This is Boring But It’ll 10x Your Personal Brand in 2026 ft. Dan Koe

with you are the niche. People think that means like you're just talking about you all day. It's solve your own problems and sell the solution. It's improve your life and pass down the lessons. >> Today, we're, joined, by, Dan, Co,, writer, philosopher, entrepreneur, and one of the most influential minds in the creator economy when it comes to building a personal brand through clarity, creativity, and selfmastery. >> Get, out, of, the, mindset, of,, oh,, I, need, to

provide something super interesting or something super valuable and think of social media more as a note-taking platform. Dan obsesses over depth. The kind of depth that produces trust loyalty, and financial freedom. >> To, him,, the, real, flex, isn't, a, video, with a million views. It's an audience that actually cares about what you think. >> I, would, argue, that, a,000, newsletter subscribers is more valuable than 25,000 followers on social media.

>> To, Dan,, a, personal, brand, isn't, content, it's an experience. >> And, when, you, design, that, experience intentionally, people don't just watch you, they subscribe to your world. So if you think of your brand as like a smallcale Marvel cinematic universe, you can think of your newsletters as your movies. You can think of your products as your products or the action figures. You can think of your social media posts as the TV shows. In this episode, we break down the systems, philosophies

and long-term strategy that Dan would use to build a personal brand >> and, a, real, online, business, in, 2026. Let's get into it. All right, Dan, to start me off, tell me about your life motto, which is work less, earn more, and enjoy life. How did you come to that conclusion, and what does it mean? What does that mean to you? >> It's, a, good, question., I, haven't, gotten that one before which is funny, but it it came because it it was like the culmination of

principles from various books that I read over time. They all seem to converge on those three things, right? uh enjoy life is kind of obviously the pillar of that. That's the aim, that's the pursuit and everything should fall under that. So work less, earn more I kind of are or kind of the byproducts of that. So enjoy life is kind of like philosophy in general. How do you live the best life? Work less came from the book flow. It came from various people I follow online. Came from the book rest

by Alex Su Jang Kim Pong. And then I mean I guess a big theme throughout my entire childhood is like how do I earn more doing what I want to do? And so the crossover of those three things that being my motto or that being I guess my guiding light it shapes a lot of the decisions I make. So working 2 3 4 hours a day or depending on what season of life I'm in that could go up to 12 hours. It could go up further, but keeping that like 4 hours of focus work a day in my head really allows me to

notice what I'm doing wrong, right? Am I not doing the things that move the right levers? Am I doing the things that get results? If I'm working over 4 hours okay, I should probably reflect and look at what I'm doing and see if I can outsource that, see if I should outsource that, or see if I'm just doing a bunch of distracted work. What does somebody need to do to be able to get to the point of working four hours a day if they if they want to kind of live the

same motto, you know, that you're doing? Like, what do they need to put into practice? And I'm assuming that there's going to, be, a, time, where, like, you, don't just start by working four hours a day. Like, you have to put in a substantial amount of work to be able to get to that point. Is that correct? >> No,, I'd, say, it's, the, opposite, because think of the average person, right? Working a 9 to5, eight hours a day. They don't have four hours of work a day.

They can't start with that much, right? They have to start with 1 hour in the morning, 1 hour in the afternoon whenever they're best suited to do so. And the only way they're going to get out of that situation if they want to get out of a 9 toive job is if they do the right things during that 1 hour. And then if they can do that and use that one hour, potentially more on the weekends, but most of the time it's going to, be, an, hour., And, I, think, it should be an hour because if you can't

get out of your job with one hour of work a day, it seems crazy to a lot of people. But if you can't get out with one hour of lever moving work a day then once you like, let's say you quit the job and then go all in, you're starting on the wrong foot because you're going to just be trying a bunch of things that don't work for 8 to 12 hours a day just because you're trying to conform to what the popular work style is online and what's promoted as to what you should do.

>> Was, that, what, you, were, doing, when, you were working that full-time design job? like you would get out of work and like you I remember you you put out a video and you're saying how even at a 9 to5 like people aren't working eight or 10 hours they're realistically working like two to four I worked a 9 to5 I saw it I get it um you know you get two to four really, awesome, hours, and, the, rest, of the time people are talking maybe something >> has, happened, in, their, home, life, so, you

just never know like what an employee is going through so you'd get home and then you would just work in the evenings you'd moonlight and that's how you ended up getting enough money to be able to save and then take that leap >> kind, of, sort, of., I, mean,, when, I, really break it down, it's hard to pin down to like, oh, it was this block of work that made everything work. Um, I remember writing tweets cuz I started, well, I started social media on Twitter.

Freelancing before that was a different thing. But, uh, I remember writing tweets like an hour before I would go to bed, like well, like 15 minutes before I'd go to bed, cuz that's when my ideas came best to me. And I felt like I need to just have something ready to post tomorrow or else I'm not going to post it because I'm not in the habit of doing it. So it was like that was my deadline is I have to get this out before I go to bed. And that's not that much work. And

if I rate an incredible tweet that's uh what you would call a digital asset today, if that can get uh thousands to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands to millions of impressions and I can lead those impressions into a product and that product converts a very very very small percentage of those people, my income's replaced right? 15 minutes of work a day. Not that you should try to do it in 15 minutes of work of day, but that puts into perspective like, hey, it can be

done. And imagine if you spend 4 hours a day doing the right things. So when I was working uh the web design job, a lot of it was kind of just a [ __ ] job where the the first, let's say, month that I worked there, I had to learn the ropes. I had to learn the stack. I had to learn what they were doing. But once I learned that, I kind of just after I built like five client sites, I had these templates that I could just reuse and change the branding around. So I would

done. And imagine if you spend 4 hours a day doing the right things. So when I was working uh the web design job, a lot of it was kind of just a [ __ ] job where the the first, let's say, month that I worked there, I had to learn the ropes. I had to learn the stack. I had to learn what they were doing. But once I learned that, I kind of just after I built like five client sites, I had these templates that I could just reuse and change the branding around. So I would

procrastinate a lot of my work to the end of the day and then just like knock out what I had to knock out by copy pasting stuff left and right. But uh I didn't really work after the job because I just felt drained even though I wasn't doing much at it. And then I wasn't I didn't work before the job because I would stay up late because I felt like I didn't have enough time to do what I wanted during the day. I felt like my day was wasted just by going to work. So I was trying to save that by

staying up late and watching Netflix and doing all of these other things. But on the job it was a various different things. Like I would get there, I would scroll social media for a bit. I would watch YouTube videos. I would learn some things and then I'd spend maybe an hour, 2 hours like reaching out via cold email or uh different lead generation, customer acquisition methods that were a thing back then, LinkedIn marketing, etc. etc. Uh writing social media content towards the end of that

but that's kind of it. sometimes fulfilling client work obviously that most of the time I tried to stack that on the weekends but yeah it's hard to pin down to exactly like one specific time frame. >> If, someone's, listening, to, this, and, they are working a job that they want to quit and they hear you and they say or they hear you saying you just have to put in an hour of work and it's if it's going to take longer than that you're not working on the right things. How do you know if

you are working on the right things that's going to allow you to take the leap and really move that needle forward? >> Yeah., I, mean,, does, it, get, results? Right. So, for a lot of people, it's social media right now and for good reason. It may be agency work. It may be something else. If you create, if you make a social media post and it doesn't get the amount of impressions or likes or retweets or whatever it is that you want, then there's something that can be improved.

It doesn't necessarily mean that like you're doing something wrong. It means that what you're doing isn't getting results and you need to experiment with what you're doing until it gets results. Right? Something can be better. So something needs to change the next time until it gets slightly better results. And then you note the difference between the one that didn't get results, the one that did, and you're like, "Oh, okay. Now I'm starting to see why this worked.

Okay, let's integrate that. Let's make that a consistent part of this process." Then you start again. You try to get better results by incorporating other things. You study what other people what other people are doing to get results. You look up specific copywriting tactics if you're writing if you're actually writing the post. And you just slowly skill acquisition is really technique acquisition. You're not really acquiring the skill of copywriting or social media. You're stacking all of these

various techniques that compound into having the skill. Right? two people can have the same skill and they can go about it completely different ways and they can be considered both masters at that skill. So, in my opinion, to learn skills, you need to learn a technique. Like in Photoshop, if you're trying to create a very cool image, you may need to remove the background. So, you go and look up, okay, how do I remove the background? There's like 10 different

ways of doing that in Photoshop. So, you learn one of them, and then it's like okay, cool. Now I know how to do this. Now the next step, I need to change the color of the background. Then there's 10 different ways to do that. You learn one, you repeat that process, you have the image that you wanted to create. Now you kind of have the skill of Photoshop to an extent. You can do quite a bit because those techniques transfer over to almost every image that you're going to create in Photoshop. But

once you stack all of once you stack like 10, 15, 20 techniques within a specific skill, you can usually start to get really creative and get a lot of results with those things. So if you aren't getting results or you feel like you aren't making the most of your hour in the morning, just experiment with different techniques until you have that big picture overview that lets you make the tiny adjustments that lead to more results. What if someone has a really

solid business right now, but they have no personal brand, so they they're making good money with something and they want to get into this world of social media. What are those first three steps? I know you kind of briefly just touched on a few of them, but if you could talk to them, sit them down, what would you tell that person who's trying to make this leap and start posting on content for like 30 days? What's that sprint look like? >> Yeah., First, is

>> it, already, I'm, already, selling, something and I'm good at it. like someone's good at this thing. >> Someone's, good, at, the, skill. >> Yeah,, they're, good., They, already, have, a product, it's doing well, and they're like, I want to actually have an impact now. Maybe it's to drive more sales. Maybe it's to sell a book. I have no idea. >> That, actually, changes, things, a, lot because a lot of people that get into social media want to do something

completely different, right? Because so usually I go down the route of, okay what let's figure out what your content pillars are, right? You look at your search history, look at the books that you've read, look at the things that have impacted your life the most. What are the common interests there? What are the things you would like to talk about? The next step to that is like, okay, how do you make those interests interesting to other people? So, the people with the

skills and interests that they already want to monetize or the product that they want to just drive more sales to how do you make that a very important thing to other people? You need to learn persuasion. The reason the people with a product are already start starting at a higher level is because it really narrows down what you need to talk about in order to get more sales or more results, right? The people who don't know what to talk about, they're kind of all over the place experimenting until

something potentially works. the people with the product or the skill or whatever it is. You just need to figure out the two types of ways of talking about that skill or product that one is going to attract more people to your brand. You need to be exposed to new audiences which is typically going to be broad somewhat beginner or introductory level content to that thing. and two more of the valuebased uh very specific you're building authority. So growth based content, authority based content

and if you want to add on one more authenticity based content, those that's like the social media matrix. Those are the three things you really need to focus on. And you can pull each of those levers independently. If you need to reach more people, especially if you have a low ticket product, you're going to have to have a pretty wide audience or a large audience. Um, the way you find those growth oriented ideas is just look around at what's already performing, right? This is where you

kind of have to let your ego go because I know you want to do something that's so original. You want to do something that stands out. You have all of these things that you think are important, but the entire market might not think that. So, a very practical way I like to go about this is go to YouTube, look at let's say, three accounts in your niche that are just super popular, filter their videos by most popular, and then just jot down, pull out a notebook, take

a list of 20 videos that you could replicate. And that goes for any type of content. You don't have to do this on YouTube, but you just look at the title. Okay, that performed really well. Can I write, that, or, at least, spin, it, off, to shape the skill or interest that I'm talking about right now? And then you just write about that idea on social media and do what I mentioned earlier about uh iterating until you see results with that. And that's the growth aspect.

Now, in terms of the authority aspect you have to be okay with that not getting much engagement, especially at the start, because the sole purpose of that is to convert people to the product you're trying to sell. And that's really where your expertise is going to shine. I like to keep those things to either a newsletter or a free download and then I can just focus more on growth style content on top of funnel social media. So, I'm attracting this broad net of people. I'm writing things that are

getting a decent amount impression of impressions every month. And then once a day at least, I'm promoting that free download, that newsletter, that whatever it is that's going to then educate the people that want to be educated. And then I can promote off platform so I don't look like I'm when people visit my account, they're not they're not thinking, "Oh, this guy is just here to sell me on something." That's usually for the people that are interested. It only felt right that this episode was

sponsored by Stan. >> And, that's, cuz, Dan, Co, himself, has, a, Stan store. >> Dad,, you, heard, us, mention, it, later, on, in the show. But the easiest way to set up a digital product or sell anything online right now is with Stan. It's the top link in the description. I'm going to give you a few examples of what you guys can do with it. So, okay, we we have like one-on-one calls. You can set that up through Stan. It's a one-click checkout, which is massive. So, that

means more conversions for you guys. And if some of you guys already have digital products, it actually makes sense to put them on stand instead of your actual website because of the onetap checkout. >> 100%., I, mean,, it, makes, life, so, much easier. There's a lot of very big companies that do the one tap checkout. It's huge, dude. That is a massive thing that they have going on there. The other thing that I think is is massive with Stan, you can host like different links

on there. So, like on my on my Instagram link and bio for the pod, right? It's like you could subscribe to our newsletter, you could check out our YouTube channel, you can go check out our digital products. And it all lives kind of in this little ecosystem. It looks nice. It's very pretty. It takes 5 minutes to make. >> It's, like, a, menu. >> It's, like,, "Yo,, you, like, me?, Check, out everything that I have to offer." >> God,, I, got, the, steak., I, got, the, ribeye.

on there. So, like on my on my Instagram link and bio for the pod, right? It's like you could subscribe to our newsletter, you could check out our YouTube channel, you can go check out our digital products. And it all lives kind of in this little ecosystem. It looks nice. It's very pretty. It takes 5 minutes to make. >> It's, like, a, menu. >> It's, like,, "Yo,, you, like, me?, Check, out everything that I have to offer." >> God,, I, got, the, steak., I, got, the, ribeye.

