We Asked 3 Experts How to Get More Value out of OpenClaw | E2253

All right everybody, welcome back to Twist. It is Friday, February 20th.

Twist. It is Friday, February 20th.

Today we are going to continue talking about Open Claw. My co-host Lon Harris is with us again and we've been talking a lot about setting up OpenClaw safely.

We are now in week three of this incredible transition, this incredible paradigm shift to having agents going out and doing real world things for you.

We call them replicants here on the show. And uh today we have three

show. And uh today we have three builders who are going to show us how to maximize your open claw output because openclaw burns a lot of tokens very

quickly and it gets very expensive. As

we talked about on the all-in podcast, there's a viral clip of me and Chimoth talking about hey these tokens lawn could outpace the actual salary of a

developer very quickly the way this is going. So this is an acute issue. Okay,

going. So this is an acute issue. Okay,

so ceue up our first guest.

>> Yeah. So, uh, well, I I think we have a perfect guest to talk about this, especially in terms of how to maximize your OPAC claw and and how to avoid the big timewasting mistakes that so many people make when they're first setting

them up. Jordy Colman is here. You may

them up. Jordy Colman is here. You may

have seen him on X. He wrote a viral article. I wasted 80 hours and $800

article. I wasted 80 hours and $800 setting up OpenClaw full of practical advice, a lot of which we have internalized here on the team. So,

Jordy, I want to go to you first. What

do you think are the biggest timewasting mistakes being made by open claw beginners that are holding them back?

>> Well, I think the barrier to entry is getting easier and speaking from experience. I'm someone who is like mega

experience. I'm someone who is like mega curious and I'm a marketing background.

So, I'm not necessarily developer side of this. And I, as you were saying at

of this. And I, as you were saying at the start of the show, was really interested in trying to find an agent to help me do things on a daily basis. So

when I was setting it up, I was going through the process of trying to figure out how to host it online or host it in my house for a Mac Mini. You know, all

these viral elements of like fluff being thrown at you, right? So for me, I found that the best practice was actually using hardware. I personally found that

using hardware. I personally found that a lot better than using like a an AWS EC2 server which again even in saying

that feels totally unnormal like I didn't even know what that was until I found open core. So I would say that the the barriers to entry are understanding

that having your own personal machine that acts as a server is definitely more proactive and better for newcomers

than using an online web server that is like a Linux coding portal. Um so yeah, I learned a big lesson in there. And

then on top of that, there's >> is the reason you'd think it's better to use a Mac Mini because the average user or an old MacBook Pro, whatever it is, the average user be more comfortable and

they can watch it easier and spinning up a virtual machine is just something they'll be uncomfortable with. Why do

you think it's a better solution?

>> Yeah. No, absolutely. I think it does come down to the UI and the startup, right? I struggled so much jumping into

right? I struggled so much jumping into a Linux terminal and trying to understand Windows PowerShell at first, then getting nowhere with doing that on

the PC. Then I booted up an AWS server

the PC. Then I booted up an AWS server with EC2 and I was looking at a Linux terminal and I had no idea and write sometimes using the commands, the prompts, it was so unhelpful that when I

had to troubleshoot, I had no idea. I

had to use another like code. I was

asking Claude called, I was asking Chatbt like, "I've broken this. Help

me." And then when I booted up that Mac Mini for the first time, I'm launching into terminal. I can actively see what's

into terminal. I can actively see what's going on. I can recognize mistakes. For

going on. I can recognize mistakes. For

example, my clawed token. So many people have that same issue of connecting and hatching it from the 2E for the first time. Nothing happens. And you don't

time. Nothing happens. And you don't realize that when you're copying and pasting your token key, there's a space in it because naturally that's what the Mac terminal window gives you. It's a

key with a space in it. So there was so many differences that you could visualize instantly. And by having that

visualize instantly. And by having that in front of you, I just found it phenomenally better. and even

phenomenally better. and even troubleshooting anything. For example, I

troubleshooting anything. For example, I made a tiny piece of content a day later where I had fully broken my agent and it just felt so much better to just plug in

the HDMI cable to the Mac Mini, take a look at what's going on, screenshot it, you know, like record to Claude or Chacht like look, this is what's going on. I have no technical background. I

on. I have no technical background. I

don't understand how to troubleshoot this. Help me.

this. Help me.

And then the value of course of having it in the cloud lawn is you don't need to buy a machine but you're probably going to be using some things you're unfamiliar with. So there's going to be

unfamiliar with. So there's going to be some balance ultimately lawn there's going to be more third-party services that kind of bridge this gap and abstract a little bit of the technical

onboarding issues.

>> Uh in other words, >> you know, open claw in a box is coming.

I wouldn't be surprised actually if somebody comes out with a hardware profile or even a stack of hardware profiles. That could be a mini rack that

profiles. That could be a mini rack that you put into your home theater system or a mini rack you put in a closet somewhere with 20 agents on it. I'm

talking a year or two from now where a small business could have 20 agents plugged in and 20 different, you know, computers with a screen and 20 buttons to just pick which one you want to watch. Sure,

watch. Sure, >> it sounds silly to anybody who's a developer, but it might be comforting to somebody, you know, who installs a Sonos system or an Apple TV system. It might

feel a little bit more >> uh familiar.

>> I want to bring in one of our other guests, Tummaine Grant, uh the founder and CEO of Pulse. It's a it's a fitness app for creators where they can grow their community. Uh but he's got a whole

their community. Uh but he's got a whole team of OpenClaw devs sort of collaborating with him and working with him building out the app. So Tmaine I want to go to you like when you hear you

know Jordy talking about uh you know like coming into it such as an outsider without coding background like what difference does it make you know what difference do you think you have from

your perspective like how to what are people missing about how powerful this is that don't have a technical or a coding background.

>> Yeah. So, to speak to Jason's point, I think that I think that we're going to see more of these these plug-and-play kind of units coming out where companies are going to be able to plug this in and set these these environments up because

I think that's the issue right now is that especially from a from a corporation or a company, there's so many opportunities now for developers to come in and set this environment up for

them. And um you know so one of the

them. And um you know so one of the things that I I realized while I was building out this uh this um virtual office that I'm going to demo shortly um is really just the the method of the

development method and the development cycle. And um if anyone's here is

cycle. And um if anyone's here is familiar with agile it's a methodology that uh you know the the the Bob Martin uh author of clean code came up with uh

2001 and it was basically to help teams become more and more efficient in how they're releasing code. They're

releasing code every two weeks. This is

coming from a methodology before that would take months to release code. Now

we are on this everyone probably 90% of corporations have adopted this this methodology called agile where you know uh we can release code now every two

weeks. Um that's that's golden coming

weeks. Um that's that's golden coming from the old methodology but in a in an era of agents two weeks is way too long.

agents can release. You know, there's no point of having a conbon board where you're setting up tickets and you're moving them across the board because back in the day, I mean, or present day, it might take days for a ticket to move

across the board where now agents are moving these things across the board in minutes. So, what does that new system

minutes. So, what does that new system look like? And I came up with this new

look like? And I came up with this new protocol called Heartbeat Protocol. And

I'll go through that as I I demo the system.

>> Yeah, let's take a look. Demo it for us.

