The Shameless Plug Episode 2: Kim Loo

Welcome to the Shameless Plug, a podcast

about climate, energy, and most of all,

about electrification. It's a new

podcast hosted by me, Saul Griffith, and

my mate Fiona Whitelaw. And we're going

to get to the nuts and bolts of

electrifying your life. In this episode,

we talked to Dr. Kim Lur, a general

practitioner, that's a doctor, and an

overachieving climate advocate who is

involved in at least seven

organizations, including Doctors for

Climate. She's long been an advocate for

electrification and uses kitchen

diplomacy, even chicken diplomacy to get

her point across. She runs induction

walk cooking classes for skeptical home

cooks. And she's so persuasive, she's

even convinced her 84year-old mom to

make the switch.

[Music]

Here we are today with Kim Lou, one of

my favorite climate activists in

Australia. Um, I'm actually going to let

Kim introduce herself. She has uh

started and worked on more climate

campaigns than pretty much anyone I

know. And I'm Kim, why don't you

introduce yourself to the audience and

all of your various affiliations

uh in the climate and energy space.

>> Okay. So, just to say that I've been I'm

a mom of two adults and I've been

working as a doctor for 36 years. uh

which is such a long time in western

Sydney and so uh I so my journey started

when I was a kid um and my parents are

Buddhists and so really it's sort of

consistent with living a life with a

very low carbon footprint and we never

thought of it as that but I now look

back and see that we really saved our

like we really reduce our energy use

constantly and we tried to reduce our

water use. My parents grew plants in the

garden. My dad was also an engineer and

he was a civil engineer

building dams and he helped construct

the he was involved with the snowy too

when he was a student and um he was help

helped in constructing and designing the

cycleways in Newcastle. Um

>> Oh, that's a very civil engineer. Most

of the engineers I know are univil. I

like I like the ones I like the ones

that build bike paths.

>> And um and my mom sort of started as a

music teacher and then became a social

worker. And so I think this has kind of

informed the way I uh deal with medicine

as well.

>> So that you view it from so a social

justice lens as well. And so I went I I

was a westy and I went to school in um

Western Sydney, went through Sydney Uni

and just

>> How far west was West when you were a

kid? Oh,

>> okay. So I went to high school in

Liverpool but I went to I went to

primary school in Liverpool but I went

to high school in Waga Waga.

>> That's west.

>> Okay, that's that's far west. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And so and then when I

became a doctor and working I mean the

social determinance of health were

really apparent when you kind of work in

Western Sydney work in Western Sydney

hospitals when you work in emergency and

you have people who come in in crisis

and they have no home to go to when you

send them out or no one to look after

them. And so it was so apparent really

early.

And I sort of became a general

practitioner when I was like, oh god, in

1991 I graduated 1993. I graduated in

1989 and just working in Western Sydney

and just still sitting seeing people um

kind of like living in really difficult

circumstances. And because I've been

done house calls now for like over 30

years, you could feel the rising heat

because it's getting hotter. You get out

of the car, it's hot. you go in the

patient's home is either cool or just

just really muggy. So, you know, like I

could see that, you know, where people

live really determines how the the

ability to look after their health

>> and so I've seen this for years and

years and all that stuff with doing the

stuff for the house I kind of grew up

understanding

and um I I used to read Renew Economy uh

with Charles Parkinson and so I kind of

followed the battery stuff and

technology stuff for years and years and

years and then I kind of when the the

Tesla Power Wall came, I kind of was one

of the first 50 people to get a Tesla

Power Wall and um have the my panels

installed then. So, I had years where I

just made my house thermally efficient,

all my gardening stuff, and then like

I've fully electrified in 2016.

>> Oh, wow. You're maybe the original

electrifier in Sydney then.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, and then with all the white goods,

there's one died. I just replaced it.

>> That's a program we recommend at

Rewiring Australify.

>> And so, I was kind of doing all this

stuff on my own and then I thought,

well, you know, I've done the

electrification. I need to tell people

about it. So, I invited the local

council to my house and so three of the

counselors came just to see the

technology. So I wanted to make sure

that they understood how much you saved.

So the basically I had one counselor at

a time and then um what happened was the

current mayor who was a counselor then

was just really amazed of what you could

do with your house and um and the energy

savings and that's how I got in contact

with a journalist who's now my friend.

So I was in the Daily Telegraph like in

2016 for the money I was saving at home

from electrifying

and at that time I kind of hadn't joined

any climate groups. I had a friend who

um had his uncle started citizens

climate lobby in Australia. So that's an

American um advocacy group teaching

people how to lobby politicians but like

the lobbyists do.

