This guy sold his company to Unilever for $1.2B after just 3 years

zero to over a billion dollars in 32 months. It's maniacal.

months. It's maniacal.

We're quite literally just getting started.

Where do you think is that gap to really jump from average or good to great?

If you want to have the greatest odds of success, it's by creating a new format.

New formats win.

You obviously spotted one really great opportunity. I'm curious what other

opportunity. I'm curious what other opportunity you spot.

I think there's an idea that no one else is going to be able to run at that is a $10 billion business idea.

You should just say it now and we'll bleep it out.

We'll talk about that. I think that's the biggest opportunity for founders.

What are the inputs necessary to get to 100 million in revenue for an e-com brand in three years?

Here, here's what I'll say.

So, here's here's three things I'd love for you to deliver. One, I want to know the origin story. Like, how the hell did you have the idea and why did you have the confidence in the idea? We're going

to go there. two is you sent us a thing about your marketing funnel which is like you know what does worldclass marketing look like in this scenario and then the last part I want to riff with you brainstorm on like where to from

here you obviously spotted one really great opportunity I'm curious what other opportunities you spot yeah let's do it okay sweet um dude I've been I've been taking groans for I don't know six six

to 12 months now because it's like it's basically like eating candy it's like you open up a pack of gummy bears and then you eat them and then you're I just had vegetables.

Totally.

I hate to tell you, but I I think I just had vegetables, maybe.

Totally.

And so I want to know where were you sitting when you were like, you know what? What if we did this?

what? What if we did this?

Yeah. So, um I'd like to describe myself as a entrepreneur who had short stints in private equity and investment banking. So, I've I've started three

banking. So, I've I've started three companies. This is my third company. And

companies. This is my third company. And

I actually didn't want to start a company. So, I was on my way from Boston

company. So, I was on my way from Boston at a private equity firm called Summit Partners and was leaving that investment firm to go get my MBA at Stanford and I told myself, look, I just want to have

like a normal MBA experience for 2 years. I'm not going to start anything.

years. I'm not going to start anything.

Maybe I'll do an internship in the summer. And then it was like 2 weeks

summer. And then it was like 2 weeks before going out uh to Stanford. I was

at my parents place in in Utah and just doing some work and I'm drinking a greens powder. I'm in my dad's office

greens powder. I'm in my dad's office and I just remember looking up like super vividly in the in the corner of the room being like there's no way I'm keeping this habit past 30 days. Like

I'll I'll do it cuz I always finish what I started but like I'm not going to stick to this habit post 30 days. And it

wasn't just the taste. It for me it was like you know you got that weird like frothy sediment at the bottom of the drink. And the biggest thing for me that

drink. And the biggest thing for me that I think this is probably unique is I I remember staring at the bottle sitting on the countertop on like the drying rack and I remember being and I'm sort of an OCD person. I remember just being

like if I commit to this habit, I've got to like stare at that bottle on the countertop for the rest of my life, right? Like there's there's just no way

right? Like there's there's just no way that's going to happen. Um and so that got me thinking about, hey, how do I take a a comprehensive supplement nutrition and put it in some format? I

didn't know it'd be gummy at the time when I had the idea. How do I put it in some format that gets people looking forward to it? Like they'll go to bed at night being like, I can't wait to have that the next day, which which is a complete pivot, I think, to how people

sort of think about supplementation.

Can we like roll it into a blunt now?

Yeah, exactly. Look, hey,

smoke your greens.

Well, we'll talk about that. I think I honestly think that's the biggest opportunity for founders. Like people

just want to rip on the formats that work. But I I think if you want to have

work. But I I think if you want to have the greatest odds of success, it's by creating a new format, right? So if it's a blunt, awesome. If it's these little Zen pouches that people are doing now

and making those like uh focus, so it's non- nicotine, great. Like new formats win.

Did you think that? Um I mean just it's it's maniacal. 32 months to a a mult or

it's maniacal. 32 months to a a mult or a billion dollar exit is maniacal. Did

you call your shot and you're like that's where we're going to go or were you like who knows? I mean what where was your mindset when you started it?

This is a bit shocking to hear, but we've basically met the forecast uh that we've put in place since the very beginning. You have to appreciate I was

beginning. You have to appreciate I was I talked with like thousands of uh entrepreneurs when I was at Summit Partners. I I looked at the proprietary

Partners. I I looked at the proprietary data sets. I don't have them obviously

data sets. I don't have them obviously anymore, but I have a very visual memory. So, I know the LTV, the CACs of

memory. So, I know the LTV, the CACs of hundreds of brands. Um, and so like for me it's weird like I I could tell you I won't but I could tell you what like every big brand LTV to CAC and margin

looks like all the brands that we know of today. Now I didn't really forecast

of today. Now I didn't really forecast beyond 100 million of revenue cuz that would be pretty pointless. Like I'm not a sociopath.

Yeah. There's a fine line between ambition and being just absolutely batshit. So you're you're saying that

batshit. So you're you're saying that now I want to ask you something about in between when you're like oh like I don't really enjoy this form factor. What if

there was another? And you said you didn't have gummies, you know, right away as like a it's not like you immediately had the fully baked idea, but I'm curious like what were the either companies or products you had

like admired cuz I sort of have this this thing which is like what you admire becomes a little bit of your destiny, right? Your your admiration becomes your

right? Your your admiration becomes your destination. And if you think about like

destination. And if you think about like a lot of a great great entrepreneur Steve Jobs famously, who did he admire?

What products he admire? and then you steal little elements of that, they they sort of bleed out into your final products years later. Same thing with comedians and movie makers. What were

the products and companies that you thought were kick-ass that you feel like inspired some of the result of Grunes?

Yeah, look, I I sat on the board or observed the boards of great brands like Ruggable, Dr. Squatch, Brooklyn, Chubbies, Solo Stove, Thuma, 12

different businesses. And so I learned a

different businesses. And so I learned a lot from the unique problems and frankly the recipes that worked for each of them. I would say that the brand that I

them. I would say that the brand that I think we most closely resemble in terms of execution is Dr. Squatch.

Is that deodorant?

It's the cold processed soaps. So the

bar soaps that um for men I've seen like the marketing but I I think I have the deodorant but I I don't know what's the what's so special about it. Like is there something cool about

it. Like is there something cool about it?

Yeah. So what's cool about it is so they just sold the unilver like last year for 1.5 billion and in that business what's cool about it is one cold processed soap is more natural I would say so it's

you're not getting all the chemicals and stuff in it. It's a very clean product but because of the branding the approach the partnerships they do I mean they've done partnerships with like Harry Potter, Star Wars, uh Spongebob, all

sorts of really cool like fun um partnerships. They've taken an approach

partnerships. They've taken an approach where you as a consumer relate to the brand, right? And so, prior to Dr.

brand, right? And so, prior to Dr. Squatch, I don't even know what I was using. I was probably using what I

using. I was probably using what I whatever my wife was buying and stocking in the the shower, but but they were the inspiration for us. I think that what they've done within the personal care space, making it a joy for the consumer

is what we aspired to do within supplementation where I mean, we all spend time on social media. You get one ad and it's like, "Oh my goodness, Sean, Sam, I don't know how old you guys are, but you're blank years old and you've

never heard of creatine. What the hell are you doing with your life? Like,

you're gonna die tomorrow." And then you get a colostrum app. What are you doing with your life? Like, you need to be taking colostrum right now. It does a blank percent increase in blank body metric. And and I I just think that um

metric. And and I I just think that um the way that we have approached and took inspiration from Dr. Squatch is to take that and make our supplementation a lifestyle, something that people look forward to. they uh feel like it

forward to. they uh feel like it resonates with who they are and and how they live their lives.

All right, let's take a quick break.

