Wall Street Expert: Why Vietnam Joining the FTSE Russell EM index Could Change Everything? | EP 367

I started on Wall Street September 11th of 2001 and that was our first day of work. It

was chaos. People were screaming, yelling, running all over. I I'm a Chicago boy. I didn't know where I was

Chicago boy. I didn't know where I was even. And I just still remember the

even. And I just still remember the world was raining paper. I think almost 50% of that class didn't never returned.

They just left the business.

If I would have put a $100 into the market on that day, that $100 would be definitely like $700, $800. Now, I

should have been more tamlam. The moment

when you should be greedy, you're very fearful.

>> And when you're fearful, you should be more greedy.

>> Greedy.

>> The 46 number, the 46, remember tariff that Trump why 6%.

>> Holy cow. Why would Trump do this to this little country? You know,

>> that is a gift. It's an amazing moment of history for us.

>> And Thomas, so for um the audience who don't know so much about the capital market, including they don't they've never heard about the name Footsie.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

>> Tell us what is Footsie and why should we care?

>> It's okay. It's it's an interesting question because you know I have to sit down and think about it myself because again being from the developed market I

take so much for granted and and coming back from Vietnam what's fresh to me is I have to explain it to people who don't really understand what we're talking

about here. So so Footsie is an

about here. So so Footsie is an organization and I'm oversimplifying it.

They create indexes, indices basically they either in specific markets lists of stocks I'm I'm oversimplifying

that investors such as Vanguard can use okay as as to benchmark >> right >> uh a certain investment product. So for

example, Footsie's emerging market indices is has about I think roughly one 1 trillion is that right 1 trillion US

dollars benchmark to it. Okay. And so

it's an organization that in many ways um allows big investors to passively invest in a

in a structured product and then ultimately it actually forces that investor to invest that way. Okay, I'm

really oversimplifying it. So what does this all mean? So the fact that Footsie has upgraded Vietnam and will

include Vietnam in one of its indices is forcing people like Vanguard which is the second biggest asset manager in the world. They manage 13 trillion US

world. They manage 13 trillion US dollars. It's forcing

dollars. It's forcing uh Vanguard to put money into Vietnam.

Maybe the word is the forcing is the wrong word because it sounds negative but Vanguard wants that to happen. Is

that right? So I think um your listeners should recognize that probably there's three buckets in of investors in the world related to Vietnam. There are those who can invest

Vietnam. There are those who can invest anywhere in the world. If they want to invest in Vietnam, they can. If they

don't, they don't have to. Those are

active investors. Okay? And then there's another group of investors that only invest in emerging markets. Okay? And

because Vietnam is not in the emerging market, they don't have to invest in it.

>> Right.

>> Okay. And that's also active. And then

there's that group of very what I call passive investors that have chosen to just follow people like Footsie's indices. Okay? So whatever Footsie tells

indices. Okay? So whatever Footsie tells them, they have to do it. Okay? So, so

simply put, if you think about what's happening to Vietnam now, and why I'm so excited about what's happened is that there's going to be a certain amount of money that's going to be forced to get

into Vietnam by next September, >> right?

>> There's going to be a certain amount of money that is not forced to come in, but they're like, it's a good idea. It's in

it's an em now, okay? And they'll come in. And then there's probably another

in. And then there's probably another bucket out here, the first bucket of people that have never even thought about Vietnam and said, "Oh, you know, Footsie likes them. EM people like them.

Okay, I'll put some money in." So that's why the Footsie upgrade is much more than just that 1.5 billion that you hear about.

>> Wow.

You know, I can't believe you just said that because um I've always said the most important thing about investing in capital markets, the most the three most important things is liquidity, liquidity liquidity.

>> Exactly.

>> Okay. And that's what's going to make the Vietnam story so magical. We we are already the most liquid market in Southeast Asia. I think that was a

Southeast Asia. I think that was a really big turning point for us. Um we

trade about 1.5 billion a day now. Uh,

if I had to guess, and maybe we can have a podcast where you tease me because I was so wrong. U, if I had to guess, by this time next year, we'll be north of two billion. And I think we're some

two billion. And I think we're some someday going to look back soon and think, I can't believe we even celebrated 1.5 billion.

