The Second House in Astrology

hey my name is Chris Brennan and you're listening to the astrology podcast joining me today is astrologer Lisa shim and we're going to be doing a deep dive into the meaning of the second house in astrology and explaining the

significations of that house by looking at a ton of different example charts of different people that have second house placements either planets in the second house um having the ruler of the

ascendant in the second house or looking at the ruler of the second house itself and what it means when it's located in different houses in order to get a comprehensive overview of what the

second house means in a birth chart uh so hey Lisa thanks for joining me hey Chris glad to be here yeah so this is a uh big one I did a big episode on the

first house last time with Nick Nick and best and um today I've been talking to you about this as I've been researching it intensely over the past few weeks um

and I found so many charts you've also found some charts and I think we have a lot of good stuff to say about the second house today yeah we have an abundance of charts uh pardon the pun

abundance a plethora that will come into into play as we talk about some of these charts we have some like billionaires and millionaires including charts for some of the richest people in the world

that I want to go through a little bit today um so let's start off first by um I want to share a diagram that I have

that shows the significations of the houses and it shows where the second house is relative to the first house so this is a diagram for those watching the video version that shows

the significations of the houses and the thing that's important here that I want to emphasize at the beginning is talking about the astronomical situation of the second house because once you figure

that out it becomes pretty clear why the second house means what it means so in the previous episode I talked about the first house and how the

first house using whol sign house is used in ancient astrology um the degree of the ascendant which represents the Eastern Horizon will fall somewhere in

the second house or sorry somewhere in the somewhere in the first house and then um part of the first house then

will be above the Horizon in the sky which is the area of the chart that the ancient astrologers associate with the spirit and the mind and the intellect basically everything in the top half of

the chart and then part of the first house is below the degree of the ascendant and is below the Earth so it represents everything that's below the

Earth in the material realm which is the realm that they associated with the concept of Fortune with chance but also with the body and the physical

Incarnation so it's such a simple distinction but it's one that um had never been properly recognized in contemporary astrology until I started

doing some work in 2012 on the planetary Joys scheme which is a system of assigning planets to the houses and saw that it's built into the concept of the houses just this idea that the top half

of the chart with the sky is like the mind and the spirit the intellect and the bottom half of the chart is like the body the physical Incarnation and the material world so why that's important

when it comes to the second house is the first house part is above the Horizon part is below the Horizon and so it's the meeting place between sky and Earth

and also um therefore it's the place where you are born and you come into this world and you're spirit is sort of merged with your body so the first house

represents the self it represents you in the chart and all the things associated with it so the next house in order the second house in whol sign houses is the

second sign relative to the rising sign so it's the sign that falls after uh the rising sign and the second house is the first house

that's fully submerged under the Earth in the material realm and the realm of physical Incarnation and so um the second house

as a result of that has a lot to do with material things and with the material realm and everything associated with that which functionally ends up um

resulting in it meaning that the second house signifies possessions money finances income and basically everything related to the material world when it

comes to the native's life becomes the core meaning of the second house right like for instance when a a baby is born um the first things that

more or less gets is um you know some sort of nourishment like either breastfeeding or some sort of food um and then they're either put in some sort of clothing or wrapped in a blanket or

something regardless of the specifics like food and clothing are like your first things that are supporting your life as soon as you're born and so it just keeps extending from there in terms of just the the physical things that

support the first house life right exactly so um there's this notion so in the ancient astrology it was referred to

as the Gate of Hades or the gate to the underworld because you're fully entering this realm of like the underworld or going under the Earth at this point and

being fully enmeshed in the material realm and um I like what you said though that the second house um as a succeeding house that follows after the first house

it supports the first house so it supports the native and therefore it is those physical things that come to support you during the course of your

life and what your relation is to them and how well you're supported materially and financially during the course of your exist existance in the course of your like you know occupation of this

birth chart that will represent the rest of your your life and your life Journey right so as an extension of that it can show your literal finances or possessions but it can also show your

orientation towards the things that you need for Life I.E money or possessions so um you know so how you go about um getting money um your sort of style of

dealing with finances which can be very different for different individuals and so forth yeah for sure um so livelihood like what do you do to support yourself

livelihood is the primary keyword that was used for the second house in ancient astrology it was the Greek word bios um which means life or livelyhood

um and so um it means like making a living like what do you do to make a living and that when you're making a living you're making an income that's what's the thing that's necessary uh

materially in order to support you and in order to get by and and survive um and some people have different orientations towards that in terms of for some people that's an area of

struggle where maybe material or financial things are a constant struggle for them that does not come easy versus for other people as we'll see um

material or financial things is something that does come easy or in which they're tremendously fortunate um and that can really affect a lot of

other things in the life um if you you know depending on how things go in that area for sure so in some charts we'll see you know it says something specific

around the type of thing the person does to make an income like the literally the type of work they do but of course there's other workhouses in the chart so that can vary sometimes it is that

specific um you know the connections between the second house and other houses at other times it speaks more in other charts potentially it speaks more towards um you know their orientation

towards money or you know like you were just saying how easy or hard it is to to get money um there are different facets that kind of show more in some charts than

others yeah for sure um and you know for some people that's like a major part of the life oras for other people it's not and that's also sometimes reflected in the chart as well if a person has like a

lot of planets in the second house and that's like aaz area of their life for some reason or if a person doesn't have as much going on there um one thing I meant to mention because I got a ton of

questions after the last episode if you don't have any planets in a house it doesn't mean that there's nothing going on there you just have to look and see what the ruler of that house is doing uh

in order to get information about that house absolutely yeah that does come up a lot so that's something we'll be seeing a lot of okay so just to finalize significations and run through them so

it's like money finances possessions livelihood income resources assets one of the ones that came up that I was um surprised at but it made sense as I was

doing this research was that lifestyle seems to be a signification associated with the second house because I was noticing especially in the instances of some people that had like really

extravagant Lifestyles that were um sort of like demonstrations of their wealth uh that it was really coming up that lifesty was like a core meaning in some

ways especially in terms of how do you maintain your lifestyle because sometimes like people have a certain type of lifestyle that they want to support and it becomes a question of

like what do I need to do financially in order to have the money to support that um and as well as sort of adjacent things like what kind of Lifestyle does

a person lead um and what they do in order to support that life for sure yeah and even you with all things being equal say like you know two different people

who have lots of money their lifestyle can still look different in terms of like how they spend that money how they save that money Etc definitely um all right other significations making a living attitude

towards money and material possessions like some people have different attitudes towards these things earning potential um issues of wealth versus poverty can sometimes come up in terms

of the second house and in terms of what planets are there or how the ruler of the house is situated and whether it's in good shape in the chart or poor shap shape in the chart um spending habits

that's one of the things we'll see when we talk about planets in the house especially that sometimes it can very much characterize the person's spending habits um Financial stability or lack

thereof um demitra in her book um ancient astrology volume two she has this amazing treatment of the significations of the houses starting with the ancient astrologers and then going through to the Medieval

Renaissance and times some of the other significations she put in her chapter in volume two of that work were expectations of prosperity um fears of

financial lack earning saving and spending habits um and um one of the topics that can sometimes come up potentially is issues

surrounding like Greed for example can come up in connection with the second house um as as you said um as you said the second house is

also part of the Trigon of houses that all have to do with like work and what you do to make a living and the second house is like your livelihood and your

income the sixth house is work subordinates and um also like labor or just areas in which you have to work for something and may not be in charge um

and then the 10th house is like career and reputation and your overall life Direction and especially those areas of your life where you are in charge and you do some of your most important work or

actions right so typically if someone's actually looking at a chart to see something about like the type of work you'll do or how you'll make a living you know it's not just one house you know you would look at like the first

house and a senate ruler second house 6th 10th and do some sort of synthesis of like what does that all look like together because for some people that's all easily connected and it's like this is what I do for work and this is how I

make a living or this is my profession rather than this is how I make a living but for other people like say like artists or you know people who for whom it's not always easy especially initially to make a living from what

they want to do for work they're like two separate areas and so they're making a living being a waiter or something but they're also acting as like their profession so you want to look at all of

that yeah for sure and as we can see as we'll see in the chart examples um it's it's rarely just a matter of you know the second house but usually there's many different things in the chart that

just describing the overall picture of what happens in terms of a person's work or income or other things like that and sometimes those can be a little bit out

of whack like a person can have you know a great career that they really enjoy doing what they love but it cannot make them money for example and they could be struggling financially you know even

despite doing what they like doing or alter alternatively they could be making a lot of money and be really finan successful but in terms of the 10th house and career um they don't get to do

the thing that they really want to be doing or that they have a real passion for exactly so there's all sorts of different combinations in terms of that um in modern astrology there's some

additional like psychological significations that are sometimes emphasized one of them is the notion of the second house being that which you put value into um like what you consider

valuable so we'll see a little bit of that to some extent because I did notice in some examples that it's like one of the things is you only pursue something because you have value or you covet it

and there's some examples I've seen with some people of pursuing some second house things because they Place obvious value or or a unique set of values on

that material thing um but you know other times that's not necessarily always the case because people sometimes just pursue second house things because they have to out of out of necessity M

exactly exactly because we all you know at minimum need subsistence to survive you know however that comes about or whatever are sort of overlay values on

top of that it's still like a material reality yeah so other things the modern astrologers sometimes associate in connection are how you acquire and

manage things you value um your most valuable possessions and sometimes in modern psychological astrology they get into Notions of the second house having to do with self-or worth um and I'm not

sure how much of that we'll see we'll have to talk about that later for the most part we're going to focus I did want to say we're going to focus on more of a traditional approach to the significations of the houses in this

series and when it comes to the second house which is going to be more limited in the sense we're going to focus primarily on the second house having to do with concrete meanings of like

finances and possessions and things like that um so the point is partially just to demonstrate and show how those traditional significations actually do

work out in people's lives and and the one hand that's going to be a little bit more narrow in that we're not going to be extending it as much to to psychological things but on the other

hand even by narrowly focusing on some of the core significations as we'll see in the examples there's such a wide variety of different ways that that can work out especially based on the ruler

of the second house being in different houses that um yeah there's there's a lot of different ways can manifest in a person's life absolutely and just kind of as a you know secondary note about

that um part of why we're doing that is you know traditionally especially you use whol sign houses and you look at the traditional placements and rulerships and so forth um you know you can see a

lot of the concrete reality of Any Given area of the person's life including the second house and finances and while I think there's some Credence sometimes to like self-worth being tied into your

money in terms of if you don't feel like you're worth charging enough if you're like self-employed there are things like that that can come into play certainly but there's also many many instances in which you can think you're great and you

could be authentically great but you are not in charge of all of the circumstances in which you know the context either allows or makes harder you're making a certain amount of money

that's that's not all up to you even if there's a self-worth component yeah for sure that's a really good point um all right the last thing I wanted to look up like a definition of livelihood because

it was really the primary significations that the earliest asers gave for the second house um and I thought this was a good definition so it said livelihood refers to the means by which a person

earns the money or resources necessary to support their basic needs in existence so remember the second house is a succeeding house it rises up towards the first house and supports it

and the first house represents you um so the definition goes on it says this typically includes securing food shelter clothing and other Essentials for daily living in a broader in a broader sense

livelihood can also Encompass the activities skills and assets that an individual or Community relies on to make a living whether through formal

employment self-employment or subsistence practices so key points to remember livelihood is fundamentally about securing the basic necessities of life it can involve various forms of

income generation and resource acquisition and livelihoods can be diverse and vary across individuals communities and cultures so I think that sets a great overall tone for what we're

going to be talking about here when it comes to the second house and that we're going to be see demonstrated in such a wide variety of different ways pressure all right cool so um let's

transition we're going to talk about chart examples at this point and we're just going to go through as many chart examples as we can I have actually way too many chart examples to go through in this episode but we're going to see how

many we can get through my notes are actually about like 76 pages long at this point the Google document that has all my research from the past month that I've been doing on this um so we're

going to see what we can get through and in terms of um structuring things um there were a few preface um notes that I want to put before we get into chart examples one I want to give a shout out

to three people for their research assistance as I was working on this one of them is an astrologer named Ora who gave me some help looking at planets in houses another is Nick Dean best and the

other is of course Lisa shine who not just contributed some charts that you found but also helped me talk through each each of these examples as I was like excitedly finding new ones each day

and then needed to to tell somebody like how amazing they were right yes yes we've been talking about this for the past week or so at least yeah two weeks

or so um so the other thing um I used to be able to talk for hours on my my own and because this is mainly research that I did over the past few weeks of doing

like uh maybe 50 chart examples maybe 70 chart examples I don't even know how many it is at this point um it's something that I would used to before maybe present in a lecture and as a solo

just lecture presentation and in some ways ideally that might have been the better format since most of this is just presenting my research but because of my health issues uh with chronic fatigue

and long covid over the past few years I've lost the ability to do that because I both don't have the energy and my voice goes out if I talk too long on my own so as a result of that on the

podcast I often have people on to talk with me so that it's more of a conversation and that allows me to um not wear out my voice and to be able to

keep talking so Lisa's joining me for this today um both because she's a great astrologer has researched some great examples that she's going to share but also in order to help me talk through

this um so I wanted to mention that because sometimes people complain if they hear me talking too much not realizing that part of the the reason for that is that people are actually

joining me to help me out um while I'm presenting my research right yeah so all right um other preface note I'm going to use

example charts from a wide variety of people from different walks of life um I'm going to avoid for the most part passing value judgments um on the different charts though because there's so many different people I have so many

charts to get through that I feel like it would be like a whole separate thing and I wouldn't be able to include as many charts if I spent a lot of time talking about certain things and I think it's a given in some instances like for

example in other lectures you might talk about Hitler's chart um but it's sort of like a given that Hitler was a bad guy and did terrible terrible things and

sometimes doesn't always bear focusing on that or or repeating just for the sake of giving an example of some certain part of it chart so I wanted to state that from the outset as well right

sometimes it's interesting to find charts that you you know of people that you personally find interesting or valuable in terms of their work but obviously for the sake of astrological

presentation you're really just looking for different astrological placements and expressions and that's by necessity going to be kind of a range of humanity

and a range of like people doing great things and not so great things and you know that's the nature of looking at astrological charts yeah for sure and you know in order to be able to see different ways

that astrology works out you're going to have to be able to look at charts of people you don't agree with or people that have done terrible things or that you find distasteful or what have you um but that's part of just part of the

territory in order to do this research and also even sometimes in terms of doing consultations and stuff and you know what what what your role is as an

astrologer in terms of that so so um yeah so I wanted to put that as a preface um we already did the preface about focusing on the traditional meanings at the second house so I think

that's good um yeah shall we jump into it yes let's all right so I was trying to figure out how to structure this because

I have so many chart examples and I want to start first I want to break it up into three or four sections the first section I want to talk a little bit about some just basic examples of what

it looks like when a person has a planet in the second house and sometimes just the quality or the significations of that planet become manifest in the

context of the the livelihood or the income of the Native that is just really obvious that the signification of the planet manifests in terms of the person's finan finances in some way so

the first section will be planets in the second house the next section I want to do also is the ruler of the ascendant in the second house because um the ruler of the ascendant as we saw in the last

episode can tell you something about the native's overall life Direction and focus and some particular area of the life or area of the chart that the native is more focused on or that their

life is more directed towards than others so we're going to look at some examples of the ruler of the ascendant in the second house and what that looks like to see the second house um as

something that's more important in terms of the totality of the native's life Direction and then after that we're also going to look at in the next section we'll look at the ruler of the second

house when it's placed in different houses in the chart um and how that can tie together different parts of the person's life and the topics of two

houses where the native's finances become in meshed and or tied together with uh different parts of the person's life so we'll look at that both in terms of the ruler of the second house as well

as the ruler of other houses in the second house that then report significations into the second house M and these are rough categories there will be many of them that of course

cross those boundaries but we're going to try to organize it that way yeah I think you know because when we get to some of these examples we'll probably mention some of those things when they come up but in terms of rough things

we'll we'll start here so let me look at my planet inh house examples and see where I want to start with one of them that was my

favorite that I've always used um many times like it's one of my core examples um because it's such a good one is Lisa Marie Presley who was the

daughter of Elvis Presley the famous singer and Lisa Marie Presley was born with Leo rising and Jupiter in Virgo in

the second wh Sign House in a day chart so that means that Lis Marie Presley was born with Jupiter in a day chart in the second House Jupiter is the most positive planet in the chart then and

what happened is um when her father passed away when she was relatively young he left his entire estate to her which was valued at millions of dollars

um but what was interesting is he actually stipulated that she couldn't inherit the full estate and take full control of it until she turned 25 years

old so the day that she turned 25 years old um she inherited Elvis's entire State worth millions and millions of dollars and um if you use the technique

annual Perfections where you count one sign per year from the ascendant um 25 years old is actually a second house Perfection year and it activates the

second house so for people with second house placements um it can often be a very important year that in some ways activates the potential of the native's

finances so for her it was inheriting her father's estate uh which made her very rich with Jupiter in the second house and interestingly it was an

inheritance and the ruler of her second house is mercury which is in Pisces in the eth house of death and inheritance and other people's money so the source

of the wealth was from an inheritance from her father right so she's got both she's got um Mercury and Jupiter making a mutual reception between the second

and eighth houses um and I know that something you found found uh in your research is how much uh the eighth house was showing up in people who were

very wealthy because of the nature of either inheritance or Investments like something dealing with other people's money connecting with their own personal income and finances and this is

certainly one of those right off the bat um but Jupiter of course being the prime thing going on in a day chart in the second house so just like abundance of you know personal

finances yeah exactly um and also the ruler of the eth house itself is Jupiter which is in the second house so she has a mutual reception between the second house and the eighth house and anytime

you have a mutual reception it really ties together the topics of those two houses very closely as we'll see in other chart examples and as I showed in the previous episode on the rulers of the houses um the last point about hers

is it's interesting because she also has Mars in the eth house in a day chart um opposing some of the second house planets and there were some issues where

um um some of the funds were not invested wisely and some of the inheritance money ended up being squandered or ended up being misappropriated by different advisers

and stuff like that so that she lost a lot of it um or and had to have some like legal battles surrounding that I believe so it's also a good example not just of great um a windfall and great

good fortune in terms of finances but also in terms of some challenges as well right yeah and people often wonder what happens when there's like a mix of those planets going on uh in certain

areas of life and it's usually that that there's a mix of qualities that come out AC you know over time for sure for sure

um okay so let me see other ones oh yeah like this is like a this is one that's like very frequently cited but another Jupiter in the second house chart is

Bill Gates who has who was born with cancer rising and Jupiter conjunct Pluto in the second house and um Bill Gates of course at different points has been the

richest person in the world or the richest man in the world at different points over the past two decades so it's not just Jupiter but it's also conjunct

