These 13 income streams made me $374,000 last month

I found the and I went from like 70 80k per month to 500k in like three months.

If you see an opportunity, you should like really really go in hard and nothing else should probably matter.

This is Jackie Shu, the SEO legend. Last

month, he made $374,000 with 13 income streams and he's here today to talk about his overnight success that took 11 years. He is the

perfect example of why you should never give up because even when everything collapsed.

>> Our, revenue, went, from, 240k, per, month, 40% margins to like 100k a month, 5 to 10% margins. It was brutal.

10% margins. It was brutal.

>> He, kept, going., And, while, everyone, else in SEO got destroyed by Google updates he adapted.

>> Tons, of, people, were, getting, into, the content site industry. All of them, I would say 99% of them are like completely destroyed right now. In this

conversation, Jackie breaks down how to rank number one in 10 days in Chad GPT his exact Reddit playbook to promote any SAS, how diversification saved him when

others lost everything, and his 90-day plan to go from zero to $10,000 a month.

>> There's, still, a, lot, of, money, to, be, made in SEO. I'll give a couple of examples.

in SEO. I'll give a couple of examples.

>> So,, Jackie,, you, said, I, might, be, the perfect example of why you should never give up. Then you shared a post where

give up. Then you shared a post where you go from 2014 to 2025 going from $450 a month to $225,000

a month in 25. What was the biggest mental shift that happened between Jackie at $450 a month to Jackie now a

day?

>> Oh, wow., Um, yeah,, I, think, a, lot, changed in between. Um

in between. Um I think the most important part for me was like environment shift. So that was probably the biggest catalyst for me. So

that's when I moved from Vancouver to Germany, Berlin actually. Um I think getting out of your comfort zone really really helps especially with growth and

not just like monetization growth. I

think it's like a lot of personal growth as well. That I probably think that's

as well. That I probably think that's the biggest one. We often talk about environment and when I think about moving somewhere business-wise it would

be like San Francisco or maybe I don't know like South Asia. Why Berlin?

I found my internship there. It's just

um back way back when I think 10 years ago Berlin was like a bit of a startup hub less so now. um kind of dead or dying uh unlucky but yeah it was back

then there was just a lot of jobs so decided to move there see what happens and yeah the rest is history.

>> Mhm., So, let's, deep, dive, in, uh, into, your journey because you shared all your step from 2014 to 2025 and I would like the person who actually watched this video

to understand what you went through in 2014. You started in Dexi. What did it

2014. You started in Dexi. What did it look like back in the day? Because now

it's something big. But when you started, what was the MVP on this service?

>> Yeah., Um,, it, it, was, always, an, agency.

Um, but my first client was pretty much my buddy was working at Yellow Pages which is like a directory site. I'm not

sure, if, you, [clears throat] >> know, that., Um,, but, he's, like,, "Hey,, you you've been reading a lot of posts from Black Hat World. Can't you do a bit of

SEO on the side?" I was like, "Yeah, I probably could figure it out." So, he started getting me clients via Craigslist

and yeah, that buddy of mine went on to be like an amazing entrepreneur and that was the start of Indexy as like an agency. So

agency. So >> so, you, were, alone >> just, getting, clients, on, Craigslist >> and, you, were, alone, at, the, beginning, like you didn't have a lot of employee I guess.

>> Yeah., Yeah., everything., It, was, just, like a oneman show pretty much.

>> And, then, it, went, from, like, 450, to, 10k, in 2017 to 55k a month in 2018. So it's

like four years later. You say that you felt invisible at that point. What

happened?

Oh, I think if you're in your early 20s in Berlin, it's with 50K a month, you're like on top of

the world. I I I did all the partying

the world. I I I did all the partying all the drugs. Um yeah, it was it was an intense time in my life. I thought I was

like on top of the world. Um pretty much every during that time, every business venturer like moonmed uh of mine. So

yeah, I felt unstoppable, but yeah, definitely got clapped a couple times throughout the years.

>> When, you, say, clapped,, I, like, that, she used clapped every time. What is the definition for you of clapped?

>> I, think, uh, getting, clapped, is, more, like uh it's like getting hit down a notch or getting humbled a bit, you know? Because

when you're flying high, it's like uh I don't know the story of Icarus when you fly too close to the sun and uh yeah getting clapped down a bit is sometimes good for you. But yeah, just getting penalized, getting knocked down.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah., And, it's, something, that, happened often with SEO and Google update. You

get clapped a lot.

>> Oh,, I, I, Yeah,, I, think, I'm, probably, one of the people who gets clapped the most actually. And it's just like across all

actually. And it's just like across all my businesses and revenue. Yeah.

You got I think the worst for you was when you lost 15 website, right?

>> Yeah., Yeah., And, it, was, like, um, I, would say like a manual penalty. It was a manual and personal penalty. So a lot of like people who were building in public

at the time also got hit at the same time. It was uh pretty brutal actually.

time. It was uh pretty brutal actually.

I remember the exact moment where when it happened. I was in like the middle of

it happened. I was in like the middle of Australia, barely had reception, and I was just getting the emails that you like manual penalty, man, manual penalty, manual penalty. It's pretty

intense.

>> When, was, it?

>> I, think, 2020 or early 2024.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh,, so, it, was, pretty, late, because, Yeah, I remember it happened to a friend of mine, but it was the medic update in uh what was it 2018. That was pretty brutal for a lot of people, but I didn't hear

about like 20 24. But yeah

>> that's, hard, for, sure.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah,, that, was, brutal.

>> In, 2020,, you, did, your, first, six, figure exit. How did it feel for you?

exit. How did it feel for you?

>> Um,, I'll, be, honest,, that, that, one, did not feel good. Um, I don't know if people know the behind thescenes story but we had like a drop shipping store

that did all the way up to 240K with super healthy margins at like 40%.

If people want to search it, it's like you can search up Overlow Jackie Chow and you'll find the story. Um, it was like a drop shipping app at the time.