>> So throughout the years in sales and marketing, you turn to finance world.

What are some of the skills >> that you think that you just carry it for your entire career >> that you think that everybody should have?

>> Yes. Look, I I I think um you know there's no magic things about business from my view. I think I think I I personally just in all my experiences

think that the the real magic is to do the basic things right. And and it's really it's hard to explain to people because you know I've I've I've moved around the world. I've I've ran

businesses. I've turned them around and

businesses. I've turned them around and I always start with the basic fundamentals and it it astounds me that often times people said why do you why do you oversimplify things? It's because

we don't do the simple things properly.

So to answer your question I I think the main thing I could I would encourage people in in any business is focus on the customer. Focus on the customer

the customer. Focus on the customer because you know that sounds really simple. Really try obsessed about them.

simple. Really try obsessed about them.

>> Be obsessed. Be obsessed. Anticipate

them. Think about what they really need.

Think about what you can bring to them that's incremental to all your competitors. By the way, that gets lost

competitors. By the way, that gets lost in everyday's business in at at SSI, at our competitors, at Goldman Sachs.

oftentimes we're so absorbed with what we think we want and we forget that actually the real answer is what the customer wants, >> right?

>> And I I would bet to you that applies to businesses outside of Wall Street. Okay?

But particularly Wall Street and because people on Wall Street are extremely smart, are extremely educated, are extremely aggressive and often times

they forget that there's a c a client sitting there that's waiting to be serviced.

>> So throughout your career?

>> Yes.

>> Tell me, do you remember if there is a a phone call like a calm phone call that you need to make to a customer to a client? Oh, what did you say?

client? Oh, what did you say?

>> Oh, am I this is uh Yeah. So, this is very specific to Wall Street. So,

imagine this on Wall Street. Okay.

You're in uh you're in, you know, I I I spent time in New York, Chicago, and London. Uh I think I I would come in at

London. Uh I think I I would come in at 5:45 in the morning. Okay. And uh the first calls I start making is around

6:15 a.m. in the morning. And there was

6:15 a.m. in the morning. And there was one client I had and his name is Hank Herman. He's in a lot of books. Hank was

Herman. He's in a lot of books. Hank was

a CEO of a firm called Wedell and Reed.

I would literally call Hank every and every morning before I call him, my hands would be shaky and my hands would be sweaty because

my focus was to deliver that incremental piece of information that no one else in the world could call Hank on. Because by

the way, while I'm calling Hank, Goldman's calling Hank, Morgan's calling Hank, BAML's calling Hank, Cityroup is calling Hank, those are just the big firms. there's another hundred little

firms that's calling him. So for me, I just I just, you know, those phone calls to me really sharpened my focus is every

morning at 6:15, my hands get sweaty because number one, do I have something that Hank would be helpful to Hank.

Number two, what if Hank asks me a question that I can't answer?

>> Exactly.

>> That was my routine literally for probably a good 10, 15 years, every morning.

>> Wow. And how did you how did you pull it?

>> I mean I I think over time because of that discipline and because of that focus uh you know frankly Hank and that firm called Wadell and Reed and that's you know it's a storied firm in the US

was really just the the the the core of my whole career.

>> So if you can give me the audience one piece of advice. If an investor or a colleague or your boss or somebody that come to you and you anticipate that they will give you a question and you don't

know how to answer, how you do how do you navigate that?

>> Oh, I I think look, it's it's it's it's a simple one. It's it's a simple one and it probably comes down to um I think one of my favorite words and I'm going to use it over and over again to even bore

your your listeners is authenticity.

You know there is magic in authenticity and it's also one of the things that really gets lost m it gets lost in everyday life. It gets lost in business

everyday life. It gets lost in business meetings. We all play these roles and we

meetings. We all play these roles and we just we almost lose our authenticity. So

to answer your question I have no problem saying Hank I don't know Hank let me come right back to you but come right back. Is that right? But I think

right back. Is that right? But I think you know being client focused but on the flip side of that be as authentic as you can. I I think people anywhere in the

can. I I think people anywhere in the world fall in love with au authenticity.