>> I mean I just I want to I want to

backtrack for one second. Not only were

you one of the first people in Australia

to fully electrify, but you know, being

early in the Daily Telegraph as a

climate activist, that's that, you know,

you deserve a a medal for that.

>> These are amazing things that you're

involved in and that you've kicked off.

But the thing that I was reading the

little bit in the book about the cooking

and I was just like did you what what

got you to the point where you thought

it's important to reach people through

the magical medium of cooking? You know

why why is this an important thing to

kind of hook into my climate change

story activism? Why cooking?

>> Because okay because I love cooking. My

mom's a really good cook and she used to

teach cooking classes.

>> Yeah. Right.

>> Okay. Yeah. And so in Waga Waga because

when I So I went to high school in Wagaw

Waga when there weren't many Chinese

restaurants and so she started Chinese

cooking classes in the house and she had

about 10 people anytime. So it's kind of

my mom sort of I'm standing on my mom's

shoulders for doing the cooking stuff.

And so and I mean I do a lot of stuff in

my house. I do a lot of cooking on my

induction cooktop anyway. I had lots of

parties and so a lot of my friends were

exposed to it

>> and the next step was just to do the

cooking for the community

>> and so what's happened is that now we do

cooking things on a regular basis cuz

councils are aware of us and so and

because you know when you're cooking cuz

I I did well my favorite one was when I

did um a cooking demonstration for

Cantonese fried rice and we had about 80

um Cantonese speaking people. I think

most of them were over 75 and it was an

existing group that get together anyway,

>> right?

>> So, I had an interpreter with me cuz

everyone calls me a banana. It look

yellow on the outside, but I don't

really speak much Chinese. And this is

the problem when

when you've been here for a couple of

generations

>> and like and and I was when you're

cooking and I and I was just talking

about cooking and vegetarian cooking and

how you know it's just you can achieve

the same degree of hotness and I was

using a a plug-in one

>> and so people and when people can smell

the food and you're talking to them I

think it kind of engages their brain to

actually take on more information. This

is amazing and and you're sort of

covering

all the ground here like one of the you

know I interviewed you for the book I

just wrote plug in largely about

>> how do we get people to accept uh

induction and electric cooking and

you've gone straight to the one of the

hardest cuisines and one of the hardest

things to do which is to prove to an

ethnic community that it will cook their

ethnic cuisine well and you're doing

fried rice

>> and the off criticism is wait but what

about the electric walk it just don't

work but you're telling me it was um and

then how you can you know convert

>> older generations. It's an extraordinary

story.

>> Was there skepticism? Were there were

there I want to know what the look of

the the were there people going h I

don't know.

>> Oh no say that I've done quite a lot of

cooking. I mean specifically with even

with the that the Eastwood one with the

lots of elderly Chinese people were just

fascinated. They came and felt the

induction cooktop after the walk was

empty cuz they'd eaten all the rice. I

turned the walk over and they felt it

and they looked at it and um people are

just fascinated and the most recent one

I did was like a week and a half ago and

um yeah people came early whenever you

organize a cooking thing okay you say

six people come at 4:30 it's just like

so we have people walking in so I was

explaining the induction cooktop how

easy it was to use and people and the

walk I had there was from IKEA so it was

um a ceramic walk. That means the

surface of it is coated in ceramic. So

you deal with it like you would deal

with um a cast iron walk. All the

measures you make to do to make it and

people are just fascinated

>> where they turning it over. I I you know

I think we're all living in the long

shadow of um you're better off cooking

with gas right down to the stereotype

cooking with gas and you can understand

that the gas is heating it. Um but with

induction it does appear that it is

magic that is making it it's that is

making it work.

>> I know even just um putting water in and

seeing how quickly it boils everyone

wants water you know like

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So it's that's why I think that I think

the cooking demonstrations are really

the most effective way for advocating

for regarding induction and the councils

are really aware. So I've done a couple

uh me and my co-workers in Asian

Australians plus my kids sometimes. So

we've done several things for um inner

west council, Willoughby Council,

Chhatzwood. Um and so we are getting

ongoing people booking us for induction.

Um, so workshop

>> I I think I I think about this a lot

because at Rewiring Australia, we're

trying to ex expand one community at a

time and I think really it is local

action and people learning to trust

these things that are going to help them

embrace the future. So I'm really

interested in So you've gone from one

community so you know is there going to

be a national cooking with Dr. Lou? Uh

is there a plan to go big? So now I mean

we've also got cooking demonstrations in

Victoria cuz we've got we've got Asian

Australians for climate solutions in

Victoria as well. Our our chair is in um

South Australia. So we've done so we're

kind of in those three states now. So

it's uh we haven't expanded into the

other states and um

>> more important as of today because of

Victoria's new policy about trying to

get out of home

>> guests. Yeah.