I got the lobster. I got I got everything. You got mashed potatoes, the broccoli. You can go get it all. >> One, tap, checkout. >> One, tap, checkout., You, go, check, that, out. It's linked down in the description. Let's keep it rolling. >> Okay., You, brought, up, niche, and, I, want, to ask your opinion about cuz you talk a lot about generalization. You say that a lot of people actually talk about specialization and that's not the right way to go about it. So I'd like to get

your take on you are the niche when it comes to building a presence online building a personal brand and like what are your thoughts about that as far as generalization versus specialization and having a I guess niche but also being the niche if that makes sense. Yep. >> Dude,, niche >> the, So, to, define, specialist, and generalist, a specialist in the context that I talk about it is someone who thinks that the skill is the most important thing. So or or the niche, but

let's say web design that that's the only thing I'm going to talk about. That's the only thing I'm going to learn. I'm going to become a master at web design. The generalist on the other hand focuses on the vision or the goal and they learn and do anything that requires that is necessary of them to achieve that goal. So when it comes to niching down or you becoming the niche, you can focus solely on the niche or the skill web design and becoming an authority in that or you can zoom out of

it and you think okay what kind of lifestyle do I want to live? What's my ideal life now? How do I what do I have to learn and do in order to get there and how can I align my brand with that? Right? If we think of a if you think of like Shakespeare, right? He's the one who wrote the quote uh a jack of all trades is a master of none. And then many people forget the last part which is it's often times better than a master of one. So with that Shakespeare, you look at him and he's

like, okay, he's a he's a master playwright. That's his He's a specialist in playwriting. But what does he have to do in order to be a specialist at that thing? He has to he he learns so many different things from uh history to all of the interests or the human psychology that would go into his play so that he could make them rather realistic. He had to learn about the human body and medicine and stage craft. And there's an entire laundry list of things. the same

for a CEO like okay the CEO is going to go and tell you that this skill is the most important thing to learn when that CEO had a vision for the company and I mean in order to be a manager or a leader of any kind you have to understand the people on your team you have to understand the big picture of every single department in your company and what they're going on to do so on and so forth so with you are the niche people think that means like you're just talking about you all

it it's me me. I'm just putting out my what I like, what I dislike. When people hear that, it kind of just like makes their brain melt. So maybe there's a better way of framing it so that it's more uh palatable upfront, but that's not really what it is to me. It's okay here are here's there's a way to put this that's kind of eloquent. It's solve your own problems and sell the solution. It's improve your life and pass down the lessons. It's do it's take the things that are most important in

your life or the things that you think are most beneficial to others and teach people about them via social media content. Right? If you are selling something like web design or an e-commerce product or whatever it may be, that doesn't mean that you only have to talk about that thing specifically, right? That's not going to make or break your brand if you think clearly about it. You can talk about your personality. You can put out an opinion. You can talk about your

fringe interest that you think many people aren't many people aren't going to care about. And in my opinion, if you do those things correctly, you're only going to build a stronger and more loyal brand because the best brands have this sense of taste and personality to them. They're not just talking about the one thing that they sell. Is that coherent? >> Yeah., 100%., I, think, we, had, a, gal, comment on our last video uh and we were asking someone on the pod this and they were

like, "No, I think you should just do the one thing and I I disagree. I think that you should be we we think it's like a tea." So, you have this one thing that you're deep in and then you have the other interest. That's what makes us all unique, right? That's like why someone would follow you over someone else that might talk about the same thing, but they're like, "I really like Dan's topic on this and I also like how he does X Y, and Z." And she was like "I really

want to see like your plant. I've been wondering about it. Like that's what I'm curious about the plant. I'm like that's so funny that you remember that. We talked about that like a month ago, you know, and it's something that I'm deeply interested in, but it's what separates us from, you know, someone else or me from someone else. So, it's very it's very interesting when you're thinking about what to put out on social. Was that conscious in the very beginning for

you? Like when you were starting out were you like it needs to be one thing or were you just really throwing [ __ ] at the wall, seeing what stuck and then going deeper on that? or was it like I'm going to really give this a good hundred posts? What was your kind of philosophy in those earlier days? >> No,, this, is, a, good, insight. I think I found out pretty quickly or just thought about it that if I'm interested in it, someone else can become interested in it, right? They

you? Like when you were starting out were you like it needs to be one thing or were you just really throwing [ __ ] at the wall, seeing what stuck and then going deeper on that? or was it like I'm going to really give this a good hundred posts? What was your kind of philosophy in those earlier days? >> No,, this, is, a, good, insight. I think I found out pretty quickly or just thought about it that if I'm interested in it, someone else can become interested in it, right? They

people when they're scrolling social media, they're not just thinking like "Oh man, I'm here to learn about this specific skill from this specific person." and they're scrolling. They may not know what they're there. It's like a the attention lottery, the attention casino, right? They're kind of just there to see what sticks out to them. And if you can get in there and give them something that's valuable or novel that leads in a a good direction that isn't like destroying their attention or like

planting a virus in their minds or whatever that may be. with when I first started, I occasionally talked about web design because I obviously had to in order to fuel my freelancing service and then eventually my web design product, but I would also talk about self-improvement and emotional management and uh various uh things around philosophy and just things that I was reading because when an idea stuck out when an idea stuck out to me when I was reading something, I'm like

hm, I kind of want to share this because other people can benefit from it. And the other thing there that people may not realize is that if you attract someone from one of your, let's say, self-improvement posts or emotional management posts, that is a person that can probably be led into becoming interested in your main skill or interest, web design, right? Because when you're in the the value business or the self-actualization business or the improvement business or just doing

something good, you can benefit from anything that's going to help you along that path. And it's up to the individual to filter whether or not they actually need to take on that thing. like a person who is already deep in business and I start talking about web design they're probably not going to care about that, but they may care about the self-improvement or philosophy content and they may follow me because of that. And when I need something or even them just knowing that I am a web designer

they're going to refer me more people potentially because they like who I am and what I do. So, me only talking about web design would close me off to that type of person, which may in turn reduce how much business I get. >> What, would, you, tell, someone, who, feels like they don't really have anything interesting to talk about? Because I've heard you I've watched videos of you talk about this. You're like, you have a full 18 to 36 years of lived experience

and like you got to bring that into your content. So, what like if you could talk to somebody right now who's feeling like all right, I'm interested in this thing but I don't feel like I have I don't feel like I'm interesting enough to like share my opinions online or stuff like that. Like, what would you say to them to be able to get to the place of feeling confident enough to bring their personality through online? >> Yeah,, I, I, think, you're, underelling yourself. You

have a you have a very unique experience. It's like if you really think back and just think through how you interpret the world. When you study psychology deeply, you really start to realize this that how you perceive any situation is completely different from how someone else is going to perceive it. When you stack that up over every moment throughout your life so far that's your mind in a sense. It's completely different from everyone else's. So I I would get out of the

mindset of, oh, I need to provide something super interesting or something super valuable and think of social media more as a note-taking platform. Think of it as where you share ideas that were interesting or important to you from your own perspective. If you want to add fuel to that fire, share it from the perspective of your own story. Right? If I am struggling to write content or write a newsletter, I just think back to a time in my life, uh, well, one, I get

an idea that I want to write about, but if it's not as potent yet, then I think back, okay, where would this have come into play in my life? And then if I can integrate my own story into explaining that idea, then it it gains a completely new dimension. It gains the relatability dimension and the novel value dimension and people can still benefit from it. Another thing to think about here is how many times have you seen the same idea over and over again without even really

realizing it. Right? I love consuming fitness content. Fitness has been a big part of my life for the longest time. I still watch it today, but they just repeat the same [ __ ] over and over again and I don't care. I like it. Like I can be reminded of the fundamentals or the things that matter. And if I get one little tip or trick out of it, cool. I get to try something new and now I understand that. It's the same with anything, right? You listen to a specific artist because of their sound

realizing it. Right? I love consuming fitness content. Fitness has been a big part of my life for the longest time. I still watch it today, but they just repeat the same [ __ ] over and over again and I don't care. I like it. Like I can be reminded of the fundamentals or the things that matter. And if I get one little tip or trick out of it, cool. I get to try something new and now I understand that. It's the same with anything, right? You listen to a specific artist because of their sound

their the their specific way of making it. You listen to a song and you can instantly tell it's from that person but it's the same sound like you know it's them. You're just listening to it because you like it. It can be the same thing with a personal brand or creating content. You have this unique tone that you need to pull out of yourself and you will craft it over time just through practice. But that's why people follow you. It's like you're giving out good valuable

ideas from your own perspective. That's really it. >> I, mean,, you, think, about, like, Sam, Sulic, he's going to do bench, dude. It's the same [ __ ] I've watched it a thousand times. And I watch this dude do a 35minute video while I'm like eating lunch. I'm like, let's go, Sam. You're driving to the gym. I also drive to the gym. your hidden bench. >> Man,, it's, so, relatable. >> God,, it's, so, relatable., We're, kind, of the same in stature, you know? It's like

it's like very it's like it's like very embodying to like just kind of see that >> you, feel, like, you're, looking, in, a mirror. >> Yeah., Just, like, kind, of, like, I, wake, up and I'm like, "Oh, it's me and Sam right there going to the gym together." Yeah. >> Uh,, is, there, is, there, something, online that you see a lot on the topic of personal branding or just creating consistent content that you just absolutely don't agree with that you think is just utter [ __ ] that you're

seeing it. You're like, I I need to put a stop to this. I need to tell people that I think this is absolutely wrong. I want to say yes. I guarantee there's something that I've seen where it like hits me and I'm like, oh, that's wrong. Like, I need to respond to this immediately. I tend not to like I'm not a reaction account. I tend to stop myself from doing that because I realize that everyone has a point and I don't think people can lead you in the wrong direction. I think that you can continue

seeing it. You're like, I I need to put a stop to this. I need to tell people that I think this is absolutely wrong. I want to say yes. I guarantee there's something that I've seen where it like hits me and I'm like, oh, that's wrong. Like, I need to respond to this immediately. I tend not to like I'm not a reaction account. I tend to stop myself from doing that because I realize that everyone has a point and I don't think people can lead you in the wrong direction. I think that you can continue

you can continue going in the wrong direction because you don't realize it's the wrong direction. I think it's up to the individual to kind of take everyone's opinion in try them all and then derive truth from that. Right. I think the worst thing you can do in some cases is follow one specific person's advice law potentially make it, but probably not make it because you're missing the critical ingredient that leads to success, which is uh iteration. So, I do think it's helpful to really laser

in on one specific thing at a time until you practice it. You get the data points and then you know whether or not you know what works and you can integrate that. But then you move on to the next thing, right? You research a bunch of different things. You if you want to become an expert at a topic, you read five different books on it. You'll notice the overlapping patterns and then you can usually pull your own opinion from that. It's the same thing with when

you're trying to start a business, grow a business, whatever it is. Usually you're going to get the best results when you can articulate what you need to do on your own. Hope you're enjoying this episode. Real quick, want to let you know about an awesome free product that we got linked in the description. It's our personal brand kickstart. What's in it? >> Okay,, we, got, five, prompts, for, you., It's going to help you define your personal brand, get clarity, and start posting

content that really resonates with your audience. >> It'll, literally, take, you, less, than, 10 minutes and it's been super apparent with all the guests that we've had on our show. They have really strong personal brands and it's allowed them to scale their businesses. So, go check it out. Top link. Let's keep it rolling. >> Yeah,, you're, really, good, at articulating. I feel like that comes from Would you say that comes from just like how much you've put in the work of

reading and studying topics that you're interested in? Cuz I feel like after consuming your content a lot over the past couple days, I told Brandon, I go, I just don't think I'm reading enough. >> Well,, I, mean,, there's, not, a, lot, of picture books, so that's tough to deal with. Set myself up for that one. >> I, also, bought, Flo, because, we're, going, to Hong Kong in two days, and I'm very excited to read it. I've just I got like, dude, that's could be your start. It's an 18 hour flight.

>> You, know,, a, good, friend, would, have ordered two. >> You, know,, we're, going to, be, on, the flight. >> I, know., I, know., I, know., I, should, have bought a second. We'll go to Barnes & Noble and we'll get a few pictures as well as less work. >> Would, you, say, that, people, need, to, just read more and and consume more content as opposed to just doom scrolling on social? >> This, one's, tough., Reading, more definitely helps. If I were to peel it back to the one thing that has really

helped me the most it's

getting through or it's fully understanding one idea before I move on to the next. And sometimes I skip this process where I'll I'll find a really good idea or have a really good idea and then I write it down or um I think it's very just apparent that that's a good idea and then I don't do anything with it. With ideas that I'm really obsessed with, like the main idea from Flo or the books that I've read, I'll tend to like tell people about it. I'll tell my my

fiance will ask me like, "Oh, what did what did you learn from the book?" And then me trying to articulate it in my own words, I'll struggle to, but I can usually get it out. And that just like locks so much of it in my brain. After I do that, that's when I take to writing. So, uh, a very easy step is trying to turn that into a post for social media. That's kind of what I mean when I say social media is a note-taking platform is like how do I write this in a way

that I understood it that it was very impactful to me. The next step is like fleshing it out in the form of a newsletter cuz then you really have to understand it and you have to research opposing viewpoints. You have to research supporting points maybe stories uh statistics other things of that nature and then that further locks the idea into your head. Now, doing that over 5 years, extremely helpful because you repeat those ideas quite a bit. Um one thing I hear with my content, and

some people mean it as like a jab, is like, "Oh, I've watched all of your content. You just sound like you're repeating yourself." And it's like, I don't really have other ideas that I see more important than these, so why would I not repeat myself? It's the same thing with the music industry. like they repeat the same sound because the bass audience really enjoys that. If an EDM artist were to switch to country all of a sudden just for the sake of not repeating themselves

not many people are going to like it right? Because that's not what they're used to. So, uh it's it's a lot of coming across the right idea at the right time, really attempting to teach right? The protege effect. The teacher learns more than the student. So teach it to your friend even if they don't want to hear about it. Teach it to your wife, your girlfriend, your boyfriend whoever. And just try to articulate it in your own words without you can't look at the book when you do that. So even

better. And then three or four is try writing about it. That can be in a private journal, but if you're doing this whole social media thing, you might as well take on that creative challenge, right? This is the your chance to um try to make another person interested in your interest that may not be your main skill and that takes a good amount of finangling with how you're going to position the idea and how you're going to introduce it. >> Has, writing, always, been, a, part, of, the

process? And do you do it in a physical journal or do you do it on the desktop? Because I have recently started waking up earlier which is really new for me. I was always like >> 9:00, a.m., Bro, >> I, was, always, a, part, of, the, late, night crew and maybe that's because my thyroid wasn't working. I mean, that's a story for another day, but I was always like staying up till 1, 2 in the morning and like working like that. And I do feel a hell of a lot better waking up closer to

process? And do you do it in a physical journal or do you do it on the desktop? Because I have recently started waking up earlier which is really new for me. I was always like >> 9:00, a.m., Bro, >> I, was, always, a, part, of, the, late, night crew and maybe that's because my thyroid wasn't working. I mean, that's a story for another day, but I was always like staying up till 1, 2 in the morning and like working like that. And I do feel a hell of a lot better waking up closer to

when the sun is rising and like writing in the morning. I find myself much more um much more like in a flow state of mind when no one else is awake for that like hour in the morning. Uh, have you found that that's been pivotal for your growth as just an individual personal branding business? All of the above. And is it physical or digital? >> It's, mostly, you, could, I'd, say, digital. Yeah, cuz on my phone too. >> Um,, one, practice, that, I, love, is, going, on

a walk. Obviously, I talk about that a lot, but when you when you do go on a walk, try to jot down an idea like right as you do it because then that gets the water flowing. That like unclogs the faucet and then more ideas just come to mind related to that one. And then that's like my style of journaling, I guess you could say, but then that transfers over into content pretty easily. Um, the writing process in my eyes is like I just take ideas anytime anywhere. It's kind of a habit to write

a walk. Obviously, I talk about that a lot, but when you when you do go on a walk, try to jot down an idea like right as you do it because then that gets the water flowing. That like unclogs the faucet and then more ideas just come to mind related to that one. And then that's like my style of journaling, I guess you could say, but then that transfers over into content pretty easily. Um, the writing process in my eyes is like I just take ideas anytime anywhere. It's kind of a habit to write

them down and you do have to get into that habit. If you have an idea, force yourself to write it down. And then in the morning, uh, especially since I'm a writing based creator mostly. It's kind of my job. I sit down and then I look at all of the ideas that I've accumulated and then I try to create something with those. I'll take one idea, turn it into a social media post. I'll be like, "Oh this one's really good. Let's uh draft an outline for a newsletter next week."