Um, so we did super well for like a year and a half. We got kind of lazy and

a half. We got kind of lazy and complacent. We kept drop shipping versus

complacent. We kept drop shipping versus private labeling and pivoting and yeah, we we pretty much got clapped by Facebook um Facebook feedback plus

iOS. I think the iOS update back then

iOS. I think the iOS update back then kind of destroyed us. So our revenue went from 240k per month, 40% margins to

like 100k a month, like 5 to 10% margins. It was brutal. So then we ended

margins. It was brutal. So then we ended up selling the business to private equity for like 150k and we only got like 100k of that because they didn't earn out and then

they declared bankruptcy afterwards. It

was awful. Um yeah it was a yeah brutal exit.

>> What, is, your, experience, with, this, kind of amount of exit like you know just low six figure is it worth it for you?

>> Yeah., Yeah, 100%., Um,, I, think, I've, had three four, four, of these, low, figure, six, figure exits. Um

exits. Um the most amount probably 300k I believe or 350. Um, yeah, it was a content site at the time. Sold it to

Thrasio, which was like an FBA aggregator. It was like, that one was an

aggregator. It was like, that one was an insane flip. I think I did like a

insane flip. I think I did like a two-month hold, meaning I purchased the site, held it for two for like 150k held it for two months, and then sold it

on to like a larger player. And uh yeah also thought I was king of the world at the time, but uh yeah, a lot of these.

>> Ah,, that's, amazing., And, then, in, 2021, you reached six figure a month. What

happened that year? Because you went from like 44,000 a month to 200,000 a month.

Yeah. Um I believe that was CO time right? CO time. Um CO was an insane time

right? CO time. Um CO was an insane time in my life. I think everyone was stuck indoors. So I I think I quite literally

indoors. So I I think I quite literally worked 16 hours a day every day for like a year and a half or whenever whenever the lockdowns were in Europe. I don't know

if it's a year or a year and a half. It

was a like an extended amount of time. I

did everything during that time like day trading, day trading stocks, crypto flipped watches um, ecom was flying. I have like a

private label company called Far and Away. Um, SEO business was doing well

Away. Um, SEO business was doing well everything was like doing well cuz everyone was stuck indoors. Um, so that was yeah, co was a

indoors. Um, so that was yeah, co was a good very lucky time cuz like if I was stuck at home anyways, might as well do something productive. It's funny because

something productive. It's funny because we often say that you have to focus on one thing and now that you diversified that year you did insane amount of

money. Do you think the luck came from

money. Do you think the luck came from only COVID or it would you can do that again?

>> I, could, probably, do, it, again., Um, I, could probably do it again. It's

Yeah, I think I'm a huge fan of diversification actually cuz especially in my industries which is like I consider high-risisk high volatility

industries like SEO um affiliate.

Yeah. Like if you don't take money off the table just look at my peers in SEO.

I don't know if you were around during that co time, but like tons of people were getting into the content content site industry. All of them, I would say

site industry. All of them, I would say 99% of them are like completely destroyed right now. They would have they're

right now. They would have they're they're probably down 90% in terms of like uh enterprise value. And that's

just all because they didn't take money off the table. They didn't do these the exits. Several of them I've suggested

exits. Several of them I've suggested personally to sell and they just like diamond hands and just got clapped. It's

but that's just life, right?

>> I, feel, that, I, started, um, affiliate, SEO in 2016 got clapped multiple time and I actually exit uh this year like the last

big website I had I did a six figure exit. I think a lot of people got tired

exit. I think a lot of people got tired of that and that's one of the question I want to ask you like how can you stay in SEO right now like after everything that

happened >> there's, still, a, lot, of, money, to, be, made in SEO I I'll give a couple give a couple of examples there's several industries where AI mode tragedy won't

touch they won't even like give you an answer so like it's just the high-risisk not safe for work um morally ly wrong

industries, they they'll never give you an answer. So these are the industries

an answer. So these are the industries where SEO thrives. So like casino, CBD I don't know, drugs, uh adults, you can

go nuts. The the money is still like I

go nuts. The the money is still like I would say 90% there still. Whereas like

industries where in the con in the consumer space like best protein powder that's going to get like rocked in the it's already rocked but um yeah there's still a lot of money

to be made in SEO and then now it's just pivoting right it's just it's just shifting to LLMs now >> yeah, we'll, talk, about, that, later, let's uh finish your journey but I'm pretty

interested about these two topic that you said >> um, so, you, started, daily, video, in, 2023

with YouTube. How long did it take for

with YouTube. How long did it take for you to get traction at that time?

Well, I think my first video did like a 100red views. Um, which is it's all

100red views. Um, which is it's all right, but I already had like a bit of a following on X. So, I wouldn't say like

if I said, "Oh, yeah, I got traction right away." it wouldn't be accurate for

right away." it wouldn't be accurate for people with without an audience on X already. I think I had 20K followers at

already. I think I had 20K followers at the time. Um, so it's not all from just

the time. Um, so it's not all from just organic or Yeah. Yeah. And what was the the purpose to start YouTube? Because

you say that it became one of the best um marketing channel for you.

>> Oh, yeah,, 100%.

>> Yeah., My, reason, was, um, I, think, at, the time when I started doing the daily videos the other people in the space were

producing like very highly produced very highly edited quick cuts um those type of videos. So, I decided to take it like

of videos. So, I decided to take it like way slower. Um, not very edited. Like

way slower. Um, not very edited. Like

Sam Sulle videos, you know, I don't know if you know the bodybuilder, all he does is like he just leaves the video on for like two hours and then just you just go with him on the journey. So, yeah

that's that's what I that's what I did.

And um my execution is pretty bad, but I think I'm uh consistent if anything, cuz I'm pretty sure if any other creators did a daily video for two, three years

they they'd have better success than me in terms of absolute subscriber growth.