No time like the present. the heartbeat

protocol. It is rooted in this idea around telemetry. So I I talked about

around telemetry. So I I talked about the conbon board. The conbon board is way too slow in an environment where you have agents that are able to produce work really quickly. Um so you see the

setup here. I have um my four main

setup here. I have um my four main agents. These are all set up on my Mac

agents. These are all set up on my Mac Mini. Um each agent has a very specific

Mini. Um each agent has a very specific role. We have Sage who's a researcher.

role. We have Sage who's a researcher.

Nora who is basically the head of all the agents. She will assign roles. she

the agents. She will assign roles. she

can spin up new agents. Um Salara who is the brand voice so anything front forward facing she she's kind of the tollgate and then Scout is also another researcher that focuses on um social

media trends creator economy because that's kind of the root of our our application. Um and then you have this

application. Um and then you have this thing called the north star. So any kind of work that they're producing is going to be always looking at this north star.

So for us our northstar right now is partnerships. Our company is focused on

partnerships. Our company is focused on creating communities for creators, corporations, and brands. So,

partnerships right now is our core. If

we we expand or we multiply partnerships, we're going to see a multip multiply our our user base. We

are going to have agents that are running constantly 24/7. So, how do you make sure that your agents are not idle and are always tracking towards your northstar? And that's where the

northstar? And that's where the telemetry comes in. So, we have this thing called telemetry check that happens every hour by the hour. And this

looks like >> and what we're seeing here visually, explain what we're seeing visually here because this is sort of fascinating. And

then I'm assuming your claude agent, sorry, your open claw agent built this interface as well.

>> Launch is a fast growing organization.

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>> Yeah. So, it's a mix between them and um my IDE. So, anti-gravity is like the way

my IDE. So, anti-gravity is like the way I plug in. I've actually set up a a custom chat system where I'm able to chat with the agents through my uh development interface. So the the

development interface. So the the program that I use to develop and people vibe code through cursor anti-gravity are two of the the ones I can chat directly with my agents through there as

in addition to chatting through with my agents through this group chat. So

you're seeing the telemetry >> and that group chat isn't >> Telegram or Signal or WhatsApp. It's one

that you built into your interface and that overhead view of the virtual office >> shows the different agents moving around >> in a 2D environment essentially is a

visualization for the limitations of human imagination just so we can see them visually in an office so that our brains aren't broken that they're just some collective hive mind. Yeah,

>> exactly. So, they're always like questioning each other. They're adding

each other and they're going deeper and deeper into >> So, give some examples. Always on this week in startups and when you're uh pitching your company to investors uh or

potential partners, always a good idea to give the best example you've seen. Uh

and we we train this in our programs. I know you went to Founder University and Launch Accelerator. We always say

Launch Accelerator. We always say examples matter. So, give us the most

examples matter. So, give us the most illustrative example here of them talking to each other and them picking what to work on because that's the thing that I think people have a hard time

with when they're lawn thinking of this new technology and the paradigm shift that just occurred. You used to interface in a chat room and it would be sickopantic. It would say, "Oh, that's a

sickopantic. It would say, "Oh, that's a great idea. Let's work on that. Let's

great idea. Let's work on that. Let's

expand your thinking." and it would you you kind of felt like you were in a conversation with, you know, a a dopey graduate student who was being sick of.

Now >> they're going out and they're saying, "This is what I should work on." Then

they're talking to each other about what they should be working on and then they're coming to a decision and then uh Tmaine, I don't know if you're giving them permission to do it or they got to check in with the boss man, but give us

that example here.

>> They have total freedom. So that's one of the the benefits of having a Mac Mini system um where that I can control it's contained. I h I give it full full

contained. I h I give it full full access to update, make updates, create documentation, write code and check in.

Um >> but that doesn't get pushed to your live version.

>> Doesn't get pushed to live version. Yep.

Until I live.

>> So they can go crazy in your little sandbox on the Mac Mini >> and then you see what they did and then you decide, hey, that goes live.

>> Exactly. Yep. Okay. Exactly.

>> So, some examples. Yeah.

>> I'm going to ask it. Uh, what the be the best way to implement this heartbeat protocol for a company?

>> How do they how do how do we start or where's where's the >> and what is the heartbeat protocol for your fitness startup? Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, the heartbeat protocol is this this new method of working. So, it's the idea of checking your system. So,

there's a a hourly telemetry check. So,

we've replaced it we we've replaced standups with telemetry checks. you

know human.

>> Okay, so this is how you run your company, not a product that you've done, how you run the company. Okay,

>> they are going to now start brainstorming in a conversation and what they should do is start to bounce ideas off of one another. So rather than just having one thought, so you can see here,

Nora proposes what she thinks, but then at scout, so again, they're they're tracking towards the North Star, so they're always thinking about pulse. So

they're they're applying it to Pulse.

>> I do I do want to bring our our third guest in here. Uh Jason, we've also got uh Jesse >> and Lon, by the way, when they talk to each other, a way to think about that is >> um

>> instead of you having to give a prompt, they're prompting each other so they're not sitting there waiting. And so if you give one a personality that is, hey, your job and and you give the persona,

and this is what I'm going to do. I'm

going to give a persona to each of our replicants. One of the personas is to

replicants. One of the personas is to question strategy and to qu and to check details. In other words, be that guy in

details. In other words, be that guy in the meeting who there was a guy at Amazon who would read the memo before they went to the Amazon meeting. She had

to read it before and they would come up with the most cynical, biting, questioning questions ahead of time. And

they were just known in these meetings that you would have to get through that these really detailed questions. And so

then people started anticipating that person's questions and they said in the book working backwards which is the Amazon book that everybody's game got really higher because they knew that

person was prepared had looked at the numbers and would always ask the question how did you come to that number you know or explain to us how you came to that conclusion like very basic

questions. So if we had a cynical person

questions. So if we had a cynical person who just said is is that the right answer how did you come to the answer explain your answer everybody's game goes up including replicants including

openclaw instances termaine do you have somebody doing something like that or have you thought about a role of the skeptic of the you know I don't want to say dbag but the

>> exact exactly what you're describing >> the CEO the CEO you know >> so scout is the skeptic so scout is the one. So there her identity is literally

one. So there her identity is literally we have it built in that you're be a cur be the the curious agent. So Scout is always the one that's going to push back and ask additional questions. Nora is

more of a moderator. So she's kind of like the CEO, but she moderates the conversation. So if there's a gap and

conversation. So if there's a gap and there's like a we have a timer, Nora will jump in and bring another question.

But what you're speaking of that is Scout. That Scout is the is the one

Scout. That Scout is the is the one that's going to force kind of people to ask questions, pause, and dig deeper.

And that's all in this in the soul.md

markdown file, right? That's that's how people are giving their openclaw agents these kinds of roles and personalities.

I think that's really interesting.

>> Exactly. I just saw an article yesterday on um optim like optimizing the sole MD file that really elevates the performance of the the agents. So dig

into that.

Jordy also had a tip in one of the blog in one of the ex articles that I read that uh you have a conversation with your new agent and that's how you fill in the sole markdown file. Like what is

the advantage of doing that instead of just typing yourself what personality you want it to have? Yeah. What I found was that when I had been through like five different setups and had five

different agents die and come to life in this horrible setup phase, what I actually found to give it the most amount of context at the beginning was

to just straight up ask it to give me a host of questions in order to get the most amount of specific context possible

about myself and my work and what I want to get out of having an agent And as of course it would, it spat back a

full-blown questionnaire of which I then uh at the time voice uh you know voice notes wasn't actually a skill. So I had the Grock API installed and I essentially just sat there and spoke to

it and asked all of its answered all of its questions uh in numerical format and that was it.

