Wawrinka’s Farewell Season, Draper’s Injury News & The ATP Heat Rule | Served with Andy Roddick

[Music] Hey everyone, welcome to Served. Welcome

back to tennis.

Uh we're back.

Big news uh off the top obviously with Novvec releasing basically saying that he uh doesn't have anything to do with the the the PTPA anymore. We'll read the

full quote uh at the end of the show. Um

but JW, what uh what do you how do you cover this part of the year? Right.

right? Are we making too much about every set that's played, every, you know, boo boo that someone has coming out of the off season? Like, h how how hard do you cover traditionally

things that are happening on January 5th or 7th or 8th? Uh, as you're looking at them going into Australia, >> I noticed you did not say January 6th.

Um, I'd rather cover tennis than cover January 6th. You know, it's it's always

January 6th. You know, it's it's always you you know this. I mean, going into a major, you always sort of look at results skeptically. Is this player

results skeptically. Is this player really dinged up or are they just preserving themselves for the event where even a first round loss might bring a six-f figure check? I mean, the majors are that important that players

want to go in 100%. It's it's kind of like a benefit of the doubt time of year, right? So, if you win, hey, Hubert

year, right? So, if you win, hey, Hubert Kirkosh is uh Huie's back and he's dialing in serves and here's a player to watch in Australia and Boozes Monero plays a six love set against Coco. Keep

an eye on her. So if you if you have a good result, suddenly you've played yourself into uh at least sleeper contention at the major. And if you have a bad result, we say, well, they're just being hyper cautious because they're

much more important tournaments, i.e. a

major, than uh than the United Cup or whatever. So I I feel like for for these

whatever. So I I feel like for for these two weeks of the year, players really get benefit of the doubt. Um what what do you think? Yeah, I I think I would strongly value if someone caught a

heater before Australia, right, and won a tournament and won some matches. There

million leadup events and um so I'd give that a lot of credit getting out of the gates hot. Um a and also Taylor Fritz

gates hot. Um a and also Taylor Fritz losing a match or Koko having a bad set.

The whole point of going over this early is to knock some of the rust off like that that you're you're you don't choose it. It's not as if you you're going out

it. It's not as if you you're going out there and you're trying not to play well or you're going out with an insurance policy, but you go and schedule that way

so that if [ __ ] goes a little sideways in in the first week that you have enough time to to figure it out because you haven't been in your regular flow.

Like there is no way to recreate match reps in practice. You just can't do it.

And it's not like riding a bike. It

really it really it will be again for them at some point in this year, right?

And it will be probably very, you know, sooner rather than later when you're talking about the pedigree of player of a of a Fritz or a Coco. Um, but yeah, this is why you schedule. I actually had a conversation with with uh with Alex

Verv a couple weeks ago and one of the things we agreed on was like we we were both like I can't go we were amazed by how

like Roger would just go into a major you know without any matches and and and compete. Alcarez did it last year. Sard

compete. Alcarez did it last year. Sard

did it last year in Australia. Like I

don't have that level of confidence to go just fly blind in in my first match rep in two and a half months as a major.

I think it takes a very specific you know most most of us normies need some time and to kind of work through uh you know we wouldn't go record a Netflix special on standup without running it by

some comedy clubs first. Right.

>> Well detour. Did did you see was this thing on by any chance? Oh, was that the Will Arnett? You

Will Arnett? You >> You know, he did like five weeks of standup as his character before the movie. U just you brought it up and it

movie. U just you brought it up and it made me think, >> I mean, Adam Sandler did that once before and we caught him at the comedy seller and we thought he was bombing.

We're like, "Dude, this this is horrible." And he was practicing the bit

horrible." And he was practicing the bit that he did in that show of being a comic that bombs and he was seeing if people would believe it that he wasn't funny.

>> This is this is a complete side track, whatever, but it's the first week of January, so here we are. Um, would you all want to try that or is that like the scariest thing ever

>> to to like go out and like test stuff that you're I I would be petrified.

>> Like >> would you be scared of bombing?

>> Yeah.

>> I feel like I'd lean into it.

>> Would you really?

>> Yeah. I It wouldn't scare me to bomb.

Yeah.

>> That'd be fun.

>> A tight five.

>> A tight five.

>> Guys, sorry. Hi, I'm Andy. Have we met?

I've failed publicly very very often.

This is not that that's comedy seller with 12 people ain't going to say anything.

>> What uh so as long as you know it's it's the first week of January. We can take these detours. Have Have you thought

these detours. Have Have you thought about what your line to shut up the heckler would be?

>> No.

>> You thought of that one?

>> I will. Should I tell you this story about I had a heckler in Houston one time? This is This show has already gone

time? This is This show has already gone off the [ __ ] rails.

>> It's January, man.

>> All right. So, this is Here's your clip, Sophie. Get ready. You ready? Okay. So,

Sophie. Get ready. You ready? Okay. So,

I'm in Houston and we just finished a Davis Cup tie the week before tournament I've won a couple of times and you know there's a there's a you can tell there's a drunk guy you know he's he's all over

me for I'm playing Oliver March I think he played some doubles and was you know anyway so winning 63 you know 2 3-1 pretty pretty comfortably and I miss a

shot and I was like dang it and this guy goes you kiss your mother with that mouth fun.

>> And I said, "No, I kiss your mother with this mouth." And he ran down.

this mouth." And he ran down.

