The Secret to Hearing Your Spirit Guides | Lee Harris

I don't remember having telepathic communication before. So, it's very

communication before. So, it's very interesting how normal it felt. I

literally heard from above my head this very loud and clear voice say, "That's an interesting theory, but you're wrong.

And here's why.

You were not on drugs.

No, you were not drunk."

Not only my mind calmed down, but there was a different opening and feeling in my body, which I now know as chneled energy. I said, "What are you?" And they

energy. I said, "What are you?" And they said, "We are your guides." Lee Harris is a renowned psychic channeler.

Over a million people a month seek his spiritual advice on health, relationships, and finance.

Everyone is in relationship with other dimensions. We all have access to spirit

dimensions. We all have access to spirit and to our higher self or our soul.

Do the Zeiss have any information about the Epstein drama?

There is truth in it and it is being used to divert your attention away from other things.

They've talked about planetary control and that that's a current goal and aim for a very small shadow group on the planet. And that is something that's

planet. And that is something that's been playing out, they say, for a very long time, but it's rising to the surface to be publicly seen now. And the

question is, how bad does it have to get before it gets better? Do you want me to tell you something about yourself?

Uh-oh.

[Music] Hi, I'm Balik.

I'm Jonathan Cohen.

And welcome to our breakdown.

We're here to ask why am I here?

We're here to ask what are the abilities that I have been given that allow me to change the world.

Big questions today. And this is a topic that we were worried about tackling.

would you say?

Very worried, very skeptical, very concerned about what we would be sharing with this audience.

Tell us more.

Well, we're speaking to someone who uh was on a sort of spiritual journey in his 20s and uh received information from

a voice that was not his. And his first thought was am I schizophrenic? And his

second thought was, I don't think so.

What is happening? and he um is someone who is very grounded, very intelligent, very

interested in trying to understand the skills and abilities that he believes he was given. He is an intuitive. He is a

was given. He is an intuitive. He is a um he's someone who channels. He

channels information and um has a a large and devoted following of people who seek um advice about relationships

and finance and work. Um and he's a musician. His name is Lee Harris and his

musician. His name is Lee Harris and his latest book, The Future Human: New Ways of Living and Being on Earth is available. Um it's kind of an

available. Um it's kind of an unbelievable story and I don't really want to say a lot more. I think if you've ever um if you've ever

experienced something that felt like it was coming from outside of you, you'll want to hear someone describe very specifically what it feels like in his body, what it sounds like in his head,

and why he thinks he was placed here with this information. Just before we get into this episode, I want to take 30 seconds. If you aren't already

seconds. If you aren't already subscribed to the podcast, please do us a favor. Subscribe anywhere you're

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Thank you so much for being here with us on this journey.

Uh and with that, we're going to welcome in person Lee Harris. He leads a vibrant online community. He reaches 1 million

online community. He reaches 1 million people every month. Um, the portal is his online events and members community.

And um, he's also an accomplished music producer and singer songwriter. Also,

you can learn more about Lee Harris at leeh Harrisenergy.com.

leeh Harrisenergy.com.

Um, very excited to welcome Lee Harris to the breakdown in person.

Break it down.

Lee Harris, welcome to the breakdown.

I'm very happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

So, you have a question for us to get started.

Yes. It was why am I here like on earth?

Well, no, that question I'm working on myself. I was more I was more I was very

myself. I was more I was more I was very pleased to get the invite, but I was like, oh, that's curious.

I'm curious why that was curious. And

this is not because we are such distinguished intellectuals in the scientific realm that he might think, why do we want to talk?

Is that was that the reason like what what struck you?

I'll tell you. So, I think I I think I saw several episodes of your show about 2 or 3 years ago and I thought it was great and but I also I think maybe at

the time I didn't think I would be the kind of guest you would have on.

You could be right.

Right.

Meaning from years ago.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a couple Yeah. two or three years ago maybe when

Yeah. two or three years ago maybe when I first saw it. So, I was I was familiar with the podcast and then you uh are an imprint from my childhood because of beaches.

Oh. So, and and you know, I always have said this about your performance in Beaches is one of those rare child actor performances where they got it right.

Oh, that's really where the kid didn't just look like the person they had cast, but also had the energy like you believed that you and B.

Midler were the same person, which is super rare. So, I watched Beaches so

super rare. So, I watched Beaches so many times in my teenage years. So, it

was kind of trippy to go, "Oh, okay. I'm

going to have to uh Well, I'm not saying that the answer is we search out people who love to bring them on forum in this very chair quite recently, Johan

Hari, who is not from necessarily the exact place you're from, but has a British accent, right?

He also was a huge beaches fan and we talked about it and I actually just wrote a piece for Substack about beaches and about that experience and how it

came about. Um, so that's just very

came about. Um, so that's just very funny and interesting. I think that the fact that you weren't sure why you're here is I think a bit of a testament to

what we see as kind of the evolution of this podcast, which is that, you know, we started as sort of democratizing mental health. The more experts we spoke

mental health. The more experts we spoke to, the more common it was that the the notion that people should should and it would benefit them to have a connection

to something greater than themselves was a profoundly reoccurring theme topic uh and set of advice and how to do that

there. You know, all roads lead to Rome,

there. You know, all roads lead to Rome, right? There there are endless ways to

right? There there are endless ways to do that. And we've looked at the

do that. And we've looked at the scientific. We've looked at the

scientific. We've looked at the mystical. We looked at the science

mystical. We looked at the science overlapping the mystical. And what's

interesting about this world, which is a little bit more where I come from, is that I was always a very skeptical seeker. I come from a very rational,

seeker. I come from a very rational, practical, logical background. It makes

more sense when someone can explain the mechanisms when they can't. And when the more I explored spirituality, alternative medicine,

alternative healing, the more out there it can get and the more discerning one has to be because there can be things that are seemingly mindopening and

expanding that seem absolutely crazy that have validity. It can seem out there, but you can also start to explain the tradition and the mythology and and why it makes sense. And then there's

other people who are like, I'm going to wave crystals over you and I'm gonna like the list goes on about how it can be weirder and stranger. So to tie it back to you and why you're here, I think

it's important to have a conver conversations with people from all different walks of the energetic and consciousness world. We have doctors, we

consciousness world. We have doctors, we have um people who are studying this in labs and people who speak about their experience outside of labs. And then we

also have a variety of others. And I

think you may fall into the other category.

For me, I I was raised with a concept of God that I have kept. It's it was big enough to hold all of my questions and all those things. So I have, you know, a

concept of God and I I took on a lot of observance, a lot of ritual in college and I was very I lived a very traditional um religious, you know, kind of existence and um also am trained as a

scientist. I don't find any conflict

scientist. I don't find any conflict between those. So for me, I'm very

between those. So for me, I'm very interested when when I start hearing the same words in different languages.

That's when I get interested in what's that oneness and what's the you know what is something universal that we can kind of learn. So you know we've had Terresa Caputo here, right? And then

we've had theoretical physicists here.

And you know, I'm always interested in listening for this similarity to try and find like if there is something out there, right, which I believe there is, it's going to speak to people in different ways. It's going to speak to

different ways. It's going to speak to different cultures in different ways.

It's going to speak to different individuals. And what you can offer us

individuals. And what you can offer us is a very personal experience of contact that um I think a lot of people

on one hand might dismiss and we'll talk about that and you you deal with it head on you know and I I appreciate that as well.

Um and we have other people who may not be able to explain it but believe it and then we have people who don't need to explain it because they believe it.

Right. We also have people who if it's not explained in a lab don't want to know about it.

Of course. Yeah. That's the world.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's most of the world. Yeah. I'll be

honest. You know, there's many aspects to this conversation that I'm not exactly sure how to approach, right?

But I think we're just going to, you know, kind of dive right in. Um, we will also do an intro just so you know, uh, before like once you're gone, we'll read your bio and, you know, we'll do that.

So, um, we'll cover all that stuff, too.

Or where do you want to start? But I

was, oh, I know exactly where I want to start.

Okay, go ahead.

I'm excited. Okay. You have a personal connection to something greater than all of us that you didn't always have contact with.

No.

I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about who you were before a very specific, literally life shattering, life-changing

revelation came to you. I believe when you were on a subway.

Yes. Um and that happened when I was 23.

So 26 years ago now. Um so who I was I was at that age I was someone who was recovering from dealing with the impact of a childhood

where I knew that people weren't telling the truth about what they were feeling. So

you could say uh empathy, sensitivity, but of course I didn't have a cognitive awareness of that. So of course it's easy to look back now and say that. But

at the time I was dealing with my experience of the world not quite making sense. Um I was also dealing with

sense. Um I was also dealing with sexuality because I knew I was gay from a young age and I and I was told by the world that was going to be a huge problem. Um and that I wouldn't find

problem. Um and that I wouldn't find love. I wouldn't be able to experience

love. I wouldn't be able to experience what all my peers and friends and loved ones experienced. So there were those

ones experienced. So there were those two aspects moving through me. And I'd

come out of a period of bulimia after losing 60bs at the age of 16.

Wow.

So I'd had this very interesting kind of journey with identity. I knew what it was to wear a body that people treated you a certain way for. And then when I

lost all the weight, I noticed that the way everyone treated me changed. And

rather than that being a good thing and just like way I managed to achieve the goal of what I wanted which was to not be carrying all the extra weight. What

really struck me was the very same people who would have scowlled at me or scorned me now appreciate. So there was this very dysmorphic sense of whoa what is the world and how do people relate to

each other? But I hadn't worked anything

each other? But I hadn't worked anything out. I was really just trying to

out. I was really just trying to recover. So, I got very into self-growth

recover. So, I got very into self-growth and spirituality and metaphysics at the age of 16. And a friend took me to a tarot reading. And at that tarot

tarot reading. And at that tarot reading, everything made sense. And it

wasn't just the information she was giving me that was very interesting and was very uh unusually accurate about my past and what I'd experienced so far.

The past I could verify. The future you can't verify, but the past I was like, "Oh, how does she how is this appearing?"

appearing?" Or can you? Well, yes, you can. You can

actually, but um I couldn't verify it at the time because it was all new to me, but something in that room felt true.

So, I I read a lot. I studied a lot. Uh

there was a book by Shirley Mlan that was pivotal for me um called Out in a Limb. But the one area of that book, and

Limb. But the one area of that book, and it was a huge book, lots of people read it. It was she visited a channeler. And

it. It was she visited a channeler. And

that was something I wasn't interested in. And it wasn't something I thought I

in. And it wasn't something I thought I I would I loved tarot readers and intuitives, but to me channeler was just a bit beyond. And a friend took me to see one. And I remember coming out of

see one. And I remember coming out of that with this guy and saying to her as we drove home in the car, well, he's really intuitive because he knew things

about me he shouldn't have known. And

the things he was telling me about my future were really interesting, but why did he have to close his eyes and put on a funny voice? He's clearly intuitive.

Why the performance? I didn't need that.

I'm a believer. I don't need a performance because he didn't seem like someone who would fake something. But

channeling to me was weird and it was not necessary. I was into self-growth. I

not necessary. I was into self-growth. I

was into intuition. Channeling was a step beyond. And then it happened to me.

step beyond. And then it happened to me.

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Before we get into what happened to you, where would you say your sort of faith was? Meaning, did you believe in God?

was? Meaning, did you believe in God?

Did you believe in, you know, any sort of that I must have believed in God because at the age of 10, I was praying to God to take away the fact I was gay for and I did that for years, hoping that there

would be some divine intervention, of course, not realizing, oh, you can actually be a happy gay person. you're just living at a time

gay person. you're just living at a time where it's still new and um you know and and there's going to be some work to do to uncover and recover yourself.

But did you decide that God must not exist because I'm still gay or did you I mean now in retrospect obviously God loved you exactly the way that you are.