>> And that is such a perfect segue to our third and final guest for the live stream. Uh Jesse Lime Groover. I wanted

stream. Uh Jesse Lime Groover. I wanted

to bring him in. He's the creator of uh the founder and CTO of Open Home. It is

a smart speaker. They have smart speaker dev kits, Jason, that you can now put your you can now put your AI agent into a smart speaker and have real language everyday.

>> How much does that cost, Jesse? How much

does it cost what you're making?

>> They are free for developers. Uh because

the big question here is when are these agents going to enter the real world? uh

you know we had Alexa, we had Siri, these mainstream agents have really failed to be a true partner. They've

been command-based and that's what we're changing completely.

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Yeah, you you've nailed it. I mean, when we give agents a body, a voice, a microphone, we don't have to prompt them anymore. They have all of the context

anymore. They have all of the context from our life. Imagine a Fireflies notetaker uh that knows you, learns you, understands you. And when it has a

understands you. And when it has a speaker, you know, something like Amazon Alexa, it can speak up at the right time. It can prompt you. So it's very

time. It can prompt you. So it's very similar to Amazon Alexa or Siri except it runs your open claw agents. It runs

any agents. It's open source.

>> So it's not like its own um physical speaker. You can use any speaker. You

speaker. You can use any speaker. You

could just give it a dumb speaker and attach to a computer or something. Or

are you making a purpose-built speaker?

>> Oh, that's a great question. Uh it is an open source firmware that can run on a variety of hardware, but we are building a physical speaker. It runs on a

Raspberry Pi and we've built this >> uh microphone array specifically designed for agents. It's got six microphones on this. It can hear you from around the house. Uh it's no longer

the the dumb agents of the past. This is

an agent that >> So, what you just showed was a circuit board with six microphones on it. you're

going to put that into some form factor, but people will be able to buy that like they buy a Raspberry Pi and add it to their, you know, KF speakers or something if they wanted to or their

>> just attach it to a speaker with a an audio out. How does it you or what is

audio out. How does it you or what is the physical speaker going to look like?

I guess >> speakers, great brand. Uh, in some ways we compete with the the Mac Mini. Uh, in

some ways we compete with the Amazon Alexa. Uh, yes, they can attach it to

Alexa. Uh, yes, they can attach it to any any smart home device. It's an open protocol. They can put any speakers on

protocol. They can put any speakers on it, but where they place the microphone matters. They might have multiple

matters. They might have multiple arrays, you know, one in your living room, uh, one in your nightstand. The

agent, uh, you know, can be proactive.

And so, really, we want to make this paradigm go away from the screen. A lot

of times, these agents are doing things that are just faster to do yourself on the screen anyway. If you're in front of the screen, that defeats the point. We

want to bring agents into the real world so that they can go mainstream. Okay,

sounds like we got a good demo coming here. Let's see it.

here. Let's see it.

>> Yeah, let's take a look uh at what we've got a video that Jesse posted on Valentine's Day of his speaker uh participating in reality. Let's take a look.

>> I heard something earlier that I thought you should know.

>> Oh, okay. What was it?

>> Since you turned on my note-taking ability, I'm able to hear more.

>> Go on.

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>> Oh, >> want me to order a huge surprise bouquet to arrive after dinner?

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>> Okay. So, what does this do that an app on my phone doesn't do? So, what's the advantage of you making this new physical device, Jesse? Because that's

always what people are going to ask. And

obviously, AirPods are going to have some version of this. They were supposed to with Siri and they don't actually work. I was out skiing, met a

work. I was out skiing, met a 65-year-old guy, uh Tom, who was taking me out on some really dangerous terrain, so I needed a partner. I just met him randomly. We both had Siri on and we're

randomly. We both had Siri on and we're both trying to get Siri to stop our music so we can talk to each other. And

it wasn't working for either of us. Siri

is just such utter complete garbage. So

tell us why you would do this over using, you know, existing hardware. Like

what's the advantage here?

>> Great question. You know, context and memory are the game changers. When an

agent has all of the details about your life, when it can remember those, its ability to be helpful is transformative.

Siri is not helpful because it has to be told exactly what to do. Uh it can't really understand you and it has no context. By bringing the agents into the

context. By bringing the agents into the real world, you remove this huge setup barrier. No longer do you have to set it

barrier. No longer do you have to set it up. It works out of the box. No longer

up. It works out of the box. No longer

do you have to prompt it. It hears

everything. No longer do you have to wonder how can we make OpenClaw agents helpful. It will tell you because it

helpful. It will tell you because it knows you. So that's the game changer on

knows you. So that's the game changer on why we need new hardware, why we need new microphones, why we need to bring it into the real world. It's context.

>> Got it. Okay. Uh

let's keep going. Lon, what do we have next?

>> I mean my my I got one more question for Jesse. Uh so Apple and Amazon had such a

Jesse. Uh so Apple and Amazon had such a massive head start. So many people already have Siri on their phone, Alexa in their house. How did you beat them to this? Like why aren't Alexexas already

this? Like why aren't Alexexas already able to do these things?

>> Lon, I got that's a great point. Do you

know that uh iPhones the number one selling consumer device? Laptops the

second. This is a crazy stat. People

think that the AirPods or the iPad is the best selling device after the iPhone and laptop. It's actually the smart

and laptop. It's actually the smart speaker. Siri, Google Home, HomePod,

speaker. Siri, Google Home, HomePod, Alexa have sold $500 million. They spend $20 billion a year

million. They spend $20 billion a year on these things. It's growing like crazy. They're not very good. These are

crazy. They're not very good. These are

closed ecosystems. We beat them because we opened the ecosystem up. It's built

on a Raspberry Pi. It can run in any hardware. There's thousands of hackers

hardware. There's thousands of hackers building already in our Discord. That's

why we're giving them away for free right now. We want people to build in

right now. We want people to build in the real world and open source connecting to openclaw controlling your computer. This is not coming anytime

computer. This is not coming anytime soon from the big closed tech speakers and systems. >> Yeah, I I do uh Jason, I got one more question for the panel. I'm curious

everybody's thoughts. Uh all of these projects are really like it's about autonomy. It's about kind of setting

autonomy. It's about kind of setting your agents up, giving them a north star, as Travade says, and then kind of letting them go. How are you deciding when a human, yourself, somebody else needs to still be in the loop and when

it's like let the agents go nuts and do whatever they want?

>> You know, the proactivity is such a big area of focus right now. Um, you know, and it's kind of like if somebody lives with you, uh, when is that person's role to kind of chime in and remind you of

something? That's how we think of it,

something? That's how we think of it, like a roommate, >> right? So, it's like, yeah, you don't

>> right? So, it's like, yeah, you don't want it to jump in constantly because then it's a, you know, an annoying roommate, but to to sort of steadily be there, that makes a lot of sense. So,

what's the most number one most effective skill that you guys are all using with your open call? Like, what's

the one thing that when you taught your open claw agent to do this, that was the real like level up game changer?

>> I think for me right now, it's research.

um we've been able to uh research a lot around the partnerships that we're doing. So for me, I'm I'm a I'm a

doing. So for me, I'm I'm a I'm a techie. I have been programming since

techie. I have been programming since I've been 12 years old. So my expertise is not, you know, naturally in the people's side. So um the research that a

people's side. So um the research that a lot of the these agents are able to do for you and really carve out what does a partnership look like, you know, what are people doing right now in in the

ecosystem? Um, having a an agent that is

ecosystem? Um, having a an agent that is able to do that in real time and constantly collect information for you and then turn that into a real product.

