Why China wants Taiwan

Does China think that Trump is an opportunity not just in this trade war but also for Taiwan because I guess if you're talking about a big beautiful deal the big fear of some people certainly in Taiwan but some China hawks

in Washington is that the biggest deal of all would be for China to expect Donald Trump to trade something on Taiwan you know to sell Taiwan for soybeans is the kind of the the

caricature does China have that at the back of its mind >> at least I don't think so and I don't think a lot of my colleagues in Beijing

view this in that regard. To be honest, Taiwan is not a is not a a mug on the table. You cannot sell it. You cannot

table. You cannot sell it. You cannot

buy it. If we can buy it, we we we bought it already. You cannot buy Taiwan. There are 23 million people

Taiwan. There are 23 million people living on the island. And uh look at Hong Kong. We uni we we we reunified

Hong Kong. We uni we we we reunified with Hong Kong for 28 years already.

Well, you already had sovereignty over I mean Hong Kong was, you know, on a lease, right? Taiwan is Taiwan is does

lease, right? Taiwan is Taiwan is does not has never belonged to the People's Republic of China. So, you'd have to take it.

>> No, no, our position Taiwan is part of China. Uh, it's part of the part of

China. Uh, it's part of the part of China. You can say PRC or China, but

China. You can say PRC or China, but it's part of China. So, for us, it's the same thing. What I want to say is uh the

same thing. What I want to say is uh the the experience in Hong Kong tells us that the the the reunification of the you know at the at a superficial level

it's it's it's not enough you know reunification need a unification of society of the uh identity you know until majority people believe they are

Chinese you won't say I unify the country completely so uh we cannot buy And uh >> so what does that mean? So we had a uh we had a a Chinese ambassador recently

in France who when he was talking about this need to reunify the the souls and the minds the hearts and minds of the Taiwanese said of course we will need a massive re-education campaign. You have

scholars who I've interviewed in Beijing who write about the lessons of Hong Kong like Tien Failong uh the legal scholar you know he will say what we need to do is learn the lesson that a country a

territory like Hong Kong that was too westernized and too infected by liberal western ideas needs a massive campaign of patriotic re-education and that was

exactly what we will need to do in Taiwan. In Hong Kong, we've seen sham

Taiwan. In Hong Kong, we've seen sham elections with candidates vetted by the Communist Party who had to swear a loyalty oath to the Communist Party. Uh

we've seen the crushing of the free press. Uh the the sentencing of Jimmy

press. Uh the the sentencing of Jimmy Lee, the the media boss. If that is a model that China is learning from, what's the message to people on Taiwan who might be watching this? What is what

is coming for them? I I definitely agree that we need to win the hearts and minds of people in no matter in Hong Kong or in in Taiwan. But I think the approach

could be very different. the you know these two cases though we believe the both cases are you know both uh place are belong to China but uh as you said

you know the process is different in in in uh in Hong Kong case we you know signed a treaty with with the US joint with the UK then we take it back but uh

so we you reunified in the form first and then you you face the you know task how to win the hearts and minds so we gradually uh realize that this this is very

difficult actually. Uh

difficult actually. Uh >> but do we need to would you need to have patriots governing Taiwan? That's the

phrase we hear in Hong Kong. We know

what that is code for. Patriots

governing Hong Kong means if you want to hold any public office at all, you have to swear a formal legal oath of total loyalty to the government of Hong Kong and to the Communist Party leadership in

Beijing. There are millions of Taiwanese

Beijing. There are millions of Taiwanese who right now do not want to swear an an oath of loyalty to the Communist Party in Beijing. They vote for parties in

in Beijing. They vote for parties in free democratic elections that are absolutely opposed to rule from Beijing.

So what happens to them under mainland Chinese rule?

>> Uh we are in China we are study many people are study the uh the the Taiwan version of the one country two systems. So that means Taiwan has their own version of one country two systems. It's

different. It will be different from

different. It will be different from Hong Kong's but I don't think we already have one you know official version of the Taiwan version of Tai uh you know one China two system version for for

Taiwan. We don't have that. So I think I

Taiwan. We don't have that. So I think I hope that in the future we can discuss with people in Taiwan about how to achieve that goal. So I don't think we

should literally just copy what we are doing in Hong Kong to to to Taiwan because Taiwan is still not reunified.

But it's a it's a place, you know, I've covered elections in Taiwan. It's a real democracy. It's a noisy, rockous

democracy. It's a noisy, rockous democracy, but it's a real democracy.

You have parties that violently disagree. You can choose which one you

disagree. You can choose which one you go. Power changes from one party to

go. Power changes from one party to another.

>> It's very hard to imagine how China could ever let that happen again if it took over.

>> You know, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, no one I think majority people will say, you know, even in Taiwan, I think majority people believe that the two sides were reunified. I mean 40 years ago,

>> but you have to put democracy that cork is back in the bottle. That's not

something >> I'm not saying I'm not saying this is in incompatible with democracy or with election. What I want to say is now from

election. What I want to say is now from current perspective you you be you may believe that it's quite impossible. But

who knows what will happen after 40 years. We don't know. I mean the the

years. We don't know. I mean the the call here is do you believe do you agree you are Chinese uh you are Chinese citizen and uh I don't know the form of

reification with Taiwan in the future but if it's a unified country you need to be loyal to the to the government to the system right and and if that's a 30 40year project potentially that you know

China is patient wants to wait will there be some voices who as Donald Trump finishes this presidential term will some in Beijing say well That was a wasted opportunity. We had an American

wasted opportunity. We had an American president who does not seem to care much about allies, who tells us he doesn't care about other countries being democratic. And so all of the usual

democratic. And so all of the usual problems we have that America cares about Taiwan as a democratic ally under Trump, they're not really a serious

consideration. So leaving aside the 30

consideration. So leaving aside the 30 40 year patience will there be some people in Beijing going Trump is a window of opportunity and if he leaves office and we have not achieved some

sort of closer strangle hold on Taiwan with Donald Trump in the White House we will feel we have completely wasted an opportunity. I think there will always

opportunity. I think there will always be be different views in Beijing in China about this you know how do you view this opport window of opportunity how do you view the you know the Taiwan

issue but I don't see I don't I haven't seen any you know mainstream view uh you know in in China in Beijing say ah this is a window opportunity we must take it

we must take some military actions we use it to reunify the the two sides I I don't think that's a mainstream view uh using military means is will never be a

will will always be a very difficult choice for anyone. So uh I I haven't seen it but I I do think there is an opportunity for China and the US to to

work on Taiwan issue to I don't know what can we do specifically but I I don't think that's a deal that the US

gave Taiwan to China or vice versa. I I

think we might like uh you know try to for instance uh one of possibility for me is can the US clarif clarify their one China policy further uh can we can

we and US position is quite ambiguous on that >> and and you hear this that maybe you know so maybe it's not the moment to have a full-on war you China would clearly like to avoid a war for Taiwan but if you can get Donald Trump to say

some sort of change of language that basically induces kind of gloom and despair and and and a lack of confidence among kind of Taiwanese democrats who don't want to be ruled by China. That

that would be a win >> I think. Yeah, definitely. If so, that's in China's interest. We we encourage the US to clarify their position and we think the US role on Taiwan issue has

not been very constructively uh in past four decades. So, we hope they can

four decades. So, we hope they can clarify