>> Yes. Yes. And I think there's a beauty in telling people that hey this is what I don't know but let me get back let me do my research get back to you with the right information.

>> Absolutely. And and by the way that's a gift when they ask you a question that you didn't know. They just gave you a real hint of something that that's on their mind. Okay. Right.

their mind. Okay. Right.

>> So, you have to look at that as less of a I'm embarrassed and said, "Oh my god, that's Come on. Come on. You It's

actually a blessing. You just let me know something that you care about that I didn't know."

>> Exactly.

>> That's so anyway, I I I love those moments actually. And then I became to

moments actually. And then I became to be very familiar and actually excited about them.

>> Right. So, talking about I don't know.

>> Yeah.

>> For the non-investors that are watching our show, >> why should I care about the stock market?

>> Oh, >> and why should I care about the capital market and >> Oh, I mean, there's there's so many different levels. Is that right? I mean,

different levels. Is that right? I mean,

there's so many different levels. I mean

I don't want to get to the academic level because you know um the stock market or the capital market intertwined with the economy. It needs to be intertwined with it over time drives a

country's development. And I think

country's development. And I think that's what's happening in Vietnam right now. For me, if I can take it down to

now. For me, if I can take it down to maybe answer in in maybe an incremental way, I've I've from day one, I've I'm just in love with the stock market. I

look at the stock market almost as a human being with different personalities, with fears, with anxiety, with excitement. It it's also a place

with excitement. It it's also a place that I feel if you choose this as as your career, you get to work with the the smartest, the most talented, the

most aggressive people out there. And if

you can survive like I have survived, you're pretty good.

>> You're pretty good. Is that right? And

so, so I I'm answering on different levels, you know. So academically, it's critical to a country's development to to have a a a healthy stock market. Of

course, it's a place to generate wealth and a place to lose money. Okay? But for

me, I've, you know, since I joined the the Wall Street business, I've just been in love with it. I' I've been in love with it. And that's why even at my age,

with it. And that's why even at my age, I'm 58 this year, I'm still I could work 24 hours a day because it it's that it's like my wife. It's that beautiful woman that I fall in love with and I just

can't stop thinking about it, >> you know. And by the way, the amazing thing about it, am every day is a new day in the stock market.

>> You're right. It just

>> it's every day is a new day. Is that

right?

>> Right.

>> And when you're a broker, >> information just Yes.

>> When you're a broker and particularly a global broker, even if you're sitting in Ho Chi Min City, you should know what's happening with the US market. You should

know what's happening to the Chinese market. You should generally know what's

market. You should generally know what's happening in Southeast Asia and you should really know what's happening in Vietnam. So imagine every morning you

Vietnam. So imagine every morning you have that buffet, that buffet that you can talk about, think about. And so I've always looked at it that way almost with

the excitement of a child every morning >> and you have kept that going for years.

>> Yes. I still love it. I still love it.

Yes. Yes.

>> Yeah. So, um, talking about the Vietnam capital market, >> why are you excit What are you excited about?

>> Yeah, I am. I mean, I I I I think I think, um, so a couple things. Um, since

I've come back from from New York, I believe that this is a once- in a generational moment for Vietnam.

>> Okay. And the reason I believe it is actually less about Vietnam itself because I think the Vietnam story has been beautiful. has been up young for

been beautiful. has been up young for quite a long time. VM

>> we have a beautiful people. We have a beautiful set of educated young, bright, >> enthusiastic.

>> Enthusiastic and we have been like that for a long long time.

>> Yeah. It's in our DNA.

>> Yes, it is in our DNA. Uh our spirit I would call it.

>> Yeah.

>> But we've been that in a world that was not quite ready for us.