Pluto and Pluto tends to take things to the utmost extreme or it takes things to extremes so it's interesting in that case that he became not just a rich

person but like a mega rich person like the most rich person right Jupiter Pluto together especially when they're tightly together like that can often be like big big

money yeah exactly um so those are some Jupiter placements let's alternate to some Saturn placements okay so we should do one that was more

challenging but it had a good example with um Octavia E Butler okay all

right so here's her chart it's um cancer Rising with Mercury conjunct the degree of the ascendant and the ruler of the

ascendant is the moon which is placed in Leo in the second house and in the second house we also find Saturn and Pluto in a day

chart so um octivia Butler was a science fiction writer so she was a writer with Mercury conjunct the ascendant um but she was a writer who struggled with

financial issues um very early in her life with Saturn conjunct or Saturn their conjunct Pluto in the second house right right yeah she she grew up with

her mother being a house cleaner um you know they didn't have much money and then she herself ended up taking lots of temporary jobs factory jobs things like this in order to make a living until she

could make a living from her writing itself and you can see finances like a big theme here because she's got the ascendant ruler in the in the second with the moon ruling the first and the

second and also transposed the sun ruling the second in the first so she's got both of those going on so it's like making finances really important um but Saturn and Pluto there making it

challenging in the second house and also the Moon is the um Moon placed in the second Square closely Square Mars in a day chart so that's making things

challenging as well for finances um but and someone I read an interview with someone who had like looked through her journals and Diaries um and there were like lots of notes that sort of indicated notes to herself that

indicated just like Financial struggle but like aspiration as well um and one thing I loved about it though is that it said in 1978 is when she finally could

stop doing her temporary jobs and fully support herself at some level uh with her writing and 1978 was the year that Saturn the last year that Saturn was in Leo it was going back and forth between

Virgo and Leo so that was like the end of her first Saturn return which is amazing right in the second house yeah that's incredible here's here I'll share

that here's 19 can you see the by Will with 1978 yes so there's Saturn there in her second house right and so the end of her uh Saturn return would have also

been Saturn near the ascendant ruler moon in the second so just really emphasizing that being the Saturn return achievement of like Financial at least some level of financial stability

through doing her the work that she wanted to do for money instead of other of jobs right um and one of things I was reading

that was really interesting is that her novels often explored themes of power inequality and social structures and money and possessions actually frequently played a significant role um

where her Works would depict societies where wealth and resources were unevenly distributed and this led to conflict and oppression so she would often like challenge readers to consider the impact

of economic disparities and the ways in which material wealth could be used to exert control or or create social change and that's something that I love

in astrology that you can see with philosophers and writers and you know people who put their ideas out there is that it's often like the main themes will be reflected in the personal

individual natal chart because it's like you know it's showing up as very vital to you know the person as an individual and then gets expressed through their their

writings right um so one other thing that's really impressive about her is that um she was the first science fiction writer she be she made history

actually is becoming the first science fiction writer to receive the prestigious MacArthur Fellowship um and this was huge for any

science fiction writer um so that it was a great recognition of her work but it also came with a big cash like prize basically that was paid

out over five years where she was paid uh $300,000 each year for the next five years and um so there was actually at

one point a significant financial shift for her obviously her life was like a a progression of financial shifts like the one you mentioned earlier when she was in her Saturn return this one I thought was

interesting cuz I looked at the transits for when it was announced which I believe was around June 20th 1995 and transiting Jupiter was at 8° of

Sagittarius and it was retrograding back to seven degrees where it was trining her natal Saturn at seven degrees of Leo so that's another aspect of things that I want to emphasize today in some

instances sometimes we would be just be looking at the natal placement and seeing how that worked out sort of universally at different points in the life with specific instances or events that were characteristic of the life in

some instances I actually want to look at the transits and show how those second house placements were actually being activated when they were either good or bad or let's say challenging things that occurred in the person's

life in this instance she had a really positive thing happen and she was having a very positive Transit at that time to her second house Saturn right and interestingly as well Saturn rules the

eth house and there was a a different conversation or a recounting of a conversation published um online where someone asked her so what did that what

did M winning that prize do for you and she said I was able to finally buy a home in a safe neighborhood and Saturn is like the ruling ruling the eighth house which would be like the mortgage

right um to to buy a home The Eighth House often shows up uh even though the home is the fourth house because it's like the financing of the home um and it was a little sobering to me because you

she you know they were noting she would have been wealthy now um had she lived longer um but at that time it allowed her to get that Mortgage in the home but she was like still paying off the

mortgage you know so um just kind of an example of how like you know um notability like um professional notability um and the income area are

not always the same thing in the chart at all yeah for sure but it's interesting that you know the ruler of the ascendant was there in the second house so that the second house is

obviously major top throughout her life she integrated second house themes into her writings and into her works and then um but our primary we're also using it

as an example that Saturn in the second house can sometimes be difficult um especially earlier in the life um especially for her since she had a day chart Saturn tends to be something that

gets better with age and um while she had great struggles and hardships in that area with Saturn in the second house eventually became an area where things um worked out better as she got

older yeah definitely all right so that's a good example of just it's not always terrible or like the worst case scenario if you have difficult planets

like Saturn in the second house and actually I have another example of that which is my next example which is the birth chart of Warren Buffett who is a

famous who is a famous investor who has Sagittarius rising and Saturn in Capricorn in the second house in a day

chart MH so um with his I wanted to use this as an example of how you know malefics in the second house especially if they're well placed are not always the worst case scenario he's somebody

that became one of the richest people in the world um but I wanted to use as an example also

because sometimes the planets in the second house can describe one's Ori towards money but also how they go about spending money and acquiring

money so um another astrologer Beth Watson who's the wife of our you know friend and frequent show collaborator Patrick Watson um I was talking to her

about this and she said what a good example that Warren Buffett is and she sent me a paragraph which she said I could I could read so she said I think it's cool about his second house how

Saturn is there and how well that represents his trading strategy um heavy Capricorn energy he's a no fuss no frills fundamental Trader and was one of

the first to popularize Value investing or finding stocks that he believed through his analysis were worth far more than their intrinsic value some of those

stocks were a slow burn but netted him brilliant returns in the long run um and so I thought that's really important because I was looking at more about him and just his approach and he's

known for Value investing which is seeking companies that he believes are undervalued by the market and then he focuses on long-term things so he's

famous for his approach of buying and holding and emphasizing long-term gains over short-term speculation and then finally he's also very fundamentals driven where he focuses on a company's

underlying fundamentals and intrinsic value not Market hype so one last thing that Beth mentioned is

um he was born actually just before Saturn was about to station direct let me see how far you can see it yeah you can see it

in the bottom right corner of the page it says he was born about 10 days before Saturn would station direc in Capricorn which always puts a major emphasis or

like an exclamation mark next to a planet in a person's heart and Beth was saying that she looked up Buffett's secondary progressions and um because it was you

know Saturn stationed 10 days after his birth that would be Associated then in secondary progressions it means by secondary progression his Saturn Station direct when he was 10 or 11 years old

and she looked it up and he actually bought his first stock at age 11 so that's when he started investing that's so funny and like concrete and literal

um um yeah yeah isn't that incredible yeah so yeah because often times when like a secondary progressed Planet stations to go direct it'll like bring out the expression of like whatever

that's about and make it more important and show up more obviously in your life yeah for sure so obviously there's other things going on as his chart his chart is actually very Eighth House focused and that's something that comes

up majorly with investors and people that are um very wealthy um like billionaires ALS save the rest of that for like the eth House episode um but I

just wanted to show how sometimes Saturn in the second not only can if it's very well-placed like for example this is probably the most well-placed Saturn you could get in the second house because

it's you know in its own domicile it's in a day chart it's stationing direct um but how that can actually be good especially in the long term that Saturn

in the second is not necessarily terrible deal breaker per se right and how that's expressed well as if you do Saturn around that you know around that

area of Life which he has yeah exactly um all right so moving on oh yeah one of them that I found that

was really funny um was the moon in the second house I found a couple of distinctive things with the moon in the second house but one of them that was

very funny and literal was that um Martha Stewart has the moon in the second house so here is her

chart um she has Scorpio Rising with the moon in Sagittarius in the second wh Sign House the ruler of the second house is Jupiter which is in Gemini in the 8th

house in a day chart and um you know Martha Stewart the primary thing is just with the moon there in the second house that I found so fascinating is that she's known for um you know cooking for

a series of cookwar and uh cooking shows and books and also like home decorating and things like that so all these things related to the moon manifesting in the second house as

how she made her living and became like a Millionaire right and sometimes it's just as simple as that at least in terms of one of the big themes of livelihood like what is the nature of that planet

what are its significations yeah sometimes it can be as simple as that so cookbooks and magazines home decor and kitchen wear products um and different things like

that interestingly with the um the ruler of the second in the 8th house she also became very wealthy as a result of making a lot of very shrewd investments

in various businesses um let me go back to her chart there's that Jupiter in the eighth house um so she was also like an

investor um and that added to her wealth however she also got caught up and got in trouble for that at one point as well

um where she got in trouble for for trading basically and she went to jail for five months plus got two years probation due to a sort of insider

trading Scandal essentially right right so that Jupiter was generally doing you know uh good abundant things for her but there's still the shadow side that can come out

you know if you take that too far yeah where where sometimes things can get tricky and what was interesting about that is um that I found was that

Saturn was transiting her Jupiter in gini when she first made the the trade in late 2001 and then she started being investigated in early 2002 and at the

same time Pluto was going through Sagittarius her second house and was opposing her Jupiter um and there was also an eclipse in her second house around that time as well W that's a lot

so it's like even if a person has like really good placements in the second house or the eth house sometimes if you have a really tough Transit um you know in 2001 like a lot

of the astrologers associated 911 with the Saturn Pluto opposition um and for her what was interesting is that Saturn Pluto opposition was hitting her financial sector of her chart and

hitting her Jupiter so the point is just sometimes even if you have really good placements even the most fortunate or lucky people at some point in their life you know have some difficulties or run

into some challenges related to different parts of their chart and that's going to happen when you have the more challenging transits for sure do we know if she like knowingly did anything improper there or if it was like

something that she was advised to do I was just curious I I don't know it's like really it's really complicated like I have a whole thing um because part of it had to do

with her questioning and like what she said to the prosecutors um because they accused her of making non acting on non-public knowledge when they

made the trade but then the big thing I think was that they accused her of lying to it to the the feds when they came asking questions and that may have been

part of the major issues I see okay um obstruction of justice so I don't know we don't have to like get into the

details again with our not pass judgment not passing judgment um thing we can't say there's actually a few examples like that where I'm going to raise you know

speculations or different people like have speculated different way but that we don't truly know but that it is just interesting to look at the astrology and see how it's activated right right yeah

all right so let me go back to my list so we've oh yeah another one that keeps coming up kept coming up with the Moon that I

found really fascinating is collectors and people that liked to collect things right and I thought that was so hilarious because um the moon itself

that's one of its basic significations in helenistic astrology is that it collects yeah things and it receives the light of the Sun and so that it's about receiving or collecting or being

receptive to things is just a basic principle right yeah totally and it's really funny when uh that comes out literally like in a couple of these examples

yeah so that's one collection and I'll I'll show a couple examples of that another one that I need to introduce also that comes up is sometimes when

Mars is in the second house it can have to do with um taking things um or you know Mars Mars it severs and separates

as a basic principle but it also um can take things and is associated with like theft for example in ancient astrology and sometimes if it's poorly placed you

get a bad Transit can indicate like a person has an incidence of like theft where somebody steals from them um but interestingly I found an example of somebody who liked to steal things from

other people who had Mars in the second house so this is kind of an elaborate example but it was a really good one so

this is the birth chart of King Farooq of Egypt um who was the king of Egypt in the 19

30s and 40s but he ended up effectively becoming the last king of Egypt because he was overthrown and exiled from Egypt and

then ended up dying in Exile like years later living in in like in Italy I believe so for those listening to the audio version we have a chart with Libra

Rising Mars and Jupiter in Scorpio in the second house along with the North Node um Mars and the moon sorry yeah

Mars and the Moon in the North Node in Scorpio in the second house and Jupiter is in Leo in the 11th house overcoming through a superior Square those moon and

Mars placements in Scorpio um and then what else is going on here we have a nice sextile from Venus in the fourth house to some of the

Scorpio planets um but the big thing about him that came up without going into his entire biography is

um one he um he was kind of like a prankster he he grew up in ex extreme wealth um but he was kind of like he sounded almost like

a little mischievous but um he apparently with Mars in the second house he was taught at one point they caught in Egypt like somebody who was a

pickpocket and he made a deal with the pi pocket to not you know um charge him and to let him go if the pickpocket

would teach him how to pickpocket people and so the king learned how to do this but then he decided to do it on

like really famous people where he would like pickpocket um them including he used this skill on Winston Churchill at one

point to like steal one of his watches and um another person he stole a

ceremonial sword from the shaw of Iran so it's basically in his biographies it says despite his great wealth Faruk was a kleptomaniac who always took something

from something valuable such as a painting or a piano from whatever members of the Egyptian Elite that he stayed with as nobody could say no to the king and he indicated he wanted

something his subjects had to give it to him so it's true for his subjects but it's also true for like you know other high officials in like other countries like Winston Churchill was the Prime

Minister of the UK so um his second house is actually extremely well-placed in terms of at least this

being a night chart with Mars in its own domicile um yeah relatively well situated but then also we find the Moon there um in

the second house and it turned out that he was a huge collector that he had um it said that he had something of a Mania for collecting things is what one of the

biographies said um ranging from Coca-Cola bottles to European art to ancient Egyptian antiques so

um looking at my notes Here for just some of the stuff because what happened is after he was over overthrown in essentially like a military coup and he

was forced to abdicate um the Egyptian government moved to auction off his vast collection of Trinkets and treasurers and then they

just started finding that he had all of this stuff and that he had the hugest collection of a bunch of different things in the world um at that time so one of the things that he had for

example is he had the biggest coin collection in the world at that point um he also possessed a vast collection numbering into the hundreds of thousands

of um it turned out he had the largest collection of pornography in the world for example and this is in like the 1940s or 1950s um and it's you it's funny that

it's in Scorpio and it's also funny that it's like the Moon is ruling the 10th house so just imagine that that becomes one of your reputations right totally um

right yeah go ahead go ahead uh well it's just such an interesting second house right because the the moon with the the collecting and Mars is well placed in a night chart in its own sign

um so it shows that he had you know the means there he had second house you know abundance going on but he it's also Mars you know and um malefics even if they're insect it doesn't mean they turn into

like the benefic necessarily so it's like right that was some of his struggle still the desire right um yeah they to take things and also like Austin talks

about in his book on the deckin which evidently nobody has like we're very lucky people that have the first edition it's been out of print forever he talks about the first deck in of Scorpio and one of the key words he uses for it is

hunger and that actually came up very strongly in this guy's biography because they said that he had a hunger for collecting things for like

possessions and goods but also even for like eating and stuff and having like wildly opulent meals um so much so that eventually you know he did that for many

many years he became very overweight relative to the time he had this um hunger like this desire for um for women

and for sex and um had lots of different like lovers during the course of his life and that seems like it became tied in with his second house to some extent as

well right really interesting with the first deck and um because yeah I remember that signification as well but it's like he has a few different things kind of showing up to me anyway as uh

you know sort of the insatiable desire factor which is that one and then you know with that Jupiter overcoming Mars but it's in a night chart so like Mars

Jupiter can like expand the desire um and especially if it's in a night chart it's not necessarily in like useful ways you know um uh you know just sort of

greed and then um I know it doesn't always show up this way but it's really interesting that he has such a close conjunction between the Moon and the North Node in the second house in

Scorpio um because I've seen that you know the the North Node particularly of course in Indian astrology is like known as like the insatiable want the the head

that keeps wanting more right oh yeah Serpent and um but the moon right there yeah I can see that just being like an instinct of like wanting more and wanting more with a few different you

know things around his second house there right for sure um so some of the summaries I was like reading and writing were that Farooq the first of Egypt's finances were

characterized by extreme wealth and extravagance ultimately contributing to his downfall and the 1952 Revolution that overthrew the monarchy and that his finances were a

stark contrast between immense wealth and irresponsible spending that's actually something I see come up regularly with Mars in the second house Johnny Depp for example has that and

there specul ations that he may have spent like a lot of the $600 million that he made through his Hollywood career over the past few decades on on like wild extravagant spending yeah I

saw that on several different celebrities who were like known to like squander their wealth they had like Mars as well as like Jupiter going on with the second house right yeah um so it

continues it says fr's extravagance and disregard for the economic realities of his people alienated him from the public and contributed to the revolution that ultimately ended his Reign and the Egyptian monarchy so that his story

serves as a cautionary tale about the dangers of unchecked power and wealth and in terms of some of the stuff that he had when they found his Palace

and they started um discovering stuff they found that he had a collected he collected 2,000 silk shirts 10,000 silk

silk ties 50 Diamond studded golden walking sticks and and one or autographed portlet portrait from of Adolf Hitler which is kind of

weird um he elsewhere it says his obsession with collection also ranged into diamonds dogs stamps rubies Fabrie

eggs ancient Tibetan coins medieval suits of armor aspirin bottles razor blades paper clips and Geer counters that's a

Rand right it's so crazy so it's like I'm just trying to give some yeah

uh yeah show the picture right exactly um but it's like having so it's like even though Mars is well placed that moon is not well placed and obviously

that's that's potentially also part of the hunger part and part of the insatiable conjunct the North Node as you're saying but then also to just to become known for that in terms of your reputation and the mark that you leave

on the world with the moon ruling the 10th House of career I think is really notable yeah that's very straight yeah really tying together uh yeah your

public reputation at least eventually and the second house of like possessions and wealth yeah um it says the 1954 auction of his coin collection was the

biggest auction of the 20th century um so have you know having the biggest of something so this is obviously somebody who has major second house placement and whose money and

finances came up in a very very significant way one last point to mention is just um he was forced to let me do uh animate

by wheel to show you the transits know I'm spending a lot of time on this one but I found some of these ones that just I hadn't known about um I think Oro was the one that pointed this chart out to me and I'm just shocked at

how good it is and how fascinating like the lives of some of these people are yeah yeah go ahead what were you going to say I was just going to say it was a little bit of a rabbit hole I know on

the biography on this person but you know sometimes yeah you're just like so excited about you know how well the astrology fits and what what a good example this is yeah exactly so this is

the last point I want to share just that I was fascinated by because I thought it was a great example of a Transit this is the chart so you can see the by wheeel right yes so on July 26 1952 he was

forced to abdicate his throne and he was exiled in a military coup look at where Mars is Mars is in Scorpio it's transiting his second house so and he

has a day chart so so or no he has a night chart nightart nonetheless Mars is transiting his second house and it's like that was the big thing is he then

lost all of his wealth for the most part he lost all of his possessions that then get auctioned off and it all starts under this Transit of Mars through the second house yeah that's really

interesting and it's of course backed up by Saturn and Neptune transiting the first in a night chart he's yeah which which is really hard from him personally but then you know I just mentioned how the biggest auction of his coin

collection happened in 1954 look where Saturn is in 1954 Saturn goes into his second house and basically they start selling off all of his stuff

over that two or three year period wow wait was that when he was still alive or not alive yeah he stayed alive for like a while after that I mean one of the things that was weird is that they he

just had a son in 1952 right before the Revolution and they actually initially made his son King so technically his like infant son became the last king of

