The Soul of a Leader: Finding Your Path to Fulfillment | Dr. Margaret Benefiel | Talks at Google

Thank you all. It's really an honor to be here. Shell just gave me a tour

be here. Shell just gave me a tour around Google and I've heard about Google's culture for years and it was great to get the full tour and really experience it. And so I'm thrilled to be

experience it. And so I'm thrilled to be here. It's not the typical engineering

here. It's not the typical engineering culture. My husband went to MIT and

culture. My husband went to MIT and taught there and uh so I got a lot of the MIT experience and being here is great. It's really a different kind of

great. It's really a different kind of engineering culture. So, um I want to

engineering culture. So, um I want to start by inviting you each to offer one word that represents your hope for our time together today. Uh just so I can

get a sense of what you're looking for and uh so you can get a sense of each other and maybe say your name first. Uh

maybe you all know each other. Uh but at least I'll get to say your name. So your

name and one word that represents your hope for our time together. And uh so I'll start. Margaret Benfield.

I'll start. Margaret Benfield.

connection. And let's go this way.

Great. Thank you. I want to start by telling you a story from my own life of a time when I lost my soul at work and I

was in my dream job. At least I thought it was my dream job at first. It it was when I first arrived there. This was

about 15 years ago. And it was an academic position. I had wonderful

academic position. I had wonderful colleagues. I loved working with them.

colleagues. I loved working with them.

We had great teamwork, great synergy, great creativity.

And then things started to change. There

was a change in leadership and there were financial pressures. There was a merger and slowly the values that had

drawn me there started to get eroded and there were pressures to work uh faster and harder to do more with less. Um with

the financial pressures, we were expected to uh do more things than we'd done before and we weren't able to get that time to be apart and dream with

each other and be creative and have that synergy that we'd had before. When we

did eventually get time together, we were so uh exhausted that it was hard to to get into that mode of thinking creatively and and really supporting

each other.

And uh so over time I found myself getting my soul eroded, my values eroded

and I started to burn out then too. And

I found myself as I um you know I looked at the leadership and I said look what's happening here and and look what the leadership is doing and they're not uh

compassionate anymore. They're not

compassionate anymore. They're not resilient. they're not creative. And

resilient. they're not creative. And

then I looked in the mirror and I said, "Whoa, that's me. I'm not compassionate anymore. I'm not I'm not creative. I

anymore. I'm not I'm not creative. I

don't want to be who I am." And so I took a step back and said, "Wait a minute. I need to do something about

minute. I need to do something about this. This was such a great place. I was

this. This was such a great place. I was

working up to my capacity. I was being the person I wanted to be and now I'm not." And so I'll come back to that

not." And so I'll come back to that story and tell you more at the end. tell

you what I did about that.

Before going on, I'd like to offer a couple of definitions.

When I talk about soul, I use a definition that's a broad definition, a person or an organization's deepest core or values. So that includes for some

or values. So that includes for some people that is connected with their faith. For other people it's not. Uh so

faith. For other people it's not. Uh so

some people might have their souls nurtured through nature or through music or through connection with other people.

Others might find their souls nurtured through their religion. Um or it might be a combination. And so soul is a broad definition for me. And then when I talk

about leadership, welcome, come on in.

Um I think of a leader as one who influences others. And we all have

influences others. And we all have spheres of influence at home, at work, uh in uh our neighborhoods. And so think

about your spheres of influence and how you in influence people in all those different places. And this is about how

different places. And this is about how you use that influence. So everybody

here is a leader in different spheres.

And this is about bringing your soul, bringing your whole self, your deepest values to your leadership.

So with those definitions in mind, um I'd like to tell you a story uh that happened here in Boston about almost 20 years ago now.

In the early 90s, the employees from the failed Coolage Bank were called together by the retail team, the retail

leadership team of the Waywright Bank.