I think that is uh is super valuable for for me right now.

>> We do have a good question already from uh Green Deinci Green Deichi. I think

probably like a a Medi uh joke. What was

the process to make Tmaine's sub agents?

Are they running on a separate LLM or just the main agent is the one with the brain? Great question. Um, I have made a

brain? Great question. Um, I have made a lot of changes over the last week. As we

know, things have been changing a lot with claude, right? As of right now, I'm using an ooth method to each agent has it is running on its own um its own

model. Uh, they're all running on 5.1.

model. Uh, they're all running on 5.1.

At one point, I had Scout running uh sonnet 4.5. Um, and then the other ones

sonnet 4.5. Um, and then the other ones were all running on codeex 5.1. But

right now they're all on what 5.1 because uh I don't know if anyone's seen Peter Steinberger yesterday or maybe the day before yesterday on Twitter said that OpenAI was actually allowing uh

folks to use their their Mac subscription on OpenAI to run their Cloud Bots. So that's going to

Cloud Bots. So that's going to significantly bring the price of the agents down. Um and I'm hoping that you

agents down. Um and I'm hoping that you know Claude does something. I mean, it's probably not going to happen now since OpenAI acquired them, but um yeah, I I I think that that So, that's kind of where

I'm at right now.

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for more details. Yeah. You know, the uh thing I'm working on right now, Lon, is um >> Tell us.

>> I I want to be able to ingest everything we have in our company. Um and then have my Roy tell me everything going on in

the company in a very granular way. So,

I want every Slack message. Now, it

turns out there's multiple levels to Slack. Somebody can ask their replicant

Slack. Somebody can ask their replicant right now to tell them uh the different levels, but it turns out I can't get every message even with the enterprise

version I'm using from the API from Slack. And I find out from Heidi what

Slack. And I find out from Heidi what we're paying, but we're paying like $25 a month per person, not the $15 a month.

So, we're paying a higher price Salesforce to get >> Is that what we're on? Find out

specifically the tier.

>> Oh, I was just joking. I'll ask Heidi what level we're on. So, there's like three tiers. I think I have to pay like

three tiers. I think I have to pay like $50 a month to get API access. So, I'm

going mental like, am I going to pay $600 a year for my chat room per person?

20 people plus 20 replicants, 40 people times 600, $24,000 a year. So, I was like, what do I do here to my replicant?

And Roy told me, um, now you know what it's like to, you know, to to to know when you're going to die from SAS pills.

Uh, and he, uh, said, "Well, why don't you just use Matterpost?" And I said, "Excuse me?" And he said, "Oh,

"Excuse me?" And he said, "Oh, Matterpost is like the open- source version of Slack."

>> And he said, "Yeah, we could just port it over the weekend. You can just export everything, upgrade for one month to this level of Slack, export everything, put it into this free one. I'll stand it

up for you and then everybody will be on that and that comes with API access and it's like 500 bucks a year to for the license if you want it and we can just keep it up to date. And I was like,

okay. So now that's a 15 to $25,000 SAS

okay. So now that's a 15 to $25,000 SAS going to zero. Then I was like, hey, what about our Gmail? I want to get that. Turns out I can pull in every

that. Turns out I can pull in every Gmail. So now imagine this world, guys.

Gmail. So now imagine this world, guys.

>> Yeah.

every single Slack message, every si including DMs, every single email message in the company, and every single notion update,

all of those then uh telling me what is happening in real time. So, what I want is a ticker, a

time. So, what I want is a ticker, a heads up display. Lon,

>> that's right. Yeah. that when I have my earpieces in, it's telling me Lon just emailed Marcus about guests for this.

Marcus responded this and then I can say, "Oh, okay. Uh, add me to that or, you know, email them to add me to that thread or here's my feedback for that."

>> Yeah.

>> So, I want to have it implanted in my brain >> every conversation going on in the company, every edit, every page, you're like, "Okay, we're making an investment decision on this. this person's on the phone call with this person on a Zoom

right now and I say, "Oh, they're on a Zoom with that person. Add me to the Zoom."

Zoom." >> It sounds like a nightmare. My

nightmare.

>> It's your nightmare. But just think about it. Like for me running the

about it. Like for me running the company, >> it would be like me.

>> What's the superhero who can teleport themselves into any I'm like the Nightcrawler >> from the Munich Circus.

>> Yeah, >> I'm the Nightcrawler from the Munich.

>> He can bam into anywhere. But like but it's like Superman is the one who can hear every conversation across Metropolis like just with his super hearing. I got an answer for you by the

hearing. I got an answer for you by the way. Uh business plus we're on the

way. Uh business plus we're on the business plus Slack tier. $522 a month you're spending on Slack.

>> You know Jason I think you you pitched the you pitched the dream of AI unlimited context complete context. And

you kind of hit the nail on the head that a lot of context still lives on the computer. A lot's in the real world too.

computer. A lot's in the real world too.

Uh, and somebody from our community actually just yesterday built an open home plugin that gives your open home uh device access to all of the files on

your computer and can control it like a person. And so I'm right there with you.

person. And so I'm right there with you.

I want to be able to ask my agent what's going on in the digital world, what's going on in the real world. AirPods is a little bit much. I kind of think mine, you know, can be more like a speaker, but you got the dream uh you got the

dream vision there.

I'd love to know as well what everyone thinks in terms of this conversation of like I often conceptualize the fact that we're in the age of personalization, right? And I think for me without the

right? And I think for me without the developer background or um even just with the business background too from Jason's point of view is that what's really interesting to me is how much

everyone even now is talking about building something for them personally using the agent skills. So

how long before certain SASes just actually do completely break down and everyone is building something specifically for them personally because

even using notion I've built my own notion dashboard for the marketing work I'm doing right and like I have taken out 80% of notion's features that I

never use and it's significantly cheaper right so like I've already killed notion for me that's already one subscription gone Jason's killed Slack. There's so

many good examples like this.

>> I'm I think there's actually a really important discussion here, shorty. The

SAS companies are going to have to open up a little bit more in order for us to pay for them. So, I think this I'm going to text Benny off about this because he and I have been talking about the Slack

agent and I'm like, bro, you know, the Slackbot, you know, is the most basic version of like an agent. It just gives me a summary of stuff. I don't want a summary

stuff. I want somebody proactive in each

stuff. I want somebody proactive in each channel, you know, listening to every conversation and telling me what I need to pay attention to or giving feedback in real time. Yours doesn't do that yet.

But then they're they're they're kind of holding the keys to the kingdom and holding them ransom and that's not

cool. It's like a level of lock in that,

cool. It's like a level of lock in that, you know, they slowly implemented here.

you when you export, you can't get all the threads, all the likes, the emojis unless you're on the highest plan. I

can't get API access unless I'm on the high plan. I think Notion does give you

high plan. I think Notion does give you the full keys to the kingdom. So, I want to give them credit for that, but that's going to be something SAS companies are going to have to concede is that we need

keys to the kingdom if it's our data and don't upsell us five times on the keys to the kingdom. The same thing occurs in uh Docs and Gmail, by the way. They know

companies have compliance and retention.