So on and so forth. And then I'll spend a bit more time fleshing out the newsletter I have for that week. So it's mostly digital. I consider the type of writing that I do also to be journaling because a lot of my personal experiences are in it. So it's kind of like a holistic style of writing. I want to go back to what you were saying earlier about repeating yourself. And I think early on um when I got into creating content, I always felt like I had to have a brand new idea or like you

couldn't say the same thing again. And I feel like a lot of people probably have that same mindset of like I can't say the same [ __ ] I have to say something new every single time. But that's not actually the case. You just kind of like you say the same few things, but you repackage them. And I want to get your um I want to get your opinion about how you go about repackaging your ideas saying the same thing over and over and being like constant with your like

ideologies and what you're saying on social, but just repackaging them slightly as you continue to post more content. >> Yeah,, I, don't, really, have, a, system, for doing it. It's more so, okay, what I I tend to have a theme for my week and I try to make that theme something that has the potential to get a lot of engagement, a lot of eyes right? Because that's a big lever in anyone's business is just eyes. So, I'll have a theme this week. It's agency. And I have a newsletter around that

topic. And so I've talked about agency before. So I have to kind of think okay, how can I what can the topic of this newsletter be that incorporates agency but is still slightly different? Because the thing with a newsletter, why I like newsletters so much is one, they turn into YouTube videos. So think of it, if you don't want to write a newsletter think of it as outlining a YouTube video. It has to be a certain length right? So you can talk about only agency. You can break down what a what

topic. And so I've talked about agency before. So I have to kind of think okay, how can I what can the topic of this newsletter be that incorporates agency but is still slightly different? Because the thing with a newsletter, why I like newsletters so much is one, they turn into YouTube videos. So think of it, if you don't want to write a newsletter think of it as outlining a YouTube video. It has to be a certain length right? So you can talk about only agency. You can break down what a what

agency is, why it's important, how to cultivate it, or you can work in various other topics that are kind of connected. So, it's really difficult to articulate, but I watched a YouTube video the other day that was 3 hours long on the psychology of conformity. So, why people conform it goes really deep into the psychology of conformity. And I'm like, this kind of lines up with agency. Why don't I talk about conformity but package it under the agency lens that I know will

work? And that when people go through that then they're going to get this fresh look on agency and give them a deeper understanding of it. But I could only do that because I'm exploring different interests, right? I'm pursuing my curiosity outside of my writing and then incorporating that into uh the ideas that work really well for me under my brand. >> Yeah., I, also, think, it, goes, back, to, what you were saying about how like you just got to like have more experiences and

work? And that when people go through that then they're going to get this fresh look on agency and give them a deeper understanding of it. But I could only do that because I'm exploring different interests, right? I'm pursuing my curiosity outside of my writing and then incorporating that into uh the ideas that work really well for me under my brand. >> Yeah., I, also, think, it, goes, back, to, what you were saying about how like you just got to like have more experiences and

like go out and and bring stories >> and, if, you, feel, like >> like, if, you, want, to, talk, about, something again, you can just bring in another >> story, that, you, have, or, another, lived experience um and kind of like say the same thing but slightly different. I also want to talk about I want to talk about making money as a creator. So you're someone who like infamously has created a very successful oneperson business and you're making a lot of money doing it. If someone wanted to

follow in those footsteps and start making either $10,000 a month or they have the goal of making, you know $100,000 as a creator, like what pieces of advice would you have for them? Like where should they start and how do you go about monetizing as a creator? >> Yeah., Uh, to, preface, that,, uh, the oneperson business videos are like my most popular. So a lot of people see those first and assume like those were created like two or three years ago. I'm no longer a one person business. So uh I

have two teams for two different companies and I have an editor for my own thing. So I'm technically a twoperson business under like my personal brand now. But just prefacing so people know how I would get started. I like to think of it as like a a cascade of validating ideas. And this is assuming that you're starting from nothing, right? You don't know what you're going to do at all. The first thing is take your interests and just start posting on social media, right? You have

to get into that habit. If you want to be a oneperson business, you have to understand that you as an individual have never had as much power as you do now with technology, with the internet with AI. You can actually build a business as one person, right? You can reach millions of people. You can uh create some kind of a product that can serve millions of people. That's incredible. How you start with that and the base of that because you it has to be with social media because

that's where the attention is right now. A lot of people want to get out of that but that's where the attention is right? You're not going to go and start a business and acquire your customers on the radio. You might, but that's kind of a stupid decision and it doesn't seem very fun. So, social media, not the newspaper, not TV. Social media, it's accessible. You can start today whatever. Social media is great. Start talking about your interests. Start learning the skills necessary to

succeed on social media. If you want to study something specific, I would study copywriting, marketing, sales kind of all at the same time because you have to be able to articulate an I you have to be able to articulate an idea in a way that another person is going to be attracted to, right? You're not trying to sell people on a product here. You're trying to sell people on the idea and the conversion is them clicking follow or clicking like or clicking retweet. So

that's kind of what you're optimizing for when creating on social media. Now after a month, 2 months, 3 months of doing this, you should have a base amount of followers and from there you can look back and see okay which of my ideas were best, which ones did I enjoy writing about? Uh which ones could I see turning into a product or service? Then from there you take it and you turn it into some kind of high lever business for most people with a small following. I would say that

that's a high ticket service. It's just common. So an agency or freelancing or coaching, even though that has a bad rap nowadays to other coaches, not really consumers. Consumers still love signing up for coaching. So one big trap there. Don't uh don't get too wrapped up in what other people are in your industry are saying. Just focus on value for your audience and you'll go a long way. So, some kind of high ticket service because if you only have a certain amount of followers

selling a $50 product isn't going to take you that far. Unless you're extremely good at generating traffic right? If you're getting millions upon millions of views, go low ticket product and just sell the crap out of it and you'll make a lot of money. If you are growing at a decent pace, then you're going to have to probably do some manual outreach. You're going to have to get more strategic with your promotions and you're going to have to sell at $1,000 to $5,000 for what it is that you're

selling because it's you land one customer and you're close to replacing the average salary right? The average US salary. That's crazy. From there, now you have cash flow. Now you have a path to going full-time on this whole personal brand social media, online business thing. After that, it's like, okay, how can I productize this further? And that can go down in kind of a cascade because now if you have clients, you're getting results. You can flex those results and

you can turn your offer into something that can be sold to a wider audience. What I like to do personally here is turn it into some kind of a cohort-based course. So, this is kind of like a hybrid between group coaching while also having a curriculum but also only being open for a specific amount of time that bakes in the scarcity so you don't have to fake it right? A digital product, it's hard to say, oh, there's only nine products there's only nine left, cuz that's just

not true. But if there's an enrollment date where people can close and scarcity is a huge part of driving some form of conversion, that's awesome. It's just baked into the model itself. So cohort-based course, you have the option of pricing it still somewhat high. So reaching out to people, manual client outreach is still uh enticing to you and you can still do it if you're selling a $50 product. Like you're not going to want to go into the DMs or cold email people to make 50 bucks on that. It's

not true. But if there's an enrollment date where people can close and scarcity is a huge part of driving some form of conversion, that's awesome. It's just baked into the model itself. So cohort-based course, you have the option of pricing it still somewhat high. So reaching out to people, manual client outreach is still uh enticing to you and you can still do it if you're selling a $50 product. Like you're not going to want to go into the DMs or cold email people to make 50 bucks on that. It's

just not fun. >> Uh, but, also, it's, at, a, price, range, where people can join if they just go to the landing page and sign up. So, it's kind of like hybrid take there. Then you have that and then you can take it even further as your audience grows to uh something some other kind of a product. If you want to go the core seller route, feel free. If you want to go the software route, you can turn really any kind of educational or uh high ticket service into a software. or

if you want to go the e-commerce route and sell a complimentary product, you probably have the cash flow and audience to do so. Now, so that's awesome. What that allows you to do in my eyes is keep your work times low, right? This is where the 4-hour workday philosophy comes in where if you if you're only taking on high ticket clients, then you can probably squeeze most of your lever moving tasks within four hours. give or take. As you get pushed to going over that four hours, that's when you

start to think about, okay, now I need to productize. And then once you go let's say, the cohort-based course route, that's going to take a lot of time on your hands because you're able to serve more people, but you can also take on high ticket clients to fill up the rest of that time. Then once you surpass that four hours again, then it's like, okay, I should productize further into something else that is going to take most of the client acquisition and client fulfillment off of my hands.

Unless you want to scale those things further. Me personally, I was for some reason dead set on just being a oneperson business, probably because I didn't want to have to learn how to hire people or do any of that. So I didn't scale the service business any further. But if you want to do that, that's perfectly viable. Does that all make sense? Any holes need plugging there? >> No,, I, think, that, makes, that, makes, a, lot of sense. What would be one of the best

places to sell like a digital product? >> Like, a >> Is, Yeah., Is, there, a, Is, there, a, platform that you recommend for people >> right, now?, It's, just, Stan. >> God,, you, know, what?, Stan, Stan, is, the sponsor of today's video. >> Are, they, actually >> They, are, actually, the, sponsor. >> Let's, go. >> Yeah., Shout, out, to, John., Shout, out, to the, Stan, crew., I, think, it's, one, of the best places to sell a digital product. >> God,, go, check, them, out., Link, in, the

description. >> I, did, a, podcast, with, John, and, Vitali. >> Oh,, you, did? >> I', I've, been, to, their, office, in, Toronto a few times. >> Super, super, cool, people., Very >> We're, doing, the, one, with, uh, with, John right before Thanksgiving. But we're excited to talk to him. It's going to be super fun. That's amazing. What were some of the biggest mistakes and you go back and think about building out a digital product to save someone a little bit of a headache? I'll give you one of

description. >> I, did, a, podcast, with, John, and, Vitali. >> Oh,, you, did? >> I', I've, been, to, their, office, in, Toronto a few times. >> Super, super, cool, people., Very >> We're, doing, the, one, with, uh, with, John right before Thanksgiving. But we're excited to talk to him. It's going to be super fun. That's amazing. What were some of the biggest mistakes and you go back and think about building out a digital product to save someone a little bit of a headache? I'll give you one of

mine right off the bat was I first ever first ever during co I sold a product that people didn't want or need. And so I spent about eight months building something out and I'm like, "Hey, it's here. No one bought it." I'm like, "What was it?" It was um it was a program that was helping um videographers and I just did not survey enough people and then I later on did one on sports and it absolutely crushed. So it was more like a general like a general videography and I wasn't

making content about it at the time. I was doing nothing. I'm like, "Oh yeah, I know how to do this really well. Like I should make something about it." And it sold like 10 or 20 and I'm like this just is this is not this is not it. and I probably could have kept going with it uh and done really well, but I niched it down to sports and it absolutely crushed. Um, but that was Yeah. So, if you're thinking about building a product, you should survey people first.

That would be my p my one takeaway and piece of advice, but I'll let you go. >> Uh,, mine, would, be, pre-orders. >> Oo. >> Where, I, would, say depends how long you take to create the product, right? If it's like a big thing, you're going to have a lot of videos in there. You're going to edit the videos like you would a YouTube video. It's going to take a bit more time for uh actually I would say do this. Start with just an ebook and then expand it. So here's kind of the

process. You're going to start with an ebook. That should take no longer than a month, right? You're not writing a full book. It's not going to be crazy edited. Just start with the ebook. A month out. Just give yourself a month. Don't start writing it yet. Set a specific date a month out. You're going to build the landing page first. and write the copy for it first. That way you can kind of craft how compelling or persuading it is and what's going to be inside upfront. The the landing page is

process. You're going to start with an ebook. That should take no longer than a month, right? You're not writing a full book. It's not going to be crazy edited. Just start with the ebook. A month out. Just give yourself a month. Don't start writing it yet. Set a specific date a month out. You're going to build the landing page first. and write the copy for it first. That way you can kind of craft how compelling or persuading it is and what's going to be inside upfront. The the landing page is

like a persuasive summary of what it is that you're selling. Then, what you need to focus on is fulfilling on that landing page. Throughout that month you're going to practice promoting. And the thing here is don't get discouraged if people don't actually buy right away because they're less likely to buy a pre-order and they're only going to start buying in SWAS as it gets closer to that launch date. Now, that's going to be your initial like validation mechanism. So, you're going to promote

a lot until that launch date. And if it is not meeting your expectations a week before, like if you know that this thing just isn't going to sell, then cut it off. Refund everyone, start fresh, and then plan to do something else 2 to 3 months from now and spend a lot of time figuring out what that's going to be. If you are getting sales, great. Finish it before the launch date. Put it in people's hands. And now, well, one because of that, you're going to price it a bit lower because it's just an

ebook, right? It's something that you're just trying to validate. Then from there, you get testimonials, you get customer feedback, and then you uh turn it into a more full-fledged course maybe a cohort-based course, maybe something else that has videos, that's has expanded modules, whatever it may be. And at that time, you're going to increase the price and you're going to treat that as a second launch date because that creates another scarcity point where people are going to buy a

ebook, right? It's something that you're just trying to validate. Then from there, you get testimonials, you get customer feedback, and then you uh turn it into a more full-fledged course maybe a cohort-based course, maybe something else that has videos, that's has expanded modules, whatever it may be. And at that time, you're going to increase the price and you're going to treat that as a second launch date because that creates another scarcity point where people are going to buy a

lot in that week leading up to the price increase. Trust me on that. If you've never done that, it leads to a lot of sales. Now you have your course, right? If you want to expand it further, you can. But that's kind of like my thing is don't spend the 8 months trying like thinking it's going to do well and then it flops. Just validate as early as you can by starting small, expanding from there and giving yourself enough space to increase the value and increase the price. Right?