>> Okay. So I think what's happened since co and now the changes in the world order the changes in the supply chain you know that's basic stuff the changes

around us within Southeast Asia is actually elevating Vietnam even the tariff situation really elevated us am I mean I we look back um on liberation day

the 46 number the 46 remember tariff that Trump threw out >> yes >> we all should look at that as a giftm M >> because for a moment the world said,

>> "Oh my god, Joy, why? Why? Why? Why%

I didn't even know Vietnam was that important, you know? I mean, if you think about it, you're sitting in Ohio and you're like, "Holy cow, why would Trump do this to this little country, you know?" Um, so I think I actually

you know?" Um, so I think I actually think um this the the reason I'm so excited about this, this is number one, this is a once in a generational moment for us. um it's a window and and again

for us. um it's a window and and again we can kind of go through the nuances of that >> but but I think more importantly I think um with the recent Footsie upgrade I don't I don't know if you're familiar

with that um we're at a tipping point >> right >> we're absolutely at a tipping point okay >> and we can go into that more but but um so I think the reason I'm so excited

about Vietnam at the um in this window of time is we are seeing an inflection in our capital markets all the while we're seeing an inflection in our economy me, >> right?

>> This is what you can call it. The stars

are aligned. I'll call it like the perfect storm. Either either way you

perfect storm. Either either way you want to look at it, it's it's an amazing moment of history for us where things are moving in the same order and uh all the while the world needs us more and

more, >> right? Yeah.

>> right? Yeah.

>> Wow. All I can think about it right now is liquidity, but let's get to that later on because it's all about liquidity.

>> My favorite word. My favorite word.

Yeah. in a in in a finance world is liquidity. Now when you talk about the

liquidity. Now when you talk about the window when I think about window you just have that.

>> You're you're brilliant. You're

brilliant. That that's that's that you know what with everyone that I've said this to no one has ever talked about the end of the window.

>> Yeah. Because you just have that one chance.

>> I I tell you so so here's my my warning almost. My warning is that exactly how

almost. My warning is that exactly how you're saying I I I think the world never stands still. Things come and go.

Opportunities come and go just like life. Is that right? Nothing ever lasts

life. Is that right? Nothing ever lasts forever. And I think this window of

forever. And I think this window of opportunity for us again where things meet, okay, that will change eventually.

Okay. And of course there are risks and we can talk about risks and stuff. So

here's my little bit of warning. Uh I

think the the the next three to five years for Vietnam is a just a golden moment and am if I'm wrong then then I

think it's just not going to be good because it's we've been given this opportunity >> to shine. Is that right?

>> And the world will move on. It it it it won't be fresh again. It it won't be.

And so uh I love the fact that you caught the end of the window because very few people think in those terms. >> Yeah. So coming back to this window a

>> Yeah. So coming back to this window a little bit and because we know that we all like Vietnam just get upgraded not yet until 2026.

>> So >> well actually we have been upgraded just technically. So just for your we have

technically. So just for your we have been upgraded. So we're we're

been upgraded. So we're we're technically in the emerging market, >> right, >> index by footsie, but the actual money the inclusion won't happen until September.

>> So by 2026, where do you see the capital will flow?

>> Um I think I think we have to think of this as a process.

>> Right. I think uh the first thing that I would like to highlight is the moment that Footsie announced uh this upgrade.

I think what most people don't appreciate is the global financial ecosystem, global brokers, global custodians

and and those investors who are indexed to Footsie and even some who aren't indexed to Footsie all of a sudden have to think about what to do about Vietnam.

So I think the motion is actually already starting and I think a very few people appreciate that. Um I get to see it because I sit at SSI >> and I also get to see it because I'm a

very global person so I have all these connectivity. So I think the way that uh

connectivity. So I think the way that uh investors and your audience should look at this is that uh this year I mean we've had such an

amazing year. I think our market right

amazing year. I think our market right now is just digesting all that's happened to us. But I think as we go into 2026

and the market anticipates the actual money being included in September, >> I think you're going to begin to see the market grind up. Okay? Because there are going to be people investing in Vietnam to anticipate that,

>> right?

>> Okay. Um and and then and then of course V because Vietnam is has so much more attention now. I think there will be

attention now. I think there will be incremental investors coming in even outside of the whole upgrade process.

Okay. And then of course in September we do expect approximately 1.5 billion USD to come in uh uh you know around that time. Okay. So I think that capital flow

time. Okay. So I think that capital flow will be going it you know what I anticipate is a gradual gradual money coming in with sort of a you know a

moment in in September. And if you ask me where it goes into Vietnam I mean I think you know the one thing about our market is we're still quite limited.

