice actually is the book a movable fee by Ernest Hemingway. Hemingway

Ernest Hemingway. Hemingway >> Gerald this advice.

>> I [laughter] love that >> about this is worried about his size. So

Hemingway >> takes and and it's supposed to be a non-fiction book, but Hemingway is really just taking out all his grievances on everybody he hates. So we

don't know if it's true or not, but Hemingway takes him to a museum in Paris where he looks at different statues and the sizes. And then he suggests this

the sizes. And then he suggests this technique >> that is amazing and it's okay. I need to now introduce that into my curriculum

for sure. But you know, the other thing

for sure. But you know, the other thing that Hemingway might have been on to is that technique, it stimulates the outer portions of the clitoris. But what a lot

of people are surprised to hear is we now know, and sadly we didn't know this until 2006 when Dr. Dr. Helen Oonnell finally through MRI studies looked at

the full structure of the clitoris but it extends about 6 in internally down and wraps around the vagina. It has

these inner structures are that are called the kura and the vestibular bulbs. And so you know we used to talk

bulbs. And so you know we used to talk about this idea of a G-spot and you know as like this magic button that was inside the vagina then if you stimulated

it it would lead to great orgasms. We now know there's not necessarily a G-spot, although there can be an area that is sensitive that has almost a

walnut texture to it that is different from the way the rest of the vagina feels. But what's important is that when

feels. But what's important is that when you stimulate that area, right, what you're really doing is stimulating the clitoris from the inside. In other

words, by moving that part of the vagina, you're in you're stimulating the kura and the vestibular bulbs which are directly just the lower portions of the clitoris. But the great news is this and

clitoris. But the great news is this and we call this we don't call it the G-spot anymore. Although it's fine if you want

anymore. Although it's fine if you want to call that to be make it easier if you're listening to this. We researchers

call the clitor urethral vaginal complex but anyway >> little bit harder to >> a little bit harder. Bit of a mouthful.

Well, like everything's like kind of just a sexual joke here because even just what you just said is really funny.

>> Exactly. No, that's okay. Anyway, this

area, this special area, it's two to three inches inside the vagina, which means as long as you are two to three inches in size, you can ma m you can hit

that magic area that will lead to incredible pleasure. So yeah, this idea

incredible pleasure. So yeah, this idea that you have to be really endowed or look like, you know, have the penis length of a porn star is just a total

fallacy. And yet there's so much

fallacy. And yet there's so much insecurity. About 82% of men report some

insecurity. About 82% of men report some kind of insecurity with their size. But

when we ask women if you're satisfied with the genital size of your partner, the vast majority of them, right, say yes. So there's this huge disconnect,

yes. So there's this huge disconnect, right? Over 80% of women are saying,

right? Over 80% of women are saying, "Yeah, I'm totally happy with his size."

But so many are reporting, you know, you know, fewer than half are reporting that they're satisfied with their size. You

know, I have a a Tik Tok that went viral, fi like five million views, the truth about penis size. And it's because there's so much insecurity around this,

right? And so much worry that if you're

right? And so much worry that if you're not 8 in long, you're not going to be able to give her an incredible orgasm when the reality is you just need two to three inches, guys. That's all it's

taking. And by the way, there's fingers,

taking. And by the way, there's fingers, there's sex toys, there's tongues, right? All of these can actually be even

right? All of these can actually be even better mechanisms for reaching those special areas than a penis. So, yeah,

there's sort of this unfortunate insecurity about something that just really doesn't need to be prioritized as much as it is.

>> And and you also mentioned early on, you know, like the labia, the inner labia, the outer, like all these different areas are also very, you know, feel

good. So exactly. So are they connected

good. So exactly. So are they connected in the same way to like are they part of the clitoreral complex or what's the

>> no so the but however they are filled with nerve endings right and so this is why I think a lot of people make the mistake of what I call gunning it for the [ __ ] because they have heard that

the clitoris is important and so they assume that they should just go directly there and start stimulating when the reality is that when things are getting going that can often feel not great.