The Koolage Bank had failed and they were um they in one year they went through uh being owned by four different institutions

and they those employees had been through a lot. They were really shell shocked by the time they got to Waynewright bank. They first there had

Waynewright bank. They first there had been um layoffs, downsizing um then the bank failed altogether. Then

they were owned by the FDIC.

Uh then they were owned by another bank and then another bank and then Wayne.

And when this leadership team uh from Waywright Bank for the retail division called them together, they came uh in fear and trembling, burned out,

thinking, "Oh, we're probably going to be fired." And what happened instead was

be fired." And what happened instead was that uh Steve Young and Lil Sanchez, the two leaders of the retail team, said,

"We want you to imagine the ideal bank.

We have an opportunity here to create something totally new, and we want to ask you to create it with us." So, what would the ideal bank be? Well, so they

said, "Whoa, what's going on here?" And

they were totally surprised. And what

was going on was that um Bob Glassman, who was the co-chair and co-founder of Waywright Bank, had said a few years

before, I want to start a bank that focuses on addressing the values vacuum at the core of the banking industry. So

he was concerned about that 20 years ago and it's something that we're seeing the results of now in a big way.

And he said, you know, banking is um it used to be focused more on values, on building partnerships with the community, on uh knowing the people in the community, knowing who you're

lending to, knowing uh who's coming to you to um to borrow and to uh lend you money and and banks are growing and it's getting to be a whole different world in

banking. I want to address that values

banking. I want to address that values vacuum. So he had gone to his board and

vacuum. So he had gone to his board and said this is what I want to do. And uh

they did a few experiments. They did an experiment with Pine Street in working with homeless people. They volunteered

um people who worked at Wayright Bank volunteered there. They also lent money

volunteered there. They also lent money to Pine Street in um they they did some things with food banks. Um they did a lot of different things in the

community. and and then he went to the

community. and and then he went to the board and said,"I want to make this central, not just little experiments. I

want to really make this central to what we're doing in Boston." And so, uh, some people on the board, some people's eyes lit up and said, "Yes, let's go for it."

Other people's eyes glazed over and they weren't so interested. Uh, but there were enough people who said, "Let's go for it." That they did. And some people

for it." That they did. And some people eventually dropped off the board and others came on. And so by the time it got to a few years later and these employees from uh the failed Koolage

Bank were gathered together, Bob Glassman had hired this retail team to develop a bank that would uh focus on values. And so these people got together

values. And so these people got together and you can imagine they'd been through these layoffs. They'd had uh four

these layoffs. They'd had uh four different uh banks owning them. They

were uh they were burned out, a lot of them. And they they said, "Well, yeah,

them. And they they said, "Well, yeah, we have a lot of experience about what doesn't work." And so when Steve Young

doesn't work." And so when Steve Young and Will Sanchez said, "Well, what do you want?" They said, "Well, we want a

you want?" They said, "Well, we want a bank that treats us with respect. We

want to be valued as employees." At

Wayright Bank, they believe that if they treat their employees well, the employees will in turn treat their customers well. And so that was one of

customers well. And so that was one of the first um basic guidelines that was put into place. And so uh they went on and said okay these are some other

things that we think are important and they came up with a vision for what the bank could be. And so then over time as

they focused on um both how they treated people internally and how they worked in the community they came up with a plan

for being the market leader in lending to nonprofits in the Boston area. Bob

Glassman said, "I want to lend to nonprofits." The people in the bank had

nonprofits." The people in the bank had had relationships with various um nonprofits like the Pine Street in and

other places. And um and people warned

other places. And um and people warned them against it and said, you know, it's not good business to lend to nonprofits.

If you're lending to homeless shelters and food banks, you're not going to get very good rate of return. And they said, well, we want to try it. So, they did.

And now um about 20 years later, they have made $700 million in loans to these nonprofits with zero losses. So that's

in sharp contrast to banks that have focused on lending just to businesses.