Egypt but then after like a year they got rid of that and just made it a a republic basically in the end of a long reign of you know monarchs ruling Egypt

yeah okay yeah so anyway that's one of the most extravagant examples actually have many other extravagant examples because I started getting into the charts of like billionaires and like the

richest people in the world um but that was one of the more interesting ones in terms of um how as we were saying sometimes planets in the second house

can describe your orientation towards middle to material things for sure yeah all right let's see if there's

other I like the uh oh go ahead what were you gonna say I like the Danny DeVito one um as a vus we don't really have Venus ones um do you have the data

for that one yeah I have it up right here okay okay so it's not on the screen yet okay there we go um so Danny DeVito um so I

know it's really interesting so natal charts have to reflect your entire life and then the timing sort of shows its unfoldment right so people often wonder what celebrities did like before they

became Super Famous um and so Danny DeVito is of course a famous actor but before he was a famous actor one of the things he did uh for income was he worked in his sister's beauty salon she

sent him to Beauty School um to cut client's hair in her salon and um so I just like that as a Venus in the second house um you know example of just like

Beauty as a general signification but one of the funnier things about it and more unique things about it was um so her Salon kind of C her the clientele just ended up being elderly women like

for the most part and he found himself in the circumstance where he would cut these very old ladies hair and then some of them would pass away and their families would know that he was like

their hairdresser and so they would ask him to do the person's hair like for their funeral and um so Danny DeVito has Venus in the second house ruled by it's

in Capricorn ruled by Saturn in the eighth house and it's just like again another funny like literal example right it's tying together the signification of beauty as like the form of income but

it's connected with the topic of mortality literally with Saturn in the eth house both the Eighth House governing the topic of mortality and Saturn as a general significator of old

age and death and uh I thought that was like a fascinating fascinating one yeah that's incredible yeah oh Saturn also rules the second and third so you often

see topics tied together of how that are ruled by the same planet um and so it was literally his sister's salon and she was the one who pushed him to go to beauty school and I think may be paid

for it um and so Saturn's tying together the topics of the second house of income and the third house of siblings nice yeah that's something that we're going to see a lot of that you have to pay attention to both of the

houses the planet rules and then it will often import those significations into the second house or alternatively that you have to pay attention to both houses is that the ruler of the second rules as

well as the house that it's located in and it will tie those together M exactly the astrology software that we use on the astrology podcast is called

solar fire for Windows and you can get a 15% discount on the software by using the promo code ap15 when you purchase it through

al.com for Mac users we recommend the program Astro gold for Mac OS and you can also get a 15% discount when you Ed

the promo code astrop podcast 15 at the website astr gold. all right we're back from break so

gold. all right we're back from break so I want to quickly go through a few more planet examples in order to round this out so one of them I want to talk about

quickly is um Bernie Madoff who had Leo rising and Neptune in the second house of money and possessions and he was

actually known for um committing the largest Ponzi scheme in history which was a form of financial fraud essentially right exactly that's when

you get um new investors or new victims of the case may be to pay off um what you owe to the old older people right so it's like you get people to invest in something you take their

money and then you spend it and then in order to pay back the person you just took the money from you get somebody else to invest money and then you take their money and give it to the first person exactly yeah so um I thought that

was interesting just in terms of the the deceptive quality of Neptune and for him he used it obviously negative negatively there in his second house there's other stuff going on in his chart as well like

he has retrograde Mercury ruling it Square Pluto um but interestingly you actually found another relevant chart for that because you found you found

another one right yeah the Char chart of charl Ponzi himself surprisingly there was a birth time for um who was of course who the Ponzi scheme you know

famously was named after he was like the first guy um not probably not the first guy in history to do this but you know he was the first guy who like notably was really famous for doing this and

then um you know had this this phenomenon named after him sort of Infamous Legacy there it is it's taking me a

minute to find it but here's the chart um so this one um it's more about the ruler of the second so this one is a

night chart um North Node in the second Jupiter is ruling it in a night chart placed in the seventh House of like the other party the other person um it's

somewhat closely conjunct Pluto it's a it's a Jupiter Pluto conjunction which we've talked about big money um but it's a night chart Jupiter so that can be a little bit of an overabundance without

Foundation um Neptune interesting in terms of just the that the Madoff had like the ruler of the second Square Pluto and here we find Charles Ponzi with the ruler of the second conjunct

Pluto and just the manipulative component of Pluto sometimes yeah and also just making things even bigger um which is a you know Jupiter Pluto thing

um and so he's also got Neptune and Saturn in the seventh as well so he's got a big seventh house stellium you know uh with the ruler of the second house and I just thought that was really

funny and evocative in terms of the nature of the Ponzi scheme you know the phenomenon is just getting more and more people involved and right like you just always need like new clients new you

know clients victims and that's just like what is Jupiter Pluto in the seventh but like you know lots and lots of people um so and of course Saturn there is not great um because it is a

night chart Neptune is there for the elusory aspect uh and so forth and interestingly Pluto's squaring the mid Heaven as well um

exactly yeah for sure so just Jupiter in the ruler of the second and the seven and like in his instance like taking money from other people right and it

became big money but then of course you know it was a losery and then he lost the entire thing right for sure all right that's pretty good um other ones

that there was something about that one um it was actually in a second surprisingly for how famous this is um it all happened within less than a year in 1919 and

1920 and um when this all went down he was when he started it he was 37 which is a second house Perfection year which I thought was perfect so it's really

highlighting that stellium that year nice so yeah it activated that Jupiter which is in the seventh house that sometimes in terms of just doing research to take a step back as a meta

thing like a good way to confirm sometimes when you think you know you're looking at a natal chart signature placement that means something to then look at the the transits and the Perfections to see if that was activated

at the time of the event that it occurred and that can often act as a good confirmation that you are looking at the right signature in the chart

exactly nice nice all right um that's good um other examples one of the ones that was interesting um this is one I just found

that we had a birth time before recently because she died recently but Dr Ruth um who was like a f famous just like a writer basically as well as like talk

show host and radio show host she was born with Gemini rising with Mercury ruling the ascendant placed in uh cancer in the second wh Sign House conjunct

Pluto and squaring Mars and Uranus um and uh the basic point for this just in terms of a planet example is just that she was primarily like a writer and a speaker and that's how she made her

money um she also was known for being very Frank or blunt and not shying away from saying things or getting into topics that were taboo especially for

the time and I think that's where um those other planetary connections with Mercury are coming out with like Pluto and willing to talk about taboo things

Mars Square Mercury is can be very blunt sometimes too much at times and squaring Uranus um can bring a a like Rebel sort

of quality to the person's communication style mhm right and it's it's funny because of course now that's not as taboo but you know the this Char of showing the context of her life and

earlier on it certainly was um and you'll find that you know with any planets co-present even if they're not super close by conjunction yeah it absolutely like was taboo at the time like in then

especially like the 1980s or even 90s when she was talking about some of that stuff it was like seen as very like risque exactly yeah so that's good um

all right looking at my other examples I wanted to mention um yeah lilan benen Court who was the richest person richest

woman in the world for a period of time and uh she was born with Scorpio rising and Venus in the second house and she

was the heir to the L'Oreal um makeup and cosmetics Empire basically and I thought that was a brilliant that her her income and stuff

came through makeup and cosmetics and she became the richest woman the in the world at one point through that with Venus in the second house right right and of course you know she also has both

benefics connected since Jupiter is ruling um which reinforces the like the positivity of her second house but yeah just the nature of Venus as a general significator for

beauty yeah so she was a French Harris social light and businesswoman she does have that Mutual reception with the 12th house and that that at one point you know I just learned about her as I was doing this research and decided to

research her biography and I was really curious because she has that strong connection between Venus is in the second house but it's ruling the seven the seventh House of relationships as well as the 12th House of of lost

enemies and self undoing and I was wondering how that 12th house played in because there's such a strong connection there and um what came up is that in the last few Decades of her life she got in

some kind of connection or relationship with this guy who was like a photographer and

um her daughter eventually had to um contact the police and and basically press police charges because um he thought his she thought her mother was

being taken advantage of by this man who ended up she ended up gifting him millions and millions of dollars worth of gifts and stuff I think it totaled to end up being like a billion dollars or

like something crazy like that and the courts eventually did um decide that yeah it was estimated so it

says she gave him huge amounts of money and gifts over the years estimated to be worth $1.3 billion and these gifts included among other things a life insurance policy

worth 253 million in 2003 another insurance policy which worth 262 million in 2006 11 works of art in 2001 valued

at $20 million including paintings by Picasso matis mandran and a bunch of others a photographed by surrealist Man

Ray and cash so her daughter eventually filed a criminal complaint saying her mother was being exploited as a result of a psychological weakness by this guy and her Butler feared that b in court

was suffering from from Alzheimer's disease and was being duped at one point she even attempted to make the guy her sole Heir um but then eventually she separated with him and wrote him out of

her will and not long after that she was put under a guardianship due to her declining mental health so I thought that was incredible

because you know some of those 12th house things really came alive there including mental health stuff including potentially like people that are working against you or sometimes self undoing

like when you're doing something yourself that's undermining you but you don't realize it as well as Venus ruling the seventh House of relationships for sure pulling together

the the topics of the second house and the seventh um into like the self- undoing or loss it's interesting also that stellium in Libra and that um you

know so a lot of that was like uh really valuable artwork uh that was being given away um as well as like the life and insurance policy in Mercury ruling the

eth um placed in that cellum in the 12th exactly and I actually I've come across that a few times and I'll do that as the next example but where sometimes

the quality of the sign can describe like what the person spends money on or what the expense is and Le Libra keeps coming up as like art and paintings

especially um Madonna is a lot of is a really great example of that that I'll share next who has um Jupiter in Libra in the second house and she spent more than she has over a

hundred million dollars worth of Art and especially paintings that she says is like an Indulgence of her spending money

on Art nice yeah so I want to talk about that [Music] um

her we actually have the the um chart of the daughter that I was just talking about which is really fascinating her name is franois B and Court Meyers she's actually currently the richest woman in

the world um what was interesting though about this is um she's more kind of like academic and kind of nerdy and she's written a few books um and it's interesting because you see both of her

benefics in the third house including the ruler of her second um and she's written a book on like the G genealogy of of the Greek gods which is really

fascinating as well as some some Bible commentaries because she's interested in religion um with the r the ruler of the ninth in the thir house um but then we

see the ruler of her ascendant with Aries Rising is that Mars in cancer in the fourth house conjunct the Sun and the Moon and Uranus and a lot of that is just descriptive of the the fights she

had basically with her mother in the later part of her life and especially in terms of getting her mother to relinquish control and and who was struggling with these mental issues and

being taken advantage of this guy but they had very public disputes as a result of of the attempts I think to to fix that um she was born actually the

day before a solar eclipse in cancer and it shows up very prominently in her chart yeah wow that's really striking especially with amar's kazee it's like rule you know it's amar's Sun con tight

conjunction ruling her ascendant and then placed in the fourth so that's like a a huge piece of like her life's journey um and life's focus and that those are like fairly closely Square

Saturn uh it's a night chart even though you know it's Saturn exalted so there's mitigation there of course but it is still Saturn in a night chart so yeah that looks actually kind of rough yeah

it's interesting sometimes how like the chart can show something being rough that's like a focus of the person's life even if you think outwardly like oh they look like they have it made right they have lots of money and so forth but this

is like no but the focus has been like you know a real challenge around family yeah they had some very public um

disputes and spats and like some very negative things were said in the public um especially if the mom towards her her daughter and

stuff interesting yeah so um I thought those are interesting just in terms of as I was going through I was trying to find not just some of the richest men in

the world like you know Bill Gates or um what the other investor that we did but also some of the richest women in the world and finding that we actually had birth charts for some of them which is fascinating yeah for sure we have

Mackenzie Scott coming up I don't know where you put that but yeah yeah um that is an amazing one Let's do let's talk about Madonna since I just mentioned her

and then we'll let's do McKenzie Scott because that's an amazing one yeah okay um you know it's hard I meant to say just um birth data collections for some

reason tend to be skewed towards men and we have more timed birth charts for men this is starting to be rectified but part of that is also part of due to the

historical thing of men of women not being able to you know pursue careers or receive the same education as men or other things and and for whatever reason

a lot of our birth out is skewed towards men due to some of that those historical realities that's finally starting to be rectified but sometimes um you know it

can create aberration when you're doing studies and doing searches in databases and most of the charts that are coming up in are men uh but I'm trying to do my best to offset that um here in this

episode going forward right it's really tricky when you like just think of people you find interesting personally and you really want to use their charts and their women but they don't always have you know exact birth times and so

you just can't do as much uh astrologically with the example yeah exactly because if I don't have a birth time I can't do this sort of study in terms of looking at the rulers of the houses and then sometimes it's like what

do you do do you use the chart of the best example of you that you have um and then sometimes you end up with more men than women or um yeah It's

Tricky all right so Madonna we were GNA talk about Madonna I became obsessed with Madonna I spent like a whole I spent at least a day researching Madonna's life because

the more and more I looked into her chart the more blown away I was at how well the astrology Works yes this was another whole rabbit hole and you can

now do an entire uh separate episode on Madonna astrology I very well could I know there's many astrologers that are also M Madonna fans that would join me for that but um yeah it became

fascinating because I didn't know a lot about her biography I knew like a little bit I I had avoided using her chart in the past because I thought there was more birth time issues and I know she has public statements out there saying that her birth time is unknown but it

actually seems like there's actually a pretty good source for this time for virto Rising so this is somewhat tentative and most of these I've tried really hard to stick with ablea birth

times which are birth times where we know it's from a birth certificate or birth record which additionally restricts you know which charts you can use um because I I try to stick to

Reliable ones so this one's a little bit more speculative than usual but I think it works really well so here's her chart majan was born with Virgo Rising um Mercury

conjunct the ascendant in Virgo retrograde um and her second house is Libra and we find Jupiter conjunct the

North Node in Libra in her second house in a day chart um so just off the bat we would expect Financial things to do well and

and indeed um she achieved phenomenal success throughout her career um being referred to different points is the the Queen of Pop and she's the bestselling

female recording artist of all time and has sold over 300 million records worldwide so there's a little bit of a discrepancies here because now we've

moved over the past 10 years into the age of like streaming and I think I don't know I don't I think that affects then like those records in terms of who's the highest selling person of all

time because people stream stuff now they don't necessarily Buy stuff so I don't exactly know how that worked out but at least in terms of the lists like if you go to Wikipedia or elsewhere for

highest selling artists of all time um she is the number one woman at this point um additionally she's had many other Financial successes and like

record holds many records including the first woman to accumulate $1 billion in concert Revenue because she was doing just these amazing concert runs in in

especially the 1980s and '90s and 2000s so that she was essentially like you know nowadays we have beyon and Taylor Swift doing that and doing these amazing concert runs and making tons and tons of

money but it's like Madonna was Beyonce or Taylor Swift before all of that like in the 1980s and 90s right yeah definitely yeah so um her net worth is

actually estimated to be around $850 million making her one of the wealthiest musicians in the world like period um

not just because of her success um in terms of of music and concerts but also in terms of being a very smart and Savvy businesswoman in terms of her

investments in terms of other merchandising things that she's gotten into and things like that so the thing that I thought was interesting for my purposes is that she

owns she said to own over aund Million worth of art that she's actually an art collector and um that's actually I think that's the estimate it may it may she

may actually own way more than that but I think that's the Baseline that she owns at least hundred million of worth of art it may actually be um significantly higher than that so she

collects art and I saw her say in an interview that that paintings are are very big Indulgence of indulgences of hers so Jupiter is in Libra ruled by

Venus which is in Leo um and she said that early on before she was super successful that she kind of promised to herself where she said that once she made her first million

dollars that she would buy art and paintings so this is like one of her life goals that she then manifested and um just to give you like an idea of what

that means she actually owns a self-portrait by Freda Koo um which is one of the five paintings that painted

while she lived in Detroit titled self-portrait with a monkey um she also owns Freda Ko's painting my birth and I was blown away when I saw that because those are actually two really famous

paintings at this point that like everyone's seen and she actually owns The Originals yeah um she also owns a painting um from Salvador Dolly she owns

his the veiled heart and just tons and tons of other stuff so in terms of like planet examp exles I thought that was really interesting just in terms of

um Jupiter being there being super successful financially and then what one decides to spend their money on in some instances coming through the nature of the sign and its

ruler and for her it's both you know how she makes a living is through music which is another Venus thing you know Venus ruling the that Libra placement um and then also what she spends her money

on as well um and it's interesting you know Venus is the ruler of that Jupiter in the second in a day chart and it's in the 12th which you would expect to be a little more challenging at least at

certain times in life but it's nicely mitigated at least if this exact time is you know pretty correct because it's within it's almost within 3 degrees Yeah it's like just a hair outside um the sex

tile to the mid Heavens that's that's helping things out oh yeah no it's it's mitigated by the mid Heaven I think that's why it works so well so and that's that's what I wanted to get into next was Venus because like once I saw

that and I I first discovered you know how successful she was financially she was the first woman in 1990 1990 she became the first woman entrepreneur to

appear on a Forbes Magazine cover on October 1st 1990 um get this transiting Venus moved into her second house that

day and sexiled her natal Venus that's funny yeah I thought that was I thought that was pretty pretty on the nose so I was excited by that and but

then I started asking the question you know like with Lil and Bing court with the previous example the the richest woman in the world owned l'oral but she had issues because the ruler of

the second was in the 12th House of enemies and self undoing I was like well you know how do that come up for Madonna because the initial delineation I had in my head just doing the basic

analysis just doing the basic analysis of the chart is that the ruler of the second house of finances is in the 12th House of enemies or self undoing and

that Venus also rules the ninth House of religion philosophy and foreign travel and Mars we find Mars there in a day chart as her most difficult planet is in

the ninth House of Rel religion philosophy and and foreign travel and it's overcoming Venus through a Superior Sign base Square so I was like I didn't really know how that worked and so I

started looking through her biography and then I found this amazing incident of that instance of that which is the Pepsi commercial Fiasco of