There's probably only a good my view a good >> 10 to 20 uh stocks that foreigners can really buy. Okay. Uh, I'm not here to

really buy. Okay. Uh, I'm not here to pitch stocks, but I think they're the obvious ones. Is that right? The the

obvious ones. Is that right? The the

most liquid the most liquid ones. So, I

don't know if that answers your question, but I think that's how listeners should think about how the market plays out and where the capital goes,

>> right? So, talking about

>> right? So, talking about for new rookie for example.

>> Okay.

>> Right. So,

>> more money coming into the market, >> more participants. I'm pretty sure there's going to be one big day or hot days in the market. Okay,

>> so I prepared this question for you for >> what's your beginner seat belt? One rule

to avoid overpaying.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> Or simply just for people to avoid making rookie mistake.

>> Okay. Okay. So, wow. Uh, by the way, I make rookie mistakes all the time, m. So

maybe um look I I think the dynamics of the Vietnam market will change dramat dramatically >> right >> as because what we're talking about is

big institutions coming into Vietnam mature and so I think the days of you know super volatility I think those days

are a little bit behind us and taking advantage of it. Okay. So to answer your question, I think um over time I think

um investors, the rookie investors should listen to Warren Buffett.

>> Oh yes. Yes.

>> Be greedy when other are fearful. Be

careful when others are greedy. By the

way, I think that that I think that mantra is important for life also, but I think it's particularly important for investing and I think over time in

Vietnam that will become more true as our market matures.

So that's why when like right now if you ask me what if if you had you know if you had a 100 D what would you do? I would I would start probably

you do? I would I would start probably buying as the market is digesting because right now our market I would say our market right now feels weak because it's going nowhere. But that's when you

should start thinking about accumulating >> and and the rookie mistake is trying to trade.

>> I I would say look I've been on Wall Street for for 20 years. I've been you with some of the smartest minds and the reality is we all realize we we really

suck at trading. Okay, we really suck at trading market time and all that stuff over time. It's just a fool's game.

over time. It's just a fool's game.

Actually, >> I remember I I actually uh watched a pock an interview actually with um Ken Griffith.

>> Ken Griffin Sadel and he said he has some of the best team members in the world >> and all they can do is >> beat the market by 53%. Absolutely.

>> And that is already >> Absolutely.

>> You know what? And everyone thinks that they can beat the market, but I just think it's it's extremely hard. It's

extremely hard. And yes.

>> Yeah. And I think I think um that's exactly what I'm I'm saying. And by the way, these you know, if you know Citadel and you know Ken Griffin, by the way, I'm a Chicago boy. I covered Yes.

>> I covered that firm when it was a little firm. So I know the history of that firm

firm. So I know the history of that firm very well, they they have the best minds. Um there's no way you can compete

minds. Um there's no way you can compete against them. Is that right? But I think

against them. Is that right? But I think part of the the education in Vietnam for your listeners is that the old the old market of Vietnam uh was much sl more

sloppy and inefficient.

Okay. Therefore, you might think you can beat you know whatever the market. But

as markets mature, they become more efficient and you're lucky if you can beat the market 51% of the time.

>> Right?

>> Okay. So then you have to you have to then lean on what Warren Buffett types of people is you invest over time you think about compounding and you don't

become so emotional.

>> Right. Yeah.

>> Right. And I I think there's a beauty into this as well because I feel like the power I I feel like right now a lot of companies are trading at a tremendous amount of multiple for

example but I just feel like >> you mean in Vietnam or around the world >> global market. Yes. Right. But I still believe in the power of compound interest in that be patient and

investing and have your own principles.

>> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. That so the power of compounding.

>> Yes.

>> You know, as an investor is is probably the most powerful force, but it's hard because we're human beings.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, we're human beings and we always think we're a little bit smarter and we're emotional and we check our accounts too. Even I do actually too

accounts too. Even I do actually too often. So,

often. So, >> yeah. So, and so since we said that it's

>> yeah. So, and so since we said that it's very hard to beat the market and you should maybe have a professional team working with you for example, I'm just saying. So, I I actually have a question

saying. So, I I actually have a question for you.