>> Well done.

>> He ran down and the security had to take care of him. But that was so I don't know. Um but I kind of would like to

know. Um but I kind of would like to know right?

>> Did the crowd give you like a Ooh, >> it was Well, it was one of those ones where like whoever heard it that I knew I hit it, >> killed me.

>> Buckled them.

>> Killed >> buckled them. Um,

>> which is which John, you had a point to all this and we just >> Sorry. Welcome to

>> Sorry. Welcome to >> No, go uh there there all sorts of great YouTube videos on how to uh how comics shut down hecklers. Sam Kenisonson takes the prize, but yours was pretty good. I

I got to say for for a tennis court format, um that's a good comeback.

>> He had been on me. I had been thinking about it for an hour and 12 minutes up to that point just to be just to be fair.

>> We lost the thread.

>> Uh so so should I just start over, welcome a serve or should we just do an awkward transition into something else?

You know what actually because I I think this is a good train. You were talking about getting matches and and Australia is a unique Australia is a unique environment given that it is the summer

it's hot you know it is getting matches in that environment.

>> Good question.

>> Just as important because if Roger can just walk in there without where is he getting the heat >> exposure? Roger doesn't sweat so that

>> exposure? Roger doesn't sweat so that makes it easier. That's a little bit easier. That's another that's a story

easier. That's another that's a story for another day where it freaked me out during a Wimbledon final one time. Um,

but we'll tell we'll tell that story another time. Uh, but yeah, so to your

another time. Uh, but yeah, so to your point, I would always do my track training in Austin during November and I was pretty aggressive with it. You know,

I I even missed masters sometimes because I wanted to start that like base of prep work, right? I I was able to avoid uh major injuries for a lot of my career.

>> Um, but I don't think that's an accident, you know? I think you build up and so you can take it and then you space and schedule work. So, I would do that, but then we would stop over uh a

lot of times to uh the big island in Kona on the way over and they have these courts that like the walls are made of lava rock and you just bake.

>> That's sick.

>> And so we would do 10 days of like the first three days was were hell. Like

you're just baking and but then you got to Australia and it wasn't as bad, right? And and obviously, you know, if

right? And and obviously, you know, if Australia turns up the heat, you feel like you're playing in a haird dryer sometimes. Like it's it's absurd. But

sometimes. Like it's it's absurd. But

yeah, I mean we would we also had what we would talk about like with our team you'd you'd be walking around be like oo who is good eye test and who is bad eye test.

>> Oh interesting.

>> And it was like if you see you know someone who skin look like the pastiest stuff you've ever seen. It's like oh they they're going to have a rude awakening this practice week or this tournament week because they obviously

have not been outdoors. They have not been training in the heat. And then

conversely, you'd see someone who looked like seven pounds thinner just tan. Just

when I was when I was ready in Australia, we got out there, I'd be hitting for four minutes. Flip the shirt off. Ready? Let's go. Like, we're all

off. Ready? Let's go. Like, we're all just posturing. I mean, the but the eye

just posturing. I mean, the but the eye test is like a real thing to your point.

When you get down there, you can see who's been like, you know, who who's a little pale and just waiting for their freckles connect to connect in the sun and who's actually been, you know, you come down there in full tan and full, you know, situations. It's like, oh,

this person's actually been somewhere hot uh doing work, but you get those there's a million of those like little tails uh in in the locker room. I got to

tell you, one of the things that I was disappointed to see and it's kind of becoming it seems like it's becoming pretty concerning was the Draper

withdrawal from from Australia. And I

just it makes me sad because of how well he played at the beginning of last year through April through the French Open.

um and to pull out of the US Open after the first round to not play anything and then you have months, right? Like

it's it's it's hard to kind of pull a rabbit out of the hat with injury and like you need time to recover when you've had months and you're pulling out of the Aussie Open three or four weeks in advance.

That's that seems concerning to me.

That's like, oh gosh, I hope I hope this isn't like one injury in in speed bump.

Ju just 10 minutes ago, they actually just BBC just posted that Draper is set to return to action after over 5 months out of injury in Great Britain's Davis Cup tie against Norway in February.

>> I hope so. I hope that I hope that's right. I mean, that's that's great news.

right. I mean, that's that's great news.

I mean, he's obviously like incredibly marketable. He's from, you know, you

marketable. He's from, you know, you need to market people. You know, Draper, if he's winning going into Wimbledon, that's great for tennis, right? The

coverage, everything that he kind of adds to the game. And you know, we are kind of victims of the moment, but he is one of the guys who has the weaponry.

He took out Carlos and Indian Wells last year, right? He has the weaponry to to

year, right? He has the weaponry to to to be a disruptor and and to win there and on different surfaces. So, that's

what gets my attention in the offseason is like, gosh, you hope this isn't overly concerning. And when I saw that,

overly concerning. And when I saw that, I kind of just went, oh, that's that's I don't like that. JW,

>> what? Let me ask you two questions. One

of them, this draper injury is a weird one because it also seems to affect the bone. Um, and yeah, he's I mean, he he

bone. Um, and yeah, he's I mean, he he talked about this there. He did did a YouTube video that was very um poignant about what he's going through. Um,

Arthur Feast, we've talked about uh Pgaruna, Jack Draper. Those are three ascending stars under age 25 missing big chunks of time with three different

injuries. Um, in injuries are part of

injuries. Um, in injuries are part of sports. you you uh you you you know this

sports. you you uh you you you know this is you're using your body, it stands to reason you're going to get hurt. Does

tennis have a problem here or do you I mean sort of where on the continuum of we need a panel to address this versus sports are sports and [ __ ] happens.