>> So thank you. Thank you, Lily Diamio,

for your great work and for Victoria for

leading the world. Um, Dr. Lou will now

come and help you learn how to learn how

to cook.

>> Yeah. And and the like the amazing thing

is, you know, that the CRA government

has um has a program where they're

giving um uh professional kitchens, I

think $30,000 to start change transition

their kitchen to electric. And I did a I

did a panel with professional chefs,

four professional chefs about forgotten

about 4 months ago. And um I mean in

terms of the professional kitchen, it's

like it's less hot and like you know gas

heats up a kitchen and the chefs who

actually came

>> um were interested.

>> Um and so and they understood understood

the heat factor cuz in terms of the

thermal efficiency of the kitchen, you

actually spend a lot of money keeping

the kitchen cool.

um when you have gas whereas when you

have you have a cooler kitchen

commercial kitchen when you have

induction.

>> Yeah. I've heard them described as as

cold kitchens or cool kitchens even

though they've obviously got just all

the same heat for cooking the food. It's

about 50% less heat that they give off

for the same amount of cooking. So that

is a pretty huge win.

>> I know. And so the the chefs who were

transition who were there saying it's

amazing. just you know as an aside like

um you know you know everything about

this so when I have a chance to know

anything I'm going to say something um

for one home you can do it on

traditional electric circuits but when

you're doing an industrial kitchen with

a whole bunch of uh induction burners

you you need pretty industrial um

connections to the grid and so it

requires advanced sparkies not just your

average sparkies to uh connect those

industrial kitchens so we're still

working on that workforce issue in

Australia But um it's great that the

government's helping out on that now.

>> It is amazing. That's why you know

sometimes cuz you know I've been

advocacy for so long when someone asks

me to do something and stuff has been

done I feel oh my god it's there.

>> And that's now this is why cuz I think

part of it is um you guys ask me why I'm

in so many groups is that whatever we do

in one silo everyone needs to know about

it.

>> Okay. Because if there's so many people

working in silos within climate movement

who don't unaware. So like like every

time I see a climate advocacy advocate

who's not a doctor, I'll actually say

how much you know doctors for the

environment has done in terms of

advocating and advocating for meaningful

solutions because they don't know we've

existed since 2003 doing this. When

other people know what which what each

sector is doing and people are working

their butt off, it makes everyone feel

better.

>> I think the world's hungry for like, you

know, give me an answer, make this work.

You know, I think we, especially in

Australia, we we're pretty aware of

actual climate as a real problem. And so

now we're in the

>> give me give me give me give me

solutions. So I think this is great. Um,

I'd be fascinated to maybe get the, you

know, your day job is doctor and you

speak very eloquently about the health

benefits of cooking electrically and

there there some of them are surprising.

So, I'd love to hear your your doctor's

eye view of what we're doing here in our

kitchens.

>> Oh, look, in a way, I'm going to do my

mom as a like to start off with. So, mom

has been cooking with gas for so long

and I was trying to change her to

induction because all the safety issues

cuz I've got my mom's 84

>> and when all four burners went on one

day when she turned it on, that was the

time I could do it cuz as an older

person I was afraid of her leaving the

gas on, having her burn down her

kitchen, leaving a tea towel next to it.

It's just all the safety issues with the

air pollution. And the problem is that

you when you have a gas cooktop that's

off, you can still leak um carbon

monoxide methane benzene and

formaldahhide. And so all those things

it are like odless. If people have

leaking gas and they don't know about

it, they could be harmed by it by it

permeating through the whole house. So I

changed my mom to induction and like I

could actually not worry about her after

that in terms of what she was breathing

in the house that she wouldn't burn down

the house, burn down herself. And so and

she's adapted at the age of 84 cooking

her Chinese cooking on her induction

cooktop. So if an 84 year old can adapt,

I reckon anyone can now with my

patience. all. So, most people don't

know don't know that when you actually

cook with methane on your cook top that

you release carbon um nitrous dioxide.

And like there's years of studies of

nitrous dioxide impacting on kids lungs.

And we know that kids have increased

risk of asthma

um if you have a gas cook top cooktop at

home or a gas stove um um gas heater.

And so, and also it sensitizes children

to house dustmite. And house dustmite,

if you're a parent with a child with a h

house dustmite allergy, my daughter did.

It's it's actually a bugger to treat.