Right. Yeah. I didn't I didn't grow up in a religious household. It was very loose. Uh you know we went to church a

loose. Uh you know we went to church a few times over the years but it was more like oh it's Christmas or um so no I didn't grow up with religion. Um, but I

did believe in spirit and I had direct experiences with spirit that were quite undeniable to me. I mean, I was buying all the books. I was going to workshops.

I was checking out shamanism. I was

exploring because I was like, there is something about this world that makes our world make way more sense to me because our world feels like watching an old black and white movie that isn't

very good. And you go, you add spirit to

very good. And you go, you add spirit to our world and suddenly the color is back. Things are 3D. sensory

back. Things are 3D. sensory

abilities are celebrated in this world and and I I think what I didn't know was I was a shut down but highly sensory person.

Before we get to the the moment that Lee as we knew him became a different Lee, I'm going to ask you a hard question because we're just getting to know each other, but I think it's important

because it's something that also comes up a lot. You can be as specific or as vague as you would like. Many people who are in touch with different levels of consciousness either theirs or other

people's have experienced trauma either capital T or lowercase T depends on a definition but there seems to be what we

keep hearing is this thread of if you've had to leave your body if you've had to be in touch with something to escape

this reality does it make you more attuned to being able to step outside of your body or experience other realities.

Would you say you fell into this classification?

I think so. When you put it that way and I look at my upbringing, I was always somewhat on the outside even though I could connect and I had I had good relationships and I came from a family

that there was love. So, it wasn't family that was my issue. It was more dealing with the world at large.

Okay.

So, take us to the day Yeah. that your world Yeah. changed.

Yeah. that your world Yeah. changed.

Yeah. So, I I was working in fundraising at the time and I was on my way to the office. I was trying to break into the

office. I was trying to break into the music industry uh unsuccessfully at the time. And so, I was going through in my

time. And so, I was going through in my head all of my own negative thoughts like what I called my self-att attack or self-judge.

And they were very present. And I knew that voice so well. Like the voice didn't scare me. It was just how loud is it going to get today? and how much is that going to depress me? And um I was

in a relationship at the time and I was asking a question about him and I I was I was just kind of in my head kind of going, "Oh yeah, I'm I'm sure that's yeah, that's definitely his fault. And

why why is he?" And I very clearly from above my head, and this is still where I hear them if I speak to them directly, which is different to if I'm channeling them for other people. Um I hear them

from here. And I literally heard this

from here. And I literally heard this very loud and clear voice say, "That's an interesting theory, but you're wrong.

And here's why."

Were you on drugs?

No.

Were you drunk?

It was the morning. No. It was like It was like You never stopped me before.

No. No. No. Well, okay. Okay. No, I

wasn't.

So, you were not on drugs?

No.

You were not drunk?

No. And I was on one of the most disconnected places on earth, which is the subway. That was That's the thing.

the subway. That was That's the thing.

When I look back at it, I'm like, shouldn't this have happened in some spiritual retreat or monastery? No. It

happened in the place where everyone is shut down. Everyone is avoiding each

shut down. Everyone is avoiding each other. But that was something I was

other. But that was something I was familiar with. In a way, I was familiar

familiar with. In a way, I was familiar with a level of that being the truth of life.

So, so the voice said, "You're wrong and here's why." And it gave me this answer

here's why." And it gave me this answer that was shockingly true because as soon as I heard it, I went, "Oh." It was like a wise friend

went, "Oh." It was like a wise friend giving you the piece of information. But

two things happened. If my body and my energy field because of my self- attack before I heard the voice kind of looked a bit like you kind of like this during

the however many sentences it was where they explained why this was my issue what the issue was and why it was bothering me. Not only my mind calmed

bothering me. Not only my mind calmed down but my body just kind of opened and I felt myself it felt different. There

was a different opening and feeling in my body which I now know as chneled energy. Um, but at the time that was the

energy. Um, but at the time that was the thing. It wasn't just words. It was a it

thing. It wasn't just words. It was a it was a liberation energetically.

And so very quickly I thought to myself, uhoh, what is this? And I said, "What are you?" And they said, "We are your

are you?" And they said, "We are your guides."

guides." Were you talking out loud? You're

talking in your head.

No, no, no. Not no.

Well, I mean, if you're hearing voices, you might as well talk out loud to them.

It's a really good point because I don't remember having telepathic communication before. So, it's very interesting how

before. So, it's very interesting how normal it felt. People often say to me, "Were you scared?" And I'm like, "No."

The only time I got scared was when I realized I might have to explain this to other people. I was completely

other people. I was completely comfortable with it because it felt so loving, so comfortable. Loving in a clear way. It wasn't pandering to me cuz

clear way. It wasn't pandering to me cuz I went I asked loads of questions over those first few weeks and months and it never pandered. It would always tell me

never pandered. It would always tell me if I was wrong or and why, but not in a judgy way. But the the kind of the thing

judgy way. But the the kind of the thing that was that hit me when I asked, "Are you my guides?" I said, "Do you have a name?" And they said, "Well, we don't

name?" And they said, "Well, we don't have names, but we know humans need names, so you can call me Zachary, and I'm the lead spokesperson for the

guides." And at this time, I had never

guides." And at this time, I had never heard of a group. All I'd heard about was, you know, I'd heard of a few channelers, and they channeled an entity or a being. So, spirit guides to me was

very acceptable. It wasn't like they

very acceptable. It wasn't like they said we're aliens from the 20th dimension, which I'd have been like, oh, you know, I would have been scared of that. But because I understood they were

that. But because I understood they were my guides, I started this relationship with them that I would go home and I would write a question, then I would write what I would hear like a telefanist or a receptionist.

Okay.

Okay.

This is I mean this is it's fascinating.

It's fascinating. But I I'm going to ask like an obvious question and I want a real answer to it. Right.

So sometimes I'll think things. Yeah.

And I will hear the thoughts in my head.

Right.

That's not what you're talking about.

Okay. So, this is what this is what I'm interested in.

When we talk to people, let's say, who have had near-death experiences and they go away.

Mhm.

And then they come back.

They overwhelmingly come back with what can only be described as a download. meaning the

time that they're gone is not enough time for them to learn the things that they learned that they didn't know before.

Right?

So, Elizabeth Cone, a person who was struck by lightning, had a near-death experience. We've had her on the

experience. We've had her on the podcast. She

podcast. She received information within a few minutes that she was out that fills volumes

of pages, things about quantum time like the nature of our existence like the amount of information

is like a download. So when you are talking about this I might think well goshly you just you just didn't realize

that this problem you had it was you and you finally heard yourself speaking rationally to yourself. How can we know?

Meaning, how could you know that this information was not literally generated by yourself, but was coming from elsewhere? Meaning, you can believe it,

elsewhere? Meaning, you can believe it, which you do, but I want to know what it feels like to know that for you.

I'm going to answer you now, age 49, which is I know there is no elsewhere there.

So now I just know there is no elsewhere. There are different levels of

elsewhere. There are different levels of focus. There are we can focus in

focus. There are we can focus in different levels of dimension, different levels of reality. It's all about where our focus goes. I also do not believe that what happened to me is I mean it I I guess it seems unusual but

just a little bit. I know. I know. But

what I what I teach people is we all have access to spirit and we all have access to our higher self or our soul and a wisdom voice or a wisdom point

that might be the same one we draw from for friends in our life. But for

ourselves, we just never access it. We

don't get out of the way. I've always

said if I died and they said, "By the way, the guides was a cover story for God." I'm like, "Cool. I I really don't

God." I'm like, "Cool. I I really don't I actually don't care about the um position of where the information is coming from. But what was undeniable to

coming from. But what was undeniable to me was it changed my life. It changed my perspective. It didn't make everything

perspective. It didn't make everything perfect immediately cuz like all of us, I'm a human learning my lessons. But it

forever changed what I believed about this reality. And it started to include

this reality. And it started to include this other dimension. So,

what were you wrong about in the relationship that was not the other person's fault?

Oh, I thought it was something to do I'm trying to go back to the story now, but I think it was something to do with I just thought he was behaving badly and wrong.

And then I was shown no uh you haven't communicated clearly. You have triggered

communicated clearly. You have triggered him. something I didn't even know, like

him. something I didn't even know, like something about his past that I had triggered that when I actually spoke to him about it, he was like, "How did you

know that?" So, this was for me, if you

know that?" So, this was for me, if you if you if you're talking about evidence, there were things that they would tell me in those first few months about people that I knew or things aspects of

the world, aspects of the planet that I couldn't prove, but then when I would watch them play out with the people, I'd be like, "Oh, wow. They were absolutely right. they would be no don't talk to

right. they would be no don't talk to your sister but she is very in grief right now and in a couple of weeks you're going to find out why but it's not appropriate for you to talk to her it'll be too much for her two weeks

later she would and I'd be like oh so there was this strange reality with time that I started to find myself on a travel later that I sometimes had access

to future information but again it was very much if I asked and the one thing that did go through my head very quickly

was Uh oh, is this schizophrenia which which 26 years ago was the name we would have known for this phenomena meaning hearing voice I mean there's other features of schizophrenia but when

you talk about what would be deemed auditory hallucinations that's the first thing you would think that's schizophrenia and my reaction to that question to myself was well I got a really useful

one so I'm just going to I'm going to keep quiet because this one is not blowing up the party this one no I was like I'll just keep quiet but I you know I stayed open to that and I still I mean

still to this day I can't you know and it's funny when people go how can you prove it I'm like I'm not here to prove it. I'm I'm here living. Uh there are

it. I'm I'm here living. Uh there are people that what I have done through me have been helped by it. And I think my probably my biggest job in the work I do

is to be an ambassador for this for other people's experiences. I've had so many people come up to me privately because of my public channeling and they're they're like CEOs of huge businesses and they come up at the party

and they go, I wouldn't tell anyone else this, but I've been running my business through channeling for the last 5 years.

So, people confess and confide their experiences to me. It's actually

shocking how many executives lean into extra sensory abilities and consulting with people who have information outside of direct metrics.

True.

Now often they want to validate that with actual metrics, but there are so many people that you will start to meet in extremely high performing businesses

that are in multi-billion dollar companies and you're like, you're into what? You're open to this? And like

into what? You're open to this? And like

there's a split obviously there are some people who like won't go near that at all, but the number of people in that world who are open to it is actually quite shocking. If you think about what you

shocking. If you think about what you just described just in that relationship that you all of a sudden have a different perspective of a problem

that is divine intervention, right? Like

we I forget what episode we were talking about this, but I was writing on Substack and I sort of asked the pose the question like do do people believe in divine intervention? Oh, was about the lightning strike. M

uh not that long ago, we were recording something and my asked a question about God.

The first time I asked about God in this podcast and as she asked the question, lightning struck the the building the building that the guest was in remotely and knocked the internet down.

Perfect.

Now, was it coincidental? We I think someone did the math and and the odds of that happening at that exact moment were like astronomical.

Well, what I said, what's interesting is what's the meaning you make of it, right? God's either approving or

right? God's either approving or disapproving depending on which side of the conversation you want to be on.

And and so I asked I posed the question online, do you do people believe in divine intervention? And you know, a lot

divine intervention? And you know, a lot of what is described as awakening or described as divine intervention is seeing our problems from a different perspective, however that may be. And so

anyone who is approaching a problem, how do we pull back, have more objectivity, more insight, whether that be information about the future, whether that be getting out of our own way. Uh,

and so I think both of those definitions are true regardless of where the information came from.

I want to get back to the extreme specificity. And I don't know why this

specificity. And I don't know why this makes me laugh so much, the Zachary of it.

I get it.

Did you know anyone named Zachary?

No, I didn't.

You didn't know any Zachary. Zachary

Levi. He's an actor.

Yeah, but he he wasn't an actor. He

wasn't around.

We were younger than you. And I This is This is 1999.

Yeah.

26 years ago. 1999.

So like the biblical Zachary like Zachariah. No.

Zachariah. No.