Where where do you lie?

>> I mean we're going to we're going to get people to just turn this off because we're going to end up talking about schedule a little bit. We're going to end up talking about you know it's not actually totally dissimilar to what's

going on in the NBA. Like you look at the usage rate of the top 50 contracts in the NBA and they've mi I'll get it wrong slightly right but they've missed something like 40% of the games like the

top 50 contracts in the NBA. It's some

insane number this year. Bigger,

stronger, faster, more extreme is going to lead to blowing out tires. It just

is. Um, you know, when I get concerned is like you mentioned bone. I'm like, h that's not a that's not a groin pull, right? That's not a sprained ankle. You

right? That's not a sprained ankle. You

know, those things like, oh, that sucks.

You hope the timing of a sprained ankle doesn't ruin your season or doesn't affect it in a major way. But like feast with a, you know, a stretch fracture in your back and like the these are

pressure injuries. Holarun out of

pressure injuries. Holarun out of nowhere snapping his Achilles at you know, 22 years old is it stinks. Um and

it it is something that we need to have a very like sober and serious view about. We cannot as tennis have the view

about. We cannot as tennis have the view of like, oh, they'll get back at some point. No, we we have to take player

point. No, we we have to take player health very seriously. And I hope there's a full-scale investigation as to what's changed, what the difference is,

where and why it's happened, what surfaces it happen, like all of those questions that I I I don't think I know the answer to beyond overuse. And the

game is just getting stronger, right, and faster and like more physical, which leads to more blowouts, you know? You

know, but it just gets to, you know, my number one issue and people hear me talk about it to the point where it's like, okay, we get it.

We know the thing and but it's it's it's the answer to many many questions. The

schedule is long. You have to be able to physically prepare, right? So, when I was playing, it was November, December.

I'm building up armor. I'm building up armor for my body to withstand the next three months on hardcore. And then that doesn't last for the entire year. You

have to keep building it. So I

scheduled, you know, two or three weeks where it was a lot in April where it was mostly body work, track, lifting, you're creating that next set of armor for the next two or three months. And right now,

if you do that, you're missing out a lot. I mean, it's just it's it's it's a

lot. I mean, it's just it's it's it's a tough thing. So we do need to keep tabs

tough thing. So we do need to keep tabs on these young guys having these like blowout type injuries, not tiny ones.

Well, we're gonna have Hogar on next week.

>> I cannot wait for that, by the way.

>> Really excited. Talk to him about just the state the state of the the tour and get some insights on the guys that are on it and see how he's doing.

>> It'll be nice. It'll be great. We can

just ask the question directly uh directly to him. So, I'm excited because, you know, one thing that, you know, we've had great interviews, right?

And one thing that I never want to do, be or become as an analyst is someone who pretend like I don't want to pretend like I know what Carlos

what his ball feels like, right? I know

there there are plenty of people where it was like you'd be watching Rough and I'd hear someone say, "Well, you just got to take that on the rise and come in." I'm like, "Then you haven't felt

in." I'm like, "Then you haven't felt Rafa's ball."

Rafa's ball." >> Interesting, >> right? So, I I think I'm so happy that

>> right? So, I I think I'm so happy that Holar's coming on. I'm happy that Francis came on. I always want a bridge to the current players to understand what I couldn't possibly understand,

right? So, I'm very excited for for

right? So, I'm very excited for for Hogaruna to come on. Um, I don't know him at all either, which is also very exciting. You know, we've we've kind of

exciting. You know, we've we've kind of built this show on on relationships and easy conversations with people that, you know, I have a history with. Um, and I think it's really important to have

current voices in the mix adding value to our show. JW,

>> you you never you never talked to him?

>> You haven't talked to him? I think I've I think I've met him in passing. I've

never I've never talked to him for I haven't talked to him for more than 45 seconds. High bye.

seconds. High bye.

>> He he is >> he he's absolute open book and by accident or design. I think he really is enjoying and leaning into talking about what he's going through and whether

that's just his fallback personality or whether that's part of I mean he I talked to him a few weeks ago. I don't

think he he said he's not dealing with a sport with a therapist yet. Um, but he's very open about everything he's gone through and what he needs to do to get better and what life is going to be like when he gets back. And I I think he's

very open to having a a candid conversation. I think you'll enjoy that.

conversation. I think you'll enjoy that.

Let me let me ask you um tangentially to all this. I don't know if you saw the uh

all this. I don't know if you saw the uh the ATP has new a new heat policy, heat and humidity policy. Um it's basically what the women have, you know, you're playing I think doubles

as well, but but one one player can say I need a break in between sets. I can

give you some of the details now if you want. So effective immediately they

want. So effective immediately they introduced a mandatory cooling break >> using the wet bulb globe temperature which is effectively like a mixture of the humidity effects evaporated cooling

calculated with ther you can look it up online it's nerd >> but it's a a 10-minute break is allowed when the wet bulb globe temperature hits

86 86.2° 2 degrees Fahrenheit or 30.1° C enabling cooling and coaching play is suspended >> 86° for this thing.