MVP first in many cases. for myself. Uh when I started my community that was pretty successful, Modern Mastery, it's closed now, but I started that at like seven bucks a month cuz I just wanted to get the first 100 200 people in so it looked active and I wanted to fill it up with content before I increased the price. Then when I increased the price those $7 people wanted to maintain their price so they didn't cancel. When I increased the price, more a lot more

people joined because they wanted to get in at that price before. Then as more things got added to the community, I would do that every 3 to 6 months is have like a big promotion for the price increase. A lot of people would join and it kind of lock people in at the lower level and if they didn't find value they can cancel and they probably wouldn't come back anyways. But I see a lot of people, they're like, "Okay, I'm going to start a paid community." Boom. $99, which is fine. That's a decent

price, but you're not giving yourself any wiggle room. If people don't find the value in it and someone joins at $99, then you can't decrease the price. You can't test anything else. The only way you can go in this product game is like up in price, right? If you go down then you're doing a disservice to everyone that's bought before. So, you just literally can't do that. So give yourself a lot of runway because you think you a lot of people are telling you to increase your prices. So people

start at the high price but they need to start low and then increase because it's going to lead not only to a lot more sales but a lot more loyalty and you just feeling confident that you're providing a lot of value for the price. Do you think a creator needs or should have something to sell from the get or do you think it's put some time in build an audience and then craft your offer? >> Either, way,, but, having, something, to, sell absolutely helps with clarity and it

gives you something to work towards. A lot of people that start and aren't being paid for it or don't that have the potential for being paid for it, they either tend to burn out and quit or they go on to be huge creators, but then they can't monetize their audience because they haven't focused on that at all. They launch something and then their entire audience turns against them because they're like "Oh, I thought you weren't going to sell anything." So, I would say start selling in from the

get-go. make that very apparent to the people that are going to follow you just by how you speak, how you promote, so on and so forth. That comes with the territory. But it also if you don't know what to write in terms of ideas or what type of content to create, you always have a fallback. If you can always go to whatever product or service you sell, take an idea from that and then turn that into a piece of content and you know that it's leading directly or indirectly to more sales.

get-go. make that very apparent to the people that are going to follow you just by how you speak, how you promote, so on and so forth. That comes with the territory. But it also if you don't know what to write in terms of ideas or what type of content to create, you always have a fallback. If you can always go to whatever product or service you sell, take an idea from that and then turn that into a piece of content and you know that it's leading directly or indirectly to more sales.

So, it's a very you you have that feedback loop. >> You, also, brought, up, your, newsletter, and I think you have one of the best newsletters out there. I also saw that you have like over 180,000 members of your newsletter which is absolutely insane. Can you talk about newsletters why they're so important, how to do them properly and why they're so important to be able to sell because people on social media like they're not really in a buying state. It's really hard to kind of

disrupt, especially if you're selling something high ticket. So, if you could go into the importance of a newsletter and how to do it properly, I'd really appreciate it. >> This, can, be, really, long,, so, bear, with me, but let's lock in. >> I'm, ready,, dude., Get, your, pen, and, paper. Get your notebooks out, ladies and gentlemen. >> Okay., Why, a, newsletter, is, important?, It is owned distribution. Sure, it's on a platform like Substack or Beehive or

Kit, but a social media platform. You're kind of at the whim of the platform. If you get banned, you don't take your followers with you. If you get banned from a newsletter, you can download your list and you can transfer over to another platform. Second thing, it's long form. As much as people love short form and the growth and virality that comes from that, I would argue that a thousand newsletter subscribers is more valuable than 25,000 followers on social media

just in terms of how much they actually want to hear from you, how much they're going to buy from you because they care about you and will benefit directly from your products. And two, time under attention. So, James Clear, you've read his book, Atomic Habits. If you hear the word habits, you immediately think of James Clear. Like, he owns that word of all things because you spent time with his ideas. He wrote a bestselling book on it. A newsletter isn't a book, but

it's much longer than a 60-second post on social media. It's going to be 5, 10 15, 20 minutes of reading time. And the more newsletters you have, the more times people spend with you. And the more people are likely to uh for your ideas to pop up in their head as they're going about life and the more likely they are to trust you, which is going to be a big factor when AI starts coming even more into play and they're going to buy from you. In terms of how to build

the newsletter, I think I have a unique take on this. This ties in with sales funnels and everything else. My entire sales funnel is my newsletter. I see it as more of a content ecosystem and you building a world of ideas and topics for people to explore. So if you think of your brand as like a smallcale Marvel cinematic universe, Marvel has uh the Avengers, it has all the different comic book, it has movies then it has action figures which are the products and it has various lore and

other spin-offs, spin-off TV shows here and there. So you can think of your newsletters as your movies. You can think of your products as your products or the action figures. You can think of your social media posts as the TV shows. With that, that gives people so much to binge watch. They have something to go to after the fact. With a traditional salesunnel, not that the purpose of it is education, it's sales, but education leads to sales. So, if I just give

people this entire library of content that I build over time, takes time, then I'm much more likely to gain a lot of their trust. So that's the first thing is it takes a lot of time and effort to build, but one newsletter, one YouTube video can be perfectly fine. The newsletter is like my highest priority. So I spend about an hour in the morning on that and then the other hours like on social media content and putting that on all different platforms, but the

newsletter gets turned into the outline for my YouTube script. So when I film YouTube videos, I just have the newsletter pulled up. I read a sentence I read the section, and then I try to articulate it to the camera. And for certain ideas that I don't want to mess up, I just read it off the script, and we put a text screen or B-roll over that. Makes the editing process super simple. That also gets posted as a podcast. So if you're wondering if people will care

about that, it being the same content refer back to us talking about repeating yourself. People just like consuming in different mediums. Uh, and a lot of people are only going to consume in one medium. So, it's great. Where that comes into play with being a salesunnel is that in my newsletter, it's kind of like a process for me to link my offers. Usually, just two links. So if I have a digital product, I'll include that in the middle. If I have uh, let's say, a service or freelancing

service, I'll link that at the bottom. It doesn't really matter where. It's wherever you can tie it in. So, if I have a section that has anything to do with writing, then I'm going to link to our writer, right? And that just naturally follows into the YouTube videos cuz when I look at the script then I just say that to the camera and the links in the description. So, now I have two points where people are potentially going to pay me for what I do. Now, in order to grow the newsletter,

a lot of people go the lead magnet route, which is great, but if your newsletters are really valuable, each one of them are a lead magnet. So, now you have two things. You have the newsletter as a lead magnet if it's valuable, and two, you have your offers promoted in there. So, it's kind of like a indirect sales page on social media. I've gotten bad at this recently, but in my prime, you post the newsletter once a day under a social media post. So, I have this reminder in my calendar. It's

at like 9:00 a.m. where I'll go to my Substack. I'll well, first I'll look at the social media post I had for that day. Let's say one is on the topic of focus. It's like, okay, I've written a bunch of newsletters on focus. Let's go find one. go to my Substack, scroll down, find one about focus, reply to that tweet, and be like, "If you want to read more, go here, link it." Boom. They connect to one one another. Uh, people go to that. People read it. They're very

likely to subscribe if they liked it. So, that's how I gain newsletter subscribers and they see my products or service. So, they're somewhat likely to buy as well. And since they're on the newsletter now, they're going to get the other ones and they're going to be quote unquote remarketed to because my products or services are going to be in there. So now for my entire salesunnel all I really have to do is stay consistent with content. I have to post on short form social media. I have to

write my newsletter once a week. I have to create the YouTube video and link everything in the description from products to newsletters. And then once a day, I need to paste uh a relevant newsletter to the topic I was talking about on social media that week. And that's kind of it. >> I, love, it., I, love, it., Selfishly,, what platform are you using for the newsletter? Is it Substack? And it's free correct? >> Yeah,, Substack. >> And, can, you, can, you, do, the, can, you, do

the tagging and whatnot? Like if you had a list that was like, "Oh, someone got in from over here." Can you do that or no? No, I can't do that. >> No,, that's, the, unfortunate, thing, and that's why I put it off for so long cuz Substack seems great, right? They have the social media aspect now and I started on Twitter. So, I'm good at writing the short form written posts. So, those get a decent amount of engagement for me and it's a way to grow your newsletter. Um, but they don't

allow the automations, they don't allow the tagging. I would go with Beehive if you want to do that. Um, but for my quote unquote content ecosystem, since I'm not really focused on the automations, it's more so what I just went over >> then., Yeah,, it, makes, a, lot, of, sense, for me. Yeah. I feel like you're at a benefit though being a writer like cuz your newsletters are long and I feel like most people >> there, there's, people, that, are, doing, it shitty like they just get your email and

like every time their newsletter it's just like >> hey, buy, it >> a, couple, sentence, and, then, they, [ __ ] link it. They're not actually providing any value. But I think if you really do take the extra time and effort to think of the newsletter as like a separate piece of content that you can then repurpose into other pieces of content but like the fact that it's your highest priority, like it allows you to repurpose that content and have it be an actual piece of content as opposed to

just like I'm getting another [ __ ] email from so and so trying to sell me something. >> Yeah., Yeah., People, look, forward, to, it. Um, but you can't you can't force it to be long. It's really hard to force it to be long. Like when I'm outlining it sometimes it'll be 2,000 words, which is still long for a newsletter. Sometimes it'll be like 5,000 6,000 just because like I have a lot to write about that thing. Like ideas just coming start coming to mind and like I'm not going to

stop myself from writing about it if it just comes out. Uh, so the the magic of newsletters is in the outline. Absolutely. It's one the topic or title same with YouTube, but also writing an outline at the start of the week, right? I usually don't just go straight into writing the actual newsletter like stream of consciousness. I'll outline five bullet points and then as I go on my walks, as I listen to other things that kind of becomes a magnet for ideas where

I don't know if you've experienced this it's kind of just how the brain works. When you have a goal or a project, you tend to notice things that help you do that thing well where like if you have an idea to start a business and you're in a conversation with a buddy, the thing that is going to stick out to you most in that conversation is the idea that's going to help fuel your business. And then you tend to write that down. You're like, "Oh, that was perfect." And

then you go and implement it. So, I kind of fabricate that process by having the newsletter outline so that whenever I'm listening to something, having a conversation, it's like, ooh, that idea definitely isn't the topic I was writing about, but it's a really good idea and I could tie it in. So, with my newsletters, I really focus on idea density. That's like how I grade my own content in general is how many dense good ideas are people being exposed to throughout this newsletter. And a lot of

the times my best newsletters are usually like I don't sit down and write them all at once. It's like I have one idea, I pop that in somehow in the newsletter and then I expand on it a bit and it and then the same thing happens over and over. So, the newsletter kind of writes itself when I really focus on the outline for that week cuz I'm just pulling a bunch of these ideas together like Legos to create something very unique that people aren't expecting, but I title it as something that could

potentially go viral, right? So, it's like it's not clickbait. It's legit bait because I am delivering on the promise but definitely baiting to get into that broad audience, but people like it because I'm exposing them to something new. They learn something new and they're like, "Oh, I never thought about it that way." So, that's the newsletter. >> We, need, more, legit, bait, on, social, media. >> I, was, going to, say,, "I, never, heard.", Put that in the comment right now some legit

bait that you've seen this week. >> You, have, a, ton, of, great, ideas,, it, sounds like. I mean, you're you're pulling them from books. you're pulling them from different YouTube videos that you're seeing in different places, whether it be a newsletter that you also read Twitter and whatnot. I think creators also believe that they they need more ideas. You you've you've said this many of times that you think they actually need better filters, but what does that

mean in practicality? What does it mean to have better filters for your ideas and how how can someone implement that? >> Yeah,, that's, kind, of, like, the, newsletter or the project or whatever it is. Uh if social media or writing content is your filter, then you're just going to notice a lot of things that may go viral, which may work. But the more unique you try to make your newsletters or uh the businesses you're working on, the products you're building, that's kind of

your filter for learning. For those that struggle to come up with ideas I it's can go either way. The solution is either to just overwhelm yourself with more good ideas until one sticks out or to just cut yourself off. Do like a small scale dopamine detox for 3 days. Just be okay with boredom and let your mind get back to its natural state of having those great ideas. And with that, during that boredom, try to implement some reflection, right, on your past experiences because the best

ideas are just ones that you can pull out of everyday moments. Like right now this is really the skill of becoming a content creator is can you pull an insight or a great idea out of this moment that you're in right now? like there is probably something within the last five minutes that we could take and turn into something that would go viral. A lot of people don't think that's possible in their day-to-day life because they think it's just boring. But if you really think about it, there is

something that you can observe. There's something you can look into that sparks one idea. Like if I look at I have a tripod sitting over there. If I look at that and I just start questioning how was that made? Why was it made? Who made it? What's the manufacturing process? Does a camera go on that? Yes obviously. Okay. How is the camera made? Who uses the camera? What are they filming with the camera? Like you just continue going the down these rabbit hole rabbit holes of questions. You pick

anything as your starting point. Your phone, the screen, the leaf outside whatever it is. You'll come across something that can turn into content. So, it's really about thinking, right? And a lot of people don't do that very deeply today because they tend to get distracted before they can reach the next question. >> Brother,, I've, been, hijacked, by, this thing right here. Okay. I went I was I was just on a hunting trip for like 5 days in the Idaho wilderness and

obviously no phones. I'm just sitting in a hole for like 12 hours one of these days. And I can't I had a journal and man, if I I've never filled more pages in that damn journal cuz I was so bored. I was like, "This is so boring." the elk are asleep. Like what the heck is going on? And >> like, 50, pages, like, I'm, so >> say, how, many, times, see, how, many, times you write it. No, but I I felt like I had so many great ideas and I feel like I came out of it so rejuvenated and

>> really, just, rethinking, how, hijacked, my attention was from the moment I woke up to the moment I went to bed. Uh and I have started this last week and I I'm I'm so guilty of this. I'm not going to lie to you guys. I [ __ ] check my phone in the morning. I wake up and I [ __ ] scroll, dude. I scroll. >> You, too., You,, too, >> dude., I, scroll. >> I, I, fall, in, and, out, of, it, yet. >> God, damn, it. >> Makes, me, feel, a, lot, better., We're, not out there. Okay. I thought you were

trying to tell me. Anyways >> the, last, week, I, consciously, have, picked up the death machine and set it back down. And I'm like, you're my [ __ ] I [ __ ] got you this week. And it's been a process. But it's crazy because I I really want you all to think about this when you wake up. I mean, dude, it's like there's a magnet on my hand to grab the phone and it's immediately Instagram cheap dopamine. It's the first thing I go to. It's our YouTube analytics. How

many subscribers do we get overnight? What is this at? What did the last video do? What are what are we at in the last hour? And it's ridiculous. Instead, for the last four or five days, and I'm not I'm, you know, I'm new to this, okay? I'm going to mess this up in the next few days, but I'm telling you guys what it's worth. >> Couple, days, left., couple, days, left, of, to make this a seven-day sprint to to wake up and just like pop out and look at my plants and be like, "Holy [ __ ] okay

we're here. We're having a good morning. It's calm. It's quiet." And that has changed a lot. It's it's like really helped me, I think, get in a more like I notice I have more ideas in that morning space. You mentioned though something I want to go back to about virality and you're talking about how you're thinking about these different topics and you can look at it and you ask all these different questions. What is something that you've noticed about the content

we're here. We're having a good morning. It's calm. It's quiet." And that has changed a lot. It's it's like really helped me, I think, get in a more like I notice I have more ideas in that morning space. You mentioned though something I want to go back to about virality and you're talking about how you're thinking about these different topics and you can look at it and you ask all these different questions. What is something that you've noticed about the content

that does go viral? I've studied your posts over the last month as we were thinking about even having this conversation and I've pulled a lot of your outliers um and it's very interesting to me what does stick out for for those posts that end up getting half a million plus views on YouTube. What do you notice about them that you can tell our our listeners today that they can pull into the things that they're doing? Because it's a skill man, and it's possible. Like someone

someone we were chatting about the other day is like, "You can't promise virality." And I'm like, I think a guy named Jimmy, Mr. Beast, can promise virality. You know, I think there's certain people, Orion Tran, it's like there's something there inherently that makes us want to keep watching and gets these million plus people to be interested in in the topic. I think there's plenty of people that we can all pull, but I'm curious what your thoughts are.