So find out lawn what I'm paying for Gmail as well from Heidi or Lucas. I I

got to know what that's costing us because I think I upgraded that to $25 a month, 600 per user per year, whatever, $50 a user per year in order to get the

ability that if some employee rage quits and deletes all their emails, we still have them, right? Or the ability to search across all emails if there was a compliance issue, you know, somebody suing us or whatever. We just got into

Sergio's email the other day, our old editor. We can still do that. Yes.

editor. We can still do that. Yes.

>> Yeah. But I mean, you could, and I've had this happen before. I had an employee leave once and they were like, "I'm just going to delete every email and every Slack message." I'm like, "Why would you do that? What are you hiding?

Like, is this crazy time?" Like,

>> yeah, conspiracy.

>> Like, it's almost like burning your office. Like, you're like, "Oh, I'm

office. Like, you're like, "Oh, I'm leaving the company. I'm just going to pour some [ __ ] gasoline in my office and my file cabinet. Light it on fire."

Who are we talking to about they want to bring your ex employees back to life by using AITA? Like we can reanimate them

using AITA? Like we can reanimate them based on their email and Slack threads.

>> Somebody said it. Termaine, did you say it?

>> Meta something.

>> Meta just released uh Well, they didn't release it. It like leaked that they're

release it. It like leaked that they're they're exploring technology. Yeah. A

patent. Yeah. They're exploring

technology to when someone passes away, their their social media account continues posting based on the context of their, you know, their personal behaviors and the way that they post on

Instagram or Facebook, which is very creepy.

>> Termaine, Jason, I got one for you. Um,

when we were working on OpenHome, one of the most popular features that came out was AI twin. So, you know, cloning your voice, cloning your personality. And,

um, you know, I think it's almost dystopian like Black Mirror. like uh if you clone the essence of somebody, their voice, their intonation, their background, their text messages, you

know, what does the future look like in that world?

>> It's interesting as well cuz um I've let open claw run wild with this as well.

Like I built my bot Momo and just gave him his own voice and he just tweets autonomously and just has his complete own opinions and facts. In a way, it's

similar to what we're discussing about Meta bringing back people from the dead.

I've sort of let him just run off and he just literally says whatever he wants based off of that brand skill that I've built for him.

>> Well, I have I have a theory that there are going to be, mark my words, there are going to be like AI celebrities. So

the same way we look at like the way like brands have their mascots like Mickey Mouse and you know Donald Duck.

These are like these famous brands or these famous characters. We're going to have real looking people that are AI that are going to be celebrities that are producing music that are acting

because I mean if you guys have seen Sea Dance I don't know what Hollywood looks like next year you know or in the next two years. So, I think we're gonna see

two years. So, I think we're gonna see more and more of that and it's just it's kind of inevitable like we're gonna have to get used to what that looks like.

>> We had the um we had the creator of AI Scott Adams on lawn just last week, >> John Arrow.

>> And Scott Adam Yeah, Scott Adams the cartoonist from Dilbert and had his coffee with Scott Adams. He's still publishing the Scott Adams version to Twitter. The family's still a little bit

Twitter. The family's still a little bit upset about or the estate is because I think they want to create this. He does

have the right to his likeness or his estate does now. So, they should stop doing it. But he also created that

doing it. But he also created that Abigail one which is like using the background of Scott's office with a female character. It's very weird and

female character. It's very weird and jaring.

>> It's a little It's a little weird. It

makes >> Put it all aside >> as public figures. You're going to have to trademark yourself, copyright yourself. I'm going to go through this

yourself. I'm going to go through this process of copyrighting Jason Calanis.

My work, my podcasts are already copyright's inherent. But I do think

copyright's inherent. But I do think you're going to need to as a celebrity or a person of note get extra IP protection so that when somebody does this kind of stuff you can actually send

in the DMCA the actual trademark Jason Calacanis a human being venture capitalist etc podcaster and the copyright this is my

copyrighted work this look of my studio this you know these expressions my voice yeah >> and I saw somewhere that >> Matthew McConna had gone through this process of actually copyrighting and

trademarking the voice etc. because somebody was using my voice >> with a bunch of dogs.

>> So somebody had put my voice into 11 Labs and they were having these dogs doing podcast and they just have podcast Jason as like a bulldog and it was like okay >> well you you've recorded so many tens of thousands of hours of podcast it's easy

to train on your voice as opposed to >> oh it's in all the training data by now.

>> Yeah you really see Have you ever heard that Jet Lee story? I he was so ahead of his time. In 1999, they offered Jet Le

his time. In 1999, they offered Jet Le the role in Matrix that ended up going to Kiana Reeves. And he said, "No, because they want to digitize my body and me doing all of my martial arts

moves and those are my that like that I trained for years to learn those moves.

You can't put them in your computer."

So, it's like he was already kind of foreseeing this 26 years later that people were going to be freaking out about this specific. I did want to throw to Jordy because Jordy created his uh

his agent Momo is already an online personality at loyal momobot was tweeting up a storm this morning about them coming on the show. So Jordy like what like what was the impulse there?

Like why create a public persona for your agent so that people could befriend them and they could be a public personality? I mean honestly it started

personality? I mean honestly it started because uh in a way it covers everything that we're saying here but I was using it for scanning right so for example I was

looking to expand how I was performing personally on X I wanted to stop tweeting like a teenager and into the void and actually start growing my brand and my personality again so I asked it

to completely analyze my profile from its birth tell me how I talk what my best performing posts were etc. And in order to do that, I needed a a Twitter account. So I basically just set one up

account. So I basically just set one up for my bot, which was called Momo. And

then I figured out that it would actually be quite funny that while he's doing this, I just said, "Hey, you know, let's start building you a voice using a skill and you can actually start

tweeting yourself." And I want you to

tweeting yourself." And I want you to document your journey as an AI and tell everyone how you're doing, what you're feeling. What does it actually look like

feeling. What does it actually look like when I ask you to do four different tasks and I tell you to spawn in a sub agent yet I'm talking in another Discord channel to you about writing me a

context file or something because the way that I operate is through Discord which does cover read history. So to

Jason when you were saying about not being able to read Slack, Discord isn't a business solution, but it's definitely a personal one because if for example it ever loses context of itself, which was a problem with updating open core quite

often recently, uh I was able to actually just say Momo, stop being an idiot. Just read through the history and

idiot. Just read through the history and it would just go back and read through all my messages and it would pick context right back up where I started and it was done. But yeah, honestly, I did it for fun. I did it out of

experimentation and I wanted to push it a little bit and see what's it like if one of these autonomous agents that is working in and out for me every day providing me cron jobs giving me scans

of Twitter providing me with information and news sources what's it actually like when it commentates on itself doing that so I just set him up to tweet reply to people and uh that was it honestly he's

got a community does his own thing it's quite interesting waking up after you know after sleeping and just seeing what random crap happy spoken about >> checking in with your computer friend. I

one I got one more question then we'll go into rapidfire questions from viewers. Uh my question to everybody

viewers. Uh my question to everybody here are are we at the point where a lot of people are going to start falling in love with their AI agents once they can speak once they get to know you at this

level we were having people falling in love with chat GPT and it's just lines on a screen. Are we entering a new era where everybody you know is just going to have an AI boyfriend girlfriend companion?

>> I think so. So there's there's a there's a segment of folks that literally talk to chat GPT every day or claude every day and tell them every single thing they do, what they ate, how they're

feeling. So I absolutely see that that

feeling. So I absolutely see that that coming especially moving into the agent space. So

space. So >> yeah, I mean that's all I can think of when I hear Jesse's like uh you know agents voice talking. He's like if I had this person talking to me all day, I'm going to develop a relationship with it.