Well, funnily enough, Zachariah. That's

interesting. That's biblical. Okay. So,

there were two others that I learned the names of during the process and it was Zachariah and Zodora.

Uhhuh.

And I thought, no, I thought I thought, no, I thought I'd heard of Pia Zadora and I knew she was like a huge American star and I was like, "Oh, Zadora is like." So, yeah, that's what I was

like." So, yeah, that's what I was given.

Does anyone want to know who Zachariah was?

Who was Zachariah?

Have you looked Zachariah with a PH, but like Zachary is one.

Oh, yeah. Right. So, Zachariah. Yes.

Okay. Yes.

I mean, it's the closest biblically. the

father of John the Baptist.

And he was one of he was a priest. He

was a high priest.

Okay?

And that means he was a ley which is why Zachary Levi was probably named Zachary because their last name was Levi and Zachariah biblically was of the tribe of

Aaron which was the Levi tribe.

Um he was told kind of an Abraham Sarah story. Zechariah was told that that he

story. Zechariah was told that that he would father a child very late in life.

The um the angel Gabriel came to him, Gabrielle.

He didn't believe the angel and was struck mute.

Wow.

And only when the child was born, John the Baptist, right, did he speak again.

Wow.

Very interesting. That's just the first thing I thought of in terms of like the cultural vernacular of why Zachary might, you know, exist in the ether.

Very cool. Um anyway, just a very interesting and the number 88 also has very interesting it does. Um, you know, um, I I don't

it does. Um, you know, um, I I don't really talk a lot about like Bible code or numerology. Um, and I know that

or numerology. Um, and I know that certain people do and I've been told what my manifesting number is and all these things, but in Hebrew, which is, you know, for me the language of

creation, right? Um, in Hebrew, every

creation, right? Um, in Hebrew, every letter is a number, which means that every word also has a numerical significance, right? So for example, my name mim means

right? So for example, my name mim means water and the number that the Hebrew letters line up for is 40.

So I think of 40 as kind of my number and there's 40 years in the desert and there's 40 days on, you know, that Moses was um on the mountain. Anyway,

everybody's name and every word has a number. So um 88 is an interesting one.

number. So um 88 is an interesting one.

8 is, you know, as Matisyahu says, it's the number of infinity because it's one more than you know how to be is how Matiahu says it. Um meaning the week is seven days, eight is one more. It's what

you can't imagine. So the double emphasis, right, for 88, it's like so beyond beyond.

Yeah.

Um anyway, those are just the things that I um that I kind of um I don't know, that's how my brain works when I think about your experience.

The piano is my favorite instrument and um 88 keys and I didn't know that till years later. So I was like that's

years later. So I was like that's interesting.

So interesting. Just before we continue, do you believe everyone has access to guides?

I do.

So, everyone on Earth has like Let me put it this way. I believe

everyone is in relationship with other dimensions whether or not they choose to make it conscious. One thing I do know, and I think this is at the root of so many of our issues, we are all supposed

to be here differently. We're all supposed to make

differently. We're all supposed to make up a jigsaw together. We're all supposed to have slightly different slants, slightly different talents, slightly different abilities, slightly different

flaws. That's kind of how we're

flaws. That's kind of how we're composed. So, I don't think it's for

composed. So, I don't think it's for everybody to have a spiritual path. But

I always say I would rather be trapped in an elevator with someone who is kind and openhearted than someone who is spiritually learned and hasn't developed kindness and an open heart. Because to

me, the kind and openhearted person is living with spirit. There are many people I've met who are spiritually learned who are all about the data um

and sometimes can behave very abusively under the guise of spirituality. So for

me it's not so much about what you believe, it's about how you behave. And

I think that spirituality has I know for me and many others helped many of us become more aligned with who we're truly here to be and shed some of the the human stuff that we're carrying.

A lot of the people that you're talking about who are not acting overly kind, they have a great grasp of the language.

Yes. Or they have a hunger for power and they see that as being a source of getting it. And I think there are many

getting it. And I think there are many I've met many over the years. I've been

in very close quarters with one of them.

And so they're all a little different.

Um but either way, it's sad for everybody. It's sad for the guru and

everybody. It's sad for the guru and it's sad for the followers if it's not being if it's not coming from a place of benevolence or love or goodwill.

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And when you describe the physical difference when you got out of your own way or you had that change in perspective where you said you felt calmer, more relaxed, you had previously

been stewing about the relationship, about what was going wrong, had uh some resentment potentially towards the person you were with. All of a sudden,

that level of somatic calming as a result of that shift is also a hallmark sign of a higher vibrational consciousness, for lack of a better word.

For me, it was a double whammy. So,

someone could have told me something that my mind could have understood and that is moderately helpful. I'm a

sensory person. So, for me, it's more about experience. It's not that I don't

about experience. It's not that I don't like data or facts or certain things. I

do in certain areas of life. But

actually that was that was the tell. I

think if I hadn't been in such self- judgment at the time, the blinding light of it wouldn't have been so contrasted that that you know I didn't like you said the day that my

life changed. I didn't know my life

life changed. I didn't know my life changed that day. I didn't know I would end up doing this for work 5 years later. Um but my life did change that

later. Um but my life did change that day or it reconnected. It kind of plugged back in.

I think it's pretty specific if you've never heard voices and then all of a sudden you do.

I guess so. I guess so. But you have to remember I was I was seven years into right a reconnection to ah the world is not just what all these humans are telling

us. There is and actually there were

us. There is and actually there were lots of humans who were talking about spirit whether it was cultures who hadn't lost that connection or whether it was individuals I met along the way

healers the people leading workshops I went to there was a if you like a faith or a connection to spirit that I also

experienced as true and beneficial well and I think also again I'm looking for the similarities here when when people talk about like precognitive

dreams, let's say, or when people uh come back from near-death experiences or some kind of trauma with extrensory abilities, right? Things that we cannot

abilities, right? Things that we cannot explain right?

In in many cases, what they describe is is that it's indescribable in the language of this world.

So true. So when you talk about, you know, receiving this kind of like and I, you know, I don't know what example will resonate with with people most, but

let's say you think you're in love and you have all these relationships and then one day you meet a person for whom

that connection is different and you realize that all the other times when you thought you were in love, that was a different set of emotions that are valuable and interesting. But this is

not that. If you've ever meditated and

not that. If you've ever meditated and you're like, "Oh, it's quiet and the thoughts they're like washing over me like pebbles in a river, right?" But

then you drop into a place that's like, "Where am I? When is it? And did I eat mushrooms by accident?" Then you know that's a different place than this. So

what's interesting to me is there may be other times in your life or any of our lives where we're like, "Oh, I'm hearing these voices in my head and I'm like talking to myself and I'm having a convo with myself." But what you're describing

with myself." But what you're describing has a different physiological component in that you're experiencing something physical and different. And when we had Terresa Caputo on uh Suzanne Geeseman,

there's like a look in their eyes when people are channeling that's like, "Oh, that's not this world. There's something

else." I don't know what it is. And I

can't speak for you, but that's what's interesting to me is that what you're describing is it's something altered.

Yes.

Right.

Yes. It doesn't feel it doesn't feel what we know to be here in the same way.

But the more it becomes part of your life, you start going ah there are there are a few worlds on earth and most of the time most of us are living in the one that we're in this body, we're in this identity, we're having the life

we're supposed to have. But many people when they open their spiritual connection, it suddenly changes everything. Now, there's a difference

everything. Now, there's a difference between when you get information for yourself and when you get information for other people.

Yes.

I want to tackle that. But right before we do, define channeling.

Yes.

And I want to know also more specifically like we just got to Zachary.

Yeah. We're Let's unpack the co I got a lot to say just about that, but I want to hear about the others and then how we get to the other entities. I

mean, is there an HR department for all the people that are role?

It's funny you should mention it.

Well, Zachary Levi will play him in the movie. So, you know, it's voice only,

movie. So, you know, it's voice only, but uh that that's a nice job, right?

What is channeling?

So, a couple of things. I say that you're channeling when you are in your when you're just flowing with something you're really good at. So, some people who cook and they don't follow a recipe

book and they get out of their head and they feel really alive. To me there there there's a level of connection and flow. So on a broad level we can be

flow. So on a broad level we can be channeling musicians channel all the time. You know songs come from the

time. You know songs come from the ethers and all all of that kind of realm is a whole other realm flow.

There was an interview I saw recently with Bob Dylan at the height of or actually it was near the end of his career and I forget the who the interview was a career. What are you saying?

It was actually don't know where Bob Dylan is these days. I'm sorry, Bob. I I

these days. I'm sorry, Bob. I I

apologize.

He's his own prophet.

But they were talking to him about the early days of his career, and he was like, "I don't know where those songs came from.

They just appeared to me. They just

arrived." And he was actually acknowledging that like at this stage of his career that he was at during that interview, he couldn't do that anymore. And that

was okay for him. But there was clearly some opening that he had and access to something there that like was unlike anything else that he had experienced.

True. And my own guides said to me years later that they got to me first through songwriting which happened to me at 21 two years earlier. And when that happened, it was magic. I loved music my

whole life and all of a sudden I'm hearing melodies tied to lyrics and every and I would literally hear it and I knew enough chords on the guitar at that point to kind of get the song down

and still to this day when I create music the music is often it just comes through or the lyrics some songs are just there fully formed within 10 minutes and you're like how I think this

is a really interesting like overlap that has some tension to it in the definition because some musicians I create the songs and my brain is

working out and there isn't a magical openc to it.

Rick Rubin has a little bit of a different philosophy where he describes artists as having antenna and that they're sensing and sort of translating whatever type of consciousness is

around. Um, so like there's there's like

around. Um, so like there's there's like this overlap. And what's interesting is

this overlap. And what's interesting is that a lot of people who describe having access to spiritual experience or

extrensory experience uh spirit guides ability to visually imagine describe a level of access in their childhood to creativity that sort of seems to form

the fundamental building blocks of their ability to later participate in what is considered extrensory.

Ah that's interesting. So creativity was my safe space. That was that was where I was prolific and that was where I I yeah I could create I I still to this day if

people ask what you know people always want your identity and people want to know what you do for work and then they assume that means that's who you are and I for me I'm a creator like I'm a creator and a builder. I've been that

since I was little. It just so happens that right now my path is to create and build in the realm of spirituality, self-growth, transformation and music.

going back to the overlap both positive and you know concerning for those people who are trying to discredit this idea and people might say he's just creative he's making it up.

Sure.

That's that's the rub, right? Is like on one hand people who are in that flow state can have awareness and and words that come to them that they've never thought about before and things come

together in a way that seems magical or extra ability or divinely inter intervened. And on the same regard,

intervened. And on the same regard, people can say, well, we're just kind of making it up and being super creative, and these super creative people have the ability to see from multiple different

perspectives, and therefore, it's all within them. I personally like the

within them. I personally like the story, and I have a similar experience.

And at a certain point, it became like, how much am I making up? Like, where's

the objective reality in this? Like, is

it a really interesting story? Is it

true? And you can kind of gauge by the felt sense of the people that you're sharing the information with. But there

is a level of creative imagination in order to make sense of realms that can't be quote unquote seen with our normal eyes.

Yeah. And I I I think this is a really important point.