>> Yeah,, I, I've, actually, mapped, these, down. >> I'm, pulling, something, up. >> Okay., Yeah,, I, wrote, a, newsletter, on this. I wish I could just articulate them off the top of my head. I call it the value equation, right? It's like whenever I don't know what to write about, I'll tend to try I I'll have an idea and I'll try to break it down into like these different categories. So the first three is problem. So I mean if you've studied copyrightiting, you know

like the big problem that's what you start with. That's very attention grabbing. That all of these are attention grabbing. the problem. What is the big problem? Why does it relate to other people? Take the idea you have even if it's weird or something esoteric or very like poetic. Ground that in a relatable problem. That's a great way to start any newsletter, any piece of content is just start with the problem. Goal, obviously the opposite of that. What's the desired outcome? People love

desired outcomes. Process. So from problem to goal, what are the steps that people can take? The more unique those are, the more you actually think them through. Like, think of the goal. How do you start a business? Okay, that's an overdone topic. How would you start it? Is there something unique and novel you can throw in there that makes people actually pay attention to it? Uh, the next is concept. So how can you take a concept that has done well before and repackage it as your

own? The oneperson business is a concept, right? They the soloreneur freelancer, whatever company of one, you take the one person business and it gives people this new way of thinking about something that's talked been talked about millions of times before right? And just reframing and giving people a positioning an idea so that you can teach it well. Proof, social proof obviously that's pretty sticky. Risk reversal. So, how to start a business without working 12 hours a day. It's like the

own? The oneperson business is a concept, right? They the soloreneur freelancer, whatever company of one, you take the one person business and it gives people this new way of thinking about something that's talked been talked about millions of times before right? And just reframing and giving people a positioning an idea so that you can teach it well. Proof, social proof obviously that's pretty sticky. Risk reversal. So, how to start a business without working 12 hours a day. It's like the

risk of working 12 hours a day. You reverse that. Pain points similar with problem benefits similar with goal. And then level of awareness. So in marketing there's uh unaware, problem aware solution aware, product aare, very aware. And you on social media you usually have to target between one and three. So between unaware and solution aware. So I usually incorporate a lot of problems or pain points to make them aware of a problem. In my newsletter, my introduction is usually for the problem

aware or the unaware and then I lead them into the solution which is typically the step by step the concept whatever it is and then at the end if I want to promote something while they're aware they're more likely to buy. Now, all of those things if you wrote those down can be or just search the value equation Danco on Google and you'll find the article. But those are kind of the building blocks for my YouTube titles. So, how to learn anything 10x faster than anyone else.

That's usually that's a process, right? a novel process that I named uh the oneperson business model, how to productize yourself. That's the concept and the process together. Um there's a few others, but if you look through really any YouTube video, you'll tend to see that it's a mixture of those things strung together into some kind of narrative. Was there something in your journey, whether it's um a system that you implemented into your content creating process or a framework that you

implemented that really made the difference for you as a creator and allowing you to monetize your work and your writing? Like, is there something that you implemented that was like "Holy [ __ ] this is a huge needle mover and it really made a big difference." >> It, was, the, newsletter., Not, to, sound, like a broken record, but like the content ecosystem of like, oh the newsletter I can post to YouTube. Like that can just be the script. I'm over complicating this too much. I think

people won't like it because it's the same content. But if I were to read a newsletter and watch a YouTube video on it, I could choose between either or I could read both. And repetition is very helpful with learning. So why wouldn't I do both, right? It's a different style learning mechanism but that gave me like the the oomph to write a newsletter consistently, which a lot of people don't do because they think it's kind of useless or only so many people are going to see it or it's only

going to go out once. But if you use the content ecosystem and you link it under your content every day, then a lot of people are going to see the older newsletters. And since it turns into a YouTube video, you're more likely to put a lot of time and effort into the newsletter. So, it's just this circular thing. And I I guess the big thing there is that long form is one so much more fun and meaningful to create, be it a podcast like this or a newsletter or YouTube video. you feel

like you're actually helping people, but then the rewards you get from that in terms of trust, money, anything else brand deals, whatever you want to do it's just so much more. So, if you can kind of create this weekly system that not only incentivizes you to write the newsletter, post the YouTube video, but uh it makes it fun. Then that's like the big insight is really focus on how to integrate long form into your workflow. Especially if you started on social

media and kind of got stuck in that like reals, likes, followers trap. >> It's, something, that, I, think, I, think that's something that a lot of people get stuck in is that that cheap dopamine hit, man. Like I was explaining that I was explaining it a little bit earlier. It's a tough little game to break out of. >> Yeah., one., So,, I have like big hopes for what I'm working on right now. But if I were still a solo business or uh if I really wanted to give myself a challenge, I feel like a

lot of people sleep on writing, but then you look at Justin Welsh makes more than enough money only by writing. Doesn't create YouTube videos. He's on like he's been on like a few podcasts, only newsletter, only Twitter only LinkedIn. >> That's, it., And, he's, doing, great., A, lot of people think that they have to create the reels, they have to create the YouTube shorts, they have that's the editing alone on that can get very time sucking. You can just write and you can

build an incredible business just based on the writing. Like if I wanted to put myself up to the challenge, just stop posting on YouTube. Don't post reels. only post written content across all platforms. I definitely wouldn't go to zero. Would it be as effective? Maybe maybe not. But I could still build something great. >> The, most, viewed, 505, podcast, is, by someone who doesn't do any social content and just write Seth Goden Master of Marketing.

>> I, remember, I, remember, during, the, pod, we were like asking him about that. He goes, I don't need to be on Instagram or on this. And it's really interesting because after we were chatting about it I was like, yeah, but Seth isn't of this. He's not like, you know, he's not a younger guy like us, but I'm like dude, well, it kind of shows. We have the most viewed podcast ever by far. It's like 140 something thousand. Uh and it's it's amazing because Yeah, he's

right. He doesn't need to. And he's like my >> my, ideas, and, what, I, do, just, needs, to, be remarkable. He's like, I don't need to sit and think about something that's cheap and small. I can spend a year writing a book and put out amazing thoughts that I think will actually change someone's life and I can put my focus into that and I think I'll be really successful. And I was like I mean we were debating it after >> I, know, I, still, am, debating, it.

right. He doesn't need to. And he's like my >> my, ideas, and, what, I, do, just, needs, to, be remarkable. He's like, I don't need to sit and think about something that's cheap and small. I can spend a year writing a book and put out amazing thoughts that I think will actually change someone's life and I can put my focus into that and I think I'll be really successful. And I was like I mean we were debating it after >> I, know, I, still, am, debating, it.

>> I, I, mean, I, know, I, think, I, think, this, is the the quickest way to see success for your ideas to manifest into whatever it is that you want. >> When, it, comes, to, your, writing,, are, you using AI to like help you flesh out your ideas in any way? Are you going on a walk? You're writing down some new ideas. Are you talking to ChatGpt or Claude to help you flesh out those newsletters? Or are you just [ __ ] old school being like, I'm a write I'm a writer. I'm going to spend an hour

writing this myself. Are you using AI in any way, shape, or form to like help you with your newsletters? >> Uh,, yes., It, really, depends, where, it depends on the requirements of the newsletter. So, if I need to research a good amount, then I usually tend to use AI now because it's just so much easier and I can get what I need to get a lot faster because I can prompt it specifically as to what I want. In terms of idea generation or writing, I have tried I've never posted

anything that is written by AI, but I've tried to get it to replicate my writing. It's never gotten exactly where I want it to be. uh but that taught me a lot about how to use AI in general. In terms of idea generation, I have created various thought partner prompts that I create in a way that questions me in the right direction. Right? It doesn't give me the idea. It makes me come up with it on my own. Now in terms of social media posts, something that I find very helpful is I've taken the

patterns of all of my best social media posts, I put them into this huge mega prompt and now whenever I create a newsletter, I pop it into that and it generates like five >> outlines, they're, called., But, the outlines have kind of everything I went over in that value equation list, but with a few other things like the core paradox, the key quotes. It has the big problem, goals, pain points, so on and so forth. So, it's less about actually writing for me. It's giving me

the the like creative building blocks to have my own idea. So that's kind of my frame is I want it to prompt me to have my own but I have definitely felt the effects of like relying on that too much. And so once I noticed that, like right now it's just pure writing because I feel like I have to get back to just being able to generate stuff myself. I don't know if that's because of AI or because like a stressful period in my life or something else that could cause that, but either

way, when that happens, I tend to just like peel back, go back to the Neandertholic basics. >> And, you, feel, like, a, lot, of, people, are relying too heavily nowadays with AI. Like it is so easy to type out an idea that you have and it could [ __ ] write a full newsletter or a full script. Um, and I feel like it's it's made people really lazy. Um, it's really [ __ ] cool. Like, it's it's insane to see what something like chat can give you and produce, but I feel like I don't

know. It's going to make people lazy and uh you almost feel like the idea isn't fully yours because it's like you used AI to like help you do it and like make the decisions for you. I I'm curious also to hear about how you prompt it to like question you because chat is very like >> dude, just, kiss, his, ass. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I, better, get, mad, at, him,, dude., Crack, the whip on the guy. Knock it off. >> Yeah,, dude. >> Dude,, you're, so, smart., Shut, the, [ __ ], up.

know. It's going to make people lazy and uh you almost feel like the idea isn't fully yours because it's like you used AI to like help you do it and like make the decisions for you. I I'm curious also to hear about how you prompt it to like question you because chat is very like >> dude, just, kiss, his, ass. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I, better, get, mad, at, him,, dude., Crack, the whip on the guy. Knock it off. >> Yeah,, dude. >> Dude,, you're, so, smart., Shut, the, [ __ ], up.

>> I, do, think, over, the, next, 5, to, 10, years, how we view AI is going to be vastly different. It's just going to be an integrated part of everyone's workflow. But how people use AI is going to determine whether they get results or not because what you put out, especially over time you still have to discern discern and choose what it is, right? Like it's still determined by the taste of the individual what they choose to include in their own work that is from AI

right? Because anyone everyone can write a newsletter, anyone can get research from AI. Anyone can bounce ideas off of AI. But when you prompt AI, especially if it's not specific, you're just asking a question. Chat GPT is just guessing as to what is the best, right? And it's going to tell a different person a different thing. So, you need to be able to tell whether or not that's a good answer and whether or not you're going to include it as an idea in your own

right? Because anyone everyone can write a newsletter, anyone can get research from AI. Anyone can bounce ideas off of AI. But when you prompt AI, especially if it's not specific, you're just asking a question. Chat GPT is just guessing as to what is the best, right? And it's going to tell a different person a different thing. So, you need to be able to tell whether or not that's a good answer and whether or not you're going to include it as an idea in your own

thing. Because if I read a book, I get an idea, then I'm like, "Oh, I should include that in my newsletter." It's usually because like that's my taste signal going off like, "Oh, that's really good. I need to share that with other people." If AI or chat GPT doesn't do that for me, but it sounds nice, then I'm not going to include it. But if it's a really good idea and just because chat GBT had it, I'm going to try to set aside my biases so that I can include a

thing. Because if I read a book, I get an idea, then I'm like, "Oh, I should include that in my newsletter." It's usually because like that's my taste signal going off like, "Oh, that's really good. I need to share that with other people." If AI or chat GPT doesn't do that for me, but it sounds nice, then I'm not going to include it. But if it's a really good idea and just because chat GBT had it, I'm going to try to set aside my biases so that I can include a

very good idea that other people could benefit from. So it it's really dependent and um I've been very dogmatic and polarizing about it before. A lot of people have, especially when it was first becoming new and accelerating. But I think we just don't know what shape it's going to take. I don't think that uh art is determined by the tool that you use. I think art is determined by the story that you tell, the piece of your soul that you put into the work, so on and so forth. Right? You think, you

compare AI, the tool now, to the tools of the past and just look at how they've progressed throughout history. I could imagine that when Photoshop came out or CGI especially came out, people would be like, "Oh, you h you aren't handdrawing this thing." Like, "This isn't authentic. This isn't yours." And there's a way to use AI that is authentic and can in fact amplify or enhance your workflow. One of the ways that I think you can do that is by getting extremely specific on what you

want AI to do. The first way I discovered this was trying to get it to write like me and I was trying to get it to replicate tweets. So, how I did this is first I just said, "Okay, write 10 tweets on these ideas." It spat them out. I'm like, "Okay, these suck." Like, "Yeah they could do okay. Doesn't sound like me. I'm going to have to rewrite them anyways. I wouldn't even write about eight of these ideas. So, kind of useless." Then I got a bit more specific

because I know how to write tweets. And so I was like teaching it kind of like giving it a guide on how I would write tweets. And then it got a bit better and then I refined it a bit more, got a bit more specific. And eventually I ended up with like this 2,000word prompt going through like do this, don't do this, do this, don't do this. Okay, here's the principles of writing tweets. Here's a few examples. Here's the exact output format I want you to use. I uh didn't understand much

about prompt engineering at the time. So, I was looking at like really good prompts that I'd seen before and kind of like pulling over the structure of that for how I'm going to structure it. >> Where, can, somebody, find, those, prompts? Like if somebody wanted to learn how to prompt AI better, like where do they go to find that? >> I'll, get, to, that, and, I'll, if, you, want, to include something in the description >> would, love, to., We'd, love, to.