This podcast is called My First Million, and it's probably the question we get asked the most. How do I go from zero to making my first million? And so, I did an episode a little while back where I broke down exactly the sort of philosophy and frameworks that I would

use. to things like finding your white

use. to things like finding your white belt business or identifying your bear on a unicycle advantage, the core way that your two skills can overlap or why maybe starting a service business is

better than starting a software business for your initial businesses to make that first million. And so the team at

first million. And so the team at HubSpot has created a guide that took the stuff I said in that episode, they laid it all out for you. You can get it for free in the description below. Just

click that link and it's all yours. All

right, back to this episode. How much

money did you raise to get to your first million in revenue and how fast did it come?

Yeah, month one um we did like 30,000 of revenue and month two is already like 230,000. So I guess we like in month two

230,000. So I guess we like in month two month into the business we had um already crossed the the 1 million run rate probably 2 and a half 3 million at that point.

I I've never really looked at the business that way. Maybe you've heard me talk about LTV to CAC.

Yeah. Uh, I I would say we burned we probably burned through like $8 billion of capital until we reached profitability. That could have been less

profitability. That could have been less if we slowed down growth a little bit, but just the way it worked out is we I think we've earned through about $8 million of uh primary capital before we hit profitability.

You you mentioned like focusing on LTV to CAC for you. What's good and what's great?

Yeah, I I think table stakes for businesses that need to be acquired. um

you need to be at least three. The best

I saw one obviously this goes where we're at but during the co era I would see brands in the four to five range you know those brands are probably two and a half to three times right now

but when you say LTV are you referring to so LTV lifetime value is for for a ecom brand does value mean um your contribution margin yeah let me describe that the way that I

always look at it I use a three-year period um so 36 months and LTV is fully burdened gross profit. Meaning Sam

orders our product. What is the what are the total costs stripped out of that value to get it to Sam's door? So,

you've got product cogs, you've got discounts, returns, you've got fulfillment, shipping, uh merchant processing fees. Like, you've got all of

processing fees. Like, you've got all of that that gets it to the door. That's

your lifetime value over a three-year period. How much contribution gross

period. How much contribution gross profit are you getting from the consumer over a three-year period? And you use three years not because that's how long someone subscribes to Grunes. You just

said three years for everyone should use three years.

You can't do a lifetime.

Yeah. I think it I think it's like just a productive way of looking at it to optimize against. I mean we obviously

optimize against. I mean we obviously look at 3 months, 6 months, 12 months uh and try to make adjustments based on that. Um but yeah, I mean we've got

that. Um but yeah, I mean we've got consumers who are, you know, we're 32 months old. So, we we haven't hit that

months old. So, we we haven't hit that 36-month mark, but like there's very clearly going to be consumers who are around purchasing into I guess quote perpetuity.

And you uh picked a name that if you had told me I would have been like, "Hey, brother, do you want to win or are you going to put a um llad over one of the letters and nobody knows how to say it

and then you won so I'm an idiot." What

what what's the what gives? So, what I always say here is uh and Sam botched uh Gruins at the start. He said Gruns, which is totally fine. What I tell people is what I tell people is I do not

care how you pronounce our name as long as you're buying. So, like you can call it Gruns if you want. You can call it Gruns, which is correct. It's Grun.

But, but did did you think it was a good name and you knew something none of us do or did you just not care about the name? And how the hell did you arrive at

name? And how the hell did you arrive at that name?

Yeah. So, the word groans with an S, I guess I can show you here, with an S at the end, actually doesn't mean anything um in the German language. The word glon means green in German, but once you

throw an S on it, there's actually no meaning to it. And so, when I threw an S on it, it it just seemed to be like kind of fun and playful. You've got this like natural smiley face. Um it felt like

something that uh we could brand over time really well. And it's it's simple, but you're right. Like at least in America, very uniquely in America, like 70% of consumers don't know how to pronounce it.

That'd be like your argument to the team, like, "No, guys, it makes a ton of sense." Now, it it may not make sense in

sense." Now, it it may not make sense in America, but like, you know, that's uh Sean, we had we had this guy David on who runs a company called Lexicon and his whole job is naming companies. He's

named Swiffer, Fbreze, Sonos, Blackberry. Sean, what do you think

Blackberry. Sean, what do you think David would say about that name? Well,

it's hard to know, right? Because he's

got this little AI computer brain where he's like, "Yes, no." And it's almost like a Somalier describing the taste of a wine and then you just have to nod along like an idiot. Be like, "Yeah, I I I sense the notes that you're talking

about there. I thought notes are for

about there. I thought notes are for music, but I definitely sense it." Um,

and so, you know, I think it's hard to know, but I would have guessed low, right? You're talking about like doesn't

right? You're talking about like doesn't make much sense in America, the market we're going after, but you did it anyways. what was runnerup name or you

anyways. what was runnerup name or you know in the brainstorming process sometimes you start with like here's what we're definitely not going to call it because it kind of guides you away from maybe some typical areas

honestly like I hit it pretty quick. So

I guess I I didn't mention this. I I

served I grew up Mormon. Um so I served a two-year mission in Germany, Switzerland, Austria. So like I am

Switzerland, Austria. So like I am fluent in German. Uh and so when when I had the thought I pretty sick assignment.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. It's literally

called the Alpine German speaking mission. So it's

mission. So it's Yeah. Like You know, someone else could

Yeah. Like You know, someone else could have been assigned to like, you know, Reading, California or Yeah, totally. That wouldn't be too bad.

Yeah, totally. That wouldn't be too bad.

That wouldn't be too bad. There's worse.

All right. So, you have the ideas. How

long did it take you to go from idea in your head to I know what the product is going to be and I have my first batch and then I go for sale. Like, what was that timeline like?

Yeah. So, coming up with gummies took about a day. Um I I grew up You're going to think this is crazy. You know those like big um like I guess they call them like single day servings of sour patch

watermelon uh slices. Yeah. Yeah. I would eat those

uh slices. Yeah. Yeah. I would eat those gummies one of those every day in college. Like a full 450 calories every

college. Like a full 450 calories every day. Um I've always been a gummy fiend.

day. Um I've always been a gummy fiend.

And so now I get to obviously have like a productive health gummy every single day. And there's a ton of them that we

day. And there's a ton of them that we sell. I have a ton of ideas always

sell. I have a ton of ideas always circulating in my head. and this notion doc I have uh and typically I sit on those ideas for about a year. This one I was like it's so obvious I got to do

this. I'm the right person to do it. And

this. I'm the right person to do it. And

so I started working on it immediately getting it to launch. Now to answer your question there I immediately like within a week of having the gummy sort of connection said okay why hasn't somebody

done this in gummy form right like you've got a ton of gummies. Why hasn't

somebody put comprehensive nutrition in a gummy? And the big aha moment for me

a gummy? And the big aha moment for me was the entire gummy industry is built around these 60 or 30 count bottles, transparent bottles with a cap on the

top. That that is as gummy exists. So I

top. That that is as gummy exists. So I

asked the question, what what would need to change? What would it need to look

to change? What would it need to look like to have gummy be comprehensive nutrition? And then that's when I went

nutrition? And then that's when I went down the path of like, okay, if it's a, you know, a pack, how big is the pack?

How many gummies are in it? What's the

flavor of the gummy? What's the total important Sam? Sam Sam, you've never

important Sam? Sam Sam, you've never taken the product, right?

No, I'm going to buy it now, though.

So, the way it works is this is a good point you just brought up, which is you don't like when we say it's a gummy, you think it's a it's a gummy. No, a single serving, you eat eight of these things.

So, it's literally like having a pack of Sour Patch Kids, which I think was, you know, seems fine, whatever. But that's

actually pretty non-obvious. And if I'm reading between the lines of or if I'm understanding what you're saying, you're saying one of the reasons nobody had done the comprehensive gummy was because the gummy would need to be like, you

know, 4 in large to contain everything.

But what if we made it what if we made it where it's not a gummy a day, it's a pack of eight. We we package them as little pouches of eight. And that's how that's how we can do this when other people may not have tried to do this.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's uh our packs are it's about eight. We go off of gram weight, which is about 20 gram. And some

grams are smaller or bigger than others.