>> Um, so if I'm a CEO or a founder or with with a wealth manager, >> okay?

>> Right. And what are the three questions should I ask them each quarter if they're overviewing my portfolio?

>> Wow. I've never been asked this question. I I think the first thing um

question. I I think the first thing um if if I'm evaluating a and by the way, I do have a money manager, a wealth manager. So, I'm just thinking what do I

manager. So, I'm just thinking what do I what do I ask them? You know, first of all, I I certainly ask them my performance. Is that right? And and

performance. Is that right? And and

that's a tricky one. Is that right?

Because depending on your age, you know, um not everyone is just trying to get the biggest return. Some of us old people like me are much more po focused

on on preservation of my wealth. Okay.

And some of us think about wealth in much longer term perspective. So but it it does come down to the first question is how is my performance versus some benchmark >> right?

>> Okay. Because oftent times those who don't understand our business will if if if your money manager says to you I deliver to you 20%. Okay. Should you be

happy or sad?

>> I'll be very happy.

>> Well, well, okay. However, however am What if the S&P was up 30% finally? Then

you should be very upset, right? Okay.

Because blindly you could have put money into an S&P. You understand my point?

Yes. So, I think the first question is really about a performance versus the index in in my view. Okay. Simple. I

think the second thing is um I always focus on their process.

Do they have a real process and is the process re repeatable and sustainable?

Because even I can get lucky and buy Nvidia and claim that I'm the biggest genius in the world when in the reality I just got lucky and bought Nvidia if I right. So

right. So >> but I think it's important as a money manager that you have a real process of evaluating companies, evaluating stocks

and selecting things for the portfolio.

Um and then and then I I just also then always ask my managers how they see the future. Okay. And how they see the

future. Okay. And how they see the future. Is that right? Because it's

future. Is that right? Because it's

important for me to know that what they're thinking about. And um again, if I don't agree with them, I would give my perspective, but it's really important for them to think that how they're seeing the future and how they're

positioning the portfolio for that future. Okay. again to sort of assess

future. Okay. again to sort of assess their process uh and their thinking about your money.

>> Wow. So, and uh you have been a leader >> throughout your career and so what changes from being the top individual to

allocating um talents and higher talents and how do you see yourself in that process? you

know, in in truth, I don't really think I've changed that much. Um, in

truth, because I think um uh again, you know, I've been doing this for about 20 years. And when I think about it, oddly

years. And when I think about it, oddly enough, I was only a individual contributor for three of those years. So

the so roughly 17 years of my career on Wall Street, I've ran businesses and and I think for me there was never a real big transition maybe because of the way

I view business. I view my colleagues.

Um I I think one little thing that people don't know about me was I was quite an accomplished athlete. I was a wrestler. And by the way, Wall Street,

wrestler. And by the way, Wall Street, if if you really know Wall Street, people come from great schools, but a lot of them come for are athletes. um

they it's a you know they they appreciate team sport. It's that

intensity. It's it's all that. And I

think I think people who don't know me well won't appreciate that I I I come from an athletic background and I came I'm I was a wrestler and wrestling is an

interesting sport because it's very individual but you're also on a team.

Okay. Very much like Wall Street. You're

on a desk. Okay. you have your P&L, you have your clients, but then you have a full desk. Um, and and so you need to

full desk. Um, and and so you need to balance that. So for me, I I I don't

balance that. So for me, I I I don't remember a big shift because I think and maybe that's why I was selected right away to start leading people and running

businesses. Um, I think that's the first

businesses. Um, I think that's the first thing. Um and then I also have a

thing. Um and then I also have a particularly I would call unique in uh leadership style >> that has not been right all the time but

it's been right for me.

>> What is it?

>> Um I think um I think first and foremost if you ask me what is the role of of a leader I think the first role of a leader is to protect your troops. Like

to me it's like if if you said to me you're taking over the business, what's your first goal? My first goal is to protect my people. Okay, think about that. And I'm I'm not saying protect

that. And I'm I'm not saying protect them from physical harm, but protect their spirit, protect their uh confidence, protect their development

because too often leaders come in and they make people fearful, fearful of of making the wrong decisions and so on.

and in terms to me that this that crushes a spirit of a team. Right?