1989 so are you familiar with this well I am from talking with you but but I remember the videos I I definitely remember the videos

firsthand okay well the key point is that she um struck up a deal with Pepsi

in 1989 in order to do um some commercials and they were going to pay her $5 million um for just this two-minute commercial

featuring her song that hadn't been released yet like a prayer and they were also going to like sponsor

her tour um so it was like this huge deal and like $5 million in 1989 is equivalent to almost like $12 million at least in 2024 so this was super big

money for the time um it was setting all sorts of of records and stuff and pep put a lot into it um but but what's really funny is they didn't

watch the music video for the song before it was released and so Pepsi in 1989 at the Grammy Awards on February

22nd 1989 they they aired like a preview of um their commercial so not even the full commercial just like a preview of the commercial to like build hype up to this commercial with her that they're

about to release and then um early the following month they released the commercial which is this cute little um two-minute commercial

where it's like going back and forth between like a younger and older version of herself and it's like a younger version of herself who's like kicking back and enjoying a Pepsi and she's um

watching an adult version of herself like being all successful in being this huge um you know rock star basically so it's like like uncontroversial little

commercial and it has Snippets of her song Like a Prayer in it um before the single had actually come out so it was actually unique because it was the first time that music from an artist had been

used like in a commercial before the release of the actual song right um but then what happens is that

um the day after the commercial came out she then dropped the actual music video for the song like a prayer and the song

the music video had like burning crosses in it and it had a bunch of religious imagery that um a bunch of Christians

found thought was Blasphemous and it caused this huge like Firestorm of controversy amongst Christian groups including going all the way up to the

pope uh John Paul II who said that it was Blasphemous um and yeah it was actually pretty wild because it created a whole controversy Christian groups then

announced that they were going to boycott Pepsi um and Pepsi got so freaked out that they completely pulled the commercial but they let her keep the $5

million so I thought that was interesting because it perfectly ties together um the themes here that we're talking about where it's like you have

Jupiter in the second house you know five $5 million for for a commercial um but then Venus is ruled by the ruling the second it's placed in the 12th of

self undoing so it's like she does something that kind of like undo that deal in addition to Mars being in the ninth house which ironically like if you read some of the ancient delineations

from like Ficus maternis and stuff and other ancient astrologers they talk about Mars in the ninth house being Blasphemous or people that do blasphemy since the 9th house is the place of

religion and and God and philosophy and things like that MH um but then it still works out for her because Venus is mitigated and it's sextile the degree of

the mid heaven and she's basically ends up getting to keep the $5 million and if anything the controversy and the fact that she um created all these enemies

from these Christian groups it may have actually helped her sales during that time because the controversy in some ways helped like promote the the music video and the single and everything else

and the sing Single ended up going on to be wildly successful right the notoriety kind of fed into the positive things in her chart um surrounding her

livelihood uh which is funny uh yeah I remember that happening and it's also um it was also a bigger deal back then like the fact that it was like uh you

know an outrage to Christian groups this was more of a mainstream reaction back then compared to like how it would be now um like her and Chen Conor and some of those people who you know really

pissed off like an orthodox Rel um you know that was a bigger deal sort of widespread through Society marginal thing well some of it

was you know frankly because it was like racism tinged with it a little bit because part of it was like in the video she has like a black possibly man

who's either a saint or is actually supposed to be Jesus um and then she's like vaguely I don't know cressing him at one point so it's not clear if

there's like sexual undertones the song itself has some sexual innuendo in it which is also interesting in terms of Mars being the planet of sex in the nth House of religion and how she sometimes

intertwines those themes in in some of her work so it's like some of the yeah there there are a lot of different things going on there in terms of why it was um controversial and how

much things have changed since then actually it's funny that you mentioned that so given mentioning that um the last piece of I wanted to mention is last year in

2023 um at the very end of the Venus retrograde in Leo remember her Venus is needly retrograde in Leo is need needly in Leo as the ruler of her second house

as well as the end of a Mercury retrograde on September 12th 2023 Madonna and Pepsi later aired the full

commercial again at the 202 three MTV Video Music Awards and um it was that Venus retrograde and Mercury retrograde and she was literally like revisiting

the past and revisiting this past controversy but this time she was kind of like coming out Triumph triumphant so let me show you the transits of that because the transits

are just too perfect that's funny it's funny and I also want to mention while you're pulling that up the reception between Venus and Jupiter um you know is also really helping the fact that it's

doing well um even though it's in the 12th totally that there's a they're exchanging sign sort of mutual reception which creates a sort of uh not a mutual

re not mut reception oneway reception right yeah but it's reception with like you know the um benefic of sect so yeah

for sure um so these are the transits for September 12 2023 when they re re-release the commercial so Mercury is

at 8 degrees of Virgo and it's like a day or two away from stationing direct at 8 8 degrees of Virgo right on her ascendant at 8 degrees of Virgo so this is one of the reasons why I think this

time is correct and I don't know why she's saying birth time's unknown this seems like an accurate birth time I saw a couple other instances of major events in her life lining up with that

ascendant degree so think about it's like Mercury retrograde you revisiting the past but Mercury stationing Direct on the ascendant then look at look at Venus this is September 12th so this is

just like a week after Venus station direct at 12 degrees of Leo so remember that last summer all the Venus retrograde stuff this turns out to be another example of that it's stationing

Direct on her Uranus and then um finally Jupiter is also stationing at that time or is close

to stationing at that time and it's right at 15 degrees of Taurus so it's right on top of her Mars at 15 degrees of Taurus which was the source of like the issue to begin with which was um you

know the the perception at least that she was committing blasphemy that's funny yeah yeah that lines up perfectly and listen to what

she said um because it it was very like Venus retrograde stationing on her Uranus so the new the new version of the ad that Pepsi released it ends with a

graphic that says celebrating 40 Years of disrupting the status quo and then on Twitter at the time when it was re-released she said so began my

illustrious career as an artist refusing to compromise my Artistic integrity artists are here to disturb the peace so

yeah it's that um you know the Venus Uranus but also Mars like in Taurus and like her Artistic integrity I thought that was just brilliant that yeah that Venus

co-present with Uranus ruling the second house of like how she makes a living yeah exactly yeah cuz she was even even you know the religious controversies aside like you know she was always like

kind of pushing the edge of you know what was considered like acceptable back then um you know even just through sexuality and stuff um you her other

videos were as well right yeah um the only other thing with her just very briefly is that she has um that Jupiter is ruling the seventh House

of marriage and relationships and um she's been married a couple of times but she was when she was divorced from the filmmaker guy

Richie in 2008 it was reported to be one of the most expensive celebrity divorces in history with estimates suggesting a settlement between 76 and 92

million so that's a signature that I kept seeing come up when the ruler of the seventh was in the second or sometimes when the ruler of the second was in the seventh that sometimes um

especially when it was a more Chen in placements but sometimes even with not that sometimes there would be like a very um costly divorce at some point with with some of these different people

so Ste Steven Spielberg is a really great example of that with the ruler of the second was Saturn in a night chart ruling the seventh and they had a prenuptial agreement but it was thrown

out by the judge because it was written on a napkin for some bizarre reason okay and and then that was like one of the most costly celebrity divorces in

history and then um Johnny Carson was actually another one of those who he had um Venus hold on let me find

it yeah it comes up a lot uh that connection between the second and seventh either way yeah because it's like it's like if if they're connected it means that somehow the partner's

finances are tied in or the that the marriage and relationships are tied in with your finances or vice versa um and some of those times

especially when it's um Orly placed it is a challenge that comes up and and one of the most obvious

ways that that can manifest is through divorce and through splitting of the assets right and sometimes it's just like a challenging Transit coming about and then that's like a one-time thing in

the person's life that where they're otherwise doing fine financially yeah and I've I've commonly used that as an example because somebody originally challenged me on it with um

Steven Spielberg you know because he has cancer rising and he has Saturn conjunct Pluto in the second house in a in a night chart so it's supposed to be his most difficult Planet but somebody was

like see the concept of sect doesn't work because he's you know he's a millionaire he's very rich so obviously Saturn and the second is not giving him problems um but then I looked through

his biography and I found this weird incident in the 1980s where he had this bizarre Celebrity Divorce and it ended up being the most costly Celebrity

Divorce in history at that time and Saturn is ruling the seventh House of of relationships and the Eighth House of other people's money or specifically

like the partner's money right yeah his money seems to be coming about maybe like through the place of acquisition or something right showing more of the

positives yeah I mean there can be other there's like multiple other things going on in his chart in terms of that but um sometimes that's one of the important points in the research that sometimes

these placements can show um specific events that happen in the Life at some point when they get activated and sometimes those can be like onetime events but they still even

though they only happen one time they're still really important um other times it can be an event that happens like two or three times in the life um so that it's not continuous but the fact that the person has a similar experience

archetypally in that area two or three times still becomes very distinctive especially if it's something that doesn't happen to all people for example right that's the tricky thing about the natal chart needing to represent your

entire lifetime um is that you also have to use timing on top of that to show kind of like what's happening at different times in your life yeah

exactly um Let me give the Carson example even though it's obviously a lot but because it had a Transit connection so with

Johnny Carson he had Scorpio Rising he was a talk show host he was like very very successful financially successful talk show host um Taurus is on the sth

house the place of relationships it's in the second house of finances it also rules the 12th house he was married four times and his second and third divorces

were very costly um so his divorce from his third wife was finalized in 1985 and it was said to be one of the most expensive celebrity divorces at the

time costing Carson an estimated $200 million so this is a nice comparison with Steven Spielberg and Lillian Bing Court then because it's again the ruler of the seventh and

thei um so they split in 1983 but their divorce settlement wasn't completed until 1985 and later that year Saturn went

into Sagittarius which is his second house so I can't find the date for the settlement but I think that's really you know notable that Saturn went into the

second house um sort of timing that transit to that placement to some extent for sure yeah that makes sense yeah all

right I think that's good for planet in houses examples even though obviously we've gotten into rulers at this point um we've covered all the the planet and

house ones M sounds good all right um unfortunately it's almost I know it's almost two hours we haven't going for an hour but I think we should take another short break okay if you're really looking to deepen

your studies of astrology then check out my helenistic astrology course which is an online course in ancient astrology it's perfect for beginner and intermediate students because I take

people from basic concepts up through intermediate and Advanced Techniques for reading birth charts there's over 100 hours of video lectures including monthly webinars and Q&A

sessions and at the end of the course if you complete the final test you'll receive a certificate of completion saying that you studied with me you can find out more information at the astrology

school.com all right we're back from break so I want to transition at this point we' finished talking about planets in the second house for the most part even though that was incomprehensive it gives you a taste of some of the

different ways that can manifest I want to talk about now the ruler of the ascendant in the second house so in some previous examples um previous episodes

I've talked about how the ruler of the ascendant can tell you something about the native's overall life Direction uh because the first house was called the helm in ancient astrology like the

steering wheel of a ship and then the ruler of the ascendant um was kind of like the captain of the ship that would direct you um to a specific destination so some times when the ruler

of the ascendant is located in a different H in a specific house in the chart the topics associated with that house can have some broader impact on

the overall direction of the native's life and um that comes up in this instance when the ruler of the ascendant is in the second house there's something about money and finances that can become

more important in terms of the overall life Direction than it is for other people right so we've already seen that a little little bit with Octavia Butler

right right yeah she had the ruler of the ascendant in the second and the ruler second in the first and it really reinforced that finances were like a a primary thing she needed to focus on For Better or

Worse right and there was like challenges that came with that with Saturn and Pluto there in the second house but um ultimately it was like also

something that then informed some of the themes in her books and her writings and stuff right yeah and people can have that Focus uh come about through a variety of means you know some people

really just like want to make money for instance if the ascendant ruler is in the second that's not how it works for everyone you know for other people the ascendant ruler in the second will show

that finances are like a primary challenge in life and that's like a big piece of their sort of ongoing biography um yeah for other people it shows that

they're actually focused on the topic of finances or money like in whatever they do in the world um so there's different ways that that can play out yeah for

sure so okay so this is like the alltime example of this like the best example um people have been using it for over a century now but I rediscovered it

recently because i' had forgotten about it but it's still like the most amazing example of that so it turns out that Carl Marx that we have a birth time for

him and he was born with Aquarius rising and Saturn in Pisces in the second whol Sign House in a night chart um and basically Carl marks has

the ruler of the ascendant in the second house how freaking perfect is that no I love it I I refound that as well a couple years ago when we were getting ready to do the year ahead when Saturn was going to go into Pisces so I was

looking for Saturn and Pisces people and that was just yeah perfect because like his entire life's work was about the financial you know finance and labor

basically yeah that he he analy the role of money and capital in society and his primary concerns were social and economic equalities that he observed

under capitalism um preface I'm not super familiar with the work of KL Marx like I know there's many people that are and are much more well read in this area

of philosophy and economics and everything else so I'm going to preface that because like I I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert in this area and I don't have any strong opinions um

I just think it's an amazing example because we know his is a rare case where we have an example of somebody where we know the

that the topic of money and finances and possessions that his life actually had a huge impact on the world not just in his

personal life where he was focused on that topic in his writings um but also um that it ended up having an

impact for many millions of people in different countries and on world history in terms of that topic as well right for sure and that was a night chart right yeah it's a night chart so that's one of

the things that's interesting is he actually struggled financially throughout his life and that was part of his um motivation and and and sort of

insight into what he ended up creating right for sure um yeah and it's kind of like then the focus was like on not just his own problems financially but like

the problems that go wrong in society with financial Arrangements yeah so here let me put the chart back up again because so first let's look at the chart because there's

other things going on with that Saturn so it's in the second house it's co-present with Pluto so we're talking about a Saturn Pluto conjunction in the second house similar to Octavia Butler

okay that's interesting and also just it reminds me of like you know when Co hit the Saturn Pluto conjunction is like a large part of what astrologers associate with that conjunction in 2020 um and

some of the wild economic things that it did at the time so his SATs at 15 degrees of Pisces it's squaring the mid Heaven at 13 degrees of Sagittarius

which I think is interesting in the 11th house um and the ruler then is Jupiter ruling both the second house of finances and the 11th House of friends alliances

and groups and of course he famously um it was when he got together um and had the support of Frederick Eng Les he did some of his most important

work together was with that as a as a sort of like Alliance right um so Saturn's squaring the mid Heaven it's also squaring Uranus at 19 degrees of um Sagittarius and it's

kind of widely squaring Neptune at 26 degrees of Sagittarius right so speaking to like you know the desired change in structures of society around Finance finances um

as well as kind of the collectiveness uh of of Neptune being tied into um Saturn in the second yeah and then one thing that I thought was

interesting is um the ruler of his tenple sign house he has Scorpio on the tenple sign house so it's ruled by Mars the 10th House of career and reputation

and Mars is in the sixth house which is like traditionally the place of work um those who are subservient to you or subordinate to you um but also more

broadly you could say it's the sixth house is the place of Labor yeah so it's like the two most important planets in his chart are like the ruler of the ascendant which is in the place of money and finances and possessions and the

ruler of the tenth which is in the place of Labor yeah it's perfect and then those are trying each other so um it's just like this this was the focus of his life's work um something that I really

loved in addition to that in terms of literal astrology because I love literal astrology is um a big piece of his work was about the alienation of Labor and again I'm also

not a Carl Carl marks expert but I know that this was like a big piece was the alienation of Labor and the alienation from the means of production and things like that and I just thought that was so

so good with he has you know the ruler of the second in the 12th house right and so you know which certainly sounds like that and then Mars is um in cancer

so it's like opposite the sign that it's exalted in right so it's in its fault and um just yeah sometimes like just the alienation of being like in the farthest

place it could be from the place it's happiest in right and then that's in the sixth house of Labor which is like perfect yeah definitely um he was also

born the day of a solar eclipse in Taurus which is also relevant um let me read you some of the notes I wrote that are relevant so it says um Marx lived

much of his life in poverty so Saturn and the second house in a in a night chart often relying on financial support from friends and family most notably

fredi friederick Eng Les so Jupiter ruling both the second house and the 11th house his Focus was on his intellectual work writing extensively on

philosophy economics and politics he dedicated his life to understanding and critiquing the capitalist system with the ultimate goal of advocating for a more Equitable Society um therefore

while Marx is working explored the complexities of money and its impact on society his personal life was not uh driven by a desire for material wealth um he spent most of his adult life in

London living in poverty and struggling to support his family and yeah he wrote very widely but his primary focus was on understanding and critiquing the capitalist economic

system right that's a great chart yeah so there's a lot more we could go into and say about that and and but I just um in terms of that General point of like when we say sometimes like the ruler of

the ascendant can tell you that a person's life in some instances can be more directed towards a specific topic compared to other people you know that is probably the most extreme example

that we could come up with yeah absolutely all right so let's look at some other examples of

ruler of the ascendant in the second house um okay so that one yeah yeah that would be a good

one okay so another one that I found when I was doing this research um is McKenzie Scott um who was

the former wife of amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos and what happened is like a few years ago McKenzie Scott was in the

news because when she divorced Jeff Bezos when they got a divorce um she walked away with like billions of

dollars which she then started donating like extremely rapidly and her chart is fascinating because she was born with Aries rising and the ruler of the

ascendant is Mars which is located in Taurus in the second whol Sign House along with a whole stellium of other planets in Taurus which includes Mercury

Venus the moon Saturn and then of course Mars all in the second house right so this is someone who just like a huge huge focus on um

finances yeah so to put it in context so they divorced in 2019 it was not not like one of the most celebrity costly celebrity divorces literally the most

costly Celebrity Divorce in history and this the settlement was estimated to be 38 billion dollar so it's like remember we were talking about some of those

other like movie stars and it was like you know 20 billion 2020 million was high for Carson at the time or or Madonna it was like 50 to 75 or

something like that like 100 million maybe even Tops This is$ 38 billion doar so as a result of that McKenzie Scott came out of her divorce as the third

wealthiest woman in the United States and the 47th wealthiest individual in the entire world so later um in 2020 the stock

price of Amazon went up and for a period in 2020 she actually became the wealthiest woman in the world but what's interesting about it is that after the divorce she became a major

philanthropist and she just started giving away tons and tons of money like billions and billions of dollars so that she gave away so much money that she stopped being the richest woman in the

world and she pledged to give away at least half of her wealth yeah it's really impressive and one of the things I found interesting about the transits is that Uranus was

like at the end of Aries slash beginning of Taurus like um around the beginning of all this happening and so that's a great Point what we've seen is like