But yeah, it's a it's a full every gummy is identical in terms of nutrition. It's

sort of the total of the eight in this case um that make up the full desk. I

just think that it's insane that I asked you a question that I thought was going to be ridiculous about like you pointing like Babe Ruth and saying like, you know, we're going to get to this and you're like, yes, that was part of the

plan. I mean, it's pretty audacious to

plan. I mean, it's pretty audacious to say, I'm going to get to 100 million in revenue in less than three years. For

the people listening, what are the inputs necessary to get to 100 million in revenue for an ecom brand in 3 years?

So, it doesn't have to be consumables. I

think everybody points at consumables these days and they're like, ah, supplements. It's like it's a better

supplements. It's like it's a better business. It's not necessarily a better

business. It's not necessarily a better business because if you're selling a a hard good like bed sheets or furniture, your margins are going to be worse. It's

going to be more difficult to ship.

Like, there's a lot of things in there.

But you theoretically make money on day one. In supplements, you don't. You got

one. In supplements, you don't. You got

to make that money on the retention. So

that that's a new lever you got to pull to make the business work. So to answer it directly, Sam, I think first and foremost, you've got to have a good product. And good product doesn't mean

product. And good product doesn't mean like make a better version of Grunins.

Like that's not going to work for people. What's going to work is finding

people. What's going to work is finding that product category, that whites space. Good product equals new whites

space. Good product equals new whites space. So, you've seen um I'm sure you

space. So, you've seen um I'm sure you guys have seen these like uh nicotine pouches, the whip and like ultras of the world. I would not encourage

world. I would not encourage an energy. It's basically looks like a

an energy. It's basically looks like a zen, but it's not tobacco or nicotine.

It's energy.

Yeah. It's like like caffeine and other things that uh like the nicotine pouches. Um

pouches. Um amazing. Not because I'm a believer in

amazing. Not because I'm a believer in the product, but amazing because now you're taking a new format form factor that doesn't have competitors. And so I think anybody looking at it and be like, "Oh, I'm going to do it, too." Like, you might find a little bit of success, but

you're not going to sell your business.

You're not going to be the winner here.

Go find a new product format. Symbiotica

came out with these little liposals. Um,

who else have I seen that that's created new Oh, you've got like, do you know the product dose? It's like the liver health

product dose? It's like the liver health product. It's like these little shot

product. It's like these little shot glasses. Um, it's like it's like a

glasses. Um, it's like it's like a concentrated liquid. That's another one.

concentrated liquid. That's another one.

I I wouldn't a concentrated liquid of what? Liver.

Like their supplement is a concentrated liquid for uh the liver. So look up I think it's daily dose.co is the website.

That's another product that has like a unique format. Another one for you. You

unique format. Another one for you. You

guys know Mary Ruth Organics or Row Nutrition RH.

Uhhuh.

So those are like uh I'm not sure if they're liposomaal, but they're like liquid vitamins, right? Like their

approaches were the liquid vitamins. I'm

shocked there's no not more competition doing that. Like these are big

doing that. Like these are big businesses. Every single one of the ones

businesses. Every single one of the ones I just mentioned is a big business doing really well.

So the framework of this is taking a thing that everyone knows or or many people know and just slightly changing the form the the the way you consume.

But everything that you've named so far has been a consumable.

Correct. Because that's the space that I'm like most uh familiar with and people typically are uh looking at right now. But like it would be the same thing

now. But like it would be the same thing like do you know how big cozy earth is?

their whole thing was bamboo sheets, right? And and I don't if you ask me,

right? And and I don't if you ask me, I'm sure other businesses sell bamboo sheets, but like that's their thing. Um,

and like they're a big business as well.

And so I I could give you examples across all sorts of categories.

Obviously, supplementation is the easiest for people to visualize.

Wow.

So So the step one you're saying is good product, but let's say that less generically, what you're saying is the right product. And the right product is

right product. And the right product is a category that's not already super saturated and you either either you take an existing category, you change the form factor to make it new or you find a

new painoint, new problem, new supplement, new whatever and you're going to do it. You need some point of key differentiation, your vitamins but your liquid, your sheets but your bamboo, your u you know your greens but

your gummies and you find that key point of differentiation which gives you new category. All right, that's step one.

category. All right, that's step one.

And to be clear, a couple that I've just seen recently and then I'll tell you the step two. I've seen jelly beans as a

step two. I've seen jelly beans as a form factor. I've seen lollipops, right?

form factor. I've seen lollipops, right?

Like people are it it do I think that those businesses are going to be huge?

Probably not. Like it's a little bit niche, but like they're probably going to be more successful than somebody making a gummy like us.

Hey, stupid question. You started this by saying Sour Patch Kids.

Yeah.

Um how come none of the gummies are sour? This Why does anybody be like,

sour? This Why does anybody be like, "It's sour vitamins. I would eat that."

TVD. We might we might give you something like that, Sean. I'm a sour fiend as well. I'm gonna hit that. Don't

worry.

Sometimes I want to start the business and then sometimes I realize, oh, I know I'm just hungry and I just want to eat that thing and I don't need to start and that this might be the category or maybe I'm just hungry.

Wait, you actually said something interesting. You said it's too niche. Is

interesting. You said it's too niche. Is

there a what's your to getting to 100 million in revenue? Is there um Okay, so you said take the form factor. Um and

then the second or I don't know if it's the second thing, but there there is a TAM related thing here. Is there like um a threshold where you're like this has legs?

Look, like I'm I'm I'm a bit psycho, right? Like all I've seen around me is

right? Like all I've seen around me is businesses getting to hundreds of millions of revenue quickly. So like my gauge for success is in in the business I started, the first business I started,

I literally sunset 6 months in. It was

in 100,000 of revenue and 90% ebid on margins. And I sunset it because I said

margins. And I sunset it because I said this isn't big enough. Like this isn't But that's how I'm wired, right? Like if

somebody wanted to get to a $5 million cash flow business and run that, like that's that's massive success. So I'm

I'm not going to like deter people from But I want to know your your threshold.

Yeah, my threshold. Well, I mean my my sites are even bigger now, right? Like

I'm still working on Gruns and Neutropes and uh Juiced and these products you see behind me. We have more than just Grunes

behind me. We have more than just Grunes now. Happy to talk about that. But uh I

now. Happy to talk about that. But uh I mean at this point I'm looking only at stuff that can be one10 billion dollar outcomes somewhere around there.

So let's let's keep going in your formula. What's what's uh did we do step

formula. What's what's uh did we do step two or number two and this is the end of it is LTV to CAC. So if your if your business has an LTV to CAC of three times plus

you are golden. Anytime people talk about profitability anytime people talk about me I'm not sure if you're familiar with that. uh it's like marketing

with that. uh it's like marketing efficiency ra ratio um I the way that you think about it is like if you're if you spend 20% of your marketing or of

your revenue on marketing then the inverse of that is a 5x me right so one divided by all you're saying is I want a machine where I can buy a customer for a dollar and I know that in 36 months that

customer will pay me back $3 and I'm going to dump as much dollars as I can into the front of that funnel as long as that's possible and I'd say the key here is most people I I don't know maybe maybe I'm just wrong. But I think a lot

of people think lifetime revenue lifetime value as just revenue. And what

you're saying importantly here is it's the, you know, totally fully loaded gross profit. So to get to three, you're

gross profit. So to get to three, you're probably actually doing $6 of revenue on that customer. Uh close to it. Five,

that customer. Uh close to it. Five,

five to six to get three bucks of gross profit off that off that customer.

Correct. Whatever your margin is. But

yeah, that's correct. you've got to do.

But if you hit that three times fully burdened gross profit LTV uh divided by your CAC and that equals three or more, you've got a business.

How did you know that Gruns was going to be 1 to three?

Um I didn't I've I'd seen enough to know how it might play out, but we we came out with a CAC. Everybody at our company since day one knew what our CAC ceiling was that would result in a three times

or greater LTV the CAC. Can you say what that number is or no?