Like you have to change everything, take

all everything out of the room that's

going to create dust and it's just it's

a change in life for that kid and a lot

of work for the parent. If you can

prevent your kid having dust allergy,

that's a great thing. And the other

thing is that you get particulates as

well that get when you burn gas. And so

like anyone with my patients with

chronic asthma, respiratory disease,

heart disease, I just say look, if you

can actually turn off your gas, um it

will actually help your breathing and

your um you'll feel better. So, I've had

a few patients cuz what I suggest, you

know, look, people live in rental places

and they live in houses that um there

will be expensive transition. So, I get

them to somehow turn off the gas and

trial with induction cooktops that you

can plug in. And I should get a

commission from Westinghouse.

>> Yeah,

>> because I do recommend it because that's

the one I I trial.

>> I actually think this is a great

on-ramp. I I bought a an industrial

oneburner walk cooker that's

unbelievably fast to sort of do my

amateur version of what you do. Show

people that the walk can work. But there

are totally workable $50 single burner

inductions that are a great

introduction, help people get there. And

just to add my anecdotes and about my

parents to your anecdotes about yours,

my

85year-old father's asthma largely went

away when they eliminated the gas

cooktop and the gas heating from the

home. Um, so he'd been suffering for

many years and it's it's been

respiratory victory.

>> Yeah. And the safety I was listening to

you talking about the safety thing. I

mean, that's I did the same with my mom.

Got her to put in induction because she

almost set the house on fire three

different times. She had one of those

electric but with a with a coil, you

know, the really oldfashioned ones with

the coil elements on it and you can just

leave something on there and it just,

you know, catches fire straight away.

And I was, yeah, really interested in

kind of, you know, now that we're trying

to do this, live at home, stay at home

as long as you can, aging in place, you

know, all of these kind of things. And I

thought as a doctor you must just have

just this, you know, do you think that

that's a a big part of making people's

lives easier to just stay at home for

longer if they can have reliable heating

and cooling, you know, induction

cooking, safety, that sort of

>> Oh, look.

>> Oh, absolutely. Um I mean looking, we

did the survey of um Okay. KOD code is

which is the council for the age

considers people over 50 in the elderly

group and I thought oh seriously

>> yes.

>> Anyway did a survey and you know it is

like like just going into a lot of

houses the thermal efficiency of the

house is so important. A lot of people

if they are can't afford especially my

elderly patients if they can't afford

heating what they do is they stay in bed

all day because it's warmer

>> and so like they and their exercise goes

down the ability to move around I mean

part of the reason that okay heat waves

are like a big problem is that even if

you have a thermally efficient house

you'll stay in the house you not go out

and move around so the whole population

just becomes less fit and that's the

problem with heat waves whole population

becomes less fit.

>> Do you think you've seen that in your in

your 30 years as a doctor?

>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Because like like I

cuz I do lifestyle I practice whole

holistic medicine. So I look at people's

lifestyle and the way they live. So part

of my history when I take a history from

a patient is looking at what time they

eat, what they eat, uh what time they go

to sleep, um and what their energy is

like. Um, so I, so I understand because

you can't actually, this is what I teach

to my medical students. You can't

actually deal with someone's health

unless you know how they live.

>> Okay? Cuz I, so and like, and then you

look at socially, do you have family who

are near? If you're in trouble, in

crisis, who do you call? So I try to

network patients who are living in

isolation if you can, cuz living in

isolation, you can die from almost

anything.

>> Okay. And then part of that is then I

ask about what is your house like? Is

there one room that you can actually

seal off and keep cool? Um is any fans?

So I talk about thermal efficiency, how

to do windows, um how if they live in

their own house, where to put plants,

but to put fans in each room and how to

cheaply thermally efficient. So I do all

that stuff with patients so that they

know what to do. I mean

>> I like to think of Dr. Lou arriving at

the house as a GP with doors snakes in

your bags.

I really wonder why you people like you

and I obviously passionate about climate

action but for multiple reasons but I'm

really interested in why people care. I

don't and I don't think I think it's

lost from the narrative now like why do

you care about solving climate and why

do you care about making it a better

world for the kids and the the elderly

and all the things and I think it's

hugely important to get more

storyoriented and less science in a way

less data

>> statistic oriented

>> yeah so I mean I tell the stories of my

patients people have lived through heat

waves in western Sydney so when I talk

about heat waves and like the adaptation

and the solutions like

the people are responsive. I mean the

people who come to the seminars and

webinars are the people who understand

but you get more people now like there's

more people now I don't recognize

>> who come to things that I speak to.

>> Okay. Um because you can like you know

in the old days when you do any

community thing it's about climate you

have two people in the room two

presenters.