Um yeah. And

how was Jackie when you actually recorded your first video versus now? Did you improve a lot the way you talk, the way you present

yourself?

Did I improve a lot? I was definitely nervous. Uh I remember I was in uh

nervous. Uh I remember I was in uh Slovakia, I believe. I still remember it cuz I was like couldn't sleep the night before. I was like, "All right, I have

before. I was like, "All right, I have to do this video tomorrow." Um yeah, it was all right, though. I think um way easier. It takes a a lot less time

way easier. It takes a a lot less time to prep for episodes. Probably takes

like 20 minutes now. I think the first episode took like 2 hours to like think about what I want to say without a script. So 2025 we almost finished. You

script. So 2025 we almost finished. You

are doing an average of 221,000 a month and you just shared that last month you made $374,000.

So, in November 2025, I wanted to go through all these steps to for people to understand what it takes to actually post a discount of a month of money on

X. And I think it's really important

X. And I think it's really important because we often talk about overnight success on YouTube. We often share like the the easy win, the shortcut, but I

think it's important to show what it takes. like it's 11 years of going

takes. like it's 11 years of going through multiple business to get where you are now. So, do you think for you it's important to try a lot of things

before actually finding what works for you?

>> I, think, so., Um

I think it's mostly because of my industry though. Um, I think a lot of

industry though. Um, I think a lot of people if you have high conviction in your industry in terms of longevity, I think it's okay to have like a like

fewer swings.

But I think if you just graft out my revenue from the last 3 to four years or so, it's extremely volatile. Um, I went from I don't know

volatile. Um, I went from I don't know if, you, s saw, this,, but, um,, I, went, from 500K to like

5K 500K revenue per month to about like 200, maybe even like 150 or 180 in the in the span of like 3 months. I don't

think people understand what kind of actions you need to take when you take a I think what is that like a 60% haircut on revenue, which is unbelievable. like

you have to reorganize your team. Um you

have to run projections, you have to it's a lot of cost cutting and cost cutting is painful. Like I had to break out my credit card statements and like all right this needs to go, this needs

to go. Um yeah, it's unbelievably

to go. Um yeah, it's unbelievably painful. I wouldn't wish on anybody. But

painful. I wouldn't wish on anybody. But

uh that's why I'm so diversified nowadays.

>> And, what, made, you, like, keep, going through all this year? Because like when you get this kind of heat maybe sometimes you want to give up. You

probably went through a lot of Google updates that killed website or made you doubted about any skills that you had.

What kept you going at that moment?

>> Oh,, I, mean, I, think, that's, probably, my like A+ skill is probably to like um yeah, consistency, right? I just keep

going. doesn't matter. But that that

going. doesn't matter. But that that comes from like I don't know if you've played video games, but I played a lot of Runescape growing up. There's no way like if if you're a Runescape player, I

think I I believe there's a super strong correlation with like Runescape players and entrepreneurs. I swear to God there

and entrepreneurs. I swear to God there is. Cuz it's like you're like eating

is. Cuz it's like you're like eating glass every day for no reason. It's

pretty much like for fun.

>> So, what, is, the, thing, that, you, got, from playing that game?

Oh, it's probably just like grinding.

Um, yeah, like the whole aspect of grinding.

Like if if you're willing to cut a video game tree for like six hours a day in your when you're 12 you're you're going to go on to do great

things, you know.

>> Okay., So,, maybe, that's, the, key, to successes. I see a lot of pattern like

successes. I see a lot of pattern like that. Like people who are like really

that. Like people who are like really good gamer usually are really good at online businesses because it's quite the same thing like you just have to push forward on the screen and nothing

happened for a while until you get like some success that looks like dollar coins on your stripe account.

>> Yeah,, exactly., It's, just, um, instead instead of in-game currency is just US dollars, you know, on Stripe.

So now you diversified a lot like if I see your post that you made like you have what one to three like probably 11 um source of income and a lot of them

now are SAS.

Um what was the switch between well what you did before and getting into SAS and

how did you actually succeed so fast?

Um, the pivot comes because of my daily videos. Um, I I knew there was like an

videos. Um, I I knew there was like an issue with the local SEO software industry because I was creating videos about local SEO for like a year straight

and I knew there was some holes in the market meaning like there's definitely a demand for some some some businesses.

So with the emergence of cursor it was like the perfect storm where cursor came out and my business partner Peter, I don't know if you know him

Peter Wang on ex uh we decided to launch something similar uh and just popped off and then now we we're just launching SAS companies non-stop uh running the same

playbook and it's I mean it's working well but I think what if you're taking a look at November revenue in particular.

It's worth noting majority like a lot of the revenue here didn't didn't exist like a year ago.

This is like new revenue that that software line item all came within the last 12 months. And this so that was me

pivoting from affiliate. And um

I think if I didn't have that I' I'd be in like a rougher place in terms of revenue.

>> You, said, you, replicate, a, playbook, that works. What is the playbook?

works. What is the playbook?

>> The, playbook, is >> Yeah,, I, think, it's, uh, you, enter you you have really in-depth knowledge about an industry. let's say local SEO

or Reddit marketing or um getting mentioned on LLMs. If you have a really strong like deep understanding of something, then you'll understand like what issues you're

having. And if you solve that with

having. And if you solve that with software, other mo like 90% of the time other people will have that issue as well. Especially if you talk about those

well. Especially if you talk about those issues, then you can just market to your viewers. Um, and

viewers. Um, and yeah, it's uh it's very important to be in the B2B space. Let's just say that.

And on the when you're if you're posting on YouTube I think also something important is that you are in the B2B space, but you are selling something that you could sell

yourself as a service because you did it before. Do you think this helped you to

before. Do you think this helped you to be able to sell the service 101 and then replicate that with a SAS?