Well, when I first started, I mean, I can't really tell you, but what I'll tell you is it's 2x higher today than it was on day one of launching the business. Why? It's not because we

business. Why? It's not because we magically got better LTV. It's because I set the CAC so low to ensure that we'd be able to hit it.

So, what does that mean then? Your ads

need to be extra catchy. In order to make extra catchy ads, you need like a super good offer or a super good story or a super like, you know, it's all of it. It's kind of all of it.

And that that's where like I think this gets so difficult is people are like, you know, sometimes I see the shadow figures that are running these drop shipping companies and they're like Grin's ads are bad. Like they're not

even good. They're so like non-creative.

even good. They're so like non-creative.

And that's cuz we're like a reputable company that doesn't say we can cure cancer. You like do these things that

cancer. You like do these things that some of these shadow figures do. Uh like

that's not creative. That's just

actually like bad to do as a human. Um

but like to answer your question, like it's not just like creating good good ads. You got to have the good offer.

ads. You got to have the good offer.

You've got to have the good retention.

You got to have a good product, right?

Like you have to have a product that people actually want to take. Um like

our Amazon LTV to CAC is phenomenal.

Like and that's on a platform where we're not advertising the way that you do on Meta. We're not like you don't have your subscription portal in a certain way. It's like a one-click

certain way. It's like a one-click cancel button. And that's like leagues

cancel button. And that's like leagues beyond what I've seen with other brands in terms of Amazon economics.

DTOC is one of these funny spaces like I I think I DM'd you know I I read our DM Sean uh from like a couple years ago man it would it would have been like in 2023 like 3 months into the business

you're asking about the landing page.

Yeah. So 3 months into the business I was I think I just sent you a compliment. I was like hey I think your

compliment. I was like hey I think your landing page is really great. you know,

I guess the interesting thing is you were really you were quiet, right?

Because there's this weird um paradox and I would call it the drop shippers paradox, which is sort of the louder somebody tends to be about their e-commerce success, I sort of I sort of

um proportionally increase my skepticism. And I feel like you were

skepticism. And I feel like you were very quiet and you built a killer business and then now once you've kind of like, you know, reached a big exit and a mountain top, sure, you could talk a little bit more about it. You're doing

a little bit a little more time. What do

you think about that? What do you see when you look out at the landscape of like people who are are quite vocal, quite loud on on DDC Twitter and other places?

You know, I I want to have uh sympathy for how others run their businesses. And

so what I will say is like I've had chats with some of these people who are louder who are running, you know, these businesses that they they're little shadow businesses. Like you don't know

shadow businesses. Like you don't know what their business is, but it's doing 100 million of revenue or whatever. And

what I've come to realize is some of these people just don't know yet that what they're doing is inappropriate, right? That the ads they're running is

right? That the ads they're running is inapprop are inappropriate. They don't

really understand the consequences.

They're, you know, they're fist bumping their friends about the Lamborghini they just bought. And and so what I would say

just bought. And and so what I would say there is like I think it's less about how loud people are. I think it's about the natural evolution that we all go through as we learn um what it means to

be like a a reputable business person um running like a a clean business and and that comes with time. I I happen to learn most of it through amazing brands that with great executive teams that I

learned from who are mentors and friends and and I think for some of these people they're learning and it's going to take a little bit of time.

So from the outside I look at you and I think well you seem really I I've only known you for 30 minutes. You seem very calm. you seem very well balanced. You

calm. you seem very well balanced. You

seem uh like a lovely person. The

success has been off the charts and I think well everything's perfect. Um this

guy's just had it all. Of course I that's not the reality. So what has what has sucked about this journey?

You know it's funny the team we have this joke internally um that I'm the chillst guy we know and and it's like sort of kind of true. Like I am actually a pretty calm person and I think mistakes are all part of the learning.

Like no business is perfect. A perfect

business is one that learns quickly from the mistakes that it makes and people aren't to blame for that. What I'll say is, you know, I I could give you an example of actually like a really rough day we had uh on January 29th of 2024

and I'll I can tell you a little bit about that, but I would say the hardest thing about building a business like this that folks just don't appreciate is

just how difficult it is to build a team of all star. And more difficult than that, unleash them. Give them the space

to play and run and execute according to their abilities. And that's really been

their abilities. And that's really been our unlock is one getting amazing individuals. I think if you look at our

individuals. I think if you look at our executive team, if you look at our entire team, right, the 130 people plus at this company, I think people would be like that is a stacked team and they're not going anywhere. We're having a good

time. Like we've got a lot ahead of us

time. Like we've got a lot ahead of us that we want to do and the culture here allows for them to to excel in a way that they wouldn't be able to do offline. dive deeper on that because

offline. dive deeper on that because people always say hire the best people and and all that and I say that too and but it's that's I hate when I give that advice or when I receive it because I'm not trying to hire the worst people like

I am I am trying. So what does the best people actually mean? What is what do you look for? What attributes?

Yeah. You know what's so funny about this Sam? I've heard people be like,

this Sam? I've heard people be like, "Oh, well like somebody could be the best for your role." And I'm like, "No, no, no. There's like legit people who

no, no. There's like legit people who are the best." like like you're probably just not able to hire them if you're saying like well we got the best for this like narrowly carved out role. So

when I say like the best is what we're looking for is people who have confidence to make decisions right. So,

everyone has the ability to be essentially a CEO. And frankly, I would not be surprised if we're talking 5 years from now. And a lot of the folks here at Grun have started companies that

are really successful because they've had that skill set, that uh repetition of making decisions as if they're the CEO. Uh, and so I I would say that it

CEO. Uh, and so I I would say that it comes down to just being like reps, experience, training in in whatever function. If you're a marketing person,

function. If you're a marketing person, a retention person, if you're a product person, and then the hardest part again, and this is where I think the people listening to this who might be founders

or CEOs have to check themselves, is how do you unblock these people? How do you get out of the way to ensure that everybody together is building something massive?

I want to ask you about your marketing because I think you did world-class marketing. Like we said years ago, I

marketing. Like we said years ago, I compliment first thing I ever said to you was, "Yo, nice landing page." Right?

Like that's the highest form of of respect I give. Um you I want to actually open up here. Let me screen share. I want to show you

share. I want to show you your Facebook ad library. And I just want you to talk us through a sort of a 10-minute master class on marketing.

Yeah.

So, I want you to tell me what you see because, you know, the average person will look at this. They don't really know what to take. I want you to point out what's interesting here. Let me see if I can zoom this a little bit. Uh

what's interesting here? or what to notice, what to learn from um that would apply to other people in their businesses, how to think about marketing the way you guys thought about marketing.

Yeah. I mean, the first thing I see when you go back up like what does it say?

Poop more.

Like what other supplement brand do you know that's like being a little bit sassy with commentary like that? Now you

see it a little bit more from these brands that are like just talking about their clinicals all the time, which nothing against clinicals. Like we

do clinicals too and we we test our product electively well beyond what's sort of required. But like we just don't talk about it because that's not fun.

And so like what I would say here is like these are fun ads, right? Like this

is like somebody sees that they're probably laughing a little bit. Like if

you scroll down, you know, we spent some time on GLP1 as an angle. And I'm really proud the day that we decided to do this because everyone around us, and I don't spend enough time on Instagram to know,

everyone around us is like nature is ampic or um like they they'll say something like that which is like objectively wrong. Like you're not

objectively wrong. Like you're not supposed to say that. We've never taken that approach. We are what we would say

that approach. We are what we would say the best friend to Zimpic, Tzepide, Zepbound, whatever the sort of GP1 ones are.

So you were able to kind of surf that wave. You were able to hijack some of

wave. You were able to hijack some of the momentum of that product and position yourself not as a replacement but as a companion.

Wait, why did you have why do you have an Lollipop? Okay.

an Lollipop? Okay.

Well, it was a GL the GLP1's new crush ad was a lollipop uh image on it. And so

we're running a limited time offer right now with Lollipop. So this is the flavor. It's an Lollipop flavor.

flavor. It's an Lollipop flavor.