Uranus going over all of those many tourist placements and that rapidly changing what she's doing with her finances that's that's a great Point

yeah and and in some ways doing something that's considered very very unusual right um cuz even like most very wealthy people don't give away as much as like she's been giving away um yeah

so it's really activating all of that something else I love about this stellium is you know you see that this is a um you know this is a day chart and she

does have Mars ruling the ascendant in the second along with all those other placements and normally um when you see Mars in the second like in a lot of these other examples you seen like like

spending a lot right that's so that's so funny yeah because like with with like Johnny Depp who I mentioned I didn't show his chart earlier he's just he's spent so much so extravagantly that he's

depleted most of his wealth but you're you're right she's done the same thing except like she's doing it mostly to like Charities right and it's like Mars is like spending a lot but that Mars

actually I was looking at like what it's applying to and um you know once it hits the sign boundary it is kind of opposite Neptune um right it's like what 8

degrees applying um and Mars Neptune is like you know uh efforts that are selfless sometimes like sometimes people will do like humanitarian stuff with Mars Neptune certainly there's other

combo other manifestations as well but that's like one primary one um so anyway yeah like funny like she's spending a lot but in laudable ways

right yeah well she so I'm looking at some of this stuff in just to give you an idea in a July 2020 medium post Scott announced that she had donated $1.7

billion to 116 nonprofit organizations with a focus on Racial equality lgbtq plus equality democracy and climate change then in December 2020 less than

six months later Scott stated that she had donated a further 4.15 billion to the previous in the previous four months to 384 organizations with a focus on providing

support to people affected by the economic impact of the covid-19 pandemic and addressing long-term systemic inequities

um in 2020 her charitable giving totaled 5.8 billion one of the largest annual distributions by a private individual to working

Charities um there's so much stuff like it goes on and on and on um you mention I mean it's funny because you mentioned Mars but it's like Mars is also ruling

the eighth house which is like the part money it's like she's spending our joint joint finances yeah joint finance and that's kind of an argument because it's like she was there from the very beginning she helped him to found the

country the company of Amazon she worked there very early on so it's it's you know there's other instances where somebody comes in like later in a person's life um after they've made all their money and then there's a divorce

and then it gets murky but this is really like she was there from from the very beginning right like even the roller of our fourth is in the um second and uh applying to conjoin Saturn and

the ruler of the 10th House of career and like they literally founded the company in their garage like in their new hes garage so yeah it was definitely

joint finances um and Jupiter's also in the Eighth House in her chart right in a day chart so that's like the best placement but she also has like Venus in its own sign in the second and the moon

exalted in Taurus in the second so there's really positive placements in um both of the financial houses and I found found this quote from an announcement about her commitment to give away to

giving away lots of her money and she she wrote we each come by the gifts we have to offer by an infinite series of influences and lucky breaks we can never fully understand and then she went on to

say that one of hers was financial and that's why she was you know giving it away to other people you know that's really funny because it's I I wasn't um I don't have it in the chart maybe I

should put it in the charts but her lot of Fortunes in Taurus I know I know and so it's not only like another marker yet another marker for the second house being really important to her life but

her lot of Fortune then is literally in hard aspect to both benefics so that's what was actually really speaking to me about that quote right she has both the benefics in the two Financial houses and

they're both aligned with the lot of Fortune denoting something about your circumstance uh additionally yeah and I did a whole episode about the lot of Fortune and how

important that is especially in ter of circumstances that are like out outside of your control or the element of Fortune or chance or luck that that

plays uh in terms of where it falls in the birth chart right right right so yeah all of that is really just fascinating about her chart um and just one last note that I had about her

ascendant ruler you know saying that it's applying to Neptune which it is um within 8 degrees and I think that is part of the selfless thing but it's also

um applying oh no that's okay no never mind that's all I wanted to say about that one okay yeah so

that's a really stunning example and there's also a whole element about transparency and stuff that came up but I think that's good for her I think we

can move on okay so yeah ruler of the ascendant in the second house and then literally obviously giving away and donating so much through Charities and

philanthropy that's like you can see why a major part of this person's life then is surrounding Financial issues and obviously maybe you could already say that since there's like a second house

stellium so it's less impressive because it's like also the ru of the ascendant is there but nonetheless still interesting well it shows because she's

obviously such an extreme example uh right now of you know Financial things being a major focus of her life and so I think it is actually like a great example or illustration of both

having a major stellium in the second and her ascendant ruler being there and that's why she's such an extreme example of this yeah for

sure okay so that was a good example this let's switch to like because then once I do like a good example of somebody doing good stuff with theirs then I can switch to like a

not great example so this is one I found where it turned out we had a birth time for this guy named Dan Bilzerian and he was born with Libra Rising and Venus in

Scorpio conjunct Uranus in the second whol sign house and um this is a guy that um he became popular like a decade

ago where he was claiming that he had made millions of millions of dollars playing poker um like he was claiming that he had made I think $50 million

playing private poker games or something like that and then um he became famous on Instagram for having just like millions and ions of followers because

he would have these just ostentatious displays of his wealth um and as well as his lifestyle and it was very like Venus

conjunct Uranus and Scorpio where it was like he was non- monogamous and he'd have like dozens of women around him all the time and he claimed to be like

sleeping with like 10 different women at the same time over multiple year periods um while also living in these huge mansions and doing all of this like

crazy extravagant stuff and he's one of the instances where I felt like lifestyle really did become relevant and it reminded me a lot of the chart of the

Egyptian king who it wasn't the ruler of the ascendant in his instance but it was like Liber Rising Scorpio placements in the second house and just you could tell there was this similar orientation

towards like material things as like a major focus of the life M right yeah definitely a senate ruler in the second as a major focus and then also funny that Jupiter in a night chart

is uh on the ascendant because that's sometimes the sort of Shadow side of Jupiter then which is just like you know greed or just like taking things too

far yeah with Jupiter on the ascendant and also like Saturn's there in a night chart well what's interesting about that is like there's a

further um so it's like so gambling um is a major thing with the fourth house so he you mean the

fifth sorry the um second house at least for him like the focus on poker basically was his main thing and he continues to play poker but what's interesting as a complication about his

example is a lot of people speculate because he just shows up with like $50 million out of nowhere and he claims that he made it playing poker privately against like really rich

people but a lot of people have looked at his games and asked like whether he's good enough to have actually won that much and when people have looked into his backgrounds like some of the speculation if you go to his Wikipedia

page is his father actually it turns out was um like a corporate um what do they call it like Raider in the 1980s who would go in and do like hostile

takeovers of companies and make just like millions and millions of dollars through that MH um but then he got in

trouble basically and the FBI raided his home and he was arrested and went to prison for more than a year um and then also received some really harsh

Financial penalties where the Government tried to get a bunch of the money back that he had made because he had made something like at least 60 million dollars

supposedly but then the government was never able to recoup all of the money and then all of a sudden a few decades later his son comes out of

nowhere with like millions of dollars that he says that he he he got from playing poker and so it's been this like open question that people have wondered

if a lot of his initial wealth at least came from his father and I thought that's really fascinating in this instance because if you look at Venus we have the ruler of the ascendant is Venus in the second house in the night charts

the most positive planet in the charts the second House of financial success but it's in Scorpio and it's ruled by Mars which is over in Capricorn

conjunct the IC in the fourth house of the family the parents and the father and then and then there's reception between Venus and Mars so right they're

sextile each other closely while Venus is in so it's like there's this really interesting connection between finances and the father in the chart itself and it's interesting that at the very least

that people speculate about whether some of his initial wealth came from his father yeah for sure yeah it's funny when you can see those things show up astrologically like well there's some

potential Credence here right yeah um at the very least you can see why the rumor would start there um but you know who knows so that was

interesting and also just the focus on the material realm and it's in Scorpio so it's possible that some of the things with like sex and other things come up there but there's also there's like some

other elements there between him and the Egyptian king in terms of um like ex ensconcing one in the material realm or going to the fullest extent in terms of

material Pleasures that I think is is relevant somehow um and I'm not fully there in terms of articulating that but I think if one was to try to these would be two examples up there to to give you

like a pointer towards you know what that's about right and it's interesting that both of them have a planet that's not happy Scorpio in the second house like maybe that's a part of that commonality yeah well and one of the

things that was actually interesting about him is I've saw some interviews with him when I was trying to research this and understand the placement where he said that he'd gone to the utmost

extreme and height of like of essentially like like physical pleasures and stuff but then he he ultimately found that it wasn't fulfilling and that um it didn't actually like fulfill him

in the way that he thought he would even if he had fun or enjoyed it or what have you but that it wasn't something that he could maintain or wasn't as worth it in

terms of staying there yeah so I don't know where he's at with that now but I just thought it was really interesting because the the key word for him seemed to be

Hedonism um you know which centered on like glorifying pleasure seeking and Indulgence and the pursuit of of

gratification essentially totally y yeah all right so that is that example there's more there but we

will skip it so we can move on for now can I talk about Jim Baker yeah that would be a good one great uh this was when I found Jim Baker was a tele

evangelist a g and Tammy Fay Baker back in the What 80s 90s is they're yeah um most famous back then so Jim Baker had

Pisces Rising Jupiter ruling the ascendant placed in the second house in Aries in a day chart so that alone would say there's a particular focus on um

making a living raising money and especially through self-initiating actions with the placement in Aries and Jupiter in a day chart saying that's probably going to be relatively successful for him right um and indeed

it was um they were famous televangelists and raised tons of money for a while um but you can see this Mars so Mars is ruling that Jupiter Mars is

ruling um both a second house of income and the ninth House of religion and it's placed in the first house of self and so that right those two topics become very primary to him he's got the ruler the

first and the second and second and first um but Mars is also ruling the ninth tying in the topic of religion and that Mars in a day chart um is the more problematic Mars right and it's applying

very closely to conjoin that Jupiter so there's both like positive abundance indicated as well as like some major problem at some point and so his story was basically that they

did raise lots of money for a while and lived well um on it and then he was um convicted of financial fraud uh at some point and so there's the Mars coming in

and so it's another one of those examples where excuse me you see you know both of those planets coming to play uh at some point in life even though it's like extremes of positive

and extremes of negative and kind of like that Mars again of like acquisitiveness right I mean Mars and Jupiter can do that in ways but if it were just the Jupiter in a day chart I might expect this to play out

differently in terms of just more of the positive um but it was like the Mars problems coming into play as well and if I can find that in our outline there was

some timing thing um here we go so um he was indicted October 4th 1988 on mail and wire fraud conspiracy to defraud the

public and um Mars was retrograde and it was about about to conjoin his ascendant ruler Jupiter in the second house during a first house Perfection year in which

that Jupiter would have been the lord of the year and so things happening with to or from Jupiter would have been more important that year and that retrograde Mars uh by transit was about to conjoin

that when he was indicted it's really perfect yeah yeah those retrogrades are super super important I'll I'll give another example of that in a minute but

especially you know if it's a Nega one it can be a negative event like taking them taking money away or having a financial challenge right um and only

one other side note I wanted to mention just because it was funny uh and I like astrology that amuses me um so he was originally a Prosperity theology uh preacher which you can imagine right

with Jupiter ruling the ascendant placed in the second house it's like you know if you're you're faithful and believe you know a Prosper Financial Prosper Prosperity will come to you um but then

at some point later like after these things happened he turned into like um sort of an Armageddon like apocalyptic uh Theology and became sort of like a

prepper and was like selling prepper type things and that's really funny to me because the Jupiter is obviously like the prosperity theology piece but then Mars is ruling the ninth house in a day chart and so at some point that kicked

in and you we it was like the fire and brimstone uh religious orientation uh took over which is just right literal yeah that's very literal yeah I mean that's the thing we found with a

lot of these is a lot of them are just like surprisingly literal yeah yeah all right I like that one that's good that's a good

one um all right where are we let me switch back is that a maybe I should do a positive I need a positive one first but set to set up some of the other ones

um oh yeah no you just mentioned a second house a grade in the second house and a bad one I have a positive one that'll actually be a positive um counter example which I used last

summer and I was really impressed by which is um Margo Robbie when Barbie came out um you know

Barbie came out as this huge sensation Last Summer the summer of 20 uh 23 and Barbie was released right as Venus was stationing retrograde in Leo

and then it just went on to do this huge run where it made like $1.5 billion or something like that worldwide becoming I think the most successful movie last

year and we actually have a time chart for Mar Margot Robbie and she has cancer Rising with Jupiter the Sun and mercury in cancer in the first house the first wh sign house and then her second house

is Leo and that was what was really curious is like you know she was the star of the movie and her reputation was obviously very good at that time so there's this question of like well why is it in her second house why is the

Venus retrograde there when it's obviously it turned because it turned out that the Venus retrograde in Leo didn't just coincide with the release of the movie but when I took it back like Barbie's history kept coinciding with

Venus retrogrades in Leo um going back to the first summer that it was released during a Venus retrograde in Leo but it was in her second house and then I came to understand why that was and it's

because she wasn't just the star of the movie but she was actually the one that came up with the idea to do the movie and she was the one that pitched it in

the first place to the Production Studios um she was the one that pitched it to her the Production Studios because

she had started a production company so um when she pitched it to the studios she actually said she flat out

said during her pitch meetings that she believed a Barbie movie could bring in $1 billion at the worldwide box office which turned out to be true and it ended

up being the biggest debut ever for a film directed by a woman but what's interesting about this is um you know it was in her second house so the reason why that's important is because since

she was the production company that produced the movie it meant a lot of that income then came back to her so this is also not just her starring in it

and her reputation going up um but it was also a huge financial windfall for her because of how financially successful it was and that's why the Venus retrograde in Leo was sort of

activating her second house at that time yeah that's a great example of that yeah so that's a posit you know that's a positive to sort of counterbalance thing a positive example of that Jupiter was

also transiting her mid Heaven at the time so that was the other positive like reputation piece but um yeah Venus retrograde in Leo in the second house

and the second transits positive ones sometimes indicating huge windfalls or indicating um things being hugely financially successful that you've you've worked on or set out to do right

for sure yeah all right so let me get back to my ruler of the ascendant ones let's switch back

to um other guys so this one was funny to me so this is the birth chart of Dana White who's like one of the the people basically that created the UFC the

Ultimate Fighting Championship or he's the one that led it to um what it is today where like um mixed martial arts

and all of that is so popular um he basically part of his story is Scorpio rising and Mars ruling the ascendant and it's placed in Sagittarius

in the second second house um it has some interesting configurations to a bunch of different planets in his chart but the main thing is just Mars in the second house and he's made millions and

millions of dollars off of being like the president of this fighting company literally yeah that's really funny again literal astrology is fun um and you know

it's it's funny too sometimes obviously he has mitigations too um to that Mars um because this is a day chart so you would expect it to be you know sometimes like problematic and maybe it has been

at certain points or something in his life but um you know he has that nice Jupiter sex tile overcoming Mars and such um but it's also funny in that you know sometime I don't think this always

works but sometimes in a kind of remediation sense like when someone does something very appropriate to the nature of that placement I think it kind of takes that energy a bit instead of it

being like solely problematic for his finances it's like no he's he's you know profiting you know through the topic of fighting which is like more of a day

chart Mars right exactly well and it's like he's famously gotten in like like fights with different people um you know the ruler

of the second is Jupiter which is in the 12th which is kind of interesting because he's had a lot of very public fights with sometimes like fighters who are you know connected with him

sometimes due to issues over pay or them complaining about not being paid enough enough um like adequate wages or different things like that so it's

interesting how that comes into play um and yeah but there's actually a lot of things we could go into but he's worth $500 million supposedly in 2019 so it's

probably more now although he he denies being a billionaire but um his life has been significantly directed towards making money through fighting and through being a fight a fighting

promoter by and promoting and managing the business side of Combat Sports right y makes sense pretty literal pretty

straightforward pretty literal okay I want to do just two more examples of the ruler of the ascendant and then we'll move on to the rulers of the houses all right first example Arnold Palmer who

was a famous golfer um starting I think in like the 1950s in the middle of the 20th century and he had Virgo Rising with Mercury Libra in the second whol

Sign House conjunct Mars um it's probably a a night chart because the the sun is just a little bit

below um the the Horizon usually if it's like six degrees like that's sometimes can be like a day chart like in the case of George Lucas but this guy's On the Border I actually don't have a strong

opinion about whether it's day or night um it doesn't necessarily matter but um he was a famous golfer and and he was

the first golfer to reach $1 million in career earnings so um I thought that was amazing so Wikipedia says he's an american professional golfer is widely regarded as one of the greatest and most

charismatic players in the sports history um his influence on golf is immeasurable he transformed the sport into a mainstream spectacle attracting millions

of fans with his thrilling play and magnetic Magnetic Personality um but what's interesting achieving the Milestone of

$1 million in career earnings in 1968 was a significant event in golf history for several reasons one um the financial impact on the sport because it highlighted the growing Financial

potential of professional golf before Palmer the sport was not known for generating substantial wealth for players but his success demonstrated that golfers could achieve significant

financial rewards through prize money and through endorsements inite iring many others to pursue a professional golf career in that sport so it's like this guy is the reason why people later

like Tiger Woods could have these huge endorsements with like you know Nike and different companies like that is because this guy was kind of like a

Trailblazer so um he attracted a very large fan base through his popularity which helped to boost the television ratings and the attendance at golf tournaments and he sort of became the

symbol for a New Era because by reaching the $1 million Mark he solidified his status as one of the game's all-time greats and marked a beginning of a new professional era for golf and inspired

future Generations so um I just thought that was a really striking example I'm not like a huge golf guy but um it's fascinating seeing these different areas

and seeing somebody you know where hitting that Financial goal or that having that as a turning point in his sport that set New Era for people and seeing his ruler of

the ascendant there was so striking and then of course he was also very smart with marketing and there was that drink that was named after him the Arnold Palmer which is like a mix of like half

tea and half lemonade and he actually ended up licensing his name out to the Arizona Tea Company in like 2001 so now that they they actually produced that drink and it's sold in stores All Over

America with his name on it so he was very Savvy as like a licenser well that's funny too as like a literal manifestation of like you yourself being like a part of a product right like with

theer ruler in the second my God I just thought of something I didn't think of until you said that it's in it's in Libra and the drink is literally half iced tea and half lemonade it's half and half that's a

good point that that's the alternative name for it is half and half and Libra is the scales and is commonly joked about that sometimes heavy Libra

placements have a hard time time deciding between two things half and half that's amazing oh my God and he's known and and that's the

thing he's known for I mean most people today if you're not a golfer the reason you've heard his name is because of the drink so this is the this is the chart for the the guy and he's named after a drink or the drink's named after him and

he has the ruer of the ascendant in the second house the place of material things and apparently in his instance uh drinks right yeah yeah