One of the shadow sides of channeling that I quite quickly saw because I was taken into the channeling world which I didn't even know existed. I was from self-growth. That was my passion. My

self-growth. That was my passion. My

passion was go to a workshop to kind of uncover your crap so that you can come out happier and a bit lighter and do what you're here to do. That was that was my jam and I thought that was

fantastic. Um, I quite quickly got taken

fantastic. Um, I quite quickly got taken into the channeling world through a partner I had who was also an author and a channeler which was a a very big and

important relationship for me. and he

was a speaker for a group and we were I was invited to be a speaker there and then I was invited to be a speaker at other places and what I witnessed in the channeling world that was was a shadow

then and may still be for some people now it may hopefully be less now was a lot of worship energy and this idea that oh if the chneled entity said it then it must be superior

to everyone else and I was always the opposite. I was like, "No, no, no. The

opposite. I was like, "No, no, no. The

channelneled entity is like any good friend giving you advice." And you might take on their advice and because of their advice, you might not use their advice, but because it gives you a

chance to look at it. I was I was so against the idea that you're here as some puppet that you're supposed to follow spirit's instructions. I don't

ascribe to that. I don't. That to me is actually an unspiritual philosophy because to me, our spirituality is our humanity and what we're doing here. you

I talked to you about beaches. Uh you

put an imprint out into the world energetically with your performance and everyone involved in that movie. You

know, that movie I think was so huge because it was an emotional release valve. We didn't see many women

valve. We didn't see many women friendship stories. It was grief which

friendship stories. It was grief which was taboo still at the time. And I think the reason it hit a nerve was it was a beautifully done film, but it it it had

a lot of powerful feminine energy that we were missing. And back then, movies were key. I'm not saying they can't

were key. I'm not saying they can't still be now, but I was recently saying to a 25-year-old friend who was like, I'm not really into movies. I'm more

into spirituality. And I said, movies and music were my gateway before I found spirituality. And I still can enjoy

spirituality. And I still can enjoy them. But I said I I explained to her, I

them. But I said I I explained to her, I said, they served a purpose 30 years ago that is now being served by other things as well. So they still have their place.

as well. So they still have their place.

But 30 years ago, there were very few places that we as humans were allowed to go and feel and witness ourselves and especially because therapy was taboo.

But you could go and watch a movie and go, "Oh, wow. I identify with that character." And so, you know, for me,

character." And so, you know, for me, the movies were like church in a way because of the experience I would have.

But to your point, I think the thing about channeling that people forget is there is a level of making it up.

meaning I am not donked on the head involuntarily and pushed onto a stage to channel for people. I'm agreeing to the whole experience. I'm collaborating and

whole experience. I'm collaborating and and they have even said this and I agree with them to the best of my ability as a human who has a capacity for words which

they've said they use my capacity for language and they use my capacity for empathy. Um it's still limited. It's

empathy. Um it's still limited. It's

still a very humanized version of what it would be there. They've talked about music in their realm and they've said you wouldn't like it. It would sound discordant. It would sound a tonal. It

discordant. It would sound a tonal. It

would sound athymic. You need melody because it it lines up with the heart frequency which is is your gateway on earth. Your heart is your gateway on

earth. Your heart is your gateway on earth. Which is why I think we as

earth. Which is why I think we as humans, no matter how oppressed or suppressed we have been or are, everyone loves this. And we've been taught to

loves this. And we've been taught to kind of transpose it onto romantic relationships or the love you have for a child. We're kind of allowed to do

child. We're kind of allowed to do those. But actually, I think hopefully

those. But actually, I think hopefully as a society, we through all the conversations that we're having now are recognizing, no, friendship love is huge. Beaches again, friendship love,

huge. Beaches again, friendship love, tribal love. The Z's have said we would

tribal love. The Z's have said we would be less interested in romantic relationship if we lived more triby and communally. They aren't saying we

communally. They aren't saying we wouldn't still have them, but part of this I've got to find my soulmate is usually stemming from there are some areas of disconnection in your life that you're missing. And doesn't mean a

you're missing. And doesn't mean a beautiful soulmate can't come along and make it all so much richer. And to have a companion and someone you can mirror with, but let's be honest, even when you're in a great relationship, you're a

really happy person when you have a lot of cylinders firing in your life with a lot of different people.

We we still haven't defined channeling.

The definition of channeling in the way I do it would be you are giving voice to or allowing an entity, an energy or a

guide through you to give information and to speak.

Entity to write.

Yeah, that's energy or guide.

Energy.

Some people think of entity as a negative terminology.

I know. So, how do you know what you're connecting to? If there's this vast

connecting to? If there's this vast array of entities, angels, some people think demons, some people think dark energies.

How do you know what is coming through or what you're inviting through?

I can't give a stock answer to that because that's not the thing I've studied and become an expert in. Um, but

what I can tell you from my own experience is I didn't do any readings for anyone. I basically did free

for anyone. I basically did free readings for people for a few years before a friend of mine said, "You should be doing this." Um, but I tested

I tested myself, my life, the people I knew. By the time I was channeling, I

knew. By the time I was channeling, I felt very comfortable. I'm like, "No, no, no. These guys are definitely

no, no. These guys are definitely benevolent." What I say to people now

benevolent." What I say to people now when they start channeling is, "Is the information helpful? Is it loving? Is it

information helpful? Is it loving? Is it

supportive?" I'm not saying they're going to stroke your ego and I'm not saying they're going to tell you you're right about everything. Um, but there are people who will sometimes go, "I think I picked up on something not

good." And the answer there is, "Okay,

good." And the answer there is, "Okay, you need to disconnect from that." You

can you can say affirmations. I ask for the highest love and light to come through. But what I also witnessed, cuz

through. But what I also witnessed, cuz I work with some of these clients, boundary issues in their life with toxic human relationships were often a factor.

So they were going to spirit to try and find a good relationship. But because on the earth plane they were playing out with their energy field abusive patterns. Lo and behold whether they

patterns. Lo and behold whether they were accessing something or not or whether it was their own mind and that was as high as they could go. Um you

know somewhat bossy or demanding guides could happen. And friend in the field

could happen. And friend in the field recently was sent to me by another friend in the field.

You mean the literal field, the energetic field?

No. uh she's in the self-growth uh field and she's she's you know she's quite out there. She's quite wellnown tangible

there. She's quite wellnown tangible person.

Yes. And she's a lovely person and I was told that she was having channeling experiences by this friend and she needed someone to talk to about it cuz that's not her usual work.

And um we talked and I tuned in on what was going on with her and obviously you always do it to the best of your ability but there's this group and I said to her there's this really pushy one in the

middle and I don't like it. And I said, "And it's not necessary." And she knew exactly what I was talking about. She

knew exactly who I was talking about.

She went, "Yeah, I feel a bit." But she was also, you know, understandably, "Should I be channeling?" And I was like, "My rule is no. If there is a

pushy thing trying to use you or get through you, no, absolutely not. It can

calm down." And and in the in the session, you know, we actually had some conversation where it's like, "No, you need to calm down. This is not this is not your chance to come through a body.

This is a a collaborative relationship.

Oh, so many questions coming up now.

Questions.

So, I want I want to I want to get more specific. So, now we have like this nice

specific. So, now we have like this nice landscape.

Okay.

So, you hear this voice.

Sure.

And was it a different voice that identified these other two? Z.

That happened.

They all had Z names, which is why you call them the Z. That happened when I was being

Z. That happened when I was being interviewed.

What do you mean, Lee?

So, my partner who I was with at the time would often speak to me while I was channeling and he would ask all kinds of questions and that's how you met the other entities.

And so, the information that comes to you is that there are some entities that are they're a large group. I've been told they are 88 beings but that they can

also extend wider into source meaning source energy. So they said you often

source energy. So they said you often think of yourselves as fixed. We are not fixed as humans. You know we around this table are a composite of every experience we've had every person that's influenced us but we think of ourselves

as these singular identities with singular names. And they said we can

singular names. And they said we can also access other beings other dimensions to bring the information through. So they're not it's very

through. So they're not it's very tempting to try and think of it as a fixed group or a fixed um things aren't very fixed when you get off Earth. And

that's the kind of rabbit hole I've learned from like the more questions you ask the more mirrors open and the more you can just keep going. Which is why I think at a certain point you have to decide is my goal here to just keep

opening more mirrors or have I opened enough mirrors that I now want to actualize what I've experienced and bring it to earth and see if it's useful to me and to other people.

Yes. Those are further down the road questions. I'm still stuck on you're on

questions. I'm still stuck on you're on the tube.

Yes.

And you're hearing this.

Yes. So what is it you want to know specifically about that moment? I want

to know what did you do after like oh I went home from work and I wrote I I I because I wanted to record it you can't remember it when you do it in your

head and this is why I always encourage people write your channeling down and so we go I don't want to write it down I just want and I'm like cool that's its own experience that's a visionary experience but the reason you

write it down is twofold number one you write it down so that you have a record of it and in my case I wanted to study it over time and see how valid certain things were or weren't. Um, but also it

does something to you to read this information back. And this goes back to

information back. And this goes back to something we were talking about a minute ago with love and the heart. I once had a very successful client. She was an Australian businesswoman, had all the

success and material anybody could ever want, but she had a so many broken relationships in her life because she didn't hang out in intimacy very long and she could get quite aggressive with

people around her. So, she came to me because she'd heard of me and she was working with me on both relationships and a desire to connect more spiritually. I set her the task of

spiritually. I set her the task of channeling for herself. She was really annoyed at me and said, "Isn't that what I'm paying you for?" And I said, "Yes, and I will be channeling for you in each session, but trust me, I just need you

to go through this process for a few weeks." She did it. She came back and

weeks." She did it. She came back and she said, "Um, well, I did it, but it didn't work." And I went, "Oh, okay. So,

didn't work." And I went, "Oh, okay. So,

you've got no words." And she went, "No, I got words, but they were ridiculous."

And I went, "Okay, do you mind reading them to me?" And so she, let's say, her name was Jill. She went, "Okay." She

went, "Jill, you are a loving soul."

Well, that's not true, is it? Because

I'm not a loving soul. And I just said, "Jill, just carry on." So, she read all this stuff out and these were very loving words. She had never spoken to

loving words. She had never spoken to herself in that way. She had very aggressive parents when she was growing up, which is where a lot of the trauma came from. And so, after a while of her

came from. And so, after a while of her disbelieving all this, we were going back and forth on the sentences that she disagreed with. And I just said, "Have

disagreed with. And I just said, "Have you ever written words to yourself in that way ever, or spoken to yourself in that way?" And it was the first time she

that way?" And it was the first time she stopped fighting me and was silent for about 10 15 seconds. And I shared something with her that the Z's had said to a client just before,

"When you access channeling, you calibrate to a frequency of love that you might not be used to." I think of me with my self-judgment and my self attack. And all of a sudden, there's

attack. And all of a sudden, there's this new support team that I didn't have access to. It changes you. It's not

access to. It changes you. It's not

like, "Oh, good. I have a voice and that's helpful." It actually starts to

that's helpful." It actually starts to change you. it starts to change the way

change you. it starts to change the way you perceive yourself. It starts to change the way you perceive things. So,

this frequency of love, um, I was going home and privately spending an hour, an hour and a half at night writing all these questions.

But I will say this, when you're growing up gay and you're born in the 70s, and certainly if you're born earlier, this is even more true. Um, you're very good at compartmentalizing. You have to be.

at compartmentalizing. You have to be.

You have to have a life that you're not allowed to talk about inside you. and

you have to so in a weird way I almost look back now and think oh that primed me so I weirdly I don't remember being phased I remember being like this is fascinate like this is it was this thing

I couldn't wait to go home after my job to um and it's weird now because it feels like such a distant memory but at the time it was something I immersed myself in and it changed me.

Which was harder coming out as gay or as a channeler?

Uh, coming out as gay was pretty brutal with my with my parents. It was great with my friends and I came out at 16 and I had a very difficult experience telling my mom. So then everything went

into I'm I'm very close to my mom and we we were very close then but for about 5 years that fractured that relationship.

We repaired it later. Um, coming out as a channeler is way worse because it gets in the way of your connection with people. like even the fact that we're I

people. like even the fact that we're I I know you have the two books which are based on channeling but in my work um someone recently called me a soul therapist which I I liked the term

because often I'm struggling to explain to people what it is I do but the truth is I can sit here at this table and I can say I'm an energy intuitive I'm a

musician I'm a self-growth facilitator or spiritual teacher and I'm a channeler and everyone goes to channeler because it's the weirdest thing in the

So the problem with being a channeler is if anyone has skepticism about it or they're afraid of it or they're judgmental of it or they are suspicious of you because of it. All all the rest

is off. I can be having a great

is off. I can be having a great conversation with someone and all of a sudden it can change because of their belief system around that. And I'm like that's interesting. We were actually

that's interesting. We were actually having a really nice time.