>> 86.2 but it's wet bulbs. So it's like it's >> it's feels like you know when you get the thing >> it feels like 86.

>> I don't know. That's my wife turning up the heat channel you're not going to finish the things >> play is suspended if it exceeds 90 degrees FHE.

>> That's every day in Australia. How are

we going to get through a tournament?

I'm going to look up the wet bulb temperature curve.

>> Well, I mean, for for the record, I think this is just tour. I think the the majors have their own heat and humidity policy, so I don't think this would be the Australian Open, but no, it's that's a good point. That seems like a pretty low threshold, doesn't it?

>> That's every day. And like, how are you ever going to get through a tournament in Washington or Cincinnati?

>> I don't I don't know.

>> Like every day is 90 degrees and it like when it's 78 there in the summer in the morning, it feels like 95.

>> And this this isn't a straight this this is a wet bulb, right? So, it's not just a straight.

>> What does that mean? Everyone keeps I feel like everyone just keep I feel like this is a term I've never heard before and we're never going to stop hearing it now.

>> Wet bulb temp. Hold on. Are we

>> Are you saying bulb?

>> Bulb. Bulb.

>> Bulb.

>> Wet bulb.

>> Yeah. It's It's a comprehensive heat stress index that measures how hot it feels in direct sunlight. Combining air

temperature, humidity, wind speed, solar radiation into one number to assess risk for humans during physical activity.

developed by the US military and is used by the military, OSHA and sporting organizations to set guidelines for work and exercise in the heat.

>> So when the military is doing this, does clothing have any because they wear like full everything, so it's going to be hotter for them.

>> No, it didn't didn't list it.

>> Didn't list it.

>> I mean, you know what I think it's lost in this? I mean, this is the this is the

in this? I mean, this is the this is the WTA policy, so clearly they've dealt with it and we haven't had to play till 3 in the morning. Um, I think one thing that we forget is it's not just the

players that are out there in these conditions, but their officials, their fans, their ball kids. But I I mean, I think this probably a discussion for another time. The the three hottest, you

another time. The the three hottest, you know, the three hottest years uh recorded temperatures in history, uh, 2023, 2024, and 2025. Um, the planet's

not getting cooler and, uh, tennis needs to reckon with this. But I I I I don't think these are just to be clear, I think this is just an ATP policy, and I think the majors have their own.

>> Okay, so I I found a calculator online.

If it's 90° outside with 70% relative humidity, the wet bulb would be 81.8°.

>> I will tell you my first knee-jerk like a former player, and you never want to like I'm trying to like have patience with this, and all cards on the table, I I couldn't have I couldn't have it hot

enough on the court. I loved to bake. I

did not want to play in 48° in Hamburg and I wanted to absolutely bake not because I liked it because I hated it less than someone else. And when the

ball jumped, it was good for and also dealing with it was a lot of times and it's different for different people. I

understand that some people are, you know, more prone to enjoying it or, you know, less affected by it, but a lot of times it was about preparation. I will

tell you that nothing would have pissed me off more than being up two sets or being down a set and then winning two and feeling like you're you have your fist around someone and they are failing

physically and then to have like the last thing I want also is to go from extreme hot to go sit in an air conditioner air conditioned room for 15

minutes. My likelihood for injury coming

minutes. My likelihood for injury coming out of that cool down is more. Right?

It's the same reason why you don't go out 10 minutes after you've finished working out, right? You don't stop in the m you keep you break for, you know, little moments of time. Um, I'm torn on

this one. I'm sure this is, you know, to

this one. I'm sure this is, you know, to protect the players, also to protect the tours from from, you know, you know, liability and, you know, that whole

world, Mike, of legal liability. Um,

>> you know, so I I guess I try to understand it. Like I don't I I I can

understand it. Like I don't I I I can already tell I'm going to get annoyed by the term wet bulb.

>> You know how they measure it?

>> Wet bulb.

>> They wrap a wet towel around a regular bulb. A regular thermometer.

bulb. A regular thermometer.

>> What bulb?

>> The bulb at the bottom. Light bulb.

>> Thermometer. Bulb.

>> A thermometer. They wrap a towel around a thermometer.

>> Yep. Really scientific.

>> Does someone have that job like at Center Court?

>> Yeah. Remember our last show when we were doing uh fake resumes of uh Sam?

>> Yeah, >> we've been gone a month. I forgot about that.

>> The LinkedIn job post for the Cincinnati Open for the Wet Bulb operator.

>> What if we put up Cuz no one listens to the show. What if we put up a fake

the show. What if we put up a fake LinkedIn? Can you put up a fake LinkedIn

LinkedIn? Can you put up a fake LinkedIn offer?

>> You can just put up a real one. I mean,

>> what if we had an office wet bulb operator?

>> Just our analyst or wet bulb analyst.

>> Any outdoor live show. What's the name of the guy on NBC that does all the calculations on election day? We need

that person to be on our web person.

>> Kornaki.

>> Kaki. Let's get Kaki on to be our wet ball analyst.

>> All right. If you all haven't >> It is good. It's going to protect the players.

>> If you all haven't already turned this episode off, >> uh Venus JW, like I feel like every time she gets a wild card now, it's the same conversation. People are going, "She

conversation. People are going, "She didn't qualify for the tournament." And

then you have people like me going, "She's [ __ ] Venus Williams." you know, is there anything changed because I feel like we had this conversation before US Open and people are like acting like it's shocking again.