It's almost feels like it's too sensitive. But if you are touching the

sensitive. But if you are touching the outer vulva, you're touching the outer the levia majora, the levia manura, which are the outer and inner lips of the vagina, those have so many nerve

endings and stroking that area can be a great way to start to get someone turned on and then slowly making your way to the clitoris. So yeah, no, those are

the clitoris. So yeah, no, those are very important structures. They're not

technically part of the clto urethral vaginal complex, but you know what is is if you heard within that mouthful the word urethra. The word the reason that's

word urethra. The word the reason that's there is the those internal portions of the clitoris and that area where you're stimulating 2 to 3 in inside it's

actually connected as well to something called the skins gland which feeds into the urethra. And the reason I'm sharing

the urethra. And the reason I'm sharing this is yes, some women do ejaculate.

And no, it's not pee. It is fluid from the skins gland that often accompanies an orgasm that's been stimulated internally via the G-spot, aka the

clitorthal vaginal complex. [laughter]

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Does the ejaculation happen the same way as an orgasm? And I guess here's a real dumb question. What?

dumb question. What?

>> No dumb questions.

>> Male orgasm.

>> Okay.

>> I mean I mean I know what it you know sounds like and when it hap whatever, but like what is like I know what a male orgasm is. What is technically a female

orgasm is. What is technically a female orgasm?

>> Okay. Well, first of all, there have been, let me just answer this from like a researchinformed perspective. When

orgasm occurs, it's a brief contraction of m muscles. It's within the pubocaka muscle, which is the pelvic floor and it is, you know, leading up through

arousal. You're building what's called

arousal. You're building what's called the orgasmic platform, which is sort of those muscles are becoming kind of tense, but in a good way. and then you

peak and then that leads to the contraction of these muscles and then that pushes to push blood out of the genitals. And this is true for both

genitals. And this is true for both women and men. And in fact, in studies where they've asked men and women to describe exactly what an orgasm feels

like, but you're not allowed to specifically name your genitals in your description. When they ask men and women

description. When they ask men and women to do that and then they give it to blind raiders, when the raiders read these descriptions, they're not able to distinguish which ones are describing

female orgasm versus male orgasm, which suggests it probably feels largely the same. Of course, there's blood flow to

same. Of course, there's blood flow to different areas, but men are ejaculating and then yeah, women often if it's an orgasm that's stimulated through that

area will also ejaculate. But I mean, >> does that feel better for them? than

just quote unquote just a female orgasm.

>> Not necessarily. When we look at blood flow, for example, for all these different types of orgasms, we will see more blood flow to the area where the stimulation was occurring, but in terms

of the physiological response of orgasm, it's pretty much identical, which is kind of amazing because there are people who can have orgasms just from having their breast touched or there's some people who can have orgasms just from

fantasy alone. Uh there are people who

fantasy alone. Uh there are people who can have >> without touch.

>> Without touch. Yeah. Yeah. I show my class a documentary of a woman they put into an MRI machine and she just fantasizes and she has like 40 orgasms

in the course of an hour and it's you know with researcher Beverly Whipple there. I mean it's just absolutely

there. I mean it's just absolutely incredible. Is that woman married?

incredible. Is that woman married?

Exactly. We all and and can we be here?

What's her secret? [laughter]

But I mean that part of your brain fantasy, right? That is the exact part

fantasy, right? That is the exact part of our brain that developed and evolved millions of years ago to be able to imagine things that are not actually

happening in front of us. They actually

evolved for a very adaptive reason. It's

if you can imagine things that aren't happening, it means you can make plans and form strategies which when we were trying to beat out other forms of

hominids was very helpful. But now we have this beautiful fact that we are the only living organism that can get completely turned on by something that's not in front of us, but that's just

located in our imaginations. And so

leaning into that and you know the fact that some people can have orgasms just from thoughts alone, we may not, you know, all of us may not be able to do that, but we can certainly learn to