>> Yeah,, a, thousand%., Um,, mostly, because, I speak the language of agency owners right? Because I'm an agency owner

right? Because I'm an agency owner myself. So, yeah, my my average

myself. So, yeah, my my average customer, like I I just checked LTV on Indexy, which is like I sell back links and and stuff as well. Um, the LTV is

like $1,000.

Is that crazy? I checked it the other day. I like couldn't believe it. I was

day. I like couldn't believe it. I was

like, "Okay, yeah, that's probably why I'm able to make this amount of money through like these productized services is because LTV of agency owners are

skyhigh, massive switching costs.

There's no way they're switching after um they come in and they're the easiest customers to like keep happy. It's like

you just like dealing with one person versus 50 you know?"

you know?" >> Yeah,, it, makes, sense., I, think, like you're not the first one to say it like everyone say go into B2B but then I

think as I say it's probably pretty hard if you don't have any knowledge that you can already sell to a company and then start with a B2B SAS and I think for you

that was like probably easier because of that but you built this knowledge since 2014 and probably before so it makes sense.

>> Yeah,, that's, true., That's, true., What

what is the biggest difference for you between um a SAS and an agency like to manage it?

>> Um, a, agency, is, like pretty painful to manage. Um but it's one, of the, easiest, businesses, to, start and run probably. So, um

SAS has way more issues in terms of it's like a neverending feature list, if that makes sense. You

always have like the biggest feature list and you're always pushing your team every which way and then they they just have to prioritize based off that.

Whereas agency, you can just tell your team to do something and it'll get done.

But um margins at a software company is ob obviously infinitely better than an

agency. So there's like pros and cons.

agency. So there's like pros and cons.

And the last thing about your revenue is like you see Binance only fun um mediaine fine fuel for people who don't know like can you explain a little bit

more where this money come from like of course fine fuel is not your tool uh mediaine is not your tool just to explain a little bit more. Yeah. So, um

going through the list from the highest line item, Binance, it's just Binance affiliate. And, um, how I did it was in

affiliate. And, um, how I did it was in 2017 before that beautiful gold, uh golden bull run, I was able to outrank

Binance for Binance as a keyword. So, we

for like three months, we outranked them, and it's because they didn't have any title tags on their homepage. So

it's just ridiculous. Um, yeah. So, it's

just like a small arbitrage that is still paying dividends till this day.

So, I'm I'm not gonna hold my breath for it to like keep on going forever, but it's still good. In terms of uh Only Fans, it's just uh I send traffic Only

Fans traffic to like a network and they work with agencies and that's it. So, we

rank for Only Fans keywords on Google. I

don't like talking about that because every time I talk about it, there's so many uh so many new competitors joining but it's okay. I don't I don't mind. Um

because it's still in the still in the revenue update. Anyways, Mediaine is

revenue update. Anyways, Mediaine is just a display network. So, what we do is um back when like during the all-time high in terms of revenue, my main revenue source was something called like

partnership SEO, which is where you like partner up with legacy media brands like let's say like an old newspaper and then you write affiliate articles on their blog and then we split 50/50

revenue. So, Mediavine revenue right now

revenue. So, Mediavine revenue right now is like a residual from that. So

meaning we still have partnerships that generate revenue. So that's that's where

generate revenue. So that's that's where it's from. And Fan Fuel is just like an

it's from. And Fan Fuel is just like an affiliate network.

>> Yeah.

>> I, don't, know, why, supporting, it., It's, so little. Yeah.

little. Yeah.

>> I, feel, like, for, me, it's, like, the, one, who stays the most. I still have revenue from Fine Fuel and I don't understand where it come from. But yeah, it's always a good one.

>> Yeah., Yeah., Residuals, are, the, best.

>> If, you, had, to, keep, only, one, out, of, all this list, what would it be?

one uh where am I at in terms of u net worth? Am I like starting today or like

worth? Am I like starting today or like in the future?

>> No,, right, now, like, if, you, could, keep, one Yeah, I I would explain more the question like probably make a balance of like the easiest to take care of um the

one with like the biggest uh upside for example. So like if you keep one

example. So like if you keep one business that you could like push through the next few years maybe >> uh, probably

advise I'm pretty bullish on advice.

It's like a just like a community that is by far the easiest I would say because it's just a place where I genuinely want to chat with people.

>> Um, [clears throat] I don't know if you've ever did you ran a community, right?

>> Yeah,, I, had, a, I, had, a, course., Uh,, so, I did affiliate SEO like you did for years and in 2021 actually I launched a course >> and, I, agree, with, you, that's, the, best one,

>> dude., It's, by, far, the, best, one, and, every

>> dude., It's, by, far, the, best, one, and, every day I'm just chatting with other people who are like scheming like me. So you

know how like I posted on X about oh yeah I got cited in 24 hours by charge.

I was already like I was talking with other people there like we're like coming up with ideas on how to game stuff. Um, it's just a lot of

stuff. Um, it's just a lot of like-minded people who come together and it's just feels amazing because like they speak your language. But in

everyday life, I I'd never meet people like this because it's not just a normal software founder. It's not like a normal

software founder. It's not like a normal DTOC entrepreneur like who it's it's like a weird subsection of marketers.

Yeah. And it's it's it's hard to find them. It's hard to find them.

them. It's hard to find them.

>> Amazing., And, well, on, the, same, question if I had to start today like which one should I pick in this list?

>> No, start, one.

>> Yeah.

>> And, where, are, you, at, in, life?, Like, I think net worth and age is like the most important. Those are the two parameters

important. Those are the two parameters I always ask.

>> So, let's, say, like, I'm, just, on, Twitter., I

have no really I I have no skills. I'm

just starting. I have no network. I

don't know anyone. And I just need to get to 10K a month.

>> Oh,, then, agency, 100%., That's, like, you could, probably, do, it., I, sw, like like Yeah agency.

>> Knowing, what, I, know,, I, could, probably get there pretty quick. Yeah. 10K per

month. You just got to do like couple like a couple high ticket sales. Like I

just do LLM agency right there.