So this is this is Gruins, which I guess you can see right here. I'm pointing to it on the video. Maybe people are on audio, but we've got Grins sort of original. And then, you know, every

original. And then, you know, every month or two months we do these limited time offer drops with, in this case, is Lollipop strawberry vanilla flavor. You

know, the first one we did was like a Granny Smith apple, like Granny Smith apple flavored. We did a Grinch sour

apple flavored. We did a Grinch sour Grinch punch last year in November. So

we do these this again back to the whole like how do we make this fun? Like you

tell me one other supplement brand that's doing like drops in and making it actually fun to to take the product each day. So

day. So and so it looks like you've got different angles. So you've got uh hey

different angles. So you've got uh hey we're we're you know OMIC's best friend.

You've got poop more. You've got uh nurse you know the nurse here who's uh probably talking about nutrient gaps.

Nurse Jackie talking about nutrients.

You have these different angles and I'm guessing that the these each lead to a landing page that aligns with that message. Correct. So it's like

message. Correct. So it's like five six different angles each to a tailored landing page that continues that message and then you're are you doing that just to experiment to find one winner or you like no we're going to keep running five or six of these

because there's just different markets of different customers who have different mindsets and we're going to try to get all of them.

Yeah. To to make this super applicable for people you should test ads in high volume. So find new angles, test all

volume. So find new angles, test all over the place. find what sticks with an eye towards be a good human, right?

Don't don't say that you like you're going to make somebody's sex better if your product doesn't actually do that, like actually do the science validation if your product can help with certain things. Once you've identified an angle

things. Once you've identified an angle that seems to be running, then you build the entire funnel around it. So, you've

got you've got static ads that talk to that angle. You've got UGC sort of hoist

that angle. You've got UGC sort of hoist the camera angle um ads that run at that. you've got um like more like

that. you've got um like more like cinematic type shoots that run at that angle. Everything you're just plowing

angle. Everything you're just plowing all sorts of ad concepts toward or sorry, ad structures to that angle. From

there, where people land is really important. What people receive as a

important. What people receive as a pop-up is really important. What people

receive as email and SMS is really important. Everything is tailored to

important. Everything is tailored to that message. So, if you came in on a

that message. So, if you came in on a gut health ad, we want everything tailored to, hey, you know, Sam just expressed interest in the gut health ad.

Great. Then Sam's probably interested in gut health. Let's give a popup that

gut health. Let's give a popup that helps him understand what about gut health is he interested in. That popup

informs what messages we send on email and SMS um towards Sam's expressed concern. That page is dialed for Sam's

concern. That page is dialed for Sam's intent. And then on the back end of that

intent. And then on the back end of that once people have purchased this is something that we're trying to put into process now is how do we talk to Sam long term? You know he may have started

long term? You know he may have started on gut health but how would he how do we get Sam to understand that there's so much more to this product than just gut health and do that over time building on sort of the foundation of why this

product was uh important.

Most everything you're saying um it's sort of like when I win read the book How to Win Friends and Influence People.

I'm like oh yeah this is obvious makes sense. Makes sense. But the hard part is

sense. Makes sense. But the hard part is execution. Um, and it it seems like

execution. Um, and it it seems like you're ruthlessly uh in a kind way executing. What's So I'm going to ask a

executing. What's So I'm going to ask a bunch of questions I think you can answer in one in one go. Uh, how many ads and landing pages per month are you putting out? And I think you only said

putting out? And I think you only said you had a 30 person team. That seems

like a lot of output for a relatively small team. Can you talk about like

small team. Can you talk about like who's doing the work?

Yeah. Uh, we're probably putting out hundreds of ads a month, cycling in and out. Uh, just trying to find that next

out. Uh, just trying to find that next you know, unlock. Um, we try to create new concepts pretty consistently. So,

uh, it's not just about ad volume. It's

actually structured around like how much of that is like business as usual, ads that we already know or structure or sorry, concepts, themes that we know already work and how much of that is

like we're trying to find new frontier of applicability. in terms of the team,

of applicability. in terms of the team, you know, when Sean reached out to me in December of 2023 saying, "Hey, nice landing page." That was me, right? Like

landing page." That was me, right? Like

I was the guy that built that landing page. We didn't use an agency. I think I

page. We didn't use an agency. I think I even said that in the the message cuz you asked. That was me from the

you asked. That was me from the beginning. And you know, you see our buy

beginning. And you know, you see our buy box. It's that place where you do the ad

box. It's that place where you do the ad to cart, which see people rip that over the last 3 years, copying that buy box.

And if they only knew that random dude named Chad who's not like an ecom expert, you know, broadly across TDC, I I'd know quite a bit. But like I'm not an ecom guy who builds these sites, the whole industry is mimicking this this

format. Yeah, it's really interesting to

format. Yeah, it's really interesting to see that I think people need to test their own. And since then, we found new

their own. And since then, we found new formats that work. But talking about the team, we've got people across, we've got like three folks on the retention team who do the emails, uh, SMS, who set up

all the flows that allow for our consumers to have a good experience. Um,

so they're focused on after order one, what does that journey look like through order hundreds, right? We've got a large team doing paid. So creating ads, the

actual creatives. We have probably four

actual creatives. We have probably four plus maybe five or six creative strategists who actually create the ads.

And then we have people who design and do the video edits. And then we have the people who actually manage the ad accounts, right? There's probably four

accounts, right? There's probably four or five of those who actually like are looking at the analytics, evaluating, passing back to the creative strategist saying, "Here's what's working. Iterate

on that." We've got an ecom team that's absolutely dialed. the the velocity

absolutely dialed. the the velocity coming out of ecom now. So landing page designs, iterations on the cart, checkout, post purchase, like all of that good stuff. We're we're constantly

iterating on it. I mean, it's so fun to see, right? Like it used to be me

see, right? Like it used to be me throwing up a quick website um against that angle and now we've got like a full um infrastructure around it.

Still, that's crazy. That just not seem like a lot of that doesn't seem like a big operation for creating hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue and hundreds of ads.

It it doesn't require a lot. And I would tell people that they can do it themselves, right? You create a template

themselves, right? You create a template and, you know, shout out to Replo is the platform that I used and I think you can do hundreds of millions of uh revenue on Replo. Um I think it's replo.app is the

Replo. Um I think it's replo.app is the website and it's a Shopify plugin. I

mean, it's such a good platform. You can

just create a template. The only thing you need to swap out is like the headline, whether it says gut health or it talks about pick your other ad theme.

Substitute the like uh little blocks on the page with the new ad copy. It's like

it's not that hard. Like in a day you can create a completely new adunnel that is going to have incremental performance against a sort of general landing page.

That guy's got to clip that clip and make that ready to see your face on a repo ad.

Look, and I have no problem. They don't

charge I mean I've told them before.

They don't charge enough. It it's it's stupid how much value you can get out of that. And I would say this about a lot

that. And I would say this about a lot of our platforms. They're just getting a shout out because it's relevant here.

What do you see when you look at average marketing versus world-class marketing?

What do you think? If I'm somebody who's got a brand or a company and I have a landing page, I got ads. I'm doing all the things. He said test creative. I'm

the things. He said test creative. I'm

testing creative. He said test. I think

I'm doing that. What are the most typically missing when you either advise a founder or you go look at somebody else's brand and you're like, "Oh man, they're just not doing this one thing, this these two things well enough to

really jump from average or good to great."

great." Have a better product is typically what it comes down to. which is like so unhelpful cuz it's like you got to cut your losses.

But like a lot of the people who are trying to like find these hacks, they're doing it with like a a mailed product like some they they like didn't we took a year to develop our product. It's

custom blends.

Well, how did you know that it worked?

Because a lot of times when I take vitamins, I don't necessarily know if it's working. Did you like get your

it's working. Did you like get your blood tested a bunch?

This is the beauty of this industry is if you go to Pup Med and Are you familiar with PupMed? It's a pub it's a where studies are right.

Yeah. All the studies are published there. I mean if you put vitamin C in

there. I mean if you put vitamin C in your product and there's thousands of studies about what vitamin C does. Sure.