I don't know if Neptune in the first house is relevant as well but anyways oh yeah I'm sureid good times good times liquids liquids all right we're finding

stuff see we just find stuff like as you sometimes you that's experience I had that was reignited with this is sometimes you pull up a celebrity chart if you don't know anything about them you look at the chart you see the

placements but you're like how does that work out like I don't know how how that combination works out then you start reading their biography and it starts coming alive and you start realizing how their their placements have worked out

in very literal ways and then it just becomes this amazing thing um I kept calling you every day and or we kept talking excitedly every time I'd find a

new chart about just how um it's like a it's like a dopamine Rush an astrologer gets when they find a new chart and right they see how well it matches the life if anyone wants to come up with a

new catchphrase for that um yeah feel free to bring storm here yeah we were trying to come up with a name for that like a hashtag like astrologer good was old hashtag for something else but then

there was another we were trying to come up with a name for right which is like when you you revisit an old chart that you've used before and you ReDiscover something new about it that you didn't understand previously I had a few charts

in this collection that were like that totally yeah so we need we need some uh good new hashtags for these phenomena yeah let us know in the comments Below on you

YouTube all right Arnold Palmer only other one I have I just I guess I'll end with this one um and I'll just mention others as without showing

charts and passing their names but one last one I want to mention is um the astrologer Noel till so he was supposed to be born with

cancer rising and the Moon is the ruler the ascendant in the second house in Leo MH and um the degree of the ICC is at seven

degrees of Virgo so in like placidus in quadrant houses his Moon's in the third house but in Hol sign houses it's in the second house and um I found this old

interview with him where he was describing in like the 1970s or something when he first discovered astrology he was sitting on his couch or something he was watching TV one day and

an astrologer came on and they were trying to explain it and it was some point after they were done he turned to his wife and he exclaimed he said I'm going to write a bunch I'm going to

write a book of he's like he said something like these people aren't explaining this very well but I'm going to write a book about it that explains it better and I'm going to make a million

dollars and I always thought it was so funny that on the one hand with the ruler of the ascendant in the second house that part of his motivation was like making a million dollars was his stated thing which I think he probably

did end up doing because he ended up writing a ton of books selling a lot of courses and he was a very Savvy business person for an astrologer especially at

that time period in the 1990s and 2000s but then um you know of course from his perspective the ruler of the ascendant was in the third house according to

quadrant houses and he did write a bunch of books so I've not worked this out but it's just something I'm interested in exploring in and I know different astrologers are also intered exploring

in terms of what the possible reconciliation is between holin houses and quadrant houses and if you can use different house systems at the same time and they either have overlapping

meanings or show you different things and um I don't have that worked out yet and I haven't seen anybody that fully has it worked out completely I'm primarily obviously we're using whol

sign houses for this and I think that is the foundation of the houses and it's the most important like Baseline to start from but occasionally you do see

little hints like that that um where there could be points of reconciliation you know potentially and that could be the way

forward for sure right well and part of also I mean as an aside also how he made his living was like he had a he had a gigantic presence I mean he was not just

literally physically very tall like a very tall man um he had a booming voice he was theatrical he used to be an opera singer before he was an astrologer I if I'm remembering that right I think and

you know it's it's just very like the ascendant ruler in Leo was like part of he did write a bunch of books but also like how he made his living was being

very like not like a performer but like very um very out out there in front of people you know yeah right yeah for

sure um yeah and also teaching astrologers how to like do astrology yeah I don't know there's something there but anyway that I think

will be the the other like ruler of the ascendant in the second was like um Chris

Jenner uh David Beckham who was like a soccer example to go with Arnold Palmer golf example DOA cat and yeah that's it

for ruler of the ascendant in the second house okay good collection thank you all right let's take a little break okay if you're a fan of the podcast and you'd like to support the production of future

episodes then consider becoming a patron through my page on patreon.com in exchange you'll get access to a bunch of benefits such as Early Access to new episodes the ability to attend live

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name listed in the credits at the end of each episode for more information visit patreon.com asrology podcast all right we're back from break let's start the final section of this where we're going to talk about the

ruler of the second house in different houses and the rulers of other houses in the second house we're going to go through this section more quickly because both of us are running out of energy and steam and we'll see if we can

get through all 12 houses sequentially I may jump around a little bit let's see how it goes okay so one Proviso these are not comprehensive these are just some of the meanings associated with

those houses in order to get a sense of different ways that it can manifest um but it's not going to be comprehensive because there's going to be different positive or negative manifestations of each house that obviously due to the

time we're going to have to leave out yes for sure all right cool so let's start with the first one who is the writer famous writer English author Jane

Austin um who wrote Pride and Prejudice and a number of other famous works um this one's interesting I almost use this

for just a placement in the house um she has Virgo Rising Moon and Saturn in Libra in the second house in the KN chart and then the ruler of the second

house is Venus in the third house of communication and she did make some writing from her she did make some money from her writings um but still struggled

financially most of her life and had to live with her her family basically with Saturn and the moon there in the second house right right and then the uh the

second house ruler being Venus which is the benefic of sect and the third house um of writing and books and so forth yeah exactly of her income so

we'll see that a lot especially writing uh coming up in communication with the third house with different examples um but so she was considered one of the greatest English novelists um

but it's interesting in terms of the themes with Saturn and Libra in the second by night um according to wied Peter her plots often explore the dependence of women on marriage for the

pursuit of favorable social standing and economic security um elsewhere it says her heroins navigate a world where their choices are limited and their Futures

often hinge on securing a suitable match while her stories may involve romance they also offer a sharp critique of the patriarchal system that restricted women's opportunities and forced them to

rely on marriage for their livelihood um is is that amazing for like Saturn moon in the second house ruled by Venus absolutely right and you know that is

that was surely part of many you know maybe most women's experiences at the time but this just because she was an author you know became part of like the the livelihood that she made like those

themes went into the books um things about social status in particular and marriage um and it's also interesting that she has both the moon in the second and the ruler is Venus and those are two

planets that are you know widely associated with women in general uh by signification and you know her protag protagonists are largely women and that's not actually a given for all

female authors right um and so that just like as a basic thing uh as part of her you know means of livelihood also kind of intrigued me as well as um Venus

being in Scorpio a sign that is you know opposite its rulership and um one of the things about some of her character

are like women trying to um you know move beyond the constraints of like traditional female expectations for the time and and even if it wasn't like

wouldn't be like ConEd as radical now it was more so you know some of those things those attributes then and I feel like that's a perfect like Venus and Scorpio kind of thing of like opposite

the rulership of Venus and it being something about um you know doing something different than the status quo uh in terms of expectations uh that were

gendered at the time yeah for sure um she also has a close Mars Pluto conjunction that's like squaring that Saturn and you can feel some of the

tensions um but she she lived um in the 1700s and early 1800s like the early 19th century she died in

1817 um but she did make money through her writing but not substantial amount by today's standards um so but it while it was a decent sum

for a woman in her lifetime it was not enough to live on independently so she relied on financial support of her family for most of her life um and a lot of her Fame and Fortune grew after her

death so it's an example I may have to come back to when I do that episode on posthumus astrology which is like how people's charts keep working after they die you know there are like Jane Austin literary societies and she is the ruler

of the in the second oh wow that's that's amazing just came across this yeah that's amazing right cool so we could

sit with that one for a while but let's move on for the sake of getting through everything so all right another one I wanted to

mention really quickly is um Linda Goodman so there's the chart can you see the chart uh now I can yeah okay so

Linda Goodman um has mercury I was going to actually originally just use this as a planet example but it was just that uh Linda

Goodman has mercury in the second house um in her chart it's actually stationary um it stationed only a day before um

stationing retrograde and Linda Goodman um she did writing and communication to like earn a a living for her life she worked in radio then

writing for newspapers than even a speech writer um but then eventually she published she got into astrology and she published a book titled Sun Signs which became a New York Times bestseller and

her second book her second astrology book which is titled love signs set an industry record with a record $2.3 million being paid for the paperback wrs

of the book um and I thought that was really amazing because as an astrologer she wrote one of in modern times one of the most highest selling astrology books

of all time um but also was paid like way way more than any astrologers usually get paid for her book oh right totally yeah yeah all right so that is

that example um moving on um another one this is just imp passing but just to drive home the previous Point um this is Dave roel he was an astrologer that passed away

almost a decade ago now but he was a book seller um he wrote a he had a a very famous sort of like publishing house um which I've often you know he had Gemini rising and the ruler of the ascendant is

mercury in Aquarius conjunct the mid heaven so you get these ninth house and 10th house themes of being an astrologer and a publisher um but also um with cancer on the second house and the ruler

is the moon which is in Leo in the third wh sign house and he made money from books basically from selling books yep

pretty literal selling people's writings um okay so moving on one last one is Ronan pharaoh who has Aquarius Rising uh

Pisces on the second house and the ruler is Jupiter in the third house in Aries and he's a journalist and he's known for some of his his writings basically especially his investigative journalist

pieces yeah I love that because it's kind of like the Intrepid writing uh and the investigation with Mercury ruling that in Scorpio in the 10th conjunct Pluto like that's the type of type of

writing he made his living has made his living from right which I mean some of his investigative pieces like kind of blew up in things during the me too movement and and just some abuses that

were occurring in in Hollywood right exactly yeah and like he's one like it being an Aries it's like he's he's just kind of going off doing this on his own

you know right yeah exactly very independent thing definitely all right moving on to the fourth house um maio Gucci

probably mispronouncing but I've used him commonly as a as a example because I love the mutual reception he has cancer Rising night chart with Venus conjunct Pluto in the second wh sign house and

then the ruler of the second house is the sun which is in Libra in the fourth house of parents and then um the fourth house is Libra so it's ruled by Venus which is in the second house of finances

he was the grandson of the Gucci F fashion Empire and in the 1980s when his father died inherited essentially most of the company which was worth just

millions and millions and millions of dollars so um I always thought that was a really great example just showing the tight connection between the second house and the fourth house and

inheriting a bunch of money from a fashion Empire from your your family which is very like Libra and Leo coded totally yeah usually when the second house is tied up with either the fourth

or the eth and there's like inherited money um yeah exactly and not to make any explicit comments but to come back to another chart again that we talked about earlier

here's right Dan BL bazarian chart where we had that question where we had Scorpio on the second house and the ruler is Mars which is in the fourth house and just a question it's like did

he inherit any money from his father or did it I'm sure he did did well well no we don't know because we don't want to get we don't want to get sued and so you

are joking when you say that I think um okay so um but just that that's been discussed as a possibility you know we could also say maybe his father's attitude towards

corporate I don't know focus on money and stuff could have influenced him or something like that sometimes it's like what do we inherit from our parents in terms of their attitudes towards money that could be and it could be that

that's what we're seeing here who's to say Yeah well yeah and to be fair like sometimes it's literally like you're going into the type of field and making

a living from like what your parents did sure yeah uh which was certainly like with the Gucci example was definitely

what happened there um other examples um this is a good one that I love which is I only learned out about in the past few years this is Princess moo of

Japan and she has this nice Venus Jupiter conjunction in Virgo in the second house and she was literally like a princess in the royal family line of

Japan and so therefore very well off financially um but she has Saturn in the in the seventh house in a night chart in Aquarius and she fell in love with and

then wanted to marry a commoner who was not royalty um but in order to do it she had to essentially give up her family titles and give up the large like

monthly stipend that she would get financially um that was coming from her like royal family line basically and I thought it was interesting she has um Virgo on the second house with Venus

and Jupiter there but then Mercury is the ruler and it's placed in Scorpio in the fourth house conjunct Mars and Pluto and sort of widely squaring that Saturn so it's like you get that that tension

there right that tension and then potentially that like loss at some point with Pluto yeah so um as a member of the royal family she

received annual allowance from the government but upon marrying a commoner she was entitled to a onetime lump suum payment of 1.3 million um she also used to have access

to Palace resources and support staff but after the marriage she chose to decline the lumsum payment um and she lost her royal status and all of the

associated benefits um so now she and her husband rely on their own incomes and she works as an unpaid volunteer at the Metropolitan Art Museum in New York while her husband works at a law firm um

so I thought that was a cute story and there was like some Saturn return stuff with that as well um where I think she may have officially renounced her titles finally when Saturn wasn't in Aquarius a

few years ago during the Saturn return um makes sense yeah yeah makes sense that's funny too with that Saturn uh in a night chart overcoming the like

exalted moon in Taurus in the 10th and like that literal tension of like her exalted role in society being at odds with like marrying who she wanted to yeah yeah

exactly okay um the last one I thought was kind of funny um that I just found that we had a time chart for is Joe Rogan who has one of the biggest

podcasts in the world that he developed over the past decade um for better or worse but what was interesting about him is he has Taurus Rising with Gemini on the second house and the ruler is

mercury which is in Leo in the fourth house I thought that was fascinating basically because he found a way essentially to make tons and tons of money working at

home where they set up the podcast studio in his house and he literally like has guests out to his home essentially and then they record a conversation and it's released to the

world but the most broad sense like if you were just trying to interpret the placement archetypally the two options you know if you see the ruler of the second and the

fourth is you would either say well there may be something about your finances that's connected with your family or your parents another delineation that's basic that you could give is that there may be something

connected between your finances in your home or living situation and if you if you said that to him at some point early in his life it would turn out to be stunningly true later on right well in

this case in particular it's like you're making a living from like talking at home with Mercury ruling the second like conjunct the IC in the fourth yeah

totally and it's like you know Pisces is is the 11th House of friends and Jupiter is the ruler of the 11th House of friends and it's there in the fourth house conjunct to Mercury so it's maybe something about how he has friends out

to his house to have those conversations as well so there's more complex things going on there and other things but as a basic delineation I just wanted to mention that because it's impressive right and sometimes when you see

connections between the second and fourth or 10th and fourth it really is just that simple is like the person works from home or lives where they works or where they work or things like that um

yeah yeah exactly all right let's move on to the fifth house um incredible one for the fifth house Walt Disney Virgo

Rising Libra in the second house Libra is the second whol sign house and it's ruled by Venus which is placed in the fifth House of children and he literally

created uh an animation you know an art company Disney which makes movies for children um and then and then you know

became wildly wildly wealthy as a result of that right so the animation um film aspect of entertainment and then

children more broadly as the company expanded yeah and you know with Disney theme parks and broader things but I think it's just interesting that

ultimately he ended up making his fortune you know largely from children essentially more or less yeah um

interesting with the moon in the second house he liked to collect things so um his interest were varied he collected

one yeah um so he collected miniature trains which was perhaps his most well-known yeah so he connected miniature trains arts and antiques books

and memorabilia so I thought that was amazing as a continuing theme um a great comparison is George Lucas so George

Lucas was born with Taurus Rising um Uranus and Saturn in the second house in I believe this is a day chart like I very strongly think he was born with a day chart and this was one of my first

examples that showed me that when the Sun starts getting within six degrees of the ascendant like it starts acting like a day chart because it's bright out by the time the person is born so I think

he has a day chart um Gemini on the second house and um Mercury the ruler rules the fifth house

at the same time so it's like there's a connection between money and the fifth house topic of children he has mercury

in the first house in Taurus um and Mercury is stationing direct a day after he was born so it's pretty much stationary there conjunct Venus right on

the ascendant and um the brilliant thing about George Lucas is that he when he sold Star Wars to when he made the deal

for Star Wars before he made it he somehow got them to give him the merchandising rights to the entire thing so because that hadn't really been done

before and they didn't think it was going to be a huge deal so but what ended up happening is he released this movie that was like hugely popular

especially with kids and then he started making tons and tons of toys from it and like sold tons of action figures and other things like that to children and

made um just an obscene amount of money as a result of the merchandising rights for Star Wars that's great yeah yeah I like that so that's smart business savvy

and that's one of the ways if there's a connection between the second and the fifth that things can work out um another one I found another way that can work out so this is the birth chart of

Heidi fle um who was a famous Hollywood Madame in the 1990s that like came up in the news when she was uh arrested or

busted for creating a prostitution ring essentially in Hollywood in the 1990s so she was born with Aquarius Rising Venus Mars conjunction right on

the ascendant in the first house the ruler of the ascendant is Saturn which is in uh Pisces in the second house showing a focus on Financial matters and

then the ruler of the second house of finances is Jupiter which is placed in the fifth house and one of the sign significations of the fifth house is sex and sexuality right yeah that's pretty

perfect also the ruler of the 12th is in the second uh in terms of you know connecting the topics of you know um prisons and uh your livelihood right because she was

arrested and went to jail for a period of time MH yeah and then and then also there was a lot of um Scandal during her trials about whether she would release like

supposedly like a black book of names of people that she had been connected with which she never ended up releasing but I thought it was interesting because um Jupiter's in Gemini in the fifth house

and it's in a mutual reception with Mercury in the 11th House of friends and groups and alliances so there's a strong connection between like the um 11th House of friends the second house of

finances the fth House of Sex and the E House of other people's money between those two planets right yeah there's a mutable cross there going on yeah so that was

cool um okay I think that's it for fifth house examples all right I'm gonna space this in in post but there was an example chart that I forgot to include because we were going to do a separate section

on transits but we ended up not doing that and instead integrating most of the transit examples throughout the episode but there was one that that I forgot to

reintegrate and it's the birth chart of the Rapper Dr Dre so here's his chart so he has he was born with Gemini

rising and cancer on the second house and the ruler of the second house is the moon which is in Libra in the fifth wh sign house and it's in pretty pretty

good shape it's applying to a Trine with Venus and the midheaven in Aquarius with reception since the Moon is in sign and I've used him as an example for

a number of years because that's such a auspicious and positive second housee placement and what happened is um about

10 years ago in 2014 he um he had started he' founded a headphones company called Beats

electronics and these headphones became wildly popular back then so that lots of people were wearing them especially lots of younger people and they were pretty expensive headphones they were like

designer headphones at the time and um yeah it it was interesting because like headphones are like entertainment and they're used for entertainment especially those headphones and I think

that's part of the manifestation of the ruler of the second house of finances in the fifth House of Entertainment and fun and pleasure and everything else so what

happen is he founded this um headphone company but then in 2014 the headphone company was acquired uh by Apple so the

biggest company in the world bought out this headphone company and it was Apple's second biggest acquisition ever where um Dr Dre and his business partner

sold Beats to Apple for $3 billion so this is just like a crazy amount of money and it was going to make Dr Dre a billionaire and it was going to

make him the first rapper who was a billionaire so what was interesting is um this deal starts happening let me put the transits

up um because I I had used this as an example before but I went back and reviewed it and was looking at the transits and the transits were

incredible because um in early 2014 when they're working out this deal and it first starts coming together um transiting Jupiter was in cancer so

literally Jupiter was transiting his second house when this deal comes together where suddenly he's about to become a billionaire basically and

become just wildly wealthy Beyond his wildest dreams so Jupiter's transiting his second house but at the same time um