That's just how I work, >> you know. And there's a lot of different personalities and there's a lot of different agents and I think uh that's going to be a theme of what comes after Gen Z, Gen Alpha.

>> Gen Alpha. Yeah, they're the kids today.

Yeah, I I agree with you guys. All

right, we got lots of questions coming in from viewers uh because of Jason.

>> Three best questions. Three best

questions on rapid fire and direct them to the right person. Okay. So, uh, from Caleb, Caleb Rebello 5352.

Uh, this one's for this one's for the whole panel. I'm gonna throw it to

whole panel. I'm gonna throw it to everybody. What is everyone's opinion on

everybody. What is everyone's opinion on how this will impact the app landscape given that people can now build personalized versions so easily and cheaply?

>> You know, I think apps are changing and SAS is changing. Um, you can vibe code abilities for Open Claw, for open home in minutes if you give it uh you don't even need to give it templates anymore.

These things can be oneshotted. You can

make abilities to, you know, make you powerpoints or send your emails or or or or order you Valentine's Day flowers literally in minutes. So AI is going to

be a supercomputer. Apps are apps are a dying breed.

>> I'm I'm on the fence on that. I think

SAS is I think like SAS apps for business. makes sense like notion but I

business. makes sense like notion but I think Apple holds the keys for consumer apps when if when Apple decides that app apps are dead because that you have to

think about it too we are a very small segment of the population that even uses chat GPT that don't even know what chat GPT is I think it's going to get to a point when when Apple gets to the point

where they when they have built a consumerfriendly product that people can vibe code and whatever they need to to get whatever problem solved then apps are dead. But I don't know if Apple, you

are dead. But I don't know if Apple, you know, was going to do that because it doesn't serve them. It doesn't serve them well because they make so much money off the app store. Um, so I think honestly I think Apple holds the keys there.

>> What if it all turns into websites is what's interesting because you know my example and from someone who hasn't got a developer background is that I very quickly learned the skill of connecting

a GitHub and a superbase together and now I can ask for anything to be built.

So like for example my notion one earlier like I've got my own dashboard for work. I've built my own finance tool

for work. I've built my own finance tool that does my accounting for me and I have all of these segments already made.

So it's I agree with you definitely that Apple holds the keys for actual consumerf facing apps. But at some point what happens when everyone can use agents in the same way in 2006 no one

could build a website no one could make a Facebook page unless they had a technical ability. like how quick do we

technical ability. like how quick do we think this is going to happen cuz this is the most accelerated growth curve I have ever seen.

>> Yeah, I think so too. Uh, next question rapid fire from Nate Tunthane. I think

this one's perfect for Jesse. When does

an agent know you instead of just remembering your chats? Like what's the what's the transition moment there?

>> Oh man, I've gone deep with these. I've

got hundreds of hours logged at these agents and honestly some of them can start to know you pretty quickly but it's like a conversation. You have to go through the small talk first then it has to listen. But you know what's crazy?

to listen. But you know what's crazy?

You reveal things in your in your environment in your life that you don't always reveal to a chat GBT window. And

I think when we're proactively prompting these agents when we're telling them what we wanted to know about us we're expressing our opinion about ourselves.

It's like a therapy call. But when you speak naturally, candidly, as Jason was saying, give it access to your slacks or as I'm saying, give it access to your home, it knows you better than you know

yourself because it's observing you.

It's not just taking what you say for granted.

>> Wow. Interesting. Uh, last question. I

think this one be perfect for you, Jason, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks, too. From David

Elzitenfill, uh, his agent posted this. Seph, short

for Sephalopod. Uh, and their agent asks, "How do you see governance frameworks for AI agents playing out?

When agents have wallets, credit cards, autonomy, who's going to write the rules for your agents?"

>> Wait, concisely. Ask it again. Sorry.

>> It's agent.

>> Uh, their agent is asking, "Who's going to govern agents once we give them this degree of autonomy? They have wallets.

They have credit cards. They're out in the world doing things. What happens if an agent gets in trouble?

Yeah, that's always on the person who created the agent and that's how it's going to be. You can't blame United Airlines or Amazon if you sent in agents

to its website. And some of those places might say, "Hey, um, we suspect this is an agent. We don't allow agents." And so

an agent. We don't allow agents." And so there will be counter measures, I'm sure, for banking, for Robin Hood. Robin

Hood might just say, "You know what?

Feels like you're using an agent. We

don't allow agents." or if you want to use an agent on Robin Hood, we have our own agent stack you can use now. In

fact, I think Public has like an AI product now. Um, and I think they

product now. Um, and I think they sponsor this show and I talked about it during the ad read. Public has a thing.

Yeah. And I I remember like a very cool feature. I haven't tried it yet where

feature. I haven't tried it yet where you can say, "Hey, I'm looking for dividend paying stocks with a price earnings ratio and uh have free cash flow in a market cap above 10 billion."

Boom. and it will get and you say rank those and then make me an ETF and I want to put a $10,000 into that ETF. Now the

the $10,000 into the ETF step you're going to have to do yourself obviously but um I think that's how it's going to play out.

>> My hot take is that agents are going to govern other agents. I think that it's gonna get to a point where we're gonna have these more intelligent agents that are basically going to be like governor agents that are going to be basically

going to be auditing these lower level agents and editing their soul file and their creed and their responsibilities and all those things. And I think that's going to be >> the step in the future. I think a lot of

things are going to be handed off to AI in the future. So

>> agent internal affairs, that's amazing, >> right?

So, thanks a ton to all three of our amazing guests. Uh, what a what a great

amazing guests. Uh, what a what a great conversation. Jordie Colman, uh, thank

conversation. Jordie Colman, uh, thank you for being here. Uh, Jordy Maui on X, Jesse Limegruber, uh, Jesse Rank on X, and openhome.com is where you can go to

check out all of those incredible >> Oh, and before we dismiss our guests, let's get Jesse's We'll give Jesse's speaker and my speaker to two different best questions. So, if you're listening

best questions. So, if you're listening to this on the replay gang on the podcast feed, go to YouTube, search for this weekend startups, uh, subscribe and hit the bell. Then you

can join the live audience. If you give the live audience, whoever asked the best questions that day, uh, and if we hit a certain number of thumbs up, we give away stuff because why not? It's

fun. Makes it more dynamic. We get

better questions. So,

>> two people are going to get the two best questions from this episode are going to get the KF speaker from my friends at headphones.com. I'm just giving them a

headphones.com. I'm just giving them a free promo. I'm friends with Andrew who

free promo. I'm friends with Andrew who runs that company. He got me down a hi-fi rabbit hole. There's no deal. I

don't get paid by them, but I just love headphones.com. And I love these KF

headphones.com. And I love these KF speakers. And then Jesse from

speakers. And then Jesse from openhome.com is giving away his speaker.

And then finally, thanks to Tmaine Grant. Uh Pulse is the app for fitness

Grant. Uh Pulse is the app for fitness creators and uh he created that really cool sort of home office dev collection.

Thanks to all you guys. Great having you here on the show.

>> I just want to uh give a shout out to um this new Game of Thrones show. Yes.

Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. It's called >> Night of the Seven Kingdoms is really Have you watched it?

>> I've seen the first two episodes. I got

I'm going to try to get further this weekend.