And that's right. Exactly. Yep. Yep. And so

that's right. Exactly. Yep. Yep. And so

that part of their portfolio has proven to be really strong. And Waywright Bank now is um doing very well while other banks around it are collapsing. So there

about 12 branches of the Waywright Bank in Boston and the one right here. And uh

so um so that's a little snippet about Wayright Bank. There's a lot more about

Wayright Bank. There's a lot more about it in the book. So now I'd like to invite you to reflect on if you think

about giving yourself a soul score.

Um, what do I mean by that? Well, in the story I told you about myself, when I was in that situation where I was losing my soul, my soul score was probably

about a two. Um, in the story I just told you about Wayright Bank, when those employees came together from the failed Koolage Bank, their soul score was

probably about a two or three when they first came. And then over time as they

first came. And then over time as they built their dream bank uh they they were thriving. They were being the people

thriving. They were being the people they wanted to be. So just think about it for a minute and I invite you to think about not only your own soul score, what you'd give yourself, but

your team and your organization as a whole.

So think about it.

And now I'd like to invite you to turn to somebody near you and uh tell the person as much as you're comfortable saying about uh those three. And you

might just want to say one or you might want to say, "Oh, I don't want to tell any of them, but it was interesting to reflect on." Whatever you're comfortable

reflect on." Whatever you're comfortable saying.

Well, I'd like to talk now a little bit about a company that has tried to avoid layoffs and has done pretty well at that. Realel Precision Manufacturing.

that. Realel Precision Manufacturing.

It's a manufacturer of hinges and clutches in the Twin Cities in Minnesota. And it was started in 1970 by

Minnesota. And it was started in 1970 by three men who left 3M because they wanted to have more time for their families and because they wanted to bring their souls to work, bring their

values to work. And they came up with four guiding principles that they said they would follow in all of their decision-making in the company. And the

first one was we're committed to doing what is right even when it does not seem to be profitable, expedient, or conventional. That's pretty unusual for

conventional. That's pretty unusual for a company, right? And for a manufacturing company, manufacture of hinges and clutches. And so they found

that uh they were tested in this commitment. They said, you know, what

commitment. They said, you know, what does it mean to do what is right? Well,

it's not always clear, but they said, "We found that it's easier to determine what is right than to determine what will be profitable." When we try to decide what's going to be profitable, we

have a lot of trouble. And when we focus on what is the right thing to do, we often get to an answer more quickly and it turns out to be the right answer. So,

this commitment was tested early on.

They have a strong commitment to their employees just like Google does. and and

in 1974 it became clear that the income for 75 wouldn't support the 74 payroll.

And so the obvious thing was to do layoffs, but they said, you know, we're committed to our co-workers and uh to doing what is right. And so we want to

um take this into serious consideration and and they have a discernment process they use to really uh look deeply at decisions when they have something big

that they're up against. And so they they took this to their discernment process and what came out of it surprised them. They came back to their

surprised them. They came back to their employees, the three co-owners, and said, "We want to propose that instead of laying people off, everyone takes a

pay cut, and we ourselves will take a much larger cut." And people were very grateful and were willing to go along with it. And so, and morale stayed high

with it. And so, and morale stayed high despite the pay cuts, largely because the co-owners were taking the biggest hit. And so, after about six months,

hit. And so, after about six months, they were able to restore everybody to full pay. and and keep everybody on.

full pay. and and keep everybody on.

Now, they have gone through this a couple more times in their history and uh the the latest um cycle was in the

recession uh small recession compared to this one of 2001 and they had to do pay cuts again and they were graduated pay cuts. So, people at the bottom didn't

cuts. So, people at the bottom didn't take any cut and the co-CEOs took the biggest cut and then they were able to restore people to full pay within the

year.

the co-CEO at the time, Bob Carlson, said, "Oh, and their CEO pay is modest to begin with. They have a commitment to um their pay being just six times that

of the uh of workers who've been there 5 years or more and just 10 times that of the lowest paid worker. So that's in contrast to, you know, many American

companies where can easily be a hundred times uh or more.

and and Bob Carlson uh one of the co-CEOs at the time said, "You know, it just doesn't sit right with me when I read in a paper about a CEO who got a huge bonus, and I know it's because they

laid people off, and that's how they got such a big profit, and then the CEO got rewarded for that uh for that layoff."