>> No, I I feel like this this conversation is has gotten tiresome. We uh are skeptical of wild cards. They fly in the face of fairness. We need to acknowledge that there are some times where you need

a mechanism to get in a star player. As

far as I'm concerned, uh do it like golf, right? If if you've won an event,

golf, right? If if you've won an event, you get in in perpetu. We we shouldn't even be debating whether Stan gets into Australia. No, you disagree.

Australia. No, you disagree.

>> Oh, Stan's different. I I perpetuity like there's a reason, you know, 52 year olds don't play tennis.

>> Well, they're not I mean active players, you know, I don't we don't want to see uh labor unretired to enter a draw.

>> Well, to to like counter you on something that I agree with you with, which is I'm sure not annoying at all.

You know, if there were I my first would have been like, have you been an active player in the last two years?

>> Right. Stan still plays tennis. He still

beats players. He's still 150. He's

still, you know, getting in challengers.

But I was going to say that and then I realized that Venus didn't play for like two and a half years before she came back at the US Open last year. So, I

would have failed my own point of reason. Do

reason. Do >> don't you feel like it would it would be one? So, you look at who gets these wild

one? So, you look at who gets these wild cards and the fact that these are used and they're they're swapped for reciprocal arrangements and management companies use them to induce players to sign with them. These are commodities.

So, you may as well give it to the player who uh has actually compiled the resume. I have zero problem with Venus.

resume. I have zero problem with Venus.

I hope Stan gets one. If Azaranka needs one, she should get one. It's the wild card who has been promised this for signing a contract that we uh should take issue with. Or the, you know,

French player because this got traded in some back room. That's what we should be taking umbrage with. But, uh, you know, we have this debate every tournament. I

I do think, um, I don't know if you want to talk about Venus and Stan. I I just I don't know why. Maybe it's where I am in life. I I think and I I don't know. I'm

life. I I think and I I don't know. I'm

curious if you have this instinct at all, but this ability to downshift and say, "I used to win majors. I ain't

winning majors anymore, but I just like tennis. I like competing. I like being

tennis. I like competing. I like being out there. I like the rhythms." Whatever

out there. I like the rhythms." Whatever it is, the self-discipline, and I'm not playing to hold trophies, but I don't want to give this thing up.

I find that so not just admirable, but kind of moving, kind of kind of poignant in its way. I do do you have that instinct at all? Do do you even get that? I mean, you you left pretty much,

that? I mean, you you left pretty much, you know, not far from the peak of your powers. Do Do you get this instinct? I

powers. Do Do you get this instinct? I

mean, Stan Stan has a teenage daughter.

Venus is 45 years old. Do Do you get this at all?

>> I respect the hell out of it. I'll tell

you that much. We had this conversation a bunch when like Murray was 40 or 50 in the world. Yeah, you're not play I'm

the world. Yeah, you're not play I'm like, are you you're worse at your job than he will ever be. Like he could play till he's 50. Like, give me a break. Um,

it's it's it's weird.

I had I was miserable when I woke up thinking that I knew that I couldn't win a major and that

killed me. Like I couldn't I would lose

killed me. Like I couldn't I would lose and I would put stock in it and I would like I needed to feel it. And it's weird. My

progression was I didn't play for a long time after I retired. I would play like little, you know, paid one nighters or like customer tennis here and there, but I never went out and just played for for

fun. And now I'm at the place the last

fun. And now I'm at the place the last two years where I go and play for fun most days. And I love it. And it's the

most days. And I love it. And it's the best ever. And I wish I wish I could

best ever. And I wish I wish I could have gotten through I wish I could have gotten through my own mental [ __ ] earlier and just enjoyed it for what it was. So I'm simultaneously I don't know

was. So I'm simultaneously I don't know that I had that gear. I wish I did because they're better than me for it.

My love of the game at that moment in my life needed results. It was results-based. I

needed results. It was results-based. I

liked results more than I actually liked the playing of the matches. I wish that I would have given some time. I wish

that like you know I for you know I retire five years later I would go play an exo and beat someone who was top 10

or 20 30 in the world right like and I I know there was more um I never came close to coming back but anyone who says like they shouldn't be doing it like who

are you to tell them they can't do it?

One's won seven majors, one's won three majors. How how on how on earth

majors. How how on how on earth do you think that you get an opinion on this?

She's taking a wild card from someone else. Again, I'm just going to say this.

else. Again, I'm just going to say this.

A wild card is given to someone who is undeserving based on ranking already.

She's not taking a spot from someone who has earned a spot based on the cutoff.

Same with Stan. Now, if I'm tennis Australia and all these great champions who add value to my event want to come and play and I hold the cards, great. I

would call the USA and I'd be like, "We're getting a wild card into the US Open. Put it on Put it on someone else.

Open. Put it on Put it on someone else.

You It's okay to get something back, right? Whether it's Bush Dodd or Basil

right? Whether it's Bush Dodd or Basil or whatever it might be. If there's a young, you know, Aussie man or male or female player, I'm fine with that, too.