So

>> I see more and more people showing up

but I'm starting to worry that they've

all got gray hair like

>> I know like

>> I think we're I think we're doing a

great job of engaging I think you called

us the the medically um decrepit or the

over 50s.

>> Um but you know how do we how do we get

the stories to the 25year-olds? I mean

I've got so my kids are the group that

you want to engage with. My son's 25, my

daughter's 21.

>> There are young people who are medical

students because they're now through

years of advocacy. Um the medical

students are talk about taught about

climate change. So all the doctors

coming through and it takes like I do

some amount of climate change and the

way we've done it is integrate it into

the medical curriculum cuz everything

every single organ system will be

affected by climate change

>> or the impacts of heat or air pollution.

>> If you think of air pollution effects

really affects increases the risk of

cancer, heart disease, lung disease,

dementia. So every single organ system

is affected by air pollution. And then

if you look at heat waves, it impacts

I'll just say air pollution also impacts

the baby from the point of conception if

you live in a polluted enough space.

>> And just as a reminder, the principal

causes of air pollution in any modern

environment are the fuels we burn in our

cars at street level, what we burn in

our power plants creating NOxes and so

that's nitrogen and sulfur dioxides. So,

they're the pollutants you're talking

about. E.

>> Oh, absolutely. And um this is why I've

done air pollution advocacy for so long

cuz people think it's good air in

Australia, but it's not.

>> We've got the poorest pollution

standards compared to lots of other

countries for our um for our particullet

and our um and our aerosols.

>> And kind of like Los Angeles, our uh cuz

Los Angeles was famous in the 70s for

air pollution. But we have the same

problem. The seab breeze comes in in the

summer, pushes the pollution out towards

the Blue Mountains and it just sits over

western Sydney.

>> Oh, especially with the air pollution

stuff when people I say, "Well, if you

stand behind a diesel bus, what do you

smell?"

>> Okay, you you actually whatever you

smell goes into the airways in your

system.

>> And they did a very elegant study in um

the UK where they got a person to

breathe in gold particles the size of

2.5 microns. And they um and they found

that they went everywhere.

>> Right.

>> Okay. 2.5. And they've done also put

people in chambers where they put small

amounts of diesel and have found that

they made the blood vessels more

reactive. Okay. Okay. This is in the UK.

Um, and so we know that well that was

from diesel and I don't know like

obviously they were had someone young

and fit to actually breathe in the

diesel but if you if you're actually if

there's a lot of diesel vehicles and

you're next to it

>> is a speedway enthusiast. She probably

has comments on breathing breathing in

the diesel and the the petrol.

>> Not so much diesel but yes I I know what

you're talking about and also bushfire

smoke is the other thing I was thinking

of. So we've done lots of

>> yeah research into that in Australia.

those small parts.

>> Yeah. So more people died from the

bushfire smoke than actually during the

bushfire.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So air pollution and then and heat

waves also um affect every single organ

system. So that's how we inserted it in

the medical curriculum. And so there are

so many doctors now who are in the

advocacy movement. Um the Australian

Medical Association declared a climate

health emergency in 2019 and so did the

Australian New Zealand emergency

medicine

>> um group and our college of general

practice. So pretty much all the

colleges have declared as a climate

health emergency.

>> Uh and so this is why I'm passionate

about my advocacy because the end point

is if you do bugger all it's the health

system that cops it.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. and the health system is already

stressed and strained. More people will

be sick and die if we don't do something

about adaptation and mitigation.

>> Kim, have you seen presumably you've

seen people with suffering from heat

stroke? You know, what does that look

like? And when your patients are

suffering in this way, can you

>> So just just going through the ways that

people die from heat waves. They die

from cardiovascular collapse, from renal

failure or from heat stroke. Most in

Australia when you look at most of the

people who died that's from

cardiovascular collapse and so because

you can actually be an old person with a

little bit of heart failure sit in a

room that's getting hot because of the

mechanisms we use to cool down blood

gets taken from our core to our skin and

we sweat.

>> Mhm.

>> So they an old person can sit there not

have their core body temperature go up

and die.

>> Right. So they may not they might not

even feel too hot. They might be like,

"Well, I'm hot, but this is okay."

>> Yeah. So, because when you deplete your

heart from blood,

>> your heart has nothing. Yeah. It's

really It's terrible.

>> So, obviously, a lot of the heat

problems, especially in places like

Western Sydney, these are come down to

the built environment.

>> And given that my wife is an avid, in

fact, a master gardener, I'd be remiss

not to say, you know, ask you about your

garden and tree solutions that you've

passionately have implemented in your

own life. So talk to us about how you

know it it can even come down to just

how you you build your garden out.