>> Okay., I'll, give, you, like, a, Google, doc. Extremely freaking valuable. But that I I created like the 2,000word document how to write tweets, and it was pretty good. I I had it spit out in each response, I would give it like a newsletter or a piece of content, and it would spit out four oneliner posts, uh four paragraph posts, and then four like bullet list posts, and I could tell it which one I wanted more of, how to refine it, so on and so forth. It was

really good. And so I realized, okay, in order for AI to do what I actually want it to do, if I have an idea of what I want it to do, I have to teach it exactly how to do that thing. So then I started thinking, okay, well, is the usefulness of AI only determined by what I'm really good at?, And, a, lot, of, in, a, lot, of the, cases, that's correct. Yes, if you're very good at it, you're going to be able to do that thing 10 times better than anyone else with AI. But the beautiful thing

here is that there are YouTube videos and courses and PDFs that have everyone's process in it. So what I see this as is AI allows me to focus more on my craft. It allows me to focus on the thing that I don't want to outsource to AI. For everything else, I can pull from experts in the field and teach the AI how to do exactly that. So I like to focus on my writing. But now for things like landing pages or a lot of the promotional stuff, cuz I don't really care about that unless

it depends. If I have the idea for it then I'll go through and bust it out. But if I wanted to create a landing page then what I could do is I would say okay first thing I need is specific instructions on how to create it. So with that I could take a book like uh breakthrough advertising which is like a classic copywriting book. Then I can take a website that I want to use and I could let's start with the website first. I take the landing page or website that I want to emulate. I copy

it depends. If I have the idea for it then I'll go through and bust it out. But if I wanted to create a landing page then what I could do is I would say okay first thing I need is specific instructions on how to create it. So with that I could take a book like uh breakthrough advertising which is like a classic copywriting book. Then I can take a website that I want to use and I could let's start with the website first. I take the landing page or website that I want to emulate. I copy

paste that into chat GPT and I say break down exactly what makes this landing page work. Break down the structure of it, the psychological tactics that went into it sentence by sentence just like comprehensive breakdown. Teach me how to replicate this. Now I have a document exactly what to do. Then I take breakthrough advertising and I say "Okay, you're going to give me a comprehensive guide on how to write great copy." Now I can take both of those instructions and I can feed it

into this metaprompt, which is what you guys can link in the description, which is pretty much a prompt that helps you create prompts. Sounds funny, but it's freaking incredible. So, you take that, you send the metaprompt, and then it's going to ask you, okay, what kind of prompt do you want to create? And then I'm going to type in, I want to create a prompt that helps me write landing pages. What you're going to do then is you're going to say, okay, you're going to

first interview me for any context that you need that will help you create this landing page. After that, you're going to take all of those questions that I answered, and you're going to use these two guides on how to write copy and how to structure the landing page, and you're going to write that based on my own ideas and the context that I gave you. From there, it'll give you a billion times better uh landing page than just asking ChatGpt to write you a landing page, right? So, there's so many

different ways to do this, but the two things that you need are one, just straight instructions for what you're trying to do. Two, turn that into a prompt that asks you questions so it can gather the necessary feedback required to do so. If you wanted to use this to quote unquote start a business or do really anything you want to do for a business, you have to break down, okay, what am I trying to do first? I need a brand. I need content. I need a product. and I need

marketing for each of those things. It's like to do all of this with AI, you're not just signing up for a software that does it for you. You're going through that process with each aspect of your business. You're creating a bunch of these little employees called prompts that help create the first draft or prototype of those things that you can then refine and deploy as necessary. >> Are, you, saving, those, on, just, a, Google doc? Like I know we have that one for

the tweets. when you come up with these and you finally really get it working for you because I think that's something that many people have struggled with uh using an AI platform is you know yeah it can give you it can give you every answer in the world you've ever wanted but getting it to say it in a specific format is very difficult like you just explained how you have it you know do it with the tweets are you saving those on a document and that's the easiest way to

the tweets. when you come up with these and you finally really get it working for you because I think that's something that many people have struggled with uh using an AI platform is you know yeah it can give you it can give you every answer in the world you've ever wanted but getting it to say it in a specific format is very difficult like you just explained how you have it you know do it with the tweets are you saving those on a document and that's the easiest way to

do it are you creating your own little chat GBT at the top like what is the what's the situation >> am, I, allowed, to, shameless, plug. >> [ __ ], yeah., Come, on. >> Uh,, so, the, new, software, Eden,, it'll, have prompt items in it, so they're just stored in the prompt items, but that'll have the metaprompt baked in as well because I feel like a lot of people don't know how to write prompts. So when you first create a prompt item in Eden, it'll guide you through that

process of like, what do you want to create? Do you have any references, any examples? uh what do you want to use to create the instructions for this? Okay. And then you can refine from there. Then the prompt is stored and you can share it or you can just use it in a chat or on the canvas. So on and so forth. >> What's, been, one, of, the, most, difficult things of creating Eden and creating an actual like an actual physical thing. thing. I know it's digital, but like

you know, an actual thing. Not just selling a not just selling like a PDF or a cohort or I think that the natural progression for many people in the online business sphere is you sell you start exactly how we we started. You sell something that's digital. You work your way up. You do some sort of core model. You work into maybe a beverage, a a t-shirt, a hoodie, a software, a SAS. What have been some of these huge learnings going into that space that you can share with people? >> Oh.

It's man, there's a lot. I'm doing an entire podcast with the team team on it soon. But the biggest one is like me coming from being a oneperson business is like I'm still learning how to do this whole team thing, right? I I feel like that's one thing I'm good at leaning into is like I don't know what I'm doing. So this entire process is a learning learning experience. Um that's the first thing. Second is we had to rebuild the entire app because it used to be called Cortex, but the reason we

got stuck there is because we built it like a big tech startup in terms of infrastructure and how the teams were siloed into frontend, backend, specific parts of the product. And as a startup and small team, that wasn't working for us. We were just constantly getting stuck on maintenance and bug fixes and we had this big vision for the app but it felt like we were just moving so slow in order and what should have taken 6 months was going to take 2 to 3 years

and that just wasn't acceptable to us. So Matt and Ari the other co-founders went off started building a prototype knew how to build it in a way that would allow us to iterate faster. Um and now that's going pretty well. During that time, we decided it'd probably be better to rebrand to something less techy and masculine to something that fits the market we're going into more, which is where Eden and the more I guess feminine white and green branding came into play

rather than like blural and dark gray or black. So I guess if we extracted from that what the greatest lesson is, it would be to be okay with starting over knowing that you aren't losing too much, right? Because you keep the experience. So call it a pivot, call it starting over. The biggest thing there was not getting trapped in the sunk cost fallacy. Like we've spent two years building this. I've sunk millions of dollars into it. It's painful to be like we're not doing

this anymore. We are literally rebuilding it. It's going to take longer, but it's just the right thing to do. So that's the big thing is be okay with [ __ ] up, starting over. >> Dude,, we, know, about, a, pivot,, brother., We got you. Come on. We know about a pivot. >> I've, pivoted, so, many, times., I, [ __ ] made it 360, dude. I'm just like, keep pivoting. Okay, so on the topic of pivoting and and sunk cost fallacy >> how, do, you, know, when, it's, time, to, pivot

this anymore. We are literally rebuilding it. It's going to take longer, but it's just the right thing to do. So that's the big thing is be okay with [ __ ] up, starting over. >> Dude,, we, know, about, a, pivot,, brother., We got you. Come on. We know about a pivot. >> I've, pivoted, so, many, times., I, [ __ ] made it 360, dude. I'm just like, keep pivoting. Okay, so on the topic of pivoting and and sunk cost fallacy >> how, do, you, know, when, it's, time, to, pivot

verse? I just haven't put enough time and effort into this and I should keep going and see it through. It's when it's too painful not to pivot is when you just reach a point of knowing and it's like you you you have to trust that gut feeling. You know it deep down but your mind wants to tell you like no you should keep going but then you don't think any further than that. Like if you really think further like where is this going to be in two years? Am I okay with

verse? I just haven't put enough time and effort into this and I should keep going and see it through. It's when it's too painful not to pivot is when you just reach a point of knowing and it's like you you you have to trust that gut feeling. You know it deep down but your mind wants to tell you like no you should keep going but then you don't think any further than that. Like if you really think further like where is this going to be in two years? Am I okay with

that? Where's the other one going to be in two years? Is that better? go with the, other, one, no matter, how, painful, it is now. >> Yeah., So,, also from your haircut, I would say that you're in war mode. >> Is, that, correct? >> Yeah. >> Versus, monk, mode. >> So,, what, is, um, for, those, who, don't, know, what is war mode? And like what is your day-to-day output looking like and like what is a day-to-day schedule look like for Danco right now?

that? Where's the other one going to be in two years? Is that better? go with the, other, one, no matter, how, painful, it is now. >> Yeah., So,, also from your haircut, I would say that you're in war mode. >> Is, that, correct? >> Yeah. >> Versus, monk, mode. >> So,, what, is, um, for, those, who, don't, know, what is war mode? And like what is your day-to-day output looking like and like what is a day-to-day schedule look like for Danco right now?

>> Yeah., So, what, I, call, war, mode, is, like the opposite of monk mode where monk mode kind of means in today's world it's like oh disappear work a lot achieve your goals. I think that's more like war mode. Actual monk mode is like aeticism and being bored not doing anything abstaining from sex drugs, whatever the monks do. But war mode on the other hand is like it's this mindset you get into of like I'm just gonna achieve my goal at all costs, right? It kind of it kind of

converges on that. You feel it. It's kind it's hard to like force yourself into it, but you know when it's time like you need to enter that season of life. So I signify that by buzzing my hair off and embracing the terrible hairline that I have. So, it like forces me to not focus on the insecurity there. But what my day looks like is I'm typically up at it fluctuates a lot. Uh it could be 4:30, it could be 6, but whenever I wake up, it's pretty early. And then

I'll go on a walk. That's when I start to just like try to get ideas flowing for the day. And then I'll spend or I'll come home, I'll shower, and I'll get straight into writing. So that's the first thing I need to knock out. If I finish that, I feel like I've had a good day's work because those are the levers right? That's the foundation. So social media posts and at least like a quarter of the newsletter written cuz I send that out weekly. So if I finish a quarter, I'm making good progress on

that. Uh I record the YouTube video for the week. Uh that takes about an hour one day out of the week. So I'll exchange newsletter writing for that. After that I'll go on another walk and that's like sun kind of like exercise trying to hit my 10,000 steps. More ideas in the morning. Those are like the main two walking sessions slashnon lifting style exercise. And then after that go to the gym. Then I come home. Then I eat. And then during quote unquote war mode, I usually go to

that. Uh I record the YouTube video for the week. Uh that takes about an hour one day out of the week. So I'll exchange newsletter writing for that. After that I'll go on another walk and that's like sun kind of like exercise trying to hit my 10,000 steps. More ideas in the morning. Those are like the main two walking sessions slashnon lifting style exercise. And then after that go to the gym. Then I come home. Then I eat. And then during quote unquote war mode, I usually go to

somewhere where I can work that's out of the house. So a coffee shop or a lobby of a hotel or something of that nature. And then I can usually bust out a good amount of work for like 3 to four hours there. Then I'll come home, eat again start the night. If I have any more ideas or things to do, I'll sit down and do it. that that's typically what my day looks like right now. So, nothing like crazy. Nothing 12 to 16 hours a day, but a good amount where I feel like I'm putting out a lot.

>> You're, doing, quite, a, bit, before, you, even eat, which is interesting. Are you crushing coffee? >> Oh,, yeah., I, I, used, to, do, intermittent fasting. I don't really consider it that anymore. Um I may have missed when I eat. I eat before the fir before the second walk. So that's around like 9:30, 10:00 a.m. >> Okay. >> Just, so, I, have, food, in, me, before, the gym. Uh but yeah, I used to not eat until 1 and it was fine. You helps you focus a lot, but that's usually like a

stress induced focusing >> from, not, eating. >> Uh, so, yeah,, I, I, definitely, feel, like body composition is better. Energy is better if you eat earlier in the morning. >> Yeah., Do, you, are, you, going, with, fruit? Do you like Are you a big fruit guy? >> Um,, no., I, did, the, the, fruit, till, noon, or the sugar fasting for like two or three months, I enjoy it. Makes it very simple. But, uh, when I'm more when I'm more focused on like lifting, I know that more of a bro diet or like a

bodybuilder diet just I feel good, it digests well, energy is there, I feel pumped, I feel full, I look good. like everything's there. I'm not really concerned with losing weight right now. And I feel like a lot of the the sugar fasting, really any kind of diet, everyone's marketing it towards those who want to lose weight, which is fine and it works, but yeah, I'm not I'm trying to just like feel really good and perform. >> Just, feel, good, and, be, Yeah., Be, an overall be an athlete, man.

>> Just, a, Oh,, man. >> Just, a, unit., Just, a, rock. >> I, love, There, was, a, video, that, you, put out., You're, like,, "When, I, was a, kid,, I just wanted to be a [ __ ] unit in all aspects of life." And I'm like, "Fuck yeah, dude. We're going to be [ __ ] rich. We're going to be [ __ ] ripped. >> Really, knowledgeable, in, a, lot, of, aspects of life >> dude., Let's, [ __ ], go.", Dan,, give, me give me a couple of book recommendations. I got Flow in the cart

for this long 18 hour flight to Hong Kong before we get out of here. I would like a couple more. Give me a couple more. Enlighten me. What else you got in the cabinet? >> I've, got, a, good, amount., Uh,, Think, on These Things by Krishna Murdy. >> Okay. >> Oh,, you, pulled, it, out, >> dude., Toss, that, on,, dude., Toss, that, on the Amazon cart. Okay, easy. Okay, I got one. >> I'm, right, next, to, her. >> Um, if you want like esoteric stuff >> give, me, give, me, a, psychology, one., I, feel

like you know quite a bit about psychology, give me a psych one to take on the plane. >> One, that, I, really, like, is, integral psychology. Integrals >> by, Ken, Wilbur., that, kind, of, goes if you like spirituality or any of that kind of talk, it grounds it in modern psychology. It's more of like here's psychology across history and everything related with it and it caused a lot of things to click for me. >> So,, integral, psychology, is, really, good. Um, there's a lot man.

The way of the superior man, I feel like >> self-improvement,, YouTube, took, that, in, a direction it wasn't meant to go in, but if you want to learn how to be a better man in relationships, that's a great one. Uh, Red Pill Stuff Aside A Brief History of Everything by Ken Wilbur. That one may blow your mind depending on how interested you are in that stuff. But like >> very, generalized, overview, of, history, as a whole and why things happened the way they did. Really cool

>> dude., I'm, going, to, be, I'm, telling, you, I'm going to come back from this trip to Hong Kong. >> The, funniest, new, guy, >> Dan., The, funniest, thing, about, this conversation is Braden thinks he's going to be finishing multiple books on a [ __ ] weekl long trip to Hong Kong. >> Every, time, I've, ever, gone, on, a, trip,, you don't know. Dude, I'm a fast little reader. Fast little reader. >> Going, to, finish, like, a, chapter, and, a half.