It's like it's like when I tell people I'm an actor. It's like

I do have a problem with the term because what is the difference between that and just receiving information?

I agree.

You said you're you're a musician.

Yeah. Musician, energy intuitive.

Energy intuitive.

Spiritual teacher is not a term I like, but self-growth teacher, facilitator.

Great.

And then channeler. So, let's just focus on energy intuitive for a second because we've talked about on this podcast before that I think the word psychic has

been co-opted, misused. There's a ton of misinformation and and people it it doesn't work for a lot of reasons, right? So, people are looking for

right? So, people are looking for alternatives to describe what it means to sit down with someone and have either intuition or empathy. It

could be it could be that you sit down and you can feel them.

Yeah. And also I think this is a good place for me to say I it's not that I have a problem with energy.

No.

And it's not that I have a problem but the term I understand.

Right. So yeah, like it's not that I have a problem with intuition and I think it's important like we didn't ask you here for me to like disprove your

experience, but for me it's like I I don't know if there's a difference between look, some people are better at reading people than others. Like that's

something we're all comfortable saying, right?

Right. But that's what I'm talking about. You can sit down and sort of feel

about. You can sit down and sort of feel someone and you can feel someone on multiple planes of existence. No, there

you lost me again. But I'm going to tie it in.

What do you mean?

Okay, so you feel sorry you feel them on multiple. So

multiple. So So it's like so when we were talking to Terresa Caputo, she she says she uses herself and she gets signals herself about what about information. So she's

like when someone has like a death in a certain way, I taste and she described the taste, right? So, for example, when you sit down with someone and you are

highly empathic or you have um you know, you're an energy intuitive or whatever that might be, it could be like, "Oh, what's going on for you? I can clearly

feel it's grief. Oh, it's not a a mystery. Oh, it's actually feels more

mystery. Oh, it's actually feels more like romantic grief than it does a parent."

parent." You can feel the difference. If I walk into a room, because I was raised in a crazy house, if I walk into a room, I I can pretty much clock where people are at.

Yes.

And I think a lot of women may report this or people on the feminine spectrum that like, you know, I have my ex-boyfriend who used to say like, "Why do you know I'm upset when I don't know I'm upset?" I'm like, "Cuz I know." So,

I'm upset?" I'm like, "Cuz I know." So,

and I think that's true. Like Valerie

can tell when Jonathan and I haven't spoken for 12 hours before we sit in our chairs.

So, this is a good point. This is a good point. This this helps me understand

point. This this helps me understand where we need to go. Okay. So is that is is Valerie forgive me Valerie is Valerie an energyintuitive? No. Like you can

an energyintuitive? No. Like you can feel it in the air when two people are being icy. So let me explain where the how we

icy. So let me explain where the how we use the label energy intuitive for me.

Great. I mean there are several things I do but let me take it back to when I did one-on-one sessions for 15 years. Um and

my job you may have called me. I

couldn't see you. I would know whatever name you had given me.

Sure. Um, and I would speak to you. I

would say to you at the beginning, do you have any specific questions you want to ask me up front? If not, we're going to get to them in about 25 or 30 minutes, and you can ask me anything you want, and I'm just going to start talking and telling you everything I'm getting.

Is that what we're going to do for the rest of this episode?

We can if you want. I want to.

Are you sure?

Well, I'm hard to read because I exist on the internet. Everybody thinks they know me.

Oh, that's interesting. Okay.

So, you'd have to pull something out that like that I would know. Anyway, so

but go ahead.

Well, any and my my job wasn't performing a party trick to kind of prove something. It was the thing about

prove something. It was the thing about my job is I can't verify anything, right?

And actually in a way that was what trained me to do it for groups. And when

I stand on camera and do what I call my energy update, which happens at the beginning of every month and I say at the beginning, I'm Lee. I'm an

intuitive. And I take the pulse on what might be showing up for you psychologically emotionally and energetically. And then I go through

energetically. And then I go through eight themes that I receive from the same place I receive information about people. And then I riff on them and

people. And then I riff on them and explain to people how they might navigate what's coming up. Of course,

not everyone is going to find themselves in the eight themes. And of course, there are going to be a load of people who don't like me, don't like that kind of thing, of course. But for those who do, as an energy intuitive, in a way,

what I'm doing is inviting them to look at their own energy, their thoughts, their emotions, and and help them reorganize how they're feeling. That's

what I hear the most when people talk to me about my energy updates, which are probably the main thing I'm known for at the moment. That's probably the biggest

the moment. That's probably the biggest thing.

Um, people go, "I feel seen. It helped

me deal with something I didn't know was really going on, but you articulated it for me. Me and my mom always speak about

for me. Me and my mom always speak about the energy updates every month. So, it

gets us going and having a conversation.

So, it's not I'm not interested in how good I am or not. I'm interested in how useful I am.

My my goal is to be useful to people for whom this is of use.

So, I'm thinking of like I'm trying to find examples like when if I'm tuning into my own energy, right? So like I this is not a statement on Tony Robbins but there's a meditation that he does

that I really like right and you know we start from this place of like getting into our body like you know he teaches us to like drop down get out of our head and into our body and I'm

like okay I'm learning to do that and then he asks us to conjure positive memories.

Yeah. and to feel them in our body, right? Joe Despensza also talks about

right? Joe Despensza also talks about this, right? Then he asks me to imagine

this, right? Then he asks me to imagine things that haven't even happened that are also good. Like, oh, I can do that.

And you feel it in your body. And the

idea is that you feel some sort of like energetic elevation. That's the best way

energetic elevation. That's the best way I can describe it. If you're in a poopy mood before and you're in a better mood after, you've increased a certain amount

of serotonin, right? Yes, you've

increased your physiological millu to facilitate a different energy state so that if I'm in a shitty mood when I wake up and after I do this meditation, I can

say like I can make my smoothie, I can wake my kid, I can be loving, I can be helpful. That is a shift that I just

helpful. That is a shift that I just made in some sort of energy field.

Correct.

Absolutely. Did I do it?

Yes, you did. You shifted your energy from one state to another, right? Yeah.

right? Yeah.

And you could see that if you roll over in bed, I just put us in bed together.

If someone were to roll over in bed, which sometimes people say like, "Oh, my partner was in a really bad mood this morning." Right. You you can know that.

morning." Right. You you can know that.

You can feel it, right?

Yeah.

And then that shifts and it would be noticeable.

Yes. And there's a difference between being able to recognize someone is down or knowing perhaps one of the reasons why.

Oo, that's the difference. Empaths can feel energy. They have different levels of

energy. They have different levels of skill as to how much they can interpret what's going on for the person. That's

where the more psychic channeler side comes in.

So, I've met many empaths who are like, "Oh my god, I'm just feeling all the emotion in the room." And my advice to them is always then you need to learn how not to because otherwise you're hostage because usually empaths are not hostage to joy.

No, we're not.

They're hostage to pain and suffering. I

went through that myself. So what I had to learn to do was train myself as to where and when I focused. There were I mean it took me years and years and years and there'll still be moments in

my personal life where I'll I'll come up against it. But you know having recently

against it. But you know having recently met some empaths who are very much in that journey of oh my god I'm just a sponge.

Well I think I'm just responsible for the whole world suffering anyway. So

then I have to feel it all.

And on some weird level on some weird level. No you're not responsible. I'm

level. No you're not responsible. I'm

not going to break it to you. No, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no. But we do need a beaches, too. I'm just saying. Um, no.

beaches, too. I'm just saying. Um, no.

Um, no. On some level, what the Z's say

no. On some level, what the Z's say we're here for is to go on our own path of healing and to the best of our ability, help elevate the frequency of

the planet. The problem is people think

the planet. The problem is people think they have to do it all by themselves.

So, the isolated empath or spiritual person goes, I'm really supposed to help save everyone. and we get into bad

save everyone. and we get into bad discernment over what that really means.

Our our job is to do the best we can and to heal our own stuff because we've all embied what they call the human energy template. So when we got to this planet,

template. So when we got to this planet, what depending on where we were born, when we were born, and what we were born into, we're going to inherit a certain emotional temperature. If you're born to

emotional temperature. If you're born to very frosty parents and they are cold and they're not emotional, they're incredibly cerebral and you come in as this very emotional kid. Oo, that's

going to be an interesting recipe. Are

the parents conscious enough to go, "Ah, our child is different. We won't try and make them like us. We'll try and support them with what they need." Or, as is common for most of us growing up in prior generations, the parent thinks the

child is wrong, right? and tries to make the so then the kid then has to unpack all that stuff. We've all embied and inherited certain energies and the one

thing they say a lot which I love as someone who so was so good at self attack and blaming

myself for everything years ago. Um they

always say it's not yours.

It's not yours. You're carrying

something that's in the air and your job as a human is to try and alleviate alleviate it from yourself and then you become the formula of someone who moved through that. It's why the friends who

through that. It's why the friends who are now in horrible grief but you went through horrible grief 1015 years ago and it almost took killed you but you got through it. They're talking to you about their grief without even knowing

why. They don't know what you went

why. They don't know what you went through but they there's something about your energy field that is a place their grief can start to elevate.

So this is how energy fields work and the collective energy field of the world as we know it's not great down here.

Like one of the things I had to come to terms with which helped me as an empath is like oh there is brutality and suffering and darkness on this planet. I

didn't want to fully acknowledge that even though I'd had some of my own experiences around that and I also been adjacent to people who'd gone through some horrific things. But once I

realized that, it allowed me to stop trying to fight it with the light and instead go, "Okay, we're on a planet of duality. There's light, there's dark,

duality. There's light, there's dark, there's up, there's down. I need to do my best to stay as balanced and as centered as I can and move through it, and I'll keep learning as I go." So, in

a way, what you just said, I think many of us have worn that mantle of I've got to save everyone's suffering. I think

it's actually a spiritual truth, but we aren't supposed to overly personalize it or think we should do it all ourselves.

There are a lot of us here on the planet. There are more people want good

planet. There are more people want good than don't. I mean, it's a very small

than don't. I mean, it's a very small group that managed to, you know, bring a lot of darkness to the planet. There's

ease of have said that and then because of social media, it gets amplified, right? And so people start thinking that is when we're at a party of 50 people and it's 50 lovely people and one person has

a massive tantrum in the corner, who do we go home remembering? I was, you know, I was at an event recently where there was a big drama and five of the people who were there were saying to me, "Wow, that was a real drama." And I said,

"Let's not let that be the first thing we parrot about our friend's event because our friend had a lovely event that something went wrong in and it wasn't that friend's fault. Let's not

tell that story, but I knew why the people were doing it because I I would have done the same years ago." Drama

gets our root chakra and drama and inflammatory and you know it kind of it's so magnetizing to us or it has been and the trick is can we magnetize and create something else on the planet.

You guys are doing it with this podcast for example.

Tell us about it.

Well, you are creating discussion for people to examine what they believe, what they experience, what they understand. The people who watch this

understand. The people who watch this will either align with both of you or one of you or they'll enjoy when you two are disagreeing um even though you don't disagree

because you love each other. So that

makes this energy field very safe but the fact that you will sometimes have very differing opinions even though it might look like there's some kind of level of not conflict but disagreement

what you're actually doing is you're stretching the parameters of what's possible. And we all know that at the

possible. And we all know that at the moment on the planet, if there's one thing we need to be able to do, it's to have healthy, loving disagreements rather than people get triggered by something they disagree with and they

just want to kill the other person.

I mean, that's a very good explanation of uh what we call our healthy tension.

Often we describe different sides of a similar experience.