Mars is retrograde in Libra and on this date on Mars 8 um so the deals coming together and he goes out and he parties

and he starts partying with his friends and he um you know uh reportedly says like I'm going to become the first billionaire rapper

ever and what happens is that one of his friends takes a video and then posts it on Facebook and like leaks the video not realizing that it needed to stay private

or something I guess but the video went viral and went everywhere and it really upset Apple

um and the the head of Apple at the time called him in to the office to chew him out basically about this and there was a real concern

whether um the deal was going to be cancelled altogether because the secrecy of the deal the Apple Executives had made a really important point that it

had to be kept secret until was finalized and they and Dr Dre had essentially just leaked it accidentally so look at mark Mars is retrograde at 9

de of Libra and it's coming up on a conjunction with his moon at seven degrees of Libra on the day that this is leaked basically and then all of a

sudden the press and everybody starts reporting on it so Mars though it's actually slowing down in order to station direct I'm going to advance the

chart and just like basically like a week and a half later or we or two weeks later Mars stations at 9 degrees of Libra on

top of Dr day's Moon the ruler of his second house and what ended up happening is that the head of Apple Tim Cook called him into his office and chewed

him out and he said he wasn't going to cancel the deal but he was going to um drop the offer by

$200,000 so that instead of becoming a billionaire at that time Dr Dre would become worth like $800 million or something like that um putting it just

under a billion so I thought this was an amazing example because on the one hand we have the Jupiter Transit and having this

like wildly successful Financial deal where your company is getting bought for billions of dollars and suddenly you have this the largest financial windfall of your life with Jupiter transiting the

second house but then it's a day chart and Mars was transiting the ruler of the second house at the same time and not just transiting it but actually stationing on it and so something

negative happened at the same time which is that the deal was thrown in Jeopardy it was almost cancelled and then he ended up making um significantly less

than he was going to make was subtracted from the offer um before it went through So eventually they worked things out and the deal still went through and they

final ized I think in August of that year but I thought this was a fascinating example because on the one hand it shows a trans you see like the the natal signature and the potential

for wealth because the ruler of the second is well placed in the fifth it has reception with its ruler with with Venus it's applying to a Trine with Venus and then you see the positive

Jupiter transit in the second and the negative Mars Transit on the ruler of the second at the same time so sometimes people

struggle with that when there's positive and negative um indications at the same time and usually what it means is that you get both that something positive

happens but something negative happens at the same time sometimes they happen in parallel um just like simultaneously but other times one will happen and then

the other will happen um so you'll have like one step forward one step back or something like that but this is one way that that can manifest in his chart so I

just wanted to share that not just as a ruler of the second and the fifth example but also as a transiting example as well um just because the transits are really important in terms of timing the

activation of some of these placements at the same time all right so that's it I only I only have

one um sixth house example and it's Leona Helmsley who you could do a whole write up in it of itself um she has

cancer Rising had cancer rising and Jupiter in the second house in Leo in a in a day chart and she became very

wealthy um interestingly with the with Aries on the 10th house and the ruler Mars in the fourth house she became wealthy from running hotels um she created a bunch of hotels

and did a bunch of um land deals and building deals and different things like that but she's primarily known as a hotel person um she amassed though this

huge wealth and she also got some of it from marrying a very famous uh Hotel developer um but then they worked together but when she died she ended up

leaving behind all this money but one of the things that she did is she left behind like millions of millions of dollars to her dog um and I always thought that was such a funny example

and I Ed that as an example of the ruler of the sixth house which represents pets in the second house of finances and and she left her dog millions of dollars

literally the wealthiest dog in the world literally the probably I mean yeah so um what was funny though is I think

Saturn afterwards started transiting Leo and transiting her second house and the dog with like the new people that were supposed to take care of it put it on a

diet because she had fed it like wildly crazy food like caviar and stuff like that and the news headline said that it had been put on a diet of like dog food

and like Alpo and stuff like that so the dog was literally having like a Saturn Transit through over over that Jupiter that's hilarious yeah yeah um there's other stuff with her chart that's

interesting but I will leave it at that for the sixth house the sixth house is underrepresented but we'll come we'll come back to it in future episodes all right seventh house one of

my favorite examples that I found of the seventh house is Laura waser who has Libra Rising Scorpio on the second house um so that Mars is ruling the second

house of finances and the seventh House of relationships and it's placed in the ninth house which can sometimes represent um the law and the courts and

things related to that and Laura waser is a famous um lawyer who specializes in Celebrity divorces yeah yeah yeah that's really

perfect uh just uh you know Mars being severing and her livelihood being like using the courts to sever things um Mars also

ruling the seventh House of partnership yeah Mars you know its most ancient symbol for Mars is a knife and that's one of its core meaning is is

suffering or separating something so she literally she makes her Fortune second house by helping people to get divorced 7th house and to sever separate their

marriage Mars in a legal context with the courts 9th house right right and her ascendant ruler is even like in the Eighth House of like shared resources um like bringing in

that topic as like a strong focus of her life yeah totally and even the 10th House of career and reputation is cancer and it's ruled by the moon which is in Aries in the seventh House of

relationships and marriage something I noticed when I was looking at this chart was just like heard Jupiter is just like helping out everything in her chart so you wouldn't always for instance think

Mars in a day chart ruling II is like wildly successful lawyer like even if the ruler of the second is in the ninth because it's Mars in a day chart but it's just like Mars has reception with

Saturn Mars is applying to Jupiter Mercury's applying to Jupiter the moon's applying to Jupiter like Venus as her ascendant ruler uh in the eighth you know which isn't like one of the good houses is also applying a closely to

Jupiter so Jupiter's like helping everything as a side yeah especially with that moon like at 26 degrees of Aries R in the 10th house and it's applying to that exact Trine with

Jupiter at 27 Leo is just a perfect condition of bonification yeah so she just to give you an idea she's handled the high-profile High net worth um

disillusions which is another interesting term including those for Angelina Jolie Heidi Clum Kim Kardashian Chris Jenner Johnny Depp Ryan Reynolds

Christina Aguilera Hillary duck Stevie W Wonder Maria Shriver Dr Dre and Kevin Cosner um and the last interesting point

it says yeah actually I'll skip that but um very interesting chart very cool jart y

um all right so moving on you already mentioned Charles Ponzi who had the ruler of the second and the seventh and he special he did The Ripped

people off yes um I've mentioned Johnny Carson oh I'm still showing the charts I mentioned Johnny Carson who had the ruler of the seventh and the second and he had a very famous and costly

Celebrity Divorce one of the most costly divorces in history at the time um there's a similar thing with Arnold Schwarzenegger who

had um Capricorn on the seventh house the ruler is Saturn in the second house and he was very successful financially but then he had a famous celebrity divorce

and um and it was one of the like a very costly Celebrity Divorce with Saturn in the second house um one that I came across that was

interesting that I just came across the birth data of and and researched was um The Comedian Bobby Lee who evidently we have a time chart

for he has Sagittarius Rising Capricorn on the second house of finances and the ruler is the Moon or I'm sorry the ruler is Saturn which is located in Gemini in

the seventh Hol sign house and Bobby was like a a famous comedian that was famous in the 90s because he was on the hit television show Mad

TV and he was also in some movies and like some music videos but his career was kind of in decline by the

um by the early 2010s and what happened is that he got together into this relationship um with

a woman his girlfriend named Kila and um they ended up starting a podcast together called uh tiger belly and this

podcast became very successful and it basically revived his somewhat declining career as a comedian and as an actor um when they started it in 2015 but the

only reason he did it was um with her and getting together and um there were tensions later because they eventually broke up just in the past few years but they've stayed friends and

they've continued working together and hosting the podcast together so that it's still like um something they do together but it's something that wouldn't have happened without that

connection through his his partner at the time right yeah for sure nice to see a non- divorce example of the connections between the second and seventh yeah it's not always

negative things it can it can also be really really positive things right um there's a lot of interesting transits connected with his chart and their relationships like she has Jupiter and

Mars and Capricorn in the second house in his second house so it's like that's the other thing is sometimes people's sinistry plays a role as well right for

sure all right that was interesting um another one like that that I it's not like that but another connection is um Monica Lewinsky have you seen this did

you can you see this chart yes m i can okay so this is Libra Rising she has um Scorpio is the second house and the ruler of the second house is Mars which

is placed in the seventh House of relationships in a day chart and she um famously had an affair with Bill Clinton and then one of the things I thought was

interesting just in seeing this just as I was searching for examples was just how this impacted then her finances cuz

on the one hand um she would later do um some interviews and some books and stuff so that she ended up making some money

from it as a result of the affair later on um but she also had like huge amounts of um debt from legal cases and stuff so she ended up having to use a lot of that

money in order to pay some different things off as a result of that um and when she later tried to get different jobs and stuff she she ran into

challenges and was unable to as a result of the stigma of that sort of following her um so I thought it was interesting just in a case of both negative and positive things but just that there was

a connection between that and her finances right that like initially her place of you know making a livelihood

made her like meet a romantic partner in a sense but then um later it was like the scandal of that Affair than like hindered her future um

finances yeah exactly um more recently she became later she became an advocate against cyber bullying and against like an anti-bullying activist in general and that's also I think partially tied in

with that as well as having been on the receiving end of that with Mars in the seventh House of like other people yeah totally yeah all right and then one last

one is a historical version of this which is William Lily who the 17th century astrologer who had um Pisces Rising Aries on the second house and the

ruler is Mars and Virgo in the seventh house and he famously um got together with um a woman

who was like well off and he like courted her and then they got married and then she passed away at some point she was like an older woman and she

passed away and then he inherited her um estate essentially it became him made him a wealthy person yeah interesting with one of the benefics in the eth and then um of

inheritance uh and then yeah this being a night chart with Mars ruling the second and the seventh is like very different you can see than the day chart of Monica linsky's same placement

exactly and just Mars being more challenging by day or more constructive by night yeah yep all right that's the last seventh house example

um eth house Eighth House is kind of tricky have we talked about some e house ones so far we have yeah because like inheritance Investments other people's

money um there's all th those connections right with the second if the second house is connected with the eth house it's often one of those topics

mortality and Danny DeVito's case right I mean that's one of my examples I skip some of my examples are kind of morbid so I'm going to skip that one I think we've probably done some

other 8 house examples already right yeah I mean a bunch of them basically a lot of the wealthy people like either inherited it or was it from Investments other people's money in other words so yeah there's been a lot of eighth house

already I did the very first example I did was The Inheritance one from Lisa Marie Presley who had the ruler of the second and the eth and the r of the eth and the second right yeah okay I think

that's good then okay um I'm still showing William Lily's chart you are while we're talking yes let me

just let me just show Lis Mar Presley's chart again then for the sake of the video viewers so you can remind yourself of what that looked like where she had

Leo Rising Jupiter in the second house in Virgo the ruler is mercury in Pisces and the ruler of the eighth house is Jupiter which is in Virgo mhm so very strong connection between

place of inheritance place of money and she inherited Elvis's entire State at the age of 25 at the beginning of a second house Perfection year

um okay ninth house we talked about Madonna's chart a little bit probably actually way extensively enough but I just wanted to reiterate that I think it's

interesting she has that Mars in the ninth house and there's sometimes those issues of perception of like blasphemy in

religious matters or um sometimes integrating like sexual uh like imagery with religious matters which is also like a Mars thing um but it's like that

Venus is ruled that you know Venus is ruling the ninth house and the second house and um so it's like that's part of what's also generated money for her to

some extent was her some of the ways in which she did that and some of the rebelliousness she has because that Mars is actually pretty closely Square Uranus at 12 degrees of Leo and that's the that's the primary it's not the only way

but it's the primary way that the Uranus placement comes through in the chart yeah that makes sense yeah and then also that I think part of the delineation for her was also with the

ruler of the second house of finances and the ninth House of religion and the 12th House of enemies is that she ended up benefiting to some extent from some of her enemies and people that were

protesting against her that tried to shut down that partnership with Pepsi But ultimately arguably you could say that it potentially may have worked out in her favor I think because Venus is

sextile the mid Heaven therefore it's mitigated in the 12th yeah and it's so interesting when people have like positive 12th house things and that's one of the ways that can work out is like you somehow benefit from your

enemy's actions uh which you wouldn't think would be like a thing that happened very often and certainly it doesn't Mo much of the time but in those cases where there's like benefics

connected with a 12 that can sometimes happen you can sometimes see that happen or to phrase it differently like you benefit from those who try to work

against you or from those who you don't get along with yeah exactly is one possible delineation there's other delineations I know isolation is like a

theme of the 12 that you really like yes yeah people who earn their living in seclusion or yeah yeah all right um one other that I like for the ninth

house what no go ahead I was just gonna saying but the ninth house which we're still on um deepo Chopra has Pisces Rising Aries on the second house and the

ruler is Mars in the ninth house in a day chart along with Jupiter and mercury and he's famous for writing a lot of books um essentially that he's made

money talking about spirituality and trying to tie that together with like science and religion yeah interesting I like that he has the ascendant ruler uh

Jupiter and Mars co-present in the ninth house it's like tying together like his life orientation and the way he makes a living in the house of religion

exactly all right um moving on 10th house ones I was super stoked to find this one we have the birth chart we have the birth time of the founder of

Forbes Magazine um who was born in like 1880 but his name is Beast Forbes and he had

he had Leo Rising Uranus or sorry Virgo on the second wh sign house and the ruler is mercury which is in Taurus in the 10th house conjunct Venus with a

whole Taurus stellium of Mercury Venus Neptune son and Pluto and he ended up founding a magazine you know studying wealth and studying the wealthy

basically wow that's perfect I mean especially with the ruler of the second you know not just just prominently placed this is saying he's like a prominent person right um with

regard to finances but or the topic of finances but uh Mercury can like applying to can jooin closely the ruler of the third and it's like the magazine exactly and then just that

tourist stellium in general in terms of like wealth materiality yeah so and it's like many of the people who's we've talked about in terms of their net worth and knowing

that it's like we know that because of like Forbes Magazine today tracking some of the the wealthiest people in the world yeah that's really good I like this yeah well uh tracking the wealth of

the eminent exactly yeah with that 10th house stellium yeah all right so that was one um J Paul Getty is like a really

common example that I use it's one of my core chart examples in my book in my course um and he had Capricorn rising

with Aquarius ruling the second house and the ruler is Saturn which is exalted in Libra in the 10th whol Sign House in a day chart um opposite Jupiter and he

was like this huge uh Tycoon and he was the wealthiest man in the world at one point but he was like um obsessed with work and focused on work constantly and

he was also a little bit like miserly where he refused to pay like a ransom for like a family member that was kidnapped at one point wow that's

terrible yeah So Good Times um there's two other examples that tie together of mercury like um BC Forbes that I thought were

interesting and complimentary examples um one of them is Ruben Hurricane Carter had Leo Rising Virgo on the second house and the ruler is mercury in

Taurus in the 10th house so it's similar to the Forbes chart except in this case Mercury's retrograde and what happened is that he was arrested um somebody was

murdered and then he was falsely arrested and convicted for the murder and imprisoned for it for a number of years um but then eventually his story

became known and he became known for it and different people lobbied to get him released and even wrote songs about him like um Bob Dylan in the 1960s or 70s

wrote a famous song about him to bring awareness to his case and eventually he was released and after he got out um he was able to make some

income uh by talking about his story and doing different deals related to that and then eventually becoming an advocate for other people um who were falsely

imprisoned um so the main point I wanted to make with this is one of the core interpretations of retrograde planets in ancient astrology is that they indicate delays in the manifestation of whatever

they signify in the chart so in his case because it's really in the second house it's it's delays in financial income or wealth um so that it came about very

late in his life essentially that he became successful financially because he was falsely imprisoned which is the other part of the Mercury retrograde yeah that makes sense he's

also got the ruler of the 12th like applying to that mercury closely yeah and there's some other stuff I used as chart as an example in the epode on the lot of Fortune because

he has the lot of Fortune in Gemini and so Mercury the ruler is actually in the 12th house from Fortune which is the place of jail in Fortune houses or prison um and he was arrested with a

friend who was also falsely accused okay so there's all sorts of things there so his chart and

then I found that um George Carlin was actually born very close to him the comedian he was also born with Leo Rising um but on the other side of the retrograde where Mercury is still

retrograde but it's not long after the kazmi so he has Virgo on the second house and Mercury is ruling that it's retrograde in the 10th house um retrograding back to conjoin Uranus and

he was a comedian but he wasn't very successful when he was younger it was mainly once he got older that he eventually found success as a comedian and then made quite a bit of money in

his later years but in his early years is um it wasn't as good interesting yeah that's a good example of that uh I also like that it's like right on the mid Heaven uh and then like with Uranus

while Mercury's retrograding back to Uranus because he's like I don't remember a lot of his stuff but I I know that he was like known for trying to be like edgy like as a Persona yeah he had

like a joke about that what was it the 10 like curse words that you can't can't say yeah right yeah all right so I think that's it for the 10th house um

moving on to the 11th house you have an amazing example with Anthony bourin yeah so this is one of those where sometimes

it's like one pivotal event in someone's life makes like the most sense of a placement and so he has Leo he had Leo Rising Mercury is ruling the second

house of Virgo placed in its own sign of Gemini in the 11th house co-present with Venus also in Gemini um and Venus is ruling the third house of like books and

um you know he was a he was a chef he was a cook for like many years into like his 40s and that's it's only then when he started to become really famous like from his books and then the books

spawned into you know TV shows and things like that and so anyway I was like why is the ruler of the second house of income in the 11th House of friends or groups um and I thought partly it was like that he worked with

teams right like even when you're a cook like in a restaurant you're working as a team and like he worked with teams on his shows but I was like is there a friend Connection here and I finally found that um it was his college

roommate that actually got him his kind of randomly got him his first book deal which was like a novel it wasn't even like of the books he got famous for um his college roommate was like talking to

some mutual friend who was like a you know worked for a publishing place and was like I have friends he was kind of boasting he was like I have friends who write better than the people you're publishing and the agent was kind of like challenging him like okay well then

find me one and he he didn't like call his bluff and so he he told Anthony who who did write um he's like I I need a manuscript and

so they he like paid him to like write a hundred pages of like a a book to give to this the guy and the guy said okay I'll I'll buy it for $10,000 and they went in 5050 on this and so he gave his

friend like Anthony gave his friend 5,000 of it um and that is how he started doing his books that was like his first published book wow that's amazing so it's like his the most