>> So so that's the the the first thing that I believe is my the number one role of my leadership is that aligned with that I think I uh and very consistent

with that I think I manage by inspiration. I don't manage by fear.

inspiration. I don't manage by fear.

Okay. And again that's that's I I tell you am that's not a 100% right. It's

it's very inefficient.

Okay. But through that inefficiencies, I have been able to turn businesses around. So if if you were a chairman of

around. So if if you were a chairman of the board and you came to me and said, "Tom, what is the weakness of your leadership style?" I said, "The weakness

leadership style?" I said, "The weakness is I'm inefficient.

>> I'm inefficient because I want to give you the opportunity to make mistakes. I

encourage you to make mistakes so you understand the boundaries. I don't

manage you by a spreadsheet, you And I manage you by sort of knowing what are your fears, what excites you, what inspires you, you know, what makes you

like me wake up in the middle of the night and saying, "I love this. I love

this." Okay, that's how I tend to manage people. And I've, by the way, I've done

people. And I've, by the way, I've done it to Americans. I've done it to Europeans Italians Parisians British I've done it to Chinese. And I I think

if you ask the people at SSI, I manage Vietnamese that way.

>> Okay. It's very inefficient. A m it's very inefficient, but it's the only way I know how to manage. And at 58, I'm not changing.

>> That's beautiful.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And so far it works. I think so.

So So I think for me it's never really I don't remember the shift. It's a little bit of my personality. I think it comes probably from my athletic background, you know, and that's if you're if you're on a team, you're always pumping each

other up, you know, and I I think that has stuck with me for a long time.

>> Yeah. I mean, with your story, I have something I can relate because I I actually watch F1 racing and that a lot

of people, they just focus on >> the person behind the wheel, >> but in order for that operation to just make that one car on the track, there's

one thou 1,300 people working on that car.

>> Absolutely. I I love that. I love that anal I love that story. Um because the one thing I I'm an I'm a front office person. Okay, I've always been a front

person. Okay, I've always been a front office but the one of the mantras that I like to share with with uh teams and businesses and when we celebrate when we

celebrate at SSI, I always invite the back office people, >> right?

>> Always. I mean, and I I love to give the speech. There's no front office without

speech. There's no front office without back office. And by the way, there's no

back office. And by the way, there's no back office without the front office either. Okay?

either. Okay?

>> Right. I really love that uh that analogy of F1 because I I I truly believe that.

>> Yes. So, and throughout your career um you travel the world. You've worked with so many people from different backgrounds. Was there a moment or an

backgrounds. Was there a moment or an anecdote that you that it has stayed with you and you want to share with me today?

>> It's a bit hard because I think I've had so many cool moments. So many cool moments. And you know, some of it I even

moments. And you know, some of it I even have to think about and recall because this my my life and my career I think has been a collection of just the most

amazing moments. Okay. But I think if if

amazing moments. Okay. But I think if if I could share one moment um you know the um I started on Wall Street September 11th of 2001.

>> Okay. I was um the graduating class MBA class at Meil Lynch and that was our first day of work. Uh, I was living in Chicago and so I flew out to New York

and sat in the building probably about I don't know maybe half a block away from the towers.

>> The Twin Towers.

>> Yes. So the moment I remember from that day was when um after the second plane hit um there was a lady I don't even know

who she was came into the we were on the high floor. We're watching the the first

high floor. We're watching the the first tower and we're watching people jumping out and people were screaming and yelling and the lady came in and said, "Don't leave the building. Don't leave

the building." Of course, for safety.

Well, guess what I did? I left the building. Okay. So, I took the elevator

building. Okay. So, I took the elevator down and I the moment I remember is stepping out and the world was raining paper.