How do I know when I'm talking to you and when I'm talking to the energy that you're channel? Because when I channel, I I now

channel? Because when I channel, I I now close my eyes because I don't like channeling open eye because people start looking at your eyes and it's it's creepy and it's kind of distracting because my job as a channeler is to kind

of as much as I can bypass my own mind.

So if someone's looking at me um so I stop doing that after.

So you're not you don't want to be receiving that information and I don't want them trying to take that energy from my eyes. That was what I noticed at workshops. I was like, "Ooh, this

workshops. I was like, "Ooh, this isn't." And also, they're getting

isn't." And also, they're getting distracted and they're also thinking that I'm the thing that Thanks. Um, they're they're thinking

Thanks. Um, they're they're thinking that I'm the thing that they're supposed to be attaining. And actually, that's not true. I'm a person who is putting

not true. I'm a person who is putting something out into the room or bringing something through me that is designed to help them find themselves.

Okay, here's a fun question. What's the

longest time period you've ever chneled?

Like do you go on like 48 hour channeling experiences?

God no. So what's it like? No, no, no.

Uh because you get I get hot.

Um so uh if I channel for Okay, you have two books in front of you. You have

Energy Speaks and you have the future human. The future human is a book I did

human. The future human is a book I did with Regina Meredith.

Yes.

Um that was a very intense book for me as a human and as a body to do and it took me about two weeks to recover. We

did about three hours of channeling a day.

Can you explain the format of the book so people can understand?

Got it. So, Regina Meredith is um a brilliant journalist with Gaia TV. She's

a truth seeker around the hidden in the world and the shadow of the world. So,

when we decided to collaborate on this book, I did know that some of the topics we would be going into would not be the kind of topics that I would personally spend time in. they aren't actually it

isn't good for me to spend my time in too many of those areas but because I trusted Regina and I know how on it she is with her research

I said yes so the book is a series of conversations and the audio the audible version is the actual conversations as they happened of us sat in the studio I'm channeling and she is going through

all these questions about our world today war AI uh technology human health Um, how did we get into this state? So,

it's, you know, it's a it's it's Yeah, it took me two weeks to recover.

But all of the answers are from this entity.

Yes. And I called them the Z's because um my audience started calling them the Z's. They never knew whether they were

Z's. They never knew whether they were going to get Zachary, Zodor, or Zachariah. And then around 2013, they

Zachariah. And then around 2013, they said, "We're no longer differentiating.

We're just going to speak as one group because you need unity, not differentiation. So, we're just going to

differentiation. So, we're just going to unify again as one voice." Who are the other 85?

I don't know all of them. Um, I've the only ones that I encountered were more functional. So, for example, I

functional. So, for example, I encountered a couple of angelic beings.

I encountered a couple of beings who apparently are to do with my energy stability when I'm channeling. So, you

know, there's there's all kind there's engineers, there's admin, you know, there's there seems to be a whole kind of not everyone is on the podium in that group and nor should they be, I guess.

Do you write them all out in case we ever meet all 88?

No, I'm I am the worst. I think because I've been doing this publicly for 20 years.

I will make that spreadsheet for you. I

want to know all the different characters with you. I would sit down and and let you do that.

I mean, I would be so curious.

Well, cuz I'm wondering, are they different facets of an experience? Are

they different gender expressions? Are

they different?

What purpose, right, do they serve?

And there was Zachary obviously is a male name. When Zachariah and Zodora

male name. When Zachariah and Zodora came along, they said you would understand Zodora as the feminine to Zachary's masculine and you would understand Zachariah as right in the

middle kind of equal male and female and they said how you understand male and female is not how we would term it, but I was a little embarrassed to um I had

an audience for my channeling when Zachariah and Zodora emerged. And it

I'll be honest, you know, most of my friends are women. Um, and you know, I love women and I was a little embarrassed to be going out there saying I was channeling female entity. I was

like, "Oh, is this okay?" And it was it was, you know, but but this is the gift of channeling. It helps you get over

of channeling. It helps you get over yourself.

Okay. So, this is what I was going to ask. When you're channeling, let's say,

ask. When you're channeling, let's say, um, any entity, but a female entity, um, what does it does it feel?

I loved Zodora because it was peace. My

god, it was it was it was wide. It was

peaceful. It was it was it was an for me it was like an embodied experience of deep feminine strong energy. So strong

but very feminine very it felt very wide from my heart. Zachary is a little different and I and I experience them now not quite as wide as Zodora was.

Zafariah was a little um uncomfortable for me cuz she had a personality which the others don't really. So she had a bit of a

really. So she had a bit of a personality and so it was a bit odd.

And how do you know who's going to show up?

Well, now they're just they said in 2013 we're just going to be one group again.

Um because it's better that people aren't focused on who is it, what is it, what gender.

So what what does the voice sound like?

Uh uh. Is it male?

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when I hear it, it's still the voice of Zachary. And

when it comes through my body, it sounds like I think a a slightly faster version of my own voice.

Um and a little more um he's British.

Yeah. actually more Brit more British than I am which again is interesting because you know you'd like to have some control over it but you don't.

It's like when you choose your Siri.

Yeah, kind of. Kind of. I have a friend uh Wendy Kennedy who's a great channeler and she uh she she kind of sounds Australian when she does it. It's

interesting.

But she's not Australian.

She's not interesting.

She's very American, although she's quite European in spirit.

When you sit down to channel for someone, for example, if you were to channel for me or for my or for us as a as a group, an entity, is it that you're just getting

information from your guide? Do you

think that they have consulted with what our guides want and then there's some sort of back channel communication which then gets delivered to Do I have a Zachary?

No, you have someone else.

Well, I don't know. Maybe Zachary's No.

Source is the same. Yes,

you're getting messages from your guides, right? Great. This

right? Great. This

my my assumption is that your guides have had some backside communication with the guides of the people that you're sitting to communicate with.

Everyone would assume and then you're filtering it that through to you whereby or you could have connected for example directly to Mim's guides and then heard that directly. But

the way that you operate you actually have a relationship with disease. So the

information would get filtered through the Z's. The Z's are not Mim's guides.

the Z's. The Z's are not Mim's guides.

So there would need to be some sort of data transfer in order for you to get the information that's valuable to her.

I have guides even if I don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We all have to assume that.

That's the working assumption of what I'm trying to explain is that if everyone has guides, they're sort of have information on that person's behalf, but if they cannot access it

directly from their own guides, they're going to go through a channeler or an intuitive of some kind. And that

information needs to be communicated. So

it's not that the Z's are the guides for everyone, but they would maybe be like this is kind of a little bit like AI agents. Your AI agent would communicate

agents. Your AI agent would communicate with the AI agent of the person who you're going to communicate with an understanding of what the information is and then it happens to go back through your mouth.

You're asking me this like I should know the answer and I I I mean I can sit here and think about it, but but I do it. So,

I've never questioned how the sausage is made. I just know how to make the

made. I just know how to make the sausage. And basically, um, and and and

sausage. And basically, um, and and and there's two ways I work.

I like to think about the workflow.

Right. Right. I know. And that's good.

That's good. And that's why you have that's why you're wired the way you're wired with that technical mind of yours, which is great. And I love technical people. Um, because I'm not normally so

people. Um, because I'm not normally so technical. I can come at tech I can come

technical. I can come at tech I can come at tech and organization and structure on the back of I'm kind of experiential first and then I organize. Um so so

there are two ways I work and this is true for many intuitives. I can be sat here with you and I can start getting messages and part of it is feeling and yes is my channel to them open? Yes it

is. But it's not like they're feeding me words about you and I'm just copying what they're saying. That's me being an intuitive. Me being a channeler is

intuitive. Me being a channeler is something else. So I'll have my eyes

something else. So I'll have my eyes closed. They'll be coming through and I

closed. They'll be coming through and I don't and they'll be talking in a slightly more otherworldly way than I ever would. Um but regarding your

ever would. Um but regarding your question, yes, there is a level of permission that you are giving or anyone who is sitting down to a reading is giving to be in that reading. And

sometimes people I think they they overly attribute the power to the intuitive or the psychic. It's a two-way exchange and it's really about what is

it that you're meant to hear. So, it's

not me sitting there going, "Oh, I'm going to tell Jonathan something he's been avoiding for years and I'm going to hit him over the head with that." That's

not my job.

That's why I brought you here.

That's Thank you. That's not my job. Um,

and I just came here to meet CC Bloom.

Um, sorry about that. Um so so uh so so my point is if you're doing your job right, what you're opening to

is something you are a vessel for. But

you might leave my room or my phone session with you or my workshop and I don't fully understand what it is I was just a vessel for you for. But I know if I tune in on being the vessel and I know

what I know that feeling in my body so well now I know okay I did what I was supposed to do. I may never fully understand it.

So, this is another place where and we talk about there's a partnership in this energy exchange. So, if you come in here with

exchange. So, if you come in here with your arms crossed and you're like, "This is BS. I don't want it." Yeah. You're

is BS. I don't want it." Yeah. You're

not you're not going to receive it not because you get some award for being a skeptic. It's that if there is some

skeptic. It's that if there is some energy that is exchanged between humans, which we know that there is, there is a place of openness that allows that to come through. Just like when you go to

come through. Just like when you go to kiss someone and they don't want to be kissed, right? You can sometimes tell

kissed, right? You can sometimes tell from across the room that isn't going to happen.

That's what we're talking about also.

So, there has to be some willingness and openness. And then I think a lot of

openness. And then I think a lot of people you kind of dismiss it as like, "Oh, well, you'll believe anything.

You're so gullible. Right. We got my mother a psychic reading for her birthday last year. Um she since my father passed away, which was 10 years

ago. Um since he passed away, she's been

ago. Um since he passed away, she's been a lot more open to other death does that to people, other realms. And I come from part of my

family is Hungarian. And there's a lot of um cool, spooky women in many Hungarian families that have strange intuition, beautiful intuition, like a lot.

I mean, your mother says she's psychic.

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things.

Anyway, but when we got my mother this reading, she was so excited and she went and she had an amazing time and it was like, well, they told me this about your father and it confirmed it. And my kids, who are very skeptical, were like, well,

that's cuz she wanted to believe that.

But I'm also thinking maybe wanting to believe opens something up. We know from the placebo effect. We know from double blind studies that the placebo effect is

real in that if you believe something, if you are open to something, you are more receptive to actual growth, you know, improving immune properties. Like

we know these things happen. Belief is

incredibly important. We talked about this with Dr. Amir Raz. Dr.

is a um a hypnotist and a magician who's also a neuroscientist and what he studies is belief and how much belief actually changes it changes our our

brains it changes our physiology so for me this is like all on that kind of similar plane I was once working with a woman this was years ago and the disease said something to her at the end of the session when I was channeling them for her and she'd

gone through this major trauma with someone in her life and I had been encouraging her to go and work with a somatic therapist for her body cuz it was clear that there was so much going on in her mind. There was too much up

there which meant she couldn't get down into her body and her body wouldn't open. So, um she

open. So, um she the Ziz said to her part of because she was very scared to do it. And they said part of the reason you're going to work with a somatic therapist is you are

suffering from the effects of what another human did to you. And it's not just the skill of the therapist that's going to be the healing for you. it's

going to be that another human helps you put yourself back together. So, to me, there's always that element. There's

always that element of us helping each other. And and I think this is where

other. And and I think this is where people go wrong with psychics. They they

point the finger at the psychic or the medium or the intuitive and they go, "Oh, well, they're" and it's like, "No, they're just an ambassador for a dimension that you may or may not ever

believe in, may or may not go into." Um,

but it's they're not special. They're

just experiencing something and they're tapped into for whatever reason for their path, something that already exists that all of us potentially can tap into or are living in. Um, when I

did a course recently called Next Level Healer, I looked up persecution of healers with Google because, you know, this is a wound I've worked with with so many people over the years and I've come up against it myself as my own work has

gone through growth stages. It's like,

oo, am I safe out here and is this okay?