I'm fine with I'm I'm fine with that, you know, trading of like kind of earn whatever it is, but just the simplest argument that you hear is they're taking

a spot from someone who's deserving. No

one who gets a wild card is deserving of a main draw spot. Otherwise, they would be in the main draw. We have protected rankings for people coming back from injuries that protect their spots in the

draw. They're not taking a spot from

draw. They're not taking a spot from anyone. Are they potentially getting a

anyone. Are they potentially getting a wild card over someone who is an upandcomer?

Sure. Who deserves that spot more? I

might argue it's the person who's won Wimbledon five times.

I don't know. Go to qual. I would have never ever ever in my life been offended. And I was lucky because they

offended. And I was lucky because they were searching for an American kid. So I

I had wild cards and then I won tournaments and then I was in, right?

But I would have never ever been offended. I went to my hometown of

offended. I went to my hometown of Austin, Texas to play a challenger when I was 17. 17. Just turned 18 and

I'll get in trouble for saying it. It

was widely suspected and we're pretty sure that we knew that they were selling the wild cards. I obviously wasn't going to pay for a wild card and so I was in qualies. Was I pissed? Sure. Did I use

qualies. Was I pissed? Sure. Did I use it? Sure. Guess what happened?

it? Sure. Guess what happened?

Qualified and won the [ __ ] thing.

then you don't have to take wild cards anymore. But at no point did I have an

anymore. But at no point did I have an actual argument that I was deserving of that main draw spot. Could I be pissed that they was they were being shady with them? Yes. Did I skip the event cuz I

them? Yes. Did I skip the event cuz I didn't want to play qualies? No. I

bitterly got my way through. You can't

imagine me being bitter about something.

>> Never. Never.

>> But then we got the win. See

what you're looking forward to.

>> Um yeah. So I I have no issue with it.

Um JW, I do want to spend some time.

We'd be wildly remiss if we've spent a lot of time on Venus. You know, last year at the US Open was I loved it because it was a massive love fest for her that

entire summer starting in DC through uh you know, taking a set off of Muhova to the doubles run with Leila Fernandez. Uh

we've probably gone too far into this conversation without saying congratulations on getting married also.

Amazing. That's right. Fantastic.

>> Amazing. Um, apparently the honeymoon's in Australia.

>> Uh, but amazing. Amazing. I have known Venus since we were kids. She is the nicest, classiest, smartest, one of the smartest people I've ever been around.

Right. Like she doesn't give you much in the face when she's playing and, you know, she is is guarded sometimes and

she is an absolute just nearperfect person. Like I I just I love her. Uh, I

person. Like I I just I love her. Uh, I

think she's fantastic. I hope she plays as long as it brings her happiness, you know, and and also if someone doesn't give her the wild card at some point in

her future, I'm not going to be upset about that either, >> right? Like I I I'd say I probably would

>> right? Like I I I'd say I probably would have, but I can't tell the French Open to give her a wild card. They probably

won't, >> you know? So, I e either way, she's not deserving because she's hasn't played enough to get in the main draw. If they

give her one, great. Totally understand.

That's a value add to the tournament. If

she doesn't, what are we gonna say?

>> She's not in on merit. That's it. Should

be a very simple.

>> JW, we need to spend some time on on on Stan Stan the man standal. Um, give us give us kind of your thoughts and then I kind of have some thoughts too because

it was he wasn't one of the guys that came out at 17 18 and was three in the world. Can

world. Can >> can you level set that he he announced he announced that Stan Morinka announced that this will be his final season on tour? Yes, it will be Stamol Rinko's

tour? Yes, it will be Stamol Rinko's final season on tour. Um, yeah. So, good

good call. This happened while we were off. I'm still a little rusty, too. I

off. I'm still a little rusty, too. I

need those losses in Brisbane to get me back up to speed. Um,

>> read too much into this, >> but just talk a little bit about about Stan, his progression, kind of what you think and how he will be uh remembered.

JW I >> I mean, I I think honestly, tell tell me if I'm wrong, I I think these last few years will factor into I mean, the the top line is going to be the three majors

he won. Um, this was always someone by

he won. Um, this was always someone by sort of dent of country of origin. He

was always a bit in Rogers shadow and he's sort of Rogers Rogers little brother. And then he has this mid-career

brother. And then he has this mid-career good to great which also happened to be the name of the uh the coaching alliance that he was playing under. And all of a sudden in this compressed window he wins three majors, three different ones. I

mean he's he's a Wimbledon away from a career major. So he wins three different

career major. So he wins three different majors. Took down Novak um in the finals

majors. Took down Novak um in the finals of two of them. beat Novak in the in the third and really reccharacteriz this was a real transformation really sort of recarerized his career got to number

three in the rankings won three majors and suddenly this wasn't um you know the guy with a nice white then guys guy with a nice one-handed backhand who happened to play Davis Cup with Roger every now

and then this was a legitimate player so much so that we talked uh at times about big big four and big five with Stan and Andy Murray so he he goes along has this

sort of mid mid to late career bump that really redefineses him as a tennis player. And the last five or so years,

player. And the last five or so years, there have been some injuries, but he has hung on and he has found that not unlike Venus, he just likes competing.