>> Uh so it starts off a little slow.

Little character development. What I

like about this specific show and we talked about uh previously uh we were talking about industry. Industry is just crushing it. It's the best show on

crushing it. It's the best show on television, but this show is probably the second best one for me.

>> Uh, A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. >> What I like about it >> is it's nice and tight. 31 minutes, 37 minutes, 34 minutes, 31 minutes, 33

minutes, 42 minutes for the first one.

It's tight. It's your Game of Thrones fix. It's part of the Game of Thrones

fix. It's part of the Game of Thrones universe. So, you get a kind of

universe. So, you get a kind of mentions. There hasn't been like a Luke

mentions. There hasn't been like a Luke Skywalker Mandalorian.

>> Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what I like about it. It feels like the andor of

about it. It feels like the andor of Westeros. It feels like we're not, we no

Westeros. It feels like we're not, we no longer have to just do it's just kings, it's dragons, it's, you know, like the high mythology, you know, it's it's like

we're the white walkers. It's a it's a more ground level take. We're seeing

regular people. It's how life was led a hundred years before Game of Thrones.

Just everyday life in the Seven Kingdoms. And as a hardcore Game of Thrones fan, that is so fun to see the other side of things where it's not, you know, worried about succession lines and worrying about these huge battles that

they got to plan, but it's like more everyday lived in stuff. Uh, and it does it reminds me a little of of Game of Thrones Andor, which I really enjoy.

I've been enjoying a bunch of stuff this week. Another HBO Max show that I love,

week. Another HBO Max show that I love, The Pit. I don't know if you've gotten

The Pit. I don't know if you've gotten into that one. It's their medical drama series. We're in the thick of season two

series. We're in the thick of season two right now. It's so compelling. And

right now. It's so compelling. And

what's crazy to me about it is there it's it's like the lightest attention to drama of any show I can think of. It's

90% just doctors doing their jobs.

There's a little, you know, they put in a little bit of like here's what's going on emotionally with this guy. These two

people don't like each other, but that's such a small part of it. It's mostly

just doctors doing their jobs and mentoring other doctors. And it's so compelling. It's fascinating. I I'm a

compelling. It's fascinating. I I'm a big fan. I, you know, I got through the

big fan. I, you know, I got through the first two episodes and then I was like, maybe I'll watch this with the wife, but >> it was so graphic and I worked on an ambulance. I showed like a broken leg or

ambulance. I showed like a broken leg or something. It was a compound fracture

something. It was a compound fracture and >> nothing makes me queasy, >> more queasy than a compound fracture when the bone is sticking through the flesh. It's just brutal. Um, but yeah, I

flesh. It's just brutal. Um, but yeah, I may get back into it.

>> Yeah, the show is share one other thing.

>> The show is gnarly.

>> It's Yeah, they're going for it. Can you

see my screen here? This is my Gemini. I

find you. So, um, I want to give a shout out to Brett Eastston Ellis's podcast.

It's a Patreon podcast. Go pay for it.

Brett Eastston Ellis is the author of, uh, American Psycho Less than Zero.

>> Um, he has a new one that he did. Um,

what was the name of it? He serialized

it on his podcast. Um, gosh, he serialized >> his new thriller.

>> Is it The Shards? the Shards, which was fantastic. He serialized it and reads it

fantastic. He serialized it and reads it on his podcast and they have it all there on Patreon. Oh, that's he does questions from his audience.

>> It's like Lunar Park. It's like meta because it's like semi-autobiographical, but then it takes like and it's LA in the 80s. It's very gay. It's very

the 80s. It's very gay. It's very

violent. It's very kids behaving badly.

Very less than zero. Yeah.

>> And I just love his >> no holds barred approach to fiction.

remember he had his book American Psycho banned. He was like this,

banned. He was like this, >> you know, bad boy in the 80s. But

anyway, he is respected deeply by other artists and orurs. One of the artists who really loves him is Quinton Tarantino. Quinton Tarantino was on for

Tarantino. Quinton Tarantino was on for a two-part series where he picked his top 20 films of the 21st century. That's

where he famously, you know, took some pot shots at Paul Dano and said like a terrible actor or whatever. And leaving

that aside, >> I wanted to go through the top 10 with you.

>> Sure.

>> And just see if any of these would be on your top 10. He said the rule for him was he had to pick it from memory.

>> Yeah.

>> He couldn't like go do research. He just

said just off the top of his head, what did he like? He has Blackhawk Down.

>> Sure.

>> Which I think is one of my top five films of all time.

>> Toy Story 3, which was absolutely fantastic. Lost in Translation, I loved

fantastic. Lost in Translation, I loved Dunkirk at number four. I loved. I got

to watch again. There Will Be Blood.

Banger. Love that one. Zodiac number

six. Love that. He has Unstoppable, which I've never seen, which I put on my >> train movie. It's actually a lot of fun.

I mean, I love late Tony Scott. It was

He was very divisive at the time, but now I think if you go back and watch those late Tony Scott movies, they're they're way ahead of their time and they're very experimental for mainstream action films. That one and Domino, Man

on Fire with Denzel Washington. There

there's a lot of good ones.

>> He tragically committed suicide at the Long Beach. Correct. Uh bridge, right?

Long Beach. Correct. Uh bridge, right?

>> Really crazy. He jumped off the Long Beach.

>> It was a bridge. I thought

>> poor a bridge or something. It was

really tragic. But obviously Tony Scott, Ridley Scott, my favorite director. One

of my top two directors, three directors.

>> Yeah, it was the Vincent Thomas Bridge in San Pedro, which is like it gets you over to the port. That's how you would drive over to the port of Los Angeles.

>> Mad Max Fury Road. People love this.

George Miller 2015. I liked it, but >> yeah, I don't know if it's my top 10.

Shawn of the Dead. That's a good poll.

>> It's great.

>> Midnight in Paris, never saw it. So, I

didn't see two of these. Of these 10, any of these consensus for you in your top 10? I'm curious.

top 10? I'm curious.

>> Two. Two of these movies would be probably on my top 10, top 20 of all time. That's There Will Be Blood, the

time. That's There Will Be Blood, the classic Paul Thomas Anderson sort of like dark western personal, you know, character drama. I I that Daniel D.

character drama. I I that Daniel D.

Lewis performance is as good as anyone's been in a movie, I think.

>> And Paul Dano's performance is weak sauce or not? No, I dis I really disagree with QT on that. Like I I love I'm from a time when directors had lots

of like third rail hottake opinions and I I that that used to just be what being a director was about. So I totally celebrate QT's right to have those kinds of opinions. But I really like Paul

of opinions. But I really like Paul Dano. I think Paul Dano has been great

Dano. I think Paul Dano has been great in a lot of movies. You ever see Prisoners with uh Hugh Jackman and Jake Gyllenhaal? No. It was an early It was

Gyllenhaal? No. It was an early It was Denurve before he started doing all the dude movies and everything. Uh Hugh

Jackman plays a suburban dad whose kid is kidnapped and he believes that this local creep played by Paul Dano is guilty. The cops can't make it.

guilty. The cops can't make it.

>> Oh, I did see this film. Yeah, very

dark. Kidnaps him and keeps him tied up and tortures him trying to get information. Paul Dano was amazing in

information. Paul Dano was amazing in that movie. I don't know how you could

that movie. I don't know how you could watch that movie and say Paul D.