>> No,, I, I'm, going, to, be, locked, in, on, both of these flights. It's long flights. You're underestimating. >> I, have, I, have, so, much, more, that, I, want to talk to you about, but I have one last thing that I want to talk to you about. And it's getting clarity on your goals and clarity in life. And you like the way you think about that is you preach that like it's important to know what you want, but it's almost like more important to know what you don't like

and what you don't want. and how important it is for your goals to have gravity. And so I would love to leave the listeners with like you kind of expanding on that and like if they have goals or if they want to go out and achieve these, you know, grand goals that they have and >> accomplish, things, like, how, do, they, go about that and why do their goals need to have gravity and like what does that exactly mean? >> Yeah., I'll, start, by, making, you, think, as

your life and where you want to be as like a map in a video game. So, if you've played World of Warcraft or any game, you know that where you are on the map, that's like the only thing that shows. It's like a bit bright there and you can see in the vicinity around you. But everywhere else is dark, right? You would call that the unknown. So, where you are or where you've been is known. Everything else is unknown. Everyone's so focused on like, oh, what do I want?

What do I want? When you you don't know right? It's in the unknown. There is no way of you knowing it until you discover it. So, let's not focus on that and let's focus on making mistakes and figuring out what you don't want because that's tangible and readily accessible to you right now to give you direction in life. Right? You can think back on your life and be like, I don't want, for me, it's like, I don't want to work that job. I don't want to go through that

argument in my relationship again. I don't want to feel like I did when I was waking up and going to McDonald's and getting two sausage and egg McMuffins and a nice coffee and sitting down and watching the office for 6 hours and then not doing anything with my time. Right? I know what I don't want. I know how it makes me feel. Those are the data points from which I can then create an aim for my future. Not necessarily where I want to be, but where I think I want to be. That

gives me direction. I can start pursuing that thing. And along the way, I'm going to make the unknown known. I'm going to experience new things and I'm going to have more data points to refine my aim. So, it's less about focusing on what you want. It's more on about moving in a direction that you think is good and being very conscious of the mistakes you make along the way so that you don't end up at the top of a mountain that you didn't mean to climb. So it's like this

process of just trusting the process so to say. Now one thing you can do is once you have that aim, you have an idea of where you want to go, you have an idea of what you should do to get there, you do that by pursuing goals, right? If it helps in the context of a video game, these are quests. So, if you think of it in that context, you know that a quest that is reserved for level 50, you can't even see it. Like, you can't even comprehend that. If you were to start that quest

you would die fighting the first monster. You start at level one, then level two, then level three, and the quests available to you there. So, if you know in the future or in the p if you know that you don't want to be broke in everything that comes along with that, you know that you have to make money in some way, if you choose to start a business to do so, you're not going to go and try to start a unicorn software startup. You're going to start with the digital product because that's

what you have the resources and access to do cuz that's like a new quest that spawned on the map when the internet came up and it's really cool. So you start that and the way when you say goals that have gravity, right? Everyone wants to start a business. many people do, but it they're kind of just doing it because they're conforming because other people said they should and they're following people on YouTube and it's a smart thing to do. I think a lot of

people, should, do, it, or, at least, try, it because entrepreneurship is a vessel for personal growth to an extent. But the way you kind of uh it's not discipline but the way you kind of become obsessed with that goal is by again inverting it. So what happens if you don't achieve that goal? What's the anti- vision? What's the the force that's pushing you toward that goal? Right? It's not really about the goal pulling you towards it. It's about what are you being pushed away from so that

you're encouraged to work on that goal. So you just have to really keep in mind and internalize until it becomes a part of you is where do you not want to end up in life? What's going to happen if you keep doing the same thing you're doing today for the next 10 years? Right? What aim are you working towards unconsciously? And if you want to go even deeper there, your aim is your frame. That's good. I >> I, need, to, write, about, that, one., Your, aim is

>> already, It's, already, in, my, newsletter. Don't steal it. Don't steal it, brother. >> So,, what, I, mean, by, that, is, if, you've heard of Adleran psychology or even like cy cybernetics, psy psychocybernetics the the mind or the human is this goal striving machine. That's what we do. We're like a heat-seeking missile where we're trying to aim for the heat and the heat is our aim. So if your aim is to do what your parents or teachers or society said was the best thing to do, which is

go to school, get a job, retire at 65 you're going to view life through that lens. And you make decisions based on the opportunities available to you. So you're not in control of your own mind or the direction of your own life unless you question that and attempt to reprogram it. So think of it like this. A person who wants to be a good student or has the goal of graduating school and a person who wants to start a business they read the same book. They're going

to go through that book and they're each going to pick up ideas that help them achieve their goals, right? Because back to the project discussion, that's the magnet for ideas. So that's like that's it. That's all of it is if you can be in control of your aim and have this these like opposing forces like a life that you really want to live that you come through through the mistakes that you make and refining that vision. and the anti- vision, that force that pushes you away, the life that you

don't want to live, and you've experienced a lot of that. So, it's really deeply internalized in your mind then you create like this thing where you're just moving in. You feel like you're moving, you're the character of your own story and you feel like it and you know when you're in that state of mind and it's one that you wouldn't trade for the world. So, find that state of mind, be with it internalize it, and just keep moving refining iterating.

>> Dan,, I, think, you've, left, the, rocks, with so much wisdom today. This has been an amazing episode. I I feel super inspired. I'm very excited for for just the uh for just this conversation. Thank you so much. This has been episode 182 of the 505 podcast with Dan Co. If you're still here, please leave us a subscribe, drop us a comment. We'll see you guys all next week. Peace. You made it to the best part of the show. >> Some, say, they, only, come, for, the, PPD.

>> It's, just, a, it's, a, ritual, at, this, point. Okay. So, work less, earn more, enjoy life. >> Not, a, bad, motto. >> Feel, like, we, should, get, that, tatted, on our wrist. >> Yeah,, I'm, thinking, about, it. >> I, think, that, we, should, all, collectively go to the parlor and that it's a great motto. >> At least, throw, it, on, a, [ __ ], shirt. >> At, the, very, least. >> At, the, very, least,, right?, Yeah,, that's what I'm thinking. >> How, do, you, do, that, though?, Dan, explains

it in this uh in this pod. >> Dude,, wait., It, kind, of, reminds, me, of, the small >> small, team, big >> small, team, big, checks,, dude., You, know what I'm saying? Small team, big checks. Work less, earn more, enjoy life. >> I, I, think, it's, something, we're, all after. >> I, think, you, hear, that, and, you're, like, "Yeah, no [ __ ] shit." >> Uhhuh. >> Sounds, nice., How, do, you, actually, do, it? And it's by building a personal brand online. >> It's, by, building, a, personal, brand

online. It's about starting that email newsletter from day one. Got it? If you start building your brand, do yourself a favor. Don't do what we did and wait three and a half years to start your email newsletter. >> Yeah., I, think, one, of, the, Yes., I, think one of the biggest things that Dan talked about is he's like, it should only take you an hour. And if it's taking you longer than an hour, you're not actually working on or focusing on the things that are actually moving the

online. It's about starting that email newsletter from day one. Got it? If you start building your brand, do yourself a favor. Don't do what we did and wait three and a half years to start your email newsletter. >> Yeah., I, think, one, of, the, Yes., I, think one of the biggest things that Dan talked about is he's like, it should only take you an hour. And if it's taking you longer than an hour, you're not actually working on or focusing on the things that are actually moving the

needle. And I think a lot of us, we can get into this uh into this like fake productivity where it's like, let me pretend or let me act like I'm busier than I am and work and you're not actually working on the things that are going to move the needle forward. And so, I mean, if Dan Co's like, "Yo, all you need is an hour a day." I kind of take his his word. >> I, take, it, as, scripture, at, this, point. Stephen Bartlett had an amazing video that he put out I think like yesterday

needle. And I think a lot of us, we can get into this uh into this like fake productivity where it's like, let me pretend or let me act like I'm busier than I am and work and you're not actually working on the things that are going to move the needle forward. And so, I mean, if Dan Co's like, "Yo, all you need is an hour a day." I kind of take his his word. >> I, take, it, as, scripture, at, this, point. Stephen Bartlett had an amazing video that he put out I think like yesterday

about a philosophy that Steve Jobs had where as creative people we get distracted very easily. We talk I mean we probably have a bazillion ideas. If you looked at our notes you'd be like wow these guys are just coming up with >> and, they're, not, doing, any, of, them. >> Yeah., We're, not, we're, not, doing, any, of those ideas. The problem though I think that a lot of creative people have is you go in like 64 different directions. You're like an octopus. You got like way

too many arms going out doing all these things. And we've talked about this, but the reality is the most important thing that we can do right this second is put out the show every week and get better guests every week. That's like our number one most important priority. And everything else that falls outside of that bucket is probably not the most important thing right now because guests are like the uh the fire that keeps the show burning. You know, we don't have

guests, we don't have a show, right? So really figuring out at the beginning of your week like what are the most important things and everything else is noise. Focus on the most important things and then once those are done like you have okay my goal is x amount of podcast guests that need to be locked in till that's figured out. We shouldn't be focusing on you know this the sock drop putting out new socks. You know what I'm saying? And and >> the, sock, drop, is, arguably, more, fun

>> way, more, fun >> than, trying, to, figure, out >> people. >> Yeah., And, doing, guest, outreach. >> But, it's, the, most, important, thing., It's very difficult to do that unless you have it like written on a board where you can see these are the things that we're trying to to hammer out. And >> I, also, think, like, on, on, that, same, topic, I think people can get really caught up in like gear and like how they're making their content. And >> that, was, the, newsletter., That, was, the

newsletter, today., I, don't, know if, you read it yet. >> Oh,, no,, I, didn't. >> Yeah,, that, was, the, newsletter, I, put, out today. >> About, how, like, gear, people, think, gear, is super important. >> Yeah., They're, just, like, waiting, for, the right thing or the right time or the right mic and it's like never going to be right. >> Yeah., It's, never, going, to, be, the, right thing. And if you have to spend more than an hour, you're not focusing on the right [ __ ]

newsletter, today., I, don't, know if, you read it yet. >> Oh,, no,, I, didn't. >> Yeah,, that, was, the, newsletter, I, put, out today. >> About, how, like, gear, people, think, gear, is super important. >> Yeah., They're, just, like, waiting, for, the right thing or the right time or the right mic and it's like never going to be right. >> Yeah., It's, never, going, to, be, the, right thing. And if you have to spend more than an hour, you're not focusing on the right [ __ ]

>> God., God,, I, love, that. >> Yeah, >> I, love, that., Another, thing, that, he, said that I really enjoyed was the >> when, you, post, something, like, the algorithm doesn't hate you. You're not shadowbanned. Your stuff probably sucks but it's not hitting for a reason. And so reverse engineering why something isn't working. Going to, okay, great. This was let's let's categorize myself in said niche. Let's go to the top 10 best performing people in said niche and

>> God., God,, I, love, that. >> Yeah, >> I, love, that., Another, thing, that, he, said that I really enjoyed was the >> when, you, post, something, like, the algorithm doesn't hate you. You're not shadowbanned. Your stuff probably sucks but it's not hitting for a reason. And so reverse engineering why something isn't working. Going to, okay, great. This was let's let's categorize myself in said niche. Let's go to the top 10 best performing people in said niche and

let's understand like what it is about their communication style. How long are their posts? What do they start with? Do they have an interesting visual hook? Is it something they say? Is it thoughtprovoking? Does it have a question loop that I'm like rethinking in my head the entire time they, you know, they have this 60-second video. Those are the little things that are going to actually make your stuff way better, not bitching and moaning about why your post didn't hit X amount of

views. I also think if something worked for you a year ago or two years ago or maybe you got hot because of X thing you have to continue to ideulate and continue to like push yourself to get better because what got you to one place is not going to get you to the next level. And so it can be easy to be like this is working. I'm just going to stick with this and like this is the end all beall. But like continuing to try to push yourself creatively and continuing to think of new ideas

views. I also think if something worked for you a year ago or two years ago or maybe you got hot because of X thing you have to continue to ideulate and continue to like push yourself to get better because what got you to one place is not going to get you to the next level. And so it can be easy to be like this is working. I'm just going to stick with this and like this is the end all beall. But like continuing to try to push yourself creatively and continuing to think of new ideas

and uh like new content formats is super important because just because it worked, you know, 6 months ago or a year ago, especially with how fast social media is changing, it's not necessarily going to be the thing that is going to continue to work. >> Yeah,, definitely., And, I, love, this, that Dan said about repetition. I think a lot of us think that we got to come up with something new every single time we post. >> And, we, I, mean, we, chatted, with, Gary, Vee about this.

>> He's, really, saying, talk, about constencancy brother's saying the same five things, but he repackages them in a thousand different ways or a thousand different stories from his lived experiences. It's not like it's you're just like, "Oh, I'm pulling this fake madeup story out of my ass." It's like he's done said thing in business. He believes it. He tells it and it like repeats the process over and over again until it's drilled into your head. Kindness, happiness, uh you know, work

really hard, whatever those things may be for some person. And Dan has like philosophies that when you say Dan Co's name, they pop into your brain if you're a consumer of his stuff. >> I, also, think, there's, always, going, to, be a new set of eyes and ears to consume your content. And I think that we can get caught up in I've talked about this before. I've talked about this a ton. Everybody has already heard it, but you're consuming your content more than

anybody else. And so there's I feel like you can get into a bad place of thinking that like everybody has kind of like already seen your [ __ ] or your content. You take somebody like Dan Co who has you know, millions of followers and to us because we've consumed his content for so long

anybody else. And so there's I feel like you can get into a bad place of thinking that like everybody has kind of like already seen your [ __ ] or your content. You take somebody like Dan Co who has you know, millions of followers and to us because we've consumed his content for so long

what do I want to say? Like for us who's consumed his content for so long, you can you can easily like look at his content and be like, he's kind of been talking about the same few things over and over and I've heard him talk about this before. That's one, but because he's like repackaging it in a different way, you're like, "Fuck, I need I needed to hear that again." Um, but also like because maybe five or 10% of your audience is seeing your stuff when you

first post it, it's like you can look at it as like, well, nobody really saw it the first time. And the people with the most successful personal brands, they're just kind of saying the same stuff. They have a couple different ideologies that they really believe to be true and they're just saying that over and over. They're constant with their message over a long period of time and they're consistent with that. Um they're just repackaging it a different way. But man

I think that like there's you never know who's going to come across your content today, tomorrow, next week. And just because you talked about it today or last week doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't say it again this week. >> Without, a, doubt., He, talked, about, his goals having gravity as well and like those bigger goals really pulling you towards something. And so I think as this new year comes around and we all start writing our little goals down for 2026

>> to, really, think, about, what's, going, to like get you up in the morning, get you super fired up to to push forward. not just having like an excessive amount of goals that are we have 100 goals for this year horrible way to do it like really think about I believe it's smart goals it's like uh specific measurable actionable don't remember the R and time bound like th that that's like really easy way to think about what it is that you're building >> maybe, relatable >> forget, the, R, dude