And so now they have had to do layoffs in in December. they did have to lay off a small number of people and they're they're hoping they won't have to do

anymore. So this is a particularly

anymore. So this is a particularly difficult time for them and uh so they don't say they'll never do layoffs, but they do say we'll take profits down to zero first and then we'll do the

graduated pay cuts. And then when they do have to do layoffs, they do it they try to do it in a way that you are describing that's more respectful. Gives

people uh time, good severance package and um and treating them uh you know not treating them with respect not just saying okay you have to clean out your desk immediately and they'll be exported

out by security. That happens.

So again, that's just a snippet about rail precision manufacturing and what they do. And um then I want to tell you

they do. And um then I want to tell you a little bit about Landre's Bicycles.

Landre's Bicycles is based here in Boston and um in the mid90s they were in

trouble. They they were facing a really

trouble. They they were facing a really tough financial situation. They had

opened a store. They have five stores in the Boston area. They had opened a store later than expected and they had missed the season. So, as you know, in Boston,

the season. So, as you know, in Boston, the bicycling season isn't all year. And

so, they had opened their store just as winter was setting in. And of course, they got no customers then. And so, they were paying rent and they were paying

employees. And um they uh they were

employees. And um they uh they were really in trouble financially. in the

bank that had their loan, found out about it, not Wayright Bank, and uh called them in and said, "We're going to pull your loan, and we advise you to file for bankruptcy."

Well, Tom Henry, who was a managing director at the time and still is, um, did not want to file for bankruptcy and he came to a group that he's part of

called Seeing Things Whole, which is a group of business leaders in the Boston area who get together quarterly and they take turns uh, sharing challenges they're facing in their businesses and

help each other bring their values and their whole selves to these challenges.

So he brought this situation to the seeing things whole roundt and said okay this is the situation I don't want to file for bankruptcy uh what can I do? So the group listened

to him and wrestled with this situation with him and finally one person said Tom you are really feeling burdened by this situation. It's a it's a big weight on

situation. It's a it's a big weight on your shoulders. What if instead of

your shoulders. What if instead of viewing your work as a burden you viewed it as gift right now? Tom said, "Well,"

and that question stuck with him and he went home and and uh he started to think about that and he said, "Yes, my work is a gift." And he went back to the company

a gift." And he went back to the company and started talking to people about their work being gift. And he said, "I started beating that drum. I started

singing that song." He said to people, "Our work is is good work." He said there's no better work in the world than our work. Uh there's other good work,

our work. Uh there's other good work, yes, but there's no better work in the world. Landre's Bicycles has a vision of

world. Landre's Bicycles has a vision of bicycling uh for a better world. They

they've worked on uh rails to trails projects and getting bicycles on the tea and they've uh lobbied for bike paths in Boston. And so for health, for the

Boston. And so for health, for the environment, they um they're strong advocates and lobbyists for for bicycling.

So uh as he talked about this and and other people caught the vision of uh seeing their work as gift, they started to have a different attitude.

And uh they also then started to talk about how they could see each other as gift. And so for example, they spent

gift. And so for example, they spent time at their annual retreat going around the circle and each person said to the person on his or her right, "These are things I appreciate about

you." and then these are things I

you." and then these are things I appreciate about you. And um they like that so much that they said, "Wow, you know, I don't usually hear these things.

Um let's do this more often." And so then in their annual review for their performance review, they do a 360°ree review. So everybody hears from a person

review. So everybody hears from a person above him or her and from peers and from supervises.