Um, and when you Google why have healers been persecuted in society, it goes back to religion and medicine control. So,

prior to the times when religious and medicinal control came in, there were lots of people who had all kinds of helpful plants and herbs and but it all

stems from there and the way to ostracize people was to persecute them.

We know that the witch trials got rid of really powerful, brilliant women who weren't allowed to be in power and a load of them just got bumped off under the guise of being a witch. So to me,

this is such an ancient history and I've heard that from them. We're just in a period of society where it has been in not in every culture, but in in the western world certainly scrubbed out,

denied. No, you this is the system. This

denied. No, you this is the system. This

is what you're going to do. And

actually, you can't stop people tapping into spirit. So death is a great opener

into spirit. So death is a great opener for people. And it's great your kids are

for people. And it's great your kids are skeptical. It's great they're skeptical.

skeptical. It's great they're skeptical.

Let them be skeptical to the end of their life or let them be skeptical until they're 24 and something happens to them. Because this is the other thing

to them. Because this is the other thing I think people often are fixated on spiritual teachers, gurus, psychics as trying to trick people into something.

Well, if you no if you are trust me and there are there are but in my experience and I've worked with thousands of healers around the world now um most of them are really

loving good people with like we all have their own stuff but they are committed to as the Z's call it working in the dimension of healing. Even when I did my latest course next level healer I knew

the word healer was going to be a bit of a problem but I was determined and it was like no that is the word. So, I set about redefining what is the word healer.

We're all healing each other all the time. Your worst enemy is a healing

time. Your worst enemy is a healing force in your life, even though you don't like it.

Um, our friends and our loved ones will help us heal when we're going through something. But there are those on the

something. But there are those on the planet who stand for the dimension of healing. They might be a nurse. They

healing. They might be a nurse. They

might be a doctor. They might be an acupuncturist. They might be a kids

acupuncturist. They might be a kids counselor. There's so many different

counselor. There's so many different hats you can wear to help people transform their lives. They might just be a codependent.

That too. That too. So So it was interesting doing Next Level Healer and and kind of going to Google going I've never googled this. And it was interesting if you Google why are healers so persecuted in society. You

see it all there and you see the history of it laid out and you're like so you know one of the things I said to the healers as we were going through the wound part is I said you know this is a wound that has been carried for hundreds

of years. It's lineage that we all

of years. It's lineage that we all interact with as we put our heads above the parapit and stand for what we're standing for. But if you're compelled to

standing for. But if you're compelled to stand for it, that's your life. That's

your path. You're not going to back away from it. You're just going to have to do

from it. You're just going to have to do some work on the part of you that is nervous every time you want to step forward.

I want to know what the most surprising information is that you've received from

your entities. meaning was there ever

your entities. meaning was there ever something that when it came through you were like there is no way that I could have would have generated this either

something that came true for someone or something that you were like I didn't know the answer to Avagadro's number and now I do yeah I'm not it's funny I'm not a

scientific person um so it and I've noticed this with channelers when you meet the channeler you you also see their alignment Like I've met some of the very scientific channelers as people

and they're very scientific people. So

there is an alignment. So I'm not necessarily the person who's going to give you some extraordinary number sequence through my channel. But there

have been things along the way that about parts of history that I'd never investigated or concepts that kind of I was like is is that true?

And then I'd hear about it or read about it years later. So there have there have been a number of those things over the years. Um which to me it doesn't again

years. Um which to me it doesn't again doesn't make me special. It just means everything is there in the field. It's

whether or not you tap into it.

Everything exists. It's just where our focus goes as to whether we're finding it or engaging with it. So I'm not very surprised these days. But I'm also I'm also like not looking to prove something

to myself. So I guess I don't really

to myself. So I guess I don't really track that stuff anymore. But in the early years, it was quite nice when you'd go, "Oh, I heard that from the Z's years ago. That's kind of nice to know."

years ago. That's kind of nice to know."

Or, "Oh, that's interesting. This

concept the Z's gave me." There is in in Eskimo culture, that's a thing. So,

do the Z's have any information or chime in on current events?

They do because my audience asks. So,

every month I go live and take audience questions um in in a members community I have called the portal. So yeah, I mean they do.

How do they feel about the Epstein drama?

Uh smokec screen. The word smokec screen.

Say more.

Uh there is truth in it and it is being used to divert your attention away from other things.

There is truth in the story and uh and that's why we're not supposed to look at it too deeply because it will it will take us down a tunnel that will reveal a lot more. And a lot of people already, I

lot more. And a lot of people already, I think, have access to some of that stuff.

Um, what is it that we're supposed to be looking at if not that, if that's a smoke screen and don't make the Z's be a political analyst?

Yeah. And I also, you know, I think what I think what's tricky in our sound bitey culture, Yeah.

is anything I say now uh can get pulled, can get used, and will get misinterpreted. Um, that's a bigger a

misinterpreted. Um, that's a bigger a bigger question. Um, but the one thing

bigger question. Um, but the one thing they've talked about is control. They've

talked about planetary control and that that's a current goal and aim for a very small shadow group on the planet. And

that is something that's been playing out, they say, for a very long time. But

it's it's rising to the surface to be publicly seen now in a way that we've never ever seen in our lifetime. And so

for many people, it's a destabilizing or horrific uh experience and time. And for

others who have perhaps been aware of some of the shadow stuff for years, it's it's um it's kind of a time that some people have been waiting for, not looking forward to because it's it's messy, it's difficult, it's dark. They

did say a few years ago that we could be in a way worse position now. Um we could we could have been in a way worse position a decade ago than we are now.

So they do say that there is a rising consciousness on the planet that is both also rising the dark and the control because there's a a frequency battle

going on between those two poles. Um and

the question is how bad does it have to get before it gets better? And they say that that's

gets better? And they say that that's very much up to how we as a humanity play it. And this is a time where we're

play it. And this is a time where we're moving out of top-down control of the people. And we're in a a period of time,

people. And we're in a a period of time, not just a year, but a set of years and decade that's all about people revolution and power back to the people.

People remembering they have a lot of power before we farmed out our power and the way that we are living to a system that has slowly over time become even

more corrupt. If I were to ask Lee that

more corrupt. If I were to ask Lee that same question as opposed to asking what the Z's, would it be a a a different answer?

Well, and I was I was speaking on their behalf from things that I've remembered that they've said, you know, they that's sort of what I'm curious about in trying to sort of distinguish, right?

If people are only listening, there's a body posture that changes when you're recounting. when you're accounting and

recounting. when you're accounting and you're sharing that when I asked you that question. wasn't even tunneling.

that question. wasn't even tunneling.

But yeah, that I'm going back to that place.

But you're it's, you know, if someone is only listening to that answer, they won't get the nuance of looking at you and saying all of a sudden, you know, in previous responses, you're looking,

you're engaged, your head is a certain way, and then now all of a sudden when you start a more philosophical planetary conversation, your head tilts, your eyes are gazing up, and you're pulling

information from somewhere else. Whether

that and I'm not speculating and I'm not denying that it is you know disease versus like and this is why I think it almost doesn't matter in a way.

It matters.

It matters depending on who you are and where you are. So to me it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

To you it probably doesn't matter. I

think when you've been in this kind of realm for a long time the details start to matter. But I understand completely

to matter. But I understand completely and you're also being amass Lee about the Epstein files. He might be like that's crazy. like Trump was in

that's crazy. like Trump was in it and blah blah blah. You know, I'm curious if there's that much of a difference for you.

The problem for me is I'm too privy to this stuff for too long. When they first started talking to me about shadow stuff and it wasn't cuz I they were telling me it against my will. I would ask questions about the world. I did not

like the answers. Like this was not the world I wanted to see. I, you know, I was in a nice I mean I was in my own little self-growth spirituality bubble and it was a curated bubble and it was a bubble that was helping me. And then all

of a sudden, you know, got real. I

don't know if I can say that. Sorry. Um,

but it was it was kind of it was a sobering I went through a very sobering year and a half in about 200

n where this was a part of my reality and it was coming to terms with oh well if this is real and if this is true and all I can say as Lee is at the time some

of the stuff that they were telling me that seemed a little sci-fi we are now watching on television screens and that's kind of interesting. you're like,

"Oh, they were not, you know, stuff that I would I would have hoped they were wrong about or I was mis maybe I'm channeling wrongly." Some of the stuff

channeling wrongly." Some of the stuff that we're seeing right now, some of the um yeah, some of the darkness that's playing out, acting out and um yeah, I'll give you an example of something

that could have easily sounded like sci-fi and or would be sci-fi to many people still. We just this week released an

still. We just this week released an episode with Greg Braden. Oh,

he talks about planetary control and the risk of giving up aspects of our humanity and talks about the World Economic Forum working through the UN to

with the possibility of implanting chips into infants brains to help the next generation compete in an increasingly competitive world. Mhm.

competitive world. Mhm.

That can sound absolutely crazy to many people until you start to dig in and to see are these conversations happening. Yes.

happening. Yes.

Are there initiatives? Doesn't mean that they're being implemented yet, but that could it be possible that this is actually being talked about. Now,

who gets control of those chips? How are

they implemented? Where is the data stored? like all of a sudden you can see

stored? like all of a sudden you can see that's a huge has many implications for the entire population.

Now you're like is that dark energy? Is

that positive energy? What you know you're splitting the two sides of a coin to say you know what is for humanity's benefit and what isn't. And it starts to

get really sci-fi and freaky and kind of crazy. you have in theory a connection

crazy. you have in theory a connection to a source of like truth with a capital T, right? As as yes, although many people

right? As as yes, although many people of course would argue that or would disagree. Um

disagree. Um I have a voice that I can go to when I am perplexed about my life or things in the world and I speak to them. I might

speak to them three times in a week. I

might not speak to them for four weeks.

It just depends what's going on in my life and I'm in their energy all the time because of my work. Um, it's

interesting, isn't it? Because it's all about are you controlling fear or are you controlling love on the planet and to keep people away from a loving world, you need them to be in fear. And we saw

what happened in 2020 and the amount of unnecessary fear that was pumped into people at a time where that's not what you know a a healthy healthy and I'll

I'll say it healthy world leadership would have taken care of people in a completely different way. And I think in a weird way 2020 was the beginning of a

worldwide wake up for many people. Um

and we're still in that wake up and there is a lot more to come out. the Z's

have said, you know, more is going to keep coming out that will shock people.

Do you talk to dead people?

Only for um clients. So, and and that hasn't been my choice, but they've come through in certain readings, but I'm not like a traditional med.

Lovely. God, dead people are so happy.

No, they are really, they're so happy.

They don't have to be here anymore.

No, because they're no longer in the construct of ego and personality. And

it's very moving when you verifying something for a person hits them because of course what what do we want with our loved ones? We want we want the

loved ones? We want we want the connection back in some way. So it's

it's it's been a it's been an interesting aspect of the work. Not one

I've ever advertised. Um, before we let you go, um, I wonder if you can sort of give us,

you know, your your understanding of what you were placed here both to do and to channel.

I Yeah. Um,

this so I didn't understand this as a kid. I was drawn to expression as a kid

kid. I was drawn to expression as a kid and I was full of expression in many creative ways.

But my job or what I've what I've understood of this period of my life this last 21 years is to um to I think make it safe

and grounded for people to explore their spirituality. And occasionally I'm

spirituality. And occasionally I'm spirituality rehab. Occasionally I'm the

spirituality rehab. Occasionally I'm the person that will say no you don't have to believe what the healer told you. No,

you don't have to believe what that, you know, I think I I'm I'm um my own philosophy of life is I'm a human being having a spiritual experience, right?

Which is most people. So, both are true for me. And I what I hear from people is

for me. And I what I hear from people is what I hear repeatedly is they like that I'm relatable and spiritual. Whereas, I

think when I was growing up, I didn't see that modeled a lot. uh the two together. But that wasn't anything by

together. But that wasn't anything by design. I think that's just, you know,

design. I think that's just, you know, you get feedback when you're out there doing your thing. You you hear the same feedback time and time again, and it tells you something about what you're standing for for other people.