harness our sexual fantasies to help us get turned on and to think about what kind of gets us going. So I think it points to that. But yeah, from an of a physiological standpoint, lots of ways

people can orgasm. that we really need to stop ranking them and assuming that if you're not have if you're not squirting that you're not having an intense orgasm or that a vaginal you

know Sigman Freud tried to argue that vaginal orgasms were more mature than clitorol orgasms insinuating essentially

that unless it was an orgasm that was caused by a penis it was immature right which is sort of a misogynistic view of sex just saying that you because

clitoreral stimulation is, you know, typically something a woman can do on her own via masturbation. But yet that's not true. And when we look

not true. And when we look physiologically at studies, right, from a, you know, physiological standpoint, it's the same.

Even when people are asked to describe the difference, I mean, sometimes some women will say, "Oh, it was more it felt deeper or more fullbodied." But you have to kind of, you know, take those

findings a little bit with a grain of salt because if we're believing that it's going to be more body because it's inside us, right? That's going to kind

of set up this expectation. But um you know just because it's you know internally being induced by a penis you know it can also there's a technique you

know the Spider-Man technique that I teach my students in class that I make them all practice that involves using a couple of fingers to stimulate the

G-spot in a come hither motion that is getting at those internal structures of the clitoris. And so sometimes, right,

the clitoris. And so sometimes, right, through a technique I call the finger tongue combo, if you're getting both the external portions of the clitoris as well as the internal portions, that can

lead to a really intense orgasm. But

again, all bodies are different and it's just about communicating with your partner and seeing really what they enjoy and what they want more of.

>> By the way, I do want to say this is the most important chapter in your book. So

thank you very much.

>> So glad to hear it.

>> Very important. League Spider-Man or come hither.

So [laughter] >> but but but but that was also related to the myth too that like fingers you know are more important than people usually say.

>> Oh yes exactly. That's another myth.

Yes. That fingering is boring. Fingering

needs to make a comeback. Right. There

is >> It's not like third base.

>> It's not like third base. Exactly. And

you know, it's really interesting because when we look at heterosexual couples, there's this orgasm gap. In

other words, if you ask men if they had in straight relationships or just who are straight in general, if the last time they had sex, they had an orgasm, about 95% say yes, they did. Whereas for

women, it's like 63%.

Right? So, in other words, men are orgasming at much higher rates. But when

you look at lesbians, right, their rates are about 85%.

Meaning that the orgasm gap is not about women being less orgasmic, but more about different techniques that straight couples are using versus lesbians. And

one of the things that lesbians are very good at is using their fingers. And so,

yes, again, when you were speaking about the outer labia and the inner labia, using fingers to be able to warm up those areas, using fingers to be able to stimulate 2 in inside using that

Spider-Man technique, right? Using

fingers in a back and forth motion or a figure eight or up and down in either, you know, a a pattern that is rhythmic and the same or is switching things up

to build anticipation.

All of these things are magical techniques that for so many women are so much more pleasurable than just simply penetrative sex.

>> And you also mentioned and this is an interesting thing and it's also related to the miss is consistency. So like

>> yes >> one thing then you see in the Hollywood movies it's like or or whatever like every everyone's shouting like faster or harder whatever right >> and that's >> that's comes that's the opposite of what

you're saying with just the consistency.

>> Yes. Um, I'm so glad you brought that up. So, we go from faster, harder, you

up. So, we go from faster, harder, you know, all of it can be helpful sort of more during the plateau stage, which is that second stage after excitement builds when you might want to be doing

different things, switching up positions, switching up techniques. But

when a woman is getting really close to orgasm, consistency is key. And that is why when

she starts saying don't stop, she literally means don't stop what you're doing. No. And I know that this is hard

doing. No. And I know that this is hard for all you overachievers out there who are listening and who really your instinct is to just step things up at

that moment. No, just literally what she

that moment. No, just literally what she means is keep doing exactly what you're doing and don't change it. From a

physiological standpoint, that makes sense because when we're looking at the orgasmic platform and this rhythmic sequence of contractions that define orgasm, it's that consistency that helps

to then trigger the consistency of the orgasmic muscle contractions.