And they said, "Well, let's start with appreciation and start by saying, "These are things I appreciate about you." So

they did and um that went over really well and now they do it regularly in their performance reviews and people say um uh I really look forward to my

performance review. It's the best time

performance review. It's the best time of year and so because of this different approach now that they have where they start with appreciation. So what

happened with their situation uh with the bank? the bank did indeed pull their

the bank? the bank did indeed pull their loan and so they needed $40,000 right away which for a small company uh in the

mid 90s was a lot of money and because there was this shift in the atmosphere once they started focusing on what they appreciated about each other uh Tom got

a new vision for the company and felt inspired to go out and ask his friends for loans now he didn't have rich friends so he went out and asked people

uh and said, "We've lost our $40,000 loan. We need money right away or we're

loan. We need money right away or we're going to go into bankruptcy. Would you

lend us money?" One friend who was an artist lent her um entire life savings, which was $5,000.

Another friend uh had just inherited $5,000 um from the death of his parents. And so

he lent that. and uh other people made small loans and they did come up with the the $40,000.

And then they were able during that winter season when they weren't getting business to use the time for training and focusing on this um this gratitude

culture shifting the atmosphere. And so

when the season came, by the time the season came around again, um they had a lot of energy and vision and were able to do really well and they did pay the people back. So they're going strong

people back. So they're going strong now. So with that story in mind, I would

now. So with that story in mind, I would like to invite you to reflect on your own practices of gratitude.

And I call this handout the expansive cycle of gratitude. We all know vicious cycles uh in our families, at work, um lots of places. And so I think of this

as the expansive cycle, opposite of a vicious cycle. And so you can see here

vicious cycle. And so you can see here um that when I think about what happened with Tom Henry and Landre's bicycles,

first Tom made a habit of thanking the employees regularly and then in the group uh the leadership team started practicing gratitude,

thanking each other and then what happened inwardly as they did that Tom found his heart expanded, developed a thankful heart.

and in the group the atmosphere shifted the c a culture of gratitude was created. So I'd like to invite you to

created. So I'd like to invite you to think about this for yourself and you can think about it here at Google or you can think about it

somewhere else in your family or in your neighborhood and think about what you're doing in each of those quadrants already or what

you might do. And um if anybody needs something to write with, I I brought some.

Oh, sure. Sorry.

I have quite a few more here. Hi,

welcome.

I just invited people to uh think about the expansive cycle of gratitude.

I just told the story of a business that was um on the brink of ruin and then got turned around by practicing gratitude.

And so um so this is an invitation for you to think about uh any think about either your life here at Google or at home or anywhere else and how you're

practicing gratitude or how you might.

This is a simple chart you can use from time to time to take stock of what's going on in yourself and in your group here or elsewhere. And it doesn't have

to be just gratitude. You can do this chart for other things that um that make a difference in the culture. Like you

could put in compassion or humor or fun um and and so it's a quick way to say what's going on in each of these quadrants and are there things I can do

that can make a difference.

So I'd like to finally talk about enlivening the soul in your organization if you think it needs to be enlivened.

And just four uh basic things to remember. First, you are empowered. No

remember. First, you are empowered. No

matter where you are in the organization, you have a sphere of influence. And so remember that you do

influence. And so remember that you do have that power. It's about influencing others. You're influencing others all

others. You're influencing others all the time. And so it's about choosing

the time. And so it's about choosing what you want that influence to be.

Second, listen for soul in the people around you. Pride in workmanship and joy

around you. Pride in workmanship and joy in work are manifestations of soulful leadership and provide an opening to celebrate the human spirit. So there are

many different ways you can see that soulfulness.

Third, don't go out alone. Soulful

leadership transcends cultures and traditions. So reach across the

traditions. So reach across the differences while holding on to what makes you strong. We need partners in this whole journey of soulful leadership

and especially in difficult economic time. And finally, patience in peril.

time. And finally, patience in peril.