General thing we could say about this chart with the ruler of the second second house of finances in the 11th House of friends is that somehow your finances at some point will be connected with your friendships and that would be

stunningly true in this instance yeah but it was like you know he did lots of other collaborative stuff later too you could say you know as a general thing that was true but like the really

pivotal thing about the connection between those two houses was like this kind of one-time unique event yeah for sure um and there was probably like activations at the time by progressions

and transits and stuff as well yeah I'm sure yeah all right um I have a lot of similar examples like that with 11th house ones

um Steve wnc is like my classic example that I always use of that because he was um the friend of Steve Jobs and then the two of them

founded Apple Computers in like their garage and Steve wnac had Virgo Rising has Virgo rising and Libra on the second house rule ruled by Venus which is in

the 11th House of friends extremely well-placed and he became um incredibly wealthy as a result of this connection or this friendship that he had with

Steve Jobs um when they founded Apple Computer and then Steve Jobs was so brilliant in terms of marketing and other things whereas wasn was like the technical genius who literally like

programmed and created some of the early mac Apple Computers um and then it created what is today I think like the biggest company in the world or maybe one of the most profitable companies or

something like that yeah right so again just like you know without that like friend Connection that just whole thing would not have unfolded for him

exactly so another way that I see the 11th house come up when I was doing this research is in um social media and the

most stunning example of that is uh Jack dorsy who is the founder of Twitter who was born with Virgo Rising the 11th house is cancer and the ruler is the

moon which is placed in Libra in the second house conjunct Pluto widely so it's like again the connection here is between like friends and finances but in

a modern 21st century context sometimes what friends means is like social networking and for him he literally created one of the leading social networking sites in the early 20th

century which is 21st century which is um Twitter which is now x uh yeah yeah that's great yeah I see social networks come up a lot with the 11th as

well yeah um and trying to find it where is it he's worth an estimated

$4.1 billion dollars today be rolling the second in a night chart it's a benefic of sect yeah so um just to give you some context about you

know Extreme Connections between wealth and in this instance social networking yep good one um another one like that that I found is Kim

Kardashian and this is one that I had used before um but I came back to it and it was the more I looked into her life because I I didn't know like a ton about

it before but the more I did the more the chart made sense the more amazing it was but the primary thing here is that she has um Sagittarius Rising Capricorn

ruling the second house of finances as well as the third house of siblings and it's placed in the 11th house where Saturn is in Libra it's exalted it's got

an out of sign conjunction with Jupiter um it's a very well-placed Saturn and um I'd always used as an example because she initially came to prominence and uh

through her friend Paris Hilton where she had this friend connection with Paris Hilton who was like a famous socialite that was in um reality

television in the mid 2000s and then through that connection um Kim Kardashian made a few appearances on Paras San's like reality television show

and then later would end up going on to to start her own reality television show that involved her family as well as several of her siblings as like the

focus of the show um so but but you know one the point is that it she originally sort of started making a lot of money

through her connection with Paris Hilton um but then two um she credits social media with a large part of her

success yeah yeah that makes sense so um because she's in that um tie over period between like the

late 2000s and the early 2010s and one of the things that she did is she really um was one of the first people that really used social media um to its

utmost extent in order to promote her her product basically not just her products but her show her siblings and everything else um and she's actually

worth an estimated $11.7 billion today according to Forbes um she had one of the longest running reality television

shows in the country in history and um what else about that I'm trying to see what else that she I have a quote from her where she

talked about being wealthy as a as a result of social media that she has developed a significant presence online across numerous social media platforms including hundreds of millions of

followers on Twitter and Instagram and that it played a crucial role in her success so that she says quote unquote I totally attribute my career to social

media there are pitfalls she added such as lack of privacy and that's not for everyone but for me I can handle it yeah so I thought I thought that was

really good um interestingly her mother Chris Jenner is the one who evidently came up with the idea of doing

a like a reality show based on the family and who originally pitched it and she's actually has Virgo Rising with Mercury in Libra conjunct

Neptune and Mars in Libra in the second house so I know there's been things there about like questions about how much she's like the matriarch of the family and how much she's the arch

behind the like hugely successful careers that each of her children have had um through the social media and different things and it's interesting just seeing her focus on the second

house with the the birth chart placement totally and then Jupiter ruling um the other chart uh ruling the fourth house placed on the mid

Heaven yeah with Kim Kardashian's chart totally um that she has Pisces 4th house and the mid heaven and Jupiter ruling in

the fourth house and it's exactly on the mid Heaven at 28° of Vergo right yeah that's perfect so interesting side note that I have to mention in terms of a Transit

um a few years ago in 2016 um Kim Kardashian was robbed at gunpoint in her Paris hotel room when

she was visiting Paris for Fashion Week um and it was this hugely like traumatic experience for her where masked men broke into her room tied her up and

stole millions of dollars worth of J Jewelry um and she has spoken openly about how the experience changed her perspective on security privacy and

material possessions so I was able to track down the date it happened October 13 2016 and Mars was transiting Capricorn

her second house at the time wow yeah that's crazy isn't that um striking it's very striking yes let

me show it really quickly there it is so um Mars was at four degrees of Capricorn transiting just just so you know I'm not seeing the let me

switch there we go let me know if you can see it yeah I can see so Mars was at four degrees of Capricorn the day that the robbery happened in her second house

of money and possession and finances and it was squaring her Saturn which is the ruler of her second house which is at three degrees of Libra yeah um so I think that's part of what it was is she

had not just a she has a day chart so Mars is the most difficult planet for her she's having not just a negative Transit through that house but also hitting the Lord or the ruler of the second house at the same time um she

also had Saturn transiting over her ascendant Saturn was at 11 degrees of um Sagittarius and her hitting her ascendant at 13 so you can see the

bodily fears and stuff as well MH um but there was also counteracting positive transits where transiting Jupiter was at five Libra sort of near that Saturn um

so it didn't end up being the worst case scenario and Jupiter at five degrees of Libra was also sexiling her Mars at Six Degrees of Sagittarius in her first

house because that's you know um that's a problematic placement for bodily things potentially Mars in the first house in a date but it was getting mitigated by that

Transit from Jupiter yeah yeah that's really good cuz yeah that sounds like a terrifying experience um so it's good that she had some some positive transits going on as well yeah totally so lots of

other interesting stuff there I'll leave it at that um weirdly I noticed I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking about the story because I running out of

time Paris Hilton her friend who Kim Kardashian originally became famous and started becoming wealthy as a result of that connection with parisan also has Sagittarius Rising so that's probably

why they got Al got along because they have almost the same ascendant degree and Paris Hilton also has Saturn ruling the second house placed in the 11th

House conjunct Jupiter in the mid heaven and she was famously you know a socialite and became famous early on especially not just as a socialite but having a reality television show called

the simple life that she did with her childhood friend Nicole Richie and that was when her sort of popularity really blew up in the 2000s yeah that's interesting you know

thinking about the nature of the 11th house and um it being like social media very much these days as well as your you know just regular friends or groups you belong to but like thinking about the nature of like some of those houses you

know the specific manifestations can change over time or culturally and just thinking about like that is probably like what that was before is like like the social like the the societ pages

right it would be like you would expect if you had birth times for people they would like have 11th house connections from like you know hundreds of years ago yeah totally yeah yeah that's a good

point all right let's move on to the 12th house the very last house um I've already talked about Madonna's 12th house placement and how that worked out which is probably one of

our most striking examples of that and how it can sometimes work work out positively if there's good connections with the 12th house mhm um making money from one's enemies or as a result of

them right um another one um Yoko Ono had has Libra

Rising Scorpio on the second house Mars ruling the second house of finances and the seventh House of relationships but it's in the 12th House of loss and she

ended up her husband John Lennon was assassinated by like a a crazy person in the 1980s and and died he was shot

unexpectedly and then she inherited his entire estate um so that's part of that placement or how I would connect that a

little bit right um go ahead go ahead oh no no you go um and then the other ones that I found were connected with jails

so one of the most ancient associations with the 12th house is prisons MH actually really quickly I had mentioned lilan bed in court as another 12th house

example so just remember her and that somebody potentially took advantage of her in her old age um for finances and gifts and a weird relationship thing

with the ruler of the sth and the second and the ruler of the second and the ruler of the 12th and

the second yeah MH anyway um the other ones the last ones had to do with prisons one of them is

um Sam bankman freed do you see the chart no not yet I see Benton Court still okay there we go

oh we had it for a minute here we go so he was born with Taurus Rising he has Gemini on the second house and the ruler

is mercury which is placed in the 12th house and um he was involved in the

largest financial fraud in history where his um cryptocurrency company essentially

folded um and he was doing negative things and then um he's been sentenced to I think 25 years in

prison and to face a huge amount of of restitution right yeah so his financial activities led him to prison is the ruler the second and the

12th yeah exactly um so he his attempts to enrich himself led to

imprisonment I think is the delineation essentially and he he committed the largest financial fraud in history due to the collapse of his cryptocurrency

exchange FTX and the associated misappropriation of customer funds um where the estimated losses are in just

10 of billions of dollars yeah so um he was sentenced to 25 years in prison three years supervised released in order to pay 11 billion in interesting keyword

forfiter for his orchestration of multiple fraudulent schemes um in the context of what he has to pay forfeiture refers to the forced

surrender of assets he acquired through through illegal activities and I think that's it like that's a really 12 housy second housy set of keywords there um

because he defrauded people through a complex scheme that primarily involved the misuse of customer funds deposited in his cryptocurrency exchange yeah and it's interesting he

has that Mars in a day chart so the out of SE malic ruling that mercury ruling the ruler of the second and ruling the seventh House of like the other party um

yeah as well as Pluto there not like Pluto by itself would you know do all of this but it's interesting that that's the same placement as um Charles

Ponzi right yeah so um all of his assets were Frozen um he's got a crazy amount of

legal fees Bill conditions as well as numerous civil lawsuits from investors and creditors so um yeah his once vast

Fortune has been decimated is one of the lines that I saw MH for sure yeah all right so other ones though I found two

others that were similar one of them was recent which was um Gypsy Rose Blanchard was a story that was in the news over

the past year she has Liber rising and um Scorpio is the second house and it's ruled by Mars which is in the 12th

house along with Venus and Mercury mhm so she ended up um um this is kind of a complicated how do you explain this one

do you know uh well she was um her mother uh I guess was faking the daughter's illness this person's illness and was like making her do lots of like

surgeries and medications that she did not need and like harming her you know in the process for years yeah like she I can't remember how you pronounce the the name of that but it's like monks monk

Housen by proxy yeah was potentially the disease that her mother had and then the owner of the birth chart the daughter is like a survivor of that where her mother

was keeping her sick and was forcing sometimes very extreme medical procedures on her that she didn't need right which which often left her in a wheelchair and even um surgeries that

she didn't need right um so she was subjected to lifelong physical mental and medical abuse so what ended up

happening is she ended up um getting a partner or a boyfriend and the boyfriend at her request potentially ended up

murdering the mother and then both the boyfriend and Gypsy Rose Blanchard went to jail um but because of the circumstances surrounding her just uh sort of like

torture like growing up from her mother she was only sentenced to like 10 years or something like that but was released after serving eight years and in the me

time whilst she was in prison um some like dramas were made or documentaries were made about her case and she developed a sort of like following on

social media so that once she got out um over the past year when she was released from prison she's become successful as a result of that as a result of the

notoriety of going to jail for having murdered her mother or had her mother murdered and so she has like a a book that's coming out later this year she has a book deal and other sort of like

deals like that so it's something I can't fully articulate but something about a connection between the second house of finances and the like 12th

House of prison and just that she's those two uh topics are intertwined here right like if she hadn't gone to prison for that like that I mean that's the

thing that led to like her at least earning some income subsequently um was like that that connection and like interesting also with the Pluto in the second cuz it's it's kind of like one of

those like True Crime things that becomes like you know in the popular imagination of society for a while there's like you know hordes of people

who are like following this uh with INF Fascination so on the one hand her ascendant ruler in the 12th you know closely conjoining Mars in a day chart was like really bad for her physically

and I'm sure emotionally right like just the circumstances of her growing up and and you know getting like medically abused um which itself was a form of like imprisonment she was being

imprisoned by her mother exactly um yeah that's what I was about to say but um then at the same time Mars is the ruler of the second and so like the circumstances of her earning and income

are like related to like hard things that are related to prison right yeah exactly so you know sometimes you just have those unique stories like that and that's one of the

ways that that can work out in obviously a very extreme scenario mhm yeah um one other that I found that was actually similar like that was um Amanda Knox who

has Gemini rising uh Taurus on the 12th house and the ruler is Venus which is in cancer in the second wh Sign House along with Mercury in the Sun and Mercury is

the ruler of the ascendant and she famously um she was like an American from Seattle who went to study abroad for a year in Italy during college but

then her roommate was murdered and she evidently was like falsely accused of the crime and then convicted and

imprisoned for a period of time but then later she was um exonerated and released and um subsequent to that has written

books and done podcasts and other interviews related to it um as well as done some advocacy work I think for people that are falsely

imprisoned um so I thought that was another interesting case where there's like a connection there between the 12th house and the second house absolutely right and of course you know that'll

play out differently for different people most people are not imprisoned who have a 12th house connection with the second so don't worry if you have something like that in your chart it's not always that but sometimes it is

literal like that yeah sometimes it can be very literal and that's you know what I said at the beginning of doing this was I was just looking

for literal examples um that fulfill some of the most basic ancient significations and so there's a whole range of

other both positive and negative or even like middleof the road significations for each of these houses that we're not getting to um but the point here is instead just to demonstrate that some of the core

significations that astrolog have always associated with those houses really do still work out sometimes in very literal ways today for sure yeah and seclusion uh as

we talked about earlier is a much more common uh 12th house connection than say prisons um but you know the commonality between the two of course is just like

being away from everyday life yeah seclusion and sometimes that's why it can represent not just you know

prisons but also hospitals or you know sometimes I think monasteries or other places like that yeah I have a friend who has a connection between the second and 12th and he's a doctor and works in

hospitals so there you go it can be really positive yeah well sometimes you know in these instances it's sometimes taking a bad experience that you've had in the

past and then turning it into something positive for you that helps you to support your life in the future I think is the broadest way you can interpret that or in the case of your friends

sometimes it's externalizing that and it's like taking something that's a bad experience for other people and then um you know finding a way that that can be something you do in order to help people

that also supports you and your your life and your livelihood yeah exactly which is also the case of some of these people to the extent that they become advocates for people that are suffering

similar situations as them in the past for sure yeah and uh I am surprised but that means we have reached the end of my

chart examples and the end of this episode I mean unless you'd like to keep going I mean we could keep talking I don't know um it's not a I want to say not not the longest episode I've ever

done definitely not the shortest but I think we covered an incredible amount of ground today yeah yeah I think this is a great overview of the second house and different connections with a second

house and how that plays out in terms of one's livelihood income possession Etc yeah for sure so there's probably other things we didn't get into other

ways of looking at the second house obviously it wasn't comprehensive in terms of all planets in the second or all the other thing is we FOC I focused on Celebrity examples in this episode

because their lives are like documented because they we have time charts for them and because sometimes they show extremes of you know good and bad

scenarios which is sometimes helpful once you've established the extremes then you can then sort of figure out what the intermediate steps are like the

moderate uh manifestations might be if you've seen what the the utmost extreme is right the extremes sometimes make for better storytelling uh for the example

purposes exactly so we we're also in this series this is only the second episode in this series so we're going to continue to see other manifestations of the different

houses as like go through each of these so this was a kind of a crazy research project for me this month I actually did it uh I took longer on it than I might have because I was actually I've been

sick in dealing with like brain fog and fatigue and long Co stuff this month but it actually interestingly allowed me to spend more time researching this than I did the first House episode which was

actually thrown together a little bit more quickly um but I spent more time on this but it also gave me um more time to really find some great examples and come

to some new realizations so I really appreciated that and I think I'll do my best to see if I can spend more time on on other houses like I did um to whatever extent I can thankfully I have

a bunch of patrons that sign up through my page on patreon.com to support this work and that's the reason I'm able to do this and to put this work out there for free instead of putting it behind a pay wall so if you got something

valuable from this then consider joining and becoming a patron and an exchange you'll get benefits like Early Access access to new episodes and other stuff like that um yeah but otherwise thanks

to the patrons that supported this work so that I could do this research and and put it out there so for you um you

are You' got stuff going on you're potentially speaking at a conference next year at the Northwest astrology conference in Seattle right yes I should be doing a lecture and workshop all goes

well between now and then um my website is Lisa shim in the future you will be able to visit it it's down right now uh in preparation for a rebuild but you should be able to see that in the

future yeah you've got some great you'll have some great lectures there for sale on things like annual Perfections and zodic releasing and election astrology several things yeah cool all right and

then you'll be announcing that soon on the norak website when that conference is out what Workshop you're going to be doing next May MH yes probably a ZR thing but uh still working out the

details cool all right well um I think that's it then thanks a lot for joining me and helping me to get this research out and these chart example thanks for talking

it through and also letting me um bug you every day for the past like two to three weeks constantly with like new examples that I would call you and then start uh babbling on about like the life

of Madonna and like the details surrounding like um all of the different intricacies of of different people's lives yeah you're quite welcome it was I was s of about daily like do you want to

hear more examples yeah how many examples can you take today yeah yeah but thanks for asking me is a fun discussion uh yeah and I I I

love seeing all of the astrology come to life it's just always so fascinating and Vivid no many no matter how many charts you look at you know just to see another one yeah for example that yeah for sure

that it really comes alive once you start looking at examples because it's one thing to learn the principles but then when you actually look at people's lives you realize the principles even if

you don't expect it like just come alive in really unique and unusual ways that fulfill the basic concept and the system of astrology that we what you know we've

had for 2 years but somehow that system still works stunningly today right even if you can't think ahead of time of like how could this possibly manifest you

know um or how how specifically could that come about and then you see oh okay that's how yeah for sure and I have um lectures where I go into more of this in my

helenistic astrology course I forgot to mention because um I tried to say I used some of the examples from my book in my course in this but I also saved some that are just in the course in the book

where I go into the ruler of the ascendant the rulers of the houses and other techniques more so if people want to learn more about some of the techniques that we used in this that would be where I would go um so you can

find that at the as ol school.com um but otherwise I think that's it for this episode so thanks a lot for joining me today Lisa yeah thanks for having me all right thanks everyone for watching or listening to

this episode of the astrology podcast and we'll see you again next time if you're a fan of the podcast and you'd like to support the production of future episodes then consider becoming a patron through my page on patreon.com in

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gold. if you'd like to learn more about my approach to astrology then you should get a copy of my book titled helenistic astrology the study of fate and Fortune which is available in both print and now

ebook forms where I've started selling a PDF copy of the book through my website at helenistic astrology.com book if you're really looking to deepen your studies of

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