>> Yeah. So, so it seems like a lot of this discussion we're talking about techniques for the female orgasm and so on and there's really like the male

orgasm is kind of easy and it's not really like a big deal it seems and but you do mention something that's interesting which also I think is like an interesting myth that it you know the

quantity of male orgasms is actually healthy like the male you know males men having a lot of orgasms is actually a very healthy thing whereas I think a lot of times people think, you know, if you

kind of restrict your male orgasm, it's like this how of sex thing where, you know, somehow you build testosterone or you get stronger or whatever,

>> right? Yes. And those myths have really

>> right? Yes. And those myths have really come from the anti- porn movement, right? which is really trying to put so

right? which is really trying to put so much shame on men who are watching porn when they're really that it's really

unhelpful to be and and not evidence-based that that that is like a a bad behavior, which we can get to. But

with masturbation specifically, no, orgasms are healthy. They tone the muscles. They keep blood flow to the

muscles. They keep blood flow to the area. But yet, I've heard so many myths

area. But yet, I've heard so many myths that you need to, you know, not have or restrict the number of orgasms you have so that you can build up testosterone.

Not at all true. That it's going to lead to zinc loss or nutrient loss. Not at

all true. That's going to make you less able to get turned on by a partner.

Actually, people who masturbate in relationships have more sex with their partner, not less. So, yeah, there's so many myths associated with it. My

students every year want to know what my thoughts are on this thing called No Nut November, which is essentially this social media movement where everyone is

supposed to refrain from masturbating every November as a quote unquote mental and physical reset. And I swear I want

to get a protest going out in campus every November against this because it is just built on shame and there is just no science to support this idea that

restricting the number of orgasms you're having is going in any way to be helpful. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What about

helpful. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What about

like for for let's say a man who's getting older like 40s, 50s, 60s, they're not have as much sperm production, right? And so

production, right? And so >> uh you know, is there benefit there of not necess for the man of not necessarily having orgasm every time that that

>> So as men age, it's not so much about sperm production. Sperm actually make up

sperm production. Sperm actually make up less than 1% of semen. Semen is mostly made out of fluid that is from the seinal fluid as well as prostate fluid.

>> Yeah. I just want to ask and in the past 58 years I have thought semen and sperm are the exact same thing.

>> Yeah. It's it's a huge myth. It's a huge myth. No, there's very few. It's less

myth. No, there's very few. It's less

than 1%. About 300 million perjaculate which is still 1%. It sounds like a lot but it's still less than 1%. However,

what happens with men as they age, because this is an important topic, is what's called, which actually leads to another big myth with male sexuality is

they experience increasingly longer refractory periods. And so what a

refractory periods. And so what a refractory period is, and this is something that you don't see in porn, right? Is that after a man ejaculates,

right? Is that after a man ejaculates, there is going to be a period of time where no matter how turned on he is or

how badly he wants to have sex, he will physiologically be unable to have an get another erection. And so this means a

another erection. And so this means a couple of things. It means first of all that you know I get a lot of young men in my office who feel like the fact that they you know can't just immediately get

hurt again to have you know another round of sex with their partners means there's something broken. No,

physiologically that's actually not required nor is it normal. But that time which inevitably occurs varies and it does tend to get longer with age. So in

a 20-year-old it might be 15 minutes but by the time you get to be 70 or 80 it might be up to 48 hours. So there is some there is you know so if you find

you know and this is it's just individual right I mean there's some 80-year-olds who might be able to get heart again 15 minutes later by all means if that's you go for it but there there can be it's it's not that orgasms

are bad for you it's just that it's a natural part of your orgasmic response to have that refractory period and yeah as we get older you know aging is a

bummer we it it takes a little longer but that's Okay. [laughter]

>> But it doesn't necessarily decrease, you know, this is your whole point is that that it's not just about the orgasm and it's not like goal oriented sex.