Maybe I don't know the precise outcomes of 120% blind sample survey placeboc controlled trial.

But like I can pretty much guess what the outcomes are going to be based on the thousands of other published studies against vitamin C. So to answer your question, Sam, no, I didn't. Prior to

launching, I hadn't done those tests, but like I looked through thousands of articles to land on what I believed the the right formulation would be for our product. And that's also what I tested

product. And that's also what I tested with consumers pre-launch is what's your perception of of this label? What's your

perception of this many gummies, the size of gummy, this flavor of gummy, all of that stuff?

What's on your um ideas list? But you're

not going to actually go do it. So you

can you can riff with us here of brainstorming other brands, other ideas that you think are interesting. May not

may or may not work, but interesting.

Yeah. And also, you mentioned that you have a notion doc if you if you're comfortable.

If you want to pull up your bank balance, we can also just do that.

Tell you wiring instructions, too. Um,

here here's what I'll say. One thing

that I that I disagree with is people say ideas aren't worth anything. Oh,

man, do I disagree. I I think ideism were so much in the right hands and in my hands they're in the right hands. I

believe and every founder should believe that about themselves. Um and so there are certain ideas I can't share cuz I'm like guys like I I legit have an idea

that years from now like I've still got a lot I want to do with Gruns. Like like

actually there's a lot I want to do with this business. I'm not done here. But

this business. I'm not done here. But

like years from now I think there's an idea that no one else is going to be able to run it that is a $10 billion business idea and I'm should just say it now and we'll bleep it out and we can react. Yeah. Give us like a code word or

react. Yeah. Give us like a code word or something so we can we can at least give you credit for it uh years later.

We're the wrong heads.

When when you see it, you'll know.

You'll see it and you'll go, "Oh, yeah.

This is a this is a big business idea."

Um so, and I don't think anybody's going to do that in the meantime while I'm finishing my chapter here uh at Gruns and doing what I set out to do.

Okay. Okay. Well, what what what what are some other ideas that if in the right hands are great that that aren't your hands?

I had this idea one time. It has nothing to do with consumer. Um and I actually almost ran with it around the time I was starting Gruns and I still think it's a good idea, but I'm not going to be the

one to do it. So, I'm happy to share it.

Right now, there is no way to direct the money that you have coming in from like direct deposit. So that direct deposit

direct deposit. So that direct deposit hits your checking account and then we've all got to have the willpower to decide, oh, put 10% in savings and put this against your bills and do this over

here, blah blah blah. What if you become the essentially the distribution layer of a transfer? So it hits this distribution layer and before that person has to have the willpower to

decide what they're going to do with it and and this is helpful for so many people in their lives, right? It it gets wired out to the the rent that they have. It gets wired out to their car

have. It gets wired out to their car payment. it gets wired out to blank over

payment. it gets wired out to blank over here over here into their investment.

And so what actually hits their account that they're spending against is 500 bucks for groceries or whatever it is.

And uh the technology exists to do this, right? It hasn't been structured. I I

right? It hasn't been structured. I I

can't remember what platform allows for it, but there's a platform that can facilitate what I just described to you.

So like this idea could be done tomorrow.

That's a great idea. Um even whether it's for consumer or for businesses. I

have you ever read the book Profit First?

No. Somebody recommended on the podcast and they go it was like the time when my girlfriend bought me the book The Game before I went to college and we were going to break up and I was like you need to learn how to talk to girls and I

was like oh thank you. It was like a it was a gift but it was also a message and uh my friend told me about this book profit first. I think it was a gift and

profit first. I think it was a gift and a message and the message was hey you're running this business um and you've been doing it for years but you're not pulling out any profits and you don't know where all the money's going. It's

profitable on paper, but like you're not getting money out of this. And that's a very common business owner problem. And

there's this book called Profit First, which has this philosophy, which is basically you preset the budget. So what

most people do is they say, I have this much revenue. Then they have all their

much revenue. Then they have all their expenses and then they it's kind of like surprise, whatever's left over, that's your profit. And you're usually quite

your profit. And you're usually quite disappointed with that surprise. The

better way, what this guy advocates for is like you just set a budget for your P&L. You say, "Oh, I'm going to spend

P&L. You say, "Oh, I'm going to spend 25% on OPEX. I'm going to I need to reserve 20% for taxes so I'm not stressed out every tax season. So, I

just want to put that." And you b literally just create four separate accounts. You create a tax account, a

accounts. You create a tax account, a checking account. So, automatically 20%

checking account. So, automatically 20% gets goes in there and that's waiting for it's in like a money market account until tax season. You have your opex account and so now your team has to run on a budget. It's like this is how much

you have to spend. You don't get to just spend whatever and keep eating out of profits. and you set a profit threshold

profits. and you set a profit threshold where you say I want to have 50% profit.

So it basically pre-allocates to your as every dollar comes in 15 cents will go to the profit bucket 25% 25 cents will go to the opex bucket and is it's actually kind of a life-changing idea

because it forces it forces discipline.

You think you're running pretty lean until you actually have a hard cap on expenses and then you realize like oh actually there was way more fat I could trim. I actually could have been this

trim. I actually could have been this profitable yesterday. I just I let it be

profitable yesterday. I just I let it be an output rather than an input. But but

unfortunately there's not an easy way to do this. A very you have to like set up

do this. A very you have to like set up seven accounts with your bank and then you have to tell your accountant, "Hey, keep doing these sweeps every two weeks."

weeks." Have you guys heard of Simp? Do you guys remember Simple? Uh I loved Simple. It

remember Simple? Uh I loved Simple. It

was really cool. I I don't I think it's gone. It got it was one of the very

gone. It got it was one of the very first Silicon Valley um uh banking.

Yeah, Neoanks. And it was I don't even think Neo Bank was a a description.

The envelope system where you like put digitally money into different envelopes.

Yeah. like I didn't I didn't make a lot of money at the time and I was like but I want to like fly home to St. Louis to

see my family and so like it's going to take me 4 months and so I automatically when it would come in my bank account the way it would visualize it it was still one bank account it was like well this is this is how much is left you

know you have 350 bucks in your uh spending account but you have uh another 400 in your vacation account so like don't touch that money it was pretty cool so so Sam the here here's what I love

about this idea and Sean you're bringing up actually why I think this is even potentially more compelling for businesses because if you're changing the way that the P&L works I Venture capital firms want that because now there's more discipline around the money

that they're giving. Totally.

The the small founders who are making 5 million a year who want to pull 500,000 out.

They want it because now it's like, oh well, I'm forcing myself into that discipline to pull 500,000 out every year. It's like that's a huge use case

year. It's like that's a huge use case that I wasn't thinking of in in terms of personal. The problem with budgeting

personal. The problem with budgeting today is it's done. I I grew up in a family where at the age of six I was in Quicken and like I had to take every receipt, scan it, type it in back in the, you know,

your mom and dad made you do that.

My dad taught me budgeting. Yeah. Um

that's awesome. And and like we were so against debt and everything else, but I like it. So, it was awesome until there

like it. So, it was awesome until there was an imbalance at the end of the month and I had to go search for the 20 cents that was off.

Is that like a Mormon thing? because

I've I've I think I've met a bunch of Mormon buddies who are very disciplined with their monthly budgeting.

Yeah, it might be honestly it might be um something that's I mean there's a lot of like financial discipline in general.

But but to put put the headline on it to me what I love about this idea is it solves what I think sucked about the granularity of like wasting hours a

month a week on like typing in all my stuff. And it also solves the other end,

stuff. And it also solves the other end, right? like people they get to the end

right? like people they get to the end of the month and it's like that was actually a hassle to do. Did I change any of my behaviors based on it? I don't

know. And then the other end of it's like Mint back before that got acquired or whatever. And I think the other one

or whatever. And I think the other one today is Monarch, which I like Monarch have more money. It's like it's helpful to see, but like Monarch's not really like a proactive platform, right? It's

like, oh, I'm just like talking about is like I'll tell you how bad you're doing at it versus hey, let me just fix it for you. What you want is the fix it for me

you. What you want is the fix it for me solution. I really wonder whether, you

solution. I really wonder whether, you know, with agents or, you know, you take the popularity of like Mercury or the kind of all the popular NEO banks that are pretty product first.