Um yeah, and one more kind of personal question.

What's it like for you to be in a romantic relationship?

Well, I'm single right now, so uh so it's really easy right now. Um,

no. But do you feel like your energy is essentially for channeling and those kind of interactions or is there room for you to sort of engage on that?

Oh god. Yeah. Oh, completely. Oh,

completely. No, I am my most serious self when I'm doing this work and I'm No, I'm Yeah. No, I'm I'm And I don't normally bring these topics of

conversation up. I mean, I have loads of

conversation up. I mean, I have loads of connections in my life where these these things are not the topic of conversation. And I also need that

conversation. And I also need that balance. You know, I'm a full-time

balance. You know, I'm a full-time worker, so it's like, you know, you you need a break. So, people hand me spiritual books and I'm like, "No thanks. I'll do comedy. I'll do

thanks. I'll do comedy. I'll do

conversations about your life. I need

the balance." But in relationship, I think, you know, for me, like many, relationship has been like the learning area. I think um I've had some beautiful

area. I think um I've had some beautiful relationships and I think I'm coming to the point now, I just got divorced a couple of years ago. I was married for five years. We were together for almost

five years. We were together for almost eight. I've got to the point where I I

eight. I've got to the point where I I know I need to be in a partnership where the two of us have some kind of equality

in what we do and the interaction is coming from that place and wanting to walk alongside each other. I think in all my other relationships so far, I've been learning and growing. So, I don't

even really know who I'm going to be in my next partnership because this is I'm in a bit of a new phase the last couple of years. Well, it's the first thing I

of years. Well, it's the first thing I would ask on date one. Tell me about what the Z's say about our relationship.

And actually, I prefer it if people don't know about my work. I much prefer it if I can just meet them as a human and we can have our connection and then, you know, and actually I will tell you a

story with Steven, my ex-husband.

The first night he came to see me do my thing to an audience of people in Sydney Australia um it was very interesting. He said to

me at the end of the night, he said, "Okay." He said, cuz he'd just flown to

"Okay." He said, cuz he'd just flown to Australia where I was on a tour. And he

said, "Um, I'm going to take a shower cuz I have jet lag and then I'm going to come back and you're going to explain to me what just happened in that room.

You didn't prep him?"

Well, he we'd been together three months, though. You've got to see it.

though. You've got to see it.

And and also, when I work in a workshop room, I'm I'm working with people. It's

not just here's a channelneled recording, here's a book. I'm working

with people and you know it's in real time. So transformation is happening in

time. So transformation is happening in action.

And I literally he went to the shower and I was like, "Oh god, he's going to dump me now." Like that was my And he couldn't believe that was my narrative.

But my narrative around that would be I hope this isn't a problem for my relationship. And actually, it wasn't.

relationship. And actually, it wasn't.

It was the opposite.

I have two sort of closing questions.

One of them I think we could have covered way earlier. What do people come to you for? Like what are people who are going to workshops or consulting or looking for help and advice? What is

what's going on with them often?

Um because I don't do one thing, it's many things. But I would say that the

many things. But I would say that the the types of people who I tend to commonly get um come to me are people who are already

somewhat sensitive, empathic or open and they're looking to go deeper with it.

People who love channeling and that really works for them. People who are healers. People, you know, I have a lot

healers. People, you know, I have a lot of people who are practitioners. For

example, the energy update. You know, I have loads of practitioner friends or people in the field who will often say to me, "Oh, god, the energy update really helped me. I didn't know they were watching." So, I think it depends.

were watching." So, I think it depends.

Some people come for a quick fix of, "Oh, good. I just need to know how I

"Oh, good. I just need to know how I feel. He sometimes works for me. I'll

feel. He sometimes works for me. I'll

use the energy update. Okay, good."

Other people go really deep and they want to come to all the workshops and they want to, you know, take online courses. Um, but I think ultimately

courses. Um, but I think ultimately people are looking for themselves and you might be a person who can help them open some doorways in themselves.

Very helpful. And then I think there's a lot of people out there who are listening to different information on how to be more intuitive, how to

regulate their emotions, how to maybe develop extra sensory abilities or hone, you know, their their senses or maybe they're an empath that they feel

overwhelmed. If someone is seeking

overwhelmed. If someone is seeking struggling not hasn't found the right footing do you have a general advice that you would give them to you know

move towards a place where with more balance more uh optimism more sense of purpose in their life what would you say to them the first thing I would say is know what

you're seeking and why and know your pain because often we will go and seek things to outrun our pain and many of us did you know many I'm I'm no different.

You know, I went to spirituality and self-growth because I had a big bag of pain that I knew was in my way. And I

think sometimes people don't always tend to those two things separately. And actually, it can be very

separately. And actually, it can be very healthy to go, okay, I know I'm seeking spirituality, but let me also look at my human story so far in life, and wow, it has been quite wounded. Let me look at

those wounds. So I would say really know

those wounds. So I would say really know why you're looking into spirituality and what you're looking for but also understand who you are that has brought

you there because that can just quicken the process. And then secondly

the process. And then secondly uh trust yourself which can be a very hard thing to say but there is a tendency because we think we don't know anything about spirituality we'll

believe anybody or we'll believe the first person that tells us the fifth dimension should always be seen as blue and you access it by x y and z. I'm I'm

so not a fan of um rules like you know people will say well how do you become more less anxious? It depends who the person is. It depends on their trauma

person is. It depends on their trauma history. It depends where they're at. It

history. It depends where they're at. It

depends on their level. Sure, there are going to be some common areas around anxiety that will work for most people.

But the problem with spirituality is people, we as humans have a tendency to want the answer. And the answer is linear, rigid, and it's in a box. As

soon as you go into spirituality, you're in a multi-dimensional world. You are no longer in human land. So your human brain often has trouble breaking down those definitions, going, "Well, hang on. Well, this teacher said to get to

on. Well, this teacher said to get to the fifth dimension, I need to drink water only for a week. And then this person said to get to the And who's right? And it's like neither of them are

right? And it's like neither of them are correct. It's up to you to decide. It's

correct. It's up to you to decide. It's

you're going to get there yourself if the fifth dimension even matters to you.

And some people really care about that stuff. Um, so I think you have to go

stuff. Um, so I think you have to go into it knowing this is going to be a big playing field. This might take me a lot of time, but if I know why I'm here, what I'm looking for, but equally, if

I'm honest with myself about my basis, oh, my basis is I've come out of two abusive relationships. I also need to

abusive relationships. I also need to look at that so that I'm taking care of that imbalance in myself and not letting that imbalance drive all my decisions over here in the spiritual field, which

is why I'm self-rowth and spirituality.

I'm both. And for me, that's the balance point that works for me. So, it's just a few things I would say.

I think it's super helpful. Thank you.

This was such a fascinating conversation and really appreciate your um explaining all the things that I wanted explained in particular because I know um it's not necessarily the framework

that you have to operate in.

No, but I I get it and thank you for your thank you for your questions and thank you for having me. It was very nice to meet you both.

Really really awesome. Thank you so much.

[Music] I don't really know what to say about our new friend Lee Harris because I really expected I didn't watch him. I I

read about him. And obviously Valerie prepares a fantastic document, but I I kind of purposely didn't want to see him do his work or look up his videos. I

just wanted to like what's the information? Let's meet this guy. I had

information? Let's meet this guy. I had

no idea. I didn't think it would be like this.

You thought he'd have more puli on.

I thought it would be very clear.

Metaphorical puli. I thought it would be very clear that like this guy's making this up. He's making it up. He's a smart

this up. He's making it up. He's a smart person, so he knows beautiful and wise things about the universe. And you know,

in in in his in in my defense, it's not like he's saying anything so shocking, you know, like, oh, we all

need to put on purple hats and wear high heels, you know, then I'd be like, wow.

But he's saying things that that make sense that are very in line with a lot of psychological um you know structure, a lot of mystical structure. So I just thought he's a guy

structure. So I just thought he's a guy who's making it up and he's having some delusional experience. I do not believe

delusional experience. I do not believe that anymore.

You don't believe he's having a delusional experience? I don't think so.

delusional experience? I don't think so.

Okay. What do you believe?

What do you take away? What And like also he told you that you are very spiritual. You don't like that. You you

spiritual. You don't like that. You you

always say you're not spiritual. you're

not intuitive. He says otherwise.

Well, what I think is happening is that in the same way that certain people have an easier time dropping into a meditative space

um or have learned the skills with which to do so, something opened for him from a place of pain. You know, he describes that his

pain. You know, he describes that his kind of he had a he had a spiritual awakening, right? It's what a 12step

awakening, right? It's what a 12step program would call it, right? He had a spiritual awakening and that awakening um came with

information that I I cannot explain that he's generating on his own. I think what I appreciate about Lee is that um he doesn't have all the answers, meaning he

can't necessarily explain what's happening or why or how.

He's just experiencing something. And um

I do believe that um he's allowed to make a living at what he does. And I

also believe that his message is really one of love openness camaraderie friendship and connection. Like those are all good

and connection. Like those are all good things.

I agree. If you're watching this podcast right now, I am leaning over in my chair so that Archie doesn't eat the lever at the bottom of the chair that makes it go up and down.

He likes to chew on the levers of these chairs. I've noticed that

chairs. I've noticed that it's a little bit distracting.

I really do like the future human because it is literally it I mean as he said it was an entire channelneled book.

So all of the answers are from the Z's.

There's so many things here. I mean we didn't even get to it cuz I um I mean I was just so fascinated with his process and how he does this. Um, one thing I will say to people who are only

listening, not watching, I watched his face and his head, something different happens.

And something was happening when he was kind of going into his reading of you, which was his face was getting redder, his head was getting hotter. You could

kind of he wasn't like full-on sweating, but the skin coloration had changed. I'm

curious if anyone watching noticed that.

If you did, definitely comment. I think

it's an interesting uh you know he said he gets hotter and so I was watching that happen.

So one of the things that um is talked about in this book is he believes that there's something going on for a lot more people who are having access to this kind of information who are

interested in this kind of information.

I think we can see it even just by our podcast and what people are interested in and kind of um asking us to talk more about. And he said um that this kind of

about. And he said um that this kind of you know you could call it telepathic communication, you could call it you know um synchronicity. It says that um

this will become more and more normal.

There are still some people who are surprised when they choose to reach out to a friend just as the friend is also calling them or sending a message at the exact same time. This is going to become more and more the norm. It's because the

speed of your connection has not yet caught up with the awareness of your mind and intuition. You're all

energetically connecting with each other in stronger ways. I just thought that was interesting. It's something we talk

was interesting. It's something we talk about in how we reconnected after many years of not speaking um years ago. Um

and yeah, he also talks a lot about sexual energy here, but I'm not going to get into that right now. Well, Deepo

talks in our episode about how we're at a precipice where humanity is changing and sort of the the not negative, but the skeptical side of this is that oh, everyone says that

humanity has been changing and there's been all these periods of time and there was a change of consciousness in the 60s. And I don't necessarily know that

60s. And I don't necessarily know that that changes or degrades the fact that it's happen. It's happening now as well.

it's happen. It's happening now as well.

But it does seem like more people are aware of the skills and abilities that we all have and that our human experience can have a level of

interconnection that we're beginning to realize on a deeper level.

If you'd like to hear more about Lee Harris, go to leeharrisenergy.com.

I'm very very curious um uh to learn more about him. I mean, we learned so much today, but there's a lot more. Make

sure to follow us on Substack. We've got

some really special exclusive content from this episode that is over on Substack. Go to

Substack. Go to bolicbreakdown.substack.com.

bolicbreakdown.substack.com.

Uh the breaker community is eager to meet you over there. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.

have. We'll see you next time.

She's going to break it down for you.

She's got a neuroscience or break down.

She's going to break it down.