>> No. Exactly. Exactly.

>> I think as a man gets older and a man can appreciate all these other aspects as opposed to goal oriented.

>> Exactly. Exactly. It's not a goal oriented procedure. We don't need to

oriented procedure. We don't need to have multiple orgasms and be having sex in Olympic style positions for sex to be incredible, right? It just needs to be

incredible, right? It just needs to be authentic. We need to feel, again, it's

authentic. We need to feel, again, it's that caring and connection that happens when we feel like we're really coming together with a partner and feel

like there's that sexual curiosity and it's almost a form of play, right? Where

you're really showing your partner a vulnerable side of you that nobody else gets to see. And that's a beautiful thing and that does not go away with age. And so yeah, I mean it's okay that

age. And so yeah, I mean it's okay that you don't need to, you know, that you're not having sex every 15 minutes, but that's not necessarily a bad thing,

right? Or is it a sign that you're

right? Or is it a sign that you're masturbating too much? But like in terms of the refractory period, let's talk about women for a second because then there's I picture a Hollywood movie. Two

people have sex, then suddenly they're smoking cigarettes, taking showers, going on leaving the house, what going on with their day. Whereas, you know, you mentioned in the book that that multiple orgasms for women are a lot

more common than people think. And

>> what is the story with that? Does every

woman have the capability? Like what how do you do it? Like what is the what is the story? So multiple orgasms are real

the story? So multiple orgasms are real and about a third of women report that they have them on a somewhat regular basis of women who are sexually active.

The reason that women can have them and men can have them too. We we'll talk about how in just a second, but is because they don't have a refractory period. And so when a woman is having

period. And so when a woman is having multiple orgasms, it's not it's not that you have sex, she has an orgasm, you go, you get a snack, you cuddle, and then

you have sex again. It's usually, you know, on average, the orgasms are about, you know, two to three to four minutes apart. And instead of coming back down

apart. And instead of coming back down into resolution, she's sort of going back and forth between orgasm and what we call the plateau stage. So, you know,

when we've interviewed women who identify as being multi-orggasmic, there's a huge range in experiences.

Some say that the average number of orgasms that they'll have is two or three. Some report up to 50 or 100.

three. Some report up to 50 or 100.

Right. Sounds exhausting, but good for them.

>> 100 though times three minutes is is six hours.

>> Yes. So remember the three minutes is an average which means for you know so there's going to be like there's like one person in a study of a thousand who said that. So I mean we have to just

said that. So I mean we have to just remember the math here is you know she's getting mixed into the average.

>> But you know for her probably you know it was probably more likely that she was having something called serial orgasms where it's almost just kind of like one

super long orgasm that just has multiple peaks. Um, so you know, it's a

peaks. Um, so you know, it's a subjective thing. So it's hard to

subjective thing. So it's hard to exactly know unless you were in the room with her, which would, you know, arguably pose some ethical issues [laughter] to know exactly what was happening, but

or not, right? I mean, Masters and Johnson did it, so why not? But they,

you know, some women, about half of women who have multiple orgasms say it is something that they feel like they have some control over. The other half don't. They say that when they have

don't. They say that when they have them, they're more likely to feel incredibly emotionally connected to their partner at the time. Not that the multiple orgasms causes that, but that

they come into the experience feeling really connected to their partner. Some

of them, you know, report that they have a super super high sex drive in general.

Some of them report just an average sex drive. Some report that they started

drive. Some report that they started exploring themselves sexually at a younger age. Others don't. So there's

younger age. Others don't. So there's

really just huge variety in terms of the experiences, how many you have, but yeah, on average, the first one occurs about 10 to 11 minutes into sex, and

then they occur about every 2 to 3 minutes. But again, more is not always

minutes. But again, more is not always better, right? And so sometimes it's do

better, right? And so sometimes it's do you want to have two or three sort of, you know, midlevel intensity orgasms or just one powerful full all body amazing

orgasm at the end. It just, you know, it just depends on what your body is wired for, what you're into, and maybe, you know, the connection you feel.