Yeah.

And they're more programmable. I wonder

if either somebody could build it on top of one of those banks or if they'll end up releasing something like this themselves.

I think you get acquired. I I think if you run this business, you're going to be acquired for 500 million to a billion in like two years if you execute this right. Like somebody out there listening

right. Like somebody out there listening right now, feel free to send me a DM when you do it. like this this idea the infrastructure exists to be able to do this if you execute it correctly you you

are one making a massive impact in millions of people's lives and two you will have a financial outcome. What

would be cool is in if in 12 months we have to say, "Hey everyone, we did this podcast with Chad. Here here's what he said." And then we air this clip that

said." And then we air this clip that you just said, and then we're like, "Here's the update."

Um because this is this is fantastic.

This is really cool. We we we do this segment all the time. This is um this is a top tier idea.

You uh you have a couple of quotes that you sent us or like kind of philosophies. We always ask people what

philosophies. We always ask people what are your what are the philosophies you live by that you think are not not something everybody does or not everybody believes in. You said one one of them that I liked you go access is

everything and you explained how you didn't have a ton of access early on but you know through summit and Stanford like can you explain your access is everything philosophy? Yeah. Um I think

everything philosophy? Yeah. Um I think access and the privilege of having access in the world is something that when you don't have it, surround yourself with people who do and do good work for them and you will get access

every time. And then when you do have

every time. And then when you do have it, like the privilege I now have, I see it as your obligation, my obligation to give that back to others.

So explain what you what you mean by access. What's the personal story where

access. What's the personal story where where this kind of resonates?

Yeah. You know, like I'm a dude named Chad. I I worked in private equity. what

Chad. I I worked in private equity. what

you see today would not have existed without people leaning in and giving me access over time incrementally and me doing good work for them. So like if you go back I mean I was always curious on

this because I think you get asked in those questionnaires like are you are you middle income high income low income and like I was aware of sort of wealth but if I looked at sort of the income

that my parents had and I have seven there's seven of us kids so six siblings and and our income I think I was like bottom middle class is like how it was defined and I'm not saying that from a

standpoint of like ashamed like I'm grateful to have lived in this area and seen these people cuz I think you can solve a lot by just giving awareness to kids about what's possible. It's like

the grasshopper moment. Once they know, it's like, "Oh, now you can go get it."

So, I get um I was recruiting for uh the big three consulting, Mackenzie, BCG, Bane through a contact who who put me in touch. I didn't get it, but I landed

touch. I didn't get it, but I landed through another mentor this this gig at Lazard. I did really good work at

Lazard. I did really good work at Lazard's an investment bank. Um, so in New York City, one of the top premier investment banks working on mergers and acquisitions. That mentor, I'm still

acquisitions. That mentor, I'm still close to him. I went and visited him, right? So he gave me access and that

right? So he gave me access and that access then landed me at Summit Partners. At Summit Partners, I did

Partners. At Summit Partners, I did phenomenal work for them. I deployed I I literally invested like 30% of that fund, a $5 billion fund. Like I invested that I sourced the deals that made them

the money behind that. I did really good work. And there was this moment when I

work. And there was this moment when I got into Stanford that I was like, "Oh man, like should I feel bad?" because I I know how this works. Like I only got in like yeah, I've had a ton of

accomplishments. I had a 3.95 GPA. I've

accomplishments. I had a 3.95 GPA. I've

worked at great places, but this white dude named Chad. Like, should I feel bad about this that I got into Stanford? And

and what I came to appreciate is like, no, I shouldn't feel bad knowing that the reason why I got in is because, you know, two people who are very close to the Stanford folks sent a text and a

nice letter of recommendation for me. I

shouldn't feel bad about that cuz they're not just doing that, right?

They're doing that because I did good work for them. I made their lives easier. I earned their trust. And so

easier. I earned their trust. And so

maybe I wasn't born into that access where my dad can send a text to Stanford and say, "Let my let my son in." But you can earn that by doing good work for the people who do have that access. And

they're they're so eager to help you um have that sort of accomplishment. So

that's how I think about access. And

it's part of when you know I got asked recently like what's your legacy you want to leave on the world? And I'm

like, you know, I'm like 33 years old.

But the way I think about it is like I want to give that that access that I've sort of like either been granted or earned over the last many years. And I

and I want to ensure that more people have access to that who who spend their their lives working with me and put in good work.

Dude, you're you're awesome. You are so cool. I think that um when I was

cool. I think that um when I was younger, I met this really successful guy named Scott Bellski who was u the chief product officer of Adobe and uh an amazing entrepreneur, maybe a bill

billionaire. And he used this word with

billionaire. And he used this word with me that I never heard before. This idea

he used um he said, "I'm going to invest in you and you need to be a steward of my capital." And I was like, I don't

my capital." And I was like, I don't know what is that word steward. I never

heard of that. It just like this idea that you need to be the vehicle that that protects and passes on like a little bit of greatness. That's kind of how I interpreted it. And you are that

person. So, um, my friend Austin Reef,

person. So, um, my friend Austin Reef, do you know Austin Reef?

He's the, uh, one of the Morning Brewers.

Started and sold the company for hundreds of millions of dollars when he was 30 years old. He was texting me about this new idea that he was working on or brainstorming. And I was like, do you think it's going to be successful?

He goes, it can be successful if I want it to be. And I love that because what you and him both said something very similar. you have this similar mindset,

similar. you have this similar mindset, but I find myself being around him and people like you and it's contagious.

Yeah. You know, I've thought about whether I should be I've I've tried to figure out whether my impact on the world is more narrowly focused on the people who spend hours, thousands of

hours with me working inside of Gruds or if I should have more of an impact publicly trying to relay some of this message. It's hard though, you know,

message. It's hard though, you know, like to relay all of this um these experiences that I've had in in a public forum that allows for millions to um to

learn. But you're totally right, Sam.

learn. But you're totally right, Sam.

Like, at the end of the day, why why was I able to build what I built? It's cuz I knew it was possible, right? Like I saw it done many many times by others. And

if I ever had a question, I could I could go ping those people. And so

network, experiences, awareness of what's possible. I think there's a maybe

what's possible. I think there's a maybe a different way to say what you just said. You know, the way you just said it

said. You know, the way you just said it was kind of like, hey, I got I was pretty fortunate that these things happened and I did my part, but they did their part. This happens a lot with

their part. This happens a lot with entrepreneurs is we sort of stumble and fumble our way to success. And then

afterwards, you can actually look back and realize like, oh, there it wasn't complete random. It wasn't complete

complete random. It wasn't complete chance. And in fact, you could recreate

chance. And in fact, you could recreate the conditions of success more reliably knowing what I know now. And so I would just point to three words that you just said. The first one is exposure. You

said. The first one is exposure. You

really can't imagine what you've never seen. Your brain won't go anywhere uh if

seen. Your brain won't go anywhere uh if you don't have any exposure to things. I

I I was talking about this with Ben, my business partner, about my kids. I said,

"My kids have never been exposed to so much in the world, right? Like we

literally keep going to the same resorts and I was like, they've never seen a third world country. They've never seen this. I I started bringing them to just

this. I I started bringing them to just do adult stuff with me cuz I used to do kids stuff with my kids. And now what I realize is let me just bring them along for life. And kids actually love it.

for life. And kids actually love it.

They like doing laundry. They like

cooking. They work out with me now in the gym every day. They like going with me to to meetings. They like, you know, they actually kind of enjoy that because they're getting exposed to new stimulus that they've never really seen before.

And even if they're 5 years old and they can't fully gro it, there's some part of it that just breaks some fence that they had around what the world is and it starts to poke holes and it lets new

things in. Growing up, I didn't know any

things in. Growing up, I didn't know any entrepreneurs.