>> So okay with my garden um because I love

gardening anyway I um so I kind of

planned my garden cuz when I came I had

grass in the front yard

>> that was hydrophobic. Um and so

eventually now so the outcome of my

front garden is I mulched it and

>> with permaculture is what I do is

permaculture so you don't use any

poisons you don't do much digging um and

uh you don't use any artificial

fertilizers so I'm I use leaf mulch and

put like that much was about 20 cm of

leaf mulch and waited and if you I

waited 6 months and what happened was

the soil it created soil. They could see

the mcelium in the soil. You could see

the earthworms and I chucked all the

plants in. And it was like I had three

existing pines. It was like they were

put on steroids. Have tripled in size.

>> Right.

>> So my front garden is like a little

haven for lizards, small animals, little

birds. So they have shelter and food.

>> This has had an effect on the

temperature of your house though, right?

>> Yeah, it does. my front yard when you go

from the street and walk to my front um

pagola it's just so much cooler so it's

cool down the front of my house now my

back of my house um my son's room was

facing west and so I did the cheap

things initially I put a a blind outside

his room but in the end I put a

wraparound pagola around my backyard and

now that's got um passion fruit and

grape um grapes growing along it and so

it's the it keeps the whole back garden.

Cool. Plus, I've plonked about maybe 20

25 trees in the backyard. So, I've got a

fruit forest in the backyard and I've

got two raised garden beds, a wicking

bed. So, wicking beds are the most water

efficient ways to water garden. So, my

builder built it and um so I've got

>> We're going to have to have you back for

a garden specific episode.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I need to know about

gray water. I need to know, you know, do

you have some elaborate

>> gray water system going on or you just

watering it from

>> No. And I've got a water tank anyway

that's specific for the garden cuz cuz

my use of water inside the house is

pretty low anyway.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> I And all the water I was using was for

the backyard. So when I had my gutters

done, so I've got a very large water

tank sitting against my western wall. So

So 4,000 L water tank. So it cools down

my family room as well. So, it's a

massive water cooling down the family

room.

>> Kim, can I ask you like to get a little

bit more specific about, you know, you

bought a house. Um, you're in Western

Sydney. It sounds like it was a I'm

guessing a pretty standard house when

you bought it. You said it's got a lawn

out the front. Um, what energy was there

when you bought the house? What did you

change? When did you change things? What

kind of guided your process? and are you

now um fully electrified? You know, can

you just talk a little bit about the

choices that you made along the way and

what kind of guided those choices?

>> Okay. So, I didn't have a specific guide

cuz I just read a lot.

>> Um so, I understood I understand

gardening and I understand the

processes. So, a lot of the stuff I did

to start off with was with the garden.

>> Also, when I bought the house, I didn't

have much money.

>> Yep. So that's why I start with all the

cheap things that I could.

>> What sort of cheap things did you start

did you crack into first?

>> The back pagola was also pretty warm. So

I went to Bunnings and bought like the

Holland blinds

>> and um so my pagola has sort of three.

So I bought three Holland blinds for

that to cool down the pagola. I bought a

blind um for my son's bedroom. Um so

because he had the was just so hot in

his bedroom. So, you waited for the

solar to get a little cheaper, you

waited for the car to get a little

cheaper, you waited for the battery to

get a little cheaper, and then picked

your moment, I guess.

>> Yeah, it's picked my moment. So, it's

really cuz the way I look at it is I'm

sort of really hyper alert to things

that I can do to improve how comfortable

I am in my home.

>> When I could afford it, then I added

things. Like, one of the last things I

did was my windows. I've got double

glazed windows.

>> Oh, right.

>> And because they were so expensive and

so I did it one half of the house and

the other half of the house.

>> So, um, so my journey was a bit patchy,

but I knew what the conclusion

>> in in all honesty, it's going to be a

bit we're all unique as snowflakes like

that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I mean, but I've had

my chooks for um, the last 10 years,

>> right? Um, and as a small kid, all I

wanted was chickens.

>> They are pretty great.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, cuz chickens are part

of the garden and the composting system

and the food waste system and um and

they're living in Fort Knox now because

I've had three lots of chickens taken by

foxes.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> I used to let them roam, but now I don't

let them roam besides the little

destructive things as well. So now

they've got a 26 square meter chook

house that they stay in all the time.

>> 26 m doesn't sound like chicken prison

to me. That's pretty luxury.

>> Yeah, that's actually quite

>> Yeah. So So and I put five trees in the

house and um so they've got that and

they they're surrounded by a row of lily

at the front at the back and they're

surrounded by trees in the front. So the

chook house.