Difficult times are the very times that it's most important to be patient and faithful like Wayright Bank hanging in there over the years or real precision

manufacturing during economic downturns.

Those are the times when those relationships get tested and grow deeper and values

get stronger. So hang on to uh the

get stronger. So hang on to uh the values during the times of of peril.

So now I'd like to invite you to make a commitment to yourself or to your team.

Um you can think back to your soul score, your own your teams, your organization that you gave yourself at the beginning. Then think about the

the beginning. Then think about the gratitude chart. Then think about those

gratitude chart. Then think about those four points I just talked about for enlivening the soul in your organization.

And uh you don't have to share this with anybody if you don't want to. It might

be a commitment to uh thank a co-worker every day or it might be a commitment to uh do whatever helps you be grounded in

your values. you know, maybe just uh

your values. you know, maybe just uh going over to the window and breathing and and um and remembering what's important to you before you go into a

challenging meeting or uh anything, whatever helps you be your best self.

So, so I invite you again to take just a few moments and think about what commitment you'd like to make to yourself or to a teammate,

to the organization in general. If you

want to write it down, feel free to.

Welcome.

I'll give you the chart.

[Laughter] This was a chart that I just invited everybody to fill out after I told a story. And um I have a pen.

story. And um I have a pen.

Well uh you might be able to you'll see the summary up there. Okay. You don't

need to hand it in. It's just for your own reflection. And uh now I just

own reflection. And uh now I just invited people to make a commitment based on that chart and other things they've heard to strengthen their own

souls or the soul of the organization.

And we're going to talk about that.

So, anything you want to say about your commitment? Again, no pressure.

commitment? Again, no pressure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Good question. Sometimes it's a matter of picking which battles to fight, you know, like um if there's something that's so important to you

that you feel like you really have to stand up for it no matter what. And and

sometimes I've seen in some in fact you'll see some of the stories in the book uh sometimes other people respond to that. There'll be other people who

to that. There'll be other people who say wow that person's standing up for something I will too and it can have a contagious effect. Now other times uh

contagious effect. Now other times uh that's not the case and and you end up being the scapegoat and so it's always a

matter of discerning okay is this a time when I stand up for something and yeah

[Laughter] uh one story I'll tell you about that Barb McIntyre who's a nurse at a hospital system in the twin cities in

Minnesota called Health East. Um when

she started over 30 years ago and she said, "I want to bring my soul to work.

I want to be my best self. I want to see people as their best selves, my patients, my fellow nurses. I'm going to look for the best in everybody." And and

she um she thought about it in terms of her faith and and for how she could see God in people. And she started practicing that. And over time she got

practicing that. And over time she got promoted to head nurse because the way she was treating people was having such a positive impact. And then about five

years ago the CEO called her into his office and said, "Barb I want to know what is the secret of your success?" He

said, "Your teams have um higher morale than other teams, less turnover, there's less waste. Um there is a great spirit

less waste. Um there is a great spirit of camaraderie. what do you do? And she

of camaraderie. what do you do? And she

said, "Well, um, these are the things that I'm committed to." She said, "I, um, I try to build my teams around people's gifts. I look for what their

people's gifts. I look for what their gifts are, and then I I say, okay, how can these gifts complement each other and let people do what they're best at and support each other in that?" Um, she

said, "Every year I send people uh birthday cards and say, these are things you contributed to the team this year.

Thank you for all all of these things."