So I will shortcut to one of the question I wanted to ask you later but you said 100% of people who stick to anything in 90 days will make 10k a month. So you say if you start from zero

month. So you say if you start from zero today you will do an urgency. What would

be the 90 days of locking?

>> I, Oh, yeah., Yeah., Massive, lock, in., Um

cold email every day, cold call every day. Like this is without fail. All

day. Like this is without fail. All

right. No one's going to do this. So

it's got to be like somebody who's super hungry. So, cold call every day, cold

hungry. So, cold call every day, cold email every day, two two shorts. So

meaning two Tik Toks a day, two Tik Toks, two Instagram reels, and one long form video, and you have to post on X every single day. You're telling me in

90 days you're not going to make any money? Like, impossible. Impossible.

money? Like, impossible. Impossible.

Unless the the only big caveat is um if you're based in like like a third world country that that that's rough. That's rough. Um mostly

that's rough. That's rough. Um mostly

because like accented if you're cold calling people in the US, they're like hella racist. There's they're like no

hella racist. There's they're like no way they're going to go closed. But um

yeah, if you're in Canada, 100% you could do it 100%. You just need an offer.

>> Yeah., What, would, be, the, offer?, like, what kind of offer? High ticket, low ticket >> high, ticket,, high, ticket,, but, no-brainer

offer. Um, meaning like zero risk. So

offer. Um, meaning like zero risk. So

in the beginning, I'd do performance-based, something like performance-based. If you don't hit

performance-based. If you don't hit these parameters, um, you don't pay stuff like that. And then you just try to do it, execute it yourself, like legit work at McDonald's while you're so

you can pay for the tools. Um, and it wouldn't even take much. You probably

probably pay for the tools with like one shift a week on at McDonald's. So

yeah, it's got it's got to be high ticket though. It's got to be high ticket.

though. It's got to be high ticket.

>> Okay., So,, you, will, do, that, for, 90, days.

And how long would it take to make 10K a month? You think

month? You think >> from, zero, or, from, like, my, knowledge?, You

think?

>> Uh,, from, zero?, from, zero, probably, be like I think majority of people

average average IQ I'd say in 90 days brute brute force you could probably get to like mid four figures you could definitely get to 10k a month if you're

like know what you're doing if you're a bit smarter you know but the average average person can probably get to could probably replace their full-time salary actually Yeah >> at least

>> amazing., Well,, I, think, with, all, this

>> amazing., Well,, I, think, with, all, this first part, you have everything you need to start making money online.

>> And, now,, let's, go, to, something, that, I know a lot of people want to know is like your SEO tips for funders. You got

seated in 24 hours on Chad GPT and you rank number one in 10 days.

If I have a SAS um let's say a B2B SAS and I want to rank number one on any LLM let's say CH

GPT what is the Swiss step that I have to follow in 2026.

So if if you have a software business what I would do is you probably have software um people software founder friends right? Just get a bunch of indie hackers

right? Just get a bunch of indie hackers together, literally like 20 of you, and then you all write listicles, meaning like best xyz keywords. So if I'm, this

wouldn't work in VPN because it's too niche, but let's just use VPN as an example. So if I have a VPN company, I

example. So if I have a VPN company, I have 19 other founders in other niches.

If they can write best VPN 2026 on their blog and post it, put me at number one that's like a really really positive

signal to the LMS because it's like if you consistently show up at number one, it's a positive signal and you just

need to be cited. And once you're consistently at number one, then the Lons are like, "All right, this guy's obviously number one." So

the goal is 2026 is the year of the listical. It's uh it's all you have to

listical. It's uh it's all you have to do.

>> Does, it, matter, the, the, position, of, the listical? Like for example, if it's like

listical? Like for example, if it's like 10 article that are on page five of Google, will it work with the LLM ranking or do I have to be on page one

of Google? So if we're talking about AI

of Google? So if we're talking about AI mode on Google, you need you you you probably need some rankings because they they use that um your Google ranking

algo for that. Whereas for chat GBT, it is very much the contrary. There's sites

there's a majority of the sites have zero traffic. So if people want to check

zero traffic. So if people want to check it out, they should all take a look at they did a recent study of like 35k

URLs, cited URLs. Um, I think it was like 50% of them have zero traffic. The

domains have zero traffic or something like that. It's it's ridiculous. Um, so

like that. It's it's ridiculous. Um, so

chatbt still hasn't figured it out.

Google hasn't really figured it out either. Um

this is probably like the golden gold golden years of uh LM citations right now. It's uh very easy to game.

now. It's uh very easy to game.

>> It, looks, like, it., And, do, you, think, it's only blog or should I also do YouTube video like best VPN and publish like 10

different on different channel uh the best VPN and put mine on the top one >> that, would, probably, work, for, YouTube, or

sorry for Google like for Gemini for AI mode. Um

mode. Um I don't know about Chargebt. Actually

ChargeBT is citing Reddit a lot. So, I'd

say get on Reddit. I think as of right now, Reddit is the easiest to game in terms of everything we just mentioned.

And it also helps with LM. So, people

should just look into having one account and then just shilling your own services on there.

>> Now,, what, will, you, do, like, create, bust or unsell to bust?

comment comment and buy up votes. Up

votes are so cheap right now. Like

it's unbelievable. Um you can change the entire trajectory of a post just from up votes because people on Reddit just like

are a bit of like they're like more followers. So let's say you have a post

followers. So let's say you have a post on Reddit, you post on some unknown subreddit, you start getting some hate.

If you start buying up votes for it, for some reason the narrative changes and then it'll become eventually it'll become more more and more positive because there's up votes on it. It's

it's it's weird.

>> That's, crazy., And, can, you, give, me, um like um a price like how much does it cost for example to buy let's say 10 10 votes?

>> 10, of, probably, like, 10, cents., We, we, sell them at like 1 cent. One cent an ovote.

Yeah.