>> Would it Would it embarrass you if I

asked you whether the chook house was

bigger than the children's bedrooms?

>> Oh no, the children's bedrooms are

bigger.

>> I can't imagine anything more Australian

than a a rabbit wire chook house. So

your ch your chooks are indirectly

cooling the house and dealing with your

the Western Sydney heat problem for you

cuz they're growing the help growing the

plant. So these are cool ch cool chooks.

>> Yeah, they're cool chooks. And um and I

think it's really funny cuz I carry a

bucket with every single dinner I go to

now and and could take to take the food

waste. Um even I go to Oh, look. I go to

really sort of formal dinners and I walk

around with this ch bucket.

>> Yeah.

>> Jobs.

I'm picturing you in a ball gown just

marching around with this sort of 10 10

liter bunnies. Part of it is is still

choke advocacy because they're reminded

of food waste and food waste and methane

is a significant contributor to climate

change cuz you don't actually have to

talk about climate change cuz people

really care about food waste.

>> The the chooks don't do methane out the

kaka do they?

>> I think the methane source they reduce

the methane

everything to do with chuk poo.

>> Yeah, they're better than a cow.

>> There's a lot of uric acid in chukpoo.

Yeah. So yeah. So

>> future episodes we will dig deep on

chook poo

>> on different yeah different types of

poo.

>> So you do chook diplomacy to introduce

people to the wonders of of gardening to

deal with the island effects and you do

and you do kitchen diplomacy to sell

>> induction walks to the Australian Asian

community. It's pretty extraordinary.

>> So it it's really what can you do so

that people understand

cuz they have to want to come. Okay. If

you create an event, people have to want

to come to it.

And like they I now I get usually a

plastered me and pink scrubs standing in

front of frying as the like the thing

that that they put on the flyer. But

that's okay. It's so much nicer to have

that to have that conversation around

like cooking,

you know, chooks, whatever it is,

instead of cuz you know, you could have

gone down the path of just going heat

stroke is no fun. And you know, I mean,

we did we talked a bit about that and

but I think people switch off when they

they get a bit of bit scared about, you

know, those kind of the gnalier aspects

of climate change. And so to go about it

the way that you have is, you know, you

can just see that message getting across

so much more um effectively because

people just aren't doing that thing

where they just get freaked out and shut

down, you know.

>> Yeah. And I think it helps being a

general practitioner that I understand

that

>> an actual trusted member of the

community which is amazing.

>> Yeah.

So, um can I ask you just lastly to go

back to cooking again? Uh because food

is great. I'm a fan of it. Um so you

talked about giving these demonstrations

to people. Um,

what is in your view the hardest thing

to either convince people is going to

work using induction cooking or the

perhaps the most challenging to to cook?

I mean, is there something that you were

like, "Oh, I really need to think about

how I'm going to actually do this using

the induction cooktop."

>> Yeah. Look, it's um it's in terms of

safety. Okay, I I go to we don't have a

fire, so you're not going to burn

yourself. It's less hot, so you'll feel

cooler in the kitchen.

You don't have the air pollution, so

you're breathing in clean air. And and

it's position cooking is that when you

turn the temperature on, you know

exactly the temperature you're going to

get.

You can't actually burn something and

leave it on. Once you It's so easy to

clean

um because um it's just a plain surface

um and not unlike a gas cooktop where

it's so complicated to clean.

And really going back to the air

pollution stuff, like even when you have

the gas cooktop turned off, it could

still be leaking methane, carbon

monoxide benzines formaldahhide all

these things that are really unsafe to

breathe. And so like you can't talk

about an induction cooktop distant from

cooking. So I've had people I've had a

group of my um Indian friends over

because you know it's it's really and I

was taught how to do proper curries and

dahs. So I learned something and they

got to use my induction cooktop. So my

friends really understand now it's just

affording to transition and to

transition. So, I've never had really

anyone say anything negative when I'm

actually doing the cooking cuz they can

see it happening.

>> Yeah. So, cooking and I do cook noya uh

food. So, my family is from Malaysia and

Malaysia had the Chinese migrating the

so of the so Malays weren't the original

people there but Malays actually have

their distinct cuisine. China had their

distinct cuisine and South India because

there's a lot of South Indians there and

so the fusion and I should say the

British colonized for a little while

too. That's why you end up with baked

beans and some of these traditional

dishes. So the so

>> I did not know.

>> Yeah.

And so and like one of the distinct um

dishes we cook is called chaku. So chaka

is like a Malaysian pat thai and you

traditionally see it cooked on um on a

gas cooktop. So a lot of my

demonstrations are doing charcoal to

show that you can get a hot enough um

cook top with um and cooking charcoal

and you do get the sizzle and the smoke

but without the flame

>> and the outcome is just as good. So you

like if people can see and taste what

you're doing.