She said, "I try to um to express a specific appreciation to everybody um on the team at least once a week, more often if I can. I send out holiday cards

every year and say, "These are the contributions you've made. Thank you for what you've done." And she went on and on the list of things and and the CEO said, "Well, this is great." He said,

"You're really exhibiting our motto, a passion for caring and service. Would

you be willing to train other people?"

and he said, 'I don't mean just other nurses. I mean the physicians and people

nurses. I mean the physicians and people in the business office. And she said, 'Well, yeah, if people will listen. And

so now she's been training people all throughout the system. So that's one example of somebody who lived it and it was contagious and it made a difference in the whole organization. And sometimes

that'll happen. Now other times it won't. you get shut down and uh so that

won't. you get shut down and uh so that too is you know sometimes you you try as much as you can and then you say my soul

is dying here I just I can't keep doing this and you move to a different department or different organization my own story that I started with I'll tell

you the end of it now um when my when my soul was dying um I realized I needed to take a break from that place and I took

a leave of absence and um and fortunately I was able to do that and got some good support and got people who I got a support uh team people who met

with me four times during that leave of absence and helped me look at what I really wanted to do with my life and what my deepest values were and could I do it in that place with the changes

that had come and I came to the conclusion that I wanted to try and so I went back And I had some time of renewal that helped a lot. You know, I was able

to get away and renew my soul and really be in touch with what was most important to me. And I went back in with some

to me. And I went back in with some supports in place and with um you know, not not as much self-righteousness as I had had about well, I know how it should

all be and and the rest of you don't.

and um and more resilience and creativity and I was able to um connect with people and find and survive and hope and I think

contribute something to the organization. So good question. Thank

organization. So good question. Thank

you.

Anybody else?

It just it depends so much on the company and and the values and the culture and and sometimes in a smaller company, yes, but sometimes in a bigger

company, you can have a big impact by just some small actions and especially if it's calling people back to an original vision. Um like Southwest

original vision. Um like Southwest Airlines is one of the companies I have studied and and um I interviewed uh people there and they have a culture of

uh do you know anything about their culture? Well, uh they they say uh if we

culture? Well, uh they they say uh if we treat our employees well, they will in turn treat our customers well, just as some of the other places I've talked

about. And uh they hire they say we hire

about. And uh they hire they say we hire for attitude and train for skills. And

so we look for people who share our values. They say it's much easier, we

values. They say it's much easier, we found, to get people with the attitude that fits who we are and then train them for the skills than to uh hire for the

skills and try to train them for the attitude. And of course, they want

attitude. And of course, they want people with skills, you know, they want pilots who can fly the planes, right?

But but they say um there are a lot of people to choose from and we hire people with the attitude that fits. And so then they support people uh give them

everything they need to be their best selves. Now within a company of 32,000

selves. Now within a company of 32,000 people, yeah, people lose that vision and and there are times when people aren't their best selves. And so it's

but it's a culture where in the training they say um we invite you to call people back to be their best selves. And and I found that in a company like that where

you've got that vision uh even in a big company there's hope you know you can say now look this is this is who we say we are and this was the original vision

and and I think you've got some of that at Google to go on and to say how can we be this even even in these difficult economic times. Southwest Airlines, by

economic times. Southwest Airlines, by the way, has um uh their stock is now worth more than all the other US

airlines combined. And um and you know,

airlines combined. And um and you know, they're they're not that big as far as an airline goes. Uh but um their their

model has proven very profitable. And

after 9/11, other airlines had to lay people off and they didn't have to do any layoffs because they came into it strong. And also um people were calling

strong. And also um people were calling and saying things like um I want to cancel my ticket cuz I'm afraid to fly, but you can keep the money. You've been

there for me and I want to be there for you. And also the employees were giving

you. And also the employees were giving back money to the company and the uh senior management had to set a limit on how much people could give back because they were afraid they were going to give

back too much money on their paychecks.

So um so this kind of culture focusing on values and people um really can prove profitable and you know they're they

have they're facing all the things that all the other airlines are facing now too and they may have to do layoffs but um but for the most part they've been able to keep their culture strong and

and do and they've done better economically than the other airlines.

So, so it's, you know, there's no one answer, but um I I do think you do have that that original vision here that you can call people back to and um and so

that's that's one point of leverage you've got here.

One more question. Okay.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Right. Thank you. A great note to end on.

Okay. Welcome

Okay. Welcome