He's very open about the fact he's not doing this to win a fourth major. Um,

but there's there's something to be really admirable. He's I think he won

really admirable. He's I think he won four I don't have I think he won like four tour matches. I mean, he's not had great success, but you know, he just a few days ago beats Arthur Renderesh 76 and the third in a three-hour plus

match. So, there's still some some magic

match. So, there's still some some magic in that wand. And this will be his last year. He's in his 40s. He turns 41 in

year. He's in his 40s. He turns 41 in the spring. Um, you know, that's another

the spring. Um, you know, that's another part of this whole thing, too. I mean,

don't you want to give a former champion a sendoff at the event in terms of these? I mean, this could be his last

these? I mean, this could be his last Australia. This could be Venus's last

Australia. This could be Venus's last Australia. This could be Craig Kylie's

Australia. This could be Craig Kylie's last Australia. Why would you want to

last Australia. Why would you want to deprive these people of the experience?

But, but I think Stan, he'll go in the Hall of Fame. Three majors is going to be number one. But I think his hanging on and just love love love of the game stuff. It sounds almost hokey, but I

stuff. It sounds almost hokey, but I think there's there's something that really it's it's a window into his personality. It's a window into his

personality. It's a window into his relationship with tennis. And I think there's something really cool about a guy north of age 40 saying, "I'm not playing for the trophy. I'm playing

because I still really like this freaking sport and everything it brings me."

me." >> So, I spent New Year's Eve getting to Spectrum Center here in Charlotte early.

And the reason I did that, I was there two hours early and I took our son and his two little friends. And the reason I wanted because I wanted them to watch

Steph Curry go through his pregame progressions. Right. So you get to the

progressions. Right. So you get to the 25 minutes of what the coach that goes through with him. I don't think they said a word to each other the entire

time. And he went through his routine,

time. And he went through his routine, which he's now infamous for. You see it on, you know, Tik Tok and whatever else young people watch that, you know, throwing up a half quarter at the last

second. But that's

second. But that's that's not the show for me. The show is going out and how does he add to his legacy now? It's

like championship or bust, right?

playing a game in the middle of the day in Charlotte like it's his hometown, but coming going through the same thing every day and having a love of that discipline and a love of that sacrifice

is why I wanted the three boys to watch him go through his progressions, you know, the one foot shots that and also the fact that like it blew me away. He's

done this so many times with this person that if he hit three in a row from this corner, the guy threw the ball to the next spot and Steph just automatically went there. They had done it so many

went there. They had done it so many times together, focused and he still cared if he made each shot, right? And then you'll go see other

right? And then you'll go see other players who aren't Steph Curry go and, you know, throw the ball around for seven, eight minutes and walk off.

Stan is that Steph Curry type person with his preparation, right? I remember

talking to Danny Valver who was coaching him uh later in his career. Is this is probably five years ago at the Open, you know? And even at that point, you're

know? And even at that point, you're going, "Well, how many, you know, how's he doing? Is he?" And he goes, "Andy, he

he doing? Is he?" And he goes, "Andy, he still wakes up every day and I'll see him at noon and I'll be like, "What'd you do this morning?" He's like, "I went and ran three miles in Central Parker."

He said, "The guy is a machine. He's an

absolute machine. He loves it. He is as motivated at 37 and 36 that as he was at 26. And I think that's the point you're

26. And I think that's the point you're getting at. And like I don't know that I

getting at. And like I don't know that I could I don't know that I had that gear when the prize and the carrot wasn't in front of me. And I sure as hell respect people who can do it not having that

carrot and knowingly not having uh that carrot. He's also one of the few

carrot. He's also one of the few I mean maybe like Murray and Stan and maybe I'm maybe Del Potro. I'll throw

him in that that that category. Maybe

like a song about like on certain days, but like consistently their best stuff could beat the big three in a given match. Now is is headto-heads against

match. Now is is headto-heads against the big three. You're still behind like like all of us. Tough, rough, and delivering your best stuff. Like I could

get to the final and I couldn't knock off, you know, Roger when he was playing his best. I tried my ass off in a three

his best. I tried my ass off in a three out of five set format. I couldn't do it. or I didn't do it. He did it, you

it. or I didn't do it. He did it, you know, and and then Rafa the first time was like battling a back injury. So,

you're going, okay, you know, you you would have liked to actually seen that played. And then what does he do? He

played. And then what does he do? He

goes and beats Novak in two slam finals at the French Open after Novak beat Rafa, by the way, one of those years >> a as as Novak was going for the career slam. And I I think when he lost to

slam. And I I think when he lost to Rafa, I mean, when he beat Rafa and Rafa had the bad back, I think he had beat Novak previous in the tournament. um you

you played him, you know, we don't often get to have this conversation with active players, but he's one of them. Uh

>> what was you like on the other side of the net?

>> He worked because early in his career, his serve was okay. And I actually I I had a bunch of matches like I played him in Rome in the semis and we played one game and my back fell apart and like I I

had spasms and I couldn't move and I had to like stop. And then we were supposed to play in Shanghai one year and I blew out my knee like didn't play again for the year, you know, ACL, MCL, the whole

thing. Um, so I don't know that I have a

thing. Um, so I don't know that I have a like a super fair barometer like when he connected, you felt the weight of shot like it like you felt when it was Rafa.

It felt like an explosion. And the thing that set him apart was like you were always ready for him to take your head off. like the threat of someone's right

off. like the threat of someone's right hook that you know if it catches chin you're you're sleeping is is a big deal.

Um not the fastest guy but like the most self-aware person to where if he got on a string he was going to take a rip because he knew that he could hit himself out of trouble instead of

running himself uh out of trouble. Um

one of the things I've talked about many times with him is you would go big serve and early in his career he would take these big swings. Roberto did it against me over and over and over again where he would try to like come over returns and

I'm like he's not going to be able to catch up with with 136 consistently.