>> So, where, can, I, buy, it?

Oh. Um, trackings. Trackings. It's like

uh, it's one of our businesses, but you there's lots of service providers out there. I I doubt people will find as

there. I I doubt people will find as cheap as ours because, uh, it's just our our accounts, right? So

>> this, is, Yeah,, this, is, crazy, actually because I know a lot of people like not even talking about SEO, but just trying to promote their SAS on Reddit. And I

think buying a votes will be a a big win. If I let's say I launch SAS

win. If I let's say I launch SAS tomorrow, >> I, want, to, publish, in, um, one, of, the subreddit for that.

>> If, I, buy, up, vote,, do, you, think, it, will change the directory straight away the direction?

>> I, think, so., Um, but, I, think, the, SOP should go like find uh search your target keyword on Google.

For example, best XYZ, best local rank tracker. 90% of the time red is there.

tracker. 90% of the time red is there.

you find that uh go into that Reddit post, comment your brand, wait two weeks, buy up votes, and then you're there. You're done. You'll start getting

there. You're done. You'll start getting like traffic immediately. Um if that Reddit post is locked, which is very common, what you do is you go into the

same same subreddit and then you ask the question, hey, what's the best local rank tracker in 2026?

And then you like set your parameters.

You don't even shill your own stuff yet.

Then you buy like freaking 500 up votes and it becomes like the most viral post on Reddit and then it'll probably hit the front page of Reddit and you'll probably replace that Reddit post that

was previously ranking with your own and then you go in and edit it. Edit. It's

like, "Hey, edit. Actually, I found Local Rank as the best local ranking software." Stuff like that.

software." Stuff like that.

>> Man,, this, is, gold., It's, amazing., Do, you have any other tips like that outside of Reddit? maybe

Reddit? maybe >> um, outside, Reddit.

Yeah, I think if you Okay, it Google rankings right now is very simple because there's a couple things that are going on right now. Google uses Chrome data.

So, with that knowledge, you should be able to go like absolutely nuts already.

So, if you have a post that's ranking anywhere from like positions 5 to 20 and then you just blast a ton of traffic like real human traffic. So, if you buy

if if I'm the richest person on earth, I would buy like 50k hits on that page from Facebook

and that will that will be enough to rank that page. And a lot of people don't know that and it's purely because of uh Google Chrome signals and yeah

there's like a lot of manipulation going on in that space right now.

>> Yeah., They, often, say, that, like, um, also the power of a backlink to your page is often the traffic that this page brings to your page like it helps like there is like the power of the backlink plus the

traffic that you send. But this is more constant. If you buy traffic to this

constant. If you buy traffic to this page and you stop paying for the traffic, will your page tank straight away or will it stays

with this?

>> Depends, on, like, the, the, the, ex, um, the click-through rate on your page. So

let's say you're like position three and it's because you sent a lot of traffic to that page for months and then you pull the traffic overnight. However

people are still clicking on that site naturally, it probably won't tank because there's like enough natural signals to keep it up there. Whereas

um, if your site is super trash and people click in and they're like, "A this, is the, scamiest, product, on, earth."

And then they pogo stick back into the search results, then you yeah, you're probably you're probably cooked.

>> Okay,, good, to, know., Now,, let's, switch, to another topic. You're an expert into

another topic. You're an expert into that as well. And I told you before this conversation that I was talking to a friend and he was like, "Yeah, I want to

know more about local SEO. Like if I want to rank um in a specific location in 2026, like what should I do?"

>> Um, if, we're, speaking, purely, Google, Maps, majority is like user signals nowadays.

So, for example the biggest if someone can solve this if you're someone in your audience can solve this, I would love to work on them

with this. Okay? If you're able to get a

with this. Okay? If you're able to get a bunch of people in your city to manually like legitimately, not bots, okay? Legit

legitimately walk or drive over to your Google location on a daily basis. You

could be number one in no time. So

think about user signals like that. Um

think about user signals like Google reviews. These are probably the top two.

reviews. These are probably the top two.

And then number three would be like citations, meaning getting listed on directories, uh, which is pretty much like a like a link building strategy.

So, number one, I'd say would be user signals like Google reviews and driving directions. Number two would

driving directions. Number two would probably be like citations. And then everything else will

citations. And then everything else will be like three four five six.

>> So, on, the, first, two >> on, the, first, be, number, one.

>> Mhm.

>> Um, do, I, have, to, beat, my, competitor, with like the number of people who drive to my place? That's kind of the game. Like

my place? That's kind of the game. Like

let's say I have like this butcher uh that have like thousand customers who come every day. If my uh butcher store

like butchery I don't know the name >> gets, a,00, visits, a, day, then, I, will, rank higher. That's what you mean?

higher. That's what you mean?

>> I, think, it's, like, a, combination, of, uh different different signals and different ones have different waitings.

Um I think driving direction is one of them. Clickthrough rate is also another.

them. Clickthrough rate is also another.

So it's these are just all user signals right? and they have all different rate

right? and they have all different rate uh ratings. But I think if you are able

uh ratings. But I think if you are able to one for one if two identical listings total number of reviews is the same. I

think it if it's like one has 150 people walking to it every day and the other one has 50 then 150 will rank higher.

That's only if like all else is consistent.

>> Yeah., Yeah., I, think, the, only, uh, idea, I have for this uh driving people will be to order a lot of Huber every single day.

>> Yeah., So, that, would, fully, work., Yeah., Um

let me give you an idea of like what competitors are what other people are doing in the industry. They're

partnering up with like mobile a uh app companies like gaming apps like the world's largest gaming apps. Think like

Candy Crush levels. Okay. And then they would have users in Vancouver, right?