>> Okay. There Will Be Blood >> and then the other one is above. Wait,

five. There Will Be Blood. He has it five. Is yours higher than five or lower

five. Is yours higher than five or lower than five or >> Oh, my top movies of all time. I mean

that's it's really >> No. No. Of 21st century.

>> No. No. Of 21st century.

>> Oh, the 21st century. Uh it's I mean it would be I think probably number one would be Moholland Drive and then There Will be Blood is like back two 2 three four is where you start to get.

>> So even higher. And then what's your number two on this list that you said?

Zodiac. And Zodiac would also be a top five for me. That I think it's David Fincher's best movie and one of the best like >> investigative procedural movies ever made.

>> What else do you have for Off Duty?

Anything else for Off Duty? I gave a podcast. I gave specific episodes and I

podcast. I gave specific episodes and I gave a TV show. What else do you got?

>> I mean, did you see the Mandalorian and Grou trailer? We could take a look at a

Grou trailer? We could take a look at a little bit of it here if you have not checked it out. Go ahead. This is the John Favro movie coming out. the movie

spin-off of The Mandalorian. Can we just show a little bit of that? Let's take a look.

>> Yeah.

>> Good. Good vibes.

>> Hey, never touch the buttons.

>> It's Martin for the night. Thank you.

>> That's the voice of Martin there.

>> War criminals.

>> Long live the empire.

We'll take out every bad guy in your deck of cards.

>> Here's um what I'll tell you. Um cuz I am a big fan of the Clone Wars and Rebels and the Bad Batch, all these animated series, >> which Fona did in the Fona universe, and

my daughters love them. We're rewatching

some of them. There's a bounty hunter in this Embo Embo who is a badass. And they keep bringing these bounty hunters into Mandalorian

because obviously Boba Fett was one. And

uh Embo E MBO wears that big Captain America shield as his helmet is a really cool character. In addition,

cool character. In addition, >> they have the Huts in this.

>> That's Did you see that? That's Jeremy

Allen White from the bear is Roa the Hut, Jabba's son.

>> Yeah. And Roa is a baby in the Clone Wars. Uh and he was rescued by Ashoka

Wars. Uh and he was rescued by Ashoka and Anakin.

>> Oh, wait. And then he grows up. Is that

is he he's the one in the is that Roa the Hut and is the baby in the original >> in the Clone Wars he's a baby now he's obviously very big >> I didn't make that >> then also in whatever whatever is going

on in this gladiator ring um those are the aliens from the ch the famous Chewbacca and R2-D2

>> chess game on the Millennium Falcon the holographic chess game so uh they don't have names but when you see Those those are some of those characters. You were

correct. Marty Scorsesei as Hugo.

>> Yeah. The guy with the >> scared of the huts.

>> And then there's a character named Zeb Z who is part of the Rebels crew. And

Rebels is a really great Clone Wars and they've he appeared >> in The Mandalorian season 3, but now he is >> Yeah, he's a very cool character. I

think this film is gonna be good and it's gonna just be a romp like a side quest kind of thing and it's gonna introduce some of these characters and then Ashoka is coming back. So, I kind

of like the whole direction they're going here which is let's just have a fun side quest kind of movie. I don't

think this is going to advance Grou as a Jedi. It's not going to be Luke

Jedi. It's not going to be Luke Skywalkers Academy. But I will make a

Skywalkers Academy. But I will make a prediction here.

>> Oh, okay. They're going to retcon.

They're going to reccon. Now that

Kathleen Kennedy's gone, they're going to reccon the sequels. The sequels were terrible. Force Awakens, the whole

terrible. Force Awakens, the whole group. They didn't have a plan. And it

group. They didn't have a plan. And it

shows what it should have been was Princess Leia and Luke. Luke training

Princess Leia to be a Jedi. And then

they rebuild the academy. And they have all these students including Grou and Han Solo, Han Solo's son. And then the

the person who's supposed to be uh the um the foil in that film is Darth Maul who comes back with robotic legs and he's running the syndicate. So they

screwed the whole thing up.

>> I think they wreck on it. I've been

predicting this for years and they just give us three more. And to your point, they recast the characters. That would

be Chef's Kiss. Recast it. They do have Daisy Ridley doing a Ray movie, so they're not planning on totally eliminating. I think you're right that

eliminating. I think you're right that they will shift focus away from the the sequels, but I do I don't think they're going to completely recognate

universes.

>> Why can't take that approach? DC's doing

it. Marvel's doing it. Anyway, this has been incredible. I want to give one

been incredible. I want to give one other shout out for a hardware product.

>> Do it. Um, I've really been enjoying there's a company called Nothing and we can pull this up on the screen. The

Nothing 3 earpieces, which I'm wearing right now, come in this very cool case and um the case has an incredible speaker on it and you press this button

uh to speak like it's a walkie-talkie.

Nothing, three earpieces. And what's

really interesting about these is they have an iconic look, very industrial, very like Terminator. They make an Android phone, which you know, maybe I'll get at some point, but they come in

the square case and uh they sound amazing and the case comes with a button. If you

press it, you can use it like a walkie-talkie and put it right to your mouth, which is surprisingly good, Lon.

And if you hold it down, you can talk to it.

>> I had the ear twos. I gave them to the wife. She loves them. I've never seen

wife. She loves them. I've never seen her love AirPods like this. And then I love the threes. really interesting

company. Nothing I'm very fascinated by this company that is they also make it over the ear headphones. Yeah,

>> which I'm thinking of buying. If you

pull up the open the ear f headphones for a second because you know I'm a bit of an audio file. You don't you can just um hit the menu bar there but okay >> yeah that's probably right there. So

um audio there it is. Uh the headphones.

Yeah, that one. Yeah.

So, these headphones they made, I mentioned KF speakers earlier, which is a really high-end speaker company. They

made these very industrial looking overthe-ear headphones uh that the kids love. Again, you see this like

love. Again, you see this like Terminator see-through aesthetic, very cyber punk >> and square. These are done by KF. So,

they partnered with KF. What do these go for here? Uh oh. 299.

for here? Uh oh. 299.

>> Don't like any headphones that use Bluetooth, so I probably wouldn't get these. You want to get the ones that are

these. You want to get the ones that are the bathies from Focal. Uh, give my friend Andrew a shout out. So, these are ones I've given away many times. They're

$599. They have a DACK, a digital audio conversion built into the headphones.

So, you plug in the USBC and it will give you the high-res files into these headphones over the USBC cable. Never

play over Bluetooth. Always wire your headphones directly from your phone to get the high quality sound to them. Just

like I talked about the KF speaker does that and these headphones do it. These

are the entry drug.

>> This is like cannabis, >> right?

>> You know, or beer.

>> And then you get to hard liquor. These

are the ones I have at my desk. Focal

utopias are five grand. These are the greatest of all time. These plug in by like really serious cables and uh the Focal company sent me a pair. Thank you

to them. These are the greatest ever.

But those 6.99 ones or 5.99 batis, if you get those, they're about 90% of what? 85% of the focal bathies. So on a

what? 85% of the focal bathies. So on a dollar for dollar basis, more than enough. You listen to Dark Side of the

enough. You listen to Dark Side of the Moon, Dire Straits. Yes. Um, you know, uh, any real musicians, uh, Radio Head

might fall into this. You will hear music like you've never heard. That's

the show. We'll see everybody on Monday for Twist. Bye-bye.

for Twist. Bye-bye.

>> Bye.