I I don't know if you've ever been shared that moment, but I I still remember standing there and it was chaos. People were screaming, yelling,

chaos. People were screaming, yelling, running all over. I And I'm a Chicago boy. I didn't know where I was even. And

boy. I didn't know where I was even. And

I just still remember the world was raining paper. We were because when the

raining paper. We were because when the plane hit, of course, you know, papers flew all over the place. So, I remember and the reason I bring this up is because f first of all, uh I my

recollection is I think almost 50% of that class didn't never returned. They

just left the business, okay? Because

of, of course, the trauma. But I'll tell you one thing, and then maybe this teaches us about life and about markets.

If I were to put a $100 into the market on that day, that $100 would be definitely like $700, $800. Now, I mean, I I know I'm thinking in terms of

dollars and cents, but I think I think that thinking back about that moment, you know, and all the crisis, I would say to you that if I if we had another podcast and say, "Antom, this podcast is

about all the crisis in your life."

Okay. I would say everyone that I've experienced from 911 to the great financial crisis, I was actually in Vietnam and London at that time and then

of course COVID and many other crisis in between.

>> Right. Okay. What's amazing is I sit here at 58 and I look back and I'm like, number one, those crises make my story so much more beautiful. Number one, and

number two, as an investor, I I I should have been more Tom Lam.

>> Oh. Oh. Oh, yeah. Yes.

>> I should have been more Tom Lam in those days, >> right?

>> And and that's about markets, okay? It's

it's about life, but it's also about markets. Okay? And I

think that's what I would leave your your listeners with is that, you know, these special moments I talk about, they're not always just Tom win partying

and enjoying in private jets and traveling with CEOs. So much of my amazing life has been crisis. I've I

mean, this I' I've had a lifetime of crisis and it's what makes my life so cool. Is that right? So, and then as an

cool. Is that right? So, and then as an investor, you should welcome crisis. You

should welcome it when when when Trump slaps 46% of your face. That's when you should be buying.

>> You shouldn't be more fearful or >> No. No. But but that's but you know

>> No. No. But but that's but you know what? It's easy to say, but the reality

what? It's easy to say, but the reality for us is we're human beings, >> right? That's what makes life so

>> right? That's what makes life so difficult and so challenging, so interesting because you know exactly what you should do as an investor. But

because you're a human being, >> okay, the moment when you should be greedy, you're very fearful.

>> And when you're fearful, you should be more greedy.

>> Greedy and and not only in markets, but frankly in life, >> right?

>> You know, so I would encourage your listeners to think about not only life, not only investing, but life that way.

It reminds me of the old mantra volatility is your friend.

>> Got it.

>> So since we've been talking about the opportunity welcome crisis, tell me a little bit more about volatility in your term.

>> The reason I think people say volatility is your friend is volatility creates opportunities.

>> Right.

>> Volat, you know, it creates exit opportunities and it it it provides entry opportunities. And I think, you

entry opportunities. And I think, you know, if I could adjust a little bit, like Donald Trump, whatever you think of him, he's been amazing for traders because he creates volatility with his

tweets and his comments and and all this. And so, um, I think taking it back

this. And so, um, I think taking it back more home to Vietnam. I actually think over time the the Vietnamese market will become less volatile because you know

right now am you know that the our market is 90% retail and retail are just human beings like you and I and we are emotional but I think over time you know

with the footsie upgrade and the normal development of a market I would think that we're not going to be at 9010 anymore. My guess is we'll probably

anymore. My guess is we'll probably probably closer to 70 30 6040 which is sort of what you see in in other similar markets and that impact will make the

market more less volatile. Therefore it

probably creates less opportunities to trade as an individual investor. Does

that make sense?

>> Right. That makes sense. Yes. Yes.

>> I am so I am so thankful that you come to the show today. I've learned so much in the last 30 40 minutes. I don't even know.

>> Um, please and come back to us very soon because I want to know more. I want to know more about you and I want to know more about the capital market and I'm

sure the the audience after today we will have more participants into the market after today. Thank you so much for coming to the show today and thank

you so much for coming to Vietnam and and participate in this very narrow window but bring huge opportunity for Vietnam as a nation.

>> Thank you m and and it's for me it's a it's a privilege to be here. I I do come back to Vietnam as much of a student as a as a teacher. So So thank you for having me here. So

>> thank you.

Bye.