>> After that first orgasm, is there any cooling down period? Like you say there's no refractory period. like is

there?

>> So for some women they say stimulation just continues meaning that there's really no calming down. In other words, it's coming down into the plateau phase.

You're you're not orgasming. You're in

that space in between, but there's no there's no refractory period at all. For

other women, they will switch to a different type of stimulation. And one

thing that's interesting is that on average when women have multiple orgasms, they say the first one is reached through direct clitoreral stimulation either with a finger, a tongue, a sex toy, and then the second

one might still be clitoreral stimulation, but it is also just as equally likely caused through vaginal penetration. which is sort of

penetration. which is sort of interesting because when you consider that women have a hard time, you know, most orgasming through vaginal penetration at all, it suggests that,

you know, if you've had a clitoreral orgasm that it might make it a little bit more likely that you will, you know, can have a vaginal one. And that makes sense because if you've had one orgasm,

you already have, you know, what we call vaso congestion in the area, good blood flow, everything's aroused, and it might, you know, make it easier for that next one to occur. So, in other words,

it's it varies, right? Some people they just keep going and there's really no break and for some people there is a break. It just depends on the person.

break. It just depends on the person.

>> And now you you mentioned like for for a lot of these women, they're experiencing a big emotional connection with their partner and maybe that just allows them to relax more or have more trust or

confidence. But what is the role of love

confidence. But what is the role of love in sex? like how much does love increase

in sex? like how much does love increase or decrease the the enjoyment, you know, the the hormones that are released? How much does it increase or

released? How much does it increase or decrease the enjoyment for men? You

know, I'm just curious about the emotional role here. You know, I think it's almost a little bit like sexual

orientation. Some people are oriented to

orientation. Some people are oriented to really need love before they can really feel that ability to let go and enjoy

sex and be truly vulnerable. And the

more connected and in love with their partner they feel, the better able they are to really let go and have inc experience pleasure. But some people are

experience pleasure. But some people are oriented towards things like novelty, adventure, thrill, a little bit of risk takingaking. There are even some people

takingaking. There are even some people now who identify as being freexual, which essentially means they lose sexual attraction for a partner that becomes

too familiar or who becomes somebody who is not brand new, right? And so we used to, you know, spend time thinking that those people were, you know, emotionally

stunted. But if you have the awareness

stunted. But if you have the awareness to know that that's just your sexual orientation and you're honest and transparent about that, you know, maybe it's just part of the beautiful diversity of sexual expression. The

problem is if you're misleading about it, right? But yeah, I mean, people are

it, right? But yeah, I mean, people are just oriented towards different things.

It's, you know, no different than, you know, some people truly are oriented towards, you know, wanting to be an open, you know, in in polyamory. Some

people are oriented towards enjoying kink and kind of the risk and excitement that that carries. And I think some of us are oriented to just want a really strong feeling of emotional connection

and love to experience a really intense orgasm.

>> I'm wondering just in terms of relationships like are the people who are oriented towards feeling love in, you know, when they're having an orgasm or whatever, are they more likely to stay in longer term, you know, or deeper

relationships?

>> Probably. I mean, we don't have data on that. I would guess yes. One thing I

that. I would guess yes. One thing I will say though that's interesting is women actually have been found to lose

desire more quickly over the course of a long-term relationship than men do. And

novelty is more important for them over time. And so we assume that it's men who

time. And so we assume that it's men who get bored quickly and they need, you know, they're going to go need the new partner, the new thing. Actually, women

are are more likely to report feeling those feelings of boredom.

>> I believe that just because most of what we've been talking about is the female orgas. Male orgasm is like the easiest

orgas. Male orgasm is like the easiest thing in the world, it seems to me.