>> sure, smat >> smat >> a, smat, goal, those, are, the, best, goals smat goals you don't even you don't need the R dude >> like, Timothy, Shal, smack Forget the R. Doesn't matter. That's why I didn't remember it. >> Maybe, reasonable. >> Yeah, >> I, think, um >> relative., I, don't, know., Forget, it. Forget the R, dude. It's Matt. >> But, I, think, when, you, are, setting, goals to have gravity like it needs to be a um has to h has to resonate with your why

super deeply or else you're just kind of throwing stuff uh on a piece of paper or word doc of like I want to accomplish this. It's like, okay, but why do you want to accomplish this? Like, what will this bring you? We've talked about it before on past episodes, but when you're setting goals, like instead of saying, I want to hit 100,000 subscribers you could have that goal, but think about the inputs as opposed to the outputs, but think about like why do you

actually want to achieve this goal? What will hitting a 100,000 subscribers do for you? Like, what is that feeling that it will give you? It's not a vanity metric. It actually signifies you've put in the work. You're you're building a show or a YouTube channel that people really resonate with and if I reach this goal, my life will change or my my life will look like this. I will have more freedom or whatever it is you're chasing. Like think about when you're

setting goals, like he said, the gravity behind them. like why is it that you want to achieve that goal and focus on your why because if you just want to achieve

something that like maybe you don't even actually want you're just like oh it would be nice to have or I want this because X person is also going after this goal or achieve that and I want that. >> Yeah,, I, think, the, gravity, with, the, goals is like super key. Okay, speaking of that that that specific goal, we do want 100,000 subscribers, but we know, dude we're putting out an episode every week >> dude., We're, chasing, the, rock. >> We're, chasing, the, rock,, dude., Tell, them

about the rock. >> So,, the, rock, is, the >> silver, [ __ ], plaque., We, go,, we, want that plaque so bad. >> And, so,, that's, our, next, um >> that, is, on, the, goal., That's, the, new motto for 2026. Chasing the rock. We're chasing the rock. >> So,, what's, that, rock, that, you, guys, are chasing? >> Yeah., What, is, the, rock, that, you're chasing? That's what you got to remind yourself, dude. We went to Hong Kong. We even talk about Hong Kong. We have like

a huge debrief on Hong Kong, right? >> What', you, think? >> That, was, crazy., I, think, that, we, had, two banger pods. We potted with Ali Abdal Jeff Sue, which was phenomenal. They were super fun. Daniel Dalen >> no,, I, think, we, did, talk, about, Hong, Kong in the Ali Abdal episode. >> We, did. >> I, think, we, did, a, postpod, debrief,, right? >> We, weren't, done, though., We, weren't officially like done with the trip. Now that we're on US soil, we have time to really

>> Oh,, yeah., No,, because, we, did, it., We, did it in in bed. >> In, bed., We, did, it, in, our, beds., Yeah. Right next to each other in bed. >> Daniel, Dalen, took, us, to, a, factory, in China, which was insane. We like we literally we went to mainland China. We crossed the border, went over >> we, went, on, a, mission, >> got, a, visa., You, know, that, they're, not doing stamps anymore in passports in Europe. Sorry to derail the conversation. >> Really

>> couldn't, believe, that, [ __ ], My, mom, told me that last night. I'm like super but there's no point in traveling. >> I, know. >> What's, the, point, if, I, can't, get, a, stamp anyways? We got a cool Chinese visa. had to like go over there. None of your your debit cards and all that stuff don't work. You got to use WeChat or Alip Pay. It's a wild experience. >> We, had, to, download, like, three, apps. >> Three, different, apps., Like, Uber, doesn't work over there. It's something called

like DD. Uh but we figured it out. We managed to show up and Daniel's like "We're coming down." I'm like "There's a 50% chance that we're just not at the right location." Cuz Daniel sends me this location just in complete Chinese. I'm like, Daniel >> we, get, in, the, taxi, after, we, cross, the border and we show it to the taxi driver. was like, "Yeah, I know where that is." Like, "All right." >> I, was, like, "There's, no, way, this, guy knows this." And then after like 5

like DD. Uh but we figured it out. We managed to show up and Daniel's like "We're coming down." I'm like "There's a 50% chance that we're just not at the right location." Cuz Daniel sends me this location just in complete Chinese. I'm like, Daniel >> we, get, in, the, taxi, after, we, cross, the border and we show it to the taxi driver. was like, "Yeah, I know where that is." Like, "All right." >> I, was, like, "There's, no, way, this, guy knows this." And then after like 5

minutes, he goes, "Can I see that again?" I'm like, "Dude >> yeah. >> Do, you, know, where, we're, going, or, not?" And he's like, "I don't speak English." I'm like >> "Okay,, we're, [ __ ], We, might, be, in, a completely foreign area. This guy might be trafficking us for all we know." No dude. We showed up, dropped us off, he goes, "You're here." Daniel comes right down. I'm like "There's no way. We just made it out here." It was so fun. What a crazy day. Then we went to get dinner.

>> Yeah., But, but, with, the, with, the, factory, >> I, think, there, is, a, certain, like, stigma around these >> Chinese, made, in, China. >> Okay., Yeah., If, you, hear, of, made, in China, you think it's made >> this, is, a, west, thing, for, sure., This, is like Americans might think this. >> Americans, think, that, made, in, China, is made cheaply. It's not like handmade or I guess it is handmade, but the working conditions aren't great. Okay, that's

what my mindset going into this factory. brother. We walked in and I was like unbelievably clean and just like run like militant >> to, the, nines >> and, we, saw, the, brands, that, this, factory was making and you owned >> the, big, brands. >> You, owned, a, pair, of, sunglasses, from, one of the brands. >> This, was, just, an, amazing, process, of seeing how a factory operates at the highest level. >> And, luxury, is, a, scam., Oh, yeah,, for, sure.

>> Because, you, were, you, had, a, pair, of sunglasses and you paid a lot of money for them. And then we asked the girl like, "Oh, how much would a would these sunglasses cost to make?" She told us $15. But Daniel told us that when she told us 15, she was embarrassed because she thought we were going to think that was really expensive. >> It, was, crazy., It, was, so, cool., It, was like genuinely the most fun day of all time. So cool to see the process for like what goes into making a pair of

sunglasses. Yeah, it's like 64 steps. It's not like, oh, you're just in a mold and they crack them out this like 3D printed mold. It's a whole It's an entire >> It's, an, entire, thing., And, it, was, so freaking cool. >> Looked, handmade, to, me. >> They, were, freaking, handmade., It, was crazy. I mean, they're going through like 64 different steps. You have a quality control team, a team that just does the sides, the a bezling team. >> We, learned, something,, too.

sunglasses. Yeah, it's like 64 steps. It's not like, oh, you're just in a mold and they crack them out this like 3D printed mold. It's a whole It's an entire >> It's, an, entire, thing., And, it, was, so freaking cool. >> Looked, handmade, to, me. >> They, were, freaking, handmade., It, was crazy. I mean, they're going through like 64 different steps. You have a quality control team, a team that just does the sides, the a bezling team. >> We, learned, something,, too.

>> Huh?, [ __ ], if, it, says, made, in, Italy, 99 cap city, bro. 99% of it was made in China and then they [ __ ] ship it. They put the last little screw in >> and, then, they, it, but, they, put, the, screw in in [ __ ] Italy and now it's considered made in Italy. >> It's, insane. >> This, whole, thing, is, a, scam. >> It's, insane. >> Unbelievable. >> Made, in, Italy., Made, in, Germany. >> [ __ ], [ __ ] >> Made, in, France, >> dude., But, I, think, um

>> dude,, but, it, just, doesn't, matter, because they're making it just as good as as uh as whatever other country. It doesn't matter. It was so freaking cool. It was genuinely awesome. And we're putting out our first vlog. >> Yes., So >> tell, them, about, what's, going, on,, dude. Tell them about our realizations while we're out there. We sit with Daniel. We We got a lot of time with Mr. D >> which, we, wanted, to, podcast, with, him,, but he's been going through some stuff. He's

kind of hitting a little reset. He's like, "We will pod at some point." And he brought up the idea of doing a live podcast, which would be super cool. >> Not, mad, at, that. >> Not, mad, at, that, at, all., But, because, we didn't podcast with him, we actually got to spend more time with him, I think and we got to hang out with him on three separate occasions. And we when we went to um Shenzhen, we really got to spend some time with him. It's unbelievably inspiring being around somebody his age

and like how successful he is and just the way he thinks. It forced us. It forced us to think bigger. I'm like, "Oh, we're thinking smaller." But I think one of the biggest things that we came out of this Hong Kong trip with is the fact that we want to do a YouTube vlog. And the reason why is because the podcast, as amazing as it is, it's very focused around the guests, which is like totally great. And that's what a podcast. >> That's, how, a, podcast, is,, huh?, That's

like how they go. But we realized, yeah yeah, it's how it goes. But I think that like for us when we started the podcast or like as it started to grow, we were like the podcast is the end all be all the main thing >> like, this, is, how, we're, eventually, going. This will be >> I'm, retiring. >> Retiring,, dude., That's, it. >> And >> it's, not, going, to, work, like, that. >> It's, not, going, to, work, like, that., It'll still be like a It's like It's like 1A

and then I want I think the YouTube vlog to be like 1B or like 1 A 1 B, whatever it may be. The YouTube I think is going to be a place where we can really bring our personalities into it. Showcase the whole behind the scenes of the operations of the podcast and everything else that we're working on. And that will be like that will be uh how we build our personal brands like much more than the podcast because I we were talking about it feels like the podcast is almost rented >> rented, eyeballs

>> rented, attention. >> It, is, for, sure., It's, 100%, rented attention because it's very if you guys go to our views, if we get someone on that has a million plus subscribers >> it, dramatically, affects, how, many, views it gets. We could have let and let's just pretend this is this is all hypothetical. Let's say someone that we had on has a much smaller personal brand, but the combo was A1, top tier best [ __ ] combo we've ever had. Congratulations. It doesn't really

matter until we get to a level of where we have, you know, quarter million plus people on this channel listening and we have really built up a ton of trust with a group that's like, hey, no matter what we're coming cuz we know it's going to be awesome. It doesn't really matter for us at this point, which is super unfortunate cuz we could have someone on that's smaller. We're like, that was the best conversation ever. Doesn't matter if it nobody watches it, you know? It

doesn't it doesn't do anything. And we've also been doing some research and looking at people who are doing like the building in public and the YouTube stuff. And >> you, don't, need millions of views. You don't even need hundreds. Of course, you would like that. >> Yeah., Yeah., Yeah., Everyone, would, love that. >> But, just, seeing, the, sentiment, in, some, of these people's vlogs and videos, man they're getting maybe like 5 to 10 maybe 20K, but that is like a diehard

>> group., Yeah,, for, sure., And, I, think, that for what we want to do in building our the different companies we're building still I'm still doing blue stripe that's super fun. I want to show more of that. I couldn't I can't really show that here. I mean where where we you know what I mean? I would where would the >> Yeah., Where, would, I, show, it?, I, can't, I'm not like showing you guys a spot that we made right. We got a shoot for Nike in like two weeks that's going to be so

>> group., Yeah,, for, sure., And, I, think, that for what we want to do in building our the different companies we're building still I'm still doing blue stripe that's super fun. I want to show more of that. I couldn't I can't really show that here. I mean where where we you know what I mean? I would where would the >> Yeah., Where, would, I, show, it?, I, can't, I'm not like showing you guys a spot that we made right. We got a shoot for Nike in like two weeks that's going to be so

sick. Where am I going to show that besides on Instagram? Like you'll get a snippet of it for 30 seconds. you'll see the spot, maybe like a couple behind the scenes photos, but you won't really be there. And I feel like this that's a perfect place for us to be able to just show our personalities more. Uh, and we talked about this. I think last year we officially made 505 Studios, which is the YouTube channel that all this shit's going to live on. Uh, 56 of you guys

sick. Where am I going to show that besides on Instagram? Like you'll get a snippet of it for 30 seconds. you'll see the spot, maybe like a couple behind the scenes photos, but you won't really be there. And I feel like this that's a perfect place for us to be able to just show our personalities more. Uh, and we talked about this. I think last year we officially made 505 Studios, which is the YouTube channel that all this shit's going to live on. Uh, 56 of you guys

subscribe. Appreciate that. You guys are really >> Should, we, keep, it, 505, Studios? >> What, else, would, you, want, to, call, it?, 505 Rocks? >> No,, like, I, don't, know., 505, show, or, fi, I don't know but 505 I don't know stu studio studio 505 studios makes it feel like it's going to be like in a studio sit down talking head >> what, about, studios, like, it's, like, a >> sure, whatever, we'll, think, about, it >> does, it, really, matter >> n, it, doesn't, really, [ __ ], matter, can't

subscribe. Appreciate that. You guys are really >> Should, we, keep, it, 505, Studios? >> What, else, would, you, want, to, call, it?, 505 Rocks? >> No,, like, I, don't, know., 505, show, or, fi, I don't know but 505 I don't know stu studio studio 505 studios makes it feel like it's going to be like in a studio sit down talking head >> what, about, studios, like, it's, like, a >> sure, whatever, we'll, think, about, it >> does, it, really, matter >> n, it, doesn't, really, [ __ ], matter, can't

believe we almost changed the [ __ ] name >> dude, ally, of, doll, tried, to, get, us, to change the name of the show >> he, was, like, dude, you, guys, should, change this Ally We love the 505 pod name dude. >> Um,, but, yeah,, dude., I This Dan Co episode was like really cool because we've been consuming his content for a minute and he's someone who I mean, another thing, dude, he's just so intelligent and he's able to articulate his thoughts so clearly and it made me

realize like I need to write read and write more. difficult, but you know we'll struggle through. And um it's just it's cool that we have gotten this show to a point where like somebody and I feel like we say this every [ __ ] time we have a guest on, but like we're able to get people on that like we're genuine fans of and it's the coolest [ __ ] thing ever because we can also structure the conversation and ask them whatever the [ __ ] we want which is awesome.

>> And, usually, a, lot, of, it, is, what, you, guys want to hear, too, which is just great. It's a little win-win for everyone involved. >> I'm, excited, though, for, 2026., I, feel like, dude, we're we're a little over four years into this thing, and it feels like that's what it took to build the base. And we've gotten so much clarity over the past couple of weeks of like where we want to take this thing and how we're going to really level up. And so I think that if you guys have been

longtime listeners, um I think what we're, going to, do, in, 2026, is, going, to, be super exciting. God, inerson events. You're, on, a, rocket, ship., We're, going to get the rock. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been such a fun episode with Danco. If you're still here, please hit the subscribe button, drop us a comment leave us a like, subscribe to the [ __ ] pod, please. And we'll see you guys all next week. Peace. space.