I didn't know anyone in my entire family. My mom has nine siblings. My dad

family. My mom has nine siblings. My dad

has four out of all of them. There were

zero entrepreneurs. Every single one of them was an engineer. Like typical

Indian family. And so the the highest calling was you get a good job. What's a

good job? a six-f figure job that has health insurance. So that was all I

health insurance. So that was all I knew. I was all I was exposed to if what

knew. I was all I was exposed to if what was possible. And then my senior year of

was possible. And then my senior year of college, I took a class called getting rich. And in the very first class, she

rich. And in the very first class, she brought in a speaker and it was a girl who started a t-shirt company. And then

the next class, she brought in a guy who started his own hedge fund. And I just thought I looked at them and I said, "Why are these guys having all the fun?

This sounds awesome. Maybe I could do that instead." I was finally exposed to

that instead." I was finally exposed to the thing, you know, when I was 21 years old and it changed the trajectory of my life. Had I not had the exposure, it

life. Had I not had the exposure, it literally would have just not happened.

And so the first is exposure. How do you get yourself in a position to see new things um or help other people see new things? The second is access. And then

things? The second is access. And then

you the way I would put it for you is earned access cuz you said something very casual. You're like, I did good

very casual. You're like, I did good work for them. You know what? I bet if we peeled back, there probably is a lot there. I bet you overd delivered. I bet

there. I bet you overd delivered. I bet

you didn't get paid proportional to what you did and you didn't whine about it.

These are my guesses. You tell me if that's true or not. But the access is earned through showing that you're somebody who deserves greater opportunities and greater access and you

sort of delay the payoff of those actions and you just have faith that I'm going to just I'm going to kill it right now and I I trust that you know the ball will bounce my way over time and I don't need to immediately tit for tat measure

what I'm getting versus what I'm putting in.

Yeah, I think I I I think it's true and frankly I think you know I'm young. I'm

33 years old. I think about the impact I want to have on this world. I think it's that first one, exposure. How can I facilitate exposure to everyone, right?

Young young kids, how do they get exposure? That honestly, I think that's

exposure? That honestly, I think that's where my wife and I want to make an impact is making it possible through some some effort in the next chapter of my life to ensure that the random kid

who's 6 years old or 10 years old in a place that would never get exposure to this at least knows what's possible.

because if they know it's possible, maybe they'll go after it themselves every time.

Hey, can I let me ask you a question that um you might not feel comfortable answering. When you're wired hundreds of

answering. When you're wired hundreds of millions of dollars, what do you what do you decide to do with it? Where did you invest the money? And that includes like did you decide to give any away?

Yeah, TBD audit. But I one of the hardest things I have is I've thought about my my impact. Like it's the same as um I don't even know if I'll invest in other companies. And and it's not

because I don't believe it's like what's the next best use of a dollar.

It's going to it's going to take a lot to convince me that it's something other than what I can go after and do. And

that doesn't mean it's always business profit centered. Like I don't always

profit centered. Like I don't always have to make money, but like can I Sam go out and make make an impact on the world by taking my own funds and

building like something special out of it, right? that has an impact on whether

it, right? that has an impact on whether it's mentorship, exposure, or whatever it is. So, TBD, I mean, as you know,

it is. So, TBD, I mean, as you know, when when you receive money, you spend a lot of time thinking about deploying and you don't want to rush into anything.

But, but I would expect that the more meaningful um deployment of my capital is going to come through some personal effort in my life that I do to to make an impact.

So, well, first of all, can we let me ask a boring question? Where'd you

invest it? The the current money, where did you invest? Is it just boring index funds? Is it

funds? Is it well you you know uh there's a difference between signing and closing.

So you have to go through anti-regulatory. Uh so we've signed but

anti-regulatory. Uh so we've signed but the closing happens as soon as it's been approved by government hasn't the money's not been wired yet but the I don't know what that I I've not had a

dealsh Yeah.

My first acquisition they just Venmoed me.

Yeah. We've not I've not I've not dealt with the with the Department of Justice yet. So that's pretty cool.

yet. So that's pretty cool.

Ah, it's funny.

Yeah, there's a crazy there's a crazy story. You know the company Apploven?

story. You know the company Apploven?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. My my co-founder was the co-founder of Apploven at the time. So,

he's sitting next to me at the office and they signed this deal and I'm like, "Oh my god, you just sold they sold the company for I think$1.2 or$2 billion. I

forgot which what the number was, but one or two billion dollars." And I was like, "Wow, dude, you did it. You sold a company for a billion dollars." $2

billion. That's amazing. And I was like, "Should we go dinner's on you? What's

up?" He's like, "Dude, we haven't got the money. It's going to be like

the money. It's going to be like months." He's like if it's over I forgot

months." He's like if it's over I forgot what the number is 750 million a billion dollars whatever it is like literally like the government you know the way he put it was like it's going to sit on Trump's desk until he stamps it. The

crazy thing was they sold to a Chinese company so there was actually a lot of risk and so he didn't know this at the time. He thought he you know it's over.

time. He thought he you know it's over.

Well 9 months go by a year almost goes by and the deal is still not approved but they've been running the company.

They've doubled revenue in that year.

And so instead of waiting for the approval, what they did was they went and renegotiated. They're like, "Hey,

and renegotiated. They're like, "Hey, here's what the 2 billion gets you instead." And now it gets you 25%.

instead." And now it gets you 25%.

Instead of whatever, 85 100%. So they

renegotiated the deal because the business had grown. So it was the best thing that ever happened. And so they took a minority investment, got some liquidity, it kept growing the thing.

It's now it like it was a hundred billion dollar company in the last last year, right? So it went 100x since then.

year, right? So it went 100x since then.

A quick Google, so I haven't had time to read all this. I believe it's uh $30 million is the threshold where the DOJ has to 130.

You have to notify the DOJ and the FTC.

Anything north of $133.9 million.

Dear DOJ, I'm rich. What do you What do you

I'm rich. What do you What do you notify?

There's like an official form and then they they're just reviewing it as they should to make sure that it's not bad for the consumer.

Dude, that's cool.

Well, dude, uh thanks for coming on, man. And uh congrats again on on

man. And uh congrats again on on building something pretty epic. I

remember when I saw the product, it just seemed like, oh, that's it. Um and the best products actually are simple like that where the proposition is easy for the customer to understand. Um it it

makes sense in the world. It was almost like hidden in plain sight, I feel in a way. And uh you know, to your credit,

way. And uh you know, to your credit, you you ran with that, you acted on it, and you you built something pretty incredible.

Of course. Um thank you for having me on. My hope is that three years from

on. My hope is that three years from now, we're talking and you guys are like, "Geez, dude, we didn't realize there was that much ahead of you." Uh,

we've got so much this team wants to do.

And so, uh, eager to to show the consumers what we've got for them. New

products, new innovations, new fun, limited time offers.

What's the best thing on that shelf I should buy?

Um, so have you tried the lollipop?

We've got some products here that are launching soon, but have you tried our lollipop? That's actually

lollipop? That's actually I've only had the original. I I didn't even try anything else. I just got the original like subscription. That's it.

So yeah, you you may know this, but we've got Grunes, which is the comprehensive nutrition greens multivitamin fiber. We've got neutropes,

multivitamin fiber. We've got neutropes, which is a neutropics product. We've got

immune, which is like a almost like an immunity shot, like the 2 oz bottles, but in gummy form. And then we've got juiced, which is this one right here, which is like a pre- anything energy product. So I mean, we've got like 12

product. So I mean, we've got like 12 innovations in the pipeline. That's what

I'm saying. Like it's so exciting. We've

we've like done something so big, but like we're like maybe 5 miles into a marathon.

Good man. Thank you so much for coming on. You have an open invite whenever you

on. You have an open invite whenever you want. You're you're you're a wonderful

want. You're you're you're a wonderful guy. We're we're so happy for your

guy. We're we're so happy for your success and it feel makes us feel good to promote you. So, thank you for coming on. That's it. That's a pot.

on. That's it. That's a pot.