>> Yeah.

>> That's the best way for them to

understand.

>> How many different migrant communities

do you think you've been able to

>> demonstrate to and then how do and how

do we make 50 more doctors?

Look, it's it's actually really

effective having a doctor doing the

cooking because when I talk about the

health impacts that that can't like

because I' I tell people before I start

cooking, I've been a doctor for 36

years.

Okay. And so it brings a degree of

credibility there too.

>> And so they can ask me about any of the

health things, but because I've done

cooking for so long, they can ask me

about the cooking things as well.

>> Kim, what do you listen to when you're

not doing all of your advocacy work?

just you know what what other podcasts

or media do you think people could watch

if they're if they're induction curious

or climate curious?

>> Um uh look I sometimes what I listen to

is to get me away from stuff. So is not

might not be helpful but instead so the

Iono Johnson podcast with uh what if we

could what what we did this right what

we could get this right is really really

good cuz it's the tone of it is really

good and probably you're going to put

this in the link notes when the podcast

goes out

>> this Dr. And Justin actually is a friend

of my wife, purely coincidental, uh, and

she has an extraordinary podcast and a

couple of books and she's trying to

demonstrate that the world will in fact

be better when we fix climate change. We

won't we won't live it's not going to be

a a world of less. It'll be a world of

more and better.

>> I mean, finding nature is another one.

Um but that is also covers a lot of

stuff in climate and um uh and also

social justice and that's an Australian

podcast in New South Wales. the one with

Christina Figgeras.

>> Christina is fabulous though,

>> optimism.

>> For those who don't know, Christina

Figgeras was actually head of the IPCC

and uh the the United Nations climate

change group and

I think her brother curiously was

president of Costa Rica for a little

while uh and re and reinitiated a whole

bunch of the national parks there and is

credited with reviving a lot of the

nature there. So they're a pretty

incredible family.

>> Yeah. And so all my other podcasts are

completely not in the climate space

because sometimes you need to listen to

something different.

>> Outrage and optimism if you want to say

it.

>> Oh, that's right. Outrage and optimism.

And was with Tom Riverik. Yeah. So

that's that's actually a really good

podcast in terms of um the topics they

cover. Um because you know if you

basically

you know one of my friends used to say

whenever she was angry she'd plant a

tree. So if you go to her house is a

complete forest with trees next to each

other.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> So it's it's you know in this climate

space it's really important to have

something that you do outside and in

nature. And that's why gardening is so

important for me. and I go bushw

walking, which I'm doing this coming

Thursday. Every second week, I spend one

day doing bushw walking with two of my

retired friends. And they're they're not

in the climate space. So, we talk about

everything else,

>> but they're starting to understand the

climate space because I do talk about it

a little bit as well. And I've started

cycling outside, which I've had three

falls, but I'm still persisting. And so

just to just to do something more

outside.

>> Yeah.

>> Because I think you know people are so

inside with their devices that I

>> Speedway doesn't count Fiona. I know

it's outside.

>> It's technically it's outdoors.

>> It's really like getting out like

especially with all my patients cuz we

know there's so much evidence for

walking in nature now. Um and there is a

Japanese term for it. I've forgotten.

There's only one place to forest.

>> Forest bathing.

>> Forest bathing. There's one forest

that's dedicated to bathing in Victoria,

but we don't have one in New South

Wales.

>> Um, so it's it's been shown to help with

mental health, help reduce blood

pressure. Um, and other cardiovascular

outcomes have been actually studies on

actually walking in nature.

>> Well, I'm going to propose to Premier

Mints that we rename the Blue Mountains

the Dr. Lou Forest Bathing National

Reserve.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, that's a good idea.

Thank you so much, Dr. Lou, Kim. Uh,

it's been extraordinary. We could talk

to you for probably five or six hours on

so many topics.

>> It was amazing. Thank you.

>> Super generous with your time. Um, and

any last words for the audience?

>> Advocate for what you care about.

>> I love it. Thank you so much.

>> The Shameless Plug is a podcast

supported by Rewiring Australia and

Rewiring America. hosted by me, Saw

Griffith, and my mate, Fiona Whitelaw.

Our producers are Kathleen Burrows and

Caitlyn Chang. You can read more about

today's guest in my latest book, Plugin,

The Electrification Handbook, available

in all good bookstores. Rewiring

Australia and Rewiring America: Advocate

for Climate Action You can do today in

your home and your community. Let's

electrify everything.