Stan started, you know, blocking chips and it was a learned practice that he put all the time. Then the second one he would unload on. Um, so just the progression and the pursuit of of

greatness is something that I I really respect because he's not the guy that came out and he was good I think 19 I think he broke top 10 but then went back and for a while he was floating between

15 30 you know would have good runs and was streaky but um a product of work and a product of an elite skill and that was bashing your face in and also just

opening up the shoulders like the best players in the history of our game had to respect his punching power every time they played him. And to be able to

produce your best stuff against the best people, uh, not just like one time, but three times is is special. Um, and I think especially when he's, you know,

when you look back at his career and see what he did against those Giants on their stages, um, I don't think you can underell that ever.

>> I'll give you I'll give you a quick little anecdote. He beat remember Brian

little anecdote. He beat remember Brian Baker from, uh, Yeah.

>> from Tennessee.

>> Tennessee.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, he he beat Brian Baker to win the Rolling Girls boys event. And I remember uh and and Roger

event. And I remember uh and and Roger was already I don't know if Roger had even won Wimbledon yet, but but Roger was already being talked about. And you

sort of said, "Oh, man. There's another

kid, another Swiss player. What's in the water?" Haha. And I remember somebody

water?" Haha. And I remember somebody saying, "Well, first of all, he's from, you know, he's from Geneva. He's from

the French side. So, he's not g this is not going to be uh Roger Jr. And also, it's just a question of whether this guy wants to work." And he even as a early in his career, you know, he he may have

had 10 extra pounds and he sort of had that that farmer. He had that sort of Big 10 wrestler build. And the question when he wins Rowan Garrow's Junior Boys is is is this guy basically is he

willing to put in work. And um it may have taken a few years, but we got a resounding answer and here we are 20 years later and he's he's still at it.

>> He is a barrel of a human. Like he is he is that like you feel like you you punched him in the arm and the arm there might be some recoil with your

fist. Like he is he is he's he's thick

fist. Like he is he is he's he's thick twoc's like but like in a fit way. And

everyone used to kind of you know is he I'm like have you has anyone ever seen him get tired? And they're like no not really. I'm like so what are we talking

really. I'm like so what are we talking about here? Maybe it's movement. Maybe

about here? Maybe it's movement. Maybe

he can catch a step or a half step, but like he wasn't like one of the, you know, guys who you thought you were just going to wear down. And even if he was getting worn down, he just blow your

head off. Like he had that power and he

head off. Like he had that power and he had the awareness. Like that's not always those don't always go hand in hand. You

know, you're kind of fighting your nature. But like he knew when to punch,

nature. But like he knew when to punch, he knew when to sit, he knew when to make, he knew when not to let the person hit.

>> Present present tense. What's that?

Present tense.

>> Clutch serve.

>> You just beat Renderneck.

>> Yeah. Yes. And I'm, you know, we're we're gonna I'm kidding.

>> Yes. I mean, he can still play. There's

there's no doubt. He doesn't move like he did and he's not going to serve as well all the time. And, you know, 41y old legs are different than 28-y old legs. But, um, I hope he feels at peace.

legs. But, um, I hope he feels at peace.

You know, you never know. Maybe the fact that he's made this decision frees him up a little bit. Um, it'd be fun if he's in the third or fourth round of a grand slam. No one's going to complain. I

slam. No one's going to complain. I

promise you that. I hope he has a great year. Uh, Mike, anything else?

year. Uh, Mike, anything else?

>> Uh, I think we just have to close out with a little bit of a news update. Um,

so over the break, the PTPA and Tennis Australia announced that they had come to terms on a settlement for their part in the existing lawsuits brought by the PTPA. Details have yet to emerge on what

PTPA. Details have yet to emerge on what that settlement looks like and it is still developing. But sticking with PTPA

still developing. But sticking with PTPA news, NovakJokovic, co-founder of the organization, put out a statement on social media on Sunday that he would be leaving the organization, writing,

"After careful consideration, I have decided to step away completely from the Professional Tennis Players Association.

This decision comes after ongoing concerns regarding transparency, governance, and the way my voice and image have been represented. I am proud

of the vision that Vashik and I shared when founding the PTPA, giving players a stronger independent voice. But it has become clear that my values and approach

are no longer aligned with the current direction of the organization. I will

continue to focus on my tennis, my family, and contributing to the sport in ways that reflect my principles and integrity. I wish the players and those

integrity. I wish the players and those involved the best as they move forward, but for me, this chapter is now closed.

Novak's statement as well as a statement from the PTPA that was released shortly after that are included in the show notes. These are obviously ongoing

notes. These are obviously ongoing stories, so we'll be keeping track of them as they develop.

>> Great. Um, this does not feel like a story that's going to go away quickly. We'll see. Um, I was shocked

quickly. We'll see. Um, I was shocked when I when I when I heard the news or when it came across yesterday. I'm off

>> any sort of social media, but you know, it's a big story when you have, you know, 25 friends of which eight actually care about tennis uh, texting you.

>> Um, so we'll see. JW, any thoughts or is this uh, is this is this it? Yeah, I

think this is an ongoing story. There is

a major at which uh point sure more details will come out.

>> Great. Thanks for watching, sir.

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