So, they're like, "Oh, do you want like a thousand in-game currency? All you

have to do is walk to index down the street from you and I'll give you a thousand uh in-game currency." So

that's what people are doing. They're

doing it with like running apps. They're

doing it with like gaming apps. I just I don't have the technical knowhow to like crack something like this. But, um if anyone can figure this out easy, like

this is like eight figure business. If

you can make people in your area take a certain action use using like mobile a app company uh mobile apps. Yeah. You you it's like

mobile apps. Yeah. You you it's like eight figures easily. That's maybe what the Pokemon app did actually. You

remember when you had to go >> Yeah,, maybe, that's, what, that, was, the business model behind it and we just don't know.

>> Yeah.

>> Crazy., Uh, I, know, you, gave, also, amazing tips not long ago about uh CRO for SAS and you talk about VSSL. I was talking to a few founder

that don't really know what is a VSSL and what is the benefits to have one on your page. Um can you just talk a little

your page. Um can you just talk a little bit more about it and what are the numbers from a VSSL?

>> So, I, think, VSSLs, I, don't, know, why, but specifically work towards like North American people.

>> Mhm., I, [clears throat], think, it's, just like a very um might be like a cultural thing because I don't even think Canadian companies do that. It's like

very American centric as well. So, but

that's our main business Americans right? So, we AB tested it with with and

right? So, we AB tested it with with and without VSSL. And what VSSL is is just

without VSSL. And what VSSL is is just me sitting in front of here selling you my product and showing you my product and what it does and how it can like

benefit you. That's it. Um

benefit you. That's it. Um

2 minutes, that's all you need. I

thought it was the scamiest thing. I

thought this was like some ClickFunnels stuff, VSSL. Like, who who would be

stuff, VSSL. Like, who who would be watching that? But

watching that? But having it helps. So, we have it. I'm not

a fan either. I hate it.

>> What, does, it, look, like?, Like,, is, it, like one page with one video and one click to action or is it only on your landing page?

Yeah, for me it's more like I put it not in the center because I think if it's just a VSSL is kind of gross. Like VSSL call to action. It's

gross. Like VSSL call to action. It's

more like headline and then like you kind of see the the top of a VSSL and then people can see it if they want to.

Um, but the thing is I think the stats behind a VSSL is crazy. It's like if they if they view like 90% of the VSSL then

their conversion rate it goes up to like 60% or something like that. Um I have to pull the numbers but it's like something stupid. So in that VSSL you have to be

stupid. So in that VSSL you have to be like the sleaziest salesman.

>> Any, tips, on, that?, Like, the, framework, you use like I don't know who end points.

I just I I just use charge GBT to write my script.

>> I, don't, even, think, anymore., Everything

just goes through charge GBT.

>> Um, any, big, mistake, you, see, like, SAS founder or app funer do on their homepage that

stop them to convert >> SAS, less, so, um because everyone's copying each other right? In terms of like SAS landing

right? In terms of like SAS landing pages, they they're pretty good. Um

there's a reason why certain pages convert well. It's because

it's just it's just it's just the it just works. Um, so I'd just copy someone

just works. Um, so I'd just copy someone who's doing a lot of revenue and just go from there. I Oh, the one person I

from there. I Oh, the one person I wouldn't copy is Peter Levels cuz I don't think his is perfectly optimized but people purchase it anyways because he's like he's like a god, right? He's

like the indie hacker god, so people will, purchase, it, no matter, what., Um,, so that's the only person's landing page I wouldn't copy.

>> I, have, a, statue, of, him, in, my, uh, bedroom actually.

>> Actually,, yeah,, I, I, pray, to, him, every night before I go to sleep.

>> We, all, do, actually.

>> Um,, you, talk, about, something, and, I'm really interested by that topic. Uh

niche website got clapped. So, you

pivoted. Um, it happened a lot to me. It

happened a lot to a lot of friends. And

I think you're right in the fact that kazino and all this kind of topic that chip or any will never go to are probably the one who work the best

because that's the one where I see my friend on Instagram buying new cars and living in crazy places. So it probably works. What are the new thing to do if I

works. What are the new thing to do if I have like SEO and affiliate skills? How

can I make money in 2026?

Whoa. SEO and affiliate skills. Um, it's

got probably if you haven't already, it's got to be something with AI. So, a lot of people have moved on to AI. Um, but affiliate

skills. People are still making money

skills. People are still making money from Parasite SEO. It's less so like your own

your own um sites nowadays with that skill set.

I don't know. Actually

I'd probably say like stick to SEO and just go into the sketchy niches. But um

>> What, do, you, think, about, YouTube affiliates?

>> YouTube, affiliate, sucks., I, think, um >> um Oh, I don't know if you've been seeing these. Oh god. Okay, these are

these. Oh god. Okay, these are definitely ex SEO people, but like AI avatar videos like my god, these guys are 100% ex SEO

people cuz like it'll be some super sad story or like I'm a Dubai uh like a Dubai tycoon's like mistress and like here are the health supplements he makes

me take and then it's like I don't know some some drop shipping brand. I saw

that in the train there was this woman listening to this video really really loud and it was this fake AI story about like oh my cuisine got a heart attack

and you know he was hopeless he didn't know what to do and then he took this supplement and it was probably omega-3 or something like that.

>> Yeah.

>> And, I, listened, to, that, and, it's, probably like targeting boomer because it probably works a lot but yeah >> crazy.

>> Yeah,, it, works., It, works., Um,, I, don't know if people have done that already but I've already instructed my parents on the dangers of AI >> and, like, not, believing, these, stuff.

>> I, had, a, call, I, had, a, call, with, them, and I said like if I call you one day even with my face but I'm weird, ask me question, you know that only you know because

>> I'm, sure, it, will, happen., So, yeah,, they have to be careful with that.

>> Yeah,, 100%., I, asked, on, um, Twitter um what question I should ask you and few question were how do you manage all of that because you're

you have a lot of different stream of revenue like how do you do that how many people work for you

um directly work for me probably 13 people now I'm up like one or two from the year before so That's how I do

it. I delegate

it. I delegate pretty well, I'd say. Um

anytime I have to do anything more than once, I probably just delegate it.

That's it.

>> And, it's, not, it's, not, that, hard, really.

>> Everything.

>> You, say, that, because, you're, probably, 10 years in, but what is the biggest thing that you learn about delegating?

Oh like the things you delegate will never like the tasks you delegate they'll they'll never be executed up to your standards.

So you have to be okay with like subpar work and you just need to be okay with it. It'll never be up to up to code.

it. It'll never be up to up to code.

Never. So it just needs to be good enough, you know.

That's a good one. And how long do you work nowadays with all these things that you have to take care of?

>> Depends., I, think, some, days, I, think, like for example yesterday I was pretty hung over. I probably work like 3 hours

over. I probably work like 3 hours whereas today I was up since like 7 um a.m. It's

like 5:00 p.m. now.

Yeah. Really depends depends on how I feel that day if I'm motivated if there's like any opportunities. And my

opportunities are measured like on a daily basis. It's it's crazy. So like I

daily basis. It's it's crazy. So like I launch new offers on on a weekly basis for people who already watch me. They

they know >> that's, crazy., Yeah., You, maintain, like quite a good cadency with like YouTube video.

>> Yeah.

>> Which, is, something, big.

>> Yeah., I, think, um, with, YouTube, one, one thing I wanted to say is like my average views isn't crazy. It's like a thousand views., All right., People, would, scuff, at

views., All right., People, would, scuff, at that. But if you think about what that

that. But if you think about what that means, if the same thousand people come back to your video every single day, you know how many like conference rooms that fills >> Mhm.

>> and, they're, all, in, the, US., They're, not like in third world countries. These are

people with buying power and most of them are agency owners. Okay? If you

sell them any product, this is this is one and done. Um if you're able to, of course, >> I, totally, agree., Like, let's, say, let's compare um you and Pats from starter

story. I feel like you know if I go to

story. I feel like you know if I go to starter story to see other people's stories and pretty short get my eat and like just get the information while people who come from you for you they

come for you because they will get this long video with you taking your creatine at the beginning like you know they are here for you. There is no hook there is

no like big thing that keep them in the video. So, I think this is way more

video. So, I think this is way more valuable than uh just going viral.

>> Yeah., Yeah,, I, think, so,, too., Thanks,

Oie. But, shout outs to Pat Pat Walls.

>> Yeah., Well,, he's, doing, a, great, job, for sure. Um, what is the So, you went from

sure. Um, what is the So, you went from $450 a month to like Yeah. almost

400,000 now. What is the biggest [ __ ] about entrepreneurship that people say and it's not true?

>> Oh,, that's, like, passive, income,, I'd, say.

Yeah, >> that's, nothing, positive, about, this., Um,

yeah, it's pretty painful. It's like

I think it's uh I think Peter also Peter levels mentions this like you have to know when to sprint like really hard. So

if there's an opportunity Yeah., So,, um, I, don't, know if, I, can, plug,

Yeah., So,, um, I, don't, know if, I, can, plug, but like if you go to if you see my revenue chart from the last I've been graphing it for the last 3 years.

There's a time when when I was like pretty suffering. It was like 75K per

pretty suffering. It was like 75K per month that was down from a high of like 200K and then I found the the the partnership

SEO and I went from like 70 80k per month to 500 500K in like three months.

So, it's like if you see an opportunity you should like really really go in hard and nothing else should probably matter in that in during that time frame.

Yeah, I agree on that. It's a really good one. And the last question

good one. And the last question how do you feel now about, you know making this amount of money? Like

what is your feeling every day? Do you

feel like you made it? Do you feel like it's enough? Um, do you feel that you

it's enough? Um, do you feel that you can relax?

>> Uh,, yes., Yes., But, then I don't know about where um you're from but in Vancouver, houses are like $3 million starting. I don't know if I can

million starting. I don't know if I can fully relax. You know what I mean? Um

fully relax. You know what I mean? Um

>> yeah.

But yeah, I think uh to the to the listeners, just know that number is gross revenue. So my net net at the end of the day is probably

like 40%.

And then my takehome after taxes is less than that. So while it's still amazing

than that. So while it's still amazing and it's still like more than 99% of people in Canada, it's like it's not as great as it makes it sound. So, I I've

been doing this for 10 years and I' my net worth's like only like 10 million.

It's not like oh I'm I'm I'm like gonna go buy a yacht or something, you know?

>> That's, still, huge., I, feel, like >> Yeah.

>> You, easily, get, used, to, the, level, you, are in and I think that's what you have now but like what you accomplish is still pretty huge.

>> Yeah., Yeah., Yeah., Yeah., That's, true., But

um I I think I do a pretty good job of that not like burning the cash. So yeah

we we live pretty humbly in terms of uh our tax bracket.

>> Do, you, have, any, advice, to someone who watched this video want to start or right now already started for like few years but still struggling is

not at your at your level. Do you have anything to do to say?

Yeah, I think um start posting videos. Doesn't matter

what kind. Like just just do it. Video

is like the way. My buddy who I met online told me to do it three years ago.

It by far is the biggest lever because when I launched my software company Local Rank, we did 20K out the gate right? 90% of that revenue came from

right? 90% of that revenue came from YouTube. 90%. You know, our launch video

YouTube. 90%. You know, our launch video did like 1K views. My launch tweet on X did like 50k views, but 10 only 10% of

the revenue came from that.

That's just all I'm going to say. You

can you can you can you can [ __ ] talk all you want on X, but I'll I'll take the 1K views on YouTube any day.

>> That's, crazy., 90%

>> of, But, yeah,, it's, like, a, very, healthy chunk. And we uh we attributed via

chunk. And we uh we attributed via coupon codes. So it's like I'm I'm not

coupon codes. So it's like I'm I'm not even making it up.

>> Yeah., Well,, Jackie,, thank [clears throat], you, very, much, for, your time.

>> Yeah., I, took, easy.